‘Burnham Will DESTROY Britain Like Starmer’ | ‘They HATE Brexit’ | Nigel Farage

It is today, and I do want to pass this message on to my favourite, favourite audience members, of course, or, let's face it, almost to a man and a woman, Brexiteers.Ten years today, we voted for Brexit, biggest democratic vote for anything in the history of our country.We voted to leave the EU.And the man who was, of course, instrumental in that is Nigel Farage.Let's go straight to him.Very good morning to you.

Good morning.

Thank you very much.To be fair, I think the really happy day was tomorrow, wasn't it?Because that was when we, well, you stayed up all night, some of us got a couple of hours, Kip, woke up to the fabulous news.I mean, a lot of people are saying, you know, it hasn't worked, we didn't get proper Brexit, what was the point?What would you say to that?

Yeah, what a morning it was, about four o 'clock as the sun was just coming up over the Thames.I was in a nightclub, actually.

Of course you were.

Of course I was.Yeah, dare to dream.that the dawn is breaking on an independent United Kingdom.Yet, look, it was the right thing to do.Of that I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever.But what has happened since has been, well, shameful, frankly.

Many in Parliament, including the Speaker John Bercow, refused to accept the result, thought we were all morons to have voted for it.They never respected it.They did their best to overturn it, to stop it, to make us vote again.And then when finally, in 2019, You know, the Brexit party in the European elections got rid of Mrs May.In comes Boris.I thought, hooray, hooray.

We're actually now going to get what we voted for, not just leaving the European Union, but using those powers to cut immigration numbers, to control our borders, and of course, to get rid of excessive regulation for business.And what happened?We got the Boris wave.The Boris wave.3 .8 million people let into the country, only 17 % of them on work permits.It's almost unbelievable.

think about the scale of what they did.And then on the regulations, everybody from individual computer programmers to fishermen thought, well, this is great.The rules will get easier.And I have to say, Kemi Badnok did play a role in this.She could have got rid of thousands of EU laws as a minister, didn't.The will wasn't there, not just from her, but from the government.

And so we finished up in a place where, yes, of course, In foreign policy terms, we stand taller on the world stage.Yes, of course, if you want to roll out a vaccine, we can do it more quickly than being in the EU.All of those things, our trade, our growth, actually, is higher than France and Germany and Italy and all those things.But we expected to get immigration numbers down.They went through the roof.And that is not a failure of Brexit.

That is a failure.In fact, I go a bit further than that, a betrayal by the political class of what they were elected to do and instructed to do in that referendum.

After Brexit, since 2020, every government that says we're going to cut immigration, and there are a dozen.I know Keir Starmer's claiming he has, but let's face it, that was as a result of Rishi Sunak's policies, and we're still nowhere near the tens of thousands net migration we were originally promised.But every time they fail, we get to boot them out, as happened in 2024.Yes.In which case, it has worked, because they are democratically accountable.They can't just blame it on the EU.

No, they can't.You're right.I mean, before, they'd say ministers would shrug their shoulders.I went to Brussels, did my best, but sorry, we got outvoted.No, the finger is very firmly pointed now at government, at ministers.But interestingly, Julia, you may remember in the years running up to the referendum, I said my intention was to cause an earthquake in Britain.

politics.Well, the earthquake happened 10 years ago today.What happened on May the 7th in the local elections when reforms smashed the Labour Party in the north of England, which led to Burnham putting himself up?We're still going through the aftershocks.The aftershocks of that referendum are two traditional parties have not adjusted to.

Well, certainly the other parties have not adjusted to it.I mean, we had Keir Starmer.You talked about the three years people trying to overturn it.Keir Starmer was instrumental in that, a shadow Brexit secretary, not a Democrat.Liberal Democrats, of course.Not Tories, frankly, working against the democratic mandate of the people.

Andy Burnham, about to get a coronation, we believe, as the next prime minister of this country.He, like Keir Starmer, an avid remainer, an avid rejoiner.He tried to talk it down during the Makerfield by -election and leave voting area.But, of course, we know what he said only a matter of a few months ago, that he thought that we should rejoin the single market, which, of course, means, by definition, part of the single market is you would have free movement, not just of goods and services, but also of people.Are you worried that Brexit is going to be undone by the back door?

Constitutionally, no.We're not going to rejoin it, but we will align ever more closely with it, which of course takes away any competitive advantage that we may choose to have.But I think there's a broader point, whether it's to do with defence, whether it's to do with our relationship with Europe, whether it's to do with our relationship with NATO, America, the economy, the self -employed, family farms, all these things.I haven't got a clue what Andy Burnham stands for.He wasn't elected on the Labour manifesto of 2024.If there is a coronation, we will have a Prime Minister with no mandate whatsoever.

And I think the British public are tired of the game of musical chairs that, frankly, has been going on in Downing Street for the best part of the last decade.I mean, we look like the Italians back in the 1980s.It's almost unbelievable.And that's why I believe there has to be a general election.Now, when we vote, I know we vote for our local MP, but effectively, We vote for or against a man or woman to be Prime Minister.To keep chopping and changing like this is unacceptable in normal circumstances, but with somebody about whom we know nothing as to where his policies will lie, there must be a general election.

election.Would you prefer, if there was one, that you were fighting Keir Starmer rather than Andy Burnham?Who, let's face it, I completely accept we don't know what his policies are.I don't think he knows what his policies are.There's no evidence that he does either.But at the end of the day, like a former Prime Minister who got elected with a big bounce with your help in 2019, a popular Metro Mayor with charisma, he might be harder to beat, mightn't he?

There is a sort of double irony here, that the run -up to our success on May the 7th was Vote Reform, get Starmer out.But the truth is, actually, for us, it would be far better as a party if he stayed.And the other part of this is, of course, Makefield became Vote Burnham, get Starmer out.So we've been slightly hoist with our own baton.On the face of it, he will be more attractive to a wider number of people than Starmer is now.But you're looking at Starmer now.

Two years ago, he wasn't disliked by the public.He was sort of thought to be one.He seems perfectly pleasant, nice chap.So you don't know.Metro mayors are popular.Boris, as you say yourself, was popular.

Burnham is popular as a metro mayor.You know, having to make policy decisions can change that very, very quickly.And I think if, as I suspect, it's going to be a government that goes on increasing taxes, that doesn't worry about the scale of the national debt and how the world and the markets are viewing that, isn't prepared to get tough on the massive explosion of welfare dependency, then look, you know, we will fight Labour.on that turf.

be to invest sufficiently in our defence?

So Keir Starmer could, as a parting shot, do something very valuable in the national interest.He could put a number on it that is ambitious.He could put a number on it that necessitates welfare cuts, etc.If he does that and ties Burnham's hands, he will have done the country a favour as he leaves Number 10.

What other priorities should there be?for a Burnham government.I mean, bearing in mind you're not in government now, so surely you'd like the country to be run well.

borders Burnham.And I don't see him stopping the boats.I don't see him cutting immigration numbers.I don't see him getting tough on law and order.I just don't see that.And I feel that the Labour backbenches are now shifting so far away, so far to the left, so far away on economic reality and much else, that I doubt, even if he tried, he'd be able to control them.

So I think truth is, not much will change.

There's a lot of talk about how when Burnham, if it is Burnham, as is expected, becomes our Prime Minister, it could be as early as the 17th of July, probably rather sooner than he would like it to happen.It needs a few months to get his ducks in order.We would have seven Prime Ministers in 10 years.A lot of people are saying Britain is now ungovernable.And you mentioned we're turning into Italy, except one of ours isn't.Alternately, Silvio Berlusconi.

Are we ungovernable, or is it that we're Is it that politicians are now being held to account more?

Britain is broken.Britain is broken.What do you mean by that?Nothing works.Nothing works anymore the way we've always understood it to.Nothing works, whether it's waiting times in hospital, whatever it is, nothing actually works.

We get poorer and poorer.Quarter of a million of our brightest and best emigrated last year.Britain is broken.Our politics is a symptom of just how broken the country is.And that's why I believe that we need radical political change.People are prepared to think outside the box.

People are prepared to say and do things that will be attacked by the mob on social media, but won't worry about it.And if you wanted to have a look at an example of a prime minister who was in many ways the epitome of the professional career political class, it is Andy Burnham.

You say you've had a political change.Are you actually at reform ready for an election?There's a lot of criticism over your choice of Rob Kenyon, a local plumber at the Makefield by -election.You know, that seemed like an ideal choice.He'd stood for the seat before, but actually, you know, the vetting once again failed.I know you say, you know, and a lot of us would say, oh, who cares what someone wrote about Carol Vorderman's bottom a few years back.

But it turns out a lot of female voters, a lot of women, do care about those things.Lots of talk about how you have a woman problem.But are you actually ready for an election?Are you ready, if Andy Burnham did call a snap election if he became Prime Minister, are you ready to actually go for an election if you win it to hit the ground running?

Well, three quick points.Number one, no candidate would have beaten Andy Burnham in that election.It was vote Burnham, popular local mayor of Greater Manchester, get Starmer out.And yes, Kenyan said some things, the sort of things that get said in pubs by blokes that have had a few pints.I'm not condoning it in any way, but that is just the fact of where it is.Second point, do we have a woman problem?

Well, we've got very prominent women in our party.We've got Dame Andrea Jenkins heading up Lincolnshire as the mayor there, Leila Cunningham lining up to take on Sadiq Khan in London, et cetera.The third question to answer is, are we ready for a general election?Are we ready to have one tomorrow?Well, no one is.No one is.

But have we been making plans in case of this contingency ever since May the 7th?We have, and we've got a couple of them.people that were going through the process right now.We will be ready whenever it is.

Can we beg not because front page of the Mail on Sunday this weekend ruling out the possibility of any electoral pact packed with reform.Can you also rule it out categorically?

Well as I said a moment ago It was Kemi Badenoch that could have got rid of 4 ,000 EU laws as minister.

You know perfectly well ministers don't have the power.Everything's up to prime ministers.

You know that.But you know what?You know what?It's difficult to do a deal with a party that gave us net zero and wrote it into law.It's difficult to do a deal with a party that promised to do one thing and gave us the Boris wave.So for me, it's about trust.

Very, very important.difficult to trust them.

That sounds to me like something of a watering down, shall we say, a smoothing down.A couple of years ago you were talking about wanting to destroy the Conservative Party.

I've never once in my life said that.Not once in my life did I use that word.I said they might destroy themselves.Look, I'm an old city trader, right?I shake hands with people because my word is my bond and I do it on trust.I couldn't really be clearer.

I don't trust them.

OK.Isn't the case that actually an electoral pact before any election would do you both damage?You'd both want to.We'll see what happens when the next election is.Maybe it's in two years' time.Maybe it's sooner.

And whoever is riding high in the polls.And we know we've seen a lot of tactical voting in recent years.There may be left -wing tactical voting against you guys.Maybe people who would vote Reformer or Tories voting for the other party because they think they're a better bet in their constituency.But a pact could actually damage both parties before.after an election if it were possible to form a coalition government.

Realistically, you aren't going to say no to a chance to get into government, even in coalition.are you?

You know, trying to predict the future and what might happen, you can speculate on that all you like.

But we're talking about what you'd be willing to do.

All I know, well, I said what I'm willing to do.I'm willing to lead reform, which is currently between 9 and 10 points ahead of everybody else in the polls.All we need to do is get another 3 % or 4%, and we'll have a majority government.with a very, very clear, firm set of commitments to bring about radical change.

Have you spoken to Kemi Bade not personally about any possibility of any deal?There's been no conversation.Right, now, you're going to get across with me, but I'm going to ask you about this.This £5 million that you took as a gift from the crypto millionaire Christopher Harbourn, who lives in Thailand, you've described it variously as something that would pay for your security for years because of the huge physical threats that you do face, and I'm very aware of that.You've also talked about it being a reward for all your work on Brexit.Harporn has given many millions more to the party, which has been declared.

You did not declare this money because you said it was a private gift.You weren't in Parliament.You're now being investigated by the Privileges Committee.This is being thrown around on social media.It has been hugely damaging to you.Do you regret not declaring that money?

No.

Why not?

Because it's a purely private matter.It had nothing to do with politics whatsoever.I don't believe the rules in any way suggested that I should, so I didn't.And it wasn't a donation.It was a gift.Unconditional gift, all right?

Now, as for his motives, for doing that?Well, I think he thought that maybe having given up a quarter of a century of my life, given up a good career in the City of London, faced all the abuse, perhaps he thought I deserved it.but that's irrelevant.It was an unconditional gift.So whether, and I made it very clear that I will need to have protection till the day I die, whenever that is, and none of us of course quite know the answer to that, and that will be its primary purpose.But frankly, You know, I can do with the money as I wish.

It is with the Standards Commissioner.I believe, having looked very carefully with lawyers at the rule book, that I'm in the right.

Most people think of a gift as, I don't know, a bottle of champagne, a box of chocolates.Not five million quid.Do you understand why most of us find it absolutely impossible to believe that someone who lives on the other side of the world, no matter how much he loves Brexit, and I don't think anyone loves it more than you and me, that they would go, you know what, Nigel, love you, here's five million quid, no strings attached.Do you understand why that frankly is not believable?

I think you'll find you voted in Hampshire, so I think you'll find that's where home actually.But whatever.Yeah, they may well do.And people inherit vast sums of money and all sorts of things happen in life.

He's not your dad.You didn't inherit it.

People inherit money.

He's a crypto billionaire living on the other side of the planet and he gave you...But again, you talked about, you said, this is an unconditional gift.Is it a gift, a reward, or is it for your security?

unconditional gift.I can spend it on Ferraris if I wish to, all right?

Are you spending it on Ferraris or are you spending it on your security?

None of your business.

The thing is, when politicians get freebies, even if it's before they're politician, the rules are very clear that if it's before a year, up to a year before you become elected as an MP, and I do accept that at the time that you were given this gift you were not an MP and you were not planning to return at that time.I've had conversations with people in reform around thattime.Nevertheless, the rules state that you should declare that money.But did you think that Keir Starmer should have declared his free suits from Lord Alley?

Well, they were political.

How is this suit political and five million pounds?More money than most people would ever think of or ever earn or enjoy in their lives.How can that not be political?

By the way, this is a hugely successful British business.

Good for him.

All right, which is a good thing.

Yes, good for him.

Yeah.Julia, it's a private thing.It wasn't a political donation.If you read the rules carefully, I've done absolutely nothing wrong.

Then why is there a Standards and Privileges Committee investigation into it?Why has this done so much damage?

Because they've...It has to you.And it has the London media class, but it didn't really...

No, I don't think that's fair.When I first heard...No, I don't think that's...I don't think I am typical of that class, and I understand your security needs.I think you know now that it was a mistake not to declare that money.

No, I don't.And I spoke to hundreds of people in Bakerfield, walking up and down the streets over four days of campaigning, and only one person raised it as an issue.Only one person raised it as an issue.

Are you cooperating fully with the committee?

Of course, but there isn't much to say.

I mean, wouldn't it be easier?Declare it, show the receipts for what you've spent it on for security.Round -the -clock security costs an absolute fortune, hundreds of thousands of pounds.Job done.

This is an unconditional gift, all right?And I was reported, as the local elections came up, that the chairman of the Conservative Party, they were terrified of what we might.And of course, we did wipe out the Conservatives in Essex and places like that.They were terrified of it.They've tried to make it political.I don't believe it is. I believe it's purely personal.

Let's end on a happier note for both of us.As I said, today marks the Brexit referendum 10th anniversary.Just one final note.I asked you earlier whether you thought the people in government at the moment were actually going to try and take us back into the EU by hook or by crook, by the back door.Do you think if they did, if any of the parties did actually win next election, it wasn't you, but another party on the left, and they were promising a referendum on rejoining the EU, do you think the British people would vote to rejoin?

No, absolutely not.Absolutely not.To vote to join, to go back to giving £20 billion a year as a contribution, to commit to joining the Euro, not a chance.

Nigel Farage, it's a happy 10th anniversary for us.It's going to be a very interesting few weeks in British politics, perhaps an interesting few years as well.Leader of FormUK, Nigel Farage MP, thank you very much indeed for joining us.