"Far Away From A Motive" | Suspect In Ann Widdecombe Murder Released

The man arrested yesterday walks free, is no longer part of the investigation.What does that mean?Well, it means that he has provided some definite proof that he wasn't at the scene.You know, so somehow his name, his face, his car registration number has been linked.Maybe he was working at the premises.Maybe he was there roughly at that sort of time.

Maybe he's been captured on a ring doorbell.The police have made, you know, they've arrested him straight away.But he's been able to say, you know, at that time when this all happened, I was elsewhere.So the fact that he's not on bail, The fact he's been released, and it says not part of the investigation, tells me that definite proof has been provided that he is not involved at all.

Now, Mike, I know that this is a difficult and complicated conversation to have, particularly someone with your level of expertise and experience, because what we don't want to do is prejudge, we don't want to speculate, and we certainly also don't want to, in any way, adulterate the course of justice.But notwithstanding that, there are a few things that we can say, aren't there?One of which is that Anne Whittacombe has been murdered because it's a murder investigation.And the pathologist's report, that's not going to change, is it?No.So therefore, the police are looking for the person that did this.

Yeah, absolutely.And they've announced it's a white man, so that tells me that they've got some... well, that might have changed, because that tells me they've got some sort of proof, you know, that she did say... she said in an article with the Telegraph that her house was covered by several cameras.So there must be some sort of proof.image that they've been able to look at this and say this is the suspect but maybe now with this guy being released maybe that has changed so maybe they'll have to change the narrative but if her house is covered with cameras she jokingly said they were there to stop her garden gnomes being stolen but those cameraswill produce vital information that the police can try and track the suspects.

And it's being reported that locals, because of course we know that these small rural communities will spot a different car that's not normally there, so a different car was spotted.Did it raise an eyebrow on your part that the potential suspect was identified as white or is that an important fact?

I just think it's become more and more prevalent.The police have been put under pressure now to tell us what is going on.We've had so many incidents.The incident where, you know, I remember the guy driving around in Liverpool.The killer on the... or the man who had committed all sorts of stabbings on the Huntingdon train.There's been several incidents now.

Ruediger Barton, of course, most notoriously.

Failings.

They were failings.You know, people have given up on the Cardiff choir boy sort of scenario.Yeah.The police have got to give us some facts.But they must have some definite proof to say that.And as I say, the key thing these days is 20 years ago, you're really reliant on investigations, wet forensics, things like fingerprints and DNA.

Now, of course, you've got digital forensics.You've got all the CCTV, ring doorbells.If somebody's got an Apple Watch on their arm, it means you can actually tell when their heartbeat stopped.You know, there's no need for a doctor to sort of guess at the time of death.You know, you're literally, the Apple Watch will say, this time in these seconds, your heartbeat stopped.So the digital forensics are key here.

But that's why they would have been able to say, this is the suspect.But as I say, it's the white man they named earlier, the man who's been exonerated.Somebody is at large, and this will be very distressing for locals in the area.It'll be very distressing, one, for locals in the area.These are little places.I remember being a young soldier on Dartmoor.

These are rural places where Nothing, you know, I think I think the last battlethat happened here literally is the Hound of the Baskervilles, you know, the story is set nearby, you know, and that's fiction.So they'll have no comprehension of murders and stuff nearby, but I think the people who really will feel the threat is politicians who are people who speak out.I think the thing with Anne is what I liked about her, and I was debating, we were on the TV last month, is that she had unfashionable views, you know, and I have unfashionable views, and anybody with those unfashionable views will, I think, will feel under threat, and I really implore anybody else with unfashionable views, you've got to consider your own security, you know, what you've got in your home, how's your home protected, what's going to happen to you if something bad goes on, so I don't think the locals, I don't think there's a killer going to attack anybody else in that local area of Dartmoor, but The people who should be worried are, as I say, politicians with unfashionable views.

been from a potential motive, aren't we?

We absolutely are.You know, when you look at murders, nine out of ten are committed by somebody who's known to the person, often a family member, but Anne lived alone.I think her only relative is a local, is a vicar, who lives way away.So you could almost like write off, you know, any involvement of anybody who knew her.And so they've got to start looking at, the big thing, my expectationin the police was images, catching people with images.

And as I've said, she's declared that she's got all this CCTV.That is going to provide critical evidence.But the problem with the police is that whilst if you find a fraction of a fingerprint, if you find a trace of DNA, there are national databases.You can even go to Interpol and search everybody else's databases.When it comes to an image, a face, there is no real national database of faces.And so they're relying on local databases and stuff.

The way the police manage images is like they manage data during the Yorkshire Ripper inquiry.It's just not good enough.That needs to improve as digital evidence becomes more and more important.

Well, I'm delighted to say that Mike Neville, retired Scotland Yard Detective Chief Inspector, is going to stay with us to share with us his elite level experience in this area.If you're just joining us at 8 .22, the man arrested on suspicion of the murder of Anne Whittacombe has been released and is no longer part of the investigation.So what next for this police investigation?Lots more to come.This is Talk Breakfast.Well, you're listening to Talk Breakfast 8 .24.

The man arrested on suspicion of the murder of Anne Whittacombe has been released, he's no longer part of the investigation.So, at which point, officers will be... incredibly focused on finding the person, the culprit.Can you give us a sense of what will be happening now, you know, in regards to the force and what they're doing?

Yeah, absolutely.So, yesterday the Scenes of Crimes officer would have gone in there trying to find any evidence of fingerprints, DNA, anything that's found like that would be submitted to the Forensic Science Laboratory for an urgent analysis to try and identify anybody that's involved.of those databases.Then you've got the issue of the CCTV that's surrounding her house and maybe anything in the area, so people may have ring doorbells or dash cams or whatever who they've seen CCTV which is in that local area.That will be analysed to see if there's any trace of any suspect on therein.Then there'll be people looking at, is there any intelligence around this, has any previous threats been made, so they'll be searching all the police intelligence databases to look at that.

They'll also be looking at any devices that Anne had, computer, phone, see if any, what contact, who had she been in contact with, you know, in the last 24 hours or so, but what messages had been sent to her.So all these different departments will be being coordinated by a senior detective who's probably detective superintendent, detective chief inspector rank, they'll be coordinating all those inquiries and they'll be, due to the high profile nature of this, they'll probably be a gold commander, something like the assistant chief constable, will be coordinating all these activities.In addition to all that, you're looking for evidence, so if she was badly injured, was the weapon left at the scene, was it dropped at the scene, so there'll be specialist search teams, searching the house, searching the surrounding area to see what they can find.So there'll be a real coordinated effort here to try and find exactly who's done it and what weapon they used.

The Daily Mail are reporting, and of course we don't know because it's just speculation and can't be verified, that there isn't evidence of a burglary.Of course what they will do, just Hypothetically, Michael, is that cops will go in, and if they see untouched valuables, that might suggest, OK, we're looking at a different kind of crime here.

Yeah, absolutely.And in my experience, most burglars do not attack people.They don't want to meet the resident, do they?They don't want drama.You know, most burglars are stealing because they need money for drugs or something.So the last thing they need is to involve the police, you know, and that means attacking.

If there's any inkling that you've been sussed out, they'll do a runner and clear off.So, when I hear these, it's a burglar gone wrong, maybe it was, but...In my experience, burglars will not attack residents.They will go and they will leave.So it's a case of, like, what is the motive here?This is a very strange thing.

I can't think of anything.Whilst, as I said, Anne had unfashionable views, like I have those.Unfashionable views that most people agree with.Agreed.But I can't think of anything recent where she said something which would trigger an attack.But the police will be looking into this.

What broadcast has been made?As I say, what threat?There's all sorts of computer data they can search to see if there's a motive behind this.

It's also hard to imagine that, you know, because you've got the other scenario which is, put it bluntly, the mad axeman, you know, just a crazed, deranged killer.That's a unique sort of crime and it's perhaps not something where that individual would visit a property and commit a crime like that?

Well, again, you do have people who do these absolutely wicked crimes, but generally, you know, look at people like the Yorkshire Ripper.They operate in an inner -city environment where you've got lots of targets, I suppose.Where we are here in Dartmoor, you know, it's the sort of place you could wander around, if you were a Mad Axeman, you could wander around with your axe for several hours and never see anybody.You know, so I can't see that, given the rural nature of this venue.And the secluded nature of the property.Exactly.

I think this is, it looks to me,

targeted thing And therefore, that opens up a question about whether it was political.It is interesting that the police have ruled out this being a terror -related incident.Is that something that they could change their minds about?

I think so, and often the police are too easy to do that, you know, it's just too quick.Because really, until you get hold of the person and say, what's your question in the interview, how do you know what their motive is?I don't see why they make these statements like that, because Until you sit down with somebody and say, why were you there?Why did this happen?You don't know the motive.So it seems a strange situation to say that.

Most definitely.

I've got this message from David, who says, good morning, Mark, and hello, Mike.Very sad news.Is the clip below not a crime?The socialist worker newspaper responded to the tragedy with a headline reading, hurrah, Anne Widdicombe is strictly dead.Now, some of these people on the progressive left have been posting before they realised there was a murder investigation, and that includes Peter Chachal, the gay rights campaigner.I don't think that matters.

for these people that characterize themselves as the be kind crowd, to celebrate someone's death, notwithstanding a murder investigation, is deeply wrong.

It is deeply wrong.You know, I saw yesterday, I've got a friend who's a gay vicar, and we're completely opposite, and great friends.And he put up, he said, I might not have agreed with some of her views, but she was a lovely lady, and let's just respect.And I said, they are the sort of kind words that you expect from decent people, aren't they?So we can disagree with people, But to want people dead is the be kind.We saw it after the Charlie Kirk thing.

The people who claim to be the most inclusive, the nicest, are often the most wicked and evil and say these dreadful things.And you think, how do you...don't know, how do you live when you have that?awful hatred inside you you know what because they'll call me and you they'll say to me me or you or they would have said to Ann Widdicombe you have these wicked views but we're all up to a point we're live and let live just let people get on with it if somebody dies that's a really sad thing these people that the progressive left are utterly wicked when they put these things up I completely agree and they reveal themselves they do they do show themselves by their works they shall be known yeah and of course Mike it's a difficult morning to have levity but we will coin your amazing catchphrase, the left never sleep.They never sleep.And as I say, when we see something like this, it could have been somebody on the real...

Let's say Jeremy Corbyn was murdered.I don't agree with anything Jeremy Corbyn says, but I would say, you know, he's a man who says what he thinks, he believes in what he thinks, and no -one deserves to be murdered.But these people leap upon it and, as I say, every time...When we see that, we'd never think of something wicked.The left do not sleep, and they never sleep.Every time something happens, they're looking for their own agenda.

Yes, and I'm afraid to say that I think some of them want you dead.

Yeah, they do.And this is a real tragedy here.What people see is this sort of thing, it silences people because they think, if I have unfashionable views, I'll just keep them to myself.Because they see what's happened to Charlie Kirk, they've seen what's happened to Ad Winnicombe, President Trump, they've tried to kill him.It's just wicked.

If we look at the events of the last couple of days, strangely and perversely, talk is part of that conversation.Because it wasn't just Anne's main broadcast platform.She was on the channel multiple times a week.But of course, this was the home to her final broadcast.And it was talk breakfast with myself on Wednesday morning.And it was from memory, I think, around

.45, 8 in the morning that Anne came on.She didn't like to come on too early.

If you asked her for 7 a .

m.she'd say I need I need my sleep.But we've got a development on this one because she appeared on Talk Breakfast on Wednesday morning.She was due to go on Channel 5 via video link.Right.later that day at lunchtime.

So she's with us around 8am, memorably so, and I'll be playing a very special clip from my last conversation with Anne at nine o 'clock as a special dozens is back.But we've got this from Channel 5.Anne Whitacombe's last media appearance was on Wednesday when she spoke live on Talk TV Breakfast via remote video link.ITV News has learned that Anne Whittacombe was also due to be a guest via video call from her home on Channel 5's Matt Allwright show at 1pm on the same day, so just two or three hours later.But she didn't appear.A researcher on the show had spoken to Anne Whittacombe on the phone earlier in the afternoon to set up the interview.

After the call, the researcher exchanged messages with Anne Whittacombe, with her last message received at 12 .19pm.When the researcher then messaged again at 12 .48pm requesting that Anne Whittacombe join the Zoom link, Miss Whittacombe did not reply.Subsequent voice calls and messages asking if everything was okay remained unanswered.Now you know as well as I do, Mike, that like yourself, Anne was the consumer professional.And if she was due on air at 1pm, then she'd be there.Absolutely.

So what, without drawing firm conclusions, what might you read into that?

Well again something really bad has happened during that time and the police will be looking into this of course with all the CCTV.What happens there is you've got a definite time zone to look into.So when you're lookingat CCTV, you're confronted with days and days of this stuff.What happens here is you've got some, because of that, As you say, she would have been on the TV, so that 1pm time zone is something that the police can really focus on.Let's say she's got seven cameras on the home.

That's so many cameras to watch, but when you've got a time, that means you can really focus in, and sadly, it would seem that that's when something happens.

Exactly, it wouldn't take Sherlock Holmes to deduce.It's likely that, therefore, the police The carer has gone in to see Anne, I think, on Thursday.Yeah.So it's possible that this incident may have happened Wednesday mid -morning.Yeah.and that poor Anne and her remains were in situ for 24 hours before she was found, that's possible?

Absolutely, because of the remoteness of the area, the contact that she had, the lack of...She hasn't got much family, and so it's very easy that somebody could be on their own for 24 hours.

How hard is it for the cops, given the high -profile nature of this crime, to do their job?

Well, there's always going to be pressure, isn't there?And you see the worst example, I would say, of police under pressure is the Yorkshire Ripper inquiry when you watch those old videos of George Oldfield focusing on the tape and being desperate to find something.That just shows how things can go wrong.so badly wrongthere is still a high degree of professionalism around murder.And expertise.

And expertise, and also the scenes of crime officers, the digital forensic things, things that for normal investigations, your thefts, your burglaries and robberies, take too much time.For a murder, you can sort of bat away that, and you can get things done, so...

It's a bit like the NHS, isn't it?If you've got, like, a sort of mysterious ache or pain, good luck.If you've got a broken leg or a heart attack...Yeah, exactly, that's a good analogy to draw, yeah.Yeah, and police resource, will it be money no object at this point?Will they be deploying resources, extra resources?

Yeah, absolutely.Particularly the search teams, because the search officers who are brought in to search for a weapon or any other clues, they can be brought in from all sorts of other forces.The scenes of crime officers, the forensic evidence, they can bring other people in as experts from other forces.

Yeah for sure and there is obviously someone at large.So, this is...I mean, you wouldn't call it a manhunt, because you would need to know the man you were hunting for, is that right?But is it akin to a manhunt?

It is, because there must be some clues here, there must...You never leave a crime scene without leaving something behind.Yeah.So, there's some digital or wet forensic evidence there, and I would say, my expertise, I'd say that the images, that would be the big one for me.In fact, you've got a time zone, you've got all those cameras, there must be something.You don't get to these places... on public transport.

To get to that venue you must drive.That means a car, a registration plate.The place is covered with cameras.That gives you a clue.It gives you a face.It might give you some distinctive clothing.

So that's the avenue I would be going.down.Yes.

And we also must countenance the possibility, and pray God, that it doesn't play out this way, Mike.It's not impossible that we may never find the person that did this.

That's a possibility, but given that 95 % of murders are solved, given the high -profile nature of this, given the potential evidence that's available, I'd be very surprised if Devon and Cornwall Police don't solve this.

Mike, before you go, and we've been so honoured to have you in the studio, do you have any concluding thoughts about all of this?

I just think that Anne Widdicombe was, as the first caller when I came in, She is the sort of politician we need.We're sick and tired of the nerds like Starmer who say all the right things and do all the wrong things.Anne Widdicombe, she told the truth.We need politicians who say it as it is, who have unfashionable views that some of us may agree and disagree with.She was a lovely lady, and as I say, she was probably the equivalent of a favourite Dottie Ant, who we all need.

A lovely lady.Most definitely, and we want her back.Mike, lovely to see you, and we know you've had a very busy 24 hours.You've naturally been in demand, and no doubt the next day or two is going to be busy too.And please God, they find out who did this.Mike Neville is a retired Scotland Yard detective, chief inspector, and of course now elite -level broadcaster as well.