A Conversation With Ariel Fulmer

Hi, I'm Ned Fulmer. Three years ago, I cheated on my wife with my producer. It became a massive public scandal that caused a lot of pain to a lot of people. I know that I represented myself as a kind of wife guy

who talked about his relationship and

put that out there for public consumption.

And you, as a viewer, I know that you, I broke your trust.

I betrayed my spouse, coworkers, friends, family, and I betrayed my spouse, co-workers, friends, family,

and I betrayed you. And I know it's not just about cheating, that I was a company owner and having a relationship with a producer who was engaged and friends with all of our friends and co-workers. It was understandably a messy and And I was the cause of it. I did that.

And I can't change it. I can't it and accept it and try to change how I show up differently in the future. So I wanted to say that I'm sorry. I hurt you and I hope to make amends over time. And one step is to publicly witness the pain of my partner, Ariel. This is a conversation with Ariel in this video.

It's painful at times. It's honest, vulnerable, brutal. But it's necessary for her to move forward and I'm grateful for the chance to witness it. As disappointed as we were that something so private and painful became such a public spectacle. I get why people were so outraged, and I understand that that is the reason that she can't move forward with any sort of public thing without addressing this. So this is that.

This is a conversation where we answer your questions. We share what we've been up to these last three years and what you can expect from us moving forward. It's about an hour long. And I know that from my perspective, I wanna tell stories of curiosity and empathy, and I want them to be meaningful

and have value in people's lives. So I hope that you find this impactful. So please join me for this conversation with Ariel Fulmer.

♪♪♪ this conversation with Ariel Fulmer.

Well, here we are. Back again. It feels weird. It feels a little awkward.

Yeah. Back in a podcasting room. Yeah.

I mean, we've certainly had a lot of conversations where we've sat like this.

Yeah, that's true.

But not, you know, conversations that are meant for the public.

Is it strange to think that people are watching this and listening to it rather than just being in like a therapy setting?

Oh, heck yeah.

Yeah. It's absolutely, yeah, I mean I'm like, I'm on the verge of like standing up and walking out of this room, absolutely.

Same.

I'm like what the hell am I doing? What am I doing? What am I doing? But no, I, this is, I feel like this is a, I feel like this is a necessary thing.

Yeah, we've kind of been just keeping our lives very private for the last three years. We have. And just almost hiding from the world.

We've been hiding. We've been hiding from the world. And I'm not gonna lie, it's been kinda great. It's been kinda great to be super private.

And it's ironic because we don't stop becoming recognizable figures. People still come up to us. People still recognize us. And to the extent that we're kind of moving forward in our lives, that's something that you've

talked about. It's like. How can you. How can I move forward in my life without people knowing the next part of my story if they're still stuck on the 2022 part of my story?

That's kind of the thing, isn't it? And that's the whole reason that we're here, because we're stuck in 2022. Yeah, at least as far as they know. Exactly. We have moved on with our lives.

Yeah, we've moved on for a while now.

We have moved on with our lives. But as far as everybody else is concerned, we're still stuck in 2022. And that brings us to the whole reason that we're still stuck in 2022. And, you know, that brings us to the whole reason that we're here and the reason that we can't walk out of this room because we live in a social world, right?

And we can't move on with our lives if we don't, you know, move on publicly.

Publicly reestablish the context of who we are,

how we relate to each other after being so public with our relationship before.

Yeah.

It's a really strange thing, actually, that we can't do anything publicly without kind of addressing this first.

Well, yeah, I mean. In in twenty twenty two, it's sort of it got so big, right? The whole scandal, it just it it it grew and grew and grew and grew to the point where it it it just became this this thing that just like got so much bigger than us. Yeah. And I feel like I just sort of I just sort of hid away from it you know? Same. And going going completely dark was the only thing that I could think to do. And for the last three years, I've just hidden behind the scandal, you know?

And I now like now I can't get out from behind it.

Yeah, because it's a big step to like sit down and do what we're doing and to talk about it.

Right, but even like going out in public with like my kids or just going out to dinner or something like that, I feel like the only thing that people see is the scandal. Yeah, that's a big loss. It's it's a big loss but it's also it's also it's a really strange way to go about your your normal life. You

know like I am a human who has needs like I I want to have regular friends and I don't want to to like walk up to somebody that I want to have regular friends and I don't want to like walk up to somebody that I want to be friends with at like preschool and have to start every conversation with like, my personal life is a dumpster fire, as I'm sure you know, but also do you wanna be friends with me?

You know, like, I'm not gonna lie, I have some really authentic friendships that have started that way. But, like, I don't want to go about my life starting friendships like that.

Yeah, you kind of want the new friends to know the context of who you currently are.

Yes, exactly, exactly. I remember I have met some people, I want the new friends to know the context of who you currently are as a person.

Yes, exactly.

I remember I've met some people, made new friends, or introduced myself to strangers. It's like, oh, let's exchange Instagrams. I'm like, well, here's mine, but a couple of caveats. One, I have a lot more followers than you might expect. Two, all of this is pretty outdated. And three, don't Google me.

Don't Google me.

Don't Google me.

You probably don't want to Google me.

Just get to know me first.

Yeah.

Oh my goodness. You really, you don't want to be just sort of seen as the sum of your mistakes for me or the sum of your past for you. Right. And the challenging thing is it's been complicated for a while.

I mean we are still friends. We have children together. We go on trips together. Right. Like, you know, there's a spectrum of being together and not together. Right. Like, you know, there's a spectrum of being together, not together.

Right.

Like there's ways in which we're together, but it's like the way that everyone wants to know, like are you guys still like an item? Are you guys still a couple? Like no. We really haven't been at all

this last three years.

No, we haven't.

There's moments when we kind of tried, but just because you go to a Taylor Swift concert together doesn't mean that you're, you know, that all is forgiven.

No, like people ask me, like, do you forgive Ned for what he did? And I mean, the answer is no, absolutely not. How can you forgive somebody for, like, for lying to you for for cheating on you no fuck no like like i i don't even i it's I, you know, I, sorry, I saw red for a minute. It's like, no, the answer is no. But also I feel like forgiveness isn't the goal

at this point. You know, I, we've been together for a long time and you are the father of my two beautiful children and we know each other really well and I, you know, we've worked through a lot of stuff. And the fact that I can be around you and still like have a good time and like enjoy spending time with you and enjoy spending time with my kids.

Like, I think that's a win.

Yeah. It's taken a lot of hard work to do that.

Yeah.

It's kind of, as we've adjusted, we've recalibrated our relationship more towards a platonic friendship and then, you know, it's just been challenging. But like, I think we're getting to a point of sort of celebrating that and really like, embracing it and accepting it for what it is as we are grieving the past. And it's hard to hear you saying like, fuck no, I don't forgive you. Of course I get it.

I mean, I can. You're still as much progress as we've had. You're still very angry.

Yeah, of course I'm angry. We're talking about not having sat in this position for for three years you know and like yeah of course I'm still angry we lost a lot there there was a lot that happened three years ago. It was, I mean, I found out about your affair from the fans. I mean, and I was like my brain couldn't compute. And I, it's like for some reason I didn't see what was actually there in the picture.

I thought it was your sister. And I remember sending it to you and being like, what's your sister doing in New York? It was, I think back on that and I think like, what was I, like how did I not see what was going on? Like what, what was so fucked up in my brain

that I couldn't actually see what was happening in this picture? Like the picture was right there in front of me. You know? And then the pieces just started falling and falling and falling. And then more pictures started coming in and more pictures and more pictures and more pictures.

And it is so wild how we live in this world where everything is so public. You don't realize it, but everybody's taking pictures of you, everywhere you go. And it's kind of scary, actually. And it makes you realize that whenever you leave your house,

you're like, you leave your house, you're like, you're not safe. And it kind of like, and then after everything happened, I sort of went into this weird state where nothing was safe. And nothing and nobody, I couldn't trust anybody. I couldn't trust the public. I couldn't trust my friends. I just stayed inside because there were cameras everywhere. I was so unsafe. Everything was unsafe.

Yeah, it took a long time to like get back to myself. How did having it become such a public scandal kind of change everything for you? Did it make it worse? Did it make it easier? Did it just sort of make it surreal?

It was so many different things. And it was all tied in together too. I think that, and it all, it's like the trauma of discovering that you've been, that everything that you know isn't real.

And then add to it this other part where you're sort of being, you're being, you're being watched by cameras, which isn't something that's like a part of our lives. Like, yes, we are somewhat public figures,

but like we've never had cameras waiting outside of our house. Like that's not something that we're used to. Like we're not like celebrities. That's not a part of our lives. And this was a period in our lives where we had like, there was like a car following us.

And it was really strange because we had, because we had just, you know just found out that we were dealing with this cheating situation, with this betrayal, we decided to find a new couples therapist, right? And so we were driving to our new couples therapist, right? And so we were driving to our new couples therapist and so we were in the car together because we decided to drive together

and you decided you needed a snack. And so you had like a, you had a Tupperware with you and I had my jug of water and we got in the car together because we were like, well, why don't we drive together? We're going to the same place. And so we get in the car and we were driving there and so you're like eating your apple as you're driving. And I turned to you and I was like, Ned, I think there's

a car following us. Like I'm pretty sure that there's this, I'm pretty sure this car has followed us from our house. You're like, oh, that's weird. Like, I wonder what that could be, you know? And then when we park outside of the couple's therapist's office, and we see that this car has a camera, I was like, I think that that person

just took a picture of us. And so we went inside and we talked about it a little bit and then we had our therapy session and then we came out and then there were multiple people outside. And it was the, probably one of the strangest situations that I personally have ever been in.

I did not know what to do with my face. And so my reaction, when I don't know what to do with my face is I smile. That is my go-to reaction when I don't know what to do with my face. I just smile like an idiot.

That's my reaction too.

I smile like, like I, you know, like a cat, you know, I just smile. And so this is the video that everyone saw.

And leaving couples therapy,

we're leaving couples therapy, looking at each other like we don't have a care in the world. And it is because we are absolutely just beyond, like, this is so bizarre. What is happening right now? This has never happened in our lives ever.

We don't know what's going on. Like, let's just get to our car, you know, we're just like, just smile, just smile. Like, like, they're not going to hurt us. Who are these people? Everything's fine. Um, oh my goodness. Yeah. It was, that was the strangest situation. It was so bizarre.

It was so bizarre.

I remember our neighbors during that time were doing some roof repair work. And so there was this like,

there's like a construction van.

Unmarked white van outside of our house and it was parked there for like weeks. And we had it in our heads that it was a paparazzi van. And.

It absolutely was not. But it was like the strangest thing I thought.

But just, you know, for weeks, anytime you walk out the door being like, there's a van.

Yeah.

That was really, that was really strange.

I can see did that caused you to experience that. Yeah. What was that moment like when everything changed for you?

Awful, obviously. It was kind of surreal. You know, I thought to myself, like what would somebody who's been cheated on, what would somebody in a movie do?

Really?

I don't know, I wasn't like of a specific movie or something like that. I was thinking like, what what would like, what do people do in this situation? You know, like, I wasn't thinking of I wasn't thinking for myself I wasn't thinking for myself. I was thinking like, like what do I do next? I remember we were in New York and you were just picking up from the airport and I was so like naively, so you

were driving a rental and I just naively looked over to you in the driver's seat and I was like, why was Grace in New York? Like I didn't realize Grace was in New York. Why was she, you know, referring to that picture that I had sent to you. And you looked over at me with this look on your face

and it was like the veil just fell like this. You know, like I knew in my brain that something was going on, but I just sort of refused to believe it. And then when I saw that like, just wildly guilty look on your face,

like you wanted to tell me something. And I didn't even let you say anything. And I was like, turn this car around. You don't remember that?

No, I don't remember it happening like that, but it doesn't matter.

How do you remember it happening?

Oh, I mean, you asked me a couple of different follow up questions as I just sort of answered them. And then, you know, once you really, once I, you know, answered it in such a way that you knew exactly who it was and what had happened, yeah, then you were like, take me back to the airport. Yeah, that part was very cinematic. If you're trying to be like in a movie. Turn this fucking car around. I mean, yeah.

I think there is a lot of sort of delusions and rationalizations that you as the person doing that sort of are telling yourself as to why it's not so bad or why it's gonna be okay or why actually this talked about in this way. And then it's like, I remember that moment, it all just kind of like fell down where I could see how devastated

and just completely traumatized you were. And then it was just like, oh, everything changed for me as well. I'm like, oh no, this is, like I've been hurting this person that I love this whole time.

You didn't realize until then?

Well, you know, but then there's other things you tell yourself to kind of sort of compartmentalize, I guess.

Interesting.

It's sort of a, you know, it's like a, like a addictive cycle kind of, feeling really guilty and ashamed and then telling yourself the ways in which it's, you know, kind of just lying to yourself.

And then, yeah. And I did want to tell you, and there was probably a small part of me that was sort of relieved to not be keeping a secret, I guess. Is that hard for you to hear? No, no, that part's not hard for me to hear.

I think it's, you know, I've done a lot with other betrayed partners over the last three years. And it's something that I've heard a lot. This idea of like, when there's this sense of relief when the partner who's doing the betraying is able to finally tell the betrayed partner that about all the things that they have been doing and kind of put their shame onto the other partner.

They, in that like sort of release of their,

of their like, of all of that, all of that like, yeah, shame and guilt that they've been holding. It's almost like they feel so much relief, but the partner then has to accept it. And that's exactly what happened. You know, when you told me, suddenly then,

I had to take all of that guilt and shame of your affair. And it was so much to carry. So much. And I know that, like, and, you know, suddenly something that like you had, and like the wild thing is that this was something that you had done, you know? Like I had no part in this. This was not like, you could even say that you had done this to me.

You know? Like I, I was the victim of this situation. And yet, when you told me, I had to like accept your,

And in our like society where couples are, especially married couples, like when men have affairs, women are often looked at as like, well, what did you do wrong? And it is so hard to get out from under that

of like, well, what did you do to make him look elsewhere? You know, were you not a good enough wife? Were you not, did you not make him happy enough? And there's so, so much shame there.

And I just, I'm so, I'm so tired of holding that.

I'm so tired of holding it. How does it make you feel to hear that? I mean, did it ever occur to you that like, that like, not only did you, not only did you having an affair, just it shattered our marriage,

but it also,

all of that guilt and shame, you hoisted that on me. You gave that to me. Now I have to carry that around for the rest of my life.

I don't think it's fair that as a society you're put in that position. It's certainly not true. And no, it's not something that I imagined as I was doing that. I think none of it was. If you really let it sink in

just how much you're hurting your partner and how devastating it is, like how could you do that? It's still very difficult now, even three years later to see you in pain as you're talking about that.

Because there's nothing I can do to change the past or to help.

It's kind of weird to think about it now because I, I feel like I'm in a really good place now and going back to like, before I discovered the affair, it feels like going back to this weird fantasy world

where,

where like,

I don't know, I thought we had this, this love that transcended,

I don't know. But it was a fantasy. It was like, I trusted you so completely.

And I mean, we grew up together. We got married when we were like in our early 20s. We were babies. We had nothing.

I mean, we moved out to LA with just our car full of stuff.

I mean, I'm like tearing up just thinking about it. We were just kids. And it's like it really was a fantasy and I think I just think how could you do that to me

like who are you?

I'm... so sorry. I...

Like, we had so much. There was so... There was so much. There was so, there was so much. We had so much life left. We still have so much life left. I don't know why I'm crying.

I think it's like the loss of that dream that we both had. It felt like that in that time period for me too.

What happened? Well...

The dream started to break apart for me and... then rather than being able to talk about it or to confront those feelings, I wanted to, I guess I was too afraid to say how I was actually feeling. And it seemed, I don't know. I chose to deal with it and deal with like feelings

I was experiencing in a way that was really self-destructive and hurtful to you. And it wasn't like anything you did or like we had a bad marriage. It was about me and choices that I made and

just actions that I took that I'll always regret. I'll always regret how much pain I caused you and other people. You know? And and other people, you know. And I'm deeply, deeply sorry. And I'll spend my whole rest of my life trying to make amends to you

and to, you you and show up differently to lead a life of integrity and to be a father that our children can learn from. Because you did nothing to deserve this. And I completely suddenly violently shattered our marriage, our relationship and like everything you knew.

And, and that was all my fault. I just all, all choices that I made.

So where do we go from here? I mean, that's kind of how we've been, what we've been working on, I guess, over the last three years. We can make new promises to each other as friends, as co-parents. What was the thing that kind of started changing things for you?

Maybe just time. Time and courage. And I mentioned making those authentic relationships, like finding those, those real friends. And they're like, I don't care that your life is messy. I really like you for who you are.

I see your joy. I like every part of you. And I, I want to be a part of your life. Like don't, don't push me away.

It was a real moment of kind of discovering who your real true authentic friends are and kind of then cherishing that. And those people that you can kind of be completely yourself with.

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

And not just seeing a one-dimensional version of you.

Yeah, totally.

When did things start to feel a little more safe for you?

I think, I think as I just got more comfortable talking to people about what happened, and they just seemed to not care.

Yeah.

You know? It just wasn't a big deal.

It is kind of funny. It's like the whole, you know, internet and people making TikTok seem to care so much. And then you meet anyone in real life and it's like everyone has some way to relate to some sort of a cheating story.

Just like all the parents at Wes's school or, you know, they're like, either they don't know or they don't give a flying fuck. They're like, yeah, who cares? You know, they're like, it's one of many scandals. Like, also it was three years ago.

Like, get over yourself. Yeah.

Like that's kind of how I feel. They're like, they're sort of like,

Right. Cause when you're in the school environment, like there's a bunch of different types of families and parents and some people are together, some people aren't. And I'm sure every marriage or relationship has a story as to how it breaks down.

It just gives you so much perspective. It gives you so much perspective to just be in a group of people where nobody cares. And it just, it gives you, honestly, I think that is what gives me the courage to just be like, you know what?

It's okay. I'm gonna be okay. I'm gonna be okay. Like, I can live in a world where this has happened and people know and also we've moved on.

You know?

Right.

Like I can go on dates and not have people be whispering about me. I don't know. I just imagine a world where I can just be myself

and not have this thing following me around. in a world where I can just be myself and not have this thing following me around.

You know, where I don't have to, I don't have to, like, where maybe we are at a restaurant with our kids and I don't have to feel shame because I'm like, you know, having fun. You know, where people are like, oh my God, are they back together?

Just because I'm like having a joyful time with my kids and my ex-husband, you know? Like, is that a crime? To feel joy? Like.

Can I live?

Can I live? You know?

Let them.

Let them.

Let them. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, I mean, we're going to Greece together next week.

Right.

It's like, life is weird sometimes.

Yes, like we,, like we travel together. It's, we have a, we have a, like a familial relationship.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's, we've like redefined our relationship not as partners that romantic partners, yeah, it was sort of like, you know family or platonic partners and pals Do you want to say pals? I? Feel the same way that it was kind of the social communities in School or wherever you are that you kind of just start to feel less alone.

Yeah.

Somebody that's your friend, or like another couple that you're friends with, just can say like, you know, like it was shitty what you did. And also, everyone goes through hard times and you move forward the best you can.

And whether you are together or not, or sort of together, friendly, but not romantically, like however you wanna live your life as your family moving forward, that's like your business.

Right.

Yeah.

And at the same time, people looking on the outside can kind of feel that nonchalance and on the inside it's like, what I did to you is one of the most devastating things I think that a person can experience. Like I kind of, I understand why broadly speaking these like scandals are such ignition points

because it's a lot of people can relate to it and a lot of people feel so much, so much pain around it.

And it can be both.

It can be both, yeah.

And it can be both at the same time, it can be both at different times. And it can be one thing one day and it can be one thing one day and something different another day. I have some days when I hate your guts and there are other days when I enjoy your company

more than not. And that's okay.

It can be both.

It can be both.

You know, some days are really sad because I feel the loss. But other days I feel a lot of gratitude and joy for where we're at now. Especially, I mean, our kids are awesome.

Yeah, they are.

And I mean, they're worth every cent we've spent on therapy.

Yeah, yeah, because I mean, that's like a big reason why we're working so hard to rebuild.

I don't even know if I call it, if I would call it rebuilding. I think we're building something new.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. I think you have to feel like that. The past is no longer.

Oh, I burned that.

Burned that shit to the ground.

I'm kidding.

Don't worry. It's very strange living and having a marriage while also having that be so like public facing. Did you ever feel that, that there was these like layers of like the public facing you versus the real you?

Yes. And that was, that was always a struggle for me because I felt like I wanted to, like I wanted the two to be the same. You know, I, I, I always wanted to be one whole person.

And, I always wanted to be one whole person. And I didn't want to be like an actor on camera and then another person in my real life. And that's the funny thing about like being a YouTuber or being an influencer is People expect you to be one person In your real life and on the internet and then when When you're not That then it's like, well, you're lying. But I don't know,

what do you think? Yeah. Well, it's ironic because at the same time, I think what the internet wants from you is to be a one-dimensional character.

How so?

Well, you know, if you, I think, you know, there's, if you make TikToks as like a certain persona or doing a certain joke, if you deviate from that joke, oftentimes your engagement will plummet.

Like people kind of want to like just see, it's like, oh, this is, it's like, you're a stereotype. You People kind of want to just see, it's like, oh, this is, it's like you're a stereotype. You're kind of like that person, and then you, and I guess I noticed that in my own work. It's like the things that consistently drew people in were adorable family posts or talking about my wife,

and then producers lean into that and like craft situations for me. And I don't know, over time it felt super pigeonholed and just like I had to fulfill this one like quadrant in a foursome to just be this like, you know,

kind of a caricature. You were like put in a box?

Yeah, I think it's very hard to like be a full person with nuance on the internet. There's always sort of a performance layer.

So what are you gonna do now that you're back on the internet?

That's a great question. I, for a long time, didn't wanna return to the internet. So I didn't see a way of... I didn't want to be myself. I didn't want to make anything. I didn't feel creative. And as time has moved on, I have a desire to create and to tell stories, but I don't really want it to be about myself as a character or myself or my relationship or my personal life.

You know, I've always been drawn to things that make people curious and finding ways of connecting people with their interests. And so I came up with the, I don't know, I see myself more as like a host and more as just a vehicle for other people's stories.

And I don't know, maybe I can, because of what I've gone through and my past,

like connect with people and empathize with people. because of what I've gone through and my past, like connect with people and empathize with people.

What? I don't know.

You think you're interesting enough?

No, I don't.

You think other people?

I think other people would be interesting. And then that's regardless of whether I think I'm, I don't want to talk about my personal life or my family. Like I want to keep our children out of the spotlight. I keep our dating lives private. Like it's not a good idea to,

for my mental health at least, but I think also in general, to sort of make your whole life your brand. I want to make stuff that helps people learn things, make stuff that helps people empathize with others. The idea behind the podcast is to tell stories

of other people's challenging times and how they overcame them. Because if there's one thing I noticed is that people really seem to care about the train wreck that I caused.

Would you say that that was your rock bottom?

Have you hit your rock bottom? Or do you think?

I hope so, yeah. Yeah, I would say my rock bottom was... It's funny, in the car there was still a part of me that thought, you know, maybe, you know, because we'd been doing therapy, like we kind of had talked about a variety of things. Rock bottom was, you know, being in a, I think the moment for me is you sent me a text that night that was like, I don't think we can get past this.

And it's just sort of like my whole world crashed. I was like, oh, right. What I did wasn't like we in our boundaries or in any sort of, like what I did was unforgivable and there's no hope. I don't think I slept that night.

I remember writing you a long letter and it was ironic, that weekend I was at a wedding and they like played our wedding song as their dance. It was like black tie, everyone's very fancy. I was just like stepping away to cry every 20 minutes. Well, we only have a couple more minutes.

I know we could keep on talking, maybe we will, but.

Are there any last minute questions we need to address before...

Are we together?

We are not together. We live separately. We are devoted co-parents to our two beautiful, beautiful children. Wes, who is seven, and Finn, who is almost five.

Are we dating other people?

I mean, I'm open to dating other people. I mean, yes, yes, we are dating other people.

Yeah.

Will you ever be returning to some of your past work?

What kind of work?

Like your old podcast.

No, no, I don't think so. No, I'm grateful for my time there, but no, I think that era is over.

So what's next for you? I know that you're a creative person, that you've been doing a bunch throughout your career, and it's kind of like, it must be exciting to kind of be like a solo artist

Yeah, I mean, these last three years have given me a lot of time to like, kind of express what I love. And I've gone back to pottery, which is something that I was really into in college. I started out as just something that I wanted to do just to, like, I don't know,

kind of center myself as like a hobby. But I've gotten really into it. And I've been spending a lot of time in my own studio. And I'm starting up my own business.

I know, I know.

Yeah, and we'll see where it takes me, yeah.

Do you think you're gonna be like a public, like do you wanna continue being an influencer?

Probably not. Probably not. I, for a couple of reasons, I, you know, I, I, I mean, the first reason is that I really enjoy just making stuff, just making stuff in my studio by myself. You know, I know that like, that that sounds so silly, you know, but I love just going into my pottery studio

and just sitting at my wheel and getting so dirty and not filming it and just doing what I want to do and making mistakes and just making sometimes making really shitty stuff and not having to tell anyone about it, you know? And the second reason is that I feel like sometimes, and we don't have to put this part in, but it is a valid reason.

I feel like sometimes people who are on the internet, there is another standard of beauty for people who are on the internet. And I don't wanna hold myself to that standard anymore. I want, I'm gonna be 40 this year, and I want to look at myself in the mirror and I wanna say, fuck yeah. I I want to look at myself in the mirror and I want to say,

fuck yeah. I don't want to look at myself in the mirror and be like, oh my god, are people going to notice that I don't look like I'm 30 anymore? Are people going to think that I look old? Are people going to think that this is bad or this is bad as this is bad I love looking in the mirror and being like you know what I look great you know yeah like good enough is good enough it's a refreshing place to be it's so great it's so great to be like I look awesome yeah I I don't want to look in the mirror and be like I don't look good enough I don't wanna look in the mirror and be like, I don't look good enough.

I don't love that place. And I think that being a public person that you sort of have to look at yourself that way, Or at least that was my experience and I choose not to do that.

Yeah, that's awesome. For me, I also love creating and instead of making pottery, I like making media. So there is this sort of inherent like if I'm going to be in it, yeah, you have to kind of think about what you're saying, what you look like and it can be hard but I'm happy for you.

Thanks. What can I do as a co-parent and a friend to continue supporting you and to be? I mean, what do you want from me going forward?

Just be authentic. Just be authentic with your audience.

Like what are your hopes and dreams for the future?

I just generally want to be the person that I genuinely believe that I am. You know? Yeah. I feel like for a long time, I've wanted to be one person, but I've lived the life of a person

who isn't that person. And I'd like for those two things to be the same. Same. Yeah, and I'd like for those two things to be the same. Same. Yeah, and.

What do you hope for the two of us?

I just want each of us to grow in the way that makes each of us happy. You know? I want you to be who you are and I want me to be who I am and I want for you to feel like you can be who you are and I want you to, you know,

feel like you can do that without judgment. I want the same for myself. Yeah, I feel the same way.

I think that by kind of moving forward more as individuals, we'll each be able to kind of be the best version of ourselves and to kind of discover maybe parts of ourself that are less to the forefront when you're like really in a relationship. But you know, that's for us as individuals, but for us, you know, as co-parents,

I hope that we raise boys of honesty and integrity, are happy and feel loved. And I hope that we're a team who tells each other what's on our mind even if it's not always, you know, hard to say or or easy to hear. That's that's what I hope for us is to have a parenting partnership based on and laughter and respect and honesty.

Me too.

Thank you again to Ariel. Thank you for your honesty, your vulnerability, your directness. This truly meant a lot to me and thank you for watching. Next week I'm excited to not be the subject of the episode. I'll be having a conversation with Lara Love Harden. She is a mother who overcame a battle with heroin addiction and eventually

was an Oprah Book Club bestseller. It's full of insightful and human drama and you're not going to want to miss it. It's full of insightful and human drama and you're not going to want to miss it. See you next week and take care.