'I can't be bought!' Farage lets rip over £5million donation scandal | Exclusive

I can't be bought by anybody.This mob won't last three years.

Are you going to live in number 10?

Shouldn't think so.Well, we're on the Casper Powerplant.Are you ready for it?It's slightly daunting.

Nigel Farage, you're so close to power, you can smell it, can't you?

Well, you know what?In racing terms, for us last Thursday was Beechersbrook, the big fence at the Grand National.And that's the one you've got to clear.But there are more fences to jump.So we're not there yet.We're not there yet.

But another massive step forward.And I'm not sure the significance of what we've achieved in the midlands of the north of England has yet sunk in.But we've crushed Labour.I want to say crushed, I mean literally crushed the Labour Party in parts of the country where they've been dominant for over 100 years.So yeah, big step.

You say that you've overcome a big hurdle, lots more hurdles to come.What's standing between you and that black door of Number 10?

have got to get better at what we do.We've got to find the right people to stand for us at a general election.And that's becoming harder and harder.Getting good people with big backgrounds, whether it's in business or sport or whatever it is, to enter public life is getting harder and harder.The levels of intrusion are becoming really horrid.I mean, absolutely horrid.

for everybody.Every mobile phone is now a camera.There's literally no privacy for anybody.Anyone that's been successful in life would have had the odd skirmish along the way, because that's life.

One way of putting it, isn't it?

Well, no, but that's life.And so we've kind of finished up with a parliament now full of people who have been in the public sector, not had any profile.Of course, you know, society needs all these people.But the massive over -representation in Parliament of that particular type of individual is because, to a large degree, many who've got backgrounds are scared,to put their heads over the parapet, scared of what becoming a politically exposed person means.That means you get your bank accounts closed, your family get attacked, social media is vile these days.

So one of the big steps for me, I've got to persuade people.a mixture of people from across different backgrounds, to stand up in public and say, you know what, we're going to do this.So getting the right people, getting the right structures here in our office, the right campaigns, and you know what, the other factor, a little bit of luck.

Always a bit of luck.But you can make your own luck as well.You can also make a lot.You can sometimes make a lot for your own back.And you just made a big song and dance earlier in the year, late last year, about improving your vetting of candidates.And yet again, you know, you've got You would know more than me.

You've seen people pop up who've said some pretty stupid and pretty horrible things.Do you know what?Slip through the net.

Do you know what?Do you know what?Yeah, well, we put up 4 ,850 candidates last Thursday.And have we had problems with a few?Yes.The Tories had even more problems than we had.

The Greens had problems.Everybody had problems.You can't have that number of people going forward without some slipping through the net.But you know what?In most cases, the reason we've had trouble is people either lied to us or had social media handles not declared to us or things like that.So you're always going to get a bit of this.

I would say we've got through this election pretty unscathed on bad candidates because the other parties have all had the same problem.

So the other thing that people have been a bit miffed about and, you know, there has been a bit of a slump in the polls this year.You're back to 30.Oh, the slump.

This is the narrative, isn't it?

Reformers peak.It's all over.

It's cobblers.First point to make.is we are in multi -party politics.We're in multi -party politics.If you look at where we are in the polls, right now, we're pretty much exactly where we were this time last year.

About 28, 29, 30 %?

30%, whatever it is. 30 % is the latest one.

And do you think that's enough to have a mandate to govern?Look at the problem Keir Starmer's got.

What is going to happen?what is going to happen, or what I'm going to try and make happen, is for people who aren't particularly political, because they're busy, they've got a job and a mortgage and 2 .3 kids, and they're getting on with their lives.As the next election comes, if we are clearly the choice to beat the increasing leftward drift on the other side of politics, you'll see a lot more people who currently think Conservatives are their brand come across to us.And you've seen that already in Wales.You've seen it in Scotland.You've seen it in the north of England.

So look, we've got further to go.We need to go further.Could we win a majority on 30 %?Yes.But we need to be, you know, we need to be stronger.

Yeah, because the problem that Starmer got in is it's a broad and deep majority, but it's a loveless one.And he got in with, what, 33 %?It doesn't exactly...Hang on.Three quarters of the country...

They were legacy parties.I vote Labour because Grandad did.

You think that was still the case in 24?

Yes, of course.

Of course.A vast lot of them had already voted for Boris and had already voted for Brexit.They'd left the Labour Party a long time ago.They went back to the Labour Party.

About four million did.About four million did.There was still a solid eight million who'd been in labour all their lives, who hadn't shifted.And we're a new party.So the level of enthusiasm of our supporters is much higher than the level of enthusiasm that Starmer had in 2015.

I mean, enthusiasm, I think, would be pushing it.Where your polls did start to dip, and they did dip at the beginning of this year, was when you threw open the doors and let in Robert Jenrick, Nadeem Zahawi, Nadeem Dorriz, all these people you say crashed the economy, opened up our borders, drove the country off a cliff, and now they're your besties.Do you not think that's been backfired?

So what happened to Jenrick?He resigned.

Well, he kept the kebbeh fried in first.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.Let's go back.

Oh, I see.

He resigned as immigration minister.What happened to Zoella as Home Secretary?She basically kicked out for saying we're not being tough enough.So I've got no problem in people coming across who either resigned, were kicked out, or admitted the extent to which they got it wrong.

You make them take the knee and sort of flagellate themselves and say.

It's not quite as humiliating as that.No, no.Also, here's the point.You know, did I take a handful of high -profile people who've been in government?Yes.

And now no more.

Why did I do that?Because the one question I couldn't answer from you or anybody else was, well, it's all well and good, Nigel, but none of you have ever been there.None of you have the experience of understanding number 10 or how relations with the civil service work.We didn't have the experience.And I brought people in to give us experience.Did everybody love it as a decision?

No.

Any more on the cuff?Or that's done now?

To quote the Stranglers song, no more Tories anymore.

So they've had their chance.Trevor Kavanagh, your friend and mine, calls it muscle memory.And you needed some government muscle memory.Are you now confident you're ready for government?What are the first steps?days of the Farage premiership look?

What I was asked before Christmas, how ready were we?I said we're halfway there, which many comment, oh my goodness me, he admits.

Living on a prayer.

We've been a work in progress.We've come an astonishing way in one year and 10 months, an astonishing way in that shorter period of time.I'd say we're now two thirds ready.There's still further to go, but we're two thirds ready.And is it still a one -man band?Oh, this really hacks me off.

I mean...Oh, come on.

No one wants this to happen, but if you went under a bus tomorrow, reform's over.

I don't believe that to be true.

You don't?No, I don't.

No, I don't.

Who steps up?No.

You know what?Well, who steps up for the Labour Party now?Who's the next prime minister going to be?You can't answer that, can you?Well, there you are.This one -man band thing.

You know, I've appointed in the last four months, I've appointed a leader in Scotland, I've appointed a leader in Wales.I've appointed four major shadow cabinet positions.I've appointed a head of policy for the party, a head of preparing for government for the party.I keep appointing people.And they keep going on media all the time.They keep appearing in public all the time.

And I'm still told it's a one man band.

You know as well as I do that the path to Nigel Farage on the cusp of number 10 is littered with the people that have crossed you publicly, privately.

You all come out with this utter bilge.Utter bilge.Most people in this building we're sitting in now, my inner team, and you know them all, be with me for over a decade.There are people in this building who have been with me for over 25 years.I maintain long -termwork relationships with most people that ever crossed my path.

Do you know, even all my staff who worked for me in the 90s, 30 years ago in the city, are all still personal friends.I don't fall out with people.But what happens in politics is you get people to think they're much cleverer than you, and that they got elected to the European Parliament because of who they were.And they all get a bit too big for their boots.They decide to take me on.

So we're talking Rupert Lowe.

Maybe I'm not quite as friendly then.

Rupert Lowe, Ben Habib, Douglas Carswell has come back to the folder.Some of these people go mad.What is it about you that sends them round the bend though?Working with you.Jealousy.Jealousy?

It's jealousy.It's not that you don't brook dissent.

I'm perfectly relaxed about people disagreeing with me.

Just don't do it in public?

Just don't do it in public.That's the rule is it?Simple as.Always has been.You can come into my office.You can call me any words you like.

I don't believe that.

No, Harry, I don't mind one little bit.You can scream and shout at me. I don't mind one little bit.

So you're going to be the classic prime minister, first amongst equals, primus inter pares.Robert Jemmerich has free reign to do whatever he wants on the economy.As long as he tells me first.But you're not a crybaby.You've been the agenda setter for all these years, on net zero, on immigration, on Brexit.I don't think even your toughest critics would suggest otherwise.

You like setting the direction of travel.And these guys, yeah.

And these guys know the direction of travel, the genrics, et cetera.

And they're now free to go.

And now, boys, off you go.Boys and girls, off you go, and go and do it.Absolutely.

Do you worry that the scale of the problem?You're talking about you've got this shadow cabinet in place, you're building a policy team.You're going to have to have a manifesto that's going to be morethan the last one, which frankly was a bit of a piss take.I mean, the sums didn't add up.It was all over the shop.

Did I write it?Well, you signed it.You stood on it.

I wasn't going to stand.

We'll talk about that in a minute.I wasn't going to stand.OK, but this time it's serious, right?This time it is you are on the cusp of power.

Yeah.Well, we're on the cusp of power, but also the country faces the most serious problems it's faced in a multiple of areas.And there is so much to do that the biggest and hardest decision is to decide.

It's back to your 100 days question five minutes ago.You can see why I'm neatly tying this up with a bow.It's all right.Don't worry.I'm lying.I recognise it.

And I've referred back to it.Yeah, the hardest thing is to work out what are the priorities.What are the things that are actually achievable?in a relatively sensible time frame?And what are the things that will take longer?

So what's in the, let's call them the entry, the immediate entry, and then the bigger entry.Liz Truss obviously made the mistakes of trying to run before she could walk and doing everything immediately, saying we've only got two years, we've only got two years, let's do it all now.And obviously we saw what happened there.That said, you're going to have to announce a lot of what you intend to do first.in order to get it in your manifesto, in order to be able to get it through the Lords, in order to make it a manifesto commitment and therefore stop the Lords blocking a lot of stuff that they're probably not going to want to do.Are you worried that the scale of things is going to scare the horses before the election?

And actually, if you write down you're going to leave the ECHR, you're going to abolish the Human Rights Act, you're going to tear up the Equalities Act, you're going to, I can't remember what the OBR policy is, but all these things that you've said you're going to want to do.Are you worried that you're going to actually almost sort of scare people off?before you actually get a chance to do it.

Voters or the establishment?Both.No, I think voters.I mean, the last poll I saw said that 74 % of the population agree that Britain is broken.And if you accept something's broken, then you realise that only radical change, that's all you can do to change things.All right, it's fine.

I mean, Kemi says Britain's not broken.Great.Keir says Britain's not broken.Fine.I believe Britain is broken at every level.I think most of the, and I know most of the electorate out there say that.

So is this a country ready for some radical change, and frankly, for some quite tough medicine in some areas.

Is it really for tough medicine?Because I was polling out last week by Merlin Strategy and Charlesby that said, you know, 62 % of the country doesn't want to cut the benefits bill.They want to tax billionaires and businesses to keep sustaining the levels of public spending that we have.

Politics isn't about followership.It's about leadership.It's about leadership.Do you know, most of the issues that I've championed over the years, right, and people call me a populist.I'm not, absolutely not, in any way at all.Why?

Probably.Probably.

Got some 1970s South America ring to that.

No.I have picked up and campaigned on issues that were minority issues.Minority issues because they weren't being debated.Minority issues because there was a wall of consensus in the opposite direction.And I've fought for those ideas, and many of them now have become mainstream ideas.So on this business of tax, do you think people who earn millions of pounds a year should be taxed heavily?

Everyone says yes.Until you say, well, hang on.If they all leave and your taxes go up, which would you prefer?But no one's making these arguments in public life.It was the Conservatives.It was Osborne who began it.

And then it was Jeremy Hunt as Chancellor who killed off the non -Doms.And so people just leave.And many have gone.Many, many have gone.But we're now in a different wave of this.We're actually what we've got are 30 -somethings, ambitious young people leaving the country in increasing numbers.

We need successful people.We need our top taxpayers to stay in this country.30 % of all tax is paid by 1 % of the population.And that figure, so I will make these arguments even if Merlin strategies say right at this moment in time, 62 % won't agree.When people listen to arguments.

But the British public have always wanted They've always wanted European -style public services.Scandinavian levels of taxation for everyone else except for them.It's a contradiction to the heart of the British public.

We can't afford it.So that argument's got to be made.

And you'll make it before the election?

Of course.

Or are you going to tell everyone what they want to hear first and then make the tough choice?

Since when do I ever do that?Since when did I ever do that?

Well, there's a little bit of something for everyone in your current offerings.You're about to start preaching tough love.

I've been doing it for months.You haven't noticed.

I've been paying attention.

No, you haven't.

Yes, I have.You keep in the triple look.You had a big old fantasy.

One in six on universal credit is a foreigner.

Yeah.

Can't go on.

Yeah.

Can't go on.

That is the one thing the British public do agree with you.

Can't go on.Oh, thank you.

Thank you.Oh, isn't that nice?Take away benefits.

Nice, isn't it?

So maybe, I mean, listening to you is amazing.

I'm on more than 2 % really, isn't it?

How are you, though?Are you ready for this?How are you up here about, are you going to live in number 10?

Shouldn't think so.

You wouldn't live in the building?I don't know.

God, that's way down the track.Way, way down the track.

A couple of years ago, you officiallyand you were ready for a nice, cosy retirement.I know.You were taking it easy.And now you've got the prospect of the hardest job in the world at the toughest possible time.

I know.

Are you ready for it?

It's slightly daunting.I'd be a fool not to say that.But I still, in my own mind, You know, it's perfectly fair for you to ask those questions, but I still, in my own mind, see it as being some way off.

I mean, three years of this.

This mob won't last three years.

You reckon?

No.I said in September 24 at our conference, after the first handful had been elected to the Commons, I said at that conference that I thought a 27 -year election would come, and I based that on the economy.I based that on what Labour would do to business confidence, to private sector investment, to employment.And I think the bond markets already are giving us a message.And it's amazing, isn't it?I mean, Andy Burnham says, don't worry about the bond markets.

It'll all be fine, you know.Well, it won't be.It won't be.So I think there is a I think there is a bad time coming economically for the UK, and it's not very far away.So I still think next year is the election.

So you think we could be sitting here in a year's time and you'd be number 10?

Listen, I'm not going to think about that.What I've got to think about is this operation, Reform UK.I'm the CEO.I run this thing.Most of my life is not spent.Most of my life outside of them in the last nine weeks have been on the road most of my life is spent here Most of my life is spent at the office.

Most of my life is spent with with heads of departments Most of my life is spent thinking.How can we improve this?How can we change that?So my mind is on the organisationthe structure, the funding, all of those things, and I'm going to keep focused on that.

And that's the point of building this team, building this place.I remember coming to UKIP HQ for the better part of a decade and a half ago, and it was a bit of a circus, frankly.It was great fun.This feels more like being in a government department.

I think there is a sense of I would like to believe there's a sense of professionalism about what we do, about the work ethic of our staff, but still a great sense of fun.

Are you ready for what the, you know, the blob, the deep state, whatever you want to call it, the Guardian, the Financial Times, the BBC, the charity sector, the National Trust, you name it, they're coming for you, right?Are you ready for that?

Do you know, in many ways, I've had years of it already.

You've given them a fair bit of ammunition, haven't you?You know, what do you think I am?

I mean, you know, Harry, they will, I mean, you know, They will always find something to attack me on.Well, there's five million quid donation, all right?Shouldn't even be in the public domain.Shouldn't even be in the public domain.And that really, in a sense... is back to your question, you know, because things are, information is obtained that shouldn't even be public.

It's a disgrace.Public figures, the level of public life that you're in, this happens, right?I know.You can say, I'm not condoning, you know, if you've said it's obtained by nefarious means, it's out there.Yeah.Are you 100 % confident that the Electoral Commission or the Standards Commissioner are going to claim?

It's got nothing to do with the Electoral Commission.Standards Commission has opened an investigation.Of course it has, if you get a complaint.you have to...I had five of these when I was in Brussels.Five fraud investigations into me when I was an MEP.

They came round on an annual basis.As far as this is concerned, I'm not the least bit concerned.

Do you not worry about what the punters think, though, in terms of...It is unusual.My mate lent me a tenner.to get a couple of beers, five million quid.

It's a hell of a lot.I know.And it's very unusual for someone to give up 27 years of their life to campaign for something.And this was given to me on an unconditional basis, completely unconditional basis.But frankly, it was given as a reward for campaigning for Brexit for 27 years.

And it had no impact on your decision to come back into public life?

He who pays the piper picks the tunes.Hang on a second.Hang on a second.I can't be bought by anybody.

Yeah?Look down that camera and say, I cannot be bought by anyone.

I can't be bought by anybody.No, not anyone.Not even Elon Musk.

Yeah, what happened there?He tried to get you to, what, pledge a load of policies?

Well, he wanted to give us a load of money if I said certain things publicly, and I refused.

What did he want you to say?

Well, this and that.But I didn't do it.I didn't do it.So I made an enemy of Elon Musk, but that shows you I'm my own man. I make my own mind up.

And you're 100 % confident that the Standards Commission is going to clear you on this one?Yeah.

By the way, I have to come clean about my personal MP expenses.They're zero.Zero.

Staffing costs.

No, no.I haven't claimed, since I was elected a couple of years ago, I haven't claimed a penny of personal expenses.

You haven't made two million quid on the side, though.But so what?You don't think that's a...When you see everyone lather themselves up into getting annoyed about it, you just think, well, it didn't do Donald Trump any harm being loaded, right?

Do you know what people in Clacton say?Good luck to you, mate.

Yeah?They don't care.No one cares.

They care if you're a crook, which I'm not and never have been.But the fact that I made a few quid doing things, this doesn't worry people at all.

And you think it's just noise.Yeah.So how long do you mean?These things take months and months.

Oh, they drag along for years.I don't.Listen, I'm not in the least bit worried about it.I'm utterly confident.I've got good lawyers, good accountants.I've done nothing wrong anywhere at all.

We're entirely confident.

Do you think the, what is called either the blob in the UK or the deep state in the US, you know, that sort of, you know what I'm talking about.

Yeah.

Are going to play fair with you?Probably not.I mean, that's the thing.They tried to jail Donald Trump.They tried to, you know, they tried to render him unfit for office.You saw, you know, you can disagree with Boris Johnson on many things, but it was a fairly unusual punishment they gave, meted out to him.

You know, Are you ready to take on dirty tricks?

I've got to be.I've got no choice.

Do you worry that's going to be one of those big old fences that we talk about?

It's one of them.

But you still think you're going to win?All right.So this time next year, we'll do this again in the Downing Street Rose Garden.

I don't know.

I don't want it to be something like that.

I don't know, Harry.But I just think, I think this political movement has caught the mood.It's crossed the British class system in a way that no party's ever done before.It's crossing geographies, unlike any other party at the moment.We're winning seats in the Valleys of Wales to the North East of Scotland.We're literally across the whole country.

We're competitive everywhere, apart from the odd inner London borough.

And bits of central Manchester.I mean, you look at that map of Manchester, it looks like an eye now, with a green dot in the middle and a turquoise around the outside.

Greater Manchester was one of our hugest victories last week.Incredible what we've done.So there might be little dots in the middle of some of these cities, but basically we're competitive pretty much everywhere across the United Kingdom.As I say, we've united classes in a way that politics just didn't used to do.

Why then are you, I don't know, final question.We're going to take us back to the original one of that 30%.Is it going to go higher than that?Tell me the last brand new party that hit 30%.The SDP.

For a fortnight.For a fortnight.

You know the SDP?

For a fortnight.This is, what we've done is remarkable.There's further to go and we'll get there.

Nigel Farage, thank you very much.Thank you.