Así es la mente de este ASESINO en SERIE: Analizamos frente a frente al HOMBRE que MATÓ 10 ancianos

He is Juan Carlos Villa Cardona. Was it tough? In series. And well, we returned to the maximum security jail of La Dorada in the department of Caldas, in the Colombian coffee shop. And a lot of this by request of some of you who told us that it would be interesting

to do a psychological analysis of this character. And well, we did it with two great professionals, with Jessica Rianio, she is a neuropsychologist, a university professor, and also with Belisario Balbuena, a forensic psychologist, criminologist, one of the greatest experts in these topics in Latin America. And Dr. Balbuena, Juan Carlos' behavior was completely different with you and with her,

and later with me, whom I interviewed again. Yes, Rafa, it was even part of the scenario that we initially created in order to compare how he behaved with me knowing that I was going to evaluate him, that I was going to ask him questions for an evaluation of a psychological, mental type,

how with the neuropsychologist, but with her, well, what varied for being a woman, and again how she behaved with you. It was interesting to find those three scenarios.

And we are going to look at it, which caught my attention a lot. I decided I wanted to see this TV or this, what was it? I got to the room and the boy was like, let's see, let's see, I said, what do you want? Water. You give me water.

He wanted food. Or he wanted to bathe me.

He's crazy, Juan Carlos Villacarbona.

No, Rafa, and that was the vast majority of comments that people made, sometimes lightly, Juan Carlos Villacarbona. He's a good reader, he knows how to read it, how to take advantage of it. And I f*** him. I say, don't touch him, I f*** him in case he falls. You raise the kids, you are my nephew. I'm going to make 1,500,000 to this bastard dog. A guy with all the awareness of the crimes he committed, with a gut. You saw how he talked about each of the crimes. I know that here, you are, if you don't die, you are in a coma, but something happens. I can't let anyone live, because like me,

since I was a child, something happened to me, yes? So, I don't give a f*** about what people say, I say what it is. Even without regret. We are not facing a madman, we are facing a perverse subject, a very antisocial subject. I don't need remorse, I don't need remorse for being human. For me, the human is like a chicken.

With some very psychopathic elements, rather, in the sense of not having any empathy for others if using them is the typical utilitarian serial and let's move on now to the last thing we did that morning several hours with Juan Carlos Villacardo and it was another interview where I wanted to point out several things. This is what he told us and from here we are going to get other questions. Let's see. Don Rafa, nice to see you again.

I was with several concerns after our interview. Although he told me, I would like to go there. How many women have you, Juan Calvo, fucked in your life? Three. All of them older than me. All of them older than you. To the leather, why?

You didn't feel any remorse?

No, not at all. No remorse, not at all. Not at all. What did you feel, Juan Carlos, when you f***ed someone's life? I mean, I felt an energy from above. The one above influenced me in my mind,

see what he's doing. But the other part told me, destroy it. I did what I did. arriba el de arriba me influyó en la mente de lo que está haciendo pero la otra parte me decía destruya yo lo que fue fue si me entendió soy dos pedazo y

ya

si me entendiste es de un rabado pero es contradictorio con cal y que sentido porque el de arriba le decía usted que no no no no no entienda el día arriba la mentalidad me decía lo que está haciendo está mal hecho el día No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Está tiempo. La energía potente del mal, no una energía más diabólica. Destruye. No puede dar caos sueltos. Entonces yo me sentaba como si yo hubiera pagado cárcel. Toca. Toca. Y volví y le digo, estamos en cámaras y Fuck. Fuck. I'm like, what the f***? Bastards. So it was a fight between good and evil.

Exactly. A fight between good and evil. I'm still fighting with her, you know, Mr. Rafael. In the same cell, there's another one like that. But a little girl who started in life. And when I touch her, the moment I get up and go to sleep,

I sit there and think, where did I want to go? But since I'm mentally capable to dominate myself, I look at myself and I go, you see, I laugh, because I try to fight good and evil, but since I surround myself with the trinity of Christ,

that's why I don't speak like this, He stops me, and I adjust myself, I have a lot of prayers, people say, how are your lip? It hasn't hit me yet, because I told him, you need to hit me. So he tries, but he says, no, this guy is crazy.

Yes.

Suddenly, he says, why is there more jail? Suddenly, I look for the truth, but I myself am not capable of it. If you understand what I'm saying to end... with the agony inside of so much evil that I became a spy and that my mind

doesn't want to see my brothers dead because of betrayal. I'm understanding but I don't want to die I hope others kill me or there's a fight I need to fight and fight and help my son

and avenge my brothers, because I'm. I won't go up against the walls. But if it were up to me, I would kill myself every day until I was killed. But no, there is a child waiting for me. He's not waiting for me. There is a child who needs my support from here. Because he admires death. He admires death because it is the rest of man. The death is the rest of that which he has done on earth. I would like to experience

if on the other side there is life. Because here, here is hell, where we feel the betrayal, where we all look at each other crazy, with hatred. Yes, when I die, I would rest. Already very 100% human. Yes, rest. I would rest. I would rest. I would rest. I would rest. I would rest. I would rest. I would rest. I would rest. I would rest. I would rest. I would rest. I would rest. I would rest. I would rest. I would rest. I would rest. I would rest. I would rest. I would rest. I would rest. I would rest. I would rest. I would rest. I would rest. I would rest. I would rest. I would rest. I would rest. I would rest. I would rest But internally, you don't believe. It's time to do it. A leaf doesn't move if it's not for Jehovah. A leaf doesn't move if it's not for Jehovah, but for the Son. No one comes to the Father if it's not for me.

He is love, you hear? He is love, you hear? He is love. But understand, you have to die for them to be born. In what sense? In that this man or woman, this man, suddenly had evil in his youth, and came to an old age and repented, or wanted to shield his sins.

Justice came by the hand of others. Yes, an example there. I came, I justified. That was already a rotten rodent. What happened to the 15-year-old? He was going to be a person who didn't tie the world. I didn't tie it, because my God can have whatever He wants.

I didn't tie it. That's why I deserved to die. I had people in my hands who deserved to die. And you know what they told me? Believe in Christ. There is power in Christ. And I felt such energy.

I said, why am I not able to? And I was there with him and I said, why am I not able to do it? And I said, with him there, there is power in Christ, power in Christ. And I said, why don't I? And we went back.

And he left.

So the one who was 15 years old, he didn't deserve to die. He didn't deserve to die on the ground. He deserved to live. Until 90 or 100 years old. But he wouldn't do anything good in the world.

How do you know?

I don't know because I'm not a witch. It's illogical, I would know how. But think about it. If it's a person who supposedly had no sins, listen very well, had no relations with any woman, had no bloodshed,

listen very well, pure, before the word of Christ, that whoever has no bloodshed is still pure. Why did I have the mental capacity and the energy, having the powerful being, for the evil to triumph?

I leave this little piece to you, or a person who has a mind of the most advanced librettist, like Ipuanasa. In what sense? That if it had been pure, but it hadia cometido alguna anomalia, no sabemos que.

Si, o el padre cometio una anomalia donde los hijos lo estan pagando. Es como el hijo mio, el hijo mio yo puedo salir de aca, usted y a los ya llama y dice me han pago el niño. Pero como si era un niño puro. Oh dios, entienda muy bien. The child. But how? He was a pure child. Listen, understand very well. One sees enemies, but the enemies do not reach there, but from above. But since the child comes from sin, from a stained blood that is my rotten,

the stained generation, mine, the child was not supposed to be, as he was to grow, for the good, but to be bad. In what? In destroying that person. Do you understand me? That's what my theory says, how I see it. No human being deserves to live on earth because God is the owner of them.

Juan Carlos, are you justifying why life made you 15 years younger? I'm justifying or what is making me think, no. I'm giving, I'm giving suddenly a story, a syllable of what suddenly could be happening with his past moments. If you are understanding me, you can be a very noble person, but your father could have been the worst, humiliating, the worst in the world. And that's a death sentence? It's not a death sentence, but if it comes as a curse, as if it were a curse,

as if someone tells you, you're going to be cursed for life and everything you get will disappear. Do you understand me? The mere fact that you got married, not in Christ, but in sin, and from there you, your family, are not blessed, but you believe. Yes, you understand me? What did you feel when you gave life to someone? Oh no, no, no, no, no, no, nothing. I felt it growing, the feeling, yes, the feeling of wanting to calm my anxiety and wanting money. That's it, the rest, no. I ate normal, played with my son, hugged my wife, made her normal love.

Normal, for me, if you put a human being here and they don't charge me, I'll go out there and eat with you normally and play with you normally and laugh. Oh no, that for me, my mind was advanced. Not like my siblings, who supposedly had the dead and were handed over to me. No, I don't. No, no, no, I don't. I don't even see them with that. What did you think when you f***ed someone's life and you were on the floor? The job was done, it was time, the time had come. There are ways to die.

Do you understand me?

I went out with my people. I thought at the time it was my livelihood, for my son, yes, and for my wife. First me, second me, third me, fourth me, fifth me. And if they also came to take me, they came to third me, fourth me, fifth me. And they also came to pick me up and pick me up to f**k me, they were going to blow me up. I'm a dog, I'm going to burn clothes, to go there.

Yes, where I was taken care of by the victims, or somewhere I was put in, they were going to hand me over to the police or the neighbors. I was the same, the same. Did you do any rituals? No, I never did any rituals. I kneeled down to Jesus Christ and Jehovah,

that's the ritual I have. Never, you hear? Never. After I committed my sins, you kneeled down to me. And before that too. Before I committed my sins, I knelt down to Jehovah. And after I committed my sins, you did too.

I keep confessing my sins before him. And the rest? No. I have always had the habit of stealing. First I kneel down to go steal. And then I kneel down to thank God for what I did. That's who I am. That's why I'm not hurt.

And even if you don't believe me, I can of a bully than a person who has already challenged me. Because I've shown what I've become. My life is flowing. My brothers are paying. And I'm the one who's destroying them. And I'm here. Me. Me. And without fear. I fear that my God is on my knees.

Otherwise, he wouldn't let me go. But I... Did you do something with the blood? Why? No, we have to make rice fritters. So that... No, I have been thrown out. So that I can...

No, blood for what? That smells very bad. So that... No, I didn't need them, nothing. I needed the money.

What I got.

You said that... You liked the blood. lo que cogiera, no más. ¿Sabes? Es que usted hablaba que usted le gustaba la sangre.

O sea, me gusta la sangre, pero vela, mas no ve vela. ¿Sí me está entendiendo? Vela, mas no ve vela. No, pues eso hago, ve la sangre. Yo creo en un vampiro. No, no soy un vampiro. Sí, vela sí me encanta, capacitado.

Sí, soy capaz de nadar en ella. Pero vela, toma la no... trae un vampiro. ¿A cuantas personas en total le cago en la vida a usted, Juan Carlos? No más le cago en 11 personas en la vida. ¿Me entendiste?

¿No hubo más?

No más, no hubo más. Si quiere busqué por todo Colombia, si encuentra más patron. And if it's my hand, yes. If not, I'll take a fingerprint and send it to you for slander. Yes, I know a lot too.

What was that pattern?

Well, my pattern, you can see it on the right. I'll explain why, so you can see it. The body is made up of 650 muscles of pressure, human tissue. There are 209 bones. 238 in the face and 248 in the hand. It turns out that here, there is no oxygen.

I break this vein on the right, which lowers the femur here. You immediately f**k yourself. On the left, no. On the left, you can take left and squeeze it and save it. Not the right. You have to take the right from here to where you are.

Immediately. If you save yourself, you'll be in a coma. So you'll never live. That was my boss, because he studied the human body. First the right and then? The left.

That's it. There's no need for more. The wounds you see on the victims, Ya, no hay necesidad más. Las heridas que usted le dio a las víctimas, porque el peor, el traidor de mi hermano, como es bien flojo, se las pegó a lo mal hecho. El traidor. Sentía algo dentro de usted. Una paz, una paz. Cuando usted...

Cuando yo reventaba la vene, comenzaba a botar las... y yo a que la víctima forciaba en mí, the victim forced me and I felt their grip. Yes, I felt peace and I felt that at that moment, God forgive me, I was taking revenge on my parents. Do you understand what I'm saying? Yes. God forgive me, because as a therapist and humanly I didn't have the courage, I never had the courage to take my life away. I wasn't capable.

As much as I thought, I started to Even if I thought about it, I would start crying. I was miserable. My parents left me. How can this happen? Not even a brother. They didn't do anything to me.

They left me, but no, no. Sometimes I would wake up in the morning and my mom and dad were asleep. Those who gave me life, left me sleeping peacefully. My brothers were sleeping, sleeping peacefully.

My brothers were sleeping there, throwing up, I was looking at them, I was looking at them all.

But no, yes, I couldn't, I would start crying. And I would go out there to walk.

Yes. Did you feel that you were taking revenge on your parents?

Yes, I felt that. vengando de sus padres. Exacto. Una sentía.

Justo una mente. Y a la vez, pues, díganme el dinero pa' mi familia. Pa' mi niño. Pa' mi mujer. Y la gran mayoría fueron adultos o mayores? Adultos. Y hay menor. ¿Tenía algo que ver que eran adultos?

Muy sencillo. Muy sencillo. Oye, ¿cómo no? They were adults. Very simple, very simple. Of course, if everyone enjoyed their father and mother. Do you understand me? I could never enjoy my father and mother. I enjoyed my grandmother, she was about to die. I enjoyed one aunt and another,

one loved me, the other loved me. And I left with some cousins who are going to put me in a tank. Do you understand me?

I grew up with disgust and hatred

I hated them, I hated them If I'm going to 60, I'll make the decisions myself I'll pay the one who f***ed me

and kill me

So, being an adult was a revenge It was a revenge against them, no? I was black and at the same time I thought of my parents. If it was a revenge, I would have taken everything from them. I would have destroyed everything.

My moment was to destroy. My brothers would take me. I knew they were going to give me to the leather. I knew they were going to give me. That's why I love my kids. They threw them on the floor and put them in an acid cage.

Juan Carlos, your son has four eyes. Yes sir. But before, you were justifying him. The way you had to take care of him to about getting ahead and making money. But before that, he also died without me. Of course, without me. Why? Because I've been here since my parents left me.

Since the corruption started, they didn't visit me. And I've been here since then, hating humanity, dad. And I've been here, I've been here, to the skin, dad. And I've been here, resentful, and I don't regret it. I don't feel go, dad. And I come, I come to the leather, dad. And I come to the leather, I come to the leather, dad. And I come to the leather, dad. And I come to the leather, dad. And I come to the leather, dad. And I come to the leather, dad. And I come to the leather, dad. And I come to the leather, dad. And I come to the leather, dad. The only one I don't trade for money is my son. He's the only one I don't trade for money. Arrest him. Arrest him.

I sell everything. Everything. Let's start here with something very important, Dr. Valbuena.

The signature of each serial has a signature?

In general, yes, Rafa. In general, there is a very psychological, very behavioral component in crimes, yes, unlike the modus operandi, which is the way they use it, here, for example, in the modus operandi,

a very particular element was deception.

I would come in and touch his case, you would open the case and I would... I would make you pick up the paper. When you picked up your paper, you would read it and I would look at it, analyzing it, how was his muscle mass, how he breath it, and I'm going to be looking at it, analyzing it, how was your muscle mass, and how did you breathe, and how did you react to the paper.

How he approached those people, usually people of the third age, pretending to be mute, using a paper with a writing, so that they would read it and see a cognitive and emotional empathy with him, they gave him food, some money, they gave him some garment, but that allowed him to enter the house, know what goods the person had, if he suddenly had cash or already knew that he had some elements that he could steal. He was behind that and he killed them. That was a big part of his objective.

But the way he was stealing their lives was very particular. First, he built his own weapon. He said that he was a blacksmith, that's how he introduced himself to us. And that he knew about that profession and that he built his own knives. The ones he used to stab people in the neck were deadly. First the right side, then the left side.

Yes, that's how he told us. That was his signature. It caught my attention when I asked him why a third-year person was so forceful. It was like a revenge against his parents. How much did his childhood have to do with all this? Having been supposedly abandoned by his parents and his grandparents. Rafa, a lot.

However, it must be clarified that this is not the cause for which he ended up becoming a serial killer. But it is a present element that can be found in many serial killers. a very psychological abuse in early childhood, as in the case of Bibia Cardona, a negligence in his care, and family lies. Notice that there is an element that he later extrapolates in his modus operandi. So, he is abandoned by his biological parents,

he is raised by grandparents and an aunt, he even narrates who, an uncle, yes. Then when he commits his first crime, which was a lesbian that generated another minor, he goes to a detention center for teenagers and he wanted, through that situation, to draw attention and that his parents went for him. But his parents never went. That's when he felt more abandonment.

It happens at 10 years old, which is even a very interesting fact that he says in a part of the interview of his childhood, more or less 10 years ago, that after 10 years, someone is, word plus word more words less adult that he can be worth for himself notice that it has a correlation with that he narrates and with his conduct and that is that abandonment that lie that

they form him that his parents are going to leave, that his biological parents are going to take care of him and they don't take care of him, which begins to generate anger towards older people. That's why his victimization is so particular. And you told me when we were preparing the podcast that it was a similar behavior to the famous Ted Bundy, who has probably been one of the most famous actors in the history of television. Tell us about that. Yes, Rafa, I'll bring it to you in detail. In that aspect in particular, because evidently Ted Bundy had or had, he was, he was app with capital punishment in 1989. He had a very different victimization, a very different signature,

but in the modus operandi and in his relationship with his childhood

was very similar to Vidya Cardona.

I explain.

Ed Bundy and you can review it through this interesting book that your publishing house, Testigo Directo, has, which is Assassinos en Serie by Miguel Mendoza Luna, in a chapter that Miguel called Mascaras del Encanto. He also used deception, a trick to pretend to be a smartass, to catch college students in parking lots of big universities, in Florida for example, to help them carry books or a box, and when they, out of empathy, wanted to help him, he attacked them, took them and take them away and attack them. And then he would take their lives. Notice that Vidacardón used impugnment in a very similar way.

If he wanted to pass by mute, he had a written paper, he had to be close to those elderly people, so that when they entered his house, they would give them a glass of water, a pot, and he would observe what they had. And if there was any economic or utilitarian benefit for him, he would attack them mercilessly.

But why do I compare them? Because both have elements of their childhood that facilitated hatred, anger, and the use of deception. Ted Bondi, Rafa, was raised by his grandparents saying that they were his parents. His mother was pregnant at a very young age, and at that time, being a single mother was almost a crime and a very strong stigma. That's why she gives him to the grandparents. They raise him

telling him that they were his parents and he at a more or less adult age young, finds out that his grandparents were not his parents and that his mother had made him pass for his sister and this also generates a great anger that then begins, look at the victimology, to go against women. That he then rationalizes, saying that it was a deception, that he made a girlfriend that he had, but that is not true. If someone becomes a serial killer for a love affair, then kill the amount of serial killers there would be.

Of his brothers, of his three brothers, the ones he has mentioned Yes. Ovidia Cardona. Who was the one who betrayed you the most? You tell me. The one who betrayed me the most, the truth, the truth, was José Mauricio Ovidia Cardona, giving the number

so that they would scan the calls I made to the one who gave me life. Being the right hand, the godfather of my son, of her.

He's an older brother, younger than you.

Younger than me, two years younger. That trash, me. It was him who gave the number for 15 million pesos. Knowing that we had the same last name, they were never going to give it to us. Ha! Sabiendo que daban el mismo apellido, nunca los iban a dar. Y él, sumistró el número.

Cuando usted dice, Juan Carlos,

los 15 millones, ¿qué era, una recompensa? Sí, era una recompensa. Usted sabe que por la plata baila el perro. Hay perros que bailan, no pillan hasta requetón. Sí, sí, por la plata. Entonces, como ese per who carries the blood,

immediately gave the number. And while he gave the number, he called me frequently. He frequented my brother, who come to the picaleña and say, Mother, I can't take this anymore. I want to go back there. I'm going to be old. But the mother was talking to a lady from Tebalda, Quindío.

She had a lot of relatives. And she said she was going to ask for a sentence for me, but not for the other child. At that moment, the CTI, who wanted to hear everything, took a drag. What happened there? I had already been coordinated.

They took out the traitor who surrendered so that he could fly, so that the troops would come to me. I fell, I fell, the truck, the fleet. José Mauricio Villa Cardona is the intellectual and material of my capture because he gave the number and he took another shot in my brother and he surrendered. Do you think you deserve some of that reward that he earned? No, I don't deserve anything. I don't deserve anything.

I deserve what I'm doing here because it's my story. I don't deserve anything. I don't deserve anything. I deserve what I'm doing here because in my history, I don't deserve anything. What do I deserve? What do I deserve? That they take the Transmilenio and trample it, and it disappears, or leave it like a snake,

without moving. That's what I ask for the most from him, because I'm making money. I'll get my money, but I don't want to see my brothers. They can insult me like that, and they can say, we'll pay you the bail so you don't have to go to jail.

Never. I die poor. I live in a cellar, locked up for days, without going out, like a beast. The mere fact that I see the destroyed, or the buried, or agonizing.

I'm happy. Do you think there are happen to those three brothers, Juan Carlos? God damn it, all three. Will they be able to take your life?

I don't know.

No, no, no, I'm the one who worries the least. I would love it. But do you think they are capable of that? Well, as I was saying, suddenly a fool takes care of his mother. And suddenly a man who has killed his mother, and suddenly a wise man becomes evil. I would love to, and if fate is like that, and if the judge wants it, I would love to see a show, at least one of him fighting.

I'm fighting. But then it's like, I fear God and I ask on my knees that he doesn't do it, because I know myself, I can with just one look, I'm going to move at five thirty in the morning, when they separated me from the child, and that's when my lethal revenge will begin. Because when I remember that, I have my son's photo in the photo. I, and I only give him a kiss, a sad photo.

I see them. More than the victims, I see them in a herd of sheep and they say, Brother, brother, I don't know. They would have said that when they took the hand of the law. Thank you for giving me your brother. The only thing that saves them is that they take away the hand of Jesus Christ or my Jehovah. But as long as I am alive, wherever I am.

Juan Carlos, how did your relationship with God start? No, no, no, I've been carrying that with me since I got my first hands at 11 years old. I said, blessed be the Lord. I told him, you know what, partner? I told him, you know what, partner? I know he's a God, but I don't understand the other way around. I don't have a dad and mom, and I'm in correctional, and I had to spend a year. Papa y Mama y estoy en la correccional y toque pasar un año. Hábleme claro. Soy bueno o malo? Que yo sin papa la chimba.

De ahí donde yo empecé a traer creencia. Pero entonces señora se decía, si no se refiere a ese antedio, él se llama Jesucristo y yo voy a ser clave del mundo. Ahí donde yo dije, si usted existe, ayúdame a confrontar este mundo, I'm going to avenge those who have hurt me and those who are going to hurt me. The prize that I have until now, I live for it.

That's how I've been locked up. I started, I started, I started. I'm not a fool, I'm not crazy, I have a very developed mind. And I'm the one who's crazy, I'm the one who makes me crazy. I've done it. I've come to the point is that I come from a very young age planning my own life, where I don't have love from my parents.

Because of that, I have a very severe trauma. Do you think that your biological parents, those you knew until you were 13 years old... They are no longer there, they burned my life. Exactly, your mother is no longer there. No, my mother is there, my mom is already here. Your mom is gone. But do they have any responsibility in what you have become?

Of course, of course. I'm going to tell you something. Sometimes we, our parents, take us to this... I say, what do you mean? I gave you food, you slept and everything. No, no, wait a minute, let's get down to business. I'm going to go to the movie. I'm going to go to the movie. I'm going to go to the movie.

I'm going to go to the movie. I'm going to go to the movie. I'm going to be a monster. I'm going to be a monster. I'm going to be a monster. I'm going to be a monster. I'm going to be a monster. I'm going to be a monster. I'm going to be a monster. I'm going to be a monster.

I'm going to go back and tell them, if they had had me with them, I wouldn't have raised them. Tell me, dad and mom, kicking, holding on to hunger, hitting me, dad and mom, dad and mom, I grew up in a very different world, where I had a good breakfast, a good meal, a good lunch, the best. I loved my aunt, my grandfather, my uncle, but where was my dad and my mom? They bought me what I wanted, but where was my dad and my mom? I bought what I wanted, but where were my dad and my mom? I didn't understand, I didn't fill that void, I started playing, I fell to the

correctional and here it was, they were going to see me. Can you imagine a 10-year-old boy and half stained by his skin, that almost killed another child, a 10-year-old boy is a child, they say, a child, a child, a child. Waiting for their father and mother, when they came to see me. And the answer they gave me, my grandmother and my aunt, Mrs. Suani, whom I admire, are working in the fields, in the cagüero. When I left, they didn't give me to those who were there, but to them,

because they were my parents. My world changed. My mother said, yes, I am your father. And who because they were my parents. My world changed. My mom is my daughter, I'm your dad. And they are my siblings. I'm not talking about them. They didn't explain to me what to do when I'm up there. I'm telling you what my dad did to me.

That's when the war started. I was going to blow them up. I don't love them. I despise them. But I'm your dad and I have to do what I say. Juan Carlos, do you think that because your biological parents or your family deceived you, that could make it easier for you to use deception and lies in your life? For example, to pretend to be a jerk.

I'm going to tell you something. Lies come from the and from the house. I mean, the offspring. I'm going to explain. If your mother and father are liars, you are going to be a liar, right? When I was instilled values where they left me and I stained my hands of that family, I didn't see the same anymore.

Oh, what a... Well, I change another world where they took me where my dad and my mom. I'm a good friend. I'm a good friend. I'm a good friend. I'm a good friend. I'm a good friend. I'm a good friend. I'm a good friend. I'm a good friend. etc. without feeling anything. Why? Because when I arrived, they told me that I was their father and their mother and period.

My mouth closed, they were not going to express me. The only thing was the lie and the violence. That's where I'm giving the point, but never. I've hurt a brother, I've never tried with my mother or my father in life, never. That's what offends me. I never tried against them. And I'll tell you something, they haven't seen hell. They know hell, the fire.

Hell is coming to me. I told them not to give me up. I'll tell you what I'll tell them. Hell is big. And whoever wants to kill me, I'll show them that they'll see me alive.

I'll tell them that because of that, my world started to lie. Very simple. I said, if we're going to get money, we have to have a very important thing. So they put me in a boarding school where there were professionals, deaf, mute, to do a mute interview. So I said, and what is that? They taught me, and I said, what is that for? interview When I called him, he said he didn't have a wife. And that he had a baby. So I thought, with this we can get to the president.

Well, I started talking and he couldn't do it. He laughed at me. I don't know this thing.

Does anyone visit you here? No one.

My beautiful daughter visited me, the one I fell in love with. But six months ago she took a flight, like a dove, and left. ¿Alguien lo visita acá? Nadie, me visitaba mi niña hermosa, mi mujer, de la que me enamore, pero hace seis meses cogió vuelo, como una palomita y se fue. Eso no me provoca a mí. Yo aquí he estado seis años solo. Yo con la soledad aprendí a amar. Amo la soledad. La soledad es más sincera que los que están con uno, señorita Jenny, ¿sí me entiende? I'm not afraid of loneliness. I'm afraid of being without a penny for my son. That's what scares me, without money.

What do you know how to do for money?

I remember bad things.

Tell me about them.

I remember bad things for money. Hmm, what have I done? Yes, I work at the farm for money. Yes. But... I got bored. Because they don't do anything for honor.

They don't humiliate him, they didn't steal him. They paid him to work, because it was very hard.

When you say bad things, what are they?

Besides having raped several people. Like stealing. Like... Like... Yes, very young. That was like...

With trauma. They killed an uncle and I got raped. Yes, I had the mistake of raping some people. But from then on...

Did you kill them?

No, no. Rape or kidnap, no, no. But from then on, yes, I would steal them. I would keep quiet. I would take their wallets and I would to steal from them, I used to steal from them, I used to steal from them, I used to steal from them, I used to steal from them, I used to steal from them, I used to steal from them, I used to steal from them, I used to steal from them, I used to steal from them, I used to steal from them, I used to steal from them, I used to steal from them, I used to steal from them, I used to steal from them, I used to steal from them, I used to steal a tank. Because I was very rebellious, you know? I was very rude, I was very impulsive. So, to vent that out...

And that's the big mistake. Because nowadays I carry that grudge. But I let it go because her mom was there and... She treated me like a mother. You know?

Because of the evil they did to me, I too. I like to be a torture. I love torture. I love being tortured. I love being tortured. That's why I'm the one who gets tortured. You have to try to get me out of there.

What does it mean to be tortured?

For example, when I'm being tortured, I get my nails pulled.

Did you do it with any of the victims?

No, not with any of the victims. But if there are problems that I have to deal with, I have left them alive., but there are times when I have been forced to do so.

Why do you stop?

I have the capacity to stop. I have the capacity to start with you and let you begin.

What do you tell yourself?

I stop and I like to feel the pain, to feel that I don't have the dominion in the moment, that I'm truly a sinner, and that I deserve to be departed. Forgive me God. For me, a woman or a man is the same as a chicken. It's the same thing for me.

You are a person who does not leave evidence.

I don't leave evidence. Why did you leave a victim alive? Very simple, because at the moment there is a greater power that is the one above, our Jehovah. At the moment, not all the evil has gone to the devil, but there is a power that is helping him. In what? A relative praying for him. You are understanding me. The mere fact that you say the blood of Christ protects you and I am praying for a person, and the person is praying, yes, I am doing it, but there's a barrier that you don't see. You don't see that they're invoking the one who died on the cross. You understand?

But the rest, no.

Because he had a predilection for protecting the victims and not fixing life in another way.

Very simple, the turn is full. If I know the person and the... It's true, well, well. But I love the... I mean, Garrotes, I mean,

I'm going to fuck your right and left ear right now. You're not going to... you're going to lose your oxygen. Yes, you're going to have a deep sleep. I've asked people who have paid you five or six hundred dollars to stay alive. And they've spoken. I don't pay for luxury.

I've been paying for jail time since I was 11 and I've been out for 6 years. Is there a chance that one of the victims you attacked would be saved or would be in a high coma?

No.

And if she's in a very good coma, it's because my God wants you to come back. Did you expect to see the vital signs that I was waiting for. Before I was a mother, I always consented to the above. And my goal is to see that you are dead. And it is still recent that your mother visits her brothers in prison, in other prisons, but not him. Of course, Rafa, he continues to feed his anger

because he continues to interpret that as an abandonment. First, that his mother does not visit him and his brothers do. Second, something that he interprets as a betrayal by his brothers. He unleashes his anger on three brothers, which becomes an event or a very repetitive situation

that mentions them with a name and last name to each one, and what he would like to do even with each one through that anger. But it is first because he feels betrayed, but also because the brothers took advantage of that alleged betrayal, of having collaborated with the authorities, of having claimed an alleged reward, and supposedly he is enjoying that reward.

Because there is a purpose and utility that he did not enjoy. That generates anger, a deadly anger against them. We were also, the two of us, with alias La Soga in Valle del Mar and we talked about the rope that killed more than 36 motor taxi drivers in what he was doing there was no serial element

here either there is a element. Yes, Rafa, how interesting that you mention. Yes, notice that coincidentally these two serial killers do not have openly, because maybe if you analyze it from deep psychology, psychoanalysis, you will find it, but it is not in place, it is not objective. There are no openly sexual elements. Notice that, for example, in the case of Vidya Cardona, he does not take souvenirs of the victims, he does not collect

souvenirs of the victims, nothing, he was not interested in taking a garment from the victim, he only went for money, for jewels, for valuables that he later sold or distributed with his brothers. That is why he was also angry with the alleged betrayal. But he did not take anything to remember his victims. Nothing. Which in the case compared, if the comparison is true, with the monster of the rope, he did take things from his victims to remember them.

And with many other serial killers. Ted Bundy did it, for example. But Villacardona didn't. That's a differentiating element.

And Villacardona confessed his taste for the movie. How do you interpret that? Rafa, more than a taste, it was something that did not frighten him. And yes, we would say that he did like it in the sense that precisely because of his method of death, he was terribly tempted to propose several murders with a weapon that he had built himself. But he had no ritual in relation to the one that one can find in other serials. And finally, he ends up explaining it to us in this

evaluation process that we did. Tell us about what You had some questions, an interview, Jessica had other questions, there were also some questions from Jessica's side, with a word that she wanted to be a very simple but immediate answer. What do you remember, or what has happened to you? You have a lot of memories of children. In a few words, what I want to know is, what did this lead me to do? ¿Qué ha pasado con usted? ¿Usted tiene recuerdos de niño? En pocas palabras, lo que quiero saber es

¿A qué me llevó a hacer esto? ¿A convertirme así? No. No. Bueno, lo que quiero saber es ¿Cómo recuerdo mi infancia? Muy sencillo.

Yo me recuerdo que fui dejado en un pueblo llamado Marsella. Sí, donde unos abuelos. Tenía como unos siete años más o menos. Yes, I had some grandparents. I was about 7 years old, and they left me there. I don't know why my parents didn't. My aunt, Mrs. Suani, and Mrs. Rosalba, they took me to the center of the house. They started to raise me, and I learned a lot from the teachings. I learned how to read, as a child, the other kids had their parents and their mom,

and it generated a lot of inconvenience, where they would tell me, your dad doesn't come to visit, you don't have a dad, and I would say, yes, but I have my grandpa. Well, it generated a lot of things where I would ask myself, why doesn't my dad come? Why doesn't my mom come? I would ask my grandparents those questions and they answered me, they're working.

After 10 years, there were two little brothers that one of them would attack me, the other would take things away from me. Since I was in a decent world where there was no evil, no love, affection, no violence, I would consult with an uncle, hey, the boys are hitting me, they're taking everything from me.

I started to hit them, and after 10 and a half years, they hit me, and I started crying. Then a guy told me, no, you have this nail clipper. I said, what for? It's going to make my last name worth it. So I said, I'm going to get it.

I went and found it and took him. Fortunately, I didn't kill him, but I did hit him like 35 times, but I didn't kill him. He stayed so... From there to there, I no longer became the same. From there to there, I no longer felt like the child I was, but as a person, as a rebel against the person, the human being, and I was like... I convinced myself and they took me to the court and I was offered to pay a year. When I was 11 years old, I started to talk about things in the world. Because of that I went to the correctional, because I would be another person. But then the point here, as I say, I have several resentments with my parents and I still keep them with the whom I have lived my life. Suddenly, the ignorance of having left someone in the home,

because they shouldn't leave you like that, right? Juan Carlos, you met your biological parents at what age? At 13 years old. I came to separate them, who were my dad and my mom. I couldn't stand it because they already had another little sister. But before, I got used to, it was already hatred, resentment,

I was going to that, to get over it.

How old are you now?

At this moment I am 44 years old. I want you to answer me, because I'm going to ask you with what's in your head, what goes through your mind, I want you to tell me. What has been the best thing that has happened to you in those 44 years? Having that beautiful girl, her name is Ian. Nothing else.

Because in the end, she is in love, but a woman who really values a man and has his children. She doesn't abandon them, she fights against the power of... But she is more beautiful, I think she forgave her everything. And what has been the worst thing that has happened to you in those 44 years? pesos ya le perdonó todo a ella y que ha sido lo peor que le ocurrió sus 44 años al confiar mis hermanos en ellos es lo peor que me ha pasado al confiar mis hermanos y juro que los destruyo o yo eso lo peor los maldigo que ha sido lo más indebido que usted hecho solo con alguien en sus 44 años lo más inhumano What is the most inhuman thing you have done with someone in your 44 years? The most inhuman?

What can I do? No, for me nothing inhuman, I don't kill a human being, because I don't want to kill a child. I don't kill a child, I hope it grows up to kill it later, but after it reproduces. I don't kill a 14 year old up, but no, not a child. I don't kill a woman or anything, I'm not a child. But I am a woman, as you can see in the history. And the most inhuman thing I've done?

No, no, what? I'm not inhuman. Inhuman for me to choose a child, 2, 3, 5 years old, to fuck him and take away his purity and leave that trauma for the rest of their lives. That's it. How many of those three brothers you mentioned are now free?

There are two traitors, two roosters from the bakery. Because if they are a rooster, they are a reptile insect, those that go out at night and cannot sunbathe. Because they are cowards. There is one called José Alfredo Villacardona, who is in Picaleña. And the other one in Calarcao is David Villacardona. If you were to bring him to one of those jails or certain penitentiaries, what do you think would happen?

I say it here and I ask the judges. To the judges who are watching this program when they see it.

If he sends me a brother here,

because he wants to, or because the city of Bogotá, I tell you, that he is not from Bogotá, that he is not going to be sent there, and I bring him to the same camp, if I don't have the opportunity, I will fight for him he loses his life.

Either he loses it, or I lose it. Because I ask God on my knees to give me or them life. I don't think the state is so ignorant to send me to the same prison where my brother is. Because I'm going to live in peace. If they find me, I'm'm going to come in peace. If you find me, it's better if you come back and leave, because I can't stand the pressure.

I can't stand being separated from you at five thirty in the morning. I'm going to be a little bit more quiet.

I'm going to be a little bit more quiet.

I'm going to be a little bit more quiet.

I'm going to be you something. I'm going to tell you something. I'm going to tell you something.

I'm going to tell you something. I'm going to tell you something. I'm going to tell you something. I'm going to will save them. May my God take my life. But I will destroy them.

And those who have been in my captivity, whether they be men or women, I will have mercy on them. I will take their peace. Just as they took me from my son. I'm going to have no mercy.

I swear I'm going to destroy my brothers. I swear. And whoever says I've had to see my cat too. I'm full of hate. I wish they had separated that child. And whoever touches that child, I'll give him an eye or I'll send him a person and I'll turn off all the legacies of your video tengo ntc in Coimbra you'll be sick goes back with me to me me and gansa is your look at your kid look at you

Christopher Carlos gracias a parque permit a canoe hair for women

to be see for a new way is in second place in a more home in a different tone be a hit or not a hit them because to la forma de celeste a different or not because you are young and you have a different transformation, like many.

I see that you came not taking yourself as a woman, that I am beautiful and that I am going to square this, no. I am a woman who can use money, a woman who is entertained. If not, that there was someone with whom you said, and he spoke clearly, I want money, I know. Speak. That's why I'm accepting you. What do you want to know? I want you to say, I know, speak up.

That's why I'm accepting you. What do you want to know? What do you want me to tell you?

I'm going to show you an exercise. For this exercise, since you think fast, I need you to think even faster. I'm going to tell you some words. These words have nothing to do with each other.

I don't need you to describe them to me, or tell me something similar, or something that doesn't sound like it. Ni que me diga algo parecido ni algo que no se parezca. Lo primero que se le venga a la cabeza. ¿Listo?

Bueno, hágale.

Hágale. Cámara.

Acción.

Respóndame.

Listo.

Dios.

Te amo.

Casa.

Lugar.

Camisa.

Buso.

Familia.

Solo. Al cuero. Donde quiera sol luna hermano falsidad Jose Mauricio nada mesa tabla nunca kim baya si pantalon bermuda, hombre, mujer, gallina, pollo, cordón, lazo, cortaúñas, tijeras, cuchara, lápiz, cuchillo, machete, no necesito que me lo diga pare Okay, let's go again. Ready? Okay. I'm getting it in my head.

Home.

Destination. Shirt. Bus.

Shoes.

Tennis.

Dad.

No. Victim. Innocent.

Blood.

No.

Okay.

Painting.

Okay. Football. Sport. Betrayal. Okay. Painting. Okay. Football.

Sport.

Betrayal.

Gas.

Yes.

Do you have any questions?

Well...

Why did you say older people and not other types of victims?

It's not like they say that only old people. other type of victim. trauma I don't love her either. Let's do what we say. Let's see. I started to rebel. I went back to my grandparents. They didn't accept me. So what are we going to do? No, his parents are the ones who rule. If we don't listen to them, their father is a merchant. What did I take?

It turns out that when I was in the apartment whoever goes, whoever gives. I was very attached to a guy who raised me, and he was a bad man. Suddenly, I had a blow, but not at the same time. I started hating my grandfather, my grandmother, my father, my brother.

I started hating them, and I prayed every day. A whole family, from the 3rd and 4th grade. And more, the youth. Because I grew up. At 11 years old I lost my youth. I went to the high school.

From there to there I was in Cali, I was in Bogota, and on the other side I was very closed. So my mind still doesn't get it. How often do you call Juan Carlos? Every month, 10 hours.

Why does that depend?

I miss my dad because he died here. I used to call him from here, they would tell me that my brother Jose David Villa Cardona used to take him to the traffic light to use him as a shovel for pyrimus and he didn't give him anything and he had an oxygen pipe where it was worth 250,000 and yes, then because of that I was increasing hate, hate, hate, hate, hate and he was f***ed at the time. I remembered him. He was very good.

When I see a victim, I stay in a state where I breathe again and rest. I don't need to take psychiatric drugs.

What did a victim have to do for you to respect life?

Something very beautiful. A victim who saved me when she told me, respetar a la vida. Algo muy hermoso, que me dijera, una víctima que se salvó cuando me dijo, yo creo en Jesucristo, y de qué palabra tan hermosa, no te voy a... No, usted no me lo ha dicho, esa palabra. Las otras víctimas nunca invocaron el nombre de Jesucristo, uno invocaron los familiares. Yo soy mamá Juliana de Talleyll, a legend, ma'am.

I will take care of them later.

A second victim that you would have saved?

There were other victims that were saved. I arrived and the person told me, I found her in a wheelchair. I said, what are you doing here? She said, my daughter and son are going to work and they come in the afternoon. And you, why are you leaving them alone? I said, no, because they don't have anyone to take care of me.

But I do the chores. He said, do you believe in God? I said, of course. And he said, give me water.

I said, of course.

Food, of course. I ate. I left. I mean, it seemed to me, suddenly, very sentimental when I said that, because I'm sentimental too. I mean, I'm a man, but there are things that make me tender. Like what things? Like, suddenly, I don't see the arrogance in a woman, I don't see the arrogance in a man,

nor do I see him challenging me, like, I am more than you because I have this or I am more than you because I have this piece of corn or I am more than you because I am younger there are people that I arrived in arrogance if you don't get out of here I'll take you out to send you to hit you with a planazo my people are already fucked up, I'm fucked up many things that if they are understanding me because I am not humiliating anyone because of that I arrived and acted as fast as I could to not show evidence. The one who talks is dead, yes.

You said in an interview with Rafael Poveda that you would take big men, police officers, what kind of victim would you choose?

Honestly, I would choose Jessica. A boy or a girl. What are we talking about? A boy is from 2 years to 9 years old, to 10 years old, let's say. From there to below, from 11 to below, I don't. A person is born... No.

Why? I'm going to explain be separated from my children. I don't like to be separated from my children. Why? I'm going to explain it to you very well. A two-year-old boy, nine years old, is experiencing that I love him, that he is my friend, and that I am his enemy. He sees you as if we were friends. He can't scold you, and he comes back later to offer something, and he's going to look in the eyes, he's not going to choose to look at someone's ass.

At 13 years old, a woman or a man already sees evil. Women at 13 years old have already had their relationship, they already know a lot. Men, yes, from then on they still have their purity. That's why, not even a child, but an old man or a woman, have already lived. un niño pero un viejo a una vieja ya han vivido.

Bueno, le voy a hacer unas últimas preguntas y usted me va a contestar sí o no. Listo. Yo le voy a hacer unas afirmaciones. Esas afirmaciones son unas frases y usted me dice si está de acuerdo o en desacuerdo. ¿Listo? ¿Lo que usted hizo no fue tan grave como lo hacen ver?

Sí.

OK. ¿Muchas personas han hecho cosas peores que usted? Was it as serious as it seems? Yes.

Have many people done worse things than you?

Obviously. Did the victims suffer as much as they say?

Did the victims also make decisions that led them to that? To want to live? Obviously. moment. Okay. They didn't give you another way out? They didn't give me another way out. Did you see them as normal people or were their victims different? In the sense that I saw them as normal people, but in my mind I saw them with hatred.

Did you think about their families and their pain?

Of course, I thought about their pain, but then I would say, why don't they have it somewhere? You understand me? And that's it.

Did you feel anything when you acted, or was it part of a routine?

No, I did feel, I did feel nostalgia, but for fear of God. But internally, humanly, no.

Tell us about your exercises. Rafa, I noticed that there were some very important elements of childhood that marked later the criminal behavior of Vida Cardona. Not to say that it is the cause, I clarify that, criminal de vida cartona sin decir que sea la causa ojo aclaro eso sí pero sí unos elementos presentes que él no dejaba de lado y era precisamente el engaño

si

la ira hacia personas mayores por el abandono que sufrió todo yo quería indagar un poco más sobre su infancia y es de hecho lo que yo comienzo a preguntarle So I wanted to investigate a little more about his childhood and it is in fact what I begin to ask him. And he very cleverly tells me something like, I know what you want to ask me, and I say, you don't know, you don't have it in your mind, I don't even do it with the experience, with the experience I have.

But it was a way that he wanted to take control of the interview. However, I change the question, I start to sift it in another way, we start to find some elements different from those that he had mentioned before in relation to his modus operandi, with his signature and with something very ambivalent and it was that he initially said that he did not have any intention of attacking his brothers in order to regain freedom, even if they were brought to prison.

Remember that at one point we said, well, what would happen if some of his brothers were transferred here? What the neuropsychologist does is to analyze how her mind worked, something that we use to make decisions, to function in our day-to-day life, which is called executive functions, speed, processing, impulsivity, impulse control, how she handled herself, and for that she does that exercise with the words. At one point he also tries to make fun of her, but she regulates him a little more

and ends up answering some very interesting things in relation to what he was interested in. And you have to find those executive functions. What is that? The way we function, the way we regulate, was to know if he had the ability to plan,

or if everything was clearly impulsive and disorganized. No, we found that he was a subject who did plan, who was quite organized, who read the environment very well, and who took advantage of it a lot in his favor, quite utilitarian. And even so utilitarian, Rafa, that what he mentions about his son, notice that he leans a lot on his son as an argument of power, he is not empathetic at all,

that is, his son really does not care. He uses his son to generate some empathy in others, to generate some commiseration and say, look, this guy, despite his incursion into criminal conduct, at least he loves his son and his son's mother.

Nothing. They are truly utilitarian elements.

And the tears there, are truly utilitarian elements.

And the tears there, in the first interview, when I asked him about his son, he started crying. What is that, a play? Look, Rafa, there were moments where he breaks or breaks down, and it's a real breakdown, we analyzed that with the neuropsychologist. But it's a breakdown that is in correlation

with the pain of his childhood. When you ask him, for example, about his son, in the first interview, and he breaks down in tears, it's because he's remembering the child that was him at that age, I'm not going to say that. I'm not going to say that. I'm not going to say that. I'm not going to say that. I'm not going to say that.

I'm not going to say that.

I'm not going to say that.

I'm not going to say that. I'm not going to say that. He also blocks himself and has a kind of sincere tears. I don't see it simulated there. But it's because there's the pain, not made up from his childhood. The same thing the neuropsychologist manages to do at some point where she's making the friendship with him.

How do you analyze, and you said it several times, that practically God was the one who said, you can do it, or else something had to happen so that he wouldn't do it?

Why is God there? Because it is a cognitive distortion of him. Cognitive distortion is a way in which he, or many criminals, there are also victims, but especially criminals, think in relation to what they do and the victims. It's a way to justify it.

He said, for example, that if someone said, God bless you, that wasn't so attractive to him to involve victimologically a prey of his aggression. But they are cognitive distortions, they are ways of justifying. He basically said, for example, that thanks to this work that he did, he was giving his brothers food, but that is distorted. He could help his brothers in a healthy, functional, morally correct way,

not resorting to violence, not in this brutal way. And how to interpret that he could not leave anyone alive? How, at one time, there was someone who also worked on that farm and convinced him to go to the people, otherwise he would have had to take his own life. Of course, Rafael. He left no witnesses.

Unfortunately, a collateral consequence, a collateral effect, was a young man, a minor, who had left his victimhood. collateral, un efecto collateral, fue un joven, un menor de edad que se salía de su victimología, una adolescente de apenas 15 años que hacía parte de la familia, que en algún momento tornó para que le dijera dónde se encontraba una cantidad de dinero y posteriormente le quitó la vida para no dejar testigos. to not leave any witnesses. Look, it's curious because I was talking to someone before the second meeting we had with Villacardona

and because of that boy, he is going to remain in prison for a long time. If he didn't have that boy's life, he could have regained his freedom much earlier, but that's why he couldn't do it.

That's true, Rafa.

Why?

Because he constituted, within the crime, an aggravating factor for being a minor. Notice that Villacardona didn't leave prison before he was 60 years old. He has very different calculations than those used by Soga. Soga says,ga dice más o menos en ocho años estoy recuperando la libertad. Y de Cardona tiene en este momento 44 años y dice yo recuperaré la libertad después de los 61 años. Por eso él abiertamente

dice yo sé que me muero acá. Porque también sabe que puede estar teniendo problemas con otros internos. Fíjate cómo se quejaba que su compañero de Zelda, un joven con el que because he also knows that he may be having problems with other inmates. Look at how he complained that his cellmate, a young man with whom he is sharing a cell, is annoying him.

But so far he has not dared to attack him because he is very heteroaggressive.

You have to be very careful with who you put in misma celda a Villacardona? Porque si no, ahí puede suceder un atraje. ¿Qué persona no podría compartir la celda con Villacardona?

Rafa, alguien mayor que él, algún adulto mayor, alguien de 50, 60, 70 años, sería muy susceptible a que Villacardona would attack him. It's not for free that in the first meeting you had with Villacardona, and in which we were later in the assessment, most of the time he was with his wives.

Although one thinks about in terms of security, in a controlled environment, precisely within that controlled environment, unlike SOGA, with him it was necessary that he had his wives. They only withdrew them when he explains

the injuries to the knuckles. He had some knuckles with some calluses. And we asked him, and it's because he, and he showed us, he started doing the chest push-ups.

Tell us a little bit about that. Yes, Rafael, he, he, he. Does he vent his anxiety there, or what does he do?

Anger, he's venting anger. Not only in the exercise he does with the knuckles, but to be able to have those falls on his knees, he must have hit at least a wall, a sandbag, something that he did not want to admit there, but I'm sure that's the way he was deflating and going to prison. He did not want to make it look a little more show, more media, saying that he could do more than 20 push-ups on his knees.

But that's an element of venting, something that he has contained.

Anger, anger, anger.

How does he interpret his revenge for humiliation? He told us, and he told me in the first interview, how an older adult once supposedly humiliated him by throwing a piece of bread at him, the book, sentenced to death. And then with another, and the issue of a banana. This person would take revenge on anyone if something had happened.

Tell us a little about that. Look how interesting what you ask, Rafa. First, Sudira did not vent her anger on anyone. It was generally against older people than him, to remind him of the humiliations he experienced as a child, to remind him of the neglect and neglect of care they had with him, the abandonment, possible psychological abuse he may have had,

emotional abuse in particular, that marks a lot our brain because a large part of our brain is emotional limbic and that is recorded in the memory that is the structure that is precisely in that limbic system of our brain then he remembers that it is like a detonator, it's like the spark that makes that pressure cooker, which is life, explode and sentence death as he openly says. particular. It is that anger contained that unleashes towards what he feels or believes that caused him harm in his early childhood. Does he come out and kill again?

Possibly yes, Rafa, although in the perspective that he gives, I agree that surely he will not come out alive from the alive. At some point, he will provoke or participate in a rhyme where he will either kill someone and complicate his legal situation and have more years or he loses his life. And almost to finish, Dr. Belisario, tell us about the geographic map. The Chedico is only in one area and surely he was never going to leave there. Rafa, cereals tend to be very typical of having a geographical profile. What does that mean? That just as our brain moves spatially and in a daily way, you go from

home to work, yes, from work to some places that are pleasant for you, or areas that are common or trustworthy to you. Something similar to the cereal industry. It has an influence zone where they capture the victims. Here is the sector or the surrounding sectors, to Risaralda, to the coffee plant, where he went, traveled and catch potential victims.

He would study them, deceive them through this methodology, and then he would finish them off. So, obviously, he does see importance. That is, Pide Cardona would hardly come to Cundinamarca

to do something similar to what he did in that area of influence for him. Do you have a myth that you would like to dismantle from your interview and meeting with Villacardona?

Yes, Rafa, several of what the common people believe that is always present in a serial. First, that they are mentally ill lunatics. We know that they are not. Second, that they always carry souvenirs or memories of the victims. We know that in this case, he was not interested in that. He did not care about taking things from the victims. That they only do do for personal satisfaction.

If not, the case of Bida Cardón is telling us, yes, because of the amount of expressive violence that he had against the victims, against the evictions, if we want to use a different term, but no, because it ended up taking away elements of value and money from the victims.

And I know that this is going to be a case of study for you because you are going to be working on a book with several serial killers. When they talk to you about Villa Cardona, what is going to come to his mind and what is he going to tell people in general?

I would define him as a perfect deceiver, a subject... There is a technical term that I want to explain, the lexithymic, that is, he does not understand the emotions of others, nor the feelings of the other, not even those of himself. That is why he does not care. Not even about his own son, for whom he says to fight and supposedly do ... not even that. He is an individual who, as he himself did not say, does not care about humanity. He ends up being another monster, an infra-human subject.

Doctor, thank you. It was very interesting to have shared this morning with you and the questions, and well, little by little I am learning much more.

I know you are, Rafa.

Greetings to Dr. Jessica. Greetings to Dr. Jessica.

With pleasure. Of course.