J. Cole Gets Real on Drake & Kendrick Battle, JAY-Z Diss Rumor & The Fall Off

I have a hard time not being honest. Like, like, if you ask me a question, I'm damn near a dangerous interview because it's like, I feel like I got to answer that shit with what's in my heart.

Because y'all all supposed to be on first person shooter together, right?

Before that beat ever made it to me, I think Drake wanted that to be a him and that song.

Peace, welcome back to 7pm in Brooklyn. I'm Carmelo Anthony here with my co-host. So excited to be back on the couch, Monica McNutt. It's been a good hoop season. I'm excited to be here.

It sure has. My name is Kazem Famuyide, you can call me Kaz. And this is a Wave original presented by FanDuel, the official sports betting partner of the NBA. Monica is back, Mello's here. We got a great guest, a long-awaited guest. By the way. Yes, we do. This is why we started this show,

to be 7 p.m. in Brooklyn. But this one right here, it is different, man. A lot of people get called great, only a few really move the culture. Our guest today has been one of the most consistent voices in hip hop for over a decade, never chased a moment, never chased a noise, and just stayed him. And what I respect the most,

whatever the conversation was, he stood tall on it. From Fayetteville to the world, Dreamville, the fall off, and the civic has finally made it to Red Hook. J. Cole, welcome to 17.

How are you doing?

Yeah, what up?

What up. Welcome. Welcome.

Thank y'all for having me, man.

Is the Civic outside?

Is it raining?

Nah, hell no.

That shit's raining.

That shit's raining.

That shit's parked up.

It's parked up where you know where it was before, but thank y'all for having me.

Absolutely. Man, I was bothering E for months. I'm like, yo, when he's ready to talk,

he come in here, right?

It's like, yeah, we got you. I never forgot. I seen Melo, I think you hadn't even started it, but you was telling me you was about to start it. It was years ago. I was trying to start it with you.

Word up. I told him I would come through, but I was just like, yo, let me just finish this album first. And it just took me mad long. But it took about three years, maybe since that conversation, but I never forgot. So thank y'all for having me and for being patient.

Rob Markman Of course, man.

I'm glad you finished the album first, too, because it's just phenomenal body work. Obviously, we're going to get into up at Soul House but let's take it back even further than that Cole what do you remember about first meeting Melo from your point of view? I don't know when I

first met Melo I ain't gonna lie. It was probably later than uh it was probably later than what I would think because I feel feel like you, yo, low key. First time I'm, it might've been in like in a little after party or something. Low key. It was? Okay, in Denver.

This is in Denver, wow. Cause in my mind it's like, yo, Melo like, you know, at least back then, I'm sure you was probably outside kicking and hanging out, but like you wouldn't be in the industry type of things. You know what I mean? Like you wouldn't necessarily see Mello there. Not that I was heavy, but the times that I would go, you wouldn't really see Mello.

He was like more low key than that. But yeah, the memory just came back. We was in that little after party in Denver, some random spot to me. I don't know if it might've been a regular spot for me. It was random. I'm a Melo fan, you know what I mean? Off rip, you know what I mean? You legendary. But my man Eve, nah.

Eve was like, you know, like OG Melo fan. Like Melo is his number one, you know what I mean? Like, you know, people got that, people they ride for and argue for. Eve was on that early.

You know what I mean?

So us being in that party and you being there was a big deal. It was like, oh shit, yo Melo over there. It was the old Denver days, man.

Yes, man.

Shout out to Denver. And shout out to Eve. So that's what I remember. It was just in a random spot in Denver, you know what I mean? And we was like, oh shit, there go Melo, you know what I mean? So then what was the actual first interaction? You were in the spot. So it was like- I was just about to be like, girls are way different. Yeah, no, I think, you know, it was just a dap up.

Cause it's a spot, it's music playing. He got his section over there. We might not even had a section. We was just moving.

We were still moving like college kids almost, but it's probably just a dap up. You can tell me if you remember anything more. We in Denver, I'm like, you know what I mean? You don't see artists, you don't see people like in Denver. You see the same artists in Denver a lot of the time, which is a lot of West Coast artists. Snoop, Ice-T, E-40s, like you know what I mean?

Too Shorts and all that. You see all of them out there in Denver. So to see Cole there, I'm like, oh, okay. Something is happening. We must be doing something on the court to make Cole want to take a stop in Denver. So that's how it was.

Do you remember why you were in Denver?

I mean, I ain't gonna lie, I think it was a show. We probably had a show, which at that time, it's not like my name was, I was on my way up, you know what I mean? But it wasn't like I was so poppin' that it would've been the talk of the town. It wasn't at the arena or nothing. So I probably had a show or some club appearance

or something, or not even, it wouldn't have been a club appearance, but probably a show, or maybe a radio, some type of radio event or something, you know what I mean? And then how we were just, I came up, my childhood, I spent my childhood damn near partying. I grew up in a party house, first of all,

like Friday, Saturday nights in my crib was dominoes, spades, music, hey, go get me a beer, boom, boom. Like it was that, like, and so, and then I grew up going to the skating rink on the weekends myself. That was my party. I had to go see what was popping. College, high school, I'm still partying.

Teen clubs is now a thing. College, I'm partying. So then once we got on and got a little activity, every city we go to, it could be Buffalo, New York.

It could be anywhere. We just trying to see like, yo, what is it like here? So that's probably why we was out, finding something to do after the show. What was your first impression of Cole? Maybe not just meeting him, but maybe the music. What was the first thing that stood out to you? We close in age, so it was more, like that's what we was using. College, coming out of college, we was partying.

It was that party last night. It was that vibe back then, you know what I mean? Like Asher Roth type shit, man. I'm like, you know what I'm saying, shout out. But it was like, that was like the vibe, you know what I mean? It was always parties, it was always,

that was the mid 2000s, you know what I mean? So it was a very good time. And again, from my perspective was to see people come through Denver at that time, I probably was naive and I'm like, shit, man, we putting Denver on. Like people want to come do shows.

I used to see Ray Kwan out there in Denver. I used to see all of the, most of the Wu was out there in Denver, Kiss was out there in Denver, the Locks, you know, style. So everybody was coming to Denver. We was creating like a little culture.

So to see him out there, it was like, oh shit, okay, yo, we doing something. We about to turn up tomorrow.

You definitely did what you said though, because like coming to Denver, we thinking Mello, we thinking Nuggets, we thinking like what you was doing. So it was like, you did, like mind you, we didn't come there for that, but we doing a show.

And when we coming into Denver, our reference point is what you done built with the Nuggets. You know what I mean? So that is our reference point. So that's why to see you in the spot,

we was probably like, oh shit, they gon' mellow.

You know what I mean?

But- There's only so many spots in Denver.

That's what I'm saying.

Shout out to Denver, though, I wanna say Denver. they do have a strong hip hop love, which is probably why them guys was coming out there so much, Rayquan, I'm sure they done had Kweli, a bunch of guys pulling up because they really do have a strong love of hip hop in Denver, something I wouldn't know being from Carolina until I actually get there and it's like,

oh snap, like, yeah, Denver's a-

And the radio was so big. I miss radio, I do miss the way that we had the culture that we was doing radio shows on the radio. So we was doing sports and hip hop shows on the radio. So the artist was coming in and that's how we was getting a lot of artists to come to the after to the games and after parties and things like that because we was tied into the radio as well. And then once we bought the wire there, it was like, you know, you bought the wire to the devil. Oh, you bugging now, but that's that's that that's that moment of our connection.

That's amazing. Well, okay. So we got another connection that you guys share making it to the cover of NBA 2K. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So for you, obviously, well documented, grew up a Hoopers doing your thing. What did that moment represent? Nah, that was crazy. Like, because I have, I technically got no business being on the cover of 2K, but it was a cool moment for me

because it's like, yo, they just recognized that, they reached out and they recognized, it's like, yo, I really got a love of hooping. You know what I mean? Like I really got a love, no matter how good or bad I am, it's like, yo, I really love this. And on top of the love, what I represent is, I represent the dream. It's a dude right now,

he in his mid 30s or early 30s, and he love to hoop. Like he working all week, he got kids, boom, boom, boom, and he can't wait till he get a chance on Sunday to go to his run. Everybody got they run, that they put together with their holey boys. And it's like, yo, I'm really representing, like that dude and there's millions of him out there,

never let go of one, his love of hooping, although he wasn't good enough to be a D1 or like a star in D1, or he wasn't necessarily good enough to go play pro, his love is like damn near that of a pro. You know what I mean? Where it's like, yo, he never let it go. So I represent that.

And I also represent like the dream of like, yo, like I say it out loud. I mean, my I, if I, I know I'm not good right now. Don't get it twisted. There was never a part of me that thought I was good enough to like be pro, never. I got real, like, I got at least a much of a realistic look at myself to know, nigga, you're not a pro.

But my thought was, yo, if I really go every day and train harder than anybody's training out there, what could I be? You know what I mean? So making that cover to me is just like a forever stamp of like, that's what I embody. You know what I mean?

So let me ask you this though, because after Bam dropped 83, it's a whole lot of conversation about respecting blah, blah, blah. Did you ever think to not do the cover out of respect?

No?

Never.

No, no, never. That's a good question. No, no, no. No, no, no. No, no. Because nobody in the world is thinking that I made that cover based off of my athletic ability or my accomplishments with basketball. Nobody's fool. I'm not wearing that cover in a jersey. I'm in a regular ass fit with some Dreamers on.

You know what I mean?

NBA street right there.

Yeah, exactly. Nobody, those are the prototype Dreamers too. That's like our first version, some joints that we put now. But my point is, I know nobody's confused that I made that based off the merits of what I've done. Everybody knows that what 2K was trying to accomplish was something cultural, you know what I mean? With somebody that actually represents a love of the game. You know what I mean?

And so nah, I never felt like I was disrespecting nobody. Because guess what? 2K, they make several covers now. They like, I took the spot from whoever was,

I think, Jimmy Booker was in it.

Was it the Dreamer edition it was called?

It was the Dreamer edition, yes.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So nah, I never felt, I never felt no way about that.

Okay.

Man, you know what's crazy though? Like even if you weren't rapping about it, like you'd see the old come up and warm up covers, a lot of the euphemisms in your bars, like basketball's always sort of been in the center of it. So being able to chase that dream, especially as like, I don't wanna call you an every man rapper, but you kind of speak for the regular dudes, you know what I mean?

Basketball is such a humanizing sport for folks that can't ever make it to the pros, right? So when it comes to you, man, why is it, even all these years later, basketball always sort of centers you and brings you back to what makes your art so good?

Like why do I love it so much?

What about it?

One, it's like the competition of it. I love, I just love the competition of it, one. But two, more than the competition against somebody else, it's really against yourself. You know what I mean? It's like a mastery or an ability,

because I never mastered shit, you know what I mean? But I know what it's like to get better than I was yesterday, or a week ago, or a month ago, or a year ago. That's what I love about basketball, is like, yo, I can measure my growth.

You know what I mean? I can see it. I can watch how bad I was, or how regular I was, and how much better I've gotten in this one area. And I feel like I'd be needing that in my life. My music is the same way, my writing is the same way,

my rap is the same passion where it's like, yo, I wanna push myself. And basketball gives me like a measurable thing. That's why I can see one day, I don't play golf right now, but I can see one I'm terrible right now, but if I put enough work in,

that's what I like about basketball too, it's fair.

Yeah, it's a meritocracy.

It's fair, if you put the work in, you can get there. And if you don't put the work in, it's gonna show. You know what I mean? So I love that about basketball too. It's like it's an even playing field. Of course you're gonna get athletically gifted people, you know what I mean? But like, but you know, that's why I love Steph so much

because it's like compared to the average NBA player, six, six, six, seven, freaking nature, boom, boom.

He don't fit the bill.

He more of a regular size in the league. You know what I mean? He fit the bill. He more of a regular size in the league. I stand next to Steph, I'm like, damn, this nigga my height. You know what I mean? He ain't little, you know what I mean? But he maxed out his ability.

Okay, if I work harder than everybody else, I can max my abilities out and then I got a fair shake and a fair shot. So I love that about basketball too. Although I never reached them heights, It's like, I like the fact that maybe I could if I worked as hard.

You know what I mean?

I love the maybe I could from a team.

Not Steph, literally, but my point is like, yo, life is fair. We started on the same plane. You know what I mean? Had I worked as hard as you in basketball, it would have given me a shot to achieve what you achieve.

I didn't, therefore I don't. You know what I mean? And I can't, my time done passed me. You know what I mean?

That's logic, logically, we all start on the same plane. Like we all here. It's just when you put the emotional part to it, then you like, oh shit, I'm better than that nigga right there. Right, that's when you separated the two.

Which allowed you to see the daily growth and your advancements because now you see, first you said, I'm going, I think I can do this. If I put the work in, I can do this. Then you went to, I'm gonna do this. Like you went through it.

I'm just saying overall, the mindset of that, it just brings it back full circle because you actually went through with the plan, which makes all of this. I appreciate it. Thank you for saying that, it just brings it back full circle because you actually went through with the plan

which makes all of this.

I appreciate it. Right. Thank you for saying that, but what I want to clear up is when I was talking about what I was just talking about, I wasn't even talking about, I went and did anything. I'm damn near forgetting that I had a little,

two little stints where I actually went to play.

Oh, you did.

You know what I mean? But I ain't go out and like, you know what I mean? There's nothing that I accomplished that was other than just doing it and going for it. You know what I mean? There you go.

You know what I mean?

There you go.

That's major.

You talking about that. I wasn't talking about that before. Well, we are. It started there though. Right. It started at the very beginning of all of this when you said,

yo, you know what?

If I put the work in, I could do it.

By the way, it's just a switch of words that changes everything.

Okay.

And what my attitude was never, if I put the work in, I could. No. My attitude was, if I put the work in, could I?

Question mark.

No lie. Because at the time I said that, I was already out of time. I was already in my late 20s, early 30s. I ain't really start working out for that like pro journey I was going on till I was like, after I had kids, I'm like 33, damn near.

I'm already way behind the clock. But it was like, yo, how good would I be able to make it to if I really start putting the work in? You know what I mean? So never was it like, if I start working right now, I bet you I could know. It was like, yo, if I start working right now,

how good could I be? I don't give a fuck if that shit would have took me to being a star player in my lifetime fitness league? You know what I mean?

Like, but, but.

You was gonna find out.

I was gonna find out.

I was gonna find out.

You know what I mean?

And at the same time I was juggling music, so I never actually got a chance to really, really.

That's where I was about to go with you because it's passionate and I love it sitting here. like your side thing, like that's not even the main thing. How did you hold space for this? Cause you started that statement saying something, wow, you said I've never mastered anything.

Did you hear yourself say that? In basketball.

In basketball.

I was like, what?

I was on top, top of the top.

I was like, what?

Nah.

I'm like, what?

Sometimes I'll be talking and I'll be thinking,

you know what I mean? I'm glad we got that. Never mastered anything in the basketball space. I'm glad we made that explicitly clear. But as you were doing your thing through music and ball is still over, was it at all a battle in terms of like, I still got this dream that like.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, 100%. So you chose because music had your heart first? Okay, it depends on what time period you're talking about. Are you talking about when I actually was like, you know what, I'm gonna try to train and see if I could just, could I just go play on a pro team somewhere?

You talking about that journey or you talking about in my life period?

Let's go before that point, because by that point we had what, three albums from you already?

All right, in high school, I was my junior and senior year, I was on the varsity team. It was a accomplishment for me to start my senior year, right, for part of the year. The beginning of the season, me and the coach had a disagreement. Now I'm coming off the bench, and then by the end of the season, I got my spot back.

That was a big deal for me from where I was coming from in my basketball journey. That was a big deal. And I was like a contributing player, but I wasn't no star player. You know what I mean? Like if I got 12 points in a game, I'm checking the newspaper the next day to check the box score,

cut that motherfucking paper out, cause I'm like, damn, I hit 12.

You feel me?

Like, yo, I had 12. You know what I mean? But I was a dog in you know what I mean? I was a, you know, I'm that, I'm that damn near like a glue dude, but I'm not no star player. Now, mind you, that's my junior and senior year. The second after senior year was over, and I always had a thing too,

when the game started and them lights came on, and them cheerleaders start cheering, and the crowd start thought I could do, when them lights come on,

damn why this ball feel so heavy. Yo, I thought I had a handle.

Like yo, why does this ball feel like it's not connected to my hand? That's how it was, it's because them nerves hit. So this was me in high school. But mind you, like it was damn near like the second senior year was over and the season was done and we got put out to playoffs.

We was pretty good our senior year, but we wasn't like state title contenders or nothing. So the second we got put out to playoffs, we start having open runs. Now we having open runs in the gym and it's all of us still playing

and I'm doing some shit in the open runs. Mind you, the season just ended a week ago. I'm doing shit in the open runs where my coach, shout out to Coach Broadhurst, like, damn Cole, where the fuck was that at? Where was that shit at? But it was like all the weight from the season was off. Now I'm doing shit I ain't really did before.

So I'm saying my confidence and my abilities actually grew as I was a freshman in college and a sophomore in college. So I ain't try out my freshman year. I probably should have, but I didn't. I was just brand new to New York. I'm at St. John's. I'm like, I wouldn't even,

I'm just trying to adjust to being in New York and being a college student. I wasn't checking for when the tryouts was. I should have, you know what I mean? Looking back like, damn nigga, my abilities is just increasing. Now I'm much better than I was as a senior in high school

and even as a freshman. So it's, I don't know, 80 kids or something to try out or whatever, right? I have a, I'm killing the first day. In my mind, I'm like, oh, I'm having a great day. You know what I mean?

Like first day of tryouts, I'm like, I know I'm standing out. I just know, because it's like, at this time I was athletic, you know what I mean? I was like, all the things I said I was in high school, but now I can score the ball. I got an awkward game, but I can score the ball, boom, boom. So sure enough, they call 10 people back for the next day. I'm one of the 10 that they call back,

for callbacks or whatever. I go back to my room, I'm hype, I'm like, yo, I'm gonna make this team, you know what I mean? And so the next morning comes, and I don't know, I'm feeling conflicted throughout the day or whatever, cause mind you, I came to New York. Specifically, I came to college in New York so I could be around the music industry, so I could make it.

So now I'm conflicted because I'm like, yo, if you go and you fuck around and make this team tomorrow. You seen it. You gotta make a decision. I seen it because it was another freshman in my year. His name was Devin. Shout out to Devin.

I ain't seen him since college, but he made the team as a freshman, right? But he was a regular nigga like me. He probably played for his high school team. He was good, you know what I mean? But he made the team as a walk-on. And I got to see his life. Of course, we see the star athletes life. Everything about their life is basketball. You know what I mean?

Wade and niggas walk is basketball. Everything is like basketball. But Devin, and Devin, I seen a regular dude that was just with us on the strip, living a regular college life. Now all of a sudden, he got the same schedule

as these niggas. He up early, he ain't never around, he got practice, XYZ, and so I'm seeing him and some other people and I'm realizing like, yo, if you make this team tomorrow, your life is gonna be like this nigga. And I know myself, had I made that team, if I'd have fought around and made that team,

of course I'd have been a walk-on. Nigga, I would have got no clock, right? But how I'm wired, I would have got no clock my sophomore year. I might have got no clock my junior year. By the time I'm a senior, I know myself. I would have clicked, I would have worked.

Cause at this point I'm committed to basketball and I would have worked myself up to like at least getting some clock by my senior year.

And you know what's needed.

There you go. And then the way I'm wired, yeah I would have got some cock my senior year, but probably would've been minimal. I would've been like a great, you know what I mean? Great teammate. I would've been like what I was in high school. I scored four or six points, great,

but I'm gonna do the intangible things, boom, boom, boom. But I know myself. If I would've did that, what am I gonna do after college? G League. If I could even make a G league. I might not even have things in enough for D league. What I would have did was, I would have found me an agent,

I would have go played in some low level league in fucking Poland or something. I'd have become, I always looked at Jamario Moon.

Or something where it's like,

yo, this dude went and played all year.

Of course, of course.

Not that I would have been him. But my point is his story, the spirit of his story was he never gave up. You know what I mean? Of course he was a free athlete and a real hooper. I'm not nowhere near him. But my point is my ambition would have been like, yo, let me see, could I go to Polk? Can I work my way back up?

To first division.

Yeah, exactly. And no guarantee I would have made anything, but that's just, I remember I had set my alarm for 6 a.m. You know waking up 6 a.m. as a regular college student is crazy. But I set my alarm 6 a.m., I rode over,

looked at the alarm, and I sat there and I laid there, and I'm like, yo, you came up here for music. What are you gonna do? Like, if you go do this, you feel like you're really gonna make this team and it's gonna change the trajectory of your life. You can't do both things. They take too much energy. So what you gonna do?

I thought about it for a second and I reached over, I hit the fucking alarm and I rolled back to sleep. So to your point, that was the first time I ever decided, not because I was nice to some star athlete, but because I know if I'd have made that team that morning, I would have tried my best to become that on the longest journey you ever seen.

Nigga might not have tried to, might not have touched the league or anything until I was 30, but I wouldn't give a fuck, I would have tried.

And maybe never would have did that.

But that's just how I'm wired. I'm wired like, yo, let me try. So that's the first time I ever had to make the decision of like, let me go this route. You know, I chose music. Let me stay true to like really where my heart is at. That's the first time.

Wow. Wow.

Hell yeah.

That practice band at 6 a.m. probably helped.

Follow your heart.

Follow your heart.

That's what I'm saying.

If it was 1 o'clock p.m. we might've had a different story.

Yeah, you're right. We saved you from the league, man. Shout out to St. John's, by the way, going to the 2016. You know what I mean?

Shout out Coach Patino.

Patino, whoo!

Crazy, crazy.

Are you gonna try and hit DC this weekend?

Play Duke?

You say am I?

They play Duke this weekend.

He has plans.

Oh yeah, I'm on.

He's got plans.

Yeah, I'm on.

China. y'all met, but I don't know if you remember this, and I don't even know if this is the first time, actually, but we got the first time y'all hooped together.

We got some footage.

Research team.

Recently, yeah, yeah, yeah, right here.

Oh, it's the Scott.

It's the Scott, yeah.

Okay, I remember this.

Hey.

Oh man, this is, oh, look at. Ooh. I was getting shade. This is an angry at the world mellow, son. Okay. Yeah, I was mad this year right here. You look like you playing mad, son.

I was.

Is this sped up?

I was about to say, it has to be a little sped up.

This is sped up.

Cole got a couple buckets.

Where are you?

What is that?

I don't think I got no, yeah. That's your shirt, right? I wanna say. There it is. There you go. Okay. Okay.

Yeah, you can't do nothing with that.

Yeah.

What's that, Dennis McJones?

See, you see the past though, right?

Over the screen, over the flare pass.

Hey. Come on, man. Did he post you up right there?

Wow.

Jeez.

Wow, that's crazy. You remember that? Yeah, I remember, you know, I don't know that specific day, but I remember that right there, that clip right there. That's what you should have played. You should have made me look good on that one. Hey, go back, run that back, man.

Give me one, ooh, give me one.

Give me one, man.

Just keep re-looping that one, just go back. I'm not gonna have much more than that. But yeah, I do remember that day. Actually, that's the same day as that shot? Yeah, that's the same day. Yeah, I do remember that day. I was nervous.

Who else was on that court?

Trey, JR.

Yeah, JR.

Okay.

Yeah.

There was some other, I think some Brooklyn Nets guys was there. Yeah, Trey Young over there too. Yep. This is the part of the summer also, just context, that now we getting to the end of the summer. Yeah, so the ramp up phases, you can see the movement, you can see the sharpness, you can like hit the ramp up phase

and you working out before the runs and after runs and then you run in seven games. Like that was a ramp up phase.

Do you remember anything from him on the court

that you was like, all right?

No, so because he was with Chris Brickley, he was in the gym with Brick working out. Brick will always tell me, yo, watch, send me video, yo look at Cole, Cole working out, he really serious about this shit.

So weeks went by and he's still with Brick working out. He's like dedicated to this shit. I'm like, yo, bring the nigga to the runs. He like, yo, I'm gonna bring Cole. We gonna let him run because it's part of him,

part of the workout.

And that's how he got on the team. So when he played, I like, yo, Brick, yo, what he do? And Brick was like, yo, he gonna knock a corner three down. So I'm like, all right, Brick, listen, this is gonna be the teams that we gonna play

because him being on somebody else's team, on a bullshit team, it ain't gonna do nothing. I'd rather him be with one of us so he can really get the motion and everything. And that was that day right there.

And then you see the confidence behind him, you see the confidence grew though. That pull up day right there. And then you see the confidence, you see the confidence grew though. That pull up three is good. No, that day, no, that was a core memory for me, I ain't gonna lie, because when I was nervous as hell, I'm playing with real deal pros,

and even the guys that wasn't NBA guys was top, you know, the elite talent from what I remember. So I was nervous, but I had been, like my shot, my shooting in this era, from this video on to about the next year, year and a half, like I touched, at some point in time, I touched an elite, what it feels like

to have an elite shot, like no bullshit. Like even right now, how I'm shooting right now, I'm shooting the ball pretty good right now, but I remember then, and it's because I was putting in that work every single day. So with that said, even through my nerves,

when it came time to like slide to the corner and somebody found me, you know what I mean? Whether Mello found me, somebody else found me, I'm knocking that bitch down. And I'm like, oh shit, I'm cashing. I cast a few and then the biggest thing from that day to shit that went viral was the behind the back.

You know what I mean?

And the pull up.

Cause somebody was open, if you watch the video, you hear somebody like, like, oh right here Cole. Like behind the back, oh right here Cole. I'm like nah, fucking shot from deep. Boom, like that one.

Yeah, that was like a highlight.

I think Donovan Mitchell was here. There was some players there. They say the NBA speed is the first shocking thing when you're playing pro.

Did it catch you off guard?

Yeah. Yeah, it still catch me off guard. But yeah, for sure. And the strength, you know what I mean? But yes sir.

Little too much of the surprise, man. Shout out Chris Brickley. Shout out C. Br Brick, man. He's still getting after it. Yo, college basketball is nonstop. Big games, tight spreads, momentum swings every night. And now FanDuel is giving you a way to turn that energy into even bigger wins

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whatever gets you through the season. Show up in your bag every time DoorDash has what you need to win the watch party. DoorDash, in your bag all season long. Let's get to the fall off. Let's get to the fall off. Let's get to it. The fall off has been talked about for years

with just everything that's been going on the last few years. Did it feel more like a celebration or something that you really had to prove?

Nah, I don't know if it wasn't a celebration necessarily. It was a, when you say prove, like I had to prove to myself. To yourself, yeah. it wasn't a generation necessarily, it was a, when you say prove, I had to prove to myself. Yes, because you gotta think the fall off, it's an album 10 years in the making. I never thought it would take 10 years,

but I had a mission in mind of where I was trying to get to ability wise and skill wise. My mission 10 years ago was, can you get better? Because 10 years ago I was coming off my highest performing album, I was coming off my highest, most successful tour, like a highlight of my life.

And I felt myself like feeling the urge to like get comfortable, you know what I mean? And I'm like, damn, this is how that shit be happening. You know what I mean? And I'm like, damn, this is how that shit be happening. You know what I mean? This is how a lot of people fall off. And I didn't have that title at the time.

And I wasn't even saying that word, but I'm just like, yo, this is where like a decline can happen and the same thing can happen in sports. You know what I mean? Where it's like, yo, get a certain level of money. You're resting your laurels a bit. Yeah, exactly.

You just start to like chill. It's like, yo, you're not going as hard as what you used to go. I could feel that for myself. It wasn't a long time, but I was in tune with myself enough to catch it and be like, oh.

And I had a real conversation with myself, which was like, yo, you know you could just retire if you wanted to. And my thought was like, yeah, I know I could, but nah, not right now. Cause I got something else I wanna do. What do you wanna do?

I wanna damn near defy gravity. Like I wanna like go against gravity. Gravity is saying, as I get older and more successful, I'm supposed to get my pen supposed to get less sharp. You know what I mean? I'm supposed to care less. I'm supposed to like push myself less. So the fall off, I didn't have the title at that time, but it became like an idea of like, yo, there's an album for this. There's an album where I reach my top abilities.

You know what I mean? Like at a time when I was supposed to be, Ben fell off. You know what I mean? Now I reached my top ability. So the rest of the years, I didn't know it would take so long, but the rest of the years was just me working to get to the point of this album, you know what I mean? To get my pen to that level, to get like, and I had to fall in love with this shit mad

times along the way, you know what I mean? One, it wasn't a celebration. If anything, it was a relief. Hell yeah, nigga, I did it, finally. But secondly, it was proven to myself, like, damn, you really did do that. You know what I mean? I look at the feature run I had and all of these verses that was coming out and all of the other projects that came while working on the fall off, and I'm like, damn, you did what you said you was gonna do. You just didn't know it would take you this long. Thank God it took you this long

because it birthed all of this other shit that I don't know if I would have been able to put all of that shit out had I not had the bigger mission on my mind.

Indeed. That's hard though. When you, to follow the plan for one, right? To follow your plan when everybody is probably don't see, is against your plan, right? Or don't see your plan, right?

Because it's not like he's out there giving his plan up. Like he's building a plan behind closed doors. So that for one, that's a lot of respect when it comes to that, to stick with your plan. For two, you sent a message. You had to look at yourself and say,

nigga, and identify the fall off, right? There's a lot of people who's in that situation, in any genre, any lane, any industry, and can understand this could be a fall off, but still go through with the fall off. To be able to stop it when you acknowledge it,

oh shit, this is what it feel like, I can see how niggas can fall off. And then to be like, nah, fuck that,

they want me to fall off.

I'm gonna go and defy gravity. I say that because there's a lot of similarities with what I went through, right? And being in Houston after that situation is like, you know what man, Melo you done played 16 years in this league, you done did it,

you done, but I ain't ready to go yet. You get what I'm saying? So now you come back and like, you know what, I'm gonna come back and show everybody and defy what the fuck y'all was talking about that I couldn't do. The shit that you said I couldn't do,

I'm gonna show you that I can do it. So when you talk about the fall off, and it was a situation where I had to think about, nigga, I'm just gonna be complacent with this shit, like fuck it, I'm gonna just lay here, I ain't going to the gym, I don't wanna work out,

I'm gonna take some time off. Time off is three months, turned into six months, turned into a year, turned into two years. That shit happened so quickly, man. So I'm sitting here listening to you, I'm like, damn, I can really relate to something taking 10 years to bring a masterpiece project when people wanted this eight years ago, seven years ago.

Like it's on me to make this project in 10 years. And the fall off is not the fall off, it's the concept of what it could be. So pay attention to yourself is the point I'm trying to say. We got to pay attention to yourself.

But Cole, everything you've said, and just sitting here chopping it with, you are one to give yourself your own parameters, goals. And I know what the original intention was for this project now that it's done you've given it life are you satisfied? thousand percent yes yes am I satisfied with what? like if if you were to ride off into the sunset yes this was it? yeah was this it? yes no I'm not saying if we

just yeah like would I be good with this? Because as I'm listening to you, every time you achieve something, the goal shifted. Yep. So this was, yeah, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna give it 10 years, I'm gonna give it my heart

and soul.

Now it's out, we love my, relit my love. So what I can say is like, it's out and if I, if I, if six years go by and nobody heard another album from me, cause it's just like, yo, it didn't come. I'd be, I'd be cool because it's like, yo, this exists for me as, as the last thing that y'all heard. However, what I didn't know what happened was me getting to this point right now, the beautiful thing is I'm hella inspired. I'm in love with this shit. I'm not saying I'm going to go make an album, you know what I mean?

But I'm not on some like, all right, I did it, I'm done, boom, boom. No, I got visions and ideas, not for my own shit, but really on some production shit. I'm excited about that, about helping. I'm excited about, I spent so long on me that it's like, I haven't had the ability, I've helped along the way, you know what I mean? It's people out there that could give their version of me helping and diving in, but it was never to the ability that I know I could really help because I was thinking about my own shit.

And while juggling family life, fatherhood, while juggling basketball, still trying to stay in shape, while juggling all of this. So this, at least this being out and being the album that it's like, yo, I played that shit this morning. I went to the gym this morning, I had to get my lift in,

I'm playing the album. And I'm just thinking like, bro, you still playing this bitch. I was playing this shit months before the world got it. Now it's out and I'm still playing it. Like, so that's the contentment right there. It's like, wow, you really made some shit that you a fan of that can hold you over for a long time. You know what I mean?

And because I don't have to worry about what's my next thing gonna be? Oh, what's my next project? For so long, even when I was dropping the All Season, KOD, For Your Eyes Only, Might Delete Later, I had this thing on my mind. Imagine you drop an album and you really just like, all right, that's out, but I'm still thinking about this other one that I'm working on.

You know what I mean? So this is the first time where I don't have anything and I can lock in on the extra curricular shit that I want to dive into while I'm feeling inspired and in love.

I love that.

How did you compartmentalize that then? Because if you were putting out all these albums and you still had the fall off in mind, right? And again, sidebar, you've had a lot of proximity to a lot of great MCs and seeing their quote unquote fall off, right?

How did you sort of compartmentalize, like okay, this is for KOD, but Fall Off is still XYZ.

Like how did that process go about? I had to one, see if it reached the bar. Did this song that I just made, I love this song that I just made, you know what I mean? Does it reach the bar of the Fall Off that I'm setting for myself?

You know what I mean, number one. And then number two, does it work conceptually? You know what I mean? Like it's still, I mean my album, the fall off ain't about, the reason why I started making a fall off, the album is not about that.

My album ain't about like, oh, I don't want, I didn't want to fall off and I wanted to get better. Okay, there was a lot of songs that that uh one I liked a lot, but ain't necessarily reach the bar I love these songs though But it's like if I'm telling the truth you don't belong on the fall off you don't really deserve to go on the fall off

There's some that I made that did deserve, they reached the bar, they did deserve to make the fall off. But timing wise, I might have felt more called to put it out earlier. Me and Middle Child, it's a song off the off season called The Climb Back. That was a fall off song. The Climb Back, it's like, oh, that's a fall off actually finish this album, I don't want to wait this long for this song to be heard. I want this song out now, so I'll sacrifice a climb back off my fall off album list and throw it over here. So how do I compartmentalize?

I just had to have honest conversation with myself about like, yo, what's this for? Just trust that.

A lot of the album is very personal. You know what I mean? There's a lot of songs on there that you're talking about people that we don't even know, but like through context, we get to know. You know what I mean?

Like there's some dude in North Carolina that you had an issue with that was like, Now I want to know what was going on. Was that, was that part of it? Cause was that sort of like the overarching theme of the album of just being more personal and where you were when you were 29?

It wasn't my original intention. Like I said, my original intention was just to get better. Okay. And then through getting better, what spills out? It's certain stories that spill out. And then I started to see like, oh, okay, it takes shape.

I'm like, oh, what is this? Oh, this is like, I'm seeing the story that I'm telling through these songs. I'm seeing like, I don't know how to describe it, but it's like, it might take me, this happens when I write a verse.

I might write a verse and like, I might not know where this song is going, but I'm trusting the process. I'm trusting the words that if I get these words out and just keep following the words, the song will take shape. Then by the eighth bar, I'm like, oh, this is a story about such and such. Or, oh, like Love Yours, the song Love Yours.

I didn't know what that song was going to be about when I start, right? wrote it exactly how you hear it. And at a certain point I was like, oh, I see what I'm saying. I see what the message that's trying to be delivered. So, oh, so you know, you make enough songs. Now it's like, oh, I see the shape that this is taking. This is a story of like me going back home at the height of my career.

You know what I mean? And like all of these things that I deal with when that happened, at this time in my life when I was at a crossroads. The album is like, the first disc, Disc 29, is like me at a time before I got married, when I was at a crossroads in my life with three things. One, my girlfriend at the time, now wife, who had been my girl for a very long time

at that point. Two, this craft that I've been, my other love, it's like three loves of my life that both discs are about. But at 29, I'm at a crossroad with the love of my life, the woman, the love of my life, the craft that I've been doing since I was 12 years old,

you know what I mean? And then three, the love of my life, the city that raised me, birthed me, not birthed me because I was born in Germany, but raised me since I was one years old, like helped me adjust and adapt to the world, taught me, you know what I mean,

scolded me, like all of these things. And you know, everybody know like my songs is like, from the come up, I'm putting on for the city you never heard about in Carolina that you never heard about in Carolina that you never heard about. Everybody know I had nothing but a love, love relationship. But on Disc 29 at 29 years old,

you find me at a time where even the city that I love, I'm looking at different. I'm not appreciating any of those three things, those three loves on the first disc, the way that I have previously in my life and the way that I do on Disc 39.

You find me on 29 at a crossroads with all of those. It could have went bad with all of those. I could have made a bad mistake with that one. You know what I mean? Everybody know that one that, you know, the one that's supposed to be your wife.

So many people got stories of that, but sometimes she don't become your wife. Sometimes you trick it off and you fuck it up. You know what I mean? So like, I was at a crossroads with that. I was at a crossroads with this craft. I told you, I was like, I could retire right now. I'm kind of over this J. Cole shit anyways. Tired of rapping about myself.

Like that's how I was feeling at the time. I'm tired of this box that this motherfucker. Somebody always got something to say. You know what I mean? Like, niggas hating, boom, boom, boom. I'm feeling like the weight and the burden of like survivor's guilt or whatever they, you know,

whatever they call it. So I'm rambling, but that out, that's what I realized I was saying. Got you. It's impossible to ramble on this show.

I was just gonna say, you weren't rambling at all.

You can't talk to me on the show.

You're not rambling at all.

There's a couple songs I wanna ask you about off the album and specific lyrics also. Like on the Fall Off is Inevitable, you're talking about the so-called goats or whatever. Not saying that was a shout out, J, or whatever, but a lot of eyebrows were raised. I was like, what was that about?

You know what's crazy is when the song dropped and people started saying what they saying, it was the first time I was like, oh shit.

You ain't know, I didn't mean it like that,

but I didn't realize they would take it like that. But I'm like, oh shit, why you say it like that? But it was not the intention. In my mind, it was just like, yo, so-called king. Like, they do call, nigga, I'd call him a king. You know what I mean? Like, so-called, and I feel like there was a biggie line

in my mind, and it's like they said that, I was like, oh shit, that can be taken a certain type of way.

But hell no.

Like.

Especially cause, you know what I mean, you're an underbashed Nas fan,

let Nas down is a big record, you know what I'm saying?

of this rap thing that I swear to you, sir. That's the line where it's like, I'm a young, just like Kobe trying to take MJ's spot or something, like trying to go at MJ. That's the line that you could talk about and say something about that I swear to you, sir.

It's like, of course, it's just me being a kid at that time in the rhyme, I'm putting you in the shoes of me as a teenager or whatever, that's me saying like, yo, one day I'm gonna get there. One day I'm gonna surpass you. And not just him, I was looking at everybody like that. You know what I mean? Like, so, but that line in particular,

that phrase, so-called, I didn't mean it no type of way, but when people said it, I feel you. Have y'all spoken since? Like y'all still have a relationship with him? Nah, we ain't spoken since then, but that wouldn't be the reason why we not speaking.

You know what I mean?

I doubt he would feel the way about that.

I was about to ask if you got tickets to the Yankee show.

Cause this is crazy, right?

No, I'm hot because,

he gonna be gone. It's on the first day of my tour. Long show. They go get us on. I'm like hot. It's a hot beef, son.

You know.

Bro, I'm sad. I'm gonna go to the Roots joint because I can't miss that. You know what I mean? But I'm sad. Those is my two favorite J albums.

That's a fact. Reasonable Doubt and Blueprint.

Of course, he got many fire albums, But them two specifically, I'm like, I'm hurt. You've had proximity to some of the greatest of all time. You know what I mean? A lot of the concept of the fall off is seeing their trajectories and all that type of stuff. But what did being around that level of greatness, especially during your feature run,

when you was just going around, just hopping on people's songs, all that type of stuff, what did being around different types of skill level and greatness sort of shape and teach you about your own craft

and making these albums.

I missed the first part of the question.

So the first part I want to say is, early in the show, I said, the fall off, you talked about, oh, this is how people get complacent. This is how folks feel like they're off. But you've had proximity to greatness.

You mentioned Jay, we mentioned Nas, then Big 3, obviously, Yay, everybody. Anybody who's been anybody, you've been around. And then there was a period before the fall off where you were just hopping on records, doing feature work, new dudes, old dudes, whoever. How did that process all together of collaboration

sort of shape your last project?

I think the feature run out of all of that, because even the proximity you're talking about, it's like, I don't have a creative proximity with those greats that you're talking about. I just have a fan proximity. I'm just a fan that got to get close at times,

you know what I mean? But it's like, if I never would have met Jay or Nas, they still would have fed, if my proximity was only that of a fan, they still would have fed my skill and my hunger, you know what I mean?

And like, they would be the reason why I am where I am or I got to wherever I got. Even if I didn't sign to Jay, he would be the reason why I made it to where I made it because he gave me so much without knowing he gave me so much in terms of, first of all, ambition.

Jay fed a lot of our ambition, you know what I mean? Showing us what's possible, showing us like, he just embodied like a, you can do it, I did it mentality, you know what I mean? But beyond that, then you have a skill level and a craft level that I get from all of them.

But to answer your question, the feature run did a lot for me actually being able to accomplish what I accomplished on the fall off because it's like the feature run tested me. Basically the start of the feature run was me saying like, yo, let me just say yes to any time a feature come.

That was my challenge to myself. One of my ways to try to get better, I was like, yo, when a feature come, yo, just come out my back in the days.

Go and play them with no features.

My damn near, my instant reaction to a feature coming through, especially if I don't know the artist, I'm just like, I just really don't have an interest. We don't got no relationship. I was kind of like closed off. But a couple features started coming through the pipeline and I'm like, yo, let me just say yes. Like, let me just challenge myself to say yes to everything that comes through the door, no matter who it is damn near. And that shit, it challenged me to work with different types of artists,

get on different types of beats. One minute I got to rap with Royce the Five-Nine, you know what I mean? Next minute I got to rap with 21 Savage. Next minute I got to rap with Lil Durk. Next minute I got to rap... It challenged me to, I don't know, to be more versatile. I pride myself on versatility anyways, but it's sharpened my versatility. Where it's like, yo, I gotta go show up in many different arenas. It's like a track athlete.

I gotta go do mad events. I gotta go to the dunk contest, the three point contest, the skills challenge. You know what I mean? It was like that for me.

Okay.

So, why don't more artists have that mentality? Right, because on the flip side of that coin, there's a lot of artists who do not like to do those features like that, who's not willing to allow themselves to jump out there like that

because of the pushback that they may get from those features, right?

Like the purist, like if I work with such and such, it's gonna look lame or it's gonna look a certain type of way.

Yeah, it's just like, some people just be so, like you just sat there and said, I had to look at myself and challenge myself to say yes to just features that's coming and I've been so closed off from that. Not because you're not ready, your penmanship ain't, you're not feeling the person. Most artists is turning those features down

because they feel personally that they not really ready for that feature. You get what I'm saying?

So they don't, the other person, you not, the artist is not ready for that feature. You know, you're right. I think it's a brand thing. It's like, ooh, that word. You know what I mean?

It's like a brand thing, like of your brand I gotta keep it I gotta keep it quiet and mysterious and I can't just be you know I mean and I get it I don't know available yeah I don't want to just be too accessible and I understand that because that was probably me back in the days too like I don't know but to me what I what I get out of also community mm-hmm like what I would I link with artists you know I mean it's just like, nah, fuck with him. Now we connected. We had a great conversation, randomly.

We talking about random shit. Just this hour conversation. Now I feel like I done downloaded your story. You know what I mean? I fuck, that's what happened with Savage, 21 Savage. First time we talked was probably at Made in America.

Jay, I think maybe Jay was performing or something, but backstage at Made in America, we talk, and it's just like, I'm gonna fuck with this dude. You know what I mean? Like, I didn't even know what to expect. Not that I expected anything, but I fucked with what I got, you know what I mean?

And then he ended up sending me a song. The song he sent me was more like some shit that I think he thought I would like. Instead of like, and I'm like, sometimes it's the hard part too, telling an artist like, cause I'm gonna be a hundred with you.

Like, yo, I don't think this the one for us. You know what I mean? Like, yo, I think there's a better song for us. You know what I mean? I told at 21, I feel like Lowkey, he probably was like, this nigga trying to play me. You know what I mean? He didn't say this. He probably was like, all right, cool, no doubt,

but he never sent me another joint. So I think low key, he probably thought that was my way of trying to flee him or something. When really, it wasn't. I was genuinely like, this some shit they gonna expect me to be on.

You know what I mean? I wanna do the shit that they don't want you to send me the joint that you think is in my world, I want to come to your world and that's the real test for me. I know I can do what you already think I can do.

Like I'm doing it.

I'm doing it. You know what I mean? That's why you came to me for that's how the A Lot joint came to be. But I don't even remember the original question, but shit.

Okay, but now I got another question. How many features didn't work because of that energy? You was like, it's not about you not stretching yourself. It's about you being like, that's just not the one.

Not many, because I usually figured it out with the person. When it was like an initial like, y'all don't think that's the one? We usually ended up finding the one. There's a few people that come to my mind where I'm like, ah, fuck, I didn't get to do that

with such and such and such.

There are a few. But the overwhelming majority, we figured it out. And I will say the Dirk joint is a joint where I actually was telling him, I don't think that's the one. Because it was so positive that once again, I'm like, yo, they expect me on this.

I think they want to get on the other shit.

Yeah, like, oh.

Got the kids on the chorus.

It was so positive. But he actually convinced me, he was so sure. Usually if I tell somebody that, they'll be like, all right, cool, they will find another one or something. He was like, bro, trust me, please.

And so I'm like, all right, let me give it a couple more listens. And that's how that happened. He actually pushed back. You know what I mean?

And that's one of the bigger features that I run too. That's how I play it every day for sure. For sure.

That's like Andy.

That's this Andy.

This generation. You say what? This generation Andy.

Nah, for sure.

I gotta talk about the big three conversation. I watched your conversation with Cam earlier today.

You didn't watch the conversation with Cam. Unfortunately, you watched clips. I watched clips of the conversation with Cam, unfortunately you watched clips. I watched clips of the conversation with Cam. I'm like, man, shout out to Cam, but man, just drop the whole thing. No, because the joint don't come out till like tomorrow night, I think, on TV, and then they put it out on YouTube the next day.

Gotcha. But in my mind, I'm like, bruh, because even the clips, I seen the clips. No context in the clip and they're clipping the clip. They're editing the clip. Oh man, you know what I mean? So it's like, yo, in my mind I'm just like, no, you didn't see, you saw a clip where they then edited.

Well, there's one clip we talk about, you know, you spoke to Drake and Kendrick since the whole thing has went down. And there's definitely a few lines, few songs, few things I just want to get your perspective on because again, we haven't seen the full video yet. But there's a line that Kendrick said, you know, during, I want to say during Not Like Us when he said, you know, dickhole foul, I don't know why you pretending.

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I honestly don't know either. Like, I can't tell you. Okay. I don't know. You know what I mean? But, you know, shit.

I couldn't tell you. If I could tell you, I would tell you.

The relationship has definitely had to shift, had to be different than it was, you know, 10 years ago, a couple years ago now.

Talking about the relationship? On my side, no, I actually don't know. On my side, absolutely not. You know what I mean? Like, I feel the same way, but I can't, a relationship is two ways, so I actually couldn't sit here and tell you, like, I don't know how they feel about, you know, about me.

You know what I mean? I can genuinely tell you that.

But for me, it's the same. So if there was an olive branch to be reached between all three, you know what I'm saying? Like, would you be the one?

All three?

Yeah, yeah.

Like all ways of the three?

Yeah, I mean, I kind of feel like it would connect the tissue between the two.

I would love that, but I don't.

I don't know if Drake and Kendrick ever found that way,

but you know what I mean? But I don't know how, maybe in time or something, you know what I mean? Not speaking for myself, I'm just putting myself in their shoes, just like, I don't know.

That's a, you know what I mean?

That's like, get a life.

I don't know, and maybe they, you know, I don't know.

I mean, listen, we've lived through a lot of great rap beefs over the years and almost all of them, we've eventually saw some sort of reconciliation, some sort of something when they're together. We've seen it with Jann. We've seen it with Jeezy Gooch. We've seen it with a lot of people.

And you'd love to see it, but again.

Yeah, I would love to see it. It would be a beautiful day, you know what I mean, for hip hop. And I think for the world, if we got to see that moment, you know what I mean, I think, but, I don't know, if I had to put money on it.

Don't see it.

Not no time soon. Maybe not at a time where we all like, that shit'll heal the world right now.

Yeah, I think so.

You know what I mean, like that shit'll do a lot right now. You know what I mean? Like that shit will do a lot right now. Like five years from now, I don't know if it's, we gonna love to see it at any time. But right now it's like, yo.

Cause every combination of the all three made incredible music together, no matter when it was.

You know?

Not for sure. I mean, yes, I agree with that.

Okay.

Yeah.

Cole is in Fayetteville, man. That's basically what he said, man. I'm in the Civic, man.

I'm in the Civic, man.

I can even in addition to that, man, just because it's a conversation that, you know, everybody has talked to death for the past two years. And, you know, people just pick up bread crumbs throughout lyrics and throughout songs about just the relationship between the three. I think on Evil Ways, he says something like, you know, Drake is in his devil state or something.

I didn't say devil, I said, I don't know where to lie. Demon phase.

Demon phase, that's the one.

That's the one, my boy says demon phase, you understand and all that type of stuff. And it's like, you know, all three of y'all, man, I don't think there's an era of music in the past two decades without the three of y'all. You know what I'm saying? And now, post-Beef, post-NotLikeUs,

post all this type of stuff, the dust has sort of settled, you know, and you still don't really see if there's a way themselves together, but Ja Rule was on the show a few weeks, a few months ago, and we talked about it, and he was just like, you know, he doesn't think beef is really good for hip hop. He said like, if we sort of take ourselves away from it

and just look at everything that sort of happened since then, he's like, I don't think it's in that positive. Well, what are your thoughts, just as far as like

everything since then? I feel unqualified to even.

Oh, stop it.

No, I'm not playing with you. Nah, because it's like, yo, but you talking about the person that in the whole situation, apologize. That's my, what's gonna go down is my participation in that event.

Right.

Yeah, that's true.

If I had my shoes on the other feet of somebody else, I don't wanna hear my opinion on whether I think beef is good or bad for hip hop. It's like, bruh, it don't matter. Honestly, who gives a fuck, actually? You know what I mean?

If we really wanna keep it real, but definitely who gives a fuck about my opinion? That's how I feel. It's like, I would feel crazy to even sit up here and go, yeah, I think it's great for the culture,

but nigga, you apologize.

And I would feel crazy to sit up here and go, nah, I think it's a net negative for the culture, nigga, you apologize. Like, I'm not interested in hearing, I'm not interested in respect that. I mean, listen, I feel like as a fan of yours, I think even when it first happened

and when you backed out and people were seeing all the crazy stuff being said about each other, a lot of people respected your foresight to just be like, you know what? I'm gonna fall back from this. This doesn't seem like it sits right with my spirit. I saw you talk on the Deska as well, and you mentioned sort of like the process

you went through with your wife and everybody before that apology took place, man. And it's just, I don't know, I feel like you're not giving yourself enough credit. I think people do want to kind of hear where you stand off of it,

because you had that foresight to be like, this doesn't sit right with me.

Even if it's about a different- Yeah, but that's all I can speak on. I can only speak on how I felt at the time. And it wasn't foresight in the sense of like, I knew anything that was happening. I just knew how I felt. It wasn't foresight, it was hindsight, if anything. It was like, oh God, I can just feel how I feel. You know what I mean?

On my heart and on my spirit. that I knew I had no clue how that shit was gonna go. Like, to tell you the truth, I actually feel like how I probably thought it would go was a little more regular than even how it went. It outdid anything I could have have imagined, you know what I mean? In terms of like how tense that shit got

and how entertaining it got to the world. You know what I mean? It's like, I couldn't have foresaw none of that shit. Like I just knew how I felt. So that's all I can speak to. Even me earlier speaking to them, whether they get back together or whatever,

where they quit, I can't speak to that. Like even me saying, I don't think so. It's like, even that's silly. It's like, what I do. I can't speak. And yes, you're right. Does the world probably want to hear that?

Maybe, you know what I mean? But I don't want to give it. And all it's going to do is feed the algorithm scavengers that fucking whole existence is predicated off of going through this interview where we saying a lot of real shit

and just looking for the thing that's going, that they audience, that don't give a fuck about none of us on these couches can grab and have a conversation about. So it's like, I'm not giving y'all that, fuck out of here. Like that.

I love that.

I got a different perspective. I said this earlier, like in another episode when that shit was going on. And it was like the apology, right? And he's stamping what I felt at that time because it's like, yo, I'm not, my part, I'm manning up to my part and what I did.

I'm taking ownership as a man, I'm taking ownership as somebody who was trying to, I got other shit in my life that's going on. I got family, I got shit that's going on that I ain't really, he said he didn't know what was going on.

I didn't know that shit was gonna play out the way it played out. So you know what? I'mma bow out gracefully. I'm leaving out of here because that shit ain't got nothing to do with me. going through this journey, I'm gonna say, yo, I apologize for any part that I played

and the bullshit that's going on. For me, that's honorable. Like, however way some people take this shit, it's very honorable to just, in the heat of the battle like that. Now, the competition part of it is like,

nah, Cole shouldn't have fucking apologized. Cole, we wanna hear Cole shoot them shots, boom, boom, boom, you can't shoot and then take the bullet back. You get what I'm saying? That was the image, the message at that point in time, the responses that was coming back. But when you get through the weeds and all of that shit, I'm my own man at the end of the day.

If I can stand on what I stand on, if I can see my vision, which I ain't see the 10 year vision for the fall off, but if I know my vision and I know my journey, I'm here to get better, I ain't here to bring the bullshit, I'm alleviate myself out of this. That takes more power and more vulnerability

to make that decision in the heat of what the fuck was going on. And be ready to take what comes with it. And be ready to stand on it.

Right, the other part of it though too is like, too you said it, you didn't realize how entertaining it would be, right? Like for all of us that consume, it's an entertaining but there's a real person, a real artist, you know what I'm saying?

Like that is-

When I say entertaining, entertaining to the world.

To the world, correct. but there's a real person going through this. And I think when I think of your body of work, and I'm gonna tell you this Cole, I don't do a whole lot of new folks, you one of my artists that I will turn on the new stuff. I don't turn on new stuff too often, but when you drop something, I would check it out. And just listening to you on this couch today,

we've grown up together, right? Like it's, it is a story. And to make that decision in that moment was mature. That shows growth, right? So I remember when that happened and I was like,

what are y'all talking about?

I appreciate the words that y'all saying, thank you. But I also feel a little conflict, because like, yo, there's no part of me that did it. Y'all could be up here like, Cole, I was disappointed in you and boom, boom, boom. And I'd be like, man, I respect that, I appreciate it. You know what I mean?

It wouldn't affect me. No affirmation or praise. There's a lot of people that have said that to me, no, Cole, I respect what you did and I do appreciate it, but just know, there's no part of me that want a pat on the back for that. It's cool because all I did, and I did Cam interview, you've seen clips, but you ain't seen it. Me and Cam go all the way,

he asked me and I gave him everything. I have a hard time not being honest, like if you ask me a question, I'm damn near a dangerous interview because it's like, I feel like I gotta answer that shit with what's in my heart. And I gave Cam all of that, you know what I mean? So I don't wanna say the exact same things that I said on Cam on here, because it's there.

But so by the time this come out, people would have already seen that. But what I will say And for all of y'all, it's like, yo, I didn't just do that because it was like sitting wrong in my spirit, it didn't feel right. I did that because I was genuinely wrong. And this is why I was wrong.

I didn't just do it because like, ah man, y'all just don't feel right. No, I was in the wrong. And this is why I's the first wrong. But the wrong that supersedes that is the reason why I did the wrong.

The reason why I did the wrong was the wrongest wrong of all. I did that wrong, misrepresented myself, boom, boom, boom, because I was afraid that if I didn't come out and do something at least, say something, like at least try to make it seem like I'm doing this,

then this thing that I've been working on for eight years at the time, this album that I've been working on and was done at that time, will come out and they not going to let me put it out.

The timing, yeah.

They going to say, nope, we don't want to hear it. Nah, nigga, you still ain't addressed, dude. We don't wanna hear that shit. So my fear of fucking up the public reception of this thing that I've been working so hard on, like looking back, I give myself a little grace. Like I understand why I had the fear. I've been working on it for a man long

and I was also tired and exhausted. And my thought was, oh no, this shit that I've been doing that I'm so proud of, if I put this out without saying something, I did it for nothing, damn it. It's a bad, and that's a bad thought. That's a wrong thought because the true clear thought

in that moment is, man, who gives a fuck? Like this shit ain't about that, it's about this. The clear thought would have been, man, whatever they got going on, even if I was more directly involved in that, even if Kendrick Lamar would have came out of his mouth and been like, fuck J. Cole, boom, boom, boom. Even if that was the case, a clear version of me would have been like, man, let him have that. And he didn't do nothing close to that.

And I still let the fear of what the perception would be on this album dictate my next move, which was a dumb move. Because now you got to stand behind this forever, nigga. You got to stand by, you got to go pretend like this really represents you. Unless, unless, and I wasn't thinking this until an hour before I went on stage, unless you now come and correct how you feel to the same world that you misrepresented

yourself, and to him as well, you know what I mean? Let me let y'all know exactly who I am, because I fucked up, you know what I mean? I fucked up and folded under pressure. And there's a lot even more into the story where I could tell you the week leading up to that song coming out. And like the conversations that was had

and the back and forth I had internally and ultimately fear won. You know what I mean? That's all I can really tell you in a nutshell. The fear won that day, but it didn't win two days later.

You know what I mean? Like the real me won. And then to your point, I got to take everything that come with it. And guess what?

Your competitiveness, the competitiveness. That's what I'm getting. I'm hearing the competitiveness got you to that point of, I got to say something. Because where you, because there's no way you can hear that competitively and not wanna sharpen my pen too.

And like, I got, I have to say something back. I have to, I have to respond some way, somehow.

No, I can't say it was competitive. Competitively is different though. Competitive is like, I wish I could tell you it was competitiveness because competitive is another like, yo, me competitive is what the fuck I've been doing for the past 10 years.

That's me competitive. Me sharpening my pen, me popping up on this song, that song, my own songs and doing what I do, that's competitive to me. I wish I could tell you that competitiveness made me do that, put out that song. That wasn't competitive, nigga, that was straight fear. That was a bozo move. Because actually I knew as I'm doing that song and as I'm recording that song and I'm putting it out,

man, this is just enough to look like I did something. And that's my man. He going to probably give me one or two lines. He might give me a little verse. Boom, boom. And I was willing to just take that. I just wanted to get past this moment so I could get to the album. So like, that's not competitive. That's far from competitive. Nigga, that's, I wish I could tell you

it was competitive in this. I'll be a little more proud, you know what I mean, if that was competitive, but that wouldn't look like that.

My comp- Would you have decided differently if the order was out and then all this happened, would you let your competitive spirit sort of take over? Or the album was that important to get out first?

It depends though, because like, it's also weird because I know how I feel about this man. You know what I mean? And I know how he feel about me, at least through our communications and our dealings. It's like, damn, I know how we feel about each other,

so I know it's not actually a problem there. So what does competitiveness look like when you know you ain't got a problem with somebody? But then you also, at the same time, are lumped in with somebody that you might actually have a problem with. You know what I mean? And I'm not lumped in

because you necessarily said, fuck me, but that's a great area in itself. So to your point, you're basically asking like, yo, if the fall off was out, and then that happened, would my competitiveness had like kicked in or would I have been more willing to like, quote unquote, compete? Well, then it depends on what you call competition. Cause it's like, yo,

would I have been willing to take it where they took it? With him or him? Absolutely not. If that's competitiveness, I for sure would have lost. You know what I mean? Because I wouldn't have been willing to take it there.

And if I was willing to take it there, it only would have been because I was worried about what the world was gonna say. So then even if I did take it there and somehow demolish or boom, boom, boom, I still lost. Because my heart would be feeling like,

ah, nigga, you did that so that people would say that you better? You know what I mean? Like, that's, so it depends on what you define as competitive.

So in all this, what's your personal compass? What it feels like on your spirit?

100%, my heart.

Period. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'm either clear enough to listen and be in tune with what's on my heart and to go with that, or I'm in a place where I'm not present enough, shit is cloudy, I'm stressed, I'm living in more fear than usual, and I can't tap in with what my heart is actually saying, or what my spirit is actually saying. And in that confusion, you liable to do some fugazi shit.

You know what I mean? Like, so, but my compass is this, like, yo, how does that feel? And guess what? Emotions are like valid, like fear is valid, anger is valid, all of these are valid things,

but to move off of them and then make a decision off of them, that's when it's like, oh, okay, you enter a territory where you go from feeling like the victim to actually being in the wrong. You know what I mean? Like, even if the world don't say it, you know in your heart, you ain't have to take it like that

and you don't have to take it to that level. And I speak about for myself, I'm just talking about on an everyday level. People justify the fuck shit they do to somebody else because that person did something to them first. You know what I mean?

It's like, and they always gonna be like, yeah, but they boom, boom, boom. So you justify it in your mind, but it's like, yo. Now you acting out.

What would Jesus do?

You know what I mean? What would God do? What's the actual way to move? You know what I mean? So not saying we all perfect, because we far from it. We all just trying to figure this thing out.

But I'll be trying to God that's forever, and how would he move? Not the version of me that's trapped in my ego right now and I'm like a little boom, boom. How would the real version of me move?

So do you think there's-

Have a moral compass, motherfucker.

That's what I'm saying.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, so just listening to those records though, I feel like there was so many songs where you're just like, I'm the best, I'm the best, I'm the best. And correct me if I'm wrong, just listening as a fan, it almost just felt like this was gonna be friendly competition between three of the best of an era that we've never seen before,

and then there's the one super left. There was so many songs where you, you know what I'm saying, like, you know, it's not big three, it's just big me, it's not, you know, I'm the best no matter who it is, you know what I'm saying? And it felt like that for a while. And then when it took that left turn, you know,

it just felt like something that just wasn't comfortable to you, or wasn't comfortable to anybody who was a fan of you. My apology came before it took that turn. Let's remember that. Like, like. And there's also the conspiracies or the theories that like, you know, people gave you the heads. I don't know how true it is, but like. It's not true, it's a straight lie.

It's like, we could do five, we could do a whole season of 7 p.m. in Brooklyn and just go debunk every single, every lie. I'm so glad you said that. That was the rumor that Drake was supposed to be at Dreamville Fest and then-

That actually is true.

He was supposed to be at Dreamville Fest.

Oh, okay. That was planned, he didn't come. Thank God he didn't come, no disrespect to Drake. I love Drake, but had he come, I would have felt more pressure to be on stage representing that energy.

Way before Kendrick to come too. Like that was my plan for Dreamville Fest that year. Mind you, I never got a chance to like, it's crazy, because like, you know, around the time I was going to hit Kendrick, like, oh, you want to come through and make this moment, boom, boom, boom. I told Drake, Drake knew that it was something

I wanted to happen. When we was on tour, I'm like, yo, nigga. There were other plans in the works. But like, but so. Cause y'all all supposed to be on first person

shooting together, right?

No, not that we were all supposed to. No, no. So, so I hate that with so many lies,

you actually said.

You actually said.

How about you here?

I gotta ask that.

With so many lies,

you actually said things that are like half truths. Okay. becoming a Dreamville Fest? Yes, half truth. He was always gonna be coming to Dreamville Fest from when we was on tour together. He had always agreed to do that. It was only this situation that made him like, and he actually told me, he was like,

and I appreciate him for doing this. He's like, yo, bro, it was after he didn't show up, but he was like, yo, bro, I didn't wanna put you in a situation when me and him talked, he could tell my heart wasn't maybe equivalent to his. So he was like, yo, I didn't want to come down there and put you in a situation on that stage

and say some shit that you would have to stand behind. You know what I mean? Ultimately, that's why he told me he ain't show up. So, and I'm like, thank you. Thank God that you didn't because it left the space for me to receive what I was supposed to do. You know what I mean? But that's one thing you said that was like a half-truth.

You just said another half-truth, which was,

what was the other half-truth?

First person shooter.

This was all being on first person shooter together.

Oh, so I'm not gonna say we were all supposed to be. How it came to me was, before that beat ever made it to me, getting the response he wanted, maybe he was like, let me hit cold. Because I think Boy Wonder was pushing like, bro, you need to hit cold. Mind you. So I never looked at that song like it was going to be all of us.

I thought it was me and Dre and I just had the beat. I didn't have, there was nothing on it. I just had, and I felt mad pressure because I wanted to come through for him. You know what I mean? I felt like he showed up at Dreamville Fest a year before that. You know what I mean? I wanted to come through for him. I had to write through for him on his album. The clock was running, you know what I mean?

And winding down, boom, and I came through. But you said something in the beginning, damn, I want to remember.

No, you said something about me saying,

you said something about me.

No, Schoolboy Q, many way more straight lies. Like Schoolboy Q shit is a straight lie. Like, of course, shout out to Schoolboy Q. He not gonna come out and just say it on his own, but it's like, when you get a chance, ask him, it's a straight up lie.

But you said something in the beginning, how like on songs, like how I say I'm the best on songs. It's like, ask me in real life, do I think I'm the best rapper alive? Do you think you're the best rapper alive? Bro, it's a nigga named Black Thought that exists. It's a nigga named Lupe Fiasco that exists. It's niggas that on any given day,

even my peers, a Drake or a Kendrick, where it's like, yo, I know on any given day I can show up to the studio and give these niggas 80, but I know they could show up on any day in the studio and give me 80, and I might only have 30. So if I'm taking on a rap persona, like when I'm rapping, that's how I like to rap. And guess what?

Sometimes I hit the mark and I spit a verse that really might have you believe in that shit. But if you ask me in real life, do I walk around like I'm the best rapper alive? No, nigga. Like I'm the best ever, no. But when I put on that motherfucking cape,

like that's how I try to attack shit. And have there been things and moments and verses where I'm writing this shit and I'm like, I know nigga's not fucking with this, absolutely. But in reality, do I walk around this earth like there's no nigga better than me in real life?

Like I can't get in the studio with Black Thought and he just give me 90, you know what I mean? And I'm sitting there like, I got 25 for you.

You know what I mean?

Or any one of these amazing rappers. But I think people hear me say it because they don't know me for real. They hear me say it in a verse so much when I have on the cape.

It sounds convincing like a motherfucker.

It sounds convincing cause I'm really doing that shit that's gonna have a nigga like, man he think he, yeah nigga. No you think, you think when you hear it nigga. You just scared that people actually believe that. The truth is, nigga, have I done things that are on that caliber?

Absolutely. Like, are there people that'll get in there and smack me? Absolutely. Can I get in that same studio on another given day and smack them around? Absolutely.

It's no different than basketball. How many times you done gave a nigga 50 or 40? And then turn around, he done gave you 50 or 40. Like, it's no different, you know what I mean? So like, I think people think that I like walk around with that mentality or something. It's like, bro, that's not even my character.

You know what I mean? To walk around thinking like, I hope that I do something when I sit down to write that can be considered at that level. You know what I mean? But I already know it's a lot of niggas out there

that while I'm hoping, they might be doing that shit right beside me and they might give me 60.

Okay, now I need to know, Melo.

Yo, yo.

Did you walk around in real life thinking that you were the best nigga to ever do it?

No, because I felt like once I navigated and understood the landscape, I placed myself where I felt like I deserve to be. Right, with the respect of the game and with respect of players and also stripping everything. It was for me, I'm eye testing it.

Like I need eye test, I gotta see it to believe it. If I saw you and you was like that and you was nice and you, then my level for you is, my respect level is at an all time high. So it's almost like you coming and saying I'm better than MJ or I'm better than,

it's like I ain't even do nothing yet. But with that being said, in this realm right here, because I never played against MJ. I never played against any of those, a lot of those guys from back in the day.

So I can't say if I'm better than Dr. J, if I'm better than Larry Bird, if I'm, nah, but what I will tell you, in these two decades that I did play, when it's time to lace these up against whoever it was, then I know where I stand at in that realm, right? So I don't go off of like I'm the greatest nigga,

I'm the best basketball player out there. I know where I stand, which is why I'm able to walk the way I walk today, which is why I got the respect and I give the respect today because I don't walk around trying to compete with who they consider is the greatest basketball players of all time. We got 8,000 players or some shit, like 6,000, you know what I mean?

But like, I'm one of those 75, right? So I know where I stand at. And any basketball type of conversation that you wanna have in any room when they talk about this game of basketball and the skill set and really the art of this shit,

then yeah, I can sit at the table. So that's how I feel about it.

Come on, P. Scott. The very mature answer.

All right, man, let's switch up the convo a little bit, Cole. You got some of the best NBA bars, sports bars,

we've ever heard.

I appreciate it.

And it's only right that we go through a couple of those. And Melo, Monica, let's see if we can rank some of these best ones. Our rankings or his rankings? I think, you know what? We'll find it.

Let's have, let's have, let's have Melo rank them.

I know you was about to point your ass over there.

Let's have Melo rank them.

You know I'm about to put the-

Happy times.

All right, put your ass back. Both changed the game, came through and made a lane, who's the savior, who's greater, all we know they ain't the same. On the five, I feel like it's a, I say it's a four only because I wanna give it a three,

but I feel like the potency of the truth pushes it to a four, which is like, yo, what you just said, it's like, yo, you can't compare these dudes, you know what I mean? Like, the sentiment of that bar pushes it to a four for me.

Go ahead. Hold on, which way are you doing your one through five? Five being the best or one being the best? Five being the best.

Okay, all right, bet.

Look, they love me in the shot like MJ. They love me in the shot like Oprah. I'm nigga Khablak, not even Dikembe.

Ooh.

That joint is a classic.

Yeah, it is.

It's a double. I got two NBA references, bro. I'm going five, bro. I'm going five, bro. I'm going five on that. How could you ever try to play me? Walk up out the booth, do the Westbrook Rocker Baby. Kill him on the song, walk up out the booth, do the Westbrook Rocker Baby, it's a three.

That's a three?

I like that one, man.

That's where the Westbrook shit was.

That was iconic.

Yeah, the visual.

Yes, the celebration.

We in two different games, you playing Patty Cake, brother, you're lame, I seen Shane Battier. Yes, I apologize to Shane Battier in person. And I was so happy I seen him because I always wanted to do this. Because, you know, I'm a Carolina, I grew up a Carolina fan.

You know what I mean? So to me as a kid, I don't lock in with college sports that much more. Sports period is like, I don't really have the time no more, but especially college, I kind of fell off. Still love Carolina, but I'm not, I used to really ride out, you know what I mean?

So it's just fuck Duke off, right?

So from a kid, Shane's first sin was, he was playing for Duke. That was his first sin, you know what I mean? On top of that, like, you know, I was young and I was like, judgmental on, and now it's crazy cause I got kids and I'm like, Shane Betty, you could tell he came from a nice family.

I knew it, I knew it. I caught up at UNC versus Duke. And then I made a judgment and Shane Betty at the time,

man, he was Duke, you know what I'm saying? He had a major, major name.

Man, you picked your side, man, you said, fuck Duke over there.

He was like, everything about him was like, he was the All-American player. Set screens, kick charges, rebound.

Super professional guy, like super.

I'm picturing that 5'5 documentary when they're talking about Duke, it's like, what do you think about Duke?

He's like, pussy, bitch.

Exactly. I'm just like, man. But time went on as years went past and the further I got from that line, I would hear it and be like, and people liked that line. Like people love that line. And when I was starting to hear it, I would cringe. Like, oh my God, like why the fuck did you do that?

Like, Shane Barry is't know this man. You don't know him at all. You know what I mean? Like, you done put his name in a song that's going to live forever and you disrespected his name. So I always told myself, like, if I ever met him, you know what I mean? The first thing I would say to him is like, apologize for how dumb that was, you know what I mean? And how childish and immature it was sitting over there or something.

Matter of fact, somebody, he was with him even. Somebody that was with him, I knew. And they was like, yo, you gotta come over here, bro. Shane Badio.

They wanted me to go.

You know how NBA niggas are. NBA niggas wanna roast him more. They want me to go in and, ask him to come over here. I'm like, no, I'm serious, bro. Ask him to meet me over here in the hallway. I didn't even want to do it at the table

with all the people.

So he got up, he came, he met me around the corner and he was so cool and gracious. And like, bro, I'm talking about in that moment, like he didn't give a fuck. He's like, it's funny, boom, boom, boom. I'm like, no bro, you don't understand. Like, ain't nothing about that cool. I had to like double apologize and let him know, like, I fuck with you and I respect you so much.

And even more than that, bro, now that I got kids, bro, I respect your parents. I know you got great parents, bro. I know you got a great family, dog. Like, for world, bro. And like, that's a beautiful thing. You know what I mean? Like, think we need more Shane Battier's in the world. So like, shout out to Shane Battier,

who graciously accepted my apology in person. And he said his son is hooping now. He said his son is really getting better.

Shout out to his son.

Okay, for sure. So shout out to Shane Battier. That's a T. Okay. All right. Mella, I'm gonna let you say this one because this one of my favorites. I'm gonna let you say this one right here.

I'm saying wait, that Mella was staring at Reeves

the way that I'm staring at you.

That's a five, bro.

That's a 10, actually.

That's a black Twitter broad.

That's a black Twitter broad.

This is such an iconic picture. I heard the explanation. And you see it, he's actually not even, wow, he not even looking at her. When you really look at the picture, but it's like.

You know Darby, you know how Darby walk in the door. You know, it's just straight through. During fashion, we ain't, Cole ain't never go to them type of shit. You know what I'm saying? He been to a the fuck low.

Normally you sitting on the high bench. I was sitting on the low bench, trying to get away from the cameras and all that shit. But I appreciate that, man. You know what I mean?

I appreciate that bar. My favorite part when you tell that story is the way you do the sounds of the cameras.

The way he does it.

Shhh.

Shhh. He does it, she went, shut her.

Cole, really happy that you came here because you get to participate in America's number one segment. You know what it is, it's called Fuck With It or Fuck Outta Here. This is where we go through the internets, the interwebs, you find some of the most viral things. All you gotta do is let us know if you fucking with it

or we getting the fuck out of here. All right, so first off, Meek Mill tweets can be hit or miss. Cole, not sure if you saw this one yet.

Oh yeah, this was right before we went on the air.

My man Felton just texted me that.

Oh, shout out Felton, man. Good brother. I need J Cole on my project, bro.

Let's get it in the studio.

What's up?

Fuck with it. Fuck with it? I love Meek. Yeah, Meek is, yeah, for sure.

That was easy.

Yeah, I fuck with that. We had each other's number in the past, but you know, niggas be switching they numbers.

I don't, by the way, I got a long-term stable number, but shout to me.

Okay, so speaking of collabs, three artists that you would like to work with that you haven't?

Oh, I ain't gonna lie, I'm not gonna have a good one for this.

I don't operate like that. Yeah, I literally don't have a list. Like I'm gonna have to sit here and take it. Nobody. Not a list, but nobody. Dead or alive. Let's make it interesting. Yeah, dead. Pac, big. Bob Marley, like. I'll be fine. I'm into it. In terms of current, and it's not that nobody's not. Of course, we got so many great artists, I don't walk around like, yo, you know who I really wanna work with? I just work on my own, and then if something comes up where it's like, yo, I can't hear such and such, I do that.

But I don't walk around with a running list of people I wanna work with.

All right.

What you've been doing so far has worked,

so I guess we just gotta go with it.

You know what I mean? Even if I'm a fan of somebody, my first thought or none of my thoughts is like, yo, I wanna get in and work with them. I just enjoyed what they do. You know what I mean?

There's no part of me that's like, yo, we gotta link, let's work. Why? I need a cold, cold

kiss.

Cold kiss with a

Jasmine Sullivan on the hook. That's hard. Yeah, I'm with that.

A&R Mello.

I'm just saying, I need that.

Nah, I'm with that.

With the remix, Wizkid.

Yeah.

Like, I'm fine with that. I need. You starting to throw a lot of need, I'm laying the whole thing right here.

Throwing a lot of colors in the pot,

that's when it get tricky.

You know what I mean?

Remix, we gonna go to Africa,

and we gonna get Wizkid. We gonna get Wizkid.

That's when it get tricky.

Nah, but I, you know. When you say Kiss, you had me. Jasmine, I fuck with that. And we shot the whiskey, I'm not saying, but he be in certain blends, it's like, all right. But that's the Kiss Cole, like that vibe. I think we missing that type of vibe. You know, back to the remixes and R&B remixes.

I love it, sign me up for that.

I'ma shout a kiss.

You know what I mean?

He never had a bad verse in his life.

Ever. I'll find one. Legendary. Um, Cole, there was, all right, so he's saying fuck with it. We fucking with the Cole and me collaboration.

Long story short.

Yeah, yeah. We fucking with it. All right, Cole, there was an interview you did a little over 10 years ago now, where Ryan Coogler, shout out to him, accidentally revealed that you were married to the world

and you had a priceless reaction to it. real quick. How'd it get married changed you bro? Oh, what is that? Did you see my man?

I can tell how genuine a reaction that was.

Yeah, that was like, oh my bad bro.

That was like, there was like one thing to not do.

I'm joking, I'm joking.

Nah, it's all good.

It's all good.

Like, oh, that's great. Oh, it's all good, it's all good. No, I told him. Nah, it's all good.

Oh man, shout out to Ryan Coogler.

Yeah, shout out to Coogler.

Oscar award winning.

Congrats, congrats. Fuck with it or fuck out of here. Coogler gotta write you into the next Black Panther

to make up for that one.

with books for years, right? You know, people been getting crazy with the viral tweets saying he just reads the first page and doesn't read the rest of it. Still not sure if he ever made it past that, but recently he ditched the books

and now he's walking around with the vinyls,

you know what I'm saying?

Ooh, I seen this.

He got the viny That was, it's hard. Why are you laughing? I'm saying, I'm saying.

I'm saying, yeah, Chad.

No, I'm explaining that.

I'm explaining that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm talking about it.

Cold sent me the vinyl, man. Because somebody sent me the post or whatever and one of the comments was like, this nigga so performative, right? Right, right, right. man, people really like, that's fucked up. Because in reality, that was at the Heat game, and he was bringing his vinyl to the Heat game,

because I was at the Heat game, and I asked him if he would meet my kids. That was my oldest getting into basketball. Brian is his number one, and he asking me all season if he could go to a Lakers game, if he could see the Lakers.

And I hit Bron, and he graciously said he would do it. You know what I mean? And on his way, he had the fall-off vinyl. He brought it so I could sign it. So it's like, thank you, Bron, for doing that. And then I, of course course it's just the internet. So I can't take it that serious, but I just seen it.

I'm like, damn, like they do this to you too, Brian? Like damn, like yo. My man just reminds you. I know, I'll be on my death leap. But it's like, bro, here, Brian would never get a chance. Like if you wouldn't have just said that

and showed that picture randomly, nobody would never know why this nigga just had this fall off item. They'd just be like, oh this performative ass nigga, boom, boom. And maybe they wouldn't have said that. Maybe they wouldn't have cared.

But it's just like, damn, like there's a story to go with that. You just don't know it. This man was doing me a solid and bro, that shit was the craziest feeling like to see your kids like meet a superhero. That was my first time ever doing some shit like that. Like ever like asking, you know.

Like doing me a solid.

Yeah, like, yo bro, I hate the ass. We're like, yo, it's a crazy feeling. And it made me appreciate all the times that there was a father or something that had their kid and I get to sign, I'm sure you know all about this. It's like I get to sign an autograph or take a picture.

It's like, oh my God, like I hear the father in my mind. Man, I really appreciate this, bro, thank you. But now that I've been through it, it means I'm like, oh, I know what he meant now. He don't mean like, hey bro thing. He really means like, bro. Thanks for making my son happy. You made my son, you gave my son a lifelong memory. You know what I mean?

So shout to Brown for that. Shout to all of y'all that have done that. And like, you know, it was that clip I seen too of Brown, like some kid like asking if he could sign his shoe. And I guess Brown like called him over really makes that kid's day slash life. But more than that, the father feeling is like,

you can't even, I wouldn't even know how to put it in words.

It helps the household.

You said what?

It helps the household.

No, really.

Because if the kid happy in the household. You happy in the household.

Facts.

They be all brah, man. I'm laughing because I knew exactly. I knew where it was going. I just knew where it was going. So I know exactly where that story was going. I just love the way you conduct yourself

as a family man though, man. Like you don't hide from it, but like you still hold that near and dear to you

and privately, whereas you know.

On the summer walker joint,

when you was like, I keep crying about these kids. I'm like, oh my God, yes, I feel you.

No, that's real. Once you had kids, I was already emotional. I watched a movie when I was a kid and really feel the emotion. Once I, after I had kids, I can't, certain movies I love, I don't even wanna watch that

because the scene hits too hard now. You know what I mean? Like, I don't know how to explain it, but once you get these kids, like the world warps a little bit and shit just hit different.

Hell yeah.

That's the power of it. We gonna let you get to your kids, and we gonna let you get to China,

wherever the fuck you gotta get to.

Come on, who left?

But we appreciate earlier, man, the timing is always right. And I appreciate you for us being able to follow your journey, for us to be able to see the story through visually, listen to it, and still be able to kind of grow with that as well.

I mean, you set the standard for a lot of people and a lot of kids, so keep being the role model, man. Keep being the real J. Cole Cole and we appreciate you, champ. Can't wait to see you on tour too, man.

It's good to see you making the moves again, bro.

What's the tour? What's going on? You wanna talk about the tour? Yeah, we on tour. It starts July, same day as the J. I can't make the J's from now on. I'm heartbroken. You know what I mean? Y'all make sure y'all, my shit sold out so we good, but make sure you get them J tickets

anyways. I wish I could, I damn near was trying to do the math. Like if I'm off stage by this time, could I fly and still see? But yeah, so I started July and it's going all the way to December. We doing the States, then we doing Europe, then we doing Australia, then we doing South Africa. Africa dates and we try to add some Asia dates too. But yeah, everything, y'all went crazy with the tour. I appreciate it, I can't wait to,

I've been sitting on these songs for so long and this album for so long, I can't wait to actually perform it.

So.

Yeah, man. Speaking of performing, I gotta ask you one last thing. I don't know if you can pull this up, but the viral TikToks of the Hit The Gas, the, ♪ And I want you to know ♪ Let me see. My favorite record, oh please,

please play one of them joints, yo. Thank you. And we don't wanna see no grown ass man body rollin' and shit.

I'm telling you, yo, you gotta watch it though.

Here we go. I see it even.

I ain't seen no.

Yeah. Yeah. It's the record right here. He's saying, are you good?

Clean it.

Not as hard. I think I've seen that one. That was hard.

I don't see this one. Is that your glow now? That nigga got the glow.

Sadu.

He got the uh, what's the shit?

Bruce Lee.

The Bruce Lee glow.

That's hard.

Nah, he killed that, man.

That's amazing.

He's a killer.

He's a killer.

He's a killer.

He's a killer. Bruce Lee would have to be on the show now. That's hard. Nah, he killed that, man. He killed that. That's an accurate representation.

Take it slow, Cass. Man, you already know what it is. This is 7 p.m. in Brooklyn, O-Wave Original presented by FanDuel. You know what to do if you support the podcast. Subscribe to our YouTube page.

Hit the podcast. Subscribe to our YouTube page, hit the podcast channels, leave a like, leave a rating, leave a review, good, bad, or indifferent. We love them all, baby. For the wonderful Monica McNutt, the legendary J. Cole, the Hall of Famer Carmelo Anthony,

I'm Kaz, and we'll catch y'all next time on The Hook, people. I'm Kaz, and we'll catch y'all next time on The Hook, people.

Peace!