It 'wasn't appropriate' to share post criticising police response to Golders Green, Polanski says

You recently said that there needs to be a conversation about whether there's a perception of unsafety or actual unsafety in Jewish communities.After this week, do you think this is still a matter for debate?

Well, the full quote is that I said both are unacceptable.And antisemitism and Jewish safety is not some abstract concept for me.In fact, in the last six weeks alone, Two people have actually been arrested in relation to anti -Semitic actions towards me.And yesterday, the Times newspaper published a vile anti -Semitic cartoon, which we've asked them to apologize for.Now, I don't believe that we make Jewish safety any better by escalating tensions.I think it's really important we recognize how scary it is at the moment for so many communities.

We saw three people stabbed this week on Wednesday, one Muslim man and two Jewish men.And I think it's important that we all work as leaders to de -escalate tensions, to bring communities together, recognise the work of interfaith groups and also non -faith groups as well.

That is a nicely political answer but it's not the answer to the question I asked you.You said that there needs to be a conversation about whether there is a perception of unsafety or actual unsafety in Jewish communities.Let me ask you again.Do you still think that is a matter for debate?As I say...Is it worth...

Is it a matter for a conversation or do you accept that actually there's not a perception, there is actual unsafety?

Well, I think the conversation is rolling out right now.I definitely think there's unsafety for Jewish people and I never said there wasn't.I said both were unacceptable.

When I talk...No, no.What you said is there needs to be a conversation.I looked at your words.Right.Which suggests that you think that there's a choice, and that perhaps some people might be thinking that there's a problem, but there isn't really a problem.

So you're telling me this morning, that's not in question.You accept that there is actual unsafety, and that's what's going to be tackled.

What I said was spot on.There are times when Jewish people, including myself, are actively unsafe.That's clearly very true and it's always been true.There's also times where we hear marches, Palestinian marches, that I as a Jewish person walk on, where Jewish people say that makes them feel unsafe.unsafe.Now I don't think that actually makes them unsafe clearly because I'm a Jewish person who is on that march.

So I think it's about having a conversation about how do we ensure that Jewish people are safe and Jewish people feel safe at times when they may perceive themselves to be unsafe.Oh, that's interesting.

So these marches where Many Jewish people, frankly most Jewish people that you or I would meet, say that they feel it makes them unsafe.Let me put a thought experiment to you.Imagine you are talking to Shlomi Rand or Norman Scheindler, two men who were stabbed in Golders Green.How do you persuade them that what happened to them was somehow kind of in their imaginations?I mean, you've got to be clear about this.You can't have it both ways.

Either there is something real here, or you're saying that some Jewish people are not making it up, but they're imagining something that is real that isn't real.

Trevor, that's an outrageous distortion of what I just said.No, I'm kind of repeating what you've just said, what you said earlier in the week, and what you've just said to me, actually.If people are stabbed, then that is clearly not true.Unsafe it's it's beyond unsafe.It's outrageous and it's horrific the attack that happened We should not I must not pit people facing physical violence against people's freedom of speech and ability to march in Relation to a genocide in Palestine the person who is conflating anti -semitism Israeli government is Benjamin Netanyahu No, no, let's not get onto that.

I asked you about the feelings of the Jewish communityin this country.Of which I'm one of them.Almost nothing to do with what you've just started to go on to.And you seem still unsure whether you believe Jews in Britain are unsafe or whether you think actually they are.it's not as bad as some people are making it out.

That's not what I said at all and that's not what I said last week.I said there are people who are unsafe, Jewish people, and that's clearly true.There are also people who feel like the marches are hate marches.I'm saying as a Jewish person who marches with many Jewish people against the occupation in Palestine, when people say that makes them feel unsafe, that's a distortion of what the march is.

Okay, so you would reject the McPherson inquiry, Stephen Lawrence inquiry, definition of a hate crime as a crime, an incident where either the victim or anybody else who happens to be there perceives it to be a crime motivated by hatred because there are thousands and thousands of Jews in this city, London, who think that those marches that you're saying you don't feel intimidated by, they think these are hate marches.So you're saying But the McPherson inquiry, the McPherson definition, which is what the government stands behind and which police operate today, that's wrong.

Well, as I repeat, as a Jewish person, I march with many Jewish people on those marches.Now, there are already laws to deal with.But you're not all Jews.I'm just saying that currently, the policy is...But why is my Jewish identity being erased from this conversation?

No, I'm not erasing it.There are so many people on those marches.No, no, no, don't try that one on me.My point is that currently, The policy is that if somebody believes that an incident is a hate crime, whether they are a victim or not, it is recorded as such by the police.It is regarded as such by the courts.What you are saying is because you don't think it's a hate crime, it shouldn't be.

If hate crimes are being committed on the marches, then those should be dealt with, and there's already laws for those.As I said, on those marches, I've not seen hate crimes, and I think it's an outrageous slur on many, many people who are marching for peace.The world is actually upside down.And others who think it is.What's wrong with that?Those are not hate marches.

It's in their minds.Well, I think if they've not seen evidence of them being hate marchers, then I think, yes, that is a perception issue.

OK, so you then want to erase their belief that they are... subject to hate.Their perception is also their reality.

Well, I think we need to deal in evidence and data.So where there has been anti -Semitism, there's laws to deal with that, and that should be dealt with.If it's a general perception that the hate marches, then that's the world upside down.These are peace marches that are marching to, say, end the occupation.OK.

We could have a philosophical discussion about that, but clearly you don't take the view.But I think the point is...Many people, many people, who experience these marches take.This isn't philosophical for me. I was at a rally in Hastings a few days ago.No, you keep on talking about your experience.

I'm trying to put to you the experience of many other people.

Actually, rather many, the majority of Jews in this city.My experience as a Jewish person was someone did a Nazi salute in my direction this week.This is not an abstract philosophical conversation for me. I think it's important we deal with actual antisemitism.and we don't pit that against pro -Palestinian sentiment, that doesn't make Jewish people any safer.

You retweeted this message about the behaviour of a group of Metropolitan Police officers when they had probably just saved several lives, including, by the way, the life of Esa Salomon, who has since been arrested and charged with attempted murder, because the armed police were on the way, and had he not been subdued, who knows what would have happened.What on earth was going on?your head when you retweeted that?I know you've apologised, but how did you get to that place?

I think you can both recognise the bravery of officers who run towards incidents that most of us, including myself, would certainly want to run away from, and find the appropriate forum to say that no -one especially the police, should be above scrutiny.The reason why I've apologised is I accept that wasn't the appropriate forum.As a member of the London Assembly, a place I know you know well, the Police and Crime Committee would be an appropriate place, or indeed a meeting with the Commissioner, which I'm pleased I've reached out and he's now agreed to.I do also think, by the way, open letters aren't an appropriate way to do politics either in a local election, but I accept all of that and I'll be having that conversation with the Commissioner.

But you chose X to do this, and I'm just curious, What prompted you to look at this message and to repost it, repost it?You can say you didn't endorse it and so on, but you made a choice to do this.I'm just curious, what thought process led you to do that?

Well, the first thing I did was recognise that this was a horrific crime and I showed solidarity to the victims and their families.I then thanked the emergency responders for the brave work they did.I found it all very traumatic, especially as a Jewish person.And I also found the video that was circulating online traumatic, too.I accept, though, that conversation about that video needs to be had with the commissioner rather than on X. You made a mistake, because you were traumatised, then?Well, you generally apologise when you make mistakes for putting that in the wrong forum.

It should be something I take directly to the commissioner, and I accept that.

Were you trying to reframe this as a case of police brutality so we didn't have the debate that is going to have to take place about this being a straightforward case of anti -Semitism with no political defence to it?No.It's still very hard, then, to understand why you felt you had to intervene with some random tweet.Well, the commissioner was...Let me just add one thing.It's hard to understand it in any other way, given that your own party has some trouble with anti -Semitism.

Two of your candidates have been arrested this week.Is it the case that you basically wanted this not to be about anti -Semitism but let's make it about the police?

I've already said no.It's also important to point out that a Muslim man was stabbed as well as two Jewish men and that seems to have not been in the news coverage.The Commissioner as well in this very studio accepted that this was an unusual use of police force within this incident.Now I think there's a conversation that he's had about...I don't think he did accept it was an unusual use.He said it was unusual, that was what he said in the interview.

He said the incident was unusual but I don't think it was an unusual use of force in the context.He said the response was unusual and that's the conversation I want to have with the Commissioner.

I've said that X isn't the appropriate form.I don't think the meteor is the appropriate form either.

You've raised the issue of Muslims.Let me put this to you.Three quarters of the terrorist threats we know come from Islamists, according to the Security Service.Fears Mughal, the founder of Talmama, which is the government -backed group monitoring hate against Muslims, says in the papers this morning, in a national paper this morning, that Politicians haven't spoken, including the Prime Minister, about what he calls the elephant in the room that has Muslim antisemitism written across it.He goes on to say that while the vast majority of Muslims are an asset to our country, unless we have a root and branch rejection of Muslim antisemitism, calls for commiserations with British Jews are futile.Do you agree?

think it's the opposite of what we should be doing.I think blaming an entire community based on what one person did.

He's not blaming an entire community.He is referring to Muslim antisemitism, Islamism, as other people call it.And he says, unless we recognise that, calls for commiserations with British Jews are futile.He's not accusing a whole community.Do you agree with him?

I think what we need to do right now is de -escalate tensions.I think we need interfaith work.I think we need to bring people together.That sounds like the opposite of that.

Former head of the Equality and Human Rights Commission wrote yesterday the following.When members of the Muslim community commit violence against Jewish people for simply being Jewish, there are no mosque vigils or prayers, no loud hailers condemning perpetrators.To their shame and mine, Muslims in Britain appear entirely alienated from the plight of Jews when attacked.This silence speaks volumes." Do you understand her anger?She is a Muslim.

I think those are inflammatory comments.I think some of the work that I'm proudest of when I see in London is when imams and rabbis stand together side by side and say that attack on one is an attack on all, and together Jewish and Muslim people will stand in solidarity.I think that's the sort of leadership that we need right now, people standing up and working together in unity, not reaping further division.

So the points of view of two prominent Muslims, from your point of view, are just inflammatory because What, they're not your kind of Muslim?

They can be as prominent as they want.I can still disagree with them.

No, but you seem to be saying that somehow their views are not legitimate.

I think their views are wrong.And you're not engaging with them at all.That's different to not legitimate.What I'm saying is that I think people in positions of power and people with responsibility right now have a responsibility to bring people together.That is not language that I think sounds like bringing people together.Even if it doesn't, even if it involves trying

to tell the truth, what they see as the truth?I think it's really important to tell the truth.And the truth right now is we need interfaith work.We need to make sure that we're bringing people together.We need investment in our communities, both faith and non -faith communities.I think that's what's important right now, rather than...

I know you rejected earlier on when I said blaming an entire community for one person's actions is not what those words are saying, but that's very much what I'm hearing.

Well, we're going to have another conversation about perception and reality.They go out of their way specifically to say that they don't accuse all Muslims, and how could they?They are Muslims themselves.But I just wonder whether this is a political situation for you in which you can't recognise what they say because you're trying to appeal to that community.

I mean, again, I think it's an outrageous slur.Anti -Semitism is unacceptable in the same way that Islamophobia is unacceptable.I don't think we challenge anti -Semitism or Islamophobia or any form of racism by pitting communities against each other.I think we challenge those things by investing in our communities and bringing people together.

All right.You are fighting elections this week.Smartmoney says that you're going to do very well as a party.Are you going to instruct your councillors to reject coalition or cooperation with other parties, specifically reform.

Well, the first thing to say is I'm not interested in smart money.I'm interested in votes.So on Thursday, every single person who wants green councillors with only two vested interests to protect people and protect the planet should go out there and vote green.We're facing a toxic combination right now of high bills and low wages.We need to end rip -off Britain.And one of the ways we do that is by electing more green councillors.

Now, when those councillors are elected, they are there to serve the communities.They're not there to serve me or the Green Party.So I won't be telling anyone who they need to go into coalition with or not go into coalition with.That's ultimately a matter between the councillors and their local community.I would be very surprised, though, and I would be bothered to see anyone going into coalition with reform.And I don't expect to see that happening.

Oh, and you'd be bothered because?

I think reform offer a politics that's divisive.I think that it's toxic.And I think it's the opposite of everything that the Green Party represents.And I can't imagine any councillor or council wanting to work with the Reform Party.At the same time, it's an important principle that we are not a top -down party.It's up to those councils to make their decisions.

But as I say, I can't imagine any scenario where you'd see the Green Party and reform working together.

Let's talk a little bit, if we may, before we end, about what kind of party you are.People used to think of the Green Party as conservationists and mocked Greens for being, you know, knit your own yoghurt and so on.Nobody's going to say that these days.Still like to knit some yoghurt.OK, fair enough.I'll come round for that.

What's the first thing you're going to ask your councillors to do on Monday?Are you going to turn to the traditional Green issues?Are you going to, for example, ask them to ensure they're not spending any money on anything that would benefit Israel?

Well, the first thing to do is make sure we're protecting people's public services.As I said, people are really struggling right now.As Hannah Spencer, the MP for Gorton and Denton, where we took on the billionaire donors and the Green Party won, the day she won she said, working hard used to get you something.And now it doesn't get you the holiday, it doesn't get you what you feel like you deserve.And I think it's so important that Green councillors on day one are making sure they're protecting people's public services.actually representing the communities and changing politics so people can believe and trust again.

Far too many people feel like politicians are so distant from them, as opposed to out there batting for them every single day.

That's so interesting, because in that answer, no reference to hedgerows, small animals,even sewage in the water.Well, they're all part of the public services then.Has the Greens become more Corbynista now than conservationist?

Well, inequality affects everything.And ultimately, the climate crisis is a crisis of inequality, because corporations who destroy our environment are also destroying our democracy and our communities too.And so the Green Party is ultimately there to make sure that we protect our planet and our environment.and it's there to make sure we tackle inequality.The 50 wealthiest families in this country owe more wealth than 34 million people.That's unsustainable.

The government say there's no money left.There's plenty of money.It needs to be in our communities, both for the environment and for the people we seek to serve.