EXCLUSIVE: Khanna, Massie LAUGH At JD Vance On Joe Rogan

So we've got a special treat this morning in studio.Both congressmen, part of the Dream Team here, Thomas Massey and Ro Khanna.Great to see you both.Welcome.Good to see you, Sarah.So you guys have obviously teamed up on a number of initiatives, but you have a new one that you wanted to bring to us today, Congressman Massey, about the Epstein transparency.

Tell us what you're pushing forward now.

Well, yesterday was the one year anniversary of the introduction of the Epstein Files Transparency Act that Ro Khanna and I wrote.And we thought it was time to do a sequel because the first bill has been very successful.We got three million documents released.But there have been some dragging of feet by the attorney general and the acting attorney general.And so, you know, this is to spur the next level.Specifically, the main thing that this new bill does that we've introduced is forces the U .

S.attorney general to cooperate with state attorneys general that want to prosecute Epstein co -conspirators under state law.And it turns out in New Mexico, that's where the Zorro Ranch was.You hear a lot about Epstein Island.You hear almost nothing about Zorro Ranch, but it was expansive.It was massive.

People were going there all the time.Crimes were committed there.And some of those aren't barred by statute of limitations.And so the Attorney General in New Mexico would like to prosecute those crimes.And so we're making it easier with this bill.

That's one of the things it does.sign the Epstein -Files Transparency Act.He said that he did it completely of his own volition, that the idea that the two of you kind of dragged them to it was ridiculous because nobody controls Donald Trump.I'm curious for both of you.Congressman Connolly, you could start.

Well, in the history of the Trump administration is written, what Massey and I did will be seen as the most decisive blow to Trump that began the unraveling of his presidency.I mean, no one had stood up to Donald Trump before, effectively.And Trump tried every everything, including intimidating Thomas' colleagues, Lauren Boebert and Nancy Mace and Marjorie Taylor Greene.Some of them he brought into the Situation Room to get them not to support this.They adjourned Congress.They didn't swear in Adelita Grijalva.

They tried everything.Then what happened?Not only did They realized that we were going to pass the act.Donald Trump realized that he was going to get probably 80 to 90 Republicans to be willing to overturn his veto.Right.And that's when he signed the act.

And he told J .D.Vance to go into the Situation Room and start the cover up.But what this did, it's not just about justice for survivors, which is important.After this, now there are, what, 100 discharge petitions?Now suddenly everyone is willing to defy the law.

Donald Trump, and we changed the entire culture in the Congress.

Do you agree with that, Congressman?

Yeah, absolutely.I mean, we dragged him kicking and screaming to signing this.I asked to be invited to the bill signing.I think I'm the first congressman who's ever got a bill passed that wasn't invited to the bill signing.

That's true.

I've never heard of it.And they did it in secret, like in a, in a room with no cameras.I mean, you never see that happen.And at one point the White House said that would be a hostile act toward the president for any Republican to co -sign the discharge petition.And you had Jeff Freeland, who's the legislative affairs director for the president on Capitol Hill.I saw him going up and down the street and through the halls.

running around trying to get people's names off of this bill, trying to keep people from sponsoring it.There's no way they wanted this to happen.And then what was the fallout?I mean, Howard Lutnick, we found out that the guy who's behind Donald Trump on Air Force One and behind the Resolute desk, the guy who's always standing there, that guy took his family to Epstein Island for a little picnic after claiming on TV that he had nothing to do with Jeffrey Epstein.The man was so disgusting, he would have nothing to do with him.And, you know, but what we need right now is accountability.

And that's what this bill gets to.The other there's a couple other things the bill does that I'd love to explain.So, you know, in the hearings we saw yesterday, what was with Todd Blanche with his nomination, what was painfully obvious is he's ignoring the victims.And they can't even get their own files.He's still withholding files.Testimony that the victims gave to the FBI, and we know it exists on 302 forms, the victims, the survivors, the ones who are still alive, they know it's there and they can't get it.

So our bill gives those victims standing and the U .S.court to sue the attorney general to get their own files.That's really important.The other thing it does is the DOJ, this hasn't been widely reported, but twice they've told us in Congress in like these little notes or memos to Congress that we're using deliberative process privilege in order not to give you some of these documents.And our bill, our original bill said, you've got to tell us about your decisions on whether to prosecute or not prosecute, but they're withholding all those files.

That's the nub of this is why didn't they prosecute people like Leslie Wexner, Leon Black, Jess Staley, people who in their own files show that they had information on enough that at one point that Leslie Wexner was listed on an FBI document as a co -conspirator in a child sex trafficking ring.is Leslie.Groff, the Epstein's main assistant who helped traffic the women.So what this will do is it takes away unambiguously, we believe our first bill did anyway, but unambiguously it says you don't have these special privileges that you can exert to withhold files.And finally, it gives Roe and I standing to go to a court, get in front of a judge and have a judge have the, third branch of government adjudicate whether the executive branch is complying with the law that the legislative branch wrote and the president signed.

And Congressman Massey, you know, you were successfully defeated in your primary.Successfully defeated?What does that mean?

It's like a jumbo shrimp.

From there, yeah, never expected.

By the way, if Trump wanted to voluntarily sign this, he should have been endorsing Massey, not campaigning for him.

And that's the point is, you know, you cross Trump and you cross the Israel lobby.They dumped, what, $30 million against you.Their effort, from their perspective, was successful in getting you out.But I am curious if you agree with Congressman Khanna that your efforts on Epstein were a blow to the Trump administration.And I don't think that that was your goal.That's not the way you have framed it.

But it does seem like it created a fracture in the base and was kind of the start of his approval rating really beginning to fall off.

Well, I think it was self -inflicted by the president.He went on TV and said, if you think there's any there there in these Epstein files, you are no longer a supporter of mine.I don't want your support.He told MAGA, you're no friend of mine if you still want to pursue this promise that I made.paid.Right.

So he basically fractured right in half maggot.And, uh, he lost Marjorie Taylor green on this.I mean, this was, he called her a traitor for, for pursuing the Epstein files transparency act.Right.Like I might've had other infractions like voting against the big, beautiful bill or, or not voting for Mike Johnson, but Marjorie Taylor green had been loyal to the president.And the only place that she

was on the Epstein files.He told her on the phone, and she related this to me immediately when it happened, that, you're gonna hurt my friends if you persist in getting these files released.And so, it was, I wouldn't, I don't, Roe gives us too much credit for inflicting this damage.At MIT, we call this ballistic podiatry, which is, shooting yourself in the foot, right?We gave him the opportunity.But also, I really think the credit goes to the survivors.

And it was Roe who invited them for the first time to be heard on the steps of the Capitol, right there in front of the Capitol.We gave them a voice.There were people who had never been public before.It wasn't worth the risk to them.They came out.It's said that they were, you know, had been victims, were survivors and told their stories.

And I think that's what motivated our colleagues eventually to vote nearly unanimously to pass this.

You know, one thing I haven't said, one of the reasons the partnership with Massey and I works, Thomas is an MIT guy.

He knows all the details.

You know, you want to understand discharge petition, this rule, that rule.Thomas knows all of that.And you need to know all of that to achieve what we did.I helped bring the survivors and organized that press conference twice.in front of the Capitol, and that changed public opinion, and that helped make sure that we could pass it.And it was the teamwork with different complementary skills, not just across the aisle, that allowed us to get the Epstein files passed.

One more thing, if the president is so gung -ho to get these files out, why are they still dragging their feet and exerting every privilege they can to redact anything they can?

Well, to both of your point, you know, you meant, Crystal mentioned the Israel lobby.There's been a lot of talk about that.Jeffrey Epstein, his connection to Israel.The administration has officially denied it.I believe Todd Blanch, you know, in his interview with Ghislaine Maxwell, and yet the vice president again yesterday on the Joe Rogan experience said it is clear that Jeffrey Epstein had connections to the highest levels of American intelligence and Israeli intelligence.Let's take a listen and we'll get both of your reactions.

He clearly had connections to the upper – the highest levels of American intelligence.He clearly had connections to the highest levels of Israeli intelligence.In fact, one of the interesting story – one of the interesting things the Epstein saga reveals about – and I try to make this point.One of the reasons why I'm always careful, and I say there are some elements within the Israeli government who don't like our peace process, because there are a lot of elements within the Israeli government that actually do like our peace process.They recognize that this indefinite campaign is not good for them either.And the Epstein thing is interesting because as much as I know, you know, Prime Minister Netanyahu, not a particularly popular person in the United States of America right now, Epstein seemed to be connected to the elements of the Israeli deep state that were left of center.

Like, I've always found that fascinating.It wasn't like he was super connected to the right of center of Israeli politics.

So an interesting clip there, you know, both confer—well, at least, you know, he's the highest—fewest official on record to say he had connections to the U .S.intelligence and to Israeli intelligence.Never been confirmed before either by the—actually been denied by Mossad and definitely also been denied by the U .S.intelligence.

But he also seems to try and to separate Epstein from the current coalition government, including Israel.Congressman Conner, I'm just curious for your reaction considering, you know, these comments from the vice president.

First of all, he's not a pundit.He's the sitting vice president.He could release the remaining files.He could declassify the documents and explain to the American public what exactly happened with them.who he was.He should, if he believes this, he has an obligation to release the files and have a report on Epstein's tie to intelligence.

And this is a standard line where he politicizes everything.Oh, they were connected to the left, not the right.But what the relevant point is, OK, why isn't he taking action?Instead, he was in the Situation Room covering up at every step of the way the release of the files and transparency.

And to some degree, he's just admitting or curating what's in the files, right?We got an audio tape now of Ehud Barak asking Jeffrey Epstein, well, Ehud Barak was still the defense minister for Israel.How am I going to make money?What's my grift going to be on the outside once I'm no longer a public official?And you get Epstein telling him, Well, think of everybody who owes you something because of your public position and leverage that.Told him to get on the board of Palantir, right?

And that's all audio.So for the vice president to admit that is no big revelation.I think it's a political admission on his part that he's being tainted, it's toxic, his association with the president and this administration that's trying to cover these things up.So he's giving you something that's already known.Epstein was, he met with the Obama's CIA director, you know, acting CIA director.Can't remember his name right now.

Yeah, that's right.So obviously he was tied to the highest levels.That stuff needs to come out.

I used to think, Vance, seriously, now I'm much more concerned Massey is going to be the nominee on the other side.I mean, look, the Vance was, Tainted with Epstein.He's literally running the cover -up for Epstein.He's been tainted on this war in Iran He's literally now cheerleading and he's been tainted on Israel as even he knows so he's going out.Well, no, no No, I'm not terribleon Epstein.

No, no, no, I'm not terrible on Israel.But, you know, it's actually a contradiction to some of the things he said before he had to do Donald Trump's bidding.No question.

Congresswoman, I'm curious, Congresswoman Massey, I'm curious if what you learned in the Epstein files changed your worldview at all, because, you know, as a leftist, I'm looking at this and I'm like, oh, a bunch of billionaires showing a lot of class solidarity here.Right.Very much comports with my view, although it was much more explicit than perhaps I even had imagined.You're giving the examples of like, hey, let's connect you with Palantir.You know, a country's resources you can go and exploit, etc.But I wonder, as a libertarian, if it shifted your view or if it changed your perspective at all, looking at some of the revelations.

Well, I joke, I tell people, I'm more of a conspiracy theorist than I was before I got elected.Now that they let me in the skiff and I can hear the top secret stuff, I'm like, yeah, well, that was true.But my opinion on the Epstein thing definitely has shifted over time.Like I, you know, in Congress, people want you to solve healthcare.They want you to take care of taxes, national defense, all of this stuff.And so I didn't give it enough attention.

for the first several years.It was one of those things to me on the Internet.Maybe it's a conspiracy.Then as I started paying attention and then particularly when I saw that Pam Bondi did sort of this spoof almost a caricature of releasing these binders.And then I personally asked Pam Bondi to her face at a dinner.When are you going to release the rest of the Epstein files.

Just as And I looked her in the face, and her answer to me was, oh, there's nothing left but child sexual exploitation material, and you'd be a pervert if you'd want to see any of that stuff.And she tried to shut me down that way, and I thought, all right, there's there there, right?That's what raised my suspicion.And then in the last summer, they said, closing the case.No prosecutions, there's nothing here, it's done.And that's when Roe and Wade,

said, no, it's not done.And we filed the bill.But that moment, that audio tape of Epstein talking to Ehud Barak, it gave me some insight into Jeffrey Epstein.that's when I decided he probably didn't kill himself.Like he had so much leverage.I believe he thought his time in the prison was temporary.

Either he had enough blackmail material or he was friends with enough people.If he just sat there and didn't say too much that they would eventually get him out.And so that's the one thing that also transitioned in my mind.I went from, okay, maybe this is a conspiracy that He was killed or he's still alive or whatever too.No, that's probably true He's probably killed or somehow sprung from the jail because he had that much leverage over these powerful people.

Yeah interesting So one of the things you mentioned there is blackmail the vice president also addressing a claim that the president is being blackmailed Obviously this connects to the war in Iran, which you're both against as well.Let's take a listen to that We'll get your reaction.

What I have seen and I've looked at most of the files is that they're just wasn't dispositive evidence.And if that dispositive evidence ever existed, it was probably destroyed after 2006, 2007.Now, look, again, in our defense, yes, was there some, you know, bitching and moaning and was there some back and forth?Yes.But we eventually collected 6 million documents.as part of the effort.

The president, people say the president was forced into releasing the documents.Like, again, the idea that Donald Trump could not have killed that legislation, especially with the United States Senate, is a joke.He absolutely could have killed it.What did he do?He actually said, no, we're going to release these files.He thought, you know, he was annoyed by the story.

He was annoyed by the Democrats accusing him of doing things bad.By the way, like,do I think there is any, I've never seen a single piece of credible evidence that the President of the United States engaged in wrongdoing with minors, ever.

So that was the claim there about blackmail.It is later connected also to the war with Iran.I'm curious, you know, for both of your reactions, because the Epstein -Files Transparency Act becomes a political crisis, and of course, the war gets launched with Iran.It's impossible not to at least look at that and be like, is there some connection?Like, what exactly is happening?Congressman Khanna, curious for your reaction.

Well, I think they both are terrible decisions.Do I believe that he went into Iran to distract from the Epstein?No, I don't.I don't think it was that.But I think he broke a fundamental pledge of not getting into foreign wars.He got talked into conquest.

And he saw what happened in Venezuela.And he said, OK, I can turn around the regime in Venezuela.I was opposed to what he did in Venezuela.And he thought he could just march into Iran.and ultimately betrayed his fundamental promise to the country of not getting into foreign wars.

I know it's easy to pick apart something like a Joe Rogan interview, but I have to take issue with the fact that he said they found six million files.Why have they released only three million?And then also the vice president says he's read or seen most of them.I don't believe that.I've spent hours at the DOJ and I've barely just like scratching the surface.Three million files is hard to consume and then to connect all the dots.

Uh, that on its face, the claim that he makes there, and then also the ridiculous claim that the president, this was something the president wanted to do or eventually wanted to do is false.If he still wanted to do it, he would direct his attorney general and acting attorney general to just go ahead and release all this stuff.Right.

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