Gareth Bale: Real Madrid Reality, Turning Down United & Life With Ronaldo | Stick to Football 119

Gareth, did you want a coffee or tea?

I'll have a...

I'll just have water, please.

Water, sure.

How much did Tottenham pay for you, Gareth?

They bought me for 10, and then I think there was somebody in the end that ended up going the other way a year later. I don't know. So it was 10.

Did they have a sell-on on you?

No.

I don't think so. How much did he go for to Madrid? 86 or 87. Wow, what a mistake that is.

They might have, I actually have no idea.

Are you OK?

I'm good, how are you?

Good, yeah, good thanks.

It's been a while.

Are you good, Joe?

Yeah, when did we do league?

It was probably like two and a half years ago. Oh my God, I'm thinking that was like last year. I know, because I... It was just a... Hi, Garret. How are you?

Nice to see you.

Yeah, all good.

This is nice.

This is a nice top you're wearing.

You said it's something you'd wear. Look at the golf mates. Huh?

See, come on.

This is what we want to do.

Because we play golf.

Well, he's had was like last year. I know, I'm pretty sure it was just after I retired,

since Jamie was hounding me to come on. So I was like, yeah, I'm coming on.

Gareth, let's start with golf.

Right, you can't wait to talk about golf.

Come on, let's talk about golf. You're a scratch golfer.

Yeah.

Does that mean like literally if it says par three, you'll do it in 3. Well, not always. LAUGHTER

No, but Gareth's...

We had a couple of 4s yesterday.

It's pretty impressive.

Have you played together, like, in them pro-am things?

Not played together yet, but we will do. Absolutely will do. Remember, I've done my knees, so I'm just coming back. I've been for a 13-year swing change. And I'm like, it's starting to happen now, guys. That's how long my swing change is.

You need to get a coach.

Yeah.

Have you got a coach, guys?

I've had a few lessons recently over the last couple of years. Yeah. Off, you know, Robert Rock? Yes, that thing where he's got his thing. I haven't. but no. It's to stop the slice, isn't it? Have you done it? Yeah, it's brilliant. Does it work? What is it?

It's like something you strap on to. It straps around your chest here,

then around this arm.

So it keeps this arm tucked in. Tucked in, because if you start, that comes when you start.

It starts coming inside and over the top.

So it keeps your arm here. Can I ask you, can you overthink all that stuff? Yeah, definitely. The full game. Look at all that stuff there.

You can overthink the full game.

Yeah, but the thing is, you need to stop the bad ones. So if you have to think about that, you always have thoughts. It's like the minimum, the better.

So it's like a football, I suppose. When you're taking that swing, you could have a thousand thoughts before you actually get and strike the ball. Yeah, yeah. That must be frustrating if lads are trying to take it seriously.

Yeah. Golf.

Golf destroys your mind.

Golf is the hardest sport.

No, I think it would be good for you because you could take your anger out, you know, when you drive.

Just picture someone's head on the golf ball and just smash it.

He wouldn't have to do that.

Yeah, I'd have a hundred heads before I get done. Quite too for a tackle, yeah. No, I don't think it'd be good for me, I swear. Why though?

It's a bit of a push-pull.

It also depends how you play golf. Some people play just for social, some play it to get better, some play it for a bit of everything. So kind of...

What do you play for?

A bit of everything. Yeah, I played a couple. Wentworth? He was on Wentworth yesterday.

Yeah.

I struggle because the kids are doing so much on the weekends, so I try and get a few mid-week comps if I can.

You played Pebble Beach as well, didn't you?

Yeah. That was good.

How about Augusta?

Who are you going to Augusta with? You said that last year, you shot a really good score as well. Yeah, no, I was... Off the back tees? I was 1-over through 15 and then I finished bogey, bogey, bogey. Crumbled a little bit, but played off the master's tees, which was good.

Master's tees. A bit of altering scores to be decent.

No, no, no.

Are you a member?

No, not a member. I need to know. You need to catch up. People don't realise, you cannot get on Agusta. That's why when Rory was there, I was trying to bend him. If you're going, just give me a shout, bro, I'll come and play Agusta with you.

You have to play with a member or something. You have to be a member.

You have to be signed in or something.

Could you be a professional golfer though?

No, absolutely not. The amount of times I get asked this yeah, and actually was funny because when I played The went with pro and with Rory yeah They asked him after and like I obviously know that you're a scratch be there like a plus eight, but under pressure It's like you know when someone goes. I could play football you like You might be alright on a Sunday league you might look good But you come to like the physicality of football everything is just different And it's the same with golf like I'm a'm a scratch, but like, put a bit of pressure on me,

I will crumble because I'm not used to it.

Right.

You shouldn't really admit that, Gareth.

I wouldn't admit it.

No, but like, if you don't put me in front of like 30,000 people in a Ryder Cup, I'm so pleased there's another golfer here to help me.

do you ever feel nervous?

Yeah, they're a nice nervous, they can still hit the ball, but it's like, they know where their ball more or less is going, we have no idea. That's why I feel nervous about it. But it's like in a football match, you know you can control your nerves and you know how to play football. That's how I would describe it. The first take Wentworth putting your ball on the tee. Yeah, you've got to put it on a little thing.

He was playing with McIlroy, yeah. Was that you playing with Rory? Rory, yeah.

He just throws it down and holds it.

Fucking horrible.

And people expect you to hit it well.

Did you hit it? Yeah, a good first one.

So you did. I threw it.

Isn't the first one because everyone's like there?

You also feel like they're judging you off the first shot. That's the worst part. The thing with Rory, though, everyone follows him round every hole. So you've got... It's every shot.

The thing that people don't realise as well with football, as soon as you're a footballer of a golf club, as soon as you get on the tee, everything stops from everywhere. And that's the pressure you have to deal with all the time. Every time you're a golfer. You don't know about teeing off, right? Most people can be watching you, truthfully.

What do you mean? Just like a normal day?

There's got to be a few thousand.

But then television.

Yeah, but forget the TV.

How many people watch something?

Probably, Ryder Cup will probably be about 10,000.

Right, 10,000.

Jesus, come on.

Yeah, but it up... We're playing for the 89th division. This is a good story. The golfers aren't getting that.

You might not touch a football for about 25 minutes. They have to hit every shot.

25 minutes, not touch a football?

In a game of football, what's the average time you touch a football?

That I didn't touch the ball?

The average.

Average, where I didn't touch the ball, 10 seconds. I'd always be getting on it. course. 25 minutes? He's set off after 25 minutes. Hey I crack the jokes around here guys. No 25 minutes. Have you ever tried it? I have tried. Have you ever saw pitches? Yeah I've played if the lads were stuck. If you were short of numbers yeah of course. Gary have you ever played? Yeah I used to play. He was a good player. Yeah I was to be fair. My first house I bought when I was 18 I actually bought on the golf course in Bury and I used to play all the time.

But I found myself, because you get quite addicted to it don't you, you become obsessive. And I do think, that was more going to be my question actually, do you think it's good for football players? There was a time with England where we'd be in a tournament. And I thought the lads, it felt like to me the lads were more worried about getting on the golf course after the actual training session, it was about training.

In France, remember France?

Yeah, and I stopped. Yeah, but if it was a good course, would you understand that a little bit? But I stopped playing golf at that point because I just thought it must tire you out,

it must sort of, your joints and things like that. And that's how I think now a little bit. What do you think on that? I find it worse. If you sit on a sofa and you get up, you're like, oh my God, I feel horrific. At least you're like, it's like active recovery. I always found it. And like when I was playing, I'd always take a buggy because yeah, if you go and walk, what was it? Like seven miles. I liked it for that reason. Stick to Football is brought to you by Arm Clothing.

Did you meet Sir Alex?

No, I think he actually called my mum.

Tapping you up with your mum.

You did very well in Spain, I didn't do as well.

I remember I scored and you were the manager.

You had to do the game.

I know, but we had 10 men. I never wanted the circus that goes with it. I just wanted to play football and go home. The Cristiano that you took, anyone? On the left, it was him. On the right, it was me. And in the middle, it was normally him.

I would want to see Tottenham go again.

Arsenal, as much as they hate Tottenham, they need it for the rivalry for that Premier League.

I didn't mind watching City go down, I'll be honest.

To lose was like a massive devastation, especially to England, and then to see you run down the

sides. Embarrassed by that though, a little bit.

Embarrassed is no good, I'm passionate about my country. I'd be embarrassed as well. I'm passionate at the same time. So you were never going to United? Well, Manchester United offering similar money to me.

He wanted to go to the bridge!

This guy's turned down Man United twice, right? I need to get to the bottom of that. We've had a lot of guests on, there's 118 of these shows, and you are the most decorated player we've ever had on. Five European... I was talking to Roy last night, Roy came to the sofa, five European Cups, five Champions League.

That's amazing.

After going for, what, 86 million?

Jeez!

I mean, it's ridiculous, really.

Yeah, I don't really think about it, to be honest, like that. I just... I don't know. I never... Even though I never thought of it while I was playing, when you stop, I guess you look back, but you don't really see the severity of what you've done. I don't know, it's just one of those things that...

I guess people say it so often, you kind of just, oh, yeah, yeah, kind of thing. It's the same, how many Premier League titles have you guys won? It's like, you don't go, how insane is that? How many have you won? But you don't go, ooh. No, but I think to be fair-

Lloyd tells us every day.

I think to be fair, you're right. I mean, when you win a lot of Premier League titles, it's great, but to be fair, we, I think, all of us understand the challenge of winning a Champions League. It's almost like-

At Real Madrid. You know, we won leagues and I think it's difficult to do, but to win Champions League was like, it was a monumental, to be fair, occasion to get to a semi-final and get into a final. And just talk to us about the Champions League and Real Madrid, or the European Cup and Real Madrid.

Yeah, and I think just by going there, straight away I realised they just prioritised the Champions League. Like the league, again, it's a tough one being in Spain because it's two teams maybe athletic or jumping now and again. So the league, you have a few games where it's probably more than, probably half the games you know you're going to win, it's just by how many.

So you can kind of, not take it easy in the league, but it's not like the Premier League where you're like week in, week out, just ties you out. And we would just prioritise the Champions League. How do you do that psychologically in terms of prioritising a game? Even the atmosphere is bigger at the stadium. The fans expect you, the president's like, he's there the day of the game at the hotel or at the training ground.

That's Florentino Perez.

Yeah, and like, it's just more emphasis put on the Champions League, and you know that, and then you come to the Champions League night

and it just means more. It's like a final every Champions League game. Talk to us about Perez in the sense that you sometimes say in football that owners should sort of keep their distance, they shouldn't be anywhere near the football, but you're telling us that he's basically on the day of a Champions League game at the hotel. Is that home anyway?

He would literally be there talking to the players?

Most games, just having a chat, just there. He was always... Saying what? Not a lot but just… Just there. His presence.

Just there, just his presence.

And you knew that when he was there, it was like, oh, this is even bigger now. Yeah. Just because he's the president, you don't want to let him down. He's obviously the one who signed you, he's put his faith in you and you had that relationship with him that maybe I guess

you don't have with owners in many clubs. Why is it different over in Spain or different countries

where the owners have that sort of what would be real presence?

I've never really thought about it to be honest, but it's just he's so in love and I think with the game. And he also, as much as he is a great president, he loves the celebrity status that comes with it, I think. And he likes to be there and he likes to be seen. Very political, isn't he?

Yeah, it's a political kind of position, the Real Madrid and the Barcelona president, both of them and even Atletico are now. So yeah, everything's just…

That's the norm over there, I don't know what you mean to be saying.

What is it like? That's the culture in Spain, isn't it, how it works?

Yeah and he doesn't own the club, that's the thing. No, he's like a guardian really. Yeah, and I don't know if this story, you need to have 150 million in the bank before you can be the president. So there's only two or three candidates every time. I don't know if it's true, but you hear the rumours.

And they want to make a legacy, because they can make their legacy through that like we can in our football career. So for him now to be able to win so many Champions League under his guidance, it makes him the greatest president in Real Madrid's history.

Is he the architect behind the signing of sort of like the Galacticos?

He's the one who started it.

He's the one who started it. Yeah, yeah.

The figurehead, wasn't it?

Yeah. So yeah, he was doing that. there's people below him as well on the board level that like Jose Angel, who's the CEO, who are very much on the same page. And you always talk about owners needing to be on the same page and sporting director and manager,

and they control everything. And if the sporting director or the manager are not, that's where they're gone. So they just control the whole club.

You know, your personality for a club like that, when you went there, could you feel the intensity, the pressure that's on that club?

Yeah, straight away. Even training, we have this balcony above us, it's just full of press. Just like... Every training session? Not every training session, but the day before,

it's just like... It's like when you go to a stadium in a final and all the press there on the side, it is like that every day before the game.

Does that make you get used to it? Do you know what I mean?

Yeah.

For the big games.

No, it does. And you know the microscope is on you, there's newspapers designated just to Real Madrid. Here it's just like papers and you just go Real Madrid and it's just covered in, whether it's online or whatever, it's just all about the club and it's just the expectation. And you know you can't take your foot off the gas because they'll come after you straight away.

So, it's, yeah, it's just one massive microscope and you know you have to be on the ball because they'll sell you and get someone else otherwise.

Did you feel it, because your personality, you're very calm. Yeah. That's obviously helped you. Yeah.

Could you feel the intensity of it in your calm persona? You can, but I always just... When I went there, I was obviously playing well, I had kind of come through the ranks and I was confident in my ability. So I went there thinking, I never worried anything about my football. That was like, even my first training session,

I was like, I didn't feel any. No, because I just thought, I know I'm good enough. So I always felt like that was taken care of and even moving to Spain, I'm like, I can move to Spain because I can cope with any style of football.

I'm physically quicker and stronger than ever and in my head I can shoot, I can score, I can do all these things. So going to another country for footballing reasons was never an issue. And then obviously settling in living-wise is a bit more difficult. Yeah, it's just...

Does anybody look after you, Gareth, when you got there?

At the start for maybe a couple of weeks to help you find a place, and then you're literally on your own. Is that good though? We hear about players don't almost do it themselves. Yeah, well I had to grow up. I think that was good for you. Yeah, I had to grow up very quickly and I think if I stayed playing in the Premier League maybe I would not have grown up as a person quick enough. I always had my daughter just before I went out there, my wife came out and yeah, we just, we had to grow up a lot quicker and

fend for ourselves. Obviously I had a great agency who would look after me as well to help me out and we have good people around. But yeah, it definitely made me grow up as a person and a player a lot quicker than being in your comfort zone, people around you, family, speaking the language, all those things.

How old were you when you went out there?

Twenty... Twenty-three or twenty-four.

Oh wow, that is young, isn't it?

I didn't realise I was that young.

Yeah, so I was there, what, nine years, I had a year back, so eight years I was over there pretty much.

I can imagine it being quite difficult, that. I mean, you say you settled into it, but I can imagine the pressure, because you're coming from Tottenham and I think Wright has alluded to it, you always felt quite unassuming, like you didn't really demand the headlines, you weren't that type of football player but you were up in there alongside Benzema,

Cristiano Ronaldo, how was that? How were you put under pressure differently than say they were or was it all the same for all of you?

Yeah, I feel like a lot of players go to Real Madrid and it's like this glitz and glamour and I never was like that. I just wanted to go there and play football and go home.

Is that enough for them over there?

Which clearly it wasn't. Personally, I think that's probably the biggest thing. I never would want to go and do interviews all the time. I'd have to sometimes. And just, yeah, I never wanted the kind of, I don't know, the circus that goes with it. I just wanted to play football and go home

and be with my family kind of thing. And I think for me, it's probably not enough for the fans. They want to get to know you. They want to know your personality. They want that bit of ego. I never really was me.

And again, I was so stubborn I was unwilling to change. And there's other things that I was stubborn with that probably if I played the game a bit better I would have probably been less targeted by the press and the fans and stuff.

You targeted a lot?

Yeah, I think so and even, I remember leaving a game because whenever we were injured or suspended, you could leave 10 minutes for the end of the game. That was like the rule, you had to be there. I remember I left on like, I'd always leave 82 minutes, missed the traffic and because we'd lost,

there was like a picture of me and they were like, you left early and then I'm on the front page of the paper and I'm like, I do the same as everybody else but you just felt a bit more targeted and then because I wouldn't then come out and defend myself because I was like I just don't want to, I guess they just carried on piling in.

Yeah, you still took on, didn't you?

Yeah, which I look back now and people are like, oh, do you wish you did things different? I'm like, no, because I didn't change and that's what I like and I know maybe I got a bit of a lot more criticism than I should have but again like you said I stuck true to myself I didn't change and I yeah in a way proud of that.

Yeah where did that criticism come from in the sense of why were they so pointed on you? I'm asking because to be fair I was over in Spain for four months and you did very well in Spain I didn't do as well. I remember I scored with a manager. I know you did but we had to do as well. I remember I scored it with the manager. I'm pretty sure. No, you didn't. We actually drew the game.

I know, but we had 10 men.

Give me a little bit of credit. Give me a little bit of cake. You drew.

You drew.

You drew.

You drew with Real Madrid?

We drew with Real Madrid.

And we should have scored in the last minute.

It was unbelievable. Do you know something? After that game, I think Rafa Benitez got sacked, didn't he? Yeah, probably, yeah.

Sounds about right.

So did you.

That's his best result.

What's it like playing in that front three? Because people will talk about Messi, Suarez and Neymar around that time, but your front three of Ronaldo, you and Benzema, I mean, it's a joke, really. Wow. I mean, it's a joke really. It is an absolute joke. But how is that in terms of the characters? Benzema talked to us about him.

Obviously we know Cristiano, three of us played with him. But how is that? Because they've got massive personalities, big egos. They need to succeed. They have the pressure on them as well. How is that for you, sort of dovetailing with those two?

We generally, everyone got on really well in the change room. We never had any issues. I got on really well with Karim. He was very quiet and was more just with Varane, who were the French boys. He would always keep himself to himself,

but we never had one argument, never had any falling out. We got along, we played well, obviously, together. He was like that, obviously me and Cristiano were down the wing, probably the bit more flair. He was the one who was, I guess, gluing it all together. Joining up. He's that focal point. But it just all seemed to work together really well. When I went there, it was kind of like maybe the final

piece of the jigsaw to that team. So we had a bit more balance and then obviously the positions worked out perfect with Cristiano on the left, me on the right and then Karim just that false nine but actual real number nine as well.

It took him a long time to get credit, didn't it Benz?

Yeah.

He only won there, he won a lot later.

No it did.

He only just made for three.

No he won. But then Cristiano's there taking the headlines a lot. I come for a big fee.

But he didn't come for this massive fee

I can imagine. Some of the best player lads, some of the best strike partnerships, you never even worked together.

No, exactly. And I've been through the teams in certain interviews before, and it's like, when you actually look through the team, at that time, you'd arguably be like, everyone's the best in their position. If you're good players you should be able to play together and you obviously also being a good player you know what they can't do, what they can do and how you, you know for example Christiane's not

going to come back and defend so maybe I'm gonna have to just sacrifice a bit and come back and you just figure it out as a team and the manager will obviously give you some things to do and stuff but it it's just not rocket science. You lacked a bit of pace.

Definitely not that. Remember the goal in the final at Barcelona? You actually run off the pitch, don't you?

He's giving his high five to the people on the side.

Oh, was that one of your best moments?

That was the first moment. I actually got a bit of stick that first season. I felt like I was doing fine fine but I didn't have it.

I scored 48 goals.

But they were like, oh you haven't had a moment. I'm like, well it hasn't been a final yet. This is the first one, it's like March or whatever it was. So to kind of score that goal in a final kind of like got a lot of people off my back straight away because you come for a big money signing and it's like, it never really bothered me, but at least it's just. Yeah, but then you sign off with a proper goal. Yeah.

What were your goals, Tal, at each season? Just take us through it.

I can't, I don't really.

What was the most you scored in one season?

I have no idea, maybe 25, something like that.

Yeah, but then with assists as well.

But assists, yeah, because you gifted a lot to Cristiano. Otherwise. Goal involvement. You could add maybe another 10 on to that maybe, that you just pass across.

Talk to us about Cristiano, because obviously when he played at United with us, he was getting to a point 2006-2008 where he was, I think when he left us he was the best in the world at that point probably with Messi, he was absolutely sensational and obviously he kicks on and he was massively driven, wanted to be the best player in the world. Is that your experience of him when you were in the dressing room with him at Madrid?

Yeah, the driven part, yeah. I think when I came, obviously watching him when I played in the Premier League and when I was a bit younger, he was definitely more of a flair player and a winger. As I came to Madrid, I felt like he was just starting that transition to becoming a goal scorer, where he realised that if I get goals and I don't have to do so much, I'm going to get probably even more plaudits and credits.

So he was still doing the dribbling and stuff, but as he got older,, just transitioned more into it. I think just as I came, he was, first two, three seasons, he was still probably similar to the United Cristiano and then transitioned into that,

like, right, I don't need to come back so much. I can position myself better for counterattacks. And yeah, just how driven he was in training, in games, just to score goals. Literally, all he wanted to do was score goals. And ultimately, that's why he's got so many records.

Was he demanding in the dressing room? Who was the big leader in that dressing room? Obviously Ramos was in there, wasn't he?

Yeah, I'd say Ramos was by far the biggest leader. Cristiano had his ego and was a leader in his own right from what a player he is. But in terms of the leader of the team, it was, yeah, clearly right.

What's Danny Carvalho like? Because he's been there for a while and he just seems like an unbelievable player and he's just like under the radar,

can't tell, nothing, never gets any credit. I just find he's like a bulldog, he's like a right back who just will give you a good performance, even if he's playing badly, he will just keep going after you, just nibble at your heels, does it in training, and it's just served him well. And he's never, a lot of players have that dip in motivation or he just stays there. He's still there. Yeah, he had a bad knee injury a couple of years ago, but he's still...

Unbelievable.

Yeah, he's still... Unbelievable. Yeah, he's still... Yeah. Would Ronaldo be mad if you didn't pass it to him? Sometimes when I watch some of your goals, like it come in and you hit it on the bowling and he's like...

We were speaking about it just before, I've had a few arm flails and I've missed a one-on-one and I maybe could have passed to him but... I think you also have to take it that is his drive and that is his motivation. He just wants to score, not just one, but he wants to score three, four, five, six a game if he can. And you know he's chasing records and he wants to score this and he wants to beat Messi

doing that and it's, you get it. And I think also you can't argue he's scoring the goals. And I think even when it came back to him at United people were like, he's not the same, but he still scored the goals. Which ultimately is the hardest thing to do in football. But yeah, he was just so driven. You know going into a game, you pretty much had a one-nil head start

knowing he's going to score at some point. So it was always a good confidence booster for the team.

What was the Barcelona game like?

They were always the tough ones. I just always felt there was, whenever we played Pep, if it was Bayern or Barca, it was always those games that you felt like, we were chasing shadows for about 80 minutes and then we just got a counter and try and nick the game. Of course you'll have periods in the game where you keep the ball, but you knew those games you're not going to have your normal possession

and they were built up obviously. Did you score against them? Yeah, I scored a couple against them. Not as many as I would have liked but you don't really get many opportunities against them, especially with that team.

Even at Real you accepted that they were going to dominate possession, you had to put your egos to the side and say alright we'll just pick a few moments.

And we had the perfect team to counter attack so it did also work in our favour. You beat them in Bayern away, didn't you? You had four, was that four? Yeah, four or five. Yeah, you were bringing them in to counter attack. Again, we just low block and we knew we had the pace and the power and the calmness of the team to do that. We were great off set pieces with the centre-backs we had. We just accepted it. There was going to be a couple of you've just got to, like you said, take your ego out of it and just... Strange thinking Real Madrid doing a low block, innit? No. You had to.

Against Pep, it seems, you had to. You had no choice.

You go 1v1, we tried it a few times, it's like, oh...

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Get back.

Were you the quickest in the team, though? Because when I watched that sprint, you literally just knock her past and just go. Were you the quickest?

Christiano would argue otherwise. As he would, but yeah, I would like to think, yeah, I was the quickest.

You don't want to race later.

No, my answer is no.

You should be chill.

Yeah, you'd be.

Talk about Zidane, because obviously you've got this man, and he's not appeared since sort of anywhere, which is just amazing really that he goes in, does this job. What was he like? Because obviously he's one of the greatest players that probably we've ever played against. What is his style day-to-day dealing with all these massive personalities, egos, characters, and then getting you all to sit back behind the ball in certain games and be compact and then counter.

How is that? Because you'd think he would be someone that wouldn't like to give possession away against the Pep team, for example.

He also played Italian football, so he kind of, I think, got that side of it as well, especially at that time where they're very defensive. But again, he didn't do that much. He's just a team player.

Does anybody do that much at Real Madrid?

Not really. You're not doing that much. Most tactics we would do is, you knew if you had Barcelona or Bayern, you would do a little bit of tactics. The rest would be minimal. It would just be your normal training, possession game, little goals, finish with a game, shooting and you go.

That's quite similar for us now, isn't it? The big games where you do a little bit of it.

The big games then you do 15 minutes of tactics in defensive shape rather than attacking and that's it.

Was he good with the... Obviously he had huge respect and credibility. Was that his main quality?

Did he join in?

He did join in, yeah. Christ, chop me a few times. He was actually the assistant in my first season with Carlo and Paul Clement. He joined in more then when he was a little bit younger and he would be just that touch. It's like his legs were like spaghetti and jelly all in one and the ball wouldn't move. In training he would just chop people still. He was obviously a little bit slower but he wouldn't look out of place at all.

What was the difference between him and Ancelotti? How would you compare those two? I would say his main thing was the respect he got from what he was a player and people would respect that and work hard. Obviously you're also at Real Madrid, you can't just fob it off like maybe you see in some other teams but Carlo, his man management was like the best. If you weren't playing he would make you feel like you're still his best mate. When he needed you, he'd be like, you've got to be ready and you'd just be ready. He just

had that amazing ability just to keep everybody together, happy and just willing to do everything.

That's the key at Madrid I'm guessing. It's not about training sessions.

Again I've said it before, you don't need to be a coach. You don't need to be a coach, you just need to manage this group of players and let them do what they do. Of course, there's a few tactical things that he does. It's just not so much.

It's a very different club, Real Madrid. Every other club, you think of it as a philosophy, but the philosophy at Madrid is how do you handle these massive personalities and characters and win the Champions League, isn't it? They're not necessarily the best tactical coaches that Real Madrid have, but they have people who are great man managers. They're actually old school managers, aren't they?

Yeah, which is why when Xabi Alonso got sacked recently, I was like, it doesn't surprise me. If you try and do too much, players don't want to... Vinicius and Baffley don't want to... Vinicius and Baffie don't want to be going back there and they want to play their game and win a game for you. They want to defend and win a game for you. So, yeah, you just need to be a great man-manager. You don't have to be the most amazing tactician. And it's just as simple as keep as many players you can happy.

Obviously, no, you're not going to keep everyone happy, but just let them do what they do. It was always like, can we outscore the opposition more or less? We might win 7-3, but we would win. Even the fans were so demanding. I remember a game, I think it was against Sevilla, we were like 5-6, they let up. 60 minutes had gone, we just started keeping the ball, we were just getting whistled. And we're like, they want seven, eight, nine. They're like, you can't stop.

Right.

So, yeah, it's just...

We think that's easy for a manager to do that, at a big club, almost let the players get on. But it's hard because some managers would say, I need to be doing more.

Yeah.

Almost stay out of the way. Is that their ego? I remember asking Venga about the story when he first went to Arsenal, when he first started watching the coaches, he said to the coaches, you're all talking too much. Just let the players get on with it and figure things out.

Do you think it's to cover the back a little bit? So see if somebody scores, like we went through that in training, remember?

No, but sometimes I feel... Who's watching me?

Is somebody watching? I trust what I'm doing, let him get on with it. But still giving the right information, but not brainwashing you. Kyle Lonshawty's been mentioned as a potential candidate for United. How do you think he would potentially fit in there? Do you think it would work or do you sense it might be a struggle for him?

He did well at Everton and they didn't have a great... I think he would do great.

He's not just a manager, he is well at Everton and they didn't have a great… I think he would do great.

He's not just a manager, he is a coach as well. He can do the tactical stuff. When his son was then the head coach in his second spell and he did a lot more tactically then than we did the first time. I think we had a better team in the first time. But yeah, I think he would… wherever Carlo goes, I think he would do an amazing job just because he gets everyone on board. And if you go into a big club, you've got good players, whether they're performing at the time or not.

Like, Mane and I had, they have been the last few weeks, but prior to that, haven't been performing, but they've got good players. He'll get the best out of players and will just simplify things, which you see now with Michael Carrick, he's simplifying a lot of things that the previous manager was doing and you're getting results. So that's Carlo's genius,

is getting the best out of the players and just making it simple.

Stick to Football is brought to you by Arm Clothing. Super Six is back this weekend for the FA Cup, another chance to win the £250,000 jackpot. It's completely free to play, all you've got to do is predict six scores and you could be walking away with life-changing money. 18 plus T&Cs apply. What happened at the end with the slogan that upset the Madrid fans?

Was that the Wales, Golf, Madrid?

That was nothing to do with me.

When Wales qualified, he had a flag.

There was a flag called Wales, Golf, Madrid. The Spanish press created it. Again, you asked me just before we came on, how much did you play golf? I'm like, I played, I reckon I played once every two or three weeks.

At Madrid?

Yeah.

That's not bad.

Well, that's what I mean. But the problem is, if you're the press and you keep writing something, if you read something, you believe it, right? So, they created this kind of character, the perception that I'm constantly playing golf. Because you're not really talking to him. So I'm not going to come out and defend myself.

I just can't be bothered. It just creates a bigger, sometimes you add smoke to the fire and it just kicks off even more. So I never bothered with that. And I would always have my own rule, I could never play 40 hours for a game. So if we played Saturday, Wednesday was the last time I could play. That was just from my point of view because I like to be professional and I would always do the things I need to do to be ready for a game.

So again, it's just the media creating this thing and then it turns fans against you and then spirals out of control. It comes back to I could have come out and maybe gone, but I feel like what's the point?

You're one of the youngest guests we've ever had on Youth 36, which blew my mind before the show. You've got to be older than that, sure.

I don't look that old!

It's me! But thinking of that, we talk a lot on here about how the modern player handles, I mean you're under huge pressure, you're £85 million, you play at Real Madrid, the most highly scrutinised club in the world, Social media, to be fair, has become quite prevalent in the last sort of like 10 years. How do you handle that when you're playing? Are you on social media? Are you on your phone? Did you see other players on their phone?

I remember when I was younger in Southampton at the time, I read a review on the previous game and obviously I didn't play well and actually affected my confidence and I was like... I'm not doing that again. play well and actually affected my confidence. And I was like, why would I do that? So obviously you hear stuff when you play bad and someone makes me or send me something funny that actually affects me.

But you don't say anything. But yeah, so I learned from pretty young that, again, everyone says if there's a hundred comments, one's bad, you're only going to focus on the bad. And if it affects me playing, why would I do that? So I was involved in my social media,

so if I was to have to do pictures or post out, I would be involved, but I would send it to the person running it. And they would manage it. And they would manage it. So I'm technically still doing it all,

but I'm just not in it, if you get what I mean. I was quite critical probably five or six years ago of players who I felt were, the posts weren't authentic because they were not, you could tell it wasn't them. Because when they do an interview after the game, you know what they are, and then they put a post out

and it was like almost perfectly written and sort of everything was like amazing. When I think of it now, probably five, six years on, I actually think that what you're doing and the fact that they don't get to see it is absolutely the right thing.

100%. 100%. Because like you said, if it affects your confidence by just reading something, you know if you've played bad in a football game, you know if you've done something wrong. So if it affects your performance, you've got to be thinking of yourself and your team like,

what can make me perform the best the following week even if I am playing bad. What can get me out of a slump is not reading anything negative, it's trying to just work on your game, work on in training what you need to do and just prepare yourself as best you can mentally because you know you can do it, it's just sometimes it's form, sometimes it's whatever but yeah just give myself the best opportunity

to play better. It's like an addiction for players, don't it?

Some players are literally addicted to the form.

It's hard to get off.

It is.

You see that Tottenham period? There was a period of Tottenham, I can't remember that stat about if you play they won't win. I can't remember what it was, but like…

Oh, it was 24 games. Something like that. You remember? So obviously you don't read, so how are you feeling through that? And when though, so this is perfect. The manager would be telling him, don't worry. So I think it was... Was it with Harry? It was with Harry, yeah.

Left back, though, was it?

Left wing back or left back?

Left back, yeah. So it was one of the boys, I still remember it in... We were having a pre-match at the stadium, White Hart Lane, games. I actually didn't know. I was like, oh brilliant. Wicked, that's all I need. It kind of became a little bit of a joke. But again, I didn't know most of the way that it was happening so it kind of helped me in a way. But we didn't lose them all, we did draw most of them. Going through that, it was probably like a six week period that I

kind of knew about it. It didn't help. But then the boys would joke about it, so you'd laugh around them inside.

I know.

I know someone, if you remember the Champions League, he didn't score in his first 30 Champions League games.

Did he not?

Yeah.

I might have made that up. It was something like that.

Pretty bad, I think.

30 minutes.

27 games. 27 games.

You got through that though, Gareth. When did that Gareth Bell come?

Because all of a sudden, it just exploded on you. Harry put me on. We were winning 4-0 against Burnley. He was like, well, if you lose this, you're aiming technically. He literally said that to me as I came off the bench. I think he said he spoke with Sir Alex about the kind of jinx and Sir Alex was like, I wouldn't play him.

So that's why I didn't go to my own. So yeah, he kind of got that kind of dead and buried and then yeah.

Inter Milan was a big one, wasn't it?

Yeah, that was probably the biggest. In terms of like my realization where I could go and what I could do, that was my biggest game in terms of, I proved to myself that I can beat the best. Yeah, that was amazing.

I remember you early on, you're a really good runner. Yeah. But if you just said you'd be five Champions League's when you first see you, that was just a massive transformation. Is that the moment, the sort of, the Inter Milan game that sort of like, it just goes like a switch flicks type thing?

Yeah, you naturally progress, especially when you're a youngster and play, there's no like, you can't change playing games. You can train all you want, you can do extra practice. Unless you play games, you're not getting better. Your touch might be a little bit better,

but under pressure, you don't get better unless you play games. And it was just obviously a natural progression, but I then got moved up to left midfield, and then again, you need a couple of those games to like, right, I can do this against anybody. And then, again, another funny story, we were on the coach going to the Milan game away at San Siro, Jermaine Genas,

obviously I think you guys had played England-Brazil and he was like, this right back is just out of this world. He doesn't stop running.

He's a Maicon.

Yeah, Maicon. I'm like, oh.

Your mates really helped you out.

Well, that's the boys. And he was like, oh, and you realize he can't really defend that well. He's a great attacker and fallback, but you run him that way and I can run. So I just kept running at him. And then you soon realize you get in the better of him and you do this, you do that.

And then scoring a hat-trick is, you obviously need a bit of luck with it as well, but then you kind of realize that he just said he's the best right back in the world. I've just kind of destroyed him.

Yeah.

You're just putting the two together.

My confidence has just gone up here. I now think, all right, well I can do this against anybody. And then your ceiling goes a bit higher and then your confidence goes and you just keep growing again.

And it kind of was that, like I said, it was that moment I realized that there was no kind of ceiling anymore.

You always had that talent. Obviously at Southampton, but it's great to see a young kid.

We've seen a lot of kids with lots of talent and they don't kick on.

Yeah.

So these experiences you had, because a lot of clubs were watching you at Southampton

and there was still that doubt, I'm sure, about I was a left back, so you don't really get the publicity, but I remember playing against your Fenderland team. You scored in the last minute.

Yeah, a bit of a... LAUGHTER

That's what I'm getting to really.

I was waiting for one of those on the fly.

You deserved that equaliser, I have to say. You were very good.

But, yeah, it was... Again, everyone has their own path and their own journey. Mine was just slightly different, but again, not everybody's gonna be this born superstar and the expectations are from a kid, you're like this next best thing. But I think in a way it helped me.

I always just thought I'm this kid from Wales that why am I here kind of thing, but always felt I had to prove myself. And I think that probably made me who I am, made the player what I am. And I just was able to just, whatever level I got to, I felt like I had to keep proving myself to everybody.

And even when I got there, I was like, I've still got to keep proving it. So it kind of made me stay at the top a bit longer as well,

I think just having that. And you were playing week in week out, I think that helps. Sometimes a young kid might go to a big club too soon, you're a squad player

you were getting them experiences. So at Southampton I had the choice, not the choice but United came in for me at the time, Tottenham came in for me, United came in with a lower offer, Tottenham came in with more money. I had to turn down United to go to Tottenham before I could just choose. So you said no to United and Aaron Ramsey said no to United.

Yeah.

But the thing is you...

What's up with us?

Well, if I'm... if you're a... what was I? 17 at the time. And I'm looking, right, who's in my position?

Okay.

Am I actually going to play? Do I believe in my own ability? Yes. So if I go to United, probably going to get loaned back. Don't know what's going to happen. If I go to Tottenham, they said I'm going to play

and I feel like at that time I was doing well in the championship and I was ready for the next step. So I trusted my ability to go to Tottenham to play and then I could potentially go to a real Madrid.

What a smart move though. And brave at that time when United won trophies to say, I'm going to go to Tottenham.

How can the club say it? How can Spurs say, you're going to play and then you might go there and just act out of the spirit?

Yeah, no, of course.

And then you're not playing.

But there is that gamble, but I'm ready for it now. I guess you see a lot of kids now, they go straight to a big club and you don't see them again. If you trust in your ability, you need to play. You need to go to a place that you can play. You might have to go back to the championship to play to come back up but you need to play first team football and that's the only way you can get better. Did you meet Sir Alex? I met him when I was a kid.

But not, no, no. I think he actually called my mum, probably tapping up, but he's retired now so it doesn't matter.

Tapping you up for your mum.

LAUGHTER

I hope it was me. But yeah, he spoke to my mum, but we were, again, just wanted to go down the route of playing and trusting my ability and trusting the process of trying to get to the top.

When you say about Southampton, obviously they've had some fantastic players having to come through the youth system. What do you kind of put that down to?

I always say, so when you go as like a YTS, a scholar, you move in with a family or you live in the air or whatever. But we all lived in one big house. So, it was literally like, you look back and I was at the back.

So, players are old-fashioned digs you mean?

Yeah. So, there was 16 of us in one big house. Is that Theo Walcott, Adam Alana? Yeah, Adam Alana, Nathan Dyer, David Goldrick, Leon Best. We had an unbelievable team as well, which obviously helped, but we all used to live in one house. There was a family that looked after us, a cook and cleaner who came in,

and we just had this insane environment where you'd all go in a minibus to training, the songs would be blaring, you'd train together, come home, you'd be playing pool, table tennis, eating together, watching football together.

Brilliant.

Great life itself. Golf? No golf. Not then, not then.

Do they still do that now, Southampton?

No, it's stopped. I think, well, we know the lodges, it's because the husband died of the woman that looked after us. So I think it kind of, they all, I imagine, now are living.

They had that at Forest as well.

It digs for a lot of the young lads, But it definitely, because you don't miss home, you don't get bored, you're constantly doing something, and then you build a closer relationship with the guys you're playing with in the under-18s reserve team. And then, I don't know, you seem like you're just having fun whilst you're getting better, rather than you go back to a digs. It's a weird family, you stay in your room, you probably end up on your phone.

Yeah, social media. But you probably thought, what else are you going to do? You're stuck in a room, you feel awkward, it's another family.

Was it a big thing for you to leave home? I mean it's a big moment obviously for every...

Yeah, I didn't think it was because I used to go down when I was 13, I used to go down once a week and stay overnight there for two years. So they always kind of bled it in. You got to know them well. You got to know the family well and it just wasn't such a big shock. You've always been around the other players because you're going to train with them a couple of times, once a week on a Tuesday.

So I would leave school on a Monday afternoon. I would then get a train up, train Monday evening with my age group in Southampton. I'd stay overnight, train Tuesday in the morning and afternoon with the scholars and then travel back. It doesn't sound so simple that, does it?

It does but it clearly works. The amount of players that came from that kind of generation as well speaks for itself.

Were you always playing left back back then?

I was left midfield. I was always bouncing back and forth from each year group, I think I always started left midfield. Towards the end I went left back and then even when I broke into the first team they actually moved the left midfielder inside so I could have the whole left side to myself.

But you enjoyed that areas to run into more than...

Yeah, because the game's in front of you so you can see everything and then I actually when I got moved to that I feel I didn't really like it because all of a sudden you can't see everything and sometimes there's a player behind you So it's just a different game. So it took me a little bit of time to adjust to that But I always had that attacking threat and I think when I went to Tottenham at the start was just attacking It's probably what we lost so much. But I would leave a massive gap behind because I'd always be attacking. So again Harry made the wise decision of taking most of the defensive responsibilities away

from me and just let me attack which worked out really well.

What's your team at Tottenham when you first go there, sort of under Harry? Because it's a good team, isn't it?

So I was with Martin Yolthurst.

Oh, Martin Yolthurst.

Yeah.

So we had, it was like Ledley King, Dawson, Paul Robinson in goal.

No wonder you lost last time.

I knew you were going to say that.

Don't say that. I'm joking. We had Didier Zecora, Robbie Keane, Berbatov, Defoe. We had a good team. And then it evolves into? And then it evolves into Modric, Combs, van der Vaart, Palacios was always a good team. And then it evolves into... And then it evolves into Modric comes, van der Vaart, Palacios was always a good player for us in that middle, Choluka, Lennon was obviously getting better as well, then Crouch and Defoe and yeah, just good signings.

Did Modric struggle when he first went to Tottenham?

A little bit, just because of the physicality, because he was small, but again, a little bit of an adaption period and then you would...

He was a winger at first, wasn't he?

Yeah, he was always in front of me, because he would come inside and I would go.

Where's he gone?

Oh yeah, and then he stayed in there, because I think it was always like, he's too small to play in the middle but then you give him the ball, brilliant, just drops the shoulder net, you don't need strength.

Talk to us about Tottenham because obviously, I mean, we've just, this last weekend, they're having a very tough time. It's really tough.

Oh, I know.

They're in danger, they're in serious danger and it's been a prolonged, I mean, obviously they won a European trophy last season, period for a long time of a club that's under-delivered to the size of it. Talk to us about that, we had Ants Pasticoglou on a couple of weeks ago and obviously this weekend he got to choose his first game against Arsenal and it was disappointing. What do you make of it? Because obviously you had a decent time there, but why is this club, great club, not able to get over the line and have sustained success?

I would say money. Maybe they don't pay as much as a United. You probably look at the wage bill, it's lower. And I think there's a reason for that. You can attract good players. And I always say now, you buy a £50 million player,

it's not what it used to be. You have to be spending £80, £90, £100 now just to get a good player. So maybe it's the money and the wages, you're not attracting that bigger player who can do a job here and now.

And also they always seem to buy young and hoping they're gonna grow into something bigger, which has worked in the past, for example, with me and a few other players, but they're an established club now. They have the stadium, they have the training ground,

they have the fan base. It's like they need to be buying bigger players, maybe paying a bit more.

But it's amazing they're reluctant to go the extra bit for the wages.

I know the extra bit is still a lot of money.

No, of course.

They've got an amazing stadium, business point of view, fantastic,

but they won't go that extra bit. It's that maybe that bit of a gamble that you maybe need to take that they from a business point Maybe not willing to do. I don't obviously know how they're doing financially, but Yeah, it seems to be that for me that's probably the biggest issue They just don't sign the proven player was like I know my night haven't been doing great but at least they're trying to sign the player that's the finished article or close to and it just seems to be a bit like that. Now that Daniel Levy's gone, so you can't blame him. It's the Lewis, they've got to change the ownership.

It's got to be him, it can't be Levy.

Can't trap that top player, that top level one.

Yeah, but you need an owner who can come in who's got that Abramovich energy. He wants to win on the pitch.

And Tottenham have got everything in place, so that's the manager, that's the owner. I do think what they have done is amazing for the club and what they've built. Because you look at the club now from where it was, new stadium, new training ground, the fan base is bigger than everyone actually realizes. Like, I obviously really get on with them and I obviously get on with them as well as a family

and everybody, but yeah, I think they've just come and taken over now in terms of Daniel's gone, they've taken over. So hopefully, you might see that change. I hope so, but... It's like they just need to gamble maybe a bit. Whereas, I don't know, other clubs

maybe take a bit more of a risk financially,

but then, financial fair play. They'll bong straight back up.

They'll just let that leak. Maybe then financial fear flew. They'd bong straight back up. They'd parachute money, wouldn't they?

Yeah.

The thing is, for the fans' sake, because people keep saying that...

Listen to Rydie.

No, no, no.

For the fans' sake.

Can I say it honestly?

On Sunday on social media, he was ripping your noses in it. He was like, that's it.

I wasn't. No, no, no, I weren't. You were. No, actually, I was in Brazil. What are you talking about? It's a bit of silver. He was filming me. He was filming me watching. I was having a private moment.

That wasn't him.

He doesn't see you as a kid.

Do you know what I mean, I wouldn't want to see Tottenham go down. Of course not. I wouldn't want to see Tottenham go down. But they could. In this moment right now, because what I watched of them the other day, absolutely they could, but I wouldn't like to see it. You know what I mean? My hatred of Tottenham... I've never had hatred of Tottenham. When I was young, I was always Glen Oddo. It's only when I went to Arsenal that just naturally comes in, but I want to see Tottenham go down. That's a guarantee to six points for that.

Whatever you do, yeah.

But as much as they hate Tottenham, they need it for the rivalry for that Premier League. That's the same with...

I didn't mind watching City go down, though, did you?

You had a rivalry with Liverpool, so you're right.

Gareth, when that moment comes when you realise that you've obviously got to a really high level and other clubs are coming in, which clubs come in for you at that time around the point where you go to Real Madrid? Who wants you? Who bids for you?

United and Madrid were the two.

Did you talk to United at that point as well?

I didn't. No, yeah, I did talk to United, yeah. David Moyes?

Yeah. They actually bid more than that. That was the big signing win. So Alex Ferguson left, Edward would famously go back from the tour, I think it's in Australia, to say we're signing Bale and Fabregas.

Obviously for me going, knowing they're not going to sign those, I'm like, well, who are you signing?

And it's like, well, I'm not going to... So you were never going to United?

No. Who did you speak to at the club at the time? I spoke with David Moyes. And with Edward Wood or not? No, I didn't speak to him. Maybe my agent or whatever did. But I spoke with David Moyes. But my heart was set on Madrid anyway. And I had something in place with Daniel Levy, more of a gentleman's agreement just to be like... Because he didn't want to sell me to a rival also.

He didn't want to strengthen another team. So if a team did come in from Spain, Italy, wherever, Germany, wherever it may be that...

He wanted you to go there?

I could potentially go because if we didn't qualify for the Champions League, which we didn't, I was then able to go there. So we had that gentleman's agreement even though he made it very tough.

Do you have any contract that if you didn't get in the Champions League you could leave?

No, but it was a gentleman's agreement, so it was more just that, yeah. But he stayed true to his words.

So financially, was Manchester United offering similar money to Middlesex?

He wanted to go to the grid!

I think we should dig a little bit deeper, because this guy's turned down Man United twice, right? I mean, I need to get to the bottom of that.

It's been alright though, hasn't it?

Well done.

I think I chose the right one from the last 12 years. I didn't go down the wages route with United, I didn't go that far. They offered more money to buy me and a player, but I didn't really get any legs to be honest. So, again, chose wrong. Can we take a shot? No, no, I, chose wrong. Can we put it to bed?

No, no, I'm not sure.

It's great for a player if you know where you want to go. I know the good options. Sometimes people go to four, five, six clubs

but you go, no, I'm going there and that's...

And I have my heart set on it. Once I spoke to them, they reserved the number 11. I spoke with numerous people at the club. I knew Modric the year before who went there, which obviously helped me, knowing that I've got somebody at least I can just be with, I guess. Because you go to a new club, it's like, who's your mate? Was he good like that? Was he good for you?

Yeah, and he was great for me. He's the player I played with most of my career, which is not a bad one.

Yes, yes. Stick to Football is brought to you by Arm Clothing. Wales. So Wales for a long time was sort of the country that couldn't qualify for tournaments and you obviously transformed that really, didn't you?

Yeah, it was a tough time when I first went in. And again, John Toshack did a great job bringing the team, I guess the youngsters in to get us. His always thing was to get us 20, 30, 40 caps. So then we become an experienced team and we're quite young and what we can do. So he took a big gamble and I guess a risk, which started that kind of, I guess, era of Welsh football.

And then it was very amateurly run. Like we would be coming down and eating a bacon sandwich, walking down to training and...

LAUGHTER

Old Bibs.

That was a great lamb roast, what we were getting.

Well, we didn't have a fit side plan as well. Dean Saunders would be taking the warm-ups. Knowing that, like, there was just... Yeah, there wasn't much of a structure. You could then soon realize why we didn't qualify for many tournaments. Then Gary Speed obviously came in and kind of brought that club culture, got the sports

science in, got everything done, new hotel, just everything done properly and just kind of built that foundation where obviously then it grew, obviously the tragedy that happened but it then enabled the next manager and the next managers just to build off it and it then became people wanted to come and play for Wales and we looked forward to going away to Wales rather than like, I'm sure it might have been similar to Ireland. I would have been Garret, absolutely spot on.

And it's like as much as I love playing for my country, and there's no better thing, to go away sometimes, like you come from being at Tottenham and St. Ampton, it's like this amazing, you have everything given to you and provided for you, and you go away to Wales, you're like, it's just not really.

But that was the times back then, and it's something that needed to happen, we needed to grow and we did and yeah, then it kind of built that foundation to make success I guess.

Just talk to us about that in terms of, because Roy's experienced that and obviously famously, because of the standards obviously, you know, it ended up how it did. But what would be the things that with Wales that you were seeing? Because let's be fair, I have to say with England... Jill, maybe not with yourself, obviously, with England in the early days...

The latter days were definitely regarded as a period.

Everything was perfect. There's no England player, for all the failures in tournaments we had, there was no England player could ever, ever say, we didn't get everything put on the plate for us in terms of travel, hotels, food, kit, everything was meticulously brilliant.

The biggest difference from Ireland and Wales, we don't have the funds to give us everything, build us, George's Bar, we don't have that kind of money. We have to actually play well to make money.

But you want to see a bit of progress, don't you?

No, you do, but also when you look back at it, again, we're not the financial people, we don't know, you just don't know if you've got the money to do it, but then you hope the government maybe would help and whatever. But I think for us, clearly, they did have the money because Gary Speed got it out of them and it started something. We built a training ground, which ultimately, we didn't use it.

But then it kind of built something. So he kind of, probably what you were trying to do, Gary Speed did, got the money to at least give us some sort of foundation and give us something similar to what we have at our clubs and that bit of professional.

Sometimes that gives you a bit of spirit though, doesn't it? Yeah. Not quite Gary, but when you look at Wales and Ireland, it gives you like a club feeling.

Yeah.

We were getting everything. We didn't really have that club feeling. Remember, we were in dress rooms at England and French lads. We'd be hearing all that.

We'd be picking up all them vibes.

Private jets.

With Ireland and Wales, you're not looking for perfection, but you want progress. It's not always about money or having equipment. Sometimes that's not billions of pounds.

They had to challenge your fears? We had one size training kit. You should have seen me in my first 16. My t-shirt was down to my arm. It's like a double XL, as long as it fits everybody.

So you were in the same training kit as John Hartson?

Yeah. I'm probably in his training kit. That's why they had to do double XL. But yeah, even just little things like that, It was just one size kit so it would fit at least everybody. Yeah, it was just...

We had that our whole career, mind you. But did you feel a lot of pressure playing for Wales? Because I feel like there was a lot of pressure on your shoulders because they needed you to play well to have any chance of succeeding.

That's the one thing I never felt was the pressure.

Never?

No, I just loved playing for Wales and just loved... And I think the one thing for us, we grew up together, even under 17s, 18s, whatever it is. We kind of... The ones who kind of went to the first team were kind of all playing together through those age groups.

So, you just kind of grew up with everyone. It just, again, and I said about the Euros, you feel like you're with your mates, but you look forward to actually meeting up now. You've got a better kind of... Once all the older guys went and the younger ones all naturally took over, it just became like, I can't wait to meet up with Wales.

This is going to be fun. We'll be away for 10 days. We'll go and play golf one day. We'll be playing table tennis. Paul will just be in each other's rooms. And we, again, created that massive culture.

There was a lot of good support. There were a lot of good players coming through. Even someone like you, Ramsay, to be fair to him, your stats for Wales over a number of years, big goals, big assists, you and Ramsay were like, you were the star people.

You need a couple of people like that. Of course you do. And then we'd have like a good spine. Wayne Hennessey was unbelievable for us in goal. I don't think he gets enough credit, but over 100 caps. To have that goalkeeper that you trust. And we had Ashley Williams. We had Joe Allen, like the heart of midfield.

With me and Rambo, we're a bit more of the flair players and you know we could score and win you a game. And then we'd have players come in, Ben Davis, we'd come in, Chris Gunter always did a great job and we just had like a good spine and the rest would do a great job and there was no ego, we would come, we would turn up even though I was at Real Madrid it was just like it didn't matter if I played for League 2 or Real Madrid it

was like we're all the same. You played 111 games for Wales, scored 41 goals but I mean this statistics here between 2011 and 16 of all the goals Wales scored you either assisted or scored in 65% of them and 2017 to 22, 57% of all goals that Wales scored you either assisted or scored. I mean it's a monumental country. I mean your it's a monumental country. Is it? I mean, your five Champions League's like off the scale,

it doesn't even bear thinking about, but is your greatest achievement what you actually achieve with Wales or would you put the achievements with Real Madrid higher?

It's tough because if you choose one, you're going to annoy someone else.

So, it would be both great.

But they're different in different countries. Do what you did for your country. Yeah, no, 100%. I guess I think we were like 119th in the world when I first signed. We got to 7th, which for a country of what, 3.3 million is like. What we did and what we built and more the friends and the friendship and the character we built was like, again, I didn't feel any pressure because I'm playing with my mates. I know they got my back. I've got their back.

I'll run back just as much as him. He'll run forward just as much as me. And we were just all on the same page. And I think everybody knew that me and Rambo were the ones who could create something. So it was like the team was geared towards us in terms of an attacking sense but we would defend just as much as the others we'd get back in our position because we we're not a Barcelona Real Madrid that's gonna have 60-70% of possession we know probably most games we're gonna have 30 maybe 40 max

possession but we know we have moments and we know we'll take them and we know we'll score and we had the confidence And I think we were so good defensively as a team, we felt, especially in 2016, around that era, just before, just after, that we were watertight. If we were losing a game, it was by one maximum. But we always knew we could nick a game,

nick a result against anybody. You could see that with the Wales team as well, because they see the work that you two are doing, so everybody kicks in, right?

That would lift them, they know they can make us a goal.

And it comes down to ego. You need to leave your ego at the door if you've got one, because you've got to put a shift in. Because if you're that much of an underdog, and we're playing big, big teams like Belgium, who have the talent of Beyond This World, but we're beating them and we're drawing, we never lost a Belgian for a while and we just knew that to be successful,

we all had to do everything together.

You had good experience, you mentioned them players like,

they were, as you said, 50, 60, 70, 80 caps, they knew the game, didn't they?

Yeah, exactly, and I think, again, it started from putting us in early because we had 30, 40 caps, We still weren't a great team But all of a sudden we've got this experience players are doing well in their teams. We actually come together all growing together We understand each other and then all of a sudden we're 23 24 We've all got 50 caps and now we know what to do. We've got a style. We know how to defend We know how to nick a goal. We know how to see a game out, which is for Wales is wild. And then, yeah, it just became that. And then it did slightly change after 2016 because you do so well,

the expectation now is, oh, you're not the underdog anymore. How did you do? We struggled with that a little bit straight after. But then got a bit of experience doing that and got a bit better with that as well. And we then had a bit better with that as well. We got to the semi-final, didn't we? Yeah, in 2016. We'll talk about that in a minute.

Yeah.

I remember you.

To be fair, we play Wales in the group game.

I remember, yeah.

And we score in the last minute.

Daniel Sturridge.

Daniel Sturridge scores. And to be fair, I get carried away.

You went down the line, didn't you? Don't worry, that was the first thing I ever thought about. Did you notice though?

I didn't, I was facing that way but a lot of the coaches, the coaches and everybody.

It was noticed because if you remember there was the famous shot of when Wales were watching England play against Iceland and they're all celebrating and I was talking to you about it before. I mean, it was obviously, you talked to us about that England game, because obviously we won in the last minute. That must have been a big blow for you. And all of a sudden you have to recover, don't you?

And go again.

Yeah, I know. And we had a good result first game against Slovakia, where we won. Which, again, we've gone going there to try and do as best as we can. We had no kind of expectation on us. Obviously we knew you guys were big favourites to win and again it comes to, we probably didn't have a lot of possession, we were just trying to like, how can we nick a goal, free kick, corner, counter attack, whatever it is. And to get to 1-1 in I think it was like the 92nd minute to lose was like a massive devastation, especially to England and then to see you run down the side.

You were over the top as well, weren't you?

It was a scruffy goal as well.

Do you know something, he embarrassed by that though, a little bit. Embarrassed? I'm passionate about my country. I know, exactly. He'd be embarrassed as well. I'm passionate as well. If I look back now, I wouldn't regret celebrating, because I celebrated goals in the last minute always. At United, I would celebrate...

Player, yeah, of course.

Yeah, but even as a coach, in the last minute, you score a goal. But you do look back now and think, obviously, Wales had the last laugh like you wouldn't believe. I mean, because you go on and...

We won that group as well.

Yeah.

Just to let you know. Free kicker? Yeah. Was that Joe Hart? Yeah, Joe Hart. Where did you learn that free kick, Gareth?

The wobbly one, wasn't it?

Yeah, so when I was first at Samurai, I used to do the curling, I got bored with it. So I then just started trying something different. Couple go in and then, yeah, just found it more interesting to do. And then when they went in, they looked better. I probably would have scored more curling wins if I kept going, but I just liked doing it.

Not many people could do it, so it kind of made you a bit unique. Obviously, there was Frank Lampard who could do it, Cristiano. Janinho was the original.

So I was like, I can do it now, can't I?

Janinho at Lyon, wasn't he?

Yeah, at Lyon, Bunker.

He was there. every week. He did one for me halfway line with no wall and it just goes. So you watch that and you're like, oh yeah, spit me that.

Did you practice them after every training? Because we were talking about that one when you were saying about David Beckham, did you practice a lot?

Yeah, I didn't practice as much as maybe, I don't know how much he actually did practice because you practice too much, your quad starts ripping in half. So I would always do a couple after training, maybe like 10, 15, because you do too much, you start fatiguing. Training the next day, you walk around with a broken hip. So yeah, I would always practice them. I just, again, you love shooting,

especially when you're younger. And then as you get a bit older, you start to do it just day before a game, you do like five, six, just to get the feel. Just always just ticking over really, never doing too much where if you're 10, 11, 12... Did Cristiano let you take any of them? It was...

Was that a fine?

It was basically on the left it was him, on the right it was me, and in the middle it was normally him. There was sometimes a little bit of rock, paper, scissors, but it depends what mood he was in. If he'd scored two, he might let me, but...

You have a go.

You talked about, you were surrounded by the biggest club with the biggest ego in terms of Real Madrid, but you've kept so grounded. How have you kept so grounded? Is it coming from your childhood, your parents?

Yeah, I think parents, friends, they'll have the literally same four or five friends. Yeah, same agents, same everything. I've been obviously with my wife for 18 years, so since I was young. So yeah, just, I was never really for all of that. I was just very, I'm very happy just being simple.

I could happily just sit in, watch a film, go to sleep. I don't need to go out and go to a nice restaurant. I don't even have to have nice food. I'm quite happy with just pasta and chicken. I'm just very simple and pleased very easily. What makes you angry?

Missing a forefooter.

LAUGHTER

I can't imagine you being angry. What bugs you? What sort of, like, if there's no chocolate in the fridge or something like that? I can't imagine you being angry. I can't either.

What bugs you? What sort of like, you know, if there's no chocolate in the fridge or something like that.

No, not a lot. My son tests my boundaries at the moment. With what? With seven, but just doesn't listen.

That'll get worse, don't it?

Yeah, I know, I can imagine. But no, not a lot really gets me angry to be honest. I'm quite a chilled person. I'm just… I normally just deal with things as they come. You're quite contented, aren't you?

Yeah.

Just very simple.

Are you one of those players that obviously play at the highest level, you've been there for 15, 20 years, but you don't feel like you know a lot about you?

Yeah, which is ideal. Yeah. No, I like that. You were similar, right? You didn't do many interviews. It was nice.

I just...

It's me I can offer it now, don't worry.

I'll get paid now, though.

But yeah, I was always someone who just... I just liked going to football. I just wanted to be a footballer. I didn't... Also, as a kid, you don't know all the stuff that comes with being a footballer and how famous you get at this. I just wanted to be a footballer and go home.

As simple as that. I wanted to become as good as I could. Make an amazing career for myself, make a living. That's as simple as it is. Obviously everything else that comes with it, you pick and choose what you do. But I'll normally try and get out of most things. Some things you accept that you have to do.

Why did you say yes to this? We're blessed.

Did you try and get out of this?

No, but obviously when you finish you start to do more and again you can't just sit home and do nothing all day. You've got to try different things and tell your story because as you said it's good now, not a lot of people know a lot about me. So I now can come out and talk and maybe people will listen a bit more and get to know me a bit. And yeah, it's just how I am I guess.

You're 36 and obviously every football player knows that their career is gonna come to an end probably early to mid 30s if you're lucky. And you've got that 35, 40 years of your life still to lead, what does that look like? Do you think about the next 35, 40 years in respect of what you're going to do, what you want to do, how are you going to keep that sort of buzz going in your life?

How's your pension topped off?

Haven't you got a golf course in your back garden? I think you might be all right.

No, I think, yeah, I retired early. There's reasons why I retired early.

What are those reasons?

So I actually tore my disc in my back when I was 18 at Tottenham. So that, again, I played my whole career with that. I had a lot of calf injuries, which was due to my back. But again, I never came out and said this when I was playing, because you say some people

always make excuses. Again, I just, I was like, can you say something, but oh, he's making excuses. Again, I just, I don't need to speak, but.

So that didn't even worry you when he was going for an 85 million move to round between the medical?

It was past the medical.

It was past the medical, so it was fine. He knew about it, but it's manageable, but I think for me, over time it caught up with me. I went to see a back specialist, one of the best in the world, and he was like, because where the tear is, is next to a nerve, which I always used to do my right or left soleus. And he basically was like, because if it misfires, because obviously stuff comes out of the nerve, then you go into all scientific stuff. But he said, you're just as likely to tear your

soleus brushing your teeth as you are sprinting. So it's like brushing my teeth on my heels. I'm just kidding. But again, I never knew when it would come. And obviously people are like, oh, he doesn't look after himself. I would literally make sure my calves and soleus were like bulletproof.

They would be the strongest things ever. But again, if it misfires and it goes, there's nothing I could do about it. I'd have an injection on my back to calm it all down. So you go through all these things in your career and it kind of gets to a point where it starts to then go the other way. It's like start to catch up with me. So, and I was always like got to a point

where I guess a lot of people do in their career do you keep going for what reason? What else do I want to achieve? I felt like I achieved everything I wanted to. The last thing I did was qualify for a World Cup, which was the one thing that was last on my list, so I did that. And I was like, I don't really want to just keep going

for the sake of it. And the people always say, do you want football to leave you before you leave football? I was just like, I felt it was the right time. And it was a few years prior that I was probably ready. But then you try and make things stronger and stuff, but it just caught up with me in the end.

And then, yeah, also the thing with my father's illness, I wanted then to be closer to home and stuff was happening with him. So yeah, there's reasons other than just, I just decided to finish at 33. And then yeah, obviously there's a,

I understand there's a long time retired. I've been planning since probably 26, 27, that I know there's not a long career and you have a long life after, hopefully, touch wood. But yeah, just...

What does that look like?

Again, I always said when I retired, I wanted like one, two, three years just to decompress, enjoy the kids, and then try and find a few paths I want to do. Obviously, I think you obviously own a football team, probably understand the stresses with it, but we kind of went and looked down that route. And something that does interest me, we obviously tried with Cardiff last summer. Obviously, it didn't materialise and obviously they're doing amazing again this season.

But yeah, something like that I think interests me more than I don't really like going into management. I feel like I've done that as a player and you've got to put even more hours in as a coach and a manager. So, too much for me. But yeah, kind of that kind of stuff. Pondicherry? Huh? Pondicherry?

Again, I'm doing a bit and I'm enjoying it and growing into it. I was saying to you before that the first couple you don't want to say too much because you're still a bit uncomfortable. You're not used to speaking about players. You were saying give it a couple of years and you'll be abusing players. Hopefully I won't have to get to that. But no, I'm just enjoying trying different things. And I think once I'm sure I'll find something that I love, other than golf, then I can focus on it a bit more, I think.

Gareth, you just signed, you got a partnership with Heineken 00. How's that going?

Yeah, no, great. Obviously, I think it's well documented. I never drank when I was playing, still don't now. So it kind of worked naturally that, yeah, working with Heineken Zero Zero, it's perfect now. Like I can go out with my friends and not feel kind of that. You feel under pressure, left by the wayside.

You don't want to go out because everyone's drinking, you're not. So you can kind of feel you're a bit more involved. Again, I would say the taste is the same, but I don't know the taste of the other ones.

But yeah.

I've tasted both, it is the same.

Yeah, so it's good and again, people now can drink with zero, zero and then drive. So whereas before you couldn't so clearly. So yeah, it's been a natural kind of partnership to work together with and one, yeah, thoroughly enjoyed. You're the first person ever to come on the show that's won five Champions Leagues

and you're the first person that's ever come on that's never had a drink.

I've had one shot.

When was that, when you beat?

No, at my wedding night, at my wedding. So my wife was like, you have to have one. The hips got a bit loose.

Gareth, what do you think of modern football? Because obviously I'm just thinking about you playing at Real Madrid under two incredible managers, Antelotti and Zidane, without a lot of tactics. Do you find the game that you watch sometimes too methodical? Do you find it a little bit more... I mean, some people use the word boring.

I don't think I would use that word, but just generally, how would you see the modern game now?

I feel like it's very manager orientated now and it's more of a chess game than a Just end-to-end kind of football basketball game It's definitely not as exciting as it used to be and again, I could be completely wrong But I just don't feel like there's the caliber of player anymore. Maybe there used to be if you name the players back in history and like Talking like Ronaldinho Ronaldo

Zidane like I just don't feel like there's so many big icon players anymore. I don't know if that's down to managers and tactics and you have to stay on the right wing, you can't move from there, you have to come in here. They're basically, I feel like managers now and I could be wrong, it's just my opinion, but they're basically running the game. Whereas before, like you'll say with Sir Alex,

I'll say with Harry Redknapp, with Angelotti, Zidane, the players played the game. Whereas now I feel like the managers are playing the game. But that's my opinion.

It's interesting you say that because I think that when we say that, and we're probably like in our 50s, 60s, we feel like, is it a little bit like, oh in my day it was different, but you're so close to the game being 50. You're 36, you're not so,

you're saying the same things that we feel at times, but we're a bit scared to say because you think you aren't.

So he's like a dinosaur.

Yeah.

So you say that.

You're not a dinosaur. They love saying that. You say, oh, don't dare say in my day.

The thing is right about the culture, it's probably coached too much. There's not a lot of freedom in players. It's not Mavericks, really. Especially with the attacking players, maybe.

Yeah, sort of. I look, for example, at Grealish. When he was at City, he was like, just stayed out there, I'm like, Avila you were coming in. Guadalupe is an incredible manager and I would never disrespect him, whatever, but that player now doesn't have the freedom to do what he does best,

which is ultimately what got him there. So, that's just kind of, I feel the way that football's going. Again it evolves, generations change, long throw-ins are back in play now so you never know, there's hope for everything.

They're not quite long ones are they?

They're medium ones aren't they? You wait 45 seconds, 50 seconds for a throw-in and it drops about 10 yards. It's a long throw!

I had a bad back. Yeah.

Just about America to finish with, just America. What was that like as an experience?

I loved it and I actually wish I went over a bit younger when I had a bit, I guess, more physical ability. Obviously, I was getting older.

Yeah, I loved it.

I thought it was very different from Madrid. I still remember one of the first games. We lost the game. In my head, I'm like, if you lose in Madrid, it's like right down into a war bunker. This is going to be tough.

We lost in America, and I was like, oh, no. Next, everyone's like happy and fine. I'm like, you're not allowed out in Madrid if you lose. And like, no, it's just, it's accepted. Which, not accepting of it as like you're a loser, but they accept that you're going to lose.

And I guess there's no consequence in America losing. There's no relegation, yeah. So, might be a thing to do with it, but it's a bit more family orientated. The stadiums, it's not like that horrible chanting where they absolutely abuse you. It's just like you're a loser. You're like...

That's really hard.

His fans were hammering me last night.

Everyone was. Every fan laments you. I was a wanker every week.

That was worse last night. And that's'm with you. Oh. I don't know, there's a wanker every week. That was worse last night. That's the home fans.

I enjoyed it over there and it was another experience that I won't describe. We used to go there on holiday always and like just even going to play in like New York and wherever in LA and it was just, it was nice to guess, experience and they go, like night before a game, they'll go out for food. I'm like, normally I have a quick bit of pasta chicken, lock myself in my room, go to sleep early,

but everything's just a bit more laid back. But they're still as professional as anything. Amazing athletes. It's just a shame that there's not maybe the money in the MLS to attract the younger player. I think that's probably the biggest issue with the MLS to try and make it bigger is

you can't get someone in their prime at 25, 26. Unfortunately, it seems to be at the end because the money's not there. If the money's there, you'll attract players.

Is the World Cup going to be... I mean, how big is that World Cup going to be just in terms of establishing the game even more over there?

Yeah, I think it'll be big. I always feel with fans these days, I know a lot of people say that it's going to make soccer, football in America bigger, but a lot of fans these days, I feel like they support a player. Like someone like supporting Bappy, so they'll support, if he goes to PSG, they'll. And I feel like it's a bit like that, it's not necessarily gonna make them support teams,

but it will definitely make the sport bigger there, I just maybe don't think it's gonna have such a big an impact as people say, because they just don't have the finances like an NBA or NFL have to just throw this money and get the best players there, even though I know it's American-based sport.

But if you want to make football bigger in America, you have to make it bigger and more exciting and better. And from where it was when I played preseason years ago, and I'm sure you guys are, to when I played it, there's a massive difference. And it's definitely on a progression.

It's just, yeah, it needs that financial side. And as much as it's horrible to say, it does money talks to every player.

Stick to Football is brought to you by Arm Clothing. Right, final little bit, quickfire questions. Best trainer you've ever played with?

Best trainer, Marjo Trokruis.

Unbelievable in training?

Never lose the ball. Maybe it's not like the flash of scoring loads of goals, but Isco was very good as well actually. Isco was a great trainer. Yeah, one of those three.

Worst trainer?

Hazard.

Hazard?

Probably.

He had a tough time.

He hurt his ankle quite badly in his first season and just never really recovered.

Was he struggling in training? You say worst trainer, do you mean he wasn't… He just…

Again, the Chelsea boys I'll say, I was similar, I didn't love training. I would tick over in training, but I'd want to be ready for the game. I'd want to be 100% ready on a Saturday to give everything.

I wouldn't want to be training hard and feeling like 80% on Saturday. I used to have to have been like that. I felt like I had to literally give everything to be able to tell myself that I was able to play. No, I was the opposite. Well, my last season at Tottenham, I hardly trained. So being an explosive player, you have a lot more doms the next few days.

So I struggled for two days after, and then I would just be introduced back into training slowly. We'd train, for example, harder on a Thursday if you can call it hard. Friday would be like a small sided game and then I'd be ready to go. So I used to like to just fine tune rather than put in the work

and I'd be ready to go. That's kind of how I was like.

That suited you didn't it?

Exactly.

I think the great players could do that though do you know what I think?

But the ones I felt like I was straightened from my position. Every day. I always explain, I've spoken to managers about it. You look at, for example, like the NFL, there's loads of different positions. They don't all train the same. Like you wouldn't train the same as me in a game. Maybe you would train similar to me,

but you should all train how you would play. A center back doesn't need to be doing 100 high intensity sprints, like two days for a game, for example. So there is a power to it, and I think there is, you might see it in the future, where you obviously would train together as a team,

but you don't need to be doing the silly runs if you're a centre-back. You might need to do half of the runs in a wing or in a full-back,

or a striker needs to do to prepare you. I think they do that more now. Like we always used to do the back forward, do different running to the midfield. And the forwards, they'd used to work all together.

We did it together.

I think what players are doing now is that they're finding those guys, those outside PTs who they do stuff with. And then what happens is, is then you get a clash with the people who are at the club. So then they know exactly what's right for you. You try to go to the club and say,

well this is what's right for me. And then the guys who are in the club are disappointed because, oh, he's brought him in. And like, it's just like.

Yeah, you don't want to go too far the other way. It was almost like special teams then. It was also the whole idea of running together

is that you're a team. team does it and it doesn't work, they go back to it. So there's that kind of, you've got to take a bit of a gamble and see it through to see if it does work. But it's tough because you have, you obviously have the, say a PT for example, who's for example mine, just has my best interest, whereas a manager, if I'm 80%, he still wants me out, is where my PT's like, I need a result. So there's that. Jobs underlying, conflict.

So there's that conflict. So that's, I imagine, the most difficult thing to make that work.

Most skilful teammate you've ever played with?

Most skilful teammate... Probably Isco. Yeah, he was... In small-sided games in training, he was... He was a good player when they scanned him. He was a good footballer.

He was a great footballer. On a bigger pitch, he would struggle a bit more, but in training, when it's those small side of games, he was as similar as I've seen to Zidane in terms of the touch and the dragging of the ball. I always saw he was very skillful and a good trainer.

The fastest player you've ever played with? Played with… Has anyone ever outrun you? You've ever thought, God, he's quick?

I played with Kyle Walker. Oh, cool. So, yeah, we had some good training battles.

Would you be quicker than Kyle or would Kyle be quicker than you?

He's… you never really race, do you? So it's like, if you drop a shoulder and he loses balance, you can't say I'm quick as he was quick and I'm not saying I was quick he was quick he would say he is I maybe say my prime I was but he was yeah yeah the quickest player the best play I've ever played with best player ever played with arguably Cristiano yeah the toughest defender you've ever faced who didn't give you a kick I I always say this everyone, I struggled against Micah Richards. I just, he was-

Oh, don't say that.

No, no, no.

How did that fit out?

I know.

That won't make the show.

But I always, it was my earlier days, but I always felt like-

You were 11 at the time.

No, but the thing is, just face it though, Micah, when he knock it on the outside, but he would just put his arm over it. He had a big ass, he had a big arm. I was like, I'm not getting round.

It's even bigger now.

Michael's got to get some logic.

I always found him the most difficult to play against. Well done, Michael. It'll make the cut. Best manager you've ever worked under?

Best manager? Carlo Angelotti, I'd say. Harry was good, I enjoyed… I also love Chris Coleman at Wales. But Carlo in terms of just keeping the peace, man-management, winning with him.

Do you know what I used to like? When you used to win the Champions League and you'd get on the bus, he used to have that massive cigar in his hand. He looked so cool.

He's still a player. He had that relationship where he could still be a player, but then he would have that respect where there was a line. You knew also if you didn't train well, he would hammer you.

Would he hammer you?

Yeah.

All of you, including Cristiano?

Yeah, all of you. For sure. As much as he was your best mate, you knew there was that switch where you're like,

I can't cross that much. And what would that be in terms of in a training session? What would he ever got you for as an example? Just if you were training,

whether you weren't trying or... Sometimes a session just isn we're losing or he would just come out and just

So he had that perfect balance for a manager, okay

Funniest teammate ever played with funniest teammate. I've played with Joe Ledley Just Yeah, no words really described, but yeah, yeah, there words really to describe, but yeah. There's some videos out there, but yeah, extremely funny.

Let's get a video of Jola. Biggest dressing room character, last question, biggest dressing room character that you've ever seen? In terms of funny or? No, character, personality character.

Ramos or Ronaldo, just as a character and how they kind of carry themselves, I would say, yeah, one of those two.

Was he loud in the dressing room? I mean, Cristiano wasn't, to be fair, well, he wasn't when he played at United, but was Ramos very loud in the dressing room?

Yeah, he was always very vocal and spoke in Spanish with a style I had no idea what was going on, but yeah, no, he was always very vocal, was always like the one saying stuff and before you go out doing the team huddle, speaking. Yes, he was very, very captain-like. I imagine similar to leading by example and that kind of warrior on the pitch.

I always ask this question last, best advice you've ever been given?

Best advice I've ever been given? I always find this tough. I always got told that it's easy getting to the top, it's harder to stay there. So I think when I, not saying I got to the top, but got to my stage.

I think you got more to the top.

Again, just having that work ethic to stay there, because the reason you got there is for that work ethic, why would you stop doing it? So I think that's probably the best of them.

Nice one. Gareth, amazing to have you on, thank you so much. Thanks, Dallas, thank you.

Thanks, Gareth.

All good.

Nice, thank you.

Brilliant, good stuff.

Thank you, appreciate it. You're not going to have to go far with that. Thank you very much, cheers.

No, it was good. It was good. Yeah, I remember that goal last minute against Sunderland. The worst thing, we played Ireland, you were assistant as well, and I always remember you stood there and I'd just come back from injury and you'd said something in the press before, and I was like, shit myself, running to the side of the floor,

you could fucking kick me.

No, no, Jesus. No, no, Jesus. There'll be some good games at Wales.