1 BILIONÁRIO VS 30 TRABALHADORES | ft. Flávio Augusto

There shouldn't be a billionaire while someone is starving. There shouldn't be a billionaire while someone is running all day without a salary.

All my employees get more than I ask for my salary. Social inequality is not necessarily a problem.

When you say to me that inequality is not a problem, I tell you that it is, because I'm black, a mother of two, low income, I already got a salary of 1,700 reais and I am currently unemployed, just braiding my hair. Do you have a sense of the difference?

I have.

What is it? Hearing this phrase and the pain, the weight that this word has, the weight that this phrase you used now has.

I have many facilities, but not necessarily I was happier. In fact, the psychological clinics are full of rich people taking antidepressants. And why aren't the other people who come to courses like this rich? It's a matter of performance. So 300 people are competent and 150 million Brazilians aren't? Eventually, I'll tell you that...

You heard it.

No.

Eventually... We are incompetent or lazy. Can I finish? Please, please. You are 29 years old, I am 53 I think. I would trade 100% of my wealth for your age.

My name is Flávio Augusto, I am a Brazilian businessman, considered a billionaire, and today I will debate with 30 workers.

Social inequality is not necessarily a problem. Oh, cutie! You're going to break the man's iPhone! Well, social inequality is not a problem, right? So it can't be a problem. I think we live in one of the most unequal countries in the world. One of the most unequal based on colonization, which was a totally unequal process, invasion, usurpation of power. So it's that thing of the nine generations you said. People have been trying to change for 500 years, to turn and follow this dream of social equality,

this dream of being able to being a millionaire, etc. But the truth is that people like you say that people will succeed. And they end up structuring, making this structure that you dream of being rich, it is based on stronger structures. Because, as you say, I was a teacher, I took a bus and I got rich. You can also get rich.

But Brazil is a very unequal country. People have disorganized families, the structure of public schools is terrible, the structure of private schools is terrible too, it's like a money-hunter. You teach in a public school?

One or two?

Just one. It's a full-timehunting... You teach at a public school? Yes. Just one? Or two? Just one. Just one. It's a full-time school.

Full-time? I see.

Where?

Itacoaquecetuba. Villersilie, Algarve.

Very well.

Look. Look what I'm going to tell you. Do you know which country is considered one of the least unequal in the world? Switzerland? No. Which one? India. India?

Why?

Statistically, by the numbers, it's one of the countries with the least inequality.

But it's the one with the most people, the most exploited.

No, but...

It's a country that had a heavy colonization process and has an absurd poverty. It's what makes people still starve.

Exactly. But you have a lower inequality rate. Switzerland, for example, is a country with a higher inequality rate than India.

Because there are a lot of billionaires?

Because you have a higher disparity. The point is, where do you have better quality of life? In Switzerland or in India? We know it's in India. What I want to say to you here, pay close attention to what I'm going to say. The point I want to tell you, pay attention to what I'm going to say, the point I want to hammer with you here is not that I'm happy with people having an unfavorable situation,

in any way, but the biggest problem is poverty.

It's poverty. How will poverty be solved? How will poverty end? I was fired, Amanda. I was fired, sorry. Thanks.

You talked too much, you bothered me. Oh, I talked too much, Of course! I talked a lot?

Thank you, guys.

Miriam! Welcome, Miriam.

Of course, I'm not an intellectual. But I was born and raised in the community. Me neither. Where? In Taipas, in the north zone of São Paulo. And there, reality is one.

Those who can more, cries less. And you said that social inequality is not a problem. And I say... Poverty is the problem. Yes, poverty is the problem. And we are here today talking to you not only to introduce you to our side, but also to understand your point of view.

I'm a mother of two children.

How old?

One is four years old and the other is one year and five months old. I can't afford to pay for private school, and it's not because I don't want to. I'm a trans woman, I'm a cleaning lady, I'm a teacher in child education. I didn't get a place, I took a test, I went to the city hall,

I didn't have the space to speak, to act in my scene. And I have some children who need me. So, the teacher had to leave the certificate there, to do the hair, to braid the hair, because that's the reality around us.

Is your son's father present?

He is present, but I'm married. And currently he works from Sunday to Sunday.

What does he do?

He's a water delivery man, he works at iFood, he works at a pharmacy on Sundays, his day is hard, it's Monday to Saturday, and on Sundays he works from 8 to 5 in the afternoon. We've already tried investment, we've already fallen into several coups, we look for ways, I'm talking about reality.

I'm not going to present numbers because I can't, I can only talk about myself. I, Miriam, at 29 years old, mother of two children, who lives in the north zone of São Paulo, who went to college and still do, I graduated in Pedagogy, I took a Transition Studies course, I graduated because I learned that if you start and don't finish, you don't achieve.

But I started and finished, I didn't achieve.

So, are you sure that inequality is not a problem?

Let's go. One thing is inequality, another is poverty. Eventually, you will have people who are unequal for many reasons. There is a inequality that I think is very bad, which is caused by the state. You mentioned some of them here, for example.

Public schools are bad. Our colleague Amanda, who just came here, is a teacher. So, for example, how can a kid from the slums, a kid from the outskirts like me, like you, studying in a public school, be able to compete

with someone who studied in the best schools in São Paulo? There's no way to compete.

I'm asking you.

Look, you can't compete. And I'm telling you, meritocracy preached this way is a fallacy.

It's absurd.

Just to conclude, Miriam. There is another inequality, which is organic. It's natural. For example, you are in college, you did college, pedagogy, super dedicated, you took the course of a transvestite,

I was a low-income person. I was a low-income person, too. I understand perfectly what you're saying. I studied in a public school. I understand what you're saying. Now, what I would like to say to you, who is looking for a job, don't give up. You will get it.

Don't give up on your project. Don't give up on giving your children a better life. Are there two boys? Two boys, Álvaro and Kenai. Álvaro and Kenai. Do you think Álvaro and Kenai deserve your dedication? They do.

That's why I post a video every day.

But I'm going to tell you something, Miriam. This is being recorded and watched by millions of people. Don't give up. If every day, many people try and can't do it, she can't exist. Don't expect the state to solve your life.

No, I don't think so.

But I believe that this taxation will have more impact.

I already said that I agree with the taxation.

Yes, and you're talking about democracy. We're talking about everything here. We're also talking about many differences. But it will take away some of this difference, Flávio. Talking about women to men, I'll be very serious with you. It will decrease that difference, that gap between my situation and yours.

It will decrease a little bit that gap, that bridge for us to cross. Mirian, let's go.

We can cross the same bridge.

I think this, my dear. Those who earn more money can pay more taxes, no problem. Now, what I want to say to you is that if you keep persevering, you're 29 years old. I would trade... I'm 53.

53 years old.

It doesn't look like it.

Thank you.

You're 29 years old. I'm 53, I think. I would trade 100% of my assets for your age. I would take everything I have, which is a lot, and trade it.

Don't be jealous, please.

I would trade it for your age. I would like to be 29. You know why? With the knowledge I have, with what I've learned throughout my life, everything I've learned in my work, in my business,

I would do it all over again. I would still have the youth you have. You have something I don't have anymore. I don't have your youth anymore. Do you understand? I would give my billions for your 29 years.

Unfortunately, that's not possible. Now, one thing is possible, Miriam. One thing is possible, Miriam. It's possible for you to learn some tools and, with the knowledge you have, improve your life. I don't know if you'll be a millionaire, but you'll improve your life.

Do you live in the community?

I do, currently. I tend to the house and, many times, to my house, to save a little and meet the needs.

My grandmother was a laundry woman. She raised my mother and my two uncles washing clothes. She was abandoned by her husband. She was abandoned by her husband, she raised my father, my mother and my two uncles washing clothes. So I understand your reality perfectly.

I also participate in social projects in communities to help people like you. I would love to... This is recorded. If you agree, I'll help you get out of here.

I'll agree. So I'll agree.

Do you agree?

Of course.

It's recorded.

I just want to hear it, Flávio. You're in? Of course. It's recorded. I just want to hear Flávio.

You're in?

Then Flávio, we'll talk later in private. Joking aside, thank you very much.

Thank you, my dear. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Give her a round of applause. The presenter. What's up?

You're the...

Roney.

My name is Rony, I am a history, sociology and geography teacher. I am here today because I think this topic is very important for people to know different points of view and to be able to draw their own conclusions. Rony, let's remember that the topic is equality versus poverty. Inequality versus poverty. In versus poverty is not a problem.

Let me give you a number, since I like numbers. I didn't mention numbers about Miriam, but I'll give you a number to think about. In the early 19th century, we had about 80 to 90% of the world population living in extreme poverty.

Today, at this moment, about 9% of the world population lives in extreme poverty. Today, at this moment, about 9% of the world's population lives in extreme poverty. This means that, from the 20th century until today, things have improved a lot. The average per capita income in the world was 2,000 dollars.

Today it's 14,000 dollars. I'll give you the number... Just so we can put the disparity between inequality and poverty. I'll give you the number of Brazil. At the end of the 19th century, I won't give you the exact number,

because we have a lot of data in the case of Brazil. More than 80% of the Brazilian population was illiterate. Why am I talking about illiteracy and poverty? Because in Brazil we have a very serious problem of education. And this problem is related to...

I can link this to the question... I can link this to the question of millionaires. In Brazil, yes. Why? Because we have a class... I'm not talking about you, because we are representing a class, the working class. There is a class of millionaires in Brazil

that make a lot of effort so that the less favored people remain ignorant. I don't believe in that. I believe and I'll tell you how. You know how? Through the negotiations...

I think the politicians do that. But I'm talking about the political class.

Oh, ok.

But the political class... How many millionaires are in the National Congress?

There are several.

There are several? There's the vast majority.

I don't know if it's the vast majority, but there are several.

Of millionaires. These millionaires make a maximum effort to make sure that public policies don't reach a less favored population, because the people who are hungry don't get any work.

The people who think, yes, they get work. Let me make a counterpoint because of time. For a true businessman, I'll say there are two types of businessmen. The state's tit-for-tat. It's what settles with politicians, with the state's tit-sucking man. Yes. He's the one who settles there with the politicians, with the state,

makes his schemes, diverts money, steals, you know? Votes on laws that are favorable to him. This is a type of businessman. For me, I don't respect this type of businessman.

Good.

I call him a tit-sucking man. And there's another type of businessman, who is a businessman who produces, works, invests, puts his money in, works a lot, is the guy who hires one person, then two, then a thousand, he creates jobs, he creates income. Just so you have an idea, 70% of formal jobs in Brazil are created by micro and small businessmen.

Yes, I know that. They are micro and small businessmen. So, just to conclude, this businessman who is a businessman, who is a businessman, he wants the population to have a higher income, my friend. Because the more... Let me just...

Otherwise I won't be able to...

Just to conclude. I'll give you one more time. The higher the income, the better for the businessman. He'll sell more of his product. He'll sell more of his services.

Do you understand?

So, what happens? The big... You got it? So, what happens is that the big part of the businessmen I'm talking about are not the micro-businessmen.

And they're not businessmen like you. Are you talking about a tit-sucking man? I'm talking about businessmen who do a lobby in Brasília. I don't respect that. Yes, but we're talking about the millionaires in Brazil. No, but I don't respect these guys. The millionaires in Brazil, they are in Brasília, lobbying for the poor to remain ignorant.

Most of the problems are in Brasília, my friend, you can be sure of that. The world is a much better place with billionaires.

Hi!

How are you?

I went to English teacher and set up a franchise. I couldn't get to the billionaire. I failed as a billionaire. Because 25 teachers earned much less in the wage gap and I couldn't sleep.

How can you do that?

But my teachers... Are you talking about my teachers? My teachers earn more than the wage gap. All of them, without exception, earn more than the wage gap. But did you pay less than the wage gap?

No, it's normal. But do you think it's possible to be underpaid if it's not like that? With CLTs and the salary? Of course.

Of course, for sure. Every businessman, when he creates his business, if he doesn't have an attractive remuneration, especially for the people he wants to attract, he will lose his main talents. So, one of the ways to attract the best talents is to pay the best.

Now, it's obvious, I'm not here to speak on behalf of Brazilian businessmen. I speak here by my practice. All my employees get more than I ask for my salary.

So the world with more millionaires won't need much more people earning four digits?

The number with more billionaires?

To have more billionaires.

I imagine you're asking me this question assuming that wealth is a finite resource. Is that what you think? If there are people earning a lot, will you necessarily have people earning less? Is that your logic?

You can only be a billionaire by winning the Mega Sena,

by getting married or by being born, or above CLT. Let's go. Winning at Megacena, you can't be a billionaire. No Megacena award pays a billion reais. What was the other one you said?

Getting married or being born.

Getting married is possible. If you marry a billionaire, you automatically become a billionaire. But I started... This is not a truth, because I started from scratch. I'm a person from the outskirts. I'm a person...

Can you speak, please?

Your colleagues fired you. What's up?

What's up, Flávio? How are you? I'm... I'm Juliano Reverso. I'm a radio host, clown and comedian. And I came here to see if he can sleep well

No. Of course not. You'd feel bad, while many people who want to eat brigadeiro won't be able to. What's the solution, in your opinion? The solution, I think, is to distribute the wealth. How would that distribution be? I think it would be with the state. Yes, but how should the state distribute it? I think it should be taxed on big fortunes.

Do you think that taxing big fortunes would end poverty in Brazil? I don't think it would, but I think it would greatly reduce the social abyss between a very rich person and a poor person. The president of the Workers' Party, Glaise Hoffmann, presented a project for tax taxation of large fortunes. In this project,

the forecast is that 20 billion reais will be generated per year in revenues from the taxation of large fortunes. 20 billion reais is equivalent to the state's tax collection in just two days. So, do you believe that taxing the big fortunes would solve the problem.

And note that I'm not against the taxing of the richest. I'm not against it. In fact, I'm even in favor of it. I just want to show you a number. Sometimes the expectation that a person creates is that this will solve the problem.

It's 20 billion reais, which is only two days of taxation.

I don't think it solves the problem, but I don't think there's a golden bullet. I think all the movements to reduce inequality in the country are commendable.

I contribute to my... Do you think it would be fairer?

I believe so.

I think it's fair for a richer person to pay more taxes. I don't think it's fair. Just like I think it's fair for a richer person to pay more taxes. I don't think it's fair. Just like I think it's fair for someone who's vulnerable to have a negative tax. The family stock, for example, is a negative tax. The person receives money from the state.

But the point is how we solve it.

That's the point.

How do we solve the problem of poverty? That's the point.

My question to you is, how can billionaires do that?

It's not the role of a billionaire. A billionaire is an entrepreneur. An entrepreneur develops his products, his companies, so that they create the social function of generating profit. The main social function of a company is profit.

It's through profit that investment comes, through profit that you hire more people profit that you hire more people, that you generate more jobs, that you make investments and improve society. So, that's the role of an entrepreneur. Can you pause it, please?

Thank you.

Sorry.

She had water in her hand. That's why.

Are you ok?

Do I remember your name? Gabi.

Hi, Gabi. I believe that billionaires should not exist. Because I think it's immoral in such an unequal society we live in. Maybe if we were in a utopian society, where we didn't have social inequality, people starving, basic sanitation,

maybe it could be a matter of having billionaires. I'm not against people being rich, I'm not against people enjoying luxury and fancy tables. It's all right, people work for it, it's all right. The question is, in a world that we have,

that is so unequal, do you really think that everything is fine to have billions concentrated?

Let's go. You said that everything is fine for a person to be rich.

Yes.

What is the limit?

I...

How many millions? Let's talk about numbers. I don't know. What is the number you think is fine?

I think that, for me...

Yes, but it's not always right. But let's try, just for us in our conversation, to pretend that no one is watching us. How many millions do you think...

If we made, for example, the roof of the billion, like, we can't pass through this roof. Imagine how much money, instead of the taxation...

No, it's okay. But what do you think is moral? You said you think the billionaire is immoral. What is moral for you?

Moral is not having people starving.

But I understand. I'm part of many social projects. I think there are still people starving. It's a shame, in the middle of 2025. I agree with you. But I'm asking you to reflect with me

what would be moral in your view. How many millions of reais would be moral? And, from that, how many millions would be immoral?

I think that if we hit 1 billion, it would be immoral for us... Because I would think, as a non-economist, because I'm not an economist... There are approximately 300 billionaires in Brazil, right? It's something like that.

Brazilian billionaires.

Yes, Brazilians. I don't know if it's exactly this number.

It's something like that.

If these people didn't accumulate more than 1 billion, if this money was all reverted to the government, we could have much more public and social policies.

Great. I'll talk about money reverted to the government. Before people deny you, I want to say that this is a great subject.

Immoral. We went to a small house, where nobody can spend it, not even in the greatest insanity of life, at the height of madness.

There are billionaires who break too.

But it's because they didn't know how to manage it. I believe that's not your case as an entrepreneur.

No, it's not my case. But you know how to do it. You have infinite money. No, it's not infinite. It's a machine of infinite money for those who know how to do it. And those who know how to do it, do much more. That's the point. I'd like to talk about morality.

Who decides what is and isn't moral? What is the number? How do we define it? That's the first point. The second one is hard to know. There's no way we can have someone arguing, this is immoral, this is mine. You can say, 10 million is okay, 11 million is immoral, but maybe someone else thinks 10 million is immoral,

which is a lot of money. So, we'll have the state arguing about our lives. Just to finish, I'm sorry, the question of the state. Is the government capable of promoting social justice?

We have many flaws in our system.

Think about it. If we took 100% of the world's billionaires' assets, I mean, Brazilians, all Brazilian billionaires, would it take five months to collect the government's money?

No, it's a different account. If we took all the Brazilian billionaires' assets, we can make an account of... ending poverty annually. It has a value annually, but there's this machine of infinite money.

It doesn't end, and money isn't infinite. That's what I want to say. The Brazilian government collects, in five months, 100% of the billionaire's assets. And the Brazilian collection is increasing, breaking records every year.

But what we see in Brazil, unfortunately, is not the solution. We see a series of problems that happen within the state, within Brazil.

But what is your solution as a billionaire?

The solution to end poverty? I have one. I can give you. The solution is the reduction of public spending. With the reduction of public spending, we lower the interest rate. Lowering the interest rate, we have much more incentive in the economy for companies to hire more people, invest more people, raise salaries, raise jobs,

and Brazil as a whole enriches itself by raising salaries.

But don't you think that, for example, we're talking about a somewhat utopian scenario?

No, this is not utopian. Utopian is the opposite.

It's a pyramid that will never work. Because, like, these people generate jobs and all that... The job is always a value. I believe that in your companies, no one is a millionaire, like you.

No, of course not.

And I believe that if there's a millionaire there,

it's a manager, someone...

There are some millionaires, yeah.

Anyway, from some... Some who started from scratch and now they're millionaires. But I don't think anyone who does faxing in schools is a millionaire. No, there's no way. That's what I'm talking about. It's about value discrepancy.

No one should accumulate so much money. But in your opinion, should a faxer be a millionaire?

I think she should at least have the minimum to survive. I agree with you. So, to be able to study, to not be a cleaner, if she doesn't want to... What is this minimum? The minimum? I don't know how many of us are in Brazil...

Please, I need 17 people.

Sorry.

The problem is the glass. My name is Paulo Henrique, I'm a history teacher and political economy master. I came here to discuss the importance of taxing billionaires so that we can build a just and prosperous Brazil. Tell me your name, dear.

Paulo Henrique, how are you, Flávio?

Let's go, Paulo.

Flávio, you asked what immorality was. I'm going to give you several data here in Brazil that are immoral. Brazil has 860 billion in annual tax returns from large companies that don't pay taxes.

I agree. And that this amount would be enough for several social programs. It would help a lot. It's the amount of four family banks, three health programs, and a popular pharmacy.

So, this is immoral.

I agree. The second immoral aspect. In Brazil, the tax on inheritance is 8% at most. While in countries, including the United States, charge 40% of their inheritance.

So there are many distortions in the Brazilian tax system. Excuse me for interrupting you. I'd like you to continue, but I'd like to get to this point, even though I'm looking at the time. Do you know how much the Brazilian needs to pay for the tax on fortunes, which is 8%,

from what amount?

I don't know, but first of all, the tax...

I'll tell you. It's R$250,000.

I see.

This guy who has R$250,000 to transfer his inheritance to his son has to pay 8%. I ask you, is this guy a billionaire?

He's not a billionaire, but look...

No, I'll... Just a quick one. I'll just complete a complete number, if you allow me.

Can I?

Yes. So, let's go. 250,000. You mentioned the United States. Do you know how much is the tax on the future income in the US?

I know about inheritance.

About inheritance, sorry. Do you know how much it is? Yes, it's up to 40%. with a 3.5 million dollar exemption. You missed that part. I'll tell you, it's 40%. 40% is bigger than 8%. Much bigger. So the US must charge more taxes than Brazil.

About inheritance, yes.

No.

Because it's above 5 million dollars.

Yes.

In other words, only inheritance above 5 million dollars is taxed. And that's if the person doesn't have a structure... It's not the billionaires who pay, either. No, it's the billionaires. 5 million dollars.

5 million dollars. It's not the billionaires.

No, it's not the billionaires. But the billionaires also pay. What I mean is that, on average, when you make this difference, today, the tax collection on inheritance in the US is approximately 0.18%, while in Brazil it's 0.16%. So it's practically the same. But some countries pay more. France pays more.

But if you look at the exemption range, the problem with Brazil, you know what it is? It's that the exemption range is too low. It hasn't been adjusted. For example, the income tax. Do you pay the 27.5% rate?

I don't.

Are you below that rate?

I am.

Okay.

You're below that rate. But if you were to earn...

Now, do you agree that it's fair that workers who earn up to 5,000 reais are exempt from the income tax?

I think it's fair. You think that those who earn more than 50,000 should pay more.

So you agree with the proposal that the president of PT gave to the Chamber.

But I don't disagree.

I don't disagree that those who earn more should pay more. And I don't disagree either. Because if you analyze the exemption in the past, if I'm not mistaken, it was R$ 1,800. But it was R$ 1,800 30 years ago. With lower wages. But inflation took over the purchasing power of the population.

Now I ask you, why didn't this exemption range be adjusted? The middle class and the poor are paying more taxes. Actually, the proposal is to pay less taxes. I know, but do you know why they pay? Do you know why they pay? Do you know why they pay? Several governments have come in and they never changed that because they need to finance the state.

I know, but look...

So, what's being proposed...

Time's up, guys.

Thank you.

For the first time...

Well done, guys!

...for the first time ever...

...for the first time ever...

Money doesn't bring happiness. Go!

...happiness... Let's go! I'm here. The knights are in front. How are you, Mr. Duda?

Are you ok?

I'm great. I think that money, in some ways, brings a lot of happiness,

because it will bring stability to your family.

So you disagree with me?

Yes. Because what happens? In some ways, if you are in a situation, like many people are, when they are unemployed, your family is not doing well, you're not doing well emotionally, and so on. So it was a topic that I studied about other things and it kind of moved me because I worked 11 years in a company, I wore the shirt, I work on vacation, it's my children's birthday, and I'm third-party, and the guy has a high level,

so what happens? From the moment I managed a lot of time from home for him time. He gave me two months off and gave me a fair cause. I'm still in the court.

So I'm working with the action.

Fair cause? Why?

Fair cause is wrong. He didn't claim it, but what happens? He invented something, he paid a judge. You'll be reintegrated, you'll get everything. No, but the first hearing, he paid a corrupt judge and went to the second story, you won. So, from that moment, my life turned upside down.

Because what happens is that things started to go wrong in my house.

I got emotional, sorry, guys.

It's ok.

Because then you think, until a moment I was stable, with a nice salary, taking my kids for a walk, taking my family. And automatically, this billionaire, with this bullshit...

Is he a billionaire?

Yes, he has money, a lot of money. He's not a billionaire. Near me, he's a billionaire, but he has several companies. Then, automatically, he started to drag me. I'm paying that poison, depending on the justice, which is slow, laborious, and it's very unfair.

With public defender, you know?

Yes.

So, I hired a lawyer few months, but I've been doing it for 11 years. So money brings happiness, but why? Because I had the world in my hands. My son could get sick and I could take him to a meeting. As many don't have. If you don't have money, you're practically forgotten.

You're nothing, you have no value. So men lately... Not men, but men in general.

It's only worth what you have.

Can I have your name, please?

Rafael.

Rafael, here's the thing. First of all, I'm very sorry about this situation. It impacts your family, it impacts your... Your condition. Your structure. I saw that you were emotionally shaken

because this was very recent. Yes. But get ready, this will take 5 or 6 years.

Yes.

It's the time it will take. But here's the thing, you will be reintegrated, you will receive everything retroactive, this is a millionaire thing.

Yes.

Maybe you'll be a millionaire in this action.

Yes, amen.

Yes, you got it?

Yes.

Because if you play tricks, I'll tell you, I have nothing to complain about the labor justice. I have thousands of employees, I've been an entrepreneur for 30 years, and most of the time, there are few times when it's unfair. I've never suffered injustice by the labor justice. I've been through this. So, first you have to set your expectations,

it's a 6-7 year battle, 5-6 years.

Yes.

And it will take this time, but in my opinion, from what you said here, I think you will win. What you have to do is to recompose yourself emotionally now and start your life again.

That's what I'm doing. I'm running after it. Now, I'm a musician on weekends, right? What do you play? I play cavaquinho, banjo, guitar, I sing too, I compose, you know?

So I'm looking for many doors, what's helping me.

But in corporate life, what do you do?

Yes, corporate life was security. I worked in several areas. So what happens?

Does money bring happiness? So, about this topic, what I wanted to tell you this, the lack of money, the debt, it brings you a lot of problems. A lot of causes of separation come from money. But the point of money, it must be unexpected to see a billionaire saying that money doesn't bring happiness. Because I'm happy, man. I feel like a happy guy.

But I was already happy before I had money. I had a wonderful grandmother, who left us in 2021. I was raised by her. You were. Yes, you know?

I mean, I had a love-based upbringing. I had the privilege of having a well-structured family. So I've always been happy. I'm not happy anymore today. And I make the point of saying this because a lot of people run after money thinking it will bring them happiness.

Happiness is not in the money. Now, let's not be hypocrites. Yes.

Making money is good.

Wonderful.

It brings you structure, it brings you freedom, and it brings you, mainly, the condition to help your family.

Yes.

Do you have children? I have two. Two children, right? It's over, right?

Wonderful.

Thanks, boy? Yes. Wonderful. Thanks, boy.

Thanks.

Good luck. Thanks. It's mine, my love. Tell me, my dear.

Money brings happiness.

Money brings happiness when you have kids and you buy toys for them.

Money brings happiness when you have a sick relative in the hospital and you need surgery. I don't know if you have any other questions. I have a sick relative in the hospital and you need a quick surgery in a private hospital. We know that the SUIS is one of the systems that takes the longest. So, when you have money, in your case,

which is a millionaire, I believe, your children don't go through the SUIS.

No.

Because you have private doctors that the money pays, right? Money brings happiness to people who need a house, money brings happiness to those transvestites on the street who don't have a job and receive money from the program, that brings happiness to them at that moment, because money helps them in a way that otherwise wouldn't.

Let me put another point of view. All you said is ease, not happiness. Money brings ease. Being able to hire a doctor for my son when he needs it is ease. Being able to put him in a good school is ease. Being able to do all of this that you said, which I think is the goal of each person, is ease.

Not happiness. Happiness is what you have inside you when you put your head on the pillow. So I'm going to give you an example of what money buys and what money doesn't buy, for example. Does money buy a bed? Yes or no?

It does.

Does it buy sleep?

Yes.

No.

Does money buy a health plan?

It does.

Does it buy health?

No.

But it gives the possibility of increasing the life span.

I agree. So it buys. No, wait. Let's go.

You, in the ICU, do you pay your UCI bill? You don't pay your bill.

So, if money doesn't bring happiness, why do you bring a course that helps people become millionaires?

No, I don't sell this course. I don't have this course. But your course doesn't help people... No, no, no. I have an English course. That's right. It's not a course... I don't teach people to become millionaires. It's not my area of expertise.

No, no, no.

But money brings happiness. Money, in my view...

Money brings education, when you can afford a college. That's all about ease. Money brings a diploma.

It's not an ease.

Of course it is.

No, it's not.

For example, when you have a diploma, isn't it easier to get a job? It's an easy thing. Happiness, man, is that thing we feel, that doesn't depend on the money we have. I'll say this again, I'll say it in my little voice, I almost cried the other time I talked about it.

But that woman, she raised three children washing clothes and she was smiling. She died at 91 years old smiling. She is one of my greatest life examples. I tell you that this is happiness. It's what pulsates inside our hearts for a purpose.

When we have a purpose, when we know our mission and what we want to accomplish. That brings us happiness. Now, eventually, we will make money. And I say, I'm not a hypocrite, it's good to make money, it's worth dedicating yourself to make money.

And when you make money, when you get rich, suddenly you're not rich, you're not rich.

No, I'm not.

It's cool.

Look at my hair here. But how is rich hair? I don't know, but it's not like that. Is rich hair like that for you?

No.

So, that's cool. So if one day you get rich... How is the treatment I use? I'm sorry, my ignorance here.

I'm a drag queen.

It's him or her.

Him or her. Thank you. So, what happens? When you get rich, you know what will happen? You can have a wallet full of money or empty of money, and you'll have this yearning for the meaning of your existence. Happiness is there.

If money doesn't bring happiness, why do we work?

Thank you, guys.

You can go to the other side.

Thank you, my love.

Kisses.

Thank you, David.

Kisses.

Hi. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

I'm sorry.

I'm going to tell you something, going back to inequality, Amanda. I'm going to tell you something, going back to inequality, Amanda.

I'm going to tell you something, going back to inequality, Amanda.

I'm going to tell you something, going back to inequality, Amanda.

I'm going to tell you something, going back to inequality, Amanda.

I'm going to tell you something Show your art to millions of people.

No, I came here to talk about why money doesn't bring happiness, and I agree with you.

Agree with me.

Money really doesn't bring happiness, even remembering the talk of our friend there, if we go back to the time when Brazil was colonized, we would ask these questions, for example, to the indigenous people. And it wouldn't make sense to him. This question wouldn't bring happiness, because their experiences are different.

But what does it mean to be rich to an Indian? What does it mean to be rich to an Indian, for example?

I think that for them, having time, you know? Time is wealth for them.

Yes, time is wealth, you know?

So you agree that money doesn't bring happiness?

I agree. So we're in this together.

Yes, but I want to bring you my point too, right?

Because it's not just about saying this speech, right?

People, my dear poet has fired you. You didn't want to say your poem. What a shame. Oops, sorry. You are? I'm Carol. Carol are... I'm Carol. Carol.

Go ahead, Carol.

Well...

Money doesn't bring happiness.

That's my opinion. What do you think?

I disagree because financial happiness helps and impacts people a lot. People have purposes, but they get lost in the matter of capitalism, in so many psychological issues, in so many social inequalities.

Are you a capitalist?

No.

So, a capitalist is saying that money doesn't bring happiness

and you disagree. In the sense that when people don't have this cradle or these chances that many people have, they end up becoming unhappy.

What chances?

Going back to the social inequality, not everyone has the same opportunities. When they don't have the same opportunities, they end up going through situations that make them unhappy. When they get a project, a job, or some success in life,

and it brings them a financial return, at some point, yes, they feel financially happy.

So, for me, happiness is like that.

Let me give you an interesting point. In my opinion, you're confusing happiness with contentment. Happiness is one thing, contentment is another. Contentment is a punctual thing. I got a new job, I'm happy.

We even say, I'm happy. But, actually, this happy, semantically, is the meaning of contentment. I was happy. But in fact, this happy here, semantically, is the meaning of contentment. You were happy. Obviously, many little things that happen in our lives make us happy, but happiness is something that is on a higher level.

Above contentment.

I agree with you.

So, I think, for example, that it is possible that a peasant who works in the field is, often, much happier than a billionaire.

I agree with you on that point. But when we think about the society we live in, many other people depend on many other factors and many layers to be happy too. Because happiness is subjective for each one. What is happy for me is not for you.

So, if I see in the financial aspect that happiness brings me a return, it's great, but for the other it may not. So, it's subjective.

Carol, I'll suggest you this. I, in my personal experience, feel as happy today as I was when I was poor. So happy. I'm not more nor less. Now, obviously, today I have the opportunity to have many facilities in my life.

And situations that make me very happy that also contribute to my life.

Exactly.

But I'll tell you something. I'll hope you get rich one day. And you remember, Flavio, I'm as happy as I was.

But I'm already happy. But I mean, in terms of financial happiness.

But that's contentment. Because everyone has their own way of thinking. Many people end up being sad because of the lack of wealth, or because of this lack that they need. So they become unhappy for that reason.

They get upset.

Yes, but they are not happy.

Here happiness is in another... We are diverging in the definition of happiness.

Yes, because as I said, happiness is subjective, right?

All right.

Do you understand? I will hope that you get rich and say to me, Flavio, I am happy just like you.

But I'm already happy, Flavio. That's what I'm telling you. There's no way. Money doesn't bring happiness, it brings happiness. It completes happiness for some other people.

I suggest you make a lot of money, then come and tell me.

Amen.

Okay?

Success is an exact science that everyone can learn.

It's over. I lost.

My butt is thinner.

No, you lost.

Are you going to camp this one?

You lost.

Hi!

I remember your name.

Amanda.

Welcome. Let's talk about success.

Well, I'm an English teacher too.

Wow!

I pay 27% of taxes. And... Do you agree that every teacher should have a tax exemption?

That's the problem. Everyone is looking for their exemption. The businessman is looking for his exemption, the teacher is looking for his exemption. I honestly think that no one should have an exemption, neither the teacher nor the businessman.

It's true, it should be proportional.

But two things. The first thing that has to happen is that the exemption rate is very low. So, today, the middle class is low. Because there's this detail. What is the middle class today?

What is the middle class?

Exactly. What the IBGE says is the middle class, it says that up to 8,000 reais is the middle class. I, honestly, if you go see a family with two kids paying for their education... So, the middle class today... But this guy still pays 27.5% in the source.

It's unfair. The importance of the Great Wealth Taxation is not something they did in a project. It's constitutional. So, the constitution should be regulated and followed. The problem is that it's unequal.

There shouldn't be any billionaire while someone is starving. There shouldn't be a billionaire while someone is running all day without a salary. There are companies that even the owners are billionaires, that make coups to exploit the worker. So, while there's a billionaire,

it means that there's someone someone exploring the working class. And it can be like, I pay a good salary to my worker, he gives his blood for the company, but he earns 5 thousand reais per month. What a family nowadays, even with a great salary, which is considered a very good 5 thousand reais per month, can do with two children? Not even studying on WhatsApp can do it.

True, it can't. True, you can't. But let's try to get back to the theme that success is an exact science that everyone can learn. I think this is our theme for this second... Before I get into this theme, just to tell you, I'll repeat, money is not finite. The production of wealth is not finite.

Since people think it's finite, that's a mistake. They think that if someone earns a lot, someone will have to earn little. So there's no correlation between earning little and the reason that someone earns a lot.

But that's the main question. Success, everyone can achieve it. But there's the social inequality issue. Not everyone leaves the same parameter.

I, for example, left the bottom.

You left the bottom, you also did your English school, which made it grow, but you needed teachers to make it happen, you needed people to buy your course to make it happen, you needed people who believed in your course to make it happen, and you also needed foreign capital to come here and buy your school so you could become a billionaire. It was national capital. It was national? That's good, I thought you were a foreigner, come here and buy your school, so you can become a billionaire.

It was a national capital.

It was? That's good, I thought you were a foreigner. But, in that sense, success is not the same for everyone, because not everyone has a starting point, people don't have access to universities. I'm an English teacher at a public school, and when I got there, I believed that people wanted to study English, and that everyone would teach English to everyone. But the truth is that they don't even want to study. They are in the sense of saying,

Oh, I'm going to get rich. Because success is something imaginary. What is success?

I ask you, what is success for you?

Success is having time, eating well, not being hungry, seeing your family happy, being able to make a trip, visiting your relatives,

having a break to go to the gym, to eat your snack, go to a nice restaurant.

And all of this, what will you need to do it? You'll need money, right?

And time.

Money and time, right? Money and time. So, what I put here, that success is an exact science that everyone can learn, and get into a better situation. I'll explain how. Today, in Brazil, social mobility works like this.

A person, to get out of poverty, to the middle class, in Brazil, takes 9 generations. It's absurd, right?

It's absurd.

It takes 9 generations. I'm saying I left this place to the place I am now. In a single generation. In a generation, in a few years.

But wasn't that something out of the curve?

Of course it was.

Isn't that what everyone will be able to do?

No, but that's not what I'm talking about.

And it's not a matter of believing. It's not a talk of people saying, you believe, because if I can do it, you can do it too. It's not about that. Because a person who takes a crowded bus and has 3 hours of travel, she will get home tired, she will go to the gym, watch a soap opera,

I don't go to the gym.

And she won't think about tomorrow, like, I'll be a millionaire, or I'll be a billionaire, or I'll make more money. Sometimes it's just a dream, she'll be there, surfing the internet and watching a video. And she will be able to discuss, she will have the criticality to follow a different focus, to follow this success, this miracle.

What you're saying is great. The point here is this. Not everyone will become a billionaire. Some will become millionaires.

And that's why billionaires shouldn't exist.

This is another topic. We can talk about it too. But we can talk about success here, which is our topic. We can talk about it, but we can talk about success, which is our topic now.

But being a billionaire is a matter of success, right? It has nothing to do with success to say that billionaires shouldn't exist. Because sometimes being a billionaire is not a matter of success. You know other billionaires and you know that you must be the only one among them who doesn't have inheritance, that their parents didn't come from...

Many started...

Landowners or slaves owners.

Very few, look, very few are like me, who started in the suburbs. But many started from scratch. But what I want to say to you, just to finish this question, which I think is very important, Amanda, you are a warrior, an English teacher, you work in the area I like, which is English,

teaching English language. What I wanted to say to you is this, it is possible for everyone to improve their lives. Everyone. Not everyone will be a billionaire. Very few people will be billionaires. Some will be millionaires, but everyone can improve their lives. Do you want to see an example?

Yes, through studies they can improve their lives.

Exactly. This is an example. Through work they can improve their lives, but they don't change their...

The fact that you speak English...

We were expelled.

Time's up. Thanks, man!

Bye!

Are you going to stay here all day? I'm going to take a nap. My name is Luiz Felipe, I'm a geographer and a teacher. Today I'm here to talk about the profound inequality that exists in Brazil and the world and the importance of reviewing taxation policies for a kind of equating or reducing inequalities and injustices

in the face of the existence of 3 billionaires on the planet today. Good afternoon. My dear, here's the thing. Speaking of the issue of success and going back a little to the moral debate, I just wanted to remind you of something that billionaires and entrepreneurs eventually forget, which is how the powers in Brazil are not divided

between politicians and businessmen. In Brazil, most politicians are businessmen, most businessmen are politicians, and, curiously, they are white, they are people who didn't start from nothing, maybe you're an exception,

and they are people who use public policies to get rich. I've never made a penny of public money. Most of the time. It's good if you're an exception. But we see state-owned companies using the Constitution to favor themselves and concentrate a capital,

which my colleague was talking about, of about, only in Brazil, 2 trillion reais. This is in assets. 10% of this would pay two, three times the family stock. And worse, I think it concentrates a responsibility to make decisions that are very powerful

and that will limit, for example, the appreciation of a teacher, a nurse, a firefighter, a policeman. No, it doesn't. It limits because I've never seen anyone become a billionaire being a teacher, a policeman, a firefighter, or a person who cleans someone's house, or a teacher.

Sorry to interrupt you, just so we don't leave wrong concepts in the air. I agree with you on part of what you're saying, but there is no correlation between someone's wealth and someone else's poverty.

There is.

No, there isn't. There is, because the exploitation of capital, the way you think, could one day make everyone a millionaire, and that generates inflation. We see, for example, today a Bitcoin bubble, which has absolutely no service for humanity, because it doesn't generate jobs,

but it's producing a brutal concentration of wealth, when this money could be being distributed, paying salaries at least more fair to the working population.

How would this distribution of this money be?

A minimum wage, for example, love to be 5 times higher, but considering how Brazil is structured today, what do you think would happen if the minimum wage today, if we did this, and it was 5 times higher? You would have to take this money from somewhere, it's the bill that the Congress is trying to do. The point is that whoever is in there, who is less than 1%, is not a factual person, but we did this, and it was five times bigger. You should take this money from somewhere, it's the bill the Congress is trying to do.

The thing is that whoever is in there, who is less than 1%, it's not feasible that whoever decides the laws doesn't want to pay more taxes, because they are millionaires, they are multimillionaires. But I agree to pay more taxes.

But then convince your colleagues there who lobby in Congress to pay more too. No, I'm in favor of paying more taxes. If we could get these 1% to pay more taxes, it's not the 5% of Gleiser, it's 20, 30... What's your name again?

Luiz.

Sorry, Luiz. Do you know what needs to happen?

Yes.

It's to get a spreadsheet and make this account.

Yeah, but it's done.

No, but I'll give you an example. It's super conservative. But, okay, this project is worth 20 billion. 20 billion is two days of tax. Let's pay more. But what do you think happens? So, let's go. What do you think happens if we pay a lot more, like you're saying?

Rich people have to pay the bill. Do you think agribusiness investors

will move to Zurich to plant soybeans in Switzerland? Luis, do you know how many of the 10 richest Brazilians have tax residency in Brazil? Teach me. You don't know this number? Give me a guess. Of the 10.

10 richest in Brazil.

Let's say 10 living abroad.

So, there are 9. All right, but... Only 1 has tax residency in Brazil. Do you know how many millionaires...

Let me interrupt you.

No, no, just to conclude the reasoning. I'll give it back to you later. It's going to be quick. Do you know how many millionaire families left Brazil last year? 800. The country didn't stop, by the way.

It won't stop. The cities are still full and factories are still producing. But what happens when 800 millionaires leave the country? There's less tax evasion, who denies that? No, but you're generalizing. Yes, statistically, I don't deny that.

No, don't generalize, I don't deny taxes. I believe in you. It's not a private discussion, please understand. But when we generalize. No, no. When you generalize, you make mistakes. Not necessarily.

The OMC and the OCDE have a project, for example, that is working on a global scale to make this taxation globally. So the currency evader who is in Brazil and moves to another country will have to pay there too. But who moves to another country is not a currency evader. Evidently, he is leaving here not to pay taxes.

No, he will pay taxes somewhere else. That's why they call it tax havens, right? Not necessarily. The United States is not a tax haven. The main destination of the Brazilian is the United States, and it is not a tax haven. Are they increasing their fortunes there, with Trump's aggressive policy. They are increasing your fortune. And poverty is growing together.

But that's another topic. Let's focus on us. It's a matter of cause and effect. Do they work less there than in Brazil? No, they work there. And who works? Mexicans, Latinos,

the poor population or the millionaires? Everyone works. I work 12 hours a day. I believe that, but your reward is the salary of an app delivery man? You're opening too many windows, Luís. Perfect, because that's the moral discussion.

The effort to lead you to a fair reward. A person who works honestly, within what they can do, is a fair job. Because this job is not paid up to the level. Eventually, you'll have to charge more taxes from a millionaire to pay more for a person who does domestic work,

if the law creates parameters for that, this person will have to do it this way. Let's focus, because we're talking about random things. Let's focus here. We're talking here about the families, the 800 families that left Brazil last year.

What happens when a millionaire family leaves Brazil? They stop working, they stop investing their capital in that country, and they start working, producing, and investing their capital in another country. In financial capitalism, investment doesn't produce yet.

Take the case of cryptocurrencies, for example. They don't generate jobs. I'm not talking about cryptocurrencies. Or the villagers and investors who are not opening factories in Brazil. The country is getting out of business, you know better than me. What do you think is getting out of business? Because we started buying foreign capital companies

and cheapening the labor force that is exploited and enslaved in Southeast Asia, where new billionaires are emerging.

Exactly.

Not by chance.

Yes, but talking about... You open a lot of windows, Luis. But it's because I have a global vision. I understand your global vision, but what I want to say to you is... What is our topic here? That success is an exact science that everyone can learn.

It's not.

This is our topic. I'm arguing this. It's not because the person who works, who works hard, who is honest, who learns this early, won't necessarily get rich. Unless you tell me that entering a career as a steleonate is a way to learn to get rich,

maybe we can agree. But teaching someone success, I'm sure everyone here has parents, who teach the stone path from an early age, which is basically to be honest, study, do well, have discipline, don't screw anyone,

and these people are not becoming millionaires.

That's not the only way to get rich. So, but then comes the question of privilege. So, I can share... I can share my knowledge with you here.

Perfect.

Do you think you're going to teach me how to be a millionaire? Look, I can teach you to be a millionaire. I don't know if you'll be able to achieve that result. I can't guarantee that. Not by selling courses or building pyramids. Not pyramids, but selling courses is a possibility. I've been selling English courses for 30 years.

Very good, but that's not what made you rich, eventually. It was. It wasn't selling to a bigger company that had a projection of speculative capital. No, I already had more than 80 million in profit per year when I sold for 100% And why aren't the other people who sell like that rich? They are incompetent. It's a matter of performance.

It's a matter of performance. So 300 people are competent and 150 million Brazilians aren't. Eventually I'll tell you that...

You heard it. No, we...

Eventually... We are incompetent and lazy. Can I finish? Eventually, a person needs to learn. What do you do, for example? I'm a teacher. What do you teach?

Geography. You teach geography. I don't know any geography teacher who became rich. Neither do I. But I know an English teacher who became rich. I know a biology teacher who was rich. I know a professor of biology that became rich.

Giving a class?

Giving a class. He's my partner, even today. He's a biology professor. Obviously, he created a platform now for preparing for Enem. It's one of the things that he has to do.

Education platforming.

It's what's lowering our class time value. With the colleague. Thank you, guys. I'm so proud of you. With your colleague, right? Very good.

Thank you for your honesty.

Who places their hope in the state, ends their life poor and frustrated.

I'm back.

You had spoken in the first topic about who will arbitrate about what is moral and immoral in relation to the amount of money that a person accumulates or not.

Right?

So you think the difficulty is to find who will arbitrate, who will say what is moral and immoral. My hope is that the state, unlike a private company, it is theoretically from the people. It theoretically...

Do you believe what you're saying? So, I think it's in dispute. Your company is not from the people's. Do you believe in what you're saying?

I think it's in dispute. Your company isn't the people's. Your company is yours, your shareholders, the state is. Do you really believe in what you're saying? My hope isn't in the state. My hope is in our organization as a society, as a working class, so that we can, through the state,

bring this arbitration about what is moral and immoral in relation to money.

That's your hope. And my sentence is exactly this. Who has this hope, ends up poor and frustrated.

But then...

I'll tell you something, Juliano. From the bottom of my heart. I'm 53 years old, man. What we see the most is corruption, money laundering,

and all kinds of shit happening everywhere. The government comes in, the government goes out. Ideological orientation comes in, one way or another. We see...

I'll just say it quickly because I could be fired and you can't. But before I do...

I need to talk to you.

Just to bring up the argument... I'll to talk to you. To bring more arguments... You can talk. We are here in this dynamic. I won this race to get here and have this time to talk to you. It's a pleasure to talk to you. Yes, it's been very nice.

But I'm worried about my colleagues who want to talk too. I want to hear them. They will have time. We socialize. You just said you're happy. Can you be fully happy knowing we're living in a situation of inequality and poverty?

We need to understand what is the individual responsibility of each one of us. I can't carry the guilt, as you say, of the human beings. I don't mean the guilt, as you say, of the human race. I don't say that you are guilty. I can't carry the weight of the human race.

I'm not a government, I'm an entrepreneur. So I think that each individual should find his own way and not count on an entity called the State. and wake up five in the morning the next day. I know what that is. I know what it's like to get home at midnight and wake up at 5am the next day. I know what that is.

And you know you can't solve the problem by yourself, and you're telling me that on the first try.

But it wasn't the state that solved my problem.

No, you solved your problem.

And I'll tell you more, the state is the biggest creator of social inequality in the country. But the state is a disputing entity. Okay, but when the state is a disputing entity. It's fine. But when the state...

It's in the middle of causing problems. If I had access to the state, I would be working for solutions.

But who brings the solution is the entrepreneur.

Not only. Oops! Thanks.

It must be your last time, so it was a pleasure.

It was a pleasure.

All the best, man.

Man, you're strong, huh? All the best, man. You're a tough guy, man. So it's hard to argue with you.

This topic was very pertinent now, because I finished my speech just talking and asking the following question. Who is responsible for corruption in Brazil? Politicians or millionaire businessmen?

It's bad to generalize. If you say that it's the politicians or the businessmen, you're generalizing. I'd rather tell you that the root of all these problems is within the State.

And you'll include the State's And the State, you will include the agents of the State, whether they are public agents, politicians, or those businessmen who settle inside the State.

I will rephrase my question.

Are you listening to me?

I'm listening, but I will rephrase.

There are businessmen who settle inside the State and they function as if they were part, as a parasite inside this organism. But be careful not to generalize. I'm not generalizing, because... I'm sure that a businessman...

I'm not generalizing, because a businessman with his profile is not what I'd like to face here today. I understand. You came here hungry for something else.

I'd like to face another kind of businessman. Because there is corruption...

I'm sorry, my friend. Yes, back.

I remember your name.

Gabi.

I'd like to understand, if the state wouldn't do its job for you, what is your practical solution

to solve social inequality? Inequality will never be solved. But there are countries where we have less inequality. But inequality will always exist.

What if we talk about misery?

That's terrible. We have to end it. It's absurd.

What is it?

I'll tell you about poverty. In the beginning of the 20th century, we had about 65% of the population starving. 50 years ago, about 35% of the population was starving. Today, we are 9% of the population

who have food challenges. It's still absurd. If you think about it, how, for example, is there still hunger in the world if we produce so much food? Technology has advanced, we can produce...

Because we are doing things wrong.

But do you know what is the most expensive? It's not producing food, it's making it arrive. You can see that the places where there is more hunger are the places...

Where they produce more internally.

No, on the contrary. We produce a lot of food internally,

but we have a big hunger index.

No, it's low in the world.

Now we left the hunger map again, but we had entered the government in the past.

No, it's just that these numbers are so fanciful, Gabi.

They are data.

I know, but they are data. If we get into this, we'll spend our time talking about it. I wanted to tell you that it's not enough to produce food, you have to make it arrive. Sometimes, in places where you have great dictatorships or big places of corruption,

the food doesn't arrive. I'll give you an example. When there was that tragedy in Rio Grande do Sul, the businessmen, I was part of that movement at the time, we sent a lot of donations. I won't say it was the majority,

but a lot of the donations that arrived were deflected.

Because we have a corrupt system. Of course.

It doesn't arrive. Do you know what my conclusion is?

Capitalism is corrupt. It's not capitalism, it's the human being. Capitalism contributes to the system being corrupt because it's a human being.

Capitalism is a game of incentives. For example, a person is encouraged to invest their money to earn a profit, to earn money in exchange. This game of incentives is not perfect. There are many problems, but if it weren't for this game of incentives, I wouldn't have gotten out of poverty.

All right, but I wanted to know...

Gabi, just listen a little bit. Okay, go ahead. Just so you can get in tune with me. Why, for example, from the beginning of the 20th century until today, the average per capita income has increased sevenfold? For what reason?

For what reason? Why? Because we have a capitalist model, with all its problems, that multiplied by 7 the amount of wealth in the world.

Yes, but we still have people starving.

Unfortunately. In my view, the solution is not inequality. We have to aim at poverty. We have to end and exterminate poverty.

And what is your effective plan? Do you have a group of billionaires on Zapp?

I don't have... I have many friends who help. We invest. I don't like to say this and use it as a personal marketing platform. I spend a lot of money, a few million reais a year,

in donations to social projects.

Do you think that's enough?

Look, if everyone does it, you can be sure.

I'm not saying that you don't have to do it. I'm saying that it's a lot to do.

You can be sure that if everyone does it, we have the capacity to improve people's lives. Do you believe, for example, in non-governmental organizations that operate within communities? In some, yes. Yes, but there are some that are frauds.

Of course.

The serious ones, do you believe that?

That's what I'm saying.

I also believe that. Unfortunately, when money goes to the state...

But I think that the NGOs don't necessarily... They cover holes, you know?

But when money goes to the state, it doesn't necessarily reach the end.

That's the problem. Yes, we need to restructure society.

But you, my question is... You what? Billionaires?

You billionaires...

Don't put me in this package, please.

But you are...

Say it like this, you. Say it, say it to me, you.

No, it's because I'm not talking to the physical person, Fábio. For me, the legal person, billionaires, you know? We are independent. You came from the community... Gabi... Thank you.

I did it!

Now it's your turn.

I'm trying to shut up. My name is Rafaela, I'm a student. I think billionaires shouldn't exist. It's a huge accumulation of capital in our society. It's already very unequal. I think it's not natural.

What's your name?

Rafaela, nice to meet you.

Hi, Rafa, how are you?

I'm fine, I'm fine.

Tell me, Rafa.

If I may recap the subject...

Do you want me to talk about poor distinction? Let me explain a little bit, because it's a bit heavy.

All right.

One of the main causes of inequality is called social security. Stop to think that no matter how hard you work, and gather money, and do whatever you can to have a better life, in the end you'll depend on the INSS. You'll depend on a pension, which will be a mess, and which will be at most 8,000 reais, which is the top,

and most people don't get a fraction of that money. Not to mention the fact that... How old are you?

24.

Remember your name.

Rafaela.

Rafaela. So, 24, Rafa. You should retire in 40, 50 years. You have a lot of time. But the point is this. Did you know that you work today?

I'm unemployed.

You're unemployed. But when you're working, every month you'll be discounted 1% of the INSS. This money that will be discounted, which is mandatory, from your salary, this money is not a savings for when you retire. This money goes directly to pay the current retirees,

the old people who are receiving, precisely, receiving their retirement. That is, you work... This is the model we have, the sharing model. In this model, these people are receiving what you are working on today. But there is a point.

With the advancement of medicine, our old people are living more and more. That's good. That is, they take longer to die. That's good. Our parents, our grandparents, in a little while, me,

we're living longer. That's a positive point. But it's taking longer for people to receive the benefits of the NSS. But, on the other hand, the Brazilian population is no longer in the age pyramid.

In a little while, our geography teacher will help us with this? Our age pyramid is changing. Our base is getting smaller. We have fewer young people in our society. The third point is that they are getting married later. Do you agree that a person getting married at 25 is very young?

I got married at 20. Today, a person getting married at 35 is fine.

Yes, but...

Wait, wait. The last point is this. They are having less and less children. What is the consequence of this? There will be many old people receiving and few young people working.

In other words, this account simply doesn't close. That's why you have a presidential reform all the time. You have a presidential reform all the time. And with that, it's a great promoter of social inequality. So, if you are the person who believes in this system, unfortunately, to deposit your life in this system,

to deposit your hope in this model, your life will end up like I said, poor and frustrated.

Excuse me, were you graduated? No.

No, I'm not graduated. I left my college, I went to a federal college to study technology, and then I left my college to start working in sales. I worked in sales for four years, I learned how to sell, I learned how to lead sales teams, and that's when I understood how we go to the market

and make money. Learning how to sell, I created WiseUp, an English school. I opened the first school in 1995, and then I opened 400 of these schools throughout Brazil.

Do you agree that most of your professionals who work in your company, especially teachers, didn't depend on the state to be able to graduate? Some of them?

You think that without the state...

Not necessarily. Some of them did.

Because there are many people who can't do it nowadays.

I, for example, went to a federal college. Because I had no other option. If I didn't go to a public school, I would never be able to pay for a college. But it's over. You see that the path of my growth

wasn't through academic means. My path of growth was through other paths.

There are many other things. For example, there's a person who receives government aid.

We have 30 seconds.

Sorry, do you really want to?

You didn't go yet, right? I was going to bring an interesting closing. Let me just bring you two good news. The decline of mortality did not happen thanks to capitalism. The decline of mortality didn't happen thanks to capitalism. The decline of mortality happens despite capitalism. It comes from the science of creativity,

the hard work of the workers, which are exhaustively exploited because creativity becomes a commodity. And this corrupt state, when it becomes a collective state built by the population, leads to a system called communism. If you defend this, it will be something new, a billionaire saying we have to reach communism.

It's a very different state from capitalism. Give me 15 more seconds. Your arguments are great. I want to hear you. Go ahead. It would be excellent, because the state, in the end,

created slavery...

Are you in favor of communism? I'm in favor of a truly democratic government. The ways to reach it vary. Then we need to understand that communism is a government from people to people. Regardless of the name, I find it interesting. China is an experience that is called communist today.

Which is not communist. And it is a government that has very authoritarian characteristics, but speaking of statistics, in the last 60 years, China has taken 500 million people out of poverty. A dictatorship is always a shorter path. But speaking of statistics,

if I'm going to brag about capitalism that reduced poverty, China can brag about it because it reduced it with authoritarianism too. My thesis is that the state is a cutout of the population. The state is not like a private company because it is in dispute. So if I build a popular democratic state, this is the path,

it is the thesis of overcoming feudalism, going to capitalism and inevitably reaching another stage, which can be called socialism, communism or anything else, but where the state is elected by the people, unlike a billionaire businessman, who is a person who is there for N factors,

but who is not in dispute. A more competent person than you in your company, you transfer the position, or the colleague who is younger than you, in your search for happiness, would you trade your life with her to go back to her age?

If I could, I would. I guarantee you. Interesting. Look, if I could... Look, our time is over, professor. Look, our time is over, but if you allow me...

Dude, it was great talking to you. The other time was good, very cool arguments, very respectful. By the way, guys, thank you for the affection, for the respect of everyone here. It was very nice. Even those who didn't come here, sat down,

it was very nice to feel the feedback of each one of you. I want to end up talking to you about this topic. It's that I'm not in favor of communism. I haven't seen any experience in the world that would be favorable to implement this regime. In fact, I saw...

There wasn't.

There wasn't, I know. Maybe in the utopian abstraction of the utopian desires that we all have. I'm a musician, I also play. I have an artistic side and at the same time I'm a businessman. So, in our abstraction, we might wish for something

that was different from what we have. That's good, because the world is not fair. The world is not fair. We shouldn't even expect justice, because we'll be frustrated too. I learned to play the game.

I learned to play the game. And, within capitalism, it allowed me to leave where I left and get where I got. Through understanding the game, how it works. I learned to sell, I learned to generate revenue, I learned to make money, I learned to set up businesses.

So, I always think, that sentence I said, which was a sentence that generated a certain commotion in the group, that success is an exact science that we can learn. Whenever I look at someone, at you, at all the young people sitting here, I always imagine that everyone here can have a better life. Everyone here can learn to sell, to work within the game.

You don't need to agree with a system to play inside it. I think society is hypocritical. I think society has a series of contradictions. I think that when I look at the world, I don't feel excited when I look at politicians and not even with the model of what is called democracy in Brazil.

I don't like what I see. But either I will enter an endless cycle of discontentment and I don't know, I'll become a revolutionary, you know, because I'm a very intense person, or I'll play the game. I understood that I can play the game.

I understood that I can do it respecting people. I understood that I can do it honestly. I understood that I can do it trying to be fair understood that I can do it honestly. I understood that I can do it trying to be fair. We are not always fair in all situations. We are human beings. But trying to create a rule that is played by everyone

and that benefits the greatest part of people. For example, I firmly believe that the best way to distribute income is not by dividing wealth, but by dividing knowledge. I understand that knowledge generates income. I'll give you an example.

You're a geography teacher. You have an income generated by the knowledge you have. Maybe if you didn't have this diploma and this knowledge, you wouldn't have this income. So, in reality, your knowledge generated an income. Big or small, that's another discussion.

So, each block of knowledge can bring us benefits. But knowledge is commodified. In a society where I'm not obliged to pay for water or rent... Just so you know... Maybe, for my happiness, I'd share my knowledge without necessarily being a money-grubber.

I agree with you. I agree that, for 15 years, I've spent 2 to 3 hours a day producing content for people who want to learn how to sell, who want to learn how to develop. I, for example, have 12 million followers

on all my social media, producing content to help goal of helping people understand how to play this game. A person who doesn't need to close their eyes to injustice. Flávio, but with all due respect, it makes perfect sense that you strengthen the structure that benefits you.

This is nothing new. It's like generating a job and helping people explore the highest value. No, no, when I did that, I didn't have a company. I had sold it. Yeah, but if you did a course on how to overcome capitalism, your position of privilege would probably be scared. No, that's the topic.

Imagine at the time of feudalism, someone asking in the Industrial Revolution where capitalism had worked. Capitalism was also revolutionary.

Yes.

It's working, it's working.

...above what it's working. I'm going to do it.

I'm going to do it.

I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. I'm going the UN. My mother was a domestic worker. Good. The last thing the state did to end slavery in Brazil was that domestic workers didn't have labor rights.

The state did that.

No, the state... No, I'm going to tell you, the state... No, but the state is the guy who did the most atrocities in the history of humanity. As an institution, the church and the chaplain too.

...so that society would rise up. And the state is also responsible for that. And it should be more responsible, because education is not a business. It's for you. Education, I mean, citizen education, citizen education, it cannot be a profit.

Education is the obligation of the state, it's in our profit. Education is a state obligation. It's in our constitution.

Education is a moral obligation.

But, professor, with all due respect, my last sentence, which is the one we're having this conversation, which is nice because the program is almost over, and we're having this conversation here. It's a pleasure to be doing this with you. Man, who deposits, I say this with a pain in my heart,

but I say it, who will deposit their hope in the State? Poor and frustrated lives will end. It's really nice to finish this debate here. Everyone was very patient with me. I tried to be patient too. It was a very high-level chat. I think that my final message that which I want to leave here,

is that both businessmen and workers, each one is leaving their homes to solve their lives and lead a better life for their families. Each one is playing this role. And what we see here is that my utopian dream, I also have utopian dreams,

my utopian dream is that there is no state that hinders us. My utopian dream is that there is no state that exploits the worker. Because the law, the CLT that exists today, it takes a series of discounts from you, it discounts your source, it pays you, it doesn't even pay

the inflation on your FGTS. There is a model that, in my opinion, people receive a value, for example, a person who earns R$ 10,000 of salary, he will receive R$ 6,500, R$ 6,800, but it costs the company R$ 20,000, almost R$ 20,000, R$ 19,000 and a little. My utopian dream was to be able to give this something to the employee. That's my utopian dream. And that he had financial education to be able to invest his money.

And with the investment of his money, with a fraction of what he contributes to the NSS, he would make a savings that, at the end of his life, he would have a much higher salary than he would have in the NSS, and yet, that accumulated money would is inherited by his son. That is, instead of giving money to the NSS, to a state structure that will suck your money,

instead of keeping your money in your guarantee fund, which is money that doesn't even adjust to inflation, you are losing money with your FGTS deposited. This is the system the state offered. I, for example, have thousands of CLT employees because I follow the rules of the game, I follow all the laws.

I'm not a tax negotiator. I follow all the laws. I pay all the labor rights. But this model is one of the biggest creators of social inequality, which is what we would so much like to see decreasing in Brazil, in the world as a whole.

It's not something you'll take forever, but poverty is our moral obligation to end it. I hope the talk has been good. Here's my hug to you who watched this episode. A hug to all of you and thank you for your affection. Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.