3AW hosts react to MORE revelations of Big Build corruption | 3AW Melbourne

60 Minutes last night, and the front page of The Age on Saturday, and the front page of The Age on Sunday.Moving into the front page of The Age today.I've got a feeling it's a big story, Mark.Ghetto still getting cut of taxpayers' big build cash.Now, if you watched 60 Minutes last night, there is three or four pages from Nick McKenzie and Lachlan Abbott covering the whole situation.A lot of this story in the paper today centres around payments going to Mick Gatto, that somebody, a whistleblower, has come out and given emails, receipts, invoices, that sort of stuff to Nick McKenzie and Lachlan Abbott.

and it is right through the papers today.

Yeah, a lot of it discusses the fact that, you know, the zero tolerance stance taken by the Labor government, but it's pointing to the fact that you still knew about it and didn't do anything about it.

I know I'm very much paraphrasing because there is a lot of...

There's so much.There's so much.But here's my question.If you're Big Mike Bush, right, the bloke who runs police in this state.Bushy with the slick back hair.If you were watching 60 Minutes last night and if you were aware of the front page of the papers on Saturday, Sunday and Monday, shouldn't he have called Nick McKenzie straight away and said, hey Nick, we need to have a coffee and by the way would you mind bringing some of that material you're basing all these articles off and the 60 minutes expose off would you bring them along for me to peruse place do you reckon that'd be difficult for him to do considering he's an appointment by the current government it doesn't matter he's the chief of police and you've got the premier of victoria saying

point all these matters to police.He goes on and on and on about it.Point this sort of stuff to police.Now, one of the great things that Nick McKenzie did was turn up at Jacinta's press conferences and ask her point blank, are you aware of any corruption in Victoria?Well, I want to see that happen one more time.because if if Jacinta Allen gets asked that question point -blank today or tomorrow and she says we've got to push all those matters to police if you've got any information if she doesn't just say yes there is corruption in Victoria but she's not going to say that mark but she has to but she has to now but why why would she say that Because if you don't admit there's a problem, Jim, you can't fix the problem.

You're using logic and irrationality.But at what stage has any politician, either side of the aisle, actually ever spoken in a microphone and admitted there's a problem?

Look, it's got to a point now.

I get where you're coming from, but do you actually think this will have an impact at all, where they'll probably - Yeah, it has to.It has to.Really?

Are you that optimistic about it?

Maybe I'm being a bit pessimistic.

I think we've got to a point in Victoria where now it is a stain, not just on Victoria, it's a stain on Australia, what is going on.It completes a horrible, horrible situation.And poor old Ben Carroll, who's sitting there watching on, I mean, This bloke has got to do something.I wouldn't say poor old Ben Carroll.Well, he's got to do something.Well, he does.

He actually, he has to grow a set.He won't.get organised, get the numbers and fix this situation.But here's the scary bit.If Ben Carroll does get rid of the element in Victoria that's taken over, right, which is the corruption element and bikey element and all the rest of it.If he does get the numbers and get, I mean, is then, is he targeted?

by the criminal element in Victoria.

I don't disagree with anything you're saying Marco, but what evidence points in the last, call it 20 years, where accountability is actually taken.I actually tell you, nothing will come of this.

That's impossible though.

Because we'll go to an election and nothing will come of it.But here's the point.And I'm not rooting for any side of politics.That's just what happens now.

Jacinta Allen has made it clear, if you've got any information, take it to police.Well, Mike Bush If you're not calling Nick McKenzie this morning and getting the details, and then doing something about it, then you're not doing your job either.

I'm sure Nick will take Pushy's call.

I mean, we've just had enough.We've had enough as Victorians, Jim.

But I don't think...

I know what you're saying.

I don't think a lot of Victorians have had enough.

I don't think her...I don't think Jacinta's popularity I mean, she's the most hated Premier in Australia.

Yeah, but they've got an overwhelming dominance in parliament.So the numbers say that people are okay with it.

Who's our governor?Is it Margaret Gardner?That's her name.I mean, what are you doing, Margaret?Are you going to ask any questions today, Maggie?No.

Mag, if you're listening, are you going to ask any questions today or are you just going to let this roll on and on and on and on?

Okay, well there's further allegations of corruption on the big bills.He was on 60 Minutes last night, investigative reporter for nine newspapers, which includes The Eight.Nick McKenzie, good morning.

Good morning.

I saw what you had to say on 60 Minutes last night.I find it amazing that the CFMEU at both federal and state level is under administration, so it's supposed to have nice people running it now and not doing anything naughty, but were you saying last night that in fact the CFMEU is still deeply involved in corrupt behaviour?

There's no doubt there's elements of the Victorian branch of the CFMEU that are still deeply involved in corrupt behaviour.There are people who have been booted out of the CFME in Victoria who are pulling the strings, who are deeply corrupt.Now, there are lots of good unionists in the union.There's some fresh blood and some good existing operators, but there is still significant corruption occurring.But the heart of what we reported last night and over the weekend is that the Labor government empowered the CFMEU and gave it the keys to the kingdom, if you will, when it allowed effectively to take over the big build.That's when Jacinda Ardern was the minister for the big build.

So we had a minister and a government empowering a corrupt union, and little surprise, what's the product?Well, you've had the biggest rorts across the big build, which are still going on today, thanks to this cartel -style arrangement between Labor, the CFMEU, and the gangland.

And is it true that multiple contractors have got Mick Gatto on their books?

Well, that's the byproduct of this cartel type arrangement.There are big build subcontractors, the people we are paying as taxpayers, who in turn pay Mick Gatto.And there's many of them and some of them are still paying Mick Gatto in 2028.So two years ago, there was a promised cleanup from Jacinta Allen.In 2026, the gangland, people like Mick Gatto, are still getting rich from the big build.So it tells us the cleanup that was promised simply hasn't worked.

Why are these companies paying Gatto?Well, I mean, quite extraordinarily, some of them went on the record, I think very brave, to say they pay or have paid Gatto to keep the CFMEU from kicking them off major projects.I mean, what a situation in Victoria on government projects, which your listeners are paying for.You've got to pay a gangland figure to allow you to access that project or stop you getting kicked off by corrupt elements of a union.

I know a couple of people who work on the big bills and I've said to both of them, like, is this stuff true?And they've said yes.I said, why don't you go public with it?They go, because we're too scared.Like it's not worth it, our houses could be threatened, our families could be threatened.So do you think there's a culture of fear, a culture of intimidation?

I think, I know.

It is a fact that the directors of construction companies have had their homes, family homes or their cars outside their homes set on fire in the last few months.It is a fact that people have been threatened.with serious assaults.It is a fact that machinery has been torched on construction sites.It is also a fact that most of this offending hasn't led to criminal charges.There's been a couple around extortions and fires, but the vast amount of violence and intimidation goes unchecked.

It's not because the police aren't doing the best they are, the best they can, but this stuff is, I mean, serious organised crime and it needs a serious and proper response.We've not had one in this state and so it continues unchecked.

Now, this I think is probably the biggest issue that's hurting the state government in the opinion polls, this and crime in general.Do you think Jacinta Allen, I'm just asking your opinion here, might eventually buckle and announce like give IBEC the powers it needs or tell the Auditor General to do an investigation or God forbid launch a Royal Commission, do you think that's possible?

Well every day Victorians wait, they want accountability, whether it's in the form of a Royal Commission or some proper investigation, which gangsters are getting the money, their money, taxpayers money, which politicians have allowed the system to go on.But every day that passes, it seems less likely Jacinta Allen will ensure that accountability takes place.Now, at what point does this refusal to have a proper investigative process amount to a cover -up?At what point does that become corruption in and of itself?The cover -up's always worse than the crime.I think what we're seeing is one of the most historic cover -ups in Victorian history.

There'll be a Royal Commission, one would suspect, at the end of the day, either Labor will move and do the right thing, and call one.It may not be Jacinda Ardern, it might be somebody else in Labor that pulls that lever, or there'll be a new government in November and they'll call a Royal Commission.That sort of thing, we can expect it to be coming in one form or another.And why?It's because the corruption and crime is so bad and everybody in this state knows it.

Final question.The last big leg of the big bills which is, well, still got many years of construction ahead of it, is the Suburban Rail Loop.I know the North East Link is not finished yet, but the Suburban Rail Loop is still closer to the start than the finish.Is the same sort of corruption occurring on that project as the other projects?

Absolutely.I was going down a major freeway in Melbourne last week and I just pulled my car aside now.Most Victorians won't do that.I'm a journalist, I did it, but Ireason why, there was large machinery and it was emblazoned with the logo of a company that's owned by a serious organised crime figure.He used to be in a bikie gang and he's notorious for paying bribes to get his machines onto projects.

Who does he bribe?He bribes, not the union, he bribes corrupt project superintendents from the T1 builders who are the partners of this Labor government building this stuff.It is still happening today.And again, people within the Big Build do know it.Of course, many honest people working on the Big Build, many honest companies, but there is still a share of organised crime in these major government projects.It's entrenched.

and it's going to take something extraordinary to remove it.

Victoria's big build or to put it more accurately, Victoria's big rort.If you saw 60 Minutes last night or read the reporting of Nick McKenzie across the weekend, you would have been left seething and rightly so.The reporting was confronting.Allegations of principal contractors involved in Big Build projects dealing in inappropriate conduct.Payments going to ganlang figures.Labor hire firms charging 25 % more than others and the government allowing it to happen.

And the alleged conduct of some contractors simply repugnant.Men obtaining sexual services from women in order to get lucrative jobs on Big Build sites.This is all happening under your Premier, our Premier, Jacinta Allen.In a state where debt is out of control and many Victorian families need to account for every dollar in their household budget, we have a Premier and a Government with a complete disregard for taxpayer dollars.Former Ombudsman Deborah Glass succinct in her assessment of the Victorian Government when it comes to big build projects.

What we're seeing isa government that decides to build a huge expensive hole in the ground and when it's digging that huge expensive hole it doesn't care what it costs, doesn't care what else is involved, it just keeps on digging.

Billions of dollars gone, wasted, never to be seen again under this government.And all for a you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours arrangement with unions, criminals and gangland figures.The conduct of bribery and corruption is reprehensible.The fact so much was undertaken with the knowledge of the Labor government is simply unforgivable.If members of the Labor caucus have any pride in their party, what it represents and truly want to prove to Victorians that this conduct is unacceptable, they should replace their leader tomorrow.They should call for a Royal Commission.

Surely it is untenable to back a leader who has overseen arguably the worst example of corruption in Victoria's history.Now as it stands right now, the only way a Royal Commission will occur, the only way we'll see real change on Victorian worksites is with a change of government.and as a Victorian it's ultimately in your hands come November.Are you shocked by what you've learned about corruption on big build sites?I'll be honest, I was sitting there watching 60 Minutes last night and I actually had to rewind it to make sure I didn't mishear what was being reported, to make sure I could fully fathom what was unfolding on big build sites in this state under the supervision of the Labor Government.Traditional Labor voters, does it erode any faith you still have in the party?

I should say we reached out to the Premier, we got no reply, full stop.Shouldn't really be that surprised.Joining me on the line now is James Newbury, he's the Shadow Attorney -General.James, good afternoon.How are you going?I've been better after seeing the reports and the 60 Minutes report last night.

Would the Liberal Party call a Royal Commission into what's unfolded on the big build sites?

If people vote Liberal in November, you get a Royal Commission and you get to clean up this state.Can I say I agree with you except one thing?I don't think this is just the worst corruption we've seen in this state's history.I think this is the worst corruption Australia has ever seen on government projects.Not only did the Premier know about what was occurring on the sites, Since we've all become aware of it, we all know what's been going on because it's been reported, as you said, the government has chosen to continue to close their eyes to it.So your money, my money, our money is going to outright corruption, outright crime.

It is one of the most shameful instances, I think, in our state's history.

So James, you're voted in come November, your party, you call Royal Commission.tick.What do you do about the big build sites though at the moment?Things like the North East Link and the Suburban Rail Link.What do you do about those big build sites at the moment where this corruption and scandal is occurring?Do you halt the projects?

No, I think you need to immediately look at what is occurring.So you immediately need to understand what's occurring and weed anything out.But you, as we just said, also have a Royal Commission, which will be a tough, serious Royal Commission.so it's both fronts.So you need to be looking at every single dollar that's being spent, and the Royal Commission effectively is looking at what has been spent.But you're right, you need to, on minute one, not minute two, minute one, be looking at every dollar, every dollar, and you have to do it in a forensic way.

You need to make sure that everything that is going wrong stops, because I think Victorians are jack of it, they're sick of it.You know, the idea that we're just allowing corruption to occur and paying for it, I think is shameful, as I said earlier.

So James, do you think there is the possibility, though, that you would have to shut down big build sites come November in order to investigate the corruption and weed it out of these sites in order to ensure that it doesn't continue happening on what would then be your watch?

I do not believe that you will have to shut down these sites.I can tell you, I can put a warning out now.And I think that everybody should hear this one.Every single person that is misusing a taxpayer dollar should hear the warning from the Liberal Party right now.We are going to make sure we get you.We are going to get very tough.

We are going to make sure that not just criminals account for their behavior, but we want to make sure that former ministers, former premiers, are held to account for their behaviour.So we're going to see, I suspect, former premiers dragged before a royal commission and let's find out what they knew, what decisions they made and why, because they need to explain it to Victorian people, because this is taxpayers' dollars at the end of the day.

We're still five months out from the state election.Should Jacinta Allen resign now?

I think she should have resigned a long time ago.I think she's the worst Premier our state's ever seen and I work you know very closely as you would have seen with Daniel Andrews.Daniel Andrews is really really bad butJacinda Allen is incompetent as well.So I think that she has overseen the worst instance of corruption in our country's history.She's appalling.

You know, I think for me, the turning point with her was when the 15 billion was alleged and she simply said, I don't want to know, I don't want to do anything about it.I don't want to investigate it.I don't want to have anything to do with it.I think at that point I said, in my mind, she's the worst.She's the worst we've ever had because it is a knowing decision that she said, I don't want to have anything to do with it.But Victorians can know confidently, not only after November, if we're successful, will we have a Royal Commission, but it will be extremely tough.

we will make sure we chase down every dollar and we will chase down every crook.

The claims of scandal and corruption seem absolutely unprecedented here in Victoria on our Big Build site.So how does it compare to other issues around corruption that we have seen in this state?Just how serious is it and what does it mean for the future of this government and the future of the Premier Jacinta Allen?Joining me on the line now is former 3AW Mornings host, you hear him still regularly here on 3AW, Neil Mitchell, good afternoon.Shane and the winner is The Big Build.Easily the worst.

Were you surprised by what was reported across the weekend and on 60 Minutes last night, or were you like, no, I'm really not that surprised?

No, I wasn't surprised.What did surprise me is they had the evidence and they had a lot of inside information about what's been going on.I think there's been whispers around about this for years, and more than whispers, for two years The Age and Channel Nine have been saying this is happening, despite what the Premier says.Go back 36 years, Shane.I've had a look at them.There's one in the mid -60s, which is sort of a land deals controversy.

but the next biggest was a thing called Tri -Continental, which was the merchant arm of the then State Bank of Victoria, which was a taxpayer organisation.It crashed with a cost of about $1 .7 billion, which is about $5 billion in these days, and the state bank had to be sold because of it.John Cain, the Labor Premier, had to resign.Joan Kerner took over.The Labor Party itself called a Royal Commission into it.We're talking about the equivalent of $5 billion.

Now, we're talking about a lot more here with a Labor government, and they're not going to call a Royal Commission.

Do you think her reasoning for not calling a Royal Commission is because it would cost too much?Or do you think it's...Thank you.Is it to save face?

She was a minister at the time.She's the Premier now.And what about today?She kept saying...Well, she said all along there's no evidence of anything, which is just nonsense.But there's no evidence that any of these big consortiums were told by the government to cave into the CFMU.

Or no evidence...No evidence, she kept saying.No evidence from her, came from her office.No evidence.Well, might be no evidence, but did it happen?There's just no evidence because they were too clever.

We're talking about, well the allegation is we're talking about them being told to deal with the CFMEU which put up prices 22 % and we paid for it.The integrity officers, former integrity officers believe it.Deb Glass, former ombudsman, great operator.Robert Redley, former head of IBAC, great operator.Are they making it all up?Are they inventing it?

Come on.

So then, where do we go from here Neil?I mentioned off the top that Victorians have the chance to change this and get a Royal Commission at the next election, which is in November.But do you suspect that she could resign or do you think there is still a chance she could be rolled by her Labor colleagues?Well, we need a full audit of everything, we need a pause on everything, yeah.

The way the Labor Party, I think she, I'll be surprised if she lasts to the election, put it that way.It's even, it seems, you know, it's even as if I'm...

Through her own means or because of her colleagues rolling her?

Well, that's where it gets complex.But, but, but there's this, perhaps Ben Carroll even got a sense of what was going on.This is speculation, not information.And said, oh, well, I'll let her wear all that and then I'll come in and take over.And I haven't got that baggage with me. I'll come in and pause the SRL and call the Royal Commission and have a full audit.The, the complication is, If he challenges under Labor Party rules, if he challenges and she stands firm so that you've got two people challenging, well it's going to take a couple of months to sort out because the Labor Party members have to vote and in the meantime neither can act as leader.

So you've got to stand in Premier.Now that's impossible.You couldn't have that leading into a state election.The only way it can happen is if she agrees to stand down and he takes over unopposed.That is the only way it can happen.And it could, because she must realise she's likely to lose her seat.

What's the point in standing for the election, lose her seat and Ben becomes Leader anyway, whether it's Opposition Leader or Premier.Will she do it?I think it would be the decent thing.Will she do it?Who would know?She hasn't reacted with great... political decency in my view.

One of the angles of the story last night, it was terrific reporting from Nick McKenzie and credit where it's due, but that she's given the IBAC new powers and new measures to trace the money from the big build to people like Mick Gatto, but these measures don't come into effect until the end of 2027, when in all likelihood she'll be long gone anyway.

That's right.Well, but the same applies to the Royal Commission.If they called the Royal Commission now, it's not going to report before the election, no matter what you do.So you're sort of stuck with this uncertainty, and that's ridiculous because it's almost exactly two years ago the Age first started publishing this detail, and they've been straight batting it for two years.In fact, they've been doing it for a decade.for two years around it.

I heard Jane Hume say this morning that the work on the big build sites should stop immediately.Do you agree with that?

Yes, I do.And I know the Premier has politicised it and she said, oh, this is all about the Liberals costing jobs.That's all they want to do.They want to cost jobs.Well, what's the option that we keep paying ridiculous amounts of public money?Of course, it would be awful the number of people who would be stood down.

and have to go and find other work.Or maybe there's a way of easing that, I don't know.But I don't see an option other than pausing what, maybe not the whole thing.Maybe you pause what can be done, what can be paused, what hasn't been done.I mean, there's certain work underway that probably has to be completed to be safe anyway.So you're not going to stand down everybody.

But I don't see an option to that pause, sadly.It's tough.The Labor Party's got people into this position.

Before I let you go, as I said, you've seen premiers come and go over a mighty long time.If you were to put money on it today, do you suggest she does not lead the Labor Party to the November election?What are the odds?What odds for me?For me or from a bookie?

No, I don't know.Look, she probably will be.I think it's possible she could stand down.I think it's possible she'll go.It depends how badly the polls react to this.It depends how nervous the people in the party are, and they will be.

And it depends how assertive Ben Carroll was.A lot of people I know within the parliamentary party were very annoyed with him last time that he didn't run last month.Do colleagues need to put pressure on her?

Instead of just forming a line behind her and nodding along with everything that she says, put a little bit of pressure on the Premier to go, hold on, we can't all stand united at the moment and for the good of you and for the good of us, to save at least some seats come November, for goodness sake, resign and we'll put someone else in.

It's interesting you say that.There's been a tradition in the Labor Party of clear -headed peopledo support premiers or leaders doing exactly that.Go and tap them on the shoulder and say, mate, I've supported you, but it's over.It's over.You've got to go.

I don't see any such clear -headed people.I think they've all been drinking the Kool -Aid, or most of them.And I think that they're sort of still living in the era of Dan, where if you were brave enough to put your head up and say what you believed, your head was on the floor.It rolled off.

Neil, appreciate your time, as always.

Thank you, Shane.