Andy Burnham wins 'seismic victory' in Makerfield by-election | LBC reacts

And I do hereby declare that Andy Burnham is duly elected.

Thank you.

An extraordinary, seismic, titanic election result for Andy Burnham.He has not just won the by -election in Makingfield, he hasn't just squeaked it, he has absolutely stormed it with a majority of around 9 ,000.An absolute majority of over 50 % of the vote in Makerfield, and it can undoubtedly only be described as a personal triumph and vindication.Keir Starmer did not want him to stand in this by -election.He only acquiesced because his authority was spent.But his premise, his idea, that is Andy Burnham, that only he could take on reform and win, at least in this constituency and this contest, has been completely vindicated.

Don't listen to the spin.over the next 24 hours.This was a prime reform target.It was in the top 20 of all target seats for the Reform Party.It needed only a modest swing, as with these figures, Reform and Rob Kenyon barely added to their total at the 2024 election.And Andy Burnham didn't just want it.

He won it at a canter with over 50 % of the vote.He will come to Westminster on Monday armed with that legitimacy, not just about Makefield or his strategy or his type of politics.He will come armed with an argument to Labour MPs that he will be making ferociously, that it is he and only he who can save the Labour Party.And it will be for Keir Starmer to decide what to do next.John.We sat in this studio about six weeks ago and you were absolutely, I remember you were crestfallen at some of the results.

You seemed very depressed.I kind of feel like maybe you are emotional in a slightly different way tonight.I certainly seem so.

The reason I was depressed that time isbecause we had that flood of reform and if you remember for the first time we had to reform elected in my constituency which I'd never thought would happen so it was really shocking but yeah I'm lifted by this I think the whole Labour Party will be lifted by this because it shows we can we can not just defeat reform we can trounce them But we can only trounce them if we reflect on how Andy Burnham has done that.And he's offered hope and change.And I have to say, and again, I don't want to be harsh with Keir, Keir has to recognise that actually I think it is time to move on.So let's plan it properly.Let's not divide the party.

Let's try and do it with a bit of dignity and a bit of what we describe in the party as comradeship.And what if he doesn't?I think that's going to be very difficult.I can't.I've worked with Keir.So is Jess.

I actually do think, I think he's a responsible person, I actually do think he'll put the party and the country before his own career.That's my view and I'm hoping that happens.

Jess, your reaction to that result?

I mean, look, it's an absolutely phenomenal result, notwithstanding by -elections are weird things.And this was certainly the weirder of the by -election, end of the spectrum.So, it's a phenomenal result and gives him a huge platform to make those arguments when he arrives in Westminster on Monday.I think—look, I think it is—it's he's absolutely right in what he said.I'm just going to say this, like the people of his constituency were some of the nicest people I'd ever come across in all my life campaigning.And yeah, I think I think he comes with a huge boost behind him for change that John talks about.

And when I say don't fall for the spin, one of the reasons it sees especiallyBut we know that it is also precisely the sort of seat that has culturally, philosophically, politically, it's been drifting little by little away from the Labour Party.And we saw what happened with the local election results where Labour got absolutely smashed.Six weeks later, here he is converting that to an absolute majority in his constituency.What does that say?What is it about him?

that has enabled to do that in a way that the other candidates haven't?

Well, look, I think that you shouldn't discount what Andy Burnham actually said himself, is that lots of people lent their votes to this particular campaign and that absolutely.And I think actually that is going to be really, really important.in the general election if, like, defeating reform is absolutely the sort of—the prime target that people have to do.So, I think that there was a huge amount of tactical voting in this.But look, what it said—I mean, Andy Burnham will know better than me on what he said it has said, is that people want change.And actually, they said that by voting for reform in the local elections and they're saying it now by voting for Andy Burnham.

People are desperate for change.

John, you talk about a transition.What would your ideal timetable be?If the Prime Minister is willing to accede to the idea of a transition, what sort of timetable would you think would be appropriate?Are we talking July?Are we talking party conference?What do you think?

as soon as possible.My ideal transition would be for the members of the cabinet to see him over the weekend or Monday and have a frank discussion, plan an exit.There are some things that came upwant to make sure is delivered.Hillsborough, for example, things like that.Let him lead on that and get that through.

And then by the time we get to the conference in September, we'll have had a new leader in place, and we use that conference to lift us again.The drawback of tonight, this is a tremendous victory for Andy.I think there's two messages.One, there's a progressive majority against reform and people have let them have their votes because they want to block reform.And secondly, they do want change.So there's the opportunity of discussing that change.

But I don't underestimate the Scottish results tonight as well, which were pretty grim for us.And again, that is a discussion that needs to be had within the Scottish Labour Party about their leadership.

What about the argument that number 10 have been putting forward which is to say that okay?This is all very well and good But now the Labour Party's got another job to do as a result of his standing in Makerville Which is that there is a by -election which has to take place in Greater Manchester and number 10 are saying that they would like him to to be part of that campaign and that that should happen first before the leadership is decided.

from what we know from yourselves in the media, is that Mike Sweeney is back in action again.I think that's a disaster.Do you agree with that, Geoff?

I'm not sure how much he is back, but obviously I have heard the same rumours that everybody else has heard.And look, we should try and remember why he had to leave.And it's a sort of pretty shameful, as far as I'm concerned, episode in the Labour Party with regard to Peter Mandelson.But fundamentally, it doesn't matter if McSweeney isn't like some sort of magician.It's down to Keir Starmer to make this decision.And even I respect John saying that, like, the cabinet should go in.

And there's quite a lot of lots of people should make this happen.It is down to Keir Starmer to make this decision and I hope that he makes it.

It is but normally and when you're in a situation like that you need to be persuaded.

But what would you say I mean Keir Starmer here and other advocates say well hang on a minute you know okay Andy Burnham's just got his mandate, very impressive result.Prime Minister got a mandate.In 2024, a huge mandate, one of only four men to have ever got a majority for the Labour Party in history.Why should he defer, with the greatest respect to the people of Makefield, to that one mandate from one constituency by comparison to the enormity of the general election?

Here's the problem.In the local elections, we were down to 17 % support.Andy made reference to it there as well.We're not just facing a threat to a Labour government.We're facing a threat to the existence of the Labour Party.That's how serious it is.

We've never been this low in the polls before.And secondly, and again, this is brutal, but politics is brutal.Keir is the most unpopular leader we've ever had.And on the doorstep, confidence and trust is gone.And it's almost impossible to recover when you get to this stage.And we have to be Kate and all of us have to be realistic about the plight we're in.

Do you think that this means, given the size of all that, Jess I know you say you really want a contest, but it feels like it makes it less likely doesn't it, a contest?Yes, yes it does.

I'm not sure, I don't think so, I don't think so at all because I think that people have to prove themselves.And I think with regard to the delay, the genuine sort of legitimate reason for that, if Andy Burnham is or whoever, but if Andy Burnham is the rightful winner, is that all of the sort of access talks that go on within a general election.I do think he maybe needs to, there needs to be like a period where throughout any contest that that sort of thing is happening.Access talks are like during the general election with the civil service because I don't want anyone who gets there to just fall on their arse immediately.I did swear, I can't.You know what, it's half three.

No one's noticing at this point.

Don't underestimate, don't underestimate I think and his preparations in advance.I'm sure there's been lots of preparation in advance.

But John, you think there should be a coronation?

I'm like Jess, I prefer leadership elections, but the real...You tried to stand against Gordon Brown saying there shouldn't be a...I did, I did.Go back way back when.I know it's to have the debate, but let's get real on this occasion.Keir Standing, I think, would be an absolute disaster.

And I think it would be damaging for him personally.

The Jeremy Corbyn precedent.

Yeah, but literally, Who was there?I think if West Streeting stands, I think, look at the support in the party, it's got about 5%.It would be a sort of infantile self -promotion exercise.And from the left, from the left and the campaign group left, we wouldn't get on the ballot paper again because the nominations aren't there.So much as I enjoy leadership elections, et cetera, and that's what I've got into them, I actually think the reality is there won't be one, so we might as well get on with the job now of getting a new leader installed, and as a result of that stabilising the situation and taking reforms.

Jess, do you think it would be an infantile exercise for your friend Wes Streeting to say?

No, I absolutely don't think that at all.What I would also say is, how do I know that Andy Burnham is going to be a good leader of the Labour Party?a contest?

I think you judge him on his past and his experience, both in government and in Manchester, which you've already credited with previously because you've worked with him.But there's a real politics to be dealt with here.We're faced with reform still on the rise, even despite tonight.We're faced with realistically no other alternative available to us.would command the support of our members, let alone the general public.So much as I'd like, I left Kent on the ballot paper, and we showed with Jeremy anything can happen on that basis.

What you showed with Jeremy is that the favourite never wins a leadership competition.

West Streeting is the new Jeremy Corbyn.

You heard it here first.What we showed with Jeremy is that, actually, if you get the right policy programme right, you can convince the members.But I can't see either West Streeting or Keir Starmer being able to do that and command that support so it's just the real politics of where we're at so just let's get on with it now because I think we just need to get some of those policies implemented as rapidly as possible.

But John, do you know what an Andy Burnham government would do differently to a Keir Starmer government?Because he said he's going to stick to the same fiscal rules.That's the big macroeconomic question dealt with.What is it beyond vibes that Burnham would do differently?

I think, for me, I have no illusions here about any huge radical change.For me, it opens up a space to have a proper debate and discussion whilst we're in government.And on the fiscal rules, I actually think if you look at some of the advisers he's now put around him, Andy Haldane and others, I think there's a creative way of looking at those fiscal rules so we can actually ensure that we can invest on the level that we need to but also look at the redistribution of wealth and income in this country so we can tackle the levels of poverty that we've got.