CONDAMNÉ À TORT POUR V*OL, LA JUSTICE L’INNOCENTE 23 ANS PLUS TARD (12ème innocenté depuis 1945)

Our guest is the 12th innocent by the French justice since 1945. I can't prove his innocence. I was only a child, 17 years old. They beat me up to make me confess.

They put you in jail.

It's called temporary detention. It was an old stone prison. You have a big iron door that opens. And you arrive and there's a corridor that's... It's dark, it's dirty, it's shabby. The first time I father came, I had trouble facing his gaze.

He said, stop, Farid. If I'm here in front of you, I know you're innocent. In 2022, you'll get a police officer's whistle. He said, I forgot to tell you, we have all the evidence of your innocence. You were guilty for 23 years.

23 years, yes. Your father left after that. 15 days after my innocence, the case was closed. Hello everyone and welcome to Legends. Today, our guest is the 12th innocent by the French justice system since 1945. That is to say, a guilty judge, and a few years later,

indeed, totally innocent by the justice system. There was the story of Patrick Dills, who spent 13 years in prison, even though he had done nothing, which was a case that was very well-mediaized at the time. He had even received, I think, a million euros from the French state as compensation.

This is the 12th. It's Farid El Haeri. Same thing, a case that was not well-mediaized. He was judged guilty of rape because he was accused by a girl before withdrawing

and being judged not guilty, being found innocent 23 years later. He will tell us about his descent to hell when he finds himself in prison, accused by a girl he never spoke to. He will tell us how he found himself

and then his whole family, it makes a whole family around him go dark. He will tell us his story. Farid El Haeri on Legend, 12th person finally found innocent by French justice since 1945 on Legend. Let's go. I introduce myself, Farid El Ahiri. I was accused of a crime I did not commit and I am on Legend.

Well, thank you Farid. Welcome to you. Where do you come from Farid? From the north of France. From the north of France. You are one of the 12 innocent people in France since 1945. That's right. 12 people who were wrongfully accused and officially innocent.

There is a 100% chance that this is false. The accusation was made by a girl you just met, that you had met once, who accused Farid and some of his friends too. You're going to tell us the story, but it's pretty crazy. You're called El Haeri,

and there's a minister called El Haeri too, a minister-delegate. Is that a relationship with you or nothing to do with it? It's my little cousin. It's your little cousin. She was a minister of what? Of the family, of childhood and youth. Okay, so she's your cousin. Yes, exactly. We're going to go back to your story, your journey, because you went from prison to jail.

We'll talk about that later.

Yes.

From prison to jail. So you were imprisoned, you were found guilty at first. And then we'll explain how, why she withdrew, why she said it wasn't true,

and how you were acquitted, but still, 20 years later, during 20 years... 23 years. 23 years, even people were looking at you, you'll explain later, when you were walking in your village with your parents, etc. You were saying, people were looking at you,

for 23 years you were in the newspapers, in pictures, like you were the bad guy, when in fact you did nothing. Like Patrick Dills, I don't know if you remember this story. You must have heard of Patrick Dills. Yes, yes, absolutely. Have you met Patrick Dills?

No, not at all.

He's one of the 12 innocent people in France.

Yes.

Who was sentenced, I think he was in prison for 20 years, if I'm not mistaken, or even more. He was in prison for… I think there was a state financial compensation. Patrick D, I'll put his picture up if you find the name. You come from a family, to explain your background, a mixed family, Moroccan father, your mother is French, and you grew up in a small village, so it's Asbrook, right?

Yes, Asbrook. What did the youth look like in Asbrook, before you explained what happened? To put it simply, there were very few families of foreign origin. We were supposed to be a dozen foreign families. It's the countryside, there's not much to do. There was a room for young people where we did boxing, sports, a little basketball, boxing, etc.

But then it's really a small town, a small countryside, where there's not a lot of things to do for the kids. What did you parents do in life? My dad was a worker, a Solac manufacturer, and my mom worked at Jules Ferry school, like Hadsem. Hadsem is the teacher's assistant. Of course. She's the one who helps the teacher when there are 20 or 30 students, she can't do everything herself,

so she puts them to sleep as a mother. For example, she makes them do the siesta, she changes the diapers, she helps them, all that. So your mom worked, your dad too? Yes, yes, absolutely. And you, what were you like as a teenager? Were you a teenager who did stupid things, rather simple, rather normal? No, I was a good-l the kids in our village.

The only difficulty for us was that we had controls that were not necessarily the same controls for children of French origin or a little more affluent families, because everyone knows each other. In this city, Asbrook, it's a small town where really everyone knows everyone. And indeed, when we left the room, we could be checked once, twice, three times

in ten minutes, whereas sometimes we only left the box to go eat a fries in the city centre of Hazebook. And it's true that, unfortunately, we didn't have the chance to be a little more free, and we always felt like we had done something wrong.

Did you ever deal with the police before being arrested and sent to prison? Did you ever do enough stupid things to be arrested, to get a little warning? I had already been heard for a fight, yes. I had been heard for a fight, indeed, or I had been heard, but at the time it was relatively fast. I had a brother who fell into drugs, who was my big brother. And it's true, from there, when I was being controlled,

he controlled Farid Elhary, but in reality he controlled my brother. That is to say, he always did this amalgam with the family name, A.L.A.R.I.P.AM. And as soon as I gave my name, I was good for a full search. But again, there was a minority of policemen who allowed themselves to...

Well, for me, I didn't even consider them policemen anymore, but like thugs, because they had a methodology that was not at all the kind of police I can know, or that I have known in my life. What was he doing, your brother? Did he sell the drug or did he consume it?

No, he consumed it, unfortunately.

Yeah.

Was he in prison for that? Did he know the police? He was arrested, and indeed, he was suspected in prison.

Yeah.

So when they arrested an LRA, they searched you to see if you were on drugs? Yes, even though they knew that drugs were not my thing. Twice as much, and I can thank my brother because I saw the descent into hell of what drugs can do. So it really never made me want to consume cannabis. And besides, the only time I consumed it was behind bars, behind the bars. In prison?

Yes. So what did you do? What did you want to do as a job? Like when you were a student, before being arrested and sent to prison, what was your project? I was in a training, I was going to be a baker.

So I had started a qualification contract. I had done my trial period, everything went well. And I had to start baking right away. But it was stopped, unfortunately, following a call I got where I had to introduce myself to the police.

So what year was that? We are in 1999. 1999, you are... I'm 17. You're 17, you're at home, you're studying, and you get a call from the police station.

So, at first, you think it's a hoax, or you think... No, I'm thinking, I don't really see why, but then I think, my mom actually explains to them that she won't be able to be present, and my dad doesn't have any more, and she asks to have more information. And by the way, she asks, in all honesty, if it wasn't for my brother. They are nice when they call you?

Very nice. And they reassure my parents, where they say to my mother, don't worry, if he doesn't come tomorrow, he can come today, or Tuesday, or Wednesday, there's nothing to rush. But if he comes, he'll have to go for an hour to break everything, and then he leaves without any problem. And so from there, my mother tells me, listen Farid, are you able to go alone?

I work, and you come right after to join me at school, and you will explain to me. I said, no problem mom, I will go directly tomorrow morning at 8 o'clock. So... We are in 99.

We are in 99. I am 17 years old. I left with my mother. My mother went to work at the Jules Ferry school. And I went to the police station in Asbouk. And when I arrived, I took some chocolate bread on the way. So I'm not worried. I still have my job at the time.

I arrive really calm. And the police officers notice me and tell me, you came with breakfast, etc. So, no aggressiveness at all. You weren't even stressed?

No, I wasn't worried at all, I left calm. And when I arrived, I introduced myself, OK, sit down, there's a lady and a gentleman, really cool, I don't feel the wind turning, they don't give me an impression that could let me predict what's going to happen to me. Oh yeah?

No, not at all.

So there are two? There are two. And then he starts telling me, listen Farid, we're going to ask you a few questions. Okay, go ahead. Did you think it was about your brother at that moment? Well, I think at that moment I was not even thinking about anything.

I said to myself, I don't see anything, so I said to myself, go ahead, quickly ask me your questions and I'm off. In my head I thought, they said there was enough for an hour, I'm going to answer their questions and then I'm going to see my mother to explain to her what was going on. There were no cell phones at the time.

There were no cell phones. 1999, that's another time, it's crazy, it's crazy. There was internet, almost, the beginning of internet, but... But we didn't have internet. And so, they start asking me questions that are... My name, so they want to confirm my identity,

first name, my parents, my brother, my other brother, my mother... And so on, lots of little questions. What do I do? What do I like? So I answer all these questions. It lasts a while, when they're relatively cool with me. Then at some point I tell them, well, listen, it's beautiful.

Great. The police officer said, what are you talking about? And it's true that I still had this ease to bounce back and assert myself where I said, well, listen,

it's nice and I'm leaving. And the police officer said, no, wait, that's not how it's going to go. So I don't understand. And then I see a gesture that he's starting to shut himself in where he tells me, ok, you're placed

in custody I don't understand because he was super cool, now he's getting mean where he tells me, ok, we're going to tell you a story you listen to it and then we'll tell you what to do

ok, so he puts me in custody so he notifies me that I'm in custody from this time on. And before, they only asked you questions about the civil state? Yes, questions that were useless. At least for me at the time, they were useless.

I didn't understand, but I said to myself, I'm going to answer their questions. And so from there, they tell me, listen, we're going to tell you a story. Okay, and they tell you a story. Okay, and he tells me a story. And so it's the story of a boy

who goes out with a girl and with this girl they have sexual intercourse. And he tells me, this girl at some point, she says that she wasn't consenting. Okay,

I'm still there, I look, I don't understand, I say to myself, what the hell, where is he going to come from with his story? And he tells me, this boy, if we were to give him advice, he should say that, in fact, it was wanted, it was agreed upon, it's word for word.

Until then, I listen, it's good, it's beautiful, but I listen without really realizing what they're saying.

I'm really not even in the story of assault or rape, I'm... I don't even know what they're saying.

I'm not even in the story of assault or rape. And so I let them finish, etc. And then at the end they tell me, what do you think? You don't understand what they're saying? Not at all. I tell them, I think it's a story, it's beautiful, but I don't understand. He says, if the young man says it's word for word,

he's not going to jail, he's going home. I said, well, that's a good story, but I don't see what you're trying to say. And at that moment, I really didn't have any worries. Really, not at all. I even have a smile that I shouldn't have,

because maybe he didn't like me. Yeah, maybe they didn't like you. They thought you were the... I was fooling around. And I smile, or they tell me... Well, they told me in the letters, they wrote, Farid had an insolent look.

I tell them, you're telling me a story, it's beautiful, but I... I have nothing to do with this story, so I don't understand. And they tell me, at some point, this boy is you. I say, this boy is me. And then, deep inside me, I know I never had a relationship with a girl, so in reality...

You never had a relationship with a girl? No, I never had a relationship. You were older. I was older. Yeah, you were older. I was older. Much easier to say today than at the age of 17.

Did you tell them? Yes, I told them. I'm going to get into the heart of the matter. You'll see how it happened, or I should have said it. Today I have no complex to talk about anything and everything, but at the age of 17 I was still a very reserved child.

At home we didn't talk about sex, etc. So at 17 we still have a little boy, even if behind that smile, where we want to make big moves, we're just a simple little child, a little... Fragile. Fragile, and then...

To his parents, what. Yes, that's it, we're still a baby. And I told him, wait, it's beautiful, great, but I'm going to go. And I had this problem of always telling them, I'm going to go. And so it annoyed them so much, they tell me, no, you didn't understand, you're on guard duty.

OK. Then they leave, so they leave me there, we'll give you 5-6 minutes of reflection, etc. OK. Then I say to myself, but shit, what's going on? I'm starting to think something's wrong, where are they getting it from? And at some point I tell them, it's simple,

you have to make a mistake. And at first I tell myself, it's an identity error. So, calmly, I tell myself, call the person, you bring her back, she'll see me. She'll see it's not'll see it's not me, it's not me,

and I'll go home. But without even... I didn't have any aggressiveness at that moment, to say, well, I was wrongly accused, because for me it was a mistake of identity. The police officer said, well, listen, it's you,

we know it's you, we want to help you, you say it's you, you go to jail. I... I mean, I thought to myself, it's crazy. It's you, you don't go to jail, it's not you, you go to jail.

So I...

Yeah, it's not... No, it's not logical.

It's inconsistent.

Say it's you and you go out. It's crazy. I thought, there's something wrong. Anyway, from the age of 17, I thought, you did something, and you get nothing. But today I've understood that it's true.

Sometimes people do, and they get nothing. And those who didn't do it, go to jail. That's my case. So, I tell them... It happens, I hope, not too often. Not too often, but there are already 12 known cases. And I think that with all the convictions, 12 cases,

I wouldn't want to question justice, but in any case, in my opinion, I think that justice is at work. There are more, you mean? In prison, we'll talk about it later, but I imagine that you, we'll talk about it later, but you had to tell people it wasn't you, and no one had to believe you. No one believed me, because everyone is innocent in prison. Everyone says it's not true?

Everyone. There are very few. The real thugs I've met, the hooligans, the hooligans had this charisma of saying, we did it. They assumed. They were people...

They claimed.

Yeah.

They had no problem. They didn't have a problem, they assumed, they played, they got caught, that's them. After that, the rest, the players, oh no, it's not us, it's never us. And so, inevitably, it can pose problems for justice, because it's never anyone. At some point, well, when you're caught, you're caught. Except that I, I told them, wait, I'm not there, and so at some point I play the card. You say, I'd like to have it. I say, listen, bring it back to me, you'll see, it's not me, I'm sure, etc.

Okay. And then he invites me, do you want a coffee? I say, I don't drink coffee, a glass of water, a chocolate, etc. I say yes. And in fact, at the time, I didn't know the 100-year-old child. They brought me back to a room. I took my glass of water, I drank my glass of water, it took five minutes to break everything. And they brought me back to the office again, where they told me, well, it's good, it's you.

Where is she? Where is the person? She saw you with a Vitz Phanta, it's you. I look at them, I tell them, don't always interest me, because Icentin, it's you. I look at her and say, you're always interesting to me, because I think she's lying. She's not there. For me, I think, since the beginning, they've been telling me... You didn't do anything, you know that.

She can't say it's me, it's not me. She says, she recognized you're lying, you're liars, but I tell him it's not me. And in fact, in the problem of saying it's not me, what they say is that it's him. She said it's him. So that's it, I tell him, wait, I want to see the person physically in front of me

and that they say in my eyes that I did what you're saying, to attack or I don't know what, because I didn't really have the definition of what they were blaming me for. They didn't say rape or assault, etc. It was pretty vague.

You never spoke to this girl, right? I never spoke to her. And by the way, at the time, I don't know who she is yet. Because I don't know her identity. They don't even tell you who she is yet, because I don't know her identity. They don't even tell you who she is. No, they don't tell me who she is. And you were older at the time, you never had a relationship. I never had a sexual relationship.

And they tell me, listen, we gave you the advice, think about it, say that you had a relationship with this girl, that this girl wanted, word against word, you go home, everyone has their own way. And they leave. And so they leave me alone like that. I think it's their... Their reflection. Yeah, it's their methodology for...

Your brain starts to think, etc. But I stay calm. I stay calm and smiling. Which annoys them a lot, because at some point, they play good and bad.

Because they adapt strategies, where the lady becomes mean, the man becomes nice, and then... Good cop, bad cop. Nice cop, bad cop. Exactly.

Or there's one who comes and puts pressure on you, who puts pressure on you, who puts pressure on you, where at some point you're almost saying to yourself, shit, I missed a check. Did I do something? I didn't do anything.

I don't know.

At some point... You wondered if you were crazy? No, I was thinking, what is he telling me? Did I have a problem? Because, again, I'm not in... I don't have the...

the act of life, you know? I don't know... what I'm really, really doing. When will they tell you that this girl is called this? After a few hours. Really a few hours. And at some point I tell them, I don't understand, call my parents. Because I start to think, wait, it's been hours, my mother must be worried.

I haven't been to see her. And she tells me, it's not you who will dictate and tell us what to do. I say, wait, I have nothing to do here, I have nothing to do with it, I don't know who you are talking to, your story is illogical, I have no knowledge, and once again, always with my relatively comfortable air,

a little too sure of yourself, maybe, at this point, really crazy. I mean, at one point, the policeman tells me, listen kid, you're going to end up in prison, that's for sure. And then, when he takes pictures of people, of my daughter, that we know are incarcerated, he says, where is he? I say, I think he must be incarcerated.

And him? I think it's the same. I say, you take out these sheets of people, put them where you're going to end up. So their strategy is to put me under threat, to scare me with prison. I will always remember that moment.

You have to know that they are good people too because they think you're a bastard.

Yes.

At that moment.

Yes, yes.

Everyone... I am even more complex than that. I understand it today because I have the whole file and I studied it. But at the time it was even more complex than that. I learned in 2022, when I got my file, that my grandfather was mayor of my city for 21 years. My father was the number one supplier for the French Army's socks.

And they have a name that means an influential family in my city. So, if I had done the rapprochement back then, I would have said to myself, OK, I understand why the police are going all out today. In fact, my word is worth nothing. They don't even try to know if it's true or not.

They say to themselves, the girl from Intel said it, so she did it. So, at some point, the hours go by, I... The hours go by, I have to remember that I'm only 17. And so at some point they tell me, listen Farid, come on, relax, calm down, because they realize that it doesn't work too well with the pressure. And yet, deep down, all I want is to cry,

and if my mother was there, it's to cover her arms. Because I'm only 17. And I don't want to show them that, because I tell myself, Farid, be careful, if you show them your weakness, they will attack you and you're done. Because I'm starting to understand that there's something wrong and that they need you as a culprit.

I started to understand. And so I stay on my line of conduct. I ask to have a doctor. They don't listen. And at some point, they don't in the guardhouse, which was a pretty simple guardhouse, where they put me in the jails,

in the gendarmerie, it's really...

Underground, yeah.

Yeah, underground, it's... to try, I think, to play on the morale, or at least to make me crack. So I go there for a few hours, I wait. It's true that when you're locked up in there, your brain thinks three times faster. And then you say, wait, they told me I'm going to jail,

wait, they made me see him in jail, and him in jail, and him. So the panic starts to invade you. And then I talk to him and I say, wait, explain to me well, I have to understand, what are you clearly blaming me for? What's wrong with me, because I really didn't do anything. So they get back at me,

we start talking again, they play nice cop again, etc. And then I understand, they start telling me, well, listen, it's an assault, etc. I don't understand anymore, it's not possible. You fall for it.

I'm crying and at the same time I'm scared, I want to cry, I'm full of emotions, I'm angry, everything is going through me. And I tell myself, Farid, come on, that's it, I'm a very shy person, I'm reserved, etc. And I tell him, well, I tell him, it's not possible anyway. And how is that not possible? I told him I'm a virgin. And I said that with such a shyness, that if I could have locked myself in a hole, I would have. And what they have better to do is to make fun of me.

Sorry for the terms, but they clearly tell me, they call their colleagues, they tell the Arab what he says, he's still a virgin, etc. And I go through with trying to be polite. And it's true that, like at home, we didn't talk about sexuality. I didn't think about whether it was visible or not.

I thought, well, there might be a way to do something about it. Yes, you're still with your weapons, so to speak. I don't have too many weapons, so I thought... And once again, I invite someone to prove that he's innocent. It's really hard. It's easier... When you've done something, you know you can delegate. It's easier to accuse than to prove that you're innocent.

The presumption of innocence is in favor of the person who is accused. It's up to them to prove that you're guilty, and not up to you to prove that you're innocent. Because to prove it... I mean, except for saying, I didn't do it, I don't see what you can say. In the US it's the opposite, you're presumed guilty. They think you're innocent.

We're presumed innocent, but in reality, today, the court and the popular court are immediately guilty. Immediately accused. So from there, I find myself in jail again, it must be 11pm. My lawyer arrives,

so 8am, 11pm, it's a lawyer who's been put in charge, where he says, well, here are the facts that are being reproached against you, etc. A lawyer who's been put in charge, sorry, in France, it's someone who, sometimes, you don't pay, I think, it's someone who's put you in by the state, because you have to defend yourself.

Not necessarily. They send you a lawyer, but they still look at the pay level. If you have money, you pay. But you didn't choose the lawyer. But you didn't choose the lawyer because you didn't know... So you send someone who's coming. And as a lawyer, you don't get the best one.

I have nothing against them. But I mean, you get the one who's there. It could be a young person who just started or there's no... It's not the best, I mean... So you've been a police officer since 8am, it's 11pm, a man comes in, is it a man? It's a lady.

A lady, a lawyer, and what does she say? She says, here you are, Mr. Ellari, here are the facts that have been criticized, etc. What do you have to say? I say, listen, it's not me. Okay... OK, but she herself, I think,

does she believe me, does she not believe me, does she not know me?

She said, well, listen, great, what can I do for you? I said, well, listen, try to tell my parents. OK, I'll tell my parents. It'll last 15 minutes. Well, listen, Mr. Larry, see you tomorrow. In reality, I'm there in the jail, I'm telling myself, but it's this conspiracy? Who are you sending me?

She didn't do anything, I thought I was sent to the police station, she told me, there's nothing, the file is empty, you're getting out... Anyway, I didn't know the system, so I told myself... You're going to spend the night in prison? Oh yeah, I spend the night in custody.

But a few minutes later, my big brother is coming home. And when I see my big brother going down to the jail with the police,

but I understood it later. At first, I was afraid for him.

Because I thought, my big brother, he's the biggest, more right-wing than him, you die. Ah, he's not the one with the problems?

No, no, no.

There's another one?

He's... You have two brothers? He's a good guy, he's square, he's always worked, he... He didn't do the right thing. Yeah, yeah, he didn't do the right thing. And he comes in and... I see him and I say, what are you doing here? I say, you're in too. I'm kidding, but I was really scared for my brother.

Because I was thinking, what is this? You say, there's a plot on the leaf. And in fact, my big brother, with the anger he has, he tells me, that's enough, and he gives me a slap. Now he tells me, they told me you did a little mistake. You sign the sheet, as if it were you, and you go out. I tell him, you know what they blame me for? Because in fact, the smart ones had been, I found out later in my file,

they had been told to my big brother, I wanted to see what was going on. My mother sent him and... They told him you didn't do anything serious, you have to sign. They told him, your brother did a little mistake, word for word, you tell him to sign, he'll come back to you. You have my word. My father-in-law came down, sent me a jiffle,

told me, you did a little mistake, you have to stop when you do it, you take responsibility. We'll talk about it later, but what you did, you did it. That's how it is, Farid. And it's true that for us, whether it's me, my brother, or Christian, you do it, you take responsibility, you pay. And then you learn your lesson. And my brother, when I told him, wait, he told me...

Your big brother is Christian?

Yeah. I said, Christian, he's accusing me of rape. Wow. He said, no, no, Farid, stop, stop everything. He said, they didn't tell me that, don't talk anymore, I'm going to see the parents. The policeman opened the bag, my brother said, you're completely crazy, you're saying that my little brother, my brother never in his life

is able to do something like that, but who accuses him of such a thing? They threw him out. They said... And they put his word in doubt on the day of the trial in 2003, when my brother testified, and the police said, no, it's not possible, Mr. Larré, we can't have someone get out on a rape. It's strictly forbidden.

And my brother said, well, wait, I'm the only one. When I say something, it's a reality. You made me get out, and you encouraged me to tell my brother that to do it. And they always said no. And my brother still does it today. I still have it in my throat because I never lied. It's annoying. When they tell you you lied, it's like a werewolf. When you're not a werewolf, you're a werewolf.

That's the only thing that's annoying. So me and my brother, we always have this little anecdote where I tell him, you see, what does it do? To be accused of it. I told him, how many times did I tell him it wasn't me? Now you know what it is. And so, indeed, from that point on, the next morning, they don't let me sleep.

They don't let me sleep, because they want to play with fatigue. And I see that it's starting to annoy them a lot. Their attitude, their nervousness, they're tired, because in reality, they don't sleep, or very little. I think of the policemen, who greet me but don't take sides. I tell myself, they are not all bad, I just fell on the wrong team at the time.

In the morning they tell me, Mr. Larry, we have to disperse you in front of the police station, since you are underage, to have the ball. Either we get you out or you're given 24 hours. So, they note me down, they fire me, again without telling my mother,

because I'm not an attorney, and we take the road from Asboun to Tinkerque. And there, all along the road, I was like, I'm going to suffer. I'm like, yeah, the judge will see that nothing is going well. It's an Asbuk judge. Well, it's Asbuk, everyone knows each other.

They're having their soup. I should be outside after. And you still haven't seen the girl? No. Face to face? No, no, no. Do you know who she is at this moment?

No. Still not? And so we get to the court. I get to the court. Judge of instruction. I arrive at the court, I have the instructions, hello, hello Mr. Larry, I have the instructions, so he introduces himself, the facts that are being reproached to you,

I see a... I feel an aggressiveness. But not necessarily verbal, but when he looks at me, he looks at me with disgust, with... Well, are you going to admit it, Mr. Larry? I say, wait, Mr. Judge, I have nothing to do with it, it's not me.

Don't confess. I'm extending my 24-hour life sentence. I'm trying, as hard as I can, to express myself. But you're getting on their nerves, you're saying it. Yes, I'm getting on their nerves sometimes. I tell them, wait, be serious, it's not me. I really have nothing to do with this story. I ask to see the person. Mr. Larry, you're leaving.

And it's very short. They give me a few minutes to... Anyway, you'll end up confessing, Mr. Larry. And so I leave with the police, the police, hop, get in the car, and they tell me, did you see? We warned you.

They say it's you, Edward. And they stay like that with this psychological side, where we try to work. And with fatigue, I admit that at some point I said to myself, fuck, wouldn't I say it's me? Because in fact, you don't want to get out of there anymore. Because it really starts to build its pattern.

In fact, fatigue is drunkenness. You have the impression of being half-deconnected from reality. I was so... When you slept very little, you had the impression of having a gut feeling, while you didn't sometimes. Sick, there's something that's not going to react to your body, etc. And I have this awareness of saying,

well, you're completely insane, because I'm talking to myself at times. It means that at some point, I'm going crazy. I say to myself, Farid, it's not you, what are you talking about? I said, maybe I'll have more means to defend myself when I'm out. Fuck. And I decide not to do it. I said, no, stay focused, you have nothing to do with it, ask for a confrontation. So we arrive at the police station, and I see that everything is accelerating,

the calls, the calls, I see them answering the phone, I don't know who, what, how, but I see that everything is accelerating. And then, the police officer at the time, he noticed me in the back, because I was a little angry. You're a police officer in Marquet. Yes, yes. Why are you a police officer?

At one point, the police officer, I was going to come back to that, he felt that I was not afraid. In any case, it's the pressure that I give, and I felt that I wasn't afraid. At least, that's the impression I wanted to give. I was terrified, really terrified. I thought it was going to be long, I didn't have my mother, I didn't see my father. I was afraid for my brother the day before.

I felt that the judge at the hearing wanted my skin. So I was really terrified. And I received a gun whistle from the police. I'm not saying that it happens to everyone, but it happens. And I really needed to talk about it. There are overflows within the police force,

at least for me, there were overflows on the police at the time. Or they went beyond the limits, because I was only a child, I was only 17. Their strategy, after trying the psychological side, fear, influence, they hit me to make me confess. They hit me, a real slap, where I'm a little out of it and I fall, and... where... I have a tear, but at the same time I hold it back

because I don't want her to fall, and I don't want to give them that chance to... to show them a weakness. I still had that strength at the time to tell myself, it's okay Farid, it's nothing, you've already taken it,

that's all. And he tells me, now it's enough, you're going to confess. You have to confess, it's you, we know it's you, we don't care, you say it's you. But I say, I'll never say it's me. You can hit me, beat me, slaughter me, you can do whatever you want. And besides, it's true that I don't even know where I got this strength and this division. What I tell them, it reassures me, is that you have nothing.

You come to hit me, to beat me. The last time she comes, she says, no, it's going to be fine, there are some past the limits, la la la la la. And besides, represent the law, who tell their colleagues,

unfortunately they don't arrest them, but they tell them, be careful, you're crossing the line, etc. And I hear, yeah, but it's a murderer, there was the daughter of a certain someone, etc. But I didn't know the daughter of a certain someone was this family, actually.

Who had at least... the girl was from this family. It wasn't the girl who was being accused. So you're going to arrest this policeman? So he's hitting me, he's beating me, he's pushing me. They do what they have to do, at least in their method. There's the famous helmet thing, where they put a helmet on you and stab you in the back.

They do that?

Yes, yes. But I've seen other people doing it during the police station. During the police station, there were people in the police station. I thought, yes, there are methods. I don't want to put everyone in... Of course, of course.

You have good and bad people. Yes, there are good and bad people, but you really have to know that there are people who represent the law who have no place to be where they are. For me, they are thugs, at least their methodology is thugs' methodology. They wanted to make me confess, so did they really imagine that it was me? And they said, well, we're going to get him fired, too bad, he did something so atrocious. He deserves a slap, yeah, yeah, that's what he...

I can hear him. But when I reread the trials, I realize that it was more about giving someone a high-ranking position. So there, yeah, I can't understand them, because I think that deep down they knew that I had done nothing,

because in any case the case was totally wrong. And worse, when they told me about July, because they were giving me dates, I started asking questions. Wait, but when did you hit him? You said you hit a cop, what was that? I didn't hit him, I threw the mug at him. At some point.

In fact, they hit me so hard that a few hours later, I told them, please take my handcuffs off anymore. I was aware that I was angry with them. And they said, what do you mean? I said, don't take my handcuffs off anymore. You hit me, I give you the advice, don't take my handcuffs off anymore.

I know I'm angry, it's been hours and hours, I've been here for more than 24 hours, or I'm being mistreated, or psychologically, we try to put something on their back, or... I'm in a fusion of emotions, actually.

At the age of 17, it's very difficult, and I couldn't understand it, but... I tell you, I want to cry, I want to scream, I want to break, or I kick my hands, I can't take it anymore, I'm out of breath, and they're hitting me. So at some point I tell them, don't...

And it's true that at some point, they give me a cup, and it turns, and I throw the cup away. But I throw it away to cheat him. You see, I wanted to hit him in the head, he would have hit me in the head. And besides, when I go back to the judge, I said to him, he said,

Mr. Larry, what's wrong? You look a bit chubby. I said, chubby? I'm just chuffing, Mr. Judge. Mr. Larry, now you're going to find a strategy to say that the officers are hitting? I said, yes, look, I threw a cup. Stop being so... And you see,

because I tell myself, I'm telling the truth, they hit me, I threw a cup, it's a real reality. But they don't take it seriously, as if it wasn't very serious, all that. Everything that was happening there, it wasn't very serious, it was the result. It was an accusation, a result, 20 results. I thought, shit, I'm a bit like him. I was singing... It wasn't in your favor. No, it wasn't good, it felt bad. So I find myself in...

in this period where I think, Farid, we need to ask a lot of questions. Or whatever. And then they tell me, July 98. I'm like, wow. I called my mom, July 98, I was in Morocco. It's the World Cup. July 1998, it's the final.

But I'm in Morocco. I said to myself, yes, I have my passport. And so I regain energy, and I see that they have this problem.

How so?

So they contact my mom. My mom comes back, puts the passport back, and by the way, it back in the file. With the stamps to show that you weren't in France. Yes. So you think it's all good? I'm outside. I'm really going to go.

I'm breathing. But I see them. Same. Right, left, right, left, left, right. And then, an hour goes by.

You didn't see your mother since the beginning? Yes, I saw her. She came the next day. I saw my mother the next day. In fact, she came to the police station, she introduced herself, she said, here I am, I came to see my son. They saw my mother, and in fact, once again, they kept the envelope.

That is to say? The typology of my mother. My mother was blond with blue eyes was French, with blue eyes. French origin? French origin. And the police officer said,

no, no, it's not here, we only have one, it's not him, go to the Dasbruck police station. My mother goes to the Dasbruck police station. The Dasbruck police station, he says, wait, it's not at home, but we'll find out. Well, no, there's a police station. And in fact, when they come back, my mother comes back to the police station.

And so she sees me, she sees me because you had the corridor like that. And you saw him. She says, yes, it's my son. And the police officer says, oh, but what a shame, madam. Oh, you're married to an Arab. She started to collapse and cry, and I was so angry. I wanted to scream, but I didn't cry. Because you feed them.

You're going to feed them. And I was a bit insulting, or I insulted them a bit. I crossed the line, because I insulted them. I saw my mother in distress. But did you tell your mother it was wrong? Yes, yes.

She believes you? My mother knows me, she made me. My mother knows me, she knew my friends, my friends who came to my house. We had a house with a garden, the young people from the blogs came, the girls, the friends came. Some of them came to see my mother to say, no Farid, it's impossible. People knew me, I'm not a guy who...

I was maybe a little dumb sometimes because I was annoying, etc. But never in any case did I bother a girl or I was mistreated by a girl. It was really not my way of being. My mother knew me, I think we know what we are capable of doing and not doing. After you also have the impression that when there are guys who get arrested, it's always the but no, my son was nice, you see, so there is also that. Yes, but the only difference between my father and and mother, we shouldn't forget one thing, my father...

I'll give you an anecdote. Once I had a fight with a boy who was much taller than me, I was very young. And we had done boxing, etc. We had done sports, so we had a fight. And the parents came to see my dad. And my dad said,

here is your son, he had a fight with my son, here is what happened, etc. My father said, calm down, I'm just going to see my son and I'll come back to you. If my son did it, he'll say it. And we had such respect, at least our father really had us... My father once told me, Paris, if you lie, you'll lie to me only once.

But if you lie to me once, I'll never believe you again. And he told us that since we were very young. And I tell my kids exactly the same thing. Because the day you lose your parents' trust, you lose everything. And today, to have lost my father and my mother, I know what I'm talking about. So my father, when he saw me, he said,

Farid, did you do it? He knew I was going to answer the question. Unlike my brother Karim. And then my father said, if I ask Farid a question, I'm sure he'll be 100% right, 80% but there was the drug vice, my brother, so obviously...

It was less reliable.

Less reliable. And... my father, my mother said, wait, I'm going to ask my son a question, let me talk to him. But he didn't even give him the right to talk to me when I was a minor. I mean,

he didn't want to. I think their methodology was also not to let me see my family so that I would be more and more isolated. And that I would end up cracking. That means that I would say to myself, if I say it's me, I want to see my mother. Because when my mother was there,

she would say, Sine, come out.

No.

Then there were a lot of things. Then they did the auditions. They hit me and said, do you recognize me? No. He asked me, do you want a glass of water? I left, and when I came back, I had it in both positions, black on white, it was written, Stine said, get out.

I said, I'm going to read. Why are you going to read? We only got back what you said. I said, I'm going to read, it's certain. I'm going to read everything. And when I read again, it was written, I admit I wrote it.

I'm a bit confused. They had the intelligence to put it in the report, saying that Mr. Larry was annoyed by wanting to reread his statements. When I reread it, I thought, you're crazy, I'm not going to sign that. But it's true that at some point, with 24 hours, 48 hours of fatigue,

you can manage to say, I'm signing this sheet. And there you said you were in front of the judge, they're going to send you, they're going to incarcerate you, it's called temporary detention. And that's where you're going to go, to the Loss prison, so it's towards Lille, right? Yes, it was one of the oldest prisons. And it's a minor prison, not a major one? There are minor, major, so the convicts and the pre-trial.

So you're in the minor district, still in the 19th century, you were sent on February 5, 1999, you're told to go there, but it's waiting for your judgment,

so you don't have a judgment yet.

I'm in the depot. In fact, the judge, when... Again, the police say, well, the 48 hours stop, we go back to the judge to find out what he's doing. Is he leaving me on temporary leave? Or is he condemning me?

He condemns me or imprisons me. The police had already prepared a kind of strategy. I'm telling you, they were malicious. Because already in my city, they had me pass by in the corners where we went, with the windows open, in front of the young people I was hanging out with, etc. So I said to them, why are you showing me like that?

But I understood afterwards, with time. In fact, they already wanted to prepare the aftermath to scare any accomplices they manipulated afterwards. And so I come to the judge and he says, Mr. Larry, do you confess or not? I said, Mr. Judge, I swear it's not me,

I gave my passport, Mr. Judge, look, my mom dropped it off, you kept it, I was in Morocco, I swear it's not me. And I think that's one of the only times I crack up or cry. My mom's not there, I cry crying, I'm crying, I'm crying.

In front of the judge? Yes, yes, I swear, I swear, it's not me. And I say, I've done bullshit in my life. I can say everything I did, for example, wrong. It was as if I was in front of a priest, where I wanted to confess. I swear, but I didn't do that, it. Elary, we're going to fire you.

You'll be put on a detention at Aridlos' house. And it'll give you time to think. You'll be put in the worst prison. So he confirms to me that it's a very hard, hard prison. And he says, I'll let you imagine for life, Mr. Elary. And so it's true that it starts to tell me,

fuck, Farid, wow. I said, fuck, I'm going to jail, no, it's a nightmare. Yeah, I said, no, I'm going to jail. And then, I think your brain, so that you don't tilt, so that you don't un-check, it sends you an information, it tries to reassure you,

saying, well, they're trying. So they let you have a little bit of silk. So two days before, you didn't have chocolate, you were sure? Oh yeah, it was over. By the way, they gave me some ham croque-monsieur as a keeper. That way I was sure not to eat them. They told me, take the ham off, eat the croque-monsieur with cheese. So it had been two days, I hadn't eaten, I was exhausted, I was exhausted, I no, come on. And then we went back to the police station in Asbouk.

They called my parents. My mother came with a bag. And it was very hard because my mother said, where are you going Farid? And then I see her in distress, crying, crying. My big brother who is there, who is helpless. What can we do for you, Farid?

I said nothing, nothing. And I'm there holding back my tears. I said, don't worry, mom, in 48 hours I'll be out. I didn't know, but at that moment, that's the only thing I can say with the little strength I have left.

I really have my mother who sees her mother sees her 17-year-old son and she puts this bag back on me. I take the bag and I try to hold on. My brother is in his car, he looks at me and he follows me. On the highway, I look at him like that,

I'm fascinated, I let go. It's atrocious to see my mother in there, she's melting. I think he doesn't know what to do, I'm going to do this, I'm going to do that, I'm going to let it go. It's atrocious, I see my mother in there, melting. And I think he doesn't know what to do, so he's trying to follow me. And so I get to this famous bone prison, where it was an old stone prison,

of memories, where you have a big iron door that opens, and you get there and there's a corridor that's... And the police said, you know what they did to the old man? I said, I didn't steal anything, I didn't do anything, it's not me, I won't stop telling you. And he said, you're going to get caught too. So it's true that you're sure you don't want to admit it.

They're still in... Until the end. Because you're not alone, you're with friends. With three people. That you alone, you're with friends. Yeah, with three people. That you know, for once. Real friends.

But they never told me about them. I learned about them later. Up to now, we don't talk about them. I'm told... I arrive in front of the famous Gloss prison, where it's atrocious. You arrive, it's dark, it's dirty, it's crumpled. People throw their food out the window. The rows are a mess, it's so...

The contrast is... Yeah, it's dissonant, it's shocking. Yeah, it's horrible. And there's this famous corridor, which is super long, which was unbreakable at the time, at any rate, before you got to the peak, and I feel like I'm a spectator of all this.

I'm like, what am I doing here? And even with the fatigue, I would have said I was out of my body. I had a sensation that was moving, it was bubbling, and the information was coming in, but...

I thought, I'm going to wake up, it's not possible. A nightmare woke me up. I have to wake up. it's not possible, a nightmare woke me up. I have to wake up. And then I arrive in front of the guards and the police say, well, it's a burnt head, they already announce the color. I said, wait, I'm not a burnt head, I didn't do anything.

And in fact, fortunately, the guards, and I can understand them, they are laughing. Oh, you too? Because everyone says to them, I swear, it's not me. And it makes them laugh. And even today,

with the height, I'm a man, I'm a father, etc. I tell myself, maybe I would have made the same mistake. Even if you have to stay in your place. I think they signed, they swore an oath. But that's it, they're still human beings. And when they learn you're here for a rape,

well...

I don't think I would have done so much. So it's true that... And that was the beginning of a nightmare. How long are you going to stay in this prison? I'm staying here for about 5-6 months. Until you're 18?

And how is it going to go? Are you going to the court? Well, the first day, you're in your privacy, because when you arrive, it's naked. Their terms, their words. Or the supervisors, there's a supervisor who's there, there's three supervisors who are there, they tell me, well, the packing is coming, you put your things there, take off your clothes, your towel, you have a wet towel, you have a... Oh yeah, you have to take them off, they'll steal them from you.

I said, no, no, I'll keep everything. I said, I'll never put your towel there. Because he took out a Mikyo towel, I think, blue souvenir, Kawe, three times too big for me. He said, well, it's up to you, if you want to get kicked out, I'm serious, it's a different story. I'm being honest, with all the anger and rage I have inside me,

it's going to be hard to take anything from me. And it's true that I had this capacity to... I had confidence in myself. Did they kick you out? They tried. Still?

Yes, they tried. It's complicated. It was complicated for them. Why? Because they get to several at the same time? Yes, yes. In fact, already the first day I told them I was coming, so naked. So naked, I don't want to get naked. And there's a lady, so I say, wait,

so I take off my sneakers, my socks, and I stay in underwear. And it's an anecdote, because the waiter tells me, well, you don't understand what's in a naked? I say, fuck. So I put on my hair, but I hide my private parts. He says, yeah, but your hand. I saw his hand.

He says, the other one. I do it like this, I always hide my part. You change hands. He says, you didn't understand what? I say, okay, you're perverts. How do you say? And they're not going to take it well, because they're just a bunch of perverts. I said, you're perverts, you're watching my games,

because for them, I'm not guilty, for me, I'm innocent. And then the beginning of the cold starts, because I didn't know, he said, you're going to get out. What is this? So at 17, you have a child, you're naked in front of several people, in a dirty, dirty prison,

and they ask you to hold your leg. It was like, I said to myself, what are they doing to you? All of you!

I said, why all of you?

I asked them, I said, why do you want me to hold all of you? To see if you put anything in your behind. Oh! I said, wait, so today I would have answered, it's not a safe, my ass.

But...

At 17, I'm...

And then you're scared. Because some people make stuff go in the... Yes, yes, but I understood afterwards. I understood very quickly, then they all go in. I even saw spectacular stuff that went in. But...

Meaning? There are people who make things bigger than we can imagine. And what do you do with your ass? Things as big as a can of coke. That's not true. Yes, yes, yes, there are people who are spectacular. They're magicians, they call us magicians in prison.

They make things that... Like a phone? We didn't have a phone.

Oh yes, that's true.

But they make boxes full of drugs. Because, yeah, that's true. But they were filling boxes with drugs. Because, once again, that's where I discovered it. I thought, fuck, it's much easier to find drugs inside than outside. Oh my god! And that's not a myth. I mean, the supervisors who have a little self-esteem,

they know very well that what they need is peace.

I mean,

I remember when the guys didn't have their stuff, their drugs, they were not comfortable, it was a carnage, it was a zoo. In fact, they let a little shit in, so at least it smokes, it relaxes. It relaxes and during that time there is less shit. And I can understand them because they are in a prison environment. It's surveillance.

There are some very good, there are some very bad, like in everything, but these supervisors are... they're hard-working, they're here all day. And besides, I think some of them are going crazy, they're becoming mean, they're becoming thugs, because they're in the thug's daily life. I think that's it. They're getting worse than before, right?

Oh yeah, yeah. There are people, I'm sure, who have become really good people, and in the end, but they became little kings. We had already bought some things at the time from the servants. And it was a reality. You pay the toll. When it was Christmas presents, you didn't want them to look at your Christmas presents,

you give them a little something and your package goes through. Today, when I hear, because sometimes it makes me laugh, I see that it is our politicians, and then the prisons, and we're going to do this, we're going to do that, but they know very well that their prison won't last. At some point, if you let them,

they'll put places in cages. So, at the time, when you arrive in the Los prison, there are 542 seats, there are more than 1000 people in it, so it's safe, you know. There's a lot of people inside, way too many. Do you all have beds? No, no, because for example, when I first arrived, people gave me a blanket that stinks of piss.

I don't know, today it must have changed a lot. At the time, it was a mattress. And we'd go in the morning, we'd put it on the side, and at 7 in the morning we had to take it out off the mattresses so we wouldn't sleep all day. It was a much stricter regime than it is today. For inmates like us, we didn't have a Playstation, no Chinify, when we wanted to cook...

Without worrying, it was more complicated. Very complicated. When we wanted to cook, we had two wires in the electrical box, once in two, you'd take a bag of... Yeah, we'd make... with wicks, with oil, a piece of cloth, a tube of tomato sauce.

So what did you do? To make food. With a wick. So it's true that you learn a lot of little techniques. And it's true that you see that the inmates are very... Disorganized. Disorganized, yes, very, very disorganized. A real smoker. The first time I was asked to light a cigarette, I didn't smoke,

I didn't smoke a cigarette or a joint. When I got to jail, I smoked the cigarette, the joint, very little, because I quickly had a memory loss and I thought of my brother, I said to myself, stop lying, I'm going to do worse than better, because I lost the ball,

you don't care about anything, so I said to myself, it's useless to film, it would be worse than better. But in prison, there are a lot of things, and that's why I'm going to talk about it today. We never talk about it, there are a lot of suicides in prison. We never talk about it, or very little. A lot of suicides, why?

Because people are left to their own devices. There is no suicide. The racket, we see it, there is racket. The next day, when I arrived in prison, the assistant came to see me and said, don't leave your cell, they all want to racket you, they know why you are there.

I didn't do anything. I really had a problem, because I really believed in it. When I said it, it was really sincere, because I really did it. But they told me, you're not going to say you saw someone. I said, fuck, I didn't do it. So I made the decision to go out.

And I still remember it. So I arrive and there's a guy, David, the same, he comes and he says, they're about 10 years old, and they saw that you had a big thingy, a big thingy, behind Max at your feet, I'm not sure you fit in.

And so I told this guy, give me a job, tell me which one, the leader in the story. If there was one thing I had learned from my brother, it's that he told me, if one day it happens to you, hit it harder.

Don't try to hit it.

That's all.

And so David tells me, it's him. And so they're in the courtyard, they're preparing their plan. Because it's cowardly, in reality, in prison, there are very few... Yes, if there are five,, 5s are easy. So I arrived and decided to go straight to the fight. I fought, and it worked.

In fact, by going alone, they didn't jump on me. We fought one on one. And since I had done combat sports, it was relatively easy to get the message across. And... I was so full of anger that it was over quickly.

And how long did you know you were leaving? Did you talk to your mother? Did you say, No, I'll do it, and what? You don't know? No, I don't know, because no one told me.

It's the waiting of judgment, but you don't know when it is. It could be a year, a month, two weeks. They told me I'd already been away for a month, two weeks. They told me I'd been away for a year already, for preventive measures. I don't believe it. Actually, that's what saved me. I really believe that being hopeful...

Not believing it, yeah.

It allowed me to overcome all this suffering. And I realize that I'm changing. Prison is the same. You shouldn't forget one thing in prison. Today, we say, we're going to put Pierre, Paul or Jacques in prison.

He stole a bike, he's going to jail. He stole this, he's going to jail. Everyone is mixed up with everyone. It's the same, it's a mistake. Because in reality, when you get to prison, I'm the first to say that if you did it, you have to pay, it's normal. But it's not by letting a young person in prison,

because there is no school obligation, no study obligation, no work obligation. The guy is there, he's locked up, locked up. Can he actually get better by getting out? Or worse? I think worse. First of all, why? When you get to jail, it's the night of crime.

You run into guys, the guy who sells two barrels of shit. There's a contact list, when he gets out, it's kilos that he's going to sell. Because you can't laugh, you can't lie to yourself. All our politicians, and I really want to pass the message, stop, they know, but when you get there, you have a vivid contact.

When I got out of prison, I was like, in the car, here we are. It's a reality. If you're really in the shit, what's weird to say is that you're going to knock on doors to work. Oh no. And then you go to prison. It's complicated. You told us about the prayer. You knock on a prison door, it's always there, open the door,

and it will help you. So not necessarily in the bank, but at least I think that locking people up... You make a network, a negative entourage. Yes, nasty.

Nasty. And you feel like you're in prison, so you're full of anger. And twice as much when you haven't done anything. You have connections, you have contacts, and people learn to be honest. After a while, people know that you haven't done anything either. They don't doubt what you've done or not.

How did they know you were in prison for that? Because the supervisors had given me the info. When I arrived, Péa Sonam, this boy, Aziz, I heard he was dead, he was in prison and he had an argument with the supervisor. I didn't know him, but a few days before.

And it's true, he had jumped with his fork, it was a small chair, on the supervisor. So he had a griffin. I'm not saying it's good, they come to do their job and frankly, hats off, because it's really not a job I'd like to do. Because it's really complicated, and complicated sometimes

to fall into the wrong paths. And the supervisor said, well, you're going to do us a favor, beat him. You go with him in a cell, you do us a favor, you're comfortable with us. Wait, if I have to be comfortable with someone, it's with them. I said, you can't, you have to be... I didn't know the prison system yet.

So for me, I told the guards... Sometimes they put you in a cell and tell you to beat them up. Yes, you're in service to them and they're in service to you. So the guard who had been offended, he told me, destroy him for us. And us, you're coming with us. You want a second shower, you want this.

But me, at the beginning, when I arrived, I didn't know what he meant by that. I said, listen, I want to tell you something. I don't want to be good with you, or with them. I just want to get out of here because I didn't do anything. I am accused of a crime that I didn't do. I'm not going to get into your... Leave me alone. And so when I get into this famous cell with this boy,

he's actually a little 16 year old, he's even smaller than me. He's a good boy, just lost and who was delivered in a difficult family because we, in ourselves, we still had good parents. My father always worked, we never missed anything, we were well dressed, we had the first console, we had the VTT, we had a good family, a loving family. We had love in our home. My father was Muslim, my mother was Christian, she ate pork, and my father...

You see, there was never any difficulty in religion. It was so... no one judges anyone. There was a cross, Jesus at the entrance, and a Corinth on the side. And your brother's name is Christian, you're my brother. My father's name is Christian, there's one who's Christian, the other who's atheist,

I'm a Muslim, and so on. And we live well, I mean, we love each other. And we've always been... We're in a family-called built family, it wasn't deconstructed. No, very structured. I'm telling you, I was afraid because my brother died very quickly when people came and said,

look, it's powder citapod and it was shit. And unfortunately he fell in it. So, inevitably, there were ups and downs. And today, it's been years since he was allowed to rebuild. And we never heard about him again. But there was a dark period

that made my name... Our name was dirty, but otherwise, we never had any problems. Did you behave well in prison or did you do stupid things? Were you fed up with it? Well, sometimes I behaved well, but I did do some bad things. Anyway, in prison, there are no 36 solutions in prison.

It's either you're a victim, or you become the boss. There's no right environment, really. I mean, at some point, to be respected, you have to do bad things. First, when you're seen to flirt or to steal, etc., I mean, as soon as you have to be violent,

and prison is ultra-violent, when you beat someone, you have to use words, words have a meaning, it's not fighting, you beat the person, and you're in an environment full of anger and hatred, I mean, I've hit people

where we could have stopped, and you're crossing'm going a bit beyond the limits. And there are things that... Prison makes you do things, you have no other solution. My mother, after two months, when she came to see me, she told me, you're not the same.

My mom saw me when I was 17, I was a little boy. She came to see me 3 or 4 months later, or she was looking at me and she said, you're cold, you're not smiling anymore, you're mean. I used to say to my mom, stop crying, you're not the only one in jail.

And today, I say to myself, and I regret it, because she's not there anymore, but I had the opportunity to tell her, I lied sometimes, there were words that went beyond, but I was so angry, I was so angry with myself, that... Yeah, prison, that's why I mean, you have to be sensitive, that when you put someone in prison, you have to put him in good intelligence, that is to say that you have to put him with conditions, with a follow-up, with obligations. So for you, it's a nursery to create other criminals, basically?

You put someone nice who just did a little bullshit with guys who are very mean, you can make him very mean, that's what you were saying basically? It's a certainty. I don't even think I have any doubts about it. There are one or two cases of people I've met who have been in prison.

And... If you look at them on the prison's list, either they are... full, meaning they have no life because they suffered. Meaning they really are living it badly. And those I've met...

7 out of 10, are much more experienced criminals.

They go through a lot.

You said you saw your mom, you see her in... You still had your dad at the time? He came to see you too?

Yes, yes.

My dad, it's thanks to him that I was able to hold on. Because the first Parloir, I didn't want to go to the first Parloir. The first Parloir was very difficult. I told myself I would have to face my father and mother's eyes. I was 17 and I swear I had only one desire. I'm not a demonstrator, but I just wanted to cry.

I had to create a shell of someone very difficult, very strong, dark, etc. Because I told myself if I melt, they're dead. I couldn't hurt my parents because Julie Day was busy with it. Julie Day is the girl you accused, but you didn't know that yet. No, I didn't know, but I mean, for me, the people who accused me at the time hadn't only accused Farid, the 17-year-old, they had deprived my parents of their child. Imagine, I think that...

We close our eyes for a few moments, and as parents, we put ourselves in their shoes. Just a few moments. When we are parents, we say, we take our child, we say, to rape someone, etc. We know deep down that it's not true.

And behind that, a helplessness. That is to say, we have deposited the evidence, we have brought a passport, and we can't do anything. But we see our child in a prison, in a pitiful state,

and we see our child becoming another child. It's like someone without feelings. In any case, they don't have feelings anymore. In anger. When you see them in the parlor, for those who have never seen them, I visited a prison with Gérald Darmanin when he came.

He's the mayor of my city. In Tourcoing? Yes, with Mrs Bécu. The parlor is the area in the prison where families can come to see the prisoners. Some have windows,

some with microphones. You can't talk, some have windows, others with microphones, some don't want to talk, some have holes, and some you can touch, hug, etc. What were you like at the time? I did both. So, when everything was going well,

you could kiss your parents, and then there was a day of little walls, chairs, not very clean, because you have to know that most of the clothes deteriorate, even if they are not, for me it's totally stupid, because it's for us to deny,

and between spit, urine, etc., to receive the parents, it's a little average anyway. So I knew that, or the first speaker, my father, when he arrived, I had trouble facing his gaze. And then, right away, I said, Dad, I swear it's not me.

He said, stop Farid, I'll tell you once and not twice, know that if I'm here in front of you, it's because I know you're innocent. Otherwise, I wouldn't be here, and I wouldn't be your father. So that's said and done. And it's true that it had affected me. It gave me so much energy,

saying, my father is on my side. Because I think if my father

had come to see me

saying, did you see what you did? I really think pertinently, even if at home it's not good, I think I would have been surprised. Because I had a period where it was too going through my head. I think it's human, because there's fatigue.

At some point, you say, I'll never get out of it, I'm not even 20, I haven't done anything, I can't be 20. It's not possible. 20 years, it's not possible. Not here, not in these conditions, not for a crime like that. So I had a fight for a while with myself, I had the strength, I didn't have the forge anymore. Did you see people killing each other in prison? Yes, yes, yes.

I had a case where there was a guy, he had a beautiful Adidas jacket and he was above me and every time I said, give me your jacket, give me your jacket. No, Farid, I keep my jacket. I said, go ahead, trade it for me, trade it for me.

And then he doesn't want to and I said, she was beautiful, it was a beautiful Indidas Young Ted jacket, she was really beautiful. And in prison, that's how it goes, you trade, you take, etc. And one night he told me, Farid, look, I'm sending you something. And he sends me his jacket. Why? I said, do you want to trade?

No, no, it's a gift. And in fact, you're so in the middle that there are certain things that you can't even realize. And in fact, he had already planned this idea. Yeah, yeah. And the next day, the supervisor comes over and says, Farid, did you see your buddy? He had given this to me, he had given something to my colleague,

his radio was waking up another one. And I would always remember, I would say to the supervisor, put the jacket back on, I can't keep the jacket. And it's true that it shocked me, but at the same time, it opened my mind to the fact that, you can be free.

In fact, that's where it's... You say that if you kill yourself, you will be free. Yeah, yeah. At a time, in fact, you are so mentally tired, that at a time, you need an escape. You know, at some point, you can whine, you can say you're strong. I've seen some people say,

no, I'm a Kaid, or people decide, yeah, yeah, yeah. I've seen them cry, like everyone else. In these struggles, you put yourself in your corner, you cry like you're a human being. The marmite is full, it has to evacuate.

Men cry? At some point, I had to stop. I knew them. I said, I saw you in prison, my friend. Yeah, Farid, it's good. I said, no, but I saw you. You can't say you can't, because you're trying to make the kids believe it. But it's not giving them good examples. You have to encourage them not to do stupid things, to work hard at school, to tell them what I did is not good, make 30 years, it's rare. Some of them are out of the water, but generally speaking,

what is success? When you go to work. That's it. So I told them, stop, you're in jail too, you'll cry. It all happened to us to say that.

You can't do it anymore, you're out of breath, you're locked up, that's how it is, that's all. And so it's true that... It was complicated because sometimes I thought... 20 years ago, when I came back from the Juve, they were putting pressure on me. I thought... And I thought about my mother. I thought, if I kill myself, it's not possible.

Because I had seen my parents die. Because in this story, I was hurt, but... I suffered, the little boy who was 17 years old... I think I made the young man I was only 17 years old. I think I made the youth I was. In the newspapers at the time,

there was your head,

there was your name on it, with the mark, the violation, and all that. It was forbidden at the time. The Northern Voices were not allowed to put my name on it, because I was a minor. It was strictly forbidden to put the name and first name of a minor. But they do.

And so, people point fingers at your parents? My parents... After, we're lucky. Luck is bad luck, but we're lucky that people are cowardly. In addition to that, they do that behind your back. They say, you turn around, people don't talk anymore.

But my parents weren't stupid. The fact that it came released, my mother stayed to work before going home. She went to take care of her uncle, Pepe Denis. So she went and took care of her uncle and my cousin Angélique, because she lost her mom at the age of 36. But apart from that, she did nothing.

And we didn't see that joy of living anymore. And for example, I wasn't allowed to go to the North. I wasn't allowed to come to the North of Calais. I mean, when I came, I came every time in a hurry. Why did you come? Oh yes, after you were released.

Yes. Wait, just to continue the prison period. So you arrived on February 5th, right? Yes, February 5th. So on May 5th, it's your IRCA, right? Yes, it's my IRCA. 5-5. I'm a surveillance officer, that's right.

You were 18 years old.

I was 18. So you leave the prison on the same day, and they put you on the other side. Actually, the surveillance officers, since I'm not a model prisoner. I'm a prisoner who screams his innocence. It doesn't work. So I scream it, I scream it, I fight, I argue. I exteriorize the fact that I have nothing to do.

No, I didn't do anything. But they can't understand it. And on top of that, a guy who fights doesn't look very innocent. A guy who's violent, it can be... Yes, but you have to fight when you're a f***ing m****r. When you hear the man behind you saying, f***, did you see what he did?

I'll let you imagine, 5 minutes, the image. What? What did I do? So inevitably you're going to get into a conflict with the guy. And they didn't believe you until the end, people? Yes, yes, there were either good supervisors that I had, so there was one, Christian, who was at the bottom,

he's still alive, he was a really good supervisor. He was really doing his job. I mean, at the time, he even saved me once, because I asked my big brother to bring me the cassettes, but I had mispronounced it it. Because we had a radio station, and it was forbidden to play music. I told my brother,

the others told me, you tell your brother to play roll-ons. It was the roll-on era.

Oh, the audio cassettes?

Yeah. Oh yeah, they just took them off and you put them in your cassettes? And I was mispronouncing it. I told my brother to bring me some music. My brother brought me 5 of those records 5 records I think I said, I had to take off my shoes

I was a novice I had put them in my shoes like that I said, it's going to be fine When I went to check, he said, come on, let's go What did you put in there? I hope it's not drugs I said, no, I swear it's not drugs, it's music

He said, you're talented He took them and told me I was in the big cell. He told me, don't do that anymore, because it's the guitar. There were some nice guys. There were some very good supervisors. There were some supervisors, we won't say it. I think they are...

They may not have always been, but with time, it's understood that they become grey and tired. It's a world... Hard.

Yeah.

Honestly, respect them.

Because it's...

Wow.

A real job. When you're transferred from the minor district to the major district, you're going to be put in a cell with a rapist and a murderer.

Yeah.

That's what you're saying, you're a bit... So it's not possible anymore. With people who don't pull you up. No, no, yeah. Here I'm with two guys who are completely out of touch. But really out of touch. Besides,

they don't talk during the day. Not at all. You are three in a cell? Yeah, three in a cell. What size? Yeah, it's 9 square meters, 8 square meters, I don't know.

Rusted, rotten iron beds, a broken window, because they probably broke it, so it's cardboard. A toilet in the middle. You have to do your needs in front of everyone. You can be eating, you're pooping, everything's fine. I mean, it's very, very complicated.

And then you're with men. Well, I'm just a kid. Because they say, yeah, 18 years old. But I'm 18, 17, 18. You're a young adult. Yeah, I'm a very young adult, but I'm with guys who have 40 or 50 balls,

and you see that they have a psychological or psychiatric problem. Because they don't talk, they're dumb, when I look into them, when I talk to them, they don't talk to me. And then I think to myself, I'm here for a girl, didn't they screw me over with idiots who did it? And then I have a grudge against these people. I mean, I'm angry because I think it's because of assholes

that I find myself being accused. Really, I... Do you think there's someone who really did it to the girl? I think there's too many. Yeah. Someone who really did it on the girl. I tell myself, there's a hole. Yeah, well, I'm... There's a guy who... There's a lot going on in my head. Because I always tell myself,

it's not possible to lie. And even today, that's where we see the wickedness and the... You have to be a devil to accuse someone wrongly, who didn't do it. I mean, you can't be selfish and self-centered, you can only... It's not possible, you can't put someone who didn't do anything in prison

in total impunity, knowing that it's not him. Aren't you afraid at night when you sleep? With these two crazy guys? Well, yes! So I arrive one day, I go out for a walk, and it's not the same anymore,

because the A, at the time, were the guys who took big trouble A section, D section. D was all that was toxicoman. Yeah, not very dangerous, all are asleep, are hidden, well, in itself, those there. You better be there, actually. For the good living, no, because I'm someone of good living, you know, otherwise...

Yeah.

I see you, I see myself badly, I see with them at cards, you know, you fail. Yeah, there are guys who are... No, it's not possible. It's not possible. You're going to end up like them, it's impossible. And so I end up with virulent people. Big pen, big dealers, big dealers, killers. And I stay a killer in people's eyes. It means that you're not going to put them in jail.

I tell you, I'm really lucky because my personality doesn't make me give up. It means that I go all out, I go all up. I go all out, I fight, I fight, I don't care. In reality, think what you want, I don't care. So I fight and I don't run away. And that's what allows me, because real vipers in prison run away. They crawl, they break the walls, they go to church,

they go to places where they can't meet anyone. They never dare. I was told. For example, they told me, before leaving, do you really want to go to... because I said I'm not staying there, in the wing of the violers,

I'm telling you right now. Ok, do you want to go to the wing over there?

I said yes, I don't care.

I have nothing to do with them. And so when I found myself with these two guys, the guy who had raped me and the killer, the problem is that during the day, he doesn't talk to me. So I go home, I go for a walk and I come back. And he doesn't talk.

That's it.

I try to talk to him, he doesn't talk. So it's anxiogenic. And what do you do during the day when he doesn't talk? Well, you think. And thinking is your worst enemy in prison. No, but the goal of prison would not be to get fucked, but to learn something. Yes, that's it, their goal is to make you crazy.

You regret it. Yes, you don't even think about regretting it anymore, you don't care anymore. And so there I find myself with these guys, and the first night, I tell myself, how? So I tell him, I take the top bed. There are codes in prison. When you want something, they are there before. You have to assert yourself. Otherwise they will call you a cheat.

They will say, you canteen this, you do that, you buy the TV. You have to assert yourself. I said, listen, there is no pressure, my business is mine, you don't touch it, it's mine. And I take the top bed. Why the top bed? Because I'm telling myself I'm up there, even if people don't like the bed up there, because when you get up, you're screwed. But I tell myself, if he wants to go up or do something, I can shoot and he falls.

You're more safe. Yeah, I had played security, so that's it for me. First night, TV. The TV, it's a conflict. Who paid for it? You have to know that the natives... I wasn't a native.

What do you mean by native? The natives are those who don't have it. No money, no mandate. Yes, yes, yes, yes. My parents sent me money every week, etc. And again, that's why I had really good parents.

I even had more than I needed because I could afford not to eat at the garmel. But it's problematic, because if they don't have three on TV, you pay for it. It's not divided. The one who has it, pays. But since you pay, you say, wait, I'm the one who pays, I chose the channel. But that's the problem. I watch one, you watch the other, you watch Canal+. It goes into a fight, right?

Yes. So, they were crazy. They don't confront each other in real life. It's even more dangerous because... So I thought, that's weird, they never say anything. I change the TV, I yell at them, they don't answer. And they don't talk. So it worried me.

It worried me more than when someone told me when you go out for a walk I'm going to get beat up because I already knew there was going to be a conflict. They, empty of feelings. I said, shit. And then, at night I fall asleep

and I sing like that, a song that's on my leg. I said, what do you want, do you need something? Because I didn't see the harm in it. No, no, nothing. And they whispered like that between themselves. They understood each other. And then, you know, there was one...

Yeah, there was one, it was a Kabyle. And I always remember this song, it stayed in my head. And they started singing, Dormi a, decidi, dormi a, they started... And I said to him, don't start, please, don't start. I told him, we sleep at night. During the day, you never talk, at night you whisper. I said, guys, I'm not going to hold back.

And it's true that I was so tired. I said, guys, if you keep going, I'm going to slaughter you. I'm going to kill you. Well, that's all. In the morning, I play a watchman in the early morning. And in prison, you develop this... Sixth sense. You never sleep at full capacity. You scream. You're the one who lives.

In the morning, I go to the supervisor and say, I need to change my cell phone, please. I say, they're completely insane. I say, where do I see you? I tell you the truth, at some point, we're going to fight, something's not going to work.

This night, you touch my leg. I asked him if he needed anything, he said no. Then I heard him singing, whispering, I said, the security guards are completely crazy. He said, listen Larry, there's nothing here, no place. I said, I don't care, tonight you sing for me, or else you'll vomit me. And it lasted like that for two days,

and I couldn't sleep anymore, so I got my head in the game, I got my head in the game for three, four days. And at some point, my mother came to the speaking room and I said, I'm going to write to the director and I'm going to kill him. Because in fact, that guy, two days later, he did the same thing again. And so I think what he was trying to do was to touch me. And so at some point, I kicked him, I beat him. And so it was still me who had trouble because I finished late.

But without regret, I mean, it was deserved, it was worth it, it was worth the hassle. But in itself, you see, prison, we put anyone and everything together. If I hadn't had the strength to hit him, maybe he wouldn't have acted. Maybe he would have hit me, maybe he would have touched me. Because there are some who are violent in prison,

don't be fooled, it's not like in the movies. There are some, they are forced to do it, some do it out of fear, some do it out of choice to have sexual intercourse with men. But some do it out of fear or out of obligation. They are held by mandates, money, tobacco. And it happens, but we'll never talk about it, we talk very little about it.

You will be transferred to a prison after this problem, in Longones, which is a cleaner prison. It was the new prisons that were the 13,000 plans at the time. So it's true that when they decided to transfer me, I'm going to Longnes, it brought me closer to my parents, so for my parents it was a much shorter journey to come and see me. It's true that at that moment, when I arrive, I'm amazed at the difference.

I feel like I've arrived at the hotel. We stay locked up, but we only talk about the setting. The supervisors are very polite. Not the same thing as in LOS. The supervisors were... After, it's not the same population.

The supervisors were more familiar, more... I think they were adapted to the environment they worked in. And when I got there, hello sir, super clean hallway, I get there, race car, well cleaned, and it was a mess.

You stayed there until the end, in Long Beach. You'll finish your incarceration. How long did you stay there? Six months. And you'll have the confrontation with the victim, presumed at that time,

we'll call her Julie D, with the letter D. In all, you've been there for six months, but with the total, because it's 11 months and 23 days on the trial. You end up with three of your friends on the accused's bench,

but you didn't even know it was planned. In fact, a few months later, when I arrived in Longness, I have my lawyer who says, well, there's a problem. There are two people who have been put on trial, well, who haven't even been put on trial. There are two people,

your friends, who say they saw you and who recognize the effect with you. My mother taught me that, the lawyer told me that. I said, no, no, no. It's even worse than what I thought. I know this story.

So I start to... I bug, I say to myself, no, no, he's lying, something's wrong, shit. So I tell the lawyer, we need to ask for a confrontation, something's really wrong. She says, there's a third party, he's denying it. But they, you and the other two, are involved.

And then I'll learn later, of course. Because I say, no, I deny, I deny, I deny, I deny, the instruction judge calls me and says, well, there you go, Mr. El-Hari, there are two of you. And the instruction judge says, well, why don't you play the card of, well, it's them.

So for a moment I said to myself, well, yeah, if they say it's them, it might be them. I thought, if I go into that game, I'm a dead man. I can't tell you if it's them, Mr Judge. It was you doing the job. I wasn't there. How could I tell you it's them? If I start saying that, it means I was there.

I was there too, but I wasn't there. So now, if they say they were there, dig and look for them. I'm not crazy, I'm not going to play the hot ball. I throw it at them, so I'm stuck. The hot ball. I said, I have nothing to do with this story. And yet I don't understand why these people say that.

But I would like to see them. Were they friends or village buddies? No, they were real friends. We went to the box, we played football. You were real friends, we went to the gym, we played football... You were close friends. We were always together. Always together.

So you had a confrontation at some point? With them and with her? Well, the judge was shooting at full speed, he was playing the watch. One year ago, he had to... He had to sign me again for a year.

Because at the time, everything that was criminal case, I think it's three times a year, after six months, after four months, and two months, and then you have to go to trial. But at the beginning, they can renew three times a year. So, we've already reached a year.

But his file is totally empty, really. If he takes the file, there's only her, no proof, I give a passport as if I were not on the territory, and they only did it in charge against me.

That means, for example, all the girlfriends who were heard, etc., the police did not even put their statements in my file. That means there is really only in charge. The judge did not put it, he said, well, we're going to get to the confrontation, we're going to have a confrontation just before a year.

And so there's Ahmed, Achmi, Moussa, Ahmed and Julie D. I arrive, I have the order not to speak. That means that even in my own defense, I always want to shut her up. Mr. Lark, it's not worth talking to talk, to try to shout, to put pressure, etc. Is it your lawyer who tells you to shut up? No, it's the judge of instruction. And my lawyer, she tells me, Farid, calm down.

I would like to see you in my place, calm down. I've been in jail for a year for something I didn't do. It's hard. In fact, what is really sad is that no one, no one can understand it. Really, I think even my parents sometimes tell me, stop being so angry. I say, you don't realize it. And I really think that it must be very difficult to understand as long as you don't experience it.

Justice, as long as it is not experienced, we cannot imagine it. It's not possible. The feeling, it's impossible to prove his innocence. Except if you write down where you are, how you were down how you left him every day, you'd go crazy. So, confrontation. Achmi is heard, and Achmi immediately says,

No, no, wait, Mr. Judge, now that you're here, the police force put pressure on me, they forced me to sign this and to do this, and then they made me do it. Reconstitutions where they put on a path, and I have the entire file, where they make clichés without our lawyers, without the accusers, without anyone. They had pressure to sign too, Babi? Yes.

Like you had? Yes, except that... They cracked? Them, as I said earlier, they had me pass in front of them in a car. That means that their plan was already prepared. When they went to get Achmed, they said,

Do you remember when we went with Farid? What did they tell you? Prison. And where? Prison. You don't say you were there, you go to prison. But in fact, they wanted me dead. Because in reality, in 10 years,

they were there, who saw him, they made a statement, but that's it. They were never heard, neither the commissioner... They wanted the guilty ones. They wanted only me. Because in reality, if it was really real,

and that the facts, well, they were my accomplices. And Julie D, she said you were several, or you were alone? She said several. At first she said they were all there, that would mean that normally they should have been in detention like me.

And so you find yourself facing this girl and you don't tell her... I do. I tell her, I tell her, but wait, you're completely crazy. Look at me,

I have nothing to do with this story. I say, and then, at some point, I say, but if they confuse you, I don't know. Because in my head, at some point, there is confusion. I tell myself, wait, could they have done it? Fortunately, I still had a line of control. Saying, Farid, take care of yourself, of what you did or didn't do.

And it's not up to you to help them. It's not because otherwise... And so, I was still structured I was writing, I was going to the library, I was reading documents, I was looking for things in the law, I was trying to help myself.

Yeah, you were risking. I was thinking, wait, the presumption of innocence, yeah, ok. Because what's good in prison, for the one who wants to, there's a library. There are books of law that you can't... There are a lot of things you can do. And there was a guy at the library who was stuck in law. And he told me, wait, no, without yes, without no, without yes, without no...

He even advised me better than my own lawyer at the time. Yeah, it's sad, but... It's crazy. And he told me, especially when you get to the judge of inclusion, either you can, or you don't say. What did the famous Julie Day answer when you said... So, for a few moments, she basically said, Moussa is no longer there, he is no longer there,

Amen is no longer there, no, they are no longer there. My lawyer, she says, wait, you realize, she just said they were no longer there. And then, in fact, her lawyer takes a look and says, yes, yes, except Farid. At the time, Moussa, who was young too, said, Wait a minute, it's too easy, Mr. Judge.

A moment ago, she said we were all there. Today, she says, we're not there anymore. And now she puts Farid aside and says he was there. You realize that she's lying. And in fact, it is from there that the judge says, There is a problem.

So confrontation, it stops because because I... I shouldn't talk, because her strategy... And she's very smart, and she's a narcissist, because... Actually, her strategy, I had the idea, what is it? It's that as soon as you ask her a question, she collapses and she cries. Obviously. She is supposedly... victim of a rape, she cries, what happens? Everyone stops. Don't talk to each other anymore, etc.

So the strategy was good. Why did she do that? You'll explain it to us later. Because she's crazy. Because you have to be crazy to do that. You really have to be crazy. To say that the person, in all knowledge of the cause, did it, and worse, her mother knows it, his father knows it.

That's wrong. Yes. Wait, you'll explain it to them, we'll see, because it's incredible. And so, sorry, so, in the end, she doesn't admit it in front of you, but there's just this moment of hesitation, and she says, there's no others, then there's others, then there's more. And from there, it stops, Mr. Larry, you're leaving, so we're back note, I went back to prison. In the morning, I was called, I left and they told me,

Mr. Hélarié, you are going to be released. So for me, my lawyer is there, my father is there. So I say, it's not me. Because I only have one obsession. It's not to be released in itself, anyway I'm in prison. It's that I'm being washed away by this horror.

I say, so it's not me. No, no, Mr. Larré. You are released, but under judicial control. I say no. What does that mean? Judicial control, in fact, is that you will have to point out,

and again, they didn't tell me that I couldn't be at my parents' anymore. So you go out, with conditions signed, for example, every week at the police station, the closest to your home. I'll always remember, and I'll pay my father with all my heart, where I say, how is that? No, no, out of the question, what is this? And my father kicks me in the back, he seems to say, but shut up, you're going to get out of jail. I say to my father, but no, I'm not getting out of jail. That's not the problem.

He's saying it's me, it's surreal. My lawyer tells me, Farid, calm down. One thing at a time. A war is won by a step. You're going to go to your uncle's. Oh, I'm going to my uncle's.

And then, But I still had an idea in mind. The idea was to go and get the information myself. I really wanted to go out and see them all and tell them, listen, you have to get this straight, what happened? Because I didn't do anything in this story. So you're all going to tell me the truth. And I just wanted a confrontation.

And at the time, and besides, it couldn't have been lost because my father came. So the judge decides to get me out. I get back to prison. And I got away with it, because I had to do 30 days in prison. That day.

I still remember what the supervisor was expecting me to do, because I had to go to prison for a mistake I made in prison. And in fact, I'm liberal. So when you know, it's when you're called to the infirmary, to the warden, you get all your photos, your report, your complete file.

That's a sign that you're going to be released. And so you go to the warden, you sign your exit form, you prepare your package and you're released. And so from there, the judge had decided that I was released. So that's it. I'm leaving. So that's it, I leave, I leave all my stuff, I gave everything to my colleagues in prison,

I really took the least of it, and I go out, and I know that I can't point my gun to the North, because I have an obligation to stay in the 93rd. And the judge, in fact, has no other choice than to release me in a court of law,

he doesn't do it for my own good, because he wants my position from the beginning. He does it because he sees that the case is wrong, and that in addition, he has to argue with her, and then she said yes, she said no, she said yes, so he takes no more risks. He says, the case is empty, she doesn't know what, so we're going to let him go on probation and we're going to let him go. So that's it, I get out of prison and I move on. I was leaving and I had an idea in mind, it was to go to Asbrook.

It was your mother, Asbrook. You can't go to Asbrook, you know you have to go to your uncle's. You can't live near your parents. You have to stay in your city. And so I was walking on the road for a quarter of an hour and I see my big brother coming in the home with my dad. He asked me where I was going. I said, I don't know.

And my dad was very... square. He said, you don't understand. Are you stupid or what? I said, what do you mean? I have to make it clear. He has to explain to me why he said that.

Hashmi says he was there. Moussa says who doesn't know. So they're all going to tell me. But my father says, who are you, how are you going to do it, so that they tell you? But I say, we'll see as we go. And in fact, my father says, listen, if that's the case, I won't talk to you anymore,

either you come with us. And in fact, that's it, we're leaving. With a bit of a rancor, but I still went to Paris. So I end up in Paris, at my uncle's, and I have to look for the first police station closest to my house, which was in Pantin, in Auch. And I understand that I have to go to Pointe.

Pointe is signed to show that you are there. Every week, every Monday. And it's the same, because once again, it's a bit of joy, a bit of... It's the roller coaster, this story. Because when I sing, I tell myself, OK, I'm out, what do I do? I'm 18, I'm a kid, I'm in Paris, great, quiet.

My father has to go to work. What am I going to do now? And actually, strangely, in prison, you took so much rhythm, that I took the same rhythm. I went out at the same time, I watched the same MTV. And after 15 days, 3 weeks, I said, well, I have to get a grip.

Every Monday I went to the office. And then I started applying, I started working because I had to the police station every Monday. Then I started to apply for a job, I started to work because I had to make a living. What did you look for as a job at first? At first, the problem was that when you go to jail, you don't have any money. My parents gave me some, but I didn't want to worry them anymore because I had seen my parents go die for a year. My father was tired, my mother was tired, no longer smiling, no longer...

They were cold, they were empty, they were... They were less happy. They were destroyed, they were... You go to get a job. So yeah, it's complicated. You're 18, it's been a while.

So I do my CV, I go right, left, nothing. So then I work in the dark, I do the markets. The advantage of Paris is that you can find work everywhere. So I do a little bit of everything and anything at the start. And one day I decide to go to the employment office, I said, well, I'm going to go see, I'm going to introduce myself, we'll see. And so I arrive, I say to her, here is my lady,

listen, I'm going to play the transparency card with you, I say, you need a CV, but I just got out of prison. Oh yeah, no lady is very nice, but I think she wasn't trained for this kind of subject. She said, I want something for you, I would like to find work. And she said, but in what? I don't know myself, I said anyway, what do you propose? And so he gave me lots of announcements, and at and at the time, you had to go there.

And Paris is small and it's big at the same time. Except that I wasn't allowed to leave the 93. I couldn't go to Paris. I had a control in Paris, I could go to jail. You were blocked in the beginning. So I had to find my way in the 93.

At first, I was very afraid of that. For example, when I lived in Paris, when you crossed the street, you were in Paris. And then in 1993, when I saw the police, I thought, wow, I'm going to get a contract, I'm going to end up in jail again.

Because you crossed the street. And then I quickly understood that it was nonsense. Because afterwards, we thought, we'll see. I was checked, my court record was nowhere in reality. My ban was nowhere. I went abroad, I went to Morocco, I went to Dubai.

I never had a case of control. How long did you stay in? Three years. Three years? I wasn't allowed to go to the North, for example, in the North of Calais. And I admit that the first year I respected it, and then I got tired.

And then I worked, so I... What kind of job was it, in the end? I started, I was a salesman. And I climbed the ladder of salesman, assistant, manager. Three years later, you said, it lasts three years, there is a trial. Because you have not been judged yet, I have spoken about all this, but you have not had a trial yet, you have not gone to a real judge.

December 2003, we are here. So you are summoned, so it's the sittings there.

The sittings, yes.

For the verdict, that's it, you will have the final result of your trial. Do you still have the same lawyer, ComedOffice, who's coming back? No, I took Maître Grasset, another lawyer from Lille. What do you think at that moment? Was there the judge who was accusing you?

Yes, yes.

So when I received the call, you have to know that I thought, it's not possible. Because in reality, you still have hope that it will fall into the water. You think, well, he's letting it go, but...

Because...

For me, if someone has killed, I really have trouble understanding that you can leave someone free. For me, it's an incitement. If I consider that that he did it, once again, we put you in jail, we release you,

you're a rapist, but we're going to release you, you're going to rape a little bit, maybe, and then we'll re-condemn you. No, it's logical. The guy killed him,

we can't put him in temporary detention, release him and re-judrial him 5 years later. That's when we see that there is a real problem with our justice. He killed him, he's in our custody, he's sentenced, he's doing his crime. We release him, for me it's not logical at all. And sincerely for all the families who have to suffer this,

because we also have to put ourselves on the side of people who are victims. When they see that the guy really did it, and that between the two of them he is free, I find that... Our justice is a real problem. In any case, for me, there are a lot of things to review. So for me, I say to myself,

how is this possible? But it's possible. So, Master Gracie called me and said, listen, Farid, you're going to have to sign, you're going to have to present in December 20, I think it was 2003,

at the Assezies. And it's a blow to my ass. I called my parents, I told them,

listen, no.

Château de Cartier is going to collapse again, my mother is crying, my father is stressed, my father is...

He's doing things he shouldn't, The whole neighborhood collapsed again, my mother cried, my father was stressed, my father...

He did things he shouldn't have done, he didn't do at the time, he locked himself in. You don't know what you're saying? My father? He didn't drink, at some point he started drinking, etc. This story destroyed...

Beyond... It destroyed our family, it has destroyed me, but it has also destroyed the belief in justice for some, I think. And when someone lies like that, you have to say one thing, there are real victims, unfortunately. There are really women who are raped and who suffer the same atrocities.

And when a person lies, so someone who is wrongly accused, and there are girls who are raped and who suffer the same atrocities.

And when a person lies, so someone who is wrongly accused, they discredit these true victims. Because the day they go to file a complaint, maybe we'll say, is it true or is it the same as Mr. Hillary? You see, I think we should not treat these cases lightly.

I think that people who lie, under the pretext of calumny should be severely punished. But really severely punished. Why? To protect the real victims. Because beyond that, my life is ruined and they ruined it. It's not a big deal, it's done anyway.

I built around that. Today, we must also say that the calumny of Julie Day, she puts a lot of people in the dark. What will happen in this trial? In reality, in this trial, we are...

We are here and we are... I am a deputy, my parents are deputies, this person is the man and...

Who is she with?

She comes alone, because her parents know it's not true, so they don't assist her. And at some point, the judge asks her parents, and her lawyer says, « Madam, they're not here. »

So we call her. I say, « My lawyer, you realize, the parents don't come, what's this story? » But tomorrow, my daughter is old. But of course I'm going to be with her, except if she lied.

And so that means that from the start, they know. As well as her and her psychologist. And that's what's monstrous about this story. There were so many people who knew it was false, and no one dared to say it. And no one even said it, or did their duty to say it.

And will she speak in front of the judge? Yes. What will she going to say? At some point, he talks about me, he talks about what I do, I work, I'm the CEO of a company, I go with a person named Marie, etc. She knows him and she says, well, listen, it's very good, but I just don't want him to go back to prison.

And so I said, wait, you're kidding me. But if I did that, do you really think she would say that? No. And again, I shouldn't be talking. In fact, Farid, me, the Arab, I didn't have that right. You see, everything was messed up.

The Arab, of course, it's mostly the accused. Yes, the accused, but there was also the fact that I'm Arab. It didn't really work out. There's still a part of racism in my story. I'm not sure if I would have been Paul's son or a good family man. I consider myself to have had a very good family. And I prefer my family to theirs.

But... A comfortable family, well-known, well-known. I wouldn't have put a day in prison. I wouldn't have been even heard. Look, Patrick Dills is in prison, his name is Patrick. Yeah, but he didn't have a head.

How much are you going to take? What's going to happen? What are they going to tell you? Well, basically, it's a sentence that wants... Well, for me, it's a revealing sentence, that indirectly admits that it's not me, but that they don't want to admit it.

So, what they do is that they cover my temporary detention and they put me four years in prison, so five years, including a year in prison, so my temporary detention is covered. That's what you've already done, basically. And I don't go back to prison.

But you're accused, I mean, you're judged guilty?

Yes.

Oh yes, so at this point, you're not innocent yet? No, no, I'm guilty. Yes, because it's 23 years later that you're going to... Okay. You're going to be released, you're going to be published in the newspaper. Yes. People will look at you, you'll even be displayed in the file, so it's called FIGES. F-I-G-E-S

To be precise, it's pronounced FIGES, but it's the file of sexual offenses to prevent recidivism, basically. If I'm not mistaken. Yes, it's because it's the name on the Internet. What does it mean to you to be displayed like that? It means that every year, you have to justify, on your birthday date. So it's a reminder. You have to sign it at the police station,

justify your presence on the territory, your address, and be informed of any outing or move. And every year, until the end of your life. You'll get out of the file afterwards, but at least now you're... Really, you go to the police station, they... They'll break your head. Why are you there?

But they know, because they know. But it's a reminder, they prick you. And you, for an innocent person, it means that all the time, all the time, all the time, every year you have a period of anger that comes up, every year there is this injustice, this judicial error that...

And I think that if I hadn't been properly surrounded, I wouldn't have been able to... bear that. You're going to meet your wife?

Yes.

You're going to continue to be guilty, officially, right? Yes. So you're still not healed, you know? I'm not healed. So you said you're out, but you're going to sign a file, you're a little ashamed to be guilty.

And then it must be very annoying to be judged guilty, you did nothing. I remember the 12 French people who have been acquitted since 1945. Patrick Dils, who is a better known case, there is yours. Farid El-Eri, if you want to see them on the Internet. You haven't done a lot of interviews, have you? You don't have to talk about it too much. There are subjects that he does.

And again, the justice system has a hard time recognizing his mistakes. Because it's a real mistake. They recognize it. Yes, they recognize it, but at least we talk about it in the sports world. In 2009, you're going to meet your wife. Yes.

Beautiful things are happening. You manage to have, despite everything, a built life. Yes, because I managed to do that. I told you, I split Farid in two. It's very complicated to explain, but in any case I understand myself. That means that I, this little boy, I said to myself, ok, he lived that, and to be able to move forward, I said to myself, Farid, today you have another man. So you create something and you move on to something else. Where do you meet your wife? I have my shop which is in the city center of Lille, and she works right next door, in a restaurant.

And we don't talk for a long time, for 5 or 6 months. And as I was saying, I usually justify my actions and my trips to the territory, and now I'm going to Morocco. Not justified of course, but since our system is really top of the top, they didn't see it. And I meet her on the plane. And it all starts there.

I talk to her, we get to know each other, and since she works next door, we see each other regularly. When you start dating someone and you're accused of raping them, but for now, in the eyes of the law, were you still guilty? Were you still an officer? Yes.

Not a glorious one? Not a glorious one at all. Do you tell him or not? Did you play it clear? Like, listen, I'm explaining. Or did you not dare to talk to him about it because you feel you're a little in love or you're starting to hang on? No, I told him, actually.

I told him everything. I never had any difficulty in talking about it. It means that really, my strongest... my greatest strength was to face people. I'm not someone who doesn't face conflicts, who doesn't face trials, who... I move forward and I face it, and that's it, that's how it is. Does she believe you?

Right away? Well, in any case, she doesn't make me seem like I have a problem, because when I talk about it, we've been getting to know each other for weeks, and I'm very... I'm very careful, because if...

there was a misunderstanding, at least with a gesture that shouldn't be, for my part, I... I go to the prison right away. In 2013, you're going to get together, she's going to accept you, she's going to believe you, you're going to have a daughter.

A little girl, yes. What's her name? Aileen. A little girl, yes. What's her name? Aileen. Aileen, congratulations. Thank you.

Four years later, it's going to change your life, you'll see, it's going to strengthen you, it gives confidence to your parents. I think it feeds you and gives you an obligation to continue. In fact, I think in my life, I'm not sure I've done certain things for myself. I've done some, but not a lot. For example, I've held on to my mother. I've held on to my father.

Then I met my wife, who is a superb woman. So I'm moving forward with her. Then I had my daughter, so you have no choice. I had my son, which is great. These are the things that happened to me that were most beautiful. And then you have obligations. I had my son, which is great, it's the most beautiful thing that ever happened to me. And...

well, you have obligations. In June 2017, we're getting to the end of the story, but you will receive a letter from the Ministry of Justice, they will tell you that you have deleted the file of the sexual assaults, but you don't know why. In reality, normally, it's not possible.

Because I had been asking lawyers for years to erase my name from this record. I realized that I would have a hard time living with the fact that my daughter would tell me that she had learned that I was a rapist and that I had not been innocent. It would have been very difficult for me to accept it. I was fighting to try to erase it and I was told that it was impossible. I went through several lawyers, they told me I would have been ready to give my house to erase this burden. In 2017, when I received this email,

I thought, oh, a mistake, but in my favor.

Oops.

I took a photocopy, I gave it to my father, I took a photocopy, I put it in my trunk, I took a screenshot, I put it aside, I thought, one day, we'll come and play. But for once, I'm not going to try to understand why, because it's really for me. I thought, listen, at some point, maybe

I have a star that shines for me. 2017, 2022, so five years later, after the letter from Fijès, the famous one, you'll get a call from the commissariat of the south island.

But you have to know that in 2017, they found me to send me the letter. So, at my home. And now they call you and what do they say? Yes, hello, South Island Police Station, Mr. Larry, yes, absolutely. Listen, you will have to introduce yourself to the South Island Police Station. And you say, fuck, it's gone.

I hang up. Do you think it's a joke? No, no, no, no, I'm not joking. I have no trust in the police. What do they want from me? So he, in my opinion, he thinks it's a cut. He reminds me, my mother was in palliative care. My wife is next door. It's the day of the AIDS and she tells me, she sees me, I'm white,

but white, really white. She imagined she had... hear the death of my mother. She imagined hearing my mom's death.

Because we were told two or three days before that my mom was going to die. We were used to it. She said, you're crazy, why are you hanging up? I said, I don't know, I hung up. I said, yes, yes, yes. It cut.

Oh yes, yes, yes, yes. It cut. Oh yes, yes, yes, okay. I said, listen, Mr. Larry, you'll have to come, it's for your criminal story from 1998. Oh no, I said, it's not going to start again. I said, no, no, but it's good. And then I'm... I was like, what's going to happen now? And he said, wait, I forgot to tell you, the most important thing is that we have all the proof of your innocence.

And so,

you can come. I said, listen, my mother has palliative care, she won't be able to be present. He said, your father? I said, well, I'm going to get him. And so I went to look for him. So I'm going to look for my father. So I do Arras, I was in Arras, I do Arras, Azurouk, Azurouk. And he's looking at me, I say to my father, don't listen. He says to me, well, wait, if we say that, you see, I don't believe you.

I say, it smells, you know, there's something wrong. and said, we have all the evidence of your innocence, we've been looking for you for five years, but we can't find you.

I said, this is a weird story. And I'm not calm.

I'm overwhelmed with emotion, but not calm. I said to myself, what's going on? Excuse me, I'm coming back. Something's wrong. And you go? Yeah, I have no choice. So there's this famous policeman who's there, for me, for my father, for my parents. And here are the proofs of your innocence. So all the emails from Julie, all the proofs from Julie,

who accuses her brother, who filed a complaint against her brother in 2017 for his big brother, and apparently to protect his family secret, with the help of his family, etc. They accused you to protect their family secrets. It's a bomb. It explodes in my face.

Are you okay, Mr. Larry? Are you happy? I said, do you really think I'm happy? But you don't realize it. She said, wait, I understand. He gives me his number, his name, his email address. If you need...

She's nice. Yeah, he was cool. He was really cool. She said, but there's one thing I don't believe, it's that you weren't looked for for five years. He said, because for five years you must have been innocent. So basically she said it was wrong.

She hadn't done anything. In fact, she made a mistake. One of the biggest mistakes of her strategy is that in 2017, her parents decide to move. That's in relation to what is written in her letters. In 2017, her parents decide to move, she becomes a mother, etc. She is fragile, that's what she tells them,

and she decides to call her psychologist, who has always known, that I was in prison for nothing, and that her real father is her brother. And she is not there. So she takes the state number, the VIA, I don't know what, and the state's number, the V-I-A-I-I-D-I-O-W, and she calls this number, the victim's help.

And she tells everything. And it's this lady that I have to thank. And I'd really like to know who she is, but I never knew. She's an online psychologist?

Yeah.

And she tells her everything is wrong? to her psychologist. Incredible. And this lady tells him, I'll leave you 48 hours, I'll contact your psychologist, what's his name? Because you put an innocent in prison. Did she record the conversation? Well, surely. In any case, Julie is afraid. She writes her letter to the DA's attorney.

DA's for a year, they do the dead, it's normal. Crazy stuff. It's a DA that I've been through, so was gone. He didn't answer. I said to him, They didn't want to find me. For 23 years you've been guilty? 23 years, yes. 23 years.

For something I didn't do, but what you have to remember about that, what's serious, is that at the expense of leaving someone guilty outside for all these years. According to Julie's words, it would be to say that there is a real culprit who has been out for all these years.

And you're going to go through, there's an audience, what happened on December 8, 2022, the dates, and so there were 11 men, you're the 12th innocent in France since 1945. Are you going? Yes, yes, but she is not there.

She is being represented by her lawyer. What happens when they say innocent? I arrive with Master Berton. What happens is that I almost felt sick. In reality, what's impressive is that 23 years of destruction,

they do it like that. They tell me, you're innocent, in one word. Fuck. I've been fighting to say it for 23 years, but no one believes me. What you have to remember is that I say it.

Am I guilty? I'm guilty.

I say it.

Am I innocent? I'm innocent. And when do people listen to me? Why? Why more than me? That's what we need to remember. We need to be careful. If I had to give to the police, the police, etc.

They should wear a cap and do a proper investigation. Not judge a person because she is like this or that. No, they should judge facts. And not believe that she come from a good family. There are people who come from a poorer, more modest or more popular family. And they are very good people, even if they made one or two mistakes in their life.

But in any case, we have to remember one thing. She says, I'm guilty, I'm guilty. I'm innocent, I'm innocent. That means that her word has always weighed, while mine has never been heard. Who did you go to court with, in the last trial, where they were innocent? Master Berton and his colleagues. You weren't with your family? No, I wanted to protect them.

And again, I'm a very prudent person, very... I'm very prudent and I'm really scared for my family and my children, so I preferred the... It's very complicated, because I had to discuss with my daughter, discuss with the parents, with the school principal, and tell them, I'm going to be innocent. Why sir?

For a joke. You know,

Yeah.

Never smoke without a light. How many children do you have?

Two.

Patrick Dill has been in prison for 13 years. Same, innocent after 13 years behind bars. That's what he learned. It's 13 years behind bars. It's the same, he spent his 13 years behind bars. You've already lived one year, how hard is that? He was innocent and he was remunerated by the French state.

He had a compensation of 1 million euros for 13 years. It's not worth it. Nothing is worth 13 years of life.

Wow.

So, your innocence was proven three years ago. Did you receive a financial compensation?

How did you...

Well, we're in the process of doing that, Berton is looking for that. Your lawyer?

Yes.

What really bothered me, beyond the state's financial compensation, because... I think it's the conviction for calumny of Julie Day.

Beyond that...

Was she judged or not? No. In fact, you should know that I filed a complaint against her, I was summoned on April 20, 2023. Besides, even on that last day, I should have been with my mother. I was heard and when I was filing my statement to file a complaint against her,

my mother died. So I had a call to the police station to say, listen, your brother wants to talk to you. So my brother, my big brother calls me and says, Mom, she just died. That is, until the end, they took me ...

Yes, your moments of life. Yes, they really took me ... Did she know you were innocent? Yes, yes. She held on for a year, my mother. When you got the file, she knew. Ah, a year, she didn't tell you?

She held on for a year. She told me, and by the way, we thought she was denying it, she told me, I'll be there, Farid, what's that? I said, but she doesn't realize, I was told she only has one for three days, mom. And like what, with the strength, the energy, she managed to hold on for a year. And your father too, your father who left afterwards?

15 days after my innocence, he had a heart attack. They both knew you, innocently?

Yes, yes, yes.

15 days for my father, 15 days for me rest of your life. Before the last question, I have two. Did you have a contact with Julie or Julie's family since? Did they apologize to you? Did there be a letter? No, because for example, when we went on 7 to 8, apart from having words to say to her parents, I think it's someone who really only thinks about her.

I really think she has a pathology that makes her not even realize it. Why did you invite her to 7-8? I didn't see. 7-8 was... We did the... I did several shows, but it was about this story. Did they invite her too?

No, they... She talked for five minutes, but always the same strategy, crying. So crying, of course. She always the same strategy, crying. So crying, obviously.

She said it was wrong, yes.

She said she didn't know why she did that, whereas in reality she could have stopped him from the start. Today you have children, you are built, you have a wife, you managed to build yourself, etc. Today you said you changed jobs, what can we do? What's next for you? In reality, you have have imagined that this story would have done me good.

It did me good for my parents, but at the same time, it destroyed my castle of cards. Everything I had created, I had created around blood. And in reality, it hurts more than good. It's weird to say, but... you live like that for 23, 24 years, and once again, I think that justice

owes me, owes me, owes me the right to end this story. And when I see that today, my complaint has been two years, three years, that it's on the file, that it's been filed, that it's been recognized, that it's been given all the evidence,

that it lied, that she killed my family, that she incarcerated me, that she destroyed me, and that they're doing nothing, it's unbearable. And it's really this message... And yet I wrote to the president, I wrote to Mr. Darmanin,

I wrote to Mr. Dupont-Moretti, but nothing is done. And I think that at some point, a long time ago, the prosecutor who has the file on his desk, decides to say, it must go through a calumny. And everything that...

Everything that has happened from this calumny. What can we wish for you for the future? For me, it's that my children have a good future and that it doesn't happen anymore. I think that... If I have a message to and that it's not happening anymore. I think that if I have a message to pass on, it's not me. It's done. In reality, what has been destroyed in me is destroyed.

So I built around that. I had the strength, and I pray to God, to be able to continue to hold on. Because I have moments when I'm weaker than others, or moments when I'm angry, etc. And that's perfectly logical. But I think that a lesson to be learned is that justice has to question itself. It still has a lot of issues to deal with. It has to improve, it has to admit.

And today it's very complicated. They want young people to vote, but how can you vote when you no longer trust the system or the justice? It's not possible. And they have to set examples and show them. Thank you Farid.

Thank you very much. For coming to us. It's not easy to talk, to tell your story. In any case, you did very well. It allowed us to understand what you've been through. It's not easy to sum up in a few hours. Well, in less than two hours, I tried to sum it all up.

But thank you for taking the time. Thank you. For coming, for explaining everything. We really lived with you. It was a movie. And I'm not surprised that one day,

there are people who call you, in fact, following the show, maybe, to re-adapt it into a movie. If there are any who are interested, I know you are. It's interesting to show these life stories. Thank you to the whole team for preparing the show. Thank you all for following us.

As every Wednesday, Friday and Sunday, we put three interviews or documentaries each week. We put interviews, we also put in podcast audio. If you are doing sports, if you are working or doing something else, you can listen to us on the road, on Spotify, Deezer, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Podcasts, thanks for making people the first podcasts in France, 150,000, 200,000 almost this month, to subscribe to our YouTube channel.

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Yes.

Oh yes, yes, of the next releases. I kiss you anyway and we'll see you soon for a next video on Legend. Oh yes, yes, of the next releases. I kiss you anyway and we'll see you soon for a next video on Legend.

Ciao everyone! I'm out. Bye!