Ishant Sharma on IND vs PAK, Virat Kohli, Jasprit Bumrah & Future ICT | FO412 Raj Shamani

How is it different to play with Pakistan? The way we have talent, infrastructure, we don't even have it around us. Actually, I feel bad for them. Who is the player who comes on the pitch and you feel,

this is a gangster vibe? It was Virat. Because he has had this attitude from the start. No matter how big a problem he faces in life, he knows that he will make runs if he gets out on the field. What was the difference between Mahi bhai's team and Virat's team? Mahi bhai used to do things in a field.

Virat had a basic plan. Then we saw how things went after that. How did you feel when India called you up for the first time? So, Virat and I were room partners. I was lying on the bed. He kicked me and said,

if you get a name, Will you play for India?'' I said, ''Yes, man.'' We've been playing together since childhood. I never understood that we can play for India. You were very aggressive when you played for India. What did you do in front of Steve Smith?

If he played, he would've thrown a test match. You have to do things to upset people. I've been banned won the test match. Things are meant to be upset. I have actually been banned in the test match. Which one? It's about 2015, Sri Lanka. Dinesh Chandimal came and he hit me on the elbow.

Virat knows how to warm up. He said, Dhamika Basant came to kill you. And you didn't do anything? I'm crazy. What did you do with Chandimal? I kicked Chandimal out and left him in the dressing room. And our coach was great, Ravi bhai.

We used to have breakfast in the morning. Sharma, you're still angry. I said, no Ravi bhai, you should be.

Who sleds the most?

Steering. What do they say? Everything.

Do the team members do it or the crowd?

The crowd does it too.

What makes Boomrah so special?

His action.

India is ready to play without stopping. Our guest today is a cricketer who has been playing international cricket for 15 years. And one of the legendary fast bowlers of the Indian cricket team, Ishan Sharma. Today we will learn from him how he established his career in cricket. What is the difference between Delhi and Mumbai's cricket culture? Who can become a cricket star among young players?

Are they retiring from cricket? Did they ever face favouritism in team selection? And how did they go into depression after scoring 30 runs in one over in one match? When their partner became their support, and after that, their whole mindset shifted, which then made them consistently deliver high performance.

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only on Flipkart during the Big Billion fast bowling? You were in Delhi streets. Where did you learn it? Tell me about the beginning. I used to play tennis ball cricket. So, in our society, I used to gather kids and play fast bowling. I started playing with the older kids. They said...

They had a match with someone. He said, he'll hit two sixes on six balls. The tennis ball in Delhi is completely different. It's not a run ball. You have to bet on it. I'll hit three sixes on six balls.

I'll hit two sixes on six balls. That's the bet.

You don't lose or win.

You don't winning or losing. There is no winning or losing. And then someone else will bet on my side. So that's called betting. So you bet on the street and you get money.

The atmosphere is good.

So my friend said, I bet Rs. 1500 on you, but you don't have to take two sixes. I said, okay, I won't take. We won the match. Then he got confidence. He said, we don't want to hit two sixes. I said, okay, we won't hit. We won the match.

Then he got confident. He said, if you want to play again, do it like this. I was also known as the tall guy who hits the tennis ball hard.

How old were you?

14-15 years old.

Okay. You played tennis till 14-15 years old? Yes.

Did you train anywhere? Or was it just in the streets? No cricketing, no academy?

I used to wear rubber slippers and play.

Okay.

Nothing special, everything was normal. So, that's how it happened. Then, once we were sitting like this. My friends remember, we used to sit on the corner. So, my friends remember, we were sitting on a corner, my friend told me that when you are doing so well, why don't you try in a club. So I told my father, he actually told my father that uncle he plays very well, he does fast bowling,

you put him in a club. So my father said, let's see what happens. My mom heard that and said, if he plays, let's put it on the line. I didn't have spikes. Normal trainers.

I took the ball, didn't mark it. I took the ball and threw it. It was the first day of the club. He asked me where the spikes were. I didn't know what spikes were. He asked me to mark a run-up.

I asked him which run-up. We had a small space in the tennis ball. You play in the park, so you have a lot of space. So we played in the park and then we started bowling from a small distance and then started bowling and the ball was going fast

T-shirt was outside So the coach would ask me if I had come to play cricket or to be a goon It was my first day and I didn't understand whether they were here to play cricket or to be a goon. I asked them why they didn't have a cricket t-shirt inside. I didn't know that they had such discipline, rules and regulations. I said, ok sir, we'll come the next day.

Realization was that cricket is difficult when they told us to play two rounds the next day. Before bowling

After warming up

We used to bowl straight away, no warm up, nothing He told me to bowl two rounds After half a round, it felt like the ground was not ending I asked him what is this? You didn't have any stamina, you didn't train I didn't do anything, I just climbed trees

Do you know Pusa? No It was a government land, agriculture land It was not allowed to play on it So we used to leave our of our house from the society That land was very big

And the wall was 7 feet high So we used to jump on it And there was a big canal So that the water used to flow in the agricultural land So that was big

We used to dig it And we used to play on it And we used to play on it And we used to flow in the agricultural land. So it was a big and thick land. We used to dig it. Then there was a very thin strip.

And when there was no farming in the fields, we used to run in the mud. We didn't know that it wasometrics, jumping, beach training. Because the soil is so soft that it's difficult to get out. So we played in that. But we didn't do running like that. Later I understood that when you do all this,

you're automatically training your tendons. When you have knowledge. Too much knowledge is not a good thing. Earlier there was no knowledge. Earlier nothing was known. So automatically you are straining your tendons When you have the knowledge Too much knowledge is not a good thing Earlier you didn't have the knowledge So you ran half the distance

Yes, but I completed 2 rounds So when I completed the 2nd round I asked him again if he will bowl I said give me 5 minutes Now I know cricket is difficult I said it is very difficult after 2 rounds

He said, if you want to play long cricket, tennis ball cricket is very different because you have to put only one over Here you have to prepare to put 20 overs in a day So how will you prepare to put 20 overs? You will run, you will bowl And then the training started from there Then what happened from there was... There were only two rounds of warm-up. When the two rounds started to look easy,

Sir said, now we have to run four rounds. Then we did four rounds. After those four rounds, we used to do matting. So, from the net to the matting And the matting is actually heavy

20 kgs of mat So you had to bring the mat And it was around 1.5 km So you have to bring the mat And then you have to set it up on the wicket so that other kids can play Not you, other kids

For small kids, it was tough for us At that time, there were not many facilities The infrastructure was not like today I see people or kids We want good run run up, good landing, perfect wicket, ball, but not like that in our time We want to do everything in this

So we used to bring the matting, kids used to go there, practice there, they used to do the matting Then after the matting, there used to be a roller, if the wicket was wet, you had to roll it There were 4 people, 2 would push from there and 2 would pull from here So you would start bowling and you would reach the ground at 12

and you would finish till 1 and then you would started bowling at 1pm. You would bowl from 1pm till it was dark.

You would keep bowling. How did you build your stamina?

When you bowled for the first time? When I bowled for the first time, I went home and complained to my parents. I said, what kind of cricket is this? They don't even stop me. And our coach, even if you ask him for water, he'd say,

go away. So I was scared. Actually, just like a coach, I was a teacher. Dangerous. Dangerous. Now I become very soft now. Have you ever been beaten?

No, he has been abused a lot. Which is normal. No, he never used to walk on the ground with sticks. But he was very rough and tough.

Yes.

So, sir made him very tough.

Yes.

And the first thing he did was, he did was to quit tennis, ball and cricket. He asked you to stop betting. It's not about betting. He said, there is a limited amount of energy. Either you can give it in practice if you want to play. Or you can give it in tennis, ball and cricket.

So you completely stopped betting.

Completely stopped.

Did you miss it?

Sometimes, if I went quietly, my friends would call me and ask me to come back. It was for a while, but my dad would come back. I was scared of him, but no one else. When he would come to give me a punishment, he would give me such a punishment that I would say,

I made a mistake. What would he give you? He would say, keep rolling. I used to get punished for saying something wrong. What did you get punished for? I was told to keep rolling. Until it was over. I was told to play tennis, ball and cricket. I was told to keep bowling.

And keep doing it. I was told not to stop. So, I felt that they were improving in terms of punishment. They were training you in a way. But who told you for the first time that you are different as a bowler? That you will be able to play. You will play long. You will play India.

Sir didn't tell me. I was told by my father.

What?

That there is something in it. And what did he think of his pace? He throws fast. He throws fast. Yes, he was a waver. Because if you play with a tennis ball, it doesn't swing.

You just throw it with force. So, that develops your arm speed. But later, when I took up cricket, on the first day, I was going to different poles. I didn't understand the swing. I didn't know about the ball's swing.

But the coach didn't stop me. He told me to play the match. My friend, the wicket-keeper, still talks to me and he laughs. He says, in the first match, I wicketkeeper, my friend, still talks about us, he laughs. He says, in the first match, you made me a goalkeeper, not a wicketkeeper. I don't know where he got that from. And the ball he used to put in the stumps, it would get out.

But, if you have seen anything in anyone, then sir is backing him. That he will play. You had given a statement somewhere that you didn't know when and how you would bowl. Maybe you would bowl straight but you didn't know how the batsman would know. This is a normal thing. There are many balls. A new term has started, the wobble seam.

What is that? It's a seam, you hold it straight, the batsman sees the shine. If you keep the shine here, it'll be an out swing, if you keep it here, it'll be a win swing. Now, you hold it a little crooked, you hit it hard, and then you don't know if the ball will come in or out after hitting the ball. How will the batsman know? So you used to do this? I still do this and this is cricket.

In cricket, you can say that someone threw the ball out. There is wicket, there is weather, everything is there. The wicket is wet. The ball came in after hitting the ball. No one can do anything in that situation.

It came in at the seam.

How many times did you score and then it went out? It happens twice out of ten.

Okay, twice out of ten. There's flow and rhythm. Your intention should be the same. You should have scored here. But it's important to have's flow and rhythm. Yes, your intention should be the same as you had put it here. But it's important to have a line and length. What do you think was your strength when you were at the peak of the ball? I was very reactive.

What do you mean?

Reactive means physical. I'm talking about... I used to run very well. So you used to see the opponent? Not see but when you are reactive, things are smooth When you get bulkier, reactiveness goes away

So it helps you in getting into the flow easily

Because fast bowling is about running And you run a lot Yes, running is important. If you don't run, how will you get reactiveness? Now you train reactiveness.

Yes, that was your strength.

Earlier we used to jump over walls, over a canal, and then play in the fields. So automatically the tendons become so strong that you automatically become reactive. And when did this become your passion? At what point did you start playing? I used to throw fast and play in the streets,

but then I started playing. And your coach told your dad, all of this is great. When did it happen for you that now I will put my life at stake? If I play, I will play in India and India and play at the top level? See...

Did you have a point, sir?

No.

Things happened to me very quickly. In 2014, you joined the club and in 2019, you scored a test debut. Yes, I scored a test debut in 2018. But I didn't play properly for a year after that.

Hmm. Why? I tou my debut in 2018. But I didn't play properly for a year after that.

I played in England Tour in 2007. After that... I made my debut in 2007 in Bangladesh. Then I played in Australia. I didn't play in the time between that. Why didn't you play?

I don't know. The selectors know. Everyone knows. You don't think you played?

I was young. There were many people at that time. RP Singh, Irfan Pathan, Munaf Patel, Zaheer Khan. There were many more people. So they felt that this should give more game time. So I used to play there and play first class cricket. And while doing all this, when I saw the 2007 World Cup T20

and how India won, I used to get excited about all that. As a kid, I used to think that I was playing for the country and all these things were happening. You get excited, but when you go to the ground, that excitement ends. Because you have to focus on bowling.

You don't see who is in front of you, what will happen, if you win, there will be a celebration. You focus on bowling. First, you focus on this, then there will be a celebration. But how did it feel when India called you up for the first time?

That you will play for Team India.

Different feeling. When did you feel that? Explain me that feeling. When did you feel that? How did you feel when you got the call for the first time? What was the process? Did you feel that you were going to play for India? So, what happened was...

My first season was Ranji Trophy. There was a match in between that Shant Sharma was going to South Africa to replace Munaf Patel. Me and Virat were room partners. We had a long fielding. At the end of the display, I was lying in the whites in the room. I had thrown 22-23 overs.

He changed the news in a jiffy. I was lying down with my eyes closed. He said, Shant Sharma will replace Muraf Patel. He said, Your name is on the list of India's players.

You will play for India? I said, let me sleep. I am very sleepy. He kicked me, Your name is on the list your name is mentioned, you will play for India I got up and he was serious, I looked at him He said, yes

We both played together since childhood He used to pick me up from Patel Nagar bus stop We used to go to up from Patel Nagar bus stop to Kotla.

He never realised that we could play for India. where we lived. I won't say it was a struggle. I'll say I loved it. I enjoyed the grind. How did you feel?

I didn't go to India.

I don't know if it was in the media. Then the media came, the interview and everything. Then we were playing our match for the Benzino Trophy. Suddenly it happened that he wasn't going. I don't know what happened. Then it was going down in the media. That the youngster's morale was broken, this and that.

We were laughing. It didn't matter to us, we are actually very desi Why wasn't it affecting you? What difference would it make? We have to play, right? What's our job? End of the day, we have to play We'll play here

But still, we have to play for Team India We didn't even know Now you realize that the heroes you have seen on TV, if you see them in reality, how will you react? You don't even know. Yes, no idea.

So, that thing was never made so big that it felt like India is very big.

No.

Cricket is big, we play cricket.

We have to play cricket. We have to bowl. It should be fun, play for fun. Just like what is written in the news, you were all excited. Nothing happened. We were just joking. It was the end of the day display.

We lost the match the next day. We went to Ranji Trophy. We played in Rajkot, Solastra. We had some egg rolls or something. We had tea. We went to sleep. But did you sleep with the hope that

it will happen today or someday? That it doesn't matter? It doesn't matter. Wow. And then when did it happen next time? Then the whole season...

Did Virat get an NDA debut?

No. Virat got it later, in 2008. So, the whole season ended. Virat's was later, in 2008 The whole season was over After that I got a call from a selector that you are going to Bangladesh I told my family

My family was very happy that I am going to India My father only had one wish, that I should take up a government job Did this not mean that you would play for India? He was happy that I was playing for India But that's the way middle class people think, that they should first get a job in the future

When I went there, I realized that this is a different picture. What did you realize? Even in first class cricket, we used to play for fun. But when I came to international cricket, I realized... that if you want to do well here... because there are a lot of people's expectations.

Till first-class cricket, it's only your own expectation. That you want to do well and you should win the team. It wasn't like that there. You saw that Sachin Paji was playing there. Dada, Rahul, Mahi, Zak, Bhajji, Yuvi were there. So imagine, I am a youngster sitting amongst them.

And all these things are happening. I remember in 1999, there was an MRF Cup. The one that Paji had played in. There was a board and we used to hit the ball in Sharjah. We have those memories. And then suddenly, you see it from the front.

You don't understand how you react. And the first time you sit with these people, all of them were stars, all senior players. Do they bully you? Do they make fun of you? Young players are here, they're just having fun.

No.

No?

There's nothing like that in cricket. You have to give your debut speech. You have to stand up and give it. And if a young or a senior player wants to have fun, it's not like you're having fun and bullying. No one has ever bullied anyone.

It's just a matter of standing up and giving a speech. That's fine. Our seniors are so supportive. Who was the most supportive when you entered for the first time? Who was the one who encouraged you to grow and mentor? I think everybody.

When I was debuting in Bangladesh, because I had just reached there, I played after 2 days. And one night before, I was not able to sleep because I was not able to understand. I was told that I would get a test cap tomorrow and I would be the 281st player to play for India and make my debut.

Anil bhai and even Paaji had told me that the light of Chaka Chowm is only is short-lived. Then your focus is only on the game. You won't be able to hear or see the light. So when he said, these things don't matter. How you got to this point, he was the one who paid attention.

He enjoyed it. It's the same thing, the same ball, the same wicket. The same batsman. Maybe the quality of the batsman is a bit high, but his mental preparation will be better. And you will learn that slowly.

So, it doesn't matter where you are from?

Where we are from, how far we have come. When I wake up in the morning and see that I can live here too. So it is very important to realize this in life. If you don't realize this, then it's no use.

True. True.

Like you said, from where I have come, there is one very interesting thing from where I have come, that is Delhi gang.

Delhi...

Delhi people's attitude, Delhi gang is very different. So explain to me a little about Delhi vs Mumbai dynamics. Because people talk a lot online. I think Delhi gang is different. They shoot more, they play less on the ground. Their attitude is more rowdy.

Gangster environment.

Yes, see, everywhere is equal. It's not like there is't have a Porsche locality. But the area where we come from is called West Delhi. So there is a big difference between West Delhi and South Delhi. South Delhi is Porsche. West Delhi is totally rowdy.

So even in Mumbai, if you see, I don't know the names of the areas. Now talk about Rohit Sharma. Rohit Sharma has come from a very rough, rowdy area. Okay. Rowdy area. He knows how to play. So his hunger... Not hunger, I'll say his way of playing was different.

You can see that in their lifestyle. But who comes from the posh areas in Delhi? Who comes from the posh areas versus who comes from the West Delhi? There were a lot of people in our team.

Who?

I mean, in our team, in the U19 team, there was a son of a big lawyer in the Delhi team.

Some are sons of someone. The one who played for India?

India, just take say Gautam Gaya. From the posh area. Not from the posh area, he was the one who was well settled.

Yes, well settled, fancy family.

But his way of playing, his way of treating was totally different.

Yes, he is an aggressive player.

Aggressive player, Ladaku. The way he treated the players was totally different. He is an aggressive player. Aggressive player, ladaku. Ladaku in a good sense. You will see that in the lower leagues. If he makes 100 runs, I will make 200. If he makes 200, I will make 400.

Competitive, dangerous. If he scores 100 runs, I will score 200. If he scores 200, I will score 400. It happens because there is a lot of day's cricket in Bombay. Delhi has a 40-over match. So, there is no day's cricket in Delhi. They don't care about anyone. you should play in the Delhi League.

Thief bowler means...

a left-arm spinner will throw the ball from the lowest position.

only up to your ankle height.

Very trick. Upside down. Okay. It becomes difficult to make runs in this.

They won't give.

And how do batsmen come? They are so fat. They will move aside like this. If the ball comes inside, they will move aside like this and hit it. The third man has the ball comes in, he'll move aside and hit it like this. With the third man. You might think, I'll go ahead and throw it a little further.

When you throw it further, he knows that he'll throw it further. So he stands in front. He stands in front of his crease. He stands in front and chips it slightly. It's great. So, all these tricks are used in Delhi

because if you want to improve your one day credit, you should play in Delhi. What is the relation of aggression? Like, you both were in the same room, Virat and you. You both are aggressive players, you give reactions on the pitch, you create an atmosphere while playing.

How does this come about? Were you like this in the room?

Yes.

Is it because you were both very aggressive?

No, it's a passion. You play because you have a passion. You don't have a passion. The hunger to win is different. And what happens is... Nobody should be touched.

If a player from my team or another team says something... It's not like they're open to it. Like a bull. They say, you're open. Go. So, it's how it was. It's been like that since the beginning.

Have you ever played in a game like that? Like, you're playing against Delhi. You've played against UP or Gujarat. And the atmosphere was hot. You touched our team. And then you were like, let's show them.

Yes, I've done that a lot. And then you were like, let's tell them. Yes, it happened a lot. Where did it happen the most? In first-class cricket, we were playing against Swarastra. Pujara was playing and so was Jaddu. We played with Jaddu since the start of U-19. We played together in the same batch.

So, we used to have a lot of banter going on between us in Hazim Azad. Then there was a guy, a fast bowler. He hit me twice in the first class cricket. He was standing on the mid-on. He said, what are you doing? If you get hit by that, you'll die.

He knew that... In our language, it's called, Tina Patla. Tina Patla? He was shocked and said, the thin tin is very thin. Tin is very thin? Yes, the thin tin that you see, the sheet that you put on top of it, the sheet that you put on top of it,

the sheet that you put on top of it,

when it gets hot, it gets very hot, and when it gets cold, it gets cold. So he said, the thin a thin tin. So that it gets hot quickly. So he heated it up in two minutes.

I outed him on the third ball. The dressing room at Roshnara was like, if you play like this, you go like this. So I outed him. I was going like this, I hit him on the shoulder and he went down. On purpose? Yes, on purpose

At that time, Mithun was our captain He told me that these things won't work in my captaincy When we were returning, he scolded the senior players He told me not to do such things He said I would get banned. I told him I didn't do anything. He was just giving me a ride.

So we used to do such things. Every time?

Yes.

Who did you fight the most in terms of matches? Who had the most dangerous rivalry? Mumbai. Mumbai or Punjab?

Mumbai.

Yes. Punjab and Mumbai both. In North, Punjab and Mumbai. And why is that? Because it's a good team. So, from the beginning, we were taught that in Punjab's team, there are big-name players.

They are there. They have to defeat them. No matter what. And in the zone, it's all about pride. So, the first matches were North Zone, South Zone, East Zone, West Zone. So, when that happened, who will be the top scorer in your zone?

Nice.

And when you played for India on the pitch, you were very aggressive. Every time, you expressions. What did you do in front of Steve Smith? You were a meme everywhere.

What was that reaction? Why?

He was actually very aggressive. So, I had to upset him. That was a very important test match. It was the third test match. We lost the first one. The second one was a draw. It was the third one.

If we hadn't done that, if you had left loose or move a foot from the paddle, they actually finish it. So that test match was such that if we don't upset them and if they play, they would have taken out the test match. So he didn't understand what happened to me me. Things are meant to upset people. So, you were just upsetting him to get him to understand. You were doing psychological sledging.

You get emotional everywhere you go. When you were told by Mithun that you'd be banned, did you get emotional everywhere you went? Yes, I got emotional a lot in the beginning.

I have been banned in a test match.

Which one?

Yes, Ravi Shastri.

Actually, I hit him with a bouncer and fractured his left arm. the bowlers from the other team only used to hit with a bouncer.

And we used to let them out. I said, no, I don't want to out, hit me. So he hit me. So I hit him. So his hand got fractured. He came and when I was batting, he started hitting me with a bouncer. He hit me once, twice, three times.

And it was hot, the ball was thin. When he hit, I was 4th and he hit. I took a run. He didn't say anything. I didn't do anything. I was crossing him. I said it before leaving.

I said, you're too slow to hit on my head.

You got banned on this?

No. I got banned later. Okay, so you were hit on the head. It started from here. So he did something, then he said something,

then there was a fight, then there was a little heat. Then suddenly Dinesh Chandimal came from the third band and he put his elbow on me. So I mean, I was getting hot

from the Dhammika Prasad. Dinesh Chandimal to the chandi He did this and Ashwin got out. I was running inside because I had to change my shoes. So when I was changing my shoes, suddenly Ravi Shastri and his manager came out of the dressing room. I didn't know what was happening.

He thought that Dhammika Prasad and I were in a fight. But I didn't know that Dhammika Prasad was following me. So I went inside the dressing room and he came to the door. Then I realized that I had to fight him. Dhammika Prasad was following you to the dressing room? I didn't know that because I was running and I had to fight well. Dhamika was right behind you. I didn't know because I was running. I had to change my shoes.

So... Virat knew how to make him feel better. I didn't realize anything. I was changing my shoes. He said, you were right behind him and you didn't do anything. I asked him who was right behind him. He said, Dhamika Bas Basant came to beat you.

I said, when did he come to beat me? I don't know.

Hmm.

Then?

Then Ashwin came and asked, did you get hurt? I said, how would I get hurt? I am fine. You are out. He said, Dinesh Chandimal hit you on the stomach with his elbow. I asked him when he hit me. And he got the clip out. I went crazy.

I literally went crazy. Because I don't know why, I I'm not generally aggressive at home But I have a protective mode If something happens, I get into that protective mode So when he showed me, ball, I couldn't control myself. Then I went. Then the rule was that you can't celebrate in front of the batsman's face.

So I celebrated by going near his face. Before that, I had already paid the match fee. It was the same. Then... Dinesh Chandimal came. He was out.

Then someone else came and he was out. Then we celebrated. By then I was banned.

You celebrated in front of everyone. What did you do with Chandimal?

I outed Chandimal and left him in the dressing room.

You went with him. You got banned for that. Yes.

So, these things and then Rohit told me many times that I should not get angry or I will get banned. I should not get angry.

I try not to get angry. But, somewhere always a situation. And our coach used to agree with me.

Why?

The next morning, we were having breakfast. He asked me, Sharma, are you still angry? I said, no, Ravi bhai. You should be. I said, Ravi bhai, forget it. There was a statement somewhere, right? You were calm in a match.

And Ravi said, you should be angry.

Yes, that's what he said.

He said, how can you be calm and angry? He was like that. He knew where to pin the ball and how to get it to pass.

So he used to trigger you? You say he's a charger, he knows when to open which line to charge.

Did he say anything else? No. Later, when his tenure started, he became a senior player. He had these things in his mind, that this will happen, that will happen. You know your mindset.

Then he became sincere. And it happened in the IPL recently.

What happened with Ashutosh Sharma? That was nothing.

What happened?

I didn't tell him anything. These things are forced to hype. So I gave him a slower bouncer. I gave him a slower bouncer, he hit the ball to the other side of the post. No one heard me. I was so tired that I couldn't react.

I asked him to tell me the truth. He said, it was here. That's how it happened. Were you both emotional? He said, brother, it's here. This is what happened. That's it. So, the hype was such that you and he showed emotions. I am saying the same thing. Until you don't listen to me, until you don't do anything, things happen like this.

If something like this would have happened to me, I would have been matched. It would have been a demerit point. Nothing happened. Why didn't it happen? I swore at him and people thought I was crazy. I told him the truth.

It was a joke. He is such a junior player. He is playing and he has just started. I am not saying anything to him. But juniors mess up. Yes, Delhi's players are on a different level.

Why? Who are they?

Badoni, Rishabh, Yash Dul. We have become very mischievous guys. Why? Last year, we were playing a knockout match against Delhi. We went to Bangalore. We came out of the airport early. We came out and we were sitting in the bus.

He was sitting up there, thinking about the game. I asked him, what's the matter? There's still time for the match. Don't be serious. He said, I'm not being serious. I need to talk to you. He was the captain. He said, the captain's meeting is the day after tomorrow.

You go. I'm a little busy. I said, I'll cut you from the bus.

He was having fun. He's having fun.

I'm having fun. But does it happen that junior players mess with seniors in IPL? Because there's so much competition and migration that juniors are limited because they don't talk much to seniors. No.

I mean, it's a competitive sport. You have to do well, he has to do well, you have to do well. Everyone has the same aim. Your team should win. There's no such person. It happens like the Delhi boys, Badoni.

We were playing in Lucknow. It was last year. He hit me with a bat and he was hitting me like this. I said, Badoni, I'll put it in my pocket and take you.

In my pocket.

He looked down. I said, I'll put you in my pocket.

And it doesn't continue outside the pitch, right?

So, the competitiveness is different.

You don't want to lose to him, no matter what. if he scores a four, he won't let you win.

I mean, he has come...

Because at that time, everyone was a legend. Actually, the only person I saw was Virat. Or is still there. Because his attitude was like that from the start. That I have come. That I have come and he knows that I will score. Never did you see him in any other zone?

No, the zone is very different.

He has never been affected by anything else. Cricket, Sir. I mean, no matter how big a problem he has in his life, he knows that if he gets into the field, he will score. I don't know how it was somehow. He left the outside voice outside. And always like that? Always.

Never any other... If he came back at 2 or 3 in the night, and was also batting overnight, the next day he would bat 200. What brought this change in him? Because he was a rowdy from Delhi, a fun guy.

From there, now, today, the Virat Kohli we see today, he's an extreme disciplined Virat Kohli. See, I think he understands. If he wants to play, he understands the body type. If I want to play, I have to be fit. If I'm fit, I can play for a long time.

There will be reflexes. If I want to play, I have to be fit. If I am fit, I can play for a long time.

My reflexes will be strong. And if you do only one thing in today's game, then you have to manage somewhere. So he said, if I want to be strong, I have to be fit. Only when I am fit, I can do well in the field. But when did this change happen? When? What was this pivotal point?

I think 2011. After the World Cup? After the World Cup and after the IPL. Somebody told me that when he went to the RCB and when he was playing with other senior players, that was a very inspirational turning point in his life.

Yes, but after that, one thing that happened was that they were not winning matches. So he felt that someone had to change the system.

He had to level up.

So he took the responsibility. But he didn't think that I will change the team. I am a good player, I will go somewhere else. That is the easiest thing. What is the difficult thing? But what stuck him that I will stay there and do it? Because many people do easy things and go around.

Yes, but if you do difficult work and you are successful from there, then your confidence level is completely different. And he chose that path. Nice.

Okay.

Then...

We were talking about sledging. Who sledges the most? As in team-wise? Australians. Australians sled a lot. What do they say? Everything.

What is it that they don't say?

Is it allowed?

I mean, yes. They know that they doesn't say? Is it allowed? He knows that he won't say it directly.

For example, you are a batsman.

Two teammates are talking to each other, but they are talking about you.

A bowler is bowling. He comes to you and covers his mouth.

And says something and leaves.

Did anyone say anything to you? I was drinking water, that's when I was told. I went out with the team to go-garting, that's when people started abusing me. So, it's normal. And I feel like we never cared. And we can never care about all this. But it's normal in Australia.

Even some parts of UK. Like if you play in Leeds, you can also experience this. Do the team players do this or the crowd? The crowd does it. Who is the worst crowd? The one that creates a lot of pressure.

Australia. They get into your head. And they are shouting and talking from outside. They are not shouting. They are like, if you have given 50 runs as a bowler, they clap and say that you have also scored 50 runs.

If you have given 100 runs, they give a stand in ovation that you have also scored 100 runs. They are like that.

They are misbehaving.

Now imagine, you have gone for a team activity, go-karting, relax. Four people are standing there and just abusing you. Why? Because they know that they will get into your head. No, they know that their country's love is different. We should do the same. Of course, we should.

When we see something like that. But actually, we are the ones who love cricket. Yes, we love it a lot. All the people who come here, they show their love to everyone. So, their country comes first. Yes, you are a good player.

They respect you. It's not that they don't respect you. Sometimes they respect me. They say, you bowled brilliantly. But if you are playing against their country's players, they are against you.

Have you ever fought with an international player?

Yes, I have. When we fought with Jimmy Anderson, he said something to Boomera.

What?

Boomera hit him on the helmet a couple of times. Then he said, I am number 11, that's why you are just bowling no balls to me and then hitting me on my helmet. So I went to him and asked, what do you expect? You are number 11, so he shouldn't hit you on your helmet. Should he give you flowers or what?

So, after that, the whole team got charged. The test match we won against them in the start over, it all started from there. How could you say that to a player?

Fair.

Absolutely right.

So, we play like this. And we realized all this when... That's why our team, when we used to play together, we never used to verbally banter with anyone. Because the whole team used to stand up.

That's a good thing.

No matter how much difference there is between someone,

no matter what, but if you say something to a single player, That's a good thing. No matter how much difference there is between people, but if you say anything to a single player,

You have to be ready.

No, this was after 2015.

This was after Virat and Ravi Shastri.

I feel this thing starts when people of the same age are there. When senior and junior are together, it is not that easy. We were together and we were talking He said, I was, Shammi, Bubi, Umesh, Boomra So we were sitting together and talking And everyone's age is almost the same So me, Shammi, Bubi, Umesh, we are of the same age There is a difference of 1-8 years.

And then Bhoomra is a little younger. But Bhoomra is very smart. He knows that if he wants to be successful, he has to do international cricket. Then Virat used to say that when you are of the same age and when everyone sees you, even people who don't have that nature, like Pujara, he doesn't have that nature, Jinkya doesn't have that nature. But when he sees 9 people fighting and dying, he starts to get emotional.

So that's how it started. But what happens in the dressing room, Virat is now the head, the captain, what will people say? If one person doesn't say anything, everyone will get angry. Was this...

Did people say anything?

This is not a matter of saying. This is natural. No one says this. No one charged you and said anything? There's a clip where everyone is in a test match

and Virat is saying something in between.

Yes, it was the same test match for the Lords. 60 of us, they should feel like hell out there. So, it was the same test match that Jimmy Anderson had told Bumrah. And then we charged them. I was like, then they should feel like hell. And you guys made it hell.

Nice.

Bumrah...

You spotted him very early on. What was that?

When I was playing against Bumrah, it was a Delhi-Gujarat one-day. And the ball was coming out of his hand. I saw such a bowler in India after a long time. Because generally, if a fast bowler is good and he is bowling fast, then he can play.

And the way he was bowling at that time... It was fun to watch. But you then... You told Ravi Shastri, what was that whole thing? Tell me. You saw Bumrah as a young player. Yes, when the match was over, we had to go to Australia.

When we went to Australia, I got a ball in my hand while I was practicing. I had a finger surgery. I didn't play the first match. Ravi Bhai asked me who else was the bowler. I said, Ravi Bhai, the boy who was spinning the spade.

He said, he was a different bowler. He asked me why. I said, he was a different bowler. Later, technology made it so that he releases late. But at that time, it was clear that he wasn't throwing 140-145. But the off-the-wicket nip, the ball should kiss the surface and not stop.

So, the way he was kissing the ball it felt like I was on the bat so fast that the batsmen were late.

So, you noticed that.

Yes. So, I told him to take me to him sometimes. It was different.

And then?

Then he came. Things worked out. But did you ever mentor him? Because you were inside. You worked with Bumrah. I didn't have to work with him. He's actually very smart.

When we were playing the 2018 series, we made 250 runs in the first inning in Adelaide. And... I outed Finch in the first spell. Bhoomra's first spell didn't go well. Chiku was getting hot, etc.

So I told him to leave it, he's very smart. So he chatted with Virat that no, everyone is together, etc. So I told him that he's very smart, he's not smart now, so in the second spell he'll understand and come back and give you 2-3 wickets. So he did the same thing. I told him, if you need to explain, maybe you should ask Shami or Umesh. But he doesn't need to explain.

He'll do it himself. What's something about him? About Bumrah? What makes him special? He's very smart and very confident.

But what's about his bowling? Like, he's number one in... Bumrah stands in India...

Everyone in the world knows that he is... Yes, so plus point is his action.

Yes.

Plus, he understands his action. That I will do this and that in my action. Now, the way he rolls his wrist and throws a slower ball. How many people in the world cricket put a slower ball like this? One is him and the another. Mustafiz. You catch the ball like this and the ball rolls from here.

There is no one.

There is no one. The one who has a wrist like this, he can't throw either. Because the wrist is like this. Think about how a fast bowler's wrist will be like a Murali Dharam. So this is a plus point for Bhumrao because he has hyperflexion. And no one else could replicate this? Hyperflexion is natural.

It is God's gift. Shoaib Akhtar had hyperflexion in his elbow. That's why he used to bowl so fast. So that's an advantage. And then he's obviously very hardworking and very smart. So, it just works out very, very well.

So, God gave him the talent and the hyperflexion. But he has lost his smartness and confidence. And then tell me the difference between when you used to play with Mahi bhai.

What was the difference between Mahi bhai's team versus Virat's team?

He likes to do things on the field. Like, how the game situation is going on. We'll plan accordingly. We'll take decisions accordingly With Virat, it was not like that. We would have a basic plan, then we would see how things are going. We stick to the plan. And then we would come in and change it.

On the field. On the field, it depends on the situation on the field. But with Mahi bhai, we were not that focused on meetings.

Why?

He played cricket like this and no one understood meetings.

Let's play the game.

Yes.

And his simple funda was that if you make a mistake, you will learn. And they said that if you make a mistake and how much time you take to make the second mistake, that's consistency for you.

Nice. If you had done it quickly, then...

Consistency would have been less. And what is the difference in the spirit of the team? Because when a calm, composed player, a very aggressive, out there, reactive player, you can see at least on the game... I mean, you can see it on the faces on TV.

See, Mahi bhai... He looks like that, but he used to give a lot of sweet punches.

What do you mean?

It was the Champions Trophy final, it was raining, and everyone thought the match would be washed out. So he said one thing, that this match will happen, it will be small. And don't think that God will come and win the match or God will come something. You have to do it yourself. It's all about you. So, they say, believe in God, but believe in yourself. Do you get very aggressive in the field? In the Champions Trophy, someone shot me. I was standing on the mid-on.

I thought he was going to shoot from above me. So, I ran behind him and he hit me from below. So I ran to cut the angle and the ball came out from below. I dived and hit him from below. I got two runs in that.

Three.

That's enough. And what about Mahi bhai? Everyone saw him as a big brother. We didn't just teach him how to play the game. We taught him how to play the game and do well. But he shouldn't be a senior or junior in the team.

How to live life. How to interact with others. So you can learn a lot of life skills from Mahe.

And with Virat?

Virat is a childhood friend. So what happened with him? Aggressive. What happened to him? He was aggressive. Yes, later on, he had a plan of how things should go. His simple plan was that if we wanted to win, we had to get 5 bowlers. So we reduced one batsman, which he took the responsibility of. He had to stop at the crease.

Only then we could reduce one batsman and get five bowlers. I responded, no extra kill. He said the same thing in the batting meeting. He said, if you take 20 wickets, you scored 200 runs, 250 runs, you have four bowlers,

three of which are fast bowlers, if by chance someone gets hurt, you don't have extra questions. So that's how Virat used to be. And I used to say, if your bowler gets tired, go and tell him, I'm taking a break, let me bowl again.

But was there a difference in team spirit? Or was it more aggressive? Like Virat, you started focusing more on fitness. What were the changes? I didn't understand that much because...

You wanted to bowl with me.

Yes, I didn't even notice so many things. My brother used to say, I want to bowl. I said, yes, I want to. Virat used to say, we'll do this and that. This is like this, that is like that.

We used to discuss a lot of things. But we never planned anything one on one with a batsman. Like we won for the first time in Australia. So I asked our video analysis for the first time, who did the best here? Which team did it? He said South Africa was the most successful in Australia.

Why? Because they scored the most number of made-ins. So focus on made-in overs. So focus on made-in overs. So how many made-ins can you score? If you have scored made-ins from this age to this age in the whole series, then Australia struggled.

And then you implemented that strategy. But adding a maiden doesn't mean bowling outside. Adding a maiden means consistently bowling in good areas with aggression. And then one surprising different delivery. You have to do things like this. And what is more successful in bowling as a bowler?

Fast bowlers are more successful or those who are a little slow but bowl well? See, consistency. Bowl any type of ball, but bowl consistently. But is there anyone who can bowl more than 150? Yes, Mayank Yadav. Unfortunately, he is injured. But, Umran Malik.

Who are the top 3 in the world who can score 145-150? Mark Wood, Jofra Archer, Mitchell Stark. Is there anyone in India who can bowl at this level? You are talking about line and length consistency or... Speed. Speed with line and length. Speed with line and length consistency or speed? Speed with line and length. Speed with line and length is a boomerang.

If you bowl at a good place, as in you analyse the wicket and decide that this is a good area and I have to bowl there. Plus, my speed should be 140-145. This is maximum. Because if you want area and speed, it can't be 150. So you can't even put a stack? No. That 140-145 but good areas. Best.

Gold. Gold. So which next generation gold ballers do you think

who can replace Bumrah at some time in future maybe?

Mayank Yadav. But still they have a lot to learn. He has to do his fitness so that he is strong and then potential wise he is the only one so that he becomes strong. And then, potential-wise, he is the only one. As of now, he is the only one.

And no one else?

See, he has a lot of talent. But pace plus consistency. His basic is good. Just next generation, the three ballers that you think... Because in the Indian team, the batsmen are coming one after the other. Like, you name it. They have made good batsmen sit outside.

Because there is so much competition and so many people. See, bowlers... Like the ones who went to England, they are all good. Even take Siraj, Akash Deep, Prasidh, Harshadip. But they are different. Harshadip is the one who can swing the ball. Prasidh's plus point is that he has a bounce.

He is similar to me. So he is not... Because you asked about Bhoomra. He is not similar to Bhoomra. Prasidh is similar to me. Tell me three golden bowlers. In case... Forget Bhoomra, forget everything. Who do you think will be the star bowlers in the next generation?

Prasidh. Arshadip. Should I say Mia or no? No, because he's already an established player. Prasidh, I think... Arshadip.

Akashdeep. I'm saying Akashdeep because he has worked hard in first-class cricket. And the one who has a good first-class cricket record, he will always play good test cricket. And what was special about their bowling? Akash said that he has worked hard and has a strong foundation.

He has a strong foundation, but he is as skitty it is, the more skitty it is. Off the wicket. Prasidh has the bounce and pace. Harshadip swings both ways. So, these three players. And do you think they have the wicket-level capabilities?

I think it's all about fitness. If you're fit enough, if your base is strong, then you can understand the game. You can predict the situation.

So, things become simple. Do you think that every era has a star bowler? And the second and third bowlers... I mean, the stardom value is less. They have less priority. Their priority is less. They take less names.

But they play the same role. Because in a spell, what we see from the outside, one creates pressure and the other utilizes that pressure to take the wicket. But the name is the wicket-holder.

See, there is a tendency that if you create a star, and actually I am not in favor of creating a star. And I never focus on all these things. Because my motive has always been simple, that who is winning the team. You put pressure, take the second wicket, there you will make him think that he he took five wickets. I said, okay, you take it. It was your job to make the team win. I think players shouldn't think about all these things.

But they do it. Sometimes, they do it to someone. I'm sure 80-90% of the players who say they want to play for Team India, they want to make the team win. It affects 10% sometimes, right? Outside, maybe...

This guy's name is getting a lot of attention and this guy's not.

I'm also working so hard. No. Does it ever happen? Name... There's one thing, Chandni for four days and then Andheri Raat.

This is for four days, right?

Yes.

What will you do after that? After that, you'll be at home, eating home cooked food, spending time with family. So, you create memories. Memories are created when you win difficult tours. Like India has leveled up on England tour. So, they created these memories he created... We were the first team in the UK to level the series against England.

In 2018, we beat Australia in the 21st. We became number one. Our fast bowlers... Our fast bowlers created a record break. We were five fast bowlers. These are all memories. How many wickets I took, how many Shami took, how many Bhoomra took,

it doesn't matter. What do you think? Because we are talking about a new team. What do you think about Shukman? Since he got the captaincy, some players perform better he has a responsibility.

Some players perform better.

So, he is with him. And you saw Siraj's performance.

See, Mia is different. Mia is...

I can relate to Mia. How? What? Whether the leg is broken,

If I want to play, I'll play. You just have to bowl. And what performance did you give them this time?

Wicket after wicket after wicket. See, if you are playing, you know that if I play, I will take the wicket. If I don't play, how will I take the wicket? Small things will happen. You do fast bowling, not easy work. That will happen. But along with that...

how you can accept that and still give your 100 percent and win the team, that's the best. And what's your... I think you haven't brought Siraj to the Asia Cup yet, right? In the team, in the squad. Why do you think this happened?

Because he hasn't been brought after such a great performance. I think, what happened before this... There was no Champions Trophy. So, you can't change the winning combination. Or in the T20 World Cup... So, you have to see if the winning combination is a good combination.

In our country, it's very simple. Those who are selected are bad, those who are not selected are good.

No, no, who says that?

This is the reality. Those who are not selected, they talk more, those who are selected are not selected. They don't, they will talk more. The ones who do, they don't. They don't talk. The ones who get selected, they do.

There is so much competition. When a couple of star players are out, everyone questions why this didn't happen. Like, there is a lot of talk about Shreyas Iyer.

Why didn't he get selected?

Who should he replace?

No one knows. Why didn't you put him in? Who should I put in? Who should I put in?

No one knows.

Now, either you tell the ICC that we have so many players that we need to increase the number of players. That we will take a squad of 20 instead of 15. So, it is very difficult to understand all these things. Yes, you are an individual fan. But the selector, the most thank's job is the most thankless job. Because the player he selected is good for him, but the one he didn't select is bad for him.

And if you win, the team played well, if you lose, the selection was useless. So this selector is actually a very thankless job. True. He doesn't get any credit. He doesn't get any credit. He doesn't get anything.

He just abuses.

He just abuses. So that's why people… I was watching it on social media that Shreyas was not selected. Who should he replace? I am not saying that Shreyas is a class player. No doubt.

But he should be replaced. Let's talk about Rishabh. Who is like a wicket-keeper batsman in T20? Who should we replace? KL. He went to such a strong IPL. Very mature player. He has everything. He has experience. He is a am there. Who should I replace?"

So, this is something like...

If KL wasn't there, Shubman wouldn't be there. Then this would work. This would work a lot.

Earlier, we only knew about star players when they used to come to Team India and perform. At least the mass public didn't know. Now because of IPL, everyone knows about the star players who are coming. So more people question, he is hitting this, he is hitting that, he is taking wickets, what should we do? But for the country, you can only play 15 players. Only 15 can be selected. Only 11 can play.

So, who will you take and who not? And before that, when you do well in white ball, what have those players done that you have to bring them out and bring others?

True.

So, it's very important to understand this. It's a tough, tough job. India is ready to play without stopping. Rohit Sharma and Kohli are ready. Cricket doesn't stop for anyone. Yes, fans feel bad, but as an individual, you feel bad.

That I played for so many years, and I won't play. What's next? All those things will happen. But the good thing is that both of them are very smart. They know that this is something that will happen. So I think the sooner you understand, the better.

Plus, they both created their own legacy. Yes, you won, achieved everything, everything is in your life. What else is left? But do you think this is politics in Indian cricket? All of this is outside noise?

Any favoritism and all that?

How will it be? There are numbers, right? If there are numbers, how will there be favoritism? Someone performs, he plays. The one who doesn't perform, he doesn't play. Simple.

But sometimes it happens that

someone doesn't perform and still they give him a chance. See, there are a lot of people who... Like I said, the players who are not playing, the players who are not selected,

that's good.

True.

Tell me about one time, Avi. I really like the athlete mentality. What do you think about that moment? We talked about winning moments. There was a time when you had to play the third over. Paul Knoerne scored. Right? 2013.

Yeah. What was going on in your head after that? I went into depression. For a month. Depression?

Very sad.

I used to cry every single day. I was dating Pratima at that time. I have never been able to share my feelings with my parents. Pratima is not only my wife, she's like my best friend. So, I used to cry when I called her. About what?

That the team lost because of me. But then, we went to South Africa. I didn't play my first two Wundas there. I played my third Wunda. I was in my room during the third Wunda. I was in my shell during the third Wunda. I couldn't move on. So I thought to myself,

either I should play crying or fighting. You have to play. No, what happens in playing crying or fighting is you don't perform well, you get out of the game, and things are over. You play fighting, you get out of the game, that's it.

You fight and play, you perform, you have a better chance of performing well. So I said, either you cry or fight. I didn't understand where that came from. It clicked like that.

I thought I'll fight, no matter what. Then I went. I lost 4 out. 10 overs, 40 runs, 4 wickets. It didn't even rain for the test match. I got 5 out in the first match.

Then in the second touch match.

Before that, things were going on.

I felt a shock for the first time. The day you study... When you study, like every ball... What was going on? In different formats, Especially in T20. Let's say, 30 runs.

They were the most. I was numb at that time. Because it was my first time. Because the series was like that.

There was a new rule at that time, ICC. Overall, only 4 fielders are allowed outside. So I didn't understand how to set the field. The biggest thing was that I had had a surgery in 2012. I didn't have enough game time. I had to prepare and come in a good rhythm. And then I could get ready and go. So what I did was, I got the surgery done.

I did the rehab. And straight away, I was ready. So I realized this later. My surgery was quite big. I started strength training.

Everything happened. But bowling is totally different. No matter how much you train, bowling muscle is bowling muscle. And after the surgery, you need six months to get into the rhythm. And I didn't take that time. What did Mahi bhai say to your aunt? She said with a smile, that he'll stay in the room and come out. After the match, I used to sit in Mahi bhai say to your aunt? He said with a smile, that he will stay in the room and come out.

After the match, he used to sit in Mahi bhai's room. We all used to sit and talk.

I felt him.

Did you ever haunt him? That you might get into a fight again. Or were you scared that you might fall and not play in front of him? See, there are two things. When a person gets beaten up, even in a fight, in a fight,

when he gets beaten up, there are two things. Either he gets scared or he opens up. So I opened up.

What more could happen?

What more could happen? Now I can play openly. So I opened up. Did you ever bowl to Faulkner again? Yes. And you never got scared?

Whenever I had a doubt, I would say, fight it. Don't stop fighting. No matter what. You're not the kind of person who'll play crying. You always play fighting. And the day you stop fighting, the game is over.

Have you ever doubted yourself that maybe I'm not talking like that anymore?

I'm a useless bowler.

No.

Or the world is trolling me. Are you affected by troll holes? Never? Have you ever thought that you should quit? Because you are so good at it.

No, man.

There is no chance. No matter what anyone says. No matter what anyone says. I didn't start this game on someone's request. I won't stop this game on someone's request. I will stop playing this game when I feel like it.

No matter what happens. It doesn't matter. Who is the toughest batsman you have faced? Who do you think is the toughest batsman to play against? To bowl against him. Steve Smith in Test cricket.

That's when you got the reaction.

No, I mean, his technique was a little different. Steve Smith in Test cricket. That's when you got the reaction.

No, I mean, his technique was a bit different. And actually, he made runs with that technique. So, he is great.

And in one-day matches?

In one-day matches, there are so many strong players in white ball.

Who do you think is the toughest?

Who? No. If you count on fingers, the numbers on fingers, there are so many players. Start with Paji, Ricky Bonting, then Matthew Hayden, then Viru Bhai, Gauti Bhai, AB de Villiers, then Rohit, then Aakash.

So, the white ball will never end. There are all of them. The white ball doesn't swing. It swings for two balls and stops after that. Only if you have the skill and the pace, you can play. Who do you think is the young batsman?

You play IPL, so you must have seen a lot of young batsmen. Who do you think is the best young batsman? Yashaswi.

Killer.

You were saying that... How is Yashashvi's background? Same. So that toughness comes automatically. Toughness. When you have that toughness, you understand what you have to lose.

And actually, losing or gaining is nothing. Everyone says what to lose this, what to lose that. There is only one thing, the pressure of your personal performance. The day you removed that, you were open. That day, your focus was shifted from personal performance

to team performance. But the one who didn't come from anywhere, he doesn't have much pressure because he knows that if he leaves, he won't have anything else. The one who didn't come from anywhere, doesn't feel much pressure because he knows that if he goes, he has nothing else. The one who has a background, he feels that he has a lot of things, so he plays openly.

When there was nothing and I came this far, then there is something. So I think that if I have come this far, then there is something. If not't, I wouldn't have come this far.

But when you play with this mentality... that you've come this far, you're strong, you're great, you're doing great... Right?

or the fans say, you're useless, you're done, you can't do it, you're not good enough...

does it affect you? How do you fight with yourself then? I don't read. Why should I read? What people are saying about me. Who is saying what. Which expert is saying what. When I was doing commentary,

my vision was actually very open. So everyone works to run their own house. Everyone has an opinion. So, don't take anyone seriously. Because no one is providing food in your house. You are earning your hard earned money.

You are eating your hard earned food. You are wearing your hard earned clothes. You are driving your hard earned money, you are eating your hard earned food, you are wearing your hard earned clothes and driving your hard earned car. So when there is no difference between you and someone else, why should there be a difference in what they say? What do you tell yourself when you go to bowl first? It's a very important match, the team is stuck. It's over, you're going to score the first ball. The focus is on bowling.

There's a switch, right? As soon as you put your foot on the ground, the switch turns on. And that switch on is called confidence. If you're confident. So what happens is, there's nervousness. There will be butterflies, they are outside.

But as soon as you put your foot down, all that is over, all the focus is on the ball. That area, throw it there with the same strength. So, this is meditation. And after that, what situation comes that even if don't fall even if you're hit? Because sometimes, the time comes that you don't fall. Then what do you think and what do you say?

That's the most important thing. What's the second thing? How to get out? How to give one run? How to bring the other batsman on the crease? You can do all these things with experience.

Has it ever happened that before running, you internally say to yourself, I will break the ball, I have come to break it. Are there any such dialogues? No, I get a lot of teeth grind. The moment I get the ball, I get a lot of teeth crunchiness.

Now it's gone.

I mean, I'm playing like this. I said, the switch is on, that's the button. What was the darkest moment for you? The darkest, most dangerous low point in your cricket career. That's it, 2013. Third run.

Is there any other one? Is there any over-rake that you can put back? Any over-rake, like the one in 2013. What makes it different? Mentality shows different.

What?

Because, like I said, a lot of things connect when I think about it. Like, I didn't play that series before.

Why?

Because it gives me time to get back into my rhythm. Okay. Fair. I was out for almost a year. After a year, you're not bowling, you're not rehabbing, you're not playing such a high competitive match straight away. You have to play the club match slowly, then play first class cricket.

I feel I played a good amount of first class cricket for two months. So, that your rhythm comes back. Then, if you feel you feel ready, you can go. And what would you have done differently? What would you have done differently in the over?

If you hadn't hit the ball.

I would have chosen a different ball. I wouldn't have hit the same three balls. Why did you choose a different ball? If you look back at that time. Because before that, we won the Champions Trophy on the same ball.

After that, we went to West Indies. I was the most successful player there. So, I learned what I had been doing right up till now. But what happened was, after the Champions Trophy in West Indies, there was a break of two months.

I didn't do much even then. So, all those all that in life. I didn't change according to the situation. You couldn't evolve with the game. Earlier, you used to be out of 4 or 5 fielders. You used to be saved on even 1 bad ball.

The margin of a bad ball is very less in this. If you spoil even one ball, there are four fielders out there, overall, it will be 50.

Yeah.

In business and leadership, in entrepreneurship, there is a quote that a lot of people say. What got you here won't get you there. Whatever has worked for you till now, it will be the same in the future. What got you here won't get you there. What worked for you will not work for you.

But as an athlete, it must be so difficult to implement it for you. Because this is what made you. How can I change it now? And what is the point when I change it? Because you don't know.

If we look at it in hindsight, the answer is probably different. But at that time, you don't know.

There are many people who... Everyone told me that I should play the next ball faster before 2018. No one knew how to play the next ball faster. Everyone told me to play the next ball faster. Jason Gillespie played the next ball faster than me

in county cricket. So, if you look at my analysis, from 2018 to 2021, that's the best. And my pitch may have been ahead of 2018. So who will tell me all this?

All this, like you told me, how will the ball in front be fast. So if a youngster is tall, his front ball is not fast. So I know how to make his next ball fast. So if a youngster is tall, his next ball is not fast, I know how to make him fast. Do you plan to open an academy

and train young people? I will.

You will?

You will train young people?

Only fast bowlers. Only fast bowlers? We need more fast bowlers. I mean fast bowlers who are 150 kgs bowlers. I mean, fast bowlers who can play 150. How is it different to play with Pakistan? Because India is an environment of Pakistan.

See, this happened later. In the beginning, we played series together. We went to Pakistan to play. So, they are not bad, actually. They are very good human beings. Very nice, very welcoming.

I used to have a lot of fun with them. They used to feed me very well. In the field, there is rivalry with those who show themselves as arrogant. Like Australia, England. They play with arrogance, so play with them. Yes.

But there's a different pressure from Pakistan. Because India-Pakistan rivalry is very strong. So that's different. You had a fight with Kamran Akmal. Yes, that's normal.

Normal? What was normal? You had a long fine-line.

What was that? He was a long fine-winger. What was he doing in Bangalore? In T20 in Bangalore, there was a no-ball. He played and I told him to bowl a no-ball. He thought I was abusing him. Because there was a lot of noise on the ground.

He asked me why I was abusing him. I told him I wasn't abusing him. Relax and bat. When he abused me, it was a long time ago. I asked him why he was abusing me in Punjabi. I know Punjabi because all my friends are from Punjabi.

I told him to keep an apple in his pocket. If you look at his face carefully, it looks like an apple. I told him to keep an apple in his pocket. If he talks too much. He said something, I was standing on the Nub. Yuvipa said, take out the axe and hit him in the head.

Do one thing, the game will end here. You are crazy. The match would end and he would say, are you crazy?

But it's fun to do this.

No, man.

It's fun later.

Today I think, it's fun.

Later, I think that if I see Kashi in the future, his father was crazy. He used to fight like this and he used to roam around so sweetly with me. I think it's all about passion. No one can explain to anyone what you do and what you don't do. And what does he do the most against Pakistanis?

They must be under pressure.

How can they take pressure from us?

Their own crowd is behind them. Yes, because their crowd is not supporting them. Do you feel different from the other matches? With India-Wagis? For players? Obviously, there will be more pressure.

Because a lot of things get involved in this.

Wajih Makram, Waqar Yunus, Shoaib Akhtar, Afridi. Then there was Saeed Anwar,

Mohin Khan. These were all great players. Very strong. The kind of talent we have, the exposure, the infrastructure,

it's not even close.

Money too.

See, money is...

I mean, if you compare it to an IPL tournament, everyone thinks that if you compare it to any other league, there is no chance.

There is no comparison.

There is no comparison. IPL is actually a proper two-month international cricket, T20.

True. And it's very intense. you can play 12 players, impact play.

There's nothing, it's far away. There's no chance, no IPL. No one? No chance. No matter how much people say.

True.

Did you enjoy playing in the IPL? A lot.

What's the fun? What's the difference in the IPL?

The difference in the IPL is the team atmosphere. As a cricketer, the thing the atmosphere of the dressing room the most.

In IPL?

Anywhere. Your banter, jokes, batting in the test match, players sleeping with their towels on. Then you go and point fingers at someone, throw water at someone, throwing ice at someone. You can't do all these things in normal life. Tell me, what prank did you do? We were playing in Australia, Pujara was playing.

Me and Bhumra were in Melbourne's big dressing room. It was a football dressing room, which is also Australian football. Pujara. Pujara was defending so well that if the ball bounced, it would fall on the wicket. It couldn't go anywhere else. He was defending so well.

Rishabh. Shami was sleeping inside. We were having drinks and we said, don't move from your place until Pujara plays We used to have drinks and we used to go to the washroom We used to take water from there and throw it on the shelf

We used to take ice from the icebox and throw it on Shammi We used to do all these things, we used to his leg and make him fall down from the table. So, we used to do all these things. You'd keep walking. No one would mind? So, Shami would shout, -"Pandit, listen to me."

I'd say, -"Just walk, man. Just sit and sleep." Then Rishabh would say, -"Let it be. I'm sleepy." Have you ever played with Khundas in international cricket and then in IPL? How do you... Like, international players play together in IPL? You have to.

You have to.

I mean, you can't play against anyone just like that. Like, if Khundas is with someone. Like Shikhar said, I don't like a warden. But if you are a teammate, you have to do certain things. But I can't do it like that. Like I can do it with another player. I can only have a professional relationship with him.

I mean, there have a brotherhood? Even if you play in the same team, it doesn't matter in the IPL. It can be difficult. Even if it happens in the third, fourth or fifth year. No, it's simple. If I like someone, I will give my life for him and I will take his life.

If I don't like someone, I will go my own way. Who doesn't like? A lot of people. It will be a controversy. You know who I like. You have mentioned a lot of names in the podcast. Tell me one or two people you don't like.

I don't like them. I won't play.

I don't like the Australians. You have a personal grudge against them? I don't have a personal grudge. I feel they are very arrogant. I don't like arrogant people.

Why are they arrogant?

I don't know. They win too. They are arrogant because they are from somewhere. They have the most World Cup. Yes, that era was different. This era is different. We are no less.

This time too, they took us to the World Cup. It was just one day. I mean, I was there in the finals, in the stadium. It was just one day, the tournament was ruined just for one day. We can't believe that. We played such a great tournament.

Best.

It was just one day. It's okay, we lost the final. If it was the best of three, we would have won. So, we should think about all these things. But he also makes people jealous. You know that...

I saw a photo of his captain. He's sitting with his feet on the trophy. And he's putting up the same photos on purpose. But actually, he's a very good human being Mitchell Marsh Very sensitive, very nice

He's a very good friend There are a lot of people who don't like him I mean, mostly he's fine

Nothing else

And is the current league more of his arrogance? Like Ricky Ponting, Adam Gilchrist, Matthew Hayden, Andrew Simons

Those people

No, those people I can't talk about them because I never had a personal connection. Okay. Vicky Ponting as a coach, I'm telling you, he's very nice, very supportive, very, very positive. Do you have a bowling ritual? Is there a ritual you follow before bowling? I don't even understand all this.

Nothing. Just bowling.

I know that if I want to bowl, I have to hit it so hard that it goes past his chest.

And he visualizes it. He does this and it out from his chest. And he visualizes it. He puts it on his chest, does this and then zzzzzz.

If he wants to do more, he has to rip his shoe. So I get a little aggressive. If he wants to do a bouncer, he has to take off his helmet. So I get a little aggressive. What else happens? I look at my area.

Till the last moment. I look at it as till the last moment. I look at it as late as possible. I started the run-up, then I look at the wicket when I am about to jump. I look at my area till the ball is not delivered. Till the end?

Till the end. And I try to hit hard.

Nice. Okay.

And in all, in your career, do you feel satisfied? That you have ever been underachieved or overachieved? You can never be overachieved in life. So do you feel underachieved? No.

Never?

Like you could have done a few more things? Yes, that will always be there.

What?

I mean, I had a few things. I had a goal, which I couldn't achieve. What was it? That I should have the most wickets in Test cricket. Does it seem bad? No. So, the goal bad about it? No.

You didn't achieve the goal? Nothing. Breaking the life is over. Life has just started.

Yes.

Okay. I couldn't do it or I couldn't do it. It's a different thing. But I couldn't do it because I made it too big. What do you mean? I mean, a dream is a good thing. But the way we play on the wickets, it's very difficult to score a goal there.

Why?

Because we play on a lot of turning tracks. So, you don't get bowling. So, this is the reason. But don't you feel bad? Do you ever think that if you had played a little more, I would have scored. I would have done something else. No?

Nothing.

Okay, you missed it. It's okay. Any other goal was left unscored? No.

Just one?

I always considered Test cricket as my priority. You played 105 as well. Yes, I mean... It's just a number for me.

It's a big number.

As a bowler, it's a big number. But whenever I... Everyone says that there are so many bowlers in India who have played 100 Test matches. But for me, it's always a number. Or actually, it's a number.

It doesn't matter.

But you enjoyed playing for I played. Yes. Because later I realized that you're not playing for numbers, but for memories. Now I've realized it. Yes, but whenever you've realized it, it's like, we won the first Australian series. We've been playing for so many years in Australia. But when did we win the first series? In 2018.

You're so lucky to be a part of that. In 2015, we won the Sri Lanka Cup after a year. We won the 2015 Sri Lanka Cup after a year. We won the Champions Trophy. We were the number one team in the ICC. I played for the Test Cricket team 2-3 times. You understand all this when you sit down. If someone says, you built this house, you bought this car, you bought that.

But if someone says, what is the real thing, then the baggy blue cap, which you don't even wash, it's torn, but you still wear those short dress pants. That's the real hard work. That's the real achievement. True.

Which one is your favorite wicket of life? If you have to choose one. I am sure you can't choose. But you have to choose one. I took my favorite wicket. I enjoyed it. I won't say one.

In 2018... Because actually, I have had many moments in my life. But... In 2018, when we won the series, every wicket was important.

Tell me one wicket that you liked the most.

Do you have an exact story or memory of it? I'll tell you about Travis Hyde. I outed him in the first test match against Bouncer. They were chasing. And... He was playing, batting properly.

He was running. I mean, he was running the game. So, the end of the day's play happened. So, me and Bharat Arun, he was our bowling coach. So, we were sitting and talking. He used to call me Kardi. Kardi means there's a story behind it. He used to call me Kardi.

Kardi?

Kardi. Okay. In South India. So, he asked me, Kardi, whatardi? Kardi. Okay. In South India. Okay. So he asked me, Kardi, what do you think about Travis Hyde?

So I said, brother, I will put him in the lead for the first two overs. He said, then? I said, then I will hit the fifth or fourth ball of the third over and bouncer will come out when it settles. He'll think that he's putting it forward and it'll be exactly the same.

Got stuck in this.

Nice. And the 4th and 5th ball will be out. I hit the bouncer, it got together. It happened like this, it hit here and straight here.

Nice.

So that you remember exactly.

And why did you say Kardi? Kardi means there was a story in South India about a bear. Bear? Yes. So I don't know, I don't remember that story. So they used to say Kardi, what do you think? Perfect. Here's the last question.

Okay. And I want you to think and give me an answer. Everyone tells a story to themselves for longest time to win in life or maybe to carry forward something. So what's a lie about yourself that you have told yourself so many times that has become your personality now? I have no idea, I would say I have a split personality.

Split personality. Explain. The way I am grounded, everyone thinks I am aggressive and angry. Actually, I am totally opposite. Not at all in reality, not at all. I love to have fun, laugh, enjoy, spend time with family and friends. But you have done so much on the ground that you have become the personality of the ground.

You are not outside.

Perfect.

Well, thank you so much sir. Thank you so much for giving me so much time. It was fun talking to you. It's an honor to talk to you. Thank you very much. It was fun talking to you. I used to only see reactions and enjoy. Today I got to see a very calm, nice, easy personality.

I also had the same thing that Ishan Sharma is that.

Yes, I was about to say that there is nothing like that with me. She becomes a personality and I feel that she is very important. Especially as a sports person.

That aggression.

That aggression. Aggression plus Jigra. If you have that, then only you can survive for a longer time or dominate for a longer time in international cricket.

True.

You tell me, why do you live so far? Is this middle of the city or we are living outside?

Where are you living?

We are living in the airport.

You have to walk from the airport.

It took us 45 minutes to reach here. No, it took us 45-50 minutes. No, it took us 45-50 minutes. We are staying outside. Where are you staying? We are staying at the airport. But you have to fly from the airport. It took us 45 minutes to reach there.

45-50 minutes.

No man! Which way did you come from, Nish Bihar? 45-50 minutes from the airport.

From the airport?

Yes.

See, he is big up for Zepter.

Bro, he is a big up for Zepter. I'll do it. So which guests do you want to see on our podcast? So that we can bring them and ask them the questions that you want. And number 3, do share this episode with a person whose life will be positively changed.

Because one conversation is enough to change someone's life. Because one conversation is enough to change someone's life. I'll see you next time, until then, keep figuring out. 🎵