Attention turns to The Ashes after India epic and The Hundred DEBATE | Sky Sports Cricket Podcast

Welcome to this week's Sky Cricket podcast. I'm in Hertfordshire, having come back late last night from the first 100 game that I covered, which was the edge bastion between the Birmingham Phoenix and the Oval Invincibles. Nash, you're in Chelmsford,

but not sitting in your usual bookcase position. You've got Wi-Fi issues in Chelmsford. Has Wi-Fi reached Chelmsford? Yeah. Wi-Fi issues in Chelmsford. Has Wi-Fi reached Chelmsford? I have got. The heat has done damage to my Wi-Fi, I think, so I've moved away from the bookcase and I'm in the kitchen, which is a little bit echoey, so I do apologise. I'm bad when it's just me, but when it's me echoing around the kitchen, it's even worse, so I do apologise. One good thing is that you're all pixelated and I can't see you very well, so that's perfect.

How have you been? I haven't seen you since the Oval. I went to Scotland for a few days and you've done what, 300 games have you? Yeah, but basically that translates to I've been working and you've been fishing. So I've been all around the country, M6, M1, M25, A1, every ground there is in the country and you've been fishing in Scotland. How did the fishing go before we get onto the important stuff?

Well, the fishing as usual was a blank. I mean, I think there's just no salmon in our waters or I'm a terrible fisherman or both. The latter. I was up in Mull actually, I don't know whether you've ever been up there, west kind of coast of Scotland, Isle of Mull, absolutely beautiful, dolphins and white-tailed eagles.

I did a geology field trip around there somewhere, is it the Isle of Arran or somewhere,

I don't think that's Mull, so I'll tell you all about the rock structures.

Absolutely lovely.

Excellent.

So I was there for four days, straight after the Oval. We should just reflect actually, because we haven't spoken about it since DK was lording it in that miniature pod that we did right at the end of that game. He demanded that we did a pod immediately afterwards,

because of course he predicted a two all series result and he was bang on, but it was an epic end to that series, wasn't it?

It was.

And the next day, I mean, it just like, you woke up thinking, oh, I can't believe it's ended, to be honest. That's how good it was. I mean, the drama of Chris Wokes walking down the stairs on that final day, we had Chris Wokes with us.

He's been working with us.

I was gonna say that, because Ali Martin did an excellent interview with Chris Wokes, didn't he? Just after that day. And there was some graphic detail about how they were trying to put his shoulder back

into place on the physios table, which I think took us all back to, you know, our playing days when an injury or whatever had occurred. And cricket doesn't have this injury substitute, which became a bit of a topic in the series because of obviously Wokes and Pant. But I'm with Stokes, I think. I'm not one for subs and I think it will be a rule that would be easily abused if it came in.

Do you have a view?

No, I said that view after the Rishabh Pant injury. I know Michael Vaughan sees it differently and he's been talking about having a substitute in the second innings of a game. I see that open for people. The moment you bring up any change in playing conditions or laws, it just brings up, people will use it and manipulate it to their benefit really. So I quite like the drama of it all, of Rishabh Pant hobbling down the stairs at Old Trafford and Chris Wokes doing the same and I would not change it. I think it's unfortunate obviously but I think it can be manipulated. What about the series in general?

People saying it's been, it was the best series since 2005. Do you agree with that? You wouldn't have it. I know you worked on 2005, you and Richie, as you keep telling us in the comm box, but you wouldn't have it as better than 2005, would you? Well, you were working on 05 as well, if I remember.

Yeah, but I just, I play down my role. You just, it's all about you and Richie. Every time I read you in the paper, it's Richie said this and Richie did that. So where would you have it in conjunction with 2005? Well, it was nice to work with a good broadcaster in 2005, unlike you, Nass, sitting beside me. No, I think,

I don't think the quality was as good as 05. I thought, I mean, I don't think I'll see a better series than the 05 Ashes. I just think, you know, one team on the rise, one team, great team on the right, on the decline,

an emerging team, absolutely great players at the top of their game. But I think probably the best series since 05. I mean, the 2023 Ashes was a fantastic Ashes, wasn't it? But I probably put this one as the best series since 05 because of those dramatic kind of moments like Wokes

and, you know, Richab Pant and the way the series twisted and turned. So I reckon probably the most, the best series that I've covered since since 05. Are you more or less optimistic about the Ashes after that series? I don't think I've changed my opinion really. I still see the strengths and the weaknesses of this England side. I don't think anything that happened in that Test series changes that. I think

probably one good thing out of it, the top seven is almost written in stone now. What you didn't want was the wheels to completely fall off Crawley. Now he had what he normally does in domestic cricket and in test cricket. He averaged around about 31 in the series. That's what he does. He'll have some brilliant innings as he did, and he'll have some absolute waffs outside the off stump as he absolutely did. So, but I think now what you didn't want was a sudden change. So your top seven, the injury to

Wokes, obviously now whether that makes it slightly easier for him to make that decision. Now, Chris Wokes said to us that he wasn't going to have the operation in the hope that he could try and get fit for that Ashes, but you just know how long it takes someone like Chris Wokes to get back to full bowling rhythm. And then you've got, you know, maybe the bowlers, Archer was a real positive, a little bit more positive, having seen Archer bowl in those two test matches. And if you

can get Wood fit again, and Sonny Baker, actually, I've been impressed with him. I know we're going to come on to the hundred, but I think he could be a real good backup, fast out and out fast bowler for the Ashes. So a little bit more positive. And also I'm still focusing in on Australia and their top three. We did that piece on the balcony at the Oval

where we spoke to Ricky and the problems with Australia's top three. If they can solve those problems, then England will have to play seriously well. So I think Marnus Labershain is a big, big issue for Australia. I think if they can get Marnus somewhere back to his best and in the side,

then that sort of top three becomes a little bit more dependable. What do you think? I saw he was in the paper the other day saying, I'm up for it, I'm up for opening. But I mean, I guess if you're in his position, you're going to stick your hand up for batting

in any position, aren't you? Because you're desperate to play in the ashes at his stage of his career. Yeah, I find following this England team, it kind of plays with your head a little bit because, you know, they can be so brilliant one day and not so good the next. And it's quite hard to keep some kind of equilibrium. But I've always been quite optimistic about England's chances in Australia this winter, in the sense that I feel a bit like you, that Australia's batting is very vulnerable. And if you go there thinking you can get 20 wickets, you have a chance. Whereas there have been some tours in the past where you think,

Kukubura ball, hot days in Australia, looking at that lineup. How are we going to get 20 wickets consistently? Whereas this time I feel that if they get them there all fit, then there's a chance of 20 wickets, in which case you're in the game. So I feel more optimistic than I have done for quite some time. But there's a lot. It was interesting, wasn't it?

Ricky said he would definitely play a spinner in most of the five test matches and he would definitely play Shoaib Bashir. Do you agree with that? Well, I saw some reaction on social media saying, are England going to fall for that? You know, there's a kind of, there's a spy in the camp telling us to play Bashir.

Is he being genuine or is he not?

He also said, having watched the Sky Cricket Twitter feed yesterday, he'd also play Michael Atherton as the second spinner.

I mean, that was absolute filth what I saw yesterday with your leg spin. What about the ball before I got Wazim out though? I mean, have you seen turn and bounce like that?

It bounced over your head and split.

Even Jack couldn't take it.

Anyway, let's move on from your filthy leg stretch. Edge faster than last night. So I got back late last night and that was the game between the Phoenix and the Invincibles, which was a good afternoon for a number of reasons.

One, pitch was good. You know, we give groundsfolk a bit of stick, don't we, when they produce pitches that are hard for the players to play entertaining cricket on. And it's tricky because you feel it's coming towards the latter third of what has been a long and hot season, hot dry season. So the squares have been, you know been hit hard and quite difficult for the groundsman to get pace and bounce into the pitch. But it was a hybrid pitch last night and it really flew through. And it made for, you know, the scores were high.

I think that was the third highest run chase ever in the men's game and the scores were high in the women's game, first of all. So just a little well done to the grounds people there. You produced an excellent surface. And I just, it's a hybrid pitch which made, which is interesting because, you know, a lot of the criticism of the championship pitches

around the country, that they're very slow. You can obviously get pace into those hybrid pitches, but they don't deteriorate. So I just wonder whether there's a way of, I mean, I don't know anything about pitches or how to produce them, whether you could have a hybrid, you know, for most of the surface.

And then at the ends where the spinners would pitch the ball, whether you can just keep that normal so you'd get a sense of deterioration. But it was a good pitch, first of all, which helps. I don't know what the pitches have been like in the games you've done. They've been a bit tired and they are absolutely vital in this tournament because you do want to see all-action cricket and that's what you got yesterday in both those games because of the

hybrid pitch because it had pace and bounce. I mean the first day started off the women's game was excellent at Lords and it was fairly high scoring. Grace Harris smacked it. But the men's game, it was so slow and so low. It didn't make for great viewing either in ground or on television. I guess they had to start there because the London spirit women had won the tournament and you always want to start with whoever's won it.

And the Oval Invincibles men and you couldn't start the Oval because we just finished the test match. Just finished the test. So, and it's Lords, but it's so slow and low. And then Trent Bridge, there was a game where I think Andy Flower, because of his spinners that he has, wants a slightly tired pitch.

So I think pitches have been absolutely vital. I mean, last year it was the ball, wasn't it? They've changed the ball this year. It's make sure you get the pitches right. And I agree, if you can get some more hybrids, maybe for the tournament. I don't know how easy it is just to have hybrids here and there and when you can use them.

But that hybrid pitch, it can't be...

I think the one at Old Trafford was a hybrid, wasn't it? The night before, when we saw Sonny Baker hurry up David Warner, I think that was a hybrid pitch as well. Yeah. So, and the other thing, there have not been many close games. It was nice to see in the men's, nice to see a close game yesterday. And the trend has also been eight chasing in the men's. It looks like sides, bowl first, because batting lineups, and I see it on social media. Could you please put up on the screen what you keep going on about par score? What is par score? Because no one seems to know what a good score is. And I

think sides are working on that this year. You have a bat. We'll see what the pitch is like. We'll see what you stumble to, and then we'll chase it down. An 8 out of 10. It's always easier chasing, isn't it? Because you've got the target there in front of you and you don't have to worry about the pitch. You know what it's played like and you can just get across the line. So I do think chasing has been a trend so far this year in the men's. You know, you mentioned about the lack of close finishes, which has been a topic of conversation

in the last few years of the 100. Do you think there's something about 20 balls fewer per innings that kind of mitigates against close finishes there? Is it less likely a shorter game should produce a closer finish?

Because I mean, logically you'd think the shorter the game, the less difference there must be between the teams, and therefore it actually ought to produce closer finishes. But that's not what we see in the 100 generally set against what you might see in T20. Or is that just a fluke? It's just kind of an anomaly.

I thought the other way around, I thought, like you say, the shorter the game, if you have a, if every game is a super over generally again to the last couple of balls with the result. And if every game's a test match, you know, generally apart from this summer, the discrepancy and the difference in ability between the sides over five days will show. So I thought before a ball was bowled in the 100, the shorter the game, 20 balls left, we'd have a load of close. But actually, it's the other way. Maybe it's

the format, five balls and then suddenly 10 balls and you threw it very quickly. Then you start to panic. Then you lose a few wickets. Maybe the quality of bowlers. You look at the overseas bowlers coming and the quality of bowlers. Last year was the ball. The ball definitely did a lot more. So, in the women's game, I would say it's not as much. I saw Jovo Invincibles yesterday changed their plan and batted first on that belter of a pitch and Lanning in particular played beautifully. The Aussies are going well, you know,

Grace Harris playing well for the London Spirit. They've started well. They've won all their games, although heavily reliant with the bat on Grace Harris. I think the Invincibles will now go on a run. If you see Lanning, Winfield Hill,

Capsy, Marazzo, Cap.

They look a good team on paper. Obviously they hadn't won the first two games, but I looked at the team. I always quite like doing the Oval Invincibles because they don't seem to change very much year on year. You have a connection with them. You know pretty much what they're going to produce, but you look at that team and think,

well, that's a strong-looking team and they played pretty good cricket last night. I wanted to talk about a couple of individuals, actually. Alice Capsy, first of all, in the first game last night, who got runs because young cricketers go on journeys, don't they, which is not always straightforward. You know, she burst onto the scene very early on, at the start of the hundred, and then, you know,

it's not been a completely straightforward journey, and she played really well yesterday afternoon afternoon and looks like she's kind of coming through and back on the rise again. Yeah, I think that immediate sort of stardom that you get, I mean, she was what, 16 years of age and she got a 50 at Lord's in one of the early 100 games. And then everyone is talking about her.

Then she gets picked in England, that immediate success. Then to a degree, people find you out and it's that second season slump that you get. And then you have to react and you have to sort of fight back. And the media attention and media scrutiny as well in the women's game, as we saw in the winter, the sort of Alex Hartley, Sophie Eccleston, Spat and everything that went on from that, there was obviously, rightly,

so much more attention. And if you're not fielding well or you're not playing well, you will get called out for it. So and then you have to cope with that, especially being a young woman, a young girl, social media, everyone will pick up on every dismissal and everything you do,

and you have to learn to cope with that. And I think she is now learning to cope with that. I think also she's playing more domestic cricket and getting runs and going into these tournaments, having played more domestic cricket. I know Charlotte Edwards is very keen on that. So she looks like she's coming through the other, I don't know who the other coming through the other side. I don't know who the other cricketer you're talking about. Is it Jacob Bethel? I don't know. I was just thinking, you know, you know, in the men's game, Jacob Bethel, I think he got

eight or something yesterday, but he came in with 46 balls to go. And it just struck me that, looking at his year, how difficult, it's not always a straightforward journey as a young batter these days. You know, when we played, it's obviously very different and the expectations are different, but we'd have a rhythm to the season where you just play a lot of first-class cricket and your chances of, you know, spending a lot of time at the crease were obviously high. And I feel that even though it is a different generation and clearly players are looking at different formats and all that kind of

thing, I still think at that age, if you're between 19 and 23, you still need to bat. And looking at his season since January, precious little chance to actually bat and play cricket. I think he's played one championship game. So it's a question really about the management of a player. You know, England allowed him to stay in the IPL, or he chose to stay in the IPL, whether he should have come back and played some championship cricket before a potential game against Zimbabwe, but no. And then staying with the England team through that India series

and only playing one championship game, could he have played more? And, you know, for somebody like Ben Stokes, who clearly he doesn't play really any cricket apart from Tess and seems to, if you ask him about that, he says, no, I don't need to do that. But he's, you know, 34 and he's very experienced cricket. I still feel for young cricketers, young batters, you need to have a chance to play. And I felt for Jacob Bethel in that Tess match because, you know, to come in,

in that pressure situation with a game on the line, high, high pressure, high tension. And just on the back of so little cricket and just watching him last night, again, you know, you come in with 46 balls to go. And what, you know, I just wonder about that and whether, you know, the management can be better to allow him to get more cricket. And then if you look forward, you know, if he's going to be the spare batter in the ashes, what do England do now?

I mean, you could make an argument that perhaps playing some 50 over cricket in this period might be better, but obviously you'd want to play the 100 because you're getting paid and there's big crowds and that's where it is. But then after that, should he play championship or should he play white ball cricket? Because we've got some white ball internationals at the end of the season.

So if you're thinking about him as the spare batter for the Ashes, what should he play? Should he play championship or white ball? If you said to him, he'd probably say, well, I want to play for England. I want to play the internationals, understandably.

And you know, what will the pitches will be like in the championship in September? So it's not, it's not straightforward at all, but he definitely needs to bat. Yeah, it's not, it's not straightforward, but you have to take some individual responsibility as well. You know, you, you got to know your own game. You got to make that decision.

The IPL decision wouldn't have been an easy one, but you've got to maybe look and learn from this summer and say, right, I didn't play enough cricket. You know, last night night Sam Billings was there and Sam Billings, I know you raved about Sam Billings when he was burst on the scene. And Sam Billings went through a very similar thing

where every time I put my TV on, Sam Billings was in a bib carrying drinks and he ended up not playing red ball cricket and he's now, you know, white ball specialist or whatever. I think you do have to learn from your own summer that you've had and say, right, in future, I am going to play more cricket. And then management, I think the

old Trafford test was the one that surprised me, was that he was left out and England obviously need a spare batter there just in case someone gets injured on the morning of the game. But others left to go and play for their counties, maybe a day after the county games had started, whether he could have gone then, whether England wanted him part of the setup because they like people to be involved in and around the team. I thought that could have been an occasion before the Oval Test to go off and play one round of county championship games. If I was him, I would probably be looking to play county

championship cricket for Warwickshire at the end of the season just to get in the rhythm. And I know there's a T20 World Cup coming up and the white ball stuff is hugely important, but he seems to have lost the rhythm of batting and the best way to get the rhythm of batting, even for the modern cricketer, is to go and get, you know, he hasn't got a professional hundred yet. Go and get a professional hundred.

I think Warwickshire play Surrey as well. That will be a real good opportunity against a good bowling attack. So that's my personal thing. Rob Key, selectors, they often get criticized for not focusing in on white ball stuff. You know, they may say, right, we've got a World Cup. You need to play more white ball stuff. So, you know, they may say, right, we've got a World Cup, you need to play more white ball stuff. So, you know, that it'd be interesting.

It's just a more complex world, isn't it? It is. The extra format and the way the schedules is just make it a more complex world. And when we played, it was very straightforward, wasn't it? You played first class cricket, you tried to get into the test team. And that was that that and it was a bit easier in a way. Liam Livingstone last night, he gave it some welly. He took Rashid Khan for 26 in and over,

which I think, well, Rashid Khan, it was his most expensive figures in T20, most expensive figures in the 100 last night. And Living was, my hitter. The game was on the beep as well. And I think that they were, I think he got in a bit of a spat with Tom Curran, didn't he, who sledged him a bit. And then he gave, he gave it some welly and a bit back at the end of the game, but there was some incredible hitting. He does hit it ferociously hard. I mean, when you're in that position, down at ground level. He's not a stroker of the ball.

He's not somebody who's, you know, gently just working it away. But honestly, when you watch him in full flow, like last night, he hits it as hard as anybody. He said he doesn't pick Rashid Khan. And I think that was the pitch again,

because he doesn't pick Rashid Khan, he says, but because there was that bounce, he just in the end could get down on one knee and, and, and kind of hit it with the bounce as it were. Cause as you know, Rashid Khan is quick and into the pitch. Sorry. What about that shot of Rashid Khan? I mean, we might get him trying to do a demo where he stood on off stump and he just put his head down and just sort of flicked it over square leg for six. I mean, that was just an incredible cricket shot.

How you can get so much power with a flick.

Yeah. Amazing. It struck me as the kind of shot that maybe Rishabh Pant could play, you know, just almost no back lift and then just iron wrists helping it on its way. But yeah, he hit some amazing, amazing shots at the end, but went the distance. Can I talk to you about the tournament in general and the 100 in general? And I know you've been

speaking to the Tech Titans and various owners that are in. And at the end of this year, it's gonna obviously have massive changes in the direction of travel. I noticed you did a piece about the tech titans and I just picked up on a couple of comments from your readers underneath actually.

And I thought it sort of summed up where we are with the hundred and not necessarily how we see the hundred, but how the public see the 100. And underneath was a comment. As Chris Stokes puts it, and Chris Stokes obviously

writes for the I-paper, going from the test series to the 100 is like having read a literary masterpiece and then being offered a Mr. Men book. The razzmatazz cannot conceal the vacuity of it all. Now there'll be people who have watched that magnificent test series that put the 100 on the TV

and go, what is this? Made up teams, what's this all about? So that's one angle. And then an answer to that was I read or was read Mr. Men books as a kid. That was my path to learning to read and now I love reading and often revisit the classics and love them. Conversely, if my first book was War and Peace, it may have put me off reading

for life. And that is the thing I have sensed in Grounds. And his point is from Richard and underneath your article was that is the gateway into the game for a lot of young people is through the hundred. When we turn up, I don't know what it was like at Edge Basin yesterday, the crowds were down a bit at Edge Basin yesterday, but every single hundred game I've turned up to has a completely different feel to it it has a real young audience the amount of autographs and photographs

from young kids and families with the hundred surely surely that is a good thing now I know your argument that it's been given prime time school holidays best weather cheaper ticket prices why wouldn't families turn up? But does that matter when young people have been sort of shown the game of cricket and excited by the game of cricket?

Well, you put cricket on in August and encourage people to come, people will come, cricket's a great game. No, I mean, put cricket on in August in school holidays. That seems to me obvious. That's nothing to do with the format per se. I mean, whatever. If you put the blast on in August, people will come and watch as they used to do from the sets. But the problem with the Blast was that it did end up getting a bit rowdy and a bit,

you know, alcohol consumed and things like that. And this tournament is a little bit more family friendly. I definitely get the sense in the ground. And that now you may say, OK, that's fine. But I want to know the direction of Travelaf. Where do you think this tournament's going?

Because people are coming in with big money. I think eventually I don't know what you think. It's going to have to become a T20 competition. I think there's too many formats. I think they may want it to align with all their other franchises and become a T20 competition.

And then. Money is coming in in and these big owners will want to get the most out of this window as possible. Yeah I mean you know my as you know my view was that the setting up of the separate entities was to get money in because people like the tech titans who we can talk about the conversation I had with them

in a minute, but they're not gonna pump money into members-owned counties. They're just not gonna do that because you don't have any control in members-owned clubs. So you set up separate entities, which was done, and investment eventually comes in five years later.

That was the rationale for setting up the tournament to get, and 500 million will go into the game. I think, you know, whatever they've sold it for, the enterprise value of the tournament upwards of 900 million and more. So, and in fact, you know, one of the tech guys that we, I chatted, I was there, I went to Lord's about three hours after the last ball of the India series

to chat to a couple of the owners of the London franchise. One, Nick Esherora, has been on our podcast. And you know, they talk about that the ECB have incubated this tournament. They see it very much as a kind of startup. They've kind of bought into it. And this year is very much a holding year, and they're going to be taking a lot more responsibility and control on it from here on in. So they have three and a half weeks in August,

and then they will decide how that tournament starts to look and be shaped in future. We've already seen that some of the names are going to change. The Manchester Originals, they're going to go to the Supergiants, aren't they? They don't know whether it's Manchester Originals Supergiants or Manchester Supergiants. I suspect the latter. And a couple of the players

in that team, Josh Butler and Heinrich Klassen, are going to be in their franchises around the world. So there's very much a sense there of that franchise having a global look at things of which Manchester is part of their overall thing. So that's how it's going to be. I mean, I don't think that it'll immediately go T20. Maybe in the medium term that will change, but if you change it to T20 and you lengthen it, there are some knock-on consequences because what do you do then about the double headers? Then it becomes a much longer day. The double headers have been the outstanding success story

of the tournament, haven't they? What it's done for the women's game obviously has been fantastic and I suspect if you decouple it, you know, it's not gonna be, the feel of it, which is very much a kind of all-in feel, that's gonna change. So I don't sense that they're gonna change that immediately,

but I might be wrong. My issue is not so much about balls and pitches and money and all these sort of things. My issue is when do we get that emotional attachment to a team? You know, that was my issue when I turned up for the first game. Having been at the Test Match Series for 25 days and seeing the importance and the attachment and the eyes and the passion and what it must have meant to Indian people in India watching that and

willing their side, willing Siraj to get that last wicket. There was a real attachment to the game, the team, the individual. Same with England. Can Chris Wokes walking down those stairs for his team, for his country and the whole of England watching going, come on, let's do this. To turning up on the Tuesday where you've got four new teams, new players trying to work out who plays for who. When are we going to get that emotional

attachment? Because it's different. You can't say, well, it works in India in the IPL, we'll just follow that model, because it's different in India. A, completely cricket mad nation that will watch till midnight and follow it forever and have as many games as you want. But also they are attached to the individual. So before this year, last couple of years, RCB women won it as well. RCB was the most successful franchise as far as viewership and following, but they Women won it as well. RCB was the most successful franchise as far as viewership and following,

but they'd won nothing. But why were they the most successful as far as digital clicks and following? Was because they had Virat Kohli, Chris Gayle, AB De Villiers, they had the biggest names. In India, there's an attachment to the name,

the biggest names. In England, I still see the attachment in sport is to the club, the football, Manchester United, you know, Lancashire County Cricket Club, Essex County Cricket Club. When are we gonna get the attachment to the London spirit?

Well, how do you get that attachment? The people watching on TV, when I watch on TV, Friday night, I'm going to watch Liverpool play Bournemouth and I want one side to win and one side to lose. I want Bournemouth to win because Liverpool will be a threat to Arsenal. When I watch a game of the hundred, it's just like I'm watching two teams. It's when do we get that sort of, I really want this team to win sort of

feeling? I mean, that was a this team to win sort of feeling?

I mean, that was a question right at the start of the tournament, people

questioning whether, you know, you could get that connection to a newly enfranchised team. I mean, I've said this to you before, because they talk about tribal connection, the tribal loyalties, and that's what they want to try and create. There are some ready-made connections in cricket, and I do not see why Joe Root can't be playing for the Northern Superchargers alongside Johnny Bairstow and the famous players who've been through and come through the Yorkshire production program. You know, my view would be that their ready-made connections build on them. And obviously they wanted to do something completely different. And there were issues

with how this tournament evolved right at the start. Some of the language from the organisers that this is not for you or whatever. It became a very divisive tournament, partly for that reason. So there were mistakes made there. But I also think that, you know, if you've got a franchise like the Northern Superchargers, it can be connected to Yorkshire and Durham and maybe Derbyshire, and then you get your overseas players. So then you have your already made connections with Bairstow, Root, Harry Brook, Ben Stokes, they're all going to play for that franchise.

That seems to me a win-win, isn't it? Because then you're attracting traditional supporters who've got those connections with your homegrown players or locally produced players. And you're transporting that loyalty through. Now, that's not the way that modern franchise cricket goes, because you know, you're having an auction or whatever at the start to try and create that competitive balance. But because of your point about the

traditional kind of connections and loyalties here, I would build on those rather than just ignoring those. But that's not the way they've done it. And if you do already have now get a connection like now it's too late for Johnny best I take Johnny best and now I when I see John if I picture Johnny bestow in the hundred now I picture him in that red Welsh fire outfit. So there's now a connection don't next year I don't want to turn up and see him playing for you know, Birmingham Phoenix. I do feel in the men's game, the women's not as much. The men's game, I do feel there's just a bit too much. You know, like Lewis

Gregory, suddenly he's captained really well at Trent Rockets and suddenly he's moved on. And then you like, you know, like the first game I left, did my prep at the Oval for the Test match. We all do our prep. We don't just rock up to a game, right, who's playing today. I could probably name about 13, 14 of the 44 players and where they were going to play, because there is so much chopping and changing. I would personally like to get to a stage now where you rock up to 100 game, two games, and out of the 44, you have maybe 30 players that you know are in those four teams or squads

and then there will always be chopping and changes. Premier League, look at the amount of chopping and changing that's still going on in transfer windows. IPL, there's always going to be players that move around that has been in the history of sport but I do want to see a little bit more, this is who this player plays for, men and women, and then you sort of rock up and know that that's the team. And that team means a lot to them. It's just not, I'll go and play for someone else next season.

That's just my opinion. I'd like to see a bit more emotional attachment

to a side in all directions.

Well, yeah, and how you do that is the key thing. And my point would be that it's already there, therefore build on it. It's just there, you know, Johnny Bairstow, Yorkshire, Northern Superchargers, build on that. That's obvious.

Anyway, that's not what they've done. Who's taken your eye? Obviously we both, I think like watching Sonny Baker the other night at Old Trafford. He gave David Warner the hurry up. I mean, you know, that in itself is a good sign. He's quite lively, isn't he? And skiddy and sharp. And I know they were very impressed with him in

the Lions, who went down to Australia last year. So he could be a bit of a bolter for the, for the winter. Yeah. I mean, we were WhatsAppping each other. Weren't we about that? And anyone that's got David Warner jumping around when, when David Warner has that smirky smile at the end of the end of a five, it's not because he likes you.

He's like, uh, crikey. That was pretty good to be honest. Smirk and smiley guy Sonny Baker it was it was hostile stuff and the speed gun and he may say 86 87 but sometimes bowlers just feel a bit quicker and he does seem he seems to feel a bit quicker my only issue is I've not seen him enough in long-form cricket to know what will his third fourth spell be like come back the next day. But as you say, the reports from the Lions was that he was, he was excellent.

So, uh, absolutely with him. Another thing I just want to touch on, actually, because I know you've been away in the women's game. Um, I think in the women's side, some of the tactical stuff needs keeping an eye on, you know, we just spoke about Alice Capps seeing the, uh, and everyone now looks at it and analyzes. I think we could analyze the, some of the decision-making as well. There've been games where I've sort of shook

my head in disbelief. Like there was a game at the oval in Vince at the oval when Manchester originals, they, there were like 15, 20 balls to go. And Sophie Eccleston has a strike rate of 145 in the competition. And Alice Monaghan was sent in next, and she has a strike rate of something like 80 or 85 with 15 or 20 balls to go.

It's just a no brainer to send Sophie Eccleston. And there was another game I did at Trent Rockets when Nat Siverbrunt, who is constantly left with the tail, and there was 25 balls to go and 20 balls to go, and they needed 40 to win or something. And Nat Siverbrunt took a single off the first of the 10

and should have taken all of the 10. And then the next game, Nat Siverbrunt came in at number four with Ash Gardner at number five. Your two best players were like coming in with balls used up. So I do think there can be a little bit, I really like the women's comp, and I think it's gone really well again.

But I do think there can be some better decisions made in tactically in that women's competition. And before we move on to just one or two issues beyond the 100, because there's been some movement in the domestic structure this week, I just wanted to quickly talk about one player in the men's tournament, Rehan Ahmed, who's actually having a good season all round, he's having a brilliant season for

Leicestershire, and he's talked of as an obvious candidate or pick for the Ashes. I just wondered how you saw that, because if you said to me, are there better batters than Ray and Ahmed in England, I would say yes. And if you said to me, is there a better wrist spinner? I'd probably say yes as well in Kelvin Harrison. But if you put the two together with what Rehan Ahmed's been doing with bat and ball, he makes a very strong case for selection, but I'm just not quite sure how I see him, whether batting, bowling, how he gets in, other than by saying, you know,

he's had a really good season and he's already played test cricket and he's a very young and exciting player and therefore will take him. Well, I think he's a hugely exciting player and all you can ask of a young player is are they improving and he is absolutely improving, you know, with bat and with ball. The runs he's got at the top of the order, batting at three for Leicestershire has been phenomenal. The wickets with a Cookebra ball, he's been taking wickets.

So he's absolutely improving. The problem is, is that England don't quite know what type of cricketer he is and how they fit in on the back of the exact point you're making. So the problem is, is I think Bashir should and will start as your frontline spinner. If Bashir is not producing the goods, it won't be because of his batting. It'll be because he's not bowling particularly well and looking ineffective with the ball

and hence you'll want to change him for a better spinner. Now they are not convinced, you know, Rayan got got Fifer on debut and in Pakistan, but they are still not convinced that he is a better spinner than Shoaib Bashir and some of the other names. So that is there. The issue is not with Rayan.

I think Rayan is improving beyond sight. And even in white ball cricket, you can see the trend rockets. Andy flower doesn't get many wrong. Andy flowers, patting him at three ahead of some very fine players and he's producing already a small sample size. So he has got something. The problem is not with Ryan. It's the problem is how England see him and how they how they play him. You know what white ball cricket may be the way to go with Rayan Ahmed. They're looking constantly for future after Adil Rashid. Often again, we talked about Jacob Bethel and Sam Billings

and Bibb carrying and carrying the drinks. I often seen Rayan Ahmed selected in squads but not playing. I think they may have to just go, right, we're going to play him in white ball stuff and help his future

that way.

They seem to have decided on the structure of the blast this week. They've announced that it's going to be down in the men's comp down to 12 games and that's going to be down in the men's comp down to 12 games. And that's going to be played and completed before the 100 starts, which has to be a good thing, doesn't it? It's a no-brainer that. Yeah, you can't have tournaments that are just separated by months on end. And the only thing I'd say, and I think they still haven't made a decision,

have they? There's still arguments about the county championship. And I think it's a point you've made in the past. You've got to feel for your spectator a little bit. If every year you're making changes, even I was rushing to my phone this morning to text Benedict because obviously the women's are changing now. There's another tier one team in Yorkshire. They're changing from 14 to 12, 14 to 16 and 50 overs and you can't have change every year.

And that's my point about, that's why I asked you and I gave you the quote from below your piece, about the 100, about it. I think this is a great opportunity with money coming into the English game. I think this summer and the end of this summer was and is a great opportunity to look at where everything is at and there's a bit of finances around so make cricketing decisions as opposed to just purely finance and I know finances are important just look where English cricket is because of finances compared to some countries that don't have it so it is important but also cricketing decision and decisions for spectators.

I mean, the Metro Bank 50, I don't know if you've been following it, but the crowds have been phenomenal, haven't they? York yesterday was a sellout.

They've been brilliant.

York sellout yesterday. I actually went to Lourdes on, I can't remember what day it was, I took my daughter down to Lourdes to watch three hours of the Middlesex-Sussex game. Not that we saw our family member get very many, but anyway, we turned up and it was a beautiful afternoon. There was a good crowd on and it was a lovely afternoon, even at Lourdes, which is a massive ground. Obviously, it looks sometimes odd at Lourdes, doesn't it, when you have a county game and there's not a huge crowd. But I would say there was a good few thousand

on, a very pleasant afternoon. But because of the fact that the 100 is taking up the main grounds, the Metro Bank, the One Day Cup is often at outgrounds, and they're often perfect venues, actually. Because if you get 5,000, 6 thousand on it, whatever it is, it looks fantastic as it did. I just saw a couple of aerial shots of York, which used to be a first class venue. I think they actually played return to first class cricket there in the last year or two, but historically

it was a first class game. Langs play at Sedbro and various places, you know, lots of outgrounds being used. I think Rugby School's being used today for a game. I think that's one thing you've learned. Yeah, Radler. Yeah. So, yeah, good crowds and a good day out.

And, you know, that's fine. I've often in the past argued that you should play a couple of rounds of county championship cricket under the hundred because it's a completely almost different audience. And you can just say, well, those who like to go to outgrounds and watch a full days cricket go there and those who want to go for the Razzmatazz of the 100 go there.

And the Metro Bank, the One Day Cup offers that alternative. And crowds have been very good. The good thing about the comp, although I mean, I think there are going to be problems down the line because if you just degrade your 50-over comp to an effective second-eleven, com-developmental competition and England don't do well in 50-over World Cups, then there's going to be questions asked. But what you do see is a lot of young players coming through and that's probably

for all the best will in the world, seeing somebody like David Warner playing the 100. He's had his career almost, he's at the back end of it. And the great thrill in cricket is to see good young players coming through. And obviously that's what you see a lot in the 50 overcomers. Where are you going next? Are we going to catch up? I'm at the Oval on Saturday, I think. Are you there then? You're doing your second game two weeks into the competition at the Oval on a Saturday.

You're only doing your fourth. You make it sound like you've worked every day that God has sent. You've done three games. Well done. I'm going to have to put the car in for a service, the amount of miles I've done. I've got three games in five days. I'm at Lourdes tomorrow and then the Oval and then Utility Bowl as well. So looking forward to those. As am I. So we'll catch up.

So I've got the Oval, Southampton and Lord's, three in five days, and then a Northern weekend next weekend up at my old Trafford, where I saw the cameras panned in to Paul Allert and David Lloyd one day, were looking like Adler and Waldorf on the balcony, gloomily kind of peering down at whatever was happening in front of them. But there's a few things happening at Lancashire, I think. And those two involved. Anyway. Daughter needs breakfast. The kitchen needs to be evacuated for breakfast for daughter.

I've got to fix my Wi-Fi issues as well.

Good to catch you. I'll see you at the Oval this weekend.

See you at the Oval. See you at the Oval. Goodbye.