Caleb Hearon Eats His Last Meal

Hi, I'm Caleb Heron and this is my last meal.

Every person has exactly two things in common. We all gotta eat and we're all gonna die. Today's guest is a writer, actor, podcaster, and stand-up comedian whose debut special Model Comedian comes out on HBO Max September 19th. In college, he often frequented the Bearclaw Center for Learning and Writing at the Meyer Library in Missouri State University. Caleb Heron, welcome to the show. Hey, Josh. In college, she often frequented the Bearclaw Center for Learning and Writing at the Meyer Library

in Missouri State University. Caleb Heron, welcome to the show.

Hey Josh, thanks for having me.

Of course, I know education is very important to you. Tell me how you found out about the value of the Writing Center.

Okay, Josh, so when I got dropped off at college, I'm assuming you know this, when I got dropped off at college, my mom dropped me off, okay, we moved my stuff into my dorm. Outside of the dorm, I came out to her as bisexual, and I was like, I'm bisexual, and she was like crying. She's like, am I gonna have grandkids?

I was like, it's really not about you at the moment. And then I sent her away, and then I got on Grindr, which I had already, but I got on Grindr, went to the dorm next to mine, hooked up with a guy who was like a sophomore there, and after we hooked up, he was brushing his teeth, because there was a sink in his room, I know some of them had sinks in their room,

shout out Missouri State, he was brushing his teeth and he was like, you really gotta use the Writing Center, it's an incredible resource, he was like an RA, That's great. That's building community and building life skills. I love that. He was doing his job. Yeah, we hooked up and then I went to the writing center a lot because I was a sociopolitical communication major. I just wrote a lot of papers so I had to use their help a lot. But yeah, that was the first thing I learned about college. Man, incredible. What a life to live.

Hey, shout out Missouri State. Go Bears. My, Chance, who works on my show is here. He went there too. But yeah, we we love Missouri State chance How long did it take for you to hook up with an RA? People one of those like military students who's there is like a 30 year old. Yeah. Yeah a non-traditional with the rolly backpack. Yeah Thank you for being here, by the way. Thanks for having me. I'm very excited Have you thought about your last meal before? Yes often I think about meals pretty much constantly I'm never not thinking about a meal I really am I'll be at a meal talking about my next meal with whoever I'm with

Sometimes I'll be eating food thinking man. I wish I was eating a meal right now. Yeah, absolutely It's like I can't obviously I can't stop and I love it. But yeah, I've thought about it quite often. Did anything that made your list today surprise you? Were there any deep cut pulls? You're like, oh, I didn't know I felt that way

about that dish.

I don't know if you have people express this to you often, but I didn't want to stress your staff out. So I tried to keep it very logistically easy. No, you were probably the first person to ever say that. a lot about you and where your values lie as a human. I was like, what are these people going to do if I say something complicated? So I'm picking places.

It's all stuff I love.

I love.

I have a reason I picked every one of these things. And I'll talk about it. But I was thinking, he's got some poor staff person driving around in a beat up Toyota Corolla, putting shit in their trunk.

I got to make it easy. The the worst thing is when people just say pizza from New York Yeah, and then and then we have to say like what kind of pizza where in New York? What are you talking about? So you were incredibly descriptive like I want to say that was a very empathetic move of you to do that How often do you think about death?

Okay Often but I've got way better about it. I used to be dude. I used to be better and worse? Yes, because I used to be obsessed. When I was really, really depressed, shout out to depression, shout out to being a sophomore in college.

Depression is sponsoring this video.

Yeah, yeah, the little skeleton finger that tickles the title card. I'm familiar. I know that death and depression are big sponsors of the show. Yeah, I thought about it so much that I was paralyzed by it

and very depressed and then maybe a hypochondriac For a while and then I kicked that I was like no more can't be doing this I kicked a hypochondria and biting my nails in the same year cold turkey on both. I said no more. No, I Used the patches on both. I said no more This is ruining you but I used to think about death in such a negative way, and then I started to think of it as a Okay, this might be helpful to somebody. This is how I kicked my fear of death. Okay. I'm being dead serious. I started to think of death as like a

You know when you hang out with people all day like you had like a whole day of hanging out with your family or something And then you drive home alone, and you like have the windows out. It's really nice you listen to music by yourself, and you're so glad that you just saw everybody you're like Oh, man, it was so nice to see everybody But I'm so glad to be doing my own thing now, and I'm assuming I'll see them again at some point But I guess kind of who knows I started to view death as that to be like oh I just left a great hang maybe I'll see them again Maybe I won't but now I'm just kind of doing my own thing for a second and a really beautiful sentiment I think it might have been Ram Dass who said death is like taking off an uncomfortable shoe at the end of the day God, I hope that'd be a fantastic. Yeah, it's probably not true. But kid isn't that beautiful?

He's probably full of shit, but God would not be nice I remember there was like maybe when I was in like fourth grade I came home from a soccer game and I was like sobbing I was so upset and my mom was like what what what is wrong? What happened and I was like, I'm just like when you die, do you get to play soccer and she was like It's been on my mind for a while

I'm ready. Let's do it

Caleb for the first course of your final meal on earth. We have the crispy buffalo wings with homemade ranch These were inspired by ye rustic in but they did refuse to give us their actual sauce, so this is all homemade. Did they really? Yeah! Can you talk to your boys? Small businesses, knock it off, we're trying to help you out. Agreed. And a can of Dr. Pepper. But then also we have one more surprise dish for you. Okay. Just as a gift from the kitchen. Okay. Oh my god! Yeah, let's cook it! You went on royal court with Brittany Broski and she served you store-bought cinnamon rolls and lukewarm chili.

Brittany!

Because she's a terrible host. She's just rude and churlish. And so we wanted to make you the Candy City Delight Fresh.

She said, sorry I'm not Mythical Kitchen, girl.

I'm sorry I'm not Mythical Kitchen, girl!

I mean, good God. Brittany, I love you so much. I'm so sorry they did this to you, girl, because this already looks way better.

Brittany, I'm so sorry you did that to Caleb.

Brittany!

Because now we have to come correct.

Oh my god, OK.

Dig in.

There's a secret ingredient in chili, and I'm wondering if you can identify it.

Yeah, if you have any knowledge of me at all, I think I know what it is. Oh, it's such a midway depending on what part of the Midwest you're from Mm-hmm You guys put some grape jelly in there. What's up, brother? Let's go. Let's go. Why do you put grape jelly in chili? It thickens it it makes it sweeter. Are you did you enjoy your bite? I did enjoy my bite. Oh So then what is there to ask? Hey fair point. No, it's um, it makes it thicker. It makes it thicker, it makes it sweeter, it's really nice. Grape jelly also for meatballs. Grape jelly for meatballs, grape jelly for chili.

What meats doesn't grape jelly go with?

I don't know that there is one. Maybe chicken.

Yeah, maybe.

Grape jelly chicken wing, I think that's the only meat I have put grape jelly on.

This is really good. Oh, Brittany, I'm so sorry, girl, you're getting cooked alive. Yeah. Oh, this is horrible. I refuse to apologize for this. This was under my own doing. Remind me of the people who cooked it. So I think Lily was the architect behind the chili.

Lily!

We have an incredible staff. They do all the work. I just get to sit here and yap and I'm incredibly grateful for them.

Can Lily hear me right now?

Yeah, she's on a headset.

Lily, this is so good, my love. You don't have to respond, don, yeah. Me not hearing a response and getting insecure. Don't worry, no need to respond, Lily. Um, I want to ask about the wings because I know your mom, Kelly, has said she could, quote,

solve Iraq and Iran by flying over with a case of Miller Lites and homemade chicken wings and ranch.

Yeah.

Do you think you got your activist streak from your mother? She's obviously very talented at it. This woman, this is the most special person on earth to me. I love her so much.

She's so wonderful. What happened was she came on my podcast for the second time and the night before we were at dinner, she was like, how you been? You know, I'm like, oh, I'm good. I'm just, I'm really, you know,

spinning out about the world as usual. And I was like going on a rant about when we bombed Iraq where those planes took off from Missouri, the Air Force Base by my hometown. And I was like, God, it just feels like these really expensive planes flying over

a bunch of people who don't have healthcare and can't afford their houses to go drop bombs on other poor people, it just feels insane. I'm telling her going out drinking with Jen this weekend. And then she comes on my show the next day and she's like, I think, you know, we were talking about Iraq and Iran last night.

Iran never entered the conversation. But then she, yeah, she goes, I'm gonna send chicken wings and Miller Lite and fix it. Incredible.

I think that's the sort of Midwest hospitality that you really.

A nation of people who really don't drink alcohol. Fantastic, yeah. I'm completely addicted to her. She's the coolest person who's ever lived. But yeah, I don't know if I got an activist streak from her, but I definitely, wanting to fix things with food, I got from her.

I respect that. Stig Novich, please, dig into the Wings.

I'm curious how we now though, that they did you guys like that. Oh, I am. Your own priorities.

You can. We never wanna pull rank, we never wanna ask for anything special.

I do. Well, I should've called them.

Okay, these are, yeah, incredible.

Do you have a chicken wing eating strategy?

It just depends. You're seeing one right now You gotta experiment. But this is the important thing. When you're eating a chicken wing, you gotta push it off a little bit. We do this one, sometimes you can do both. And then you dip, and then you just, yeah.

He's going side now, I go straight.

Right down the middle, right down the bite.

Was this Lily again?

Lily!

Combination of people.

This might have been Tony.

Only Lily you did an amazing job. Give her all the credit. She's the head producer. The chef gives all the credit Oh, no, this is incredible and the ranch is so good

Your mom used to work at bars growing up, right? She did while she was going to nursing school and raising two kids as a single mom my mom

Yes, raising two kids by herself working three jobs and going to nursing school. She's an absolute hero I am never had the balls to do comedy though and Never too late, mom. She would bring home chicken wings from the bar. So it was my favorite food because she would come home with them and then we'd get to, you know, eat together.

And also it was like mom's home. Mom's home, so it was a whole thing.

She smelled, one of the jobs she stale beer and fried food. And I was like, What is it? You come for the king, don't miss.

Do you remember the first time that you had that adult sit down with your mom and you were like, hey, as an adult now, through a retrospective lens, I understand how much you did and I'm sorry. Was there ever that conversation?

No.

No, yeah, I mean, there's been a bunch of them. I think like a lot in college. I don't know if that happens for a lot of people in college. I'm assuming that it does, but really in college, just like trying to pay my bills and get myself everywhere and also do my laundry and like feed myself and do all this stuff that she was helping with.

I was like, man, I can't believe she had us. You know what I mean? I distinctly remember one phone call in college. I'm sorry, this is crazy. I was like seriously what what were you thinking having kids cuz she was young show my brother when she was 17 She was a child and she would we are very very broke and I'm like, what the hell were you thinking? And she's like no, no, I just thought we'd figure it out and we kind of did and I was like

Oh girl, whatever. That's kind of like a laissez-faire attitude that I have nothing else to do. I've got like enough money in the bank Yeah, I'm gonna be with someone for quite a while, you know

What's your motivation behind wanting to have kids? So I think especially like I grew up in from a really poor background

Single parents both of them died pretty early and I know damn well that a that motivation but I'm wondering where yours comes from yeah well you were born in Maryland uh he knows the bio and then you and then you came out here what did you come here with your parents or was there a different I made I made one stop between Maryland and here what was a pit stop Kansas City Missouri for five years knock it off right up no you did videos and there's videos and photos of me in

a little Chiefs beanie you know are you serious yeah what part did you serious? I'm dead serious, yeah. What part did you live in? I think it was called Gladstone or Brookstone, something stone.

Brookside or Gladstone, those were probably

the names of Gladstone.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Oh, wow, in the Northland. Apparently. That's crazy.

I don't remember much about it.

It's kind of fucked up you didn't have me on this show sooner. Actually. Yeah. Cause we have all these things in common. But yeah, well let's just make this one good. I guess. I guess. I feel like the mood is soured, but you know, we can, we can get it back. I'm going to be negative the rest of the shoot. Yeah. Um, okay. So why do I want to have kids? Same deal. I think I can do a, I think I'll never do better than my mom did. He should not have had kids. This is making my nose run, so we'll be dealing with that for the rest of the shoot. Love y'all. Yeah, could do better than my dad.

Truly, it would be impossible to imagine being as bad of a parent as my dad. He just wasn't good at it. He refused to talk to me like a kid. In some ways, made me smarter, but was not helpful. I would like to do that. How many people I don't like are having like six and seven kids and like repopulating the earth and their kids might turn out to be really cool.

Plenty of people turn out to be different than their parents. But I'm like, I want to raise like cool little kids, you know, I want to raise like fun, nice human beings who like do cool stuff. I think it'd be good.

Do you think I shouldn't?

No, no. What did you get from that we think I said I shouldn't have kids who you think I shouldn't know I think you should have kids I think if you want kids I think that's the most important thing to having kids and like you said it seemed like your dad really didn't want to have kids and your mom was at least in different enough to not abort you and I think that's beautiful you know what I mean how long have you and your wife been together uh only married for like eight Uh, we're... Alright, grandma, fine, we're trying. I'm just, I'm in the driving range almost, you know, every night.

Well, two nights a week. One night a week. We get tired.

You're doing drive... You're at the golf drive...

You're driving golf balls?

That was a metaphor for us having sex. Oh, nice. It just didn't come through. Sorry man, I can't give up driving. You know what, I know, I went too many layers deep.

That's so funny.

I'm no Kelly Heron, I don't have the comedic timing.

I'll get her pregnant once I stop golfing so damn much.

That is something I'd say. No, we are like actively in the process of trying and we're both like very aligned on it.

But yeah, have you ever gotten close to finding that person have kids with? I don't know it's a complicated it's a complicated question I've recently found someone that I could imagine myself having kids with. Is it like a romantic person or like a surrogate? Yes it's a romantic person imagine it was a surrogate I'm like yeah I saw a woman the other day who just looked like she could do it. I don't know. I do have many surrogates in my life I mean all these lesbians you know. So many of them. I've got I could I could practically I could pick up the phone right now I think and get a lesbian to go down to the clinic, but

Who are the top three lesbians in your life right now that you think would surrogate?

It's tough because they're all career ladies, but also they all want to act and stuff, you know I think you then have to find the one whose career aren't going well. Yeah, correct. Okay, and this is my camera? Yeah. Okay. No, I don't know. There's so many lesbians that I'd like to have kids with.

Actually, I feel very, do you know those guys who have that sickness where they wanna have kids as an illness? Yeah, yeah. Where they have to, they're like, I want 100 kids. Yeah. Just from like sheer gut of narcissism? Like need to spread? No, no. Theirs is narcissism. Mine's not about spreading my seed or something sick

like that. But I do go, god, all these lesbians and I would have such beautiful children. You know? I think it'd be so fun to be like, oh, man, that's my kid with that one.

Who's this person?

Not asking you to name names with, what are you looking for? He has many wonderful qualities, but I think when I think about raising kids with someone or starting a family with someone in general, not even just kids, just like operating a household like day to day, patience is the thing that I'm like, yeah, when something goes wrong on vacation or when your kids are being really annoying

or just a lot of life situations call for someone to just be like, okay, that'll be fine. You know what I mean? That's the thing that I love most about my wife. I will say that like I married, what? Patience.

I think you said Asians. I was like, no, I'm asking too much.

You said, I love that about my wife. I go, Asian?

No, she's like, I feel like I married up like morally, like I married up in character in a way that is really aspirational for me. Are you debauchery? Am I debauchery? That's a weirder question than Asian

What's your wife's race and also are you debauchery?

I've been debauchery, lecherous, cantankerous, like a lot of us is But no, she is somebody who I think just has like a very direct beautiful moral compass that makes me want to be a better person. You know, and I think transmitting that to kids is like, when we both have kids, they're gonna be best friends, they're gonna play together.

That's beautiful what you said about your wife. I don't wanna graze over that. If you ever put that five iron down, you guys are gonna start a beautiful family.

Oh my God, one day.

If you just put your driver back in with the caddy, Caleb, for the second course of your final meal on Earth, we have the pork belly burnt ends. This has been shipped out from Slap's Barbecue in Kansas City. We have the pickles, the beans, the mac and cheese, the baked potato casserole, a thing I've never had before, a little bit of white bread, some extra sauce on the side. And then on the West Coast barbecue front, we have Mooves Craft Barbecue, Poblano Oaxaca sausage both of their barbecue sauces and some pickled chilies. Yeah. This means so much to me, that you picked this. Do you like this place?

I love this place.

It's the best barbecue in LA, in my opinion.

That means the world to me, especially coming from Kansas City, one of the great barbecue cities in the barbecue triangle.

I know, I love, well Kansas City barbecue's incredible, and shout out to Slaps, I'm so glad would send someone who's never had Kansas City barbecue, but it's where I would take someone if they were like, what barbecue would you have for lunch today for real? I wouldn't go to one of the crazy spots with a line down the street. This place often does have a line, but this is more to me like, when you know the landscape of barbecue in Kansas City, this is where you go to like,

just have a lunch. You know what I mean? I respect that so much, man. I can't wait to dig into this. It looks so goddamn good. Okay, I really, really hope you like it. They're so nice there too, I love them. I'm so mad that everyone else in here isn't eating this right now. Where's Lily?

Lily!

Lily, come here and bite.

Lily, would you come here please?

I'm right here.

Lily. Lily, at this point it's like, no, this is so... and y'all, ooh, so how did you, I want to know how you got this here. Can you just tell me that briefly? Yeah, so they

shipped it here, vacuum sealed, and it was our, it was whole, and then we cut it up, crisped it up in the oven, and then let it sit in the sauce, like, because the burnt end is sitting in that heat in the sauce for a long time. Yeah, yeah. This makes me proud to be an American. I want to thank

you for saying that. Because right now, I do feel politically right now, that's a scary thing to say. Yeah. And I want to thank you for saying that. No, I do, I do know what you mean though. There are, I never feel more like, like, bald eagle soaring in the background, country music rising, than when I'm at a barbecue restaurant in Missouri or Texas or North Carolina, and I'm sitting out there and everyone's just like smiling and eating too much food in the heat. Yeah. I like that.

This is also like a very unique part of American culture that doesn't exist roughly anywhere in the world.

Well, I get mad sometimes. It's funny, because you were talking earlier about Orange County and people having a very particular idea of Orange County, and they go, oh, Orange County is ignorant white people or whatever. They do it with Kansas City too,

and I'm like, Kansas City is such a profoundly influenced black city. Kansas City's like 20 to 30% black, depending on like what's going on with the census at any given time. It's a jazz capital of the country,

like the jazz history in Kansas City is a very black history, Barbecue is extremely black. And so I get really annoyed when people are like, oh god, I don't know if I want to come over there, you know? I'm like, no, come on, what are you talking about? Like some of the best parts of our country are from black culture in places like Kansas City. I learned about

womantown in Kansas City from a podcast you did with a gay Missouri historian.

Come on. Which is like incredible, like you're really putting your culture on the map, lesbianism. My culture of lesbians, I'm gonna eat all of this and be sick. Eat all of it, I'll do it with you. My culture of lesbians, yeah, no, Woman Town is this really interesting thing that happened in like the 80s and 90s where a bunch of lesbians were like, we're gonna build a utopia.

And they mean build it, I mean, these are lesbians we're talking about, they are with shelves and things. So they go to all these women's festivals, you know, like Lillith Fair and stuff, and they're like, hey, we're building a, and they're writing in the lesbian publications, come to Kansas City, we're building a utopia.

And they bought up a bunch of properties and started fixing up houses together. And the running joke at the time, my friend Stuart Hines was telling me, he's a gay professor in Kansas City, But he was telling me that the joke at the time was if you're a man and you drive through womantown duck because they'll shoot And it was just like a super like pro woman I was researching for some characters that I was writing

And talking to a bunch of these older lesbians who were around that community when they were making it It's still a very gay neighborhood in Kansas City. Kansas City is a very queer city

But yeah, really really interesting the political right seems to have co-opted the entire Midwest for themselves in the narrative Do you think you're taking it upon yourself to try and kind of reverse that in a way? I'm just telling the truth

That it's not like that. They can't have it. We're from there. We're still over there And so they it's so convenient for them that they want it to be theirs They want to be like this is this whole thing share like the red map that's like all land and they're like look how red this country is and it's like that's empty land you moron. Even though that red that

could be 38% blue and that is still representative of like millions of individuals that have hopes and dreams and souls and aspirations and live in

community there. And are your neighbors. The electoral college, the electoral college has to go. It's not working for us. It's bad, it's bad, it's bad, it's bad. It's not working and I think it's so silly and stupid. Like most people, most people don't even vote and the ones that do don't have any clear ideology. I, in my standup special that's coming out,

I talk about this, like most people in this country aren't Democrat or Republican. They're like a secret third thing You can't like you can't actually pin them down the trying to paint like the whole Midwest and South as being like one type Of way is very silly to me and the smartest like sharpest Coolest left activists that I have ever met and learned the most from live in Missouri Yeah, cuz they're so embattled they need it. It's like actually crucial to their day-to-day lives

Then I moved to Chicago and you know, I love Chicago dearly but a lot of the activists I was around which is kind of like We're chillin Existential it just wasn't they're brilliant. They're very very educated. But the the things I learned about activism from people working in Leftist politics in Missouri are still the most important things. I learned about politics. I love those people. Can I give you a sausage? Would you I'm really excited. No, you dodged me, you dodged me earlier right before we cut about God. I did. You didn't want to talk to me about God.

What's your faith? None. You no faith? No faith. Did you ever think about it? Nah.

Never crossed your mind? Ready to go on to course number two? You think I'm not gonna ask you about God in the next one? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, that wasn't, I was literally stopping so you would ask me about God in the next one.

Okay.

I grew up Jewish, but by culture and not faith necessarily. I found out that all of my Jewish grandmas, everyone, ones who kept kosher just straight, did not believe in God one bit. They're like, this is here, this is a cultural tradition. Our family fled Lithuania from the pogroms in the 1880s. This is what has kept us sort of alive as a family are these traditions, but no actual theology. It's not until recently I started thinking about that. I grew up right next to the second biggest evangelical megachurch

in America. Saddleback church in Orange County. Love their work. Are you familiar with them? No. Okay, thank God. Jesus was like, no, they got me! But like actively tried to be converted. I remember going to a friend's house and his family was serving KFC and I reached to grab a piece of chicken and his dad grabbed my hand and said, in this house, we thank our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ

for our meals and if you would like to partake in this bounty of Kentucky fried chicken, you will do the same.

And he knew I was Jewish.

That's awesome. It was awesome. Then I ate it and I threw up on his trampoline. Yeah. A bunch of coleslaw. That's awesome. The same coming in and out. That's awesome. I hope you don't cut when I did that to you before we started the show. No. You tried to bring out the food and I said, we pray. So now you said you were going big evangelical church, but it sounds like it was your decision. It wasn't like any family. My mom's always been, she's a very nice person. She's a Christian. She reads the Bible, but she's never gone to church because she was working so much and raising kids that she was like, the last thing I'm doing on my Sunday morning is getting dressed up

and going to a building to be told how to was like I want to fit in so I started like Sending myself to church and my mom was I think I do genuine she would never say this But I genuinely think she was a little like oh, you know I think I think she was like you're kind of like a loser, you know Being like, what do you mean? You want to go to church and I went to one of those cool mega churches. Did you see that? I hope the camera caught that like incredible juice pop from that sausage. Gets an instant replay.

I really didn't, I really wanted to just get into it and not cut it with a knife because I think that's the proper way to eat that sausage. You're correct and it looked really cool. I hope the camera shows read the Bible. That's, yeah, it's a bad start to get your stomach that one. I'm dead serious. You read that thing front to cover and you go, this is bad shit. I really like Revelation. I loved it, man. You go, this shit's crazy. Another one was, I remember in youth group, one time I asked, we, there Hey, this is gonna be sad. There was a kid that killed themselves and I'm so sorry to bring that up

But they I asked that youth group, you know, we were talking about it We're having a discussion which is actually quite healthy and good But I was like, you know what happens to someone who? Who I commit suicide and they were like, well, unfortunately they do go to hell and I was like, okay It's saying to just stare at someone's face and say that truly crazy about about like their friend. And then I remember I was like, okay, let me take it a step further and see if I really understand this.

And then I was like, I was maybe in like middle school. I was like, what about someone who's born and genuinely never heard the word of God? Like never, no one ever witnessed to them. They're in like a far corner of the world. And I'm not kidding you, my very otherwise like a reasonable guy who exists in the world, was like, well, the Bible says that we should know by the wind and the trees that God is real.

And I said, this is stupid, man. I was like, I'm so sorry, but that's crazy.

Here's your iPod, sir.

I was like, I'm taking my latte and I'm hitting the road. This is crazy. I just couldn't believe it.

And that for me was one of the times as I get older, I just start craving that amount of faith. And I don't know if it's certainty, some sort of purpose, community. I know you went through like this very heavy atheist phase where you were just posting on Facebook about the flying spaghetti monster. And you were hosting film screenings of atheist films

for the youth group kids. Did you show them the movie Jesus Camp?

No, Jesus Camp was a little bit after that. So we were already out of it. But I showed them, well, now I feel bad that I put his work on because he's gone nuts, but Bill Maher Religulous. That movie I was showing all my Christian friends and being like, so what do you have to say?

Like trying to ruin their faith as a teenager. I truly, I think like what I want more than anything all the time is just connection. I'm like chasing connection, I wanna connect with people. It used, I think when I was a little bit younger, I wanted people to like me really badly, and I was mistaking that for chasing connection. That was like everyone needs to like me.

I can connect with plenty of people who don't like me. I think it happens all the time, you know? But I just wanna connect with people so badly I could see myself ending up in a religious movement on accident. Where do you actually stand in terms of theology though?

Like if you were to say, does God exist or not? Or is that question even on top of your mind?

Yeah, I think to me God is an energy and like a force. I think God is like, I do think that generally humans have within us, now some of us bury it and some of us destroy it and some of us put greed ahead of it, but I think humans at a baseline are fundamentally good and there's a force in the universe that pushes us to want to be good and do good and to love people and to be nice and I think that force is God, but I don't think God's like a person in the sky

like you know raining down judgment and I don't I'm I'm heaven maybe, hell absolutely not. There's no such thing as hell. Makes no sense. There's no such thing. There's nothing you could do on this earth that would be proportional to an eternity of anything.

If it was really down there, we would have found it with strip mining.

I'm saying.

We would have just gotten there.

Well, and I, yeah, I do a lot of drilling for oil.

Sure, yeah.

I didn't know that about you.

So I- I'm happy to do it, and the reason is because of- Have those ducks recovered yet? No. No, well, what are you gonna do? But they're ducks.

They're ducks!

At a certain point, who f***ing cares?

I don't care about them at all.

But I do, I drill, I drill, I drill, and I think I would've found something down there. I think so, yeah.

The way that we're drilling. I would love for you to tell them about it. Where's my publicist? She's here somewhere, isn't she? Caleb, for course number three of your final meal on Earth, we have the bucatini with guanciale from Hippo. We have the crab fried rice from Love to Eat Thai Bistro. Then the Sichuan green beans from Xiang La Hui. Can I offer you some fresh grated cheese on top of your bucatini?

I'm actually okay without cheese, but I would I would love to do it for you If you would allow me to give you some on yours, I yeah, okay fabulous. Thank you. Do you want me to hold that? Yeah, you ready? Okay? Say when and maybe we could put that some Italian music over this This is way harder than you think am I doing this the right way?

Sorry, I'm listening to the Italian music in my head deep deep deep you to do or whatever when it's like a gondola You watch Eurovision? No. What? Why? What's that? You don't know about Eurovision? It's the Super Bowl of live international.

That's the singing one?

Yeah.

Oh yeah, no I've never seen it, but I know about them. They have like the freakish people from Finland and stuff that do their songs.

Yeah, so you're talking about Cha-Cha-Cha by Karia. Should have won in 2023, but did not. I dressed like him for the next Eurovision party though. Yeah, we rented out our favorite dive bar. We're chainmail. Yeah, that's enough cheese

Thank you

Yeah, I don't I find I find it very scary when Europeans gather Nothing good happens when they do historically we shouldn't let them get together and when they do I feel very scared I'm either paganism or fascism. Yeah, either one.'s like, don't touch me. Yeah, I don't like it. Or when they sing, even, it's like, stop it.

I don't know.

I like the sexy, bisexual Italian rock bands, though.

They're from Monoskin. Sexy, bisexual Italian rock bands?

Monoskin. They won in 2021.

Incredible year. This is incredible. One thing I tried to do with my dishes was I thought, ma'am, so many people might watch this, because you guys have such a big following.

Thank you.

You have a very successful show. I appreciate that. It really means a lot that you said that. I want to congratulate you. But so many people might watch this, and if they come to LA, I don't want to give dishes from restaurants they can't get into, you know? Okay. when I lived here. Hippo, great restaurant, good pasta. Get a whole high, go sit on the patio. Yeah, it's a great place. Why not? Out there in the sticks though, depending on where you live.

You gotta get out to Highland Park. That's true. You know? That's really true. I do love the bucatini with the guanciale, and I will say you that, hey, we got this driven over from Hippo, the chef made

it fresh.

Yes. But we couldn't fire it fresh, the noodles are gonna be overcooked. So if you could not pay any attention to that, you decided then that you were going to do

that. Yes, sir. And do you wanna know why I made that call? I would love to know. you know, homophobic or Republican or whatever. You, in all seriousness, before the cameras rolled for this segment, you called me a hack. You called me a hack.

No, I said many people were saying

that you have hack tendencies.

You called me a hack.

I tried to do that to goad you out of saying that the pasta was overcooked.

You know, I came in here with nothing but respect for you and your staff. has been crazy. Yeah. I am. It has been so crazy. With respect and kindness. It's insane that we did that.

With respect and kindness, yeah.

Yeah.

How do you think you've remained so bulletproof with all the crazy shit you say? Is it because people know that you have a really good heart?

But I'm a comedian. I feel like I'm supposed to say, I'm supposed to be saying edgy stuff.

Don't you feel? certain things that you say that end up being Republican coded as in and I don't think it should be this way say it but saying that I'm a comedian I should be saying edgy stuff yeah there's a very different type of comic than you that generally says those things yeah but in the same way that Republicans have tried to intellectually colonize the Midwest do you think they're doing that with

edgy comedy I think it's very funny that leftists like we get so like the thing that the right says all the time about like queer people and trans people and like leftist is there We're like woke scolds or something I'm like if you hung out with some of the trans women I hang out with You would hear the most vile shit you have ever heard in your I mean these people are nasty They're really funny, and they're joking about everything and it's really really I mean it cracks me up, but I just think yeah

I don't know And I think if in a couple years people go that guy is so annoying I'd go no worries

Go hey rock on. That's a healthy way to think about it. Well, whatever, you know, you can't do everything forever hard pivot here I'm too full to find a segue. You're writing a movie directed by Lily Wachowski about your dead dad called trash mountain

Yeah, what do you want people to take away from that? Well, I want to thank you teed that one up and no I'm playing. I imagine I was sensitive. Yeah, I wrote a movie about my dad dying. He was a hoarder, which is awesome. But yeah, it's about going home to deal with that. And it's a great team.

Colin Gervaro's producing, Lily's involved, Chris Wray, brilliant director is also involved. This is gonna be, I co-wrote it with my friend, Ruby Castor, who's a genius. And we have some really fun cast attached to it, but you're never allowed to talk about that stuff

in case it doesn't happen. But I'm excited, I think we'll probably make it pretty soon.

I know you said that when you went to spend weekends with your dad, it felt like disappearing into a black hole, which is like a really heartbreaking thing. Yeah. Because I grew up going to a visitation divorce dad where it was like awesome and I look forward to that all the time. But are there any things that you look back on as an adult with time with your dad

that you're really grateful for?

My dad showed me a lot of comedy. He showed me a lot of standup, which he should not have been doing. I mean, he showed me Car fan. He was a fan of Thurgood Marshall the Supreme Court Justice He like what he like loved the guy He was a his decisions were either they were just measured like he like really loved the Supreme Court Justice Thurgood Marshall

And I just like he he respected integrity He taught me a lot about like what it means to be a nice person and like being he was very big on like politeness Which is funny because he was kind of an asshole. But yeah, he taught me so many good things. Did he know he was an asshole?

Would he agree with that?

Oh yeah, yeah.

But he would always, he would give it a folksy kind of, like he'd be like, I'm a little rough around the edges. I'm like, you're an asshole, you know?

I understand your dad was also kind of depressed them of him when he was young. Does any part of that freak you out? Yes. Oh, am I just doomed to turn into this person who was obviously such a brighter light earlier in his life?

Totally. Dude, my dad would be like, when he was still alive, my dad would be like, I used to be just like you. I lit up every room and I was like, don't say that. I had that beautiful singing voice too. I was like, it's such a scary thing to say. Because he's like, yeah, then something someday just flipped. I don't actually fear that it'll happen to me,

because I think the big mistake of my dad's life was that he really gave in to the mental illness. And he really just was like, well, I'm depressed. What am I supposed to do? And he allowed himself to be siloed. And I have a rule that when I'm feeling depressed or I'm feeling down, it's two to one. Two to one, you have to say yes, and one, you can say no.

If Monday night, you want to stay in the house, cancel your plans, and eat horribly, do nothing, watch garbage, go nuts. But the next two nights, you're doing something. And I think those rules in that, the community and the network that I have, I think that will help me to not ever become

like him. But that's scary shit to say to your kid, knowing that you're off. To be like, yeah, I used to be like you and then something just clicked and now I'm depressed for the rest of my life.

I think I saw that in both my parents. That's always been my biggest fear. My wife and I were having the conversation recently of are we all sort of doomed? But it sounds like you think that there are actual measures that you could put in place that can like stop you from

Succumbing to that you okay. You want to talk about a moment where I sound kind of Republican. I do randomly believe in personal responsibility

Kayla for your final course your final meal. Yeah on earth You got the Whole Foods berry chantilly cake, but we wanted to make it a little extra special for you. So you were recently named the sixth, Caleb, you were recently named the sixth most influential creator in the world by Rolling Stone Magazine. That is one spot higher than Mr. Beast,

who then rage tweeted that he couldn't believe that a person with only one million followers was named more influential than him and that the Rolling Stones were mad at him. And so I know you've been in active peace talks. Yeah.

We're hoping that this cake can sort of seal the deal.

Yeah, that's very cute. God love him. I, you know, he called me, Mr. Beast, called me and said, I'm so sorry about that.

And I said-

Did he actually?

This is a real thing that happened? He really did. He called, he said, can I call you? I said, yeah, sure. He called me I said, why the hell not brother? He called me. He was so apologetic. I said I legit, I legitimately thought it was funny I thought it was so funny. I laughed so hard. It, mr. Beast. This is sorry comma sign mr. Beast Also, I just snuffed the candle flame out with my hand. That was beautiful improv though. You really you got that quick Sorry, mr. Beast. You should blow the candle. It's only it's I will but I thought it was funny. I thought he was right I thought the whole thing I also don't by the way, I don't think the list was meant to be ranked. I think they just put it in order of what they thought would make people keep reading But I thought it was so funny. I was like, that's hilarious

And he was very apologetic. I was like, no worries, dude. I thought it was funny. You've made it. Yeah, please Are you guys impressed by that no one cared I did that from so far away. Thank you or the Barry side? Barry side. So, there was some Barry Chantilly cake from Whole Foods community, back me up on this in the comments. There was some drama because Whole Foods, now you're thinking, Caleb, you're a classy guy, why did you put a cake from Whole Foods on the damn list on the show? Because the cake is genuinely incredible and you can get it anywhere, so when you're traveling

it feels like a little, something familiar. And they changed the recipe and they thought we wouldn't notice. And we did. The Chantilly Cake community, we went off.

Yeah.

They and we in this are interesting. They changed the recipe and thought we wouldn't notice.

They, Whole Foods, we, the community.

Okay.

I'm sorry.

I'm sorry, apparently it was very simple. We, the Chantilly Cake community, we noticed, we uproared. And I've heard that maybe they changed it back. I don't know if they did change it back. I haven't had it in a minute. Because when they changed it, I boycotted silently.

But.

You're very brave. The history of activism does run deep in your head.

Yes. If I would send this. Pick a terrorist group and send them this cake and just write a note that says, would you guys quit?

Yeah.

And I think they will.

And they would say, sorry, Mr. Beast.

They'd say, sorry, Mr. Beast.

Which is crazy.

It's incredible.

Have you been to Sweet Lady Jane?

What are you doing?

What do you mean, what am I doing?

What are you doing? When you just had my cake actually yeah, no I can actually I'm dead serious right now We talked about I'm kind of earnest. I look at what I said, and I'm disgusted by that We're sweet lady Jane, I don't really Jane and Popularized this cake in LA called the triple berry cake. Oh you think this is a this is a knockoff of it This is a knockoff and it's not it's not as good well now. I'm doubling down on all the rudeness. Oh my god. It's not nearly as good But you see how he's been secretly kind of rude to me the whole episode and now it's coming out Yeah, it's coming out very directly. I've been so passive-aggressive

And now I'm pulled because it's about to wrap up. If you left now we could still have a functional episode Yeah up so now I have nothing to lose

No, I just really I think you're awesome and I've really enjoyed hanging out with you Yeah, and the cake thing was a the mask slipped my friend. I did the comment the commenters will prove me right on this

I normally don't blow up like that And I lost my cool there. We got to get this guy to the golf course. I Was thinking about what mr. B said and like you said he is correct. Mm-hmm. You only have a million followers. You also are Incredibly influential though barely a million. You are a lot more influential than your followers would belie. And then I was thinking,

you could have way more followers and you've actively made choices not to.

I don't want more followers.

Love that for you.

Don't, please don't cut that. Please stop following. No, I don't want more followers.

Get out of here.

What do I need? I'm chilling. My bills are paid. I sell. I get to do shows. I do the size of venues that I like. My staff is paid. My family is paid. I'm like, chill. I'm chilling. I don't want more.

I like really, I'm actually very scared, if you want an earnest note. I had a big crash out to my friends coming out and some of the work and stuff. I'm very grateful because I like making stuff, you know? I like being in movies and I like working with people and collaborating, but I'm like really scared because I don't want to be more famous. I really, really, really am scared of it.

I think it's a, I've seen people get very famous that I know, and I really view it as a process of isolation. And you just, it's like you're on an island of one you can't go grocery shopping You can't go to a concert and be left alone. You can't go get a coffee without it being strange I really really really am not dying for more of it But it's it's kind of I can understand why people would be annoyed to hear me say that if they were because then here I am Doing this shit, you know what? I mean? I'm on your show a stand-up special where I stand up there for an hour and talk. I just like it I like making stuff and I want to make people laugh. I'm very scared of fame

And so I try very hard to thread this needle of like, okay I do have a public career and that's insane of me for someone who says they don't want more followers But I try to just be like well, I don't have to I don't have to try to constantly be growing it end over end After climbing the mountain, what's left for me but lightning? I've been saying that. You took that from me. That's my quote. You took that.

That was your high school yearbook quote.

That's my high school yearbook quote. I authored that.

The world seems to be getting worse. The phones are killing people. The AI is making us dumber. The oceans are acidifying all this. What gives you hope for the future?

Um, yeah, I guess it is getting pretty bad.

Well, shit.

I know I feel bad for bursting the bubble.

Oh, damn. I hadn't thought about it.

I know things were going pretty well until they changed the cake.

And I think that's when it that's when it started. You're kidding. But wait until the Barry Chantilly heads get a hold of this I mean, they're gonna be in the comments letting you know, we had a real moment of crisis What's giving me hope like people, you know, I think people are I think people are mostly nice I really do think like you read all this stuff about how like everyone's antisocial and everyone's this or that and then you go out And you're like, hey, how's it going? And they're like, oh good. what about you? I don't know. It's like, people are generally nice. You're reading it on your phone.

Yeah.

It's killing you.

I think if you go out into the world with an energy of wanting to meet nice people, of course you interact with some crazy, annoying people. But for the most part, you meet nice people. I do think we're mostly good. And I think that we will even though we're in a really weird moment

The reason I think that is because even people who support really bad evil stuff They do believe that they're good You know what? I mean and I and I think that their their desire to be good. So if we can just- It's something that can be harnessed and directed. Yeah, if we can just show them that, you know, it's like, you're actually not doing good even though you want to so badly.

That's obviously the hard part that I don't know who's gonna do it. Probably not me, I'm busy, but, somebody's gotta get into that. You have an HBO special I think that's the first step in he'll Caleb here in model comedian. Yes, it's out on September 19th It's on September 19th on HBO sure, but you don't think the world conflicts are gonna be going on after that

No, so the special comes out September 19 sure and then I your special out of the 20th no yeah it's special out 19th as a result war ends the 20th that makes more sense and then by Halloween no famine and then I think everyone's housed by January yeah that's my plan that's what your publicist sent me that's what my

publicist are telling people sure so but you guys have to stream you know if you don't stream we can't do anything about houselessness yeah that's a toughie. So please stream.

What do you think happens when you die?

I have a real fear that it's nothing. You ever think about that?

Yeah.

Yeah.

You ever think about that?

I'm almost like a 99.7% certain in my own politics and spirituality.

God, that would be tough.

Wouldn't that be silly all this for nothing off a shoe though, you know You're driving home from your friends except forever and think about taking off the shoe is that you get to watch TV or something afterwards Yeah, it's tough to be like you take off the shoe and then it's not you're falling to a black hole It's like I'll keep the shoe on. Yeah What do I think happens when we die? I really hope it's something nice. I've kind of been flirting with the idea recently that maybe everyone goes to a good place and that no one gets punished for anything that they did here and that it's just like,

we all get there and we all kind of go like, that was crazy that you did that.

You know?

But they're good once they get there, that they go, I'm sorry y'all, what was I thinking? All those people that tried to do good, they kind of get up there and they're all healed in this universal love. And if it's nothing, I'm gonna be so pissed, because what was all this about?

Can I ask you a question?

Go ahead.

What do you think of me?

Well, I will say that that is the second time you've asked me that, in knowing each other for about 68 minutes.

What do you think of me?

Sure, no, I think you could have done anything that you wanted in this life. I think you are that gifted Logos pathos ethos like you have every single trapping of somebody who could have frankly conquer the world and done bad things Evil. A little bit. Yeah. Life is long. You know life is long You could still be pivoting become lead legal counsel for British Petroleum. Yeah, something like that. I know you'd do it But I'm very glad that you've chosen to use those skills for comedy And I think you have an incredible deductive powers to use that for your own happiness Not your own power, which I think is very important. Well, that's very sweet

I I did when I said it I thought maybe we would come to a kind of a funny place where you did like a Joke, and then you said something very sweet, which was extremely nice of you. And I do appreciate that. Do you want me to do it?

We can do another take.

Do you want to do a take where we do a joke? OK. And then you guys just decide what you want to use?

Yeah, yeah, sure. OK, OK.

You guys ready?

OK.

What do you think of me?

Pfft.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Yeah, let's go let's do it Doing this for what do you think? Caleb is the one person dead or alive you'd want to share your actual last meal with

Dolly Parton what song do you want to be played at your funeral? Dynamite I don't even know who sings that song is that a con Taya Cruz, thank you by the way. Why is everyone so fast onayo? Dino nailed it up there. What was your name? Samara realist Truly I went who does a Tayo Cruz Crazy pull yeah that one. Yeah, that's good. What is the gender of dr. Pepper? Uh, dr. Pepper is a boy

Yeah, cuz I just love guys and I just think like yeah, it's not that women can't be doctors It's not like that at all But I just love guys and hanging out guys and when I when I crack a cold dr. Pepper open I feel like I'm with the boys daddy, you know That's sick ass Cheers for real dinosaurs on but shout out to women in many ways. Why do you love women as well? Orange crush is women orange crush is and you know, what else is woman. What is that cherry coke? Who's your dream eulogizer your funeral? Oh, you know you know who I want a Philip Seymour Hoffman

Oh wouldn't that be nice if he knew me and he said really sweet stuff to say about me

Yeah, but you would only want him in so far as he knew you and was able to speak to your work and character

Yeah that thing, you know that thing that men do when they're clearly wanting to cry but they are embarrassed? And so they go like... You know where they just like can't, they just try to like talk through it but they're like, oh dang it! Like that kind of thing. Or even through a real small hole in your... Like it'd be cool if he did, like he was so busted up over my death that he was doing stuff like that. But real, not acted, or you'd let him or you'd leave one back No, I feel that his acting was only a demonstration of how how interesting of a person he was in real life

Um at what point during the Kansas City Chiefs Eagles Super Bowl?

Did your heart officially break and know that the game was lost? Yeah, I was home by halftime. I left my friends We were having a watch. I was in Kansas City. We're having a watch party. I want to tell you before it even went to half I had my crock pot and I was I was loading it into the trunk of my car

No, the little the the the little smokies with the grape jelly and barbecue sauce you took that home

I took I grabbed I truly it was like I don't know we were down by like a Hundred thousand points or something and Jalen hurts as being like the sexiest person alive Cooper DeJean pick six. Oh my god. They're like palling around over there I was in the kitchen just grabbing my shit angry Just like grabbing my chips and I walked in my friends like are you good heading out? I was like, yeah put my stuff in the car went home didn't even watch the rest of the game

I was so upset for two consecutive hours. I was the only Eagles fan there me and my wife both independently Eagles fans Yeah, only Eagles fans there. We were sitting there as everybody came up to us and just went, congratulations. Like we were a six year old at our own birthday party. We're hammered. I made something called bird juice that was bright green with Midori in it.

And I was like, thank you, mister.

Thanks y'all.

And then, yeah, it was great. Well, you guys are brave because I don't, at my, I host watch parties for the Chiefs every week. can't come. Uh, what's your biggest fear? Either being, you know, like when you sit down on the toilet and you don't, you forgot to look inside. And then if a snake jumped up and bit you. Yeah. If you're ever sitting on the toilet and you think of this,

you could be really, really scared. And I often am. And then, um, other than that, it's maybe that I, people don't like me. This is really like a one biggest fear. Yeah, I'll go snake more that you'd rather somebody dislike you But your asshole not be bitten by a snake. Yeah, I'm going snake. I get that. Yeah What was the strongest bit from your SNL edition? Uh, you know what?

The two best things ever happened here that I didn't get that job twice, but I did That's the top two I did though the first time I I did though, the first time I really wanted it. Because the first time I auditioned for SNL was 2019. And I didn't have any followers or team or any career to speak of. And I was like, I want to make comedy and people actually see it. And I had this one bit called Haunted Mirror.

It was my closer at the time. You know, you get a five minute character set. And this is why they flew me out to screen tests is that they saw this bit live in Chicago. And it was this woman who, she was talking to her daughter's friends at their sleepover. And she was like laying down the ground rules for the house.

And she was like, y'all just have fun and like, you know, keep the noise to a dull roar. And then one, you know, there's no one else there, but I'd go, oh, sorry, what's that, honey? Oh, yeah, there's a mirror upstairs with a green glow of its own emission.

Don't look into it, all right? Thank you, sugar. What? And then she kept answering questions about it, and it was just all about this haunted mirror. And it was, I don't remember most of it,

but I was very, very proud of it. And I loved that bit. And I didn't get it.

I'm so glad they didn't find that funny, because otherwise I don't know if you'd be here.

So I think it was a blessing for me. But yeah, I love that bit.

Finally, Caleb, are you happy?

Yes, I am. Yes, I am. I am quite happy. I feel very happy. I do sometimes wonder if I'm happy, you know, because you have a day where you're like really stressed out

and you're like, do I like what I'm doing? Am I happy? No, sometimes I'm pissed off Sometimes I'm sad, but I think overall when we ask if someone's happy we mean do you like your life? Are you happy to be alive? Would you like to continue doing it and the answer to all those questions for me is absolutely Yes, Caleb, if you want to deliver your last words to that camera right there. Okay, my very last words. I hope everybody had a nice time. That's the, I hope everybody had a nice time. Wouldn't that be sweet?

That would be really sweet if they did. I think those are really nice last words.

I think so too.

Yeah.

Everyone check out Caleb Heron, model comedian on HBO Max 919. And then on 920, No More Wars. Tell them about the famine ending.

No more war on 920. By Halloween, no more houselessness. By the new year, no, it's Halloween Famine.

Halloween Famine ends, and that's also on HBO Max.

In 2026, yeah, these are all the specials that are coming out this year. 2026, no more Unhoused. Sure, that's- Unless you wanna be.

No, unless you wanna be.

Yeah, if you wanna be hungry or unhoused,

you're welcome you. 100%, and I wanna thank Depression for being a proud sponsor of this episode. You've always come through. You're the reason I drive a nine year old Nissan, so thank you so much to Depression. Caley, got anything else to plug?

No, I would just love to hang out with you again, brother, with the driving range or wherever.

I would, yeah, driving range, just me, you, and my wife. I would, yeah, driving range, just me, you, and my wife.

Yeah.