"It's NOT Authentic!" Meghan Markle Celebrates 45th Birthday + Remembering Princess Diana

I think she's the biggest changemaker.

I thought we were looking at a really bright, modern future for the royal family.

It should have been so different.

Yeah.

They all messed it up.She's still changing the royal family, I think.If she was still alive today, she wouldn't have let Megxit happen or any of that.The idea that Meghan is the first person to have negative headlines on joining that firm is obviously nonsense.It'll never go back to the way it was.

We know who the star of the Commonwealth Games was.It wasn't an athlete.It's Prince Louis.

Louis in that bucket hat, grinning, has probably done more for the popularity of the monarchy than every other royal engagement this year.

There is one tradition which he will not be swayed from, and that is migrating to Scotland every summer.We're making him sound like a goose, aren't we?

I think it really works for Charles and Camilla.Like, he goes north to have some solitude in Balmoral.She goes south to be social in Greece.

This week on The Royal's Uncensored, Meghan Markle turns 45 with a paper tiara from the supermarket.Is it too mean of me to say it's as close as she's going to get to a crown?Oh, I said it, didn't I?And because Meghan shares her birthday with the late Queen Mother, we'll ask what our most formidable royal matriarch would make of the modern monarchy.Plus, a new heir to the throne, 50th in line to be precise, as Princess Eugenie welcomes her third child.But why, oh why, is Andrew still seven places ahead in that line of succession?

Also coming up, outstanding, irritable, and universally respected.A fascinating glimpse of the teenage Prince Philip as the future Duke's school reports are unearthed for the first time.And the Royals are off on their summer travels.But why are the king and queen apart?I'm Katie Nicholl.And I'm Jo Elvin.

And alongside us, as ever, is co -host and resident royal butler, the outstanding, the irritable, and the universally respected Grant Harrold.We'll be joined later on in the show by Dan Wakeford.But first, here in the studio, Channel 5's royal correspondent Simon Vigar is here.He's the author of the new book, The Four Wives of Windsor.And we are delighted to have you.Thank you for being here.

Thanks very much for having me.Yes.Thank you.

We're going to kick off the show talking about your book.Yeah, we've got the book.It's a lovely cover, Simon.Thank you.And I think sort of, you know, what strikes me so much about this is, you know, I might say that the power of the crown historically has rested in women.And you look at Diana and the changemaker that she was.

You look at Camilla and the extraordinary metamorphosis that she's had.Catherine, our future queen.And of course, you've got Meghan in there as well.The way you said that, and Megan, she made the cover.And by the way, Megan's in there too.Can we kick off a bit?

Let's just talk about Diana, first of all, because the anniversary of her death is coming up.She is arguably the greatest change maker, she broke the mould.A hard subject to tackle in that she has been so written about.Firstly, I suppose, was there anything that you discovered that perhaps surprised you?Did you unearth anything?How easy was it to get people to talk?

Yeah, well, it's difficult to get people to talk on the record, as you know, but a lot of people want to be anonymous.Yeah, I think she's the biggest changemaker.And I think they will all change the British monarchy in their own way, including Meghan, but we can come to that.Diana, obviously, she made the British monarchy more relatable in the way she had a massive role in raising William and Harry, giving them some glimpses of normality or whatever, as close to normality as they can get.Even if it was just going down Kensington High Street down to the record shop or the fast food takeaway, but also just their relationships with people, you know, calling people by their first names and not calling people by their surnames.And she's still changing the royal family, I think.

She changed how they grieve, how we grieve.1997, that horrible week where the country definitely changed.And her impact on William and Harry is clear for all to see.By the way, if she was still alive today, she wouldn't have let Megxit happen or any of that.She would have banged their heads together.

What do you think she would make of the situation between Harry and William and that rift?

Well, she'd be distraught.And I just don't think it would happen if she was still alive, but that's a great what -if, isn't it?

It's a difficult game to play, isn't it, with all of that?And I don't love that speculation, but I suspect that Harry wouldn't have been in the vulnerable place he was when he met Meghan had she... being alive, he would have had a completely different childhood.So who knows?

Yeah.Now, obviously, it affected both of them a huge amount.And Harry has been much more public about how it's affected him.But Diana, I mean, I think it's a generational thing.I'm biased.I would say Diana, of the four, is the biggest changemaker.

But they will all change it in their different ways.

And what about Queen Camilla?I mean, her metamorphosis from reviled mistress, which she once was, to not even Queen consort, but Queen, has been extraordinary.

Oh, it's incredible.And it's just by being herself, really.Slowly, slowly, time is a great healer.As you say, Charles and Camilla were reviled 30 years ago.And now, when you look at the opinion polls, Camilla's sort of in the middle of the table.Which, by the way, she's completely, I'm told, she's completely fine with that.

She never expects to be near the top.She completely gets there are some people who will never forgive her.But I think a lot of people have, you know, don't blame her as much now.Attitudes have softened.And, you know, she's crucial to the British monarchy right now.Somebody said to me, you know, she brought the fun back.

because for Prince Charles for a long time, he was pretty lonely doing what he was doing.

Might we look back at it and see it as the greatest royal love story?certainly in recent times?

Yeah, well, it goes back to the early 70s.I mean, it goes back more than 50 years.And people have a go at Charles for dithering and not proposing to her when he could have, should have.I think that's unfair.He was in his early 20s.He was never going to get married then.

I get people saying that a lot, that it's a shame that he didn't marry Camilla initially.But then, as we all know, we wouldn't have wine, we wouldn't have Catherine, we wouldn't have the generation we've got now.So, you know, with fate, I think it's played its hand perfectly.Even though it's sad, the story, I think it's really important the way history's played out.

Yeah.I mean, he put a lot of pressure on himself to get married in his early 30s, and he married a 19 -year -old girl who he barely knew, and we know how that played out.But, yeah, it's a what -if, isn't it?I mean, if they had...If Charles and Camilla had got together, in the early 70s, then you don't get William and you don't get Harry.Yeah.

One of the things that you explore in the themes in the book is the relationship between the Queen and the Princess of Wales, which I'm really interested in.Tell us a little bit about what you found out, perhaps what surprised you about that relationship.

The late Queen Elizabeth?

No, between Queen Camilla and Catherine.

Yes, well, I mean, they have, behind the scenes, definitely played a role in getting William and Charles closer.There was a period where they weren't so close.I think everything that's happened with funerals and also Megxit, that has brought them closer together, and certainly with Andrew Mountbatten -Windsor as well.But, you know, they are definitely mediators behind the scenes.It's not a big public showy thing.What I think is, you know, they're a family.

They're a royal family.We all have our own families.We all have our own family issues which are played out in private and we sort them out.This lot have to do it in public every day on front pages.It's really hard.

It's fascinating isn't it?What did you learn about some of these behind the scenes fallouts?Is there anything that would surprise us?

Well, so Catherine and Meghan, you know, I don't think they were ever going to be best mates, but it got off to a bad start.I think it was just a culture clash of American over -familiarity and British reserve.So there was that little tension at the beginning.Harry bristled when, you know, William, obviously, was concerned that it was going too quickly, the whole relationship.Behind the scenes, there was only one Fab Four.You may remember, people were talking about the Fab Four in 2018.

There was only one Fab Four engagement, which I covered, when they were all up on stage together.So there was tension behind the scenes there about who was going to speak first.

Could you see that tension?Was it quite palpable?

No, I think they were...Well, actually, William and...Harry on stage joked about disagreements, but it was very jokey stuff.So they were, it was very early days.I mean, they hardly knew each other.Then there was the, you know, row over the bridesmaids dress.

This is all before the wedding.

Yeah.

And then it went downhill after that.So with how the staff were being treated at Kensington Palace, the joint staff at that stage.So it was a mess.And I think it was preventable.I think egos got, on both sides got in the way.But by 2019, they were just heading for the exit door.

It's so interesting you say that, because I looked at the chemistry of them on stage at that Fab Four meeting, and I thought we were looking at a really bright modern future for the royal family.

It should have been so different.

Yeah.It's crazy.

And they all messed it up.

I like your comment about, with Queen Camilla and Catherine, about the relationship.Because I've said on this show in the past that what I remember about the two of them, they always got on and they kind of almost support each other.And, of course, Queen Camilla's been around for a lot longer.But when Catherine came in, she was very good at kind of, keep my right, giving her guidance.And it's interesting to see how, with the relationship the way it's gone,how Catherine is there to support her now with everything that is going on with the King's health and everything.

The two of them have always had this amazing connection, which is really nice.

The advantage they have over Diana and Meghan is time.They had a long time to decide what they wanted to do.to observe, and to observe Prince Philip and how he did it and how he supported Elizabeth II.Meghan and Diana just didn't have that time.

It's curious, and that was something from the...I haven't read it all.I'm going to take it on holiday with me. I can't wait to read it.But it was something that I picked up, and in the bits that I did read.And it is that obvious distinction, I suppose, between the lengths of the courtships.And we know from William and Catherine's engagement interview that he explained that he wanted to give her time, and goodness, he gave her a lot of time.

of time, it was almost a decade of courting, to really make sure that she was ready, that it was what they both wanted, and that she really understood what laid ahead, which makes it all the more confusing and baffling that Harry was in such a hurry, I suppose, with Meghan, which, as you pointed out, Jo, earlier, when we were chatting off there, was why Harry and William initially fell out.Yeah.Because that sort of gentle warning, that brotherly advice from William to Harry, don't rush things, make sure you know.To Umbridge, yeah.And he took Umbridge to that.

Well, he did, yeah.He bristled at that, because William and Catherine had those four years at university, which, you know, of normality, which Harry didn't have.And he absolutely bristled at that.But, you know, fair play to Elizabeth and Charles, they did learn the lessons from what happened with Diana, being rushed in in a matter of months.They did learn the lessons with Catherine, and she was given years to decide, are you sure you want to do this?And when she did commit, she went in eyes wide open.

So you saying that about Elizabeth and Charles learning the lessons of Diana, it brings to mind, again, the stories of Megan being told that she was forbidden from having any help with her mental health.

Yeah.

the palace.I think that's why people struggle with the credulity of that, because Diana made everybody so much more sensitive to those issues.

Recollections definitely vary on that one.Clearly, Harry and Meghan say that they got no support and they had people actively briefing against them.That is not the view of plenty of people who were working behind the scenes.

Do you take a mostly sympathetic view to the Duchess of Sussex and her situation?

Yeah, I think, I hope I am sympathetic to her and to all of them.It's an impossible job going into...And by the way, the idea that Meghan is the first person to have negative headlines on joining that firm is obviously nonsense.

Well, we've said that on the show before, Simon.We've said that she thinks she gets the worst time.Diana had to go through a huge amount.The Princess of Wales.Then Catherine Middleton went through a huge amount.

That said, probably none of them should ever have to go through some of the things that they get dragged through in the press.

And women get judged to a higher standard as well, even down to what they're wearing.Harry told us in the year, a couple of years before he met Meghan, he was genuinely worried he would ever find anyone who would want to marry him.Not because of the personal side of things, but everything else that goes with being a royal.So when he and Meghan found each other, 10 summers ago in London, it went into warp drive.You know, it was really quick.

I just want to ask you, because we must move on, but which Winsor wife do you believe has done the most to reshape the institution?For better or worse?Yes.

Yeah, I think Diana.But I'm biased.It's a generational thing.I mean, obviously, I remember her.But I think the role, how she's changed the relatability of the royal family, she's changed the family.And she changed that week.

I mean, she changed us as well.The country definitely did change.

Do you know the thing that's amazing though?She was so young, wasn't she?I didn't realise how young she was when she married into the Royal Family.And when she died, she was so young.And you forget that, don't you?

Yet she made such a change for the Royal Family.Well, Meghan on her wedding day was older than Diana was when she died.

You say you don't believe that Diana would have had anything of this brotherly rift, that she'd have banged their heads together and sorted them out if she was still here today.Do you think there's any chance of peace between Charles and Harry and also between William and Harry.Will they ever make it up?

Well, more chance between Charles and Harry, I think.I mean, obviously, they're in the foothills of that at the moment.Trust is a very delicate thing, of course.

But they had that meeting at Highgrove recently.

And, you know, he's an elderly man who wants to know his grandchildren and his son.Harry and William, as far as I know, there is no contact at the moment.And it'll never go back to the way it was, which is a great shame, because I really do think it was avoided.

It's on sale at the moment.The four wives of Windsor.I will be taking it on vacation when I go away next week.I'm really looking forward to diving into it.It's a beautiful cover, by the way.Well done.

You did it in an epic four months, Simon.

Never again.

Can you stop mentioning you're going on holiday?I'm going on holiday.Before I do, joining the show is Dan Wakeford, the former editor of People and founder of Celebrity Intelligence.Hi, Dan.Welcome back to Uncensored.

Thank you for having me.Very happy to be here.

Oh, it's great to have you on.Listen, I was watching your reports on Celebrity Intelligence, and I was really fascinated by all the stick that you had been getting from the online comments section about the whole Kate Middleton thing.title obsession, not calling her Catherine, referencing her as Kate.We're going to talk about some of the comments that we've been getting on the show because we're...How many shows have we done now, Jo?I don't know.

We've lost count.We're having so much fun.But we do have a lot of comments and we're going to be addressing some of them.But I just thought I'd pick up with you.and said, love the report that you did.But what kicked all of that off?

So basically, I was just doing a video and I very naturally called her Princess Kate.At People Magazine, Us Weekly, everywhere in America, we call her Kate and we call her Princess Kate.And I got so many attacks criticizing, you don't know what you're talking about, to calling her Kate.And so it really made me question this.And I did a full investigation about where this comes from.And it really just comes from one tabloid headline beginning calling her Kate and then SEO has really dominated how she has been called for the rest of her time.

And so I am now, not calling her Kate, calling her Catherine.I believe that you could call anybody what they ask to be called.And it seems that Catherine has been asking people to call her Catherine from now on.So that is what I will be calling her.

Simon, is she Catherine in your book?She is, isn't she?

She is definitely Catherine, yeah.So in the engagement interview, William calls her Kate in 2010.

Yes, which confused us all.

Yeah, so at university, and Kate obviously fits in the headline better, but at university in sixth form, she was Kate.for a short time, but to her family and to her close friends, she's Catherine.I'm told that very early on, when they were engaged, she said to Palace staff, can we call me Catherine, please?

Sorry, go on, Gareth.

We were called in on the day of the engagement, because I always knew her as Kate.From the outset, when I started working for them, I did ask how to address them, because I didn't know what the title should be.And they both said William and Kate, so that's how I knew them.But on the engagement, we were all called into this room and we were informed that from that day forward, she'll be known as Catherine Middleton.And then obviously after the wedding, she would be, because technically she's Princess, you know, Princess William.But I mean, they said that she'll be known as Catherine Middleton.

And then when she gets her new tie,if she gets a new title, she will be HRH and it will always be Catherine from this day forward.

You were there, Simon, when we met the Catherine Kate Middleton as she was on the day of the engagement, he introduced her, William introduced her as Kate and it stuck.On the subject of names, I did say we were going to read out some of the comments, but I was going to say, I got into trouble with one of our viewers for calling Lilibet, Lilibet.But I'm afraid her name is Lilibet.

It's because the name was stolen from Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth.Well, debate rages on about that.Recollections may vary.The poor child's name.

It is. I was only trying to be respectful by calling.I shall try and call her Lily.I won't call her Princess Lilibet if that makes you any happier.Lilibet is her name and she's Princess Lilibet.

Yes, she is Princess Lilibet.We don't know if they're going to use those titles yet.

Go down to Ladbrokes and take a bet on that.But anyway, I want to talk about fashion, because it's another one of my hats.

And you look fabulous, by the way.Well, bless you.

So do you, as always.You all do, everybody.But we get a lot of stick in the comments about what we wear.It's not just the four wives of Windsor that get stick.It's the hosts of the Royal Uncensored that get stick, too.Here's one of my favorites, Diana Weaver, 2014.

I'm afraid Jo is a bad influence, bad fashion influence on Katie.Although Jo does look nice today.I don't know what I was wearing that day, but thank you, Diana.Katie is mediocre today, but this follows last week's outfit, which was god -awful.Oh, dear.Wow.

Do you know what?I'm just going to say, you can have any opinion you like about my fashion.I famously on Instagram have a hashtag called clothes my husband hates.And I don't much care what my husband thinks of my outfits.

So in the comments.Do you know what?I wear what makes me happy.I love to wear colors.I was talking to my husband.a dress that looked like a prom dress.

It was actually a beautiful Romanzo dress.

I love it.But we don't discuss what we're wearing.No, and look at us today.Yeah, it's great.We're coordinated.

I love this one for Grant, though.Grant, what are the comments?

Can you confirm the tartan in your kilt?Do you remember when you wore a kilt?

Yeah, I did when I had my, yeah.

On camera, it looked very close to the McLaren.

That's pretty close.

Is Gillian Harvey right?

No, it's McLeod.It's Macleod.The thing about Scottish tartans is they're very similar.Sometimes it's a bit difficult to tell the colours.However, I should mention the King recently has been wearing the Bemoro, which he wore in Scotland.He wears the Bemoro tartan.

And just an interesting fact, the royal family, only people can wear that tartan.My tartan and others, you can wear them if you've got a historical connection through a mother, through a father, but the royal tartan of Bemoro, only the royal family can wear that.

Do you get trolled about your outfits, Simon?

No.Well, red socks, yeah, I do.But, yeah, I've only got red socks.Yeah, on a serious point, though, that is, you know, women get judged on how they look all the time, including the royal wives, and the men just get away with it.

Yeah, can I just say, the women get a harder time.But, Joe, you got a really bad time last week, and this is because it's something that you have pointed out several times on the show, and it is all about as we were discussing earlier, the rift between Harry and William.Yes.And, Jo, you saying, you know, a very grown -up point of view and also that whole idea of the monarchy needing to be united, William needing to get over it.

I think you might be on my side here, Simon.It's like people...I'm not disrespecting the fact that William and Harry have had a really hard time.Harry said lots of dreadful things about Princess Catherine in his book Spare, but...It's more than a family.It's an institution.

And I feel, I stand, I will die on this hill.They need to sort their house out if the monarchy is to stop this leading the narrative at every turn and every time Harry comes to town.Dan, what do you think?

I mean, I agree.I think the pressure is going to be on William, particularly when he becomes king, to make this move.I think the fact that he has got a brother who he's not speaking to does not position him as a strong world leader in the position he's going to inherit.And so I think that is when he's going to have the pressure he's going to be on.

So I'm just going to keep taking the stick, I'm afraid.It's uncensored, and that's my uncensored view.

It's uncensored, and that's exactly what we're out here to do.I'll just close the comments section.We will do this every so often on the show, because we welcome feedback.Absolutely.I'd like it to be respectful, but we do welcome feedback, don't we?Of course.

We'll take it, and we'll listen to it.Christine Burton says, you people carry on like the royal family are pure and perfect.I'm not sure that we do.I think we rather hold them to account.

Can I say I'm sad there's no comments about my shorts?You know the other week when I had my bow tie and my shorts?

People are still recovering from the trauma...

Do you think they are?..the trauma of the pink shorts.There's a lot of people who passed the mind bleach that day.I'm amazed I haven't sold out.

Yeah.Shall we move on?Because we've got those pure and perfect royals to discuss.First and foremost, Meghan Markle, who turned 45 this week on Tuesday, and she marked the occasion by...Jumping into a swimming pool, laden with balloons.Oh yes, and there was the dancing with the tiara, the supermarket bought tiara.

There she is with all her friends at the birthday party.I couldn't resist.Is that a tiara?I couldn't resist.It's a paper one.And there's the aforementioned picture I was talking about.

Maybe that's a California thing, I don't know.Jumping into the water with helium balloons.Very stylized.A lot of people seem to think that it's a homage, a nod to Princess Diana.I think that's a bit of a stretch.I'm thinking about those jumping off the yachts pictures.

But yeah, what did we all think of the video and the tiara?Tell us, Dan, how does it gone down in California?

I mean, it's like everything with Megan.It felt like a curated concert.strategy.It didn't feel natural.It just felt very orchestrated, full of headlines.I mean, it's giving Mrs. T -shirt.

It says everything about where Meghan is right now, still very much selling the marriage as the brand.And so everything just felt very natural.orchestrated and curated, it didn't feel natural and that's Macon's big problem.

I tell you what really struck me is like Harry was saying it as I was thinking it over and over again, oh dear, it just felt a bit cringed didn't it and also did you notice as well like sort of like Harry sweeping the camera to the sideboard in that kitchen and what looked like maybe bacon or fish or something sizzling in the pan next to a couple of dodgy looking tomatoes.It was as far away from With Love Megan and that sort of like curated goop lifestyle as I think you could possibly get.What did you think?Anyone?

I mean, I agree.The kitchen gets a lot of attention that they haven't renovated that kitchen and their real life isn't quite to the usual standards of Megan's brand.But I think generally overall, it did have the vibes of like curation and aspiration that Megan always goes for.But it just didn't feel natural.It felt staged.

I think that, like you say, Dan, that is her biggest problem.And didn't Martha Stewart come out this week and just say that she's just not cutting it with her website, with trying to be this homemaking guru?And maybe that is because it just doesn't feel authentic.And I think that's what people want.

Yeah, I mean, that's Megan's big problem is that she doesn't really know who she is or what she wants.She wants somebody else's dream.And then the other thing is that her what her aspirations are very different from Harry's aspirations.They seem very much in love, but perfectly unsuited, in my opinion.

I don't know.I don't know how we can work that out.know that.I mean, that seems a bit unfair to me.But, you know, they've got a brand.They've got to make money out there, haven't they?

And that's what they're doing, but...

No birthday wishes, Simon, from the royals?I mean, nothing on Instagram, and it's unheard of for them to do that.

No.So, yeah, it's been...I can't remember the last time they did do that, but, yeah.The public side of things is definitely cool.

I think it was just before Megxit, wasn't it, Joe?Exactly, yes.But would there have been some private messages, perhaps?I mean, we know that the King's very polite.

I would have thought...Cos I think the thing about the King, you know, like the late Queen, you know, birthday celebrations, they're always...I remember when I was there, it was a big thing.Whenever it was a royal birthday, we all knew about it.There was always messages sent out, there was gifts sent out, you know, personalised gifts and everything.So I find it hard to believe that that was all suddenly...

Just because we don't hear about it, I find it hard to believe that that would just stop.

Oh, yeah, I'm sure.I'm sure that privately there was.The greatest sadness, from my view, looking in from the outside, is that he doesn't know those grandchildren.

Yeah.

And, you know, he's in his late 70s.He doesn't really know them.

Well, there's been baby steps towards... thawing that relationship, hasn't it?But I want to go back to what you were saying.I'd love to know what kind of birthday presents the King gives.

Well, if it...I remember, dependent on whose birthday it was, for example, we've had Queen Camilla's birthday recently, now she loves her garden.And I always remember it was always things to do with the garden that he would do, and vice versa.She would also think of things for the garden at Highgrove.So, they would...Because what do you give somebody that's got everything?

I mean, that's the problem.Even when I used to give gifts, I remember, I'm sure you know this, he loved honey.Honey is one of his favourite things.And I used to kind of sauce things that had honey in them.A honey fudge, anything honey chocolate, anything that had honey in it, I used to give it.And he loved that.

I used to get these little handwritten notes saying he couldn't believe that I'd find these products.I used to find them when I used to kind of travel all over the place, find things for him.

I'll have to give you my birthday date.

You'll make sure I've got them all, and then I can give them to you.sure you get the appropriate gifts.Something pink.But no, I would try to, and that's what I learnt from them.And also, when it was friends and everything, you could be given, they would have things that were maybe created or made or something he's got an involvement in, whether it be a charity, whether it be to do with one of his schools, there'll be something.So they always had a personal meaning with what he actually gave.

But birthdays and celebrations are a big thing for the family.

And speaking of birthdays, Megan is actually birthday twins with the late great queen mother who would have been 126 on the 4th of August.Simon, I'm going to come to you first.What on earth do you think she would have made of the current Royal family, the Sussex drama?

Well, I mean, she would have been flabbergasted.Of course, she lived through the Wallace Simpson and Edward VIII saga, but...

And took a very dim view of that, I'm sure.

Yeah.But, you know, she was...One of the nicknames was the Imperial Ostrich.She would look the other way and hope a problem went away.She was the epitome of never explain, never complain.So the age of explaining and complaining would have just mortified her.

But is the ostrich metaphor about sticking your head in the sand and just ignoring everything going on?

Yeah, hoping the problem would go away.But, you know, never explain, never complain was definitely...

I remember a wonderful story where another member of staff, before I was there, apparently had had a few drinks, a few tipples, She would never say that you'd had too much to drink.She would actually say, I believe that such and such has been mixing their pills.Mixing their pills?She would never directly say something.She'd go round about it.

Maybe she thought Megan was mixing the pills when she did that ridiculous dance.Maybe.You're quite tough on the dance, aren't you?Oh, I'm sorry.To quote Cressida Bonus, it was cringe de la cringe.

I think there needs to be a dance -off between you two.

I'd love to see that.That was that awful dance that she did when she was in labour as well that we just saw.

Let a woman have her birthday and have a little jig around her own kitchen But listen before we mix our pills later grant did everybody see the those lovely pictures posted by, is it Glamis Castle?

Glamis Castle.

Glamis Castle, sorry, I was showing my Aussie there, in Scotland to mark the Queen Mother's birthday.

I thought it was wonderful.

Let's have a look at those.

Because it's very clever.I mean, I've been to Glamis many, many times.You know I've got an association with Glamis, because I...Of course you have.When I was younger, I wrote to the late Dowager, who is a cousin of the King, asking to buy the castle.And they said, you can't buy it, but let's be friends.

And when I went for the job with the King, Glams, the family of my referees.isn't that crazy?So I've known them for a long time.

So you wanted to buy her childhood home?

I didn't back then, I didn't realise it was a royal back then.You set the goals quite high.But hang on, you can visit Castlemate, can't you?You can visit the castle, you can visit it.And what's nice about those images is those images, obviously they've done historical images of the Queen Mother and then shown them up today.It was a wonderful little video that Glamis put together recently and it was nicely done.

But the Queen Mother had a love, as does the King, I should mention, the King and Queen have both been back to Glamis in recent years.And Princess Margaret, I believe in 1930, was born there and that was the first royal birth in Scotland over 300 years.So there's a very strong closeness with Glamis and the royal family.

Well, talking of royal births, this one happened...Thank you for that nice segue, Grant.This one happened in Portugal.This is Princess Eugénie and her husband, Jack Brooksbank.They've had They've had a baby girl, because they've got two little boys, of course.They've got August, who is five, and Ernest, I think he's called Ernie, who's three.

This little girl has yet to have a name.But we had a lovely post on Instagram.Jack and I are so excited to announce Baby Girl Brooksbank, because that's what she's known as, hasn't she?We are beyond in love with our girlie, Dan.This is nice news, isn't it?

It is.It's what we love about the Royals, the relatability, the births, and the family fun.And so this is a nice distraction from a lot of the drama.But there is kind of big questions on the horizon, like, will Andrew be invited to a christening?Very likely.They have done in the past.

The couple are close to Harry and Meghan.Would that bring the whole family together?doubtful that they would introduce that kind of contention but as much of a joyful event as this is lots of questions on the horizon related to this.

Is there still that that sort of shadow of anything Andrew related sort of almost threatening to eclipse for Eugenie stateside in terms of sort of negativity?

For certainly, that is how the American public know these princesses, through their father and that association.So it is the secondary thing you think of straight away.And I don't think that these girls are going to be able to escape that for the rest of their lives in many ways.It is a shadow, as you say, and it's not fair for them, to be honest.

Well, I suppose what's interesting, and it does raise an important question here, is we know the baby won't have an HRHD.title, but she is 15th in line to the throne.Now, what that technically does, because the line of succession is extraordinary, and I suspect, and I don't mean anything demeaning in terms of the American audience, but if it's hard for us to understand over here, very, very alien, I suspect, for an American audience, that what that technically means is that the Duke of Edinburgh, that's Prince Edward, who is an incredibly hard -working member of the royal family, he's out and about alongside Sophie doing so much to support the king, he gets pushed down to 16th in line for ababy who's not HRH, with all of the connotations of Andrew, as you say, hanging over Eugenie.How does that go down in the States?I'm curious.

I think that is very much in the weeds.America loves the disqualification of the royal family.I don't think they're going into that much detail and worrying about where those ranks are because they're never going to come into play.Because the 16th person related to the throne, it's never going to become a real situation that everybody has to deal with.So I don't think in America, they're quite obsessed about that, but more interested in the tiaras and the castles and the exciting glamour of the royal family.

It's still a valid point that Andrew is somehow still eighth in line.to the throne in all of this.It feels like it's time for a review, Simon.

And he's a councillor of state, is that right?He's still a councillor of state?

Yes.So on that one, he would never actually deputise for Charles if Charles was incapacitated.There are other people, including Edward and Anne, who would do that.If the worst possible case scenario, and he was getting close to the throne, we're told there would be an act of Parliament.

There would have to be, wouldn't there?There would absolutely have to be.

So, yeah, in theory, he's in the line of succession.In reality, it's a vanishingly tiny chance of even getting to that stage.

You talk about changemakers, and the Royal Words of Windsor being changemakers very much in your book.I look at Eugenie, she's living the life of a really modern princess in that she has a job, she's a working mum, juggling now three children.This baby was born in Portugal, so I don't know whether it's going to have dual nationality or not, but they're sort of dividing their lives between being over here, where they still have a place over at Kensington Palace, don't they?I think they still have Ivy Cottage, don't they?

I think they've got a place in the country somewhere.

Somewhere in the country.They've got a place at St. James's Palace.They definitely have a place in the country.small royal residence.And of course, there's a house in Portugal.And do you think that's the sort of what we might expect of our modern royals?

Yes, there has to be.I think there has to be a hybrid role.And that's what Harry thought he was being offered before he says it was taken off the table at the Sandringham Summit.There has to be a way that, you know, Charlotte and Louis, and indeed, Archie and Lilibet and the other, the others can support the crown without having to be full -time on the sovereign grant HRH, I mean Charlotte and Louis will be our HRH, but there has to be a way they can support the king and the immediate family without being accused of cashing in when they're doing their private lives.So and that's obviously an issue that has been with Beatrice and Eugenie.They're not they're not accused of cashing in because they're not doing full time royal engagements.

But I think that's going to how it's going to develop over the coming decades, because it seems very restrictive.And I think we're by the way, we're we have to decide what we want.You know, we're accusing people of cashing in, but we don't want them to cost us too much.And we've got to decide how we want to balance that.Harry thought he could have a hybrid role of six months doing royal stuff, six months doing his own stuff.And he was told, no, it's one or the other.

It's fascinating, isn't it?But I want to move on to some more fascinating things now, because I think this is the kind of news that when you hear it, you remember where you are and where you were sitting, because Buckingham Palace has released a video unveiling this uh we know that they've spent 370 million pounds refurbing uh the palace buckingham palace over the last 10 years and they've released a video showing their beautiful glossy glamorous new Lifts.I'm absolutely speechless.We're looking at this incredible footage now.Buckingham Palace said new lifts open at Buckingham Palace.And I think that's the enthusiasm.

As well as replacing core building services, the resurfacing program has completed lots of improvements to accessibility.since it began in 2017.Now, obviously, anything that increases accessibility, as we're seeing here with this lovely chap here, is absolutely brilliant, particularly in these old, antiquated buildings.It's a lot of money just to see your value in the lifts.I mean, when are we going to see the whole thing?

Well, I mean, we are seeing lots of it.I mean, it's being opened up gradually.In fairness to them, there was a lot of asbestos in there, and there was a lot of very dodgy old wiring and lead pipes, which just had to be...

Oh, I think it needed the overhaul.It needed it.

Had to be ripped out.

Yeah.

I think the controversial thing is that we now have confirmation that the King is never going to live there.And, you know, it was always...We were briefed 10 years ago, this is about making a royal residence fit for purpose.Well, bottom line is, it's not a royal residence anymore.

No, and I think that that's where the tension is, isn't it?Because that's breaking an almost 200 -year tradition.I mean, every monarch has stayed in there since Queen Victoria, until now.

Yeah.

But...So, I think, you know, a lot of people will say to you, the king can live where he wants to live.On the other hand, the taxpayer has paid all of this money.So I suppose, Dan, the question is, does this make it something exciting for American tourists?Would this make Britain more of a destination if we're looking at Buckingham Palace becoming really a museum piece, a tourist attraction, more and more?

I mean, the fact that there's lifts in there does not do that.I think that was a distraction from the core issue, that the king doesn't live there anymore.And I do think that does take some of the shine off this.I'm with you.We love a palace, we love the glory, the glamour, and Buckingham Palace isn't the most glamorous palace as it is.And now that a king and the monarch doesn't live there, half the magic of Buckingham Palace was thinking that the monarch lived there.

And so I don't think it's quite as an attractive proposition anymore.Of course, people are going to go and visit it.But I don't know if it's as sustainable as a glittering jewel in Buckingham Palace.in Britain's tourist attractions in the same way as it was.

There will obviously still be big state events there, state banquets, investitures, garden parties.The meeting of the Prime Minister happened there as well.It is the office, really, and he stays at Clarence House.But I agree, I mean, it does...The frisson of excitement that tourists have, and we've all met them outside the palaces, they want to...Are they going to see somebody at the window?

Are they going to see a car coming past?

To your point earlier, Simon, when you said, you know, Harry half in, half out, the royals having to decide, are they costing us too much or do they need their own jobs?Well, how can they justify having this huge palace, which will largely stand empty if it's only the king and queen living there?Isn't it better that they spend this money on the refurbishment, they put the lifts in to make it accessible for everyone?and people can go and enjoy it and see it.I think when you're future -proofing the monarchy, I don't think there's much option.

Yeah, and it will be definitely opened up more than it is at the moment.It's open right now for the state apartments, and it will open up more.The East Wing, which we can see in the picture there, that's only recently opened.

So do you think this is a commercial shot in the arm for the firm?Do you think it will work?

Yeah, well, it has to work.It has to be seen as a national building for everybody, and that's why they are opening up with more garden parties and more events there.We saw a little taste of that with the Golden Jubilee when they had the concert in the garden, you know.

I just think it's exciting when you drive past and think, oh, he might be in there.And if that's lost, I think you do lose some of the magic.

Can I just add, the lifts I have to point out, they are quite important, because I remember all royal residencies, left.Some of them are smarter than others.Some are very smart.But I remember there's one at Sandringham which needs to be updated.It's I think from the 1920s.And one of my favourite stories was from one of the chaps at train meetings.

telling me that he once called the lift down to the basement.He got into the lift and there was a very glamorous lady with a tiara, ballgown, Gin and Diboni and a cigarette.Of course, you would think this is the Queen, but with a cigarette, it's Princess Margaret.And she told him to get in, so he got in, they went to the next floor, he got out to let her out, and she looked at him and said, not getting out here where a glass is kind of wrapping with the ice.So he got back in and they go to the next floor and he gets out and she's still smoking a cigarette.And can you imagine the smoke and everything, this little tiny little space, eventually get to the top floor and she's still not getting out.

And she said, what are you doing to this, this footman?And he said, well, I don't know which floor you're getting out of.And she said, I'm not getting out.And he said, well, with respect around us, what are you doing?And she said, I'm trying to enjoy my gin and Dubonnet and cigarette and peace and quiet.And he closed the lift to carry on going up and down.

So the lifts are quite important.

Why wasn't that on the crown?

They didn't speak to me.They should have had Grant as a consultant on the Crown.

That was a mistake.I was asked that time of day.To be honest, I think that Lyft story could be a film.

Can you imagine if that was the only place you could get a bit of peace and quiet was in the Lyft?

She did it and also hid from the Queen because the Queen didn't approve of anyone smoking.So the Queen, that's why she was hiding.and they're out of the way.

God, you've got to miss the likes of Princess Margaret, haven't you?I know.They don't make them like that anymore.We did have the Prince and Princess of Wales and their gorgeous family at the Commonwealth Games.On Saturday, they were in Scotland with the three children.I thought it was rather lovely, actually, that they took a little break from their summer holidays.

Of course, the King and the Queen were also there.They arrived in a TARDIS.It is a very novel way to enter the Commonwealth Games, but I think what is so lovely is the way the Royals have put the games on the map.We have had Princess Anne there, we have had the King and Queen there, we have had the Waleses there, we have had the Edinburgh's there, and it is obviously an important occasion for them.

It is nice to see the Wales children.A great friend of mine is on theboard of delegates for the Australian contingent, and I know how much they appreciate the Commonwealth Games and how much, how unified they feel by seeing that presence.I think it's wonderful.

And Glasgow saved it, really, because obviously it was in peril for a while.But it is a great event.It was a great event.And for many athletes, it's their first big sports event that they go to.And then they go on to the Olympics, hopefully.

Well, we know who the star of the Commonwealth Games was.It wasn't an athlete.It's Prince Louis.Absolutely.We've got a picture of him and his little, um...Bucket hat.

There he is.

Mike, your comrade.Welsh cycling.

Fabulous.It's a Welsh cycling bucket hat.Well, they were watching the cycling, and they're there with the Duke and Duchess of Edinburgh.And I don't know actually how many people know that there's a very lovely relationship between William and Catherine, Sophie and Edward.They do spend quite a bit of time together, particularly when they're all up in Norfolk together.And you just see it as a family outing.

We know how mad they are.Both William and Catherine are about sports.We know that the children have inherited their love of sports.George particularly is a really talented footballer.Charlotte loves her ballet.Dan, these pictures just make us smile back here, not least because it's summer and it's very quiet.

I'm sure they've gone down just as well across the pond too.

They've done exactly what this family really good at, bringing such a positive shine to the monarchy.I mean, Louis in that bucket hat grinning has probably done more for the popularity of the monarchy than every other engagement this year.It's just lovely, the relatability, the family, the warmth.and the wholesomeness of what is going on and it's really effective and Americans love all of this.

Of course they do, well we do too, we do too and I think there is a sense when you see those pictures and that footage and again just pointing out that the Wales' take the whole of the summer off and George is about to go to Eton, this is a really, really special time for them but they've come out of their little bubble whether they were in you know the Silly Artsor on their way to Norfolk to do this, duty as well as giving the children a wonderful holiday.But I think you get the sense that that's sort of the hardest year of their lives, which William has referenced on several occasions.You feel that they've come through that, that they're really enjoying a new chapter.And I think that's very heartwarming, isn't it?

It certainly is.They've gone through a lot and now they're having a real bonding moment as a family.I loved the moment with Prince George kind of like talking about his embarrassing parents and saying, no, I don't want to see that.It was just so relatable and just and just lovely.And they do seem to be finding their stride and having a great moment as a family after difficult times.

And Prince Edward, just so It clearly seems to have a lovely bond with the children.Sophie and Edward, I understand, spend quite a lot of time with William and Catherine.Yes.And they get on, don't they, Simon?

Yeah, absolutely.And as you said, it's actually quite a tight top team now, at the top of the, supporting the King and the Queen.What I like about the events like Wimbledon and the Commonwealth Games is there's no big hype about these public appearances.There's no forward and advance notice that the children are going to be there and get a tiny bit.But, you know, so there's no big hype before they arrive at Wimbledon or before they arrive at the Commonwealth Games.So that's a big change in the monarchy.

You know, it's a gentle introduction for these children into these big events.

And it's funny you preemptively there, because what's your view on, I think they stage manage those public moments with the children really, really beautifully.I mean, you know, we there's no sense that we know too much about George, Louis and Charlotte.But they are public figures and they will be part of the monarchy.So they introduce them gently.It feels like the right balance between privacy and normality.

I agree.We see them at the carol service, we see them at trooping.we see them on Christmas Day at Sandringham, but these are just a few occasions each year and we have the photos for birthdays and Mother's Day and whatever.But it is a deliberate policy and it's very different to the childhood that William and Harry had.

And they seem very comfortable, don't they, in front of the cameras?And I'm sure that's largely because of how their parents have gently introduced them.As you say, they're...Yes, of course, they're always going to be photographers, as there will be on George's first day at Eton, but it's all very delicately handled.

Yes, and his first day at Thomas's, the prep school, it was just close -up.It was one TV camera, one photographer.Completely different to the images we remember of William and Harry having their first day at school, big crowd of photographers.So, yeah, that's got to be an improvement, hasn't it?

Sometimes lessons are learned, which is great.Well, we're going to move on now because we're going to talk about King Charles, who might have been breaking with tradition and not living at Buckingham Palace, but there is one tradition which he will not be swayed from, and that is migrating to Scotland every summer.We're making him sound like a goose, aren't we?

He loves Scotland.

He absolutely loves it.Now, he's kicked off the season, as he always does, at the Castle of May and the May Highland Games on Saturday.Lots of great Scottish things there for you to do.The Highland dancing, the weightlifting, all of those things, traditional Scottish stuff, which we love.And if you really like geeking out about the royal family, you might have noticed that he was in the company of Sarah Chateau, Lady Sarah Chateau, daughter of the formidable Princess Margaret, and one of his favorite cousins.They get on really well, don't they?

Now, you've got a lot of, memories of the castle of May where the king is staying before he goes to Balmoral.

It was the Queen Mother's castle.When George VI died, she thought she was no longer needed.She bought the castle of May while staying up with her friends in 1952.She bought it as a retirement home.Thankfully, that's not what happened, but it became a very much loved family home.The late Queen would go up there, they used to have Britannia sail past, and they used to set fireworks off on Britannia, and from the castle made to sail out to each other, with the Queen Mother at the castle and Queen Elizabeth on the Royal Yacht.

So there's a lot of history there, and the King obviously took on the castle.He's in a trust now.He's obviously in charge of that.But not only that, he spends time there every year without failure.

Well, he would have as a boy as well, wouldn't he?

Because the Queen Mother spent most of August there all the time.Yeah, who he adored.The Queen Mother was a big part of his life.And what's nice about the Castle of May, he's kept it.It's all been updated, but he has kept a lot of those memories of the Queen Mother.there and when I went up there I had an amazing time.

I remember being sent, it was a bit strange, my parents lived quite nearby so when I went up there my mother thought it was a joke because they were about 40 minutes away and I went up there thinking, to be honest with you I thought my first tour with the Now King was going to be somewhere overseas but no, they sent me to Scotland and we arrived at Castle May and I was amazed at this beautiful castle.But I was also terrified, because it's an old castle.And I remember in the evening, after we'd finished our duties, we were sitting in the staff room, and they started telling ghost stories.

Right.

And I believe in ghosts.So I was thinking, oh, this is going to be a disaster, you know, when it's bedtime.I thought something's going to happen.And the housekeeper turned around to me, and she said, right, off you go to bed, because of the, you know.And I remember looking at the housekeeper, and I said, would you come with me?And she said, I'm not that kind of lady.

And I said, no, no, not for that.I said, I don't want to go to my bed on my own.So she said, don't be ridiculous.There's nothing to be frightened of.And so I go off to my room.but I just went up the stairs, a spiral staircase.

She said, don't forget, His Royal Highness is below you, so don't make any noises.So I go up to my room, I walk in, a tiny little room, but I immediately look under the bed, because in the horror movies, it's under the bed.I look behind the curtains.Anyway, I'm looking around, there's nothing there.But then I turn around, and behind my bedroom,door was this mannequin, I believe his name was Gerard.

Now, Gerard the mannequin normally lives in the dining room, but somebody had taken him up my spiral staircase, heading behind my door.It was that housekeeper.It was probably the housekeeper.But when I saw this mannequin, do you know my home alone?When he screams, I couldn't stop screaming.

This is the weirdest story I've ever heard.

And when I stopped screaming, I could hear this laughter, I thought this is some sort of prank.So now I try to get out of my room, but as I'm trying to pull him out of my room, he falls on his back, his trousers come down.So now it looks like I'm dragging somebody out of my room.And one of the chefs saw me and she said, what are you doing?Why have you got one in your room?I said, this is not what you think.

And she's like, you're only going to be here five minutes.I said, no, this is not, this is a dummy.And she said, that's what they all say.So she then helps me get out of my room.Gerard out of my room, following morning, in at breakfast, His Majesty's at the table.And he suddenly says to me, how was last night?

And I said, very good, thank you, sir.He said, was everything OK?And I said, well, I know you're below me, son, you might have heard me scream.And he said, why were you screaming?What happened?And I said, well, somebody put a mannequin behind my door.

And he said, Grant, I'm so sorry.Why?This is the Royal Household.You wouldn't expect someone to do that.You know, I can't apologize enough, and all this kind of thing.

I think I know where this is going.

Anyway, as I go back into the pantry, he calls me back.And he said, Grant, I need to tell you something.I said, I'm really sorry, Si.I'm amazed you didn't know.He said, I did know about it.I was involved in the planning of it.

Well, do you know what?That was a long story, but I think it was worth it.

It shows you his absolute sense of humor, which I loved.

Well, look, I just want to talk about a notable absence from the Castle of May.Besides Gerard the Mannequin is Queen Camilla, who is not with the King in his Scottish holiday.No, she's not.She is apparently on a boat somewhere in Greece and we won't begrudge her that.But I think, is this one of the secrets to their lovely, happy partnership?Separate holidays?

Well, yes, absolutely.And separate interests.And she still has her old house, Ray Mill, which was her non -negotiable, so she could go there for the weekend with her family and watch the soap operas without... somebody tutting in her ear and going on separate holidays every now and then.That's the key to it.I think Prince Philip said the key to all of this is to have different interests.

It's fascinating isn't it Dan because when I think about that in contrast with I remember as being a kid in the 80s and 90s and if you saw Princess Diana having a great time at the Duran Duran concert Prince Charles would be next to her sort of like looking like he was groaning and if you saw Prince Charles looking at like he was having a whale of a time in Balmoral.There's Diana to the side, eye rolling.I mean, this is that, you know, it was such a mismatch from the beginning, wasn't it?

It also just shows how times have changed, that we have a different understanding of being happy independently to be happy as a couple.My husband and I often, we have a rule that we're allowed to go on separate vacations at least once a year, and I've just done that.And so I think it's really happened.We don't have separate bedrooms like Camilla and Charles, but separate holidays at times for sure.And I think it really works for Charles and Camilla.Like he goes north to have some solitude in Balmoral.

She goes south to be social in Greece.And I think it's really great.

So separate bedrooms for Charles and Camilla.Who do you think is the biggest snorer of the two?

I mean, I'm betting on Charles, to be honest.I bet you know, don't you?Of course I know, but some secrets go to the grave.Indeed.

Shall we move on before I get into any more trouble?

Yes.Well, there was a lovely story that caught my eye this week, which was a school report on the late Duke of Edinburgh, Prince Philip.who I really miss, actually.I think, you know, he was a wonderful man.In fact, Simon, you and I went on quite a few tours together, didn't we?I remember being in Malta at the Commonwealth Games.

of Games, which I think was Prince Philip's last overseas.

Yes, I think that's right.He would have been in a great mood in Malta.

He was in a good mood, actually.He was in a really good mood.He loved it when that chap was playing the bagpipes, made out of a goat, do you remember?Yeah, yeah.And it just tickled him and, you know, when Prince Philip started roaring with laughter, all the rest of us did, and it made for a wonderful copy.

It's only royal stories where you can say, do you remember that thing that was made out of a goat, and everybody just nods along.

I mean, random things, but it's true.These stories are true.But his old boarding school, which was Gordonstone, of course, which Charles hated when he was there.The Prince of Wales was miserable there.He called it Coldit St. He absolutely hated it.But Philip loved it and was a great student there.

And his school report has been released.And it reveals that he was naughty, but never nasty, and unsurprisingly, that he was a born leader.Now, this has only just surfaced.I understand it wasn't going to be made public for another 20 years or so, but it has come out.The headmaster, who at the time was Kurt Hahn, noted that he had grown impatient of what for short may be called royal nonsense.I don't think he had any time for nonsense ever in his whole life.

After matches and theatrical performances, people often asked him for an autograph because, of course, before he married The Queen, he was a prince in his own right.He found this ridiculous and on one occasion signed himself the Earl of Baldwin to the bewilderment of the autograph hunter.I mean, he just, he didn't suffer fools, did he?

No, he was, we miss him.We do.He was a great character.Elizabeth II said a couple of times that she couldn't have done what she did without his support.And before he went, Gordonstone was not his first school.He was sent there by his relatives because a school in Germany He was one of the few boys who refused to join the Hitler Youth and it took the mickey out of him.

Youth and they had to move him to Gordonstoun which is how he ended up in the UK and a few years later met a young princess.

And the story unfolded after that.

I have to ask, what was your report cards like?I don't remember mine.

I wasn't very popular in the PE department.

Oh, really?Yeah.I was called a chatterbox.

Oh, funny that.

He never stops talking.

Funny that.

Simon, what was your report?

OK, I got banned from needlework.I kept messing up the sewing machines.I call that a badge of honour.

Dan, I know that you were very, very naughty at school, weren't you?

The opposite.I was a geek.I was head boy.Like Joe, I think the only weakness, I'm a geeky journalist, is the sports.That was probably the only B I would have got.

OK.All right.

What was yours, Katie?

I was head girl.Of course she was.A little bit naughty sometimes.I was at a convent, so actually I was quite badly behaved.But anyway, we will not go into that.We will not go into that.

That's it from us this week.Thanks to our guests Simon Veigar and Dan Wakeford.If you haven't already, please like and subscribe on YouTube.See you next time on The Royals Uncensored.