FURIOUS Retired General DESTROYS Trump’s Military STUNT

I don't know about you, but that show, that performative show that happened yesterday by the quote, Secretary of War Pete Hexeth and convicted felon Donald Trump, when they hauled in from across the world in a mandatory appearance requirement, all the one, two, three, four star generals and their enlisted advisors hauled them into a room so they could get a public dressing down? That was a bridge too far for me. But who am I to assert an opinion on this? Who we really want to hear from is retired Lieutenant General Mark Hurtling,

almost 40 years of service in the U.S. Army. He is, for me, he knows how to level set what expectations should be when it comes to the American military. He also has such a clear headed vision for where our country is heading under the leadership, and I say that in quotes, of Pete Hegseth, former Fox News host. So I wanted to have this important conversation. Parts of it are incredibly sobering. Parts of it are enlightening, as always, and part

of it is actually encouraging. So take a listen to Lieutenant General Mark Hertling. As always, it is truly a privilege, and I want to underscore the word privilege, to be able to spend time with retired United States Army Lieutenant General Mark Hertling, former commanding general of the US Army Europe and the 7th Army with almost 40 years of service in the United States Army. General, thank you so much for joining me today.

Katie, the privilege and the honor is all mine. It is great to be with you once again. I always have fun whenever we talk.

Yeah, sir, listen, I anticipated having this conversation with you, and I wanted to bring you in specifically to get your take on what transpired yesterday. I'm still troubled by the moniker, the Department of War. I think that it obviously sets the tone in a way that is not only unwelcome to most Americans,

but frankly to the world. And I'm actually gonna have us play a quick clip. This is the Secretary of War, as is his new title, Pete Hexeth, talking about pacifism and his take on it. So Adam, if we could play that.

And as history teaches us, the only people who actually deserve peace are those who are willing to wage war to defend it. That's why pacifism is so naive and dangerous. It ignores human nature and it ignores human history. Either you protect your people and your sovereignty,

or you will be subservient to something or someone. It's a truth as old as time.

General, he could try to say it as dramatically as he wants, but my fear is, as I just stated, you're setting a tone by saying that message. And can you let our viewers know who was in that audience? Because I think it's really important. It wasn't just Fox News viewers, right? Even though it was broadcast on Fox News, talk about the people in that audience and why when you

start with that message, when you're referring to this audience, specifically why it's really setting, like I said, a message from the top down.

I think anybody in that audience could have debated him with success on that statement that he committed from the stage. In the audience, what you have are the one, two, three, and four star generals who are in command of organizations around the world, different levels of command, unbelievable responsibilities, on board ships, on the ground,

in the air. But just as important, Katie, there were the command sergeant's majors and the chief petty officers, the master chief petty officers, and the senior enlisted advisors from all of the forces. And the reason I bring that up in part of the conversation, and please excuse my language, but those are the automatic bullshit detectors. These are guys and gals who grow up in the ranks,

and they've been privates before, they've been sergeants, and now they're the senior enlisted advisors to those generals who have about the same amount of service as they do. And all of the people in that audience, I would suggest probably have between 25

and 40 years of service in uniform. Now consider that you've got a thousand people there. How many millennial does that combine into that have experiences in all different kinds of peace and war? And they know how good their forces are.

They know how good their military personnel are when they come together in teams because that's what they do. And the last thing I'll say just to sum it all up is this is not a business. They are members of a profession.

And when you're part of the profession of arms, just like when you're a professional lawyer or a doctor or a minister, which are our four big professions, you abide by the tenets of a profession. And some of those tenets are, number one,

you instill values and ethos of the profession. Number two, you do something in the society that no one else does. Number three, you discipline and possibly even dismiss fellow professionals who don't live up to your professional standards.

So having a guy come in who appeared, and I'm gonna put it bluntly, when I watched Secretary Hexeth give his presentation, it was very polished, like you said, he's a TV guy, he knows how to do that, but it was also with the ambiance of a lieutenant talking to a platoon

of soldiers, which is what he was. He got to the point of being a major in the National Guard, but he basically was in combat as a young company grade officer and not with a whole lot of experience. So in those kinds of cases, most leadership manuals will tell you to use the ratio of your eyes and ears versus your mouth. You know, listen and watch four times as much as you speak. That has not been the instance with Secretary Hexhep. And I think

it got him into trouble with those in the room yesterday, because there was some internal rolling of eyeballs that were not obvious in the audience, but they were there, I guarantee

it.

So I don't want you to obviously disclose any confidential or private conversations or communications you may have had, general, but I presume that there was some shared sentiment with you about this whole experience yesterday. To your well-taken point, Hexeth was speaking in such a demeaning way to the people that were present. Not only did he criticize kind of, I think, the mission so far that has been, you know, over centuries for the armed forces, but he said that the troops were fat, that the women pretty much couldn't carry their own weight when it came to being in active combat,

and he pretty much suggested that, you know, what had been done so far was insufficient and was inadequate and that they, as in the generals, needed to ship up or ship out. And it just seemed incredibly degrading in the messaging that he had.

Yeah, another leadership trait, Katie, that we talk a lot about in the courses I teach is you should always praise in public and discipline in private. And yet, in this case yesterday, he had the entire leadership of the armed forces

where their soldiers, sailors, airmen, Marines could be watching, as well as all of the American public, specifically because he had a camera crew there to film this. And so it was more than just an ass chewing, if you will. This was a public insult. And it contributes, in my view, to the further damaging of an institution,

which has a very high rating by the American people. The last recording I saw in terms of polls said that 62% of the American people believe in the capability and the effectiveness of the American military. That compares to like 30% of the presidency and 12% of Congress. So not only is that a factor, but I'm gonna go even one step further. Our allies were watching

and our foes were watching as well. So not only was he beating up these senior leaders, men and women, officer and enlisted in a public forum that was being broadcast across the country and everybody watched it. I mean, I don't know how many didn't watch it,

but everybody's talking about it. But it was being highlighted to people around the world on cable television and YouTube videos and all those kinds of things, where I not only got some messages from people that were in that crowd who I served with, you know, I'm not that old, I retired 12 years ago, and there are still some

people in the force that I know, who talked about their consternation at what had happened. But I also got several messages from former colleagues, counterparts in other militaries that I used to partner with in Europe. And I won't even give you that number, but it was more than five. And guys messaged me and said, really, what's going on? Because you guys are damn good.

And we've been partnering for a long time. And we know how effective the US military, what the heck is going on here? So even, and I didn't get any text messages from any Russian generals or any Belarusian generals, but I'm sure they were excited because their strategy

of further dividing our nation and further dividing our institutions and our presidency continues to be ongoing. That's the real problem I have with everything that went on yesterday.

So I want to play for you now another clip of Pete Hagseth where I found this to be one of the most alarming things that was said yesterday. I mean, admittedly, there was a lot, but this one deals with not having rules of engagement. And it kind of not only says, let the shackles be off, but it suggests that there's not gonna be any type of consequences for war crimes, frankly, General.

And I couldn't believe it. So Adam, if you could play that clip for the General, please.

We are preparing every day. We have to be prepared for war, not for defense. We're training warriors, not defenders. We fight wars to win, not to defend. Defense is something you do all the time. It's inherently reactionary and can lead to overuse,

overreach, and mission creep. War is something you do sparingly, on our own terms, and with clear aims. We fight to win. We unleash overwhelming and punishing violence on the enemy. We also don't fight with stupid rules of engagement.

We untie the hands of our warfighters to intimidate, demoralize, hunt, and kill the enemies of our country. No more politically correct and overbearing rules of engagement. Just common sense, maximum lethality, and authority for warfighters.

That's all I ever wanted as a platoon leader.

Sir.

There we go back to the platoon leader days, Katie. And I'll tell you, I've had these kind of discussions as both an assistant division commander and a division commander and as a major in combat during Desert Storm, where you have that lieutenant said, just turn me loose and I'll do everything you need to do.

Well, I mean, it just shows a lack of a strategic vision and a strategic understanding of what the laws of land warfare and the Geneva Convention do. It is, I mean, you're a lawyer, you know these things. You know, if you commit crimes in combat, it first of all diminishes your moral authority as a nation, but secondly, it will eventually cause unbelievable moral injury to each individual

who does those kind of things. And again, I'll hearken back to Russia again. Russia, after their fights in Chechnya and their beginnings to see it now from a result of their fights in Ukraine, those soldiers who were totally unleashed

and become barbarians on the battlefield and don't live by any rules instilled by their commanders, they go back to civilian society with a great deal of moral injury. That's proven, that's factual data behind that. Now, as a commander, you have to worry about that.

I had to worry about that. I watched troops very closely when they were getting into tough firefights and even sometimes pulled units out of the fight because they were getting a little bit too froggy and how they were approaching the enemy. That's what commanders do.

And for the Secretary of Defense to stand up in front of one through four star generals and their enlisted advisors who know this inherently because they've seen it in a much greater realm of operations than he ever has, it is insulting. And that's why I say not only are rules of engagement important, sure, you can adjust them based on the situation, but he decried every single rule of engagement yesterday.

The tape you just showed, showed a complete disregard for any kind of control and command of forces under your charge. And that's troubling to me, because it's morally and ethically against what I believe is the role of soldiers on a battlefield.

So put yourself back in that role of active duty service, sir. You're in that room, you hear this from the quote, secretary of war, who is saying pretty much, there are no shackles on you, you know, unleash the hounds, I guess is the phrase, right? What do you as a general then do

after you leave that room and you hear this, are you under any type of orders now to have to do something with what you've heard?

Well, the commanders on the ground are the ones that actually issue the rules of engagement. Those don't come from the Department of Defense. Okay. You know, it's what I heard General Marnie Dempsey called the thousand mile screwdriver from DOD, you know, coming from the Pentagon into the force trying to adjust what they do. And that's not the way it's done. I mean, commanders on the ground understand what I just said to you about the moral injury and the moral responsibility.

So they will dictate their own rules of engagement. What's troubling to me, truthfully, Katie, is what happens if there's interference in that? Now, if the interference comes from the president, here's a dynamic, you can wrestle with this one being the lawyer that you are. If the order comes from the president,

and he is immune from criminal activity, that's one thing. But soldiers and commanders on the ground are not immune. And they are responsible to the rules of the Hague, the requirements of the Geneva Convention, and they can be tried as we've seen in the past after wars are over.

So what I'm going to do as a commander is I'm going to emplace rules of engagement, and I'm gonna hold my soldiers to that responsibility to uphold those rules. But the problem is gonna be when you get that young immature private

or that young immature lieutenant, like Lieutenant Hexeth just claimed he was, who says, why do we have to obey this? What's going on? Well, then I can hold them responsible. And by the way, there's precedent for this.

Because as a Fox News anchor, Mr. Hexeth, not Secretary Hexeth, defended war criminals and got the President of the United States to free them, one of them before his trial even began. And that caused a tumultuous effect inside of the SEAL community and the military community

where that happened. And it caused commanders on the scene to really do cheetah flips to try and fix that inside

an organization that they legally have to control. Well along that vein, General Hegseth yesterday also said that if you have marks on your record, we're going to get rid of them. We're going to you know clean that slate, wipe it clean. And it really wasn't too much to have to dig beyond the surface to understand what he was talking about.

Well, no, it didn't. And one of those getting rid of marks that make you unclean is an investigation that's ongoing on him today. When he said he wanted to get rid of the IGs, the IGs right now are inspecting, are actually conducting an investigation in his use of the Signal App, which runs contrary to all law. The other thing connected to that, Katie, and I don't want to leave this topic until I talk about this, is his comments about putting hands back on recruits

and trashing their rooms, what drill sergeants call smoking a soldier. We went away from that 30 years ago because it's ineffective in training young people of these new generations to perform as members of a team. You know where it didn't go away?

Because I saw it was inside the Russian army. In my three visits to the Russian Federation, I got to see Russian basic training. That's what they do. And they instill such fear and corporal punishment and hazing and trashing of rooms

and beating soldiers with rods and pipes, that those soldiers are reacting on the battlefield by not having the trust in their leaders or in their government,

which we see today in Ukraine. That's just such a horrific takeaway. And I appreciate you kind of peeling the curtain back and letting us see what's happening in other countries. I will, go ahead.

Let me just say one more thing, if I can, about that.

Of course.

You probably don't know this, but before I commanded US forces in Europe, my job before that was commanding initial military training. So I was in charge of all basic and advanced individual training for soldiers, officers, and warrant officers.

We brought in 160,000 soldiers every year, had literally thousands of drill sergeants. And you can probably remember a time in the news when drill sergeants weren't behaving very well and they were not only hazing soldiers, but causing death. And in some cases, having massive rings of sexual assault

against female soldiers.

That's right.

That's the kind of control that you have to have to ensure that the professionalism of the force, not only is good in their training sites, but produces the soldier or the sailor, Marine, Coast Guardsman, whoever, they can go out and act independently in the kind of doctrine

we produce in the US military.

I mean, you gotta start from day one and move forward. I mean, it's not like you just do it and then you abandon it. Like it's the development and the evolution of the soldier, I think, over time through their enlistment. I wanna play a clip of Trump, Adam, this is the training ground clip.

It's really short, a general, but I want to ask you something about your thoughts on the other side of it.

Adam?

But I want to salute every service member who has helped us carry out this critical mission. It's really a very important mission. And I told Pete, we should use some of these dangerous cities as training grounds for our military, national guard, but military.

He's talking about American cities. I mean, he said you can take them out as in fellow citizens, fellow Americans. He talked about Portland and Chicago, L.A., D.C. He was talking in ways that dehumanizes people that are political opponents, political party affiliations that may not be Republican. How does this impact the psyche of the American soldier hearing from the President of the

United States, who's the Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces, stating not only can you take them out as in Democrats or, quote, liberals With that, they want to use American cities as training grounds for the American military service members to be able to learn what? Brutality? To not have rules of engagement?

Yeah, and I'll hearken again back to the capabilities of the US soldier today. Katie, what we're talking about is throwing them into police roles, which they have not been trained for. Now, I've taken an independent survey of myself, looked at some research in terms of different cities in the United States to produce a policeman,

the amount of time varies city to city. There are some cities that have, you know, and police officers, and police officers, and police officers, and police officers, and police officers, and police officers, and police officers, and police officers, and police officers, and police officers, and police officers, and police officers, and police officers, and police officers, and police officers, The vast majority of US military on the ground in cities is no one who has been trained in police work.

There's a very small percentage of military police men and military police women in our National Guard and our active duty force, not big at all. And it takes a whole lot to go into a city the size of Chicago or Portland. I was in Chicago a couple of weeks ago

when he said he was going to put military forces in there. And I thought, holy cow, you're gonna need a whole bunch of people because this is a really big city with a lot of streets. And to control a city like he's suggesting would take tens of thousands of soldiers

because we learned that in combat. But you also have to have tens of thousands of soldiers who aren't posing a threat to their fellow citizens. In each one of these states, I mean, think about this, you know, when we talk about National Guard deploying to Portland, as an example, in each one of these states, the National Guard he is deploying are fellow citizens of the people in

that state. So the ones that deploy to Portland are from Oregon. They are their own citizens. And they're facing off against college students. And most of these National Guardsmen have jobs. You know, some of them may be police officers, but not many. But they're being asked to do things that they are not prepared to do.

And it can only cause problems, in my view. So that's why there's policing, and then there's defending the nation. that they are not prepared to do. And it can only cause problems in my view. So that's why there's policing and then there's defending the nation. And I'll go back to that defensive nation as opposed to Department of War thing

in terms of what we do.

General Hertling, I wanna thank you for your time as always. You are so generous with not only me, but with the viewers. There is a value in hearing from you and from others that have honorably served our country and sacrificed in ways that we will never be able to adequately say thank you, but it troubles me and it pains me to see what we just saw yesterday because I know that's not how you were trained. It wasn't how you were even just raised, right?

Just as a person. It's not what we believe in. And it just completely, I think, makes us look like, not all of us, but makes our country look like we're just warmongers. And it takes this nationalistic, very,

it just makes nationalism a thing of shame, right? That you can't be proud of a country that's advocating for this type of stuff. And so I'm always grateful for your time, sincerely.

Well, thanks, Katie. If I can just say two more things and give you a measure of hope. Please. The first thing is, having served for four decades with the great women and men of our military,

I will tell you that there is no finer trained or diligent force in the world. They are capable, they are effective, they know what is expected of them and they do it extremely well, no matter what Secretary Hexheth

or the President said yesterday. The other thing about yesterday was it was a collective reminder of the professional culture inside the military that transcends politics. The professionalism and discipline of those senior officers and NCOs was on full display in the audience. It was not often on full display on stage. And we've got a lot to be thankful because that, our organization of the professional military, no matter what people think, is not breaking and it's not bending much.

It is struggling with some of the challenges they're facing right now and some of the words they've heard, but they're going to get through this okay. I'm confident of that.

Well, I'm grateful and thank you for letting us part ways on such an uplifting note. As always, retired Lieutenant General Mark Hertling, thank you for your time.

Thanks Katie.

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