FRANC-MAÇON : MYTHES, RITUELS, SECRETS… IL NOUS DIT TOUT (ET VISITE D’UN TEMPLE MAÇONNIQUE)

Today we're going to receive a Freemason. What is Freemasonry?

Freemasonry is simply a process of self-employment. Mozart, Joe Biden for example, who became a Freemason.

I also saw Walt Disney, is that true?

Yes, absolutely. Walt Disney is a Freemason. And I don't know if you noticed, but we can see Mickey's white gloves.

You're kidding!

Here we are in the Grand Temple of the Grand Lodge of France. There are pictures of it where it is quite unopened. For this temple, it is very, very exclusive. Some people think that Freemasonry is satanic, etc. There is nothing of all that.

Freemasons would perform rituals with animal sacrifices.

Can I answer?

Frankly.

Hello everyone and welcome to Legends. Today we are going to receive a Freemason. We're going to talk about Freemasonry in a broad sense, since we're also going to visit a temple that belongs to a lodge of about thirty people who find themselves in a temple. We're going to talk about the signs, how they find themselves, how Freemasonry was created,

the secrets of Freemasonry too. He's going to answer all these questions. In any case, just before, I wanted to thank our sponsor, Plode AI, who created the Plode Note Pro, which is a note-taking assistant that uses artificial intelligence. It's pretty crazy, it's only 3mm. You can put it directly on the small magnetized cover on your phone. And it will do mainly two things, it will record the ambient sound,

it's pressed on the button, and it will record the ambient sound. For example, you attend a conference, you attend a meeting, you want to record the sound, it will be able to transcribe it, to make a synthesis too, with artificial intelligence, and you will be able to send the file directly, in writing, via the application. It will also be able to record the calls

that you will make with your phone, so the sound of the microphone and the call, same, via the application. You have a small screen to be sure that everything is fine and that there is still battery, it allows you to reduce the sound if you are in a noisy environment.

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Subscribe to YouTube, You can click on the bell to be notified of the next releases. Don't hesitate to comment the show, to say what you thought about it, to react to the show. And let's go now with the Freemasons, special show on Freemasonry, on Legende. Let's go.

Hello, I'm Freemason, and I'm going to talk to you about Freemasonry today on Legende,

and I'm going to explain to you why I don't give, no first name. I won't call you by your first name, I'll call you the Freemason, since it's the name of your account on social media. You explain the history of Freemasonry, the symbols, how we can recognize ourselves, how we get in there. You explain a bit of everything around Freemasonry.

We'll talk about, if you like, monuments that exist in France. There are a lot of monuments that were created by Freemasons, or by people who were Freemasons, and you're going to tell us which ones, if you want. We're going to talk about the personalities who are, who have agreed to reveal themselves, secrets that you must keep.

It's very interesting, anyway. You're used to doing interviews, you're followed by hundreds of thousands of people.

When did you create your accounts? about a year ago, and today, we are followed by 400,000 people. It's a good number.

Is Freemasonry secret? Why don't you say your name, so that we understand why?

So, you can imagine that if Freemasonry was secret, I wouldn't be here to talk about it publicly with you. So no, Freemasonry as such is not secret. The problem is that in France, there are a lot of prejudices in France, and in the world, by the way, about Freemasons, and if you want, there are certain prejudices that can lead to a certain hatred.

I'm going to ask you the questions about all these prejudices, you've tried to answer them.

Yeah, so, you see, and a little bit to preserve me, or at least to preserve my personal identity, and also my relatives, etc. That's why I'm talking about Freemasonry with a face covered, I have no problem with that, but I really dissociate my personal identity.

Your personal life, because Freemasonry is not a job. Yet, you will explain to us what it is, is it a religion? I typed on the internet Freemasonry, there are a lot of questions, I will ask you. It's something quite exceptional for us, we had never addressed the subject at all, I believe, on Legendes since the beginning of the media. You're the first to come, so thank you for coming here. We're going to talk about the rumors, the rumored 10 on Freemasonry, the biggest ones we've seen on Google.

The Masonic symbols, I think you have a scarf, if you listen to us in podcast audio today, know that he has a scarf, I was going to say like the Miss France, but not Miss France, but worn like a mare. With lots of symbols on it, which you will explain to us later. You even have a sword on the side. So you're not dressed like that every day?

Listen, not dressed every day, but at least every night of the day, that is, every night of meetings with the Freemasons.

This is an exceptional outfit, that is, you're in a smoking suit, even in a quill, if I'm not mistaken. I saw you coming in. That's every Friday, every Thursday. Is it an abdominal meeting?

We'll talk about it later. Yes, it's a meeting every two weeks, or even in some lodges. So you're dressed like that. Generally, it's a smoking suit, not necessarily in a queue of pie, but here you go, black smoking, white shirt and black tie or black butterfly knot,

except when you're in this dress, the white butterfly knot.

Yes, you're in a butterfly knot and you're in white gloves too, with all the symbols. You brought the compass, the square, you brought everything you could bring us, so thank you. And then we'll go visit a temple too, so that's where you meet up, it's a bit like the Freemasons' house?

Yes, exactly, a temple is a place, we meet up, Freemasonry is like that, it's one evening or two evenings a month, the Freemasons meet up in a temple, usually in the evening, between 7pm and 10pm, and so the temple is really the physical place

where we meet up, it's a place where there are symbols and where we perform a ritual to put ourselves in a state of reflection. So a temple is exactly that, and we'll be able to see one.

We'll see. It's true that the word ritual can be a bit scary when you don't know what it is. So you'll try to enlighten us as much as possible. We see Jay-Z, every time Jay-Z does this, a triangle with his hands, he tries to do this and that. Are these Masonic symbols? Are these Illuminati symbols?

I typed on the Internet, that's what comes out. What is it when you make the triangle like that?

The triangle is simply a symbol that is major in Freemasonry, it's what we call the shining delta. It was associated with the Illuminati, so that's an account that's, let's say from two centuries ago. The Ibn-i Atis is a trend that... went half-way with Freemasonry, but lasted only 10 years, and has nothing to do with Freemasonry.

But a whole myth has been fomented for two centuries around that, because there was a writer, a bit of a zealot, who wrote a book about it, and it was a great success. And you can imagine that today's stars, because they do these kinds of triangles, etc. To put the myth a little ... It's marketing! Yeah, it's to maintain the myth, it's marketing. He knows that when Jay-Z does that, it's going to buzz.

And so, inevitably, he takes advantage of it a little, he plays on it.

How do Freemasons see the fact that you are on social media,

that you show yourself? Do you have the right to say that someone else is Freemason. You see? -"Unveil someone else." -"Unveil someone else." You can't. Respect for private life, that's normal. On the other hand, you can very well unveil yourself. And yes, so what I do, is that I communicate on Freemasonry on social media. Listen, I would tell you that, in Freemasonry,

it's generally well accepted. I have 50% of fans, 10% of very refractive, because there is still a belief in France on the cult of the secret concerning Freemasonry, which is really specific to Catholic Europe, I would tell you. And 40% who are a little indecisive and who look at that. And in any case, the positive side is that it creates vocations,

it demystifies, it fights a little bit the prejudices that have a hard life, and that's the reason why I do all this.

We will try to really explain that, and then to go into the subject in depth, really take a little time. You said you have 10% of refrains, I did not know, you did not tell us. Have you ever had any problems with that?

I have already had, yes, so I have already had sometimes to justify my approach, because at first it surprises. It's something very common in other countries, in England, Brazil, the United States, where Freemasonry is much more... free, in quotation marks, much more... Official?

Yes, more official, and the temples are visible directly in the street. You see magnificent temples with the inscription,

Masonic Temple. In the United States, you see them.

You even have public meetings in the newspaper. They are officially published. In France, there is a real trauma of the Second World War. The Freemasons were persecuted. By whom? By the Nazis? Yes, by the Vichy regime. Besides, the persecution of Freemasons is really the first instruction

made by the Pétain regime before the extermination or the direction in the concentration camps of the Jews. So it preceded that.

Why?

For a simple reason. The Nazis, notably Himmler, who was a bit of a crazy esotericist, thought that Freemasons had the secret of the Holy Grail and the secret of the Templars. And they wanted to use these secrets, a bit esoteric, because they thought it would help the exploitation of the Third Reich.

And Hitler, he saw a bit in Freemasonry a threat. You see, he saw, he thought it was going to be a network that was going to be against him. He didn't quite make a mistake, because, in the end, when Freemasonry was persecuted, there was a Masonic resistance network that was created. That was put in place. There were 20,000 Freemasons, I think, who were persecuted,

and there were 3,000 Freemasons who were part of the resistance, who created a resistance against the Vichy government. And 600, unfortunately, among the remaining, were killed.

Oh yes, some were deported to concentration camps.

There were even, we'll talk about it later,

lodges of fortune, in concentration camps.

If we find them, we'll talk about it later.

Absolutely.

Just, we talked about you quickly,

I won't go into the details, as you want to stay discreet,

but you work, so you have a job.

Absolutely. But you work, so you have a job. In which sector, to be very precise? In finance. In finance?

Do people sometimes recognize you in relation to your videos,

and tell you, wait, it's you on the...

Yes, it happens very often.

Yes, it happens very often.

You've never had a problem?

I'm lucky, if you will, to have a job,

or at least a situation,

that allows me not to be too much impacted by that. But the fact is that the prejudices, once again,

have a hard life, especially in France, and there are a lot of Freemasons. The majority of them, by the way, do not want to reveal themselves because they do not want to be assimilated to the beliefs that people have.

We will talk about how to recognize them, your signs of recognition,

in any case, if you can handshake, you may have seen this video.

The handshake of Freemasons, is it like this or like that?

Do we put our finger like this, inside?

There's always a myth about it, we'll talk about it later. We'll start with the basic question. What is Freemasonry? Imagine you're talking to someone who doesn't know the subject at all.

What is it? Freemasonry is simply a self-employed approach

that is done within a fraternal and benevolent group.

Basically, it's what we could call a moral system

that was conceived centuries ago

and that is used in an initiatory order. What is an initiatory order? It's a bit like the orders of a knight, you see, at the time. It's really a kind of organization with a hierarchy, with ranks. And initiatic, because it allows someone, an initiate,

who enters Freemasonry, to access a knowledge that is concealed by initiation. Initiation is something very important in Freemasonry.

Basically, it's like if you were, let's say, a little mouse,

and you observed Freemasons,

you would see people who would get together,

who would talk about morals, philosophy,

two to three times a month. And with simple...

It's two to three times a month?

Yeah, two to three times a month.

Does it depend on the age?

It depends on the age. In fact, you have one to two times a month, and then you have higher degrees, and for each higher degree,

or at least for each class of higher degrees, you have an additional outfit per month.

An outfit is a...

A Masonic meeting, yes.

We're going to talk about vocabulary, too,

which is not necessarily the same as Mr. Adam-Everyone.

I didn't know most of the expressions,

you'll explain it to us. I won't reveal myself because I'm not. I can say it, we can say we're not. So it's interesting because I have no knowledge about the subject. So I took pleasure in preparing the show, in learning things. So it's good to be in front of you, so we can ask you directly. I hope I will ask all the questions you ask at home to improve the subject. We often associate Freemasonry, looking at it, and I got interested,

with Christian religion. But at the same time, we get the impression that you're not friends with religion and the Church. It's not very clear, I think. Are you religious? Do you believe in God? Are you against Christian religion? Are you with it? I get the impression that the Vatican is not with Freemasons.

Can you explain, try to clarify that? Yes, absolutely. Basically, Freemasonry is a Christian tradition. Okay? It's a moral system that was created by Christians, rather Protestants, basically, so pastors.

It comes from England, if you will.

Freemasonry was created ination of Christ was created in England.

It was created in England. It has, let's say, Scottish origins. Basically, if you will, it's actually the English who borrowed symbols linked to the Scottish builders. Okay?

The builders are the builders of the cathedral.

Cathedral, exactly, from the Middle Ages. And so, if you will, basically, it's a Christian tradition. Okay? Exactly, from the Middle Ages. And so, if you want, it's basically a Christian tradition. OK? The problem is that, with the Catholic Church, not necessarily all Christianity,

but with the Catholic Church, there was a problem. Because, at the time, the Vatican, they saw this coming from England, coming to France, they saw a threat. England was Protestant, you see, they saw this coming to France, they thought

there would be a massive conversion, especially because Freemasonry affected the aristocrats, who were the rich donors of the Church, etc. So, for Catholicism, they immediately, very quickly, condemned Freemasonry. And it's a condemnation that, three centuries ago, Freemasons were excommunicated, etc. Today, they are no longer. But the Catholic Church recognizes a serious sin

to be Freemason today, still.

But there are still Catholics who are Freemasons?

Absolutely. If you want me to enter my lodge, you must believe in God. So, inevitably, in France, those who are believers, it's going to be Catholics, it's going to be Jews, and it's going to be Muslims too. So you have a lot of Catholics who are also Freemasons.

To live it, there is no incompatibility, but for the Vatican, they consider that there is an incompatibility, but it's historical.

Is it considered a religion? It's not very clear.

No, Freemasonry is not a religion.

Because religion, in Latin, is to connect people.

So, if you take it in the sense of a religion, it's something with a dogma, a doctrine...

There is no Freemason god?

No, exactly, there is no Freemason god. Freemasonry works for the glory of God, at the base, at the base of the Christian god, which then established itself, extended to other religions, let's say. In France, there is a secular religion that was created, which, at one point in its history, was anti-clerical. Not anti-religious, but anti-clerical.

That is, against religious institutions... before. And so, if you want, all this to tell you that it's not a religion, okay? You can... Today, Freemasonry, especially in France, there is everything, there are religious people, there are atheists too, there are agnostics, it happens.

It's just a moral system that will allow you to work on yourself.

You say that you answer Freemasonry, in any case, it's interested in three main questions.

Yes.

What are these three questions?

It's going to be, ultimately, the questions that are existential and that each human being asks himself a little bit in his life when we go beyond the daily life. It's going to be, who am I? Where do I come from? And where am I going? So, who am I, the origin, who is my being, etc.? Where do I come from? Let's say... History?

History, and above all, what does my history make of me today and what look can I have? And where am I go, what is my future, how do I want to build my life, and how do I want to build it, ultimately? And you see, the questions that religion is dealing with, that is, what happens after death, who created the world, Freemasonry doesn't deal with those questions at all.

That's why religion and Freemasonry work on completely different levels. What is the purpose of Freemasonry? To answer these questions? The purpose of Freemasonry is to offer men or women a method to improve themselves, to work on themselves. And therefore to answer these questions, and above all to aim at... First, to teach them to know better,

and to be able to work on the improvement, the perennialization of their lives, and the improvement of the human condition indirectly. That's the purpose.

Is it a sect? Question, I really typed the questions, and I'm asking myself.

No problem. So, Freemasonry is not going to be a sect. You see, a sect, the image we have of a sect, is something that is very confining, in the end. You see, something that alienates you. It's going to be very difficult to get out of a sect, but to enter, it's very easy, Freemasonry is the opposite.

It's going to be difficult to enter Freemasonry. We check well, there's really a process of selection to see if your steps are really, let's say, deep, and if you really want to start this step, which is a commitment. On the other hand, it's very easy to get out of it. If I take my phone, I send a letter of resignation to the so-called venerable master,

the one who presides the lodge, I'm out of the Freemasonry.

Right away?

Right away.

There's no pressure, for example, on you if you want to leave?

Not at all. And there are a lot of people who, after a while, either because they move or because it can happen, they don't recognize each other anymore. These things happen. Well, they leave Freemasonry, there's no problem with that.

I also noticed that you call each other brothers. Is that something real?

Yeah, absolutely. So...

Brothers.

Freemasons, we are brothers. Or sisters, by the way, with... Because there are also women in Freemasonry. Absolutely. In the same lodges, or are they mixed lodges, or non-mixed lodges? It depends. You have male lodges, mixed lodges, and female lodges. You really have all three.

And you choose when you go into Freemasonry, you say, I want to be a mutant, I don't know how it works, in a lodge, I don't know, for example, to move to Bordeaux, I'd like to go there, I'd like to be in a mixed flat. Is that how it works? Or did you put yourself where there's room?

No, you're not put where there's room. You're put, generally, when you enter Freemasonry, you're co-opted. Generally. That is, you're offered to enter a flat. So you don't really choose your lodging at the beginning. You can. Okay? There are people who, via an online application process, can choose the lodging. But generally, it's not the case.

We'll talk about how to enter later. We haven't talked about the subject. First, something important that we haven't said since the beginning, is how many Freemasons are there in France, approximately, it wouldn't be to the members,

but to the brothers, as you say, but how many are there? Yes, about 170,000 to 180,000 Freemasons, and you have about 10 to 15% of women, and the rest are Freemasons.

So 170,000 to 180,000, it's a very big city. Bordeaux, I think it's 250,000, 280,000. There are a lot of people. Yes, there are quite a of people, yes, absolutely. We'll talk about it later, but do you ever meet people in the street that you don't know, the bakery, and see a symbol, and say, hey, he's a Freemason?

Or is it not like that either?

Yes, it can happen. It happened to me, for example, once at the hairdresser's, where the hairdresser was a Freemason, a symbol that was inscribed, the famous square and compass, which was embedded on his desk. So, yes, it can happen. Generally, there is still a discretion, especially in France, on your belonging to Freemasonry,

precisely because there are all these prejudices, and some don't want to be associated with that, associated with all these beliefs.

Who can become a Freemason?

A person who sincerely wants to become one for good reasons. That is to say, self-improvement, the sincerity of the approach, which doesn't come out of curiosity, you see, but who really wants to start this approach of...

Of improving, at the top?

Yes, of improving, of personal development, etc. And to answer a little bit the questions we've talked about.

My question is also in terms of age. Can everyone become a Freemason, no matter their social background, their job, their age? Or is it from the age of 18? Is it maximum?

Yes. It's the majority. So, in some lodges, it's going to be 18 years old. Generally, it's 21 years old. So, the old majority. So, 21 years old, the minimum age, and then it can go up to...

And no matter the social environment, there are all kinds of jobs.

Today, Freemasonry has become widely democratized. It was very elitist in the past, that's true. Before Freemasonry, it was the aristocracy, it was the great bourgeoisie, it was the great officers. It was really reserved for these people. And it has become widely democratized over the last 100 years,

so today, it goes through all social circles, there are workers, teachers, people of the daily life, really, all professions are represented.

You say we're going to look at whether it's an honest approach to enter Freemasonry. For a few months, you say, it can take a while. What does it consist of? Is it a kind of investigation on you? to enter Freemasonry for a few months, you say, it can take a while. What does it consist of? Are they some kind of investigation on you?

They're going to come to your house, what's going on?

Yes, so you have a process... You're going to meet the Freemasons. You're going to meet first the president of the lodge, who is called the Venerable Master. Normally, it's going to be at your house. In fact, the reason... To see where you live too? To see where you live, and then the reason is that... You see, we also want to make sure that it's OK for your family environment.

If, for example, your spouse is not OK with the fact that you're joining Freemasonry, it's going to be a big red flag. And that, for example, is something we also look at. You know, in Freemasonry, we say that everything must be fair and perfect. There mustn't be, let's say, exciting things, because ultimately...

It will cause problems at some point.

And when you're a Freemason, it's life after. We really want to make sure that there is a sincere approach and that everyone is OK, that there is harmony, that you are also available, etc. So, these are meetings that will take place at your home. Usually, you have four.

A first one with the president, and three after, with what we call investigators. There is no investigation, it's just people who will come to your house one after the other, and it's one-to-one discussions, you see, just to see a little bit, why do you want to join Freemasonry, what is your approach, where are you today, are you available to do it, etc. To make sure a little bit of the well-being, the well-founded, of your approach, of wanting to join the lodge.

Before talking about ... So I'm really going to quote you the 10 rumors I found, the Masonic symbols we have there ... I'm going to quote you personalities, you're going to tell me if they are Freemasons or not, at least officially, because maybe there are some that are not revealed, as you say,

probably a lot, in the political environment, today? Much less than before.

Before, 60, 70 years ago, 50% of parliamentarians were Freemasons.

Today, if we are really at 10%, it would be the end of the world. In the past, Freemasonry was very politicized.

Take, for example, the Third Republic, it was really a Masonic regime, a Masonic republic, for once. Which is really very linked to France,

that England has a different relationship,

and the United States, once again, is another story.

But there was this story in France.

Today, it has democratized,

and politicians are much less interested.

They probably have other things to do

than the Freemasonry today. There are celebrities who are Freemasons,

you learned, they are Turkish,

but you said to yourself, I'm surprised to see this person. Yes, there are many. There are past celebrities, a lot. So, you would have, for example, Mozart, or more recently, Joe Biden, for example, who entered Freemasonry.

There are a lot of them, on political figures, before Freemasonry. Freemasonry is politicized ? Is it left-wing, right-wing, no politics ?

It's politicized in France only.

Normally, in Freemasonry, there are two subjects you don't discuss,

it's religion and politics.

It's forbidden to speak in the lodge ?

It's forbidden because religion was born in England

at a time when there were political and religious clashes.

And it's guys who said to themselves, we want to create a space of moral peace, where people will be able to speak freely,

but who will not divide men. That was the goal at the beginning.

So, religion and politics, we don't talk about it.

In France, after, yes, Freemasonry has politicized itself.

Very politicized, at one point.

I would tell you that in France, you have three main obediences, okay?

What is an obedience?

Sorry? An obedience is simply a federation of several...

A current?

No, it's a federation, an institution that exists, an association,

that will be headed by several lodges. And in France, you have three obediences, which represent three main currents. You have an obedience that is rather on the left, and the other two that are rather on the right.

Frankly, it's very popularized,

because in these obediences, of course, there are people who are left and right,

all political currents are represented in Freemasonry.

We'll talk about it, because there are political figures who have already said it, who have revealed themselves, we'll talk about it later.

Just to talk about you, I need to understand well,

we all need to understand and be clear. You started 12 years ago, you joined the Freemasons 12 years ago, you were 25, you're 37 today. How did you become a Freemason? Is it something of a family? You were saying earlier, co-opted. Is it something hereditary, that your father got you into Freemasonry,

or how did it happen for you? Listen, very by chance, via my cousin,

a person from my family who co-opted me,

I met Freemasonry by chance.

I did my studies in Canada,

at Polytechnique Canada, and when you finish Polytechnique, at the end, you go through what we call a ring ceremony.

And this ceremony, I learned that it was something

that had been established by Kipling, the one who wrote the book of the jungle, who was a Freemason. Besides, the book of the jungle is a Masonic tale.

And he wanted, through this ring ceremony,

to unify the Canadian polytechnic engineers. And so I discovered it like that.

And then, I talked about it with people from my family, etc.

And my cousin, I learned that he was a Freemason, and he let me in his lodge. In France? In France. While he was in Canada?

No, he was in France.

Ah, ok, so he was doing his studies there.

The Jungle Book is a Masonic book.

Yes, exactly.

A legend with symbols. Mowgli is an initiator who will walk an initiatory path. And Bagheera represents something, Baloo represents something else, etc., who will intervene in his moral construction, if you will. They will accompany him? Exactly.

To make him become a man.

So you are recruited by your cousin, so to speak,

he's the one who co-opts you, he's your godfather, basically.

He brings you one day to attend,

you do some kind of test... How does it work?

To be more concrete.

In fact, he makes a request to the lodge.

There's a vote at the lodge level,

if we want to... watch the presentation of this candidate. And then there are the famous investigations I told you about.

So you meet...

Who come to your place... Who come to your place, etc. And then there's a particular passage where you go home,

you have...

You don't see people directly,

but you're asked questions.

Once again, it's a bit to validate your approach,

to get to know you a little better too.

What do you mean, you don't see people when you're asked questions?

Well, that is to say that you don't see...

Blindfolded? You have blindfolded eyes, you don't see people directly. It's scary, isn't it? It's more for... So, it's not necessarily... At first, it's to not reveal them. I'm not saying it's for that.

I'm saying it must be scary.

You know, there's nothing that scares known. And then, you have a godfather. He's there to guide you...

Does your cousin stay by your side?

No, he's in...

Let's say he's in the people who will ask you questions.

He won't ask you questions directly.

But if you want, he's briefed you a bit.

So you have, finally, this ordeal,

but which is very benevolent.

The idea, it's not to The idea is not to disturb people. The U-Banded are more something that will help you,

to be more in the introspection,

and to provide answers that come from deep inside you, that will allow you to answer better honestly. What is that? Is it the intro? Is it the beginning?

It's just a first meeting.

It's just a first meeting, it's after all the investigations,

and you're not yet a Freemason.

And so, after that, there's a vote that's being made,

and so, if you're validated, let's say, by the members of the lodge,

well, you can be what we call initiated.

So, to talk about you, when everything is over,

you met for the first time, so you didn't see any faces, you don't know where you are.

If you go in front of the building, when do they blindfold you?

You park your car, and as soon as you want to go in,

before entering, you have your eyes blindfolded,

but, once again, it can seem very esoteric,

and very, let's say, a little blurry like that. The process is very benevolent, it goes very well,

and everyone generally keeps a very good memory of it.

And so, after, you have the initiation, you said.

Is that really the passage? What is it? Is it a kind of baptism? You could say that.

They said that Freemasonry was an initiatory order.

Precisely, knowledge will be concealed, but will be transmitted through an initiation. Well, an initiation is going to be exactly that. Unfortunately, it's not something... Unfortunately, it's something that is not told. It's something that is experienced. Something that is a little bit related to what we call the sacred, you see.

It's not something that, let's say, is part of the daily life, of everyday life. Here, we are really trying to create a space, a moment, It's not something that is part of the daily life, of everyday life. Here we are trying to create a space, a moment, a little out of time and out of space. And there will be a ritual that will happen, there will be things, there will be a whole symbolism that will emerge.

And it's done both to trigger an introspection in the person and to arouse in him moral elements, progression elements. It's something that is truly experienced. If it's not told, it would be a shame to tell it. It would spoil a little bit, I would say, the surprise to those who would like to embark on this path.

But it's something very beautiful, very striking. Are you afraid or not? No. It's really a very, very good moment.

Because you said when we were preparing the show that some people were feeling uneasy.

Yeah.

So it's still...

It's very... So, when I say there are some, it must represent one or two people, you see, throughout the year, among thousands of initiations. In fact, it's not that, it's that... There are a lot of things that happen, and you take a temple, let's say... I'll take an extreme example. It's very hot, there are a lot of people, there are noises, etc.

Well, sometimes, there are people who...

You don't bear the pressure.

...who can sometimes not bear it. It happens very, very rarely. Generally, people, I keep in my memory. But these are things that can happen.

There are some who, sometimes,

can withdraw, choose to withdraw during the initiation,

and that's absolutely correct, and that's absolutely OK.

Besides, in the initiation process, we ask, we validate at each step if the candidate is ready to continue

and to continue the initiation, etc., and if he doesn't want to, if he wants to withdraw at any time, we take him back home. There's really... We really want... We want... You know, you asked me about the criteria to enter Freemasonry.

We say that, for a person to enter Freemasonry, they must be free and of good will. That's exactly it. We want to make sure that the person is free, that is, that she is there in her full glory.

Why do you ask her at each step? Because there are steps that are more striking, violent?

Not necessarily. Physically, I don't know. No, not necessarily. It's just that there are several steps in initiation, and we really want to get to that stage where the person is free, she wants to be initiated, and she has no pressure to do it, and she wants to do it by conviction.

And after such an initiation, is there a vote of all the people in the assembly to say yes or no, or is it official? Before the initiation, there are several votes. After that, it's good? After, as soon as the lodge...

As soon as they are decides that the person could be initiated,

the initiation begins, and then it's just the person who can retract if they want to.

Can they fail the initiation?

No.

Are there mental calculations? It's nonsense. An ordeal? It's not a diploma.

No, it's not a diploma. No, no, it's something where the person is guided by a ritual, which is a beautiful ritual, which has been proven for years. And, in fact, there is no failure, if you will, initiation, it is lived as it is. Okay ? And again, we said, in Freemasonry, everything is just and perfect, that is to say that what happens at that moment, must happen at that moment.

How does it work if you want to become a Freemason and enter Freemasonry?

Yeah. So there are two solutions. Either you are co-opted, but for that you have to know a Freemason who introduces you to his lodge, or, for a long time now, obedience, so lodging federations, have put on their website a form where you can, precisely, submit your motivation letter and be contacted, and be put in touch with a lodge near your home.

So, if people ask themselves what obedience, what rite, etc., what I did was, on my account, there's a link, they can see a document I made on how to enter Freemasonry, the answers to the first questions we have, etc., what are obedience, what are the currents, what are the rites... Like that, they see a little bit the process, it explains what's in a letter of motivation, etc.

All the questions that people usually ask me on the networks. And so, if it interests you, if some are curious, all this is available online, directly on my social media accounts.

Ok, I'll put the links in the description on YouTube, if you want. And then in the description on the podcast audio platforms, if you listen to us in audio, whether you're doing sports, at the office, or whatever, while running, on Spotify, Deezer, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Podcasts, you'll have the links in the description of all your networks,

so you can see directly.

What attracted you to Freemasonry? Why did you go there? So, I would say there are several reasons. At the beginning, I was always attracted to history, to tradition. It's something I liked, and it's true that Freemasonry is one of the barriers, if you will, of something traditional, and of centuries, multi-centuries. But more profoundly than that, I had read a lot about Freemasonry. Because of history, I was interested, and I realized, I thought it wasn't that at all,

I thought it was something political, you know, etc. And I realized that it was a way of working on oneself.

And...

It's the personal moment. When I was younger, I lost my father, very young. And I always had the impression of being built on a base that was a little fragilized. And, in retrospect, Freemasonry brought me that, it brought me a kind of framework,

which allows me to do this work, to make a little point about the past, to rebuild some broken columns. It's a little bit this work that I was looking for, more or less consciously, and that I was able to do little by little, that we all do, and that I still continue to do today.

The broken column is one of the Masonic symbols? Yes, that's why I was talking about it, I used it as a metaphor, but it's a Masonic symbol, and we're talking about that, precisely.

You were talking about the ritual before, there are also the three Masonic secrets.

Yes. So, there are secrets in Freemasonry. You have the secret of belonging, okay? You can reveal yourself, but you can't reveal the belonging of another brother or sister.

You have the secret of initiation.

So, it's a good thing not to tell

how an initiation happens in detail.

We can talk about symbols, we can talk about myths, etc.

By the way, everything is for free sale in bookstores

for now 295 years.

So, frankly, there is no secret regarding symbols, etc.

It's a symbolic secret. But there you go, there is this secret of initiation.

And then, finally, you have, let's say,

the secret of everything that will be discussed in the lodge. We want people to come to the lodge, because there are exchanges that are made, brothers or sisters speak up, we want people to do it freely. We don't want them to feel threatened by the fact

that someone else repeats what they said in that space.

There's no phone? No one filming? No, there's no one filming.

There are some who can take pictures in certain countries, or even in France, on certain occasions,

it can be done after the outfit or before.

But during the outfit, during the ritual,

we really try to create a closed space, a separate moment. And so, we avoid taking pictures, etc. You said that we could go through several states of consciousness during initiation, to finish on the subject. What does that mean? You see a little bit the idea of hypnosis. That is to say that via hypnosis, you are suggested things,

you are suggested images, the brain thinks with the images,

and so you are suggested images, symbols, myths, etc.

You will enter a character, you will play a role, in a way.

You really have to see it as a kind of theatrical play,

in which you are also the actor and the spectator. And, in fact, by going through this process,

your state of consciousness will be modified,

what we say in hypnosis,

that is to say that you will plunge into a myth. And you will have an introspective effect that will develop. And so, in fact, you will be submitted, in quotation marks, to symbols, to myths, to stories, that will make you think,, in fact, you will be submitted, in quotation marks, to symbols, to myths, to stories, that will make you think, in real time, about something, something that you will live,

not something that you will read, that you will listen to, etc.

And by living it,

it will have a much more important resonance,

much stronger, much more striking,

than if you had read a book or listened to Freemasonry, that's why Freemasonry is always...

You can read all the books you want.

I had read, before being initiated, books about initiation, etc.

It didn't spoil the surprise for me.

When you live the thing, it has nothing to do with it.

I was going to talk about rumors.

Last question about your initiation.

To understand, did you have any difficulties during the initiation? We were talking about those who were too hot, too cold, too...

What did you have?

It went well. No, it went well, it's a moment that is overwhelming.

And you know, at the end of the initiation,

you have the opportunity to meet all your brothers.

And there, you really feel...

Me, of my brothers, because I'm in a male lodge. and there you really feel a fraternal, warm atmosphere. It's as if you had about thirty people who were initially unknown to you. An hour before. An hour before. But suddenly, something happens. Because the initiation has transmitted something. It created a particular moment. Everyone experiences the initiation at the same time. It's not just the initiator who experiences it.

Everyone plays a role. And there is a cohesion that is created. And it's a very special moment, and you create links with people who were foreigners, without even having spoken to them, and there, you see in the brothers' eyes something very fraternal,

and that's what was most striking for me. When did you officially become a Freemason? Was it right after that? Right after initiation, yes. What do you become as a graduate? At first, you start as an apprentice, okay? It's a terminology that comes from the builders of cathedrals.

At first, they were apprentices, and then they worked a little, a few years, and then they became companions. Well, actually, we have exactly the same terminology. You start as an apprentice. It can last two or three years, you see, depending on the lodges. And then you become a companion, and then you become a master.

You become a master after 7 years, more or less.

And then, is it true that when you get to the top, you are venerable? Is that what we say? Venerable, you said earlier.

Ah, so there are two things that are very different. You have the Masonic grades, so apprentice, companion, master, and then you even have higher degrees according to your rites. Venerable, great venerable, stuff... No, that's really your grades, let's say your Masonic degrees. You see, your grades in your initiatory progression. And then you have the offices of the lodge,

that is, the post that you will occupy in the lodge, which has nothing to do with your degrees.

That you will never lose that.

You never lose your degrees. And the posts in your lodge, it can rotate.

I heard that when you were at the top, you were going all the way down.

In some rites, in some lodges, there is a French tradition where you are at the top, you are the president, and what is called the venerable master, and you go all the way down, in quotation marks, that is to say, you end up as a cover. It's a person, a bit like the concierge of the lodge, it's a person who takes care of keeping the temple door open to ensure that the lodge is covered, to preserve the sacred space

of the profane world, of the world that is not in the temple.

How do you climb a step in the hierarchy?

By work, by assiduity and by time.

It's the others who say, well, he deserves to climb, etc. Yes, exactly.

Do you have advantages in promotion? You discover other symbols, you discover other allegories, and other messages. And you can also have different positions in the lodge. Generally, you see, we were talking about venerable masters, we were talking about

these places in the lodge, they are reserved for people who are masters. You see, you can't have a venerable master

who would be, for example, an apprentice. It would be impossible. I read the rumors I found on the internet about Freemasonry. You tell me, true, false or between the two?

Please, Guillaume.

Most politicians and powerful people are Freemasons.

No, it was true 100 years ago. It's not true at all today. The Illuminati the Freemasons. No, the Illuminati are the Illuminati of Bavaria. It's a confrérie that lasted 10 years, 300 years ago. There were a few Freemasons who were Illuminati, we'll say Illuminati of Bavaria, but they had almost no impact in history.

It was dissolved after 10 years, and frankly, it's anecdotal in relation to Freemasonry. The Statue of Liberty would be a work of Freemasons. Bartoldi was a Freemason, and the Statue of Liberty was inspired by Freemasonry.

The Eiffel Tower would be Freemason.

The idea of the Eiffel Tower, of making a pyramid light that illuminates the world, was a decision that was made in the present.

We're not sure that Eiffel was a Freemason,

there's a doubt that arises about him,

but in any case, the decision to make this lighthouse

that illuminates all of Paris, a pyramid in three degrees,

which represents the three degrees we talked about,

apprentice, companion, master,

you see, the Eiffasonry. At the time, the Freemasonry had, if you will, a little bit of a fight against the Catholic institutions,

which were very repressive at the time, if you will.

And so, the Eiffel Tower is the reason why it is a little higher

than the Sacred Heart, the Church of the Sacred Heart,

to create a symbolism like what the Freemasonry...

I didn't know that at all. It's higher than the Holy Heart to create a symbolism like the Freemasonry... I didn't know that. It's higher than the Holy See. It's just to say that we're above. It was 100 years ago, in a Freemasonry

that had its action at the time, which was more, let's say, against Catholic institutions.

There was a real fight at the time,

but because it was a very particular context.

Today, of course, things have changed,

there are a lot of Freemasons who are in France today, Catholics,

there is really no problem with them.

I've never heard of this story, it's not very well known, is it?

It's not very well known, no.

You know, in fact, when Paris was completely redone under Napoleon III, you know, Haussmann, etc., who completely redesigned Paris,

they included Masonic symbols throughout the city of Paris.

So you have the alley that finally describes the initiatory path, Place de la Concorde, which is between two temples, the Temple of Virtue, the National Assembly,

and...

The Madeleine.

The Madeleine, exactly, which represented war,

and therefore, in represented war and evil. So there's this concord between the two. All this construction is symbolic and was thought of in a symbolic way because the Freemasons liked to put symbols everywhere.

And pyramids?

Pyramids... There's always the myth with the Illuminati. There's nothing in Freemasonry, except the Reigning Delta, which translates a Masonic ideal, if you will. The Delta is a symbol that was borrowed from Christianity. It is simply the symbol of the Christian Trinity. The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

It comes from there. You even look in churches, in old churches, there is still this symbol there that is visible. Christianity has lost all these symbols there, after a certain Hedi. And so that's why in old churches, you still see symbols that are,

you would say Masonic, but in fact, that were borrowed from Christianity.

Freemasons would perform rituals with animal sacrifices. So when you go on sites a little, sometimes, you come across it, you must have seen it, I imagine, this kind of thing.

There is no sacrifice. Some people think that Freemasonry is satanic, etc. There is nothing like that. On the other hand, there are a lot of people who wrote a lot of things about it, because it's a source of inspiration, because it creates a myth, because it fascinates people.

And, well, it's been three centuries that some writers have written anti-Masonic books saying that the Freemasons did this, did that, etc. All of that is a story to be told.

The Freemasons Grand Masters have all the power, the Freemasons, to obey their orders.

No, so, the Freemasonry, the Grand Masters are simply the presidents of the association. Each lodge has its independence, I would say, vis-à-vis the super-association, which we call obedience. And frankly, the role of a Grand Master will be purely, I would say, administrative, managerial, because, well,

these associations, behind them, well, there is also real estate, there is management, there are internal conflicts that can happen. So, the role of a great master will be to watch over all that, but there is no... Each Freemason is free. There is not something that will be, let's say, very... There is not a stick to which we must bend.

Each Freemason still has his freedom. It's not a sect with a guru, everyone is free. The Freemasons would be at the origin of the French Revolution. It's a great myth that is absolutely false. On the other hand, there are many writers who have said it, there are some who thought it, and there is a whole literature that is faithful to it.

In fact, if you want, during the Revolution, at the end of the Revolution, people were scattered. You had a regime that was there for thousands of years, and that in a few years, it completely collapsed. People were shocked, they didn't understand why. And when you don't understand why, what do you do?

You target a military bouquet. And so, we saw the Freemasons, the whole Parisian gratin was Freemason at the time, on the eve of the Revolution. And so, here we see the Freemasons, all the Parisian gratin was Freemason at the time,

on the eve of the Revolution. All the great aristocrats and great bourgeois were Freemasons, the great officers. But I would tell you that Freemasonry was the first victim of the Revolution. On the eve of the Revolution, you had a thousand lodges.

During the Revolution, there were only handful of them. You had as many guillotineers as you had guillotined Freemasons. By the way, irony of fate, Guillotin was a Freemason, the one who invented guillotine. You had guys like Lafayette, who was a revolutionary Freemason,

and you had guys like Joseph de Mestres, who was a monarchist...

It was divided.

Absolutely. Freemasonry was completely divided,

but the country was divided. And that's why Freemasonry has always been porous in the social context. That is to say, it has always been representative of the ambient opinion of the country. Because it is a spectrum. Absolutely, it's a sample.

And if you want, even at the political level,

within my small lodge of 30 people,

no one is politically in agreement. All opinions are represented, you see. Anyway, we don't talk about it because we're not here for that. The Freemasons own the Grail, you talked about it earlier,

and they have access to the fountain of youth.

I saw that. Himmler of the Nazi regime believed it. That's why he wanted to chase away the Freemasons. But obviously, it's false. Why the Grail? Because we associate the Holy Grail with the Templars, and that the Freemasons, for a long period, claimed to be Templars. Of course, affiliation is just symbolic.

There are grades that are of Templar inspiration,

you see, in Freemasonry. Besides, that's why we wear a sword with the famous Templar cross. But all of this is only symbolic. At the time, the aristocrats liked this knightly myth a lot. It was much more popular with the aristocrats, who liked this knightly myth. It reminded them of their ancestors, at a time when nobility was a bit decadent.

But yeah, it's just symbolic. Freemasons would control Hollywood, the media and the music industry.

No, that's wrong.

Hollywood likes to put symbols in their movies,

because it's marketing. Because then the journalists will talk about it, it will make a buzz, etc.

People like it because they have all kinds of beliefs

about the Illuminati, the Freemasons, etc. But it's just marketing.

There is another one.

It is the Freemasons who organized the separation

between the Church and the French State.

That's the truth.

It's a trend, so the French trend,

the most secular trend, we will say, of Freemasonry, from 100 years ago, in a context that was very particular.

It was under the Third Republic,

and the Third Republic, frankly, the vast majority of representatives were Freemasons. It was a Masonic Republic at the time.

And so, it was a secular Freemasonry that fought a little bit, if you will, the regime, let's say, the somewhat oppressive climate that Catholicism had at the time. It's really a very particular context. And it would be wrong to say that Freemasonry fought against religions, against the Church. No.

In fact, Freemasonry has always fought for freedom, if you will, the freedom of people to be able to express themselves, to be able to think what they want, in fact. And in fact, the common denominator is there. At the time, there was really an oppression, and so there were these laws that were in the movement of Freemasonry.

Is it a regret to have...

to separate the Church and the State at the time? in the movement of Freemasonry. Is it a regret to have... to have tried to separate the Church and the State at the time? I would say that the Freemasons who made this law at the time, today, this current that represents a little bit the Freemasons of that past,

they don't regret it, and on the contrary, it's something

that they are generally rather proud of.

And generally, for example, this current,

recently, they wanted to put this 1905 law in the constitution, which is a position.

Here, after that, it depends, it's really an opinion that is shared among the Freemasons.

Yes, it's not...

No, no, it's not...

You know, there are Freemasons who will be very Catholic for once,

and who will be in disagreement with this law,

but, once again, we must re-establish the context of the time.

I have one last rumor, I don't know if it's true either.

The hymn of France, the Marseillaise, is a Masonic hymn.

So, Rouget de Lille, who was the author of the Marseillaise, was a Freemason, and in the Marseillaise,

at certain moments, in the passage, you see, you have allusions to Masonic myths. So here we have put the words of the Marseillaise, which we have printed.

Do you see something that could be related to a word or Masonic signs?

So, we see it.

In fact, it is subtly hidden, as the Freemasons like to do.

You see, everyone knows,

at the end of the Patriarchate, the day of glory has arrived.

Glory is something very important.

Not glory in the sense of success, but in glorification.

Freemasonry works for the glory of the great architect of the universe.

That's something, if you will,

that has been established since the creation of Freemasonry. And in this verse, you have to be a Freemason to see it, but I'll read it to you if you're up for it. These mercenary phalanxes, terraced by our proud warriors, magnificent by their hands, our fronts under the yoke, will be implored,

two despotic cities will become the masters of our destiny. So, the chains, the blow on the front, as well as the despotic cities and the masters involved, all of this is a reference to a Masonic myth.

I can't tell you about it in secret, but the Freemasons understand very well what it is about. And besides, the metaphor is profiled at the end.

Because the Marseillaise is much longer. By printing it, we realized that there were, I think, seven verses, if I'm not mistaken, much longer than the small version we know in a football stadium, for example. In Chanté, we only do the first verse, the first chorus.

And what is most mysterious is that the last verse, the author is not Roger Delisle, he is unknown, and it is the verse that has the most Masonic symbolism, which dates from 1792. We will enter the quarry. So, the quarry refers directly to the builders of cathedrals,

who extract the mineral from the quarry. When our elders are no longer there, we will find their dust there, and the trace of their virtue. Virtue is something extremely important, which is repeated, let's say repeated in Freemasonry. And there, Freemasons will understand, much less jealous,

jealousy being one of the major vice described, to survive them. And so there, Freemasons will understand that sharing their coffin, we will have the sublime pride to avenge them or to follow them. The coffin, pride and revenge. These three words, once again,

refer to a well-known myth, well-known to the Freemasons.

Before we continue, I see that you brought back, if we can talk about symbols, I think this is the moment, naturally, I see that you have a square in front of you, you brought back a wooden square, a square in front of you. You brought a wooden square.

A square that is not made to do maths. A square, if you listen to us a little bit, which is a pretty square. And a compass that is not made to do maths either. We see it's just a golden compass. Can you explain it well?

And then we'll talk about the other symbols too.

Yes, of course. If you like, we can do an exercise. Tell me what you think. Because the symbolic symbols, how do they work? First, they are observed. And then, they try to deduce themselves. For example, if I show you a square, what would it represent for you, Guillaume?

I don't know anything about it. I would say the basic right angle, so the straightness. I imagine it's a symbol with the pyramid, no? Or the triangle, I don't remember what you call it, that Jay-Z does.

Ah yes, the famous rayon delta.

Is there a connection with that?

There is something that is linked to the right angle. Clearly, the square is first a symbol of straightness. So straightness at the moral level, the rule that each Mason must follow, so morality,

the respect of the other, etc.

So all of these are rules that the square represents. And the compass, if you will, in its dimension,

what is the purpose of the compass?

It is used to draw circles.

So the circle will represent, in the end,

everything that will be within the limits of human understanding. And the circle is also to report the measures. And the measure, finally, will be a moral measure. That is to say, the measure of containing these passions,

of containing these vice, in understandable degrees,

so as not to make them overflow in a harmful way on humanity.

It is a system, once again, of morals.

And so, one brick in the other,

each word, each gesture must always be between the square and the compass,

which is actually a moral rule to follow. But, if you want, this is a reading, let's say, very on the surface.

And if it's okay, we can even go even further.

Go ahead. The square is made to square the rocks.

And they usually point down. Go ahead. The square is made to square rocks, and it usually points downwards, so it is linked to the earth, the material element. The compass, on the other hand, is going to be pointing upwards and is made to draw circles

in the creativity of the person who is going to use it, and therefore has a spiritual reference. So you have a combination between materiality and spirituality. And, intrinsically, in the initial rituals, who has a material dimension and a spiritual dimension that is reconciled?

At the time, it was Christ. Christ, due to his terrestrial dimension, Ktonian, the law, the law of the Almighty Father, his presence on earth, reconciles himself with his divine dimension,

the Holy Spirit, and his squares and compasses are generally placed on a Bible which represents the announcement of a new testament. And so, Christ, put on a Bible, represents the Christian Trinity,

the Father, the Son, through the Bible, and the Holy Spirit.

Why is there a letter G in it? You see, the hearts don't count, and there's a G letter. I see you have it on you, by the way. I think on a... I don't know what it's called, by the way. It's a kind of skirt that you put on top.

There's the letter G.

Simply to remind, initially, in the old texts, that Freemasonry works for the glory of God, in English, God. And then, there's a whole mystery, not a mystery, but a symbolism that then spread to other words that the Freemasons discovered along their initiatory path.

There's also the truel, I looked at the symbols. The truel, the plumb thread, in the end, it's a lot of things to symbolize the builders.

Absolutely. The majority of the symbols... The Freemasonry took these symbols from the cathedral builders and from the Christian tradition and then they grafted other symbols

linked to alchemy, linked to Kabbalah, linked to Hermetism. All of these are currents, what we call esoteric, which were grafted much later, to the Freemasonry,

and which gave rise to sometimes original rites, and which allowed to enrich Masonic content.

There's also the level, the abysmal level.

Absolutely, the level. The level, on top of that, is not even a Masonic symbol at first. It has always been a symbol of equality, and it was then taken over by Freemasonry, but we can even see it in the descriptions of the French Republic before Freemasonry. So, more known...

Well, not more known, but the only one with black and white tiles, that's a real Masonic symbol. We sometimes see it, they try to put it in the clips, like that, you have symbols. Is that a real Masonic symbol, full of black?

Yes, but again, we call church, you have the dalation, which is in black and white, which can be seen, for example, as a symbol of duality. That is to say that, in the end, in everything, in the universe, etc., things are not all white or all black. And, in fact, in the end,

it's with a mosaic and a retreat of a mosaic. You know, a Mosaic Pavilion is going to be like that. It's going to be that, at first, you see everything in black and white, you see things in a very binary way, and in fact, the initiatory path is found towards a third way, a way of reconciliation of the opposite.

Of nuance, a little. Of nuance. And it's in the nuance and in the reconciliation that wisdom takes meaning.

So the Bible, you mentioned it earlier, the flaming star, so that's the triangle, the pyramid with the light coming from behind.

So it won't be the pyramid, it will be a symbol that will be discovered a little later, if you want, that comes from the Bible. Quite simply, once again, the flaming star is simply the shining star which is at the base in the Bible, a direct reference to Christ, to Christ in his ascension.

Can you explain to us the symbol of the broken column?

Yes. The broken column, you see, it's... We could simply say the symbol of man, in the end. What is man? You see, this man who is imperfect,

that we all represent. We come into the world with our qualities, but also our flaws, our vice, etc. which are human vice, which are part of being, etc. And, finally, it's a symbol that describes this man a little bit,

imperfect, because the column is broken,

but in the hope that the column will be able to be rebuilt one day. There is a bit of this image of Adam's quest, that is, Adam and Eve who descend, who make the mistake, who fall into the material world, and who have this quest, this spiritual quest, to return to the divine, to find this divine part in them. And it is simply the symbol of the Masonic path.

There is also the hull, to finish. Last symbol, that we can explain. I didn't know that the hull was a Masonic symbol.

A very residual symbol, only practiced in France in certain rites. And a symbol that is borrowed from alchemy, and that simply evokes the awakening.

Is there a purpose in Freemasonry for the State? Is there a purpose for society to move forward?

Is it useful for something, the meetings you do,

work, you will explain more precisely,

but is there a specific goal? Yes. And is there a usefulness today? Yes. So, there is a goal and there is a usefulness.

The goal of the Masonic general current, okay,

it's really... The only goal is the improvement of people, the Freemasons,

the work on themselves, and that they can work, indirectly, according to their sensibilities, as they wish, to improve the human condition. Indirectly...

Improve society.

Improve society, but not in a dictatorial way, but individually, for each person, freely. Freemasonry also has a charitable goal. dictatorial, in an individual way, for each person, freely.

Freemasonry also has a charitable purpose. It gives a lot of money to charitable associations today. It does so, of course, discreetly.

There is a Masonic principle that is very strong,

which is that the charitable action must be discreet.

Otherwise, it only lowers the person who receives

and raises the person who gives.

Who pays for the lodges?

You said earlier, we find ourselves in temples,

so in places, so you have to pay rent.

I imagine, unless they are owners, Freemasonry, how is it financed? So Freemasonry has a real estate heritage. Often it is the owner of the temples, not always, sometimes it is the rent.

How is it financed? Each Freemason gives a contribution. It's an associative cost, so it varies between 300 and 500 euros per year.

So, there you go...

Is it tax deduction, like an association?

Yes, if you're a private individual, you can.

So, there you go, that's how it's financed.

You shouldn't believe it.

Freemasonry, obedience, like any association, they don't make a profit. And there is no lucrative goal in Freemasonry. But they have heritage, it makes a lot of money.

We were able to film a temple. The temple is where you find yourself. Can you explain? I know that there are, I noted in France, about 6,000 lodges, all over the national territory, in the broad sense.

There are 6,000 lodges. What are we going to see? Is it a temple, a lodge? What's the difference?

A lodge is just a group of people. A temple is the physical place where they will meet.

So we're going to visit a temple.

We're going to visit a temple, exactly. And the temple is the place where we meet. In a temple, we will find... There won't be all the symbols. We will visit it while the lodge is in a break, but there will be some symbols

and that's where the magic happens, where the Freemasons get together, in a closed place, and where the ritual takes place, and where all the Masonic magic takes place.

Can Freemasonry influence politics in France?

Can I answer frankly?

The truth is that can influence politics in France? Can I answer frankly? The truth is that we think that Freemasonry can influence politics, but in fact, it doesn't influence it at all.

There is no longer any influence of Freemasonry on politics.

It was the case in the past.

Once again, if you take the period from Louis XV to the last 100 years,

Freemasonry had an impact...

There are no more relationships.

There are no more relationships.

After, there may be, I imagine, like everywhere, people who know politicians, who can make you go through things, I don't know, like...

Very few.

Honestly, today, there are very few Freemasons even within politicians.

Quite simply because it takes time,

and, I believe, maybe that moral perfection

is less interesting to politicians today. But... No, it was just a joke like that. But no, it's not something that's fashionable within politicians anymore. No, what happens is that, yes, once a year, you have a subject that is given to certain lodges,

a subject that is proposed by the Elysée,

which is given, moreover, to other confessions,

to Catholic confessions, Muslim, Jewish, etc.,

and we say to ourselves, if we asked the religions,

we will also ask the Freemasons. So, it's discussed in the lodges,

there is a report report was made,

and then there was a beautiful ceremony with the president. People shake hands, the report is given,

the report ends up in a drawer, and no influence is given.

It's symbolic, once again. It's just the president going to meet the Freemasons

through the legacy of the past, and it's purely symbolic.

I saw a rumor on the Internet that it was Freemasonry that had elected the President of the past, and it's purely symbolic. I also saw a rumor on the Internet that it was Freemasonry

that had elected the President of the Republic, Emmanuel Macron,

by putting him everywhere in the newspapers, etc.

I saw things that were going on social media. It's false, and I would tell you that newspapers tend to be,

when they can, anti-Masonic,

but they know that Freemasonry is a subject that will interest people, that will sell paper, so often it's a little bit of a sulfurous article on Freemasonry. There is no Masonic control over the media.

Question before you can see the inside of a temple that we were able to film thanks to you. Is it visible from the outside? Is it marked Masonic temple? Are there signs? Is there a bell with the word Lodge on it? Or is it invisible?

In France, it's much more discreet. But the temples we're going to see are really big temples. So, obviously, they're big structures that are well known. So it's going to be a little more visible. But in France, once again, because of the history of the past and the persecution of the past and past persecutions. The temples are very discreet and we don't notice it.

If someone asks to visit, who is not a Freemason, can you take, I don't know, a friend, your friends, you have friends who are not Freemasons, others who are, can you take them to visit on a Wednesday afternoon, I don't know, some friends?

There are visits that are planned, that are open to the public, it's possible. But the temples are not open all the time. Generally, it's reserved for the brothers and sisters, for the evening. But yes, there is no closure, let's say, from that point of view. After, the temples are private. Generally, they are closed. But if someone, of good faith, let's say, wants to visit a temple,

there are days that are planned for that. These are days of heritage, where the obedience, well, open the temples, and explain a little bit about Freemasonry. It's not, once again, it's not a society that is secret.

We're going to visit a temple now, and then we'll come back later. We're going to talk about what's going on there, concretely, and what you're doing, in an abdominal, bi-abdominal way, etc. So you gave us the address, we met 2 minutes ago, you were waiting for us with the sword, and we are here. Where are we?

So listen, here we are in the Grand Temple of the Grand Lodge of France. So the Grand Lodge of France, if you will, is one of the great Masonic federations in France. You have three great federations, well you have a little more, but you have three main ones. And the Grand Jeu de France is one of them. What is the Grand Temple here? It's a place where Freemasons gather in the evening to do their work, to practice Freemasonry.

So this is a temple that we can visit, which is often filmed. There are images of it where it's not very open.

So listen, for this temple, it's very exclusive because it's very little filmed. I think it's one of the first times that the camera will be shown to you like this.

So, we're going to go into the temple now. You have a sword to protect the temple, right? Do you really do that?

Yes, absolutely. In fact, there is a person in the lodge, his... Let's say, his charge. His role. His role, yes, in the lodge, he's the cover, he's going to make sure that all the people who can enter the temple are Freemasons. So, she's standing there when people want to enter, and usually, to be able to enter,

that's when the famous handkerchief and the password you have to give may possibly intervene. Okay, so in this case... You don't necessarily have...

You don't know anything, look, I'm doing it like this...

And the password... I don't have it either. But listen, it doesn't matter because we're not going to open up for real, we're going to say the work. We usually hit three times, and then we can go in.

Well, we're following inside. Let's go.

We're going to visit this temple. It's very big.

Yes, it is. It's one of the biggest temples.

Is it one of the biggest in France?

It's one of the biggest in France, yes. There are even bigger ones. We'll see them later. This is the Franklin Roosevelt temple. The American president. He was a Freemason. This temple served as a refuge for the Americans after the war.

There was a donation from the US, and so Franklin Roosevelt was baptized in this temple.

And it was Franklin Roosevelt's wife who inaugurated the temple.

Yes, exactly.

Here we see the symbols we talk about in the show.

Yes, exactly.

We see the triangle with the eye inside. What was it called again?

The shining delta. On social media, you see a lot of things about the Illuminati with the eye that sees everything. But in fact, it mainly comes from this symbol. And as we said, a symbol borrowed from the Trinity, from the Holy Christian Trinity.

So generally, Freemasonry represents the divine principle. And then, in obedience, for example here in France, it will be a more inclusive symbol. It can represent knowledge, etc. Not necessarily something

related to God.

It's the symbol you symbol on the dollar bills.

Exactly, it's exactly the same symbol.

We recognize, there is a... a compass, I don't know if it's related, but you have the compass and the square on the compass you were talking about. In the temple, you told us, so we recognize a little bit all the symbols,

you also told us earlier about the black and white solid of Damier, and you told us mentioned three things. I don't remember how you say it.

The Turner.

There are three columns, three candles on it. They are not the same height. I feel like it's... Why? What is it for? I see it's in the middle, so it's a central element.

It looks like it's moving. I feel like there are wheels underneath.

Yes, and they move. Absolutely. I feel like there are wheels underneath. Yes, and they move. These three columns are what we call the pillars of the lodge. There are three of them, the three main principles. Strength, wisdom and beauty. In Freemasonry, these candles are of great importance because they are lit during a ritual.

And when they are lit, it means that the ritual begins and we are out of time. We are in a sacred space. And in fact, these three columns are used for that. They are used to indicate, to open the works, so the sacred space, and indicate that the ritual is going to start and that the works are going to start. Okay.

I see that there are a lot of chairs. You told us that a lodge was about 30 Freemasons. I feel like there are a lot more than 30. Why are there so many?

You can have about 30 Freemasons in a lodge, but you can, for example, during initiation or passage, as apprentice or master companion, these are quite specific rituals, well, you will have other brothers who will come from other lodges.

Invited?

Invited, and who come to visit, visit the lodge, and so you can sometimes have parties in which you have a hundred brothers who are invited. And I say brother here because we are in an obedience that is purely masculine, but obviously there are mixed and feminine obediences.

So there we see all the symbols, and just something that I have trouble understanding, we have a bit of a feeling of being in a courthouse, we see that there is a stand with the equivalent of a judge's office, finally a puppet, on the sides as well, like the assessors, the judges' assistants. Who is behind the big puppet? What is it for? What does it have to do? Can you explain the role of each one?

Yes, of course. Behind this puppet, there is what is called the Venerable Master. It's the person who will preside over the whole lodge. He will make sure to have an active role in the ritual and will be able to give the floor to the brother, etc. So it's really the conductor, if you will, who will coordinate all this. Then you have different pupils.

So here, for example, you have the one who will monitor the apprentices. The apprentices will usually sit on this side and the companions on that side. Here you have a person who is the secretary of the lodge, who will sit here to speak and give the account of the outfits. And there you have what is called the speaker of the lodge, who will, why not, give speeches when new brothers come in, etc. It's really the speaker who will take the floor. And then you have some specific places.

So here, for example, you have the hospital brother. So it's the one who goes with the little boxes, who will take care of the homunculus to complete what is called the well-being throne of the lodge. The lodge has a little treasure. To do the quest.

Yes, to do the quest And that will allow to have solidarity actions At the level of a lodge, it will be solidarity between brothers who are in financial difficulty, etc. And at the level of obedience, it will be for charitable works

So here we are in what obedience?

Yes, so here we are at the Grande Loge de France. It's the name of the obedience. It's the name of the obedience, the Grande Loge de France. And so, you have at the Grande Loge de France 30,000 Freemasons who are men. It's a purely masculine obedience.

You come to the Grande Loge de France.

What is your obedience?

I don't disclose my obedience. For what reason? Why? Because, if you want to understand,

I do a lot of communication on Freemasonry In general It's a lot of fun, but it can sometimes not be unanimous And I don't want, if you want, that within my obedience, it becomes a bit like the complaint office And as visibility can be quite large,

it can sometimes saturate and make up stories for nothing.

Just before, on the exit there, we see marked Ordo Ab Chao and J and B, two letters. What does that mean?

So, Ordo Ab Chao is a motto that comes from Latin, which means, from chaos, the order is reborn.

So we want chaos to be reborn?

No, not at all. It simply means that things may seem chaotic, but in the end, if we take a step back, we see that there is a magnificent order in the universe, and that it's not a coincidence.

Before we leave, you wanted to show us a second temple.

What is it? The temple is going to be much bigger. It's not a coincidence. Before we leave, you wanted to show us a second temple.

What is it?

The temple is going to be much bigger. It's going to be used for conferences, etc. This is where Emmanuel Macron came to give his speech. It's not necessarily used for work, that is, for Freemasonry, for his rituals, etc. It's more for big events.

For planchers, you mean?

Planchers, it's really going to be work.

That's what we're doing.

It's more of a reception room that we're going to see.

Exactly.

Let's go, we'll follow you.

Come on.

And so here we come to the Grand Temple in Rossollet.

Oh yes, OK, OK. It's much bigger than earlier.

It was already big, but now... This is one of the biggest in France. Is it the biggest in France? One of the biggest in France. There is one that is even bigger. But this one is already very big. It was an old chapel. You see the arches.

It's a real chapel?

Absolutely.

It belonged to a Franciscan order. The old chapel was cut horizontally. We we're on a floor.

Oh, there's a floor below. Oh, it's not the real ground of the chapel. No, absolutely.

They've re-built it.

They've re-built it, it's a floor that's been added.

And there was probably an organ or something.

Yes, absolutely.

Incredible. We can go there.

We can go, yes, absolutely. Come on, we'll follow you. And you find the same symbols as before? You find the same symbols, with the famous delta we saw earlier, with the moon, with the sun. You don't have all the symbols, and you see, this temple is mainly used to hold events, conferences, gather a lot of people. And so, it's a very, very beautiful temple and a beautiful space. And so, this is where Emmanuel Macron came to speak to the Freemasons. He came here.

Absolutely. He came here this year. He sometimes comes here, sometimes he comes in other obedience. And this year, it was here that he made his appointment, right there, behind this pulpit. So we're going to introduce you to someone very special. I'm going to introduce you to the very respectable Grand Master of the Grand Doge of France, Jean-Raphaël Noton.

He is here and...

Nice to meet you. Hello sir.

Hello.

Thank you for welcoming us. Very happy. This house is open.

You are welcome. I know there are not many cameras. I think that... I don't know your name, but you told us that there were not many cameras downstairs, especially in the temple. You don't do much TV. Yes and no. It's true that we have a tradition

that has the reputation of being a little closed,

hidden.

And it's part of this new mandate that I am encouraging to try to open the doors. And opening the doors is in particular to allow cameras to come and see what we have of the most beautiful,

this temple for example, Pierre Brossolette, and then what we do with it, since we have nothing to hide. So you are welcome.

Yes, thank you.

What is your role, to understand the grades, we tried to explain as best as we could to understand what the foundation is, what is your role as a Grand Master?

Grand Master? We would dream of it. There are two things that be disassociated. First, there is life in the lodges, in which there is both a hierarchy and a particular organization. A lodge is run by what is called a venerable master, elected by his peers.

And then, the Grand Lodge of France, you are here at the seat of the Grand Lodge of France, and the banner you see there is the banner of the Grand Lodge of France, and the banner you see there is the banner of the Grand Lodge of France. We are a lodge federation. We have about a thousand lodges in the metropolis, in the overseas and in a large number of foreign countries. This lodge federation has a board of directors at its head, it's called a federal board,

and at the head of this board of directors, a president called the Grand Master. That's what I am. So I am regularly elected by the deputies from all over the world to be, at one point and for a limited time, the boss.

Precisely, so, limited time, you say you have a mandate, is it a quinquennal,

a seventh? How long? So, we don't work at function like in the prophetic life. Democracy is an extremely strong value in our country. A man, a voice, or rather a deputy, a voice. But the mandates are one-year mandates, renewable twice. That is to say that the duration of the Grand Master's presence is three years maximum. He is then replaced by someone else who pursues this policy

and that since the creation of the Grand Doge. Is it that when we get to the top does it seem that we go back down, that we become apprentice again, as we continue to learn? So, you can see with your camera that there is an incredible seat, which is here, which is the seat of the venerable master of the lodge, the boss. And he is also in the lodge, present for 3 years maximum as the boss of the lodge.

And when he has finished his mandate, he will occupy the seat which is near the door, and which is called the seat of the coverman, and he is in charge of opening and closing the door to all those who enter in the temple. With the sword? With the sword, naturally. But what is the most important? It is that he has gone from the most eminent rank in the lodge to the most humble rank.

And this message is for everyone by saying, one day you are powerful, tomorrow you will not be anymore, but you remain a Freemason at the service of the values you defend. And this pattern of going from the most powerful to the most humble, it is true at all levels of obedience and of the jurisdiction. And that's why when I finish my mandate,

I'll be close to the door, to open the door to you, maybe, or to someone else, to say that I found a role that is a basic role. Do you have a utility for the country? Is there a utility for society today? Do Freemasons

work on society's issues to try to bring solutions,

to try to improve the world? It's a fundamental question. Some obediences have a vocation, and it's legitimate for them, to want to reform the laws of the Republic.

It's not us. Here, at the Scottish Rite, we have a particularity, we think that before giving lessons to the world, we must first try to clean our own house. And so the Scottish Rite method is a method that tries to make sure that each of us is a little less bad or a little better than he was when he came home.

And then, on a personal level, in the responsibilities that he defends in life, he is able to pass on our messages. In everyday life, those who live in Perpignan, Montpellier, Lille, how do they have an impact? It is important to understand. Through the fact of transmitting

through their own action the values that we represent. It can be something of a very minimal level, that is, to have the concern of the other,

to have the concern of the other. It's not trivial, in a totally individualist society. And it can go from the most insignificant gesture of help, of fraternity. That's how we say it.

Never leave someone on the side of the road who is disarmed, to the phenomenal gesture of giving his life in the place of others. Arnaud Beltrame, you've heard about him. A very heroic policeman. He was part of one of the lodges of the Grand Lodge of France. It is obviously for us an immense pride to have among our brothers, brothers of this quality who are capable of such a commitment

that goes to the peril of their lives, in this case for Colonel Bertram. We would be a lady to explain. He chose, within the framework of police duties, to exchange his own person against a hostage who was caught in this supermarket in Treb in the south of France. He was executed as a hostage. It was an incredible moment of heroism.

And it so happens that, at the time, I was what is called a great speaker, that is to say, the equivalent of Minister of Justice of this obedience. And I was right here, behind you. And it was me who had this immense honor to pronounce Arnaud Beltrame's funeral praise. And for us, it is obviously an incredible message to say that each of us can, either in a solemn way or in an insignificant way,

in everyday life, participate a little in the fact that humans are not lost from God. Thank you for opening the doors for us.

You are here when you want, and maybe, who knows, one day you will join us.

Thank you, sir.

So, we have seen the inside. Thank you for opening the doors for us. What happens inside, concretely, when you meet? What do you do?

When we meet, concretely, a ritual happens. We practice a ritual. What is a ritual? It's a bit like a play, where everyone is going to be an actor in that play. There are speech exchanges that are going to be made, of people, let's say, very distinct,

because messages and symbols are going to appear. And after that play, subjects are dealt with, especially in France. We call it a board. A board is a work prepared by one or two brothers. On a subject, it can be a symbol or a moral subject.

Like what, for example?

Well, on any Masonic symbol, the square, the once, on any Masonic symbol, the Eucharist, the Compas, etc., or it can also be subjects that will affect morality, such as humility, forgiveness, etc., so subjects that go a little beyond, whether they are subjects...

It will completely go beyond religion or politics, we will not talk about that. In some lodges, on the other hand, there may be subjects that will affect on societal issues. It can happen.

On the news, what's going on?

On the news, it can happen in some lodges. It's not all Freemasonry, and generally in the world, in Freemasonry worldwide, it's forbidden. But in France, once again, it's a particularity to France and to Freemasonry a little continental, in Europe.

There may be these subjects. Does it help you when in the lodge, you have about thirty people, you have, I don't know, a doctor, a judge, a... I don't know, a business manager, and you have a child, can you say, take him to the internship, please? Does it also serve that?

Does it make a network of brothers? Can it help? In the good sense of the term, not necessarily negative.

Listen... Helping is necessarily negative. Listen... C.D., it's not negative. Yeah, no, C.D., it's not negative. I'd say that it's... So, it can be because you create acquaintances, because you create friendships with people, etc., and so it becomes friends,

but as if you were going to a tennis club or a golf club, it's the same. After, a person who makes requests about the professional, etc., it's something very under-regarded in Freemasonry. And generally, when it's obvious, it leads to exclusion in any serious obedience. It's something under-regarded in Freemasonry, to ask,

because it means you're not there, you're just there for reasons, let's say, businessmen or motives that are pecuniary.

Is it true that when you are a student, you have to be quiet?

In some rites. In some rites, made in France, let's say, the student is silent, that is, he doesn't speak to you during the Masonic ritual, obviously, he is allowed to speak before and after, etc. But it's more of a symbol, especially a symbol of listening.

A symbol of...

Learning.

Yes, learning. You know, when you're talking to someone, or when you're arguing with someone, you always have this annoying tendency to prepare your argument a little bit, and not listen to the other person. And precisely, the fact of being silent and listening, and forcing a little bit of silence, it first teaches listening, and then introspection.

You have the Agapes after the meeting, so when you meet again, what are the agapes?

The agapes, from the Greek agape, fraternal love, is simply a dinner where we meet again, and you have to see it as a kind of banquet

with big tables, where we eat together after our meeting, after our rituals, etc. It's a warm moment, it's a friendly moment, it's where you're going to forge bonds, bonds of friendship, fraternal bonds with your brothers

or with your sisters in mixed lodges. And so we eat, we dine, and we talk and we sympathize.

Does the Freemason like to eat?

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. We like good food, we like good wine. We have words for food, we have words for wine.

There is a Freemason vocabulary.

Yes, absolutely. A Freemason vocabulary.

I had noted, so... I'll give you two straight, if you want.

Yes, please.

The glass, you say the cannon.

Yes. Well, that's quite... The cannon comes from the military.

We'll drink a cannon.

It comes from the military. In fact, under Napoleon, there were a lot of military men who were Freemasons, a lot. And so they brought a jargon linked to the military lodge. And so you have the glass, which is the cannon,

the wine, which is going to be the strong powder, the powder to fill the barrel. And then you have, for example, the knife, which will be the cleaver, the fork, which will be the trowel, the plate, which will be the mastic.

You say that?

Not the mastic? We say it at a very particular moment, often it's in what we call the banquet of the winter St John's Day. We have two important holidays in Freemasonry, which are the two Saint-Jean's, Saint-Jean being the patronymic of Freemasonry. So the two Saint-Jean's, Saint-Jean the Evangelist in winter,

and Saint-Jean the Baptist in summer. And during the Saint-Jean's banquet in winter, we use this jargon.

The strong powder is wine, and the weak powder is water. When you drink, you say, -"Tiré." -"Tiré in canoné."

Absolutely. It's drinking a shot. In fact, you have something quite ritualistic in the fact of carrying a health. In each banquet, we carry health, a series of health,

which are dictated, etc. Everyone gets up in a process that is very clear. And it's quite impressive to see.

You say that to say that a person has died, you say that he has gone to the Eternal Orient.

Yes.

You really say that?

Yes, we really say it. It's a way of saying that a person has died. It's a bit poetic. She has joined the Eternal Orient. The Orient, for us, is something that is very important because the Orient is the East, the sun rises in the East, and Lorient will be the symbol of light.

And light is something important in Freemasonry.

-"It's a work of great value", you say, it's a piece of Scottish architecture. I enriched my reflection, you say, I earned my salary. I understood, basically.

-"I earned my salary", see that, it's a reference to the builders, you know, the builders, before earning their salary

from their working day.

And so, earning your salary,

it means, well, I really enriched my thinking,

I earned my due,

that is to say, I earned my money, in quotation marks,

during this outfit.

One last thing, you say...

Instead of saying, I'm done talking, you say, I said. It happens, especially in France, and it's very eloquent. I said.

How do you recognize each other? The Freemasons, a while ago we made a video with a member of the team who said, I think I know a symbol, and he showed us live a handful of hands where you put your index finger a bit further away. Is that a handful of hands to recognize yourself as a Freemason? Or is it not true?

It's not true. And the handful of hands is bad. I can't do it all by myself. So there's something in the handful of hands? There are handfuls of hands, but they're only used during rituals. And it's, once again, a symbol, and we'll never use it in real life.

We'll see.

But it's not that we'll see, it's that it would be really weird. And, on top of that, it's hard to really discern a normal hand, a Masonic hand, and it's really very light, and it differs from one rite to another.

So it's not the two fingers as far as possible on the wrist?

No, that's not true.

Is that secret?

It's secret because it's means that are part of the ritual, but hey...

So how can you recognize yourself? Are there sentences, words?

Yeah, there are sentences. But you can feel that someone is Freemason.

Every time I... How do you feel it?

By the way he speaks, by the way he listens, by the words he uses, by some allocutions he can make. You have rites, Masonic rites, that is, versions of Masonry, where you learn rituals by heart. And it's very long to learn,

and inevitably there are turnovers of sentences that you can then find in the way of speaking, and so you can sometimes perceive turnovers that are masonic. Sometimes, when I hear some speeches from people, I can see some turnovers

that are directly from a ritual.

Is there something, in terms of clothing, that can differentiate you, without saying what?

No. No, generally, there is no... We are in the discretion of Freemasonry, especially in France, and so you're not necessarily going to put on Masonic elements, you can't come like that... I didn't come like a cafe like that.

Sometimes I can guess, in the way he speaks, the way he turns sentences, the way he listens, the topics he can talk about. And then there are the exchange of words, the questions and answers, that can lead you to think that...

And then, when we recognize each other,

we say, yes, where are you from, etc.

I want us to talk about a subject too,

it's Masonic justice.

I didn't know it existed.

Can we be enraged by Freemasons?

Does a Freemason do something stupid?

I don't know, which one? You can explain to us. How can he be out of Freemasons? Is it related to French justice or to each country?

Yes, absolutely.

There is a Masonic justice.

It can be related to French justice.

That is to say, if a person is convicted for a crime in civil justice, Masonic justice gets involved

and it does an investigation to find out

if there is a reason for radiation

within Freemasonry. The criteria will not be exactly the same.

In Freemasonry, Masonic justice is more based on morality,

whereas in France, we are more on civil law, written, etc.

I'll give you an example.

Imagine you take someone who is an independent, a worker,

who has committed a crime because of the TVA,

or who did not declare, etc., and that... because he wasn't in the papers, he has trouble keeping his administrative status, etc. Well, he will be sentenced on justifiable. Masonic justice has no moral fault in itself, so there will be no exclusion from Freemasonry. On the other hand, on the contrary, if you have crimes, for example, or crimes in the white collar, if I may say so,

where the guy managed to make a fool of himself, you see, to divert a little bit civil justice, there is no conviction, well, Masonic justice can embark and can ask for an exclusion, because there was a moral fault, for once.

But even if there is forgiveness, as you were talking about before, the broken column, the fact of trying to bring people back on the right path rather than... Yeah. Everything is...

You know, everything is case by case, and then to see the sincere intentions of the person, where he is in his path, and you can see it. And that's why there's a Masonic justice that talks about it, that embarks to see if there was a moral fault

and if there was comprehension or not of that fault.

As you said, you could reveal yourself or not, of this fault. As you said, you could reveal yourself or not. You have an Instagram account, so I imagine your friends know about it. Do you only have Freemasons friends, since you made a lot of contacts in there, or do you have friends who are not, and who don't want to be, but who are still interested in what you're telling?

Yes, you know, most of know I'm a Freemason, because I communicate on Freemasonry, on social media. So, even someone who doesn't have Instagram, older people are on Facebook, on YouTube, etc., they still see me. So, well...

On the other hand, it's not something I'm hiding, but if you want, there are some who can hide it. At the time, that's why I told you, there is really a cult of the secret of the past. At the time, he was advised in the 80s to the Freemasons not to tell his wife.

Wow. You have a lot of people who write to me on social media saying, I learned at the time of my grandfather's death that he was Freemason because I found this. Can you tell me what it means? Etc. There are a lot. Because there really was this post-war trauma.

It's not something I hide. Generally, with our loved ones, it's not something we hide. It's something that is disclosed. After, there is a concern for discretion for most people.

Are there great leaders or kings who were Freemasons in France?

Yes, there were.

Was Napoleon a Freemason?

Napoleon was not a Freemason. Let's say that philosophy was not his thing, and he didn't have the time. But what he did, he was smart, he saw that Freemasonry really affected the elites. He used Freemasonry to make it shine, on the contrary, and to use it as a propaganda tool,

of control, of surveillance on all the elites of the Empire. So he appointed his brothers and sisters, Grand Masters and Grand Mastresses, at the head of all the lodges. So Caroline Bonaparte, at the head of what we call the Adoption Lodges,

which are the L lodges of adoption, which are the lodges of women. He took the head of Freemasonry. All his brothers, Lucien, Joseph, well, all the brothers, let's say, even his father was a Freemason, even his wife was a Freemason, Joséphine de Beauharnais. He named them at the head of the lodges. They had the role of infusing the ideas of the Empire

and of monitoring the elites to avoid reversal. You're going to tell me if these people, I'm going to quote you, are... Are they called Freemasons or Freemasons?

Freemasons and Freemasons.

So if these people are Freemasons. So you're going to tell me if these people are Freemasons. Buzz Aldrin, who was an astronaut, I'm talking about public notoriety, did they say it or not? We took random names of people who did exceptional things.

So, François Masson, and this is public. Everything that is public, we can reveal it, there is no problem with that. Barack Obama, the president. Not François Masson in any way.

Tom Hanks. I don't think he's François Masson. Is there a great French politician who has been or is a Freemason, who is known and who said it?

So, who said it, yes, there is one, it's Mélenchon. He's the only one who has publicly revealed himself, to my knowledge, among French politicians. That is to say, he said it himself, it's official. He said it, he wrote it in a public book, so... That's why there's no problem to say that...

You don't work in secret?

No, we don't work in secret.

Have you ever seen a politician... I don't know how it works, you know, your meetings... One day, you take off a band-aid and you discover people in your apartment, you said about thirty, have you discovered famous people or do you have meetings in Paris, have you ever seen famous politicians, without saying the names, but have you ever been surprised?

No. It didn't happen to me. I've already seen politicians, yes, it can happen, who were known in their region, let's say. But you have to get an idea, you know, the politicians, even those who...

Because there may be a few who have been initiated. Freemasonry, that takes a lot of time, and generally, today, politicians have, let's say, a huge amount of management, that they just don't have time to come to the office.

A Vladimir Putin, a Donald Trump?

I don't think neither Vladimir nor Donald Trump are Freemasons. Russia left Freemasonry, but again, on surveillance. Vladimir has a bit of a Napoleonic reflex, for once. And Donald Trump, he understood very well that the United States had a Masonic tradition, there's no problem with that.

Jay-Z, is he a Freemason? By doing all these symbols?

I don't think so, no, I don't think so.

I don't think so, and again, the symbols he can do are marketing for his brand. Is François Hollande, for example, Nicolas Sarkozy, Emmanuel Macron, is there one who was Freemason?

So, there you mentioned the presidents, let's say, of the Fifth Republic.

The last ones.

Let's say, no president of the Fifth Republic was Freemason, except maybe one. But, well, there you go.

We don't know. Except maybe one. But, well, we're not sure.

Okay, okay. Thank you for explaining that to us. I saw that there's Walt Disney, is that true?

Yes, absolutely. Walt Disney and François Masson. And I don't know if you noticed, but we have Mickey's white gloves.

But no.

That's why Mickey has white gloves.

You're kidding.

Yes. That's why.

Yes, Mickey has white gloves with three fingers by the way.

Yes, so Mickey has white gloves with three fingers and also the two big ears, the two stars, the sun and the moon which are symbols borrowed from the pagan traditions and that we also find in Freemasonry. And then the white gloves, so that's why we see them in Disney. At first, the gloves were really a symbol of equality. It was to put everyone on a pedestal at the time.

Aristocrats, nobles and bourgeois, because quite simply...

On a pedestal, you mean?

On a pedestal, because it allowed to hide the knights, the nobles. And it was convenient for the aristocrats, because they were used to wearing white gloves.

Because there were the bourgeois and the nobles who were not the same.

Exactly. It was not to differentiate them. It was so that when there were very strong social distinctions before, there were really the aristocrats at the top and the bourgeois who had no title of nobility, but in fact the symbol was that in the lodge, when people came in, they were brothers and they were on the same level. And so, they put on gloves to hide the chivalry, On mettait des écharpes comme ça pour cacher les baudriers des épées. Tout le monde portait une épée, parce qu'avant, seuls les nobles avaient le droit de porter une épée. En loge, tout le monde portait une épée,

et donc on créait une égalité vers le haut. Tout le monde était aristocrate en loge. C'était la symbolique. Est-ce que l'Élysée needs a moral caution, an intellectual caution. So what she will do is that she will generally ask religious institutions

their opinion on this question, and she will also ask the Freemasons. So, on certain subjects, she will ask questions. So the questions are studied in the Masonic lodges, so each lodge works on this subject. Not all lodges, some of the Freemasonry's churches will work on these questions. And at the end, a report is written.

This report is given to the Elysée during a beautiful ceremony, everyone shakes hands, etc. This report ends up in the Elysée's drawers. Honestly, there is no hands, etc. This report ends up in the drawers of the Elysée, honestly, there is no influence on this. It's just that at least the Elysée said, well, we asked for the confession,

they gave their validation or not on this, it gives us a caution for this action.

In fact, it's useless to consult, but they do it...

It's useless, but at least it gives them a caution to say, well, we didn't do that alone in our neighborhood. As it's something that governs society from an almost philosophical point of view. The last question, for example, was about the end of life. And there were articles that said that the Freemasons put forward this law on the end of life, on euthanasia, etc.

It's not true at all. I would even tell you that Freemasonry, for which, generally, the belief in God, in this family, is required, is not really for the end of life and euthanasia. So, again, it's mixed.

But, in short, on these great philosophical questions of society, the Elysée needs a moral caution. And so, she will ask for it. She will ask for life in religious a religious confession, Catholic, Jewish, Islam, and also she will ask for it to the Freemasons.

And so, this is what happens. People think that there is a whole influence on the laws, it's not true, it's purely symbolic, it's simply the president who asks for life and then has a nice party in commemoration of the heritage of the Masonic past.

Can we see a Masonic symbol on a French monument, hidden or not, that everyone doesn't know about?

Yes, you have it on the frontispiece of the National Assembly. The frontispiece is what we see in a kind of triangle of the temple, in quotation marks, of the National Assembly. You have a person holding a compass on one side and on the other side, you have a person holding a compass on one side, and on the other side, you have another person holding a square. You also have the Palais Hiena,

where you see mosaics that are superb and that represent a symbolic or Masonic myth. You have, honestly, Masonic symbols, you have a lot of them in Paris,

and it's quite amusing, by the way, to be able to find them. There is a lodge that made a scandal at the time in France, in the 60s and 70s, which was accused of influencing politics. It was the lodge Atanor, does that ring a bell?

Yes.

Does this kind of lodge no longer exist?

No, but it no longer exists, and it's really, let's say, an exception that has existed, it's unfortunate. It must be taken into account that Freemasonry, during the last 60 years, there must have been about 10 million Freemasons who succeeded each other. Of the 10 million people,

of course, you'll see some scuffles. It will happen. But there are still exceptions. We're making a whole story out of it, and the media, of course, is taking over from this story. You have to know, for example, that you have the Lodge of Tannor,

and you also have another lodge, which caused a big scandal in Italy, it's the P2 Lodge. They thought that the P2 Lodge had fomented the Pope's assassination. In the P2 Lodge, of course, there were mafia networks in that lodge, but it was one lodge, and, in addition, when it became a mafia, it no longer belonged to Freemasonry, it was excluded. And, obviously, the Tannor Law, as soon as there were these scandals,

it was de facto excluded, that's obvious. So, there are scandals, but because there are scandals in every human organization, Freemasonry cannot be impermeable to all that, on millions of people, but we hope that the ratio will be much lower.

What is the difference? Are there marriages and Masonic burials?

You have rituals, yes, for a Masonic burial. You also have wedding rituals, it can happen. Less common in France, more common in England, in the United States, but it can be done, yes, absolutely. You have rituals that rituals written by that.

I was in a cemetery a while ago and I just saw a kompas on a tomb. There was not even a name. I don't know if it's a relation. I guess so.

So, probably. Usually the kompas is a reference that is still quite strong. No name, it can be a commemoration. There is no ritual specific to that.

I don't know if it was a Freemasons' thing to not put a name.

Not necessarily, no. There may be a symbolism behind it for the Freemason who wanted to do it. But no, there is no specific thing about the name.

I have two last questions. How did you announce to your family that you were a Freemason? Did you announce a dinner? Did you tell them? Did you reveal yourself?

It depends. On the side... The family, on the paternal side, it was quite natural. Because... It was one of my cousins who introduced me to Freemasonry. So, everyone knew it, there was no problem at that level.

On the other hand, it's rather... I'm from a rather... I would say, a traditional Catholic, aristocratic environment. And there, it was necessary to explain a little more. There are a lot of prejudices, especially with Catholic families,

because Catholicism, the Vatican, denounced Freemasonry quite firmly, and so there are beliefs that have accumulated, etc. At the time, the entire aristocracy frequented the lodges. At the time. Today, it's lost. And so, it was necessary to be a little more pedagogical,

I want to say, on that side.

And so, we were talking earlier, at the very beginning of the show, about the report during the Second World War. To finish the show, I learned that the Nazis were looking for the Freemasons, thinking that you had the Grail and access to the fountain of Juvence. Himmler believed that, he convinced Hitler of that. And so, some were deported to concentration camps. It's not a rumor, there were Masonic lodges that were made in the concentration camps

because they were deported and they were reunited

to continue, in fact.

Yes, absolutely.

Himmler was a bit of a crazy esotericist.

He didn't convince Hitler, Hitler didn't care, he didn't believe them.

It's just that Hitler saw a bit of a threat, you see, of networks

among the Freemasons. He didn't want it to be organized against him. But yes, the Freemasons were all deported.

All the Masonic archives were...

The Nazis took over...

The Vichy regime took over the archives.

And in the concentration camps,

there were lodges that were profiled,

that lasted, because there were recognized themselves.

And so, there's a book that explains that.

And in those lodges, there were brothers

who, in the most absolute chaos, in the most horrible misery,

made astonishing tombs to keep hope.

I'd say a lot more stability,

a lot more hindsight on the past, on previous injuries.

You've healed, you mean?

Yeah, we never heal completely,

but in any case, a lot more scars. And then also a brotherhood, benevolent people,

inspiring people,

examples. And so, if you want, a kind of moral guide, a reminder of morality, of the respect of others, of self-giving. And really, something that has also marked me the most, is really this sacred side of work. For me, masonry, work is something symbolic,

the work we do. The work table, because the stonecutter worked in his career. Work is something extremely important and ultimately has a sacred dimension in Freemasonry. And finally, work is going to be what you want to give to the world,

what you want to give to society, what you want to deliver. And there is a dimension of self-giving, of sacrifice, which is a bit sacred with that. And this dimension that we don't have at the beginning, on work, as something constraining, etc., suddenly, we give it meaning.

When we give meaning to action, and meaning to what we want to give to others, well, there, finally, there is a sacred dimension that opens up, and I think it's one of the keys to happiness. -"Our work is sacred"?

It's a sentence. It's a motto. Will you remain a Freemason all your life? Yes, I think so. I'll remind you, if you want to follow the Freemason, because I don't have your first name,

well, at least officially, don't give it away, if you want to follow the Freemasons, so it's the name of your account, on Instagram, on TikTok, and on other social media, right?

Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Facebook, Thread, and then what I also do is write posts on questions people ask themselves, on what is Freemasonry, discovering Freemasonry, how to become a Freemason, how to join Freemasonry, discovering Freemasonry, how to become a Freemason, how to enter Freemasonry.

So, I'm also trying to demystify Freemasonry, so that people can find questions to answer the questions they have.

You have hundreds of thousands of people following you on social media, so I'll put all the links, if you want to follow them, no matter the network, in the description of this video on YouTube, if you follow us on YouTube. Thank you for liking the video, guys. Also, if you want, feel free to comment to tell us what you thought about it.

These are reactions too. You will read them in the comments, me too.

Yes, with pleasure, yes.

You can put the little bell to be aware of the next releases. on Spotify, Deezer, Apple Podcast, Amazon Podcast. Thanks for being a legend. 1er Podcast of France, put us 5 stars on the platforms, it helps us a lot on the reference. And in the description, on the podcast audio platforms, I will also put you the links of the François Baston. It's hard not to say a first name when you know him. Anyway, thank you, you did a great job.

It wasn't too hard to talk... Because it's not easy to choose your words according to... You know you're going to be watched by... Yeah, by a lot of people, so I try not to use too many words. No, but too many to say, not enough...

Yeah, also, yeah. There's also this balance, yeah. There are things that we don't reveal, there are things that we can, etc.

Do you sometimes contact people to become a trainee?

Did it ever happen to you go to see someone and ask if they were interested in joining? Yes, absolutely. It happens to me, and that's how Freemasonry has grown. It's because people come to us, someone saw a potential, an interrogation, a certain curiosity about something.

So I've already been able to people to join the Freemasonry and some of them did. Thank you very much.

You're welcome. Thank you. I didn't feel the fingers pressing on my hand.

That's right, I should have taken off my glove.

Thank you very much for coming to us, for telling us and explaining a little more about Freemasonry. I hope you enjoyed it, that you found it interesting. Don't hesitate to comment if you want us to do more shows on other subjects, or to reinforce or even to do other episodes on Freemasonry. Thanks to the whole team for preparing the show with me.

I kiss you and we'll see you soon for a next video on Legendes. I kiss you and we'll see you soon for a next video on Legendes.

Ciao everyone! I'm out. Thanks for watching guys!