Harry ‘Humiliated’ After Australia Axes Invictus Funding - While Meghan’s ‘Rebranding Jam’

This is the Princess of Wales' most important, most significant trip since she's been a working royal.

This is the start of something big for Catherine.It's very much like Diana.

This comes just a few weeks after Harry and Meghan were in Australia.

Buckingham Palace have seen Harry and Meghan almost park their tanks on their lawn.They're firing back.

Meghan also has made headlines.She's relaunched as ever.again.

The main problem is Megan herself.

The government in Australia has axed funding for Invictus Australia.

It's humiliating for Invictus and Harry.This is the first domino to tumble.

Welcome to Royal Exclusive.I'm Bronte Coy standing in for Matt Wilkinson this week.But don't worry, he will still be joining us from Italy, where he's reporting on Princess Catherine's royal tour.Also on the show, Meghan Markle is relaunching her lifestyle brand again, and Harry's Invictus Games has faced a major setback.Plus, should Andrew Mountbatten -Windsor get taxpayer -funded security back after a frightening alleged encounter near Sandringham?And Sarah Ferguson finds herself linked to yet another bad news.

Bad boy for life.I'm Bronte Coy, and joining me to unpack it all are Charles Ray, former Royal Editor at The Sun, and Jack Royston, Royal Correspondent for Newsweek.And from Italy, we have Matt, who also joins us now.Hello, Matt.How are you doing?

Ciao.Yeah, very good.Thank you.

We've got a big moment for the Princess of Wales and the reason you're in Italy.She will be kicking off her first overseas work trip in four years.What is the mood like on the ground there?Is there a lot of excitement?

Bronte, you know me, I don't go into unnecessary hyperbole, but I genuinely think that this is the Princess of Wales' most important, most significant trip, not just since she's been Princess of Wales, but since she's been a working royal.This is her comeback.We haven't seen her for four years going abroad.This has been telegraphed that she will actually go to Italy and it's a major project.but this is a big deal.I'm not just saying that because I'm in Italy and I'm trying to get loads of coverage, this is an absolutely huge deal, that this is her comeback.

I went to a briefing last night and it went on for a bit, and I've got my notes here in front of me, and the aide that was giving the note, was giving the brief, used the word global six times, including saying about this is her global mission.And what I took from that is this isn't just Reggio Emilia, this isn't just the Reggio Emilia approach that she's come to study.This is the beginning of almost like a global tour, if you like, for the Princess of Wales, where she will be taking this framework that she's doing here in Italy around the world, all sorts of different destinations.So you asked me about what the atmosphere is like on the ground.I think there's excitement, there's nervousness, but I think there's a genuine idea that this is the beginning of something new.It's the end of the very difficult four years she had.

And today, when she arrives in that square, it will be the beginning of something new.And I'll tell you what else, while you've asked me about the atmosphere, 300 Italian journalists have applied for media accreditation to see the Princess of Wales in Reggio Emilia.That is unheard of.They've had to reduce it down to about 30.They've left lots of people disappointed.But that is the level of interest in the Princess of Wales being here in Italy.

Wow, 300.And there you are with a front row seat, Matt.We're very lucky to have you.I'm looking forward to hearing all the details once it gets underway.But you've just mentioned there and emphasised how significant this trip is.And it has been four years since she was away.

We are seeing a new Catherine now.How do you think her approach to these work trips herself has changed since the last one she did back in 2022?

Yeah, I think there's going to be renewed confidence.I think that's what I'm expecting.We're told that she's enthused and energetic, but I think it's just being confident.Remember, she's not here with William, and I think that's incredibly important, the fact that she's here with him.on her own with her own cause.Sometimes when they go abroad I think most recently they went to Boston together they kind of shared some of the jobs shared some of the interests Catherine did some some engagements that related to her William did some engagements that related to Earthshot but this is all about her she doesn't have William here you know, carrying out any engagement.

So it's 100 % all about, as I say, energetic, infused and this is going to be the start of something, I hope.

And look, there's a natural comparison here.I'm interested to get all of your takes.Obviously, this comes just a few weeks after Harry and Meghan were in Australia.Now, we've got Catherine is always at the top of the popularity polls when it comes to the Royals, and here she is with a big sort of comeback work to her.And we've just seen Meghan, you know, out there relaunching herself in a way in Australia.Do you think the palace pays attention to what the other Royals, namely Harry and Meghan, are doing?

Do you think they will have watched this tour at all and it will have any impact?

Yes.

There we go.

Yes, 100%.100%.I mean, I think this trip was not hastily arranged, but I don't think it was something that was on the radar six months ago, when they often planned the diary for royals.You went to Australia, Bronte.You saw what happened out there.You had a front row on everything that happened with Harry and Meghan.

You were very lucky.And I remember you saying that maybe they were kind of unapologetic in the fact that this is the way they were going to go forward.I mean, I think... that Kensington Palace and Buckingham Palace, but Kensington Palace significantly have seen Harry and Meghan almost park their tanks on their lawn and they're firing back.I mean, we're in a cold war at the moment.It might get a hot war at some stage, but I think they have expedited this trip to Italy rather quickly because they want to roll out the big guns and they want to kind of lay down a marker and, you know, fire back.

That's it.You are not prone to that.Matt, so they were some big phrases for you.And to Charles, what is it in this trip that you think you're looking forward to seeing the most from Catherine?

Well, just the fact that, as Matt says, that she's back on the international scene.And I agree completely with Matt that this is the start of something big for Catherine.And, you know, we've come to an end, if you like, of the battle that she's had for the last four years and we're now moving forward and I'm hoping we're going to see bigger and greater things from her particularly on the international stage I mean as Matt said you know it's all very well her being with William but she's when she's on her own you know she captures the imagination and the people's hearts that's very much like Diana I mean Matt talked about 300 journalists photographers in Italy, you know, wanting accreditation.Well, this is back to the Diana days.This is what it was like in those days.Everybody clamoured.

Everybody wanted to be in that square.Everybody wanted to be in that street for Diana.And it's exactly the same for Catherine.And best of luck to her.And I'm really pleased that she's back again.

And you did mention there, of course, William won't be travelling with her.This is Catherine on her own, working in an area that has been her baby for so many years.But why do you think that decision has been made specifically, Jack, for it to be just her this time?

Well, I think the whole thing is focused on her early years project.This is actually the second time she's done this.It's her second solo visit.Her first one was Denmark back in 2022.It was a little before Boston.And then it was a similar focus.

She went out, she visited a forest school.So that is one approach to preschool care, is forest school.you know you take them on out into the woods and you show them what it's like to be in nature and they learn in this like really great environment.

In a way it really is the perfect relaunch back into these work trips for her as for all the reasons you've just described.And something that's interesting with Catherine I mentioned earlier her popularity that hasn't always been the case of course but certainly inrecent years, she's extremely popular.People love to see her out and about and they're very supportive of the work she's doing.And again, to compare it to the criticisms that Megan receives when she was out doing a similar style tour, I'm wondering what do you think it is about Catherine that connects so well with people, that is landing so well with the public?

Personally, I just think that she's got the gift of what Diana had and that was the affinity that she had with normal people and going out there and being, you know, a working mum, meeting other working mums and meeting normal members of the public and putting them at their ease.I mean, I just think that's the beauty of what she does and how she does it.

Yeah, absolutely.And she also, I mean, in terms of how she's actually approaching the tour, compared with how Megan approached her tour of Australia, Matt, what are the key differences for you?

Well, I just want to get back to that point there, just asking Charlie first, you know, why people kind of, you know, appreciate Katherine more, or possibly they do to Megan, is because she doesn't moan as much.And that's the key thing.There are no kind of Netflix dramas.When she had, everyone was bullying her online, or when, you know, when she was away, getting treatment for cancer.She didn't come out and complain.And I think that's what people like in Britain and probably, you know, around the world.

You know, she is very stoic and she does get on with everything.And I think people appreciate that.

How do you think her approach to the tour compares with how Megan approaches when she's out visiting overseas countries?

Yeah, 100 percent.The difference is, although Jack just pointed out earlier, because although I was talking about this is a comeback, this is, you know, her returning to work and coming up with this kind of global alliance.It is all about this one single cause which is her golden thread throughout her career.we hear.And this is about her early, early years.We know what we, it's a long path for her.

It's her life's work.And I think she approaches that way that she's very well read up in the early years.It's something that she knows all about the Reggio Emilia approach.That's why she wants to come out here.I think the differences with Megan, I think maybe you experienced in Australia, it's just scattergun.You don't really know which direction to try one thing and then jumps on to the next thing.

I think with with Catherine, it does feel laser focused that the early years are her baby, so to speak.And one of the things they said in the briefing yesterday is we talk about a global alliance.Jack was talking there about the trip to Copenhagen, and I think this is a hop from Copenhagen.the Copenhagen experience that she witnessed and then, you know, on to other countries.So I think we sympathise more with her because, you know, she doesn't moan so much, but also we know the direction that she's going and we can be brought along with that journey, whereas Megan is all over the place.

You mentioned their laser focus and sort of the long term vision.When it comes to another royal there is with Harry, that's a very similar thing with the Invictus Games, of course, the Invictus Foundation.And this leads me into some breaking news we have now.It is from Australia.That is completely unrelated to me being here today.But the government in Australia has axed funding for Invictus Australia from this year's federal budget as the organisation's chief executive has urged the government to reconsider this decision.

This is all sort of happening just as we speak, as we go to filming.Now, I've spoken to sources close to Harry, and of course, they're shocked, they say.You know, they're blindsided by this, as was the organisation in Australia.Jack, what does this mean for Invictus?Could other countries follow suit?

Well, I think that's the big worry here, is that this is the first domino to tumble.And one problem that the Invictus Games has, and it's actually quite a good problem for the world, is that our armies are involved in fewer wars, which means that there are fewer kind of new people coming in who need these rehabilitative therapies, which doesn't change the fact that there are many people who are still receiving them from overseas.in Iraq, Afghanistan.But if Australia is actually just the first country to do this, and a whole load of others follow suit, then that could create real financial problems.for the Invictus Games.But there's also another slight angle to it, which is that obviously Harry and Meghan have literally just come back from this big tour of Australia where they're supposed to be warming up Australians and showing how relevant they are to the Australian audience.

And it really kind of takes some of the wind out of their sails that as soon as they've left, not only has this decision been made, but also it's been made with very little consultation by the sound of it.So they've basically just had, they clearly feel they've had the rug pulled out from underneath them.

Yes, the term blindsided was used.And as you mentioned, In Australia, so many, so much of the engagements, they were focused on that Invictus community.I was there.It was a very warm and inviting reception.And Harry was clearly in his element as he was speaking to members of that community.Now, in terms of how that relates to something that's coming up here, it's expected that Harry will be coming to the UK for the one -year countdown to Invictus in Birmingham over the summer.

Do you think this will put a renewed sort of significance or importance on him coming here and really, you know, trying to shore up support and promote the event?

The Australia decision there is hugely embarrassing.It's humiliating for Invictus and Harry, and I don't think any attempt to spin it in any other way is going to work.There must be question marks over the funding for Invictus, which is a shame.I've been to two, and I think the work that they do with wounded soldiers is laudable.I think it is wonderful.But their attention will start returning to Birmingham, which is next year.

Who's paying that?I mean, Birmingham Council, this is one for a kind of local news journalist rather than this global show like us, but Birmingham Council are not awash with money.They've had rubbish piling up on the streets.There's been strikes by the bin men.So I do wonder where that's coming from.are going to be looking at this and thinking, hang on, we're paying for this huge Invictus Games tournament in Birmingham, why should I be doing this?

But yeah, it's hugely embarrassing, humiliating.And I've seen the response, Bronte, that sources are saying, and I don't really think that's enough.

Well, moving on now, because obviously, as we've said, this is that was some breaking news.We'll have to watch and see how that all unfolds now.But Megan also has made headlines headlines this week as she's relaunched as ever again.Now, this comes just Charles.This is just over a year after it was first launched to the world.What does a rebrand look like?

What does it mean for the company at this point?

Well, I mean, nothing to be perfectly honest.I mean, she can rebrand as much as she wants.She seems to be changing her mind.One minute she wants to maybe go back and do a Suits film or whatever.Then she's making some jam.Then she's doing other things.

I mean, there isn't any focus.There isn't anything that you could say is a proper, if you like, royal job that she's doing.I know she and Harry want to be half in as a royal and half out as a royal, but what she's doing at the moment is nothing.It's not going to shake the world.It's not going to cause any earthquakes at all.I mean, I can't actually see it being successful.

As well, Jack, you've spoken a lot with PR experts about the branding.I listen to your podcast.And I know over time you have been focused on this.I wonder what the optics are, though, of literally doing a relaunch at this point, though.It's quite a new company still.

Yeah, exactly.Well, it's not just.Yes, exactly.It is partly the fact that it's a new company, but it's also the fact that the challenge the company is facing isn't actually branding.You know, Megan does get a whole load of free publicity because here we are talking about her and so does everybody else.What Megan's lacking is a a product that people feel they need.

to buy.I think she gets a lot of curiosity sales of people who just want to buy the jam, which is the cheapest thing pretty much in the shop.So they get a lot of purchases for that.You can kind of imagine yourself forking out $10 or $12 once just to see what it's like.But she needs a product that is going to really put her business on the map that people feel they have to find out about.With Goop, with Gwyneth Paltrow's, it was her vagina scented candles, which were just so out there and wild that a load of people, you know, really felt like they had to know what it was all about.

With Megan, it's the core product, it's the core offering that her business has that's the issue.And so she needs to work on trying to get, I think, some of those price points down for the candles.You know, they're very, very expensive.She's, you know, selling kind of three jars of honey for like $60 and stuff like that.And so she needs to work on trying to get some of those price points down while keeping the quality and maybe just offering people something that they really have to buy.Because you can buy the King's Jam and you know, it probably isn't super cheap either.

In fact, it was on this show.I picked up a jar the last time I was on here, took it home.We all loved it.It was delicious.Haven't tried Megan's yet.I'd like to if it's offered in Britain.

But you know, why do people have to keep coming back and back and back to her?She might go into, you know, there's been some stories that maybe as ever will start to do fashion.And because some clothes sizes were uploaded onto the site, that could be a good avenue for her, you know, it could be a good option.But she needs to really give people something that demands attention.And that really drives people to go back and back and back to the website.

It is ever so disappointing though, Jack, isn't it?Sorry, Brontë.It is ever so disappointing though, isn't it, that when we were reporting on Megan being in the UK, Jack, we We were told there was this kind of tornado of energy and ideas and excitement and stuff and we're just constantly just rebranding, repackaging a jam.the branding's fine.

There are things that you could fix about the branding.She could be in more of the Instagram photos and stuff like that.She could post on Instagram more regularly.But it's not that it needs a rebrand.Maybe her Instagram needs to be more consistent, more reliable.She needs to be there more often.

But yeah, you can't just endlessly rebrand if the problem isn't the branding.The problem is she needs to have core product that people want to buy.And so constantly repackaging the same thing is not going to make any difference at all.And she actually, you know, she's in a very fortunate position compared to a lot of celebrities.You know, there are a thousand reality TV stars desperately hawking stuff and getting way less attention than Meghan gets.So in a way, like the branding bit of it, she's very lucky.

but she needs to get people in the store buying products.

But isn't that the main problem?I accept and agree with everything you say about the branding, but the main problem is Meghan herself.It's Meghan herself who's not liked, certainly in this country, and from what I can gather from people that I speak to in the States, the popularity of Meghan and Harry is waning as well.So the problem's not the actual branding, it is Meghan herself.

Yeah, and she is now the only figure that's pushing that brand forward of course because we no longer have the Netflix series So it's really all coming from the Instagram account.

Harry's heart's not in it either.You can really tell that Harry is not trying to sell them as a brand.Meghan is trying very well.She's trying quite hard anyway to sell them as a brand.

That would be the end of the world if you got Hardy on television with a pot of jam.

That would be it.That's exactly the kind of thing that he would, I don't think Harry would ever do.But yeah with Meghan, look if Meghan comes up with an incredible idea for something And maybe, you know, maybe it could be a TV show.Maybe she does a Suits reboot, and it goes brilliantly, and people fall in love with it, and they suddenly are like, oh, I just, you wanna see every single episode of it.suit show, then they will naturally start liking Meghan more again.But right now, everything she's doing is kind of vanilla.

It's very safe.It's not pushing the boundaries anywhere.It's not really demanding attention.And she's just doing 100 things kind of fine in an era of society when, you know, fine is just nowhere near good enough.We even, you know, we, you know, Society had never been more inundated with famous people, more inundated with content across social media, competing with YouTube, which is where their target audience was always young people.Young people watch YouTube now.

They don't watch network TV anymore.They barely watch Netflix.They watch YouTube shows, and she's not on YouTube.

And there's been, there's just been such a sort of buzz of speculation around Harry and Meghan, as always, but certainly in the last 12 months, because it did appear quite clear that they've entered this new chapter, and we've seen that with the Australian tour.But with this relaunch, with there being a fair bit of speculation that she may be considering coming to the UK with Harry when he comes, as I mentioned, over the summer for this Invictus event, Do we think that this relaunch is timed as part of that?Do you think that this could all be part of it?Look at Matt, he's considering the prospect if they're coming to the UK.Do you think that this could all be tied in together?

I think Jack's hit the nail on the head.Just constant rebrands.I don't understand the direction.She has to come back here, I think, and start appearing here because Star is on the wane in the U .S.and the jam is getting incredibly boring.

It may well be, you might be right there, Bronte, that they kind of brought these two things together because they wanted to come back to the U .K.I don't think their brand and their star can continue existing just in the U .S.and just in California.We know that Harry wants to come back more.

I think they need to get their security, not saying I want them to get their security, but they need to get their security because they need Meghan back in the UK.That's where all the interest is. I think that's probably potentially where a lot of the money is.And yeah, you might be right.Maybe they've rebranded because they wanted her to come over in the summer, but she has to come back if they're going to succeed.Not forever, but she has to come back every now and again.

And this is where I disagree with you.And I do not believe, I've always said to you, that I do not believe that Meghan will ever come back to this country.Because her coming back here, can you imagine what it would be like for her again to be out on the streets at a job, whether it's a royal job or a jam job or whatever, she'll get booed.And I don't think...

I'm happy to get a jar of jam on it.

That's a lot of money, Matt.

I just don't think that she will be able to cope with the lack of enthusiasm from the British public for her being here.You've just got to look at people and listen to what's being said about Meghan in this country.They don't want her here.Nobody wants her here.

So you're saying she'll never come back?Sorry, go on.Sorry?I said we've got Charles saying she's never coming back.We've got you saying she sort of has to for her business to succeed.Jack, what do you think?

Yes or no?

I think we've been told that she's taking the brand global.And there's only three audiences, markets for that, Canada, Australia, and Britain.So they've done Canada recently.They've done Australia recently.Harry will be doing Britain regularly.But yeah, I mean, she's going to at some point have to come back.

She might want to, if she doesn't, if they don't get it together for her to come for Invictus, then she's got to work out when she's going to be ready to actually launch as ever in Britain.And when that moment comes, she's got to come here onto the ground and launch it.Like, you have to do that.You know, you can't do these things halfway.half -baked, which she does a lot.You know, the compromises in With Love Megan, not doing it in her own kitchen, all of that kind of stuff, killed the show.

And she needs to do it properly.So when she comes to launch in Canada, she needs to be in Canada.When she comes to launch in Australia, she needs to be in Australia.And when she launches as ever in Britain, she needs to come to Britain on the ground, have a launch event, and do it properly the way that any PR professional or marketing professional would tell you to do it.And I think Harry just needs to let the security issue go.I don't think he's going to get the security provision he wants.

You know, he does still have some police protection under certain circumstances.And I don't think he's going to get the round -the -clock protection while in Britain that he's fighting for.And I think he needs to let it go.We've had this, we're probably, you want to talk about it later, but I'm going to bring it in now because it's relevant.But we've had this They're scared with Andrew, with Andrew Mountbatten -Windsor up at Sandringham, and so Harry will probably be thinking, well, that shows how much danger Meghan is in.

So you're saying it's apples and oranges comparing Andrew and Harry.Yes, Matt?

Can I just go back on Jack's earlier point, talking about Meghan going global, because she's been talking about how she walked the longest porch as ever around the world.This goes back to my earlier point.Now we have the Duchess of Sussex and the Princess of Wales going global.For the first time, I mean, I talk about hot war, cold war, whatever.It's the first time, I think, since they were clashing when they were working members of the royal family, that we are going to see them kind of operating globally, moving around the world, grabbing headlines.And I'm going to be there with the popcorn.

We're going to have them.It could be a collision course.Seriously, I think we need to be aware of this.I think it's really important that Jack's pointed out about Meghan's plan to go global in the same time that the Princess of Wales is being told to go global.

But that battle is the difference between a silk purse and a sow's ear, to be perfectly honest.It's an unfair contest.Look, I was all for Meghan when she first came across here.to this country.And we all remember her being in Nottingham on that engagement tour and everything else, and her first royal visits, particularly with the Queen and whatever.She was lauded, and everybody loved her and everything else.

It all started to go wrong when she herself decided that she wanted to get out.And I don't think she's ever going to recover from that personally.

Whether Megan turns up in summer, there is now a jar of jam in it, gentlemen, okay, for this mess.Don't forget that, that's now been on air, we've all said it, let the official record state.I just want to mention one other thing, as I said, Megan's been in the headlines again this week, is The Suits universe is quite a vast one.People love the original Suits series, which is of course what made Meghan famous before Harry.I was a fan, I've got to say, but this is getting a lot of streamed minutes on Netflix still now.There is talk that as a result, there could be the core cast, which would involve Meghan, could reunite for a film.

At this point, and a few years ago when she first left Royal Life, it would have sort of been unthinkable for her to go right back to those roots.But at this point, with everything that's going on with her and her branding, do you think it could be helpful for her to foray back into this?She's in a film coming up that I think comes out next year with Brie Larson.Is it something that she should maybe consider?What do you think, John?

I thought she had fallen out with a number of the Suits cast that she was very, very friendly with.If they're going to be brought in to take part in this, is she going to be actually acting in it?Or is she going to be a producer?And that means that she's going to be their boss?Well, I wouldn't want Meghan as my boss, I can assure you of that.

I reckon that...So, basically, what happened was they were saying on the red carpet, we don't have her number anymore.You know, they were being asked, are you still in touch with Meghan?And they were saying on camera, we don't really have her number anymore.Patrick J Adams, at one point, was asked, why do you not...in touch with Megan.

This was years ago.And then it was only a couple of years later that he said pure fear I think was his response which actually like this was before we knew this was before the kind of times bullying stuff had come out and so that was hilarious but essentially I think they will be able to work through those problems you know Patrick J Adams despite saying that at a later time after Oprah came out and you know backed Megan with her narrative about the royal family, you know, these are actors and they want to be famous too, you know, they want the limelight too, they want success and they want the paycheck too and I think if they get everyone together they will be able to work through those problems.And they all want to cash in on the fame that Suits has found.And I think actually a lot of those actors would be quite pleased and they would approach that reconciliation in a very positive way.I think actually a part of what upset them was the fact that Meghan kind of cut and ran.So I think that they would want to heal that relationship.

My personal view is Meghan should act in it, she should star in it.I think it's crazy that she didn't go back to Suits when she came back to America.Half the problems she's experiencing now she would not have experienced if she'd just gone back to what, you know, she got famous for doing and gone back to this series that now turns out is hugely popular now that it's on Netflix.

And as you said, look, they may have fallen out, but I do think that money talks and if there is the opportunity to bring the absolute core cast back, I agree.I think it would be a wonderful idea.

I accept that the difference between Megan is she's more Hollywood than she is royal.There's no doubt about that.I agree with Jack that if she was to go back into some sort of project, whether it's suits or something else, it's a film or whatever, she'd probably do reasonably well with it.But she'd be doing that because she's Meghan, Duchess of Sussex, not because she's Meghan Sussex.So, you know, it's all linked to the fact that she's linked with the royal family.Take that away and she's nothing.

There you go.Moving on now to Andrew.As you mentioned earlier, I mean, we've just gone into what the actual incident was last week, but he's now reportedly demanding his taxpayer -funded security be reinstated after this disturbing alleged incident, which was near his home, as you pointed out, Jack, in Norfolk.Look, he's obviously been stripped of all of his royal titles and etc and he's been effectively exiled.But Matt, he's also going to remain a high profile figure for the rest of his life and he's the King's brother.Does he have any legs to stand on with this demand?

No.I'm sorry, but there is no appetite within the royal household, the royal family, Met Police, RABEC, Home Office, any right -thinking man and woman living in the UK that believes that Andrew should now have arms protection.You think everything that's good, because remember it was removed many years ago because he stepped down being a working royal.Currently, the King funds, he provides Andrew with a lot of money, and Andrew can choose to spend that in the way that he wishes.Currently he has I believe former Met Police Royal Protection Officers looking after him and as one source said to me after the incident he's talking about there outside March Farm it looks like that security officer did his job.So I don't see why we need now to have calls to step up.

We know what's been happening with Harry going through court.And I do not understand why there is such a need for everybody to be surrounded somehow by this ring of steel of security.When you see Catherine out here in Italy, it's going to be very light touch.There isn't going to be, you know, gun -toting cops all around her.And I don't, I do not see how anyone could accept that, that, that, that we would, the members of the public,taxpayers, would fund for Andrew to have armed police.

There's not a need for it, I'm sorry.

Well, you're exactly right that it would be a difficult sell to the public, suggesting that they should be forking out for this.

Andrew does not need a gun guard to take a dog for a walk.I mean, he's stuck where he is. because of his own misfortune that he engineered all by himself.Now this one incident does not necessarily mean that you've got to rush around and start getting police with arms up at Sandringham.We'll have a court case and we'll see what actually did happen.It looks from what we already know, that this guy got out of his car and started to shout and scream at Andrew.And that was it.

And the guy, the private security guy, the former Met guy, did his job.He got him in the car and away.I was concerned about, did he manage to pick up the dog and get the dog in the car?

The late Queen's corgis, I think.

I don't think it was one of the corgis.From a picture that I saw, it did not look like a corgi.But I could be wrong.

That's the investigative journalism part of the story.I should have looked at the clip photo a little bit more closely.Outing myself as not a dog breed enthusiast.

I think a couple of observations.One, would we give police protection to Epstein?Andrew is hated because of the things that he is accused of doing.He is being investigated by the police.Traditionally, it's usually the witness that gets police protection, not the potential defendant.He's not been charged yet.

They've still got to make a decision on whether to charge him.But also, from a purely security point of view, his house, Marsh Farm, the village where this guy was arrested is right by the specific entrance to Sandringham.That is right by Andrew's house.So from a security perspective, straight away, Does he even need to leave the Sandringham Estate to walk his dogs?Because if he hadn't, this wouldn't have happened.If he's going to leave the Sandringham Estate to walk his dogs, does he really need to go?

straight to the entrance that's right by his house and then stop and get out of the car right by that entrance.Take him out of a different entrance to a different place that's nowhere near his house and you're not going to find someone who's lying in wait to attack him.Then you can look at the doors on the estate.You can look at whether there are gates, how easy it is to get through.So there are loads of security issues that you can look at and security provisions that you can look at that don't actually require him have a Metropolitan Police armed bodyguard.You could even justify probably the Met inspecting you know, this area and seeing whether there's more could be done.

You could have cameras put up.Giving advice.

Yeah, exactly.Or a review of the current set up as opposed to there being a boost in...

But you made a valid point and that is that the public would not stand for it.Even though the amount of money is minimal, you know, to protect Andrew from, you know, by a gun guard, the public would not...They jump up and down as it is at the moment.Can you imagine what it is you're going to give a man who's accused of the things Andrew's been accused of, being given a gun guard?It's the principle, of course.It's the principle, and they'd be going to the barricades.

There's no question about that.

I tell you what, the one justification I could see for giving a Metropolitan Police bodyguard is if they were effectively undercover helping the police investigation.

If the police, if the authorities are watching, there you go.

Yeah, that's the way to do it.

Well, we'll see how this all unfolds from here.Moving on to Andrew's ex -wife, though.She's been, again, back in the headlines.We haven't seen her for so long.I think The Sun found her recently.We know that she was hiding out in Austria, but she has made headlines because apparently there's Andrew Lowney, who wrote an incredible book about Andrew and Sarah, claimed that she actually had a, I'm going to use an interesting term and not one I ever thought I'd say on this show, a friends with benefits arrangement.

Sean P. Diddy Combs back in the day in the early 2000s and this went on for years.Now both parties, both Sarah and Sean Combs have denied that this ever was a physical relationship.A source close to Sarah has said, Quote, this is absolute fabricated nonsense, blatantly untrue, and yet another false allegation from Andrew Lowney.And a representative for Sean Combs said there are so many important and monumental events happening today.This utterly ridiculous gossip isn't one of them.Lastly, I will say, though, that Andrew Lowney has doubled down, though, on this story and says, I stand by it.

It's fully sourced with former employees of P. Diddy and Sarah Ferguson.Well, a bit in that.Charles, what do you make of these statements, particularly Sean Combs's?I found it a little bit vague.

Well, vague is not the word.I mean, it's just it's not a denial.It's trying to... be clever.He's trying to spin it in a way that we won't discuss again.Sarah's is much more of a denial and it would be an interesting court case if either of them ever decided, you know, to sue Andrew Lowney.It's never going to happen because, you know, so much stuff could come out.

It would be incredible.I mean, when I first saw it, you know, I actually had to read it twice because I was staggered that she could, even for her, Even for her, she could be so stupid as to get involved with P. Diddy, you know, and his, and his, the way he, isn't he in prison at the moment?

He was, yes, yes.He's in prison.I think she's shown some exceptionally bad taste when it comes to him.

Yeah, she has lots of bad taste, even from the days of her toe -sucking and everything else on the French Riviera.But, you know, linked with P. Diddy, and there's that picture which disturbed me greatly, the picture of her, Eugèneand P Diddy and the so -called quote about P Diddy, I can hardly wait for her to grow up.You just think, hang on a second, that's not...

I think that is the most chilling part of it.Oh, yeah, absolutely.It's not the first time Sarah Ferguson, you know, she took the girls to meet Epstein.Epstein.While he was still under house...He'd just come out of prison and he was under house arrest and she took the girls to meet him.

And I've said this before, that was one of the things that I found absolutely disgraceful and I've known Fergie for a great many many years and I've forgiven her a great many things but that a mother taking two teenage girls to meet a well -known convicted paedophile You know, no, I'm sorry.

And at one point, days after his release from jail, I think it's extraordinarily bad judgment, of course.But again, it is the involvement of her children in that story, which is all the more shocking.

I mean, Bronte, there's bad judgment and there's bad judgment.And that is really crass to do anything like that.

I completely agree.And look, as we've just mentioned, her reputation is obviously in tatters following the release of the Epstein files and, you know, seeing the depth of her ties to him.But she's been laying very low and there have been a lot of headlines and unflattering claims and allegations coming out about her.But to have a source close to her come out with this strong statement about this story in particular, why do you think it was important for her to speak on this one?

A, there's photos of her daughter with Diddy, so that's very disturbing right from the off.B, it expands this into, there is not actually in existence a clear, coherent allegation that Sarah Ferguson had slept with Jeffrey Epstein, you know.It may have been insinuated by people, some people may have jumped to that conclusion, but nowhere has there beensaid, you know, I know this thing happened.Whereas what this is, is a very clear allegation where you have people on both sides of the fence, as in Diddy's camp and Fergie's camp, royal, you know, a palace source, saying to Andrew Lowney, they had a sexual relationship.Diddy is, you know, he was only very recently convicted of a lesser crime than he was charged with.

You know, he did get off a lot of the allegations against him.And she very clearly introduced her daughters to him.And that line about, you know, he can't wait until they come of age is terrific.And I actually spoke to Andrew Doney this week, and he absolutely 100 percent is standing by his story.He has spoken to his publishers about it.They are standing by him.

And the point he made to me was, look at Fergie's track records.We have those emails where she came out in February 2011 and said, I abhor pedophilia.I hugely regret that Jeffrey Epstein became involved with me, rather than I got involved with Jeffrey Epstein.She said all of this stuff on the record to the evening standards.And then went and emailed Jeffrey Epstein and said, I feel hellacious about it all.I'm so sorry I let you down.

I was made to do it by the evening standards.media who forced me to announce it.Supreme friends.Yeah, she said she was bedridden with anxiety about what she'd been made to do.

Well, Matt, I think you actually need to duck off, but you have a very good reason.

The Princess of Wales is going to turn up in Central India and I've got to go cover it.I'm going to have to say goodbye to everybody in a minute.Will you say hello to her from us?

Yes, say hello to her from Royal Exclusive.That is a very acceptable excuse to leave the show midway, Matt, and we will absolutely accept that.So thank you so much for your time.

Ask her if she's got any jam.

Well, it was great to have Matt with us.But now moving on, quickfire questions, if you would so oblige.We'll begin withwell obviously there's always a lot of royal news around but this week there has been a lot of politics.Keir Starmer's job is hanging in the balance and with that in mind, which royal would you like to see step up as the next Prime Minister?

Well for me it's William.Without a shadow of a doubt.Well, it can't be Charles, in my view, because he's king.He's the head of state.But I think William's got a track record of showing that he cares an awful lot about the people of this country.Absolutely.

I think that's a solid answer, but I am going to go with the King.Constitutional chaos, though it would evolve, because it's a hypothetical question anyway, right?And I just think after the incredible job that Charles did in America with Trump, he has proven actually that he can offer the British public something that's really, really needed right now.And he went down not just well in America and not just well in Britain, but I think the whole of Europe took notice of what Charles did when he stepped into that Congress, addressed a massively divided House.and had both sides standing up and giving standing ovations.You know, he had JD Vance clapping support for Ukraine and he had Ilhan Omar, who is part of this whole kind of no kings movement, clapping a king.

So, you know.

It was extraordinary, actually.Absolutely.His visit to the US.Now, back to Sarah Ferguson briefly.After it was reported that she may have had a relationship with P. Diddy, What would her rap name be?

Well, I've got two.One is Queen Fergie and the other is Fergalicious.

Like Fergie the singer, of course, back in the day.

Black Eyed Peas, yeah.I was going to go Fergie Ferg.

Yes, all would work I think.And finally, it's Eurovision this weekend which is a lot of fun.Which royal should we get to represent the UK?

I can't stand Eurovision or anything at all to do with it.So I would certainly ask Catherine to do it because at least we would get more than null points.

I wonder if she can sing though?

Doesn't matter.

You're right, it doesn't matter.

She can play the piano and so yeah I was gonna go Catherine as well because she is the one who's demonstrated an ability to perform music.Obviously Charles loves music and adores seeing live classical music but yeah I mean Kate's the one who's actually done it you know at her Together at Christmas carol service she played, she did a piano duet.So, yeah, she has got to be the number one choice.

Well, now that overseas travel for her is back on the agenda next year, who knows?Maybe she'll be there.Thank you so much to both of you for joining me. I know we had a lot to discuss today and I really appreciate your insights.And that's all we have time for on this week's Royal Exclusive.Thanks to my guests, Charlie and Jack.And thanks to you, as always, for watching.

Remember to subscribe to us here on our Royal Exclusive YouTube channel for the latest royal news.See you next week.