“Gay for the Stay” & “Trains Run on Her”: Inside Mackenzie’s Prison Dating Life

Some of the best advice you'll hear in life is sometimes the most simple advice.Don't go to prison.But apparently, not all advice is worth taking and sometimes, or like all the time, it's completely unavoidable at that point.But if you are to end up in a prison, the Ohio Reformatory for Women in Marysville, Ohio is probably one of the better options.One reporter who's been inside, she says it's more like a college campus.And instead of housing students, there's dorm rooms with women that are classified by their charges.

You've got units, they call them cottages.They don't even call it units.Cottages for the four lifers.They're in there for life.You've got cottages for the people that are coming in and out.They've got a lot of programs in the reformatory that I have honestly not seen being offered at other prisons or even at like your local community college.

Communication and conflict resolution are only part of this 10 -month transformative program.Horizon graduates leave the reformatory with not only housing, but often employment as well.You can get your GED, yes, but you can also take lessons on how to properly raise your child.You can help train service dogs.

One former resident, Kat, she says... a softball field, a gym, you've got school, there's a lot of buildings and you've got a lot of free reign to kind of go and do.If you're not doing that, you just go walk the tracks, sit on the yard, there's like tables, or you're watching TV on your bunk, you're on the phone doing video visits.

crazy wow it sounds like a summer camp yeah and the reformatory they offer three different yard time slots in a singular day so you've got the first second and third yard and this is a lot like most people they'll maybe get yard time once a day and that's if they're really lucky they have three yard time slots one's really early in the morningthe second is in the middle of the day, then there's one at the very end of the day.Interestingly, it's not even as bad as PE class in high school because you can't opt out of that.You can technically opt out of yard time, in the reformatory if it's too hot if it's too cold or for whatever reason you just don't want to be outside you can opt to stay in your room a lot of people will stay in their rooms because they don't like the weather outside there's no point in going out because when you come back in there's no ac in the building so everybody's sweating they say it does get really bad in the summers like you'll stick to your bed in the summertime but you can buy fans in the commissary But it's not hot now for some people though.It doesn't matter the weather They're going out for yard time because yard time is game time Residents remember there will always be a few girls out at yard time who've got full face of makeup on they've got gems in their hair Each gem is like $15.You have to buy it.

They have curled hair.You can get a curling iron They look like they're going to the club just walking around yard time.It's like walking around Rodeo Drive Just walk and walk it Yard time is also, however, one of the few times throughout the day that inmates can be in the sun.So I get it, right?I mean, get fresh air.It's also hugely psychologically beneficial.

Plus, yard time serves as the main flow of information between cottages.This is very likely the place where people start whispering about people they've met inside, who just came into their cottage, or sometimes they're whispering about the show that they just saw.Because there's TVs in the common areas.And there was this show that was playing on there.It's like one of those investigation discovery shows about a true crime case.And they said one episode was detailing how 17 -year -old Mackenzie Sherrilla drove a car into a building at nearly 100 miles per hour, killing her boyfriend Dom and their friend Davion.

You know, that case.who also happens to be their fellow inmate.one that's walking around looking like she's going bar hopping with a full face of makeup at yard time every single day That one killed two people and now one former inmate says, you know, she's actually in the bathroom getting trains run on her What?This is everything that has happened since Mackenzie Sharilla was imprisoned.Inmates have come out to talk about her dating life, what she's been doing, and if she's showing any remorse.And this is going to be a full update on some of her released jail calls, as well as her new appeal.

We would like to thank today's sponsors who have made it possible for Rotten Mango to support Change the Game for Dom Foundation and Davion Flanagan's Memorial Scholarship Fund.Both GoFundMes are run by the families of the victims, and we're going to include those, plus all the information regarding Dom and Davion's law, which aims to update Ohio's son of Sam laws in order to prevent violent offenders from profiting off their crimes.It's going to be so pertinent.In this episode, you're going to see why they want this to be introduced.All of these are going to be included in our show notes.This episode's partnerships have also made it possible to support Rotten Mango's team of dedicated researchers.

We'd also like to thank our listeners for your continued support.As always, full show notes are available at rottenminglepodcast .com.Today's episode involves mentions of illicit drug usage, reckless driving, driving while intoxicated, self -exit, and possible domestic violence and trafficking, as well as heavy discussions of being in prison, as well as things that could occur in various prisons throughout the country.We did pull the FOIA for this case and we went through tens of thousands of pages of text messages, detective incident reports, autopsy reports.We also received like

90 jail phone calls that I mean, it was like 20 hours collectively.There's just a lot going on.So we're going to try to break it down.This is actually part four of the five part series.So in part one, we went over the crash itself and generally what people believe happened that night.In part two, we break down the Netflix documentary as well as we interviewed Rosie and Bubba and asked them a lot of questions that social media had.

In part three, we broke down the relationship as well as covering internet rumors, conspiracy theories that people have about Mackenzie's relationship with her parents, and whether or not people believe that it played a role in all of this.In this part, we're gonna cover the jail calls, the alleged prison girlfriends, the trial, the appeal, and in part 5, we're gonna break down the entire 31 ,000 page document of text messages between Mackenzie and Dom.So with that being said, let's get into it.I went down the rabbit hole of figuring out whether or not Women's Prisons really is similar to Orange is the New Black TV show.Because that is what everyone kept saying, like, is it similar?Some people on Reddit say it is, except the smell.

Quote, it was an odd combo of BO, hot dog grease, and really strong cleaning chemicals.Beyond the smell, the best way to describe it would be like living in a subway station in that everything has that grimy feeling of having been touched by thousands of people.One person says, it's kind of like that plus lots of hooking up in the bathroom stalls and showers.I mean something really weird was every few days they would pass around electric shavers.There was one for each bunk and there would be a line of girls trying to use these old shavers to dry shave their legs and pubes in the bathroom.Some of them would flip them and use the non -cutting side as a pleasure object on other people.

It was so f***ing gross.I never even considered shaving.Another person on the internet says, the food is the worst part.One inmate says that they were cleaning the meat grinder in the kitchen because that was their job and quote, as they opened it, they found about a million pieces.inside.Basically it hadn't been cleaned a lot longer than people thought and the whole prison had been eating maggot meat.

So, and there's just lots of reports that there's actually a lot of intimacy going on in women's prisons.I'm not sure exactly the word to be used here, whether it be intimacy or not, but one netizen says that one of the very first things that they learned was how to make a prison rose toy that is stationary.So it doesn't, Pulsate, but it's a pleasure object.You get used toilet paper rolls, like the empty part, the little cardboard roll at the end.Saran wrap, napkins, and rubber bands, and you can make a pleasure object.They said it was oddly, you know, more intimate than they expected with, quote, gay for the stay being a widely used term.

Yeah.Others know they say that it's not as dangerous per se as men's units where the prison hierarchy is gang and race based Whereas the women units are well one netizen writes ton of drama and sex The drama in the men's unit is usually at a zero or a ten Nothing ever in the middle.The women's unit is a constant six always.They say, quote, the bitches walked around like they were in a high school dorm.

Women's prison is like a popularity thing.So it's really like being in high school.And Mackenzie was kind of popular in prison because she had to be there in a long for a long time.

She is popular.

Yeah.Kat says.So like people who are serving life sentences have like an unspoken level of respect.Like we people are just coming in and getting out.

We're like, renting an airbnb and they're the homeowners like landlord you know what i mean so but even then kat says that ohio reformatory at least when she was there there were still people who stood out like they just did so much and mckenzie was that mckenzie had this one

friend in prison and Kat says the two of them would walk around the yard full glam And that was for my photo ID and then we had some Like festival sunflower festival come into the prison and there was like music and stuff So it was like so I was like, okay, we'll do it for then but every single day No, that's the last thing on my mind.

So they have make regular makeup.Yeah.

Yeah Another former resident Cheyenne says I would see girls do makeup just not to the extent that Kenzie took it like maybe do a little eyeshadow maybe a little lip liner and or something like that, but Mackenzie was like full face done going to the club, like makeup, walking around.She not coming out without her hair done.Like she woke up at six in the morning to get her hair ready, makeup ready and stuff like that.I remember she told me, cause she always wanted me to meet her on first yard.And it was at like seven, eight in the morning.And she's like, I'll be up by six doing all this.

Cheyenne has since come out on TikTok to talk about all of this.And she even posted a picture stating, I'm going to show you guys what she looks like most of the time.So this is what I mean by that.And she inserts a picture of Mackenzie in prison.

Like, what kind of photo?A selfie.

A selfie of Mackenzie Shurila in prison.

By herself?

Yes.Now, people are like, oh my god, did she stick a phone up her butt?Like, did she pay a CO, like a correctional officer, to get this phone?They have these tablets.that they do video calls on and you can actually send pictures to your loved one so you can take pictures like yeah oh my god that's yeah yeah yeah and so cheyenne is like i'm gonna show you what she looks like and the picture for my audio listeners is a picture of mckenzie one that has been widely circulating nowand she's just posing with the camera.

And I will say that she has more makeup on than I think I have on right now.So it's definitely, and that's not to be like, oh, I don't even wear makeup.No, I wear a lot of makeup.Like she's wearing a lot of makeup.It's definitely not just, let me throw on some eyebrows and curl my lashes and call it a day.This is the type of makeup that I would do if I'm going to like a birthday dinner.

This is not just, I gotta go to the grocery store and run some errands.

Wear makeup, like full beat, full face, full everything, every single day.

In prison, or at least this prison, you can also buy exclusive clothing.And apparently a Nike hoodie could go for like three, four hundred dollars because it's prison.They're not going to make it affordable.And Cheyenne says that Mackenzie had everything she wanted.

They never had a TV.

Cheyenne says you pay $15 each for one of those gems in her hair and in the picture that Cheyenne It's literally like when you're five years old and you throw a giant bedazzled gem okay you can actually like it's actually cute as an adult too but it's just not worth 15 a piece and she has a lot of those she's in that picture she's like four that is so what yeah and these are things they sell in the prison I think some of them you have to get from other cottages.Like for example, the waist trainer.Cheyenne is like, I don't know how she got the waist trainer, but Cheyenne speculates that it's from the pregnancy cottage.So they have a cottage for all the pregnant women and they might give you waist trainers or you can maybe purchase them.And so she's thinking because it's from the pregnancy cottage, it's probably going to cost Mackenzie like a hundred dollars.hundred and fifty dollars for a very basic waist trainer Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, and so basically the parents are funding her endings, right?

Yes Wow She's wearing all of that.And according to Cheyenne, Mackenzie is doing line dancing every night.She's going to go learn dancing every night.And she's just in one of the best cottages of the facility.

So I asked her what cottage she lived in.She's like Wheeler.That's crazy.Like Wheeler has like flat screens, couch, actual couches, rooms that you can close your door because it was like an open prison.So you just had bunks everywhere, like little cubicles of bunks.

open like anybody could walk in there but wheeler wasn't like that other cottages it's just like bunks out in the open yeah wheeler it's like a dorm you can close the door to your room yeah yeah but how does she end up there is it just by luck by chance usually it's for the for lifers Kat says the widely circulating comparison online about Mackenzie is pretty accurate.

famous or photographed she would wear her clothes altered so they would be form -fitting and she would make fun of people who had less than she did because she was well taken care of inside prison.Her mom was super like kind of made it like a Cupcake camp for her in there like very cushiony.She had everything like that.

We could have in more in prison Yeah, they said that Mackenzie would go behind people who are Bigger in size than her and like mock them about their size by doing hand gestures like this behind them in the yard But one of the more enlightening things to come out of all of this is stories of Mackenzie in prison That she has quote gone gay for the stay and has been having trains run on her all the timethe bathroom.That's the exact verbiage that people have been using.I'm actually not even entirely sure what that means.I mean, I am to some degree familiar with what it means to have a train run on somebody, but I'm not sure in this context, in the prison context.Cheyenne says there's just so much dating drama inside of Ohio Reformatory.

Girls always have a new girlfriend in there like every other day.Somebody was somebody's ex every day.This girl was talking to this girl every day It's just how it goes down in there because it's boring.

You don't have anything to do in there So you just fill your time with anything honestly, which is kind of how Cheyenne starts dating Mackenzie Okay, or at least that's what Cheyenne says.Now to fully understand this, let me break it down.According to internet rumors and former inmates who have come out to talk about knowing Mackenzie in prison, which, you know, side note, many of them actually have been coming out before the Netflix documentary to share their story.So it doesn't seem like these people are just coming out now because the case has gone viral again and wanting to get TikTok famous.They've been talking about it for a while.

Mackenzie.

Yeah, so to break it down according to Cheyenne Mackenzie has this best best friend in prison named Jasmine These are the two that walk the yard gems in their hair full makeup her and Jasmine.Okay, Jasmine It did a lot for Mackenzie.Apparently Mackenzie was allegedly making hooch alcohol in prison, and a CO came in, found it, Jasmine took the fall because Mackenzie had an appeal coming up, so Jasmine wanted to take the fall for it.Anyway, Mackenzie is besties with Jasmine.Jasmine is dating another inmate by the name of Juice, who has also come out and has started making videos about this.So Jasmine and Juice are dating.

And Juice is really close friends with Cheyenne.And near the end of Cheyenne's stay, Juice comes up to her and is like, hey, Mackenzie thought you were cute since you first popped out.She already has like a little nickname for you.She calls you Fro.So Cheyenne was like, when I was in prison, I had this huge crush on you.you know, there's not like, you can't really get your hair done, right?

And Cheyenne's like, I'm like, all right, bet.And she was like, well, Mackenzie said she wanted you to meet her on the next yard.So Juice is like, Cheyenne, Mackenzie thinks you're cute, wants to meet you at the yard.She's got a nickname for you.She calls you Fro.Cheyenne says she never really felt inclined to talk to Mackenzie ever because she just gives off full Regina George vibes, just mean girl radiating off of her.

But now she's intrigued.She's also, she admits, bored out of her freaking mind.Just like losing her mind going bonkers in there.Okay, so this is like the most exciting thing that could happen.

says to me is you're top three on my hottest people on the farm list.

I guess she calls it the farm.Apparently they hit it off.Okay.Cheyenne is asking Mackenzie if they want to grab dinner, which sounds like, I mean, clearly it's rough in there.Like Cheyenne and Kat have come out to say like, it does get rough in there.Like they're making it sound like a walk in the park, but it's really depressing.

It's really rough.Like you lose sense of agency.I get it.But also like, it's not as rough as one might imagine.Like I watched Prison Break and like, do you want to grab dinner?It doesn't really resonate with Prison Break.

Do you get what I'm saying?Do I think prisons need to be tougher?No, I'm actually for prison reform.Anyway, Mackenzie is looking at Cheyenne like she's crazy.

And she's like, no, I don't eat the prison food.I would never eat the prison food.And I was like, oh, OK.And she's like, yeah, I cook every single day, like every single day I cook.Mackenzie cooks?

Yeah, Cheyenne says.Yeah, exactly.Cheyenne's like thinking about it.and she's going through it and she's like, that's actually a lot of money.Okay.

So Cheyenne's breaking it down and she says, quote, everything's cheap in prison, but you have to buy every single thing to make it a meal.Like say, if you want to buy a pizza, you got to buy.wraps to make the crust, you gotta make pepperonis, you gotta buy pizza sauce, you gotta buy cheese, you gotta buy a shredder for the cheese.So like cooking every single day with your commissary like would mean a lot because you only get a certain amount of commissary in there for like a certain time period.So cooking every day you'd probably run out within like three, four days.But that's like a lot to do, especially every day, because like I said, you can cook it in a microwave.

So you have to make everything separately.You have to get a microwave spot, which is like, like I said, 200 girls and like one cottage.And there's only two microwaves.So you have to get a spot like every day, go out there, prep for that spot, be ready.If you run out of time, you're out of that microwave.You can't finish the food.

So you really have to be prepared for it.So it's really a lot.

Anyway, the two of them start talking, flirting.OK, and When they would hang out, Cheyenne says she noticed a few things about Mackenzie that she's now sharing.One is that Mackenzie kind of seemed amused at the idea that some people call her Shavilla the killer.

So, okay, back to your intro.You're saying that everyone saw this documentary in the prison?

They saw an ID investigation discovery episode.

Oh, yeah.

So they say it's kind of interesting because when you first meet someone in prison, you ask them for their charges, right?And then they like, and do I think this happens?Absolutely.I think the criminal justice system in America is completely forked.But everyone in prison is innocent, you know, most of the time, right?Everyone is innocent.

And so what happens, Cheyenne was explaining that you learn about someone's charges.And then if you want to befriend them, you go and you call your mom and you're like, you got to Google this person.and see if their charges match up to what's happening, right?So people know thathave a vague idea of Mackenzie Shurila's crimes, and they probably hear her side of the story of like, oh my god, it was POTS, whatever she says.And then they see Investigation Discovery on the show, and they're like, wait.

What?That's Sharilla the Killer.

Yeah.Mm hmm.Yeah.

Interesting.

And Mackenzie doesn't hate the nickname.Mackenzie apparently told Cheyenne just like deadpan, not even offended.Yeah.People call me Sharilla the Killer.like what?and it seems like mckenzie really really believes she's going home sooner rather than later because cheyenne says she told me how she was working on an appeal she's going home like she's gonna be home i mean her we're gonna talk when we got home we're gonna continue this outside when she came when she got home So she's getting life without parole with uh, Cheyenne or Mackenzie Mackenzie 15 years She's eligible for parole in 15 years But most likely it's going to be highly highly unlikely that she's going to get parole in 15 years.

Okay based on Based on like typically if you're in 15 to life, it's really hard to get parole, especially for killing people.And then it seems from what I know and from what I've heard that Dom and Davion's family members are going to be there at every single parole hearing.And they will take that into account.Also, on top of that, she has like 36 misconduct records in prison right now.And that also gets factored into parole.

36?Yeah.Are you going to talk about?

Yeah, but most of it is like not being in her room, like being in the wrong rooms, wrong areas, right?Because Cheyenne kind of insinuates that's what happens when you're dating people.And then also just having contraband.And most of the contraband is like altered clothing, shoes that she's not supposed to have.Yeah.

Fascinating.Wow.Yeah.36 is pretty wild.

That's a lot.

She's been there for how many years?

that's like one a month yeah cheyenne says in a tiktok and then she was showing me her scars and she wanted me to like touch them and i kid y 'all not no bullcrap when i touch them a chill literally ran through my body like my hair stood up back of my neck arms everything it just i don't know something felt weird and off so i kind of like pull my hand back a little bit and she's like what what's wrong you don't think i'm pretty with all my scars is it nasty to you do i look disgusting i'm like no it's just kind of like chilling and shocking seeing all this that mckenzie looked me dead in my eyes y 'all dead in my eyes and said thank god nothing happened to my face because i still want to be a model when i get out of here another interesting fact with this is juice remember juice cheyenne's friend dating jasmine juice says in a tiktok her mom literally still goes out and buys everything and anything that kenzie would like that way when she gets out one day she'll go home and come home to a whole bunch of stuff yeah apparently her mom goes out and buys stuff and like puts it in her room This is unbelievable.

And this seems to be a very consistent thing people have been saying, that Mackenzie acts like she's getting out soon.

Kat says, Mackenzie walked around like she was going to get out soon.Like, she had no worries.I'm sorry if I just got a life sentence, girl, I'm stressed.Nope, couldn't tell.Walked around with her head held high, would cut her little crop tops, would walk around with hickeys on her neck, because that's just what girls do.They get in there and go gay for the day, whatever.

living in a fantasy world like still striving to be that it girl in prison that got her to be in this position in the first place like influencer all that but like baby girl all those days are gone i told you she walked around like she always like she was getting out well it is what it is like it's fucked up but she did not walk around remorsefullyshe walked around like she was still in the free world or like still in high school and she was a mean girl like you could see she looked down on other people like laughed at people would talk about people which at the end of the day no one really in there gave a fuck because we're looking at her like you're laughing and looking down at people but you're gonna be in here for the rest of your life and we're getting out and going home like I said happy -go -lucky like didn't even seem like She realized she was sitting in prison.

But she is sitting in prison.She is.Which is exactly why we have so many jail calls.At the beginning of each call, it says in an automated tone, this call is not private.

It will be recorded and may be monitored.If you believe this should be a private call, please hang up and follow facility instructions to register this number as a private number to accept charges.And thank you for using Seqirus.You may start the conversation now.

Also, you can't just, like, get private phone calls.Typically, that's reserved for attorney -client privilege.So it's not like, oh, I just feel like this should be private.No, it's not going to be.There's a lot of normal conversations that you would expect from someone in jail.Mackenzie is telling her mom all the things she's been doing.

She's been making oatmeal in her room.Just order it.She says she's reading all the Harry Potter books and all she does is eat.There's not really much else to do.Her literary review of the first book in the Harry Potter series is quote, good as fuck.

I don't know.I'm not even going to sleep for now.And I'm almost done with this book.It's getting good as fuck.I want to keep reading it so bad, but like, I have to wait.She says, and it's crazy because I remember being in elementary school and being like, damn, these Harry Potter books are big as fuck.

Like, who would want to read them?

Oh, and her hair is getting softer.She says it smells good now.She says the showers are so foul and she had this moment, she said, where she dropped the soap.And I like looked around they start talking about how people are so weird about being naked here in the US But in Italy, it's fine, which makes McKenzie announced her mom that she wants to live in Italy.Yeah, okay Okay, what the mom says mom is like, yeah, it's like when I mean, I want to live in Italy.What do you mean?

I want to live in Italy Right in another call McKenzie says she doesn't want to shower because quote because like you and little I don't want them to see me Which somehow segues to Natalie asking about Mackenzie's butt.And Mackenzie informs her, "'Oh my God, they're going away.'" I don't know what's going away.

"-How's your butt? -"Oh my God, they're going away.But I have a pimple, like, right on my bone, my butt bone.

" So just, like, lots of very casual conversations. In another call, she's talking about how long her hair is getting. She says, "-My hair's so long, I could braid it if I wanted to." You should braid it.This is Natalie's tone for everything.Oh yeah, you should braid it.Oh yeah, you should eat.Oh, that's good.

Yeah, you should braid it.

I'm not talking about my hair on my head.Oh.I'm talking about my leg and my coochie and my armpits actually, but I'm mainly talking about my legs.

Right.And it's so weird.I mean, even if that is what's happening, I just can't imagine telling my mom that my hair down there is getting so long I could braid it.It's an odd conversation.In another call, she mentions how she's scared to shower because...There is a lot of that.

however, in these calls where it just feels like Mackenzie and Natalie, and a lot of these conversations, most of them are with Natalie, it feels like they're out of touch with reality and what the, they can't grasp what the reality of their situation is.There's one moment where Mackenzie and her mom are talking about a friend of Mackenzie's and Mackenzie says, oh my God, why would she go to jail again?What is wrong with her?She's bad as fuck, like badass little kid.

She named me as a friend.I'll keep her out of jail.Yep.

What is happening?This is a recorded phone call from jail.How can you keep her out of jail?You're on trial for murder.She says she wants to start a business when she gets out and says, she also talks about how someone in jail is allergic to lash glue, just like her.And she found this hack of using wig glue.

And Mackenzie is like, when I get out and I go home and I do my own lashes, I'm going to use wig glue.She has a lot of hopes of getting out.She says to a friend, yeah, when I go home, I think I'm going to get a job, which like, Ooh, okay.Probably should.

Yeah, I want to be like either a social media manager or I'm going to be like a life coach or I'm going to keep going to school to be a nutritionist.And like, I want to help people eat healthy.When I get out of here, I'm going back to eating healthy, though.

But I don't know if Mackenzie knows much about eating healthy.In one phone call, her mom is making a smoothie with baby spinach.

And Mackenzie says, well, it's baby spinach, so it's bad for you.

Wait, why?

Because it's a baby.What the fuck?Baby spinach.

It's young, tiny spinach.

Yes, it's genetically modified.

But it's organic.

Which, side note, this is not true.Baby spinach is not genetically modified.But Mackenzie continues arguing.

Organic doesn't always mean good, though.

You have to know.Non -GMO.No, non -GMO.It's not.

Yes, it is. I don't believe that.That's a lie.

In another phone call with her mom, she says, when I go home, this is my plan.

So first, I'm obviously like, I'm staying with you guys as long as possible.But while I stay with you guys, I'm going to start saving up money.And I'm going to try to move out of Strongville.I want to move somewhere with a lot of land.And I'm going to rent a little house.But I'm going to make it real.

Of course you are.This would be super cute.

I don't want a big house.I want like a little house with a knife on the inside.So I could have a lot of nice things, but I don't want a big ass house.

She says, do you know what I kind of want to do when I go home?I want to do a DNA test.But then I don't want the government to have my DNA.Girl, the government has your freedom.I think you kind of have to eat the frog on this one.Like you've got bigger fish to fry, your house is on fire, and you're talking about saving the curtains.

Nevertheless, she continues.

You are on a list.

You're on a pretty detailed list of incarcerated individuals.The government seems very familiar with Mackenzie, even If we're just judging by the FOIA file, the government gave me extensive information about you.I think they know who you are.I think they know what you're doing.I think they know where you are, what you eat, what you read.They know to some degree what you're even talking about on the phone.

And while I do agree the government is not to be trusted with their increasing oversight on their citizens, you're literally incarcerated.I don't know why this logic annoys me so much.In one jail call, this is while Mackenzie is on trial for murder.So like the trial is happening and she's having these phone calls.And Mackenzie is giggling to her mom about a message that one of her friends sent.So Mackenzie's trial was not live -streamed.

It was a bench trial.It lasted about approximately eight days.And there were parts of it that were recorded, but it was not like fully live -streamed from start to finish.

And she's reading the message and she says, I can't even tell you like everyone always tell me my butt fat as fuck and like my butt was cute and little before but now it's fat and cute.

In another conversation, Natalie mentions there's going to be a podcast about this case tonight on somebody's, you know, thing.Kenzie, it's insane.

What do you mean?It's going to be on what?

It's insane.Somebody's going to be talking about it on their podcast.Everybody's just looking for their five minutes of fame.How many likes can they get?

I think that's why this is so popular because it's a mystery.

But it's not.It is.You know what I mean?Natalie keeps encouraging Mackenzie, write your book, start writing your book.You start writing your book, OK?

Write your book.Start writing your book.You hear what I'm saying?

In that same exact conversation, Mackenzie asks her mom, how do you spell eventually?And her mom stops halfway.She's like E V E. And then she's like, hold on, I got to type it out.Maybe neither of them should ever write books.Maybe they should read a book first.But it appears, if not books, maybe modeling.

Mackenzie says, I have this feeling that something's gonna happen with all these people reaching out.So she's getting a lot of weird guys reaching out and producers reaching out.Producers probably trying to get her for a documentary.And then guys probably lying, saying they're producers just to get in contact with her.But there are a lot of people who reach out to inmates that they deem pretty.Creepy guys.

But she is like, This must mean something like you remember that one guy who got arrested for murder And he became like a model because he was just like everyone was like loving his mugshot.

So she thinks something's gonna happenand natalie is like yeah and these men you know these people are paying money to talk to you because you have to buy stamps to send letters and mckenzie says as they should what is happening yeah but natalie yeah no i was losing my mind there were so many times he was like are you okay babe the mom and mckenzie both are kikiing over yes hypothetical imaginary scenarios that will never happen and they're kikiing over it and it's like and then giving the context of what's going on this is not real for the mom to say no these men are paying money to talk to you what yeah natalie keeps encouraging mckenzie to write her book because quote start writing your book Nobody can, like, twist or use things, your feelings that you say in a weird way to fit their growth narrative kind of thing.In another call, Mackenzie is ranting.Yeah, that shit is just irritating as fuck.

They're acting like I killed, like, 85 people.Like, I didn't kill nobody.

And while all this is happening, Natalie encourages her, save the world.

While you're there, go to school, right?Do what you gotta do.You know, maybe you should go into frickin' law school and fix the system.Because what the fuck is this?

I don't want to do math and stuff like that, though.

I don't think that that's involved with.

I would, but like, I don't know if I want to, like, take the time to do it because it's like a lot of work.

But you have time, right?And you are an amazing arguer.You know what I mean?Because you are based on facts.And you tell people what it is, and you don't stop.People need that.

Think of how you defend people that have been wronged, Kenzie.They need you.

But one particular jail call that has been going viral is of Natalie telling Mackenzie, Kenzie, it's on the Today Show.What?

Girl, I'm telling you, they're about to get ready for the biggest plot twist of the century, right?What did they say about me?

twist?Yeah.Yeah.They're giggling.Yeah.

I was gonna do this anyway, so this is great.

And they could just reach out to us.

Mm -hmm.

Mackenzie then relays this information to a friend.Okay, she's relaying the good news.

My mom was like, well, maybe Kim Kardashian's seen.And I was like, I hope.Yeah, maybe Kim will now that it's like all over.

I was like, I mean, that's the only thing that might be good about the whole media thing.Maybe Kim will see it.So this is an undated jail call, but I have an inkling it feels like it could be around the Netflix time.Because they do talk about this being in the news during the trial and very early on in this case and Mackenzie was very stressed She didn't like it being on the news And then with Natalie even saying like this is what I was going to do anyway And maybe Kim Kardashian will reach out it seems likewith Netflix, their whole intention was like, we're going to get some sort of appeal, we're going to get people riled up for injustice.Like, I think that's how they saw it themselves.

I don't know for sure.But that's the feeling that I get.And so maybe they think the news, the attention is great, because now people will finally see the injustice and oh my gosh, the crime of putting her in jail, prison.

Yeah.

And so the friend says, I mean, that's the only thing that might be good about the whole media thing.Maybe Kim will see it.So it doesn't it doesn't sound like it was around the same time frame as the trial when they are talking about these media calls and they don't like it.So that's.But I don't know.It's undated.

Right.But Mackenzie.Yes.

Why are they so excited that Kim's going to see it?

Because Kim likes to fight for people who were wrongly convicted.

Like she'll fight for people who are on death row that You're saying that Kim's gonna repost this and say, free McKenzie.

Yeah, and it'll start a little movement and there will be like a change .org and then maybe she will get out, right?

I don't know.You have to figure out because I'm real nervous and I want Kim Kardashian to be my lawyer.

Kim Kardashian passed the baby bar.Which I don't think is true at all.I don't think she passed the baby bar yet.She has been trying to pass the baby bar.The baby bar is notoriously hard to pass, right?But she's a lawyer.

Also, I don't think she didn't pass.

I don't think she did.Yeah.I know she's failed a few times, which is not like shading or shaming someone because the baby bar is that hard.Yeah.Right.But she also has like a completely other career that she's very busy with.

So I don't know.Right.But I don't think she's a lawyer yet.Yeah.She's a lawyer.

She gets innocent people out of jail.

And I do want to clarify.I do think that Kim Kardashian advocating for people who are on death row that are innocent of their crimes is probably one of the best things that she's ever done.So this is not me saying like, oh, she's not a lawyer yet.Like, it's actually very difficult to pass the baby bar.But I'm just saying factually, I don't think it's correct.Anyway, the friend is like.

She does all the time.Kim works hard.She is.Kimberly, we're gonna have her get you out.And I will tell her I buy all her skins and I only wear skins.

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You have to throw a dinner party.And your life depends on this dinner party, okay?I tell you, if nobody shows up to your dinner party, you are screwed.And you can either invite group A or group B. Group A consists of 12 people.12 strangers.You don't know them.

but just one person has to show up to your dinner party, that's it, okay?Do you invite group A with 12 people or group B?Group B consists of just one person, so you got one shot versus group A, you have 12 shots.The question almost sounds dumb because it is and I just be making up questions, but it's very obvious, you choose group A. You invite the 12 strangers and hope that at least just one of them shows up.Now what if I said I started a rumor?I went in there and I told group A, the group with 12 strangers, that you never wash your hands before prepping dinner.

They start talking to each other before the dinner party, they start phone calling each other.Did you know they don't wash their hands before dinner?Like before prepping anything?Then group B, that singular person, they are professional food tasters.They know they're not the health department and I don't really start this rumor.I say whatever if they wash their hands or not, that's not what you're basing your conclusion off of if you show up or not.

Okay, it's weird, but like what about the next scenario?You invite group A, but all you can give them is the coordinates to your house.Not a home address, the coordinates.I mean, you still have 12 chances that one person's going to show up, right?One person is going to go through the hassle of decoding the coordinates.Some might plug them in wrong, but at least like maybe one will show up, you don't know.

But then I tell you group B, you know that one person is a coordinate expert.It's as easy as them to show up to the coordinates as if you wrote the house address with the house number and the street name.They know how to read it easily.Who do you invite?This is like a very over -complicated way of describing jury and bench trials, okay?A bench trial being, instead of the jury deciding your fate, it's one judge.

And there's really only two reasons that people will choose that, and it's like the examples that I just gave.So especially in criminal cases, they like a jury trial.The mentality is, you have to flip one.That's why there's lawyers who specialize in voir dire, just picking a jury.They come in just for picking the jury, and then they leave.They're not trying to pick the jury.

And you've got to flip them hard.You can't just flip them and say, like, oh, now I have a little bit of doubt.They have to be able to stand their ground and say, no, I have enough reasonable doubt.But you have technically 12 chances at reasonable doubt.Versus with a judge, you have one shot.And a judge is a professional hearer of excuses.

They have heard every excuse and every argument in the book.It makes sense to opt for the jury.But from my very limited research, it seems like there's two reasons why people would opt for a bench trial if they have the option.So the first option is a very rare situation of science.This case is overly technical.There's extensive data.

The whole narrative is data -based.There's no emotionally compelling narrative.All the facts, the arguments are rooted in complex scientific data.It would be worth considering.Now, this is also like a double -edged sword.Sometimes the confusing data, you want to go for a jury trial.

Confuse them?

Yeah, confuse them and make them believe it's reasonable doubt.But it's not.It's just they don't understand the data because we're all lay people.We don't like we're not specializing in this.

Yeah.

Right.But if your innocence is in the data, maybe you do up for a judge.Because they're technically above average in the smarty pants department.They may be able to decipher the truth in the science a bit better than 12 jurors who don't have much experience in it.So science, right?The second common reason is the defense is not a factual argument.

So like the science is like the coordinates.But the second one is more like the washing the hands argument.The defense is not a factual argument, or an emotional argument, or a compelling narrative argument.The argument the defense is making is legal.So for example, a man is charged with possession of a firearm by a felon.Everyone agrees he has a criminal history.

That's fact.He has this object in his backpack that looks like a gun.And it is a gun.But the gun's firing mechanism was permanently altered.years ago, and the statute in this jurisdiction defines firearm as something capable of expelling a projectile.So the defense is, sure, he had it, sure, he's a felon, sure, but it's not a firearm, by the letter of the law, it's not a firearm.

A judge may be more inclined to see this legal argument versus a jury might argue, does it really matter?It's a gun -shaped object, he had it in his possession, he couldn't have been wanting to do anything good with that.Basically a case of, I'm not arguing about what happened, I'm arguing about what the law means.Or another reason is like the facts are just revolting, and maybe the defendant is also revolting, but the law is on their side, so a hypothetical could be, and this is from Reddit, like someone says, I'll give you a completely hypothetical as an example, right?Let's pretend you represent someone who is found with 100 terabytes of CSAM, and you realize there is an argument that under the case law, the person didn't actually disseminate or create any of it.and you've got yourself in this weird gray area situation, you're probably gonna have a better chance convincing a judge to find in that manner.

If a jury gets a hold of it, they're gonna convict you as soon as the state proves your client was in possession.That's it.The facts are revolting, but maybe the law is on your side.The legal case is, you know, maybe a little weak on the prosecutors.A judge can hold a line for beyond a reasonable doubt where jurors would be so disgusted.Beyond reasonable doubt line would be overridden by their disgust.

They're like, I don't care about the law.He had it.Like, that's all that matters to me.

Fascinating.Okay.

data from the car is not enough to judge whether or not mackenzie had intent and that maybe it was going to be rooted in the data because that's that's the intent part they could argue whereas maybe jurors would see the black box data it's not like emotionally compelling they'd rather see the text messages instagram posts and what she did after as more evidence another argument could be made that the facts are relatedHer messages with Dom, her behavior before and after the crash, her smoking and driving posts, it's revolting.But maybe the defense believed it still does not prove intent legally.So maybe it's a legal argument of like, yes, she's kind of like not a good person, but like legally, is this intent?However, I do think it should be noted.I think the outcome of the trial was the right outcome.

Not that my opinion matters, but I tend to agree with the verdict.I also think the choice on Mackenzie's part to have a bench trial was kind of odd.I don't know if that was the best choice.I've listened also to a ton of lawyers be puzzled at the choice, but it really doesn't matter.Just because you choose the wrong choice doesn't mean there's injustice done to you, nor does it mean the outcome should be different.It's just more so like, why did you do that?

It's very interesting when you consider the fact that the defense did not bring in a medical expert to testify about POTS and the potential that Mackenzie suffered a POTS -related episode.They only brought in her mom to testify to the judge, which a defendant's mother's assertions are probably held very low on the scale of credibility, but it's interesting that they didn't bring in a medical expert.It makes you wonder whether A. it was such a bad defense.B, there's no medical expert that would be willing to testify in the way that the defense would consider helpful, and they would get eviscerated in the cross -examination by the prosecutors.Or C, the defense knew the judge would see through some medical expert bullshit testimony that there's, it's just gonna, it's gonna be dumb.The judge is gonna get peeved, and it's not going to make any sense, and it's just gonna cost a ton of money, or maybe all of the above.

Also, I do think it's interesting that they didn't bring in an expert because we're still talking about it to this day.Because they left it open to interpret.They left it open as like a possibility.Now, had they brought in a medical expert and they got eviscerated during cross -examination, that would be completely ruled out.So instead of ruling it out, they've left it open.then there's this whole argument where people are like well did Mackenzie not get a fair trial because she her defense attorney was so incompetent they didn't even bring in a medical expert so it's kind of you know it's an argument that goes in circles Mackenzie states that she doesn't remember anything after the crash and I mean they don't bring in a POTS expert but they also don't bring in an amnesia expert of any sort because people are skeptical that Mackenzie conveniently does not remember anything in the pivotal moments before the crash.

A lot of people who have been in car accidents anecdotally say that that is a fact like is in fact something that does happen to them but not bringing in an amnesia expert who can testify to that is a very interesting choice.Unless the defense thinks that whatever the expert will testify to the judge isn't going to buy it.One former resident in the reformatory is asked whether or not they saw Mackenzie show any signs of POTS in jail and she says, not once.She seemed like a very healthy young girl.I mean, she was constantly in the yard.There were even times where we were in the middle of a heat wave and she was laying out with baby oil, tanning in a hundred degree weather.

She was very active, always walking.I never saw her get blood pressure checks, routine emergency.Like, I never saw her go to take any sort of medication.She seemed healthy to me.Yeah.And we went through like 31 ,000 pages of text messages between Mackenzie and Dom.

And it seems like most of her very strong health concerns came from it does appear that she had a strong ED and she lost her period at some point.And like there's a lot of conversation where Dom is encouraging her to eat and like trying to get her to eat.So I think that they don't really ever talk about POTS ever.But like maybe they chose the bench trial because they were going to argue the legal technicality that yes, this happened, the crash was clearly done by Mackenzie, but legally it's not intent because she was passed out or for whatever reason.If the bench trial was chosen for the fact that the black box information is so technical that a lay person would not be able to decipher it, which I don't necessarily agree with that, but if that were the case,it still confuses me that defense didn't provide compelling arguments on how that's the case.

I think even Karen Reid's black box data was more hotly debated than this case.So I'm just a bit confused on the purpose of the bench trial, or was it chosen because they just thought Mackenzie is just so unlikable that only a judge could put aside her actions before and after the crash and rule solely on what she's charged with?I have no clue.One Redditor theorizes if the prosecution is able to even get a few of those social media posts of hers admitted, then as a lawyer, I would push for a bench trial.She came across horribly, and whether instructed to do so or not, I could absolutely see jurors seeing her relentless self -adulation, performative indifference, rules don't apply to me, I get what I want attitude, and say to themselves, yeah, that seems like the type of girl who would and could do what she did, or what the prosecutors say she did.Like another viral case is Michelle Carter.

Do you guys remember her?She encouraged her boyfriend to self -exit through text messages She famously opted for a bench trial because her behavior Oh, she was found guilty.She's found guilty of involuntary manslaughter, but her behavior was so deplorable, like those text messages are gonna be admitted.She's not a likable person by a long shot.And the defense argued all these legal technicalities of like, okay, yeah, she did do those things, but technically it's not manslaughter.They argued she wasn't even there.

They argued there was no bodily harm inflicted by her.Also, whatever happened to free speech?Like they're arguing all these legal stuff, but it's like, you're a gross person.So they thought the jury would never see past your gross person, but I guess the judge didn't either.And also in that case, I agree with the verdict.I actually think it should have been stronger, but she was found guilty of involuntary manslaughter.

Obviously, these are not even remotely similar cases, but it just does make you wonder that maybe, yeah, jurors would have found both of these girls not very redeemable.And sure, in hindsight, it might be easy to say, oh, well, maybeMackenzie was dumb for choosing a bench trial but who knows All I know is, Mackenzie does seem to piss off a lot of people.Even during the trial, it's very clear Mackenzie and her family know that all her jail calls are being monitored, and typically, this is the most sensitive time.It's during the trial, in preparation for the trial, and during the trial, the prosecutors are listening to every little thing that's going on.But Mackenzie still voices her frustration against the prosecution to her mom.

She says on a recorded jail line, And the man, the boy prosecutor, I'm like, man, do you have another suit or what?Because you wear the same suit every fucking day, you dirty as fuck.I know that suit stank with that roll in your neck, like his bald dumb ass, I hate him.He's ugly as fuck.

That girl prosecutor would be so pretty if she just wasn't such a bitch.Like, Jesus, like, I hate her.The boy prosecutor, I'm like, man, do you have another suit or what?You wear that same suit every fucking day, like, you dirty as fuck, like.

I'm like, Why are you doing this right now?For someone who is on trial for murder, Mackenzie is quite opinionated about how people look.She also rants about the detective that testified.I was trying to look at him like, what is he?He's not white.He's so ugly.

It almost seems like Natalie is trying to soften the statement.Well, he's definitely ugly on the inside.

Well, definitely inside.

He's definitely ugly inside.But Mackenzie brings it up in another conversation.He's not white.What is he?He's ugly as fuck.He built weird as fuck.

I'm like, why are you thick at the bottom and small at the top?He's slim thick for a man and it just throws me off.Again, in the middle of the trial.Keep in mind, Natalie and Steve this entire time have been screaming from the hilltops that Mackenzie is not a bully, that she just has a fierce personality.But then there's moments on these jail calls where Mackenzie will be talking to her mom and she gets distracted by a new inmate that's coming in and she says, oh my god, another girl just got moved in.

our pod.She looks slow as fuck.

Natalie's like, well, she may just be distraught because they're new.They just got into prison.No, she look, and then she says the R word.

Another girl just got moved on our pod.She looks slow as.

Well, she may be distraught.

No, she looks.She's meaner than a wet cat.I always find it interesting when people who have zero sympathy for others expect full sympathy for themselves from every single person around them.She's talking about how she doesn't want to go to court, aka to her own murder trial.She's like, if one of Davion and Dom's friends, do you guys remember H?I talked about H. He was one of the first students to kind of start his own little investigation and yes, he did come up with some conspiratorial thoughts about what happened and even the police pointed out some of it was a little off, but he was very passionate about trying to get justice, right?

And you have to have some level of respect for that, but he also should He's the one that responded to Mackenzie on social media when she posted about Dom, and then he was like, what about Davion?Mackenzie says, I don't want to go to the courtroom if H is in the courtroom.I don't feel safe with him anywhere near me. I feel like he's going to attack me.Natalie is like, I don't know if there's anything you can do about that.Well, I'm going to refuse to go in the courtroom then.Honey, you can't.

Just don't even look over there.And then he's like hugging Miss Russo.She's probably the one that told him to come harass me at the grave and follow me that day.

And then he's like hugging Miss Russo like, She's probably the one that told him to come harass me at the grave and follow me that day.

There is zero proof of that, by the way.And it's just kind of weird.You're the one on trial for killing two people.I don't know if there are that many people that are scarier than you in the town of Strongsville.And I do get that there is some nuance to who is in the room during a murder trial.The defendant usually wants to have family and friends to show up to show the jury or the judge in this case that they have support, that not everybody has turned on them, so it must mean that there is a shot at redemption, right?

Mackenzie asked Natalie if Rosie and Bubba can come to the courtroom, which Natalie responds.Mackenzie is upset that Rosie has not shown up to court a single time to support her, and her mom, Natalie, has to explain to her over the course of one too many jail calls that, quote, Rosie cannot show up to court because she's on the defense witness list.And if the defense were to ever call her, they cannot because she's been there for other parts of the trial, and if there is a sequestration order in place, which there most likely is, judging based off the jail calls, right, then Rosie can't come to court.Which side note, remember Rosie was like, I was willing to testify, but I was never called.I think that applied both ways.I'm assuming the prosecution never called her because she's on the defense witness list and most likely it would not help the prosecutor's case.

Like she would just be such a risky witness that would provide probably no value to the prosecutors.But it is interesting that it was phrased as more so like, oh, if the prosecutors called me, I would have come, right?But there is a little bit more to the story.Anyway, the whole thing just does not feel right to Mackenzie.She's not having it.Good old Mackenzie, sharp as a marble.

She still doesn't like that Rosie hasn't shown up to court.And on top of that, there's this developing issue where Rosie is friends with people who don't like Mackenzie.And this is like really bothering Mackenzie.I deduce this from the fact that Mackenzie brings it up across multiple different jail calls with her mom when they could be talking about literally anything.One call starts off normally with Mackenzie talking about how she couldn't sleep well the night before because quote somebody's fucking arguing loud as fuck at 4 a .m And I couldn't go back to sleep, but then I got anxiety because oh, I forgot to tell you So Rosie's hanging out with like Natalie interrupts her.

No, I know no, that's all fixed I told her not to say anything because it's not confirmed and it's a hundred percent not true.She unfriended them and everything I don't believe that I do because how are you gonna post that shit about me like Rosie?

No, I know I know that's all fixed I told her not to say anything because it's not confirmed and it's 100 % "-Not true. She unfriended them and everything." "-I don't believe that." "-I do." "- 'Cause how are you gonna post that shit about, like, me?"

So she's saying that Rosie is hanging out with this girl named Sammy and Sammy has been posting negatively about Mackenzie online and Mackenzie is upset that Rosie is hanging out with someone like Sammy.

"-How is she knowing all of this?"

Because another friend will call her and tattle.The other friend that I believe is the other one in the documentary.

She is too involved over what?

And I also think it's weird that Natalie's so involved.Natalie is like, how do you know she's with Sammy every day?Because every time I would call Rosie when I would be, you know, at free phone call day, she would be with Sammy.And if Sammy's going to post that weird ass shit about me and Rosie's cool with her, I'm not going to be cool with her.So Natalie is like, I'm gonna reach out to Faith, and Faith is going to look into it.Now, Faith is the other one in the Netflix documentary.

And like, has been— Yeah.

Yeah.And so Natalie is like, Faith's checking into what that was.I don't think they're together anymore.Like, I don't think they're hanging out anymore.Well, Faith told me that they hang out every single day, and I believe Faith, because I wanna be told stuff like that.She doesn't know that though.

I don't know if she knows that or not.She talked to Rosie last night.So let's just wait to see what she says.But that's weird as fuck.What the fuck?Right.

How come I don't have this issue with any of the other people who just like support me?

I don't know if it's an issue though, sweetie.

It's clearly an issue.I mean, she clearly took down all the pictures of me off her Instagram with her and that's weird as fuck.And then she won't put free Kenzie and shit, like that's weird.And now she's hanging out with someone who wants to be like, yup, when they find me guilty of murder.Like that's just, just wait till you see it.Faith.

And I will literally block Rosie's contact on here.I don't know why, I just get weird ass vibes from her.I know, and that's because she means a lot to you.What?She means a lot to you.No, that's not.

Faith and Jada and Kendra mean a lot to me too, and I don't get those vibes from them, so that's not why.That's definitely not why.Mackenzie gets a little upset at her mom saying, but why didn't you tell me is the crazy thing.I don't like that.How would I know?Natalie tells her that she just needs to talk to Faith first before talking to Rosie and not spread unnecessary anxiety or whatever, unless she's sure about it.

But Mackenzie is still ranting about Sammy, saying, Mackenzie's simplicity is enviable.

Later in the call, Mackenzie brings it up again, asking, But that's all she says every single time.

Like, that is so weird to me. I'm just weirded out.I just feel like, why did you delete everything off Instagram about me?Then ask her, Ken!Why are you hanging out with people that are weird as fuck?Ask her just be like I heard you were hanging out with people that are glad I'm in here.Is that true?

I don't even want to call her though and waste my time.

I don't even want to call her though and waste my time.Don't accuse.Don't accuse.I'm accusing the fuck out of her.I don't give a fuck.Like I'm already told like my people wouldn't lie.

That's not true though.Talk to Faith first, see what the conversation was, and then ask her.

I'm just weirded out by her like.

I don't know, I'm just weirded out by her.

But nobody likes being accused of things they didn't do, right?If you can't post my face and be like, free her.if you can't post and be like free Kenzie She's fucking innocent.Like this is crazy shit.Like what the fuck that's weird.She was there.

She did all that She did not post free me.And if my friend was in fucking jail, I'd post them every fucking day being like free them Okay, but she did post on your birthday, remember?I didn't see anybody else do that except for Rosie and Nina.Like, you know?So just pause and ask her, are you hanging out with Sammy?I heard she's glad I'm in here, are you still hanging out with her?

Don't accuse, ask.And she posted on your birthday.There's just weird shit going on, I don't know.Just keep being strong, keep the faith, and you have to trust in your friends, okay?There's just weird shit going on, I don't know.

Just keep be strong, keep the faith, and you have to trust in your friend.

It appears they figure out what the problem is, but Mackenzie is still confused why Rosie never shows up to court to support her, to which again, Natalie reminds her, because we didn't know if she was going to be a witness, remember?We didn't know, so she couldn't have been there.You can't sit in there if you're a witness.In another call, Natalie reassures Mackenzie about Rosie, and Natalie says that she went through all of Rosie's pages, which is just like weird behavior for a mom, and saw that she's not following Sammy.What are you doing?Tell your child to get a grip.

Why are you stalking college kids on Instagram to see who they're following?But it appears this family is just super committed to their faults and limitations because Natalie continues to reassure Mackenzie that she saw that Rosie is not following Sammy.But Mackenzie is like, but see, that makes me nervous because what if she's lying?

But see, that makes me nervous though, because what if she's just lying?She's like, Sammy, I have to unfollow you for a little bit, but I'm about to, like, tell you.

She would never.You gotta trust.She would never.She's been there for you from the beginning of time.

Okay, this whole thing is so weird to me for a multitude of reasons.Why does Mackenzie care so much?Just stop talking to Rosie.It's not like you have to talk to her.It's not like you guys go to the same school.You're in prison.

In fact, it takes more energy and money to talk to her on these collected call lines.Also, Natalie, why are you getting involved?Why are you not telling your daughter, get a grip, get a grip?Why are you so adamant that your daughter should be nice to Rosie?That's also weird.Why can't you just tell her, okay, then just don't be friends with her.

Damn.Why does she have to see from Rosie's side?Why does she have to trust Rosie?Like all of this is weird.That's not to say that I'm on anyone's side of the argument.I just think this whole thing is dumb, and I'm confused why everyone keeps going.

There's another call where Natalie almost cryptically tells Mackenzie she should never doubt Bubba or Rosie, and Mackenzie wants to know why.She's like, what are they doing?I can't really get into it on the phone, but they're amazing.100 % amazing.You should never have doubt in your mind about that one, especially Rosie.Bubba, you should never have doubt in your mind about their...

Well, what are they doing?

I can't really get into it on the phone, but it's not amazing.

Never have a doubt in your mind about that one, especially that bubble.You should never have a doubt in your mind about their.

That's crazy.What was this?We don't know.

It seems like it was during the trial or soon after.But down in her mind, Mackenzie has.It might be the only thing up there, okay?In a later phone call, Mackenzie brings it up again, and she says, I'm gonna have people watching her.And if as soon as she hangs out with her, she's getting fucking blocked on everything, and you need to take her out of the group chat.Right.

I'm gonna have people watching her, and if as soon as she hangs out with her, she's getting fucking blocked on everything, and you need to take her out of the group chat.

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.Yeah, yeah, yeah.Bro, what is happening right now?

And Natalie's, like, agreeing.Like, Natalie has a group chat with Mackenzie's friends.

She's like running a mafia in there or something.Yes.Yeah, I'm gonna have people watching this person I'm gonna take you out and I'm gonna yeah, they will know like yeah, what is happening right now Natalie continues You've got to trust and there's nobody on her Instagram page.

It's just her modelpictures.Nobody's on there, not even Nina.But it used to be all of us.I just think it's weird.I don't know.

I don't like how she just deleted our pictures and she also deleted that YouTube video again.There's nothing anywhere though.You can't read into these things.You have to ask a question.Ask, don't accuse.She deleted the YouTube video.

I don't need to ask.And I want you to change my Instagram bio.To what?If they ain't hating, you doing something wrong.The fuck?That's what you need to change it to.

And then do hashtag free Kenzie.Okay?Don't forget, do it right now, because I don't want you to like, make it some stupid shit on accident.

And I want you to change my Instagram bio.

To what?

If they ain't hating, you doing something wrong.Fuck, that's what you need to change it to.And then do hashtag free Kenzie.

Okay.

Don't forget, do it right now, because like, I don't want you to make it so, The quote in its entirety is stupid, but okay.

Did they change it?Oh wait, her Instagram is gone.Yeah.

In another call, Mackenzie tells her mom to put long live Dom and long live Davion in my bio too.which I just feel like is a slap in the face to the victim's families.And there's just a lot of concern that she has of whether or not people support her.Mackenzie rants again to Natalie that she has a few friends that have yet to reach out to her in jail.And Natalie is reassuring her that those friends are just, quote, weak, you know, that she's just weak and she doesn't have a real good, secure sense of who she is.She's just a follower.

I feel like there's more pressing matters to tend to, but I mean, like, what could be more urgent, I guess?Like, the more pressing matters could include how the Sharillas believe the judge presiding over Mackenzie's case is corrupt.That's what they keep saying.The Sharillas believe the judge overseeing Mackenzie's case is corrupt.At least that's what they've been alluding to nonstop.They believe that there's something going on between Dom Russo's family and Judge Russo, which, side note, of course,

things, okay?They do share the same last name.does not mean that they are related.They are not related.That has been proven.And another thing, Christine Russo, Dom's mother, did in fact work for the DA's office, but that again doesn't necessarily mean anything.

It's not like she's currently working for the DA's office, and there's nothing to prove any sort of nefarious connection that would have impacted the trial.The main things I keep hearing from the Sharillas is that the investigators didn't hand over some interviews during discovery, which allegedly has Dom's mom and brother talking about Mackenzie's medical condition.pots which i did hear in one interview dom's mom says that mackenzie started bringing it up after the crash and she felt like it was trying to plant seeds but let's say this is true maybe they're sitting there and being like oh yeah i saw her faint all the time i saw her pass out all the time right like just for hypotheticals let's say that's true Even if they said that, I don't know how that changes anything as it pertains to the trial.Like I said, you can have POTS and drive safely.You can have POTS and kill people in a car crash.It was up to them to bring in a POTS expert, a medical expert, to prove that she indeed did have some sort of accident relating to POTS.

It's not up to Dom's mom.It's not Dom's mom's opinion.So I just don't know where this correlation is, but they're kind of alluding to some sort of corruption behind the scenes.Aside from that, I do think that if they really did not received certain key things in Discovery that were necessary to their defense, that would be a big, big problem.Like, there are strict laws for Discovery and that just doesn't seem to be the basis of their appeal, or at least not the main one.And it's just not something that they bring up all the time.

It's just in interviews.I would imagine that's a huge thing.And the second thing is, they bring up frequently in interviews, is that they believe that there is some sort of corruption or bribery happening.In one interview, the interviewer says to Mackenzie's dad, Steve, the interviewer says, you know, I was trying to explain that having the last name Russo in this county ishaving the last name Kennedy in Boston.I just don't know if that's like a really good comparison because the Kennedy like that is a Globally known last name with a lot of power behind it, especially in the political world But it's just kind of odd to which Steve looks really smug and he responds There might be some truth to that Like I said, this is a political family and I apologize to the Flanagan family right now If it was just Davion in that car, she wouldn't be in jail It would have never left the juvenile court.

This has to do with the boy's last name and the judge saying, well, I don't have a blood relationship.Look, I'm not saying she has a blood relationship.I'm saying she has relationship with the Russo family.And he, you know, even saying that in court, if you're going to believe like she doesn't have a relationship, you're fooling yourself.I'm not saying it's directly with Christine Russo, but, you know, down the road here, but it's with somebody.Christine Russo was part of the prosecutor's office at one point, and I believe she's friends with Tim Troop.

I think they were in the office together.

And I apologize to the Flanagan family right now.If it was just Davion in the car, she wouldn't be in jail.It would have never left the juvenile court.This has to do with the boy's last name.And the judge saying, well, I don't have a blood relationship.Look, I'm not saying she has got a blood relationship.

I'm saying she has relationships with the Russo family.And her even saying that in court, just, it's just...If you're going to believe she doesn't have a relationship, you're fooling yourself.

Steve has asked, why do you think they went so hard against her?There's the part where maybe I'll get myself into trouble.Let's try to avoid.I think there's some collusion going on.I think it's a fix.I think it's a favor.

The last name Russo in this town.I just and I understand that lots of conspiratorial things do end up being true.And I think at face value, the criminal justice system in America has a lot of deepflaws, but the way they make it seem like she is a scientist curing cancer and we gotta take her down, it's kind of this weird energy.Before the conviction, Mackenzie is talking to her mom about how she feels about this whole thing.And she says, I understand that I'm going to have to do some time.

I obviously would rather not.I feel like I shouldn't do any, but that's how it's going to be.You know, this is the situation that is what will make the families happy.But murder, that's just horrible.Natalie agrees.Nope, nope, nope.

So we're just going to go fight, fight, fight, fight a guns a blazing.Mackenzie tells her I'm so for real.Contact who I told you to contact, like that famous person.

Like, I obviously would rather not.I feel like I shouldn't do any, but that's how it has to be in this situation, as we'll make the families happy.But murder, like...

I think she's talking about Kim Kardashian again.Oh, I know.I'm on it.Mackenzie thinks that they should organize some sort of event for her.But you can get like a protest going on and shit.Like yeah, I'm dead ass serious.

Like a whole ass protest.Natalie tells her they will keep fighting, but I hope it doesn't go that route because that would be ridiculous Mackenzie says yes, and honestly if the judge does that I'm just gonna know that she has some weird ass going on like bribery or something That's all I can think of I guess Mackenzie wants her mom to get someone famous Maybe Kim Kardashian then organize some sort of protest in the off chance that the judge does find Mackenzie guilty of murder Which she thinks is unfathomable Unless there's some sort of corruption.And in another call, Mackenzie wonders.So clearly, the judge just wants to speed this process up as fast as she can and get it out of her hand.And like, this is a very common thing.Judges do have a schedule.

They do wantspeedy trials, right?So like, this is nothing new.I wonder how much money she made from this.

I wonder how much money she made from this.

The judge?

Yeah, that's what she says.They need to look for like deposits or some sh - or cash, some weird sh -.They probably gave her the cash that like Dom had.Kenzie, we're not talking about anything, remember?I don't even know what you're talking about.So just stop.

And again, I think her mom is just saving for the fact that this is a recorded line.In one call with a friend, Mackenzie is talking about how she's gonna be on the news and the verdict is gonna come out, which her friend says, and like her friends are crazy too.Why are they so obsessed with you?

It's probably just because, like, my boyfriend's last name is, like, Russo, and, like, his family is just, like, trying to, like, do some weird shit.I don't know.They don't f**k with me no more.

Again, like, I did look into it, okay?And there are lots of people with the name Russo.And there are lots of people in politics or in the legal field with the last name Russo.But also, there's lots of Koreans with the last name Lee.Are they related to Samsung?Probably not.

Are they bribing people in court?Probably not.They're probably just a regular person with the same last name She says like I would understand if they gave me like a normal charge But like the charges that they gave me are like literally insane.They're trying to make it seem like something that it's not It's not like I I didn't do this on purpose.I got in a car accident.

I'm a third victim there's evil working against me and I'm like there's evil working against me like and then I'm like why would I be saved to live like life if like they were just gonna arrest me and like I don't understand.They brought me back to life just to put me in jail.That just doesn't make any sense to me.

So then I try to think, damn, maybe there's something good for me that's planned.

So then, like, I try to think that, like, damn, maybe there's, like, something good for me planned.Maybe, like, this is all a part of my story, and then I'm gonna write my book when I get out of here and shit.

There's another phone call where, during the trial, like I said, they were not very excited about media coverage, as they are with the Kim Kardashian phone call, and Mackenzie is just ranting about, like, why are people talking about me?And Natalie says, who knows?I mean, is the world that bored?

Mackenzie says, which is also interesting.

The whole, you know, is the world really that bored is an interesting take because it feels like it's coming from the perspective of why is the world so focused on Mackenzie when That's not the case.The world is focused on Dom and Davion being killed and it just happens to include Mackenzie purely because she's the one convicted or at least on trial at this point of killing them.It feels oddly self -centered.Natalie reassures her, but there's a lot of people that are like talking and they have your back and all the comment threads too.So like that's kind of nice.Another phone call between Mackenzie and Natalie.

This is like soon after the verdict is announced.The judge finds Mackenzie guilty and Mackenzie says, I'm literally in shock.That was the last thing I expected to happen.This is probably the most emotional phone call and she sounds like very distraught.This is just crazy.I don't understand how they could just be like, yeah, she wanted that to happen.

No, like they're all zooming in on my face and shit.And then they're getting to like handcuffing me and shit.Mackenzie asks her mom, why would they keep me alive if they want me to be in jail?

Yeah, this is just like I don't even like I'm like literally in shock.Like I just that was like just the last thing I expected to happen.

Same with me, baby.I'm flabbergasted.In total shock.

Oh my god.

No.

all like zooming in on my face and shit, and then they get to like handcuffing me and shit.Exactly, I know, I'm so sorry.

Kenzie, this is gonna make me cry, but you're alive, okay?

You're alive, honky.

Why would they do that?

Why would they keep me alive if they won't?

Because we don't know what your story is.Your story isn't done yet.It's just beginning.Who knows what the future holds for you?Who knows what the reason is?But there's a reason, okay?

We just gotta get through this journey.

Keep praying, baby, and just know that everything happens for a reason.And who knows, this may have saved you from something.I don't know, but that was craziness.And we've already begun fighting.

Interestingly enough, in one phone call, Steve jumps in, and it seems like Steve is out of these phone calls because he literally cannot hold his tongue, which is evident through his interviews.But he does jump in in one, and he says, I'm angry for you, baby.I'm just letting you know I'm angry.Every waking second that I'm thinking is about you.That is all I'm thinking about.

Every waking second that I'm thinking is about you.That's all I'm thinking about.I just want to let you know I love you so much and I cannot believe you are being put through this.I hope karma comes back and bites everybody that's against you in the ass so hard that they all disappear.If I had a magic wand, I wouldn't go back and help Damien first.I'd make everybody else disappear.

I'd click my fingers and everybody would disappear.That's how angry I am.They screwed you so bad.Okay, I gotta go.Bye.I love you.

I love you.I love you.I love you.I love you.I'm on your side.100%.

And I know, I know you didn't do this on purpose.

So I don't know if he's saying like he would help Davion first or if he would make everyone disappear.

What does that mean?

He says, I click my fingers and everybody would disappear.That's what I would do.That's how angry I am.They screwed you so bad.

He said he want to go back in time.

If he had a magic wand and he says, I wouldn't go back and help Davion first.

I wouldn't go back in time.

that's what he says But he's also like very like doesn't make any sense.

I will make everyone disappear.

Yeah, so I think he's like I hate everybody Yeah, I think maybe in the past he might have this is just me taking from this statement and trying to see what that means Maybe he said in the past like I would go back and I would first help Davion But they're very upset about Davion's family's victim statements So maybe he's saying, oh, after this, like now I'm so mad.

Oh, I wouldn't go back.

Yeah.I would just make everybody disappear.It's interesting.But Mackenzie reiterates in a phone call with her mom.No, it's not.But like this time, it's like they're saying I did it on purpose.

So she's like upset that all the news is saying that she did it on purpose.

Now, this time it's saying that, like making the whole world know that they just think I did it on purpose.Well, I'm guilty of doing it on purpose when I fucking didn't do it on purpose.

I know.I know.

I didn't even do it on accident.It wasn't even anything.I don't even fucking know what happened.

I know.What does that mean?If you didn't do it on purpose, it would have had to have been an accident.Like, I'm confused.What do you mean you did nothing?Like, how does that even make sense?

You're the one driving.Even if you suffered from a medical emergency, you would still, it would still be an accident.It just feels like a lack of self -reflection.Mackenzie encourages her mom to make some sort of free Mackenzie Facebook page, which Rosie told us that the shabillas are not running, but there are extensive phone calls where Mackenzie keeps encouraging her mom to make a Facebook page about it.You should really make a Facebook page where it's like talking about how this is all wrong.Natalie informs her, Kenzie, stop talking on the phone right now about these things.

You can't talk on the phone.We have to talk in person.You should really make a Facebook page where it's like, like talking about how like this is just wrong and like, And again, that's not me insinuating that they run the Facebook page, I have no idea who runs the Facebook page, but there was just a lot of conversations where Mackenzie tells Natalie to run a Facebook page andlo and behold, there is a Facebook page.

When you get charged, what the judge is looking for is like remorse.You're sorry, you see where you f***ed up, but everything they're doing and the parents are doing on top of it, it's only making this worse.This is never going to work out even in the long run.The parents are still babying her, enabling her.

That's what Davion's parents said.They say that if she even gets out in 15 however many years, right?If her parents keep doing this, like nothing will change.Yeah, and they're doing it.

It will get worse and worse.

Natalie Vance.

Well, I can't talk about anything on this stupid phone call.

Yes, because baldhead bitch is listening.Hey, what's up?Davion first joined the Flanigans when he was eight and a half years old.So Davion and his sisters were actually adopted by the Flanagan family.And the biggest thing that they remember is that he was just obsessed with football ever since he was a kid.Like he never had the opportunity to be involved in organized sports, which of course Davion's mom, Mrs. Flanagan, is like, football?

Like out of all the sports, why football, right?She's worried about him.But she also just like wants him to experience what he wants to do.And Davion's dad says Davion saw a lot in those eight and a half years before he came to us.I believe he was, in fact, like two years of it was in county care, which is really rough.He says he was exposed to a lot of things that no one should be exposed to at all, let alone a child.

They say that, you know, he was even the team barber for the football coach and the football team.So he had his own equipment and he would always have them over, much to their detriment, they say, because there's hair all over the place all the time.And they think that senior year was really hard for Davion because he tore his ACL.It was the third game of his senior season, he wanted to go to scholarship for football for college, and he loses the thing that he was so passionate about.And I think there was a lot of discourse that I saw online that especially with when your childhood, the first initial years of childhood are extremely rough psychologically, a lot of people encourage putting those children into sports.I know in Korea martial arts is a big thing as well, because it helps to… there's just a lot of research of how it helps the development, especially when he has seen a lot that he shouldn't have to have seen as a kid, and I think losing that was huge for him.

Davion's dad says, I think if we're completely being honest, it was probably the start of his downward spiral.Downward spiral being I think that he just had a very normal teenager rebellious streak and Davion's parents say that they didn't like him smoking weed.They thought weed was a gateway drug, but they can also see how he did get into weed because he had so much anxiety.and it would just help with his anxiety and it finally felt like it was calming down a lot of the feelings that he might have had and you know he's been through so much more hardship than so many people his age and he's going through this normal very rebellious teenage phase of course there's going to be arguments and disagreements with his parents but it seemed like by all accounts what everybody has been saying and not just the family but friends of Davion that if anyone was going to get through it it was going to be Davion and the Flanagans but Mackenzie took him just took him away from them.Davion's parents say Davion was always the one checking in on his sisters.So him and his two sisters were adopted.

And Divine Flanagan has been really vocal and she's done a lot of insightful interviews where she talks about the process that she had to go through with grief and mourning and probably is definitely still going through.But she says, you know, there was a DM that she received from Mackenzie.And this is like August 5th of 2022.This is like a few days after the crash.Mackenzie writes like this is after killing Davion, her brother.Hey, you don't need to answer me. I wouldn't expect you to.

I just want to say I'm sorry for everything.I love you and Davion.He was like a brother to me. I hope you're all getting as positive, calm energy because your family deserves it.And I'm praying for you guys.What is that message after killing someone's brother?Davion's mom tells the judge, And typically, I mean, this sounds like something that a lot of mothers would say about their children, but after going through this massive FOIA request on this file, Things are not edited to look beneficial to anyone, even the victims.

I mean, this really is like a spot on description of Davion.He had friends like everywhere and all of them are coming to the police trying to ask like, how can we help?Here's what we found.Like we're investigating.People are going out of their way to express how much of an impact that he had on them.And I don't think they were doing that intentionally.

I think it was just like they couldn't help it because they're going through that grief.Davion's mom continues,the pain and loss that they have gone through and was always there for them.This fact alone breaks my heart for my girls and my family.So many dreams shattered, a future stolen, we will never get to see the amazing man that he truly was to become.His life was precious, like I said.

He was so much more than cargo.Davion's parents are very religious and I do think that there was a part included where Davion's mom is talking about religion and how Mackenzie should repent.Davion's sister, Devine, tells the judge in part, This is a recorded phone call of Mackenzie and Natalie talking about Davion's family's impact statements.Mackenzie says on the recorded jail line, and when Davion's mom said, I hope Kenzie can repent and weird ass shit, like that was weird as fuck.Natalie says, I do feel bad for Divine, obviously.I do too.

That's what Mackenzie says.

And like when Davion's mom said, I hope Kenzie can like repent and like weird ass shit, like that was weird as fuck.

I was like, what are you - I do feel bad.I do feel bad for Divine, obviously, a hundred percent.

So in divine's impact statement, she's talking about how it feels like Mackenzie has no remorse It feels like she doesn't care and like even before the jail calls.It's like she went out for Halloween She went out to the Kid Cudi concert like it's very clear She just does whatever she wants but they start talking about divine and what she said and Mackenzie says Divine said something along the lines of Mackenzie always has the easy way out Mackenzie says you don't even know me.So what the fuck?What the fuck do you mean easy way out?

Our house?

Yeah, because, you know, you were never disciplined.There was never consequences.There was no anything.What are they saying?

Just people like that.

Just Internet trolls.

Natalie rants about the Internet trolls, saying, quote, The Internet trolls are evil and vile.And anyone saying anything positive is going to be attacked.There's no sense in doing that.They're evil, disgusting people.In a separate call, Natalie says, I wish I could talk to you in private.There's some shit being posted online.

Your mind will be blown.There's sheep who believe everything that they read.

There's sheep who believe what's everything that they read or hear and read on social media.And then there's other people who know better.That's why I hate the Internet.I hate social media.Ignorant people.

Natalie reassures Mackenzie, people that know you know that this is bullshit.People that don't know you are ignorant and they're talking out of their ass.Christine Russo gives her impact statement to the judge, and she says, Not a minute goes by each day that I don't think about my son as well as Davion.My heart is forever broken.The cries heard from the Sharilla family and friends after the verdict are nothing more than a lack of remorse.Mackenzie Sharilla had a choice.

Dom and Davion did not.Mackenzie is in the back of the courtroom and she's shaking her head while crying.We're all left here to mourn.Mackenzie is going to prison because you did this.Be thankful that you're still alive and have a future, whatever that may be.Dom and Davion were robbed of their futures, their hopes, and their dreams.

Mackenzie showed no mercy on Dom, nor did she on Davion.Only God at this time can have mercy on her soul.Angelo, Dom's brother, tells the judge that Mackenzie is the most selfish person he knows, ironically dating Dom, his brother, who is the most selfless person he knows.Mackenzie Sherilla murdered Dom and Davion in cold blood and had already moved on.Mackenzie killed Dom over the thought of losing him, and she made Davion collateral damage.She was driving, going to concerts, dressing up for Halloween, no thoughts of the feelings and lives that she had destroyed.

Mackenzie ran, sent a jail call.I understand Davion's mom, like I know how they think because they don't know me, but it's like what Mrs. Russo and Angelo said, that was just crazy.Oh my gosh, Kenzie, look, don't you think on it one second.

Oh my gosh, Kenzie, look, don't you think on it one second.

Oh my God, I hate her mom.

Yeah, Mackenzie points out the real things that are of importance now.I'm worried about my stuff because that's how they feel about me.They definitely f***ed up my stuff.Because remember, she has stuff in Dom's house.Why is Angela such a f***ing liar?What the f***?

Kenzie, they're just evil people, baby.I'm sorry.Don't think on it.Do not think on it anymore.Stop.I need you to stop, okay?

Move forward.You hear, mama?In another phone call, Kenzie keeps asking her parents, you need to get my stuff from Dom's house before they burn it or some shit.What are you going to do with the stuff you're in prison?In another call, Natalie feels like someone is finally on her side about something.And she says, oh, speaking of that, somebody was online saying how, you know, there was no parental supervision with you and stuff.

This was a party house.And I just let people have all kinds of parties here and everything.And finally, the neighbor across the streetshe was like you guys don't know what you're talking about they're a wonderful family they're very nice and i live across the street there were never parties over there i don't know what you guys are talking about don't believe everything you hear yeah well you know all those people are just talking out of their ass but are they?natalie shirilla also pleads with the judge in court before sentencing and she's like wearing a tank top It's the craziest thing, like everyone, Divine, everyone, like people that are kids.I mean, Divine, I don't know if she was 18 at the, no, I think she was younger than 18 at the time.

Everyone showed up to court with, like the decorum is there.Natalie's wearing a tank top.I understand clothing can get expensive, but if you're ever going to borrow a blazer, go buy a blazer and then return it, like today is the day.

Yeah, this is your daughter's - Yeah, life.

She says, I just want to say to the families that I'm broken, sad, and lost, and my heart hurts for everyone, okay?She says, okay.

Sad and lost and my heart hurts for everyone, okay?Davian was her new friend and Dom was the love of her life and he was part of our family, okay?I'm just so sorry that this happened and we're heartbroken, okay?

So it's almost like she's like, okay, check, check, said sorry to them.Okay.Okay.Did you hear me?Okay.Okay.

And then your honor, this was a terrible, tragic nightmare accident have happened that she has no memory of and she will never emotionally or physically recover from it.She almost died too.And we're asking that you please not run the sentences consecutive.So that was a huge thing.If, if it's 15 years consecutive, she would need 30 years before the option of parole.I believe she needed to have parole as an option because she was 17, even though she's tried as well.

adult.And she does like the prayer hands.She's like, this is why we ask, you know, do not run the sentences consecutive.

She stopped saying okay after addressing the family?

Yeah.Dom was family and we all loved each other.That morning of the accident, she called.So now she's like using this time to clarify shit.Remember how Dom's mom was like, when I called, she was so upset about Facebook.Do you remember?

Yeah.Yeah.

She called.I got a call that there was a car accident.So I went to the hospital and I didn't even know who was in the car.The names had not been confirmed yet.And I was like, I'm going to cry because I missed him so much.We loved him so much.

So I called Dom over and over again, praying that he was going to answer the phone.And he didn't.He didn't answer the phone.So then I tried to call his mom and she didn't answer the phone either.And still.I didn't know who was in the car.

I didn't even, I didn't know if she was alive.I didn't know what was happening.So then when we were in the waiting room and then his mom ended up, she did call me.So I answered the phone and I was like, oh my God, I don't even know who was in the car.Like, what's happening?Was that Dom?

And she said, what do you mean?My son is dead.And I was like, I'm so sorry.And then she said something like, and now I have to wait until your kid's out of the hospital.And then I didn't hear the rest.I guess this is her trying to share her side of the story, but like such a weird, odd way to spend time talking to the judge.

She says, we loved him so much.I hung up the phone.I did not talk about social media.I didn't even know what was going on yet.Okay.So then that was it.

Um, what?

Yeah.

She's trying to defend her own character right now.Like she's like, I didn't say social media.

Yeah.And then she brings up the whole modeling post.

Right, that was like a day modeling post response.

Yes in the hospital that Yeah, yeah, I've never seen this happen before

She's like trying to clear her name.

Yeah.Usually when I...

Not even her daughter's name.

No.And usually when I say, oh, this was like the shittiest impact statement from a defendant's parent, it's because it's short and generic.Like, please have mercy on my kid.Right?But this is like the shittiest of the shittiest I've ever seen.In the hospital, that Vitality post, I commented on that because somebody called her a murderer and she's not a murderer.

She just got convicted of murder, right?So what?She didn't even have her phone at that point because the police still had it, okay?I jumped on and I was like, she's not a murderer.She's more sad than most of the people commenting.She's been trying to get in touch with you.

I mean, at that point, it was just an accident.So I commented on her behalf, not because of the modeling opportunity.Who cares about that?I just - I don't want them to refer to her as a murderer, okay?I don't even know.That comment got on the phone, you know, like, because the police still had her device and she could not access her phone or social media.

That's why I did it.I had called them asking if they could shut down social media.Because people were calling her a murderer and making death threats and organizing groups to take her out when she got out of the hospital and stuff.Yeah, Natalie.They'll just shut down social media to care of your daughter.I'm sure Google, Meta, and Oracle would absolutely lose it all for your daughter.

What better cause would there ever be?Natalie Shurila does not know how to read the room.Mackenzie is like crying.She's so emotional during this.She's like, yes.I don't know if she feels vindicated, okay, but...

There's two officers in frame and they also both look just like confused.This is during like the live stream of the verdict and the sentencing They're looking like they're a mixture of bored and getting confused and like what the fuck is this lady yapping about?They're just like what Natalie?She really continues.I didn't even want her phone.I don't care about her phone.

I don't care about social media I just wanted them to stop calling her a murderer I just wanted them to stop calling her a murderer so that when she did callShe would only listen to the music he wrote.

Okay.Okay.She was laying in bed for three months crying There was a shrine of him next to her with photos and things that he liked and this flower that lights up that he got her because you know He wanted it to be fresh and alive forever.It's like a little beautiful flower.Okay She's got the shrine of him next to her, so she was crying for three months.So her friends asked her if she wanted to go out to trick -or -treating or some Halloween, and it was at OU, Ohio University, and she didn't even want to go.

She said, I don't know, should I go?She couldn't even walk yet, barely.So I told her, I said, baby, please go, it's Halloween.You've been laying for three months crying, only listening to his music.Please go have a moment of fun, a moment of fun.So we told her to go.

Are these post?

My husband drove her.I brought her back home.She just needed a second of fun from losing her whole world, her whole world.So this was us.We told her to go.That concert she went to with Dom's cousin, the Kid Cudi concert.

Abby, Abby, you know, they picked her up.They brought her there.That was Mackenzie and Dom and Abby all decided to go to this concert together.And that was for Dom.Everything she did after the accident was either in honor of him to be close to him or just to be by him any way that she can.She's devastated and tragic.

And he was the heir that she breeds.okay and they went with his cousin we spent all kinds of time with him after the accident and what was the other thing it was so shocking the judge interrupts her i'm hearing an awful lot about your daughter i'm not hearing very much about the two dead people Dom, okay, I'm asking you for leniency because this was a tragic accident that she does not remember.And Davion, he's a new friend, I'm so sorry.What does that mean?His life is worthless?The judge asks.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, Isn't that part of the problem that they all trusted each other?It's not a problem at all.It's wonderful.How they all ended up in the car together until two of them ended up dead?I understand what it looks like.I'm saying this was a tragic accident.

She would never.We're gonna have to disagree on that.I understand.I understand.But anyway, um, that's it.I just wanted to address those.

We told her to go to those things and then she did go with Dom's family.So, um, Look on that with different eyes if you can, please.If you would have a moment.All you need is five minutes of conversation to have with her to learn who she is.Just, you know, you would just see five minutes.Yeah.

She's not capable of, you know, doing and you would see for yourself.Thank you.That's all.I'm so sorry, guys.Thank you.

I'm hearing an awful lot about your daughter.I'm not hearing very much about the two dead people.

The fact that she didn't even care to prepare anything more in depth about Dom and Davion.Later, Mackenzie asks her mom in a recorded jail line, why was the judge being so mean to you?I don't know.I don't care.I was about to be like, just stop talking to her because she clearly doesn't care.

I'm so mean to you.I was about to just be like, just stop talking to her because she clearly doesn't care.She's like, why are you talking about her so much and not the victim?

All the while, Natalie is trying to motivate Mackenzie.You are here for a reason.You impact lives no matter where you go in such a positive way.This is just another chapter.So Mackenzie shares her statement during sentencing.

I'm Dawn and Davion.I'm so deeply sorry.I hope one day you can see I would never let this happen or do it on purpose.I wish I could remember what happened.I'm just so sorry.I'm heartbroken.

I love Dawn and Davion.We were all friends and Dawn was my soulmate.I wish I could take all your pain away and I'm so sorry.And to my family, thank you for the support and all the love you guys give.Thank you for fighting with me. I love you all so much.

I mean she was emotional during it But I don't think I think a lot of the emotion was just for herself because it's sentencing and this is a little bit different from the speech She was brainstorming with her mom on the phone on the recorded jail lines Because in that one she says you can see I would never let this happen or do it on purpose.I'm just heartbroken I wish I could take all your pain away long live the boys and to my family and support.I thank you I thank you all for seeing the real under all these lies.Thank you

This was the first draft?

Yeah.

Thank you for non -stop fighting for me and all the love and support.I love you all.And then I pray one day people won't see me as this monster they are making me out to be.

She spent more time talking about her quote -unquote supporter.

Yeah, it makes sense that her attorney would just delete like all of that, okay?McKenzie understands the full scope of what's happened.In one conversation from jail, McKenzie says she's got some sort of message from someone named Benjamin Harper.She's worried that this is Davion's neighbor.And she tells her mom, I'm nervous for him to message me.They're about to send me some hate mail and shit.

Natalie tells her just block it.No, it's okay.I'm gonna reply.I'm gonna reply.I want them to send messages like that.

I want them to send me messages like that.I know what I did.I know what I didn't do.The only thing that I'm guilty of is driving.

But how do you know that if you don't remember what happened?Also, her lack of understanding reality is astonishing.In another phone call, she's talking to her mom about said sentencing.So this is right before sentencing.She's found guilty and she doesn't know how long she's going to be sentenced to.

And she says, Look, I don't look about to like say I don't want to go to court, like type shit.

When you don't have a choice.

What's the point of even having a court date?Like, I understand, like, they already, like, they already fucking, it's like, they're just fucking me over.Like, what's the point of even going?Like, there's no point of even having court anymore.Just fucking give me a time and just tell me so we can appeal this shit.

She had sentenced to 15 years to life to be served concurrently, which meansshe will be eligible for parole in 15 years, though it seems highly unlikely.Even the judge says it's probably unlikely.Right.But Mackenzie says to her mom in a jail call, but I'm surprised she only gave me like 15.

But I'm surprised she only gave me like 15.Like I thought she was going to give me like 85 years.No, I believe they're going to be death penalty or life in prison.No parole.Yeah.But she gave me 15 years and I do get parole.

That's crazy.

Davion's mom says, I'll be honest, we were taken aback when we found out that the sentences were to run concurrently.We were taken aback.She is essentially serving the same sentence that she would have if only one of the boys had been in the car.It's very hard to stomach.Mackenzie's parents have stomachs of steel.They're trying to take this case to the Supreme Court.

They did file an appeal.So after your conviction, you can file an appeal.They filed an appeal.It was rejected.They filed a second appeal, but they filed it one day late.So it has to be within the 365 days, but they filed it one day late and they argued it was like confusing because of leap year.

And everyone's like, um, The Sharillas state in interviews that they did not have a good defense, which is pretty par for the course for appeals, is to say that your attorneys did not represent you well enough.Pretty standard.They state that they were bullied, almost bullied into a bench trial instead of a jury trial.Steve says if this was a jury trial instead of a bench trial, quote, she would have never been convicted.She'd be free today.She'd be going on with her life, but she'd be free.

That's the truth.But to let you know, her lawyer, when asked her about a jury or a bench, she asked for a jury and he talked her out of it.And then he starts talking about the judge.He says, I mean, that ego.I don't know how she walks in and out of the room with that kind of ego.It's unfortunate that a sitting judge of that I'm just so shocked that they did that.

supporters.

Yeah, I think the support comes from I do think maybe the defense did do a good job and they didn't bring in a medical expert and they didn't rule out these world of possibilities, you know, and I think when it's not ruled out and I think because people come in with probably the same feeling I have, which is our criminal justice system is not the best.So maybe it's like, But we can't because there are innocent people in jail.So we have to give some sort of leeway and thought and I think they use that to their advantage because I just I'm lost.Yeah, but when the trial was happening, it seems like at some point they all agreed on a bench trial.I mean, they had to.Mackenzie had to agree on it, but even her parents.

In one jail call, Natalie is saying, oh, and then one of my friends was like, you made the right decision with choosing a bench trial and stuff.And I'm like, well, it wasn't up to me, you know what I mean?But thank you.And that made me start crying.So whatever happened up to this point, Kenzie, is exactly that it's supposed to be.We just have to trust and put our faith in it, okay?

So it seems like you like a bench trial.In another call, Mackenzie weirdly asks her mom if she should have done a jury trial, to which Natalie says, no, no, because there's still other people that are like, I don't care that she did this and this and she should get the death penalty.That person doesn't know you.That's how some people are talking.Nope.You made the right choice.

Regardless, they tried to take it up to the Supreme Court of Ohio, which they recently denied.Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of Ohio, Sharon Kennedy, refused to review McKenzie's case, writing in a decision that she declines to accept jurisdiction of the appeal.She could petition to the U .S.Supreme Court on a federal level, but anything on a federal level is even more tedious and even more of a lengthy process than on a state level, and it's just, your odds of that are not worth the fees usually.Most likely her next big milestone is her first parole hearing that will be in 2037, and I know that Dom and Davianna

families will most likely be attending and I think they will be attending with a fire -burning passion to keep her behind bars and I would think it would be a very long shot for her to be released on parole in 2037 which means if they reject her parole she has to wait anywhere between 1 to 10 years so like they tell you at your parole hearing if you're denied anywhere between 1 to 10 years but the fact that she's young would probably make it less than 10.It has to legally be less than 10, but it could be 10.It could be 9.

I just don't see her changing, like the way that the parents are acting too.

Yeah.Cheyenne says, I don't know if she still does it now, but when I was in there, she was journaling every single day.date, time stamp, and she told me it was for a book when she gets out.She told me she had a modeling gig before she even came in, and she was like, I got offered a modeling gig before I came in, I'm gonna write a book when I get out, I'm gonna be a social media influencer telling my story and all that stuff.So this is why the families are trying to do Dom and Davion's Law, because in Ohio, the Son of Sam's Laws, which protects the victim's families from the perpetrator profiting off their crimes, a lot of that in Ohio has not been updated to include social media.Right.

So I think it just includes a lot of the traditional ways of making money.So I think they're trying to get those updated.I mean, this whole book thing.Yeah.And she also says about Mackenzie, you know how in the Netflix documentary she says, I think about it every day and stuff like that.I'm not going to say she doesn't because I'm not in her head every day, but her actions, I don't think she does.

And she's like, since I've been gone, you know how I said juice was Jasmine's girlfriend.As soon as I left, she started doing stuff with juice.So Cheyenne's just like, she's in there, like, just doing things.Like, she doesn't - I don't think she's thinking about it every day.And that is where we are with the Mackenzie Shurila case.I know that this was a very lengthy journey that I just took you on, but I just wanted to be as thorough as possible.

leniency of time to have people go through and like for me to sit there and read like i know that a lot of you guys are also working so it would have just been impossible so hopefully that is as thorough as we can get let me know your thoughts what do you think leave it in the comments and with that stay safe and i will see you in the next one