Arsenal Shocked by City, Salah’s Liverpool Exit & Trent Snubbed by Tuchel | Stick to Football EP 122

Do you know something? I think Ian will be absolutely buzzing with that. Rory sent us a Masters flag for all of us. To Gary, thanks for having me on Stick To Football, all the best, Rory McIlroy. Carers? I think you can give one to Jill. I think Roy got one first up, didn't he? And Ian's going to be absolutely buzzing.

Thanks for all your support, all the best. How did Ian support him? Roy got one first up, didn't he? And Ian's going to be absolutely buzzing.

Thanks for all your support, all the best. How did Ian support him?

Emotionally.

Emotionally?

He got him...

He believed in him.

He believed in him.

Ian makes people feel good, doesn't he?

He's got that way about him, he's like that.

You could learn a few things from that.

Come on, Ben. Chill, grippy. Here we go. Oh, how nice is that?

Yo! You-hoo-hoo! There you go.

Oh, that is so nice.

Rory, I love you, Rory!

That takes away from me getting one, but you getting it as well.

It's not special, then, is it? Look, you're so bothered.

Just share the joy. You had happiness, now we do.

I can't believe it. I'm not going to give this to my mate. He'll be the first to sell it.

No, no, no, this is going to my golf club.

Yes, it is. I guarantee it's not.

It's guaranteed.

Your chance.

Yes, it is.

Tony Healey is coming to Ashford Manor, this is.

That must take forever to sign. Oh, man. Can I just put a smidgen of him in there? That's beautiful. Do you not really understand what this is?

This is so good.

That is a nice gift.

Just before the Masters starts in a couple of weeks, it's a nice gift.

That is so nice.

You're saying it in... I know, but...

There's no edge to that.

Is it? Seriously?

It's a nice gift two weeks before the Masters, eh? What are you going to do with it? What have you done with yours? I'm going to get this framed. What have you done with yours?

Don't come off this. What have you done with your flag from Rory?

What did you say?

It's in one of my cupboards, I think.

Rory, I love you.

I love you!

Yeah, get it framed. Great being with you're definitely the best. Oh no, all the best. No, you lied, you. You're such a fibber. It's all the best.

There's no way that's his real signature on you.

Of course it is.

You ain't got someone doing them all. Of course he has.

No, he hasn't.

Of course he has.

There's no way he's done that.

Of course he has. What does that mean? Even just to you, I'm supporting him. Thanks for having me on Stick to Football, all the best. This one meant the most.

He's really made an effort with that.

This one meant the most because I actually support him.

Great being with you.

Oh, no way has he done that.

This is the worst one.

I got great feeling with you.

What did you get right? Oh, I just hope the fighting? That's over the Ryder Cup stuff. We've had loads of gifts today. I don't care.

Even if he's looked at it, I still... This means the world to me.

So what are you going to do with it?

I'm going to give it to my... I'm putting it in my golf club. You've got a few horses, haven't you? Which horses?

Howard, do you want to do a picture? the thing. And we know you didn't sign them. Oh, you haven't got yours. Right, he's probably watching as well, you know.

He watches them all, so don't be mean.

Do you want to hold mine?

Sorry, I'm still holding on. Oh, sorry, H. Look, it's like my school report.

Should I go out of this picture?

Nice one, H.

Stick to Football is brought to you by Arm Clothing. He must have got to a really low point in his mind to think,

I've got to get out of here.

Not get out of here as in Liverpool, I've got to get out of here.

Have a rest. Mo Salah, to be fair, sits there on the bench.

It just feels awkward. This generation of Chelsea supporters expect to win something silver. They're not into this building for the future. Rhys James is injured, Kyle Walker and Trippier are pretty much retired and Trent's

still not in. You'd be going, what's going on? Arsenal get overreacting to everything. The fans, the pundits.

Are you saying after three years of trying to win something.

Every team's trying to win something. Are you going to turn up for the podcast if they don't win the league? We're trying to win something. Are you going to turn up for the podcast if they don't win the league?

Of course I'm going to go.

We're trying to have anything to hold onto that can make us feel like we're going to get over this line.

The back.

Get in, in.

You stress me.

Weren't youse meant to have City tops on today? Yes. You and Righty, that was the bet.

Do you know what?

No, it wasn't.

It was, it's in the group. We all said... Yes, go on, Jill, get your phone on.

You get it.

We all said... Too many messages. ...City to win, youse two said Arsenal. Yeah.

And money to charity? We said Arsenal. I was certain Arsenal would win.

Why can you be certain Arsenal were going to win?

That's the most ridiculous thing you've ever said.

The one he does. Are you sure they were going to win? I love your one. He goes, I fancy Arsenal to win, but never write off Pep Guardiola.

That's my point.

Every time I wrote fail. I went all in on Sunday. You say that on every game. I went all in on Sunday. But why? I was certain Arsenal were going to win. I was certain Arsenal were going to win.

But why?

Let me tell you. Do you know why I said as well? I said 3-1 was going to win. Obviously, once it started, it changed. But it changed. But, like, leading into it, with the couple of weeks before, even the match staff and SA scoring, there was no reason for us to believe that they're going to go to a game like that

and not play to a certain level. I actually said, listen, even if we lose, as long as we lose at doing the right things, it's going to keep us going.

You thought you'd win. When did you say this? When you were on Sky?

On Sky, yeah. When you were walking for Sky, yeah. I was on ITV on Skype. Right. So don't try and change it. I was on ITV for Skype. He's a hybrid. I didn't actually.

I don't even know if I got paid to be honest. Do you know what it was?

He just turned up at Wembley and he just... I just thought, I've thought for a number of years, you have to go and wound your direct opponent if you're going to go and win a league. They've got City nine points in front in the league, City have dropped points in the league, City have just gone out of Europe against Real Madrid. To be fair, it's been a difficult one for them. Arsenal, you've got them on the ropes here.

This is where you really do drag.

It was a cup final, Lev.

I know, but you're thinking, this is the moment, Arsenal, where you've got to basically make them think that it's now us. I couldn't believe that they didn't step up in the second half. I couldn't believe it. I was shocked, actually, at what I saw in the second half.

You know what?

That's what happens in these cup finals. There can be a big disappointment for certain teams. You just don't turn up.

Yeah, I mean, Arsenal, to be fair, quite reliable, Roy. You wouldn't expect them not to turn up. I mean, Arsenal have been reliable. No, but just generally, they don't let you down in games like they did on Sunday in the second half. They don't normally disappoint that much. I mean, that was a real freeze.

Last year against Newcastle over the two legs, never turned up in the cup matches last year. So they have got that cup match.

What was that, the, eight games left? What is it? Seven, eight games left? You're not... What disappointed me more than anything else, I wasn't expecting the performance to be that low.

I agree.

That's all it was. I thought we'd at least have a go at it. This group have never won a trophy. They're six years without a cup as a club. They've only won sort of like... I just think you've got City probably where you want them. I mean, Erling Haaland's statement before the game in that huddle,

something... What was it? He was saying, let's show the world we're still here. We're still here.

That's not just a window stopped by the Wolves.

So they know that the pressure's on them in terms of thinking

everyone thinks they've gone a little bit. Arsenal have let them off the hook. I think City wanted it more though, do you not think? Because even in the times when I think Arsenal had a period in the first half, but City were still aggressive in the first and second balls, and I just think they wanted it more.

I don't know Jill, I'm always wary when you say teams want it more. Listen, it was a big mistake by the goalkeeper, but if Arsenal go on and win the league,

which we all probably would agree they probably will do. You get over these disappointments. I just, I fancy City, not because I think City are better, I just thought Arsenal's record this season, I think they've only lost three games in 49. Nor have Average is going on. I just thought sometimes we've all been in teams and you're going along well and you just now and again, you lose a, and that's easy to say... Forest gave them a couple of points.

I think it could have had an effect, I just think the gap's too big now. But my big thing about Arsenal all season is, and it's probably every team in the Premier League really, and we'll get to that with Salah, there's not enough special players in the Premier League. But when I look at Arsenal as the best team in this league, only lost three or four games in 50, which is an amazing record, I still look at your attack and just go,

it's okay. There's no like, there's no salary. There's no like star player. And I just think in that cup final, sometimes when you're not playing well, you need someone.

Like what has he done for you?

Tell us, last season. Something special and I don't think you've got enough special players in the attacking that and worry me a little bit for the Champions League.

Do you not think Saka's one of them players though? I know he probably didn't have his best game but...

No but I thought two years ago Saka and Odegaard would look alike I was thinking oh God these are the real deal, these are like... This is going to be like Salah and De Bruyne type of... They're nearly there and they just never sort of... The team are probably going to win the league, but I think if Arsenal win the league this season, I don't think one of the attacking players will go,

I've had an amazing season, I've been brilliant this season. I don't know, it just doesn't seem to have clicked. You said just before, because we both thought Arsenal were going to win, you said even gap's big and we're talking hypothetically here but the gap's six points if City win the game in hand

and City have got to play them at the Etihad so City will be smelling a little bit of... and just in the second half on Saturday I just thought, I thought the first half was even, did anyone think the first half was easy, 50-50? Yeah, especially that first chance that we had as well. Half time I thought, it's on track, this, for an Arsenal set piece. But the way they started the second half,

basically playing in their own box and just playing negatively and sort of not...

It was very slow from the start.

It was slow.

And even, Jayme, with that 4-2-4, right? Obviously that's something that you've said, you've seen it before, I think he'd done that because of Kepper, because he was going a lot slower than normally. But I just felt like we couldn't get out.

We saw that in the Premier League a couple of years ago, where a lot of teams were doing that set-up. So when I saw it, it was a little bit like, OK, that was a couple of years ago. You saw teams doing that with Eustad, that forward, almost not pressing, but almost just blocking the the passes into midfield. And sometimes something can surprise you. I was just so shocked that when Arsenal came off with the second half there wasn't something different to play through it.

And I thought that first 15, 20 minutes was so bad for Arsenal. City done great and I thought Rodri and Bernardo Silva were amazing, fantastic. But I just thought it was so bad from Arsenal to allow City...

They didn't have to do much to be amazing. They didn't have too much to be amazing.

I couldn't imagine City overpowering them. They couldn't get out their own half.

The thing is that what we were doing is that, and then the balls up into Jocares, kind of like looped up, easily came back and they were straight at us again. It just, then Zubermandi, you have to look at it, probably look at his numbers, of the worst games he's had for us. We didn't have anybody who could win the ball. And they gave it away cheaply. Yeah, and it just felt like one of those,

it's the kind of a performance from an Arsenal side that you're not expecting to see anymore. And this is why, I was more like, how did I feel after? I just felt, why do I feel, I felt so sad.

I felt like my... You can have off days, we've all been there, we've all been to have cup finals where you go it was a poor game and you're hoping for a mistake from somebody else, somebody to do something special But I wouldn't, if I was an ass you'd be disappointed, I wouldn't be panicking You'd be using that cup final and you'd win on the one in the league, what was that? 2000 and...

2002, 2003 maybe Yeah, 2000 What was my worst ever Cup Final? I had a terrible game. I think it was 2-0 didn't you? Oh, 2-0 yeah. It was terrible, it was at Cardiff, we were shocking that day. We didn't turn up, look you don't turn up in a Cup Final, it is unusual that a team that's reliable ordinarily doesn't turn up. But on Sunday I just thought, if you're Arsenal's players, in 2002 when we lost that final to be fair, we got a right kick up the backside after it as you'd imagine, but there were a lot of players in that dressing room who'd been used to winning and thought, right, okay, I've been there before, we've lost before in semifinals and finals. I just wonder what

that Arsenal dressing room, which hasn't won, none of them have really won a trophy apart from maybe one or two, how did they come out of that? Maybe it's a good thing the international breaks, but how do they come out of that knowing that they've not rocked up in a big moment? Does that set a little bit of a doubt for the rest of the season? Does that give them a bit of a chance?

Yeah, but the thing is, like I say, from Arsenal fans, you've got this massive build-up with everything that was going on with Max Downs when he scored at Everton and then you've Yeah, but this is what I'm saying, so what happens is with our players, and remember, we're talking about trying to finish off something we've been trying to finish for the last three seasons, and we're in that, we're right in the middle of it now. And of course there's going to be some doubts, but I think you have to still take the positives from it.

Raya will come back, hopefully Martin Erdegaard will come back. What were the positives from Sunday apart from the fact that we'll get players back, the goalkeeper will be back. Even the goal, the first goal, there's no way Reyak makes that kind of mistake. So that doesn't happen. Maybe we could hang out till half-time

and then he might change it. He might change something. Maybe if Kai scores that goal, things might change a bit, a bit more confidence into the team. But like, that mistake, then with the way the guys were playing, it just felt like City just felt like they could just...

I'm surprised that you're so surprised about the result, because what happens in football is you are going long nicely, you have got the momentum, your form is great, young lads are doing well. That's exactly what happens when you're going long nicely. A team like Man City trip you up. And we're talking about... It's not as if they lost the Cup Final to a lesser team or a team like near in the bottom.

I've not recognised that kind of performance.

That's what happens.

But you know what happened there in the next two or three games, in league games, where you go, oh my God, we're really off. And now it's a Cup game. The league form was brilliant, I certainly wouldn't panic But take your medicine as well, you've had a bad, weird bad days Your memory plays tricks, you think every team turns over for a cup final and turns Wembley can be a big pitcher, if you're not quite at it, you do get Sean Oxon

They've had a number of chances Arsenal over the last few years to wound their direct opponent late on in the season was a real big opportunity for them to sort of sit one on City at a point where City were a little bit lower than they would be, there's a little bit of doubt there, I thought that was a real moment to step up and to be fair you can lose a game I get what you're saying but to not rock up and play in the second half and not even respond, look let's say you go 2-0 down and that happened and the keeper to be fair caused himself a problem when he come out for the one with Doku I think, was it Doku? Yeah that's right, yeah. He'd already sort of stopped the motion. Yeah. But when you go 2-0 down, you're even then at 2-0, I'm thinking right, okay I'm expecting a goal here from Arsenal, a response,

I'm expecting it to be a little bit more frantic last 10 minutes. We didn't get anything.

The priority for them obviously is winning that league. The only positive was it wasn't in the league. Yeah. And they beat Man City up against Pep. Why all of a sudden we think, well Pep's... Man City probably should have won it on Arsenal in the last season.

So as bad as City can be off it, when they turn it on, they're still one of the best teams in the world.

Stick to Football is brought to you by Arm Clothing.

This episode is brought to you by Visit Seattle, host city of the FIFA World Cup 2026. Kieran, where have you been, my friend?

I've been to Seattle to see how they're shaping up for the World Cup.

What's it like compared to Liverpool?

Do you know what? It felt like a European city in America. It was right in the middle of it? Right in the city. Both of the stadiums are right next to each other, almost like in Paris.

OK, and one of them is going to be a World Cup stadium?

Yes, that's Lumenfield. Yeah, and how show you what I got up to, Gary. Oh, it's nice to be served the hot drinks for a change, isn't it, Ben? Well, Ben, we're on our own little overlap on Soar, aren't we? We've been invited out to Seattle. It's my first time in the States, and I'm absolutely buzzing to be here.

There's gonna be six games here. So we wanna showcase the city and what it's got to offer.

What makes you qualified to talk about a football city?

I wouldn't say I'm a very well-travelled person, Ben, but I am in terms of football. I've obviously followed Liverpool around Europe. I'm talking to you now and I'm looking out onto the waterfront. There's a football stadium in the background, there's a wheel. It's almost like a home away from home, this.

Just I don't have to look at Everton Stadium. I'm looking at Lumen Field instead, which is a bit of a bonus. We are at Lumen's Field. This is the home of Seattle Sounders and Seattle Seahawks. They share the stadium. FIFA have taken control of the stadium from this week. Hence we can't get in. It's an impressive ground, isn't it?

So there's six games here, four group stage games, and then there's a round of 32 knockout stage and a round of 16 knockout stage match. How does the stadium look to you, K? Do you know what? I like grounds that have a bit of character, something different about them. It's measured on the Richter scale a few times, apparently. Like when Seattle Seahawks made it to the Super Bowl.

I don't think there's anywhere better in terms of its proximity to the city. You walk out of here and you're only a mile down the road to downtown. You're not taking an hour out of your day just to travel to the stadium. There's baseball stadiums literally across the road. The home of the Mariners and their season's going to coincide with the World Cup. So if you were to come here, you could spend Saturday at Lumenfields. I hope there's a game on Saturday, I said that. Sunday, watching the Mariners.

Quite a good weekend as weekends go, that, innit?

Do you like stadiums, Ke? I love them.

We are in the Mega Store and we're going to see if we can get a few gifts for our guys back on the Stick to Football show.

What do you get five people who've got everything?

I think righty would appreciate some of the Adidas Seattle trainers. I'm going to get a Seahawks top for Roy, a hoodie for Jill maybe. I hate shopping for people, honestly.

Aaron, how do you think he's doing?

Terrible.

Who do you think is going to be most pleased with their gift key?

I think Roy. He'll appreciate it. He's a big NFL fan. Thank you so much. Let me get my personal card out to pay for this. Can I get a receipt, please?

LAUGHTER

You've not got anything for Gary, have we?

What shall we get for Gary?

Kieran, what are you doing?

I'm getting kitted out to catch a fish, Ben.

What do I do? Hands up just like that.

So I've got to catch it? All you've got to do is grab it. It's alive.

It's alive.

It's alive. No, it's not alive.

Just don't hug it, all right?

Just catch it. Catch it out.

Catch it out of here.

Do you want to show me how it's done first?

Got it, man.

Just, boom, just like that.

Nice and close.

All right. Three! Yeah! Backjack! Three!

Yeah! I didn't want to drop that. That would make it worse for me, wouldn't it?

Jeez, that was good fun.

We are in Mo-Pop. Pop museum in Seattle. It's impressive, I don't really know where to look. Kirk Cobain's one is just here. That's impressive. I don't really know where to look. Any good ones? Kurt Cobain's one is just here. That's quite cool, innit? I did get alright in the pandemic, you know.

Do you know what I can't do? I can't do the, erm... What do they call it? The chords where you put your whole finger...

Oh, yeah.

Can you do, er, You'll Never Walk Alone? Can I f***? You could spend a good day here though, Kee, couldn't you? Yeah, the four-finger cheat is a bit easier, isn't it?

Are you Ben?

No.

What are you asking me?

You could spend a good day here, couldn't you?

Absolutely. You could lose track of time in here, definitely. But just don't miss kick-off, if you come here before the match. Kieran, where are you? I'm at the Space Needle, Ben. Iconic to Seattle.

I think we're going up here.

I'm a bit nervous to be honest. I'm not great with heights, so this is going to be interesting. How you feeling, Kieran? Trying not to look out, Ben. As beautiful as it is, by the way.

Oh, wow.

Is this going to start spinning? I'm not sure I can deal with that. Pretty much see everywhere we've been, Ben. There's nowhere you can't see from here. You'll probably be able to hear the World Cup from here as well. Just being over there. Big fan of this scene.

Up on here?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay. Oh, can I get down yet, Ben?

Yes, I'm done. I need a pint and a pie. We're at George and the Dragon pub. This could easily be a pub in England, this. It's brilliant. Clearly a lot of Arsenal fans in Seattle, though, isn't there? Righty would love it in here. What would you do in Seattle as a tourist?

Advise people coming over? Paddleboarding on the water.

On the water?

You would go on a hot tub, dude.

Cheers.

Cheers, man.

To Seattle.

To Seattle. I think we should come back in the World Cup. I'd like to come and watch Egypt, actually.

That's unbelievable.

Look at that view.

It's time to plan your World Cup trip of a lifetime.

Find out more at visitseattle.org.

We need to speak about how good O'Reilly was though. I think he's like a secret weapon because he's playing at left back, but then he's obviously taking up the central midfield positions. He can do it all and the engine to be able to get into the box, but then still be... I think he was absolutely incredible.

What's unbelievable about him is how much faith Pep Guardiola has in him.

Well played, Jane.

Man City are one of those teams where you don't... Probably when Pep first came in, we could name the City team. Now Pep's always changing formation or different players. He plays in midfield, he plays at left back. His first game, not his first game, but the first game he changed the game. If you remember last season, City were worried about making the top four, made a few sign-ins in January. There was a game at Bournemouth, I was watching it on Sky,

and Bournemouth think we're winning one the other half time, it might have been an FA Cup game it was something, and that lad made the difference when he came on at half time

it was definitely a way of Bournemouth and from then, he's just been like... You see the goal he gave away against Real Madrid a few weeks ago, remember he just got caught up and then you're thinking Pep afterwards might go, sometimes Pep would punish a young player going, I'll take you up for a while. But he has that trust in him going, yeah, you're going to make mistakes, of course, like all players, particularly defensively. And I think what he has with him, and that's why he's doing well.

The trust of a manager, even the big games, going, no, I'm going to stick with you.

We've got young players at Arsenal. I'm not sure they get the same kind of faith. I'm going to play him, I don't care if he makes it, I'm going to play him. How do you get the confidence otherwise?

I honestly think on Sunday, and I've only thought this really after the game going home, if I'd have made the two mistakes in Madrid which he made which the first one obviously doesn't read the flight of the ball and Valverde to be fair is a brilliant player does him and then he does him on the second goal I think is when he runs inside him from sort of the out to in run and we've all been done with that run as a fullback and I'm thinking you know something I'm struggling to recover from that mentally because I'm thinking I've cost us the

European Cup and I did it. Remember who young players playing against Real Madrid. And I'm thinking for O'Reilly to come back within two weeks from that, in Real Madrid, it was a bit of a sobering night for him to be fair because it would have hurt him. To come back from that after being two weeks ago in Madrid with Valverde giving him a little bit of a lesson,

which is a good lesson for him by the way, he'll know how to do it,

is exceptional for him. player, you know, who's playing, who makes the cut. If you're going to make mistakes and it's going to be against Real Madrid, at least you're in the vicinity. So you say, right, I've learned from that. You know what I mean? I've mentioned like, I've mentioned Miles Lewis-Skelly when he played against Real Madrid last time,

at an unbelievable game. And then he's kind of been dropped back out of it. Yes, on Sunday, a left-back who can invert what we need is somebody comfortable on the ball if he didn't have. That's the game he should be playing in. Because then he's somebody who can get on the ball and at least we can link.

His third choice, what do you think of that Ian? Let's just stick on it for a minute because he's gone from being a massive talent,

is a massive talent, to third choice left-back now for Arsenal. There's no way, Miles Lewis-Skelling, the way he started his career, he hasn't got the capability to go on and do, I'm not saying he's going to do exactly what O'Reilly's done, but the confidence it gives him in playing is going to be a lot probably more confident than he is right now. He can't get into the team at the moment,

whether it's behind Incapie, or if it's behind Calafiore. Whereas this guy is a footballer. And we needed a footballer on Sunday. And those are the things that I'm sitting there watching us do. Watching us do nothing. And I'm thinking to myself, if the Arsenal fans saw someone like him come on

and do a couple of things, everybody, it gets us going. It gets people going again. That's a disappointment for me.

Do you think there's almost that much pressure on Arsenal to win the league or win something with Arteta this season? Once the league's won, we all think they'll win the league. Everyone's just almost like, so you could maybe think, I'll drop a Lewis Skelly in there now and again every few games. What he did last season was unbelievable. That performance in Wimbledon was like... He's going to go on to do special things you would imagine on the back of doing that at 18, 19. Do you think it's almost this thing of they can't take any risk whatsoever?

Everyone on the team is big, solid, strong. We've got to almost just power our way to this title.

Because we're not playing with the kind of... You know when you see a team who's going towards the title and they finish it off, they get more and more confident with the game. They said, they only need to win another couple and they're confident and they win the... When, I think as Arsenal fans, we've not had that at any stage during the season

where you feel like, okay, yeah, well, this feels like comfortable for a bit. Like even the highs of the, like I mentioned the Max Thelman and the Eze, you've got such a high, you think, oh, the team's really in that place where they're confident, and then you get a performance like that, Roy,

as much as you're saying it's like, it can happen. It's just, it feels so feast and family at the moment. We're trying to have anything to hold onto that can make us feel like we're gonna get over this line. Now, I do believe we'll do it because of the gap, but it's not making it any easier. That's what I'm trying to say. It's meant to be a little bit easier, please, Royce.

Honestly, I can't even watch the game sitting down.

Your nine points clear. Yeah, but like Gary mentioned, it's nine points. Jamie, did you mention it?

Or did you mention it? Nine points clear.

Game in hand.

And you've got to play them. They might go and draw at City. I think it's psychological, isn't it? If you'd offered Arsenal that at the start of the season,

nine points clear with seven games to go... Look at how many... Jamie, you're talking about the guy who's going to score.

People are now mentioning at-players.

They've won the most games, they've scored the most goals.

I can't sit here and act like I'm going to be so confident. I'm nervous because I want us to win.

It's good to be nervous. It gives you a different type of energy. They've won the most games, scored the most goals, conceded the least, and you're sitting here...

Shitting yourself.

Thank you.

Thanks for that, Roy.

If Arsenal win the league, though, I think they'll get over this massive psychological barrier and they'll go on to... I think, have you ever had them teams where you just needed to beat them once? And then I remember the Euros, we played Germany in the February and we beat them.

And I think without that win, we wouldn't have beat them in the final, but it's just that belief that you've done it and then you can do it again. But did you ever have them teams?

No, you do. We had it with Juventus I think in Europe many years ago where we had to get over that line of beating them and I think eventually, obviously the famous game where Roy scores the header. That changed the whole belief that we could win the Champions League because we'd been taken to school by them for three or four previous years. That's my point around Arsenal with City.

I just felt Sunday was the point where you go and basically lift the trophy, you're nine points clear, they're on the ropes a little bit from Real Madrid and in the league and you think, right, drill them into the ground, finish them off, put them down. It's a missed opportunity but you've still got a chance in a couple of weeks

to put it in.

And I wouldn't put it past them to go...

Would you take a draw at City? Oh, 100%. You'd take a draw at City? Oh, 100%. You'd take a draw? You're just saying about putting a marker down. If you think about the times where Arsenal... If you were Arsenal and got the seed in a few weeks... If you think when Arsenal won the league,

over Mars at Old Trafford, Viltorde at Old Trafford, you think of the big moments where you just go and win. I just asked you then, you said, I do feel there is an element of Arsenal, to step up and truly believe it, they have to do something a little bit different and exceptional. They might get over the line without that.

I don't think we have to do anything.

Maybe they don't have to beat City. Maybe it's something that, ultimately, I look at historically and think that gives you the belief to think, we've gone and done it, we've sneaked a big game win. That's what I think. Just quickly, one more point. You were quite harsh at the end on the selection of Kepper. You said that Kepper basically was owed nothing by Arsenal Football Club,

by Michael Atterton.

You don't think he should have played? No, I don't. I'm not a big fan of swapping the goalkeepers. I understand you've got to give them games because the harmony in the squad. And also if your goalkeeper got injured in the Premier League he's got to be sharp, he's got to be ready, he's got to play a few games

So I get like the early FA Cup games, early Carabao Cup games I don't like the final stuff This idea that you owe this one person in your squad this thing of playing a Cup final when you've got millions of supporters around the world who are like paying the money we can make out till I go and watch you win. Now if you're playing for a team who win quite a lot, listen if City was a lost at the weekend wouldn't it be in that big a deal for City to lose? It feels like a big deal

for Arsenal to lose for me because of the reasons you've said and they're still gonna get that question asked can you get over the line and I just think the way Teter is as a manager, he's quite ruthless, he looks, you know, he means business on the side of the pitch. That's just like, no. And the reason I'm quite hard on back-up goalkeepers, I don't have much time for them. They get paid to not play.

So, you know, they... I love them. They're the only ones who do the breadth of shooting at the end. You need a good goalkeeper, you've got to give them the right few quid to make sure they get paid probably more than what they should because you're not going to play, just keep the… and to say he's got to play in the Carabao Cup final, not a chance.

Yeah but I think that's not the case with James Trafford though surely because we're

talking about a £35m goalkeeper and our goalkeeper costs £5m. what Mikel's done is he's probably promised Kepper at the start of the season, you will play in this competition. And he's probably dug his, you know, he's probably to be fair, had to follow through with it. But I think Karam made a good point on Sunday about James Trafford. He was brought in as the number one in the city. And then obviously Pep changed his mind and brings Donnarumma in.

So he's almost in some ways got a doubt. He is, he's a better goalie. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's a much better goalie.

You know what? At the end of the day, it's unfortunate for Kepper because we know he's got history in this tournament. But for him to have a mistake like that in a game where... Or a time, I should say, for Arsenal when we ideally... We needed to win that game, you know what I mean? You're crying in a minute. We needed to win the game. No, I'm trying to explain it in a way

without being too deep and emotional. The thing is, for us to win that game, Roy, if Raya was in goal, even if Raya was in goal, it would still be questionable with the way we performed. But I think it was more important for Arsenal to try and win that game, then it was for… Do you know what Arsenal are getting like? Arsenal are overreacting to everything, Arsenal.

The fans…

Am I overreacting now?

The pundits, ex-Arsenal players…

Are you saying after three years of trying to win something… Every team's trying to win something. We're getting to the last…

Every team's trying to win something.

It's making Arsenal on their own. not done it at this stage of the season. So I'm supposed to be bouncing around? No, not bouncing around. You're literally crying going, -"I'm not crying!" -"We needed to win that." All the other teams want to win trophies.

Of course we need to win that trophy for that dressing room.

But if you win the league, will you be all right with this cup final? Would you write that cup final off?

If you win the league? but at the moment I'd want that as something to alleviate my stress, man. There you go. They're back.

Ian's stressed. He didn't have them two weeks ago.

Are you going to turn up for the podcast if they don't win the league?

Of course I will.

We're going to win the league.

I feel like you'll be so sad.

I will be sad if we don't win the league, but I'll still turn up.

Of course you will. I feel like you'll be so sad. I will be sad if we don't win the league. But like, I'll still turn up. Okay.

Of course he will.

Yeah.

LAUGHTER

Don't say that, right?

That's a meanie pass.

He's savvy.

From what we've heard.

LAUGHTER

Yes.

He is savvy.

The thing is as well, if I'm a forward, I'm thinking, right, it's not even their main two. In fact, nothing.

I'd say Pep's done it with a few players. I didn't think that Rodri in his first season was brilliant. I didn't think that Mahrez in his first season was brilliant.

And Kusanoff, I thought differently than your Kusinoff a year ago. I'd have got his tackle after about 25 minutes, remember? Oh, yeah. It'd be crazy.

You know what, with a marker down, wouldn't it?

This is what I'm saying. With a player like Kusinoff, if I'm playing against him, like, I'm going to make sure that I want to bring him in to goal because he wants to win everything. He's quick. You've got to be saying to the midfielders, listen, if you see me running with him, I'm going that way. Whatever I'm doing, get it over there.

You've got to move him, because he's so quick on his recovery as well. You've got to get there to get off.

You're talking about what you were doing. You had sharpness about you. Jokeres doesn't have that, to be fair.

Neither does Havertz. of something going in that. And all of a sudden they just manage them after that. Yeah, but let's say if you put... If you put a fair... No, but Justin Leroy, I think when centre forwards in the first 5-10 minutes get a little bit of a sort of... You hold a couple up, you get a little bit of something.

I think, actually, you centre half, have the pace and that to beat, but if you put Teddy Shearingham up against someone like that, Teddy would still have an impact on the game.

He can't do that.

No, but Teddy can't do that, but he will at least hold it, because if we're saying that Jokerez can't go that way,

he could still be able to hold it. You still need to buy a centre-forward. Ian, what Teddy would have done with Kusinov would just pull away from him on the little diagonal and Kusinov would have edged towards him and it would have left something in there.

He would have pulled him out of position a little bit.

Yeah, but what I'm saying is Teddy would have a plan for our campaign against Kusinov because he's so quick. But that's what you need. As a striker, you say, I need to do something to affect him so even if I can't do it, someone else can. And that's what we need, that's the calibre we need. But out of all the grounds in the world we've played at,

when you're not at it and you're quite off it,

Wembley's a happy place. And it sucks your legs, it's like a sponge.

I remember City are still good at keeping it and you're like, I tell you. It's tough when you're not at it. four FA Cup finals. Yeah. Thank you. Well done, Jill.

You know who you could have done with? Brobby from Sunderland. That's who you could have done with. He was magnificent. And I had a double on Sunderland and City.

You did.

You had a good Sunday, Jill.

You had a good Sunday, Jill.

But we had a bet. I don't like it. From one club in crisis to another club in crisis, Liverpool. You didn't even give Sunderland a shout-out.

Come on, last few minutes winner.

We were going to start with Sunderland and Newcastle.

But we didn't.

But we just didn't.

It was a great win.

It was a great win.

Don't get carried away.

It was a great win.

It was a brilliant win. Don't go overboard, they'll all think you're getting giddy. You set off a whole host of texts on Sunday on our group where you said, Sunderland and City, and I came back and said, draw and Arsenal.

Yeah.

You said City and Newcastle.

Yep.

You said City.

I just said City. Yeah, you said Arsenal and...

I think you said Newcastle.

I didn't say Newcastle.

I think you said Newcastle. I didn't say Newcastle. I think you did. I said Spurs. You're saying anything you didn't say.

Definitely. And then you replied that there'd be a forfeit.

We have to wear a City kit or an Arsenal kit depending on who loses. It's not quite materialised.

And someone has to give something to charity.

We gave something to charity but then, yeah.

LAUGHTER

I didn't rule it out, I didn't rule it out. I'm just trying to lure a little bit. St Patrick over there sort of intervened.

Yeah.

We're looking for the best of Stan, surely. Stick to Football is brought to you by Arn Clothing. This segment is brought to you by Microsoft Co-Pilot as part of their partnership with the Premier League. This is interesting, this one. Let's ask the Premier League companion

powered by Microsoft Co-Pilot. Which reigning Premier League champions have lost the most matches in the following season? And we've got a situation here where there is seven teams I've got.

Who've got worse than Liverpool?

No, no, no, no.

Who are the teams?

Leicester, the obvious one. Leicester has got to be the obvious one, no? Leicester.

Chelsea the year after Jose. So Leicester are top, number one, with 18 defeats.

I can back order this now, you do the rest, I've got time.

Chelsea. Chelsea are right, but there's two Chelseas in there. Which year? Angiolatti. Where Jose lost his, was it about 14, 15? Yeah.

And 16, 17.

Yeah, so that's the season after with Conte, his second season. Angiolatti, where did he finish? This Liverpool team must be in it. This Liverpool team are currently the sixth worst champion.

What about Man City?

Liverpool would clap when they won it.

No.

What about City, Art?

What about City? Blackburn. Blackburn the second. The Blackburn one of 94, 95. So you've got Leicester number one, Blackburn number two, you've got Chelsea number four and five,

you've got this Liverpool team who could clap. So we've only got one more team?

So one more team? No, no, no. You need to name the third one, that's it. We'll just go for the top five. The third one, I think you should remember it. It's quite a...

If you think about it, you'll kick yourselves.

You'll kick yourselves?

I don't know.

They can't be Arslan because they didn't win any of them.

Shut your mouth.

You're such a wind-up.

Who's got the... He's stressed. Nadine Bynes clearly stressed. Is it recent did you say, Gal? Well, it's within the last 30 years of the Premier League.

What about Leeds? No.

No?

Leeds.

Too far back. That's way back, isn't it?

Alex Ferguson.

Moyes.

Yes. Yes, the Moyes season.

And how many defeats did we have? But Moyes had a six-year contract.

Was it 12? Jamie, thanks for being here.

How the hell did you know that?

These quizzes aren't fun with Jimmy because he just knows everything.

So here we go.

The Manchester United team, 12 losses. 12, yeah.

13, 14. How many games did you play that season? Are you winding me up? I've retired. Just checking. For every moment that makes you a fan, from club history to your favourite players, go to the Premier League Companion, powered by Co-Pilot, in the Premier League app.

Let's move on to the big story that started last night, which to be fair, did it shock you?

Mo Salah, that's a big name. Yeah, I was out having a meal with my dad's birthday and I got a text message, yeah. Just when I come through on his socials. I think it's the right decision for everyone really, I think it's good, the way he did it. International break, no games around, gives everyone to prepare to move on. Fans, I mean, I'm sure the club and him and his adviser

have probably been speaking with him since probably January. And I think it's probably, yeah, it's right for everyone. It's very strange. I think right now, but I think, I think for the, when you think of the Champions League this year, I think there's a lack of quality in the Premier League. I think we lost to Bruin last season.

Superstar, we're losing a superstar now. So I think it's, obviously they're not the same players now, but I think there's a real lack of sellers in the Premier League right now. So it will be a bad miss. And naturally when you announce you're retiring or moving on, you don't think of now, you look back, don't you?

You just think, wow, you look at all the numbers now and what he's achieved as a player. And funny enough, I went into Liverpool's offices, LFCTV, to do something on the Kop, and they're doing something about the top 10 greatest Liverpool players.

So all the fans are voting and they're getting ex-players to come in and it was only the day before so whatever day that was and I put Salah sixth on all-time greatest ever Liverpool players

That's bizarre

Why?

As in, should be higher, should be lower.

What do you mean, bizarre?

Well, he said that he's the second greatest Premier League player of all time, but the sixth greatest Liverpool player.

That seems like a strange correlation. No, I said foreign player. Did I? No, I said... I thought you said Salah's... I said in terms of foreign players... Salah's second to Thierry Henry, but he's the sixth Liverpool player.

OK, well, that's debated. Would you have him? No, no, I'm asking you who... Who's my sixth?

Daglish, Gerrard, Souness, Rush, Barnes, Salah.

Salah, wow.

It is a hard ten to get into, though, isn't it?

Yeah. We've got to get in the top six.

Does this point towards... I think everyone's going to celebrate this incredible career and to be fair, his consistency has been incredible, but does it say something about what's happened at Liverpool in the last 12 months that they've... Obviously last season they've desperately tried to keep him

but you've half felt that they didn't want to keep him a little bit because it was going on for ages. Obviously they've ripped up his contract in the sense that he had a two year deal on huge money, they've both mutually agreed to rip that £20

million a year contract up. Do you find that a little bit strange? No I think it's good. I think it's good from both parties. people might say why did they let him go with he could have got a fee for him but then he's have to pay him up and he's probably said hasn't he if you don't let me go for free I'll stay and is it an acceptance that they got the decision wrong last year do you think in hindsight could they have done this last summer from Liverpool's point of view yeah but how could you not give the best player in the Premier League a new contract last season? It's just, you know, it's very difficult to say with hindsight that, and this was always

going to happen in this two-year period wasn't it? Mo Salah was not going to be the Mo Salah we know in this two-year period. It probably happened a year earlier than we thought. Maybe we thought this would be the Mo Salah next season, in his last year of his contract, because there has been a big drop-off. But is that to do with the team playing? Not as well. He's probably had a little bit of a drop-off and then the team aren't playing as well. There's new players, so it's probably affected him as well. But I think Mo Salah, the way he's driven, like a Ronaldo, I don't see the Saudi thing just yet for me.

I think I could see him in Italy with one of the Giants. They were maybe a slower paced game and he's still playing for like a... I don't know. He could still add some. I don't see that.

What about MLS maybe?

I just think your career's over when you go there and I just think he'll be still looking at his Champions League record or how many goals he can get. I still think he thinks I'm one of the best players and me leaving now, moving on from Liverpool, is not the end of my top level career. I've still got something to give.

He's obviously confident in himself, but he's probably got something sorted, you would imagine, already, because he wouldn't rip up that contract unless you had something sorted. He strikes me as the type of guy that would, to be fair, step out of a contract, because I think he's probably got that way about it, but he'll also be confident of where he's going, I would imagine. I didn't see Italy, I mean, he's done Italy, hasn't he?

No, I'm not, listen, I don't know, but I'm just thinking, I just don't see the Saudi MLS. not so much a lesser league quality-wise, but maybe a lesser league physically. Maybe, I don't know. And last one, on the timing, I mean, obviously, I think he's obviously decided that he wants it to be a sort of, almost like, not quite a parade, I suppose, because, you know, there's seven games left, there's probably only three or four games left at Anfield. He wants it to be celebrated. Do you think it's fair that he's got a right to do that?

Yeah, I think a player of that level, and that was something I said in January when all the talk about him, he went to the AFCon, will he come back? Will he play for Liverpool again? And I think I said at the time, it'd be sad if Mo Salah leaves now, you know, there's still a second half of the season you get that big send-off. And listen, it's not about a big send-off by the way, but it's nice, it's a nice thing. But the best send-off for him is in Budapest.

You know, that's what I'm sure he's thinking. He just wants his last game to be at Anfield,

he wants his last game to be in the Champions League. Now that will be, but that's what the idea should be. I'm not sure it's the idea, the timing. To announce it, I don't know why he doesn't wait until the end of the season. Because last year, there was a kind of noise coming out last year, this could be my last game at Old Trafford. He played all them games last year before he signed his new deal. And over the next few, just Liverpool finished the season really badly. And they've not been great. And he's in games. We saw it with Trent a little bit last year. Different circumstances, Trent, is he leaving and he's a bad game against United.

So you just say they come off at the last month or two and they don't do anything in the cup matches and he's not at his best. They'll be saying he's already left the club, his heart's down. I think that can turn a bit nasty. So this idea of a parade, it'd be different if they were like, But I'm not sure about the timing. I don't know why he just awaited the end of the season and go, I've done my bit.

I've got no problem with the timing to be fair.

If he has a bad game the next two or three weeks, we saw Liverpool fans booing Trent when he was playing against United. He's not quite at it. Different circumstances I know. But if Salah's jumping out attacking to people,

he's already left the building, he's up and about, especially when they're trying to battle for fourth or fifth, where you're thinking, I don't know.

Why would it be? He's having a parade when Liverpool need him to be at his best.

Well, I think so, I just don't know why not wait till the end of the season and say that's all been agreed, yeah, and I'm off, go on, right, brilliant, thanks a lot. Is it just because of that? It's a little bit sort of... Liverpool have a lot on their plate. I don't think they need... Don't turn it into another circus act like last year got a bit silly towards the end of the season. And it can turn the other way. Fans can turn on him a little bit if he's not...

and he's not been at it. And just say Liverpool fall off, they don't even get in the top four or five.

They've got teams behind them like Everton Sal is in the game and he missed one or two chances. You know what fans are like, they'll be like, he's already switched off, he's left the building.

Casemiro's done that though, hasn't he?

Yeah, Casemiro's contract was running out slightly different.

I don't agree with that either. I don't think a player should maybe announce that, I'm leaving in a couple of months, or he said a bit earlier. I mean, his contract was running out, Yeah, he's got another year left. I think they've obviously been discussing this for probably a good few weeks or a month now. So there's obviously a... So what's the benefit of announcing it? What's the big pluses?

So he can say goodbye. The pluses I suppose that if you get to the end of the season and you announce it after the last game of the season that Mo Salah doesn't get the send off that he maybe wants or the clarity. I think players like that, if you think of the Ronaldo, Salah type, they like to control their own... We had it last year with Trent, people saying Trent's not saying much, and then he said, actually I'm going to Real Madrid.

And they're carrying him anyway, they had a go at him. It was different though with Trent, wasn't it? It was the same principles, he's was poor against United and fans going, he's jumping out of tackles, he's not doing this,

he was never a great one for tackling anyway. I suspect Liverpool and Arna Slott are in a position whereby Mo Salah said, look I'd like to announce it.

They're in the...

What's the benefit Gary? They're in the very difficult position of, if we say no, you've not announced it to the end of the season and then they're gonna piss him off and he's gonna be basically walking around unhappy. How does it, I mean for Liverpool is it the right time now and for Arne Slott what does it do for him because he's the guy that at the moment is under pressure. Look I understand why he's under pressure obviously because there's been a massive drop-off but he won the league seven

months ago and I would have thought that like, the instigator. For the first time it feels like Liverpool are turning on the manager over the players, which is something that it is surprising to watch it from the outside. What does it do for Arnaud Slotnish? Does it put more pressure

on him now for the, finish the season. This will be Mo Salah's decision.

Yeah no I get it, my point is though, whichever way you look at it, I can rephrase it. He has broken his contract Jamie, he has ripped it up, he has decided to... Who has? Slott? No, no, Salah.

Yes. to cut his contract short, he's gone to the club and said he's ripped up. Salah doesn't like being subbed, that's where all the trouble starts in January, that's where obviously, you know, things I said, different people said.

What does it do for Stone now? Would it be easier for the manager to leave him out now, knowing he's leaving?

If he's not playing every game now, if you're asking Liverpool supporters, they're going to say, what do you need next season? We need pace in the wide areas. We haven't quite got that with Salah and Gakko. So he's going to play less. So he's like, no, I'm not having this. I need to play. So that's why they've come to keep him.

Liverpool have some huge games coming up. If Liverpool are off in the next few games and Salah's playing and he's maybe not running back and he's not taking chances or getting chances Liverpool fans are 100% they'll be saying get him off, he's crap, he's already left the building he's already got a club lined up, he's already left the building

They said the same with Trent I think they will, Rox, I think it feels to me like Liverpool fans have gone into almost like sort of like, almost like ceremonial mode on him. We'll see over the next few months. If Liverpool are off and they're not winning football matches and Salah's not getting chances or creating anything and he's having a tough season, a bit like Trent and it's the same principle.

Instead of him thinking, a player's left the building in his head. I think the bigger problem for Liverpool for me is that they've signed a player for two years who's been one of their best players of all time gone to them and said, look I think I need to leave and I think we need to break this contract. That's probably a bigger reflection of how this is going. I have no problem with that kind of business side of it, going to the club and going, listen we all share...

I think the deal itself from leaving this summer is not too bad. We share cans and move on, there's a bit of respect from both parties. But my issue is with the important games coming up, to be fair, the most robust, resilient, mentally strong player that we've seen. He literally plays every single week. He's decided to say, it's not for me anymore. What's got him to that point where he doesn't think he can turn it around?

Is it the fact that maybe Liverpool are not going to change slot at the end of the season? He doesn't get on with the manager? Is it the face he just feelsere, his own form is not great. Even the dynamics of the team with Trent behind, all them things have changed, it's not quite the Liverpool I was happy with a few years ago. And I'm still young enough to go and do something somewhere else, he's not like 38, going, I'll see you at my last year, I'll cash in.

It's not the Mo Salah team and the team's not built for him, they have to move in a different direction.

Why didn't they do that last year, Jamie?

If he'd only signed a one-year deal, right, if he'd signed a one-year deal we'd be sitting here, he's leaving the summer, he god is worthy. But also again from a business point of view, listen up, we part ways in check and of course, I think I'm okay with that side of it, but announcing it with such big games coming up for Liverpool, Liverpool are fighting for their lives. They're on the verge of having a really bad season. Don't get me down to that, it's down to Salah.

It's down to Salah.

But if I was a club, you've got Salah, how he plays and what he does. Because you mentioned Trent there. If he finishes on a high and he scores against City and he scores to win, he's got, do you know what, Sal? He's got that new... His decision-making has got a new bit of energy in his life and he is moving on to something new. But if Liverpool finish the season badly,

and I mean badly, just as City beat them...

I play them badly. Especially the way he's been playing. Will he pick him every game? What I think is interesting is, since he had that spot, and he wasn't playing them, and then he goes to the half and he comes back, he's played, literally, every game. And I've looked at that sometimes, because even Liverpool fans who love Salah,

I'm one of them, sometimes I've looked, thinking, I don't need that asshole. Now my worry for all that, Jamie, sorry,

maybe Slar's been under pressure from people above, you have to play as Salah. I think that's the issue. I'm not sure on that.

I don't know if it's come from above, but I think there's definitely...

What makes you say no, no, no? I have no knowledge of their backroom team. But do you not think it's possible that people upstairs could be saying to Slott, Salah needs to play? I honestly believe if Liverpool's hierarchy are telling their manager and their coach who to pick, that would be a cross line that I don't think they would cross. I don't think they'd cross that line.

Well, I'll go with Gary. I think it's a possibility. But what I'm saying is, I agree with you, but my point being is, Slott was almost strong enough not to pick the guy on, you know, the highest paid player, and since he's, and then all the stuff that come out, and then ever since, he's just been in the team every single game.

And most Liverpool supporters will look at that and think, his form doesn't warrant to be in every single game.

We've seen this a hundred times though, with England and with United, where a player is, it sounds crazy,

they are just too much hassle and too big a player to drop.

That's what I get, it feels like that to me.

So the hassle that comes from dropping a...

Name it, go on, name it.

David Beckham back in the day at United, or with England, Wayne Rooney, or with... And that's where the pressure comes from above. Leaving them out is too much hassle. I don't think the pressure's on the manager going, you have to... No, I don't think it's the pressure from above. I think it's from the external pressure and the actual fact that it becomes just such a sort of...

Big story.

Big story. It takes over and consumes everybody and overwhelms the whole club. And Mo Salah, to be fair, sitsiano on the bench, which Ralph Rangnick did. He'll just have himself on Cristiano. Do you remember when Cristiano was on the bench? All of a sudden, it just became the whole thing about Cristiano. It's easy to play him.

Why are you saying you're shocked they've ripped each other's contract? It's a great deal for everybody. It works for everyone.

I get that. I'm not that Mo Salah, I would have thought, with him wanting the two-year deal, I would have expected him to say, no, I'm going to hang in there probably, and he must think it's gone really badly, is what I'm saying. I'm not saying he shouldn't have done it,

I'm saying he must have got to get out of here? No, no, no, Kara. It's not the same for me, this team isn't my team.

No, Kara.

Stop talking about Liverpool's big problem. So is it wrong to have you pick up money?

No, no. It's a relationship problem.

I'm not saying that he's wrong, my point is, Liverpool wanted a two-year deal, loving the city and the club like he does and the fans, to get to a point whereby he thinks, I've got to get out of here and leave this club now.

That is a massive shift.

But was he getting on with the manager here?

He's playing now, he's playing every week. But is he the same player? Is the team built around him? Is he going to play less next season? Of course he is. It's obvious to see. It's not that difficult. I'm most silent. It's not just about the money for him. It's like, I want to play every single week, every single minute. You can see the way the team's shaping. Liverpool need different players

in the wide areas next season. That's what Liverpool need to buy.

Why did he sign? Why did he sign? Because it's not like he has to look way into the future to see what's happening.

So why did he happy then? Do you know what I mean? Is his relationship with the manager not well?

Obviously his relationship with the manager has obviously changed.

Six, seven months in football is a long time. Things can change quickly. The two year deal, Gill, I think for me was, to be fair, it was him, to be fair, I think, asking for the club to believe in him. I think it was more of a belief thing. Why are you only giving me one year want to see everybody believe in them and think they're the star, which obviously he was last season.

It's a big, big shift. It's demonstrative of what Liverpool have done in the last seven months. They've gone from champions with a world-class player very much at the heart of it, to seven months later looking really sort of at averaging games and that player's, be fair... But that's where things change quickly in football. Seven months later, he's... But what does it do for Slott? I mean, that's the question.

Does it do anything for Slott? I think it's good for Slott. It's good?

I think it's good for him.

Sal has been there and he's been a great player.

Oh my God, Salah's on, is he gonna come on? I think Slott will be happy.

Yeah.

Definitely be happy. Wants him out.

Jamie, who do you think comes in? I read an article last night that someone was saying about Jared Bourne.

Could you see him being a Liverpool player? No, he may be on Liverpool's radar under Jürgen Klopp early on. Obviously Mo Salah was already there but no, he'd be too old for Liverpool. I think the big thing for Liverpool in terms of saying we need to replace Mo Salah, when you actually look at the make-up of Liverpool's signings, and I think it was a mistake last season and I said on this show didn't I, it didn't feel like a Liverpool summer, it felt like a Real Madrid summer. Liverpool have been, and Mo Salah is the poster boy for this, being clever in the market, seeing some of the other people do it,

and Mo Salah is probably the biggest person in that. Just going and dropping £125 million on Isak or Wirtz didn't feel like Liverpool to me. But I always think, how can you get the players on the pitch? I'm not sure you can play with two out-and-out wingers like Salah and Mane if you've got two strikers like an Isak and Eker TK. So if Isak's going to come back next season, he's going to have a proper pre-season, he's got to show something. But Eker TK's being one of Liverpool's best I'm just asking whoever the manager is, because I don't think it's set in stone. Arnie Slott will be the manager.

What is Liverpool's set-up going to be next summer? Do they need to replace Salah as such? Are they going to play with two strikers and a really narrow midfielder? Which is what they've started to do.

But have teams changed that much at Liverpool? We're talking about Salah wanting to you know, kind of a centre of the club, they're back people. It doesn't sound right. I'd be amazed if he's not there. We're usually talking about just other clubs,

not with Liverpool.

Are the fans alright with him at the minute, Jay?

What's going on? No, not really. No. Why have they gone for him? but why is this different? You know what, I was... Exactly what you were saying. Early on the season, I always remember I was at a charity function, the one Roy come to, I invited you all.

Sorry, I didn't get to invite you.

No problem.

I think Liverpool lost that day to Nottingham Forest, a home 3-0. I think that might have been October, November, something like that. A lot of Liverpool fans in the room. And I was shocked at how many were talking about the manager. I was like, it took me aback. So, for the majority of this season, I've said what you've said. But I don't think there's any problem with not winning the league again,

so to the following season. I think there's understanding that, OK, the situation with Jota, sign of improvement. It's almost like, okay, we're not winning every week like that but the performance, it's not even like you play well. You look at performance and you think Jesus Christ that was awful. Tottenham, Nottingham, Forrester. I felt halfway through the season he needed, the manager needed a really good second half of the season.

Not necessarily on lots of wins, but you can feel his team moving forward. And it might be like, okay, maybe Salah's not playing. You see Eke Tike invading, and maybe a different something a little bit that you can hang your hat on for next season.

And we're at the stage now I had seven or eight games to go that you're like, oh, the Brighton game, it's like... There's nothing to keep you going. And that's my thing with the manager and also the supporters have, certainly online, but whatever, social media, the match-going fans in Anfield after the Tottenham game. Was it the Tottenham game? Yeah, the Tottenham game. And I was there at the end and I thought,

I think he might have lost quite a bit of the match. It just, it felt like, not just like a little bit when everyone goes, it was like people were angry. And it's the fact that he hasn't been able to alter these poor performances and results are a bit like... And it reminds me a little bit of Ten Hag I know Ten Hag didn't win the league but Ten Hag's first season was really good Remember, you sort of, do you win the cup final? And at one stage, it felt like it was going somewhere

Then the second season was really poor I know you win the FA Cup and Liverpool could win the FA Cup They could win a Champions League And if you win the Champions League, you're staying of course But you ended up keeping Tenerhag the next season. They won't win the Champions League though, will they?

Okay, well we'll see. Well I'll tell you what, this team's a lot better than the team that I played in that won the Champions League.

So you think they'll win the Champions League?

No, I don't think they'll win the Champions League. Gary's trying to get a headline. And I said this on commentary, is this the players or is this Slott? And what I mean by that is what we saw Slott do last season, the players that they've brought in, which he is part of, can they do what he wants or what Liverpool supporters want? It's like they all want to be technical on the ball. They don't want to defend.

No one wants to run or chase back or the makeover of the team. Now, is that on the manager or is that on the recruitment team? And I always think when there's such a feeling against a manager, it feels to me from supporters that you know when I always think the worst thing you can do is when you start the next season and that manager then bought more players and you're moving more to his style again Is that you get to the end of September, October and you think we're going to need to change the manager and that's just that is the worst thing. I think that's what's happened to you a few times with Amaran actually and

Ten Hag. You'd almost change it two months into a season you're like oh my god and I just think it's gonna be so difficult for the manager to get supporters back on side. So one defeat in August, you lose the first away game of the season everyone's's going to be like, what the hell?

The Liverpool hierarchy have always been very measured, haven't they, in terms of quite stable.

Do you think they're going to wobble because of that? I don't think they'll wobble just because of fan sentiment. I think they should be serious. You're looking at why is the manager not being able to change this, not necessarily winning every week. Xabi Alonso, it's too obvious that one, that he's there and... I think that heightens things a little bit.

Or, you know, he looks like, you know... When you think of boxes to be ticked... But then you can look at whether you agree with this or not. You know, he's a big manager, but Slott's played him twice for Liverpool and beaten him twice. You know, for Leverkusen and Real Madrid. Whether that's...

Javi's got a style of play that Liverpool fans can recognise.

It's not a style of play. I mean, look, to be fair...

You know, I just want to mention something.

His style of play was pretty good last season.

Yeah, but, like, Liverpool are more...

You can't talk about style of play from your club.

Don't... Guys, don't go there, guys. But what everybody wants, because the generation of Liverpool fans for 10 years saw Klopp, and for me it was the best football in the world. It wasn't the most successful, that was Pep, but it was definitely the best and most exciting. And every supporter just wants to go back to Klopp football. Now, what manager can play Klopp football? And you know what I don't want us to end up doing?

What yous have been doing for 20 years, oh Ferguson, Ferguson, Klopp was... You're not going to get that football again, you can still win a different way Liverpool won a different way last season This idea that you're going to get Jürgen Klopp, he's the original You're going to get an impersonator So don't have this thing constantly Like, oh Alex Ferguson, or Man United wingers, or we do this or we do that

Honestly, Klopp's done his thing and it's his thing. And the next manager who comes in does his thing. Slott's doing his thing. It was brilliant last season. It's not working this season. We'll see how it goes. But whoever manager comes in, it's not like, oh what would Jürgen Klopp do? No, do what you do. That's what he fucking brought you in for. Anyway, have a rest. Send us your whoop data. LAUGHTER Hey, we're the only people not fucking sponsoring this show.

LAUGHTER

What's this?

Just quickly, just quickly, Carrie, you've made a statement, I want to go around the table.

Oh, do you know what I've said now?

You've made a statement that Mo Salah is the second best foreign player ever to play in the Premier League behind Thierry Henry.

Is that something we agree with, yes or no?

You haven't given us much time to think about it.

So basically, is Mo Salah just behind Thierry Henry?

I think his numbers are incredible. His numbers are incredible. But the only thing is, when you look at kind of other wide players...

Canna, Bernardo. Bernardo.

So is it yes or no? I don't think so, I think Cristiano. So I'll start off first. I think Cristiano in my mind for four years.

Just the Premier League, not Israel Madrid stuff.

Yeah, your Premier League. No, you know what, I love Mo Salah.

I'm going to go yes. Mo Salah, yes. I think it's none present. of him? Manolo? Yeah. De Bruyne? Mo Salah? Yeah, what he's done in the Premier League. Kevin De Bruyne. You know what, some of the stuff Mo Salah did with the ball went out. I say yes or no, Gilles? I'm going yes, I'm going yes. Three yeses and two noes. Stick to Football is brought to you by Arn Clothing.

We're going to move on to Liam Rossini because look, it's an interesting one this. I'm going to go back to the first stick to football that we did. After, well first, I'm going to read out Enzo Fernandez's statement after the PSG loss. We lost a manager who gave us identity structure and direction,

a World Cup winner, and no one, not even the players, understands why. Mid-season everything changed, the system collapsed, the stability went with it, which is quite strong from your captain, or vice-captain, sorry. And then I think when Liam Messina was first appointed, we've got quotes here from all of us. Jill, you said, I think it was a bit of a joke, he'll last six months.

Did I?

Yeah.

I thought you paid him off that far. Jill, you said, I think it was a bit of a joke, he'll last six months. But it- Did I? Yeah.

I thought you paid him off that month.

No, I think because, can I just say, I was saying that they don't give managers time. So I was saying they'll probably give him six months.

Yeah. So Roy, you said they talk about criteria, but if there's a criteria, why do so many get it wrong? Which I think was probably saying it was a doubtful appointment. Caro, you said, I look, it might be a bit of a worry of where the game is going because sporting directors are becoming so powerful, the sporting directors actually feel like the manager doesn't need to be amazing,

we're amazing, and we just put it almost like as a head coach. They're not winning the league, Chelsea are not winning the league with Rossini as a manager a big part of football for me Is those big managers those giant figures? He's not a manager for that club quite strong at the time very strong I said I said wrong right yeah, I said they have relatively young they have a relatively young sporting department They've now got another young manager. They've got young players to me I just thought they would put someone with real experience in to give guidance to them

So I was doubting the fact that you've got a young sporting department, young players, young managers.

He'd be alright if he'd signed a six-year deal, wouldn't he?

He can't get rid of it.

Yeah.

Ian, you said, with everything going on with Chelsea over the last few years, I think you were the most supportive of the appointment at the time. I think it could work out a good opportunity. He knows the club. I love that one. He knows the players because they were at Strasbourg.

Look, to be fair, the huddle is something that I thought very strongly about.

The huddle.

The huddle.

What was it, a huddle round a ref?

Yeah.

That was amazing.

It first happened around a ball first, wasn't it?

Yeah, but I spoke very strongly against it. Not necessarily because of Liam Messina, because he said it was something that the players wanted to do. But my honest view of that is, if you've played football since you were five, you've trained every single day, you've had videos, you've slept well, you've eaten well, you've had that many conversations about the game, you know every single player that's on the opposition team

because you've basically been forced to watch them for the previous 24 hours. You've gone into the change room 10 minutes before, you've had your last little bits of words in the change room. If you need words five, 10 seconds before a match starts, you're fucked. You're well and truly done.

So I just, it's a nonsense, it's a gimmick, it's an absolute gimmick.

But then we'll praise Harland for doing his huddle.

No, no, honestly, all huddles. Yeah, no good. It comes round the referee. The referee, what happened? You've got to be respectable, haven't you?

You've got to respect.

A huddle's okay, it's just obviously where it is.

Where are we at with the whole thing?

You know, I'd say some of the...

But lots of teams do it now, don't they? Lots of teams do that. Again, I agree with you. It's just maybe for sure, maybe. But what do we think about the whole thing, just generally? Liam's obviously a good young coach. We've had Wayne Rooney on here who's worked with him. He's a fantastic coach. He's obviously someone who's desperately trying to,

and he's won quite a lot of matches at Chelsea, but it's just started to turn, hasn't it? It's not just turned in terms of results.

It's turned in terms of the personal stuff being aimed towards him. The memes and that's the thing and only results can change that for him. But like you can... The Chelsea fans that I speak to and that, they're already just, they're so negative.

They've lost the last four Ian.

Yeah, of course, yeah. They've lost the last four but at the same time we're talking about a young manager who's trying to get himself going. All they talk about...

But you're never going to get as soon as any young manager goes to Chelsea, as soon as they have any sort of... even experienced managers, they've done it with better managers than him, they're gonna get rid of you. That's the club.

This is why you try to support...

Why are we surprised? Yeah, of course.

You try to support because you think, can he win a few so he can get him onside? But then now, the way they're coming from his personality and stuff, it's just like now, it's like a pylon. It feels really bully-ish.

I think they've got United and City next, haven't they? I think they've got some difficult games.

It's a job you can't turn down, for obvious reasons, when would you get that chance again? But if you're a Chelsea fan or anybody, you look at it, he's just over Strasburg here to Chelsea, one of the biggest clubs in Europe And the Champions League twice in the last, whatever it is But why can't he turn it down Jamie? I know what you're saying

No, no, well If you speak to him, it's like we spoke to Ange and Deitchie

And these people going into Narnia Forest, you go, you know you'll only be there for a few months

It's hard to turn down one of the biggest clubs It can be, but I think some managers have to be brave enough to go... Should Frank Lampard have turned it down?

When he went back, he went back the second time. I don't think he should have gone back.

He's seen as a yes-man for the ownership, isn't he? So he's seen straight away. Supporters are going to have no respect for you at all. He's seen as a yes-man. They don't like the ownership. They chant about the ownership every single game.

And he's just seen as their yes-man, their guy. And from the supporters' point of view as well, I always think there's something about Chelsea that's a bit different to most clubs, that are really aggressive, and I mean that in the nicest possible sense.

It's ruthless, they expect to go and get a Champions League winning manager And even if he doesn't and Shalotti move on We're getting the next one We're getting the next one Are you talking about now or the historic Chelsea and the Ravnovich? Historic but what I'm saying is this generation of Chelsea supposers Are used to winning This idea that it's a five year plan

And we're building to something That's Tottenham That's maybe Arsenal under our tat It's not Chelsea Chelsea could go from finishing sixth and winning the league the next year. We used to criticise, not criticise, but we'd say, to be harsh what they're doing to a manager. But I used to look at him, I actually admired him.

It was so ruthless. Everybody knew, if you don't win the league or go close to winning the league, you're gone and they get the next fella in. And what Chelsea had an ability to do, even when they weren't winning leagues, they'd win a cup, an FA Cup, or they'd get a Carabao, or they'd win the UEFA Cup, or they'd just keep collecting trophies. Chelsea's record in the last sort of, like, a good few years, you know what, I can't remember what it is off the top of my head,

I think it's about 10 years since they won a domestic cup, you know, like an FA Cup or a Carabao Cup. in the final. And it's like this thing that they're always building. Building for what? This generation of Chelsea supporters expect to win something silver. They're not into this building for the future. They're buying our young players, then obviously that's what they're... Yeah, but it's like where does it eventually get to? And I can't believe the Enzo Fernandes stuff. I think Chelsea got five or six brilliant players Like really, really good

I think you've got Rhys James, Caicedo, Fernandes, Palmer I think the lad up front's going to be a good player Pedro, I think he looks like a really good player And maybe the clever Yeah but what I'm saying is my point being is Eventually they're going to go, what the fuck's this?

I should be playing a team that are going for the Champions League. Well he's almost said that, hasn't he? Well that's what I'm saying, you can't keep building for what?

He said that, Enzo Fernandes has said, we had a manager in Maresca, it feels like obviously they believed in, and he's now saying, sort of, we've now changed.

Like Jamie's saying though, and the guys know that he's not a yes-man. This is why they're obviously upset that he's gone. I think it's unfair to call Liam Rossini a yes-man. I didn't call him a yes-man, I said the supporters will support him as a yes-man.

I think because he's gone in there, he's got a level of intelligence that, to be fair, you don't ordinarily see from English coaches. And to be fair... That'll go down well. No, I mean in his interviews and the way he articulates things And it's obviously now, to be fair, he's being mocked Brutally being mocked

I must admit, I don't look at him at all I just think that you've got to look at the owners And think, they're a young group of players, an average age of 24 They're the youngest group of players in the league You've got young sporting directors relative to what would be their experience And should be at a top club in Europe. You've got to have some experience somewhere.

And it has to be the head coach, surely. Surely the head coach... Could he have brought somebody in with him? Who, Liam, you mean?

Yeah, Liam.

If you're saying there's question marks over him and he's perceived to be a yes man, at least bring in some staff around you, where you're going, well, he's inexperienced. who are like, praise Carrick for bringing Holland in with him. So could he bring someone in with him? I agree with that. Or was he allowed to do that? I think Steve Holland's got a massive amount of experience.

He's actually got a tough... I would have seen you bringing somebody like that in.

Yeah, I know, I'm saying, I think that was a big appointment by Michael to get Steve Holland. And we don't know how that happened got alongside him in terms of that experience on the training pitch. But we would have horrored it if he'd brought somebody in. You can't have a young manager, young players, young owners in terms of Premier League. They're young owners.

If they've got young players though, do they not need what you're saying, like what Arteta's

had at Arsenal, like a bit of a building? Is that what you're saying? Like, do you think they would... It's like, what I'm saying is, I think you need to... So, where did they finish last season? Chelsea fourth? So, where are they going to finish this year? Fourth or fifth? I don't see... With Arsenal, you could almost feel like, even though it started maybe lower, eighth a couple of times,

it's like, boom, boom.

And I remember my own club at Liverpool, You feel like every season you're just taking the next step. With Chelsea, it doesn't feel like it's exactly going.

He's only had 15 matches.

I'm talking about the project of Chelsea, this idea of buying younger players. I don't see where it's like... It feels like a lamb to the slaughter.

Yeah, but the perception of a manager, Gary... For Liam, it does. It feels like the owners have put a lamb to the slaughter It's brutal to be fair. Gary, the perception of the manager when he comes in, obviously just around the referee, that's from the player's point of view. Where were they getting well beaten against? In Europe last week. And he's giving lads a piece of paper as they're going on. There's like a minute to go on their...

Eight to down. So you've got to be careful.

That doesn't help.

Because that's what put out there to the media, sometimes through the club, the players aren't happy with the bits of paper and ex-players are slagging them off, going, why are you giving a piece of paper? And the game's over, there's like 60 seconds left.

Might have just said we're fucked.

Yeah, yeah, might be something like that, but you've got to be careful.

That's where that momentum of negativity comes towards. Who's the player we saw the video, the player who done the video on him? On Liam Racine. Kevin Kilbane. That was out of order, that wasn't it?

I didn't see that.

I didn't like that. Have you got it? Has anyone got the video?

It's so blatant.

And he said that he's completely different to what he was as a player.

Like he's swallowed a dick. It was, to be honest, I don't think we've ever talked about other people's opinions on this show, but obviously Kevin has played with him, Liam Resigno, and he said, look, I've played with him, he said, I just can't recognise this individual.

He almost in some way, it was a massive takedown of him.

Yeah.

Which, you know, ultimately, you know, he said he's changed, you know, he's swallowed a dictionary, he's Kevin who done Dance On Ice, wasn't it? I just want to make that clear.

The reality TV programme's a lot of fun.

Yeah, but Gary, I saw a reputable...

You're a fan of Kevin?

Journalist as well, Gary.

I thought he was really good in Dance On Ice.

He done a whole bit on him about it's an act and how the players don't... I don't think it's an act. I think he's a good guy. He's saying it's an act. He's clothes. He was talking about his clothes. We're talking about a young man. What is he supposed to... He said he wants to see him in a car coat. What are they talking about? Everything other than what he's doing.

He looks better than I do, Valencia.

If you want to criticise... Changing every week. If you want to criticise his methods, the notes and that, then do that. But, like, you know, to dig him out like that... He's got to be careful not to overwrite you. That's not helping. To be honest, that wasn't good.

That wasn't good, but, again, you look at, like I say, with the Kevin Kiel band, he might have changed. He might have changed going through because to find the place where he is to say, I'm going to speak like this and I'm going to do... What is wrong with that? Yeah, Ian, you're right.

Who in the changing room is exactly the same 10, 15 years later when they're a coach or a manager or a pundit?

Everyone's different.

Yeah, because they're not in charge of the players, other than obviously find out the philosophy.

It's horrible to see.

It is. How does this play out? But are we surprised, sorry to interrupt, are we surprised the way it's panning out of Chelsea? No, I don't think so. It's the same old stuff with Chelsea, isn't it?

Seen it before.

They're still on the edge, they've got a game against Port Vale coming up I think in the FA Cup, then they play City United, so they've got a chance to win the FA Cup. They obviously, to be fair, finished in terms of what's going to happen. I read a report this morning that, and it was obviously someone who had been briefed in the paper, that he's staying there, he'll be the manager next season, unless it falls off a cliff this season. I mean, like, horrendous, but even if he's not made the Champions League…

It will come down to how much…

He'll still be there next season. It always comes down to what the players, how the players feel about it. But if the vice-captain, I just want to read this statement again because I think it's quite brutal after the PSG game. Say it again now. We lost a manager who gave us identity structure and direction, a club world cup winner and no one, not even the players understands why mid-season everything changed. The system collapsed, the stability went with him. That is a brutal statement. For Menzo, who's to be fair, a fantastic player, he's a World Cup winner, he's the best player on the pitch type thing for Chelsea.

That is a brutal statement.

Was he asked a specific question though?

Or did he just come out? I listened to a football podcast and he was explaining it, so he was speaking to someone from his own country. Oh, that's the translation. No, I get that. That's what he's saying. That's when they go to the internationals and they think that no one over here is going to know what they're saying.

But that is a direct...

I just wonder what question he was asked.

Yeah, but what you said, Tim, he's a good player, but come to something like that, if you're not really all happy with that stuff, you can go, that's what you do with him. He's probably got an eight-year... He's fine. That's my connection. He never gets me head round. The manager's got six years. How can he ever get out? I'm not saying you want to get out.

Can you imagine if the Chelsea players now, you mentioned it, the young players all the way through... And then you're looking at, how do you get out? There's no way that you're not wanting to get out of Chelsea at the moment I wonder how Cole Palmer feels right now about what's going on in the future. But they signed the deals, though. Yeah, but he signed a nine-year deal.

They signed the deals. I have no sympathy for them. They've signed the deals.

They sold them the dream, and I don't know at the moment.

But what young player would sign a seven- or eight-year deal with Boston?

I wouldn't know.

I wouldn't know.

I wouldn't know.

I did. No, no you wouldn't. Yeah, I signed a seven year deal. Was that the longer? How old were you? If you gave me stability, I never once took for granted the idea that you couldn't get injured,

you couldn't get all of a sudden lose your form. You're a lork, you're playing for Man United. I played for United, if they offer me a seven year deal, I'm just really happy, I'm good. I'm good, I'm fine. Nice. 14. LAUGHTER MUSIC Stick to Football is brought to you by Arn Clothing. Thomas Tuchel is named his 35th man squad for the upcoming England games.

And I know we've talked about this guy a million times.

True.

Remember we said last season we were going to have a little stoddy?

LAUGHTER a million times. Trent. Remember we said last season we're going to have a little study. But Wayne Rooney, I mean look,

Ben White's coming also as well, hasn't he, for Kwanzaa.

Yeah.

Wayne Rooney said, how can Trent Alexander-Arnold, who's playing for Real Madrid, not be in a 35-man England squad?

I understand that. We're talking 35, if it was 20 on and you think okay well you know he's still getting himself going at Real Madrid, he's doing a lot better now but 35 is… It's incredible isn't it? It's not 35, it's 37. It's 37. It's two points dropped off. It's literally, it's probably harder to leave people out. Surely there's got to

be something else there because on ability… You know what the strange thing is, when people say Trent about his defensive stuff, but he must look at the other defenders ahead of him and go, they're not a great defensive leader. It's not as if his two girls are going, I'd like lads to be rock solid at the back, and some of the lads ahead of him,

they're not even good defenders.

I mean, you've got so right backs, you've got Jedzer, Livermento and Jed Spence that could play right back. And are they much better?

Conzer couldn't play right back, he's a centre-back.

Are they much better than Trent? I'm talking about Jed Spence, Livermento and Conzer. Conzer. Conzer. Conzer's centre-back.

Conzer could play right back.

He has played right back.

Conzer has and right back. Why do people talk about the English squad? They can play in different...

You want lads who are really good.

Don't be a jack of all trades. Rhys James, by the way, is not in the squad. Trippier is not in the squad.

James is injured.

My point is, if Rhys James and, they're not in there, Kyle Walker's not in there. He's retired.

I get that.

LAUGHTER

Kyle Walker, if you just said a few years ago, three years ago... Lee Dixon.

LAUGHTER

If you just said a few years ago, you've got four right backs that was incredible, Trent, Rhys James, Trippier and Kyle Walker. If you said Rhys James is injured, Kyle Walker and Trippier are pretty much retired, and Trent's still not in, you'd be going, what's going on?

There's something like that.

Especially on the back of his performances against City as well, I thought he played well.

He very well, yeah.

That's what I mean, he'd be in, it's gotta be something.

I saw him against Atletico. It's starting to do with like, is he not happy with him in the camp And it was talk about him being, belling him in, belling him a best mate and a bit He's not a bad lad, I didn't say he's a bad lad, I didn't say he's a bad lad But sometimes managers...

When he's on the 35 one, people were saying he should be in that I understood a little bit, because he hasn't played for Tukol He's not been in the other squ's all season, I think he's only played about 25 minutes for two colours, the England manager But when he brought... and the other ones have been in, so Jed Spence has been in the squad whether you think he's good enough or not, he's been picking them, so he's only picked what he's been picking But when he brought Ben White in, I was like, wow, that was the one that I thought... Ben White's only played seven league games for Arsenal That's what I'm saying, that does feel... Did he get interviewed on it? He must have got asked about it, what did he say?

He just said... I don't know.

What did he say, Gavin?

He said he hadn't spoken to him.

But what did he...

He hasn't spoken to him? No.

Rarted.

You look at that squad, if you analyse defensively, that English, it's not good, man. Defensively. Yeah, you're right. The only other one that I think was probably... Ollie Watkins obviously had been having a tough time while he scored at the weekend, was Danny Welbeck obviously wasn't. And to be fair, I think people have been saying, yeah, but he knows what Danny can do.

No, no, no, no. If you're picking a 35-man squad, two months out from a World Cup, you're picking all the players that you're thinking of taking. I still think that's on you. That's still on the player. You must go, how have I not done enough to persuade a manager to get me in a squad? He must have done something. It can't be just an injury.

It must be something when he's been in the squad. It's not necessarily about abilities, but in the group, two guys said from day one, I need lads who are good travellers and who are good to be left.

All this type of thing. There's something obviously about him he doesn't like. Clearly. It's personal. It can't be football. He just played well against Man City in games.

Yeah but if he doesn't like you personally, but you still have to promise him. Then you go, I can't leave him out. You don't have to like everybody but go on. There's something amiss of course. But even if it's you said. I don't think he's great around the players, but I know he'll come to Crunchy and do the business. But for him to be going, I'm not sure about him

from a football point of view and a personality point of view,

it's a sore one. I didn't mention Welbeck. I've seen him. For Danny to... He's gotbeck better than him, too. Yeah, but the thing is that if you're gonna bring... You could probably bring Danny Welbeck in, just to...

You know, let me see what this guy...

I thought Danny would be in.

I thought he would be in.

I thought he's had more than a good enough season.

He's good, lad. Around the place. Is Jordan Henderson in? I give an apology. Ahoy! Spantum and George. Last question, actually if I've just made it up. Will Ireland...

Sorry.

Will...

You know Ben.

Will Ireland get to the World Cup? First and foremost, they've got to win that. Focus on that game, the Czech Republic. They've got a chance, they've got momentum with them, a decent experience, squad, no one thought they'd get into this position. position, hopefully they'll grab it. You know, big game, that's tomorrow night, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah, and then if they win... Winner Wales win.

Tuesday.

We're talking about Ireland, fuck Wales.

Ireland, Wales, jumping in with Wales.

Yeah.

Because Ireland, huge one for Ireland.

Yeah.

Because, what's it, Harry Wilson's having the kind of season where he could go to the World Cup and go to another level as well. season so far. I love it. Jesus, where's that come from? No, I don't know. It's just come out of it.

It's just a...

It's just a full under drifting.

No, Wales. Wales, Craig Bellamy. You know what I mean? I think he's got something going with him. You know, we'll see how it goes.

We'll come back to Ireland, yeah.

Good luck with Ireland, anyway. Good luck with Ireland, anyway. And that's the end. I still love Helen, I'm just saying. I love what happened with her.