Aaron Lewis on Being Blacklisted from Radio & Why Record Labels Intentionally Promote Terrible Music

How'd you wind up singing country music?

Mmm

well My childhood The soundtrack to my childhood is all country music That's all I heard from the time. I woke up in the morning until the time that the lights went out It's funny. You're from northern New England, which I think my people don't associate with country music But it's oh, yeah for sure a country at like out in the woods, everybody's listening to country music.

For sure. But yeah, I would, I spent a lot of time at my grandparents' house. Where? In Wallingford, Vermont. Spent a lot of time there. It was a safe place for me. And my grandmother would wake up in the morning

and the very first thing that happened before an egg hit the frying pan or anything was the country radio got turned on. Wow. And it was on all day long. And the very last thing that got shut off

before the light got shut off was the radio. So I mean, it didn't matter if I was going fishing with my grandfather or whether I was at the house. If we were going fishing, I can still visualize the pile of 8-tracks on the floor of his Gran Torino with the boat tied to the top of the car and it was just, it was permanent. There was always country music, always. And if we were in the boat,

he was singing it. So my whole childhood is just steeped in country music. So when I decided, excuse me, when I decided to do something different because I had gotten to the end of my contract with Stained and I was now free to do whatever I wanted to do, I had always thought about putting out a solo record, if you will.

A lot of lead singers do that. I didn't want it to be stained light. I wanted to do something different and reinvent what I was doing without reinventing myself. Yes. And the only direction to go was country music, because it was such a part of my being, part of my whole childhood memories and the landscape of it.

So when I decided that I was actually gonna do something by myself, that was the direction that I went. It's funny, I think people think of country music as a regional music. Southern, Appalachian, Tennessee, Southwest Virginia, kind of the birthplace.

They don't think of it as the music of the country. So it's like Central California, Bakersfield of course, Vermont. Bakersfield is a piece of Texas. Exactly. In the middle of California. And you grew up in northern New England which is you know very rural, one of the most rural places. And you get out of the cities in New England and it's as country as country gets, and it's as red as red gets. Even the state of Massachusetts.

Oh, I know. If you look at the state of Massachusetts broken down county by county, the whole state's red, except for Boston, Worcester, and Springfield.

Yeah.

Now you get outside those three big cities, and in the state of Massachusetts, which is one of the worst. It is. California too. You get outside those big cities it's all red. Yeah not a lot of Kamala voters up near Mount Shasta. No. No. No not at all. It's just music is such a window into attitudes and culture and it's just, it's funny that country music is basically popular

everywhere outside the cities.

Mm-hmm, 100%.

Interesting, so how, was it weird for you to go from one genre to a completely different one? Weird? I don't know if it was, I don't know if it was weird. It was foolish by everybody else's accounts because I had already built something substantial in the rock industry.

And I kind of walked away from that and went to a completely different genre that there might be some overlap of stained fans that also liked country music. But I was certainly in that moment shooting myself in the foot and having to basically start over because my value in the industry was towards the rock industry and nobody knew who I was in the country industry

unless they would listen to rock music too. So it kinda, in perfect me form, I took the hard road and decided I was gonna change genres along with putting something out by myself, which would have been hard enough as it is. How has country music changed itself as a genre? I don't really recognize country music anymore.

Really? Well, what's playing on the radio, like how do you draw a line from what's on the radio now and called country music to what was on the radio when we were kids called country music? Like, there's no line to be drawn. I listen to Bluegrass Junction, so this is all outside my world, but tell me how it's changed. It's been infiltrated by California, just like everything else.

Ooh, really? When, within my career, about halfway through it, everything changed in the industry, and a lot of consolidation happened. A lot of people lost their jobs at whatever record label they were at, or they were in the top 40 side of things and everything got condensed and they lost their,

well, they all either went to Nashville or they went to country radio. And I truly believe that that has something to do with why country has become so popified. Where it's like the land of the misfit toys, where it's not really country, it's not really pop. It kind of rides right down the middle of it and becomes its own thing.

And they should call it its own thing, like they should call it its own thing. Like it should have its own genre and classification. And instead they call it country. And I don't know how you can put George Jones and Merle Haggard in the same sentence as Morgan Wallen or the Rascal Flats.

I mean, how do you even, how does that correlate? How does that fall into the same category? Because it doesn't in any way to me.

Which is better?

Country. Yeah. We have pop music. I think pop music with a country twang is a little weird. Why did they do that? Did that happen organically or do you think it was on purpose? It's the control mechanism. It's the people in power calling the shots and being the taste makers, if you will,

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That's masachips.com Tucker, code Tucker for 25% off your first order, highly recommended. There's something a little radical, or maybe more than a little radical about traditional, you know, Johnny Cash doing, you know,

a live show from the Folson yard, you know, it's like, it's pretty, it's pretty untamed in a lot of ways. I mean, there's like a true outlaw, not a fake outlaw element, but like a real outlaw element. I think that country music is, is Americana.

Like it's the, it's the genre that we as the country of America are certainly responsible for. It came from here. It didn't come from somewhere else where rock had a lot of English influence, all those English bands from back in the 60s and stuff.

But country music still isn't worldwide. It's big in Germany. It's kind of listening audience in England and in Germany, but it doesn't expand much further than that. Like country music is an American genre. And it's become less American and more international,

more like Barcelona. It's just everyone's city.

Right.

Like it's like- So it's nobody's city. It's like the land of the misfit toys. That's the best way to describe it, where it doesn't fit in pop, doesn't fit in country, just kind of, but you can push it in either direction

and it works, but it has no, it doesn't have its own soul, if you will. It's not, it's definitely not pure to the genre. Do you think that there's still a demand for it? I mean, could- Country music?

Yeah, real country music. Could Merle Haggard make a living today?

I don't know. I mean, I would certainly hope so, but if you listen to the landscape that's on country radio right now, I don't see where he would fit in at all. I don't see where I fit in at all. Are you on the radio?

No.

Really? No, they won't play me. They don't like my thoughts on things. Really? How important is it? Well, it's obviously you, how many shows you do last year?

Oh, probably 175, 180 shows last year. Yeah, so obviously you're- Pretty much all of them sold out. You're doing fine. I'm doing just fine. It's nice to not have to bow down to the powers that be.

It's nice to not have to undermine my value in a market because the radio station wants to get as much out of my show as they can, so they sell my ticket for a low-do $10 ticket, and they've just devalued my value in that market by selling such a cheap ticket

when I can sell hard tickets. I don't need to sell myself short by doing favors for a radio station. Is that how it works?

Oh.

First you sell your soul to the record label and then you sell everything else you've got to the machine which is the radio that drives music. Really? Is it satellite or terrestrial radio? All of it. All of it. Satellite just took over. Yeah but it's the same idea? Same concept. So how does, if you don't mind revealing the sleazy underbelly of the business, like, that you don't participate in apparently, how does that work?

We're the, we are the indentured servant. I mean, I think that indentured servitude laws are literally still on the books in California so that they can get away with what they do with us. The performer, the artist you're talking about? Yeah, everything, every penny that we ever get paid from a record label is all a loan. It's all a loan. To give you just a conceptual breakdown,

this is all just kind of a, take a dollar.

Yeah.

So 25 cents of that dollar, let's just say, it's probably more, goes to the record label, just because, because they invested. The rest of it, business management takes their percentage, lawyer takes their percentage, management takes their percentage,

business manager takes their percentage. Then the government takes their percentage, and then the overhead and then what's left, let's call it 10 cents at the end of the day, that goes back to the record label to pay back the loan that they gave you

of the money that they gave you up front. Actually. So any money that I've actually made from the record label, I've made them 80 times as much. Like that's it of a dollar.

Let's just say there's 12 cents left. But 12 cents actually goes to pay back the record label for the money that they gave you. It's insane. How does that still exist? Because of the laws on the books.

It's like, it's insane. Are the record label people adding a lot to the process? Are they creative geniuses? No. I just love how all the people who are getting rich from creativity are the least creative people. Yeah, they're the ones that can't create, but they are making the most money off of the creatives. We're here because who wouldn't want a record label?

Who wouldn't want to live this dream? Who wouldn't want to make music if they're a musician? Who wouldn't want to make music as their livelihood? So we're in a very fucked up situation where there's a thousand people behind me that would kill me to have my freaking job.

Yes, exactly. So I got no leverage. Television is the same. I got no leverage with the industry. Because I'm easily chewed up and spit out because there's a thousand people behind me

waiting to get chewed up and spit out. How long did you participate in that system? It was 2012 or 13. That last stained record that we put out was was the last record where I really had to do the dance

and play the game with radio and not ruffle any feathers and not offend anybody and play the game. And then once that contract was done, I tried to play the game with country music. And then I released a song called, "'That Ain't Country' that was basically talking

about the whole industry that has created this amalgamation of music that doesn't really fit in a genre. And that was the end of it. I put out a song, trying to get country radio to play it about them,

and they didn't like that very much. Okay, so you attacked the distributors, and then were surprised when they didn't distribute it? Yeah, super smart. Yeah, super smart. Good one. I admire your purity. But principled.

Exactly, but principled. That's hilarious. So, that didn't work. So, what did you do?

Did it work?

Well, I don't know. It basically, it didn't work to my advantage to be getting played on the radio, but it certainly freed me from being a servant to radio.

Yes.

So it's a, it is so freeing to not be under that thumb.

Yes.

I can write songs that are over three and a half minutes long. I can put lyrics in songs that I want to put there. I'm no longer held to the industry standard because I'm not necessarily trying to participate in the industry game I

Go out there. I play successful shows. I have a fan base that seeks out my music and doesn't just listen to what the radio stuffs down their throat and I'm Very very blessed and very very lucky to that I don't have to participate in the game anymore.

How has Spotify changed it? I'm a Spotify billionaire. I've have over a billion spins on Spotify. If I only had a penny for every spin on Spotify that would be fantastic. A dollar, a quarter, a penny from every spin with over a billion spins on Spotify. All I have is a plaque.

You never got paid?

It's so, by the time Spotify plays it, there's so many people in the middle. I don't even think a penny comes my way, to be honest with you. For a billion spins, you made no money? I don't think so.

I don't, that's not how Spotify works. Well, how does it work? I'm not sure. I just know that it cuts a lot of people in on my financial stream. That's all I know. A lot of people who are not you.

Right. That once again, aren't the creatives, and they're the ones making all the money. So you think some are creative in how they came up with something to get into somebody else's money stream. What's called creative accounting, which is a form of creativity, long unrecognized in the West.

I would call it being a leech, but yeah, I would I would say the same. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. It's a cliche for a reason, because it's pretty good advice, but sometimes it's not true. Cell phones are a glaring exception.

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It's Pure Talk. That's amazing to me. It's- A billion plays more than, and you don't get paid. I don't I mean I might have it certainly wasn't enough for me to to notice whoa where the hell did all this money come from in my bank account? Oh I got spun over a billion

times on Spotify that's why. I mean do I know for sure that no money came in? No, but if you don't remember, then obviously it's meaningful. It's minuscule, comparatively speaking. That is so interesting. Have there been... That's basically the whole thing. The amount of money that we generate as the artist, what we get back for that is minuscule,

comparatively speaking to what everybody else with their hands in the cookie jar makes. So whenever I hear people talk about the- I'm not complaining. Well, you should complain. Well, I'm very blessed and I'm very lucky

and I'm, and, and, you know, obviously God has a plan for me because the way that all of this has just happened and I am just a passenger and I'm not driving the ship.

Yes.

And I'm very lucky and very blessed, but I can still recognize the faults to the system and not necessarily be complaining about how amazing of a ride I've had doing this. It's just, it's interesting. I mean, but I should just say,

Spotify has been such a huge blessing for us on this podcast. I mean, it's just crazy. It's an amazing new way for people to consume. Yeah, and it's run by a guy I know who owns it and I think is a good guy and committed to speech and and so I'm very pro Spotify but I just

didn't understand that the creators on the music side were cut out of the benefits. Again not cut out. No but I mean a billion a lot. I mean, I should have seen a pretty significant deposit into my account for that many spins. Well, what's interesting is they probably paid somebody, but not you.

So you hear the-

Probably, I'm sure my record label got paid. Well, you see the accounting of the US economy, like what's our GDP? How much money is the United States economy generating? And like a lot. So, the question is not, you know, is the engine functioning? The question is, where's the money going?

And my complaint about the US is not capitalism, which clearly works, it's about who benefits from it. And it does seem like the least useful, least creative, certainly least patriotic, but least decent people make all of them big money. And I think this is another example of it.

Like how did Larry Fink get so rich? Like what did Larry Fink do for America? Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Figured out a way to completely leech off of everything that's already there. Well, that's certainly the way it seems to me. Certainly does, right?

So how do you, you should make money by getting on the road. That is how, and that's why I work as hard as I do, because that is where I make my money. I don't make money on record sales. I don't make money on record sales. I don't make money off of spins. I make money off of merch and actually playing shows.

Wow.

But that's a much, it feels like that's a much more direct transaction. Like you're renting the venue, you're performing for two and a half hours or whatever. You're getting a cut of gate. Like there are fewer middlemen in that, right? There seems to be. Less of a machine that puts itself in between.

Yeah. But there is this thing that has taken place since I got my record deal, 28 years ago, 27 years ago, is called a 360 deal, where now the younger artists, they're sharing the profits for everything. The record label gets a cut of their merch.

The record label gets a cut of their live performance pay. The record label gets a cut of 360, everything. Why? No matter what you generate, because they can. Because there's a thousand people behind every single person with a record label,

with a record deal, that wants it as badly as you did before you got it and they can give you the shittiest deal on the planet because if you don't take it the guy behind you will. Wow. And they're not only greedy and dishonest, ruthless, they're also very political, right? The record labels.

And usually in the wrong direction. And I don't understand how a record label that, I mean, it certainly isn't capitalism with a conscience, but it is, it's certainly capitalism where the record label is in it to make money. And it's not necessarily about what's the art that is being created by the creative.

It's about the money that that creative artist is going gonna generate for the record label to cover the 15 failures that they brought to the table. Yes. And dumped all this money into.

I get it.

Publishing is the same way.

Yeah.

So, you know, you've been in it your whole life. You've toured with everybody. Pretty much everybody.

Everybody.

You were telling me last night about smoking weed with Willie Nelson on his bus many years

ago.

So you've toured with everybody.

How many creators, artists, performers in your business in private hate and resent the

record companies? Most.

Most.

Most, if not all. I don't know that in a private setting, in a private conversation where things aren't going any further, I don't know of anybody that I know in the business that would have good things to say about it. Would it be possible for a decent person to start a record company and record label? I would think so. I would think so, but the problem is that the operating system,

it's just, it's not decent. So a decent person could start a record label, but unless they change the entire formula and in the entire way that the whole business is ran, the business itself is lecherous. So a good person could start it, but unless they change the whole thing it's gonna be the same. Right, it's like getting elected to Congress. Yeah. It's pretty obvious now that this country is getting weaker than ever, meaning the population is unhealthier. That's what Maha is about, trying to counteract this long-term trend that's culminated in

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it's the way healthcare ought to be. So when did you start having conflict with your corporate masters over politics? Obama getting elected. That was a moment wasn't it? You weren't fully on board? Oh hell no. You didn't worship black Jesus? I immediately recognized it as a as a horrible blow to our country immediately not even knowing why yet. Like I just knew instinctively in my gut I knew that we had made a massive,

massive mistake as a country. Yeah that's for sure. And so many balls got rolling during that time frame that we're still that we're still trying to slow down. Oh, I know. But yeah, when TMZ would get me when I landed in Los Angeles and I was walking through the airport and they'd get me and ask me questions and that was when I started expressing my feelings and my opinions on politics. You know how they get you? Do you know the answer to this question?

I found out. I've been gotten a few times at LAX by TMZ and other airports, and I once asked, like, how did you know I was on that plane? Like, you know, because they know, because they bribed the airline. The guy told me this.

They bribed the airline to give them the manifest. Makes sense, now that makes sense. It's so corrupt. How out of nowhere they're like, hey, like what, where, how, what? How'd you even know I was here?

Thanks, United. Bless you, American. You know, it's pretty, anyway, so they would, you'd roll off the flight at LAX, someone come up to you and ask you a question, what did you say? Oh, I was... I had no issues then, nor do I have any issue now telling anybody exactly how I feel. And, you know, I was already talking about the unconstitutionalness of Obama's actions

and what he was doing. And I mean, mentioning that what he was doing was borderline treasonous. And that was how I started the ball rolling. And what kind of responses you get? Cause you weren't allowed to criticize Obama there for a while or else you were, I can't remember the word racist.

I know I've been labeled that. Racist. And then there was one time I was playing a show down by the border. And I mean, I've played a lot of shows and I've played a lot of shows back

before I had a record deal. And this was the rudest crowd I had played to in, I don't know, 15 years. I'm playing completely acoustic all by myself, not even any extra musicians on stage or anything, just me and my guitar.

I could not get them to shut up all night, just talking over me like I was the jukebox. And I made the mistake of, back then at the end of the show, I would do a song completely unplugged, where I would pull a chord out of my guitar and I'd walk away from the microphone and I'd go stand

right on the edge of the stage. And I would acoustically play the last song with no microphone, with no nothing, just belting to the crowd. And for some strange reason, after such a rude evening, I decided I was gonna do that and try to prove everybody wrong. They're gonna listen to me whether they want to or not.

So I attempt to try to start the song. I explained to them what I was gonna do through the microphone before I stepped away from the microphone and I attempted to start the song. As I got to where I started to sing the volume had gone up and not down. Now mind you there's no sound system anymore it's just me singing to the room. So I stop. I walk back around me singing to the room.

So I stop, I walk back around, I go to the microphone, I explain to everybody what I'm gonna do again. I start again, volume goes up. So I go back to the microphone and I was like, you know, listen I don't have to do this. I was trying to do something. And a lady that was standing right there in the front row, like four people from the center, she's like, tell him to shut the fuck up in Spanish.

And I said, close to the microphone. I wasn't necessarily talking into them. I was talking to her her but it was close. I said I'm sorry, ma'am. I don't speak Spanish. I'm American The world ended For like a week all over the like broke the internet Aaron Lewis a racist Aaron Lewis this

or racist Aaron Lewis a racist, Aaron Lewis this. A racist? Right, because I said, I'm sorry, ma'am, I don't speak Spanish, I am American. That was what I said. Beats me, but that's what went around. Perez Hilton did a hit piece on me about how much of a racist I am.

Put the video connected to it, and if you watch the video, you see that the whole interview is, I mean, the whole piece is a complete bullshit and a complete fabrication of all of it. And they would write these hit pieces

and actually attach the video that completely contradicted the hit piece. Yeah, it doesn't matter. But it doesn't matter because people wouldn't actually, they just read. Oh, Rez Hilton, boy, I haven't heard that name in a while.

Is he still alive?

I don't know.

Boy, that's- I don't know, maybe the Vax got him. I don't know.

Possible.

That's wild. So you're a racist for saying- That I don't speak Spanish, I'm American. clearly in the books, in the naturalization process, that you have to have a full working knowledge of the English language before you can become a citizen in this country. Yeah. Well, you know,

English is not a race, the United States is not a race. There's nothing about race in that sentence or sentiment. I know. Right. Oh, yeah. Oh, boy. Well, you just brought me back to an earlier time. I don't think that would have happened now.

I don't know. People are so over that. People are over it, but I think that that side of things probably still would have tried. Well, now they call you an anti-Semite, probably. I'm any of the ists.

You're right.

Oh, wow.

That's wild. So, how did your manager and assorted handlers record label feel about this? I mean, it was just one of those things where you just had to kind of let it go by. Just let it die out. Let it play its course and go away. Was the crowd mad when you said that?

No.

Yeah, right.

No, and then I tried one more time to sing the song and they wouldn't listen. And I put my guitar down on the stage and walked off stage. Ooh. What'd you do? I was already two plus hours into a show. It's not like they

they they they were like it's not like any of the show got taken away from them right at all. I was done. I was just trying to do something special and and they didn't want it so. So did you ever have direct conflict with an employer over politics? With an employer? Yeah, with the label. I mean, my record label president, we've had some pretty heated discussions about politics

and he... And he, I mean, when you do the whole breakdown and you start talking really bare bones basics, there's a lot of things that he agrees with me on, but when you bring all the rest of it in, we don't see eye to eye on much of anything. Right.

I get that a lot. Reasonable people, similar values actually, but they're just, they see themselves so differently and they're just committed to some weird partisan addiction. It's almost like a feel good addiction. Like a, like a,

like it's a virtue signaling addiction that people seem to have that for some reason feel so guilty about their own life that they need to create these things to virtue signal and make themselves feel like a better person because at the end of the day, how they present themselves and behave in life

is unfulfilling for them.

So they somehow have to virtue signal to make them feel better about their unfulfilled lives. It's a very strange, strange thing. I have found as a 53-year-old man, looking at the people that are younger than me that when I'm gone, they just want to be a victim. Like it's the craziest thing happening with our culture where all of our younger generation,

there's more pride taken in being a victim than there is in getting over and getting through and moving past whatever it is that you are a victim of. It's not pull your bootstraps up and stand up and keep moving forward anymore.

It's lavish in the victimhood as long as possible. And that just doesn't compute with me. No. Like I don't, that's not what I was taught at all. At all. At all.

You weren't encouraged to whine as a child? No.

No.

I wasn't either.

Honestly, if I was whining, I don't think that my voice was even acknowledged. Of course not. As it shouldn't be. Do you feel guilty about growing up as rich as you did going to Hotchkiss and Yale and all the advantages that you had? I grew up very much like most in this country. We were lower middle class at best.

The first memories that I have are living in a single wide trailer in a trailer park in Castleton, Vermont. Charming place. Super charming. Yeah, it's not the Vermont of weekend getaways, is it? Not so much, it's not Stowe, really. And my dad, back in the 60s,

he bought a hunting camp up on the side of a mountain in Sh 60s, he bought a hunting camp up on the side of a mountain in Shrewsbury, and he moved us from the trailer park to that hunting camp. It's in the song Country Boy. My dad picked the place up for 1,500 bucks back in 1964. He bought this hunting camp on the side of a mountain

for $1,500, and he moved he bought this hunting camp on the side of a mountain for $1,500. And he moved us into that hunting camp. And by the time we moved, he sold that same place for 85 grand, I think. And that was what put us in a regular middle-class neighborhood at that point. That was the up that he turned that $1,500 investment

into 80 something. I've always wanted to live at my hunting camp. I think that's the dream for a lot of people. I would just like to live in a hunting camp.

What was that like?

As good as-

As a kid?

Yeah.

Lonely.

I bet.

Lonely, I had to keep myself occupied for sure. I was out in the middle of the woods as a five-year-old kid. What'd your mom say? What does a woman say when her husband moves her to a hunting camp?

I don't think my mom minded. I don't think my mom minded. There was like, she had the garden out front and they were always, I mean, my parents were kind of hippie-ish.

Yeah, that sounds.

I mean, my dad got arrested at the Yankee Nuclear Power Plant for protesting back in the day before it was up and running. Yes. Was it, I mean, what was deer season like if you already live in the hunting camp?

It wasn't there. We would go to Wallingford and to Dambe and up where the family was and the Lewis farm was in Dambe and was, you know, half of the... Dambe is almost like a volcano, like an inactive volcano, where at the top of the mountain, there's a valley.

So it's like an old, like an ancient, ancient volcano that at some point blew off, but you would never know, but there's a valley on the top of the mountain. And that was the valley that the Lewis Farm was in. And it was like top 10 dairy farms in Vermont. And so the farm is where we would go and everybody would gather up and we would do the classic drives

and pushes and all that stuff. And it was always rifle. I didn't get into bow hunting until later in life. Yeah, well, it didn't, there wasn't much of it. Not really, not then. No.

No, I mean, bows have really come a long way since like the mid 80s to now. I remember the first time I heard it, I thought it was like one of the, not bad, I wasn't against it, but I was like, wow, you kill a deer with a bow?

Like Hiawatha? Like that was wild.

Huh, do you still hunt and fish?

I do, all the time. I'm so completely ate up with upland bird hunting and I'm from New England, so I had never hunt quail before. And I, earlier this year, went on my first quail hunt and oh my God, that was it for me.

Really? That was it for me. Like I have gone, I went probably 15 times since I found quail hunting and I hunted all the way up until the last day of the season in Florida is April 15th or 20th maybe or somewhere around there and literally hunted all the way through to the last day.

What do you like about it? Everything, the tradition. The tradition is the biggest thing for me. Like I'm all about it. I'm hunting with a gun that, you know, should be in a museum or in somebody's private collection.

And those are my hunting guns. What do you hunt with? I'm a big 410 guy. I love the 410. It's the smallest of the shotgun gauges. It is the smallest of the shotgun gauges.

It is the most gentlemanly, if you will, but I'll be out there in full Filson regalia and looking like I just came out of a safari or something and I'm all about it. I respect the tradition of it. The camaraderie, the dogs. Oh my God, I love watching the dogs work.

They're unbelievable.

Watching a dog slam into a point like that, like somebody just shot him with electricity, just poof. It's amazing. It is amazing. It is amazing. It is amazing. It is amazing that

that's that's

almost as enjoyable as the actual flush and the shot is Actually watching the dogs. I totally agree with that. That's that's half three-quarters of the enjoyment is experiencing that whole thing with the dogs and how amazingly trained they are.

I mean, just how does a dog know to do that? I don't know.

It's amazing. It's latent. I mean, I think it's in the dog.

And your job is to bring it out. It's instinctual and then you got to bring it out. That's it. It's amazing. Can you hit a quail with a 410? Almost every time.

Really? Yes, sir. You're doing 180 shows a year. How'd you get to be such a good shot? I had... I was hunting with my dad, bird hunting for roughed grouse and woodcock,

just like you love so much, at seven, eight. Yep. I think I got my first double for woodcocks at 10 or 11. Got my first double on grouse at like 12 or 13. Wow, I've never done that.

The grouse one was like, it couldn't have been more perfect. Three grouse all went up at the same time and they all flew straight away from me. I probably could have got a triple if I was using a semi-auto and not a-

If you had another barrel.

So for people who don't, I mean, I'm sure we're going to lose an audience point here, but for people who don't know what New England grouse hunting is, can you describe it? Grouse is a big woodland bird about the size of a chicken. About the size of a chicken. And they strut like a turkey does. Yeah.

And they're one of the most beautiful birds. And they're one of the hardest.

Yes.

They're as fast as an F-15. And you literally have... If you get two seconds as a window of opportunity for that shot. That's a lot. That's a lot.

Yeah.

That's a lot.

They go off and it's like, and they're gone. You literally have that much, and they're gone. And the noise I'm making is what it sounds like when they take off from their wings, hitting their body. And it will stop your heart, like.

Yeah.

And they're no pen raised rough grouse.

I mean, they're just all wild birds. 100% and they're as wild as wild gets. And for you to go out and have a successful day of roughed grouse hunting, or partridge as they're also called, Yeah.

you've accomplished something. That's for sure. You get a limit and you're actually done for the day and can't keep hunting for the day with roughed grouse, you have accomplished something. If you're doing it on foot day and can't keep hunting for the day with roughed grouse, you have accomplished something. If you're doing it on foot, I've never done that, but never limited out on grouse, but

like how far per bird do you think you walk in grouse hunting? Miles. Miles, unless you have found a thick population, you will cover some ground and you will put in a lot of work. It's probably why I like quail hunting so much.

Right, now you get older.

Because I'm 53. I don't necessarily want to walk into a piece of woods that is up and down and the thickest. They, of course, they live in the thickest crap. Oh, yeah. So you're really, really, really, really putting in a lot of effort to possibly put up one bird where with quail hunting, if you go to a plantation where that's their deal is quail hunting, with a nice leisurely stroll, nice leisurely gentlemanly stroll through the woods,

you can put up a hundred birds instead of possibly one.

Yeah.

In that sense, the hot and heavy action is what kind of keeps, makes the quail hunting thing kind of at the top, if you will. Quail hunting is a rich man's sport. Rough grouse hunting in New England is a poor man's sport. Quail hunting is a rich man's sport because of the fact that the majority of the quail

hunting that you can do at this point in our society and in our growth as a country, everything else, it's really hard to actually find wild quail to begin with.

Yes.

So what you're hunting is a put and take situation. So there's an overhead to it. Yeah. And you're paying anywhere from a thousand to astronomical prices to go and hunt this place. Some places are insane and so exclusive and so private

that even if you had the ridiculous amount of money to pay, you can't. But yes, yes, it is a rich man's sport in the sense that it's hard to go do it on your own time with no dime. For sure.

You gotta go to a place that, for the most part, you gotta go to a place that it charges you because there's a massive overhead for the cost of the birds and the cost of everything. So, if you had to pair a musician with these two kinds of upland bird hunting, you'd say Bruce Springsteen, who's the representative of America's working man. Oh yeah, totally. He would be a grouse hunter.

Such a, like, I would put him as my representation any day.

Do you know Bruce Springsteen?

No, thankfully.

What do you think of him?

I think that he is a disgusting display of not appreciating what was handed to him for as in this country as being an American the success that he has had. The fact that he duped us all with one of the most anti-American songs ever and called it Born in the USA as some sort of celebration of how great it is to be born in the USA, I'm angry at myself for not seeing it for so long and actually giving him in my mind

the credit of being a representation of blue collar America. I think that he has forgotten where he came from. Yep. I think that if you're not careful doing this, this career that me and him have both been so blessed to have had, if you're not careful, it will consume you. And it's obvious that it creates a situation

where you've lost sight of the reality of the country that you live in because you've had so much, you have so much that it's really easy to take a stance that is so anti everything. That you were lucky enough to have, lucky enough to create, lucky enough to change your situation in life. And he just lost touch with the struggles. He's lost touch with the struggle. And it seems like most people who have lost touch with the true struggle of life, those

are the people that vote for these fucking idiots. Those are the people that feel like they have to virtue signal. Those are the people that somewhere along the way they feel guilty for the success that they have had, so they somehow have to make it up with this nonsensical bullshit that, like, you grew up at the same time frame I did. racially driven, the verbal beating that we took over and over and over our whole childhood of you don't judge a man by the color of his skin, you judge a man by the content of his And, like, it was the best that our country has ever been. And I think that that didn't work well for the Democrats and the Communists.

Why?

Because they thrive in the chaos. They want us at each other's throats. They want us bickering internally so that we have no sense of shared country pride, that we have no sense of shared morality because they've created so many things artificially for us to fight

about. I mean there is no a a Power Center in this world That definitely does not want to see us as the The shining light on the hill. No, no at all. They're against peace and prosperity and because there's no money in it Self-sufficiency and God Yeah, no, I I couldn't there's no money in it. Self-sufficiency in God. Yeah, no, I couldn't agree more. There's no money in it.

If we're all, you know, how can they exploit us if we're all united and getting along? When we're all looking out for each other as human beings, how can they exploit us? They can't, so they have to keep us in a constant state of conflict.

When did you start to realize this? As I got old enough to be carrying the weight of that responsibility on my shoulders, like knowing full well that, okay, it's my turn now. I have assumed the responsibility, which we are all supposed to do, that the country is in my hands. It was in my father's hands before that. It was in my

grandfather's hands before that. And as our generations grow and get older, each generation, it's now their turn to become and take over as the stewards of this amazing, beautiful country. And we forgot about that for a little bit. And we haven't been doing that over the probably the past 30 years.

And that's not okay with me. Like it is my responsibility now as a father and a proud Patriot, it's my responsibility now to make sure that what I hand over to the next generation behind me is better than I found it

because that's what we're supposed to do. That's what we were taught our whole lives. You walk into the woods, you leave it cleaner than you found it. You find one piece of trash, it doesn't even matter, one piece of trash and you pick it up

and you put it in your pocket, you have left that better than you found it. And our generation, that's what was instilled in us, beaten into us. That's for sure. Yeah, that's the moral of the party.

I come from the generation of, still, it's probably the last generation of, as a kid, now, did it fuck me up and make me feel like my voice doesn't get heard and like an incessant thing for me is to be heard because I didn't feel like my voice was heard

as a kid at all. Because I was like the last generation of kids that are to speak when they're spoken to. And that's it. Like I got that from my grandparents. Like children are only to speak when they're spoken to. That's fair.

And children are to be seen and not heard. Also fair.

Unless they have something interesting to say.

Sure.

Yeah. But if you don't, I think in general, if you don't have something interesting to say. I think that all that all supports the whole thing of, because I said so, I don't have to give you a reason as my child as to why. Like, because I said so,

there's a huge lesson with that in life. Your boss isn't going to explain to you why you have to do something. He's going to tell you to do something and you need to just do it. There's going to be situations in life where if somebody tells you to do something and you hesitate and don't do it, your life could be in danger.

It's just a,

it's a lost art form. It's a lost art form. Parenting is a lost art form. I said that all the way back in 2001 on the cover of Rolling Stone. Parents have forgotten how to be parents. Like I realized that all the way back then.

And it's only gotten worse.

Yeah.

The average kid these days, the biggest parental figure in their life is their computer or their phone. It's not their parent. Yeah, it's the internet. It's insane.

We are knowingly and willingly flushing everything down the toilet out of convenience. It's so convenient to have this fully operating computer in my hand at all times. It's so convenient. Every important piece of thread that makes up the fabric of this country is being picked out one at a time and it's going to leave us with this empty shell that nobody knows what to do with it now because we've already discarded and thrown away

everything that kept us on a path, on a good path in life. It feels like new people will rebuild a new and different society in place of the Americans who were here when you and I were born. And that's scary.

Oh, I know.

That's scary. If we hand this country off as the stewards of today, if we hand this country off to the younger generation without fixing it first, and they're able to do what they've been taught to do, this country will cease to exist.

Certainly will not be the shining light on the hill anymore. I don't know that it is already. I mean, the love and want and desire for this country to go back to where it was for a lot of people is still strong but I don't know if we have the wherewithal as a society as an entire country to pull our heads out of our asses long enough it. It's scary. I'm scared. I'm scared for my kids. I lose sleep over what this country is going to be for, good Lord, my grandkids. It's bad enough for my kids.

Yes. But another generation, my grandkids? If this doesn't, if this ship doesn't get righted, what are they even gonna have? Is their life gonna even have the, even the slightest semblance of what our lives were? Do our kids now, is their life even the slightest semblance of what me and you had as kids?

No fucking way.

How is it different? You've got three kids.

We were latchkey kids. You didn't even have to lock your door. Like, you came home and so many parents weren't even there. And there was no worry. Like, I never had a key to my house I don't have a key to my house now actually because of where you live oh yeah right no that's

right and I love it out here this is like no I agree no but you're you're right I mean the feeling of safety what was kind of unquestioned the feeling of safety was kind of unquestioned. The feeling of trust, just overall trust of your fellow man, that's instinct. It's extinct, it doesn't really exist anymore. So you travel by vehicle, by bus through America.

I don't like to fly. I literally have not flown on a commercial plane since everything shut down for COVID.

Wow.

Good for you. I drive everywhere unless I absolutely have to fly and then I am guilty. I won't fly commercial, but once, maybe twice a year when I absolutely have to fly, I will be bougie and get a plane. But because you're traveling overland the majority of the year. I see what this country is. Exactly. So, what do you see?

And you've been doing this for what, 30 years? You've been on the road across America. I have watched the flyover states just crumble. You go into a small town, half the businesses are boarded up. You know, those small classic, what you would think of as Americana,

those Norman Rockwell towns, they're all boarded up. There's nobody downtown. There's no commerce. There's a Dollar General down the street. There's a Walmart 10 minutes away, but every mom and pop shop is all gone.

Family businesses that have provided for that family and provided for the town with the business that they provide, it's all gone. Everywhere?

Pretty much. Pretty much.

What are the, you play in every region of the country. Yeah.

What are the toughest parts of the country right now?

Rural. Yeah.

Rural.

Second, you leave the cities.

Mm-hmm.

And that was...

And it's undeniable, visually right there in front of your face, you have to close your eyes to not see it. So why does no one ever mention that? I never, every US Senator I know, I know all the Republicans, I mean they're very upset about Iran or Ukraine, but I don't ever hear them mention their own states outside the cities. I know, it's disgusting. And these are supposed to be the people

that are the representatives of that area.

You wonder, has Tom Cotton ever been to the Delta in Arkansas? Like when was the last, seriously, when was the last time he was in El Dorado, Arkansas?

Right.

And I've been through all of Arkansas.

And it's, it's poverty stricken and falling apart. Yeah, I know.

And, and that's anywhere. Tennessee.

I know.

Like, anywhere.

I know.

30 years ago, 40 years ago, Pine Bluff, Arkansas was a real town

And now you know, it's one of the most dangerous places in the country, hmm, I

Just wonder like what do they think? I don't know and I don't understand why

Their policies never work

Like they never ever work, I don't know of a single communist policy that has actually done good for whoever it was that the policy was designed for. None of them. It's only about destruction. It is. It's only about destruction. It is. It's only about destruction. Well, here's the story you probably haven't heard a lot about. The Chinese mafia is exploiting rural America to create a drug empire. This is not available on cable news.

The network's not telling you about this, but it's totally real. Communist affiliated drug gangs destroying parts of the United States, the parts that Washington ignores, to sell drugs, laundering money and building a black market network inside this country's most beautiful but least served areas. We've got a brand new documentary on this. It's called High Crimes, the Chinese Mafia Takeoverover of rural America. It's available now on tuckercarlson.com. It's excellent. The purchase of churches and schools to aid the operation,

the jerry-rigging of power boxes to steal electricity, foreign pesticides, collusion with the Mexican cartels. It's unbelievable. By the way, one of the drug houses is like walking distance from my house. I didn't know that.

It's a layered and fascinating story. Head to tuckercarlson.com to watch now. We think you'll love it. So here's one of my favorite quotes, my favorite Aaron Lewis quotes, my book of Aaron Lewis quotes. You know, everyone in music is like an outlaw,

I'm a rebel, and they all say the same thing, and they all mouth the same pieties, read the same stupid bumper stickers, kiss ass to the same powerful people. So this actually is kind of an outlaw thing to say, and here's what you said in 2022, and I'm quoting you. You know, as fucked up as it sounds, maybe we should listen to what Vladimir Putin is

saying. Hmm. I got, I got so, I got in so much trouble for that. And I can, let me, I will continue to quote you back to you. Maybe when Klaus Schwab and George Soros and every other earth destroying MF are all jump on the same bandwagon,

maybe just, maybe we should take a good look at that. Why are they trying to protect Ukraine so much? What do they all have to lose? So I would think like in a country with creative people, a free country, that you'd be one of many people asking the single most obvious questions. Why can't we listen to what the other side is saying? And why are all these people who were pretty obviously bad also vested in this one faraway country?

Like, what do they have to lose? I mean, first of all, bless you for saying that. Second, did anyone ever answer your question? Nope. Nope. I lost employees.

Employees?

Oh, yeah.

People that, not direct employees in my my like, in my knit circle, but external employees, people that worked for me in different areas that wouldn't, that wanted nothing to do with it anymore. It's a funny story and you're a part of it. The reason I said that is because I had literally

just watched your show. Oh gosh. And you were the one to say hmm maybe we should have maybe we should listen to Putin and see what he has to say and I was like well if Tucker has said it on Fox. How that worked out for me? It worked out for both of us the same way. And I agree. It worked out for both of us the same way. I agree. It worked out for both of us the same way. It took weeks for that one to go away.

Really?

Oh yeah. But I just, I'm not an artist. I'm a guy who gives his opinions on YouTube, but I appreciate artists, which is to say people whose whole job is to pursue the truth, whether they get there or not, but I mean, that's their job. And every society carves out room for them to do that.

And a healthy society isn't run by artists. Don't want them, they're not in charge of the power grid, okay? But a healthy society does kind of listen sometimes to what they say because they're saying unconventional things, challenge you to think a little more deeply about things you assume are true, are they actually true?

You pay artists to say things like that. So it's just wild to live in a society where artists are leading the charge for conformity. They're like, no, no, obey.

That does seem-

When did that happen? I don't know, but it's very weird. It seems like what once was like on that edge is now so blunted and everybody is just a spokesperson for the machine.

It does feel that way.

Because they're all afraid of losing their position in the machine. Yeah. When all of the higher ups think the opposite that you do, most of the time in this industry, those people don't have the wiggle room that I do.

Yeah.

So they have to conform or they lose their spot. I was lucky enough to have built and created my spot before I chose to not conform. Right. So that matters. I didn't necessarily lose my spot just because I didn't conform, because I had already built it and they couldn't take that away from me at that point. Like, they've already tried to cancel me. They've already done everything that they can do to talk shit about me.

So now they just ignore my existence. Now they don't even say bad things. They just don't say anything at all.

It doesn't seem to have affected your sales.

It doesn't seem to. You had one of the biggest songs in the country a couple years ago, everybody hated it, everybody in charge hated it. Am I the

only one? Yeah. Yeah, there was a outward call within the industry for me to be cancelled and to lose my record deal. And my record label president, who we don't see eye to eye on politics at all, stood up for my right to free speech and my right to creativity and as an artist, my right to express myself however I want.

What didn't they like about the song?

That it was... a patriotic, country-loving...

point out the, what the fuck is going on right now... point of view. And they didn't like that. They didn't like that I was pointing out the obvious in a time where every single one of us was sitting there scratching our heads going,

what in the fuck is going on in this country? I'm 49 or 50 at the time or whatever it was, and I've never seen anything even remotely close to what's going on right now in this country. Like where did our sense of free people go where all of a sudden we're just conforming to these rules that just don't make any sense? It seems like they're just taking handfuls of shit and throwing it against the wall and

seeing what sticks. And I was like, what the fuck? Am I the only one who's seeing this? Who's recognizing how completely, how completely absurd the whole concept was of shutting everything down? How do we survive that as an economy, as the wheels that need to keep moving at all times

just screeched to a freaking halt? And me and Jeff Steele and Ira Dean got together and everybody was wearing masks at the time. Everybody was distancing themselves from everybody. That moment in time was one of the most destructive moments in time that we've ever experienced. It destroyed our close-knitness. It destroyed...

Human beings are social people. They wanna be in groups. They wanna be together. We wanna come together instinctively. And to do that, like there's a whole lot of people that are responsible for that,

that should be held accountable for what they did. I couldn't agree more. I'm still blown away by it. I still feel like the words to that song are just as relevant to this moment that we are sitting in right now

as it was five years ago when we were locked up and told that we had to wear masks and then we couldn't. I had a mask in my car just to put on if I went into Dunkin' Donuts or if I, and that didn't even last for very long.

A month into it, I was like, this is fucking bullshit. I'm not, I got thrown out of Dunkin Donuts one day for walking in without my mask on. You got thrown out of Dunkin Donuts? And like, rudely.

Really?

Like you are putting everybody in this everybody in this place's life in danger, and you should be ashamed of yourself. Wait, Dunkin' Donuts is the place where homeless junkies shoot up in the back? Right, right, yeah, yeah, yeah. Same place, yeah.

But what you were doing was unclean.

Right.

So, I never knew that people were that easy to train. I never knew they were that obedient. I never knew there were that many people

with no self-respect at all. At the time I was living in a very, very left town. Which town? Massachusetts, North Hampton, Massachusetts. Lesbian capital of the world. Mm-hmm. It's where Smith College is.

Yeah. It is a festering cesspool of anti-American everything.

What's the happiness level, would you say, in Northampton, man?

Misery. It's mandatory. I don't see anybody smiling ever, ever. They are all, all these people that feel the need to virtue signal every time they turn around are some of the most miserable people

you've ever met in your life.

Oh, I've noticed. Oh yeah. What are they mad about?

Their own failures, I don't know. I don't know why it's such an incessant need these days to do it like just live a good life all this virtue signaling all this all this fake outrage just live a good life. Yeah. Treat people good. You'll get treated good in return.

How'd they treat you in Northampton?

If they knew who I was, probably not very good.

Country music's not that big in Northampton.

I'm not, I'm a, I'm not the artist, celebrity, I hate, I don't even like using that word. It makes me feel weird. I'm not the artist that wants to get noticed. I try my best to stay under the radar.

A successful day for me of going out and about is not getting noticed. So, it doesn't, I don't even remember where I was. Sometimes I get on a roll and I lose track. Well, you just picked the right town for anonymity. I mean, if you were say the Indigoigo Girls or the Dixie Chicks.

Wouldn't be able to walk down the street. No. But, um, you really, did you choose Northampton because you know not a single person there has ever heard of your music? At the time it was out of convenience. But I certainly would not choose, nor do I, now that I don't live in downtown Northampton,

I don't choose to go there. I will go into Northampton for pretty much one reason and one reason only, And his name is Sam, and he is the sushi chef at Moshi Moshi.

Oh.

And I will go and I will sit down at the sushi bar with Sam, drink sake with him and eat sushi.

So you'll make the sushi pilgrimage,

but no more residential time there. No. What's your, let me ask you a couple questions about what you like. I want to try that flavor. Oh, it's the best.

This is sweet nectar. We just came out with it and I got like a case of it. So I've been on it and I really like it. What are the other two new flavors, the other couple of flavors? I know that I heard you say-

We have a bunch. We've got fruit and mint and wintergreen and all that, but this is, and we've got a bunch of other flavors we're working on, but that, the government makes it hard to introduce new flavors.

It's crazy.

Well, cause you're trying to get the kids. That's what it is. Yeah, I can't, I'm not even allowed to talk about that topic. Nicotine for the children is totally verboten. I started really young, I'll just say that.

And I'm glad I did.

But anyway, I know everyone disagrees with me,

but that's how I actually feel, so I'm just gonna say it. I had my first cigarette at eight. That's pretty young. And I've actually been smoking, like, half a pack of cigarettes. I've been smoking since I was like 13. Yeah, me too.

But I quit at 45. And what brand do you smoke? American Spirits.

It's a good cigarette.

It is, as far as a cigarette goes.

It's delicious.

It's delicious. It doesn't have all the extra 1600 chemicals that they put in there to make it more addictive, to make it burn faster, to make it burn slower.

Right.

They even put chemicals in there that are contradictory to themselves. Yeah, for fireproofing their cigarettes. I mean, it's all...

Yeah.

And then an American spirit will go out on its own. No, I know. If you, I smoked American spirit blues, the light blue, and I always took the filters off and I saw, wow, that's like, that's the strongest cigarette made in America

if you do that. It's an incredible cigarette. I don't smoke anymore. Anyway, sorry, I'm not promoting smoking. Though it is delicious, very delicious. More delicious than anything I've ever done before or since.

I'm just, that's why people do it. By the way, the piety around smoking, obviously smoking is not good for you.

I don't want my children to smoke.

It's not good for you, it smells, it looks gross, all of those things.

I disagree.

And it's such a satisfying five minutes removed off your life. When you think about people who kind of openly, brazenly, publicly send young men off to die in pointless wars on behalf of some other country, like that's just par in the US Congress.

They all can't wait to do that and they face no moral sanction whatsoever. But if you were to light a cigarette and someone saw you, you'd be like a monster. Look, I'm not arguing for smoking. I'm just saying it's good to have

a sensible moral hierarchy in mind when you assess other people's behavior Like, some things are bad, but some things are worse than that

Right

Right? And make your choices accordingly Well, kind of, and make your judgments accordingly I mean, I do think violence is bad Sure And sending off other people's kids to die is one of the worst things I can imagine and yet that's celebrated.

You would think that that would be like a really hard decision. It's not. It's not. No, it's like the easiest decision for them to make. Lindsey Graham literally can't wait. And I do think all of them should be forced to go to the front lines in Ukraine and worry about getting droned. Not because I wish them harm, but because there should be forced to go to the front lines in Ukraine and worry about getting droned. How about this?

Not because I wish them harm, but because there should be some skin in the game. I just want some fucking truth. Yeah, I agree. I want to know why Lindsey Graham is such a Ukraine, like, what were you doing over there, Lindsey, in 2014? I think that's fair to ask. What were you doing?

Why are you so vested in Ukraine? Why would you put Ukraine over everything else? Like what is going on? I mean as you know, as so many people are fully aware, the Ukraine is one of the dirtiest and most corrupt places in the world aside from the United States. Run by a Stalinist by the way who canceled elections, closed the biggest Christian denomination in the country, put the priests

and nuns in prison, like, murdering his political enemies. I can't go to Ukraine. I'd get killed if I went to Ukraine, a country that my tax dollars support. And Lindsey Graham was like, no, that's great. I don't know. I mean, let's just wake up a second.

This is bonkers. It's degrading us. It's beyond immoral. It's like self-harm at scale. It's crushing the United States It just makes me wonder how many of these politicians that make these decisions that were like, what the fuck are you even thinking? Did you get caught in a honeypot? Did did did you do something and they caught you doing it and now they have you under their thumb? Oh, I know

like Madison Cawthorn got ran out you doing it and now they have you under their thumb? Oh, I know.

Like, Madison Cawthorn got ran out because he started mentioning stuff like that, started talking about the parties that happened and start, they got rid of him as fast as they could. He's a good dude. Well, Matt Gaetz, same thing.

Matt Gaetz, same thing.

They're like, oh, you had sex with-

I don't know how Marjorie Taylor Greene has somehow made it this far, aside from being a woman.

And I don't think they have anything on her. I think she's a decent person.

Yeah, I think she's incredible. But it was so funny with Gaetz. They're like, he starts making, you know, unauthorized noises about this or that and all of a sudden they're like, well, you had sex with children. Okay, where's the evidence? And by the way, where's the indictment?

They never indicted him for it. Oh, I know. So how can you accuse somebody of a crime and then not, the government is accusing him of a crime and then not indicting him for it? Why is that not a crime in itself? If Matt Gaetz had sex with children, indict him, arrest him, put him on trial and prove it. Or you're in trouble yourself for destroying his character.

Using my tax dollars to commit slander against your political opponents? Yeah, that's a crime. But no one's ever prosecuted for it. But what that does is it puts the fear of God into all the other freaks in Congress all of whom have some not all but many of whom have something to hide including people we've just mentioned and they're like whoa you know I better stay way away from the boundaries because I could get hurt sure it just casts a pall over everybody of fear you obviously don't feel that. No. How, how long can you do 180 shows a year?

If I'm doing the country thing? Yeah.

Forever.

Really?

Well, Willie Nelson does it. He's 90.

Yeah, I can, I can, if I live that long, I long, I could still be, the country thing, I could still be doing that. The stained thing, that's a little bit more taxing to my voice. It's a lot of yelling. It's a lot of screaming. It's a lot more taxing to where, if I'm being completely honest,

there's probably more of a shelf life to my country thing than there is to the stained thing. There's probably gonna come a point where I'm gonna have to be like, you know what? It's too taxing on me and it takes too long for me to recover from being on tour with

Stained for a month. And there's probably going to come a point where I'm going to be like, for longevity's purposes I need to either do less shows or not so many in a row or the country thing, man, I could do three shows a day every single day and never blow myself out.

And enjoy it.

You have to be pretty damn blessed in life to be able to continue enjoying a job. It is a job at the end of the day.

I'm blessed that I was able to create my job

around something that I love and that I'm driven to do.

But as a job, there's parts of that that kind of ruin the experience of it all. There's... it's the music business. The music part, I love. Yeah. The business part, it can ruin the part that I love so much.

Of course, that's why no one enjoys porn. Sorry, I shouldn't have said that. No, but it's true. I mean, like any time you take a good thing

and make it a business, it diminishes it, of course. Oh, God, our poor kids these days, they're sex addicts and porn addicts before they even had sex.

I know, it's depressing.

They're learning about sex through porn.

Yeah.

And yeah, that's a healthy sex life. Yeah, speaking of like creating a moral hierarchy, the people who make and profit from porn, I mean, I don't know why they're not in prison, but

I talk about exploitation.

Oh, yeah.

Right, but it's the cigarette smokers and the people who doubt Zelensky who really should lose their jobs. Okay, let me end on a happy note. So you've said a lot of tough things about the music business and the people who profit from it.

You described them as leeches. I don't know that to be true because I've never been in your business, but we all know that. It's a leech type of a thing. We all know that is true. Calling them a leech, that's a pretty negative connotation. Just a blood-sucking parasite. But in general, what a leech does is it parasites off of a living organism.

And that leech isn't the one that's responsible for the life that it's leeching off of.

Exactly.

And so it's an analogy. I don't want to be that negative or like hateful about it. I'm very grateful to my president, the record label president, for standing up for me and for, but you know, it's a business in a situation that you stop paying attention for a half a second and you're ate up and spit out already and you're gone.

Yeah, I believe that. So who were, so here's the question I wanna end on because it is a positive question. Having been in it for 30 years, who are the good guys? Who are the artists who you know personally who are actually in the green room, good guys?

Ooh, long sigh there.

I keep my circle pretty small.

You know, Bob's my friend.

That'd be Kid Rock.

You know, I don't interact very much with the rest of the industry really. I mean I don't find myself in Nashville very often. I don't go to the corn and soybeans and the tobacco and there's miles in every direction around my house of just agriculture. So I don't really interact with the business very much. I'm very particular about my interactions with the business very much. I'm very particular about my inner circle and who I consider a friend.

I don't have a lot of those. Big picture here, Aaron Lewis.

I gave you a chance. I was like, all right, who are the good guys? And you're like, uh...

Well, you know, this business is tough. Would you want your kids to go into it? No. And they've had... My oldest daughter Zoe is on one of my records singing Traveling Soldier by the Dixie Chicks actually. Um, and I don't know, so many people approached me like, I'll give her a record deal. Let's let's, she doesn't want nothing to do with it.

My kids have, my kids have been on the receiving end of all the shit that comes with this industry and all the sacrifice and all the, all the, the, the the disappointment and the, you know, I'm a I'm a slave to the grind. You know, the grind has taken precedent

over important things in my life that I can never get back. You know, monumental things, my kids' first steps, my kids' first words, my kids' first days of school, my kids' last days of school, my kids' last days of school, my kids' graduations. I haven't been able to be there for a lot of them.

The sacrifice is real. Yeah. But it's created a situation where I just don't let very many people in, so that, you know, big roundabout circle to answer your question.

I have a lot of acquaintances in the industry. Like there's people that I have huge love and respect for. I'm like pen pals, like me and you text all the time Me and Marilyn Manson text all the time. Yeah

I

Haven't seen actually surprised you I interviewed him in the 90s Brian and And I thought he was smart and maybe 1999 at the Chateau Marmont in LA. Brian is one of the most intelligent, profound conversations I have ever had with somebody.

I like, he's a, and I use the word evil lightly, but he's like an evil genius. He is fully aware of every single button he is purposely pushing. Like all, it's all been, he's a genius. Like it's all been calculated. It's all like he knows exactly what he's doing.

He knows exactly what buttons he's pushing and he's pushing them on purpose.

Interesting.

He's amazing. Jonathan Davis from Korn, one of my favorite people.

Like, you text with Marilyn Manson.

He's like my modern day pen pal. We never actually talk on the phone, we just text. Give it my best. I will. Aaron Lewis, thank you. Thank you.

I'm gonna go bird shooting with you.

I look forward to it. I can't wait. I can't wait to watch you use your new hammer gun. I don't know if I'll be able to use it correctly,

but we'll find out.

Thank you.

My pleasure.

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