‘Bin Off That Officer!’ | Victim HANDCUFFED Whilst Bleeding To Death After Stabbing By Sikh Man

Morning, Peter.Good morning.So good to see you.We haven't spoken since the conviction of a man who murdered a wonderful young guy, 18 years of age.His name was Henry Novak, and he bled out of his own body as cops handcuffed him.He said, I'm dying, I've been stabbed, I'm bleeding, I can't breathe.

Their answer, the cops said, I don't think so.He then passed away.Those cops believed the murderer's lie that a racist remark had been made.What's your view of this whole story?

At the very, very best in this situation, those police officers were guilty of a shocking, appalling lack of professional curiosity.As a detective, as a police officer, anybody in law enforcement, curiosity is one of the most important assets you can have.So, of course, when somebody says to you, I've been stabbed, your curiosity would immediately say, where?Show me the wound.How can I help you?The primary role of an effective police is the protection of life and property.

You learn that on day one when you sign up when you take that oath.So that shocking lack of professional curiosity is the best case scenario I can take from this.The very worst case scenario that I think may come out of these circumstances is that those police officers were racist inasmuch as they believed the word of a brown man over the word of a white man. thereby displaying an institutional, anti -racist, woker -y, fluffy, liberate -y kind of progressive nonsense mindset, which has probably been instilled to them through the teachings that they've had in their training and the environment that they work in.And look how dangerous that can be.

Most definitely.And where is the empathy as this lad lay dying with handcuffs on, essentially being abused and gas lit by two police officers who have a duty of care to every member of the public?

And it goes beyond those officers on the front line.Look at that pathetic temporary deputy chief constable, France, who spoke last week.utterly appalling let's park the insensitivities of his words for a moment if we may albeit that was absolutely shocking when he tried to say well words to the effect of he was going to die anyway and i'm sorry if that sounds insensitive but that really was in essence in a nutshell what he was saying it was he was just pathetically refusing to acknowledge in any way, shape or form that there'd been an element of wrongdoing.He was trying to defend the indefensible, which clearly shows that man is not fit to hold the rank to be a police officer, to have a warrant card, bin him off, get rid of him.But he's so typical of so many senior British police officers.

And what we've seen with those cops who handcuffed Henry Novak is that ideologically, ideology, it blinds you, doesn't it?Oh, yes.So that you don't have common sense anymore.that you don't have, as you said, the curiosity and that you don't have the human empathy.

yes but of course temporary detective chief constable I'm sorry that's a long clunky title it's what they've given him not what I've made up he again said they were kind of going on what they've been told over the radio as they made their way to the scene okay I answered a thousand calls where you were told what the situation might be and you'll be like well that's one that's one view but but when I get there I'massess you exactly exactly you take a wide view you see what's going on you make those decisions like that in the blink of an eye.

It's the same as a journalist when I'm in the office preparing the show with Ted Jeffery and I have a producer that says oh we're hearing that Starmer's gonna resign this afternoon I don't just run on the radio and say that I check And I contact my own sources and Ted checks his sources as well.

Indeed.And that's exactly what you do when you arrive at a situation.As a police officer you might be going there.It might be a scene that you're told is riddled with violence.So what are you doing?If you're an armed officer you may just check your weapon in its holster.

You may just check your taser.Get it in and out of that holster quickly and easily.That's fine.Even going back to my old days, is my truncheon in my pocket.I've seen your truncheon.Yes, thank you very much.

Pleased to see me.What a whopper.And so on and so forth.You prepare, you prep, but you know that when you arrive on that scene, you've got to rely upon what you see, what you hear, what you're told, how it pans out.You do not go there with an utterly absolute fixed and closed off mindset according to what you're told.Now, get there and assess.

And another point I would make, and this featured in the interview yesterday on Talk which has been shared by Elon Musk, I made the point that why are we handcuffing people for alleged racism anyway?Because racist slurs are disgusting.I don't know why you would be cuffed for them.I don't know why you would be arrested.I would condemn you.I would say it's disgusting.

But am I throwing you in the nick?No.Not whilst there are rapists and burglars about.

Am I missing something here?Oh, I think what was probably going to happen, because of course, young Henry, rest his soul, we must reinforce that.tried to escape from his attacker okay he tried to run away after being stabbed So did those police officers, and I suspect this is what they're going to use as some kind of mealy -mouthed and pathetic defense of their actions, they might say, well, there was evidence of him trying to get away, so we handcuffed in order to prevent him doing that again.Excuse me, you handcuffed a man who was bleeding to death.

Most definitely.I don't think he was running anywhere in that state, was he, other than to his nearest A &E?

Exactly.But of course, you know, there is an expression that the police have for this kind of thing when they arrive on scene into a situation just like this.It's called a dynamic risk assessment.So make that risk assessment immediately.Is there a risk to a member of the public, to wider members of the public, to the officers themselves?That's their expression.

They've got their own phrase for it.And clearly they did not do that.

Now, can we also go back to this idea that racist remarks should be such that you are handcuffed and arrested?I would change that, because I detest racist remarks, but we didn't used to handcuff people and arrest them and put them in jail, because police used to worry much more about burglars, rapists and murderers.Yes, indeed.Again, am I missing something here?But educate me, Peter.

And now, of course, there's a lot more burglars, rapists and murderers for the police to worry about.And I wonder why that is.Because they've surrendered the streets, of course, which is kind of another subject.

But would you, in your own right heart, cuff someone for using a horrific slur?Because I wouldn't.

No, no.There's got to be justification.The use of force in policing needs to beproportionate, needs to be reasonable.Reasonable is a buzzword that kind of applies to all application of force by police officers, whether that be shooting someone, tasering someone, handcuffing someone, taking them to the ground.Is what you're doing reasonable?

And, of course, handcuffing somebody for some what some might use say as hurty words?Is that reasonable?Is it necessary?Is it proportionate?That's a question that needs to be applied, that needs to be asked, and then you act accordingly.

Well, I think if the cop has got time, and they're not on their way to another more serious incident, if you did have two men that were fighting in the street because of a racial slur, I would take the person accused of the racial slur and I would say, did you say that?Did you not say that?Let me tell you, young man, that that's a disgusting thing to say, you know, because it's what cops do.They engage with the public and say, look, you've made this guy very angry.You've used the N -word.It's considered unacceptable.

Have a think about your actions.Right, I'm off to catch a burglar.That's as far as I would take it.

Well, that's your view of policing.That would be utterly contradicted by anybody currently serving.And I would say if somebody's using the N -word by way of a racial slur, they're getting nicked.Really?Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.You're getting nicked.

But is that appropriate?Yes, I definitely think so.

Why?It's a disgusting word, but why would you get handcuffed for that?

It's arguably the most vile word in the lexicon of English language these days.Of course it is.And secondly, because I'm going to arrest you for using that word, and I would, invariably, almost exclusively, I would say.You wouldn't have done that in the 80s, would you?90s?It depends.

No chance, Peter.It all depends on the broadsituation that we're talking about.If there's a scene of some confrontation... and somebody has used that word, then they are definitely coming with me.They are definitely being nicked.

See, I would say if it was gather all brown people and kill them, then you're cuffed, because that is incitement to violence.If it's globalised the intifada, which we saw on the hate marches, which means bombs in shopping centres, you're cuffed.But the N -word, the P -word, or some offensive remark about a white person like Gammon or something, it's horrific, it's not good, I'm furious about it, but I do not see that it should take any police time.

And we're also...

Again, am I missing something?

Whilst we're having a joyous disagreement here, which I'm thoroughly enjoying.Because I'm all ears on this.Yeah, yeah, yeah.Now the other thing is, if that person is then, that I've arrested, is going to be placed in the back of a police car, where they may be sitting behind the driver of that police car or they might be sitting behind me as the operator of that police car.They are very much going to be handcuffed because people will sometimes put their hands around the neck of a police officer.They will try and disable the driver or the passenger.

But I wouldn't have you in the car or the van in the first place for any words that were not incitement to violence that would be my but I mean you're the expert you're the policing expert no no no and I've it's a very long time since I've been in but the same with a homophobic slur if you said someone's a great this or that again why should you be cuffed if you walk up to somebody in the street and you call them the n -word I'm nicking you that is what about if you call a gay person some slur that's anti -gay is that nickable as well i think depending on yeah i think by now like f a f a g g o t for example you know would that be is that cuffs cuffs on

I'm absolutely convinced that falls within the definition of a public order offence and you're gonna get nicked.

But that's just a casual slur, I mean some gay people call themselves that.

Well, yes, same as some black people call themselves the n -word, but this is what has been decreed by Parliament and is wider regarded as being acceptable or not.You cannot walk down the street pointing fingers at people and calling them the n -word, same as you can't call people the p -word, and a number of others.I completely agree.You shouldn't be able to walk down the street with or without a placard saying, globalise the Intifada, either.You're going to get your collar felt by me for that as well.

And of course that never happens.

Only of late they've just suddenly decided it's bad.Yes, well that's because they've appeased in the first place, you see.They've spent so many weekends appeasing the people on those pro -Palestine marches and allowing them therefore to become emboldened with their vileness.that of course when you're appeased you become empowered and you shout more and you shout worse and you shout it louder.

there just to be judged and condemned publicly but I don't think it's a good use of cops time but I'm not the expert.Peter is.You're the expert too because you live with the consequences of these policies.0344 499 1000.Next up the BBC, Ban Farage.We've got the inside story.

Lovely to have your company.This is Talk Breakfast 6 .36Graham in Orsworth has messaged the show.Nicola Sturgeon is moving to England.You shouldn't be surprised.People who hate England arrive by the boatload every day.

It's true, actually.Nicola Sturgeon coming to England.Is that an example of illegal immigration?If you're just joining us, a couple of things about Nicola Sturgeon.One, she says that the reason why we're being critical of her is because she's a woman.not mentioning that her husband is a crook that stole from the people that generously donated to their party, the SNP, and she's going to apparently look for a house in England because there's just too much attention up in Scotland.

Let's take a voice note if we can.Do you still have faith in British justice and policing?Here's Tristan.

Hello, Mark.I can see it's going to be a good show.Yeah, the justice system is broken, by far, to be honest with you.The problem you have is that...The judicial system focuses on identity, woke politics, and political correctness, and it ignores the actual crimes.Unless the crime fits the narrative, there isn't much that they actually do, to be honest with you.

And that's the problem we have, is so many things is focused on everything else, like the situation with Nicola Sturgeon.She thinks it's about a woman.No, it's because of your husband has committed Tremendous fraud.But this is the thing.It's the same thing with the attacks in Manchester.They go on about racism.

No, it's because you attacked the police and broke a woman's nose.That's how it is.The focus on the actual crime isn't there.It's all on identity politics.

important, apposite and relevant point about Britain in 2026.When anybody is accused of anything they play the victim card.All the time.It happens across the board.Anybody accused of wrongdoing, overstepping the mark, they suddenly have to play that card.I'm a victim.

And it occurs in crimes.The other night, for example, I go down to a village in Kent and have a drink with my mate.Okay?Friday night.Nice.I get an Uber home.

Right, please avoid Uber in my opinion, they're dreadful.Right, I couldn't get a minicab.

You'd prefer a traditional black cab or a minicab?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.Got an Uber, right.A brown -faced fella is driving it.He's doing 82mph down the A2, driving me home.So bad.I point out to him that the speed limit is 70.

I'm trying to photograph his speedometer to get some evidence from the backseat.Yeah.He doesn't listen to me.He takes no notice of what I say.So I raise my voice.I add a bit of sternness to what I'm saying and reiterate what I've said earlier.

It was a dreadful drive home.When I got to my home, I photographed his car.I jumped straight onto Uber and registered a complaint.

You have to.

82 is dangerous.Because the guy's just a danger.And the rest of his driving was also...He's also his own worst enemy because he's going to lose And guess what?Guess what?When Uber did their investigation, whatever that might have been, which clearly included speaking to him, he came back and said what?

I made racist slurs against him and of course I did nothing of the sort not one word of any such lie.

Peter I've known you for years you don't have a racist bone in your body but you've just told me on the radio and the telly that you would nick someone for using the n -word so you're the opposite of racist.

It's the only thing he had to come back as as a defense and of course he made those slurshe lied and he played the actually I'm a victim it's across the board now Sturgeon's claiming she's a victim she was married to a thief And so it goes on.When do people ever say, do you know what?I did something wrong.I'll take it on the chin.I accept my punishment.

It's absolutely disgusting.We saw it the same with the Manchester 2, who will not face a third trial.Their lawyers were ranting and raving about far right and Islamophobia.B .S.What people were concerned about is widely shared footage of violence towards police officers.

Nothing Islamophobic about that.

Pointing the victim at anyone.and they claim they are.Point the finger at anyone and they become the victim.I'm a victim, I'm a victim.But you've broken the law.I'm a victim.

It's across the board everywhere.Let me tell you that we've got a voice note on policing.This is the lovely Have.Take a listen to this.

Good morning, Mark and Mr. Blexley.How are we this morning?This is Hef from Kent.Yeah, I feel so, so credibly sorry for the family of the young lad that got stabbed.And who the hell do these police officers think they are to be judge and jury?Who the hell do they think they are to make their own mind up and their own decision on what's going on?

They didn't look at the situation.They didn't assess the situation.They just made assumptions.And they, basically, they thought they were judge and jury.And because of that, that poor young man died.I am absolutely disgusted to the core.

I feel so incredibly sorry for the family and anybody else that has anything to do with these police officers.I'm appalled.They should be damned.for manslaughter.I'm sorry.

Thank you, Hev.A couple of things.Before I get to Neville in Norfolk, Peter, Is it worth looking at a possible manslaughter scenario, given that these officers have handcuffed a dying man?

Well, there's an independent Office of Police Conduct investigation going on at the moment, and they've already announced that these officers are being dealt with as witnesses.Let that investigation play out.I don't want to say anything that might jeopardise it.

Do you have confidence it would be fair?

No, the IOPC is an organisation that has proven time and time again it's fundamentally not fit for purpose.Is it the cops marking their own homework?To a degree it is, insomuch as a lot of the staff are former police officers.But there's a greater civil service, woke, liberality, progressive mindset that pollutes that.organisation.When you then couple it with the fact that it's rampantly inefficient and often useless, it's really not a good mix.

Not a good mix at all.So what you're holding, you're keeping your counsel on that one, that you wouldn't rule out manslaughter charges?

I mean this is the same organisation that put NX121 on trial for murder for shooting Chris Cabber.That's the organisation.I think they'd love to nail a police officer if they possibly could for murder or manslaughter.I think that they would be thrilled if they did that.We'll just have to wait and see.

Fascinating.Neville's in Norfolk.Good morning, Neville.Welcome to Talk Breakfast.Good morning to you both.Lovely to have you on.

Now, Peter and I have had a fascinating conversation.Although I'm not an expert on policing or the law, Neville, I do not believe that anyone should be handcuffed or arrested for any racist slurs.I think the only time you cuff someone is incitement to violence.What's your view?

Yes, absolutely.nailed it on the head.I normally absolutely agree with Peter Blackley but I'm afraid this morning he's fallen into the hurty words trap.

Peter?No, absolutely not.Let's just look at some things that are utterly unacceptable.Okay.N, using the N word, and I think we all understand the context that we're talking about here, to describe a person of colour, is not a hurty word.It is a deeply, deeply offensive, racist, inescapably racist slur.

And you're getting nicked if you say that.If you walk down the street and you...

Go on, Neville.Ridiculous, absolutely ridiculous.What was Guy Gibson's Black Labrador called?It's the bastardization of language that's being used against people.Alright, yes, I agree with Peter, you shouldn't be using it, I get that.

It's a horrible word.

Yes, maybe, but... you know it's the bastardization of language and to nick somebody for that when somebody's here has been murdered basically and ignored by the police i think it's disgusting and also neville i just wonder i mean otherwise you'd need the equivalent for people who are not of color wouldn't you you would need to handcuff someone for honky for gammon redneck all the way and i thought peter was above all that Well, we're not going to throw Peter under the bus, I suppose.No, no, I don't want to get at him, but he's on there to say his opinion and I'm here to disagree with it.

Neville, I've got very broad shoulders, bud, and I'm always up for a robust debate, but there are certain words that Parliament and society has decreed are beyond the pale and you cannot walk down the street calling people that.

But isn't that, haven't you, as Neville suggests,fallen into the hurty word trap there is that not the essence of woke which is a hierarchy of victim so the n -word is worse than coconuts honky redneck gammon if that's a hierarchy if you are walking down a street or you are like to be called you are in a public place And you are using hate -filled racist language.

I think honky's hate -filled.Yeah, well, given the circumstances, it might well be.depending upon who's saying it and what the circumstances are.I'm not saying that that's beyond the pale, that you won't get your collar felt.It depends upon the circumstances.But let me just remind something, because Neville made a slight error there, okay?

Henry Novak did not use racist language at all.That was an absolute lie that that revolting person, Digwa, that convicted murderer, made up.and told the police absolutely...I didn't actually use that word.No, no, no, I know, but I just want it to be clear here.Deguire was a liar and a murderer, and I'm very pleased that a court convicted him, which will of course be scant consolation to those who loved Henry.

Neville, quickly before you go, because I'm going to get to an alternative view in just a moment.Your final thoughts on this, Neville?

Well, as I say, it's Orwellian.It's 1984 worrying about words.I'm sorry, I don't agree with it.

Neville, enjoyed your call.Please call me again soon.Thanks for your input on this debate.We're going to hear from Gary in Glasgow next, who is a man of colour who agrees with Peter that you should be arrested if you use certain words.That's next.Do you still have faith in British policing and justice?

Diana in West London.Good morning Mark and hello Peter.Superb show, I never miss it.Diana, thank you for that.I no longer have faith in the police, which is something I never thought I'd hear myself say.They've got to release the body of a

footage, 999 transcript and any other relevant information about the Henry Novak case.This is a lad that was handcuffed as he bled to death.There is so much anger and people are smelling a cover -up I fear if they obfuscate things could turn nasty as they did in Southport.P .S.Hilarious wee cranky Mrs Doubtfire sketch.

Well Nicola Sturgeon is going to move to England.which is ironic because she tried to break up the United Kingdom and it didn't go very well.Simon, hi, a question for Peter.If a white person uses the n -word then you would arrest them but how about when a black person uses the n -word as a badge of respect between each other?Well of course what you've said there, Natasha had a similar question, your argument is that it's not a dangerous or weaponised word among people of colour.

It's context.It's all about context.You can't say that a blanket kind of rule of thumb would apply here and there.It all depends on context.Say, for example, as I walk out of this studio later on this morning, if somebody came up to me, pointed their finger and said, you, you grey -balding, four -eyed, fat old git, right?It's a bit harsh.

Who said that to you?Was that Ted or Dave the Engineer?It's also quite true to be honest with you.You're a silver fox.It's a description.Am I going to be offended by that?

No.

Would I engage in some kind of conversation?Even if you were, it's not the same as being stabbed or mugged.

And I wouldn't expect any police officer to arrest anybody who called me that.I really would not expect that.That's a completely... different set of circumstances, but there are certain words that are beyond the pale that cannot be said and would lead pretty much invariably if I was still policing to you getting your collar fell.

Gary's in Glasgow.Gary, by the way, before we start, are you going to miss Nicola?Sturgeon when she moves to England?

Her name is not Nicola Sturgeon.I call her Sturgey.And no, I can't stand the woman.I detest her.I'm an Englishman.I'm stuck up here.

But honestly, I've been called very quickly.I've been called that I've been mad or whatever because I voted for reform.up there where I live.But I'll tell you this now, these people, stupid, these people who voted in SNP again for 19 odd years, unbelievable, unbelievable.That's a story for another day and I'm warning you.I know.

Gary, you know what I would call it?

I would call it Stockholm Syndrome, where you develop an affection for your captor.Country's ruined.Right, now let's get on to the N word.Tell me what you think.

I'm angry with you, Mark.Go for it.And I'm angry with the person I understand, so let me blow over this.First of all, the person who was texting said about people, black people use the N -word.Mainly Americans, mainly singers, and calling another person the N -word, a black person calling another person the N -word is not a racist term.It's not Jew, it's not based on racism.

A white person calling it and not under the court, he calls it out blatantly shouts out blah, blah, blah, which I'll tell you in a second.That's a racist term.Of course it is. I don't agree with it.I don't agree with it, Mark.But it's a racist term.Okay, not going to change.

Secondly, I'm not of color.I get really cheesed off.And you said earlier on, I'm not of color, Mark.I'm a black person.Don't be ashamed to use the word black.I am a black person born and bred in this country.

So I have no idea why, why White people, white people, predominantly are calling people of colour.

Now, I think, Gary, I think it's because we're so confused about what the latest politically correct phraseology is. I mean, that's the problem, isn't it, Gary?I can't keep up with what the correct word is.So I'm so happy that you're a fine black British man. I betyou're an absolute doll and that's great but I've just got to keep up with the woke sort of library of words that I'm allowed to use today.

This is talk radio this is this is talk radio you are not going to get counseled or whatever you want to call it, you're not going to get yourself in trouble recording people black.I'm a black man always but always I was born a black man I would die a black man, and I'm always going to be a black man. I hate it when people call me a fella.I really do.Now, for you to say, for you to say, I absolutely 100 % agree with Peter.I was on a bus a few years back in Edinburgh, and something happened.It's minor incident.

and this guy, a couple of guys I think, guy came up to me and he called me the n -word okay blatantly shouted out more than one time people on the bus were ashamed they had nowhere to look and whatever the guy got off whatever and I'm standing there I'm five foot one by the way I can barely defend myself okay I'm 60 odd years of age so now these people were ashamed etc now This guy was out of order, completely out of order.I had nowhere to turn or whatever, apart from shrunken my... apart from just shrink up in a little ball and get off on my next stop, okay?Nick and Mark, it's racist.And for you to turn around and say, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, calling somebody honky, not because people are honky no more.That's back in the 70s, Mark.

No, Stephanie, Gary, Gary, we can both agree it's the most horrific word.It has never passed my lips.It's horrendous.

But Mark, what you're saying basically...I never disagree with that.Yeah, but Mark, what you're basically saying is, it's okay, fine, people can use it, blah blah, just put them in the corner and tell them off.This is, I don't know what you call it, this is...

stopping people from from from I can well I agree with you Gary but if you have the n -word which we both hate and you're a fabulous guy and it saddens me I'm horrified that that happened to you reallyit's horrific of course so but do you not create a hierarchy where the n -word not allowed but let's say other racial slurs are lowered down the kind of offense ladder?

I don't know how old you are.I was in the 70s and 80s I had all this crap of racism yeah all of it all of it okay and one of the biggest words racist words out there people hated was was being called the n -word and and over the years it became that it's become elite i think it's illegal i'm not quite sure maybe people can tell me but it's become illegal and and and i mean do we just stick with that gary do we just decide as a society the n -word is it and then leave it at that because the problem you've got is you've got other things like coconuts which many people consider racist An Indian woman called me a coconut because I'd voted reform.I'm black on the outside and white on the inside.

So should she be cuffed?That bird?Should she be cuffed?

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.No, she clearly can't be cuffed because that's a thing.That's not the racist term.Understand, Mark.When you're not getting it, I don't think you're getting it.

Well, no, I do.I wonder, Gary.No, I hear you.But I wonder whether the N -word is...That's a racist term.

Right, but Gary...It's a racist term.Let's cut it out.I hear you.I hear you.But maybe then, therefore, is the landing point for this debate that we just agree it's the N -word and nothing else because it is uniquely bad?

Should we just say the N -word, everything else, you're OK?

It's become a terminology which people don't like, which people, most people, 90 % of people are disgusted by it.White, black, brown, green, whatever.Most people are disgusted by it.It shouldn't be used.And Peter's absolutely right.I'm going to get going.

I know it's coming up to news.Peter's absolutely right.If he's heard them, report them, my man.report them.And if it's heard and it's proven, nick them, send them to prison, get them fined, and let them understand they can't use it.Stick up the good work.

Nice.

Gary, Gary, what I'm going to do, I'm going to use the L word on you.Legends, call me again soon.Really enjoyed our chat.Thank you, big man.Who's not going to miss Nicola Sturgeon when she moves to England, can you believe it?The brilliant Peter Bexley is staying with us and I'm so glad about that.

What a commentator, what a guy, of course, former top ex -cop as well.