Israel, Karim Khan & The ICC: IT'S WORSE Than You Think | Francesca Albanese

This is the beginning of the end of the rule of law system.This is extremely scary.There has been a huge pressure from Israel to remove Karim Khan.This is just the beginning of the dismantlement of the International Criminal Court.There were over a dozen U .S.

Congress people who wrote a threatening letter in the most mafia -sounding style and tone.There would be consequences, they said.Karim Khan, we will come after your team and your family.This is the language that is used by mafia people.I mean, the US is behaving like the emissary of Israel.The message to the ICC was, don't touch.

Don't touch Israel, don't touch the US, don't touch us.I'm cut off from the financial system, I cannot receive payments, I cannot make payments, I cannot have my earnings.Any US person who has any transactional dealing with me faces up to 20 years in jail and a fine of 1 million dollars.By the way, I'm the mother of a US citizen, so the situation for us, it's very personal.I was sanctioned by the United States, not because I was documenting genocide, no, because I recommended the court to open investigations into...

Karim Khan, the British Chief Prosecutor of the International Criminal Court, has been removed from his post following allegations of sexual misconduct by two women.The court's 125 -member Assembly of State parties voted overwhelmingly to remove him, despite the fact that an earlier internal investigation concluded the evidentiary threshold had not been reached.In 2024, under Khan's leadership, the ICC issued arrest warrants against Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Defence Minister Yoav Galant.Netanyahu welcomed the decision to remove Khan, saying, I spoke with US Secretary of State Marco Rubio last night.and he reiterated to me the US intention to act firmly against this organisation, which endangers justice in the world and also threatens the rights of democratic sovereign states.I spoke to Francesca Albanese, the UN Special Rapporteur on the Occupied Palestinian Territories, about Khan's removal, her own sanctioning by the US, and the British government's persecution of Direct Action Group Palestine action.

Francesca Albanese, thank you very much for joining us.What do you think of the removal of Karim Khan as the chief prosecutor of the International Criminal Court?

Look, there are two, there are many things.For me, One issue which is extremely serious is the allegation of sexual misconduct, which must be thoroughly investigated.There is no question about that.There has been a judicial panel already named, appointed for that, and it concluded that having listened to the parties, the accuser and the chief prosecutor, the panel couldn't make a determination.This is one thing.We can discuss that the sexual misconduct allegations must be further investigated because it's absolutely appalling.

This is one.What I would like to focus on is the exceptional procedures that have been taken for the ICC prosecutor.The fact that the political body, the Assembly of State Parties, pushed for a removal despite the fact that Objectively, it might have been the ICC prosecutor's decision to step down.I do believe that anyone who has that position is to beabove suspicion.So it could have been his own decision.

And this is something that Member States could have been engaged with in discussions with the prosecutor.However, what we have seen are two things.On the one hand, a fast track procedure that has not ensured due process to remove Karim Khan.And on the other side, there has been a trial, a show trial.So something that has happened not in a court of law or court of law resembling space, but on CNN, on social media.And so this is not, this is sensationalism.

This is not how such a sensitive case is dealt with.And so there has been an intoxicating environment around this issue.The other part that I find extremely, extremely suspicious is the cheering on...I mean, Israel is not the only country who has leaders who are wanted by the ICC.Russia is in the same situation, and we have not seen...Putin and his establishment cheering for the removal of Karim Khan, who's the same prosecutor who prompted the arrest warrants for him, for Vladimir Putin.

There's been such a cheering environment in Israel by the ICC wanted prime minister and others, the usual minions,that, you know, when I see this and this Geneva based NGO on watch that that starts the cheerleading mode, I understand that there has been a huge pressure from from Israel, because this is, you know, this is the little barking dog that that alerts you that something something bigger is happening.And again, there are people who comment on Israeli ministers and having established task force and put pressure so that the prosecutor could be removed.And now the risk is for the ICC to be fully under threat.This is just the beginning of the dismantlement of the court.So this is why I really want to keep the two things separate.

On the one hand, there are the sexual misconduct allegations that are very serious and should be dealt with properly and away from public eye.And because this is a sensitive issue, it's disrespectful for the victim or alleged victim and for the accused to have this this really toxic publicity.But the fact that there are claims that Israel has been intervening or interfering are, I mean, the claims are overwhelming.And this is extremely scary.So the politicisation of it, in order to have the Palestine situation removed from the care of the ICC, is worrisome.

The reaction at the weekend of Israel and the United States to Karim Khan's removal makes quite clear their own position and their own attitude to this.The US State Department described the ICC as corrupt and worthless.Now, how do we move forward from here?Because, of course, the arrest warrants against Gallant and Netanyahu were issued by the ICC.They weren't issued in Kareem Khan's name.They're not particularly bound up with Kareem Khan personally in any way.

Do you have confidence in the ICC's capacity now to move forward and continue with those cases against those two men?

It's hard to say.Of course, I have confidence because the court is not just the prosecutor, the court is not just the judges.There are hundreds of lawyers, judges, personnel, legal personnel, and others working for the court.There is a register.There are extremely competent individuals.And there are also member states.

I know that for a fact.There are member states who are doing the utmost to defend the International Criminal Court, cognizant of all the effort that was put over decades in order to have this justice system that is independent, that is above states.And I've seen this myself, Richard.I was sanctioned by the United States Not because I was documenting genocide, not because I was speaking of the suffering of the Palestinians and the crimes of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu or Minister Smotryk or Ben Gvir.No, because I reminded, I recommended the court to open investigations into the private sector, because even if you come from the private sector, you could be investigated and prosecuted for war crimes, crimes against humanity, and possibly genocide.When I made this recommendation, when I went after the private sector, when I recommended the ICC to do its job, including into the, toward these actors, this is when I was sanctioned.

So there is a fear, there is a fear that international justice, particularly international criminal justice works.This is why there has been this violent attempt against the court, which didn't start.This is the thing which didn't start two years ago or last year.There was already an Envision Act and Hague Envision Act that was passed by the US administration years ago when at the horizon, the possibility that the ICC opens investigations over the crimes of US troops in Afghanistan on Iraq.And therefore, then there has been a continuous mistrust toward the ICC as a whole, apart from when it was investigating Russia and Russian leaders' crimes.but or Myanmar or leaders in the global south.

So this has been mounting, this is the context.But of course, of course, the attack has escalated dramatically after the beginning of the genocide.And especially when it was clear that Karim Khan might request the court to issue arrest warrants toward people involved in crimes in the in Gaza.And by the way, Kerim Khan requested arrest words for Yahya Sinwar and other two Hamas leaders.who were subsequently killed by Israel.It's not that it has been a partial formal justice.

And I find that it has been extremely conservative because Ben -Gavir Ez -Motrik should have already been investigated and reached by an arrest warrants.The evidence is overwhelming.for war crimes, crimes against humanity, and possibly genocide attributable to these two men.But of course, there is fear that international justice might work.And this is why it's important to go after judges, prosecutors.In April 2024, there were over a dozen U .

S.Congress people who wrote a threatening letter in the most intimidating and mafia -sounding style and tone to Karim Khan, warning him not to continue the investigation over Israel.There would be consequences, they said.We know you.We will come after you.We will come after your team and your family.

This is why this is when I use the word mafia for the first time in my life as a special rapporteur toward this overall situation, because this is the language that is used by mafia people, normally not by, shouldn't be used by institutional representatives, and that has been a descent into the abyss ever since.

So yes, yes, I'm very worried.You mentioned the sanctions that have been brought against yourself.What does that actually mean in practice for your life?

I'm cut off from the financial system, which means that I cannot receive payments.I cannot make payments.I cannot have my earnings.I cannot access even a health insurance.And I live abroad.So this is compulsory.

And also, any US person who has any transaction.dealing with me faces up to 20 years in jail and a fine of 1 million dollars.So imagine the eagerness of US people wanting to engage with me.By the way, I'm the mother of a US citizen.citizen.So the situation for us, it's very personal.

The impact is tangible.I have assets in the US.This is where I gave birth to my child, where I used to live and I was planning to return in a few years.It's serious.

And you're not the only person this has been done to.There are 11 officials at the International Criminal Court, including Karim Khan, his two deputies, who are also under sanctions like this.

Yes, absolutely.This is why I'm saying this is an attack that the The attack against the ICC has been very articulated and the US has, I mean, the US is behaving like the emissary of Israel, but I don't think that this is right.This is the way it's perceived.This is, there is one predatory elite that is rooted primarily in the U .S.and Israel, but has emissaries everywhere, because there are many enemies of the ICC today.

And there has been this huge assault against the ICC on the question of Palestine.So the message to the ICC was don't touch, don't touch us, don't touch Israel, don't touch the US and our close allies.

This general assault on the rule of law and on human rights, do you see the British government's assault on Palestine action as part of that?

In an actual and complexities anddistinctions, specificities aside, yes, absolutely.The UK under Starmer, and I hope things will be different now, but who knows, has clearly followed the path of embracing repression in order to silence the legitimate calls from hundreds of thousands of responsible UK citizens to stop complicity with the genocide.The situation remains critical in the sense the precedent has been set.The persecution, the persecution of human rights defenders, including those at Palestine, action is to be addressed firmly.Otherwise, it is not that it will remain as a stain.

in the UK history.It's a new reality where people using their freedom of expression, their freedom of assembly can be blocked, sanctioned, punished simply for doing what it's necessary to do, which in this case is to stop a genocide.And by the way, I don't question the damage has been caused to an arms factory, which is producing weapons that are used to kill children, to harm civilians in the Gaza Strip.Damage can be assessed in a civil court, but this is not terrorism.And the fact that the UK is going after journalists and ordinary civilians for terrorism, while in fact, in fact, in another world, we would say that we have seen UK leaders shaking hands people who commit an authorized act of terrorism among them.Israeli leadership, that is disconcerting and must be investigated and possibly prosecuted.

How concerned are you by the fact that British courts have begun the practice of when people are convicted for criminal damage at Elbit factories and so on, they are then sentenced for terrorism?

This is a blow in the face of the rule of law system.I trust, really, I trust UK scholars, UK lawyers, and judges and prosecutors, including retired ones.This is something that questions the effectiveness of the rule of law system, its functioning, its health, and it might also be seen as an interference in the independence of the justice system.This is extremely scary, extremely scary, and it risks to collapse on our head.So I really I mean, I've lived in the UK.I'm I'm I'm indebted to the UK legal scholarship for what I've learned myself from it.

And I really implore everyone to scrutinize and stand against this.because I do believe that this kind of vulnerabilities then are turned into a pandemic.And this is the beginning of the end of the rule of law system if we do not promptly intervene.Francesca Almenessi, thank you very much for joining us.Thank you.

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