Joe Rogan Experience #2531 - Forrest Galante

The Joe Rogan experience My friend Joe, what's good a second man, bro, it's good to see you So I've been sending you stuff cuz like we've been I knew that you were coming on and I sent you that one That video of the guy who got a trail cam photo of a Black Panther.Yep.So is that just a melanistic?

Mountain lion, so is that it's a great question there's never been a melanistic mountain lion Nobody's ever seen one ever never hit one with a car never born one captivity nothing whoa so mountain lions by definition Pumas You know whatever you want to call them There's never been a black one ever but every year I mean I got a buddy in Florida swears blind that he's seen a black mountain lion in his backyard and Yet that photo that you sent me That photo circulates like once every three years bullshit.It's bullshit.

It's a real photo, but it's a trail cam photo Oh, it wasn't this one, but well That's I think that's the first one and then there's another one with the cat gets like right up to that one Yeah, that one so that photo is a real.

I want to say Jaguar It's hard to tell but either Jaguar or black leopard both of which aren't do become melanistic um And you can tell that because you can see the spots barely, like the rosettes.So all these melanistic cats, like Jags and Leopards and things that do get melanistic, they still have those rosettes under the black coat.Yeah, so not a mountain lion.

Too bad.I know it's such a bummer one day if somebody finds one that'll be like a huge thing So it's not funny that we want it to be different because just a mountain line itself is amazing I mean if they were all black and there was like a tan mountain line be like somebody saw a tan now a hundred percent It's like whatever is different and rare is what people just are like.

I want that one thing I've always said that about Bigfoot.

Yeah, the Bigfoot is kind of interesting, but not as interesting as an orca

like a hundred percent right like we have gorillas that are cooler than Bigfoots well orcas in particular because they have languages that we can't decipher Languages specialized diets some kind, you know, I'm sure you know, I can't even talk to each other, right?Yeah, it's unbelievable.Like it's the same as if you or I went to India or Africa, right?We can't communicate.We don't eat the same food not look different and yet to us an orca is an orca, right?

Yeah, and it's super smart and huge brains and don't kill people for some strange reason ever except when they're in captivity.

That's right Yeah which is so crazy.I did a thing in Baja Mexico maybe three years ago where we were just cruising on this little ponga, this little fishing boat and we saw these orcas go by and now people seem to be doing it a lot but at the time it was like nobody had really just tried this and this was a transient population which means they primarily eat seals and sea lions not the stingray eaters and so we're like Let's just go and we like ran the boat up ahead and jumped in and the orcas came up and the bull never came out so you know the bull has a huge fin like he's the biggest like the dominant protector of the pod But the cows and their babies came up and the boat like drifted away and me and my buddy Mike And they just circled us like just looking at us with their big eyeballs And it was me to you from orcas, and they did like two two circles around us like what are these things?Then we're just like Meh, boring, and kept swimming.

They must know, right?If they're that intelligent, and they have language, and they communicate, they must know what a person is, right?Like, look at this.

Oh, dude, I saw the guy that filmed this.This is so crazy.

Look, a headbutt's a sunfish.So hard, it explodes.Boom.Turns into pieces.

So this is a newly documented behavior.Just in the last maybe six months, they've found that orcas will literally explode fish from impact, whether it's a game or what, but they're finding that this is not the first time they're doing this.They're starting to just explode these fish on impact.just because.

How are they doing that like how how fast are they going?I do not know the answer to that, but it's impressive I would have never imagined that that would actually be possible right like how fast What does the starfish look is like flat like a stingray a sunfish?

It's like a mola mola those ocean sunfish with the big they're pretty huge so huge 600 pounds I get huge I Literally turned to dust dude I think I think those are the orca equivalents of like a redneck that wants to hit a turtle on the road And they're just like we're bored.

Let's explode it For those guys that do that, have you seen that game, well it's not a game, but I guess whatever it is, an activity where these guys just run at each other full blast?Dude, RNC Run Nation?

I fucking love that.It's one of my favorite things.I'm such a huge fan.

How could you love that?

I love it, dude, because I play rugby.So it's rugby boys that are doing it, right?It's like an Oklahoma drill, except for rugby guys.And that's a drill that when I was playing rugby, we used to do all the time.You just run at each other?You just run at each other.

It's my favorite.Run Nation, RNC, it's my favorite thing.I watch every video.

Look at these guys.I would have never guessed.They both just went unconscious.Look at that.They both went unconscious.That guy's fine.

I'm such a fan.But I've seen it where they both get unconscious.

I want to bring these guys to the U .S.and see how they stack up against, like, NFL linebackers.

Oh, Jesus Christ.They both headbutted each other, dude.Dude, you love fight sports.What are you talking about?This is not a fight sport.

This is just retarded.

I'm such a fan.Oh, that's so silly.Oh, I don't do it to be clear that you like that I know too much about brain damage, and you should too if you like rugby I've had too much brain damage to know too much about right now I'm just kidding, but how long did you play rugby for well?

I grew up in Zimbabwe and so like Southern Africa rugby is life right so it's like probably deep South football kind of culture So I still play believe it or not except now I play very intermittently because one game puts me out for weeks

Have you ever got your brain examined?

No, I have not one concussion in my life, so I think I'm okay.Oh, that's silly because Guarantee you'd have sub concussive trauma.What is sub concussive trauma?

Well you where you don't go unconscious, but you get rattled and then you have some brain damage and You're probably right.Yeah, soccer players get it.Really?Yeah.Yeah.Yeah.

Chronic traumatic encephalopathy.Yeah, that's soccer players get it.I did not know that.From hitting the ball.

So is that, and you know a lot about UFC, is that brain trauma worse than UFC type trauma?

Well, it's all brain trauma and it's dependent upon many factors.It's dependent upon how many times you've been hit.And also there's a gene variation.It's APOE4.Is that what it is?If you have this one particular gene, it makes you more susceptible to CTE for some reason.

Oh, interesting.

Yeah.So like, because a concussion is when your brain sort of impacts against your skull.Is that right?

There's that.And I mean, I think it's also it's not just that it's like if you get hit in the neck, you can get a concussion.Also, yeah.Also, a lot of people don't realize you can get a concussion from getting hit in the body.

How does that work?

Because you get rattled.Yeah.Also, another group of people that seem to get CTE are people who ride jet skis.That's wild.Oh, yeah.How does that work?

Well, my friend Mark Gordon, he's a doctor who specializes in traumatic brain injuries and treating football players, soldiers, and he's treated some fighters as well.He said that any repeated stress, any banging, anything like that, head banging, like if you're a fucking Headbang.Yeah, like you're probably gonna get brain damage.No way.Yeah legitimate brain damage Like I can't remember what I was doing five seconds ago.Where's my key?

I forget what I'm talking about mid -sentence.Dude, you're scaring me here.These are all things I enjoy doing.

I enjoy running straight at people, full blast.

Yeah, I just, those guys are animals.They're tough guys, no doubt about it.

And those Pacific Islanders, like, because those are the guys that are doing it primarily, right?Like, they play rugby league and stuff.They're built different.Oh, yeah.Like, they're so hard.It's insane.

Do you remember David Tua?No, I'm David Tua was a heavyweight boxer back in the day who was like one of the most ferocious guys that ever fought in boxing and it just just built like like a your Prototypical island warrior guy.Yeah, just yeah, that's David.Yeah, I mean just a tank.You don't want to run it at that guy I'm telling you what yeah, I mean just a monster would knock people out Inside he knocked out John Ruiz like famously in the first round and like something like 30 seconds or something like that was crazy Different breed man crazy left hook.Yeah that kind of guy I mean we've got a bunch of the mark hunt who's a famous kickboxer.

There's another guy built like that.Yeah, just Just wide as a fucking barn.

There's like no waste.It's just like a brick solid rock.

Yeah, yeah Again playing rugby I played rugby against guys like that And it was the worst those are the dudes that have the balls to get in a little tiny boat make it across the fucking ocean Think about it like only the super robust Survived right so it's like nature.

Just weeding out any possible weakness only the strongest human beings made it absolutely Absolute natural selection similar to the african -americans that we have in North America like those are the strongest best guys that came over here Right right, and that's why they're all the most incredible athletes.I don't know about all, but you know what I mean Yeah, I know what you're saying.

Yeah, there's I mean, it's free and also like when you look at like guys from Iceland the strongmen Yeah, so how many strongmen are from Iceland well how many fucking Vikings are from Iceland?

Yeah

It's weird when you think about it that, like, nature finds its way.

It's the same thing.It's like, we think we're so different and above, like, animals and stuff.It's natural selection.We just bring the biggest, the best, and the strongest into some area, whether that's Vikings colonizing Iceland or the Samoans on their islands or whatever it happens to be.And you're just like, well, here's a superior population, because we brought in the strongest.All the biggest, best, and strongest have made it, and all of the weakest have died off.

Isn't that weird?Like, you as a guy who studies wildlife biology, isn't it weird that we want to think of ourselves as being a different thing?

Like, we are clearly not.We're not.We're not even at the top.That's the thing that people never understand.Intellectually, we are, obviously.Look at what we've built.

But like, we're not even, we don't even sit at the top of the food chain.

But we kind of do, because we kill everything else if we want to.Well, because of our brains.Yeah.Well, not even our brains, really.It's other people's brains that invented guns.It's like it has nothing to do with you and me.

True.No, not us.That's just interesting.It's like our brains or our evolutionary advantage, it transfers over to people that don't have good genetics.

Yeah.

Right.Because you could be built like a bag of shit, like a literal bag of shit, and you can kill a grizzly bear with a rifle.That's right.Kind of nuts.Yeah.Right.

It's crazy.You just be sitting there on a ridge with a scope and boom, and you kill a 1 ,200 pound Kodiak brown bear.

Because all of our biological energy goes into this thing instead of being physically big or intimidating or any of those other things.

Also, we can transfer what we figured out onto other people, which is no other animals ever figured out how to do that.

Nope.Isn't that crazy?Wild.Yeah.

It's really wild.When you think about it, it's like, What if you were studying us if you were coming from another planet, and you were studying us you'd be like wow this one animal is fucking weird Yeah, this one.This one's doing something different.Yeah, absolutely, but they would still look at us and go oh well They're definitely animals like look at them

Oh, yeah, if you looked at the earth from an earth shot You'd look at what we've done and be like this is the top animal But they're parasitic and colonizing the whole planet and changing things and manipulating things whereas all the other animals are just getting by Yeah, if we found out that there were were actual visiting animals Aliens that there was actual Intelligent life from somewhere else visiting us.

I think there a lot of us would probably be like why didn't you help?

Yeah?

Why didn't you come along and say hey cut the shit?

It reminds me of the I don't know do you watch do you watch South Park ever yes?There was an old South Park episode where earth was like a reality show and And it's like, let's see who's getting along this week.The zebras are fighting with the giraffes and the people are doing this.And it's like, it's like we're just like a reality show for the universe where you just put a bunch of species.We're like a big, big brother situation.

Well, we are kind of that for us.Oh, totally.We are.That's what a reality show is.A reality show for us is the world.Yeah.

You know, Lindsey Graham, did he die in a rocket accident or did he die?Was he poisoned by Russia?Let's tune in to Twitter and find out.You know what I mean?

Exactly, man.It's hilarious.

We are we are locked in on whatever the fuck is happening all over the world all at once and that's one of the weird things about social media now is That we're constantly being inundated with new things to occupy our attention Mm -hmm, you know and we have no attention span to watch anything for more than five seconds, but yeah at the same time This is the rise of podcasts.Yeah Which are long form right yeah, so it's clear that that's not really the case with everybody There's enough people that are interested in actual fascinating things and have an attention span It's just like we're all susceptible to the the brain rot that comes with just scrolling It's so hard not like I've tried to make conscious decisions because you know you can imagine what my Instagram feed looks like right It's animal after animal half of its AI now whatever and I still

try and make a conscious decision to not look at it And I find myself just reaching for my phone and doing this it's just it.We're wired into it now Yeah, dopamine hits crazy, and it's not even really rewarding which is really terrifying to me because it's not something That's like really feels great And you barely retain the information like even if you watch an educational one where you're like wow that was amazing you barely retain that information because it's such a quick thing until you're on to the next one, at least for me.

Yeah, there's a little bit of that in there for sure, but I think I've gotten a pretty good algorithm lately.So lately for whatever reason my algorithm has been really excellent It's really dialed in to where I'm only getting like really fascinating things last couple of weeks.Yeah.Oh, it's been great That's way better, and then every now and then some retarded shit comes on I just skip through it real quick, and I'm like gotta keep this algorithm going good or you text me a bigfoot AI You actually texted me the bigfoot what was the same guy you said the same guy I texted you back.

I was like I don't think so This guy raised a baby Bigfoot in secrecy for 10 years.It's so bad.It's so bad.

It's so obvious it's like a shitty AI photograph of like, like a blurry Polaroid photograph.

And then you read the comments and there's like 400 people going like, oh my God, I can't believe this happened.And you're like.

Come on, dude, Duncan and I back in the day like in 2012 or 11 Whatever it was when I did that sci -fi show Joe Rogan questions everything, huh?We went and hung out with Bigfoot of people.

We we actually went Bigfoot hunting.

No way.Oh, yeah Yeah, we were with them for a couple days.How was that woods the Pacific Northwest?

Kind of sad.

Yeah, it's the way I describe it I was said here's what you don't find when you go looking for Bigfoot and Black people.You're more likely to find Bigfoot than you are black people looking for Bigfoot.

It's just such a crazy white guy.

Un -fuckable white guys out in the woods, staring at shadows.Making something out of nothing.

Look at that leaf.

It must have been here.It's just unfuckable guys.It's really what it is It's it's unfortunately, that's really what it is.It's not that there's not Something to the story because I think there is something to the story.Yeah, I think it's an old story Well dates all the way back to Native Americans, right?Not just that there's how many we look this up before like how many different names there are and I think was more than 50 yeah different This guy was dead big.

By the way, you imagine sitting that close to that thing, how bad that would smell?Yeah, it's revolting.I mean, that thing's been dead for who knows how long, and this guy's just hanging out.

Yeah, I'd like to take a picture.

How do I look?

Fun fact, this guy was on your mom's house like 12 years ago.

Was he?

Yeah.For what?He's like a fun guy on Instagram.He's a dog trainer.That's hilarious.Tom found his videos a long time ago, and they brought him in to do a podcast with them.

And I just know I know who this guy is.No way.I don't know.I got in a Bigfoot.He has Bigfoot's body.

Look how bad that looks.

It's so bad, dude.

Oh, my God.Look at these.Look at the head.

Look at the smile.

It's a cake oh My god, he saw it into it open it up Tom.Oh, he found a foot.

Oh, yeah, very real very real looking foot That's really so if you can't trust a guy in overalls with no shirt Who can you trust by the way guys in great shape for his age?

He is looks looks ripped It's out there lifting up fake big all day I think there was, I mean, obviously we know that Gigantopithecus is real, but we were reading about this the other day that it seems like Gigantopithecuswasn't bipedal.And that there was some dispute as to whether or not it was bipedal, but apparently there's some biologists that are saying, no, it was most likely walked around like an orangutan.It was just huge.Interesting.

Oh, wow.

Just a huge orangutan looking thing.

No, I've heard of it.I didn't know that it wasn't bipedal though.

That's fascinating.I think it's under dispute.I think it's been disputed.That's interesting.It's hard to say.They don't have a lot of bones, right?

They only have like a few jaw bones and some stuff.

Them yeah, dude.I learned something pretty interesting this last week So I I just got back from India literally flew in here from India, and we were doing some elephant rescues With Ventara that big Indian wildlife rescue place This elephant got hit by a car that we went and rescued so its leg was all jacked up speaking of non bipedal things So you would think just the elephant would walk with a limp well having that trunk.It's incredible They use that trunk as a limb to So I was watching this elephant walk.I wish I had photos or video to show you, but I was watching this elephant walk, and it wouldn't put weight on its leg that was hit by the car.So it would walk with three legs and its trunk as its fourth appendage, which is an amazing thing to see, because you think of the size of an elephant's cranium and its head and the weight.And in order to move that distribution off of that broken leg, it was using this trunk as a limb.

It was just, it was incredible.It was really sad, but it was an incredible thing to see the way they sort of figured out how to maneuver.using that fifth appendage.

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com slash Rogan.ZipRecruiter.Meet your match on ZipRecruiter.Does the elephant allow people to set its leg?

So, You know in India is it broken?I don't know it went so we went to basically so I work at this place called Ventara Which is the world's largest wildlife rescue and rehab center?It's Unreal dude, it would blow your mind I mean like on a whole nother level all privately funded by a not in Bonnie this Indian billionaire guy the guy who had the huge wedding if you remember that Justin Bieber sing at his wedding and stuff He's a great dude him and I are buddies now But so he's funded this world's largest wildlife rescue and rehab it like it makes the San Diego Zoo look like a roadside attraction I mean, it's like crazy big and so he does all these rescues right so reason I'm telling you all this is they go and respond to these rescues and And then take it into this gigantic world's biggest animal hospital that they've built So we went and rescued the elephant and now it's probably by today back in Ventara Yeah, here you go, and and they'll be treating it.So this is long toy.This is the other one We did two rescues this one was born with Splay legs and then went into logging and so all the weight and stuff from logging so you see the splay legs on the front there ouch Yeah So, anyway, that was just incredible, but the short answer is they do let people treat them, because these animals are raised in captivity by what's called mahouts, which are elephant riders.And the whole dynamic's really fascinating.

So you grow up with an elephant as a mahout in Indian culture, and then there's usually one or two mahouts that spend their life dedicated to the elephant.and all they do is ride them, log them, they use them as tools, but they still love them very much, it's just they use them as a tool.Elephants obviously aren't made to do that.So they break down over time.

So that's why it's legs are like that It's from carrying the amount of weight that comes from logging.

So that one would have been born with a deformity Okay, but then years of compounded weight and everything else makes its legs like that.Oh, it's crazy And then yeah So we go and we take the elephants in Plus the Mahouts and take them all back to Ventara give them a hoots a full -time job These guys are sleeping on mattresses on the floor right and then take them back and it's a whole thing reform everybody.

It's amazing thing Yeah, oh wow so when they treat the elephants like what what do they do for an elephant that has a broken leg, so?

Most of it's just pain management right because you can only get so far so the one that got you set them in a cast Not really no you know it depends.I guess it depends on the fracture I'm not at that, but I guess it depends on the fracture But what they do is they have and Jamie you might be able to see it.It's incredible They have this giant jacuzzi like imagine a jacuzzi the size of your building here, but it's like for elephants, and it's their hydrotherapy pool.So these animals that have terrible arthritis or fucked up feet or bad legs like that, they just spend all day in the water, because then there's no weight on their limbs.

Oh, wow.

Which is really cool.Do they have medication, like anti -inflammatories for elephants?Everything, man.This place uses unbelievable Eastern medicine Western medicine this crazy hospital.There's a lot of guys talking on their Instagram unfortunately, but yeah Yeah, look at that isn't that crazy so they do these amazing things But yeah, it's a really, really cool place.And we get to do some fun stuff.

So I was really privileged to be part of those elephant rescues.It's really emotional when you see an animal like an elephant that has so much intelligence look you in the eye and be like, I'm in so much pain.And then you start to relieve it.It's cool.

I went to visit this place.Thailand a few years back that has wild elephants.So they're wild elephants, but you can ride them.And you feed them.So you make friends with them first.You feed them sugar cane.

You hang out with them.You pet them.And then they let you ride them.And they put their arm out like this, like, go ahead.

Yeah, to walk up, to step up.Like, come on, go ahead.So it lets you know, like, okay.

I didn't like the riding part.It felt wrong to me.It's a thing that all the tourists did, but my family wanted to do it, so I said, okay.But it's okay.But the animals themselves are so sweet.When you're hanging around with them, they're so...

One of them, I got a video of it on my Instagram.She was just like eating a log.Yeah, she kept chewing on this log and I'm just hanging out with her and I made this like video with me I'm like she's eating a log.I don't know why she's eating this log, but they're so she's really sweet, but it wasn't It was it was a weird.It's a weird Relationship that they have and then you wash them at the end of the trip Yeah, so you get them in the they get in this pool this big pond Yep, and you could just wash them and hang out with them.It's great like it that you do that Yeah, so that feels good to them, and I thank you well.

No.

Thank you for carrying me There's good and bad like I mean elephants have been used through history right in war in logging and circuses everything else But now I would say in the last 20 years We're finally sort of waking up to hey a lifetime of being on an elephant's back like you can see the deformities you can see the bed sores You can see the hip display or hip issues from caring people.Yeah, they're just people they're just not designed for it You know they look you think they are when you look at them, and you're like what could it you know?We're like an ant on that things back, but it it's pretty hard on them And the hardest part is actually not you or I or anybody riding them.It's walking on concrete Because elephants have these soft padded feet.They're not designed for rock hard ground so the impact of walking on pavement is actually that compounding with way added weight andwhat's actually so bad about the heat of the Asphalt too, and they're dogs like dogs hate the heat of asphalt It's horrible for them and the weirdest thing about an elephant foot if you look at its anatomy They're one of the few animals that walk on their toes, so they don't have toes splitting out like we do they walk on top of their toes So that you know imagine that compounding on heat plus weight Weird it's a weird animal yeah, they're isn't it cool that they thought that that's what a cyclops was when they found Yeah, because the skull yeah Cyclopses were a real thing dude have you ever seen have you ever been to the Explorers Club in New York City?

No?That's worth a visit.You would love it.They have the Champawat Tiger there, like the most famous man eating tiger skin.Oh, that's the one that killed like 476 people?Yep.

Is that what the number?

I actually have it on my YouTube and I don't remember the name.It's more than 400 people.It's crazy.And then Jim Corbett went and shot it.I almost named my son Corbett because I love that story so much.But they have the only four tusked elephant at the Explorers Club in New York City.

Whoa.

I'm sure, Jamie, you could find a picture of the skull.Nobody knows why.Total anomaly.Nobody's ever seen it.seen it, nobody knows why, I think it's the only one in existence, and it literally has four tusks coming out of it.

Just a weird genetic...

I think so like that's play -legged one.We look like sometimes with elk They'll get an injury when they're young and then they'll get weird deformities of their their antlers But is that different because they shed their antlers every year so they grow back in weird ways item.

That's a good question I think it's an injury to the skull Yeah, so an injury to like the area where the antler is like sometimes.I'll just have one sword Yeah, like there was a ranch that in California that had this one elk that was killing all the other elk because he didn't have antlers the same way.Oh, they got a Yeti skull.Where'd you find that, Jamie?So this one elk had on one side he had like normal antlers, uh -huh, but the other side he just had a spear Oh, wow, and so he was just stabbing all these other and it was killing the other is this guy doing Wow?It wasn't like they're used to their antlers interlocking of course.

Yeah the thing they get together and they clash of course They try to impress the ladies.Yeah, well There he is.Look at that.

Isn't that so weird?Very weird.

Four.And they're like weird the way they're going towards each other.

Which makes you realize it's a genetic deformity, right?Because it's not like this perfect symmetrical like nature made it.It's just it's a mutation of some kind.

Well, that's what's weird about genes, right?Like things go wonky all the time.Someone's born with an extra arm.You're like, OK.Yeah, exactly.Sometimes people are born with tails and you're like, oh.

So so weird dude you you and I talked about Barbarossa one time the the pigs that have those crazy Yeah, they go into their own skulls my buddy who's a vet he just cut a horn out of a sable a sable antelope Yeah, it was growing into its own skull It's great.I have a video of it on my Instagram Jamie if you want to see it But it's um it so it got an injury so it killed part of the horn and you know their antelope They're not deer so they don't shed their horns right so they grow forever So this guy had this giant horn just circling back punching into its own skull Can you imagine that?It was gnarly the pigs are nuts though, or what whatever that animals called the baba rusa Yeah, it's technically a pig.Yeah.Yeah, it's like a Indonesian warthog Yeah, but the way it goes into its own skull no matter what like it always happens Yeah, because they have to fight and break them off, and if they don't fight and break them off.It's just it's just so weird man Yeah, that is fucking crazy.

They're so cool.I wonder what those things taste like I bet they taste great I think all the swine tastes greatI had javelina, which is not technically a swine.It's a peccary.It wasn't that good.

Not good?No.That's unfortunate.It's odd.Gaming?

No, just not the best.Well, you got to think of what they're eating.

From what I know about javelinas, they eat garbage primarily.Yeah, I think that's part of the problem.

Because that's the case with bears, right?My friend Steve Rinella cooked a bear steak or a bear ham on his friend's smoker.And he said to his friend, he said, hey, you should probably clean that smoker.It smells like fish.He goes, I've never cooked fish in that smoker once.And it was just from the bear.

The bear had eaten so much fish that as he was smoking the bear, all you could smell was fish.That's disgusting.

It's like eating a seagull.

Whoa, look at this one, it's going right into its head.

That's the guy.Yeah, isn't that crazy?Wow, that's nuts.And it's, yeah, he like cuts the horn off and you can see, because the horn's a living thing.

How is that animal still alive?

Barely.Like he had millimeters of growth to go before it punched right into his brain.

That's crazy.

Gnarly.

That's so gnarly.It's like digging in.Imagine that like every day just a tiny little amount more is growing into your brain.

It's got to be this constant pain where like it just it just gets tiny bit worse all the time.

I saw him through it.

See how much into the skull it went?Like it was right there.

That's crazy.

So gross I thought you'd like that Poor dude now, he doesn't have any antlers.Yep, or horns right is it technically horns horns?Yeah, but he's still got a brain so that helps Carry on bro.

Yeah It's crazy, um, where's the final scene man?What's going on?

It's gotten pretty cold, dude.Really?Yeah, I mean...Damn it!I was hoping you'd come in with new evidence.I wish I was.

There's a group that I've been working with called Mammal Watching, like if you heard of bird watching.And they've been going into western Papua and Papua New Guinea, which is, as you know, where I think there could still be a tiny population.And so I'm working with them.They're giving trail cameras out to guys.They're still hearing legends here and there, but it's just...I don't know, it feels like the legends are getting fewer and further between, like almost over generational time, it's disappearing, if that makes sense.

Oh, that's a bad sign.

Yeah.

That means whatever's left is probably dying off, right?If at all, yeah.

And I mean, I still hold out hope, it's something I've always wanted to be, and I want it to be there, but it just, it feels like those bits of evidence that were compounding have all sort of started to fade.That sucks.I know, it really does.

It is a very interesting thing with the incredible variety of wildlife that we have that we're so fascinated by the ones that might not be alive.The things like the thylacine or the giant sloth.Yeah.I remember I watched this documentary.On the giant sloth, there was this one scientist, this biologist, who had spent an inordinate amount of time, like years, in the Amazon, looking for a giant sloth, and was realizing at some point in time during the documentary that he might have ruined his career.Overdoing it, yeah.

Because he might have been chasing something that doesn't exist.And it's this wild gamble, if he listens to these people and they're telling him the truth, because all the natives are like, oh yeah, bro, they're out here.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.Right around the next turn.We'll find him tomorrow.

Right over the next mountain.

I've been there.But you know, if you don't follow those leads, like, do you know what the saula is?The Asian unicorn?

I've heard that, yeah.

Same thing.Same story, but real animal.And you know, there was basically one ever seen by Western science, an animal named Martha, and for yearsscientists, Western scientists were going into Vietnam and Laos.They're going, yeah, yeah, we have this thing called the Sala, the Asian unicorn.And they're like, shut up, you know.

And then all of a sudden, it turns out here's this giant bovid that still exists.Yeah, and nobody knows whether they still exist now right there.That's it Yeah, so basically there's been three or four maybe more that have ever been seen Most of them caught in poachers snares like this one But then really cool guy named Bill Robichaud Got a call once from a prince and he had caught one and it was in his village and he flew in there and overnight the poor thing died and And that was the only time a single Westerner in history has ever seen a live Salah.And this guy had it, and then he's like, can we please preserve it?And the king was like, nah, we're going to eat it.And they ate it.

Whoa.

Got nothing out of it.Yeah.He's got pictures and stuff, so you know it's all real.But they call it the unicorn because its horns are so symmetrical that when you look at it from a side profile, it looks like one horn coming out of its head.

Like that.

Exactly.Yeah.

That's weird.

Yeah.They're very cool.But it's a bovid.It's a cattle.That's that's not one.I don't know why they're using that photo.

Oh, how odd yeah, but that's the same thing as these You know these things around giant sloths and right and thylacine and Bigfoot and everything else.

It's they are out there You know some of them not all of them But they are out there, and if you don't follow the lead if you ignore it, then you miss things like that Well, this is also like when you think about things like the Amazon like if you ever see footage of the Amazon from above you go Oh There's no way, you know, that's so big you let you look down and you go.Oh, well, there's no way, you know No, this is this is way too big.There's no way there's a bunch of people Scouring every inch of that place.

I mean given there are still groups of human beings Uncontacted a lot like my friend Paul Rosalie.Yeah, I know Paul.

Yeah, he's come in contact with them.Yeah multiple times Yeah, see if you can get some aerial footage of flying over

the Amazon I mean it's it's in multiple countries it's what is it oh it's crazy Bolivia Brazil Argentina yeah it's huge it's so fucking big and I had a similar experience in New Guinea talking about thylacine where we got on a plane in a place called Tufi and flew to another area like look at this it was just like this for four hours we didn't see one building Amazon and 4k so just a Matt look there is no fucking way.

You know you know what's in there.

No way There's probably a bunch of shit in there that no one has found and then there's oh Undeniably there are and then there's stuff.You know like you'll get a kick out of this Loch Ness monster Hmm.What do you think it is maybe a sturgeon or something like that Jamie?What do you think the Loch Ness monster is I mean?

I think they know but I don't know Whale dick What?

Whaledick.Whaledick?Whaledick.

Not a narwhal dick?

A whaledick?A whaledick?A whaledick?A whaledick?A whaledick?A whaledick?

A whaledick?A whaledick?A whaledick?A whaledick?A whaledick?A whaledick?

A whaledick?

A whaledick?A whaledick?It kind of answers a lot of, like, that's a whale dick right there.That is a whale dick.

But that photo, I'm pretty sure, is a proven hoax.That one is.Yeah.

I think that photo is like a guy, like, made something out of wood and, like, floated it in the water and took a picture.

Is that what the story behind that is?

There's something along those lines.No, Loch Ness Monster isn't a whale penis, professor says.Oh, okay.Well, if the internet professor says it, then...

Oh, a professor!

Oh, well, let's take him seriously.He's out there.There's no whales there.If you're the type of professor that they call upon when they're trying to figure out if something's a whale dick...Maybe...

Sir, would you please study these nine whale penis and tell us your thoughts on this?Maybe that's what happened to the...

It was his claim, and then he said he was just kind of messing around.Well, I'm sticking with it.I like it.

I like the whale dick theory.Oh, so he's the guy that proposed it?Yeah.Oh.Darn it.I like this walked back his salacious claim.

That's so funny Maybe that's the guy that was looking for the the giant sloth.Yeah, it's like I need a new angle This giant sloth thing did not pan out I like it big if you're a guy looking for a giant sloth in the Amazon like where do you look like?

Good luck finding it you have to find geographically isolated areas you know, because they're little pockets, right?If little pockets of, okay, people aren't coming in here, animals aren't going out, there's a big ring of mountains, there's whatever it happens to be.I met a guy who said he guaranteed he knew, you know, all these people like this, but I always enjoy the story of it, that there was this pocket in Peru that was completely geographically isolated by the mountains, and that's where they were.And the idea is that these areas remain unchanged, right?It's like an island, basically, in the Amazon.Like, things just don't change, because it's so isolated from everything else.

Well, I think the idea also is that giant sloths, where we know they existed in North America, that whenever whatever happened that ended the Ice Age, the, you know, Younger Dryas impact, that it didn't affect things below the equator or at the equator.It was more of a northern hemisphere thing.

Yeah, because the climate shift was so much stronger.

Exactly.And so most of the animals that died off, if you look at the...I think it was 65 % of North American megafauna died off during this very short window.that didn't happen in South America, and that we're just guessing that they're dead.Because if there was a healthy population...are there in the wild?

I think there's 5 ,000.Something like that, yeah.

It's gone way up, by the way.It was down to 400.

Fun fact, more tigers in captivity in Texas than there are in all of the wild of the world.Texas crazy, man People's yard.Yeah, yeah private collections in Texas.There's more tigers than all the wild of the world It's such an insane statement that should not exist.

Yeah Get away with it.

It's just it's just a wild place like for all intents and purposes.

Yeah, that's hilarious wild for people Dude, I love Texas.Every time I come to Texas, I'm like, this place is great.I always have fun.Everybody's so nice, too.

Exactly.

That's the best part.It's like nobody scowls at you.You get in the elevator, and they're like, hey, how's your day going?And you're like, good.I'll tell you how it's going.

A lot of people, especially coastal elites, I would like to say like people, coastal snobs, they have this idea of it being like filled with rednecks and ignorant people and foolish people.It's not that way at all, especially Austin.Austin is like one of the most like liberal, easygoing, progressive cities.But, like, even the progressives here, they're, like, more reasonable.

It's, like, down to earth.Yeah.It's not like extremism, right?

Well, they're definitely more crazy than they were 20 years ago when I first started coming here.

Okay.

But way less crazy than, like, liberals in L .A.Yeah.Or liberals in Cal - or liberals in New York.

Just where they're - where it's just extreme, right?Like, protests and all these - Yeah.

Yeah.Well, it's like, there's a saying about Austin, keep Austin weird and surrounded.

Yeah.

Surrounded yeah, what is the and surrounded surrounded by red people like it's all red states around you And this is pocket of blue that's in the center of this red state.I think that's goodfor everybody.I think that's good.It's a balance.And the liberals that want to turn Texas blue, like, don't.

You're going to ruin it.You're going to ruin it for you too.You don't get it.Like balance is important.It's like you can't kill all the predators because then the deer get overrun and you're hitting them with cars and you can't kill all the deer because then there's no food.And I mean that's what they did when they were market hunting.

Balance.And you need balance with humans too.100 percent.And the Austin balance is a great balance.Yeah.It's a liberal city surrounded by like hardcore Republicans with guns and tigers.

It makes for nice people.It's like it's a good mix.

Yeah, and a misunderstood mix.It's interesting on the outside.

They have a very distorted perception of what Texas is especially Austin yeah well how do you feel as a California try I mean you bounced around but as a California transplant did you bring your acai bowls and you're you know you're like I need all that California stuff here what stuff I don't know I mean I don't know that's like that's the thing though right it's like all the Californians coming here and messing it up kind of thing I was never one of those yeah so my what I got out of California was the comedy store and work yeah and then jujitsu So, like, you get all that here.

Austin is arguably the jiu -jitsu capital of the world right now.

Really?Oh, yeah.Oh, that's interesting.Is this where the new league is based out of?No, that's you mean the the UFC League?

Yeah.No, that's in Vegas.They do that in Vegas.Yeah, because that's where the UFC's headquarters are.But Austin has Kings world, which is Gordon Ryan's place.It's got B team is out here.

Shanji Ribeiro is out here.Okay.There's a bunch of Gracie Baja schools out here.There's multiple Tenth Planet schools out here.It's like there's an incredible amount of jujitsu out here.

So what I'm hearing isthis is where to bring Run Nation.Bring it to Austin.

No, keep that!They'll never win!

The only people that are gonna win are those wild New Zealand dudes and those Australian guys.Those guys will win every time.They're built for that shit.No.But it's just a great place.city period.

Artistically, it's always been like a great music city.Now it's arguably the comedy capital of the country.

There's so many comedians here now, right?

It's because they got here and they went, oh, this is way better.There's no traffic.No one's nice.Yeah.And you can do whatever you want.And also, there's a lot of places to do comedy.

And just on my street where my club is, there's five or six other clubs that have opened up since we opened up.

Oh, wow.

So it's incredible.So if you're a young comic or an established comic that just wants to work, Workout material you could go go to my club you hop down the street to the sunset room Which is my friend Brian's club right down the street?And you go down the street to the creek in the cave an amazing club.That's just cool two seconds away Oh cool.It's like one block over.That's everything's close the Vulcan which is right there.

Everything's right there, huh?

It's incredible.It's incredible.It's great.I'm glad you're so stoked here.I remember when The first maybe a second time we hung out down at your show in not Westlake.Where was it Woodland Hills right?

Yeah, and you were like dude.I gotta go Get out of here.

I wanted to get out a long time ago.Yeah.And fun fact, we started the podcast because I was depressed because I had to move back from Colorado.Oh, really?So I lived in Colorado for a little bit, but my wife got pregnant.And when she was pregnant, it was like, if you are an altitude, we're at 8 ,500 feet above sea level.

It's rough.Yeah.And we went back to LA for a short period of time.She was fine.Yeah, and then we went back to Colorado, and she was sick again.Yeah, okay reading about low birth weight Premature birth is a lot of like really bad things that happen to people especially if you're not athletic

So you move to these high altitude areas, huh by the way working out there when I worked out there I was I thought I was gonna die and then I went to Philadelphia and And I had to do some gigs in Philadelphia, and I worked out, and I felt like I could run through a wall.You just had so much oxygen in your blood.So much.I was like, this is incredible.That's the only time in my life I've ever been altitude adjusted, like where my body had adapted.And I was like, this is a massive advantage.

No wonder why fighters do it.And you don't acclimate being up at that height over months or anything else?

Oh, I did.

I certainly did.Like, I could work out there.

I did jujitsu in Boulder.So Boulder was...I was in a place called Gold Hill, which is 8 ,500 feet above sea level.Boulders like 55 okay, so I was doing shout -out to a mall Easton my friend a mall He was a jiu -jitsu gym in Boulder great place, okay, and when I was training there.I was fine I mean you trained, but you definitely could feel it It was and I had trained there once before When I had come from LA and I was like whoo this altitudes rough like it's like working out in Denver like whoo Yeah, feel it.Yeah, but not like you feel it at 8 ,500 feet 8 ,500 feet was I do this every day these kettlebell workouts, and I was doing it, and I'm used to what it does.

And I was like, this is crazy.This feels like I'm drunk.It felt like I drank a bottle of whiskey and tried to work out.

I was so tired.I went to the Himalayas like maybe four or five years ago to look for red pandas up in the trees, you know, those cute little guys.And day one, I literally maybe made it 400 feet and then had to sit down and I was like, all right, we're trekking for pandas.We're heading up into the mountains We'll find these pandas and I just I don't remember what the elevation was But I'd come from Santa Barbara where I live which is sea level to this high Himalayas and I I just sit downevery 15 minutes for the first couple days.

I saw the most horrifying video the other day of this guy who was on one of those summit hikes and slipped.His friends watched him slide.Like all the way down to his death?Just sliding down ice and snow and couldn't stop.And they just had to stand there and watch this guy slide away.What can you do?

Nothing.That's so crazy.Was he climbing?Yeah.He was making it to the summit and slipped.Yeah.

It's brutal.And slipped off the, you know, just a very clear path and slipped off of it and just started sliding.And you realize, oh, he's gone.That's it.He's going to go off forever.That's crazy.

Oh, it's horrible.

I always want to like take my kids to do these things with me, you know, and I'm like I want to take them to track and see the mountains and catch crocodiles and do all these various things that I like to do and you realize it's like my six -year -old can barely walk in a straight line without falling down.You know what I mean?Like imagine taking him on a mountain track.

It's so scary, but on the other hand like you don't want to protect them too much You want to expose them to a certain amount of danger because I think it's good for them.It's a hundred percent Yeah, it's good for them experience.It's also good for them to have like a broader Understanding of what the world is right like the world is a bunch of different things.That's right.It's not just Santa Monica That's right.Yeah.

Oh, there's Costa Rica.Yeah.Oh, this is crazy.Look at these bugs It's nice for them.It's important.It's valuable.

We live in a bubble.America's great.I say this to my wife all the time.I'm so patriotic.I love this country.It's great, but it's a bubble.

Everything's easy.It's safe.You can order shit on your phone.It shows up at your house.There's a million restaurants to pick from.Obviously, it depends where you live, but you get my point.

And then you get out of here and it's like, okay, everything closes.at 4 p .m.m.Like go figure out your food.

You know what I mean?

And then you're like, okay well now I now I have two kids who are hungry and we're in the jungle or it's you know in a town that everything shuts down on Sundays or whatever.It's like figure it out.Those are important lessons for little kids to be dynamic and figure out like how the rest of the world works and that they have to figure out how to get things when it's not all just at the touch of your, you know, phone.

Also to recognize that there's gonna be times where you don't have food.Yeah.Like, people are just so accustomed to having food anytime they're hungry, and in fact, sometimes when they're not even hungry, they're just bored, so they start stuffing their face when they're bored, which never existed in all of human history.

No, no.Dude, I just read, you might be well -read on this, but I just read something interesting.The eight -hour night of sleep?Yes.Invented by a mattress company?You know about this?

I didn't know it was invented by a mattress company, but I do know that traditionally in the past, people would do two sleeps.That's right.

Yeah.Yeah.Yeah, so you know about what I'm talking about.I just read this literally yesterday in one of my Doomscrolling things.

It's interesting because I did that a lot when I was young.where I would wake up in the middle of the night and I'd just decide to watch TV.Do something for an hour.I'd watch TV for a few hours and then I'd go back to sleep.But it was just, for me, it was just like, Being indulgent because I was single and free and you know 25 years old and I had my own apartment I'm like I do whatever the fuck I want Yeah, get up at 3 o 'clock in the morning watch TV for a couple hours and go to sleep till noon Why not sit around in your boxers eat cereal?

Yeah, it's just part is a myth.Oh it is Everything I don't bring it up to miss Jamie.No whale dicks.No killer of dreams Same Instagram video you guys saw and I thought it was interesting too.

Yeah That is the myth.I think that might be a myth I think the to sleep thing it was a way that people would get up in the middle of the night And but you also have to think I think a lot of people went to bed way earlier because it got dark We didn't have electricityAnd there's a normal circadian rhythm where it gets dark out, you eat, maybe hang out in front of a campfire for a little while, and then you go to bed.If you've ever gone camping, that's what most people do.Stay up till 4 in the morning when you're camping.Not without booze You've got booze might be up late Telling stories and laughing and if anybody breaks out a guitar and you're fucked You mentioned pandas I was gonna ask you about a meme I'd seen going around the same places that pandas are fake Did you see the zoo in China that painted the dogs?

Did you see the zoo in China that painted the Pomeranians?

I did see that.

But the thing is about pandas is that, and I went down a rabbit hole with this the other night, There were no depictions of pandas in like ancient Chinese history.

No.Is that true?Yeah, it is true.

Yeah, they didn't show up until like, God, I want to say it was like the 16th century or 17th century.

That's bizarre.I wonder why that is.Because, you know, there were explorers going through the area and all of that.

Well, the idea was that maybe they were engineered to eat bamboo, because bamboo, if you think about it, is like a very prolific plant.Absolutely.Like I have bamboo on my property.That's it just grows like, it's crazy how well it grows, it grows so quickly.

And there's almost no nutritional value in it either.Right.

Yeah.So here's the panda.Interesting.The claim is largely true, with nuance.So what did you search into perplexity, our AI sponsor?Is it true that pandas aren't in Chinese ancient history?

The claim is largely true, though with nuance.Okay.Giant panda strikingly absent from China's classical cultural record.Unlike the dragon, which is weird, tiger, by the way, Our conversation about it made it to The View.I don't know if you know about that.

Dude, I texted you, I texted you.You changed your status to Dragon Believer.It was so funny.I'm like, Joy Behar's like, he believes in drag?

Oh my god, this is wonderful So good Okay, so when did it happen?Unlike the dragon tiger crane or tortoise doesn't appear on ancient bronzes or pottery in Tang poetry song paintings One you want a y -u -a -n.How do you say that?Beats me.Yuan drama, Ming novels, or Q -I -N -G, Qing?Qing.

Before the late 20th century, it had essentially no symbolic role in Chinese civilization.Its status as a national treasure is a post -1949 invention.

That's bizarre.

After pandas became famous, famous globally in the 20th century, Chinese scholars went back and combed old texts looking for them.A few candidate references exist.The Shi Jing, Book of Odes and Shang Xu mentioned a creature called Pi or Mo, which some modern scholars retroactively identified as the panda, but the identification is contested.And those same words were also used for leopards, tapir, did I say it?Tapir, yeah.Tapir.

or mythical beasts.Emperor Wen of Han, second century BCE, reportedly had a Mo buried in his mother's tomb, sometimes claimed as a panda.But that's weird.

That is very bizarre.

Fragmentary, ambiguous, and rare, nothing like the deep iconographic tradition around dragons, phoenixes, or tigers.Why the app Rogan style claim?How dare you perplexity That is so funny.It's a Rogan style claim.

I think is essentially on the podcast also It's listening right now because I sometimes will bring in questions I've asked from like last month and I'd be like are you and I'm like no I didn't this is a separate show

but it's like all locked into the AI history Oh, I I asked it a question once and it said as you have previously stated.No way.I was like, whoa Yeah, I was trying to find out like how many views something had gotten.Yeah, and you're like as you've previously told you yeah You're using me This is why AI is so fucked up.Yeah, thank you trusting me. I'm trusting you don't trust me at all I get all my information from you Dude, that's so weird.

I cuz you weren't weird cuz it's not like, you know, okay, there's no mention of ducks I get it cuz there's ducks everywhere who cares right like so why do we write about them?But it's not something like that.The pandas were never so abundant that it was not worth talking about Yeah, see if where this theory who invented this theory that they were engineered to eat bamboo So who did this engineering in this theory?

Well, that's a question.Like who did dogs, right?Why do we have dogs?Right.Which is really weird.You know why?

I have a dog.He's a King Charles Cavalier.

Mm hmm.You know those?

I do.They're very cute.Adorable.Yeah.He's so cute.I love him to death.

But he he's made an appearance on the podcast.Oh, nice.He's the furthest thing from a wolf as far as we've taken a wolf.Yeah.To make it so fucking adorable and cute.But that is what it is that was at one point in time a wolf, and somehow or another we engineered it down to a dog that's adorable and just wants to cuddle with you and sit in your lap and play.

And weighs 25 pounds.

So what happened?And how did we do that?And could you do that with a bear?And could you get a bear, then take that bear and make it something?I think it's the only bear that's a true herbivore as well.

Yeah, I think that's correct.Yeah, which is also bear.Yeah weird.So what have we done their digestive tract?

Yeah changed Yeah, and they're required like it's like koalas.I think they onlyeat eucalyptus.

That's right Yep, fucking weird bizarre really also has no nutritional value and you probably know this makes them like high basically I was looking up who did it and started going on the thing that it's not no one is known for the theory it's because they're actually Carnivores, oh, they're a taxon.

I'll say so that means Wallace.I think are the ones that are pure herbivores Yeah, they definitely are but they're not bears at all.

They're marsupial.They just call them koala bears I say so they say they are taxonomic carnivores.That means taxonomically They're in the order carnivora if that makes sense, so but it says with a short digestive tract and gut microbiomes of a meat -eater Yeah Yeah, it's interesting.

So they're vegans.

But you could selectively breed for anything to some degree if you had enough time.

But look, but that's the other thing, like, why are they so cute?

That I cannot answer.

Because they're so much cuter than any other bear by far.

Like that face, even with the teeth out, like, aww, buddy.They also have the best PR campaign in history.Like they're, they're the dumbest animals in the world.You know this, right?Really?Oh my God.

I don't know if that's the right terminology, but like, You can hand a panda an apple and it will hand you its baby.I'm not joking, dude.You can find videos of this.

Well, isn't that more evidence that it's raised, that it's been engineered because it doesn't have the instincts that a wild animal would have?Dude, their parental instincts are bonkers.

Bonkers.Like they will drop their baby and go for an apple.That's how zookeepers take their babies away.Dude, it's like these guys are trying to go extinct.I swear to God.

It's insane So where did the theory come from see if you can find out where the theory came from that they were engineered to eat bamboo I asked that exact question.It says just which just starts showing up on my Instagram about three months ago, huh?

Did Instagram you never know what you're gonna get of course, but that's what's fun.Yeah, as long as you don't buy into it, right?dude The problem is even like me and what I do as a biologist I can I mean I'd say 90 % I can tell but there's a 10 % where I can't tell if it's AI or real or and I'm looking at it going well that behavior is wrong, so it has to be AI, but it's crazy and what's going on in like the animal space with the AI mock -ups now.

I watched one today where it was a wildebeest that a leopard had jumped on its back and the wildebeest jumped into the water and the crocodiles killed the leopard on its back and the wildebeest got away.Totally fake?

It has to be!It sounds fake, I mean it sounds insane.

Wildebeest is smart all of a sudden, so smart that it figured out all I have to do is get to those crocs and the crops Also, you're gonna give yourself more problems?

Right, by going into the water, yeah.By the way, multiple crocodiles, so why wouldn't they just eat you, too?They would, they'd just kill everything.They would kill everybody.Everything, if they wouldn't care at all.

If both of you are compromised, it's not gonna just grab the leopard on your back, it's gonna grab you, too, because you can't get away.

Anything they can get, yeah.

So it's fake.

It's crazy.

But it was also fun.

Yeah, exactly, it's also fun.Ooh, get away.I just found it, actually, in a different video, but yeah, here it is right here.Yeah, I know, that's a mistake.

It's a longer cut of the video, but you can see by like the Saturation of the leopards a little fake and like the way the claws are kind of like there's no claws It's almost like soft pawing it.Do you know what I mean, right?

Look how he's hanging on this could be a video of a real wheel of bees getting eaten by a croc and they just added the Leopard to the bed very well pretty it's pretty amazing.Look.No, that's Yeah, no, bro, that's real guys stop This is different.This one's different because this one the will also By the way, the wildebeest is doing way too well in that struggle.Yes.Because when the crocodiles do get wildebeest, they get them quick.

The leopard got him this one.Someone put some time into this.

Yeah.When the crocs get a hold of something.It's really it's a rap dude I just not much of a struggle.

I just did I'm probably not supposed to talk about this yet But I just did this show for discovery that I've been working on for a couple years where Basically I put myself in the perspective of prey so I would have been in the perspective of that wildebeest through engineering and doing all these like builds and stuff like that and I lowered myself into a pond of crocodiles and It was insane.I had a cage around me, so a very small cage.It was basically a coffin.

Made out of what, though?What's a cage made out of?

Whatever the guys in the workshop could find.I think steel.

Did they try it out first?

No.I mean, we tested it with nothing in it, and we're like, okay, this is working.I could send it to Jamie.I have it on my phone, but it was...

Send it to Jamie.

Okay, dude, it was crazy.It was nuts.Why would you do that?I don't know, man.

Well, it's like those shark cages, man.Those things don't hold up.You've seen that before, right?

Oh, yeah, where they go straight Through the shark cage yeah, yeah, it's craziness.It's absolute craziness.I'll find here we go We did I don't know why I did.Oh, you know what Jamie go on if you don't mind go on the discovery Instagram I think it's there good good luck finding it I can send you something in the meantime, but I think they posted like a short teaser of it It was nuts though, so I'm in this little cage.We rigged up these cables just you wearing scuba gear So I had a scuba tank with me in case the thing broke and I ended up on the bottom Sounds dumber out loud.

And then you have so much oxygen before they can get you out?

30 minutes.30 minutes before.Oh god, dude.And then I was talking to our guy, so, you know, it was...TV production, so there's like stunt coordinators and all the stuff, and I was like so okay cable snaps I go down I grab the regulator I've got 30 minutes to 40 minutes in my tank, then what he's like Oh, I have this grappling hook.We'll throw it hook it with the grappling hook and pull it out I'm like bro.

What if you hit a log?

He's like hmm hadn't thought about that You might have to get out and swim

Oh, I couldn't.Can you get out?I couldn't.I locked myself into the cage.There was no getting out.You did this?

Yeah, it was pretty dumb.It was fun.It was cool though, because it was such a unique perspective.But I told my wife when I got home from that one, I was like, Yeah, I think this is my last year doing this shit.It's getting too much now.

But that's the thing about those kind of shows.It's like it's not enough to just see the animals.You have to do something that makes it spectacular enough to get people to tune in.Like that polar bear one where the guy got in that big plexiglass box.That literally inspired the whole series, I swear to God.

Hate that video.It's crazy.

I mean I watched it a hundred times I know I don't hate it, but I hate the idea of it because it just shows you how Predatory polar bears are and how they don't give a fuck.It's just trying to get at that guy isn't it crazy Yeah, it's not I mean just actively hunting him.Yeah, it's so different than the other bears which is like If you get killed by a grizzly, generally it's like you fucked up.Yeah.Like you stumbled upon one that's old.

Startled it.Yeah.

Or you startled it, or you zigged when you should have zagged.

Have you seen the city in Russia, the abandoned island city where the polar bears have taken over?No.You gotta see this.It's incredible.

I've seen videos of Russia of people like getting chased by polar bears in their town.

Oh, yeah Yeah, there's like the one where the guy jumps on the snowmobile.Yeah runs after him and barely gets away There's a whole area in the Bering Sea that was a I want to say a former mining town or maybe fishing town and people moved out because it collapsed for whatever reason this place look at this and the polar bears have just moved into town and Oh, they're living in the house.

They're living in the house.

Look at this.

They took it over as a den.Completely took it over.Wow.How cool is this?That's amazing.

They're just fully moved in, like living in the house.That's a drone shot, but this is not AI.This is legit.

They're so cool looking.

Oh, they're the coolest.They're so interesting.How amazing is this?that though?Imagine like, imagine you're out on a boat and you're like, oh man, we've been sailing for three weeks.Oh look, there's like a little village.

Let's pop in there for a day.

That'd be a cool movie.

Yeah, that would be a good movie.You know what I mean?Yeah.

A bunch of people like, oh, we found a village.

Yeah.Let's go there.You like head in and turn, you know, like set up and then all of a sudden you're surrounded.Yeah, it's all polar bear.

You're like, why is there so much shit in this house?Because they probably just shit right in the house.Oh, yeah.So they're pawing at the drones.Yeah.Wow.

Look how cool they're hanging out the window like, hey, Tom.

Come on over, have a drink.You could put me in the glass box on this island.This looks so cool.It is so cool.They're an amazing animal.They really are.

But they're so weird.They're so long, too.

I went and did a sort of a trek with them.

Where are they getting food on that island if they're the only ones there?

Oh, well, they're the only ones there, but they're seals and all kinds of other shit.

They'll be hunting all the marine mammals in the area.Yeah, they're the cleanup crew.And they swim huge distances.

Oh, yeah.

A couple have turned up in Iceland.Did you know that?What?Yeah.There's, I think, two or three cases of polar bears that have swum from Greenland to Iceland and made it.How far is that?

I'm not sure, but it's not close, obviously.That's crazy.It took the Vikings like 100 years to do it.Yeah.That's crazy.Yeah.

They can swim that far?

200 miles.200 miles.Whoa.Hopefully this isn't a myth.

This one says it was shot dead after it did it.In 2008?

Yeah, and it swam across, right?200 miles!How crazy is that?Just take a swim one day and end up colonizing an entirely new place.

So it's like the David Goggins of polar bears.

Bro, I can make it.Feel no pain.

Operation to kill the animals captured on film.Let's fucking go.

Let's fucking go.

Let's see that video.

I got an error.

404.

Yeah.

but isn't that crazy 200 miles swim as a bear This says it might have well jumped off with just a piece of ice somewhere So it could have you know got a little float right it could have hung out for a little bit sure but still even 50 miles It's pretty far.

Well.They can last so long with the fat That's on their body, and they like snooze float.

Have you seen that yeah?They won't just actively swim, they'll kind of snooze float in between hunting.

It's kind of amazing.

In the winter, they have so much fat, yeah, in the winter, stored up, getting ready to chill, because they don't eat as much during the summer.Am I getting this right?I think so.Yeah, you see them snooze floating in the ocean.

Well, they eat a lot in the summer to get ready for the winter, right?

They're Mattat.I know they eat a lot in midsummer.They don't eat a lot.It's too hot for them to actively hunt I know that How hot is it too hot for them to act dude?I went to Manitoba Canada to go see them on foot and it was like 75 degrees at the height of the day or maybe 70 and Yeah, they wouldn't be hunting polar bears were frequently tamed during the Middle Ages what?

This is no bears been captured alive in Iceland Oh, but since then, receding North Pole ice is diminishing their hunting and mating grounds and jeopardizing their survival.

Oldest sighting in Iceland was 890.Whoa.16 years after the first people got there.

Wow.But what's crazy if you think about that is all it would take if people weren't there is two polar bears over the course of polar bear's lifetime to wash up on the island.And then you have a population of polar bears there.Do you know what I mean?The male swims there, five years later the female swims there, boom, there's a population of polar bears.There's plenty of food, you know.

What an adventurous female it would have to be.True.1252, Henry III took delivery of a white bear, sent to him as a gift from King Henry.IV of Norway.He decided to keep it in the Tower of London.The bear was either too big or too exciting to be taken to Oxfordshire, where there had been a royal menagerie at Woodstock since Henry I's reign.

What's more, it needed to fish.So the beast was sent to the tower, and from what we could tell, it was well looked out for, although it had a muzzle and a chain to wear while on land.The sheriffs of London were obliged to lay out more than a shilling a week for its upkeep, which added up over a year to roughly the expected income of a knight.

Wild story no guns to stop him.What the hell would you do it to him bows and arrows?

I guess and spears the bear had a long swimming leash The the man wore waterproof clothes what the keeper so it had a keeper The bear came with a Norwegian keeper, and the keeper was allowed to lead fishing trips into Thames.How do you say that?Thames?The Thames River, yeah.Thames, which the tower sat.The men wore waterproof clothes, again, billed to the crown.

The bear had a long swimming leash.There were salmon in the Thames in those days, so while being in London was probably not half as so pleasing to the bear sitting on an ice floe in the Arctic Circle, it sure beat working.

The way this guy wrote this is hilarious, by the way.Do you know what a sloth bear is?

Yeah.

Mean is anything.There's their Japan right India a India and into Nepal in that area Amazing they're like a perfect example of not the size of the dog in the fight But the fight in the dog because they're not a very big bear, but they will take on Tigers and everything else They a certain group.I don't know the name of a tribe I think in India used to capture sloth bears And they'd put a ring in its nose like like a nose ring, and then this barbaric it doesn't happen anymore But then they would take the bear onto the street as a street performerI just read about this and they would light a fire and put like a big sheet metal over it And then walk the sloth bear onto it so the bear would dance because its feet were burning yeah, and Yeah, they call it the dancing bears.I guess was in Nepal and Yeah, a horrific thing that people use so rude imagine doing that though and being like oh this will be this will be worth a shilling or two Like, well, bear baiting, they used to do that with dogs.

They used to have a chained up bear and they would allow dogs to fight the bear.Yeah, it's crazy.They did that with bulls.Yeah.

You know, they'd have a chained up bull and have Dogs attack the bull yeah, they used in South Africa in the early colonial days They used to do with baboons and let the dogs and the baboons fight and bet money on it.Yeah people are so gross But you know like I always have this weird stance do I agree with any of it of course not But we wouldn't be where we were and care about wildlife and conservation if we hadn't made some of those mistakes Is that what that is, a mistake?

It's also, if you hadn't seen half of your friends get cut in half by swords, your understanding of the value of life is probably completely distorted.Completely, yeah.You're living in a horrific time.Everyone's dying of the plague.Violence is entertainment.Right.

Do you know what I mean?That is something to do, and life value is incredibly low.Life comes and goes.

The Coliseum was when?When was that?

I don't know I should but I don't I think it was 2 ,000 plus years ago.

Yeah somewhere around there when they first started having these crazy games there Do you know they used to flood the Coliseum and do ship battles?Yeah, I went there a few years back, and we went on a tour is it cool I was amazing yeah, but it's also like you stand there, and you try to take it in like when I go to these ancient places I try to just like sit and just Try to imagine like when you're actually it's one thing to imagine when you're looking at a photograph or a video, but when you're actuallyin the spot, yeah, you know like when you're in Athens, yeah, and you're like, yeah Standing at the Parthenon.Okay.

What the fuck was this like?

Yeah?Yeah, what was this like and that was like the center of?

Everything everything yeah democracy exactly yeah exactly and also drugs those guys were high as fuck they were all doing drugs as we went to Ulysses Lucis Lucis rather and That's the place where they had the Eleusinian mystery schools And they would people would go on this track where they wouldn't eat and walk from Athens and they would have these psychedelic rituals Uh -huh, and you know you're in this place where they did it you could like feel it.

It's weird Well, I mean obviously not synthetic, but were they was it just mushrooms.What were what were these psychedelics totally no?

But they have had residue from some of these clay pots that had ergot in it.What's ergot?So ergot is a fungus that has a very similar psychoactive effect as LSD.Oh, interesting.I think it has lysergic acid in it.Let's find out what the...

It also kills people.There's been cases of ergot poisoning through wheat.

Oh, interesting.

People have died.And they also think it's connected to the Salem witch trials.

Oh, driving people crazy.Yeah.

So the Salem witch trials, I don't know if this has been proven or if this is just a theory, but the idea is that if you have an early frost and that some of the wheat survives, but the wheat can have this fungus on it that grows ergot, this ergot fungus.And so you're eating this wheat and you're making beer out of it.And like, everybody's tripping balls.I think, oh, it's a fucking witch on accidental acid.

That's hilarious.Yeah.Probably like, man, this beer is really good.Right.Until there's a witch.And then you're like, man, this beer is bad.

Well, there's also, I mean, imagine, first of all, you've got a bunch of crazy superstitions and people are fighting.everything already, because you don't know anything about science.You don't understand a thing.Right.Yeah.So there's a lot of fears.

And then there's a lot of people that claim to be the wise people of the town, and they tell you crazy stories about witches, and you're like, oh, witches are real.Yep.Oh, for sure.So lysergic acid amides.Ergo metrine all these share lysergic acid Ergolene core which is why LSD?Semi -synthesized from lysergic acid is chemically related to ergot compounds and all of this comes from that mold on the way Wasn't there a time where they did it to people on purpose in France?

I feel like this might have been like a CIA thing see if you can find that story God or LSD ergot hmm.I think they they, because I think they were experimenting on the effects of ergot.And I think they like picked a town and said, let's see.Because we know they've done that before.

We definitely know.Just hit whole places.Yeah, let's see.Let's see.

Yeah, why not?Think about what we found out during MKUltra that the CIA was running brothels, and they would give the Johns LSD.Really?It was literally called Operation Midnight Climax.And so what they would do is they would have these two -way mirrors set up.This is proven.

This guy named Jolly West, who was the head of MKUltra, who would say, let's find out what happens.You give people acid, what's the best way?You get a bunch of people and do it to them in a way that you know totally unethically But this is a way they're not gonna tell yeah, you did it to him because they went to a whorehouse Yeah, no one's gonna admit They went to a whorehouse right so you get these guys they go to the get to prostitute the prostitutes like would you like a drink?Of course yeah Hard day at work here the guy sits down.He's thinking fuck.This is gonna be great

Oh my god candles talking to him you find anything about the French thing Here it is. I likely think of the infamous first point st. Esprit cursed bread incident of 1951 Long -running allegation that wasn't ergot at all, but a secret CIA US Army LSD experiment what happened in point st Esprit this small town in southern France hundreds of residents suddenly suffered violent hallucinations convulsions insomnia and psychotic episodes over several days 250 people were affected 50 were committed to asylum seven died, including some who leapt from windows, convinced they could fly, or being chased by snakes and tigers.The official French investigation blamed ergot -contaminated rye flour from a local baker.Classic ergotism, St. Anthony's fire.That's another case of it.Some later scientists, or maybe the same story.Some later scientists propose alternative culprits, mercury, fungicide, nitrogen, trichloride, bread bleaching agents, or mycotoxins from Aspergillus fumigatus.

I call bullshit on this this seems like something where they test.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's like a CIA thing 2009 American investigative journalist HP Al Barreira Al Barreira Lee Al Borrelli jr.Published a terrible mistake arguing that Ponce esprit was actually a covert LSD field test run jointly by CIA's MK Yeah, MK ultra programs and the US Army Special Operations Division at Fort Detrick with Swiss drug company Sandos, who first synthesized LSD, allegedly supplying the compound.So his evidence included a DNA sample.CIA document quoting a Sandoz representative saying the Pont Saint -Esprit secret is being discussed alongside references to LSD.

Oh, they definitely did it.

Yeah, it sounds way more likely.

That's way more likely.

In testimony, he attributed former CIA SOD scientist Frank Olson, who died in a 1953 fall from a New York City hotel room after being dosed with LSD by his colleague, Colleagues?What a bunch of assholes, seriously.These guys are just dosing each other.An admitted MKUltra incident.Interviews with former US intelligence officials why most historians remain skeptical serious pushback came quickly So symptoms don't match LSD victims had gangrene like vasoconstriction weeks -long psychosis and physical necrosis Consistent with ergot alkaloids not a single acute LSD dose interesting LSD is water -soluble and heat -sensitive so baking bread would degrade it the sandos cable albert albarelli Cited is ambiguous and predates the incident in some readings.No corroborating documentation has surfaced despite extensive MKUltra Declassification since the 1970s church committee hearings.

Yeah, but the problem with that is like one of the One of the reasons why we know about MKUltra was evidence that they found that had been in storage.So when you say like Freedom of Information Act, they don't give you shit.

They just bait you with a little bit here and there to go, oh, OK, we know now.

Also, they'll just tell you we don't have any evidence.Go fuck yourself.I mean, look how hard it is to get the Epstein files.This is a guy that was all live in 2019.

Where there were plenty of records of everything happening.Exactly.

And the internet.

me.Do you know about the Lyme disease?Oh yeah.You know about this?Oh yeah.Like the plumber.

Island thing?Oh, yeah.Yeah.Seems very legit.That conspiracy.I'm not a huge conspiracy theorist.

This one to me is like a no -brainer.

Well, it's also people want to say that Lyme disease has existed forever.Absolutely.True.Not to the extent that it exists today.Also, not as contaminant.Right.

And spreading like crazy.Like crazy.Like it's just sweeping out west.

Not only that.Plum Island, they were absolutely doing gain -of -function research on ticks.And the idea was, the reason why they were doing it, This is this is all me what I've read.I don't have any direct information Yeah, but it's still fun.But what they said was what they were doing was engineering ticks with these diseases So what they could do is they could spray them from planes and that would overwhelm the medical system of any like Overwhelm a town that's right overwhelm their armies you you couldn't keep up and it would they wouldn't be able to fight That's right, and it could wipe out food sources.

It had like multiple implications.Yeah, exactly.

So now we have these fucking creeps from the World Economic Forum that are talking about the dangers of eating meat, right?And about how people eating meat is what's wrong with them.That's why it's accelerating climate change, all horseshit.But they're saying it, and they're saying that it's almost a moral obligation to create a tick Or to create more tics that would have this alpha gal in them.

The one that makes you allergic to meat.

Yes.They're saying that they want more of that?Yes.Bro.This guy was talking about, not only that, I have a buddy who has that, my friend Evan from Black Rifle Coffee is talking about it.Oh yeah, I know Evan, yeah.

One of my best friends, love him to death.Evan has it bad and it fucks him up.It's not as simple as he's allergic to red meat.Like it fucks up all of his blood work.

His body's a mess.And he picked it up hiking and hunting.Picked it up.He got a tick and he didn't know.

And he got bit.My friend Bert Kreischer, his wife's family, half of them have this fucking problem.No way.Are they from the East Coast?Yeah.East Coast.

It's the Texas Lone Star Tick.It's a Lone Star Tick.Not the Texas Lone Star Tick.But this one tick carries this thing and they think that that Might perhaps be genetically engineered as well.It's crazy because there was no alpha -gal problem No, 30 40 years ago.It just didn't exist Nelson.

It's like ubiquitous.It's everywhere.

It's spreading to it.Yeah.Yeah, it's crazy I I never used to think twice about getting a tick I get ticks all the time hiking around doing the stuff I do I never used to think twice about now.I'm terrified.Oh, yeah I'm terrified of it now.

It's not just red meat.The Lyme disease is fucking devastating Early, uh -huh.

It can fuck with you the rest of your life.

Uh -huh.Yeah I know multiple people that have it including Jim Miller guy who fights in the UFC.He had it really bad And it fucked up his career for quite a while, but he got his diet under Wraps and he figured out like what to eat what not to eat and now he's fine do you know about some of those other animal warfare things they used to do like the Spy tech they put in city cats You know about this no.

Oh, dude.There's some amazing ones spy tech and cats so during World War two Jamie would have to confirm what city this was in I believe it was the Russians used to put little hearing devices in street cats Because because the the Brits would go and meet in back alleys and have meetings, but there were feral cats everywhere So they'd have all these cats running around with these wires in their brains and stuff and these little little yeah acoustic kitties That's it the CIA Who's the kid?

He was a Central Intelligence Agency project launched by the Directorate of Science and Technology in the late1960s, in the 1960s, intended to use cats to spy on the Kremlin and Soviet embassies.

In an hour -long procedure, a veterinary surgeon implanted a microphone in the cat's ear canal and a small radio transmitter at the base of its skull and a thin wire into its fur.

Oh my god!

How crazy, imagine that, you're just like having a secret meeting in a back cove, you know, back alley and there's a cat there just Live -streaming your conversation to the CIA go back up a little bit here It says do the cat sense of hunger had to be addressed in another operation.

What interesting First acoustic kitty mission was an eave drop on two men in a park outside the soviet embassy in Washington DC The cat was released nearby but was hit and allegedly killed by a taxi almost immediately It was probably the thing was all fucked up.I probably couldn't get it.It's like what is in my head?They put a wire in my head schizophrenic cat However, this is disputed in 2013 by Robert Wallace a former director of the office of technical service Who said the project was abandoned due to the difficulty of training the cat to behave as required?And that the equipment was taken out of the cat the cat was re -sewn for a second time and lived for a long and happy life afterwards.Lies!

Yeah, come on.You fucking killed that cat.It got hit by a taxi, but it was fine and they took it out of its head.

But I mean more than one cat I'm sure.But this idea the equipment was taken out of the cat The fuck you did that you you spent money on taking the equipment out Did you really did you just kill the cat a hundred percent and assholes dude?

There's a few of these and the bats that would light fires.

You know about those ones hold up The military did not give up on its use of animals as spies.As of 2006, the Pentagon requested the creation of a cyborg, cyborg insects for use in espionage.

The request was made by fucking DARPA, of course, of the Pentagon.

Scientists at Cal Berkeley responded by creating a controllable cyborg beetle in October of 2009.

What there's a there's a cockroach under your carpet here listening to us somewhere right now They're not gonna hear anything other than the stuff.

We already talked about.Yeah, it's the wonderful thing about having such a retarded show Look at this is a fucking battery in the beetle come on Look at a microchip on its back.

It's amazing that the beetle can live through all this.It's pretty amazing.

That's wild Wow.And I guess as these things have gotten smaller and smaller, as chips and battery technology has increased.Of course.

Wow.Think of your cell phone in 09 compared to now.Right, right.

Fucking wild, man.

Yeah, there were a few of these.They used to light bats on fire and then they'd send them to roost.And then they'd burn down whole towns and things like that.That's going back even...Dude, there's spy pigeons where they put cameras.There's a handful of these that the CIA tried.

Well, how about what they did with dolphins?

Oh, like the...Well, you know the whole...Not beluga, what's...Yeah, what's the beluga?The Russian spy whale?I don't know that I was talking about dolphins.

They use to detonate things.

Oh tell me about it They use dolphins as like literal distributors of warheads Oh really get a dolphin to go somewhere, and then they blow them up.

No way like a kamikaze dolphin I don't know the exact details of it because I got sad when I was reading about Deep attachment to dolphins.

I fucking love dolphin.

I always say anybody who hates dolphins has to be a bad person I've had some experiences with them.

I had one where I was like really high on edibles in Hawaii, and the dolphins would jump out of the water near the boat and they'd look at you.They'd look at you when they were jumping out of the water, like, look, look at me.Like, look, we're doing this thing.

And they're literally just playing with you.

They're playing.100 % playing.Because they came to the boat and they were jumping in the wake of the boat.And the more you would cheer and, yay, look at that, the more they were doing that.And they were having fun.And I was like, these are incredible creatures.

Oh, they totally pick up on your energy.

So the secret dolphin program began in 1959 to detect underwater mines and enemy divers.But I think they did stop.Duff.

Whether you mean whether this is correct, or they just like the one of the history It says that they didn't do anything to harm humans or engage in combat They like told their handlers to do it the one that I've heard They were just signifying in dark water because they could see stuff better than our current technology back then so they would echolocate And say yo we got something over here come check it out.

That's what this well How's the dolphin communicate that back to the people and how's it know what the person's intended?That was pretty good.I think there was some speculation that they actually use them as weapons, though.

Well, have you seen, not to transition off dolphins, but Valdimir, the Russian spy Beluga?No, okay, this is a real thing like like 100 % this one's real So there was this beluga whale named Valdemir of Vladimir or something like that and he turned up in Norway and he was escaped from a Russian spy program and he had a Harness with spy gear on him.This is him right here.Look See the spy gear on him.It's like a whole thing and so the Russians had been training this whale as a spy to And had harnesses and spy equipment on him, and then he just peaced out and turned up in, I want to say, Norway.And then they followed him for a while, and then he mysteriously got shot.

Mysteriously.

Some things with the dolphin story, I don't know if this is accurate, but I did read this one time, that if we knew Russia was doing this,we would put some paperwork out that said, well, we've got dolphins that are, you know, blowing up mines.Just so you guys know.Now we got to figure that out.Goose chases.That's a good point.

That's a good point.It's like you never really know what's real.Right.

How cool do beluga whales look, though?Look at that thing.That looks like an alien.Nah, they're super, super cool.I mean, look at that.

That looks like, we have come to your planet to discuss your use of nuclear power.

And he would talk in that very calm tone.That looks like something that would be very calm.No, that was it.Yeah, this was a crazy.

Well, you know the John Lilly research with dolphins.Do you know about that?I'm not sure.Okay, John Lilly is the guy who invented the sensory deprivation tank.

Oh, yeah.He's have one of those.

Yeah.Yes.We have one over.Yeah.John Lilly was the man who was the inspiration for the movie altered states.Okay, so John Lilly who was this really interesting guy and was famously like there with psychedelics like he would he would take intramuscular doses of ketamine and jump in the sensory deprivation tank oh damn yeah trying to unlock brain thing my friend Todd actually did it with him oh wow Yeah, so John Lilly who was also a pioneer in interspecies communication So they were trying to figure out how to communicate with dolphins So they set up a house and this lady Lived with the dolphins in the house to get the dolphin and trying trying to coach the dolphin and the way like literally she lived in water So the water was like, you know four feet deep and she lived with his dolphin.

The problem was the dolphin was super horny Oh, yeah, so the only way that she could get this dolphin to cooperate was she had to jerk him off.

Yep.

So she was jerking off the dolphin and somehow or another they found out and they cut the funding for research.But she had to do it.That's what I said.You gotta do it.That's the job.It seems like she liked it though.

Look at her.She's hugging him.

She's like, yeah.

I mean, after a while, she probably did enjoy it a little bit.

I mean, what else are you going to do?You're stuck in a tank with a dolphin.The girl who talked to dolphins.

So is there a documentary on this?Is there a clip?Is it like blurry, where you see her hand moving?Water turning white.So I guess, but if she jerked the dolphin off, then the dolphin would try to talk to her.But the thing was, you can't really get them to, they can't make the noises that we want them to make.

They don't have the ability.Like it gets a...It but it can't like the vocal cords right there, right?

That's one of the things where AI may actually start to make a huge difference, right?Yeah, right because they are able to decipher a lot of like cetacean like dolphin and whale language now and with enough of a database They'll start to be able to say like this is this means this this means this how they actively deciphered It's so it's coming up to so base, you know AI works.You have to train it on something.Is this the lady?

She looks like the kind of lady it would do that She's got a real dolphin jerk look to her.

This is such a crazy story.Listen to these orca whales imitate human speech.No.It says it's responding.

Let me hear it.

Oh, there's your guy.There's my guy.Yeah.Let me hear it.

It's getting there.It's trying.Yeah.It's amazing.Whoa.I bet what it wants to say is, let me go, you fucking asshole.

Put me back in the ocean, you crazy bitch.

Quit jerking me off and put me back in the ocean.

Maybe if they jerked off the killer whales, they wouldn't have killed them.

Yeah, good point.

It's like just like SeaWorld alone.It's just it's so awful and it wasn't until those that documentary What was it called Blackfish?Yeah, that was like the first one where people when like hey, it was really eye -opening Yeah, we shouldn't support this at all.

I mean, I can't believe people still even go to fucking SeaWorld It's pretty crazy, you know, basically prison, you know about those two in France that are trapped there.No Oh, this is interesting.So there is basically a SeaWorld equivalent in France and the government shut it down I forget the, I'm sure we can figure it out, but it was shut down, but then the dolphins and the two orcas were not released, and the guys were like, these are mine, I'm not releasing them, and I can't afford to release them or move them.So they've just been sitting in these abandoned tanks for, I want to say a year now, maybe more, this is it here, the race to save these two.Jamie I don't know if you can see if there's an aerial shot of it, but yeah, so they're just sitting in this thing but but it's closed the guy can't afford to feed them because nobody's visiting and Then I believe the government just doesn't want to do anything about it because they're like we just wanted to shut you down We don't want to actually like do anything about it, so there's just these two Orcas sitting in these tanks and how they get food I mean he's feeding them, but he's like doing it out of his pocket, and it's like few and far between oh, man So yeah, it's it's a crazy there Yeah, the abandoned whales, and they're just sitting in these tanks.

We've had a do you know Phil Demers is he's a guy who?Helped shut down marine land in Canada.

Oh, okay.

Yeah awful awful place bad facility There's so many of these fucking places like that.We see what they're doing and just like oh my godif we could understand them Yeah, and we could I think someday in the future.We're gonna look back at that the way people today look back at slavery Oh totally we're gonna say these are intelligent creatures They just they just don't have the ability to manipulate their environment like yeah, we do yeah, but like just dolphins their cerebral cortex is 40 % larger than a human beings so Something's going on in there And you think it's okay to put them in a swimming pool?That's crazy.

Dude, it's the same thing like what I was saying about elephants.Their EQ, their emotional intelligence, we can't even comprehend it.The way those animals feel, like the highs that an elephant experiences and the lows it experiences are way bigger than the highs or lows that most humans, I think any human can experience.Like their EQ is way bigger than ours.The trauma that they feel from losing a loved one or from being abused or whatever it happens to be is like 10x what humans can even emotionally comprehend.

How do we know that?

Based on their brain scans and whatnot.I don't know the specifics of it, but because that part of their brain is so much larger than ours.And so you have these, they might not have the same like computer skills as we do mentally, but they have this emotional intelligence that's like so much deeper and broader than ours.At least that's my belief.

It is a weird thing with us where we only characterize intelligence as the ability to manipulate your environment.Yeah, like we want you to write a book right?I don't I don't trust you.You're real.You're really smart make a house.Why don't you?

Why don't you how come you don't have a rocket ship, right?Where's your phone?

All right.Yeah.Yeah.No, it's weird.

Yeah, it's a weird way to look at things Yeah, it's like I think there's a part of people that recognize that this this this direction that people like this classification of intelligence in that way is wrong.But I don't think we can really quantify it yet.And if AI really can deciphera dolphin language, orca language, whale language, if they really can and we realize that they're actually communicating.God, I would hope that would change our approach to how we deal with those things.I think it would.

Because there's, I think they are sea people.

I really do.Basically, yeah.

They're just, they don't need to manipulate their environment.First of all, they can travel 3D.Yeah.They go up, they go down, they go across, they can hold their breath for an hour.Yeah.They don't need to make a house.

No.Their food is everywhere.Also, they're at the top of the fucking food chain.That's right.They're orcas.

And they're nomadic.Yeah.They don't, they don't, We are not nomadic by trade, so we have to manipulate our environment to make it more comfortable.Orcas are not.We're so slow.Yeah.

They move so fast they can make a sunfish explode.

Straight up, yeah.Straight up.

We're so slow.Like, the fastest people, we just run into each other and knock each other unconscious.That's what we could do.Fun to watch, though.

Dude, but I want to go back to what you said about...I agree, by the way, about orcas and captivity and whales and things like that.There's this huge anti -Zoom movement that I just don't agree with though.I agree with you that in the future we'll go, why did we keep animals the way we did?And when you look at old zoos and concrete boxes and stuff, but there's so much good that animals in captivity have done.Saving species, keeping things alive, connecting kids to nature.

There's a lot of gray area.There's Tiger King and there's fucking San Diego Zoo.You know what I mean?There's a lot of nuance to it.

San Diego Zoo is an excellent example of a really great zoo.It's unbelievable.

It's incredible.

I've been to that place before.

Yeah.

But I also went to that wolf place with you.Yeah.And that made me sad.

Yeah, I know went there.I was bummed out man, but at least they're rescuing them.

You know like I know what they also cut their balls off Yeah, that bum me out hardcore.

Otherwise.They all fight.I mean, but that's the gray area that you had like What's the alternative you know it's like?Let them loose, but then none of but only a few of them were pure wolves you can't just let thema wolf dog.That's true too.

Because then you're muddying genes.It's such a complicated thing.

Well isn't that the whole reason why black wolves exist in the first place?I think black wolves exist because it's a trait that they got from domesticated dogs.

I read that and then I read it was false and then I read it again.I don't know what the truth behind that is.

Let's put it into perplexity.We should.They'll probably say it's a Rogan -esque claim.

As stated on today's podcast.How do you want to word that so you kind of get a good response back?

That's interesting.How do you word that?Would you say, is it true that black wolves inherited that trait?from domesticated dogs, because that is one thing that absolutely has happened, is that there's been interbreeding between, and not just on purpose.

No, no.

Yeah.

It happens.Yeah.I mean, you get coy wolves and yeah, it does.Yeah.Yeah.Is the genetic mutation of a black fur color brought about by domestication?

Yes.Sorry.

I'm throwing a lot at you, Jamie.

Is the black, the trait of black wolves, Did they inherit that from domesticated dogs?Edit my thing then.

Is that click good enough or not?

From domesticated dogs.Yeah.Yeah, see what it says.Let's see.

I love watching it work.

Where it's like spinning?

Yes.

This is well supported by genetic research.Black coat color in North American wolves comes from mutation in the K locus, especially, specifically, excuse me, a three base pair deletion in the CBD 103.I don't know what that little thing is.Yeah, I don't know.

Defense in gene.Beta defense.Is that what it is?I think so.

Produces a dominantly inherited melanistic phenotype.The mutation originated in dogs and moved into wolves through hybridization, not the other way around.Interesting.2009 study by Anderson et al. first identified the KB black allele in wolves is derived from dog -wolf interbreeding.Follower work analyzing 331 wolves and 20 dogs found that North American wolf How do you say that word?Haplotypes?

Oh, haplotype, yeah.Are monophyletic, meaning a single...I feel like you're my teacher.A single...Mm -hmm.Good job, Dale.

...introgression event from dogs, most likely seeded the allele through the continent, probably in the Yukon or Northwest Territories.went to where Colossal made the Dire Wolves.Ben texted me when you guys went.

That was an interesting experience.Was that cool to see?Yes.I haven't even seen him.I know it's a whole hush -hush.

I brought my youngest daughter and she was cuddling with the four -month -old wolf.Well, there you go.

You can cuddle with them when they're four months old, up until a certain point.

But it was like a puppy.And it was still huge, right?No, no, no, no.No?No, it was pretty small.

Yeah.It's like, uh...

She was so sweet.She was so sweet.She would cuddle with you and you pet her and she'd kiss you.That's cool.It was like a fucking dog.That is a Romulus.

There you go.Oh my God.She's so sweet.But the males, they had two males that had, you know, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were, they That's her name, that's right, Khaleesi's the girl.

So there's Romulus, look how cute they are when they're little babies.Then Remus.

Remus, Romulus, and then Khaleesi the girl.

That was pretty cool.

So Khaleesi was the one that we got to cuddle with.Man, they're cute.Oh my god, she was so fucking adorable.But you could only hang out with her for a little while, and then they got big.Yeah.and now they're big Yeah, he sends me pictures.

So they were like that when we went there like that size, but that size that's already else I don't know if I let my kids in with a wolf.That's well, they kept away from you.Yeah, and we were in a large contained area But we got to go out with them.Yeah, so And they just kind of hang out and look at you.They keep away from you for the most part, but she didn't.

She just came right up.

But she can't be with them yet.

With the males?Yeah, she was too little.Interesting.

It was too, like, you know, they didn't want her to get killed.It was just too sketchy.

She was tiny.Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And she was, you know, she was still a baby still.But they were older.I think they were a year or close to a year.But they could hang out with them for the first, like, five or six months, I think.Oh, wow.And then after a while, they just got, you know, There's also some stuff about them that they didn't even know dire wolves had, like the mane, which is very interesting.

They're getting a big arch mane.They have a mane.Oh, wow.Almost like a lion's mane.Oh, wow.Which they didn't know, and they didn't know they were going to be white either.

Now, is that a variant from their genetic mutation work, or is that something that's just expressing itself?

Very good question that you would have to talk to a geneticist about, because there's a lot of people that don't even agree they're actually dire wolves.A lot.Yeah, a lot.Yeah.They're essentially saying that what you've done is you've taken the traits of dire wolves and you've made them expressed in a gray wolf, this is a gray wolf.But that's what Beth says they've done.

Exactly.Do you know what I mean?They're not hiding that, they're like, we're trying to fill a niche, we're trying to make something.

Yes.Yeah.I think I don't want to mischaracterize but essentially what they're saying is but that's what a dire wolf was right like that They are a wolf that has all these traits right like the size is the same the look is the same You can get technical and say no you've taken a gray wolf and made it express, but yes, but they got those genes Specifically from dead dire wolves right right so it's like well.What is it our own?Classification of these things that we're disputing right because we can't just decideI call this a dire wolf and that's what it is.

The genes don't give a fuck what labels you put on them.No, not at all.And if you make a dinosaur, that's not a real T -Rex.It ate everyone in the city.It's a real T -Rex.It just took over a fucking city.

ate everyone in a VW bus.

It's a 30 foot tall lizard.It's a dinosaur.Like it doesn't matter how you shape it.Yeah.

Oh, the woolly mouse is really cool, too.

Yeah, they're really neat.Ben told me one day I could have a woolly mouse, so I'm holding him to that.Yeah.

It's really interesting seeing the dire wolves, though, and just imagining what was it like when those things are just roaming the earth?I know.Because it's like a 200 pound wolf that's all white with like thick fur and a mane like a lion.

Dude, speaking of roaming the earth, have you heard the theory about how Uh, sloth bears stopped.Sorry, not sloth bears.Uh, what were the big cave bears in North America?Short -faced.Short -faced bears stopped human immigration.

Yes.

Have you read about that?Yeah.That's really cool.

Totally makes sense.

It totally does.They just stood there waiting for people like salmon to cross the Bering land bridge.And they're like, well, it's that time of year again.

Also, like, who would do that knowing that those things are out there?That thing was so big.Yeah.It's like double the size of a polar bear.It's crazy.Yeah, it's crazy.

A twice large polar bear that can Look at that thing!

I don't care how smart we are, that is not something you want to face.Right.Even if you have a gun.

Like, good luck.If you have a 9mm handgun and you run across a grizzly bear, you're dead.

Yeah.

It's not gonna be enough firepower.No.So, what are you gonna hit that thing with?A spear?

Well, they have rocks, so, you know, that's good.Rocks and spears, yeah.Rocks!Oh, rocks!

I mean, when they first started coming across, did they even have fucking bows and arrows yet?

I don't know.Yeah.But, I mean, spears, for sure.But then there's the real question, is that the only way people got here?

Because when you see the white sands footprints that are 22 feet high...and you start going, okay, well, this predates the Ice Age.

That's before any humans were known anywhere in the New World.Yeah.

So it's like, well, what's going on there?Because this is actual human footprints that have been dated to 22 ,000 years ago, and that's just all we found.That's just because they left footprints.

That doesn't mean there wasn't something there 50 ,000 years before, 100 ,000 years before.Exactly.Exactly.

And then there's, in Mexico, this evidence that looks like predation on mammoth bones by humans.Oh, really?Yes.

Like spearheads and things?

Like carvings into mammoth bones.No way.It looks like they're broken open to get marrow.Oh, interesting.Very disputed, right?Yeah.

Some people to think it could have been like some rocks falling on the bones.Sure.Sure.Sure I'm not sure how this is happening, but it does think that Let me write this up for Joe We're gonna forget it a separate computer that we don't use for perplexity.

What is the question?I'm sorry Well, how would humans have contested short -faced bears on the Bering Strait?

Let me write this up for Joe.Fuck off, man.You're like a baby.

Grounded to the actual evidence.The wall of monster bears kept humans out of North America doesn't hold up any longer, apparently.

When I was finding it, people said it was a myth that a scientist commented on a paper that doesn't necessarily...He could have thought that, but...They didn't have evidence for it.

Well.Here's the thing like the idea of a bear line No, because the problem is bears they would have to eat so much to sustain that kind of mass Yeah, but there couldn't really have been a lot of them No, but it sure makes sense that there were predating upon people when they came across hold up hold up go back back up here This this guy's saying something kooky.He's saying that a hyper carnivore built for pacing long distance He argued that it was primarily a scatterbrainusing its size, sense of smell, and long -legged gait.to kleptoparasitize kills from lions, dire wolves, and scimitar cats rather than the rundown prey itself.That doesn't even make sense.

Long -legged gait would make it faster.

I heard about this.So yeah, the theory is that short -faced bear would come in and rob a kill, like basically what a hyena does to lions.

Or what wolves do to mountain lions.

Yes, but I think, to me, it doesn't add up.

Well, you know grizzly bears chase down moose and kill them.There's plenty of video.I watched a video yesterday of it.

They've also shown now that hyenas are incredibly efficient predators.And until like 10 years ago, we thought hyenas were only scavengers or 50.I mean, it's longer than that, but you know what I mean?And now they show they have like a 30 % success rate, which is very high.

Yeah.There's no reason why they wouldn't be if they're carnivores.Like why would they be completely relying on other animals to do the work for them when they have that kind of biting power?They're just opportunistic like all carnivores and they move as packs.Yeah, they work as pack animals So they kind of move like dogs if you're gonna get food get food Do you know what I mean?

If you can kill it kill it if you can fight something off for it fight something off for it Like it doesn't really matter.

That's how carnivores are.What is this team?We're saying says this is how they hunted brown bears that probably done it the same way Oh get him in the dens and then yeah burn it burn the entrance with fire probably kill the babies right, but That's if you had access to if I had an addle addle and a spear at best and maybe some fire that they could maybe move You know, you know how close you have to be to hit something with an addle addle.

Yeah, okay There's there's some videos that are really interesting where they're showing people Realistic scenarios where bears charging you and they pull the show.Yeah showing bear spray and guns like showing them like a mat Like imagine you have a 10 millimeter semi -automatic pistoland you have to rack it, so you have to rack a slide.So the bear's coming, you have to draw the gun, rack it.

Take the safety off.

And then point it towards the animal and squeeze it.You're dead.

You're done.You're already dead.It's like that.

It has to be like 100 yards away from you as it starts running for you to even get a shot off.

I think the idea is the bear gives you some sign.

Look at that bullshit -ass thing.

I've tried one.It is impossible to throw accurately.

Well, that's true, but you're not practiced in it.No, of course not.I mean, I've seen people that are super accurate with Spears.Isn't your buddy Adam Greentree, doesn't he do the atlatl?

I think I've seen him probably knows how to do it.

Yeah, but I mean pretty well.

It's not a good weapon No, I mean, it's definitely better than no weapon.I mean, what's the advantage over throwing a spear?

It just goes further mechanical leverage.Yeah, so it's I have a thing like that for my dog.It's like a Thing the ball that has a ball in the end of it and you can it's so easy to not blow your shoulder out you can throw it pretty fucking far right and how I do it, I was like, wow, of course, this is way better.

You have this extra leverage with this thing.

And then also you can kind of whip it with your wrist and you get all this action with the ball.

You would do the same thing with a spear, with a battle ladle.It makes sense.It makes sense.Seems hard to be accurate, though.

Super hard.Well, it's hard to be accurate with a traditional bow.Right.You know, it's so hard.Like, you know, I shoot a compound bow.And a compound bow is..

.There's so much technology involved.Oh, yeah.First of all, I have a laser rangefinder and I'll range something.It says 52 yards.Then I go to my sight tape that's on my sight on my bow and I dial it to 52 yards because I use archery software.

measures the weight of my arrow So I have this 500 grain arrow, and then it has the speed per so it's 390 feet per second from a 500 grain arrow Yeah, and then I put it into this computer, and it spits out a sight tape so that I can move my pins Specifically so I could put it in In a quarter, at 52 yards.If I was accurate enough, I'm not.No one really is.

Except like really excellent world -class archers.

With a traditional bow, you're just guessing.So you're just guessing the arc of the arrow.And then you have to think, okay, I'm buying arrows.Right there made by a guy who's measuring them, right?They're all down to like they're within two grains of each other and that have like inserts My front of center is very high perfect aerodynamics, and they're made out of carbon fiber These fucking arrows they're making them by hand and then they're making the arrowheads by hand Yeah, so they could be off.Yep each one of them like so you're just Guessing where that fucking arrow is gonna go and you have to shoot every day to get a real sense Oh, yeah of like what the drop is at a certain distance And then you have to kind of judge how far is he is he 20 yards 30 yards 50 yards?

So even with modern traditional bows, and that sounds like a...

Yeah, I know what you mean.Recurves and long bows.Right, right.

I mean, that sounds like an oxymoron, but they are still traditional in the sense of you're not using cams, right?You don't have like a cam that rolls over and it's a mechanical advantage, fiberglass limbs and all this jazz.You're using like wood still, right?Even with those things, you're still buying arrows, and the arrows weigh the same amount.

Yeah, they're perfect.

So if you did that over and over again in your yard, you did it every day for three hours a day, you would get a sense of how far, and then if you did it a bunch, you'd get an idea of judging distances, and there's little tricks.There's certain archery tournaments where you're not allowed to use a rangefinder.Oh really yeah, and so the idea is you have to Develop the skill of being and I think these tournaments probably started back when rangefinders didn't exist Yeah, and then when rangefinders did exist.They're like nah.

That's cheating that out, right?

And then the targets are at various yes, and so guys develop a very good way of measuring distance.Sure.And what essentially they do is they can pretty accurately judge five yards and then they double that and then they triple that and then they try to figure it and they get within like 10 or 15 yards.Sure.But you know that's a lot even with a compound bow.You know that drop of 10 or 15 yards is pretty significant.

Even something that's going 300 feet a second.But when you're doing with a fucking wooden arrow that you made yourself with a stone tip like like one of these bad boys.I have one here somewhere.Somewhere on this desk yeah here it is so cool like that somebody made that so if you make that one And then somebody else makes one right next to it.

It might be 15 grains different It might be 50 grains different and the aerodynamics are different like the flint knapping is completely different.

Yeah, yeah, this thing's not That's not good Playing like a motherfucker.

Yeah shot it out of a really good bow and not to mention the stress of if I don't kill this thing, I'm either going to die or I'm not going to eat or all the other things.

And you have a 15 -foot bear.Right.

Probably bigger.

What is the height of a short -faced bear or the length?What is a big short -faced bear?

Have you seen those caves they have in Missouri?They're still claw marks from short -faced bears and things.Really?Oh, yeah.You can go visit, like, middens of them in Missouri, where they used to live.

Where they carved out a cave, like a den?

Yeah, where they lived in dens, and you could see their claw marks in the mud and everything else.It's amazing.11 to 12 feet.

I think they probably have to be bigger than that because Kodiak bears get that big.Kodiak bears can get 12 feet.Do they?They get that big?Yeah.Kodiak?

Yeah.I mean, maybe they're measuring them squirrelly because, you know, like a lot of times they measure stuff to try to make it seem bigger.So what is the largest Kodiak bear ever killed?Let's look that up.Largest Kodiak bear.Largest Kodiak bear ever killed ever recorded.

There you go recorded the same thing.

Okay.They have it by weight It's 1656 pounds which is by the way, holy Shit, it's insane.

Yeah nearly a one -ton bear.

Yeah, that's so crazy The hind foot measured 18 inches.Oh god.How tall was it?How long was it?There's 500 pounds more than that Yeah, what's over a ton in a zoo yeah, oh my god, but he might have been fat he was fat maybe a short fat, so What is the, so what is the longest, the largest length?

I'm pretty sure he's sitting, I think I've seen this bear and he's sitting in the Anchorage airport when you land there.Oh, there's a big, is that that bear?I think that's the largest bear ever killed.I've seen that.

Yeah.I've seen that in Anchorage.That's, that thing's nuts.

At the airport there?Yeah.Yeah.It's in like a glass case or something.Yeah.I'm pretty sure that's the biggest bear ever, ever shot.

Look at that one.Ever recorded 2 ,130 pounds.No length measurements anywhere.

That is so big.

That's so crazy.The short -faced bear, they don't even really know how much it weighed.They're just basing it on the bones.They don't have a dead one.So that photo up there, that's Fred Bear with his 1962 world record Alaskan bear.Go back to that photo that you just were at before.

Yeah, look at that.That's his stuffed bear.

He shot that with an old bullshit bow.Look at his bow.The recurve bow, yeah.That bow sucks.Wooden arrows.That's so crazy.

He was the first modern bow hunter.

Oh, really?Yeah.

I mean, he's the guy who popularized bow hunting.Fred Bear's a legend.Oh, interesting.In the bow hunting world.And, I mean, you gotta think.How much how good does life have to be where you go?

Let's try to do something that people you should do before guns Yeah, just just because yeah, it wasn't really a thing that people practiced right for fun like The food had to be so readily available.Yeah, we had to say let's make it harder.Yeah go backwards Yeah, let's have so much food.Yeah, let's make it more difficult.Yeah, and then there's guys today that They don't like compound bows because they're too hot too easy.Yeah, they're using recurve.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah, it's crazy.

Yeah friend Aaron Snyder Who's a like a world -famous bow hunter went back to using a recurve bow really?

It was killing too many things with a compound bow felt like it was too easy But that's what happens right is these guys master their their craft and when they spend all that time on it And then they're like, how do I make the challenge harder on myself?

So they're competing with other world -class bow hunters like they're all like who's the man?Yeah.Yeah.Yeah Yeah, there's a little bit of that, but that's also like that's how they get good in the first place Like there's a weird thing about people in competition.You can say competition is bad like okay Are you saying that on your phone because how do you think you got a phone?Yeah, you got a phone because somebody just competing other people who developed a phone like it's just a different kind of competition I think competition is essential to human culture.

It's certainly essential to progress.

Yeah, and and this is why

socialism is never gonna work Yeah, get a reward people.Yeah, if they're not rewarded, they're not gonna work hard enough to do anything really spectacular.Why bother?So you're never gonna get a laptop.It would have never happened.Yeah, you've never had high -speed internet.

Yeah, somebody has to Profit wildly.Yes for them to be enthusiastic about spending 17 hours a day making something like but that's the joy of competition paying off Yeah, right is like I know not so much with bow hunting but if you're competitive as a person to the point that you succeed the most at developing a phone or a cup or whatever it happens to be you win and you get paid the most we just have to have Regulations to make sure that those people don't run amok and then take over entire countries and become a monopoly.

Yeah Yeah, what was going on with Microsoft in the 1990s?Remember all those?Remember that?

No, what was how are they taking over?

Bill Gates was a maniac like But before people think of Bill Gates now.Well now I think Cove it kind of ruined his People's impressions of him can now they think of him as a vaccine pusher.Mm -hmm, but also as a Philanthrocapitalist where he's doing philanthropy that makes millions and millions of dollars for him.

Didn't he also put out that anti protein film?Wasn't that him?Do you know what I'm talking about?I think Bill Gates' wife - Is it an anti -protein film?Bill Gates, correct me if I'm wrong, but Bill Gates' wife is vegan, I believe, and he funded, like, some Netflix documentary all on how, like, bodybuilders get huge without protein.Are you thinking about James Cameron?

Am I thinking about James Cameron?I know James Cameron's wife is vegan.I might be mixing them up, you might be.

You're talking about Game Changers, the vegan documentary?

Yes, yeah, with the huge, jacked guy being like, I never touch protein.

It turns out The problem, I think, if you're looking at that from an ethical perspective and you're saying factory farming is bad, I'm on your page.I'm with you.

But that had an agenda.

But yeah, it was a clear agenda, also just not accurate.

Anyway, I pirated your thing on Bill Gates though, sorry.

So the point was, during the 1990s...there was all these trials where they had these monopolistic practices.Okay.And they were buying up competition or destroying competition.

Just anybody that developed any computer.

Yeah, anybody developed browsers that competed with Microsoft stuff.Windows.Yeah.Here is landmark 1990s trials referred to United States versus Microsoft Corporation, massive antitrust lawsuit filed by US Department of Justice in 20 states.Key elements included browser war integration, the antitrust ruling and the appellate settlement.And so everybody in the 90s thought of him as this guy who is this like ruthless capitalist that was trying to destroy all the competition.

Okay.So he kind of reinvented himself.Gotcha.And what the way he reinvented himself is, first of all, he donated an enormous amount of money to the media.

So to NBC, CBS, CNN, all these different companies.

They gave him hundreds of millions of dollars.Just to fluff them, basically.

Just to kind of say, guys, I'm your friend.

I'm your buddy over here.

And then he developed the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation.And they were really concerned with global health.

Oh, my God.Dude, do you know what they did fucking in the Kabora Basa Delta with their mosquito nets?Why would you?But do you know what I'm talking about at all?No, what'd they do?Dude, I'm gonna go on a fucking tirade here.

Please do.Okay, so the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation decided that there was too much malaria in Africa, right, which you and I could probably agree with.Malaria is bad.So what did they do?They gave all of these people living in tribal villages.I've totally pirated your thing, I'm sorry, but I'm gonna go on a fucking rant here.

They gave all these people living in the Kabora Basa Delta, which is the breadbasket of the zambese valley meaning like where more fish are born it's a it's a nursery for fish not just there but this is a good exampleexample.They gave millions of mosquito nets out to all these people to avoid malaria.Guess what the people who are starving to death did with their mosquito nets?They fished with them.Mosquito net has a hole that is so small that a mosquito can't get through.

So guess what?These mosquito nets now indiscriminately catch tiny baby fish in areas like Cabora Bassa where the fish go to breed and reproduce and populate.So now all of a sudden you have thousands and thousands of people that have been handed nets that have been living one way for hundreds of thousands of years.They don't give a shit about malaria.They have their own way of dealing with malaria.They sit in smoky huts at night.

They sleep with a campfire, everything else.Yes, they still get malaria, some of them, but they deal with it their own way.Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation come in, hand out millions of mosquito nets.absolutely collapse the entire population of fish that feed millions of people because these people just take the nets and fish all the baby fish out so that those fish don't grow up to make substantial protein sources.So now these wonderful philanthropists that have given out millions of nets have destroyed an ecosystem, crashed a fish population, and created widespread hunger for people that otherwise had plenty of resources.All because they were trying to help with their mosquito nets.

It's just like it's a fucking disaster dude they've taken such a rich and important part of Africa one of the most abundant freshwater fisheries in the world and Destroyed it because they're helping by handing out mosquito nets Yeah, I know sorry I told you I go on a rant, but it's like it's so bad What's happened over there?And they're still giving out mosquito nets by the way And you literally watch these guys line up take a mosquito net and it never goes in their house It goes straight to catching fish that are this big for them to eat Sorry.

I mean, it's crazy.It's so bad for them too.It's like, can't you just double up the net thing and just get them other things?too?Like, say, hey, guys.

That's what happened in 2018.They got the new nets.Oh.Is that what it says?That's what it is. I'm looking at the thing.Yeah.

Trying to find out other information about it.

It just totally ruined - They might have already crashed the ecosystem.It completely crashed it, and it created widespread hunger in a place that had no hunger.So now you have people with malaria and hunger.Ugh.And it's like done from a place of good intent or maybe it isn't and I think that's where you were going But I don't think it is.

Yeah, I think it's a it's a ruse And I think there what a lot of it is is this thing like we are doing philanthropy Yeah, but then you you go.Oh, but you're profiting you're making hundreds of millions of dollars from this philanthropy, right?Yeah, you're buying goodwill.You're also on television promoting vaccines.Like why are you you're a guy who didn't even graduate college?Yeah I mean, I don't even know if you made it out of high school like he's a weird guy.

He's obviously very smart Yeah, of course, but why you're not a health expert why and you look like shit like why are you promoting health?Yeah, this is Craig could global health.Yeah, like just a fucking weird guy, man Yeah, the weirdest thing if you ever seen that, you know, he was obviously friends with Jeffrey Epstein or communicated with him and had some sort of a relationship.

Gates did?Yes.Oh, I didn't know that.Oh, yeah.It's popular.Gotcha.

Well known.

I feel like everybody is connected to Epstein now.Like, I've lost track.A lot of people are.

But the craziest conversation was there was a woman who was asking him, did he regret his relationship with Jeffrey Epstein?And he's just trying to say that the only reason why he talked to Jeffrey Epstein, because Jeffrey Epstein was going to, He was going to donate money to his philanthropy and all the different things that he's involved in.But it didn't work out.I do regret it.And she said, did you?I forget what her question was.

But Gates says, well, he's dead now.So there's that.There's something about it is you got to be careful like he's it's like a weird like Veiled threat.It's very odd the way he answers the question.Yeah Essentially saying that I'm reading it like like you got whacked.

Yeah, like that's what I'm reading interesting weird I could find that that I was sure well you find that I was talking to some buddies about this you know just like standard bro chat if if Epstein happened today and Right, and you had no knowledge of the weird stuff going on on the island.Like, you would be invited.You know what I mean?They'd be like, hey, Joe.Dude, they did invite me.

Oh, really?Oh, yeah.In 2017.

To the island?

I'm like, not to specifically, but to meet Epstein.

But that's what I'm saying.And I was like, what?If that happened today, some guy came to me.Oh, sorry.Yeah, yeah, yeah.Let's do it.

reported at that time that you had a number of meetings with Jeffrey Epstein, who, when you met him 10 years ago, he was convicted of soliciting prostitution from minors.What did you know about him when you were meeting with him, as you have said yourself, in the hopes of raising money?

You know, I had dinners with him.regret doing that.He had relationships with people he said would give to global health, which is an interest I have.Not nearly enough philanthropy goes in that direction.Those meetings were a mistake.They didn't result in what he purported, and I cut them off.

That goes back a long time ago now, so there's nothing new on that.

It was reported that you continued to meet with him over several years and that, in other words, a number of meetings.What did you do when you found out about his background?

Well, you know, I said I regretted having those dinners.And there's nothing, absolutely nothing new on that.

Is there a lesson for you, for anyone else looking, looking at this?

Well, he's dead.So, you know, in general, you always have to be careful.And, you know, the, you know, I'm, I'm, Very proud of what we've done in philanthropy.Very proud of the work of the foundation.

Listen, first of all, it's a record scratch.You have billions of dollars, right?And this guy didn't give you money for years, right?And you didn't get money for years.You kept meeting.What about your money?

Like, what is it?What is he going to give you?How much does he get?

How much does he have?Especially compared to Bill Gates.

But he also probably doesn't have a fraction of what you have, right?So it's like if like Elon started hit me up to donate money to something I'd be like, hey bitch, why don't you?

Dude, do you know how much money you have?You have so much money.

Why would you, why would you ask?

I'm the wrong guy.

If he kept meeting with me for years, for years, to try to get me to donate.Like it's kind of similar, right?

This is what we're talking about.

He's a billionaire, like hundreds of billions of dollars.

None of it makes any sense.

The guy was providing a party for rich people.That's what he was doing.He was providing a way where these rich people can fucking let their hair down and have a good old time and do coke or whatever they did.

And that's all it was really, right?It was just a cum, but the party had no rules and that's what makes it a problem.I'm just guessing.

I'm just guessing.But I had a guy who tried to get me to meet him in 2017.In LA or where?Oh, I was in LA when he reached out to me.Epstein appeared to have drafted himself claiming gates had oh yeah yeah yeah he wrote it to himself right this is an email that Epstein appears to have drafted to himself claiming that gates had contracted an STI from encounteringRussian girls and hid antibiotics from Melinda.

Gates said the emails were never sent and are false.His spokesman called them absolutely absurd.So absurd that someone could get an STD from a Russian girl.

Gates has separately admitted to affairs with two Russian women.And with a Microsoft employee, but says none of them were connected to Epstein or his victims.Some people said those emails were like a journal he was keeping.Why would you keep email himself?He wrote on an iPad all the time, apparently.That's why the typos were so bad.

And he just liked email, you know, that's you know, well, I mean imagine that's your journal, but why would you do that?

Why would you make up a story?About a guy having STDs.I think more likely because though there was a rumor and this is a unsubstantiated rumor.I want to be real clear that that Epstein was trying to blackmail Gates with some story about a bridge player that he was having an affair with.

Oh, interesting.

Russian bridge player.I also think they've intentionally flooded the internet with so much misinformation perhaps but my point was if he could have drafted that email, which was never sent, and then sent the draft to Bill Gates, or showed it to him, and say, what do you think about this?

Because I could just...If you don't, yeah.How about you shut the fuck up?

How about you give me some money?How about you...Because there was a bunch of people that gave him a lot of money.That gave Epstein a lot of money?Oh, yeah.In fact, the guy, the Victoria's Secret guy, gave him a house.

He gave him a house in Manhattan.

100 % of his finances, so it wasn't just he gave it to him.Oh 100 % taken it or you know right goes like I didn't know what he was doing Wait, so did a steam on that house, right?

Did he fund the Victoria's Secret guy to start Victoria's Secret?

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, that's how he got involved after that guy's Real deepSo Columbus, this guy got, uh, he was going to go to talk to the IRS about specifically what, I don't know, 1984, but he was like the tax guy for that company.He was murdered in a mob hit style.

This is why I like this podcast.I'm just like an animal nerd.I like talking about snakes and I'm like, find out about Victoria's Secret, Epstein and shit.

Well, I mean, it's what the human animal does.Yeah.The human animal when it's in these very controlled spaces where just so let's look at it this way.So imagine you're a guy who's especially if you're a nerd and you know, you were never really good with women when you're in high school and college, and then all of a sudden you have literally $100 billion, and you can just get prostitutes anytime you want.get the really high -end ones, they know how to shut the fuck up.And if you have this friend of yours who's in the Masaad, and that guy can get the best hookers, and he's got a fucking island, you go to the island, it's the best.

We fly, we talk about philanthropy, we fuck.

Yeah, it makes sense.I mean, that's what I was saying before.It's like, you're just like, it's just a party for a bunch of dorks who can come here with a lot of money.

But there's also some weird science connection with him.And that's where it gets really odd, is that he got that ranch in New Mexico so he could be close to the guys that were working at Los Alamos.who were famously not making much money.So he's around these guys, and he's talking about going into business with them and giving them this chance to make an insane amount of money.And this is what he did with Eric Weinstein.With Eric Weinstein, he contacted him, and they had a meeting, and he was trying to get Eric Weinstein to do something with him.

And if Eric did it, he had the potential to make an enormous amount of money.And Eric is very wise, and he just didn't buy him from the start.He's like, this guy's a construct.He's like, everything about him, he's like, he doesn't know anything about finance, he was talking to him, he's like, this guy's a construct, this is not a real finance guy.He's like, there's something going on here.

He's a wheeler and dealer.So wait, what was the science they were working on?

A bunch of different physicists were connected to him.Einstein Epstein reportedly hoped to develop super race of humans with his D Wow Wow, what is that from what?

That's a different one of the article.

Oh my god the New York Times that is crazy but he had a bunch of relationships with some very impressive scientists and physicists and I also oddly connected to the whole UAP world.The whole Los Alamos thing's weird because the The thing is that he, by buying that ranch in New Mexico, put him close to Los Alamos, which was in New Mexico.And then he had access to all these scientists that were famously underpaid.So these guys were not making much money, and he was this incredibly wealthy guy through no way that anybody could ever rationally explain.It was all weird.Who knows what he was trying to get them to do.

You know under the veil.

We're just speculating, but maybe maybe also if you have a bunch of really hot Russian chicks that are hanging out with you That'll do it.You don't need to be that charming.

That's so true.It's so true.

You're a billionaire with a bunch of hot Russian chicks Yeah, and there's a bunch of people that are willing to hang out with billionaires just cuz I've seen it where people just get enamored by the fact that someone's insanely wealthy and they want to go to the party at their house like whoo, but all those people do is work like crazy Do you I mean they're not fun.

I mean know that many.He was, that's true, that guy partied hard.Good point, good point.

Yeah, to be a billionaire.I mean, in most cases, what you have to do is be insanely driven.Yeah.And you have to be that guy that works 18, 20 hours a day.Right.You know.

And give up all the other things.Yeah, you have to give up all your time.

Exactly.And that becomes your whole life.Yeah.But I think that's also why they wanted a guy like that that could provide them.This is what Eric Weinstein described it.He said he provided them with experiences, I believe.

Yeah.

That was his.And I think he's right.I think that makes sense.

That's why I mean my one and only billionaire friend is that Anand Ambani, that Indian guy I was mentioning.I think it's so cool he's built this gigantic wildlife rescue.That is pretty dope.

That's a great thing to do with money.

He's just like, he's a nerd like me.And if he hears this, he's gonna be like, thanks a lot.But like, he's just an animal nerd.Do you know what I mean?He's gonna be like, he just like, he just loves animals and conservation.And he's like, I have generational wealth that might, you know, it came from his family.

His family's like fifth or sixth generation of having huge industry.And he's like, Okay, so with my excess money, I'm going to rescue animals instead of do other.That's very cool.I mean, for me, it's amazing.

Yeah, I mean, there's not look, there's nothing wrong with space race stuff, too.It's all fascinating.But it's just, it's, and I get it from a perspective of people who think there's not enough money in the world.And then why do these people have so much money, and they should give all their money away and like, Okay, but you could do that all the way down to like a hundred thousand dollars a year if you really wanted to do it Especially when you compare yourself to everyone else in the world, that's right.That's right.

You know, we're in the just living in this country alone We're in the 1 % right most people.I think 1 % of the world.

We will look this up It's like 50 60 thousand dollars if you make more than that, you're a 1 % of Earth, right?

And that's the majority of people in the United States.

Yeah, it's crazy So like yeah, you're barely getting by in America and you're in the 1 % of the world exactly.Yeah, which is wild.It's wild It really is.Yeah.We're the weirdest animal.You should study us.

I should.

Well, I learned a lot today, I'll tell you what.

Yeah, but we're not fun like you you study us, and you go.Oh god.What are they fucking doing?Where's you study animals you like oh?Fucking cool.They're way cooler.

They're way more interesting more teeth more claws more slithering well.It's also just the fact that there's so much variety and that they are real, and that they are, and some of them are so strange.How about that new monkey that they just found in the Congo?

With the lipstick?Crazy looking monkey.

Or his orange mouth.Yeah, it looks like he just ate one of them freeze pops.

Yeah, exactly.Like your kid after, yeah, a hundred, dude, it's so cool.And new primate species coming out still.I know.I love that.I think it's so great.

Do you believe in the Bondo ape?Do you think that thing is..

.Yes, and no like there's probably likely a group of chimpanzees Do you know I mean that that just are more aggressive that are a social construct and are larger and are larger But it doesn't mean that it's like this you know because I have the whole thing about them being lion killing apes and all this other stuff There's probably a family troop a group, and you know they're in war now have you read about this yeah?So I think that's the Bondo ape is real in the sense of there is an Probably an isolated larger group of chimps that just act like chimps the thing about this chimp those they said that their skulls are different Yeah, the cranial ridge.Yeah.Yeah, yeah makes sense Things with stronger jaw muscles have a cranial ridge.You know, you see it in hyenas, you see it in things like that.

Gorillas.Yeah, gorillas.Yeah, exactly.It's just more surface area for the muscle to attach to, basically.

It's just like, that would be so fascinating to find those things.And that's what, you know, that Karl Arman guy spent his whole life.

Hunting, reading rumors.

But at least he got some photos, unlike that poor fucker that was looking for the sloth.

Yeah, still trying, yeah.

Like, he got some camera trap photos of them.

No, and they were bipedal in the photos, right?Didn't you have them?Yeah, sometimes.Which chimps are, you know, they'll walk on dirt.legs and stuff.

Yeah, it's pretty cool.It is pretty cool.And then there's a photo of the one that they killed that was at the airport.Do you ever see that one?I don't think so.

Oh, it's crazy.At the airport?

Yeah, there's a small airport, and they killed this one enormous chimpanzee.So there's these two guys that are standing with it.It's hard to tell how big the guys are, but if they're normal -sized human beings, that's the biggest fucking chimpanzee I've ever seen in my life.Yeah, that's huge.Look at that thing.They're amazing.

Look at that.I mean the guy is you could tell by perspective that the guy's he's got his hand on it So he's right behind it.Yeah.Yeah, it's not a forced perspective His arm is not extended.No, so it's not fake.Yeah, and that chimpanzee looks way bigger than him way bigger.

Yeah, it's amazing So they think that is one of them.Yeah.

Yeah, like I said, I think it's real in the sense Oh, yeah this this famous photo see but that one just to me looks like a chimpanzee That just looks like a big chimp.

Yeah.Where the one that's sitting down, that looks way bigger than those guys.The size of its head is fucking enormous.

Do you know that there's one river where, I'm trying to remember exactly how this works, but basically there's one area where the rivers collide, where the chimps and the gorillas go into conflict with each other over this one river spot.Do you know what I'm talking about?Have you ever heard about this?Yeah, it's really interesting.So somewhere in the Congo, there's this particular river, and I think it's called the Cross River.car member now and it's an area that the chimps will come on one side and the gorillas will come down on the other and They will have they'll like throw stuff at each other across the river And like it's like a whole thing that it's been documented and these guys will there's sort of these like two clans of great apes that come and Communicate across the river and throw rocks and like show off to each other and then they kind of go back into the jungle But it's been seen in this one particular River several times Wow.

Yeah.It's like the real Planet of the Apes.

What are the chimp wars?Are they fighting over food?territory?

Unless I'm mistaken, it's relatively unknown, but it's sort of a social construct.So if you think of humans, for example, once our population gets too large and we have too many men and not enough women, we fight, right?We've seen that throughout history, Roman times, Mongolian times, you name it.So there is one troop of chimps.That all live together in relative harmony and then two leaders basically sprung up and there was a lack of enough females And so all of a sudden this this clan Divided into two clans and now they're at constant war with each other like they live in the same relative territory But they'll come in with come into contact with each other and go to war Over who's going to be the leader of the alpha troop the mega troop and it's been going for maybe a year or two years now Fuck yeah But how human is that?

So human.

Like to be like, okay, we're all part of this group.Like you and I don't like each other now.Like this is my side.That's your side.We're going to fuck each other up.

Study highlights friends with benefits relationship between gorillas and chimps what they're fucking each other.

No, it's younger ones hanging out It says it's I probably in the same area.They're meeting.Yeah, I think this is that river Friends with benefits Yeah, I was looking for wording that got to what you're getting at Say that with like you're like, why do you why do you go to dinner with Bob?

Well, we're friends with benefits.Oh, you're fucking Bob Yeah, when did you start fucking Bob man?No, no, we just like fix both of us yeah the chimpanzees though they caught them beating their chest which is only something gorillas yeah they're they're imitating mimicking each other yeah yeah I'm sure you've seen that one documentary I think it's called relentless enemies where there's a particular pride of lions that grew enormous because they're only eating water buffalos they got trapped on an island yeah the river change paths yeah yeah I I know

what you're talking about.I don't know the documentary, but yeah, they're eating cape buffalo exclusively, and the lions are just getting bigger and beefier, and they're all fat and like, yeah, it's pretty cool.

Well, they have to get bigger.The females are doing all the killing, and so they're as big as male lions in other places, and they're jacked.

And they don't have a choice, because otherwise they're going to die while trying to hunt the cape buffalo.

Right, but so we're watching natural selection in real life.Because they just keep getting bigger and stronger.Yeah, and you know like these fucking Buffalo are enormous man They're jumping on these things and hanging on them and trying to drag them down to the ground the black death That's what they call the Cape Buffalo.

Yeah, those motherfuckers are so scary so mean so scary Yeah, and they'll charge so unprovoked like they'll just turn and come anytime, but it's a it's crazy How you have that?Basically, insular dwarfism and insular gigantism throughout animals, no matter, like, animals stuck on an island, they're either gonna get big or they're gonna get small.Well, lizards usually get big on an island, right?Or tortoises, right?Like the Galapagos or the Seychelles, yeah.

Why?Why do they get bigger?No predators, unlimited resources.Yeah.

So all of a sudden, you know, you're a little tortoise that's this big and every time you get to this big, something spots you from the air and eats you or whatever it happens to be.But now you're stuck on an island with all the grass and fruit you could ever eat and nobody wants to eat you.So you just get bigger and bigger to outcompete each other.

Look at that face.

Yeah, look at those guys.

Just imagine, that's the only thing you can eat is something three times bigger than you, and it can fucking kill you.

That kills a lot of lions, by the way.Oh, yeah.Yeah.

Well, it'd kick you in the face when you're trying to take them out, and then that's it.Your jaw's broken, and you never eat again, and you starve to death slowly.

I love the little cub there covered in blood.Look at that.It's a really cool documentary.

Yeah.It seems so weird when you're looking at the size of the females.They just look so small.exaggerated to the point where they look fake.They look like Hulk lions.It's awesome.

It's very cool.Very, very cool.Nature is such a wild thing, man. I mean, it's such an amazing, fascinating, endless resource of just cool shit to see.

And our understanding of it changes all the time.Every animal theory we've ever had evolves and changes as we learn more.Which is what makes it so fun, because it's so dynamic.It's not a static thing.

Well, it's just crazy that we keep finding new things, like the new primate.Find that little new monkey that they found.

With the orange lips.He's really cool.He's in the Congo.

Well, the Congo's another place.It's like, what?

Yeah.

I'm sure you've seen that BBC documentary on the Congo from the early 2000s.But look at him.What a weird looking guy.

So cool.So strange there's a few lost primates out there, too Like species that we've seen once or twice that have never been seen since that like what?Miss Waldron's red colobus is one that comes to mind, so it's called miss Waldron's I think it's called just Waldron's red colobus But it's a colobus monkey that there's like three or four museum specimens and no live specimens.Yeah, really uh -huh There's a few of those yeah Miss Waldron's yeah red colobus.

Why is it called miss Waldron?

I don't know Who's that lady?Good question.What do you have to do with this monkey lady?They're from West Africa, previously described as subspecies, not been sighted since.Oh, I saw it for a second.

And what's crazy is a lot of these animals, especially primates and essentially anything that lives in the Congo, is in a place that's so scary and so dangerous to visit.Yeah.There's not a lot of research being done.

Well, that's always what I tell people when they're like, oh, well, you know, find these animals, find that animals.Nobody's looking.It's too hard.The local people know they're there, like these locals.species are species that the people that hunt and eat them know they're there, but they have no communication to the outside or the scientific world.And, you know, for you or I to go into that part of the Congo is probably a death sentence.

Yeah.But there's a lot of cool stuff out there.

Are there any other animals that might be real that people think they've seen?

As far as like cryptids, it could still be real.

Weird ones.Oh, man.Like the giant sloth or something like that.

I mean, there's that whole, like, the dinosaur in the Congo thing that people always talk about.It's silly.It's not real.I mean, I can't think of any.I think, you know...

David Cho went looking for that one.

Yeah, yeah.Actually, that's one of your pods that I watched the whole thing.He was talking about that.

David's crazy.

Yeah.I can't think of any, but, you know, it's those rumors, like, There's a sloth, we've seen it.There's an Asian unicorn, we've seen it.That if people don't follow, you never know.It's like, you can absolutely be the tinfoil hat guy, like I can be with the thylacine, but if you give up and don't look, you know, we never really know.

It'll probably be in a place like the Amazon or like the Congo, some enormous place.Isn't the Congo as wide as the contiguous North America?

The country or the river?

I think the country of the Congo, the jungle of the Congo, I think is almost as big as America.I did not know it was that large.

Africa's fucking huge.It's huge.If you see, because United States imposed on Africa, you're like, oh my God, the continent of Africa is enormous.

Well, that's what's squirrely about maps, right?Especially like when you look at the globe, like everything's so distorted.Yeah.Which I don't understand why they do that.No.I've never had that explained to me in a way that like, oh, I get it.

Or timelines.Have you ever looked at how like timelines are drawn on the globe?Like, you know, likethe time zones?Oh, right, right, right.So weird.

Like jigsaw puzzles.Squiggly jigsaw puzzles.And you're like, why is that island in this time zone that's three slots over?Like, it makes no sense to me.Doesn't make any sense.Yeah.

But, like, see if you can find the size of the Congo.Like, if you see the size of the Congo, I think it's almost as big as the United States.

It's crazy, I didn't realize that.It's the same, yeah, there are these, there's so many of these incredible remote areas.

I think it's thousands of miles wide.Okay, so if you took that and you shoved it, why doesn't, why doesn't, put it over, right, the bottom one there is a better one.Bottom one, that one's better.So not quite.