IRAN DISERANG, DUNIA BERGEJOLAK, INDONESIA DIAM?

With the murder of Ali Khamenei, this is clearly the first escalation. The second escalation of this war is when Iran destroyed all military bases. The third escalation is... Why did I say that America and Israel are already in a stalemate? First, they are fighting, both black and white. This war is to overthrow the regime.

Don't be influenced by the ideas of the Sunni-Shiite ideology.

This is a matter of humanity.

So if you say that Iran is Shiite, it's impossible to help Hamas, Jihad Islam, Sunni.

No.

The ideology is the same, anti-Zionist. Iran is what makes the Palestinian people have dignity. They can fight through Hamas, Jihad Islam, and other militias in Gaza. It's very naive if we still believe that America is for Palestine. President Trump's peace talks are... ...well, it's just weird.

The BOP is discriminatory. They want to make peace in Gaza, but Palestine is not allowed to be there. That's obvious. It's a plan to kill a nation. Hello, brothers and sisters. Happy fasting for those who are fasting.

I'm glad to meet you again on this broadcast. As usual, I always try to speak honestly and frankly in this forum, while sharing my views on politics, law, and government. In this episode, I have invited and have been present with us my friend, a former war journalist and a Middle East observer, Faisal Assegaf. He has a lot of experience, understanding, lot of journalistic work for the Middle East.

So it is appropriate that I invite you now, because if I have to be frank, I don't do much, so I invite a friend who can explain it clearly. Thank you for being here. You're welcome, Mr. Alford. Watch and follow this discussion until the end so you can get a complete understanding of what we are discussing and we are concerned about together.

Okay, let's start. Please, what do you want to ask, Mr. Rizal, to me and to Faisal?

Yes, sir.

Please. We will ask a lot to Faisal. Later, Mr. Mahfud and I will ask to Faisal. I add, Mr. Mahfud, Faisal is not only a former East Central officer, but also a person who has been close to the Middle East because he often goes there for journalistic tasks.

And I think Faisal also got information, maybe from the parties involved. And we need to know what it is like. Sometimes there are many things that appear in the media, but nothing that we hope will appear from Faisal's view today. Thank you, Faisal, for coming.

For coming to the studio so many times. I will go straight to the point. We are talking about the fourth day of the war, the war against Iran from the United States and Israel. How big is the impact of that war now, and how far has the war gone now, if we look at it from the escalation point of view?

Maybe before I answer that question, so that many people understand why Iran has always been the enemy, why the attitude of other Muslim countries is like gray. There is a difference. When all Muslim countries, including Iran, are pro-Palestinian, but only Iran is anti-Zionist.

Iran has been saying that it is hostile since 1979, since the Islamic revolution. They are pro-Palestinian plus anti-Zionist. They are saying that they are hostile to Israel, and automatically hostile to America. That's why other Muslim countries,

which are only pro-Palestinian, are be hostile to America. That is why other Muslim countries, which are only pro-Palestine, are not hostile to Israel. Finally, we know that there is normalization of the Abraham agreement. So, because they are not hostile in terms of the regime, they do not declare hostility to Israel.

So, Israel is not considered as an enemy, even though Israel is a Palestinian invader. Well, it is related to... Because of that, Iran is always discredited, and propagated, including nuclear issues. After the victory of the Iranian Islamic Revolution in 1979,

the first leader, the first supreme leader, was Ayatollah Imam Khomeini, the leader of the Iranian Islamic Revolution, issued a fatwa, prohibiting the production of mass destruction weapons, whether chemical weapons, biological weapons, or nuclear weapons.

There is a fatwa from the command, right?

Yes, and it has never been removed until the Supreme Leader died last Saturday. So, the propaganda is actually clear that it is fake propaganda because Iran already has that fatwa and it has been followed until now. The second, Iran has shown a good gesture. It means that it wants to cooperate with the International Agency for International Cooperation, allowing the inspection team to come. That's clear.

There is a runaway that can be a decision. That's clear. It was not found at all that Iran wanted to produce nuclear weapons. Because they obeyed the fatwa of the leader of the revolution, Imam Khomeini. It was not found at all that Iran wanted to produce nuclear weapons. Because they obeyed the fatwa of the leader of the revolution, Imam Khomeini. And the fatwa has never been removed.

So, all those accusations are false. Like when Trump accused Saddam Hussein, with Tony Blair, that he was making mass destruction weapons. But in the end, it was proven that the accusation was a lie. What was interesting was that Trump discredited Khamenei with a very sensitive issue, the religious issue. So he told Fox News that Khamenei was killed when he was having breakfast with his close circle. Breakfast during the month of Ramadan? It's true. Breakfast on Ramadhan. Yes, it's a false accusation. It's impossible for a Muslim leader to have breakfast on Ramadhan.

That's what Trump said in Fox News. That's how it is. If you look at the difference between the war of June 12th and the war now, the war was Iran against Israel. America as a cover. The one that bombed Isfahan and everything. Yes, the nuclear facility, Isfahan, then the zoo and Fordo.

After that, Iran was given a response to attack Al Udeid. But now America is attacking from the beginning. Well, before that, the Iranian officials have warned that if America attacks Iran, automatically with Israel, then the base will be a real target. Well, Iran has proven that. So when the war last year...

Iran has reminded that if America attacks, then the bases around the area will be attacked by Iran. Yes. It means Iran is warning that to prevent America from attacking. All this time, if we look at America, Trump and Netanyahu always claim Iran is a threat to world peace,

for peace in the area, stability in the area. But we have never seen Iran first time to launch aggression to other countries. Never? Never. So, with the murder, it is actually an insult to Iran. Twice in two years.

During the war last year, in just three hours, six senior commanders were killed. Including the five armed forces, General Muhammad Bagiri, then the Revolutionary Guard Commander, General Hussein Salami. Now, the same thing is repeated. The five armed forces are also dead, namely Abdul Rahim Musawi, and Commander of the Revolutionary Guard, Muhammad Pakpur. The five armed forces are the Minhan, right?

Yes, Minhan.

Different.

Different. Now there is Minhan who is also dead. Minhan also died. Minhan, yes, Amir Nasirzadeh also died. Was he with the dead body on the first day? On the first day. So, there is a suspicion that Mossad is already in Iran.

There is an infiltration. Because Ahmadinejad, the former president of Iran, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, once said, Iran formed an anti-Mossad team. Even though Mossad itself was inside. Since 2010, Mossad has been carrying out a mission to kill Iranian nuclear scientists. The most phenomenal was in November 2002, when Mossad managed to kill the head of the Iranian nuclear program,

Mohsin Fahrizadeh. I once visited his grave in Tehran. So, with the murder of Ali Khamenei, it is clear that this was the first escalation. Then the second escalation from this war was when Iran destroyed all military bases in Iraq, in Jordan, in Saudi Arabia, in the United Arab Emirates, Bahrain, Kuwait, Qatar, and also in Oman. That was the second escalation. The third escalation was when Hezbollah had already landed.

Yes, that was yesterday, the third day. Yes, Hezbollah had already announced, and Hezbollah had already attacked. It attacked Haifa, and then attacked the British base in Cyprus. Now, if Al-Hussein from Yemen… He started as a proxy of Iran in Lebanon. So, he was a member of the CIA. Then, Al Hussein, on the first day of the war, he said he would fight with Iran against America and Israel.

If you look at the Gaza war, from early October 2023 to October 2025, Al-Qudsiyun targeted the American and Israeli merchant ships, or those that had connections with the United States and Israel in the Red Sea. That was the third escalation.

But then, people realized when Ali Khamenei passed away,

people started to think, as soon as the second day, it was already possible to attack.

So, people imagined that this war would not last long. Ali Khamenei passed away. People were thinking, as soon as the second day, he could have been killed.

So people imagined that the war would not last long. Iran would be defeated soon. But it turns out that Iran is still holding on. What made Iran, after the death of its highest leader, the power is still there, and it can even defeat the US facilities in the region.

What made it like that?

First, the death of the Iranian highest leader cannot be called a defeat. Because in a country, it already has a succession system mechanism. It is already strong as a government system. If we look at the time when Hamas leader Yassin War died, and before that Ismail Hania, for an organization alone, it already has a good succession system.

Especially Iran as a country. So, the election will be held by the expert council, with the members of the Ayatollahs who are elected from all provinces, the total number of members is 88. While waiting for the new highest ruling leader, there is already a presidium that now leads Iran. The president is President Massoud Pezeskian,

then the head of the Supreme Court, Gulam Hussein Reza Ijai, and finally Ayatullah Ali Reza Arafi. He is a member of the expert council. So, indeed, for Ayatullah, he must be elected from the expert council. He is temporarily in charge of the highest level the leader, until later, he is permanently elected. So, Mujadaba Hamein is just one of the candidates who will be elected? One of the candidates. He is the son of Mendiang Ali Hameini. The next question, then people are surprised

when, for example, the third development yesterday, Saudi Arabia lost its oil, was attacked Saudi Arabian oil spill. People were panicking. This is a conflict between the countries at that time, and then they were considered as Islamic countries. One and the other must be separated.

What do you see from Iran's destruction of energy infrastructure in the region? Yes, I'm sure there must be an emotional side to it. As a reaction to the death. As we know, at Jamkaran Mosque, the red flag was raised. Jamkaran is a mosque in KOM. So, it is a sign of sadness and anger.

So, it is normal. The red flag was raised as a sign of anger. As a sign of sadness and anger. So, it was. As a form of anger. As a form of sadness as well as anger. So it's only natural. That's why I feel sorry for Iran when it finally targeted Dubai airport. Exactly.

Kuwait airport. It's very regrettable because it has nothing to do with the interests of America or Israel. Especially yesterday, Rastanura. And now the US embassy has been targeted. The one last night in Riyadh, the one before that was also a big embassy. Cut it out.

Why if it has nothing to do with the US interests, like Dubai, why is it targeted? Why is it targeted by Iran? From the perspective of Iran, why should it be Dubai? If I look at it this way, besides the airport,

there is a high-rise building in Dubai. Iran claims that is where the American military personnel lives. And also there is a place Where? In Bursa-Liwa?

No, in the building of Dubai. That is also where the Israeli agents live. That is what Iran claims. But why did Iran attack the Dubai airport? Maybe it's an emotional side, Mr. Mahfud. I don't know why either.

But what's clear is that this war is different from the war last year. This war created economic pillars in the Middle East, especially in the Arabian Peninsula, like. Like Dubai, Dubai is a tourist destination. If the airport is closed, there is no flight, it means there will be no tourists. Then Saudi Arabia, Saudi Arabia exports the largest oil, then produces the second largest oil after Venezuela, if I'm not mistaken.

After Russia, sorry, but it is the second the second largest after Venezuela. If the oil is the target, the oil supply will be disrupted, not only for Europe, but also for America, and also for other countries, including Indonesia. So, as the foreign minister of Iran, Abbas Araqchi, and the previous Iranian officials said, that this war will be different from the previous war. It will be different from the previous war.

And Alirajani, the head of the National Security Council, has said, we are ready to fight long with America or Israel.

That's what Alirajani said?

Alirajani has stated that. And we see, on the second day, America and Israel are already in a stalemate. Stalemate in the sense of this, they seem to have not learned from the war last year

when Iran can finally what is the term, crush the capital city, Tel Aviv, Haifa. Now add Jerusalem. Jerusalem has also been targeted. It was targeted and if I am not mistaken, the last one was 9 and 40 people were injured.

So, I see, why did I say that America and Israel had been in a stalemate? First, they had a quarrel, both Trump and Netanyahu. This war is to overthrow the a plan to replace the regime. Then in the US, we know the latest survey from the Gold Up, the sympathy of the American people to Palestine is greater than the sympathy of the American people to Israel. That was the first time.

So, there is a survey. If I'm not mistaken, it was a goal up in the US. That shows that the war that Trump has waged this time, was definitely not approved by the American people. Because we know that when the Trump administration, and Biden supported the two-year genocide in Gaza, there was a demonstration every day.

In the campuses, on the streets, in the big cities, there were thousands of demonstrations. Even in Indonesia, we lost at that time, in America, or in Sydney, or in Australia, in France, in Spain. So, first, it was the two, it seemed that the two were already in a stalemate, America and Israel, when they finally said,

let's go down to the streets, finish our mission. Because they realized that they couldn't carry out the regime through air strikes, no matter where. So, to overthrow the regime, there are only two scenarios. First, to raise people power. Second, to invade. That's what America has done with other multinationals when it overthrew the Saddam regime. But people power is now even pro-Iran, pro-the government itself.

Yes, that's right. Hundreds of thousands of people, that's crazy. But the people power is now pro-Iran, pro-the government itself.

Hundreds of thousands of people. It's crazy. The number is far from... The groups outside Iran that protest, it's very small compared to this. Even though it was provoked by Trump.

Trump said, this is your opportunity to get back your country. Something like that. They were asked to get involved, but then they… They can do whatever they want, they are just a few, they are outside the country.

That's right. I'm going back to what I said earlier, Sal, about the escalation. So, in the Faisal calculation, it's not just because of the emotion towards America and Israel, because the third leader died. But the confusion with them,

the six countries that were invaded, from the United Arab Emirates, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Kuwait, to the top, it was really cut off because in the Iranian calculation, it will be crushed. Besides, in principle, when Arab countries allow the allow America to have a base in their country, it means that they directly support the American hegemony there. Support Zionism there. Because America there is for the interests of Israel. In principle, they are right to be the target. Because they give permission for the US base there.

Because if the base is not attacked, it will be the basis for the US to continue attacking Iran. And if they have to attack the US, they don't have missiles that are very far, the distance is 5000 km, right? The furthest is 200,000 km. But Iran has tested ballistic missiles from intercontinental ballistic missiles. And it worked. But it was just a trial period.

It means that they had to make a prototype, then they tested it. It's the same with Israel. Israel has produced anti-rocket, anti-missile laser weapons. But it was just the initial prototype. It was already installed. That's why I'm still wondering why it wasn't used yet. It wasn't used in the war yet.

It was saved as the last weapon.

Maybe. We don't want to say who won in the early phase. But if we count it, it's been said that Tehran was defeated first. But then the attack on Israel was also limited and all kinds of things. So, the size of what Iran can do is

to defeat the military bases in the area. In six countries, there are six, there is Jordan too. I can't get to America, but I can spend the money of my friends around me. That's your facility. That's the point of victory, if we talk about what Iran has done.

That's the first point of victory.

But the most fundamental point is that when a country has been militarily and economically embargoed since 1979, because of the anti-Zionist and the US, it's been decades. If it's been 1979 until now, it means 47 years. And it can still give resistance. And the resistance is great. And how can the military bases be defeated by the hypersonic missile.

And the people are relatively prosperous, Iran said. It means that the elderly who have the disease are guaranteed to take their medicines every month. The prosperity, right? Yes, the prosperity. So, I had a personal experience when I was sick in Iran in Tehran in 2024. I bought three types of medicines, the price was only one dollar. It means that it was around ten thousand.

The price of three types of medicines, cough medicine, fever reducer, and fever medicine. It was very cheap.

Try it in our country, maybe more than 100 thousand for three medicines. There are three types of medicines, cough medicine, heat-reducing medicine, and fever medicine. They are all very cheap.

In Indonesia, the price of three medicines is more than Rp100,000 when I was sick in Iran. So, I proved that it is really cheap there. research there, a professor at the University of Indonesia, Mr. Jakti. So he saw that the Muslim communities' benefits were shared through the RTRT, and everything was registered as social assistance to them. People in need were given medical insurance So, it's not bad there. That's why the people are good, they appreciate the government,

unless of course there is a little bit. That's why I want to follow up on that. From the good points you told us earlier, but there is still criticism towards the government, right? As a theocracy country, it is considered as freedom in the Kekang and all kinds of things. Do you see any criticism towards the Iranian government like now? That is a criticism of one of the former Prime Minister Reza Pahlavi.

If you look at it from the other side, the system of the kingdom is the same, a dictator. In the era of Reza Pahlavi, there was a police, a secret police. It is much more, it is the same. Well, my experience of going to Iran three times, I was also surprised. safak-safak polisi rahasia. Itu jauh lebih sama artinya. Nah pengalaman saya tiga kali ke Iran, saya juga kaget. Jilbab yang disebut menurut ya aturan mereka, ternyata kerudung yang masih kelihatan rambut enggak ada masalah. Di sana saya banyak ketemu, di mall, di jalan-jalan. Jadi kerudung doang. I saw that the regime has started to adapt.

Adapt in the sense that we know if we look at social media, there are Iranian girls who don't wear a veil, they ride a roller coaster on the street. Maybe they've never been to the streets. But I saw that the regime has started to adapt. I saw that the regime has started to adapt. I saw that the regime has started to adapt. adaptive. Adaptive in the sense that we know if we look at social media, there are Iranian girls

who don't wear a veil, they ride a roller coaster on the street. Maybe you've seen it. That's part of it. It means that Iran is not as tight as the West. This is exactly the same as when I went to Gaza in 2012. When Hamas was in power, the tough Islamic Saud Muslim, I can greet a woman on the street, I can greet her, I can shake her hand. So that's anonymous propaganda, right?

Yes, it can be like that.

Because the term theocracy is only about the value of the deity, and within the government's mechanism, it can be democracy.

It can be democracy.

That's the proof. In Pakistan, there is a term called theodemocracy. Theodemocracy is a democracy of God. The values for humanity and nature, are God's, who set,

who inspired for the goodness of nature and the people of humanity. But the mechanism is there are voters, there is parliament, that is democracy. So, people deliberately create an image on the part of certain people that Iran is really bad with its theocracy, or to Chadar, or whatever.

In fact, no, the people there are comfortable. Same as before, when the Cold War still happened, our image of the Soviet Union was a scary country. The Soviet Union, it was anti-religious, anyone could be lost there. I went there several times, the religious life was good, the mosque was good, and so on and so forth.

It was actually propaganda, it was bad for a country. Therefore, we also have to try to understand this in an adult way in a situation like this. Don't let theocracy be opposed to democracy. That's the problem. It's like if a country is a theocracy, the Islamic Sharia that must be implemented,

there should be no freedom and all that. That's what has been happening all this time. Including the campaign outside, the diaspora were really happy to be shouting, this is the time for this. Okay, I'll continue, Sal.

So, Sal, if we say that the target of Trump and Netanyahu is to change the regime, do you see the possibility of that? There is a possibility, because Trump has opened Do you think that the US will not look at Iran in that direction? It is possible. Because Trump has already opened in an interview with CNN, Trump was asked, are you ready to invade? He said, I have no doubt to send troops. But the problem is, looking at the history of the US, it can't win in Afghanistan,

it can't win in Iraq. That's a country that if compared to Iran, is far away. Afghanistan, Afghanistan, Afghanistan, Afghanistan, Afghanistan, Afghanistan, Afghanistan, Afghanistan, Afghanistan, Afghanistan, Afghanistan, Afghanistan, Afghanistan, Afghanistan, Afghanistan, Afghanistan, Afghanistan, Afghanistan, Afghanistan, Afghanistan, Afghanistan, Afghanistan, Afghanistan, Afghanistan, Afghanistan, Afghanistan, Afghanistan, Afghanistan, Afghanistan, Afghanistan, Afghanistan, Afghanistan, Afghanistan, Afghanistan, Afghanistan, Afghanistan, Afghanistan, Afghanistan, Afghanistan, Afghanistan, Afghanistan, Afghanistan, Afghanistan, Afghanistan, Afghanistan, Afghanistan, Afghanistan, Afghanistan, Afghanistan, Afghanistan, Afghanistan, Afghanistan, Afghanistan, Afghanistan, Afghanistan, Afghanistan, Afghanistan, Afghanistan, Afghanistan region, in Iran, the good people, the good people in Sunni have a special position, especially in the West. So whoever is a good person, they get respect. That's why the highest leaders in Iran must be from the good people. So what do the good people say? The people will follow. That's in the context of the highest leaders.

But in the context of democracy in leader, but in the context of democracy in Iran, Iran also allows demonstrations. We know that when Ahmadinejad was elected in 2009, there were big demonstrations to reject the election because there was a betrayal. That means that in the democratic system, it still works in Iran. But when it comes to the highest leader,

he cannot say no when he has decided something.

So, there is a small possibility that the possibility of the creation of a state of theocracy will still exist. Who is the chosen one among the people who are being discussed?

Because the Iranian constitution has made it mandatory for the Supreme Leader to defend the oppressed people, the weak people.

That's why Palestine was defended.

And Iran, if I'm not mistaken, is the country that most honestly defended Palestine. Seriously. When other Muslim countries talk about conferences, meetings, which have never been

followed by Israel or the US. Then they also just came when the so-called Palestinian bodies were scattered. Iran is the one who made the Palestinian people have dignity. They can fight through Hamas, Jihad Islam and other militias in Gaza. They know they are not equal, but they do not insult when they are attacked because they can fight.

Iran is the one who helped to form Hamas, Jihad Islam. We see that during the two years war, there were two or three delegations from Hamas and Jihad Islam who met with Neidi Tehran to express their gratitude and to give an update. So, if we say that Iran is the one who helped Hamas, Jihad Islam, no, the ideology is the same, anti-Zionist.

Anti-Zionist. Anti-Zionist. If Hamas and Zionism are the struggle of nationalism, this is the principle of an Islamic country to help the oppressed. We were talking about Hezbollah, the proxy of Iran in Lebanon. By the way, I heard from Faisal before we started, the jacket you're wearing is Hezbollah's brand.

Tell us, is it true that it's the Isbullah brand jacket? Yes, people sometimes ask me why I always wear this jacket.

Oh, really?

This jacket has a history. I got this jacket from the Isbullah army when I went to South Lebanon in 2007.

2007?

Yes. So, if you... 18 years ago, right? Yes, this jacket is older than my second child. But I also had a bad experience with Hezbollah. I was arrested and accused of being an eye-witness during the war in 2024. You were detained?

I was detained for 29 hours in a terrorist cell. Fortunately, the money I had as a souvenir, was hidden in Gaza. I want to emphasize. Palestine is not a country yet, I want to emphasize. Because they are still using Israeli money.

So, the money was 250 shekels, about 80 dollars. So, when I was arrested in Hezbollah, in Dahiya, Dahiya is a Shiite base in Beirut, the majority of Hezbollah supporters. In Lebanon, there are two Shiite parties, Shiite Hezbollah and the Amal.

I was stopped because I was recording the road there. Dahiyya was bombed by Israel every day. So, there was a foreigner recording a video there. It was a very sensitive matter. I was stopped, his car was stopped, his handphone and passport were stolen,

intimidated, interrogated. Then I was brought to the Intelligence Bula office, there was also interrogated. But because I have a journalist visa, and also from Indonesia, I feel that it is positive value. Because Indonesia has never been involved in a conflict in other countries. That's what makes me calm. About the jacket, how is the story? Does he feel that you are a friend, a friend, so you give him a jacket or what?

It's okay. When I was detained, I didn't go home. So, that was 2007. So, when I went to Ainkona, there, in the south, the Israel headquarters, headquarters, Mar Jayun, and all that. Well, I got to know them. Because I already knew the leaders of Hezbollah. One of them was a member of parliament, and also a former spokesman, Ibrahim Al-Musawi. I also interviewed the head of Hezbollah's faction in parliament, Muhammad Hassan Ra'ad. Have you interviewed Hassan Nasrallah? So when I interviewed Hassan Rahat, Heezbullah has a media office,

it's called Ayah Ahmad, a woman. So when I interviewed, the interview process was funny. So I was told to wait on the street, someone will pick me up later. The one who picked me up, usually wore a black Heezbullah shirt,

rode a scooter, I was asked to travel around the region, and I ended up in a building that was already damaged due to the Israel bombing. I met Mohamed Hassan Raat inside. That was in 2007. After that, I registered, and I met a reporter from Europe.

I registered for a Nasrallah interview. So, I registered first. I wanted to meet Nasrallah, I wanted to do something. So, my passport and ID were stored in Hisbullah's database.

Did you get the interview? No, I didn't get it until now. Because it was difficult. The strategy was not good. The Hornus' slot was closed. Even though it was

a way for Iran to export oil and other things. Iran and other countries are closed, sir. Yes, if other countries are closed, it's okay. But they are also affected by it. What is the strategy?

First, the world's energy source is still oil. To start a war engine, we need oil. When the troops were detained, the price of oil on the first day of the lockdown, if I'm not mistaken, was increased by 8 dollars per barrel.

I'm sure mistaken, it was opened and it increased by 8 dollars per barrel. I'm sure, when Iran, Iran is, if I'm not mistaken, the world's fourth largest oil reserve. After Venezuela, Saudi Arabia, Russia, Iran is the fourth largest. I'm sure their oil production is abundant, they already have a stock, a reserve. If it is, it must be closed. That's why the price of BBM in Iran is only about 500 rupiah per liter. So, everything becomes cheap. So, what is targeted is America and its allies, Europe, which has already announced, has put the Islamic Revolution Guard as a terrorist organization.

Yesterday, Trump asked for permission from the British Prime Minister, Starmer, to use the US military base in Cyprus. The British base. The British base in Cyprus. Does that mean that he is being over-confident because the military base around Iran has been occupied? That's why he asked for asked the British permission to use it

can it be changed like that?

yes, it is true so because what is really not allowed to be used is in Bahrain Bahrain Bahrain has been used at all because every day it is bombed then also in the United Arab Emirates

in Abu Dhabi if I'm not mistaken the name of the base is in the area ofavra area. It's also bombed every day. So, the most frequently bombed area is Bahrain, Adhavra, and Doha. Doha is also unrecognizable. Because the radar was destroyed. So, that is indeed one of the signs of defeat. When the New York Times report said that we only need four days,

it turns out that Trump said we need four or five weeks.

Four to five weeks?

Or maybe more. Netanyahu was the same. He said, in his last speech, we need time, we need patience. And he said, we need a few weeks to target the regime. But there was already awareness from several senators,

especially from Democrats, including Republicans. Lindsey Graham said, it is impossible to target the regime. So, the target is to weaken Iran's power so as not to threaten the interests of America and Israel. So, various targets, targets that are confused from America and Israel, up to this point, if you look at it, according to Faisal, Iran has won so far, right?

So, it will never be achieved.

The target will never be achieved.

It will never be achieved.

To overthrow the regime. Because we see hundreds of thousands of people who were killed during the Hamenei regime. The term shows their love. But again, because they use the majority of the people who love the good people,

it is difficult to overthrow the regime. So, up to this moment, the discussion about Faisal is getting more interesting. If you haven't subscribed, please do so. We will get more additional information like this. I will continue, Mr. Mahfud, to Faisal. Now, to the conclusion.

I want to get an image. We got an image from Faisal. How long will this go on? If Trump corrected, maybe he imagined a daily, but then he said 4-5 weeks, how long would it take for Faisal to get there? And what would be the outcome of the process?

First, Iran has rejected the offer of arms sanctions.

That has happened before.

The one offered by Italy, through Iran?

Yes. Why? Because Iran is not the one who started it. Iran defended itself, especially since the highest leader has passed away. It means that it's not... It's already a red line.

If you want to go to the military,

you're the one who stopped first,

I think. So, this war can only be ended with two scenarios. First, America and Israel stopped attacking. Pulling themselves back.

Yes. stop attacking. Pulling themselves back. Yes, after the war, no longer. But, there is another thing, Iran wants to accept that. If Iran says, I haven't answered enough, the war will continue. So, the ball is actually in Iran's hands.

In Iran's hands. So, it is very visible when the day difference becomes a week, it is already visible that Trump and Netanyahu are in a stalemate. That was the first. What was the second? The second was that Iran had stopped the retaliation attack.

But it was impossible to do. Because if Iran stopped, the US and Israel would definitely attack back. I am more confident in Fisal's analysis. Because we see that many analyses outside Iran are just waiting for the right time because the power is far away. But it turns out that it is also propaganda.

Part of the propaganda is that Iran is weak. It has been years since I have been working to observe it, came there and wrote a lot about it, many of which are more accurate. So it is possible that such a thing will happen. Iran will do total opposition to this. So we hope that justice on the face of this world,

between countries, between nations, and so on, can be truly established. Sometimes justice must be achieved through hard methods, only then can it be created. As it is said, that peace must be built through war. And maybe that will happen. And Iran may fight. Now, it is related to Russia and China.bargoed by the US in a military economy, by Europe in a military economy,

one of the ways was to go to Russia and China, because that was the US antithesis in the Middle East. They worked together in defense. We know that Iran and China almost agreed on buy anti-ship missiles, the CM302, which can only be used to intercept missiles. That's why before the war, Hamenei had already posted on his ex-girlfriend's account, Hamenei.ir,

a photo and a video of him diving two ships. There's a video of the recreation. With the bullets, they were used to attack two Indian ships, Abraham Lincoln and Gerald Ford. Wait a minute. There is news that Abraham Lincoln's Indian ship was attacked and was thrown out of the position. I don't know if it's true. The video with the photo was not yet made, but I got the information that it was already moving to Oman. That's what I heard.

Moving to Oman? Moving to Oman, yes. So, it's no longer in the middle of the Arabian Peninsula, if I'm not mistaken. It's no longer there. The Arabian Peninsula, if I'm not mistaken. Back to the selection process,

according to you, who are the potential candidates to replace Ali Khamenei in the current process? Who are they and what are their figures? If you look at Iran's interests now. The first thing I want to emphasize emphasize that Iran is a big country, but they can practice as a big country.

So, it's not just talking, it's not claiming that we are a big country. One example is that to be the president of Iran, it requires a minimum education of S2, and has an executive experience of 5 years. S2 minimum education? Minimum S2. Because to run a government, you can't just do it randomly.

In our country, it's SMA. In our country, the requirement to be president.

In our country, it's SMA.

SMA, S2.

That shows that Iran values civilization. Because the knowledge of education is part of civilization. Their civilization has been thousands of years. Before the birth of Prophet Muhammad part of civilization. Their civilization has been around for thousands of years. Before the birth of Prophet Muhammad, they have ruled the world.

If the president is the only condition, especially for the highest leaders, besides there must be a conversation about how they rule the religion, the ulamas, because the highest leaders are also ulamas. That's why Wilaytul Fakih Ali,

the ruler of Islamic law. That's the candidate's a religious scholar. That's why he's a religious scholar. That's why he's a religious scholar. That's why he's a religious scholar. That's why he's a religious scholar. That's why he's a religious scholar. That's why he's a religious scholar. That's why he's a religious scholar. That's why he's a religious scholar. Imam Khomeini, there were two. And now, the current Supreme Leader is Alireza Arafi.

He was also a candidate. We just have to wait and see who will be elected as the Supreme Leader of Iran. Clearly, it will never change the principle or ideology of Iran, which is anti-Zionist.

Sudan is a great country, the constitution. The opportunity of Reza Pahlavi in America is small. It's small. Because even though he urged a class of Tera Maman Netanyahu to urge the people of Iran to go down to the streets, there was nothing else. And he has no roots in Iran. So, I've seen his passport. His passport was made by Morocco, Monaco, sorry, Monaco.

The nationality is unspecified. It's already been done in Exit. The nationality is unspecified. How can someone who admits not having a nationality, a national family, suddenly they want to go back to being a leader. That's not logical. Now let's look at the impact of the situation in Indonesia and the attitude of the Indonesian government.

So far, we haven't seen, for example, the statement of President Prabowo, that the government statement in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs that, in a correct way, it is concerned about escalating the situation.

What do you think Faisal Elam made, if you look at it from the eyes of the Middle East and Indonesia?

First, President Prabowo wants to mediate. I think Indonesia's government is very weak. In the Middle East, it is weak. We have never seen a big investment from the Central and Eastern Union of the United Nations in Indonesia, even though we have a cultural and emotional closeness. Because our government is weak.

Even the PBB class cannot overcome this war. It means that the steps taken by President Prabowo will not be effective, will not succeed. It should be.

So, you should be a mediator.

Yes. The first thing that President Prabowo should do is to silence President Donald Trump and Prime Minister Netanyahu because they violated international law again. Because of two reasons. One, President Trump is the founder and leader of the Peace Council.

The other is the special secretary of the Peace Council. Isn't it weird? The founder and leader of an institution that uses the name of the Peace Council but attacks other countries. That's already contradictory. That's what needs to be crushed. The second one is, at this moment, President Prabowo has opened the option to go abroad, if this is not for the President of the United States has opened the option for the Palestinians to leave the country. This is a good moment to create peace in Palestine,

and a two-state solution. This means that there is security and stability. These two people, the one who created the mosquito, are creating instability now. By attacking Iran, they have created instability, both politically, in terms of security, and in terms of the economy in the Middle East. They can even have a global impact.

This should be the right moment for President Prabowo to leave the Peace Council. Why was the Peace Council formed in the form of a Trump? Many people say that only Trump can stop the war in Gaza. That's not a technological fact. If it's only Trump, why does it take two years to stop the genocide? Why not from the beginning, from October 2023? So, what Trump did first was to save the face of Netanyahu. Two years of war against the militia for a country as superior to Israel, he couldn't win.

It's not like that.

It's not like that either. That's embarrassing. The second thing Trump did was to save the faces of Muslim leaders. They were just being arrogant. But their relatives, especially the Arab countries, their relatives in the Baltics couldn't do anything. Even though they had a good relationship with America.

They have, there are people who have a relationship like Erdogan, have a relationship, on average, we know there is a saying in Indonesia, open it, like the saying, if we want to make peace, we have to have two sides.

But if we look at Turkey, a country with a majority of Muslims, the first country that has diplomatic relations with Israel since 1945. How can Turkey help to liberate Palestine? Even if they stop the genocide, the Islamic State of Israel, Turkey will not help.

Mr. Mahfud,

if you look at the development, the escalation,

and the situation with the government in Indonesia,

what do you think?

First,

since the beginning of independence, Indonesia has been free and active. Free and active politics. Yes, free and active politics. It means that we are free, not bound by any power, but active in building world peace. Then, the attitude towards Palestine, Indonesia has also been like that since the beginning. The foundation of the Silabandung is also one of the reasons why Bung Karno supports Palestine. Because of what?

Indonesia's independence was initially supported by Egypt, the Arab League, Palestine, etc. when there were not many countries, or even none, when they wanted to recognize Indonesia's independence at that time. So, for that reason, I think Indonesia must return to the active freedom. I think we need to consider the continuation of Indonesia's involvement in the BOP. The Peace Council, the Board of Bishops. Yes, the Board of Bishops. I think we need to consider that because many people see more as a modorot. We know that President Prabowo has the right and the use of certain rights

to make decisions about international relations, because he is the head of the country here. But also, I think, rationally, we must back to the basics of our struggle to support the freedom of all nations, the rights of all nations, including in this case, in a situation like this, Iran too. Indonesia must be in a position that wants to save peace. Therefore, maybe the position in the BUP itu tidak tepat untuk

menyelamatkan perdamaian. Kenapa? Indonesia tidak lewat PBB aja aktif. Kalau memang itu ya. Itu wadah yang resmi. Soal permintaan keluar itu, kemarin disuarakan oleh teman-teman Pak Afud. Para akademisi di UGA meminta itu. Presiden meminta supaya removed from the BOP. Before that, the Ulema of Indonesia, the civil society, they were the same, right?

Because it's better to go through the PPP than the BOP, which is also unclear. Moreover, the BOP is discriminative. They want to make peace in Gaza, but the Palestinians are not allowed to go there. That's clear. It's a plan to kill a nation.

That's why I think Indonesia is not too late in the current situation. First, the people should not be influenced by the Sunni-Shi'a ideology. This is a theocracy. Actually, we are also a combination of ideas of sovereignty. Is Indonesia a sovereign state? Yes, because the basis is the people. But here there is also a religious sovereignty, The spirit of religion should be colored. But here, the religion is just any religion. It is the basis of ideas and sources of inspiration for the development of the nation.

It's the same. The values of God are the same. But there, it is more specific. That's why I think our fun to help Iran is for humanity. Not about the Sunnis and others. That's important. But, we see, I think Mr. Prabowo is also in the process

because he thinks about the position and the right steps for Indonesia.

We don't know.

It's also about what position we should take. Indonesia's position and so on. So, we choose that step because he said, he read something else that might be different from what Faisal read.

Yes, people's perspectives are different, sir.

The government might have a different view. But, the wisdom in a situation like this must be shown. The government must be wise. It must be wise. It's not okay to just continue because it's already been done. It's okay.

Let's say there is a collective mistake, for example. A common mistake that we must admit, then our political direction should be renewed. Especially for the peace of the world, which is the message of our constitution. One of our goals as a country, among the four goals, is to implement world order based on eternal peace. That's how it should be.

That's where our politics should go, and that has been translated by Bung Karno and Bung Hatta. Bung Hatta was the one who stated the framework of free and active politics. Bung Karno then gave support for the independence of nations in Asia and Africa, so that since then, countries that are so strong have emerged and appeared in the international world. So, if the basis of sovereignty is not to be opposed, that we are a people's sovereignty, in Iran there is also a theocracy, but the democracy is running, the mechanism.

In Indonesia there is also a theocracy, the sovereignty of the Almighty God. Then there is also a sovereignty of the country, here, the power is also in the country. There is sovereignty of the people, sovereignty of the country, there is sovereignty of the law. This is also a democracy country. So I think we don't need to debate the concept of theocracy, democracy, and so on. I think this is humanity, world peace.

Every nation has its own ideology, has its own view that must be respected. Then we work together to build world peace. I think that's what Indonesia needs now. Faisal, if for example, those entries, and as you said, the government might have other considerations. You said you will remain in the BOP, the Peace Council. What does that mean? Do we have to be prepared for our troops to be sent there,

to Gaza, and so on?

What will happen in the future?

First, I want to mention our weakness in supporting the Palestinian people's struggle. We only rely on the opening of the constitution. We only rely on the constitution. That the world's agreements must be abolished because it is not in accordance with the principles of human rights. But we never had a set of rules

on how to implement the constitution. That's why there are often controversies when finally religious figures, Muslim clerics, even Yaya Stakhob, at that time as a Jokowi advisor, a member of the press team, who accepted the Israeli government's invitation, it was actually very polemic.

Because we don't have a rule. If we want to be fair, for example, why does the US support Israel so much? They have a positive law, the Jerusalem Embassy Act, signed by President Bill Clinton in 1995. So, America supports Israel, has the constitution. We don't have the rules. That's why this is often used as a barrier.

For example, like yesterday, there were many pro-Zionist, pro-U.I.C. laws. What President Prabowo did was the same. Because there is a barrier there. There are laws in Lebanon that state that any entity, whether individual, political or business,

is prohibited from contacting an individual, political or business entity in Israel. That's a one-year sentence. If the law exists in Indonesia, it's impossible for the President to be present at the peace conference and there to be Netanyahu or the representative of Israel.

Because that would be normalizing. That's what I mean. So that's our weakness. We don't have the rules of the law. That's why everything is clear. clear, it just became a controversy. The President's promise that we can send 8,000 troops there, on a facial basis, what was that like?

It was forced, for example. It was forced, yes. So, the issue was very sensitive, in the country. First, Hamas, there were four Hamas leaders four leaders, first Khalil al-Hayya, then Musa Abu Marzouk, Khalid Misha'al, and finally, Usama Hamdan. What did they say? I've interviewed these three, except for Khalil al-Hayya, I've never met him. The three said, we reject the presence of foreign troops in Gaza, but if it's limited, it's okay.

While the mandate of the ISF is in Gaza. Indonesia is in Rafa, Morocco is in Canyonis, Kazakhstan is in Gaza, and the northern areas, like Hanun, Baidlahia, Jabalia, are in Kosovo. There are five sectors. From these five, four countries that have committed to the negotiations have diplomatic relations with Israel. It means they have interests. Morocco, first, has an interest in this. If Morocco, Morocco wants to follow the Ibrahim Agreement in 2020,

because America promised recognition of its sovereignty over the West Sahara region, which is in conflict with Algeria. So, Morocco is normal for them to join.

There is an interest.

Yes. Kosovo. Oh, one more thing about Kazakhstan. Why did Kosovo finally join here? In the army? Because Kosovo is a country that has not been recognized by many countries. It's the same as Somaliland.

They need to get closer to America, they need to get closer to the US, we need to open up relations with Israel, we need to be more assertive. That's why Kosovo is the first Muslim country to have a large embassy in Jerusalem, not Tel Aviv. So, when they agreed to open diplomatic relations in February 2021, they also opened an embassy in Jerusalem. So, four countries have interests because they have relations with Israel.

Except Indonesia.

What are the interests of Indonesia? With America? In this case, with Israel? And again, Hamas as the host, the original people there. Not like ISIS who withdrew from various places to come and establish an Islamic country. Hamas is the original people there and they are the rulers de facto.

So when the host forbids people to come, does not accept guests, it means that we come as a group, forcing us to come. ISF is like that. Because the concept of ISF is in Gaza.

While the Hamas team until now refuses the presence of foreign troops in Gaza. And we do not imagine our troops

to launch weapons at Hamas fighters.

Yes, it means that in principle, with that rejection, we come there by force. We are just Israel's bait. There is a government excuse, including President Prabowo, that we are here for humanitarian missions. Why do we have to wait for the peace council? Why do we have to wait for the ISF to carry out peace missions?

Forced Israel to open Rafah. The ranks of humanitarian aid are already lined up there. It's been a long time. Where is the ISF office? In Israel? In Israel, in Kiryat Gat. So it's very sensitive.

When the commander from America, the two stars, Indonesia, the commander's representative, it means that we will be there, the commander's representative, to evaluate, see the situation on the ground, to organize operations on the ground every day. So, that's a very sensitive issue. So, if you put it that way, you are indeed worthy of considering it.

Yes. You said that you would re-evaluate it. Yes, what we heard is that seeing the situation like this, the government said that there would be steps to be taken after the BUP. But the development is too fast, so what the government imagined to be the direction now has to change. And because it has to change, and the situation is like that,

I think there is nothing wrong with withdrawing from the BUP. Because if that discredits Palestine, it means that it is against the basis of our constitution. That is why, with all due respect, I think the President now has a reason to reconsider his involvement in the BUP. Why not just go to the PBB? It's better.

Like we are now the Chairperson of the HAM PBB, we can go through the same path. Of course, we haven't heard the real reason from Mr. Prabowo. Why? We are still waiting for other reasons. There are other reasons that can be accepted. Public commonsense

is different. Of course, you have your own calculations as a person who has power, and also a good will, and also has long

experience in this field.

Is there a future?

There is. I mean, I want to say, it's very naive if we still believe in America for the Palestinian issue. During the Gaza war, Trump, the US government, Biden and Trump, vetoed five times the draft resolution of the Security Council, which requires immediate ceasefire.

Immediate means that we don't have to wait two years, like Trump did. Then, open access to humanitarian aid as much as possible. There are many countries that have done that. So, if President Trump enters the peace talks that were made by Trump, it's just weird, it's not logical. It means that when a Muslim country is fighting Palestine in the PBB,

there is an institution called the Security Council that can impose sanctions, there are five members of the the right to do so. We are also weak in that position. Especially in the peacekeeping council, only the Americans have the right to do so.

So, it means,

it's getting more and more unclear.

it's getting more and more unclear. So, it's far from the hope that President Prabowo said that this could achieve a two-state solution, create peace in Gaza. Yes, it's very far. Because for a colonised nation, the concept of peace is a confusing concept.

For example, when Indonesia, suddenly foreign communities say, we are at peace with the Netherlands, whereas a colonised nation must be at peace with colonisers. That's not logical. That's it. That's enough, Pak. Thank you, Pak Hissal. For you, Netizen, please give us your comments.

For example, how realistic is Indonesia's offer to become the mediator between the conflict between the United States of Israel and Iran? We are waiting for your comments. Thank you. That's all for this week's Terus Terang podcast. It's more clear now because of Mr. Faisal El Segaf, who has been in this field for at least ten years, and has been involved in way in the Middle East, especially in Palestine, Israel, Iran, and so on,

which has given us insights. See you again, and don't miss the next actual issue discussion. Indonesia has played a role in various world peace processes. Can we also play an important role this time, as we tried to do in the past? I want to hear your views.

Especially, do, never get tired

to keep loving Indonesia. to keep loving Indonesia.

The end.