“Habla desde la cárcel el pastor de Chinchiná condenado a 40 años en la Tramacúa”

Chapter 3

What starts to happen out of the ordinary of a relationship between a stepfather and his stepdaughter?

But she's turning into a... I made a mistake, Rafa, that basically was what led us to detonate.

For some reason, her partner finds out.

And literally answers me, we're going to destroy you. detonate. For some reason his partner finds out

and literally answers me, we are going to destroy you. That first situation he lived with his stepdaughter, he had already done it with some other. Something began to resonate in my head

that she had to be her, she has to be. José, what happened on April 29th?

That's when I was taken by the f*****g liar to the farm where the events took place.

It's said that you play music at full volume. There's a video where you can see the f*****g liar running away and you chasing her. to the I wanted to give you an interview that many of you wrote for us to be able to do. Fortunately, our guest today accepted this interview. The truth is that the country was waiting for this version to be given at some point. As always, we try to do it with respect and to make it clear from the beginning of this interview that the fact that the criminal conduct listens to the prisoners of freedom, listens to an aversion, does not mean that it justifies or is on one side or the

other. Also clarify that this interview was recorded with the authorization of the victim's lawyer,

who very kindly told us, it is very interesting that we can analyze what happened in this case. Well, surely you will remember that in April of last year a video started circulating on social media that went viral of an adult chasing a woman. This news was replicated in seconds, since José Rley Ramírez was accused of being a pastor of a Christian church that had committed a crime against his own stepdaughter. Today José Rley is with us and he will tell us his version of the events. José, thank you for accepting the interview with criminal conduct. Thank you Michelle, thank you Kevin, thank you for taking the time and well, let's go with the interview, I'm ready.

The first time you face the country, I imagine it must not be easy to tell all this that happened. Why did you make the decision to say I'm going to talk? Because there are many questions, many unanswered questions, there are many people who wonder why, how and why. It's important that the world, because we only talk about Colombia, but since this is on social media in many places in the world, this information came.

I was telling them that most people know one version, they don't know mine. So it's important that, I'm And he said, don't say that. Why? Well, in a more diplomatic way, I told him that I didn't like to be called that. The answer I gave you is because the pastor is not a title. It's not an academic title, it's not a postgraduate title. It's a profession.

It's a profession of a person who, in a very altruistic way, to He should be willing to give his life for the people who follow him. And that his example is the best to follow. That's why I don't accept, or I'm not, it's not that I don't accept, I don't feel good. First, because I'm not doing that job, that job, I'm not doing that job, that job, because it's such a beautiful title, so lovable, that I don't deserve at this moment to be called that. José, tell us a little bit about who José was before being cataloged by the press as the pastor of chinchina bueno que clara algo yo yo soy de santa rosa aunque soy peregrino si

vivía en santa rosa el suceso contes yo en una vereda chinchina por eso se habla de chinchina pero realmente soy santa rosa o vivía en santa rosa bueno jose es es el menor de los hombres de or lived in Santa Rosa. Well, José is the youngest of the men in an eight-member family. Someone who, throughout his life, has striven to move forward, to work, a very hard hard working man, tireless, committed to the cause. I have always liked to help.

How was that home that you remember from your childhood? in France. I have always told them. The eight of us live here. My parents also live here. Unfortunately we grew up in a dysfunctional home. My parents separated when I was 10 years old. They separated 33 years ago. And from then on, we lived very apart.

My brothers, from San Viguence, each one of us looked for their future. The older ones, the younger ones, my sister and I, we stayed with my mother. I was What was he dedicating himself to? Well, at 11 years old, at the age of 11, after my parents separated, after the economy, my mother decided to send me to work at a farm.

Because I didn't have the means to study, I didn't have the means to support myself in a village that we lived in, in Santa in a town that we lived in Santa Rosa. We came to live in Santa Rosa. We are from Aguadas Caldas. But for that time we came to live in Santa Rosa. And I came to live with a cousin of mine.

He and his wife. And the wife was pregnant. And there I started to work. I started working there. I started working the field as a worker. Even though I was a child, I was already working the field. I had already been working the field in Aguadas since I was 10 years old. But at 11 years old I had to do it to survive, to move forward.

Because I started working. I worked in the field until I was 13. After 13 I went to live in Pereira with a sister of mine who lived there. Married. The oldest. The oldest in the family. me I was the one who did everything. I bought the food, took the groceries,

I did the laundry, I attended the tables.

And well, now you're in your teens, how are those love relationships going?

Well, at my teens, well, I needed to take them to church when I was 11 years old. It's important. My cousin is a Christian. They started to take me to church. And from the age of 11, I started attending a Christian church. I'll leave the name.

At 16, I fell in love with a beautiful girl when I was 16 years old. She was my first girlfriend, or my only girlfriend. I was in love with her for many years, even though she didn't give me the side, as they say. But finally things happened, we got married, I was 22 years old. So six years after I looked at her. Yes, we got married. After a year of dating, we got married.

We had two children. Two beautiful children. We had a ten-year relationship. That unfortunately broke.

Why did it break?

Well, basically the trigger was infidelity.

Yours? Mine and the last one was Eche.

And there, were you still attending church or were they a little far away?

Let's see, it happens very often that when people who attend the congregation go through such situations, because of shame, because of grief, they stop attending. They isolate themselves, or rather isolate themselves. Many times, when people fail, they become stigmatized, they are pointed out, and that makes one make the decision to isolate themselves.

In some cases, I don't say in all, but generally people end up retiring from congregations because the signaling is very difficult, very destructive. And yes, to I distinguished her being still married. Being still married, she was very young. I distinguished her by her looks. But in time, things in life made us a bridge. One of those things that a friend introduces you to a friend. That's how it happened.

I had already seen it, I didn't have her in mind, but someone introduced her to me. Someone introduced us to a friend of the two, a wife of a pastor.

When you become a voice within the church, beyond being an assistant or a fellow church member, or a person who assists there, when do you preach the word?

Well, interesting question, Kevin. Since I was 16, I started to stand out in the religious field. I am a singer and preacher. cantante y predicador. Desde mis 16 años empecé a meterme por ahí por ese lado. Cantaba y predicaba. Tenía aspiraciones por allá a mis 20 años empezaron mis aspiraciones ministeriales, a llegar a la posición de un pastor. Pero a the separation with my first wife, all her dreams were shattered.

Because the organization for which she worked and attended had in its internal rules that a divorced person could not be part of the ministerial body, the pastoral body. in and I said, she's my wife, because I still do it, at least on paper. I told her my thoughts. My dreams were still there, but there were some who told me they couldn't go on. I told her, within the organization we are in, I can't aspire. My thoughts are to start working alone. aspirar. Mis pensamientos es empezar a trabajar solo. En palabras más textuales,

abrir una iglesia, como para que el público pueda entender. Abrir una iglesia con todo lo que eso conlleva. Así empezamos, sí, después de que nos casamos, a I had organized a space in my house, a first level space, some rooms to help the street dwellers. We had some guys there for a while.

And you, when you met this new couple, your current wife, as you say, she already had a daughter?

Yes, the girl was five years old when I distinguished them, when we formalized the home. Inside my heart was the desire to welcome the girl and make her part of my family. She didn't have a father's last name, only her mother's. And I was the one who voluntarily proposed to give her my last name so that the girl wouldn't grow up without a paternal figure. How did that coexistence of living together start? Well, yes, the living together was beautiful.

It was a beautiful relationship, like all relationships. I think that a home where there are no arguments, where there are no friction, because it's a fit. I'm older than her, she came with a trajectory, she was still very young, I have been nine years. But it was very beautiful, we work chasing the same dream, the same goal. How did the little girl behave? the youngest. because at that time we lived in Dos Quebradas. I took her to school. There was no difference.

There was no difference between my children and her. And it was something that, although my children were already grown up, it was something that I made very clear to them, because the boys always try to show jealousy, but I defended her. I made it very clear to the whole family that she was going to be part of the family that had the same rights. I didn't allow my older, would run over her.

As she grew up, that relationship was transformed.

There is an answer that I have not finished explaining or commenting on. You asked me the question about how the pastoralism came about. Can I finish that? Of course. So, after we worked on the foundation, we already had the project of starting to work on the religious theme. In fact, with the street dwellers we were doing the religious theme,

but it was a foundation. We moved to Santa Rosa in 2019. We moved to Santa Rosa with the objective of starting to formalize the religious theme, the church. It was there that we started to do the evangelistic work. We set up a small room inside the same house and we were working there since 2019. In those days the pandemic came, the famous pandemic.

That was thrown behind a lot of the work we had done. We did work through social media, but the work through social media is planting. In social media it is planting and others collect, which is basically what you do. You work but you don't know who is going to benefit from the what you do. You work, but you don't know who will benefit from the work you do. That affected us a lot, the pandemic affected us a lot. As a result, the economy declined.

And well, I had to rethink the situation and go back to work. At that time, just getting out of the pandemic, I had to build a construction teacher. I was working on a farm. I told you a while ago, off camera, that I was a construction teacher. It turned out to be a very large house, a farmhouse. And because of the situation, it was an opportunity that I could... But the problem was that, because of the distance, I had to go and live far away.

I had to go to the city, and was an opportunity that I could... but the problem was that from a distance I had to go live practically there, near Cartago Valley. I lived there all week and I would go up on the weekends to Santa Rosa to do the pastoral work. I was like that for two years.

Two years I took building that house. And that affected me a lot because the time I had to develop the ministerial work was already more little. It was basically what I could do between Saturday and Sunday, because on Sunday afternoon I returned to the farm to work. Most people imagined that I had a mega church. Even here people think that I had...

No, we had a very small group. I was alone with two or three people, just doing that pastoral work. As the stepdaughter grew up, did that relationship change or strengthen? Yes, yes, it is natural. It is natural that when one is already a big boy, he begins to see the world from another point of view. She kn knew that I wasn't the father.

So she wasn't aware?

As such... Let's see, the kids see the world from a different point of view. She called her grandfather dad, but as she grew up, she started to explain to her that he was not the father, but the grandfather and she had to understand that, it was very difficult for her, she cried because she did not understand, she did not understand

she did not understand that, how so? Well, that was the figure of the grandfather, then I tried to enter to fill that figure or that void of the father. She knew that I was not the father. She knew who her biological father was. So naturally that generates controversies in the mind of a boy, of a teenager. And also problems of subjection. And yes, after 10 or 11 years, the relationship started to get frictional with her.

Which is something natural.

But it got frictional because she found out that weren't the father? Or for what reason?

Let's see, I think there are several things. One is what I was saying a while ago. Knowing that someone isn't my father, that he isn't that figure, I think it's very possible. It's difficult, but it's possible. I think it's the relationship between the father and the son. I think it's the relationship between the father and the son. I think it's the relationship between the father and the son.

I think it's the relationship between the father and the son.

I think it's the relationship between the father and the son. of a person who raised him who was really his biological father. That is very possible. It is difficult, but it can be done. I think it is something natural. There were things that I did not do well or that I did not do well in that upbringing. And suddenly I wanted to be as rigid with her as I was with my children. I grew up in a rigid home, in a home where yes sir, yes ma'am.

The old people, our parents, those of us who are a little old, we know that they were very strict, very closed to the band and that's how I grew up.

And then you tried to do the same with her?

I tried to do the same with the girl, but it didn't work. And her mother, what did she think of that? No, she supported me. The idea was to raise the girl in a decent way, in a way that we wouldn't have headaches in the future. José, what is happening outside of the normal and common relationship between a stepfather and his stepdaughter? What is that first thought, if I asked you, what is the genesis, what is the beginning of you being sentenced to more than 40 years? I didn't see her as my daughter, but as a mother. And that was basically like the stone in the shoe.

The perception, or the way of looking, or the way of feeling, changes completely. I think that's what makes parents with their children. These kinds of things don't happen, although many have happened. But what makes parents avoid or not feel attracted to their daughters is the way they look at them. It's the way they perceive the relationship. When you stop perceiving the relationship, it's not that you're not my daughter anymore.

When the mind says, well, she's really not my daughter. But she's becoming a woman. So the mind has given another role. The mind works differently.

How long ago did that happen?

I was nine years old. I made a mistake. I made a mistake, I made a mistake Garrafal, that basically was what led us to detonate and the mistake I made was to touch his parts.

Ah, that's it.

Yes, that must be sincere because maybe that has been said or I do not know, I do not know if it will have been said, but if we are going to be frank, we are going to be frank.

Jose, I'm sorry to interrupt you, but I think it's important to ask you some questions while you are telling me everything. Do you tell her this or for some reason does your partner find out?

She found out immediately.

How? The girl told her.

She went and told her? Yes. I accepted. We talked. I made a commitment with her that that would not happen again and that did not happen again.

At that moment, when that first...

Touch, that's the word.

Exactly. Did you know that it wasn't right?

Yes, yes, of course. I knew it wasn't right.

And at that moment, José, did you already practice already a pastor? Yes, yes. At some point, and we're going back to some feligres, I don't know if in your church, I know that in the Catholic Church they confess and all that, but at some point was there a person in your congregation

who told you that they felt something similar? Or at some point, did you tell someone that you felt these things?

No.

Was it a secret between the three of you? Yes.

I think so. Or at least for me. Yes, that was something that was handled internally in the family. It was handled. I'll say it again, it was a commitment that I assumed and that I made. What was that commitment, precisely? That it wouldn't happen again.

That was the commitment.

And your wife accepted to continue with the relationship and the cohabitation of the three?

That's when the cohabitation of the three began to friction.

What did they attribute this to?

Almost every time a situation like this happens, the most normal thing is to ask why. Did you and your wife come to a conclusion?

Well, I'm not going to be very broad in the system or in the information for personal privacy and other people. Let's say that there are antecedents from childhood. in So, things that remain in the mind, things that remain engraved in the mind, that suddenly one as a child does not understand, but that transcends history. What do I want? What do I want so that we can go deeper into the event, and go around the story, something that we must understand, the why. I think the important thing, or what we have talked about, is the why.

The how and the why what happened. I told you that since I was 16 years old, I got into religious stuff. Around 1999, 2000, I think it was 1999, a psychic came to Colombia and he was broadcasted through national channels. canales nacionales este hombre notice o mucha gente en colombia no recuerdo cuál fue la canal que hizo esto fue una de las de las dos canales que habían nacionales en ese tiempo

y yo estoy involucrado en un grupo de oración a mis 17 años trabajaba era un grupo de apoyo en un grupo espiritual pero de in a group of prayer. At 17 years old I was working. It was a support group, a spiritual group. But suddenly they make a call to the sister, who was the leader of the group. And the sister says to me,

José, come with me to such and such part that they called me that something is happening. I went with her. And when we got to that house there were two teenagers possessed. Possessed by demonic spirits. People were scared, they were upset because the girls were watching the TV show and they were doing what the psychic told them to do.

When they stopped thinking, the girls lost control. Their voices changed, their appearance changed. And they were possessed by demons. When we arrived in Algarabía, we gathered a group of brothers there and did something called liberation. In the religious part it is called liberation, in the secular part it is called exorcism. I clarify the terms for those who do not know.

That happened that night and the girls were released. conozcan. Eso sucedió esa noche y bueno las muchachas fueron liberadas y ya después fue que indagamos que era lo que había pasado y nos contaron la historia. A raíz de eso en esa zona hubieron muchos casos similares. Entonces me vi involucrado en un grupo de liberación o de exorcism, without asking for it and without wanting it. That brought me many spiritual problems. Because I'm not talking about one or two cases.

I'm talking about multiple cases where we had to make a release in that year, and in later years as well, but I'm talking especially about that year, 1999, when there was a lot of work.

After that first episode with the minor, you told us that that made the coexistence start to fragment.

What started to happen inside your home? is the why, the before. It is necessary to know that background, which is what people don't know. As a result of those liberations, in a way I was committed, I was marked, I was a white man, a Diana of the forces of evil. To the point that I had a spiritual war from that, from my 17 years until now,

a marked spiritual war that I have fought. There are people who don't believe this, but there are many people who believe it and have experiences. Why am I telling you this?

From that date, I started having episodes where the spirits came to my house and paralyzed my body. Because what these entities do is paralyze your whole body that happens to most many people it happens to many people not many people talk about that others do not believe them and he felt that in that spiritual war is where this issue came in with his stepdaughter or he thinks it was because of what the It was something that happened in my family environment and I got to know it as the years went by.

When that happened to your stepdaughter, were you aware of what you were doing?

How do you describe what he did. Many times they tried to take my child out. My younger child, the little boy. Twice I rescued him from the stairs, we lived on a second floor, and twice I rescued him from the stairs by going down to open the door at night, asleep. And the child would tell me, when I was going slowly, he was carrying him he was carrying him and I was laying down with him and I asked him

where were you going? and he told me that some children were calling me I knew who was behind all this. One day I asked those entities why they were going. What was the objective? Why were they hitting me that way? Or why were they visiting me that way if I wasn't afraid of them?

I wasn't afraid of them. The only thing they could do was paralyze me. If they found me asleep, if they found me awake, they couldn't paralyze me. me I asked them why they were coming and what their objective was. They literally answered, we are going to destroy you. That was the answer. And I was asked, how? They speak to the mind.

They speak to the mind. Just as the only defense of the person is the mind, they also speak to the mind. Shortly after, they went to pick up my first home. to How many episodes and how many situations have I had to live in spiritual war? We would not have enough time to describe each one of them.

José, but that first situation that you lived with your stepdaughter, had you already done it with any other minor?

No, negative, at all. What happens? no negative in absolute case who said a medical the campy's and losses in the family or or or or or como sucede allah la prime air in in premiere talk you come with us a very busy me may be one thing the first touch, let's say.

Several times I got up, tempted. There was a pressure inside me that pushed me, that forced me. Several times I got up and went up close to her bed and I stopped. And I went back her bedside and I stopped. I went back to bed. That happened many times,

where I woke up excited. Something I want to highlight is that from a time, every time these entities arrived, something happened to me. un tiempo cada que llegaban estas entidades algo sucedía en mí y era que me alteraban algo me alteraban a mi juicio me alteraban el tema de la testosterona a mi juicio esto It's my perception. I felt insatiable. Eh, a...

Yes, insatiable in all ways.

Why didn't you feel... or try to feel insatiable with your wife?

I did, but it was insatiable. Twice I consulted the doctor twice, seeking help for that. And the answer I got was that medicine worked to increase testosterone, not to reduce it. The scientific developments they had or what they focused on was increasing the testosterone in the man

rather than reducing it. That was the answer.

And maybe, suddenly, obviously her first home had ended up being unfaithful. But why did the focus go to her stepdaughter, if maybe in the environment there could be adult women?

Yes, it was something I didn't understand. And it was something I fought for for a long time.

To be in another vocation?

No, I yo me levantaba. Les aclaro. Varias veces me levanté en las noches. Antes y después. Tentado, motivado,

o sea, impulsado, por ir a acceder a a... Pero tenía esa guerra. Luchaba contra eso. I had that war, I fought against it. I didn't get up the first night and go.

Many times, before it happened, I battled with it. My wife didn't know. And even after I made the commitment, after what happened, and I made the commitment, no lo sabía y aún después después de que hice el compromiso después de que sucedió lo que sucedió y le hice el compromiso muchas veces también me levanté impulsado tentado eso si lo sabían ellas eso si lo sabía porque yo

se los comuniqué. José y en qué momento ese pacto se rompió completamente that pact was completely broken.

Well, the pressure continued to increase. That pressure did not fade. Before, on the contrary, it increased. It increased at a pace. And there were things that I asked or tried to be helped internally to solve or alleviate a little bit of that.

I don't want to emphasize it. I don't want to emphasize it for not victimizing more. But unfortunately there was no support that I asked for. The only defense I had was prayer. The problem was that as a result my distance, because of work, the first thing that is lost is, leaves the prayer or abandons that intimacy with God. So the person becomes weak.

I was telling you that this started to feel worse. One, because of the family, and the other because I started to see my daughter, not as my daughter, but as a woman. And you said there were many? Yes.

But there was something in my head, something began to resonate in my head that it had to be her. I fought against that and there was something that hammered me, it began to hammer me. In the year 2025, at the beginning of the year, that is, the tragedy, let's say, began in January, more or less in January 2025. That's when the tragedy began, January 2025. Because I started... that attraction, that anxiety, It was not normal. I am an old man.

I have lived in two houses. I have also had slips. The problem is when I start to feel for myself is I consulted the doctor and my wife. We talked. I investigated. I even investigated. I investigated voluntarily. What could I do to reduce those testosterone levels, to receive that anxiety, that attraction, because it was not normal.

Before April 29, did an important event happen? 29 de abril Paso algún hecho importante

No el hecho más relevante digámoslo así el hecho más relevante no sé si habrán hecho bulla de eso Pasó No, sé septiembre octubre del 24 no sé por ahí no eso pues no fue importante para mí I don't know, September, October 24th, I don't know, that wasn't important to me. We were, in a way, chatting, I don't remember that we were talking to the girl,

but we were chatting. We were chatting, and then... I don't know when we said, the girl showed me her tongue. What we said, she took out her tongue. I was like, hmm. I felt a tug of war with that action,

and what I did was I got closer to her, and I said, That was my reaction at that moment. That brought me a lot of problems. I don't know why I did it. It's not that it was my inclination. For me it was something insignificant like getting close and kissing you on the cheek.

But at that moment I kissed her on the lips. That's to answer the question if something else happened.

And she told you?

Yes, of course.

And what did her wife say?

No, well, that affected, that relationship a lot, because that was something insignificant for me. Something I did unpremeditatedly, it was not something I planned, it was I didn't think about it, I don't know why. It was a surprise, it was a sudden thing that happened. It was my reaction to what the girl did to me. For me, that was disrespectful. For me, that was disrespectful.

So, it was like returning a respect, basically. That's what I feel in that reaction.

Before April 29th, I imagine that before that happened, you already had an idea of what was going to happen on April 29th.

Yes.

Why did that idea begin? How is it made? Why does it take place?

Why the decision? Well, I told you that at the beginning of the year, in the year 2025, in January, In January 2025, that idea began to be woven. My conclusion is that there were two weapons that were used against us. I'm going to start talking like this because I feel that what happened on January 29th

was not exactly my decision. And that's what I want us to get to, or at least that's what I want you to know. It was not my decision. I want us to get to... or at least that's what I want them to know. It wasn't my decision. It was an attack, indiscriminate, by force,

and I did it... I did it knowingly, in the trial. When I accepted the charges, I told the judge, I said, I accept my... I accept my guilt. I accept the facts, but I want to put it on the ground that my mind was co-acted.

It was not José who thought. I had a battle, I had a strong battle, where in my mind I had to... I'm going to tell you the word that was in my mind, the one that was constantly repeated, she has to be... That was the word that was in my mind.

In your thought, or in that plan, in I fought. Because, as I was saying, my only weapon was prayer. Did I lose it? Yes. Did I lose the ability to pray? Yes, I lost it. I remember that in those months, this week I was meditating on that, and I remember that in those months I was telling the Lord, I said, sir, sir, don't let this happen. I'd rather you take my life away before I do what I did.

Because that was already in my mind.

When do you make the decision?

The decision is made on Monday. The incident happened on Tuesday, 29. The decision was made on Monday, 28.

José, what happens on that April 29?

There are several questions in one. I will answer them. In the last three months, and no one knows this, I started to fight not only with my wife, but with my family. And not only her, but my wife. There was an attack in my mind. I didn't understand it and I fought with it. I told my wife, I love her.

With the girl I had a friction and I told her, one of the weapons was hatred. Because the girl created hatred towards me. And a hatred was created from me towards the girl as well. It was something terrible. There came a moment in those last months where what I breathed was hatred for the girl.

Something that I couldn't control, I didn't know how to explain it to them, but it was a hate. I saw the girl and what I felt for her, that love was gone. That love I wanted to give her as a father. There was a hate. And I fought for several months with that hatred. I fought for several days with that. There was something in my head that told me to kill my wife and daughter.

Literally. And I refused. I refused. No. No. I love my wife. The daughter contemplated the idea, but my wife, no. I didn't accept that. But she hammered me.

I'm not a bad man. I've never fought in my life. I want to make it clear. I don't know what it is to grab me by the hair with anyone. In all it clear. I don't know what it is to grab me by the hair and hit me with a knife. In all my life I don't know what it is to fight. Now, much less to take out the strength to go and take the shit out of the person I love the most.

What was it that was going around in my head? That like the girl hated me, like the girl wanted to separate us, that I had to take her out of the way. That was the information. I opened my eyes, I slept a little, I opened my eyes and the first thing that was there was that hammer in my head.

You told us that this happened on a Tuesday, which is a day of school, a common a normal school day.

What happened there? Why did she end up being with you that day?

The pressure lasted several months. That pressure lasted several months and I battled with that pressure for several months. It was Monday, April 28th. We got up to work, as usual. We had a harepa factory. We started work at 3 in the morning. In the middle of work, I told my wife that on Tuesday, which was a very common day,

we would go to the farm where the events took place. It was almost always on Tuesday, during the week. Tuesday and Saturday were the only two days we could go some work for the farm. And we hadn't been going for many days. We hadn't been going for many days because of our occupations. So there were some chores to do at the farm. And on Monday, talking to my wife in the morning,

I told her, my love, tomorrow I will accompany you for a while. I told them that I didn't have time to go to the farm because we didn't have support, human talent to help us. So we had to do the work ourselves. But since we had already found someone to help us, the loads had already been lightened. And that Monday I told her, seeing that they could work without me, I told her, tomorrow Tuesday I will help you until a certain time and then I will go to the farm.

That was something very usual. We agreed on that. My wife agreed. But in the course of the day, the machination began. This is your opportunity. She started machinating it. What I had been fighting for months, was seen as the opportunity. Let's put it this way.

I got some things I needed to take to the farm. And basically, the whole plan... Yes, we have to call it a plan because it is a plan, and that's how we humans understand it. The whole plan was developed between Monday, during the day of Monday.

The plan that battled in my head for months was developed. Some people say that I had planned it, even my wife told me that I didn't. One thing is that I thought about it, one thing is that I battled with it for months, weeks. Another thing is that he has calculated it in millimeters.

It is said, it is said, many things I have heard out there, that I wonder, because what I know about what is said on social networks, is because people ask me the question. What I saw on social networks is this and they ask me questions. But that Monday night, I proposed to the girl to take her... Those were lies, they were total lies...

to take her to see a house. That was the information. I invented a house that I wanted to buy. And that's how I convinced the girl that day I wouldn't go to school, but that she would go with me to see the house that day, Tuesday. And that's where I took the girl, the farm where the events took place.

On April 29, how did your wife not find out that you were taking her? She was supposed to be at school. How did she get there?

She was walking. She was going to school on her own. I wanted to remember that she was waiting for me in the same place I was picking her up. Did she pick you up? Yes. Did she get in the car?

Yes.

What did you talk about?

No, the information was that we were going to see a house. During the way we didn't talk about anything. During the way we didn't talk about anything until we got to a point where I got out of the car. to and I didn't want her to resist. I didn't want to hurt her if she didn't resist. She doesn't have a trace that I have generated in the whole process.

Jose, you were there with your stepdaughter. When did you realize, or because you left her alone and she ran away, how was that moment?

What I was telling you was something I didn't understand. I'm an expert in ropes. In my job, I told you I was a master of the art for many years. Periodically, every year I had to do something called the renovation of the height course. muchos años. Periodicamente cada año tocaba hacer algo que llamaba renovación del curso de alturas. Me tocaba, yo tenía el curso de alturas y cada año lo tenía que actualizar. Yo no me explico cómo, yo lo tenía en los pies y de las manos.

Le había puesto una suerte al cuello, la que le initially put on him, because it was the easiest way to intimidate. She, since I made the stop on the way to the farm, she took the bandage on her neck. She, well...

You held her before you got to the farm?

Yes, of course. I put the bandage on her neck and I held her hands. mmm we had two beds. I took her out of the bed. What happened happened. I took her out. And... And I went to clear my mind. To clear my mind.

What I had in my mind was that I was going to disappear. There is something curious, Kevin and Michelle, something that I can't understand.

And I want the audience to know this. Even though I remember everything, that is in my memory, I cannot say that I do not remember at all. I didn't have the capacity to master what I was doing. I didn't have the capacity to determine if it was good or bad. I didn't have that consciousness.

It is said that you play Christian music at full volume.

That is not true. Because it was 8 in the morning. I did play music, but not at full volume.

But it was Christian music.

Yes, of course. I didn't use any other Christian music. It was the only music I used.

There is even a photograph that started to move on social media. music Kuso Now photography a tambien que empezo a morse en redes sociales y es que a la fin cabía un hueco

de casi un metro de profundidad

Si momento hizo el hueco ya lo tenía listo la la finca la estamos a condition ando No solamente un hueco habían varios huecos the farm was being conditioned. Not just one hole, there were several holes.

I was building a septic system. I already had two tanks installed, I needed two more to install. One of those holes, or that famous hole, which is said to have been used for so many things, that I have been asked so, or that famous hole, which is said to be so many things,

that I have been asked a lot of questions about that hole. That hole was to bury a 240-liter pot, which is what in my project was going to work as something called a trap of fats that is part of a septic system for the treatment of the residual waters of the house.

Jose started circulating a video of that day.

Of the mugs.

Apart from the mugs, there is a video where you see the minor running away and you chasing

her. Yes.

The caneca is a fake. The caneca is a fake. I was asked if I was going to put her alive. But at the bottom there was a drainage ditch that I had made, it was a filter, a stone filter that I was making because I had a problem of water accumulation in a terrain and I wanted to make a filter to drain that water and the thought was to hide it in that ditch.

Breathes or clears away and when it comes back, what happens?

When I was coming home to the cabin, I was at the the house, to the cabin. I was at the bottom of the field. I had even called my wife. I had called her because the goal was for her to be there later. We had agreed that she would go later with a nephew of mine. They were riding their bikes. on I realized that the girl jumped out of the window and ran away, which is what appears in the cameras.

I had a video camera there in the FICA, I had my own video camera and videos of the different cameras that the neighbors have. Of course, I left and the reaction, I think it was a normal reaction to run after her. But because of the advantage she had, I couldn't stop her. And further down, some neighbors helped her. My question is how? How did she get out? I don't know. How did she get out? I don't know.

I'll say it again, I ask myself that question. How did an expert man in the ropes, how did he get out? I can't understand that part.

And there were neighbors who knew him? Yes, of course. Who asked him what he was doing?

That... if they asked me or not... Well, the one who asked me was the lady who helped the... I don't know what to say. The only thing I knew was that when the car fell into the hands of the neighbors, I was the one who was in danger. And you got into your car and the car got stuck?

I got out of my car, yes, I got out of my car

and I found another vehicle. I had to turn around and the car got stuck. And you left the car? Yes, because I wasn't able around and the car disconnected. And you left the car? Yes, because I couldn't get the car out because it had a tire. The tire was in a hole full of mud, so it skidded and I couldn't get out of the car.

So I left the car and went, the chase, on motorcycles, people on the road, people on foot. So basically my escape was from the neighborhood, from the same neighbors of the farm. vecindad de vida de de los mismos vecinos del cacerío y cuando lo descubren que pasa

bueno

digamos así que fue en la tarde y mi hijo se me escribió qué horas eran no lo sé yo mantenía el teléfono It was in the afternoon, my son wrote to me. I don't know what time it was, I had my phone off. But at some point my son wrote to me and said, I found out what happened and he said, turn yourself in to the police because people are going to kill you. And well, I didn't communicate with them, but I ran away from the community all day.

In the afternoon, they locked me up. They made me a lock-up, as we call it. I saw myself with no where to run. When they found me, they locked me up and beat me. But one of them opposed it. I remember those words. He said, don't get your hands dirty with this.

I don't know how many with this one, it's not worth it. José has already been sentenced to 43 years and 6 months. How does it feel when you have to accept this time? Well, I think that... there are no words for that. I think that... there is no way to describe it because... the only thing I can do, or with what I manage that information or that pressure, is that I live one day at a time.

I live today, I don't live tomorrow because it's not there yet. If I started to think about those 43 years, I would have already realized that, in fact, just arriving at the Dorada prison, I was thinking grateful that, in fact, having just arrived in the prison in Dorada, I thought about my family, about the pressure I lived under, about everything that was said to me, about everything that was done to me. Even here, that was in my mind. But God is good and gave me the strength to recognize and accept the mistakes.

What do you think of all this? Now that you are facing the consequences, that a media outing, that you were already convicted, what reflection do you have of all this, José?

There are many. There are several reflections and it is worth saying one. Jose. Christianos todos todos cristianos sabe que lucha tiene y contra que nos enfrentamos el apóstol pablo fue muy claro en decir no tenemos escribiendo la los efes no tenemos lucha contra carne y sangre sino contra huestes no es contra uno dos son huestes espirituales de maldad en las regiones celestes y el aconseja que nos tenemos que preparar para eso y vestirnos de la armadura entonces uno de los and he advises us to prepare for that and to dress in the armor. So, one of the things left is to remind the Christian people

that no matter how high we are, no matter how long our journey is, no matter how much of a pastor we are, no matter how much wisdom we have, we are still vulnerable to the forces of evil and that any carelessness we have is taken advantage of. The Bible says that the devil walks around like a roaring lion, looking for someone to devour. That is the battle.

Paraphrasing a verse from the Bible, it talks about all these mundane, bad things that make you face God, come out of the heart of man.

Yes.

What do you think of this? Did this really come out of your heart do you still think that there was something else?

Thank you for the question Kevin. Look, what is the heart of man? It is not this, it is the mind. It is a part of the brain that handles our emotions, that handles what we are, what we think and what we feel. The heart of man is not a member, it's a system. I can't understand how so much evil could be in my heart in such a short time. And today I thank God. I thank God that he has released him.

I thank God. Because if he hadn't released him, another story would have happened today. because if the rope hadn't come loose, another story would have happened today. So I thank God. I feel grateful to God that the rope came loose.

For me, it was a divine intervention that it came loose,

because otherwise it wouldn't be here Commentary O's e por supuesto suscriban se a nuestro canal de youtube para que podemos seguir contando estas historias nos vemos en un próximo

puedo decir Porque el objetivo gracias gracias por el objetivo es que O mio objetivo es que esta información llegue a muchos corazones a muchas vidas I hope this message reaches many hearts, many lives. And as I was saying, you asked me what is left, what teaching is left. I left many. One, I referred to the Christian people. Do not lower your guard.

Do not forget that we depend on God and that without Him we are nothing. I want to invite those men of God who are battling in a similar situation to come to I'm going to tell you a story. I was in a situation similar to yours. I was looking for help. I didn't look for help. I looked for professional help, in the part where I told you my wife insisted that we seek psychological help,

well, I don't really believe in psychology. But if I had sought spiritual help, or at least part of this information would have come to light, this would not have happened. So the important thing is that anyone who is in this situation should not remain silent. Sometimes we remain silent because we are afraid of what they will say,

because we are afraid of statements, because we are afraid of what can happen to us legally. But I am sure that if it had been spoken, if it had been expressed, the legal consequences would be much less than the ones I'm going through today. So invite those people who are going through similar situations, don't stay silent, I want you to look for emotional, psychological, spiritual, moral, and family support so that you don't get into an accident like I did, unfortunately.

And I want to tell the entire Colombian people that I think this is important. To the Colombian people, to my wife's family, to my daughter's family, I ask you to forgive me. This is something that shouldn't have happened.

No.

Something that hurts me in the soul. That at no time do I feel heroic I've never been a hero or a victor. I feel like it was a big mistake. It shouldn't have happened. And I want to tell all the Colombian people who manage to see us that they should not forget that I am a human being

of flesh and blood like any of you exposed to failure. And we are faced with forces that we know little about and that we do not dominate. And anyone

is a victim. They can be a victim of all this and of worse things. and of worse things.

José, thank you for your time and see you all in the next episode.