Disparé por miedo a que mataran a mis hijos | Doña Carlota #Penitencia 184 #entrevista

Penitentiary, through Fundación Reinserta, supports children in contact with violence. You This is a video clip from the previous episode.

I was working and I received a call from the neighbors,

telling me that all my furniture was being stolen.

I was very upset, and I was working and I got a call from the neighbors, telling me that all my furniture was being stolen. That same afternoon I went to Eduardo and I said, Eduardo, let's go to Chalco because they are stealing my furniture. And apparently they want to invade the house. I put my key in, opened the first first door and the second door was already closed.

So I proceeded to change the sheet and that's when these people arrived. I was looked at with a lot of contempt, with a lot of hatred. At that moment, that boy, as he was so aggressive, he made me cut the cartridge.

But I put the insurance on him and all I wanted was to intimidate him.

Ma Carlota. Ma Carlota. Ma Carlota. Is it for Maria Carlota or for Mama Carlota?

No, no, no. That's how they put me in the life insurance.

Why?

I don't know. Because she know they do what they want. When was she born?

Not long ago, when my husband died. They gave me my health insurance.

For your pension?

For my pension.

And they put me like this. But her name is not Maria Carlota or anything?

All women are Maria, right?

Well, yes, that's true.

How is she? How does she feel? Yes, that's true. How are you? How do you feel? I'm fine, miss. How is the prison treating you?

Well, fine.

We've been fine, at least. That's good. The one I see that is a little bad is Lalo, right? Your son. He looks sadder.

They have him in protection, he's isolated. Sometimes it's more lonely. With women it's more about living together, companionship. You're with your daughter, right? I'm with my daughter. How long has it been since you last saw your son?

I see him on Fridays. On Fridays. Once a week you live together?

Every 15 days.

How is that living together? Yes, every Friday. Once a week? Yes, every 15 days. How is that? It's good. We give each other love and advice. And encouragement. Are you going to take him with you? I'm going to take him here.

I want you to tell me, Mm-hmm. I have a son, his name is Arturo and he works socially.

We support him.

What does it mean to work socially? It means that he works for the people, politically. Tell me a little more about Arturo's work. Arturo has been a deputy. Ok. Tell me about your other children. is Arturo. And your daughter? And my daughter. Mariana. Mariana. Tell me about you. Where did you grow up? Tell me about your family. Did you study? When did you get married? I am from the state of Guerrero. From a small town over there, from Ciranda de los Chavos.

My town is called Guayameo. Okay, Guayameo. Okay. Guayameo. Guayameo. Alla naci y despues me vine aqui a la ciudad con una hermana que tengo. A que edad? Me vine como a los 13, 14 años. A que se dedicaban sus papas? Mi mama siempre vivio ella sola. Ella no tuvo My mother always lived alone, she didn't have a husband. My father was married. So your mother was the housewife.

Yes, she was the housewife. But she died, my father died too, he died in the United States. And you, at 13 years old, came to live in the U.S.? Yes, I came to take care of my sister because she was married here and when she had her babies she would call me and say, come here so you can help me. And she was sick too. And I stayed here.

I met my husband here and we got married. y si estaba enferma también. Y ya me fui quedando acá. Acá conocí a mi esposo y nos casamos. ¿A qué edad conocí a su esposo?

Como a los 17.

Chiquita. Estaba chiquita y él también estaba chiquita.

¿Y tuvieron cinco hijos?

Tuvimos cuatro. Ah, cuatro, claro. Cuatro.

¿Y usted hasta qué año, Mrs. Macarlota? I studied in the elementary school here in the city. In Guerrero, no? No, I studied a few years there, but I finished it here. In the city, my husband made me study. He said, you're going to study.

Why didn't you finish school there?

Because the children came, and you had to take care of them. There in...

No, there wasn't... There wasn't until... Until sixth grade. I was in elementary school for three, four, five years.

And that's it?

Uh-huh.

And that's why? And another reason, because you don't have responsibilities. What did you do instead of going to school in your town? We did jobs with my mom. What kind of jobs? She sold food, she did everything.

She sold food, she sold sheets, she sold everything. She did all the work and in that she took care of the chickens. She raised chickens.

And in that we had fun.

So you know that your husband and your wife are going to start studying.

Yes, they are going to start studying.

Because I need them to study. Yes, they are going to start studying.

Because I need them to study. Why did you want them to study? Because he was a lawyer too. And he said, no, I'm not going to use it. I'm not going to use it to have my meetings and all that. If you open up more with the letter,

you can connect more. Defend yourself, education opens up. Yes, defend yourself, walk wherever you want, read the streets and all that. Do you like to study?

Yes, yes, I like it.

Only that later the children came. How old was he when he had his first child? Arturo is 55 years old.

And you?

I don't remember how old I was. And you are 74 years old? 74. So you must have been 19 years old. I must have been 19 or 20. And your children came and you left school?

Yes, I left school. Did you finish elementary school? Yes, I finished elementary school. And not high school? I didn't go to high school. I had a time studying anthropology.

There were high school classes, but I couldn't be at school all the time. I was busy taking care of Arturín. Your children. Did you like being a mother?

Yes, it's the most beautiful thing.

I think so, but I don't know if everyone thinks the same. No, I felt very happy with my children. Raising babies. It's nice, the motherhood.

It's nice, yes.

What memories does Macarlota have of his town? Of Guerrero? Beautiful. Beautiful. All of them. All of my memories of Guerrero. All of my friends there. I remember my friends a lot. almost my family is also a few.

They have died as life goes on.

Yes, life goes on.

Your husband died a few years ago. He died in the year of the pandemic. In 2020. He died of cancer. He did not die of the huh the movie of the cancer cancer I was holding on and we did everything we could to operate him, but he didn't want to. He said he didn't want to operate. Why? I don't know. He was so afraid of surgery.

But we begged him to have surgery so he could be with us. But he didn't want to and he left. Very painful, I imagine. Very painful, yes. But in the end he made his decision. How do you make your life without him, without your husband after so many years together? Well, the same. And supporting each other. Arturo has supported me a lot. These two, and San Vicente, they have all supported me a lot.

I would say that you are a united family. Yes, we are all united. Mrs. Macarlota, you are now known.

Yes.

Through social media.

Through social media. is to and the public stopped them, my family. It had a very direct impact on me and the way I see things to this day. It changed our lives in 360 degrees. This video, which was recorded by these people who invaded my sister Mariana's house,

it records some events.

I say some events because many things happened before.

What happened? How did you experience that day? Well, I took it as bad luck that we went to see the house that day. We shouldn't have gone. Why did you go? We went because we already had, I think two weeks that we weren't going. We were going to eat there. She had her furniture that she was buying little by little, Mariana.

And we were going to eat there for a while and we were there all day and then we would go but that day we found people there. No, and we already had a lawsuit, we had seen them there and we filed a lawsuit. My son, as he said, he is a poor lawyer. It hurts me more than anything. Because he did his career and now he is here in a problem. With all the pleasure in the world, he finished his career thinking he was going to work.

Being a lawyer. be a lawyer.

To be a lawyer.

Not to be on this side of justice.

Yes. Yes, no.

So you went and you knew that those people were already there. So what was the objective of going? We went to see, because we went first to the mayor first. To the public ministry. To see how the lawsuit was going. And they almost sent us to jail.

So they made fun of Lalo, because he's a new lawyer. He says, let's go, the man is just making fun of me. I said, yes, let's go.

And on the way, we thought, let's go around and see if they are still there.

And there we go.

They tried to do things right. The General Justice of the State of Mexico, Nista Paluca, the public ministry that primarily attended the events gave them a job to go to the City Council of Chalco, in particular to the General Directorate of Municipal Police. They do not attend them, however, they are accused of receiving that job.

As best they can, they manage to get five policemen who were on the street to accompany them and when these policemen find out what people they were, who the invaders were, they literally left them alone to their luck and that's how this whole plot, this whole problem, that part of it was recorded in this video

that we are also going to use as part of our defense.

How was that situation for you? What do you remember about that situation? We arrived and they were there putting furniture and all that. And we went to the house and we talked to her. I talked to the lady. The lady was outside calling her henchmen with her cell phone.

And I told her, look, ma'am, get out. I don't want to hurt you and I don't want you to hurt us. Go away, calm down, we're going to withdraw that complaint and you go away. Because you're going to be as hurt as I am. And he didn't bother me. And he started, on the contrary, to call all the kids.

And there was one who was very angry. And then another one came from the other side. And he said, get out of the house, it's mine. And Neso jumped the other day. And he said, yes, let's get him. And then he came to me like this, and I grabbed him.

In the same video, you can see and hear a shot of some others that were in advance. That is, they were attacked. It is not a secret that a shot is heard, at least a previous shot, against my family. And that's when, for example, Eduardo uncovers his gun. Nobody knew that Eduardo had a gun.

My mother was a little more obvious because she is a woman who uses dress and she can't hide a firearm. And I repeat, the video was very impactful, but we will also use it as part of our defense.

When did you decide to take a gun? Why did you bring a gun? I took it because we saw them there. I said, those people are murderers too. I said, they will want to kill us. And if they want to take us, what's the point of defending ourselves? That's why I took it. I've never taken it in my life.

And why did you have a gun in your house?

I had a gun that my husband bought me a long time ago. Because we had a problem when Arturo was little. There was a gang in the neighborhood and they shot Arturo. He was shot in the neck. We didn't have anyone to defend us. We just ran and took him to the doctor.

His friends took him to the doctor. And my husband says, take it.

So that if one day it is offered, we will not hesitate to have to defend ourselves. And did they have another weapon too? Which was the one that the girl was carrying? Yes.

And two weapons?

I think it is... It must have been somewhere, I don't know where it was. but she was there for many years. And they took her away. They say that Marianita said, F*** the bastards. Marianita always kept quiet.

Before she said, let's go mom.

But we couldn't go because they whole lot of us.

But you know, I'm also going to be able to get you a chance to answer. Okay, maybe you can so get a corruption. It's not in the South. of the public ministries. Yes, the delinquency will not end and we will always be there.

When not us, we will fall into the hands of those people.

Justice will be at the moment when we achieve a sentence, because we are going to achieve a sentence that determines that it was a legitimate defense and that of course it is an absolute sentence. From the moment that many evidences began to be uncovered, which in particular I was gathering, such as videos,

we began to do investigations on our own, we clearly saw how they were covered up among these invaders with people from the public service. I can tell you that we are going to achieve, in this intermediate stage, that this will turn 360 degrees.

I want to thank you, using your media, Saskia, all the people who have supported us, thousands of people throughout the Mexican Republic, even crossing borders at an international level. We have received a lot of support, a lot of support, and I want to tell you from here that we have to denounce and we have to defend the right to property, but above all we have to

defend the right to life in this country.

Thank you very much, Arturo. Thank you for being here today in Penitencia.

Thank you, Saski.

When did you decide to take up arms? I told him at the moment I spoke to the lady, because the police were coming from one side and the other. And I saw that there were many of them. And I said, I'm not calling the boys anymore, ma'am, get out. Do me this favor. And no, and that's when the boy came to me.

But they had already shot Mariana a few times. I didn't know. And that's in the video. But I saw a girl who was recording from above. And I told her, as I told Arturo, this is not going to work on one side, and not on the other. Why? Because the video says a lot of things,

but I don't know. And I don't know if it's going work and for the other it didn't. Why? Well, because the video says a lot of things that I've never denied. I wanted them to catch me better and not my children. I, preferably, I wanted to pay the crime myself.

But...

Why, Mrs. Carlota? Because I had already done that. The truth is, those people were against me. And I said, we're not going to make it out of here alive. That's the first thing I thought. And that my children die, and others die.

And there they go. He can move my secret signal and others

This point I can't even show you yeah, yeah, okay, okay, but sir

Jorge never gracias for starting on the photos gran penalista

con mucho experiencia

Tell us come with your case to the temple to analyze this case. My first question is, what is your first impression, as well as your take on this case, with everything you know, both from the interview you saw and from what the public has to say.

I would say, mainly, that when I saw this case and when I was studying it, the first thing that comes to mind is, how relaxed, I mean, everything happened. Some friends that got into a house, that committed a crime, then others that went to get their house back,

that with the product, according to what they themselves narrate, with the product of their effort and their work, they had bought, and then they get to that house with some weapons, another crime, for so you so trabajo avian comprado into a gana esa casa con unas armas otro delito a querer recuperar su casa no y disparan más tan alguien a dos personas

entonces como que antes habían ido a la fiscalía habían ya presentado una denuncia como que te pones a pensar que un caso tan común porque no tiene nada de especies o esto pasa muchísimo el tema los despojos en méxico es algo bien relevante a nivel nacional entonces lo primero que yo te diría es un poco que complica que complica que complicado caso pero al mismo tiempo decirte esto es uno un caso que pasa diario muchas veces en toda la república mexicana tristemente

cuéntame justo esto que me acabas de mencionar cómo está el panorama en méxico porque yo a mí lo que me pasó cuando entrevisté a la señora carlota bueno antes que entrevistarle y conocerla y a sus hijos verlo en las noticias no ese video that went viral, that we all saw, to say, what a despair of the people. Because I also know that the issue of eviction is a very big problem in Mexico,

but tell me a little bit about how big that problem is and why it is a reality in Mexico. Where are we failing the owners or the people? What is the judgment?

Yes, yes, yes.

Look, I gave myself the task, precisely for this conversation with you, to find out a little bit where we were standing in terms of dispossession. And the most recent data that has been published on it, you know that lately the issue of data is a relaxation,

but the last figure is that more or less the average Los datos más recientes que hay publicados en el ya sabes que últimamente es un relajo el tema de los datos Pero la última cifra es que más o menos el promedio son 30 mil casos al año a nivel nacional que se denuncian Que es de los que se saben no normalmente es así fray real doble o triple

Si porque mucha gente aquí tomaron fuerza de venganza por primera mano pero mucha gente sabe que son unos malandrines quizá los que están adentro y prefieren desistir claro porque But a lot of people know that they are maybe some thieves who are inside and prefer to give up.

Of course, because they put other legal assets at risk, like life, for example. So it's a very, very big problem. The truth is that I think that, as the system is designed, I mean, they themselves say it, we went to the prosecutor's office, we filed a complaint for evasion and no one did anything. And so that's why we had to go armed, which doesn't justify it, lo dicen no fuimos a la fiscalía presentamos una denuncia por despojo y nadie hizo nada y entonces por eso tuvimos que ir nosotros armados que no lo justifica pero digamos ellos tomaron resolver su problema que ojo

puede ser el problema de tu vida así toda la vida trabajaste por una casa y te despojan de tu casa es el problema de tu vida no pocas cosas serían más for to have the despair of having a criminal justice system that tells you, oh, ma'am, no, this, no, and from here to what we can achieve, because you can imagine. I said that he managed to file a complaint.

Yes, exactly. I said that he managed to file a complaint, which was surely 25 hours, and then the public prosecutor said, no, ma'am, it's going to be very difficult, and then these people are very dangerous, and then they're going to go to trial.

Almost, almost, do us a favor, give them the property.

Or go and...

And try to negotiate, or see what you can do. I also want to give a place to that, that people, I'm going to lie to my mother, but at this point I'm already getting used to it a little bit. It's... understanding also, that again, violence doesn't justify it,

but how hopeless it can be that you work your whole life to buy a piece of furniture, and suddenly, with your hand on your waist,

you don't even have an effective figure. Without a doubt. That you can defend yourself and say, I'm I think that any crime has this component, right? And obviously in every case, you want to go and solve it yourself. But imagine the mess. If the Constitution didn't forbid us, as a supreme rule, you can't do justice by your own hand,

fuck, we would all be armed, solving our problems. And then we go back to the old, right? We also have to understand why this is like this. We can't justify it.

We understand it, but we can't justify it. I understand perfectly that we can't justify it, and we are not justifying it in this space. In the end, there are two dead people, and that can never be justified. How many bullets did you take?

I took... I took four.

And Lalo?

I didn't know how Lalo got there and he took one of mine from above and the other one, the one on this side, ran away. When he saw his companions falling well, they fell and he left he said he was going to take my car and everything he said, ok, you want everything, everything will be for you, ok

and then I threw him is I would kill them both. But first the boy. He was very aggressive. What was your reaction when you detonated the gun and saw him fall?

I was very angry. I was very angry and my reflection was... Either we die here or we live here. That was my reflection. Then we got very scared. After the attack, we were very affected.

We went home.

What house did you go to? I had an apartment that my husband left me. Where did Arturo live? No, Arturo lives separately. I lived there with Mariana and Lalo. Did you go there or did you go somewhere else? We didn't go there and I was thinking of going to Guerrero.

To flee? We went there and I was thinking of going to Guerrero.

To flee? Yes, to flee, but I didn't say it.

If I go to Guerrero, they will catch me too because of the video. I'm not going to get to Toluca.

And they will catch me.

Do you remember the first time you saw the video?

Yes.

Tell me.

Yes, I saw it.

I was there. Withénteme. Si lo vi, pues estaba yo.

Con mi pistola. La verdad que, Dios me perdone. Y este, y la señora entonces corrió a llorar y a pedir ayuda. Le digo, se lo dije.

Ahora estoy jodida. Ya esta jodida usted. Y ahorita quiere que I told her I was screwed and she said,

you're screwed.

And now she wants us to let her go. I told her, no, I'm not letting her go. She won't let me go. You need to forgive me. And she said she didn't want me to go out on my own to be on the lookout. Because I was very bad.

If you go and report something, what always happens is that an investigation is initiated, certain acts are initiated, to not use the technical terms.

Bureaucratic. Burocráticos.

Burocráticos, ¿no? Que a veces ni siquiera son necesarios. Y hasta que tienes ciertos indicios razonables, suficientes, pues vas con un juez. Y entonces llevas a una persona, un proceso. Para eso pueden pasar meses.

Cuando el proceso penal es muy efectivo y muy eficientes, when there's a flagrant crime, for example. Yes, he caught you at the moment of the events. So, you went into my house, two or three people saw you go in, right there, I, even as a private individual, can stop you, the law doesn't allow it, and then present you, make you available to the authorities, or I call a patrol, and the patrol makes you available through the MP, then the MP to the judge, etc.

That's when the cases go forward in a more efficient way. Of course, because then the police come and get him. But as soon as this case was, I see that there are people, I see that my furniture is gone, I go once, I go again, I report, nothing happens, nothing real happens.

Yes, because that implies for the prosecution to say, okay, then I have to find out, do a document analysis of who that house really is, if these people are who they are, how did they get into the house. Exactly.

Because that leads me to connect to another problem. I mean, many times the one who disposes doesn't know he's disposing. And that's, then it's like, again, I'm going to tell you how these mafias work. Como? I'm gonna say okay to Kieras It'll yeah, that's because I comprovent a see the comprovent a de rendement of the uso de habitación de lo que tu quieras Y entonces tuya has it with this. Oh, yeah, you're a la possession area de esta casa

I just a mic on that. I just a mic on that. Oh, yeah, pronto. Yeah, I know No, so no skater. You know Joe. So you'll do a new you know, Terrence de sacasa Entonces ahí tienes, hay otros problemas involucrados, porque en este caso en particular ellos decían, yo renté esta casa. No sabemos si eso es cierto o no. Pero entonces la fiscalía tendría ese problema.

Tendría que haber un documento.

Tendría que haber un documento.

Aunque sea falso en el aspecto de que se hizo con un ser humano que no es el dueño de la casa.

Es que, sí y no. Porque eso me lleva a otro problema. I know, but I'm sorry to interrupt, but contracts can be verbal. So, imagine that I tell you that I'm a real estate agent, I have the property, I don't have a contract because I rented it out, the law allows that, even though there may be some technical issues.

But you would have to prove it, right?

You would have to prove it.

That you're depositing, right?

So I would have to make a payment, but I paid it in cash. I mean, if you explain it to me, then you get into a series of things where the prosecutor would say, I have to investigate it. And for that, you can imagine.

It's not months anymore, it's years.

Well, it could be years. and you're following up on that issue every day. And that also means spending. Of course, because then you hire a lawyer. You have a series of things. That's why when I saw the case, as I was saying at the beginning, it's a series, it's a revolution of things.

Yes, because here they add the criminal part, add everything, and it got more complicated.

It gets complicated everywhere, because they say, I have possessorial rights, because the eviction protects the possession. to I can't get in even if it's mine, because that's also dispossession. In fact, dispossession protects possession, not property.

Okay?

I mean, by general rule. So, fuck, it's a very complex issue, very complex, that I, without justifying Mrs. Carlota, well, obviously I can understand. I mean, from a point of view of justice, of what has to be mean, from a point of view of justice, of what has to be done, from a point of view,

Mrs. Carlota had her history, and decided to do justice by her own hand. But the others could also have had their history, and defend that they were the owners of that house, with a sword and a cloak, because they had paid a rent.

So, what do we do? So, here you have two victims, technically. Casa a capa y espada porque habían pagado una renta no aquí tienes víctimas técnicamente pose si fue el caso de objetivo tenemos dos víctimas y entonces hay que seguir a san el que digamos con el supuesto porque ojo no sabemos si estas personas realmente eran para que hay vistas o este realmente habían hecho algún tipo de contrato con algún farsante este hay que seguiría depende para quien para doña carlota para cualquiera de los dos a ver

sería buscar al estafador y que el haga la reparación del daño es que sí pero imagínate quién es

obviamente entonces si me explico la complejidad del problema lo justo para el que renta es I understand the complexity of the problem. The fair thing for the one who rents is that he is respected for his right to own, because he is a real estate leaseholder. There may be nullity or not, because the contract is signed. I understand there are other problems, civil problems. The fair thing for Carlota is that after investigating, it is determined, maybe I didn't fire you because I didn't put myself in the position of authority,

but I did it because I thought I was the person who...

Yes, I was doing it with someone who owns the property.

Maybe. So it's not a fire, but you can't stay. But that involves a civil judge, who resolves a controversy between individuals, between people.

Because in the end you paid. In the end you paid. Particular is in terms of a nasty Alvin altoon menos man una renta pero imagínate si compras de sin mueble Oh que pasa muchísimo también porque te has salón el patrimonio económico de una persona Contra el patrimonio de un bien de otra persona es correcto y entonces a quien le paga o sea yo que te regreso tu casa pero que me paga a mí el dinero que ahora ahí debería de haber una responsabilidad también de del civil There should be a responsibility of the tenant,

if the one who rents, or the one who buys, to say, prove to me that this is really you.

Of course, it should be like that, because that's why there's a formality in contracts. For example, when you buy a property, you have to go with a notary. That's a contract, when you buy a property, there's a formality. The notary. That's a contract. When you buy a property,

you have to have a formality. That's why the notary is so important. Because it checks that the seller is the one who can sell, that he is registered, public property, that he is paid at the current rate, etc.

It retains your taxes, even the entire SAT. The notary is a kind of server. It lends of public service provider, without being a public service provider, but this gives you certain guarantees.

That's why you don't hear, I bought a house, and it turns out that the one who sold it to me is little. It's rare that that happens.

It's more of a rent issue.

But that's already a much more complex crime. For example, there is a whole network, and the prosecutors are very concerned about that, but there it's more sophisticated there. Why is it more complicated? Because if I want to make a scheme of real estate fraud, what works in practice today is the owner's writings

are false writings that the registrar, let's say, falsified in the record. So it has to be colluded. It has to be colluded. With the record,, let's say, falsified in the record. So it has to be colluded with the record. You, with a lawyer, because it is something very technical, and with the... I would tell you that maybe the notary could be wrong,

but maybe also colluded. If you explain it to me, it is a series of collusions, already very important, but let's say that is another topic. Something much more complex, which happens a lot too.

Now, in Mexico you have... digamos que es otro tema algo ya mucho más complejo que pasa muchísimo también ahora en México tienes ahorita nos clavamos en este tema de en el supuesto que haya dos víctimas que es que alguien hay un tercero que le vio la cara a estas personas que ahora están adentro del mueble y estas verdaderas dueños son estas no ahora partamos de otra cosa apartamos de que las personas que tomaron el inmueble en este caso las víctimas en el caso deña Carlota a gamos el supuesto de que ellos se metieron porque dieron la casa sola

entonces despojar a y si serían claramente hubieran cometido el delito de despojo Y entonces pues ellos también entiendo que están procesados por ese delito I also understand that they are being prosecuted for that crime. Yes, they are in prison and one of them has already been sentenced for the crime of espionage. Because they did not believe that they had that document, that it had been a verbal contract, that there had been a payment or more, there were no witnesses, receipts in their name, etc. A series of elements that have to exist to prove their theory of the case.

They would have their theory of the case. They didn't prove it, they are condemned.

So, he went to his house, not to Arturo's house.

No. We came to San Vicente, to Odín's house,

and I didn't want to go there because I didn't have the confidence to take the house from Odin. Why? Because we have never lived together there. He apparently lives alone. Do they arrive at Odin's house and that's where you watch the video? Or when do you realize that you watch the video? video I don't know why, but I came back. I was at the house and Odin had a dog. They killed his dog.

I don't know. Do you have an order to arrest us?

Who killed the dog?

The police. Because, logically, the dog was thrown on top of the police because they were hitting Lalo. And, thank God, they didn't hit me, otherwise I would be all swollen up here. Yes, but, well, I start to think, and it was like an accident. I'm a little bit upset. I'm a little bit upset. I'm a little bit upset. I'm a little bit upset. I'm a little bit upset.

I'm a little bit upset. I'm a little bit upset. I'm a to take this off, I'm going to take the other one off, and that car is going to be mine, the Alfa's car. And by the way, they haven't returned it. What did you feel when you saw the video for the first time on the internet? Did you understand what was happening on the internet?

Yes, yes. I knew it was my video.

Did you regret it?

Well, I regret it on one hand, and on the other, no.

Tell me about it.

Because I shouldn't have done it. But if I hadn't done it, I wouldn't be telling you. Do you think they would have been killed? Yes. And we're going to get rid of him. I can't.

He threatened me very hard. And with a lot of courage, as if I was fighting for him. But... I acted as if he was fighting for something. But I think it's because the mayors weren't working properly. Why? What didn't they do? Because they didn't go. They were called and they didn't go to get the people out. On the contrary, they supported them.

So there must be corruption there.

Of course.

A very strong corruption in the municipalities. And as long as there are those corrupts working there, the crime will not end. And now it's my turn, and the next time it will be someone else's turn. And we are all dancing on the board of the Cagonero. Here's a question that is... I've been thinking about the number of times I've been to jail,

Jorge, and I swear I've never met a person for being a vagabond. That gives me even more impotence because I say, it's a crime that I don't think is even being pursued. Sure. This case, because it went viral, is because there is a person today, or two, I don't remember,

accused of being a pervert. But why? Because a lady of Carlota's age, with the mental health issue that talking about Carlota's age and her mental health. It's obvious. And that gives a lot of impotence. So my question for you is, if you had a magic wand, where would you start to solve this problem?

Because it seems like it's a...

a...

a...

If I can answer that question, I'll become president tomorrow.

That's how complex it is. That's how complex it is. If I can answer that question, I'll become president tomorrow. But I'll try. It's that complex?

It's that complex. I would say it's an issue of education. I mean, is everything so over the top? I mean, there are public ministries that deal with a thousand issues. It's impossible. I have 40 issues in my office.

Obviously, certain issues derive derived from other cases. And I prefer not to take certain cases because I prefer to pay attention to my 40 cases, where 10 are in appeal, in support, where they are calm, the others are in movement. Do you understand me? But if you take more cases, you can't. So, an MEP that has 1,000 cases, how are you going to demand that they do their job well? But let me answer you before I go elsewhere. ¿Cómo le vas a exigir que haga bien su chamba?

Pero déjame te contesto antes de irme por otro lado. Yo creo que tenemos, puede ser impopular lo que voy a decir, pero un poco lo que ya está, atacarlo con lo que tenemos y hacer todos los esfuerzos para que eso se haga de la mejor forma. Pero si no educamos a los chavitos en que no se puede despojar, But if we don't educate the kids that you can't be reckless, that you don't steal, that you don't touch a woman without her consent,

that you don't commit...

The basics.

The basics.

The commandments.

The commandments. I'm not Catholic, but you won't kill, you won't touch... I mean, there's not much to do. But if we're not educated, then we can think, what? Can I be reckless without consequences? No, but... No hay mucho de donde hacerlos. Pero si no estamos educados, y entonces podemos pensar, ¿qué? ¿Puedo despojar sin tener consecuencias?

No, pues, ¿qué?

¿Puedo cometer un fraude? ¿Puedo robar? Y desde chiquitos nos vamos acostumbrando. Entonces, es un tema de educación. Pero, de verdad, me hiciste la pregunta más difícil,

yo creo que me han hecho estar difícil. It's very complicated because it has a lot of sides. Because, as you say, the right to housing for people.

Right?

Of course.

I imagine that scene where people put people to live and suddenly, what? You get the lady with her three kids out on the street. I mean, it's awesome.

And then, ah, that's an interesting topic. Because, imagine, I mean, I'll take it to the extreme. You managed to believe that you were stripped of your rights. Everything is ready. They're finally going to return you to your home. And guess what?

There's an old man and two kids. And so we go to the law of, I don't know how, I don't remember, but the law of the old and the law of childhood to see if we can enter or not. Maybe we can't. So, if I may, there's a crossroads of, not of ten, but of a hundred things that collide. Imagine the MP who can't decide either because he's not a judge.

The judge can only decide based on what he has to, which is the civil. The MP of the criminal.

No, no, no, no.

It's very, very complex. Complejisisisimo lo que... O sea, este caso sí retrata, creo yo, un poco a México como país. No por criticar. Hay muchos países mucho peor, ¿no? Muchos países que están mucho más avanzados. Pero sí retrata un poco que es dentro de toda esta amalgama de cosas que están mal, pues yo medio que siempre me las he arreglado. I'm a Push your mediocre siempre melas a regalo. He pushed me manera de regla este problema fue

Push a man a me Banda a me homey a me red apoyo y agarrar las pistolas que tenemos que nos dejó

Lo que sea o contratar a los malandrillos de El barrio y decir wait a day una lana porque me logres a car esta gente de aquí porque el gobierno no está haciendo nada and say, I'll give you some money because I managed to get these people out of here because the government is not doing anything.

And that you're a hope. Yes. Because that's the reality. I mean, I'd love to come and tell you something else, but no one's going to believe me. And besides, it's not the reality.

The reality is that we are in a relationship.

But I love it. And you don't know how I'm enjoying this episode Jorge, this analysis, everyone saw the scene, there were even GIFs and cartoons of Mrs. Carlota with her gun. And we have to take this conversation to a much deeper level. This black thread that is so complex, that goes beyond a woman going and taking justice

by her own hand. It's a very strong scene, she's an old lady and it generates a lot of empathy we all had a grandmother and you say, what had to happen for

Mrs. Carlota

to have had to say, enough, I'd rather go to jail. I don't think there's a senora Carlota si haya tenido que decir ya ya, preferirme a la carcel osea porque tambien yo no creo que haya esa conciencia en ella yo que la conocí de verdad no creo que haya esta conciencia en ella de decir voy a matar

para irme a la carcel pero por lo menos asi voy a hacer justicia osea no hay para nada en su perfil esa maldad pero pero si si tambien creo que that evil. But yes, I also think that a case like this, beyond the empathy with the old lady, etc.,

is the despair of the Mexican and the Mexican woman who have been in that place, to say, what a despair, that my case did not advance, and then I will take justice for my own sake, and it came out. Because I am sure that there was no intention to, so I'm going to take justice for my brothers. And it worked out. Because I'm sure there was no intention to kill. I think there was an intention to... To solve the problem.

To scare. To scare. And say, no, I'm getting in. Because it's not the same to take possession of a house, of people who are going to turn around

and leave, to take possession of people who are going to come with... Yes, because if there was intention, you would come and throw it, right? Maybe here it was a little more of, get out, if I get out, let me make some calls, I made some calls, people arrived, the thing got a little violent, I mean,

right?

That according to the technical things of the case, well, we know the story they tell, but in reality it would have to do with the legal truth, which is something else. One thing is the truth, and another thing is the credit. So, another collision of those 100 roads that I told you about is another one that exists in the experience.

Yes, because it could have happened that the people who are accused today in jail for the crime of eviction have said, no, my lifelong friend recommended these guys to me, who rented the house to me. I'm like have a way to take possession of a property that's not mine. I don't have a way to decredit that that wasn't the way.

So I'm already involved in a much more serious criminal problem than I am in prison today.

Without a doubt. And you as a tenant of a property, you work, you live all day, whatever you want, you pay your rent, you're there, you have a month to live there, and suddenly someone comes along who says he's the owner.

Well, you also defend him.

Of course, how?

You're not going to say, oh yes, sir, sorry, surely I was so stupid that I didn't realize. I mean, you also defend what is yours, talking about yours as if it corresponds to you at that moment, because you rented it. So, how complex.

No, no, it's just that... in me the son is a complicated case, let's not lose sight of the fact that this is more than a meme. It's more than a lady. There are lives behind it. There are lives behind it and there is a reality in Mexico of many families who are in situations like this and who face the wall with the justice system.

And that is what is sometimes lost sight of, sorry to answer you one more time, but behind each case there are people. de vista, perdón que te conteste una más, pero atrás de cada caso hay personas y eso es lo que a veces se nos olvida y me declaro culpable porque a veces también a mí, en mi ejercicio profesional, en el día a día, en la prisa, en el rostro.

Sí, estás tan metido en el expediente, en lo jurídico que…

Que se te puede olvidar que atrás hay una persona. Y entonces tanto del lado de Carlota y su familia como de lo otro lado de personas y también por más que se han metido Los los que fallecieron en ese momento tienen hijos tienen mamás tienen papás entonces es una tragedia por todos lados es una tragedia Nada está bien en este caso es la realidad y pues nada agradecer te saque a cuando quieras yo feliz de venir reality when you want I'm happy to come here and talk to you

I'm going to have you here a thousand times because it was very pleasant to talk to you and I know you are a great great penalist your girlfriend is also a great penalist who is my partner in the project of innocence in prison

that we have here in Penitentiary and in La Cana

so thank you for that space no man, Saskia up to you and your audience, and I hope it's a little bit more... It's more, it's more... It's more confusing than clear, but well...

Inside the confusion I think there is more clarity.

This is a little bit bigger.

Exactly.

How was the... Tell me about the detention, How did you live it? Well, look, two girls grabbed me, two policemen, and Mariana too, and they put us in the cars. And they defended us, the girls, and they didn't let the bullets hit us. But the one who took it well was Lalo. And there was a son of Mariana, a chubby one. We brought him when we went to the city.

I tell you, we wouldn't have brought him. Because when they caught us there, they took us all there. How old is he? He is already old. He is about 29. Is he the one with a disability? Yes, he has a disability.

And who is he with right now? He is with his other grandparents over there. On behalf of his father? Yes. On behalf of his father? He always lost, because he's a man. I'm not going to say I can't write and I'm not going to say I can't write and I'm not going to say I can't write and I'm not going to say I can't write and I'm not going to say I can't write and I'm not going to say I can't write and I'm not going to say I can't write and I'm not going to say I can't write and I'm not going to say I can't write and I'm not going to say I can't write and I'm not going to say I can't beat me, nor Mariana. But, I tell Mariana, everyone beats Lalo because he's a man. Did you see how they beat Lalo?

Yes, they kicked him very badly. He must have felt very bad. He was beaten on his stomach. He must have felt very bad. He was hit in the stomach. He must have felt very bad, I imagine. No, I felt for him more than anything. I feel, but... Well, anyway, that's how things are.

How did you get here? How has your life changed?

Well, being there, just...

Just waiting to see if there's an angel that will get us out. Do you think... The police have taken care of me, they've protected me too,

and they've been good to me.

Do you think, Ma Carlota, that you deserve freedom? Yes, I do think think I deserve it. Why? Because it was in my defense and in defense of my children. I wasn't taking anything away from that woman so she could act that way. She could easily say,

Okay, Mrs. Carlota, I'm leaving. And nothing would have happened to her or to me.

We would have been both alone.

What a difficult situation. What do you think will happen?

Well, who knows?

Maybe, I tell my children, don't start crying if I die here one day. Because I'm already old. You guys do all you want. We have the 70s marked for us to leave at any time. But no. Don't cry when I'm gone.

Cry all you want. God will protect you. Does he sleep with his daughter? Yes. The chin again, I see Kiki you know the protege do me con su hija see No, me mostres. I'm not a big it again You can see don't tell you Yes, I don't tell you activity that is the same Who is this is Salimos a los cursos que dan a kill reclusorio They give us a place to stay. For business.

They are teaching us many things. So that when we leave we have a way to stay. Of course. All of us work there. Only the ones who don't want to do it, don't do anything.

But yes, all of us. They are workers. We are workers. We go to the groups, the groups of Macramé, the groups of La Cana, of Entrepreneurship. The people of La Cana are very good. The people of La Cana are very good.

A great organization that we have to support. They just said goodbye to us. And they were very happy. And we were too.

They do very nice things.

Very nice things. They teach very well. When do you think they will give him the sentence? I don't know yet. And if they do give him the sentence? Arturo is trying not get us out of here. But I see that it's getting difficult for him.

Do you think they will sentence you?

Who knows? If they can't get us out, they will sentence us.

Macarota, thank you. Thank you for talking to us today. Thank you. Anything else you want people to know? Gracias por platicar hoy con nosotros. Gracias a ustedes. Algo más que quiera que la gente sepa? Pues quiero que la gente se una para que no les sucedan estas cosas. Que los vecinos entre vecinos se cuiden. Que si hay protección entre nosotros mutuos no va a suceder fácilmente esto. Claro. If there is mutual protection between us, this will not happen easily.

And that governments are better to work for the laws. If they are laws, let them be laws. I'm not saying they will be able to do it with all the crime, because it's a lot. But little by little, if they start removing corruption,

all this has to go down.

I'm sure it will. But first of all, I wish all my Mexicans who have supported me, here I am, as long as I'm alive, this is how it will be. And if you support each other, you're going to achieve something big for the country. Yes, against the criminals.

Let it be so.

Let it be so. Let it be so.

Thank you, Macarona.