Bombshell SNP Whistleblowers: Nicola Sturgeon ‘BULLIED’ Us After Sounding Peter Murrell Fraud Alarm

They were asking us to sign a blank cheque because Peter Murrell told us everything was fine.So you had a camper van and £107 ,000 going in and out and who was looking at that?

That there was something seriously wrong and it was absurd how nobody else was noticing it.

Leaked video shows Nicola Sturgeon shutting down questions about SNP finances at an internal meeting of party bosses in March 2021.At the time, her husband, Peter Murrell, had been embezzling money from the SNP for 11 years.This week, he was sentenced to five years and three months in jail.

The party's never been in a stronger financial position than it is right now.Just be very careful, all of us, about suggestions that there are problems with the party's finances.There are no reasons for people to be concerned about the party's finances and all of us need to be careful about not suggesting that there is.If I was a betting person, and just to be clear, Alison, this is not directed at you in any way, shape or form.But if I was a betting person, I would bet we'll see the statement that's just been read out in public this afternoon.

The Alison Nicola Sturgeon mentioned in the clip is Alison Graham, a member of the SNP's National Executive Committee at the time.And despite Sturgeon's prediction, the statement read out by Alison was not made public that afternoon.Five years later, we can reveal what was said for the first time.Alison's statement said that she and two others, Frank Ross and Cynthia Guthrie, were resigning from the SNP's Finance and Audit Committee because they couldn't get answers on party finances and were being hindered by people, including Peter Murrell.Speaking publicly for the first time on the scandal, Alison and Cynthia tell how they were bullied by SNP bosses, including Nicola Sturgeon, when they tried to sound the alarm.for a future independence referendum.

Subsequent SNP accounts suggested the money had been spent and in 2020 questions were being asked.

People were just asking well what you know what's happening to it and as the accounts came out through the Electoral Commission people were saying where's the money basically because they were not seeing it in the accounts originally.

There was definitely a perception of a problem with the finances, particularly in October when Stu Campbell from Wingsover Scotland had put out that I think there was like £97 ,000 cash in the bank and where was the independent referendum money?

Alison, a business analyst, and Cynthia, an HR executive, were appointed to their roles by new Treasurer Douglas Chapman, along with Edinburgh's then Lord Provost, Frank Ross.Chapman had just dislodged long -term Treasurer Colin Beattie and taken on the key role.Beattie would later be arrested by police in the SNP fraud probe, but was ultimately not charged.

burgeoned, it's mushroomed, it's gone up to 120 ,000 members.Potentially, the people who are doing the administration have been overwhelmed and maybe overstretched and I went in thinking this is a business problem, I'm sure we can sort it out quickly and collaboratively.

I was a business consultant for years, worked for a number of organisations and as an independent consultant, and specialised in things like strategy and governance and looking at communication and making sure you've got a good strategic picture of an organisation and help it achieve its goals and its aims.And that's entirely what I intended to do voluntarily.

But the trio quickly found that their attempts to find out about what was going on with the party's finances were being stymied by Peter Murrell, among others.In a Zoom meeting where the 2021 budget was being discussed, they noticed the figures on screen simply did not match.up.

a party solicitor, which I thought was odd that he was at the Finance and Audit meeting, but he was told by Peter to put up figures.So he was in the SNP office, I think, at that meeting, because it was a, you know, the local thing behind them.So he brings up on his screen share, and then Peter says, that's the wrong one.And he shook it down.And we were like, that's the wrong one.And then this other one came up, which is why I saw it, because I was like, oh, take a picture so I can zoom in on it, see what's going on here, before he takes it out again.

And that was the figures that they had, the budget for 2020, the actuals for 2020, which obviously had been in the previous year, and then the budget for 2021.And when we were frantically trying to scrutinise it before he took it out...

It was Frank, I think, who noticed, was it?

Frank noticed that the...It didn't add up.The budget for 2020 was out by £1 .51 million.So the sum at the bottom was wrong.Did you think they were bungling or they were plotting?

I thought they didn't work Excel.

Alison and Cynthia said they were sent the agenda for their first Finance and Audit Committee meeting at the last minute with little detail.And when the meeting took place, Murrell acted in a bizarre manner when asked where the referendum fund had gone.

So then I said to him, where's the money?And he looked to the mid -distance and pointed and he said, I can see it.And I found myself, it was really comical, because I found myself leaning to my screen and look up and I was going, I can't see it, where is it?

I mean, presumably he was joking, having a laugh.

No, he was very, he gestured a lot.He was like, kind of throwing his arms up to his efficacy.And you have to remember, this was all during Zoom.So he was in the Conservatory, which I think we've seen, because I think he gave his evidence to the Parliamentary Committee in there as well.I was thinking, is it in the guttering of the Conservatory?It's just, it's all, it was all very panicked.

would be the way I would describe it.So I think initially we were thinking it was just ridiculous.It was a bit, at times quite comical, but I thought, what's going on?

There was a lot of filibustering at the meeting as well.There was a lot of distraction.Bluffing.Kind of sleight of hand, which I don't know why anybody else would fall for that, because it was ridiculous.

Fundamentally, as members of this Finance and Audit Committee, you presumably went in expecting full disclosure of everything to do with finances for the party.What was it you got?

Well, I would have expected, speaking for yourself Cynthia, I'm sure you would too, the papers to be delivered the night before, or at least a few days before.So we would actually have the papers for the budget that they were asking us to discuss so that we could formulate our questions, we could analyse them.We didn't get any of that.

The two women say their attempts to get access to key financial information were blocked by party bosses, including Murrell.

I mean, it became very clear to us.It wasn't good to play ball with us.It's like treating you like a fool.It's like, you know, we could just say anything and move on.

They said the party hierarchy and other members of the Finance and Audit Committee did not seem interested in scrutinising spending.Financial reports would simply be waved through.

They were asking us to sign a blank cheque because Peter Murrell told us everything was fine.And I was like, we cannot do that.do that in good faith for ourselves, you know, reputationally and from a liability point of view, but also for the members.

On one occasion, they say another woman on the Finance and Audit Committee stunned them with her attitude.

We were asking lots of questions and that girl said, oh, you know, when we all started, we were asking lots of questions.But she said, somehow it all works.So you learn not to ask questions?She said it's just the way it is.She says, Peter's Peter, and it all seems to work.We used to ask questions too.

It turns out Peter's a fraudster.

Yes, and they were literally leaving the door open.

Alison, Cynthia and Frank decided to quit the Finance and Audit Committee after just two months.They argued that they were being blocked from carrying out their roles overseeing party finances.Alison was also a member of the SNP's National Executive Committee.She read out a statement about their resignations at a National Executive Committee held on Zoom on March the 20th, 2021.The statement warned of obvious procrastination by Peter Murrell and a failure to provide basic information.The statement said the three had been given contradictory information and had no way of providing scrutiny and governance of party finances.

this statement out.Because if I don't, I have no confidence that the whole of the NEC, who have got the right to hear this, because they're the governing body, they're the only ones that can action this.So I waited, I folded a bit of paper to show them that it was small because I thought they're going to say we don't have time for this.So Douglas had done his treasurer update and I'd put my hand up early because I thought if I wait to the end they'll go you've got a question.So I had my hand up because it was a zoom call like raise hand and I got called to speak and I just head down and just read as clearly you know I did feel as if I was shaking but I was trying to you know make sure it was clearly said and I discharged it.duty to myself and to St Anthony and to Frank to make sure everybody had the information they needed to do.

Rather than recognise something was wrong, the response from National Executive Committee members, including Nicola Sturgeon, was to attack Alison.

So I read the statement out and there was a bit of silence and then there was a councillor in the Highlands who I think, I believe, I don't know, worked for Ian Blackford at that time, again positional authority, was the leader of the Westminster group.He just had a verbal attack.It made me feel like I was a daft wee lassie that didn't know who I was doing.

Who was his counsellor?What's his name?

Ian Coburn.I'd never heard his voice before because there was loads of people in the NEC that never said anything the whole time I was there.I didn't know him, he didn't know me, and yet I read that statement and he absolutely you know attacked me like I didn't know what I was doing like as if I was an idiot and it just made me feel you know it was so bad I physically put my head down I remember thinking and I've been in some serious meetings you know like I'm not like a shy retiring individual but this was like being bullied in the playground it felt as if you were being you know kicked and I put my head down and then I saw the chat thing scrolling up.

The pile -on On the Zoom text chat came from various people on the Executive Committee, including Nicola Sturgeon.They even mocked Alison by suggesting a hashtag, hashtag I'm with Ian.Graham Campbell, an SNP councillor in Glasgow, said Alison should not have been able to read out the statement.

Like, these bad people have gone, we'll be up for it.And I was like, are you people actually insane?Yes.You know, we've just told you there's a red flag here.And your response is, where do I sign?

And then came Nicola Sturgeon's attack.

I've been on this body when the party has frankly been teetering on the edge of bankruptcy.The party's never been in a stronger financial position than it is right now.And that's a reflection of our strength and our membership.So just a bit of context for us all to remember.Secondly, I'm not going to get into the details.That's for Douglas.

That's what he's elected to do.And of course, this body is the governing body of the party.But, you know, just be very careful, all of us, about suggestions that there are problems with the party's finances, because we depend on donors to donate.There are no reasons for people to be concerned about the party's finances and all of us need to be careful about not suggesting that there is.And lastly, we've got to be careful as an NEC.We don't reap what we sow.

If we have leaks from this body, as I said earlier on, it limits the ability for open, free and frank discussion.This body is the governing body of the party with the responsibility to pass a budget.And if we, so in all the years I've been on it, there has been good quality, detailed financial information given by national treasurers, and that's how it should be.But if there are leaks, as with everything else, that gets more difficult to do.So everybody has to be very clear about that.And if I was a betting person, and just to be clear, Alison, this is not directed at you.

in any way, shape or form.But if I was a betting person, I would bet we'll see the statement that's just been read out in public this afternoon.So I hope I'm wrong about that.And it might do a great benefit for the confidence we all have in the discussions we can have in this NEC if I am proved wrong about that.

And then Nicola came in very clearly to shut it down.So she came in and read that statement.I mean, I don't think she probably meant to say my name, but she did, which led to a lot of other abuse later on when that video came out from people.But she was talking to me.She was basically saying, you know, basically you shouldn't have been allowed to read that out.The party's never been in better financial health.

So she was using her positional authority to demean what I'd said.It was like, I'm the First Minister of Scotland, I'm the leader of the party.You've just read that out, but I know better.My first thought was, how do you know?I'm in the Finance and Audit Committee, and you're not.How do you know?

And that's what was in my head.What have you seen to give you comfort that we haven't been able to get to give us comfort?And that was the bit that really shocked me that she had such confidence to say that.And it just made, I mean, nobody backed me up in that meeting.It was very lonely because it wasn't until the police asked me about it and said, did anybody ask you a question?Did anybody come in to say, you know, stop treating her like that?

You know, and nobody did.And I said to them, you know, they said, why do you think I was?I said, well, it was very toxic environment.It was a bit like a head in a stick.I was a head on the stick.And they said to me, If that happened to someone else and you'd been there, would you have spoken up?

And I said, yeah, I would have.Because I had spoken up at previous NEC meetings when other people have been attacked.Because it's not the way you do meetings.It's not the way you conduct yourself.It's not constructive.And it's bullying at the end of the day.

Bullied by Nicola Sturgeon.Bullied by them all.I mean, all the ones that were coming in, it was just like, I mean, that was the way it was.Heather Anderson said, hashtag I'm with Iain.This is a grown woman who's now an MSP, who was a counsellor.What mentality leads you to think that that's appropriate?

Looking back, why do you think Nicola Sturgeon was so keen to shut down questions on S &P finances, not just at this meeting, but more generally?

I mean, if she had genuine confidence at the finances of the FAC, sorry, of the S &P even, too many acronyms, she would have said, you know what, let's get a forensic accountant in.That's what we thought they would do.Because as I said at the beginning, our initial thought was, we know there's absolutely a perception there's a problem.That doesn't necessarily, if you do problem solving, it doesn't necessarily follow there is a problem, but a perception is a problem in itself.So to resolve that, you do everything, belt and braces, to check everything's fine.That would have been the obvious thing to do, to say, I can stand behind this, here it is.

They kept going on press, and this was fascinating to watch for me.Nicola went on, John Spinney went on, Michael Russell went on media.They all said the party's never been in better financial shape.And I thought, how do you know?What are you seeing that we're not seeing here?And the other thing on that is they were saying, you know, the party's independent, the accounts are independently audited.

And that was a line, you know, and from working like in comms and stuff, that's a line.They're saying that they're emphasising independently.Their auditor was their accountant.And it's not wrong, but it's kind of misleading to say as if you're thinking there's a third party organisation beyond your treasurer, your accountant and your auditor.And they kept stressing this, we're independent lodging.I thought, who's feeding you these lines?

Because that's misleading.

Nikola Sturgeon has claimed she is being blamed for the actions of her husband, but this doesn't wash with the whistleblowers.They are furious about the way the former First Minister shut down questions and are unsure why she did so.

There's been a great emphasis on being a wife and not being responsible for your husband's sins and all the rest of it.Forget it.This was the head of the leader of the party in Scotland and it was the First Minister of Scotland and her job was to be in charge of the NEC.You are a wife and you are a leader of a party and you are a leader of the country.So you have a fiduciary duty to your job as being in charge of an NEC who are all jointly and severally liable for any financial appropriation or anything of that nature.So you're leading that team and therefore you've got a responsibility as a leader to know what's going on in your own organisation.

So at the point at which the statement went out, I can't believe that the leader put herself in a position where she steamrolled and encouraged the pile -on that Alison got and chose to do nothing, where a more natural and a more expected professional activity would have been for her to have immediately said to Kirsten Oswald, right, we need to find out what's behind this.We need to investigate.Kirsten, could you get a couple of people, get a sub -team together, speak to these people and find out what this is all about.Then once you got home, get them in the Conservatory and ask them, is there something you want to tell me?

Alison and Cynthia said they were angry that the minutes of the meeting only included a brief mention of their resignations, but not details about why, let alone their full statement.They say these details would have been of use to the party's official auditors.They blame Kirsten Oswalt, the party's business convener.who is now an MSP and a junior justice minister in the Scottish government.

And the reason that we were so careful about having a joint statement that would be read out was to have it minuted.So, first question, why did Kirsten Oswald fail to minute and include the statement in the minutes?Because then that would have been seen by the external editors and that would have raised a red flag.

Nicola Sturgeon has said she wasn't aware of her husband's alleged criminality until 2023 after he was arrested.But the whistleblowers said his embezzlement would have been easily found if SNP bosses, including Sturgeon, had listened to them and looked.

We are independent volunteers, we're not Colombo.All you had to do is get a forensic accountant and that's what we would have said.

Douglas Chapman went on to quit as party treasurer in May 2021.He too said he could not do his job due to a lack of financial information.Shortly after, Colin Beattie took the role back on again.

and said that they were all great and all the rest of it.And yet two months later.her husband put in a loan of 107 ,000.For cash flow.For cash flow.So if this was a party awash with money, and also within the constitution, there was allowance for any large amounts to be noticed.

So you had a camper van and 107 ,000 going in and out, and who was looking at that?But she had, for the period when Douglas resigned through to the period BC came back in, for albeit a short time, she had contingent liability for the accounts as Treasury.

At what point did you think some sort of criminality was going on?

We had no evidence of criminality and we said that to the police.Had we seen any evidence of criminality, we would have gone to the police.

But conversely, we saw no evidence that there wasn't criminality.

Did you have discussions in the background when you sort of said, there's something wiffy going on here?

The money didn't add up.The money literally and metaphorically didn't add up at all.trust in any of the figures.You cannot sign off on a budget that you've got zero faith in because somebody's telling you everything's fine and then they ignore you and pass it anyway.So we, our risk you know, receptors, let's just say, were absolutely golden red, that there was something seriously wrong.And it was absurd how nobody else was noticing it, or nobody else was talking about it.

Or when the minute somebody spoke, everybody shut up.And the positional authority, I've seen this happen in other organizations, but the positional authority can, you know, can be very dangerous when it becomes utter deference.Like, somebody speaks, everybody's quiet.That's not, I mean, for me, It's like saying that you're the victim of a crime and you didn't know about embezzlement.It's a bit like saying I've just noticed my good watch is missing but I do leave all my doors open.Do you know what I mean?

It's absurd.It's like you had the responsibility, the failure in governance has a responsibility that nobody is taking any accountability or any level of humility that this was members money.This was people who put their last fiver for their pension into something that they believed and they had a duty to these people and that really really upset me that they could be so flippant in everything they were doing.

I think subsequent to this, the way it's panned out, my real concern and sadness, because I believe firmly in independence for Scotland.We should be self -determining.But we have to be there with a competent government who represent us and all our values.You don't get there in a wing in a prayer and bullying.And I think that the thing that really upset me was the fact that the behaviours that we saw and witnessed when we were there are being repeated now despite all the assurances from John Swinney about governance and about I've looked at it and it's all fixed now.

In 2021 John Swinney was one of those leading SNP figures who defended the state of the party's finances.In one interview in summer of 2021 he talked about the functions of good governance and statute are being followed entirely.within the SNP.How would you describe that?

What did he base that on?I'd like to know.What evidence did he see to base that on?It's very easy to make calm statements, but if you actually care about the genuine genuine governance of your party, you have to base that on evidence.It's like building a house on sand.You need to know you've got firm foundations.

So do you think there was a culture in the SNP enabled by the likes of John Sweeney and Nicola Sturgeon that allowed corruption and indeed criminality to thrive?

Well, there's definitely culture, but I can only assume who was driving that, because cultural comes from the shop.So there was absolutely, and this is another issue when they keep talking about governance reviews, which they seem to do all the time.If they knew what good governance was, they wouldn't have to keep reviewing it, because governance is cultural.They seem to think it's operational.And that just assounded me for people in that position that they didn't understand that.But the enablement of that, the positional authority, as I've said before, is what basically makes people into almost like a feudal system of that's the people above me. I have to be deferential to that.

And I think when you work in business, when you've been in serious decision -making roles, you can't do that.It's like critical friends.In the SNP, you're a critic or you're a friend.To be a friend, you have to nod in the right direction and doesn't matter if you get three nodding dogs or 23 nodding dogs, they're not going to be effectual unless they can actually, you know, free and favour, you know, without fear or favour ask questions.

I think the important thing is that they were enablers and that within that environment, I would, I saw a bar chart and I haven't been able to find it again on social media, showing a plot of the spend pattern.And it seemed to go up after after we left.So what happened was that's a big test that for once somebody stood up, you know, the three of us stood up and instead of going, we do, hey, you know, red light here, we need to do something about this, they chose not to do anything about it and to reduce us and really just protect any potential for risk and criminality.So they enabled, they actually, by their lack of governance, the lack of curiosity,and the lack of structure and systems, and the lack of ability to be self -critical, have allowed this to happen.They've given him the freedom and the positional authority to feel emboldened enough to do what he did.

So Nicholas Staduk.John Sweeney enabled criminality and corruption in the SNP.

They made a conscious choice, I would say, to manage the incident rather than resolve the problem.Yeah.And that was the decision.

They failed in their duty as leaders to undertake, I mean, certainly that period she was treasurer.She was a signatory on those accounts.Did she say that she's the detail person that everybody talks about?So did she never look at the accounts?Did she just sign them?

That was a whole contradictory stance.On the one hand, this was a very senior stateswoman, global positions, et cetera.On the other hand, I mean, I don't actually care about the fact, apart from that's created a lot of positional authority, that they were married.It was the fact that she was the party leader.She failed in her duty as party leader.And there's zero accountability, and there's zero humility.

And I don't think that actually adds up.to the persona that is being presented about the victimhood in this.The victims in this were people who were powerless to do anything about it.They had the power to do something about it, and they chose not to.And that, for me, is critical.

I think that one is critical.People that we've worked beside, we've trampled streets together, we've had all there is.People who couldn't afford it.And even now, they've plea bargained out £59 ,000 worth of stuff that they've got that was arguably from ordinary people.And I get really annoyed at the victimhood as well.I'm a victim, I'm a victim.

Both of them are culpable.But they were prepared to stand up and say whatever authoritatively to the public.

Both whistleblowers say an independent inquiry is now needed and they would be willing to give evidence.And they say the First Minister and SNP leader John Swinney has not learned his lessons.This month, Sweeney suggested the ring -fence money raised for an independence referendum in 2017 had actually been spent on general SNP expenses.But he argued this was legitimate, echoing a line from the party hierarchy when Peter Morrell and Nicola Sturgeon were in charge.

What I'm saying is that the SNP is a party of independence that uses its resources to support the arguments for independence.

You're saying the same things in 2026 that you said in 2021.Nothing's changed.Your attitude is, and the attitude of some of the SNP people in the chamber when they're discussing this, is the same attitude that caused this problem.

What would you say to people in the SNP at the top who may say you both ended up going to Alex Salmond's Alba party.What would you say to people who say this is politically motivated?

What made me leave the SNP was my husband came in after one of these meetings and said, how much are we paying a month in subscriptions for you to work practically full time for nothing for these people and get treated like that?He said, you're normalising bullying in our house in front of our children, and that's not acceptable.And it was like a cold water getting through, because we were keep on trying to fix things.And I thought, do you know what?If they're not willing to act, this is not worth it.

I had no knowledge of ALBA at the time I was in the SNP that I resigned.It wasn't around.I was subsequently contacted.And my reason for going there was purely on the political side because of Alex Salmond.

The two women say the SNP still has a cultural problem with sweeping issuesunder the carpet.They raise the case of Jordan Linden, an SNP rising star who party bosses were accused of shielding.Ultimately, Lyndon was sentenced to 18 months in prison in May for sexually assaulting five young men and boys.

This is beyond finances.The governance thing was part of the same problem with the Jordan -Lyndon thing.It was the same problem with the complaints process.It's all about a culture, not an operational process.It's a culture.And until you can recognise the problem, you have no chance of resolving it.

And could this happen again?Of course it could, because it's not changed anything.Nothing's changed.

Alison and Cynthia have not spoken about their experience until now, but over the years have been badmouthed as being part of an awkward squad in the SNP.The claim is that they were seeking to disrupt the leadership under Nicola Sturgeon.

And if we wanted to make this political, we could have done it at any point.There was an election, played politics, put it in the front page of a newspaper.We didn't because it was not the right thing to do, the right thing to do.and I'm not being funny but somebody in Scottish politics has got to have some level of integrity because the public are getting absolutely scunnered with not being able to trust anything that people say.That is not good for democracy.

Nicola Sturgeon undoubtedly benefited from her husband's crimes with the embezzlement fueling the couple's luxury lifestyle.She's emphatically denied any knowledge of her husband's crimes.Do the whistleblowers believe her?

What I can definitely speak to is she had every opportunity to find out and chose not to.In 2021, everything we said to the police, we would have said to the NEC had they given us the opportunity.They chose not to do that.So to say she didn't know anything about it, I can't speak to that.But I can speak to the fact that they made a conscious decision not to find out if there was a problem.

I think by her negligence, beingto be objective about it, by her negligence and failure to carry out her duties professionally and fully and properly.She had contingent liability from the time she was treasurer.She was signing off the accounts.She, as Alison said, she made conscious decisions to batten everything down.What can you take out of that?

If she's as smart as we all thought she was, she would have had some degree of separation between herself and her husband, being in that position.So she would have made absolutely sure that nobody could have claimed nepotism, favouritism or criticism.And she would have made absolutely sure that her own doorstep was squeaky clean.I would have thought.I would have.

Well, from a personal risk point of view, particularly in her position, to choose not to do that.But beyond that, I think there is no humility or accountability to the failure in leadership to the members and the way that the organisation was run.

I think behaviourally, it's very strange.I find her whole behaviour very, very odd.At the end of the day, she was either extremely negligent and derelict in her job as leader, or there's more to that.

The cash flow loan, when we heard about that, I mean, if she wasn't going to listen to me, and even if you believe that she believed, which she didn't.I mean, I was genuinely not a bad actor, and I had air a number of times.But, you know, Casual Alone clearly showed that.I said had weight because they had a cash flow problem.You can't be both in the healthiest financial position and have a cash flow problem.So that, there's so many things through 2021 that should have said, actually, hang on, let's get people in a room and let's see what's going on here.

Let's get a forensic accountant in.That would be the way to disprove that there was a problem.and they chose not to do that.So everything we did that the police ended up doing, the SNP could have done in 2021.That was in their gift and they chose not to.Alison, Cynthia, thank you very much.