3000 CHICAS y MILLONES mensuales: La MADAME de Cartagena REVELA sorprendentes SECRETOS de su IMPERIO

For more than five years, she was the best known madam in Cartagena. We could say that she was from Colombia and Latin America. She was in charge of preparing all those single people's farewells in Cartagena. She had quite a few people. Many businessmen, athletes, artists. Liliana Campos.

Liliana, thank you for being with us. Thank you for being here in our studio in Bogotá. How many girls did you work with, Lilian?

Around more than 3,000 girls.

3,000 girls?

More.

Why so many? Because it was many years in which we were working. Some came, got what they wanted, retired. Others stayed for many years. And through some, others were coming. Many girls who wanted the opportunity, since we are in a country that does not offer many opportunities, and they chose that job.

I remember that once there was great news. A huge yacht came from an American businessman. That was news in Cartagena. And today, preparing the podcast, you told me that you took your girls there. Yes. Tell us.

It was an event not like the ones I'm used to, which are in a house. This was a call less than 24 hours before the fact. A person called me, who obviously I'm not going to give you the name, and when he told me, no, that there is a mega yacht and it's a very important person and it needed girls between 19 and 25 years old.

The person didn't want to see pictures. She wanted us to go there. When that happened, I was intrigued because she said, such an important person and why did I have to go to that mega-yacht. Obviously, when I wrote in the chat about that event, everyone wanted to go. I never communicated with the businessman before the event, only with his assistant.

And when I asked him why me, he said, because it's very well recommended. It was an event that is no secret to anyone. Obviously, a mega yacht like that in the city of Cartagena is not parked at the pier for free. You can imagine how much tax I paid for all the days I was there. But I give you faith that we were only there for two events. That person was a very, very good person.

There was no disorder there. There were no men there. He was the only man there. Him? And his assistant. And how many women? There were more than 20.

They were all paid by company. He wanted to have a nice evening, a nice night. He had us make the food we wanted, the cocktails we wanted, and we left all excited. The next day, there were less people.

And, oh surprise, through the assistant, the Lord told me that I needed to take, of all the two groups that I met in those two days, I needed to take four. Where to? They went sailing, and they were sent by plane. They were sent by plane.

The girls came back super happy. Super happy. They told me that a man took them shopping, gave them money, treated them very, very well. And how much did they earn?

And how much did you earn? And how much did you earn?

She gave me a good gift. I'm not going to tell you how much, but she gave me a good gift.

A good gift? Yes. And what about them?

For being there as a company, for each girl, she gave 2 to 2.5 million. And there were some who gave her money, I mean, like a tip, like a gift too. A mega yacht, Monaco style, Europe style, it was an incredible thing.

That was not talked about in my news. And no one had a secret. In fact, I was escorted by police officers to get into that yacht. To get there? Yes.

The same officers from the…

The street we left Boca Grande was closed. It was closed until the first traffic light on the Renault tower, until we disembarked. How did you start in all of this? How did you become that famous Madame de Cartagena, who ended up in prison for five years? We will talk about that later. Well, I came from the United States in 2005. I brought money because I obviously sold my house, but I made a bad investment, which forced me to work from my own account.

During that time that I worked from my own account in sales, I sold shoes and things. I met some friends, they were not ... and we really liked the rumba. We really liked the rumba, we went to all the discos in Cartagena. That night, I didn't go because my children left for the United States and when they left, they came back from vacation and had to go back, I was a little off. My friend called me and said, Lili, last night we went out, I met some Russian guys from New York.

But they don't speak Spanish. And we want you to come. We are in a big town in Boca Grande. So you can meet them and we can understand them. I said no. After two or three hours I decided and I went.

Nobody forced me. The guys felt very nice. There was no prostitution work. Like a group of friends. Friends, friends, we went to rumble, to eat. And then they were looking for a boat.

I was not in this business and I take them to the dock. When I take them to the dock, they rented a boat, they took us to the islands, they gave us food, drinks, everything. And when they were leaving, one of them told me that some friends were coming, there were six of them, this group was eleven, of 11 the next Friday, that is, four days later, that if I could attend them. I told him, how if I have no experience in tourism, none of this. In a way, it gave me a little fear. And he tells me, Lili, do it because I don't know anyone.

It's the first time, we're always going to Costa Rica, we're going to Aruba, it's the first time in Colombia. I told him, well, give him my number. I decided, I said, I'm going forward because I'm a gunman. I became a businessman. I became a businessman and I started walking the streets of Cartagena dressed up and knocking on doors.

And I said that I was a commissioner, that I had experience in renting houses, if I was given the opportunity. There were some houses that had never been rented. The owners had locks and locks of cobwebs because they didn't live in the country. All those houses that I mentioned to you, I rented them. I started taking pictures, videos, I made an album.

Obviously to have options to send to the clients. But they were only houses? Houses. Then I got involved with boats and yachts. To get people yachts. Exactly, but everything was done by sending pictures. It was not that they were going to take the boat that I wanted or a house. I received a 10% commission for these houses and boats and yachts.

I received a 10% commission for each night of the house and for each day of the rent of the boat and house. And when do the girls show up? They were complaining because they went out to the street and they were no't sure about the girls they were going to pick up on the streets. That's when I propose to go to the cabarets in Cartagena. The only two or three that were good, one in the center and others in other good neighborhoods. I went there, I'm not a drinker, I'm not a drinker.

I drink when I deserve it and I'm very in control of that. And I had to sit down to drink water, watching while they interacted with the girls, while they went up, they had whatever. And as I went, I was always alone with them, but I was sitting alone. Girls would come and ask me where I was bringing these men from. And they would tell me, but don't bring them anymore, because with them, here we earn less. And if they take us out of here, they charge us a fine.

At first I didn't understand, but then they explained it to me well. nos cobran multa. Al principio no entendía, pero luego me explicaron bien. Es cuando ellas se van saliendo de esos lugares y van buscando hospedaje para estar seguras en mis eventos. Y es cuando también yo decidí buscar dos casas. Una en el barrio Crespo frente a la fiscalía. Y ahí vivían 12 chicas y otra en el barrio manga donde vivían de 12 a 16 chicas. Y las otras ya tenían sus propias...

Que ya comenzaban a trabajar contigo. Sí. Otras que ya habían ya habían trabajado conmigo también. Y de ahí comienzan y qué They had already worked with me. And from there they start, and what happens? Some already made groups and got themselves apartments. Others already took them empty, they wanted to have their own place. Well, these houses that I rented them, they were crates. I invested in what were the beds, everything that was there.

In one way or another, Rafa, I had to get my investment and obviously earnings. That was not a cabaret, because in fact one of the rules was that men could not enter there, unless it was a man from the household or a man who was a stylist, who were the only ones who went there with male sex. What was done in that house? There was a person in charge of their food, their cleaning and washing their clothes.

I charged them 250,000 pesos every Saturday and they paid me on Mondays. Obviously, when their envelopes were paid, they took them out and gave me the money. In those houses, I rested. In those houses, I would rest. In those houses, nothing existed.

No. The houses had cameras, because obviously I didn't live there. And the reason for the cameras was a request from themselves. To know, I always got lost with a swimsuit, with a heel, with a chain, with a hairpin. I didn't need more stress than I had with work. At first I proposed that they all pay the cameras and they told me that I didn't have to.

I put them with my money. There, for example, I could see if the employee had already made the food, if they were all at home. Which if they left, because we all communicated through a chat, which was set, there is an event at that time, then they would put available, available, available. It was not as the prosecutor said at the time that the security cameras were used for scams and torture. And also to be able to see,

because my dad was supposedly the catcher, a 78-year-old man, a prosecutor, and at the time I had to understand that my dad was with them because obviously, like the guy who said, if they were good to work with me or not.

And before God's eyes, my father did not know exactly what I did. And my father is an innocent person and he had to pay for this. Pay for jail? Yes, my father paid for jail. How long? A year and something, and they gave him a house with a pre-agreement that I made,

as long as they gave him his house, which I made so that they would give him his house. Which by law, he had to, because of his age. Later, you tell me about your prison.

And there you grew up.

Yes.

I started, after these guys told me to get into that. They didn't force me. I liked it, because I'm very, I like to work for someone. I have always liked to be independent. So I liked it, I saw that it was profitable. Imagine three or four nights a house, for example, that if it cost five million, it was 500,000 a day. So it was profitable. Then the boat, I gave him the opportunity to generate employment. I gave the opportunity to chefs, to DJs, to ladies who obviously helped with the acid and things.

Sellers, restaurants also benefited. The transports. Let's say it was growing, it was growing. How did you recruit the girls? I never recruited a girl.

How did they get to you?

They came to me because through several that already worked with me, as I told you, they left there, they saw that the payment was better than anywhere. How much could they earn monthly? A bad month, 12 million pesos. Bad or regular, 24 million pesos, because there are also seasons. And a good month, 50 to 60 million pesos.

Per month?

Yes.

And many times I clarify, and thank you for this opportunity, Rafa, you were not. I can give you faith, and I would like that one day, some girl would say it. There were girls who made money without sex. And how was that? Not only do men from abroad come to look for company, to look for a party, to party. There were men who asked me for four or five girls and I suddenly saw them sitting down and I could say,

look, you're sitting down, the boy paid for you, you see, dance. And the boy said to me, you can relax, I'll pay for them. I mean, I was hoping they would provide an excellent service because they told me, no, leave her alone.

And those who came for you,

who were your clients? There were all kinds. The only thing I can tell you is that I never attended a group or a place and asked them, what do you do for a living? I am a very prudent person.

I would never expose my life or my security asking someone, what do you do for a living? And if he's a guerrilla, and if he's a drug dealer, and if he's a psycho. I was always prudent. and if he's a drug dealer, and if he's a psycho. I mean, no.

I was always prudent. But most of them were recommended. Most of them, no, that you're going to call a friend. No, call this girl who's already in the firm in Cartagena.

You said goodbye to many single people.

I said goodbye to single people. It was my potential. And birthdays. It's weird, birthday of men, but I said goodbye to single people. And apart from that, privates. For example, we call privates, what did the congress come to? Rafa, let's take off the mask on all this.

At the beginning there was a lot of pressure and a lot of fear for me to speak, not anymore. Let's say who comes to Cartagena, yes, as I clarify it to you right now, there are men who do not come, but to look for a beautiful girl to get on a yacht or lock themselves up so that they can give her a massage, or for him to talk to his wife, or for him to tell the girl, you're beautiful and I want to take a picture with you on the clock tower.

No, what happens is that here there is a lot of double standards. And I just know, yes, of everything. When I tell you that there was everything, there was everything. All the positions that you want or that you imagine at this moment, yes. But I'm not going to give you names.

Family men?

Yes, most of them. But I'm not here or anywhere to, not so that there will be divorces because I speak, much less I'm going to betray absolutely no one. At the beginning they said, Madame is going to turn on the fan.

False, I never said that. What is she going to talk about? Never. I'm a serious person. I speak about who is pulling me. As is the case of... that they have asked me where this came from.

I just always answer. the same and the same. Don't ask me that. At the time, who was the Attorney General of the nation? He is the one to ask. Where did this research come from?

The only thing I've always asked myself, and through your program I dare to do it, I would like the Director of Childhood and Adolescence, who was at that time, the Director of the Police,

the General, who was at that time, and the Prosecutor, who was at that time, to tell me where the ****** were, where they are, where the 250 victims? And where is my relationship with an Israeli who was my partner? I never had a partner. I am selfish with my work. I prefer to generate employment as I did, to people who obviously want to get ahead.

Now, later we will talk about your judicial case. How did the business work? How did they contact you? And what rate did you give them? And how did this work? Three hours, 24 hours, how did your thing work?

As I told you at the beginning, everything starts with a person and everything was a recommendation. I never, ever went to a bar, to a corner, or to a page. I never had pages. Never. And that I modeled fake VIP body. I can't put a price on their work. I can't put a price on their work. I can't put a price on their work. I can't put a price on their work.

I can't put a price on their work. I can't put a price on their work. Yo no puedo ponerle precio al cuerpo de una muchacha. Yo no puedo ponerle precio al trabajo de ellas. Cabe indicar de que siempre se pagaba con moneda extranjera, sea euros o sea dólares, libras esterlinas. Siempre se le respetó su tarifa, sin importar si el dólar subía o el dólar bajaba. They were always respected for their rates, regardless of whether the dollar rose or fell.

For example, a service that at that time lasted for 3 hours, 6 hours, 12 hours, 24 hours, for saying that they were getting 2 million pesos, and if the dollar fell, I couldn't tell them the dollar went down. dollar bajaba yo no les podía decir a ellas el dólar bajo otra cosa ellas no querían dólares yo me arriesgaba a viajar a Barranquilla a cambiar las divisas y de paso ya me decían alguna me decía no Lily dame los dólares otras me decían no Lily cambia eso cambia eso y yo viajaba a Barranquilla and they would pay me. Every event they went to, they would sign their signature.

In all their events, they never had anything, there was never anything. Even the weekend that they captured me, being already in jail, they paid me the last dime.

They came and how did they carry out that agreement?

24 hours, how did that work? Okay, some already had, because I already offered them some tourist tours. Others came with a plan, not a pool party on the first day, not a yacht on the second day. The other day, no, only men. Only men, let's go to a restaurant. Some liked to take her to restaurants, others didn't. I don't know if out of prudence, out of respect, because they were married men, they didn't know who was going to be the toad there with a cell phone, I don't know if it was out of prudence, out of respect, because they were married men, they didn't know who was going to be the toad there with a cell phone, I don't know.

I never asked. I often went to the airport with one or three girls. I almost never liked to go alone. Not to put them as bait, as if they were selling them, as if they were fruit. They liked to go there. Why? Because the ones who went to the airport were the first ones to line up. It was a coincidence that when they arrived, the chef had already prepared a lunch for them, they immediately wanted a party.

They were already drinking, they were already getting into the pool, they already wanted the girls there. If there were 10, they brought 20 or 25 girls. Most of the events stayed all. Most. There were many men who did not like to return the girls. Explain that to me better, so that everyone understands. When they arrived, they were the ones who had their time. If they wanted a pool party, or if they wanted a reservation at a restaurant, or if they wanted to go out alone.

Most of the time, they wanted everything at home, more private. So, with the girls that went to the airport, those girls would automatically fit in. If there were 10 men, I would always offer 15 to 20 to make a lineup to choose from. And the women? No, they would stand there, or I would give them an hour to interact, to talk to them, because many of them didn't want a body, or surgery, or face, or hair. para que hablaran con ellos porque muchos de ellos no buscaban cuerpo ni cirugía ni cara ni pelo quería una muchacha alegre una muchacha que que ellos tuvieran un tema conversación que les causara risa o si fumaba

que fumaran con ellos y así pasa de que muchas veces todas eran porque ellas para que todas eran alegre todas eran perchadas habían grupos que les daba como pena dejaron así y a otras no because they were all happy, all of them were brides. There were groups that were sad, they left some like that and others didn't. And they said, no, Lily, they're all staying. They're all staying and that's it.

I also, with them, we looked for strategies like, well, a man paid for one, 24 hours, and then the other, everyone paid for each 24 hours, and then the other wanted to play this one. So that was going to build up a thing, and then girls would say, Lili, but how is this like this? No. So, I said, no, charge her extra. That's where the word extra comes from. An example, Juan pays for Patricia, but if Pedro wants, with Patricia, he has to pay her an extra.

Even when he was hired for 24 hours? Yes. And most of the events were not cruel. As I hear right now, don't believe me because I didn't get involved again, nor do I want to get involved in anything else. But there are still girls who worked with me and tell me. Or there is always a rumor, even though I try not to be interested in that.

You had three hours, six hours, twelve hours, and you told me that... Twenty-four. Twenty-four. And how did that work for each of them, and what was warned to the client. When it was 3 o'clock, I told the group, because that's what the girls told me, one relationship, call it... call it...

call it... or whatever it is. I didn't allow any client to come with the story, oh, it's just that such a thing, what happens is that I blew, and then such a little thing did not rise, that's not her problem, that's your problem.

Three hours have already passed and bad, if nothing happened, if you want more time, pay her, because she never told you, go blow so that it doesn't work. But most of the time, those inconveniences occurred every year, say, two or three. Because I always made sure to work with

conscious people and serious people. Six hours, I would do two. Between 12 and 24 hours, only three relationships. If they wanted more, it was just her and him. They would fix it, if it was an extra, or it happened many times.

It happened twice. I went to get the client, the money, the girl, and she said no. I already talked to her, I talked to Miranda, and I said, I already paid you, and she said no. I fell in love. And I already talked to him, he's going to send me a monthly fee,

he wants me to retire.

Really?

Yes, it happened. And I say, a woman doesn't fall in love.

No?

No.

A man can fall in love, because I'm not going to lie to you, that he has feelings, he has a heart. But if you are risking your morals, your dignity, for this job, do you think you're going to take your son? A heart, you're going to put it on the plate, eat a heart, eat my feelings, I'm going to pay for my university with love. No, a flower, it's because she likes money.

Although there were many who worked weird because at the events that I took them, they charged. And they were piles, no, the money, the money, the money. And then the days off disappeared with the famous and weird ones. parecían con los famosos israelitas porque tenían los ojitos azulitos verdecito eran bonitos teníamos culito entonces sólo estaban gratis y hasta lo que ganaban en los eventos se los mal gastaba con ellos con ellos si por eso me dio rabia en su momento

cuando me quisieron vincular con ellos porque ahorita no ahorita no puedo decir que yo odio a los israelitas porque pero los detestaba porque para mí no era justo lo que pasaba. ¿Qué pasaba con las mamás de estas chicas? Si muchas de las mamás saben. Si hubieron entre esas tres mil mujeres que conocí o más If there were among those 3,000 women I met, or more, 10 moms who didn't know, it was a lot.

Really?

Yes. Because many said they came only on weekends, and said they were protocol models, They would come to advertise for Allpart, a cigarette brand. And the moms believed them. Did famous girls go to work with you? Yes, I met a lot of them. They worked through me. The direct contact with me her was through a group of girls who worked here in Bogotá.

They were very close. In fact, they were traveling and one of them had to go to Cartagena. She liked the pay, the environment, and she liked the environment, she liked everything. And through her, she told me, Hey, Lily, I have some friends who have also sent me, and they want to meet you. I repeat, Rafa, never.

Look, through this program, I challenge you, and I try it, and I assure you, that you stop here on your show, the first girl to say, Liliana insisted, she called me, she got my number, she looked for me, she's lying.

They always looked for you.

Always. They were the ones who looked for me. As I told you, the payment was good. The parties were fun. How did you have to dress? Oh no.

When you went to the airport, for example.

The wardrobe, yes, that was the rule number one. I didn't accept vulgarity. At an event, you didn't come in tennis, you came in jeans shorts, that the short-sleeved mochi, that a short skirt. If you took off this part, you had to cover the whole bottom. I mean, I could wear a crop top with a long pants.

I never allowed those short, naked dresses. Long dresses. That's why I was very selective. I didn't give her opportunities, as Liliana Campos said at the time, with girls working at the Renault Tower. Never.

Never on the street.

Never.

I'm not going to lie to you. On several occasions we were with the groups in a disco. There were girls who were there and I didn't know them, looking for them. And the girls would come up to me and say, oh, those guys don't want to be interested. No, she's the owner of the event.

They came to me and I looked at them head on. And well, this girl is missing something. And like two or three, if I gave them the opportunity, they were not from here, from Cartagena, I gave them the opportunity. But already starting to work with me, I demanded a lot of class, a lot of class, behavior, they had to be good or they wouldn't work.

They couldn't steal, lie, conspire, because it happened many times that they were paid. Because they were paid. And they took advantage and said, no, he didn't pay me. Then they came in handy, and then the event was over, and the guys paid come to the event and the event was over. How did you win? I won the commissions, as I told you.

But did you pay them for what you did? No, they paid me the quota of the group I had. And as I told you, if they have their stipulated payment, let's say, they ask you, no, I charge 3 million pesos. You have to respect that. An example, if they are charging in pesos,

to tell you a figure, 5 million pesos, and I told the client, it's 1,500 dollars, pesos. Y yo le decía al cliente son mil quinientos dólares y el dólar bajó. Entonces en suma colombiana daba cuatro setecientos. Yo no le podía decir a cuatro setecientos, yo le tenía que dar sus cinco millones. Entonces yo iba mal con los trescientos. Pero pongamos que el dólar subió. $300, but let's say the dollar went up. They were aware.

They told me, Chuchi, how are you going to go to Barranquilla to change the currency? You pay for gas, you pay for tolls. Among those girls, there was never a repair in respect to money. And in fact, they were never my victims, that I exploited I never wanted to violate their rights.

They called you Chuchi? Yes, we called each other that. And when you were going to do something, what was it like?

We called each other that, today there is a Chuchu. We didn't talk about an event or, look, you're going to a job like this, we had a chat, and we all said, let's go to the chuchu. And not to avoid anything with the prosecutor, because in fact I didn't even know they were investigating me. You grew so much that every weekend how many events did you do? I started with a monthly event or every two months event that I got for my personal expenses, my rent, my services, because I was a single mom. But I don't explain to myself when I grew up. But I tell you, I earned it. Because mine was not a drop from the sky. I sweated it. I...

I got to have 13 groups on the weekends. I couldn't. The girls themselves helped me. They split up. Chuchi, how many yachts are there in the nautical club? There are seven.

Oh well, I'll take care of this one. Chuchi, I'll take care of this one, I'll take care of that one, I'll take care of that one. How many were there in the dock? In the dock, three would stop, they would call 10. And the other one, no, the other one would be somewhere else. That's how we helped each other, we were a team, there were no secrets.

And all with girls? All with girls. And how did you manage to do the accounting and have all of that. Everything, I managed everything here. I knew how many, they helped me. In fact, the one who took care of a house or a yacht, they knew. I already took the accounting of absolutely everything when we went to the islands. Because in the islands of Cholón, I tenía los trabajadores allá, nativos, que ellos me atendían, eran tres

a cuatro. Ya yo hacía la lista, yo primero conversaba desde la casa antes de llegar a la isla, le decía a los grupos, ustedes que van a comer, no le di lo que tú digas. Entonces yo les pedía bandejas de pulpo, bandejas de camarones, pescado, octopus, shrimp, everything. We had a number, they were going to put up a jet ski, well, put five jetski here, put four jetski here, depending.

Were there clients who wanted to work with you?

Yes. And?

And, no, I mean, it's normal, I'm not ugly. Only once there was a boy who wanted services for the single farewell of his brother and he told me that as it was everything, I started sending him the photos of the houses, of the yachts, and I remember that when he calls me and tells me, and that girl you have in your profile is available. And I said, which girl? He said the one in your profile.

I said, no, that's me. We ended up talking and he invited me to Cancun. It was like, I expected he was going to be a man, this crazy, drug addict, rumbero, it wasn't like that. One of the events that made the subject of prostitution in Cartagena known the most worldwide was when the American president Barack Obama came

and some members of the secret service, supposedly they didn't pay a girl,

if I'm not mistaken, called Dania Londoño.

Yes.

Did you have anything to do with that? No, they asked me, but no.

Are you sure?

No.

When you laugh like that, I don't know.

No, because it's not the first time that I'm asked that. I hope not. Did you know Dania Londoño? I knew her well. It's not the first time I've been asked that. I have faith that I haven't. Did you know Dalia Londoño?

I knew her well.

On two or three occasions, we just had friends in common, but I never had a conversation with her. She didn't work with you? No, never. I think she left the country.

She asked you a lot about that event, and that pushed your work in a certain way.

Not at all. When that happened, I was dedicated to commerce. I sold merchandise in beauty salons, I had a lot of customers. I already had tennis, clothes, perfumes, whatever they asked for. My family sent me to the United States.

You started later. Yes.

2013 more or less. And I continued, my business I still continue it today, about the commerce of merchandise sales. I never stopped that. I started it from 2005 and until now. They said that one of the problems you had

was that you worked with girls of my age.

False. False.

Absolutely. False. A thousand percent. False. And through this program, if there was a girl who came here and told us,

hello mom,

the prosecution, when the show was so media-heavy at the beginning, it's no secret to anyone, Rafa, when there's such a media-heavy show, the prosecutors want the person to be immediately taken to the charges. How am I going to be taken to a criminal conduct of something that is not true? That's where my family comes from. no es cierto. De allí es de donde se desprende coger a mi familia. Porque es que fiscalía pensaba que yo era alguna vendedora de un bombón de

buses, que por ver un fiscal yo me iba, o por ver un juez yo me iba. No, yo no nací el Día de los Temblores y me decidí a hablar ahora y a darte, pues a darme la I was going to say no. I was not born on the day of the earthquakes. And I decided to speak now and give you the opportunity in this interview. There were never any bad things about me. They never said that I sponsored children in Barranquilla, that I sponsored a Venezuelan family and every 15 days I would go to Barranquilla, or I would call Pharmatodo,

send him the milk, and not that cheap milk, send him a family, send him diapers. How can a person like me, a defender of the rights of minors, who likes to help people,

I'm going to exploit, by the finger, never. Now, the houses that I rented, one of the rules was, give me a cedula. And the cedulas were stored there. They took photoscopies and I could give you the names of the houses.

And how did you know that those cedulas were legitimate? I had a civil servant, a friend of mine who didn't work with me. I just met him and he told me, Lili, this is not illegal, but be very careful that a minor will ever leak your information. And I told him, and not because they ask for a credit card at home. He told me, no, there are many fake credit cards. So what I did was take pictures of him on both sides and he verified them. They also said that your husband at the time, or your partner at the time,

not only hired yachts, which hired many yachts in Cartagena, but you were also in charge of providing them.

False. False.

False.

In all those places, Javián.

Yes. Rafa, let me tell you something. If in an operation with so many scandals, you see this one, at a global level, this was seen by the planet, lo vio el planeta. Están la banda criminal en el momento del allanamiento y de mi captura. Porque fiscalía los deja ahí en la casa. Si él vende y él trabajaba conmigo, como dijo fiscalía, ¿por qué no lo capturó conmigo? ¿Por qué si mi papá que estaba en la otra casa que vivía aparte en un apartamento independiente,

¿por qué no lo capturaron el mismo día? Mis sobrinos, que uno de ellos, mi hermana se fue a Estados Unidos por ser mayor de edad, no le dieron el estatus legal. Se queda estudiando, yo me hago cargo de su alimento y todo. ¿Por qué no lo capturaron? I take care of their food and everything, why wasn't he captured? It's no secret that all of this was a circus, where clowns were missing.

And I say this publicly, prostitution in Colombia is legal. What is not legal is exploitation, having victims. What is not legal is prostitution with minors. What is not legal is to exploit neither older nor younger. That is illegal. Who took them to the places? In those places, in those houses, closed doors, they consumed,

right? Many of the groups, as I tell say again, already come with contacts. Because many groups did ask me, Lili, where do we get... I told them, no, that's not going with me. That's not going with me.

I'm not going to tell you that they came with contacts, or they were taken, in fact, the same girls, just to blow, just to smoke, they themselves told the boys, oh look, let's buy this, this is cool, this is cool, because at that time the came for coke they with the pharandola that they like coke and then they ended up liking that the toxic, that the this, that the fuck, that this but me and my family, no because that would have been sued by the prosecutor myself

that would have been sued by the prosecutor myself

already

that there was any civil treatment. But I sold them or took them away. I can't tell you. All the girls used to use it. There were girls who didn't consume it. We've been talking to Lili for a long time.

We had breakfast in Cartagena, but that was about two years ago. And we recently spoke on the phone too, convincing you to come to Bogota. And I thank you very much because you're not telling me, I'm going and I'll charge you.

No, you've been a very correct person and I talk a lot with you. I was very struck by the fact that we've been talking the United States for a long time and I've spoken to you a lot. It caught my attention that two weeks ago we spoke. You were telling me how on some occasions you saw absolutely well-off businessmen to get to Cartagena elegant and after two days they were back nothing for consumption good for no one is a secret that the tourist comes to Cartagena to party to look for women and to look for men. And I say this everywhere, I don't want to say to you,

oh, a businessman or a I don't know what, just comes to look for men, right? You can still find them in whatever country they are. When I refer to that comment I made to you, it was that I arrive at the airport and I'm seeing a man, well, I mean, you can see by his profile who he is.

Call him a professional athlete, call him an actor, call him a businessman, call him a law officer in the United States. Even here, here you can see a very serious man and then you can see everything. What you least expect to see.

You see.

Like what?

Everything. They're men, and at half an hour they're like, I don't want to be with you anymore, but with Him. You're surprised, but I'm telling you, I'm not God. But in this environment, you can see everything. There were events that...

The most surprising event was an event that... There were four boys. They told me that if the girls had long hair, they would wear a bow tie. So, I didn't know that group. Everything was by phone, as I told you, I was exhausted, I wanted to stay at home. And one of the girls

obviously went, charged, handled it, and says to me, Lili, what divine men! That is, until I mean, they turned off the light. That was the joy. I fell asleep and the next day, it was a laugh, a laugh, I didn't understand the chat. And they didn't want to tell me what happened, but tell me, no. These men made us pick up our hair, and all with the same same bun, like this,

pulled back, and they took out some, some members, let's say, and they said that we should not tie them up, So we were the ones who didn't have to...

That's what it was. Really?

Yes, really. I'm not lying. It's just that it looks like everything. And I'm telling you, there was control. Because I can give you faith that while I was managing this job, there was control. There was never an overdose. Nowadays there is. There was never a girl abusing a client with marijuana.

There was never anything. What I know now, no. But if you see crazy things, that was an anecdote that I couldn't hold back laughing. Like four cute men, who among other things, the girls obviously, the cuter they are, the more they like them. And they leave with that surprise, but I was stunned.

I was stunned. They were calling me, it was precisely like saying, Lily, this is fair, you knew this. I say, no, I don't know that. They were calling me, and it was like saying, Lily, this is fair, you knew this. And I said, no, I don't know that.

They're fetishes. A while ago you were telling me that girls also have their tricks so that they fall asleep, so that they don't work

so much and leave them alone.

In the meetings we did, many things were exposed. I, as an entrepreneur, and they, as workers, because we were a team, no one abused anyone.

Neither them nor me. And they exposed us like lilies. What happens is that sometimes we have a 24-hour event, a Thursday, and they are no longer asking for a Friday.

So I told them, look, this works almost the same as if you had a husband who wants to be with you every day. So they all put something, an opinion, and I told them, there are many strategies. I mean, I'm in the pool with someone, we're talking, we're having sex, we're sharing a cocktail, we're dancing, and suddenly I can, you can go have a relationship. Hey, I'll make sure this man rests, I'll make him a mazan. It's 24 hours, but it should worth saying that they rest a lot. Because they sleep, they also sleep.

There are some that are so crazy that they keep running, but that's a problem for everyone. And yes, my strategy was used, but to use them or sleep them or pass them by, no, I would never have allowed something like that. Never. It was very strict, both with them and with them. There were some who liked to be slapped in the butt. I would tell them, no, it's not allowed. It's not allowed, they're not animals anymore. You can touch them, they're women. Treat them as if they like your girlfriend or your wife. The fact that you are paying them, you should not abuse them.

And today they say that in public. In Cholón, they have told me, still present, how she defended those girls. Look, I didn't allow any native to mistreat those children. I was hurting for them. And I show a button, Rafa, there is the sample.

They show a victim. If I were the monster, like they painted me, the predator, don't you think I would have the supposed 250 victims that they said I had? And they never showed them. And I never heard them. No one testified about the alleged victims?

No. When they captured me, they were emanated, but they went to cry. Emanated, outside the court, and outside the police station that they had me. Chuchi, no, Chuchi, why? This is not done. I can show you the letters, I forgot to bring them. They wrote to me, they sent me food, they sent me dessert, Mother's Day, while I was in Cartagena,

Mother's Day, birthdays, flowers, flowers, I mean. And now that I got out of my freedom, they all swore that this would continue.

And now you tell me that, to conclude. When were you arrested?

On July 29, 2018.

2018. They accused you of trafficking, induction into prostitution at the age of 18, and a concert to commit a crime.

Yes.

Those were the crimes that I was left with in written accusation. When they caught me, they put me on the age of death. And during those 120 days that the prosecution had to present the written statement, they couldn't prove me. Even though they were looking for false witnesses.

They couldn't.

No. And the girls didn't go to that prison that the Dijin investigators had. They didn't go. How long were you in jail? Five years? Physically, I had two months to complete the five years. And with work, which was my redemption, I served almost six years.

In which prison did you spend your time?

In the district here in Cartagena. I was transferred to the prison La Vega de Cincevejo as a guard, not knowing that I had been assigned a security profile. perfil de seguridad. Me trasladaron otra vez en calidad guardada 72 horas en el buen pasor en Bogotá y luego ya me enviaron a Coimbra, Picaleño en Ibaguén.

¿Cómo describes este periodo de la cárcel tuya?

Para mal, te puedo decir que mujer operada, mujer bonita y mujer con plata I can tell you that a woman who has had surgery, a beautiful woman, and a woman with silver in a prison in Colombia, suffers. Because the envy of the dragonians, not of all, is tenacious. And more if they are lesbian and you are not. I love you so much. Apart from that, there are also many envious interns. Too many. Te la montan fuerte. Aparte también hay muchas internas envidiosas, demasiado.

Yo no me la dejo montar. Yo también tengo mi carácter y yo también voy pa'lante. Y para bien, todos los días Rafa le voy a decir adiós. Cuando tú estás viviendo un proceso, you don't understand it. When you are going through a trial, you don't accept it. And much less when there is a purpose.

And I tell you from the bottom of my heart. In this whole episode, there was a process. The process went well in a trial. The trial went well, a test went well, the test went well, a purpose went well, and the purpose is there and I feel victorious. It was a lesson in life, so much so that I tell you not because it is in the chamber, nor that tomorrow an article comes out, a law, whatever they want in Colombia.

The notion of giving the exploitation to the whole nation was legalized.

And I have money to build the biggest brothel in Colombia, I do.

And not out of fear, but because I understood that I was born for great things. I understood that I fell. And I understood that my family didn't deserve, not even me, to go through all these things. And I don't regret what I didn't do? I don't regret what I did. As I told you, I came to a country that didn't give me the opportunity for anything.

Not because I speak English, not because I know how to do this, not because I know how to do that. I knocked on doors and all of them closed. At the time you arrived deported, right? Yes. Why? I asked for a voluntary deportation because I didn't want to wait any longer.

I was sentenced to 29 months for the crimes, well, it's called conspiracy, here it's a simple conviction. In the United States? In the United States. I can't let myself be taken away from the DA's office, the FBI, the CIA, or the police, and let myself be filled with pressure and nerves, and have to give you a finger. Hey, if you're in your own business, and you helped me, you were a good husband, you gave me everything, how was I going to give you?

I fell into a big conspiracy, and they wanted me to speak, but participation as such, zero. Participation as such, zero. My endowment does not speak that I had, they caught me with, nor that I had anything to do with that, with that operation, so to speak. But I paid, I paid with morals. I don't regret it. He was a person who gave me everything. He was a person who respected me,

my children, thanks to him, he got me through. And no, no, I didn't give up under any didn't give up. I didn't give up. That's why I paid. But not because they caught me with the as they said false.

You would never

be a lover again. Never. Never. No. Lily, thank you.

I'm glad I could finally interview you. Thank you for this opportunity.

Thank you for coming. Thank you very much. Thank you very much.

Thank you.