Iran war 'the end' for Trump: Tucker Carlson on Musk, MAGA & the UK

I'm in the United States where I've been interviewing Tucker Carlson.He's one of the most influential and controversial political voices in America with tens of millions of followers across social media.His YouTube show is a platform for his opinions on what's happening in the United States and beyond.And when he speaks, Republicans listen.He's also had President Trump's ear for over a decade and was once a major supporter.In 2024, it was Tucker Carlson who introduced Trump to a rapturous audience at the Republican National Convention.

But more recently, the relationship has turned sour, mostly over Trump's war on Iran and what he sees as America's unconditional support for Israel.He's been praised by many for his anti -war views on America's misadventures in the Middle East, but also criticized by supporters of Israel, some of whom say his commentary veers into anti -Semitism, something Carlson flatly rejects.I sat down with him for over an hour shortly after the United States and Iran signed the Memorandum of Understanding.

Well, I'm amazed by the new treaty at Versailles that was signed yesterday.I'm just amazed by it.In fact, when I first saw it, I thought it was fake.There's so much lying going on, as there is in any war, but particularly this one, that I just didn't believe it could be true for a bunch of different reasons.Obviously, it's an admission of failure, of defeat of the United States by Iran, which is the world's 34th largest economy.So it's just a remarkable admission.

So it signifies a movement of power from one sphere to another.But it also signifies a profound and I think permanent change in the relationship between the United States and Israel, which is something that I was never that interested in for the last couple of years, and particularly since this war began in February, has been the focus of my attention, because it's been the defining fact of America.And I think with this, that changes.ways that are, you know, very hard to predict, but the outlines are pretty obvious.Like there's no going back to where we were after this for a bunch of different reasons.And after the president made a series of statements, which were just shocking to me, hilarious because they're true, but amazing.

I mean, the president of the United States stood up, I think in Europe at the G7 two days ago and said, you know what, I like BB, nice guy, good partner.You know, the caveats.But what he's doing in Lebanon is just brutal.It's just brutal.

Blowing up apartment buildings because of drones.I mean, come on.

I think we're going to hand control of the fight against Hezbollah to Jelani in Syria.Jelani?Now, without getting boring, as I know you know, Jelani was effectively installed a year and a half ago by the United States, Turkey, and Israel.They've never admitted that, though Trump just kind of did admit it.Because Assad was unacceptable to Israel.Now he's living in Moscow in exile.

Jelani is a former al -Qaeda leader.I've run into him a couple times in the Middle East.He's like 6 '8".And even the Gulf states, who are not, you know, huge on human rights, even they're like, oh, I don't know.This guy's pretty brutal.Are we his ally now?

I'm not here to endorse Jelani.I think it's shocking that we allowed an al -Qaeda leader to run Syria.We have troops in Syria, so we have a stake in this.So I don't know if this head chopper is less brutal than Netanyahu.I don't know.But I know Netanyahu, and not even Netanyahu, but his coalition, I think Netanyahu is actually one of the more moderate figures in his coalition.

I don't think it's all Netanyahu at all.But I think someone like Ben -Gavir or Smotrich or a number of different cabinet ministers are, of course, bloodthirsty, but don't consider non -Israeli leaders.fully human.I mean, it's obvious by what they say.They've said that, and their law is now reflected within the state.I grieve over that as someone who's liked Israel for a long time and been there a lot and has a number of Israeli friends, who are totally reasonable, decent, good people.

I grieve over what's happened to that country, but it's a stain.on the conscience of the world.And so when Trump says that, he's absolutely right.You're bombing Beirut?You just stole southern Lebanon, south of the Latani River?You use the pretext of a war that you got us into to launch a new war with our money and our weapons designed to expand your territory?

It gets so crazy.And no one in the rest of the world sees this, and even in the UK.where people have gone to jail for criticizing Israel, it's still much more normal for people to say this.Normal people, not anti -Semites or Nazis or crazies, but just like normal people.Like, what is this?In the U .

S., that is not normal.We don't, I have not lived in a world where people felt free to say that or even really thought about it very much.We're so far away.It's part of the problem.And the criticism of Israel traditionally came from like crazies either anti -semites or Far -left, you know anti -colonial type people just not people I in my world I never met anyone like that actually never had dinner with anyone like that So mainstream criticism of Israeli policies not of Jews or of Israel's right to exist or whatever But just stuff like what they're doing and what we're paying for that didn't exist in the United States, and now all of a sudden it does.

And so I think the status quo is not sustainable.That's a massive change in American politics.And there are a lot of other changes, but they're all happening in real time.So like, I'm not smart enough to know exactly where they're going to wind up, but I know that this is a pivot in our history.

And I want to talk to you about Gaza, Lebanon, you know, go into more detail on these issues.But you said a couple of things there that I want to sort of talk about a little bit more.You said that the idea that Donald Trump four months ago went into a war partnering with Benjamin Netanyahu.And he's now criticizing him in the way that he is.Why do you think and how do you think this evolution happened over the course of the last?

Well, I don't I mean, it's something that I've really meditated on for the past 110 days since it started, because I was so close to the process.I mean, I was talking to Trump all the time.I was in Washington three times in the last month talking to Trump about this trying to argue against a regime change effort in Iran, because I thought it'd be terrible for the United States.I thought it'd be the end of American empire.I thought the United States would wind up retreating from the Middle East.And those may be good things, by the way.

I don't, you know, who knows?But I thought that it would be terrible for the U .S.dollar, and I thought Americans would die.And I told him all of those things.And he knew that those were risks, realistic risks, and he did it anyway.

So I don't know why.There were no, maybe Rubio secretly, but there were certainly no advisors loudly encouraging this around him, I don't think.Dan Cain, chairman of the Joint Chiefs, I don't think so.So like, why did he do this?And I have a number of theories.I don't know if they're true.

So I won't bore you with them.But he was certainly following the lead of Israel, as he said.I think Trump was sincerely, he allowed himself to convince himself that killing the ayatollah, the head of Shia Islam, would somehow collapse the country.RIC, or various intel agencies, told him that wasn't true.The Israelis told him it was true, when a couple of days in, it turned out to be totally false.I think he was enraged.

He knew he was trapped.He knew that the American economy was at stake, the global economy was at stake.I think he immediately blamed Netanyahu for it.Our Secretary of State went out and publicly said, we followed Israel into this war.Kind of a shocking thing to say.I think the Secretary of State said that at the urging of the president, who immediately, as he does, blames someone else for his mistake.

I do think Israel shares a lot of the blame for this.Of course they do.But fundamentally, it was Trump's decision.He's the president.And whether he works for others, and he clearly does, it's still his decision, and it's still his fault.And so his instinct always is to shift the blame, and he shifted it to Israel.

And I think that's been brewing within him.And ultimately, I mean, he said this himself yesterday.He said, we're running out of oil.Our strategic petroleum reserve is at its lowest level since 1983.So I mean, you can't draw it down too much because the caverns collapse.So we're actually in a really perilous place.

And the president himself said yesterday, we've got four weeks left, at which point you may not be able to buy gasoline.So I don't know.I think that's an overstatement, but it's He's seen the models that show that we're going to endure severe and lasting economic damage, and so will the rest of the world, so will Asia, particularly Southeast Asia.It's going to cause a lot of problems if it continues.That's been obvious since day one.But I think it's an unavoidable fact now for him, and he had to get it, and we're also running out of weapons.

Do you think then ultimately the last four months has made the United States weaker?Much weaker, of course, much weaker.

Now, my view, and this is a view that I have come to in the last couple of years, just from traveling a lot.And it's an evolving view, so who knows how I'll feel when the facts come in a year from now.But I think we had an unsustainable empire that was not serving the interests of the republic, the country itself.And it cost too much.I think it degraded our politics.I think it sucked up the attention of our leaders, much more interested in defeating Islamic jihad than in ending homelessness.

That's a misalignment ofgoals and values.That can't continue.The population deeply resents it.And a lot of people have died.And our treasury has been drained by it.

So what we were doing wasn't working.I hope the next iteration will be better for the United States.I'm American, fundamentally.But I know that that wasn't working.And at some point, it was going to end.And if this is the point at which it ends, we can say, with some sadness, with some mixed feelings, the blue passport isn't as strong as it used to be.

And that is sad.as an American.On the other hand, we got out pretty easy compared to how it might have gone if we'd had a confrontation over Taiwan or something and lost, you know, a pitched battle against...

Or a war where you're dragged in for 20 years.

Literally.Not inconceivable.You could easily see that happening.And now I think it's less likely.I mean, who knows?We've got 60 days, by the way, to see this MOU become a treaty.

An awful lot could happen.Israel has...Israel's very threatened by this, and I don't think it's just hysteria.to show some empathy for Israel.I think this is truly a disaster for Israel.I don't care that much, I think.

But there are nice people and decent people in Israel.And so I feel sad in the face of all tragedy, but I do think they're staring down the barrel of a real threat for the first time in a long time.They have a long history of hyping threats and trying to, you know, we're always the victim and all this stuff.But I think in this case, it's kind of real.I mean, they went in.with a number of different goals.

One was to reduce America's influence in the Middle East.They've achieved that.One was to reduce the power of the Gulf states.They've achieved that.But the main goal was to take Iran off the table, to reduce it to civil war, and so they don't have to deal with it, and they can do what they want, and they're the regional hegemon.Got it.

I don't think that's a crazy goal, by the way.I'm not mad at Israel for wanting that.All states want that, right?And they saw it within thereach.And the net effect, because life is irony, is the opposite.

Iran is much stronger now than it was 100 days ago.The United States is treating the United States, the world's great superpower, is treating Iran as a real place.Not as an equal, maybe, but sort of.

Why is that?

Because we have no choice.We have absolutely no choice.And we didn't, because Iran's power is not military.So this is like, there's a whole, I do hope people will meditate on how did we get here, because it's the fruit of a bad system that produces incapable leaders, clearly, because they're chosen on the basis of like absurd criteria, like obedience rather than creativity.But it's also just the fruit of like being in charge for 80 years, it makes you weak and decadent and dumb.And you start to convince yourselves of things that are not true.

And one of the things we've convinced ourselves of is that power flows only from the barrel of a gun.And that military power is the only power.And so we fund our military to the tune of one and a half trillion dollars a year and declare ourselves in charge.And we just lose to a country we've described for generations as like a backward theocracy.How'd that happen?And the answer is because military power is not the only form of power.

geographic power is actually more important.

I mean, and you say you spoke to the president about this.Others would have told him about these risk factors.

No, they're all cowards.They're cowards.I'm sorry, now you just made me emotional.Sorry, it makes me mad.I'm a podcaster who happens to know Trump.I'm not a genius.

I don't speak Persian.Like, I'm not an area expert.I've spent a lot of time on the Persian Gulf, like a lot, for decades.So I've certainly visited a lot.I know a million people there, but I don't speak the languages.So I'm not by definition an expert.

And as I've just noted, I'm a subgenius.

But you spent a lot of time telling him this stuff.

But my point is, why did it fall to me?You know what I mean?There are people paid to give this advice, but I watched.And there are some good people there for sure, some smart, well -meaning people, but there weren't a ton of people who were willing to march in there and say, this is nuts, man.This is nuts, and you're being sold a story that's not true.And I not hate against Israel.

I understand they've got a different perspective from ours.They have different goals from ours because they're a different country.But if you follow this path, you will be entrapped.This is a trap.I did tell him that.He didn't like it at all.

But it was true.And it wasn't just true.It was obviously true.It was obviously true.I didn't want...By the way, I don't...

I spent my whole life in Washington.I have no desire to go back.I didn't want it.I wanted it at my expense.Nobody paid me.

Did the penny drop for you where you suddenly thought, he's going to do this?

You know, I honestly...I mean, Trump's not the only one who's good at fooling himself.I am too.I kept thinking, and I thought this in the Iraq war, I knew Bush.And I remember thinking, you know, in late 2002, they're not really going to invade Iraq.And everyone I knew, all the dumber, more artistic people who just sort of see the world like your dog sees it, just like assess the facts and come to obvious conclusions.

That is the way, by the way.That's the only way.I overthink things.So I'm like, well, this is all like some elaborate feint and they're not really going to do it.A friend of mine who's kind of autistic goes, of course they're going to do it.They're moving the troops to the region.

Why do we have all these troops in Kuwait?They're going to do it.And I was like, there's no way.And in March of 2003, I was in Florida with my kids on spring break, my little kids, and they rolled over the border into Basra.And I'm like, what?And next thing I know, I'm there too.

Like, everyone's there.You know, you have to be there.So the world changed.But for me, it was a shock.And in this specific case, even though I talked to Trump, dozens and dozens ofdozens of times, and dozens of times, like endlessly about Iraq for the last ten years, Iran rather, for ten years, and my position never changed, this is not a good idea.

I was still shocked when I got a text on Signal at like ten o 'clock the night before saying we're going in and I was like there's no way.And the first thing I did, this is how totally deluded I am, is I checked the time in Tehran and it was like sunup.or the sun had just come up.And I said to myself, as someone who's never served in the military and is not an expert on military tactics, but I convinced myself, there's no way we're going to launch a war in daylight.There's just no way we're not going to do that.I don't know why I thought that.

I don't watch movies.I don't know.I just had this idea.At dawn, it's too late.But of course, I had no idea what I was talking about.It was not too late.

We did it.And I woke up, and my wife woke me up the next morning early and said, we've gone into Iran.

And I couldn't believe it.

I was shocked.Because it was just, it wasn't a close call.There was no, not one person who I heard made a case that this would be good for the United States.There was a lot of hysteria about Iran having ICBMs and nuclear weapons.It was all a lie.Everyone knew it was a lie.

But like I never heard anybody say, okay, let's affect regime change in Iran.And here's how America is like a way better place to live in 10 years.No one even tried to make the case.So I was like, this can't really happen.

Well, the person who did make the case was Benjamin Netanyahu.And he, you know, advocated for this.But he hasn't advocated just to Donald Trump for 25 years, for 30 years.He's been advocating to president after president.I mean, why Trump?

You're absolutely right.The core premise of your question is undeniable.Many presidents have faced this pressure.Only Trump caved.That's just a fact.So I, as I said, I don't know why.

There are, I mean, he wasn't hypnotized.

He just swallowed it.

He may have been hypnotized.That's real.People are absolutely hypnotized.I know a lot of people have been hypnotized.I have been hypnotized.I mean, of course, people are hypnotized all the time.

But on an issue like this?

What?But on an issue like this?

Of course, we're all hypnotized.from time to time.Words have power.Words change reality.But this is a president who - We hypnotize ourselves all the time.

But you supported him.So many like you supported him.

I didn't just support him.I campaigned for him.

I mean, I was, by the way, and we'll talk about this, I was at the RNC when you spoke.

No way.I was.

And you spoke.And you were convincing and compelling in your arguments.

I had no idea I meant it.

But to come out, to campaign for him, to support him in the way that you did, And then for him to campaign on a no war, no forever wars, and for it to end up like this.

No one was as shocked as I was.Yeah.So my calculate, first of all, I would just say is I try to force myself to say always, I was wrong.I've been wrong about a lot of other things, including the Iraq war.So I am capable of being not just wrong, but very embarrassingly wrong.So that's just a fact.

Why was I wrong?It's not like I didn't know Trump had flaws.I know Trump intimately.I know Trump really, really well.And I've always liked him, but I know what he's like.And so I was eyes wide open in some ways.

But my calculation was, and it seemed obvious, that if, I mean, from my perspective, what the country needs is a choice.And the Republican Party and the Democratic Party are identical in their core assumptions about the economy and foreign policy, which is what matters.And I thought Trump was an option.

Are you talking to Trump at the moment?

No.

You haven't spoken to him since?

I have not.February 28th.I spoke to him the 27th.I haven't talked to him since.I don't hate him.I feel sorry for him.

What he did is a catastrophe.He knew it would be.He did it anyway.So the question is why?I think it's really important to know, just as I think it's important to know who killed John Kennedy.Happened before I was born.

I'm not a Democrat.Like, I have no personal reason for needing to know that other than I've got a stake in the United States.I've got a bunch of kids.I hope the country continues.I sort of like our system.I would like to preserve it.

And if there's evidence that elections aren't the final say in who runs the country, if there are people who have control over the people who claim they have control, then I have a right to know.what that is and who they are.

And I want to quote you because you say, the war in Iran has taught us that the people you elect aren't even in charge.Someone else is.In this case, Benjamin Netanyahu.Yes.What are the long term effects of a population understanding that voting doesn't make a difference?Exactly.

I mean, I guess...Scary.

But I ask because Donald Trump has stopped this war now.And Benjamin Netanyahu, you have said in this interview, this is a dangerous moment for Israel.

Big time.

Benjamin Netanyahu is concerned.He has said, this is not my deal.This is not my ceasefire.

I reserve the right to defy it if I need to.

But that is Donald Trump in charge, right?

I don't know if it's Trump in charge.I mean, he's certainly taking a different course than he did 110 days ago, for sure.Radically different.And he's blaming his failures on Netanyahu, which is predictable and well -deserved.Like, I'm not mad about it.And I think Netanyahu is obviously a criminal.

And I don't feel sympathy for him.after all the innocence he's murdered.But I do feel sympathy for Israel just because there are a lot of nice people in Israel and they don't deserve this.

Nobody deserves this.

And as I said, I think this is, I want to be honest enough to admit, I think this is a very, an actually threatening, not a fake theatrical threatening, but actually threatening moment for Israel.So I feel bad about that.But all I knew is what I saw.Trump was not enthusiastic about doing this.He knew the risks.He thought the risks were real.

He told me that.And he did it anyway.And he did it against the advice of his own intelligence agencies and against the the wishes and maybe in some mild cases, the advice of his own advisors.So why did he do that?At whose behest did he do that?He wasn't enthusiastic about it.

He'd said for 10 years he wasn't going to do it.He thought it was a bad idea.He campaigned against regime change wars in the Middle East, a lot, not just parenthetically, but it was a central position.And so far as I could tell, having talked to him about it many, many, many times, I think it was heartfelt.So I don't know what to say.I mean, and, you know, people try and push you off the question by alleging hatred or bias or whatever.

I just don't care.I don't feel that.I'm not a hater.I actually reject that whole way of thinking.I'm not an ethno -nationalist, unlike the Israelis and their unregistered foreign agents in the United States who are ethno -nationalist.I'm not.

I believe in God and I think that God created every single person and endowed every person with the same rights.

We call them human rights because they attach to you as a human, not as a Muslim or Christian or Jew or Arab or it doesn't you're a human being therefore you have these rights That's how I feel so I believe in universal standards of behavior so four months in supreme leader assassinated 120 children killed in a school disgusting over a million people displaced in Lebanon thousands killed there at the end of the day even if you say that you know we're doing this because Benjamin Netanyahu advocatedfor it.Donald Trump, you believe, is responsible for all of that.Of course.

Of course.He's the US president.He's the US president.I mean, and it's because of his weakness and fear, he wound up going along with a plan that diminished his country, destroyed his legacy, killed a bunch of people.I mean, the whole thing's a tragedy without question.But I still think it's worth understanding the mechanics of how it happened.

And I don't know why more people aren't curious about that.No, I feel so sad about it.There's no win for anybody, and Israel's loss is not my win at all.I don't ever gloat when any...I didn't gloat when Osama bin Laden got shot in front of his wife.I hate...

Osama bin Laden is an evil man, not rooting for Osama bin Laden, but I am never going to gloat over the death of another person because I am a person.

And I guess another US president dragged into a war in the Middle East that they say they either didn't want to start or move away from.For me, it's quite personal what happened in Afghanistan with Joe Biden and the way that they, the shambolic way that they withdrew.And that for me was a defining moment for Joe Biden's presidency.It felt like the beginning of the end of his presidency.Do you think this war is the beginning of the end of Donald Trump.Of course it's the end.

Of course.Of course it's the end.And I said this to him in February.I said, what he already knew.I mean, Trump is smart.And I didn't tell Trump anything that he didn't know and understand.

Trump is not a detail man.He mangles the details.He lies about the details, obviously.But he understands big picture politics as well, or certainly better than I do.And his instinct for people is remarkable.So he's a very talented person.

You don't get to be president by accident.And he knew exactly what he was getting into.But I said to him, look, I knew Bush pretty well personally.And Bush had all kinds of plans when he got elected in 2000.I was there when he got elected.And he planned to reform Social Security and bring charitable choice.

He had all these programs, theoretical programs, no one remembers the names of now.What's the Bush presidency about?It's about the Iraq War and the financial collapse of 2008.Those are its defining facts.And that will be you.It doesn't matter what else you close, the border, all this stuff.

No, no, you're the Iran war guy if you do this.

But he knew that.

Boy, did he know that.But he did it anyway.So I just think, I'm a huge believer, that's why I became a journalist, in finding out what actually happened, being honest about it, and trying to learn obvious lessons from it.

Are you worried that the United States, Donald Trump, will get dragged back into this war?Because there are a lot of people having a meltdown right now.I mean, the Ben Shapiros and the Mark Levines.Who elevated these people?

I mean, I think I'm just too old.I'm getting to that stage, you know, every middle -aged man gets to a point where it's like, hey, get off my lawn, you kids kind of thing.And I think I may be getting there because, like, the idea that Mark Levin or Ben Shapiro or Ted Cruz or Lindsey Graham or any of these buffoons would have any influence over anything at all, including like what their wives are making for dinner, it's just crazy to me because they're so discredited.And I've just been there for the whole thing.I watched the whole thing.For 30 years, I've watched this.

And these are the people who got it wrong on every single occasion with massive consequences too, not just minor mistakes, but like mistakes that led to the deaths of millions of people and the grave diminishment of American power and standard of living and life expectancy.These are the wrongest people in our country.So like, really?And by the way, they have no natural constituency.There's no way in which they speak for any sizable percentage of the American population.Look at their ratings.

They're a country.No one wants this.I had a friend in advertising once said to me, the thing about a dog food campaign is it doesn't matter.If the dogs don't like the dog food, they're not going to eat it.It doesn't matter how much you spend on trying to convince their owners you should buy this dog food.They're not eating it.

And they failed the dog food test.Nobody wants this crap.Who cares more about Hezbollah than about Homelessness or gas prices or the drug epidemic which no one's doing really anything about or the fact that Mexican drug cartels control the American Southwest That's not even mentioned like we didn't care or they don't care people live in New Mexico care.So anyway, the whole worldview is so deranged and provably wrong and has been proven wrong that it was like That's one of the reasons I didn't think this war would actually start.

But do you think that the lines are being drawn right now, because we're seeing a lot of the vice president now coming out, defending this deal.He said, fundamentally, it was worth it.That's what he said yesterday or the day before to Megyn Kelly.

What was worth it?The deal?The war, the deal, it was worth it.Well, what are you going to say?It wasn't worth it.All these Americans died.

It cost us tens, maybe hundreds of billions of dollars, and will cost more going forward.So like, it's a tough pill to say it wasn't worth it.I mean, this was all pointless.Like, no one wants to hear that.No one wants to say that.No one wants to believe that.

So I certainly give him a pass on that.But no, J .D., I think the vice president has been very clear about his views.I don't think there's any world in which President J .D.

Vance would have done this.There's literally no chance of that, I think.But he's the vice president.So one of his jobs is to support the president.And he's done, I think, a very good job of that.It's tough.

Who'd want that assignment?But from what I know of JD Vance,Vance, and I know J .D.Vance, he's a really decent man, I will just say that.And I know that to be true.

His view is, rather than, you know, throwing up your hands and saying, I can't deal with this, I'm out, you violated my principles.His view is, if you're in a position of authority, you do your best to make the best of a bad situation.And he has done that.I know that he has done that since the very first day.And yep, he didn't choose this, but he's there.He's the vice president, and he's going to try to make it better.

And this deal, while obviously an awful deal, an embarrassing, humiliating deal for the United States, is still better than what would have happened if we kept going.I think that's his view.That's certainly my view.I have no right to speak for him, but it's my sense is that's how he feels.And he's right.They've got 60 days to poison it.

Will they?We're going to try.And by they, I mean Israel.And that's, by the way, our fault.It's not their fault.I don't blame Israel for that.

They're shafted.And you could say, well, they deserve it.It's a criminal state that's committing genocide.Like, I don't weep for them.I get it.On the other hand, it's important to be honest.

So I would say it's the fault of the US Congress and successive administrations.But now, you know, the United States is going to, in a meaningful way, begin to abandon Israel and stop backstopping it.At a pretty tough point, actually.I mean, this is genuine sympathy for Israel.It's like, we went along with their war against Iran, and then we decided the cost is too hard, and we're pulling out.Now, they're not the first ally to have that experience with the United States government.

You could probably write a book on this as someone whose family is from Afghanistan.Many Vietnamese refugees in our country could do the same.It's like, we've done this before.Now we're doing it to Israel.And I think that they've figured that out because they're not stupid.And they're very keenly aware of their own interests.

So they've got 60 days to get us back on board.I don't think they can do it.it, but I think they could do a lot of messy stuff.in the next two months.

That was Tucker Carlson on the Iran war, a conflict he believes will be the defining issue of Donald Trump's second term.Next, I wanted to ask him about the wider conflict in the Middle East and his outspoken position on the war in Gaza.Carlson has made it clear he believes genocide is being committed in Gaza.That's a view held by a United Nations commission and several European nations.Israel and the United States, however, reject the claim.The issue has divided opinion here in the United States, but it is significant for such a prominent conservative voice to take such a strong stance.

I was interested to know if he believes the U .S.bears responsibility for what's happening in Gaza.And that's where I began the next part of our conversation.You've raised the war in Gaza a number of times throughout this interview, and you're very clear in your position on Gaza that it's unequivocally genocide.You've also talked about the fact that The United States has provided a backstop for Israel for a lot of these conflicts and wars.

So what is the United States' responsibility when it came to the war in Gaza?Profound.It's profound.

The last administration, this administration, both of them allowed this, paid for it, ran cover for it.Israel's been criticized throughout Europe, throughout the world, really, for its behavior, fairly.And the United States has attacked any country in any international body, including the United Nations, who stands up and says, well, what is this?This is a genocide.And we attack them.No, no, we've made this possible.

The United States made this possible.And that's one of the reasons that the idea that like criticizing Israel's behavior is anti -Semitism is like insane.I'm not playing along with it.That actually, that position creates anti -Semitism, which I oppose.But it's also like,the truth is, and I just said it, I'll say it again, this is largely the fault, big picture, of the U .S.

S.government.The U .S.government has paid for this and allowed it, encouraged it, for generations.And we should not be surprised that the end result is genocide.

We shouldn't be surprised.Like, this has been coming for a long time.Israel has completely changed.I feel sorry for Israel, but the Israel that I first visited decades ago bears no resemblance to modern Israel.

Is the United States complicit?

Of course we paid for it.We made excuses for it.We made it possible.And there are weapons, obviously.Of course we're complicit.That's one of the reasons I'm upset by it.

That's my country.These are my tax dollars.This is my reputation.This is the moral authority of the nation that my ancestors built.So yes, I feel very implicated in this and enraged by it.And not primarily enraged at the Israelis, who I think are delusional for a bunch of different reasons.

I don't think that's is an Israeli -specific phenomenon.We felt a little bit of that after 9 -11, when people bought the lies about 9 -11.There were many lies about 9 -11, but the net result was to convince Americans that they were under siege from global Islam, that there were a billion people trying to kill them.I felt this way myself.And many times I said on television, the problem is Islam, the problem is Muslims.Like, they all want to kill us.

They're all crazy.They're all in this lunatic suicide cult created by Muhammad in the 7th century.And I believed that.I was hysterical.I believed that.No, that's not true.

Nothing about that is true.But I believed it.So it's a little harder for me to judge Israelis when they're like, every Arab, Christian or Muslim, it doesn't matter.Arabs are by definition committed to the extermination of Jews, and we must kill them before they kill us.Like, they believe that.I think people are capable.

I know because I've been there.felt it myself, are capable of believing things like that, but they're deranged.And when you do believe something like that, what you need is a clear -thinking adult to correct you, just as your children need it when they go crazy, which they do.And your job as the parent is to be like, nope, that's actually not real.Settle down.There are universal standards that apply to everybody.

Some people are bad, some people are good.That's true of all people, including you.So settle down.I've had this talk with my own children.I'm sure you have too.And we've shared that talk with Israel, but we haven't.

Because of blackmail and threats and weakness, there are a lot of reasons why Israel has been able to control the United States for decades.But it almost doesn't matter what they are.It's ending.And I hope that we can restore, I mean, I hope that the people responsible for the genocide in the U .S.and Israel are punished.

They will be.I'm confident of that.After that, I think, I hope that we can have a normal relationship with Israel, you know, an allied relationship with Israel, a happy, normal, healthy relationship with Israel, not a master -slave relationship with Israel.That doesn't work.

I mean, this is all very bleak.

It's not bleak.It's good.It's good.No, it's good.Look, crimes will be punished in this life or the next.But the one thing we know is that justice exists.

It's a physical, it's a natural reality that we have no control over.When you do something, all is revealed in the end.Period.And so the people responsible for killing innocents will be punished for that, as they should be.

You've spoken about justice and punishment and those who have either been complicit or funded the situation, the war in Gaza.Does that include, you know, seeing Joe Biden punished, Donald Trump punished?Of course.Of course.

And, you know, punishment, you know...And in what way?Well, there'd be no formal punishment for the leaders of anything in the United States because our leaders are exempt from punishment formally.I mean, you mentioned the Afghan withdrawal.The only person punished for that debacle was Stu Scheller, who was a Marine colonel, who complained about it.And they put him in jail for complaining about it.

But the people who planned it and executed it and resulted in the deaths of a dozen Americans and God knows how many Afghans, they were rewarded for it.So like, our system is broken in the most basic sense.People who tell the truth are punished.People who lie and kill are rewarded.That's a structural problem that I pray will change.Formal punishment is not the only punishment.

I mean, first of all, there is, this is not the end.Human life is not the end, of course.Our souls are eternal.It's just a fact, okay?So, and we do a lot to deny that.Let's not do it.

Well, it is true.And so there is a reckoning for every person.And we all sort of know that intuitively, but there is also, there are social sanctions.Innocent people should not be killed.It's that simple.You can make the case that, you know, People who do something wrong should be killed, okay.

But justice requires you to spare the innocent.You can never kill innocent people.That is never justified for any reason, ever.Let's just start there.And that used to be a commonly understood principle.That's the undergirding principle of our entire justice system, which we inherited, thank God, from Great Britain.

That it is, the worst thing you can do is punish the innocent.Now, punishing the innocent is just a kind of common practice.tool in our tool bag of foreign policy and diplomacy.Like we openly, this president openly threatened to blow up civilian infrastructure and kill millions of people who had nothing to do with the war.Well, that's obviously a war crime, but it's more profoundly, it's a moral crime.And it will always be.

At every time, in every country, that will never change.So, yeah, of course.people, the spell will break, and people will look around and be like, I can't believe that happened.

I wonder, Tucker, where this leaves the future of the MAGA movement.

The future of the MAGA?Well, that's over.There's no future of the MAGA movement, obviously.We're done.

This war caused the end of it.

Yeah, it doesn't.I mean, what is the MAGA movement?Trump has defined it as whatever he wants.Well, it's not a movement.That's a tick.That's a preference.

It's like, what do I feel like having for breakfast this morning?Well, today it's, you know, the pancake movement.It'll be Eggs Benedict movement tomorrow.Like, it's not a movement.You know, it's just like a...It's a desire.

But you believed in it.

Well, I never understood what it was.No, I never believed in MAGA.I believe in making America great again.I certainly believe in its literal definition.But its operational definition was never clear.What I believe in is putting your country first.

If you're leading your country, of course, its concerns are at the top of your list.your list of concerns in the same way that your children's concerns are more important, your children's needs are more important to you as a parent than your neighbor's kids' needs and concerns.You're the parent.That's nature.Again, that's just natural.There's nothing crazy or fascistic about that.

In fact, any other form of government is crazy and fascistic.Every other form of government is tyranny.That's the only legitimate form of government where the leaders put, not to the exclusion of everyone else's concerns, like you don't have to hate your neighbor's kids to love your own.You can love all kids.But if it comes down to it, you put your kids first because you're their parent.And that same worldview has to be the way the U .

S.government operates in order to be legitimate.And that's what America First means.And so I will never stop believing that.I think every other American believes that, too.The phrase America First scares people because it's like Nazi or something, but in real life, there's no other way to run a government.

And I still believe that.And this war was a big deal.obvious betrayal of that.We didn't go to war to protect our own interests.We went to war to serve Israel's interests.They've said that out loud.

So this is not a conspiracy theory.That's contemptible.That's wrong.

You've spoken about sovereignty, democracy.I'm just going to quote you.You say, we're clearly on the road to radical, destructive change in the United States.And obviously, you've talked about the erosion of democracy.You're not just standing on the outside observing.

What is your role sort of going forward within this?

So there's no MAGA movement that's dead, according to you.Donald Trump has about two and a half years left to run.I'm just curious.I mean, people often ask you if you're going to run and what your role is going to be in the future of America.

I mean, I think I'm very much standing on the outside.I mean, I don't have a role.real job.I'm just like a podcaster.I'm just observing things that I think are very obvious.

You've got millions of followers.You have Donald Trump's ear.

For right now, you know, I'm not big on self -awareness.It's hard for me to see myself clearly.

So let me tell you the anecdote at the RNC.So I was there in Milwaukee.You came out.It was a few days after the assassination attempt on Donald Trump.You were sort of the warm -up act ahead of the president.And it was perhaps the most sort of cheered speech of all.

And there were a number of speakers over several days.And, you know, the Americans who were there were listening to what you had to say, and they found it compelling.

Well, I really meant it.You know, they pushed me to write out a speech and put it in the teleprompter, and I just don't give speeches that way.I say a prayer and just start talking, which I think is a much better way because it's easier, by the way.It's hard to read a speech.I'm not very good at it.But it also guarantees that you say what you really think because it just emerges.

And I really believed it.I mean, I'm not paid to be there.I went there at my own expense.I really believed it.I thought Trump was the option.And I think at the time he was.

And then something, again, I just keep getting back to the same thing.I'm not going to theorize about what actually happened, but something happened.And we have an obligation to understand if we're going to preserve what I think is fundamentally a pretty good system, where the people have a stake in their government.Because what's the option?What's my role in this?I'm kind of doing it right now.

I mean, I can tell you this.I would never vote for anyone connected to the modern iteration of the Republican Party.And I hate to say that.I voted Republican, at least I've voted, which is not that much.But I've always been on the Republican side, always, my whole life.My parents were, worked for the government, you know.

And Republican voters, Trump voters, are my favorite people.I think they're the best people in America.They're the nicest.They believe in the system.You know, they're orderly.They're law -abiding.

They're kind.Not all of them, but in general, they're the best people in the country.But the leadership of the Republican Party is completely out of control.Completely out of control.And I just would never support anything like that.And of course, the Democratic Party has just no values in common, so I would not support that either.

I do think there has to be an option.

Would you run?

That's literally the last thing I think I would want to do, that I'm suited for.I just don't think I'm a natural politician.Donald Trump wasn't?Yeah, you know, Trump had a couple of qualities I don't know that I have.I mean, there's a lot of qualities I don't think I have, but one in particular, man, that guy's tough.He's really tough.

in a true sense.I mean, he's weak on the other hand, obviously.He got pushed into a ridiculous war.But on another level, he's really a tough man.Whatever you think about what happened at Butler, he really was shot in the ear.The man behind him was killed by the bullet.

So that actually happened.You get shot and you stand up and do, that can't be rehearsed.I know there's a lot of theories about how it's all a setup.Come on now.I talked to him that night.I called him that night that he was shot.

He was fine.I mean, he's tough.And you have to be tough.They go after your family.They've already gone after my family in a very big way, and I find it so upsetting I can barely focus.I love my family.

I don't want...They didn't sign up for this, you know?So the idea that you could take that level that your children could be targeted, and his have been targeted with, like, potential prison sentences on fake charges, and then keep going?I mean, I don't know, man.

But it's not a hard no.

Well, it's a hard no as of now.Yeah, I mean, I don't have... any desire.I don't know that I would be willing to trade the safety and happiness of my family for that.

What about, would you think about a campaign with and running alongside of JD Vance?

I would think about, well, I've said it a million times, it hasn't helped him much, but I really love JD and know him well.And I think he's a genuinely decent person whose values are ordered correctly.I think JD cares about his wife.God, his wife, his children, his nation.I mean, I know that.So, you know, I love that there's a decent person in politics.

There aren't many at all.There's not one hand worth that I know personally.So, yeah, I mean, I'm always rooting for JD.D.I think it's, you know, who knows?Like, we're talking 24 hours after Trump has, like, done a 180 on this stuff, and I agree with what he's done, though I'm sad about it.

So, but who knows what Trump has in store for the next two and a half years, assuming he serves it out?I don't know.Who knows?I mean, God only knows, right?

I mean, but could we ever see a President Tucker?

Could not.I mean, I don't know.I'm not a big hider of, like, my desires.I can't stop talking.I can't stop, like, saying what I think and revealing.If I wanted to be president, I think it'd be really obvious.

Like, I don't at all.But I am worried.I want someone to provide an option.So what is clearly going to happen is underneath all of the foreign policy questions are the ones that are even more important and resonant, which are economic questions.You know, the average home price in over 100 cities for a starter home is over a million dollars right now.That's like, you can't have kids in that environment.

People don't feel like the system is fair.It's not fair.That system can't continue.And so what's going to happen is you're going to have a massive reaction to that system.And some demagogue is going to show up and basically give us like the most destructive form of socialism.You're going to see economic populism that's not rebalancing.

It's just making leaders and politicians more powerful.

I don't want that.

So I don't know.How do you pull back from this totally lopsided economy where the worst people in America become billionaires and everyone else withers?How do you pull back to just like a reasonable vision of meritocracy where like people who work hard and do the right thing get rewarded?I don't know.That is the actual, it's easy not to like have a regime change over the run.Just don't do it, Dumbo.

But how do you fix generations of lies about our economy that we have a free market capitalist system?No, we don't.This is like some grotesque monopoly based system that's really destructive.And most of our problems flow from that system.So anyway, I don't know, but I'm worried you're going to have a stupid, hateful demagogue leverage the totally legitimate economic frustrations of the country to institute something that's really, really bad.And that's race -based.

I mean, the other thing that we struggle with in the United States is hatred of whites.I don't even know where that comes from.All this talk about anti -Semitism, anti -Semitism.Well, hatred of whites, discrimination against whites is like encoded in our laws.You know, it's like, what?My vision's really simple.

You're not judged by the color of your skin, your ethnic background, what your parents did.That's bonkers.That's blood guilt.It's group punishment.We reject that.It's inherently unjust.

And you treat people on the basis of how they behave.And that is the main thing we need to fix.And that should be true in our economy, too.It doesn't matter whether you know the undersecretary of whatever at the Department of Commerce.Like, everyone has an equal shot.to make it in our society.

Next, I wanted to switch the conversation to Britain, where increasingly right -wing commentators in the US are turning their attention and anger towards.Tucker Carlson has been a vocal critic of Britain's immigration policy, its economy, and its influence in world affairs.Others, like trillionaire Elon Musk, have been accused of interfering in the UK's affairs via his ex -social media platform.I wanted to know what Carlson made of that, and his answer surprised me.Can we take a moment to talk about Elon Musk?You guys don't have a democracy.

What are you talking about?We do.

We do.We do.We do.We do have a democracy.And we can talk about all of those issues.

George Galloway would be the prime minister if you had a democracy.

We can talk about all the issues that you're concerned about, including free speech.

I just love George Galloway.I just want to say that.

I'm sure he'll be very happy to hear that.

He knows.I've told him many times.He's living in exile.He can't even go back to the UK, where he's from.

But there are concerns that Elon Musk is amplifying falsehoods.

What kind of falsehoods?Well, everyone in the media is amplifying falsehoods.

Yeah, but he's the richest man in human history and incredibly powerful and 200 million followers on a platform that he owns.And he says things like civil war is inevitable in Britain.It's just not.

I don't want civil war in Britain or anywhere else.

But it's just not going to happen.

Well, we'll see.

I mean, you know, I've spent the bulk of my adult life covering civil wars in Iraq and Yemen, Afghanistan, Syria.They're awful.It's just not what's happening in Britain.Good.

I mean, I just want to be clear.I don't know where Elon said that or what his views on that are.But I definitely am opposed to civil war because I've seen them also.And they're generational too.They don't just like stop.Their effects are felt for decades.

Generation, so yeah, no, I'm totally opposed to civil war I don't want that which is one of the reason the main reason why I think we need to Rebalance the system to give people a little bit more power a little bit more control over their lives That's it and the problem with Britain.We're talking this before we went on the air.I often beat up on Britain I'm half English.So I feel like I have a right to do that.I have family there So I'm like entitled to criticize Britain, but honestlythe criticisms that I level against Britain are probably even truer in the United States.

It's just Britain is smaller, less than a third the size.So it's like a dollhouse version of the United States.And you can sort of see all of your problems reflected in Britain.So I'm sorry if I'm too mean to Britain.But I don't think you have a democracy.Because here's the measure.

The big things that government is doing, does the majority want them?

The answer is no.So talk me through some of those big things.

Migration and war.Right there.Migration and war.How many people in Britain woke up 40 years ago and said, you know, our manufacturing economy is just too strong.What we really need to do is become a banking and real estate empire.Nobody wanted that.

And it happened.This is all true for the United States, by the way.The economy went from making things, a process that can be difficult and no one wants to work in a Welsh mine, on the other hand, Creating things confers dignity to the person who does it.Banking does not.Real estate does not.And so the economy changed.

The population completely changed.Who wanted that?Did the people who lived in Britain, whose ancestors built Stonehenge, did they ask for this?No, they didn't.Did most Britons want to go to war in Iraq or Syria or Libya or all the other colonial adventures they've been dragged along by the United States to participate in?No, they didn't.

But the latest census shows that 76 % of the population are white.

The majority of births in British hospitals this year are to people whose ancestors are not from Britain.So you could say, and many people do say, it's made Britain better.OK.That's great.Tell me how.Better restaurants.

And I, by the way, I have no doubt that in some ways it has made Britain better.

Yeah, but I mean, you know, when we talk about mass...

The question is, do people want it?And they didn't.So that's not democracy.

No, but the idea that, you know, illegal immigrants are overrunthe country, it's just not true.

We're arguing past each other.You're making an argument that's not related to what I'm saying.

You're saying are people wanting this or not?

I'm saying they never wanted it.There's no evidence that people ever...The people who were born in Britain did not want this level of demographic change.There's no evidence that they did, and there's a massive amount of evidence that they never did want it.And that's...Let's get off Britain, because you're from there.

Don't talk about my country, because it's identical.

No, but what I wanted to get...

So that's not democracy.If you keep getting something you didn't want, you're not in control.

But democracy is then having some time with a government that you didn't want the policies of, and then you wait, and then you vote again for the next...

This is generational.This is generational.It's been going on since the end of the Second World War, where on the big questions, the population gets the opposite of what it wants, no matter who it votes for.And the Iran war is the ur -example.It's the perfect example.People literally voted against an Iran war when they voted for Trump.

They voted against an Iran war.Now with Biden, and Trump said this during the campaign, I was standing right next to him, voting for Biden or Kamala or whoever, whatever zombie they put in to represent the interests of the ruling class, that means a war in the Middle East, endless wars in the Middle East.People voted for Trump so this wouldn't happen.They voted for him, they got it anyway.They got exactly what they would have gotten under Biden or under Chuck Schumer or pick your Democratic leader.It's the same thing.

And that's true in Britain as well, from my perspective as an American watching.But again, I'm not British, so I'm just going to tell you, in the United States, there's no democracy.By definition, if on the biggest questions, who lives here, where do we send people to go die, who gets paid and how much, those are the biggest questions any country faces.If you get the same result no matter who you vote for, you're not in charge.You have no power at all.And the promise of democracy,

that you'll have some power.You're not in charge.You're one person out of 350 million in the United States.But they can't just ignore you while they're just ignoring us.

I guess we've spoken so much about foreign interference in the system of the United States and the concerns you have around sovereignty and democracy.That is the feeling that people have with Elon Musk's interference.They feel that he is encouraging violence.

I get it.

I think it's a smart point.

I don't know specifically about Elon, but I do think when you have an economic system in which the overwhelming majority of the rewards go to a small group of people, that puts that group in charge, by definition.And so I'm not a traditional leftist.I'm not a leftist, down with white colonialism or whatever they're into, up with the trans movement, all this nonsense.But like, I agree with the traditional left on this one point.If you have this concentration of wealth in this few hands, it's very hard for anyone else to have any power at all.So you can't, by definition, have democracy.

I do think that that's true.And I would say the idea that Elon is the threat when Elon owns one social media platform.

Incredibly powerful guy.

I guess.He's providing an alternative.He's like Trump in that sense.He's providing an alternative.So there's him, and you can say, well, I agree or disagree, or he's done something that's reckless, or I think is bad.Got it.

But compared to what?Like, every other media organization in the United States is saying one thing.They're for neoconservative foreign policy and neoliberal economic policy.And then there's Elon, who's like, well, he's got his views, but then he opens it up to other people's views.And some of those people are for neoconservative foreign policy and neoliberal economic policy, and some of them aren't.So like, OK, yeah, it's not in defense of Elon to say, I'm glad.

that we have an alternative to CBS News and Fox.and CBS and NBC and CNN and MSNBC and The New York Times, The Washington Post and like The Economist and every other news organization in the world has one position.And Elon has a kind of buffet style set up where you can kind of pick and choose what you want.

I mean, I guess the concern that many have is that when he says things like violence is coming for you at a massive rally of a far right activist, Tommy Robinson.

Tommy Robinson's not far right.Tommy Robinson is like some kind of agent of Israel whose main concern is that we like not criticize what's happening in Gaza.Tommy Robinson's a total fraud, like an utter fraud.

But at one of those rallies, I mean, Elon Musk did say...It's not even his name.

The whole thing is fake, dude.No, I don't care about Tommy Robinson, who's like, literally like, whatever, the Nick Fuentes of Britain.It's like fake.It's made up.What I care about are ordinary Britons of all colours who see their country becoming something that they didn't sign up for, that they don't want, and they have no way to change the outcome.You had one Labour leader who was the head of the Labor Party, who disagreed on Israel.

And the next thing you know, they, like, call him a Nazi, which he wasn't.I mean, he's kind of a buffoon or whatever, but, like, he was a different flavor.And they slandered him until he just went into obscurity.Same with George Galloway.You can agree or disagree with George Galloway, but he's, like, his own man.Everybody else is on the company program, left or right.

And then you look at reform, which I'm sort of rooted for because I've, and I like Nigel a lot personally, and I've always followed British politics, and I've always wanted there to be an alternative.Once Boris turned out to be identical to any Labour person, you know, the whole thing is fake.With Boris, it was obvious it was fake.This is fake.So then you're like, OK, well, there's reform, and there's reform.They're fake too.

So bonkers because they may have different views on trans or whatever, the fake issues that are designed purely to divide us, but on the questions of foreign policy and economics, they're pretty much the same.

But what makes a society, you know, when people are living in a society, what are they looking for?Cohesion?You know, the measure of a society is life expectancy, infant mortality rates, crime rates.And on all of these fronts, I mean, Britain is doing better than most U .S.

cities.But much worse than it was 40 years ago on all four of those measures.Much worse.

Isn't that happening across the Western world?

A hundred percent.And as I said to you off camera, and I should just say it on camera, I spent a lot of time beating up on Britain, again, because I feel like tied to it in some basic way, but also because I have these identical frustrations about the United States, and it's just easier to beat up on Britain.

So it's sort of projecting the anxiety that you have.Yeah, it's totally projecting.

I was telling you, and I just want to say this again, for the record, I have family in London, and I'm always beating up on London because I've gone there my whole life.And it has definitely not gotten better.It's gotten worse.So I'm always like, Britain, it's out of control.London's out of control.Sadiq Khan, whatever.

And this relative, close relative, said to me, what US city is better than London?And it's just true.London is nicer than any American city.It's just true.I don't want that to be true, but it is true.So I was really stung by that, because it was just undeniable.

So I'm going to suspend all criticism of Britain and just turn it on my own country, because I actually live here, and I really, really care about the United States, and would say that the measures that you just listed, and you were right to put cohesion for societal cohesion.You know your neighbors.You have something in common with them.You care what happens to them.What's important in a family is important in a nation.Way down.

Life expectancy, down.Infant mortality, up.That's happening.And I just feel like those are the measures that matter.I mean, they're not the only measures that matter.But the public has no means by which they can arrest the slide, that they can slow the degradation, clearly.

No matter who they vote for, they get the same policies.That's not democracy.And I guess I'm just autistic or literal or something.I'm enraged when people call that a democracy.How is that a democracy?You get what we're serving tonight.

There's no menu.Here's your slop.You like it or you don't like it, but you're not getting anything else.That's not a restaurant.That's prison.

So let's just call it what it is. I mean, we've spoken a lot for the last hour and a half.

There's been an hour.I've really enjoyed it.

I've enjoyed talking to you.

And I just want to say again, I'm sorry for beating up on Britain.They don't, I've been mean, super mean, and they don't really deserve my meanness.And it is just pent up.frustration about my own country, and it is projection.You're right.I just want to say that.

Where is your country going now?Where do you think, what is the direction of travel now?

Well, of course, I don't know.You know, I have a very bad track record of predicting the future.But my overwhelming sense is that the current order is fracturing.It didn't work.So that's the good news.It didn't work.

And so if something doesn't work, you probably should stop doing it.And I think we are going to stop doing it.And by order, I mean the idea that America runs the world and we're good at it and we're getting something from our empire.That's all a lie.But, you know, change is inevitably accompanied by turmoil.It's just the nature of it.

And so we're entering a bumpy period.And I'm very worried about the economy long term, not gas prices next week, the price of Brent crude.but I'm worried about the U .S.S.dollar and a lot of the affluence that we have enjoyed and that has also hurt us and made us decadent and unrealistic.A lot of that, most of it, the overall majority of that is the result of dollar dominance.

And so we get cheap, I mean, you know the system well, we get cheap imported goods.We can float debt forever.We have a lot of advantages that we're not even aware that we have.And at some point those will end, you know, and I hope it's a kind of gradual tapering off that we can metabolize, but it might not be.And, but it's happening.And so I'm definitely concerned about that.

I'm concerned about the transition from one system to another, the post -war order, which I think worked for a while.There are good things about it, but increasingly became fake.And so we're going to get another order.And I just, I'm always hoping for the best and I'm always optimistic about it.But I also know that, you know, there will be hard landings, I think.

Tucker Carlson.Thank you so much.So fun.