“HARRY WILL HAVE TO SELL THE HOUSE” – EX-EDITOR KELVIN MACKENZIE EXPOSES BROKE PRINCE

A total disaster for Prince Harry, as the publishers of the Daily Mail newspaper seek to remove a spending cap which could leave the Duke with unlimited liability on legal costs.Now, Paul Dacre, the man in charge of the Daily Mail and its associated titles, is seeking to retrieve up to $75 million.Let's get reaction from one of the very biggest names in British journalism, Kelvin Mackenzie, the man who was editor at the Sun newspaper for over a decade in the 1980s and early 90s, when it was Britain's biggest newspaper.Kelvin, welcome to the Mark Dolan Show.

Welcome.Glad to see you, Mark.Glad to see that you're prospering in these difficult times.

Most definitely.Getting away with it, haven't been found out yet.Now, Kelvin, does it surprise you that Paul Dacre, the former editor of the Daily Mail, is moving so aggressively to get his money back?We hear they are going for the jugular.

Well, first of all, I'm delighted to hear it.Delighted.There was never a case, and as the judge pointed out, there was never any evidence.That is the reality.And when Harry got into the witness box, Instead of relying on evidence, when you go into these high court things, you can't say what you think, what colors you like.Isn't that a nice cheese sandwich?

You've got to say on this day X happened.And on the right on Monday, I thought something rather strange happened to my phone.And on the Tuesday, they ran the story saying that I'd run off with three elephants.You need to have evidence.He had none of that evidence.None of the others had the goods and actually They put the mail through the torturing.

The truth about the matter is in my day, the journalists were enormously powerful.The editors were enormously powerful.That is not true today.Juries, judges, politicians.much rather believe bad of the press than say, I'll tell you what, don't let's bother with it.Okay.

So they were tortured.They were tortured in the witness box.They were told that they were liars.They were told that they were hackers.They were told that they were blaggers.And actually, the truth about the matter is the reason I never fought a libel action while I was in while I was the editor of The Sun, was because I was told by a huge number of KCs, or QCs as they were then, actually, you didn't have a reputation to maintain.

They wouldn't believe a word you said, and you would be torn apart in the witness box.I didn't need any encouragement.I said, thanks very much.I won't bother.In this case, they had to do the reverse.A whole series, including Paul Dacre, had to go in the witness box and had to be tortured by actually not a KC actually, he's a barrister.

Anyway, the truth is it was terrible and Harry and all his mates, poor Elton John, they actually all got utterly, utterly eviscerated by the judge.A huge document in which absolutely gave it to Harry and co.Full bore.So this is when the rub comes.The rub comes when the bulls come in.The bills for these lawyers are preposterous, absolutely ridiculous.

They're not worth it.They are not worth it.And with a bit of luck, AI is going to eviscerate a lot of solicitors.That will be great.Great day for me. I don't say that the big companies can't pay.I'm just saying ordinary people can't pay.

So they're going to get stuff.In comes the bill.Now, there's two ways of looking at this bill.After all, Harry,gave effect insurance to Baroness Doreen Lawrence, the mother of Stephen Lawrence.So that's another bill he's going to face.

Not only his own bill, he's going to face Doreen Lawrence's bill.OK, so sorry about this.There's stuff coming up.And the bottom line on it is that actually when the witness doesn't have the goods, when the plaintiff doesn't have the goods and palpably doesn't have the goods and the judge said so, you didn't have the evidence, then you can go after them for more of your costs than the costs which would normally be appropriate for such a hearing.

Well, that's right.And there is a concern that the insurance, which wasn't going to cover the totality of legal costs, may not be forthcoming at all.Because of that flimsy evidence, the insurers could argue that this was not conducted in good faith and it was never a solid case in the first place.So Harry could be on the hook for the whole lot.

Yes, this is a great moment, isn't it?This is a great moment.Effectively, what the insurers could say, there's no guarantee.There's just an indication currently that's out there.What the insurance could say is you said X, Y and Z, and this was the basis of your case.And it's the reason why we insured what your costs would be.

Then we discover that when you gave the evidence, it wasn't in line with what you said.And how do we know this?Because the judge says you didn't have a leg to stand on.that would be massively serious.

I think, Kelvin, to interrupt you, I think you can safely say that Harry lied in court.So, for example, he said he'd never been to a festival and then the quick response fromthe lawyer acting on behalf of the Daily Mail was to say, well, you wrote about going to a festival in your book spare, Well, that's pretty awkward.Or what about the mystery around his friendship, or even more than that, with Charlotte Griffiths, who's now the editor at large of the Mail on Sunday?Harry said he didn't know who she was.He found out she was a journalist.

He cut off all contact.Turns out they've had a bit of a friendship for many days.He is Mr. Mischief.There's the movie Snuggles.He's got a nickname for her as well.And it was she that cut off contact.

So both of those things Both of those parts of his case were untrue.

Yes, I totally agree.And actually, in the reality, the second one involving the editor -at -large at the Mail on Sunday, is an enormous whopper, actually, and actually strikes to the very heart of Harry saying, I never had friendships with journalists, I actually dislike journalists, I cut them all off instantly the minute I discovered they're journalists.So and that actually cut to the quick of his own evidence.Look, at the end of it all, whichever way, whether it's only this, it's only the bill he expected to pick up, Yeah.Or it's going to be the super bill.These are enormous amounts of money.

So here comes the rub.He and his wife appear to live on effectively hot air.I mean, you know, and somebody once said to me, money is important.It's right up there with oxygen.You know, the truth is, it's hard.It's hard to exist.

It's hard to exist without money.And he has his mother's money, which I think meant about 12, 15, 17 million quid.Plus, she has some money as a two -bit actress in a film.that did quite well called suit for a while yeah but they live i think they live in a house which has something like 15 bathrooms or something yeah correct that takes in america the cost is effectively of the council tax because they have a police force and they have a roads way of making roads and everything it costs a fortune that place would probably cost them on its own just to run the house i'm guessing i don't know a couple hundred thousand a year easy And then there's the private security and they've got a place in Portugal, which they're having done up at the moment.

International travel.They've got a staff, which are a very long suffering group of people.So, you know, financially, I mean, how bad could things get for Harry?Could he run out of cash?

Right.So this is where you're going to start seeing, this is where you're going to start seeing the brave new world begin to collapse in.I bet my rear end to London Bridge that what starts to happen is that he starts to repair his relationship with the royal family over here.And the reason they'll be saying that is because they want to be on, they want to be on their father, he will want to be on his father's, in his father's will.So you can have any view you like about family relationship.Everybody has a dodgy family relationship.

You can't stand your brother, your sister.I'm worried about my dad's rude to me and all that.You get all that.But when push comes to shove, money talks and bullshit walks.And so I expect you to see over the next year him showing a lot of interest in how well his dad is.Can I pop over to see you?

Get about the insurance.Do you know what?I've always been interested.My brother, my closest friend.Blood is stronger than, is thicker than water.I can hear this.

I can hear all the old tosh, right?Everybody sets aside, everybody sets aside enmity in relation to 15 to 20 million quid.And that, I see it coming out.

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I hope that right.I hope I did.Yes, I'm a great fan of Paul Decker.The real man I'm in favor of here, by the way, is Lord Rothermeyer, the owner of the mail, because somebody had to say, yes, I will pony up 40, 50 million dollars And I am going to support my employees, right?Not every major media giant might take that.He did.

He made the bet and he has been repaid.And the unfortunate part about it is that, for instance, if there's a 60 or 70 million dollar bill floating around, If things don't change, if for instance Harry is not considered to have crossed any evidential line and therefore he only has to pay 15 or 20 million and Elton John has to pay X or Y, the male mightend up with a 15 to 20 million dollar check for defending themselves against an action they didn't stand, against something which a 400 page report by a judge said was a complete load of old nonsense.That would be so unfair.That is why.So, so, right.

So Harry, Harry not only faces, can face that bill, but he also apparently in order to drag Baroness Lawrence, Her son was murdered, right?He says, I've heard some stuff which may be helpful to you, Baroness.I'll cover your costs.We're going to win a load of money here.Everything will be hunky -dory.Don't worry about that.

OK?Unfortunately, it hasn't turned out like that.So he's got to find her position as well.I mean, these are very serious lumps of money, not just for everybody to say, oh, well, it won't matter.I say, if it gets to the 10, 15, or even 20, 30, 40, This could be.Now the other sign that you'll see could be, so first of all Getting friendly.

Always loved you, Daddy.Never said a nasty word about it.No, no.That book, somebody else wrote that.It was ghosted.I was as shocked as you were when it appeared.

Something got lost in translation.I understand that, son.No father wants to have a full scale war.So he sees all this.But I also wonder, the other aspect to it, and this is the one to watch for, is whether his home outside, fashionable, huge, 8 ,000 bedrooms, 9 ,000 bathrooms, you know, 4 million square miles of LA, right?I wonder whether that goes for sale.

We are deciding that the house is too big for it.Wow.

You think they may have to sell the house, which will be humiliating for Megan, wouldn't it?

Yeah.And we're going to move to Preston, right?We've decidedwe've decided that the north of England, because it's near the power base, not just down the road, not too far, still in Lancashire, down the road from from Acrefield and all, you know, lots of places in the in the in the Northwest, which we didn't go into.Right.And he decides then to take a terraced house there and become a party of the people and offer his services to the Labour government in order to raise money for difficult times.

Surely not, because Harry has the reverse Midas touch, as you know, Kelvin.Everything he touches turns to mud, so he's lost control of the charity that he co -founded in the memory of his mother, Diana.That was Sentebale, which Dr. Sophie Chandalka now controls, a woman that Harry horribly defamed.He's shuttered the Archwell Philanthropies.That's basically just nominal now.Invictus is losing sponsors left, right and centre.

The guy just he can't get a break, can he?The issue he's got is that those charities are part of his brand, part of his identity.If there's no Invictus, there's no Harry.

Yes, I think that I think that's true.Now, actually, That would be a sadness, right?To me, you know, to salute the military.If you go to the States, you go to the States.One of the great things there is similar in one respect when you go and get a plane, right?Internal plane.

And it says the disabled come forward.Yeah.And dads with young kids come forward.And then they say, anybody who fights for us for the minute, anybody joins in the military and then says, we're grateful for what you do for us.in this country, we never mention that.

So we litigate against them when they're retired.

Yes, we pursue them almost to the grave.In fact, beyond the grave sometimes.Correct.So I don't want to see him victor's go.But where you are right is that when he belongs to something, it's always about him.Instead of him doing what you can do in a football club, you can fund a football club, but you needn't be going to every match and you needn't be doing this.

For instance, I'm a season ticket holder at Brentford.The owner there has done a phenomenal job.You wouldn't know him.I wouldn't know him if I bumped into him.Right.Nor would in many of the facts.

He keeps himself to himself.When it comes to Harry, no matter what he does, it's all about Harry.Right.And when he wrote that book, he wrote that book.And it's an example of why you shouldn't write a book.When you write a book, those words never die.

It's not even like a film.With a film, it can get old, and oh, did he say something?Oh, it's a moment.A book, those words stay on the page and are a wound that never heals, right?Now, however, he has then turned himself into, he can't deny it.He cannot say, I didn't say all these things.

So it's a massive problem.But my sense, and the other problem, the other one to watch, so there's three here.One, does he start repairing it with the dad?Two, he flogs the LA place.Three, he then reaches out to his brother and says, that stuff I said about you in the book, I wholly regret.And here's the rub.

I was doing it under pressure from my wife.And actually, I'm pleased to tell you, or I'm displeased to tell you, that she and I, I just want to keep it to yourself, William, if you'd be grateful.We are we are going our separate ways.I'm moving.I'm moving to a change.house in Preston and she is moving to a smaller home somewhere in Hollywood.

And, but I wonder whether we might have a beer together and talk about the good times we had together.So any, right, do you see any of those three?you'll know that they haven't got the money for the bill and actually they're there.You remember what they say, when money goes out the window, love goes out the door.Now, actually, I've had to have a special door put in to stop that happening.at my house.

You've had it rigged up haven't you Kelvin?I have because too many people have gone out the door and I'm having it because of the way I look now.I'm having difficulty in getting people to come in the door.

Yes, I understand you're a kept man now, courtesy of the very well appointed Mrs Mackenzie.Kelvin, the money side of it is fascinating.And your point about William is interesting.And I totally agree that I think the only way that Harry could possibly make up with his brother is to divorce Meghan.And as you say, essentially fess up to his bro and put it to him that really Meghan made me do all of those things.And I think that reconciliation proper reconciliation between the brothers whilst Megan is on the scene.

It's got to be impossible, hasn't it?

Yes.Well, that's if you've ever been around families of any kind, right?I normally what happens is it's the it's the incoming it's the incoming girlfriend, the partner, a father, the wife.Normally the family literally can't stand them.Right.And she comes in the can't stand I literally cannot stand that woman, right?

And when you can't stand somebody, male or female, they overreact.have to be within about two or three yards of you and you feel a great sort of tension begin in your tummy, right?And actually you do well with coming to those Dalek machines.Don't come near me.And what happens in families is that eventually you have family dues where people who can't stand each other are at different ends of quite a small room.but are clever enough to actually move their way around each other without ever having said.

I wonder, for instance, now what about this?I wonder whether Kate would say, I can't stand being in that room with that lady on the basis I have a cancer or I have had a cancer.And when I'm stressed and tense, does it fire up the opportunity of this beast inside me of getting worse?I think that that would be an argument that Kate could use to avoid having to say hello to each other.

Kelvin, what is your appraisal of Meghan Markle?What do you think makes her tick?What do you think of this young woman that was an unknown TV actress, married a prince and has become one of the most famous women on the planet?

I think she certainly didn't want to marry somebody like herself, did she?She didn't want to watch.She didn't want to marry an up and coming or, you know, some.I don't want to be unkind.And she's not a two bit actress.Right.

That would be obviously a saga against two bit actresses.She's not a two bit actress.Right.That is true.She had a minor role in a in quite a successful in quite a successful TV show.She parlayed that up into a prince.

Not only that, if she didn't care, if she was a woman of the people, why did she want her kids to keep the prince and princesstype?Absolutely.I find that in America, if you've got a title like that, princess, whatever, do you know their names?I don't even know their names.

Archie and Lily.

Okay.If you said you were Princess Lily, it sounds like a rap artist in America.I mean, it's absurd.And why would they want that?The only reason that I suspect they might want that is that one day they were thinking of living in Europe, if not in the UK.

It's beyond me. I think, Kelvin, I think they want to hang on to that royal IP because it's going to be very useful in the years ahead.They're royal when it suits them, Kelvin, and not royal when it doesn't.

Well, look, that's a good, that's a very good point, Mark.How can it work for them on the West Coast of America?The reality is the stuff I read about Megan and Co and Harry, I mean, Harry, you know, you know, one more brain cell, it'd be a keep left sign, wouldn't it?I mean, there is absolutely nothing going on with old Harry.You know, you're right there.Just testing.

Why, why on earth does he, did he think that this could possibly work?Because They spend their entire life with women, literally.I mean, I'd like to be in that position, right?Honestly, if I had your hair, there'd be no doubt the queue outside my house in Surrey would be stretching around the corner.It's only because I've lost this.It's got nothing to do with this.

I can tell you that.This is in great shape.If you're Harry, why on earth would you go down this route?You must have known.You must have known from her very personality and from the first time that she was introduced to the family.they must have known this is never, ever going to work.

And I could understand William saying, hey, don't go too fast.Are you sure?Anybody who has had in their family a Megan come for a cup of tea, come around and meet Kate and everything, they would have known from the minute Yeah, actually, to give her give Megan attitude, right?She knew from the first time she saw the power structure within the palace, i .e.I'm just another one, right?

Yeah, because there's loads of other ones in there.I'm not the top of this tree.This is an actual triangle with a king on the top.And then we go down like that.And this triangle, she knew it was never, ever going to work.So she then had a choice.

She says, this is never going to work.Honestly, I quite like the guy, but honestly, some romances don't work.Literally, how long have they been married now?

Since 2019, so seven years.So actually, we've got the seven -year itch coming up, okay?

The reality is that it's probably lasted longer than some of the critics would have believed it to have lasted, right?If they're still, look, nobody wants the marriage to go pop, does it?Nobody wants it, with the exception probably of Dan Wooden, right?Nobody, nobody, nobody wants it, right?Nobody wants it to go pop.So, but if it does last another three or four years, it'd be a miracle.

Because the other problem is if it goes pop, the kids are going to stay in America.He's going to be living in a, in a, in a terrace somewhere in Preston, right?You know, when's he going to see her?I mean, it's ridiculous.

It is completely ridiculous.Now, speaking of ridiculous, going back to this failed legal action against the publishers of the Daily Mail, Kelvin, after the verdict, Harry makes an intemperate statement describing the verdict as a complete and obvious whitewash.Now, first of all, not only is he denigrating the Royal Courts of Justice, which are headed up by, the figurehead of which is his father, King Charles.But he's insulted Mr. Justice Nicklin, right, questioning his integrity as a judge.He didn't think this through, did he, Kelvin?Because it's old Mr. Justice Nicklin.

He'll decide whether or not Harry faces unlimited liability for legal costs.

Correct.That's a very good point.Actually, it's like before the start of a football match, taking a very long run and kicking the referee firmly in the bollocks and then hoping that you won't get a red card.It is a preposterous and goes to show how arrogant the guy is. doesn't even understand that what happens when you go into a high court action or any court action, you can't be sure what the outcome is going to be.The trouble is all these legal advices and the things going ka -ching, ka -ching, ka -ching.When you're running up millions and millions of pounds and dollars in legal costs, we're all saying it's going great, ka -ching, it's going great, ka -ching, carry on fighting, ka -ching, ka -ching, ka -ching.

And then, He finds out I'm left with a big bill and then he decides to let the judge have it.What is the point of letting the judge have it?He's so used to running things or being the top of the tree that he doesn't understand that in the in the law courts, for instance, I can think quite famous family.Give the credit.Give the credit to Rupert Murdoch.He gets involved in a bit of a battle with his family and actually takes takes the loss on the on the chin and moves on with his life.

right?That is the sign of a very clever, intelligent man, okay?And so Harry should learn from those kinds of people.It's a roll of the dice when you go into the courts.In this case, he didn't have the goods, there was no hacking, there was no blagging, there was no everything.Nothing could be proved.

Well, that's a great irony.He picked the wrong target in the Daily Mail, because as you said, Lord Rothermere, the owner, backed his journalists and prevailed.And of course, that paper didn't have a history of things like phone hacking.Lots of other publications did, including The Sun, after you left as editor, Kelvin.So he chose the wrong target.And a source close to Harry's legal team described that statement after the verdict as very stupid and and unnecessary.

Now, you're absolutely right that Harry is a couple of geraniums short of a flower bed.But do you think there's something else going on?I mean, is he losing grip with reality?What is your appraisal of Harry's mind at the moment?Where is his head at, Kelvin?

I'll tell you where it is.It's firmly stuck up his ass.That's the problem.The issue for him, the issue for him is that he has no power.He has no power.He is nobody.

He's kind of an ex -prince hanging around on the West Coast, trying to get invited to A -lister parties.He is not a person of substance himself.And it's an incredible thing to say.How old is the guy in his 40s now?41.41.

So he's not relevant.Now, look, I'm not relevant, but I'm 190.It doesn't matter.Do you see what I mean?It doesn't matter that I'm not relevant, right?And the fact is, I can't... 41.

Even if I paid money, I wouldn't be invited to quite a few parties, right?In his case,in his case, he's hanging around hoping to bump into Brad Pitt or somebody famous or something so he can be pictured going in and out of a nightclub for the middle -aged, right?So he has got to define who he is.Everything he touches goes pot and leaves him with a bill, right, and lets hope for his sake or his children's sake that he's not left with a bill by his wife when she finally decides that Tom at number 83 is more attractive.

Well, Kelvin, I know you've got to run in just a moment.We will let you go.I just want to ask you if you were still editor of the Sun newspaper, and I wish you were because it would be worth reading if you were, because during your time at the Sun, you took it from a relatively fledgling title to Britain's biggest paper, with a daily circulation of almost four and a half million copies, which is incredible.If you were editor now, how would you be treating Harry and Meghan?What sort of copy would you be churning out as we speak?

The way to treat the royal family is, it's like a soap.So because my vision is of Harry living in a terraced house in Preston, it's going to be more Coronation Street than the East Enders.And he'd have to go down the pub to meet people.So the way to look upon them all is as though they are stars in a soap.In his case, he's a guy who did quite well selling cars.This is how I see it.

Selling cars.He stayed with petrol.Everybody else started buying electric.He's gone pot.And most of his time, he sits in a pub at the corner of his road, telling anybody that comes in, saying, you know, I'm a member of the royal family, don't you?And they keep on saying, of course you are, Harry.

Yes, you are.buy you a drink?And he said, yes, might be a large brandy.That's how I see him going forward.

A sad and rather tragic figure, isn't it sad?And Kelvin, last but not least, Do you think the Fleet Street, the UK press will now be more confident in their reporting of the Sussexes, particularly the Daily Mail, who have prevailed over Harry not just once with this latest verdict, but let's not forget Harry settled in January 2024 in a prosecution, in a case he was bringing against the Mail on Sunday for their coverage of his Royal Security story.So he's lost twice to the Mail.Do you think that the press will handle Harry differently now going forward?

Look, I think Harry made his bed In fact, he's lying in it with Megan is the truth about the matter is they are they are very unpopular people.And the reason she didn't come anywhere near anywhere last time to be photographed is quite clear.Right.She'd be booed.They would both be booed.Wow.

Which would be a shocking moment for them rather than all that.

And all that.

It will be terrible.It will be to be worse than Trump.And on that basis, she never showed her face, even though she was here.Right.I find that extraordinary.And it's a terrible it's a terrible moment for her when she says to herself, oh, the whole nation, why don't they like me?

Right.And the answer is they don't like her because they took away perfectly amiable, if somewhat dim prince and actually sentenced himself to wandering around Los Angeles trying to find the way out.

Kelvin McKenzie, former editor of the Sun newspaper, founder of TalkSport, which is the biggest radio station on the planet.of sport on the planet.And most importantly, the man who gave me my first job in broadcasting, Kelvin, a true honour to have you.I do hope you'll join us again soon on the Mark Downey Show.

I'd love to do that.Thank you very much for your time.

Cheers.Kelvin checks in the post.See you soon.

Cheers.Bye.Bye.