CBC'S David Cochrane Actually Agrees With Conservatives Criticizing Mark Carney's Capitulation

We don't get a whole lot of details as Canadians about agreements like this one when phone conversations happen with the president, the status of negotiations and I think it's pretty ballsy frankly to ask Canadians for their support and then provide none of that information over the course of the last 16 months.

Bang!Mark Carney tried to tell Canadians that he was the one that could handle Donald Trump.That he knew how he operated, knew how he negotiated and that only he was able to get a deal for Canada.But after almost two years of concessions to the United States, it's not only Canadians that are asking, when are we actually going to get something?CBC's power and politics panel also is starting to ask that same question.

Let's take a look.Vandana, two very different perspectives on this deal off the top of the show between Mayor Dilkens of Windsor and Shoov Majumdar.Mayor Dilkens seems to think this is a nothing burger, very little money going to go to the US, it gets the bridge open and you heard what the Conservatives think.Why no specifics from the government and how much cash is actually going to the US as a result of this?

I think they're still trying to figure all that out.I think the important thing they focused on is getting the bridge open to begin with.in And, you know, Windsor and Michigan, you know, they're hurting.You know, we're hurting for a number of reasons.But I think opening the bridge is like the focus of the government.I think the details will come later.

But I think in the meantime, the focus was, can we get the bridge open?Can we make sure trade's going through?You know, the profit that'll come through this, the economic development and trade numbers will be enormous over the next 15 years.So I think that has been the clear focus.I think over the next few weeks, you'll see a bit more details from the government.

So Katie, it's pretty clear there's a concession of sorts here.The value of it, whether it's material or nominal, just to make it happen, we don't know yet.But it's another example of where the U .S.has leverage, won't live up to a signed agreement, signed with the Stephen Harper government, and Canada has to give to get what it's entitled to under the written letter of the contract.

I think it sets a bad precedent for two parties effectively agreeing that a legal contract doesn't matter.You know, Vandita points to some of the economic benefits of opening the bridge and I think there's cross -partisan consensus that the bridge being open is a good thing.It's a good thing for Canada for that to happen.But it's really hard to judge the merits of this deal given how little information we actually have.When you go from having 100 % of the profits, set to come to Canada to perhaps only half of that set to come to Canada.It is hard not to look at that as a shakedown.

So is this something that perhaps could have been negotiated as part of a bigger deal, a broader deal, rather than a piecemeal approach?I think that it's fair to ask the government that question and I think it's fair for the Canadians who wanted to see the Prime Minister stand up to Donald Trump and dig in on this issue and others recognize that this is yet another capitulation to the President.

I like what Kate said here.because she's rebutting the Liberal which is Vandana and and she's saying well you know we just had to get this open and you know you you basically had to give give some something up in order to get that but Mark Carney has been trying to tell Canadians for the last year and a half that well you know we're not going to agree to a bad deal okay well then what would you say this is because both Vandana and and Kate is right there was already a previous agreement with the United States signed.Even David Cochran said that.So when it comes to Mark Carney, why aren't you just standing up and publicly saying, listen, we have a contract, we signed it in good faith between our two countries, and we're going to abide by the terms of that contract.We initially went to Michigan, which Canada did, to ask them if they would consider sharing the cost of the bridge.They said no.

So Canada bore the entire cost of the bridge.So it kind of made sense that Canada would get to keep 100 % of the profits.But this is where the problem is, and Kate nails it.She says, listen, Mark Carney essentially sent a signal to Donald Trump that Donald Trump can revise any contracts that he wishes, and Canada will capitulate and play along, much as the precedent that Carney has already set with the Americans and Donald Trump.So you don't have to cheer for Donald Trump.You don't have to hate Donald Trump.

That's actually irrelevant.You have to look at what Mark Carney is doing, right?This is the issue.And Mark Carney is not living up to what he said.He's not living up to what he promised.He's not living up to what he says his resume says about him.

And he's not living up to what his election platform was.It was all built on elbows up, like the whole thing.How many things branded with elbows up did we see come out of that?Even during Mark Carney's celebratory night when he won the Liberal leadership, he was doing this bad dance of putting his elbows it was it was i'm not even going to show it it was terrible but this is what he branded himself as and now he's doing the exact opposite so i think it's a great point made by by kate harrison and she took david cochran's observation andsaid, yeah, that's the problem here.Mark Carney isn't standing up to Donald Trump.

He keeps capitulating to him, all under this mystique of, oh, it's a grand strategy.Oh, it's a grand strategy.So let's just follow that for a second.If the grand strategy is to just wait and see and let Trump get held accountable by his own country, that's not you standing up to Donald Trump.That's letting the American people stand up to Donald Trump.John Q American.

So our big and tough Prime Minister won't stand up to Donald Trump.He's going to let the average American people do it for him.What a negotiator.

You run into a risk of economic self -harm, though, if you dig in on this one, right?If the bridge stays closed.I mean, this is the leverage play.

We are in a perpetual state of economic self -harm the longer that we have tariffs in place.This is another component of that.But again, it begs the question, where are we at in terms of the broader discussion around this deal?I think, considering the Prime Minister ran on securing a better deal, being the guy to negotiate with Trump, we don't get a whole lot of details as Canadians about agreements like this one, when phone conversations happen with the president, the status of negotiations.And I think it's pretty ballsy, frankly, to ask Canadians for their support and then provide none of that information over the course of the last 16 months.

Bang.What a response by Kate.Cochran sitting there trying to say, well, you know, we kind of had to open the bridge, right?Because, you know, it's going to be committing economic self -harm.And the minute I started thinking of it, kate just jumped into it like what do you think is happening right now david what do you think has been happening for the lastyear and a half?

Mark Carney is living the high life on the Canadian taxpayer dime, flying all over the world, eating like a king, telling Canadians nothing, expecting businesses to just deal with it.As we've seen, mold tool and die makers have been saying, we're on the front line and we're just expected to take it.What's the plan?And Carney and the government doesn't share anything.Now they say, well, you know, we don't negotiate in public.Okay, from an objective standpoint, sure, I can accept that.

You don't want to give away your hand before you've actually played it.But once you've played the hand, guess what happens at the end of the poker game?Usually, all the cards flip up.And since we're paying your salary, and we're paying for your flights all over the country, I think Canadians deserve to see what the cards are now that this deal is done.You can't just say, well, you know, the deal has been done, but we're finalizing details later.I don't buy that because you don't agree to a deal before you know what the details are in the first place.

It's kind of the first rule in making deals and you don't have to read Donald Trump's book to actually understand that.

Well, Brad, we have had reassurances from the government and Mayor Dilken seems to agree that the 15 -year window in which this 50 % sharing of the profits holds, the profits because of the capital payback on operating costs and interest during construction, it won't amount to much.But again, we have no numbers on it.But this whole thing is, it's the Canada -U .S.relation writ large, is it not?That as you try to get a deal, how do you know it's going to count even if you get one?

Right.How do you know if it's going to hold until the 27th of July, which is an eternity away?It's two weeks away.It can be an eternity in Donald Trump's reality.It's there's no question this is a this is a shakedown by the White House.The direct line goes to the

owner of the Ambassador Bridge is a major donor to Republicans and to MAGA, PACS and anything to slow down every day that the Ambassador Bridge is the sole crossing in that region benefits the American people.White House donors, Donald Trump donors.And so even the month and a half that will be the delay, if July 27th is the opening day, has profited tremendously donors.This is exactly the way Donald Trump operates.He's a grifter and he's a shakedown artist.So then the question becomes, is this a good deal to get it open for what we know at this stage?

As long as the Canadian taxpayer gets their money back, That's the difference between revenues and profits from the bridge as long as we have and it's a 50 -year horizon I believe before we were paid off under the 2012 budget agreement under Stephen Harper.If that's still the horizon, then the Canadian public get their benefits back.It's the profits.And we can debate about whether the economic authority on the American side is going to reinvest in that bridge on the other side.But we have to understand here that while this is a difficult man to deal with, the benefits to the supply chain in North America and the trucking industry, if you have any goods coming either from the States to Canada that comes over that bridge, this will be a benefit to them.So at the end of the day, as long as we pay ourselves back over 50 years, I think most Canadians will probably say that that's better to have it open and have Detroit enjoy a little bit more of some of the profits than it being delayed until maybe after the midterms, which is one of Carney's potential options that he had is to wait Trump out until Michiganders go to the polls.

in the fall.

Yeah, look, I don't think he will.Stephen Harper and his government didn't build this bridge to be a moneymaker.It was meant to be like an economic lift, a wealth creator, right?Like it would pay for itself over a half century.But the productivity and economic distant gains for the supply chain, that was the motivation there.But Vandana, we don't know the orders of magnitude.

Is it millions, tens of millions, hundreds of millions?We have no idea on that.But it is just it is so illustrating just of the total nature of the relationship now because the deals with Michigan, it's just that it's customs controlled by the federal government on the other side that won't open until, as Kate said, the shakedown was agreed to.That's kind of what's revealing about all of this.

Yeah, I think we're going to look at a state -state relationship here.And I think what I would see a lot on social media is people from Michigan and people who are running in the midterms talking about why this bridge is closed, why is Donald Trump keeping me hostage.So I do think in a way that Donald Trump felt like he had to put this forward ahead of the midterms.So I don't think that we have lost all leverage.I think actually the fact that we were able to get this is key progress for Canadians.I think most Canadians understand that Donald Trump, exactly as Brad mentioned, you can't trust anything he says.

From now to July 27th he can also change his mind and every country that has tried to have a deal with him has made some sort of concession or something has shifted etc etc.So I think the fact that there is progress to be made that this deal is even happening after being told it isn't I think is important and I think the most important piece of this is what will come after it.Today there's some questions of course, but I think as long as the trade continues, as long as people see the economic benefits, and if there's development agency that benefits people of Windsor who are hurting as they are predominantly with the auto sector, I think people can live with that.I think Canadians want to know that our Prime Minister can negotiate with this man and that there is a deal.I think they understand that a concession will have to be made, but I think he's done so responsibly.

So I haven't watched all of this yet, but this is very interesting to see Kate smiling, listening to Vandana actually put this answer out.What we're seeing is future damage control for the Liberals.I'm hearing, well, You know, imagine this is six months or a year from now.Well, we couldn't negotiate, you know, anything into Kuzma because we can't believe anything Donald Trump says anyway.So, you know, that's not our fault.That's Donald Trump's fault.

Like who can who can manage this guy?Everybody else has made concessions.So, you know, we've had to make concessions.That's not our fault.That's just what we have to do.So, you know, our prime minister, just imagine, imagine what everybody else would have had to concede if we didn't have our strong banker.

old negotiator that was Mark Carney at the head of the table.Just imagine what this will sound like when Kuzma gets worse.Kuzma doesn't get touched.Like who knows?Who knows?But this is what I'm hearing from Vandana right now.

And it's so rich.It's so rich when you go back and watch the clips.And I'm not going to show you the clips again.We've shown them in dozens of videos of Mark Carney to roaring applause, tell everybody how tough he's going to be on Donald Trump.And I'm just very curious to see what Kate is about to say here.

My understanding, Kate, and I don't know this for sure, because even the government officials I was speaking with today is that the money that goes to development agency from the profits will be spent on the American side.Yes.Right.So, you know, it is for them.It is it is it is a straight.I mean, it may benefit Windsor if it increases traffic flows coming the other way, but very indirectly, very, very indirectly.

It is unquestionably a concern.to get what Canada was entitled to, but is it possible, as the mayor says, believes, and the Prime Minister says, that it doesn't really amount to much just given the payback nature of infrastructure projects that cost this much.

Before we get to Kate, that was significant.That's David Cochran calling out Mark Carney and agreeing with what we've said, with what the Conservatives said, with what the Liberals will not accept.because you've seen them posting on social media that, well, you know, 50 % isn't really going to the United States.You know, it's not going to the United States.Yes, it is.Yes, it is.

And I'm actually glad David Cochran said it on national TV for the CBC watchers to hear.This was a concession.It was a concession to the original deal that was signed with the United States, period.And you can try and play semantics.You can try and play that shell game, but you're not going to see any benefit if any marginally to the Canadian side of the border from the 50 % of funds that actually go to the American side as a result of this bridge.That's that's significant that David Cochran actually managed to say that out loud on his own segment.

I think if that were the case, then there should be a higher degree of comfort from the Prime Minister in sharing the details about the deal.What do we care if we're offending Donald Trump if it's actually a smaller amount?

Because he might close it again, Kate.

He might blow it up.There is an option here that's not just hoping and wishing and waiting.I know Brad's talking about, you know, waiting till the midterms and seeing what happens.Why not weave in the Gordie Howe bridge and the plan there to the broader negotiation and coming up with trust North America and coming up with a deal that benefits both parties.I think the government clearly wants to just try and wait it out and see.what happens.

But at every moment, they have caved to the president.So Vandana is right in that Canadians want to see the Prime Minister negotiate.We're getting a pretty good look at his negotiation skills, David, and they're not particularly overwhelming.We lost on DST.We're losing on the Gordie Howe bridge.He promised Canadians that he was going to be the guy to get a deal.

And if this is the litmus test for what a broader Kuzma negotiation looks like, I think there's going to be a lot of Canadians with buyer's remorse.

Brad, is that a fair criticism?I mean, you could look at the broader Kuzma thing and be frustrated by his lack of progress, but the Gordie Howe bridge shouldn't have even been on any table.That's a signed deal, you know what I mean?With no reopening clause.I mean, what do you make of that critique there?

Well, I think the caving on the digital sales tax is a good example.And I remember at the very beginning when Trump first got elected, we were down there talking fentanyl.Remember when all this was about fentanyl?And David McGinty was down there going, oh, we're going to have a fentanyl czar and we're going to do all this stuff.I think you can see that any time you give something without some assurances, and again, his assurances are very, very shallow or hollow for Donald Trump.Any time that you give up, oh, you're upset about the digital sales tax, we'll get rid of it for nothing in return.

So I think with this one, and I agree, you'd rather negotiate from strength rather than weakness.On the Gordie Howe Bridge, at least the sense here is that, yes, we're going to give up some of the profits in the first 15 years, but we're going to get the damn thing open.And so with the digital sales tax, we gave up revenue to the Treasury.that were paid by the big platforms from California, and we've got nothing in return.At least there is a perceived benefit here by getting the bridge open.And so I think, I wouldn't put them in the same categories, but then the question becomes,

know it's hard to it's hard to debate whether or not holding out for something more wrapping Gordie Howe into softwood lumber aluminum steel auto would then get You know, it could be it could be months before we see that bridge open.So I think that the prime minister at least can point to this on the 27th.You know, we'll be here on the 27th here in two weeks.Two weeks, we'll be able to say whether or not the gambit paid off.But to wrap it up into a larger project is higher risk.Right.

And maybe, you know, the opposition, you know, we don't have many places to point to.But if you wrap that up into softwood, you're going to have a lot of people angry in Southwest.You have the truckers angry that you're tying something that wasn't wasn't part of the original Kuzma negotiations or the new tariffs into the bridge.

So Brad's as left as they come.And there was some criticism of Mark Carney in there.So that's that's interesting.But when he says, well, you know, if you tie that up into this, you're going to have referring to the bridge, you tie that up into Kuzma, you're going to have a whole bunch of people angry.And, you know, you may not get this resolved for months.But Brad, Brad, this is what Mark Carney has done from the beginning with the tariffs.

OK.Since the tariffs were put on under Justin Trudeau, in some cases, they've doubled or tripled under Mark Carney because he hasn't done anything.That's the issue.And that waited so long to where he pivoted.Well, we're not going to have a deal anymore.We're just going to negotiate Kuzma.

Meanwhile, they didn't negotiate Kuzma.We heard that they had the framework of a deal back in October, but then Canada walked away from it.And the U .S.is sitting there saying,what? And

And we have business owners who are talking to people on both sides of this, and they are hearing that Canada is putting forward proposals that they know the U .S.is going to reject.So they're not talking in good faith.Mexico is sitting there at the table saying, where's Canada?Why isn't Canada here?

So for him to say, well, you know, like, this is just going to get more people mad.People are already mad, Adam Brad.Business owners across the country, 40 % of business owners have said, you know what, maybe I'll move my manufacturing to the United States.People are already mad.The problem is that all the precedents that Mark Carney has set prior to this, if he hadn't capitulated on every other thing to Donald Trump, maybe all of that is now wrapped up in a broader negotiating position, but he's folded and folded and folded and folded and folded and folded and folded.And he says, well, you know, at least we got something for those.

Wow.That actually sounds really pathetic coming from a liberal commentator and whether he knows it or not.It sounds just as bad as his criticism of Mark Carney for getting rid of the DST for nothing in return.Sounds just as bad as that when you say, well, at least we got something.At least we got something.Is this what Canadians expected from Mark Carney?

Well, he got something.He didn't get nothing.Pretty sure that's not what they elected him on.