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Andy Burnham becomes PM - who’s in his cabinet?

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0:00

The transfer of power is complete.Now he's got to get on with it before the electorate lose patience.And right now it's about naming the team.Many of Keir Starmer's highest -profile ministers have gone, including Rachel Reeves and David Lammy.The new Chancellor, defying most speculation, is John Healey, the former Defence Secretary, who resigned last month.The Foreign Secretary is Ed Miliband.

0:23

Shabana Mahmood remains Home Secretary.And Louise Haig is Minister for the Cabinet Office.might be continuity starmer.The Labour was on the road to Wigan and Keir.The new Prime Minister was bold.He intends to be a radical break, promising the biggest political change for 40 years.

0:41

He will start tomorrow, with help on the cost of living, and has talked today about tax reductions and social care free at the point of delivery.Tonight, is the plan coming together?Is it deliverable?And will the bond markets wear it?Our political editor, Gary Gibbon, has been watching events.Here's his report.

1:01

Welcome to Buckingham Palace.

1:03

Please, please, let's go and see the King.In less than four years on the throne, the King has found himself welcoming his fourth Prime Minister to Buckingham Palace.In Downing Street, lined with friends and political allies, he promised change on an epic scale.He gestured to his family gathered in front of number 11 Downing Street and blew a kiss to his mother.before his first public words as Prime Minister.The chopping and changing of leaders of the nation, which he is now contributing, should end now.

1:38

I am acutely conscious that I am the sixth person in the last 10 years to walk up this street, the seventh Prime Minister since 2016, making this a moment for reflection and new resolution.It requires my generation of politicians to raise our game and rise to the new challenge.Britain needs to show the world that we can regain our stability once again.And that is our challenge, to make politics work, to make it work better.I know people at home are fed up with politics.I hear you.

2:33

And I want to be honest with you, we have not been good enough, and we need to be better.We will be.We will make this moment a circuit breaker for Britain, bringing forward the biggest changes in the last 40 years, a new political model and a new economic model.

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It was a promise of dramatic transformation, but many details would have to wait.Some early giveaways would come quickly.

3:10

Later this year, I will bring forward a new plan for Britain, a 10 -year plan, laying out a path from where we are now to where I believe we all want Britain to be, wherever we're coming from, whatever party we support.But I can do something to give people some breathing space now, some help with the cost of living.And I will set out some of those measures starting tomorrow, including how we pay for them.I will soon go through that door behind me and issue my first instruction to anyone.rough sleeping in our country.Let us make this the moment when Britain starts to believe again, the moment we bring back hope.

4:07

Thank you very much, everybody.

4:10

He beckoned his wife to his side.She didn't seem keen.In a briefing moments later, Andy Burnham said cost of living help could include cuts to energy bills and bus fares.He wasn't ruling out rent freezes.He was still interested in unfreezing income tax thresholds, a levy to fund social care, and, he said, fiscal rules could be reinterpreted.Inside number 10, the cabinet's secretarian team waited for the moment Andy Burnham was ready to enter his new domain.

4:45

Teams have already been working on how his aspirations might be realised.Measuring up to this opening rhetoric will be a colossal challenge.Andy Burnham began his day meeting rough sleepers in Westminster and visiting a homeless shelter to promote his new pledge.He was asked if, despite his pleas, infighting in the party had already broken out.I'm appalled at those briefings.

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I'm appalled at any colleague being on the receiving end.of an anonymous briefing.And coming back to Westminster, I kind of see that having gone to another level.

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Earlier, Keir Starmer's staunchest Cabinet allies filed into Downing Street to cheer him out of the building.Friends say he remains convinced he could have turned around opinion polls.His party, he believes, has made a mistake.But none of that was shared as he left to see the King to resign.

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I now pass the baton to Andy Burnham.I wish him every success.He has my full support.And I thank the British people for the opportunity to serve.I go with good grace.I go with a smile.

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And I go proud of everything that we have achieved.Thank you very much.

6:11

Andy Burnham's promise of an end to factionalism may ring a little hollow for the Starmer loyalists clapping the man they served out of Downing Street.every one of them now cast out of government.You find those now out of office tend, with some exceptions, to have constituencies below the Midlands.Those now in office after this reshuffle, or widely expected to be promoted, tend to represent the North, and the North West in particular.Edmunaband was held back at the Number 10 gate to allow for a choreographed moment of left -right unity, not so accidentally bumping into Shabana Mahmood, giving her a hug and walking together into Number 10.She is staying as Home Secretary.

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He has switched to being Foreign Secretary.The job of Chancellor, which he coveted, didn't go to her in the end, but to John Healey, who resigned last month after a bitter row with the Treasury he now heads.He said they were short -changing the defence equipment budget by £10 billion.And it now falls to him to try to find it, as the government sets out bold ambitions at difficult times.

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7:25

and Gary is with me now.John Healey as Chancellor, what does that tell us?

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He is only recently out of a giant row with the Treasury.This is his resignation letter from last month, how the world moves fast, saying how the Treasury was unwilling to put enough money into defence equipment to make the countrysafe.But it also gives you a bit of a clue, this resignation letter, about why he might be going back in there.Andy Burnham is very keen to try and find ways of staying within the fiscal rules and yet somehow, magically, getting a bit more money, borrowing a bit more money.And it's quite clear from this letter that that was something John Healey was pursuing and it I wouldn't be at all surprised if it is something he comes back and pursues.

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Europe -wide bonds, perhaps.Areas like that he is interested in looking at.Stuff that has been raised by, amongst others, Gordon Brown.Nothing about John Healey.He is very pro -devolution.It is not entirely clear that Ed Miliband would have been exactly in that place.

8:25

Ed Miliband going to the Foreign Is that a job he wanted?

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It's a job his brother wanted.Here we go again.I'm not sure it is a job he wanted, but I think he'll be reasonably relaxed.I'm sorry, Andy Burnham has forbidden the term, a little bit of factionalism creeping in here.A fellow Brownite is going into the Treasury.Someone who thinks a bit like Ed Miliband in terms of trying to expand the amount of money you can raise and put into the public sector.

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But the problem for Ed Miliband a bit is perhaps that John Healey is more interested in military equipment and kit, not solar panels.but I think he'll feel that some of his concerns about Shabana Mahmood moving in there, sorry again new Prime Minister for mentioning factualism, have been assuaged a bit.

9:07

Well we'll have more from Gary as more emerges about the appointments but let's hear now from the former Labour Party leader Neil Kinnock and the Labour Mayor of West Yorkshire Tracey Brabin who are both down the road outside Parliament.Lord Kinnock, what do you think this cabinet so far signals?

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merit and the absolute focus on capability.I mean the people who have moved out today were very competent people.No question at all about that.Their record shows it.But in these conditions, there is bound to be a swirl.And in that swirl, what I think Andy's been looking for is freshness, fresh perceptions, fresh ideas, fresh imagination, and absolutely irreducibly on the basis of merit.

10:04

And that's what we've seen already.with the few appointments that have been announced.I think that will continue.I'm certain it will.

10:15

Tracey Brabin, the biggest political change for 40 years is a hell of a promise.He's really raising expectations.When does he intend to deliver that?Is that at the end of a 10 -year plan?So two more elections?

10:30

absolutely not.He's going to get to work immediately, no doubt about it.But we do know that we have had a country far too centralised, where the economic power, where that is held privatised, where it doesn't work for the public.And as Andy's been explaining, we did take a wrong turn and that focus on the cost of living crisis and supporting the public up and down the country have been telling all of us as politicians that they needed to see change and change rapidly because they just weren't feeling it and I'm really excited about the future but I would say to John Healey I'm excited that he's a Wakefield lad and pleased to see that background but also the focus on fiscal devolution is also going to be in his intray as is the support for the tram in West Yorkshire and also for Northern Powerhouse Rail, the money that Rachel Reeves promised for transport across the Pennines.I'm really looking forward to it and also his focus on affordable homes, that's going to be a priority for them.Prime Minister and he's evidence of that delivery historically.

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So it's an exciting time to be a mayor, that's for sure.

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But Lord Kinnock, I mean, today he's also talked about maybe unfreezing the tax thresholds, the amount you can earn without paying tax.He's talked about social care free at the point of delivery.These are multi -billion pound projects.I mean, is he writing checks the Treasury can't cash?

12:04

Yeah, I'm not sure that I heard him talking about raising the tax threshold.He may have inferred that there are other possibilities for tax revenue that don't affect the generality, the huge majority indeed, of earned income earners who have, over the last 20 odd years, effectively seen their incomes flatlining at the same time, of course, whilst others who are able to indicate that their incomes are in the form of capital gains, or have seen their asset values soaring, have not been affected by the conditions economically as the huge majority of people.So it may be, or maybe it's wishful thinking on my part, that in the name of equity and efficiency, The new government will be collecting revenues, let's say 12 billion a year from the equalisation of capital gains tax and income tax rates and providing that kind of resource directly to advancing the reform, the desperately needed reform of adult social care.

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Tracey Brabin I mean he said himself today he understands that the public are fed up.with politics.He clearly knows he hasn't got much time and that's why he's going to be making some announcements in the coming days.But if those announcements add up to a few quid here and there, you know, a return to a cap on bus fares perhaps, a small cut on energy bills which have already had a cut of over £100 this year and it kind of vanished into the ether, is it going to work?

14:01

Well, I believe it is going to work and certainly part of the role as mayor is to innovate and also a part of innovation is letting go what is not working or will not deliver on your priorities.So we had been briefed, hadn't we, that digital IDs potentially that work may be stopped and the money pivoted elsewhere.I'm sure we're going to see a fair bit of that, but also his focus on ending homelessness and the fact that so many people are, you know, vulnerable and we need to be able to ensure that as a society we support those people back into housing, back into work and that is also a cost to our society and it's an injustice that I know that it really does drive Andy.

14:55

Go on.I was just going to ask you, I mean, Andy Burnham has also hinted that, you know, this is Labour's last chance.Is Labour drinking in the last chance saloon with this Prime Minister?

15:05

No, I think it's absolutely essential that Andy, from the first day, indeed last Friday, before the first day that he was Prime Minister, very emphatically sets down the reality that Labour is fighting for its life.It's got to win a battleto restore credibility and trust and do it across the country.And there's no better way of advising any kind of organised force, political or otherwise, of the responsibility they have than to say, you fail in this, you're finished.And I think that that is a direct and completely honest instruction.It's true as well.

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15:52

But he's got three years to demonstrate pragmatically, as he will, success, which will demonstrate to the British public that their contribution, their sacrifice, their patient is paying off.And that's the absolute secret.of democratic leadership, that we're asking you to make an effort, but by that effort you will see positive results for yourself, your family, your community, your country.And that's what's happening, and it's happening now.

16:31

Neil Kinnock, Tracy Braben, thank you both very much for your time.Well, joining me here are US editor Anushka Asthana and our economics reporter, Neil MacDonald.In a moment, Anushka, but first, Andy Burnham has been making some big spending hints.How much has he got to play with?

16:48

Well, look, Andy Burnham is inheriting a very tight financial position and that is partly because he has chosen to stick with the fiscal rules of the last government.Now, one of those rules says that he will now have to balance his everyday spending by his current tax receipts.I just want to show you what that will mean for him.So, Rachel Reeves had a plan whereby that rule is met with £24 billion to spare the famous fiscal headroom.But one think tank just last week was reckoning that possibly £14billion of that could go if we get slower growth and higher interest rates because of the Iran war.

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And Rachel Reid's plans were based on very tight spending plans at the end of this Parliament, implying real -terms cuts in a lot of departments outside health and defence.If Andy Burnham didn't want to go through with that, he's got to find another 13 .5 billion.And therefore, those two things alone wipes out the fiscal headroom entirely and of course today we're talking about a lot more than just those two things.

17:46

Right so does it add up?

17:49

Well look I mean today I think the financial markets had a Very, very tiny wobble.I mean, interest rates did go up on some government borrowing.One investor said that the markets were on edge, particularly when there was a bit of talk about possibly looking at some flexibility around those fiscal rules.But, you know, presumably the new chance is going to be only too keen to find the £25 billion a year extra to raise defence to 3 .5 % of national income.social care, 18 billion, council housing, I mean, you name it.It just seems very hard to work out how you cram that all in to the fiscal rules and convince the Office for Budget Responsibility about that.

18:28

Do any of these feel -good measures that he's announcing at the moment help with economic growth?

18:34

Look, on growth, I think we just need to remember the context for all this.And I wanted to show you, I mean, we used to grow at about 2 .8 % every year in the post -war era.2010 to Covid, that dropped down to 2 % and that slowdown is one of the reasons why public finances became so difficult.Last year we managed 1 .3%.This year it'll be less than that.I mean, turning all that around certainly sounds like a 10 -year plan at least.

19:01

Of course, he's effectively got about three years to show some sort of move.

19:04

OK, well, Anushka, let's turn to foreign affairs.And the first person he spoke to was Donald Trump.

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Yeah, he spoke to Donald Trump within an hour of walking through that door.And the people who were involved in organising thatwere very, very happy about it.Because, you know, at first Andy Burnham was kind of distancing himself from the politics of America, certainly when he became the MP for Makefield.But you'll notice that language, that negative language, has disappeared.He is very much on message now as one senior diplomatic source highlighted to me his own language in a recent comment piece in the Times, our relationship with the US will remain critical as our most important defence and security ally.

19:44

How do you build a relationship with Donald Trump without, in the words of a diplomat, not me, looking like a toady?They don't want to look like that anymore.He started soft.He started talking about football and the World Cup and how great that had been.That is the easy bit of it.He also invited Donald Trump to go to Manchester for the G20 next year after he had suggested he was the mayor of a town.

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He is going to the great city of Manchester.Apparently Trump is keen to do that.Then it was finding other areas that they agree on.said to me the rhetoric on de -industrialisation, Trump loves that, but there are areas they do not necessarily agree on.

20:20

So where are the potential flashpoints?

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Well I think that came next in the phone call when Donald Trump basically highlighted to Andy Burnham what was happening in the Middle East.Andy Burnham responded by saying we want to help free up shipping in the Strait of Hormuz.But the difficult question, and speaking to sources in government here today about this, is what happens if the US continue to escalate?What happens if Donald Trump wants to see through the threats he has made to hit power plants or to hit bridges.Do we then allow the US to use our bases?Our lawyers are scouring every move and if things look like they are going to breach international humanitarian law, then they want to be able to say no.

21:00

Andy Burnham wants to take a slightly different position to Keir Starmer on this.He does also on the issue of Gaza.I think that is where it is going to get difficult.Look, the diplomats I speakto, they say this is not going to be easy, there are going to be flashpoints and we are just going to try and stay calm as we get through them.

21:17

As we have heard, Andy Burnham has made ending rough sleeping his first policy pledge as Prime Minister.The government will provide an additional £340 million to support at least 3 ,000 people across England.It is something he championed while mayor of Greater Manchester.North of England correspondent Clare Fallon is in Manchester this evening.

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There has been a lot of talk in recent days about Andy Burnham needing some quick and easy wins to go along with his long -term plan.He will know, though, from his experience here in Greater Manchester, that ending rough sleeping, it won't be quick, it won't be easy, but on Downing Street today he insisted it is doable and it should not take decades.But go back nine years and right here in Albert Square, in the centre of Manchester, Andy Burnham, then the newly elected mayor, was saying similar things.Have a look at this.

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22:18

Day one in the office.Well, actually, not yet in the office, because I've come to the city centre to speak to people who have been here overnight, sleeping rough.promise to do something about it and that's why I'm here.We're going to show that Greater Manchester does things in a better way than the rest and with your help we can end rough sleeping by 2020.

22:42

Well nine years on and there are still people sleeping on the streets of Greater Manchester.In fact in the last four years those numbers have gone up.a bit.In fairness, there have been some progressive approaches, things like a bed every night and housing first.And talking to one of Andy Burnham's key advisers on this issue, they said to me, you know, actually, they did realise it's a reallydifficult nut to crack and that you need to take a national approach.

23:09

So realism, but also from charities, including Barnabas, which works with rough sleepers in Manchester.A hope as they welcome this announcement.

23:19

I don't think anybody expected it to actually happen, if I'm honest.We all knew in the sector it was far more than Andy on his own could deliver in Manchester.We knew it was a national issue.We knew it was a problem with systems change.We knew that the system was broken.We knew that a lot of that had to happen at Westminster.

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But if you look at the numbers, he did reduce it significantly through a bed every night.Whether he can do it this time as PM, I'd love to see that.I think it's going to be a tough ride, but if anyone can do it, if anyone has got the heart and the political will to do it, it's Andy.

24:02

I think this is an intriguing and bold commitment from Andy Burnham on day one, is in that he's also talking about a knowledge of a lack of trust.in politics, wanting to restore that, knowing that people are fed up with politicians saying what they'll do and then frankly not doing it once they get into power.And that's certainly a cynicism that I've been hearing from people as I've been trying to gauge the reaction to the new Prime Minister, both here in Greater Manchester and further afield.

24:34

This is the 37th service to Manchester.

24:39

How we got here and where we're heading next.with another new Prime Minister setting out on another new course.We're talking to people in areas where Andy Burnham needs no introduction.

24:53

Andy Burnham is a down -to -earth person.I think he needs to be given a fair crack of the whip.

25:00

And in other places, outside the north -west of England, where he might have more work to do.He's just a random person that just popped out of nowhere.

25:07

I've heard of him, but I've never really understood what he's about.

25:12

As the sun rises, and with most in Manchester still asleep, we're at an industrial site on the outskirts of the city centre, where the work starts at 4am.making and baking bread and pastries hundreds every day, to be delivered, then devoured.

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We make croissants, pain au chocolat, parmesan.

25:33

If Andy Burnham were a pastry, which one would he be?

25:37

This is our parmesan.It's not really a classic, it's a revisited classic.This is your Burnham.Go on, why?Same thing, slightly different clothes, very shiny for television.

25:53

Nothing further.

25:55

I don't know how much of this is going to be usable, really.It would be nice to be optimistic about the whole thing and say, I hope this represents something good and new and positive.But it's also something like the 57th prime minister we've had in six years.Is that a good thing?Probably not.It's just a bit Love Island, isn't it?

26:23

But what about other parts of the UK, where Andy Burnham is less well -known?In recent days, there have been visits to Gravesend and Cardiff.And in his first weeks as PM, there'll be a so -called listening tour of the UK, where things might feel a bit more Andy Who?

26:38

I don't know who he is, sorry.

26:42

Like Holbury in the West Midlands, where Sandwell Council went from Labour to reform in May's elections.

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A small group up north have elected him, and now he's suddenly going to be prime minister.

26:53

We've never heard of his name all the time.

27:04

on the number 37 as we travel from Bolton through Salford and into Manchester on one of Andy Burnham's re -regulated, price -capped yellow buses.

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I think he'll be the same as every other Labour Prime Minister, to be honest.

27:24

And what does that mean?

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Kind of bad.Bad, but well -meaning.

27:28

He'll never stick to a word, any of them.Do you think Andy Burnham will be any different?I hope so.I mean, you just hope, isn't it?Like with Prime Ministers, you just hope they're going to stick to their word.As Andy Burnham today reached destination Downing Street, the hard work begins.

27:46

Not least, persuading people, tired of turmoil, but impatient for change, that things can be different.

27:56

Well, Andy Burnham has promised greater devolution of power away from Westminster and to the nations and regions.To find out how that sounds to the devolved administrations that exist, we'll be hearing from our team in Wales, but first to our Scotland correspondent Catherine Sampson in Edinburgh.

28:16

We don't have firm details about Andy Burnham and how he's going to help those north of number 10 north.What we do know, though, is the First Minister, John Swinney, has pledged to work constructively with him.He's expecting a phone call this evening.Some policies, of course, are already going to be complicated by devolution.Take end rough sleeping housing policy is devolved to the Scottish Parliament.Nicola Sturgeon talked about ending rough sleeping back in 2018.

28:44

Last year, the figures showed an ongoing rise.But there are cost of living measures that...governments can collaborate on and I think Andy Burnham can expect to hear calls quite early for more powers to come to the Scottish Parliament.

28:59

I want to make sure that the Scottish Parliament has the ability to grow our economy, to tackle the cost of living challenges that people face in Scotland and to make sure we can make the most of our economic potential as a country.I think that's helped by having Scotland's energy under Scotland's control, as an example.I think it's also helped by us having much greater scope over economic issues and the ability to offer, for example, a Scottish visa that enables people to come to live and to work in Scotland and to contribute to our economy.

29:31

Well, expect no change in the stance from this Prime Minister about allowing another independence referendum.What we might see in terms of change is a shift in tone on North Sea oil and gas.Now yesterday it was widely covered Donald Trump, who is obsessed with North Sea oil and gas, posted saying people would be dancing in the streets of Aberdeen after reports Andy Burnham was going to take a more open approach to drilling.I think we can expect Andy Burnham to make a visit to Aberdeen before the end of August.But just a note of caution on this, all we actually think will happen is that he will green light two sites, Jackdaw and Rosebank, that Keir Starmer and Rachel Rees were already dropping heavy hints about anyway.Nobody was talking about new licences.

30:17

For Scottish Labour here, for Anna Sarwar, who, remember, called for Keir Starmer to go, Andy Burnham's arrival does offer some fresh hope.

30:27

Thanks, Catherine.Let's go to our political reporter, Andrew Mistra, who was at the Royal Welsh Show in mid Wales.Andrew?

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30:36

Well, a quarter of a million people come to the Royal Welsh Show each year, and one of them today, the First Minister of Wales.He, of course, though, had oneeye on Andy Burnham's movements where you are in Downing Street.His path to becoming the Prime Minister of course was made a lot easier by the results of the Senedd elections in May.Plied Cymru taking control and Labour losing power for the first time in Wales since devolution in 1999.And devolution is something that Andy Burnham talks about a lot.

31:07

So earlier I asked the First Minister what he's hoping for for Wales.

31:12

I take heart from the fact that he understands devolution from Manchester and sees what devolution has been able to achieve.But Wales is very different to Manchester.We have our own needs, our own aspirations.And when he says that Whitehall will never be again a barrier to the aspirations of devolution, well, I say, let's crack on then and devolve policing and justice, which is Labour policy in Wales, my policy.Why would he want to stop that happening?

31:39

Well, there'll be plenty of other powers beside that the First Minister will be seeking, as well as wanting the amount of funding and how that funding works for Wales to be looked at, too.And while the Cabinet ministerial appointments continue tonight, one that will be looked at particularly closely here in Wales is the new Wales Secretary.Who will replace Joe Stevens?What sort of signal might that send?And indeed, will it show whether these two governments on either side of the M4 are on the same page?

32:10

Andrew Mishra.We are waiting for more appointments.We have seen the likes of Yvette Cooper and Angela Rayner and Bridget Phillips going in.Earlier today I spoke to reform UK's Treasury spokesperson Robert Jenrick.He defected to Nigel Farage's party in January, having previously served in several conservative ministerial roles.I asked him whether reform were willing to co -operate with the Labour government, given Andy Burnham's

32:39

promise of a new spirit of openness with other political parties?

32:44

We wish Andy Burnham well.It's obviously in the national interest that he succeeds, but we fear this will not end well, because I heard on the steps of Downing Street a lot of slogans and platitudes, but no plan.to fix the country, which I think most people would agree is in a real mess.

33:04

Do you want them to succeed?

33:06

Of course, I want the country to succeed.You want the government to be a good one.I want the country to succeed.You know, people are finding life very, very tough at the moment.Unemployment is rising.Young people have been particularly out of work.

33:18

You've got stagnating wages.Bills are going through the roof.Immigration is out of control, at least the small boats.And it was very striking, incidentally, There was no mention of immigration on the steps of Number 10.I think that Andy Burnham is not prepared for the job that he's taken up today.He says that there's a problem with welfare, but yet offers no solutions.

33:40

And we know the Labour Party backbenchers are bitterly divided over that.I mean, give him a chance.

33:44

He's literally been prime minister for a few hours.

33:46

Look, I will give him the benefit of the doubt.But I don't think the country can afford to wait months or years in order to pick itself up again.I want to see 100 days in which there is radical change.That's what reform offers.He's saying that sometime later this year he'll set out a plan.That's not really good enough.

34:06

Isn't this a very worrying time for you?Nigel Farage's approval ratings are going that way.He's in negative territory by a long way.Andy Burnham is the only one in positive territory.He is much more popular right now than Nigel Farage.

34:24

He has just arrived.This is obviously the peak and I suspect it will be all downhill from here.People will see through Andy Burnham very quickly.He is a more human version of Keir Starmer.And we all saw where that ended.It ended in tears and him being booted out by his own party.

34:41

But you're in a different kind of trouble now, aren't you, over party funding and all of these investigations and police investigations into donors, which took a new development this weekend over the million pound donation from George Cottrell's mum.Should that donation be returned?

34:59

Well, we don't know what the Electoral Commission or indeed anybody else will conclude.And reform is very clear that these were perfectly legitimate donations and everything was properly reported at the time.But it feels to me...that people want to chuck everything they can at Nigel Farage and reform.

35:19

Well, we don't know what the police are going to say.And I suspect that reform will be, if I'm convinced, reform will be found to have acted entirely appropriately.But my point is this.You've got to ask yourself, why are people chucking all this stuff at reform?Why are opponents, you know, trying to do this?Why are some of their friends in the media?

35:38

I think it's because people know that Nigel represents change.The two old parties failed the country.People can see the state of the country at the moment and Andy Burnham doesn't offer anything.

35:49

If Nigel Farage loses to the bin, do you want to lead reform?

35:53

Well, one of the things that is good about being in reform is the question of who leads this party is entirely settled.Nigel is the leader.Because Nigel owns it.Nigel is the leader.Nigel created this party.He is this party's greatest asset.

36:06

And long may that continue.And I have every confidence in the people of Clacton that when they are being so denigrated and dismissed by the Labour Party and the Conservatives that they won't even put up a candidate, that they will make the right choice and return Nigel to Parliament.But if there is a proper by -election after an investigation, then the voters will have the chance to judge.

36:30

the investigation and Nigel Farage will have all the information.

36:33

To my mind, there is no such thing as a fake election in this country.Every election is an opportunity for serious political parties to put up candidates, to make arguments, and if the Conservatives and Labour genuinely thought that Nigel is a threat to this country, is somebody that they oppose wholeheartedly, or they believed they could defeat at the ballot box, rather than through these shenanigans, they'd put up a candidate.The fact they haven't is very, very telling.

37:03

Robert Jennery, thank you very much.

37:04

Thank you.

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