JRE MMA Show #179 with Josh Thompson & "Big" John McCarthy

The Joe Rogan Experience.

What's happening?Good to see you.What is up?I enjoy your show.Your show is excellent.You guys have a really good MMA show.

It's really solid.Thank you.

I kind of blew that.How'd you blow it?We can talk about that.You guys are not doing it anymore?I stepped back away when I started refereeing again.

God damn it.You got to go back to doing it.You guys are great.You guys are a great combination.I think I might.

What we did is we started doing McCarthy Mondays.Because when he went back to refereeing, he's not allowed to talk about promotions, not allowed to talk about fighters and what's wrong, and the things that possibly can make some changes.So we just started McCarthy Monday where we just talk about the Joe Schilling situation.That's something we could talk about, right?So I created a show for him to just only do on Mondays.He created.

Nice.Well, it's his input.I was just trying to find ways to keep him involved.

I love that you're refereeing again.We need great referees.I wish you were out there doing both.It doesn't make sense to me that you can't do both.It's not like you're not going to be a great referee while also still being able to comment objectively about promotions.It's important.

It is important.It's important.Where's ever the problem with that?Exactly.But you get these people that, oh no, because you might say something that is going to create a problem.And it's like, it's not a problem if it's the truth.

It's ridiculous.I mean, if that was the case, why, how come I can do it as a commentator?How come all these guys can do it?Because you're the best.Yeah, but I mean, everybody should be able to have a voice, especially referees.You should like, if something happens and you're a referee and you could say, here's my perspective, this is why I did what I did.

I did and you have it on a podcast on a regular basis.That's a benefit to everybody So that is what I'm trying to say

with him.I believe you're right.But what you run into is you run into some issues where the referee says too much and then people come back at him and then the commissions have to answer for it.And then the fighters dig on them.Good.People are talking.

That's how shit gets solved.That's how you don't have like, one hand down is not a downed opponent anymore.Why?Because we fucking complain forever.12 to 6 elbows.They're legit again.

Except in New Jersey.You see the problem?The goddamn problem?When we were in New Jersey, I was like, you gotta be kidding me.How the fuck do you guys not have 12 or 16 elbows?

You can't make it any more complicated for the referees and the fighters.

Bro, it's so dumb.It's the dumbest fucking thing of all time.It's so unfair.to the fighters themselves because you when we went look I was part I wrote those things out and they were passed by the ABC but we gave six months six months because you got to give the fighters time to train to make sure that they get it right okay and so it's put it in it works great and now you expect them to go back to one location in the middle of a fight exactly one location and now they're gonna Automatically go back to the old rules.It's like you do you realize what you're doing to him?

It doesn't make any sense either the old all rules are fucking stupid.We all we all agreed Everybody no one was like no no no twelve elbows are too dangerous.

Oh yes there was Was there people?Oh yeah, your broadcast partner.Shut the fuck up.Which one?Dan Cormier.No.

I swear to God.He says some crazy shit.He does say some crazy shit.DC, I love you if you say some crazy shit.I love him.I love him.

Why did he say that 12 to 6 elbows in the grave?He goes, I think that rule should absolutely, that's dangerous.I swear.

If we're going to ban anything, and I don't think we should ban anything, but if we're going to ban anything, sidekicks to the knees.See, that right there.I don't think we should, but I'm saying if we should, there's an argument that you're going to blow out a guy's knee.

His career will never be the same again.we should absolutely ban kicks to the head and knees to the head.Yes, because what's worse, the blown out knee or the blown out brain?I'm agreeing with you.

I don't think we should ban anything.

There you go.

But there's one thing that does bother me, like the Khalil Roundtree -Modestus -Pekovskis fight.

Remember when his knee went sideways?

Oh, he's fucked for a year at least, if not forever.

Okay, but what's the difference?between that and we'll say, you know, Edson Barbosa.Terry Terry Adam Terry Adam yeah, and that kick to the head you don't think that that was more than a year Terry Adam You know it was really was never the same exactly.

That's my point.Oh.Yeah.I mean that was like getting hit by a meteor Oh, that was just crazy.

I mean it was Absolutely perfectly executed beautiful technique that it absolutely altered and then we talk the way the first wheel kick KO in the US Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, but you look and you go There are those fights and we say it all the time and you know you as the as a referee as a fighter You know with him period is right here.We go and watch this thing.Oh That one was just insane, but you the fighters themselves They get paid to get damaged.I hate to say that but it's the truth That's part of their pay is they go in and they're gonna accept some damage, but you don't want them to have Unnecessary damage right no, but you take a look we go rising rules Because there's something to be said for that.Look it, I've advocated for knees on the ground for a long time.It's never going to happen.

My position is it's better in a ring because you can avoid them a little bit if you're mobile, right?If you're still conscious and you have defensive capability, you can move around knees and kicks.When the cage happens and you're butted up and someone stomps you, that's a totally different angle.

First off, the stomp I don't ever agree with.And the reason why is this.Name me the fight that you saw that a stomp was an effective technique when the fighter was notalready seriously hurt.Doesn't happen.Sakuraba Sakuraba used to do it all the time after he hurt people every time he tried to do it when they weren't hurt They just moved and he was Mongolian stomping on nothing.

Hmm.Go ahead.

Take a look at him Yeah, I'd have to go back and watch.

Yeah, there was there was a Minowa and Phil Barone He did that a couple times with him when Minowa couldn't get the takedown because I was there cornering him for that fight There was that fight then there was um, and then Shogun and ninja remember when they used to like brothers together those guys were Phenomenal Adam.

Oh, and we people that only saw Shogun in pride missed it.

Oh, yeah, you missed it Excuse me on the UFC fight against in pride Quinton Rampage Jackson Was I mean cuz a lot of people didn't you know going into that fight?You know that's rampage.You know this guy's young he absolutely just Annihilated rampage in that fight, and it was like oh my god He's way better than I ever gave him credit for before that fight that fight was That was a coming out party for Shogun.

Yeah, he was a lethal striker.All those Kiritiba guys were so hyper -aggressive.

Yeah, his brother was just as nasty until he got a little chinny after a couple shots big time.

He started fighting big guys.Yeah, that was the problem.Didn't he fight Alexander?Who did he fight?He fought some heavyweight, right?He fought quite a few.

He fought one guy where it was like, what is this?Why is he fighting this guy?

Yeah, I can't remember who it was.

Was it Emilio Inca's brother?I would say it was Alexander Emilio Inca.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying.I think it was that.I think it was.

And it was like one of those fights like, no, no, no, no, no.This is a real fucking heavyweight, a big one with nasty striking.You know, I mean, he was fucking nasty.

He was good.Yeah, he had some smooth striking.People don't give the Millennials as a whole.Alexander was a little bit off a little bit crazy.

Oh a lot.Okay.I'm just On his back like the fucking death holding a baby on his back like that's a choice What is going on in your mind you like this should be on my back permanently That's the brother and then you have a door as the guy who was Even better, look it, Fedor is..

.He was such a good guy.

Look at that fucking tattoo!What does it say in Russian, Jamie?That is the craziest thing.The baby's got a fucking sword and a crown.Oh yeah.And then death is like, yes, let's kill everyone.

Death is right there.Yeah.It's not even a good drawing.It's like, that's some Russian prison shit for sure.That is some Russian prison shit.A hundred percent.

He's a hundred percent committed.

I have a ballpoint pen and a fucking sewing needle.Yup.Yeah.They did that in a Russian prison.A hundred percent.Urine and ash.

Ooh, bro.That's a lot of time.God is with us.Are you sure?

Are you sure, based on that photo?And then you got his brother.His brother has no tattoos.

No tattoos.He can find a small little wooden cross on his chest.I know, right?

He's so stoic.Oh, he's awesome.Alexander Milianenko, James Thompson fight.

The best is the look on Alexander's face throughout all of the I'm going to fall asleep.Yeah, it's just completely stoic.Look at Thompson.

So worked up starts pounding his chest.

He's shaking.

Look at it.He's ready to fuck.He just stepped out of a bar.He's no flexing at all.Doesn't even let his hands go.all the way.

Hey, everybody got the belly hanging out a little bit It's awesome.

Look how chilly looks.

Yeah, I'm gonna go fade or looks to like no worries at all Look at James.He's so fucking hyped up It's like I'll have Swiss cheese and mustard sandwich It's vicious.

He rocks him too, right off the bat.

James comes charging at him, puts him down, but he wasn't hurt.It's like he fell down.That hurt.That hurt James.

That hurt James.Once he starts connecting.Oh, yeah.He had that Soviet style fluid boxing that just whip punches.

Look, I'll tell you what.I worked out with Fedor.And it was a great moment in my life.If you're going to sit there and say, well, if you're gonna get your ass kicked, it's a great moment.But the one thing I always thought, you know, before, you know, watching him, reffing him, I go, he's got to have some kind of, you know, like, just hard strength, you know?Right, right.

No.He's fast and I mean super fat when he explodes in and his hands are down kind of so it's hard to see when the shots are coming and everything he does he just explodes into and you go oh I get it because you got to work really hard to try to stay up with his speed when he also is exploding and then it's like He doesn't get tired, and you're starting to get tired cuz you're having to match that rpm that he's at right And he's not a big heavyweight.No.

He's not which I think is a real benefit It is until you're frightened the guy like in Ghana.Yeah, I'm like Yeah, there's a problem there.Oh, yeah, I can be patient yeah 265 naturally nuclear power and got in Ghana will hit you anywhere in the head.

It's a problem.You're in trouble Yeah, it's a real problem.Yeah, he had Philip.You know Lin's hit him on the basic of the headthat you wouldn't even say the temple hit him almost to the top of the head and look he was out I mean he's not being able to Control his body that guy's got the ability to hurt you know when he fought Cain.Yeah, you know take a look Yeah, it wasn't a great shot right, but it hurt him Yeah, he's got crazy power.

Yeah, just nuts.But Fedor was a different thing because Fedor had that like, that Russian style of movement that you see like Dmitry Bivol has, where they're real relaxed, and then they explode.

Yeah, exactly.

And the footwork and movement.

That little bit of a bounce.He's got that little bit of a bounce.In, out, just sit there and wait.And he waits for your motion to come where he wants it to be.And then he changes that distance and just cracks.

Fedor did a really good job of coming around your guard as well.So it wasn't just a big straight right all the time.Rich Franklin used to do that as well.He'd come around you.your guard you put your hands up and Fedor had a he did a great job with that coming around and landing the big overhand right and then he'd come up uppercut then he'd take you down or hip toss you body lock you.

And if you took him to the ground off his back he's got one of the quickest fucking arm bars in the game which is nuts.Hongman Choi.He looks like a little kid.

He's all stretched out.He's off the ground completely.

He was great everywhere.And you think about him as being this overall picture of one of the greatest, if not the greatest MMA fighter of all time, but people forget his stand -up was so good that the Cro Cop fight was mostly stand -up.He wrote the blueprint on how to beat Cro Cop.Exactly.You gotta be him to do it, though.The thing, I mean, he, first of all, his stand -up has always been real dangerous, but also, it's like, the way he was able to check that left kick, he was doing a lot of lifting the knee up and catching it.

Yeah, up high.But how many people had you seen that would back Cro Cop onto his back foot and march forward?Nobody.Cro Cop, exactly.Not in his prime.That was the difference, is when you looked at it, he's standing up.

nope, I'm going to make you go backwards.And it took a lot of what Crow Cop did.And it just nullified a lot of it.

A lot of it was the threat of the grappling.

That was a big part of it.

Because then Fedor didn't have to worry about if he did slip and fall.If he threw a big shot and he got cut from underneath if he did fall to the ground.Crowcrop was going to fall him to the ground.He could just hop back up.So there was that and then on top of it too when you fought him in the phone booth.You're not worried as much for that head kick to get there if I'm within inches of you.

That left kick was ...

There's this picture of Heath Herring where the shin is like halfway into Heath's ribs.I know exactly what you're talking about.You know that picture?Yes, I do.It's crazy.You see Crowcrop's shin is just so deep you just feel your own liver.

I've seen the Vanderlei ones because Vanderlei has his ribs were just ...Look at that picture.

Look at that picture.Bro, that's crazy.Do you know how much that hurts?Actually, I do.

That's the part where you look at people and you go, you know, do you realize, yeah, that would hurt a little.No, no, no.Your entire body is going, I quit.

It just seizes up.He had such explosive power and he to me He was like the first guy to figure out how to transition from kickboxing to MMA.

Yeah, because he did it with explosiveness But Maurice Smith, you got to give that's true Maurice Smith.I got it.That's true.

That's true Maurice Maurice was the first but crow cop was in that same era.I'm doing it in pride Yeah, and all those other guys like Ernesto who's it didn't really work out for them when they like he only fought Bob Sapp in a kickboxing fight, but even when they were fighting like bigger like Krokop fucked up Bob Sapp.Like same era.Same time period.It was that exclusiveness.Whereas guys like Peter Aerts, that wouldn't translate as well in MMA.

Elite strikers, but they wanted to get into a rhythm, they wanted to get into situations and exchanges, and with Krokop it was these one

shots were coming at you like nuclear missiles and it was a different threat it was a completely different threat than a lot of other guys because he was so explosive yeah yeah he's Krokop was what a great guy oh he's awesome as far as you know and but his left kick has to be the best left kick that there's ever been in the sport of MMA.

Yeah, I don't think you could even think of a second place.Like, who's got a better left kick than Crocodile?Maybe Edson Barboza's switch kick.That switch kick was preposterous.In his prime, he would kick and I'd be like, is something wrong with my eyes?It was like a 120 pound guy.

It was so fast.Dana called me a couple of times to fight him and I was like, rank number three.He was like, just hit number 15.I'm like, no.Give me a higher rank.

Sorry, dude.It's not that I wouldn't find it.

Give me a higher rank.

Make it make sense.Help me help you.At this time in my life, make it make sense.

When he came in, though, you got to look at Barbosa.He's been there a long time now when you think about it.Still going at it.But when he came in, It was like, dude, this is a next level of stand -up ability with what this guy can do.And it was like...And oddly, mostly kicks.

Like his boxing wasn't threatening like his kicks were.It was not equal.It was mostly kicks.

You're right.No.If he could have developed something along the Jose Aldo level of boxing, where he ripped the body, came back at the top of the head with those kicks, I mean...

Aldo's takedown defense was nuts.

Probably the best, I think probably the best in the sport that we've seen.

I mean, honestly.Other than BJ and his prime.Yeah, right, with the one leg hop.B .J.'s prime was ridiculous.His balance was fucking insane.

But I think he's the only guy that didn't get taken down by Murab.When Murab and him fought three times,rounds, I think Murab went for like 90 fucking takedowns or something.And I don't think Murab took him down.I think Murab mostly won that fight up against the cage, hitting him with punches, working for takedowns, cage damage.

Extremely underestimated Jose Aldo's takedown defense.

You take a look and...Aldo doesn't now, all of a sudden, it's kind of like the Anderson Silva thing, all of a sudden it's like, well, let's talk about the very best in the 145 pound, and look it, Alexander Volkanovsky's right there, he's phenomenal.I'm not saying, don't forget.what Jose Aldo did.Absolutely.I mean, through the WEC, into being the UFC champion, all those fights, man, I'll tell you what, that guy was absolutely nuts as far as how good he was at one time.

Well, I think it was also because he was an elite soccer player and the ability to, like, have you ever watched a live soccer game, a professional soccer match?You're like, oh Jesus like they're athletes.They don't get to slow down.They don't have a like there's no halftime There's no like big break for commercials.There's no bullshit.They just go there's no timeouts giant fucking legs Yeah, they all have insane leg power because they're just sprinting all day long and you go Oh, well, that would translate perfectly to MMA for kicking for moving for footwork think about all it's not just that right It's it's the stop and go stop and go like in a real fight, right?

I get a takedown I get to rest for a second then he postures back up and gets back to his feet.I gotta go again, sprints again, get the takedown.In soccer, same thing.You run hard down the line, oh, the ball gets turned back.Now you kind of jog back a little bit, now the ball gets played to you.It's the stop and go of sprinting, just like a real fight.

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Yeah Grinding of the wrestling and just the cardio fatigue and understanding that I can push through when I get tired because there's nothing more Satisfying you know in terms of when you run down the line the guy plays the ball into the corner and you got to beat that Defender there, and you cross it across and you're it's that sprinting down there to beat him But then also to in wrestling knowing that you can break another human being like I need to break you mentally Grinding you and hang on you those two sports.I think are huge for the sport and getting used to suffering dehydrated Right, there's a big factor.

Yeah, the weight cuts.Getting used to suffering.Yeah, but the weight cuts and having to compete on the same day as weight cuts is a big difference.And for people that have never done that before and don't know it's fucking hard.Even 24 hours is hard.Weight cutting is the grossest thing in MMA.

It is.They should figure out a way to stop it.Totally.I don't know what the way is.There is no way.

You're going to talk about one of the most dangerous things that you do with it.Think about this, Joe.Every sport, soccer, football, baseball, basketball, they all have team chefs.They all have all these things.As far as we want our athletes to be as physically ready and have the right nutrition and all these things, what's the sports that do that?We go and we starve our athletes and dehydrate them.

24 hours before a cage fight.The dumbest thing ever.24 hours before the most demanding, most dangerous sport in the world.

Yep.But Joe, even if we did it the same day, fighters would still cut weight to try and make that weight.

The question is I wonder if there's a way to prevent that like the way to prevent that I would say is everybody Here's your mandate.No one's getting out of shape anymore because we're gonna have random weigh -ins So we're gonna just show up at your fucking gym can't do it But but you could you like let's say you fight at 170 you cannot weigh more than 180 here's the day I'll show up at your fucking house at 7 in the morning Josh get on the scale 175 this is not good.

You could do it as a promotion You can't do it as an industry within the sport and the reason why I'm telling saying that is first off you have all these fighters will say they're all everywhere okay all over the world and For a for an Athletic Commission.We'll say the state of California state of Texas.They have to have that particular fighter licensed for them to say we want to weigh you if They're not licensed in that state on that year They can't.They can sit there and go, no.

But if it got adopted by the UFC, I bet most of the organizations would adopt it as well.

But again, that's the UFC as a promotion.The UFC has talked about it.And the UFC has the money to actually do that.But it's going to cost them a lot of money.And look, I understand why the promotion doesn't want to lose money by just weighing people.

I think the fight's going to be better.I think guys would be in way better condition.

We've seen and it's exactly what you're talking about stop cutting as much weight You could sit there, and you know the only way an athletic commission could kind of do it And but this is bad on promotions is an athletic commission could sit there and say you're allowed to weigh no more than five pounds More than that weigh in weight mm -hmm, okay, but here's your problems with it.Yeah First off, the promotion can lose fights.The promotion doesn't want to lose fights.And the second part is, what's saying that the fighter themselves is not keeping themselves dehydrated to make that five pound, and now they're going in even more dehydrated into the fight, which could cause them more problems.

Well, they couldn't be dehydrated through their entire camp, and that's where you institute randoms.

That's why your randoms would work if, The promotion was doing it.Yeah, but it would have to do it sport wide.

It'd be almost impossible It would have to take a long time to figure out how to do it properly and not lose fights Because there's too many guys that fuck around.Oh, you know this right?There's too many guys that like like how many times is John Jones not really trained?You know, like the Gustafsson fight, the first one, they said he didn't really train.

Ten days.

Showed up a little bit here and there, didn't really train.So if there's a guy like that, what, are you going to not let him fight?Like, what are you going to do?Like, he weighs 226, and you're like, no, that's too much?

You also have guys like Michael Morales right now, 170 pounders, walking around like huge, guys like 210, 212, 205.

I mean, there's a few of those guys where I'm standing next to them, like Gregory Rodriguez.I'm like, how?Yeah.

How are you ever 185 pounds?How was Alex 185 pounds?I stand next to him and go, you gotta be shitting me.Nuts.Nuts.

It's unbelievable.And at 185 pounds, nuclear power, but I don't think he took a shot as well.

He didn't.There's no doubt about it.You can go back and look at his fights.He got hurt by shots that were not as hard as the ones he's taken at 205.Based upon, it's that weight cut.It's the point of diminishing returns, right?

It is.It's like there's a place where you're just doing it too much.And you kind of love to see freaks.You love to see a guy like Alex weighing at 185.You're like, good luck with that.Good luck with this 226 pound fucking Amazon warrior that pretended to be 185 for five minutes.

For five minutes.

Take a look at I'm so surprised how he can make the weight when you pass by him you see how tall it's not big He is you see him with the face off with Cyril gone right now.You're like how would this guy ever make 185?He's 250 now.

Oh, yeah, which is crazy I saw him last week, and it's like she's 250 means that's almost 70 pounds different from his UFC debut The only thing that makes me believe we're going to see a better Alex is because he doesn't have to kill himself.Yeah, but he also put on muscle.And there's an issue with that.

Exactly.Again, diminishing returns.How much is that muscle going to do?This is what you try to tell all fighters.Joe, when you were fighting in Taekwondo, did you care about the strong guy?Or did you care about the fast guy?

The difference is MMA with grappling.

The difference is with weight, like if you get a big, heavy guy and he gets on top of you, all your speed is gone.Absolutely.

You're right.

It's gone within the first three or four minutes.

But the problem with being the bigger, stronger guy in the lighter weight class is you're never the faster guy.And so you've got to be able to maul that person to be effective.And it only lasts for a certain amount of time if you had to dehydrate yourself to that point, where speed is always there when someone has it to a point unless they get tired.And that speed is hard for you to handle.

But there's guys that were big for the weight class and had ridiculous speed, like Conor McGregor is a perfect example.of that.Conor at 145 was fast as fuck.

Conor was absolutely dehydrated to the point of being a concentration camp victim.Oh yeah, he looked like death.I mean, it was unbelievable.However, once he got in there, he was fast as fuck.He used to lose so much.At 145, he was...

He was killing yeah, I remember the weigh -ins like interview him at weigh -ins like this is Skeletor.Oh my god, but then you see in the next day all full.

I know you look good, but again good He was also.What was his age back then 26 27 right right?

You can't do that now No, you can't do that now no it gets a certain point in time when you have to realize you're cutting too much weight And it's actually ruining your career But I think the evidence has been pretty clear when you see guys go up and wait after killing themselves for so long they've had success a lot of guys have I just had Dustin Poirier on the podcast yesterday and and we were just talking about how he's like look max the first time He came up to 55 didn't put the weight on properly second time put it on properly.He's like Significant difference in power.Oh, yeah ability movement and then we fight with gauging.

Oh, come on, man That's yeah, that guy should never went down to 45 again to fight to Poirier.

It's too much loss We had that argument about that that exact thing of he would Josh was saying look he should never it was a championship fight Yeah, he was getting a world title fight at 145.Yeah, right, and I said look it's a world title fight I understand why he's going back down.He's going.He's making a huge mistake.It should never take it He should stay at 155.You know work yourself into a title fight, and I go I I understand why he's taking it.

It's a title fight.That made him the number one contender.He beat Justin Gaethje.He could have fought Islam.

I understand why he took the fight at 45.So do I. Maybe he would have favored that fight with Ilya, because Ilya is a smaller guy than Islam.Because if you think about it, Islam, he fucking smothers everybody.

Yeah, he does.I know.

And his striking is dangerous as fuck.

Well, of course you know.

I know.A hundred thousand times.But it's like that guy's he's so fucking terrifying once he gets a hold of you like it's everybody He's a whole lot better in the stand -up than people give him credit.

Oh, he is his stand -up is actually really I don't care Volkanovsky took it on 11 days notice.

He's still head kick.

He's got a sneaky left head kick high kick.

It's nasty He fucks people up standing up and that's part of the problem.Is it like you get accustomed to?

Yeah, and then all sudden bing yeah, my point was though was that there was no he put the weight on He looked fantastic against Justin Gaethje.And then to go back down there to fight Iliad, I was like, it doesn't make sense.You're the number one guy or number two guy.It is.You kill yourself to get back down, and then he gets knocked out, which we had never seen before.

Well, that's Roy Jones Jr. too, right?Remember when Roy Jones Jr. went up and fought Ruiz, and then he went all the way down to 75 and got knocked out by Tarver.It's like, I don't think your body wants to go back down again.You put on all that weight over like a year, you're lifting weights, and Max had like a ridiculous strength and conditioning.He put real weight on.He looked very good at 55.

When Max fought Aldo the first time for the title, he weighed in at championship weight 145 the night of the fight, Joe.Now he was in street clothes, but they put him on a scale.178.

What?

I swear to God.170 now he's still he was still clothed that's wearing rocks in his pockets Frank Shamrock with quarters in his pockets Let's just be real charitable and say his clothes weigh 10 pounds exactly that's crazy You're looking at more than 20 pounds, but that's crazy the show that just happened in California they know what doing with that the MVP the one guy I can't you know 27 pound difference in weight at 170 pounds came in 27 197 who was it I?Want to say his name?

was the guys right before Saladin yeah Parnas I can't frame a free free mod starts with a Z I want to say I can't think of it but 27 pounds well obviously the biggest one was Rumble Johnson Rumble Johnson was the craziest he would weigh 230 and make it all the way but basically what Morales is doing right now MVP event on Netflix.Fazeal.Fazeal, there you go.Namo Fazeal.Recorded the highest weight gain.27 .2 pounds.

That's insane.

Can you believe that?That's insane.That's so much.He got in the cage at 198 for a 170 pound fight.I would love to get Morales on the scales.Like right before he fought Sean Brady.

Oh, yeah.

Excuse me, sir.Sean Brady is a thick guy.He's not super tall, but he's thick.He is put together.And Morales made him look like a lightweight.

Like he was in the wrong division.Exactly.

I was trying to make sense of it watching it on TV.I thought maybe it was the camera angle, and then they shifted.

I was like, no, he's still bigger than him when he's further away.

He's further away, he's still bigger.

He's way bigger than him.That's a crazy situation where a guy can do that.And it's like the Pereira situation in 88 .52.When a guy can do that, How long can you do it?That's you know because you're basically killing your kidneys every time you do it You're just taking a little bit out of them.

That was the problem with AJ You know yeah like I used to coach in corner AJ early in his career when he first came to the UFC And that was his problem.He'd make weight sometimes.He'd make it sometimes He would he missed weight a lot to the point that affected.Yeah, absolutely God, that's fucking horrible.

Yeah, that's fucking horrible again You're leaving small bits and pieces of yourself in that damn cage every time, even when you win.

There's a true science to cutting weight, and he didn't have it down.He wrestled division two.He was a really good wrestler.He knew how to make weight.

but then trying to kill himself to get to 70 every single time which he never had to be Has massive power he did great at heavyweight heavyweight in the world series of He was still super legit Super legit now fucking guy wins bare knuckle heavyweight championship at like 100 years old Fought it smart.

Yeah, there's a you take a look at Andre Arlovsky people say whatever they want about his career is amazing since UFC 28 was his first show not okay went all the way went all the way into today's day basically and But he changed his style You know, Arlosky was a big power puncher for a long time and then was getting hit with big shots and said, you know what, I'm going to be a volume guy.And he was successful with it.And didn't take near as much damage.Yeah, he fought a lot more technical, a lot slicker.Didn't take big chances.

Beat a lot of good guys, too.Beat Travis Brown when Travis was in his prime.

Oh, that fight with Travis Brown.Amazing.

freaking awesome fight awesome awesome awesome fight yeah look at here he beat rothwell he tore rothwell up which is a lot of people were super surprised by that oh yeah a lot of people thought you know rothwell's a tank of a man yeah and he's a fucking scary big puncher and he just looks hairy like a fucking bear he's scary rothwell's close to 400 pounds that's crazy is that real yeah it's real he's really that big he's that big he's that big unbelievable but meanwhile he's the one getting busted up in this fight and it was because you know, Arlovsky was just fighting very clever.Just so tough after all these years, man.

You watch this fight right now, they think that this fight gets stopped for that cut on his forehead.That is not why.He has a cut on his eye, running up into his tear duct, and that's why it wasn't that big of a cut, but any time it got cut,the tear duct The doctor's saying, oh no, it's over.

Yeah, to touch on what John was saying, though, is it really just comes down to how he changed his style of fighting.He either fought you all the way in or all the way out.He fought you in that phone booth so you couldn't get off big power shots to avoid being knocked out.Because he went through a phase where he was getting clipped a lot and getting knocked out.Getting hurt.

Yeah.

So he made that adjustment.That's good on him.

And all those years in the game, never lost his enthusiasm?No.He's a character.Never got out of shape.

He's fighting influencers at shows.

Have you?I draw that.Those fucking dumb kids I write a little bit it's running around trying to get him.

I was like.What are you guys doing?Are you crazy?Do you know that is the best part wasn't that the flim florist or kid goes?

Hey, you can fight my bodyguard bodyguards in the background going uh -uh sure Bodyguard doesn't know who her loft is you need to get a new bodyguard He's telling him that my bodyguard will fight him.I was like, oh Jesus Christ, did you guys watch the Rico Verhoeven Usyk fight?

Oh, yes.I watched the ending.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.I don't want to say robbery because I guess apparently Usyk was up on the scorecards two to one.

That's robbery.That's the robbery.Yeah, that's the robbery.If that's the case, that's the robbery.

He was up, I guess.I thought, first off, Rico Verhoeven You know we know what he's been in kickboxing, and he's been fantastic greatest of all time unbelievable time Yeah, and you can look back on certain people you know Ernesto who's how great he was Bata Hari was a badass all of them were awesome, but Rico's accomplished more than any absolutely He's been undefeated for like more than 10 years in kickboxing.That's not yes It is that's not especially with the amount of rounds Comparatively and stuff because you can have a bad round and it can really affect your fight just like MMA mm -hmm But this fight, I really thought going in, I go, look, Rico will do okay for the first couple rounds, and then it's gonna start to get to him.No, I was shocked by it.

He fought very clever, and he didn't fight.

He didn't fight big He actually created the problems of closing that distance Every time he said, look how close he gets, he kept on getting into the foam booth.And he would do work.And it was causing Usyk nothing but problems.

Also, Rico is known for his discipline and his fitness.Yes.Like he's a guy who always has tremendous conditioning.And I think there's a lot of heavyweights that would be surprised at the work that this guy does and the pace that he could put on.So a lot of people are like, oh, he's going to get tired.

He only fights three minute rounds.Honestly, when I was thinking it gets past five rounds, I'm wondering how he's going to be able to hold that pace.

The guy's such a cardio fiend and he's always shredded and it's just he's so used to combat to that like getting in there Just fighting usik.It's not a big deal that right hand right there was I mean beautiful, bro He was winning 8 to 2 in my eyes Okay I thought he was winning 8 to 2 going into the 11th round when the fight was stopped now the fight shouldn't have been stopped the way it was stopped, but also That was in eight seconds after the knockdown.So after he gets knocked down, he doesn't have his mouthpiece, so then they have to go over to the corner, they rinse off his mouthpiece.

Okay, that's a mistake right there.

Yeah, the whole thing's a mistake.It takes like 30 seconds, and then the referee stops it when he's still standing moving around.

Look, if there's one of the things that's changed in boxing since I, like, I referee boxing now.So here it is right here.This is the end.We could watch it real quick.

So this is the end.Look at all this time.So he's up, and he goes over.This is a mistake right here.Lumbering over to his corner.Hey, come on over.

Watch the first thing that happens, and this is what we'll talk about.

Oh, oh, a drop.That's on purpose.Of course.I'm doing that on purpose.Of course, I would.Any second counts.

But then look at this.So he swarms him with some punches, but Rico's moving.He's covering up.He's moving.What is he supposed to do?What is he supposed to do?

That's a bad stoppage.

I agree with you.

So if you're going to stop him,because you felt like the first knockdown was too much, why would you let him rinse the glove off?And he didn't take significant damage after that.That's a bad stoppage.And it's also the end of the round.One second.

It's the end of the round.It's literally the end of the round.

I think he actually stops it when the round's over.But look, as the referee, Joe, you know all of this.And if you don't, you're not doing your job.First off, You know, he's got a full minute.If I let this go one second, he's got a full minute to recover here.Even if I did think he was a little bit hurt.

Now, I think that if that was a legitimate eight count and they went right back to fighting, he would have stopped him there.Maybe.I think he was really rocked.When you see him go back to his corner, maybe is the key word.

See, one of the things that used to be, though, in boxing, it was always that you would, if a mouthpiece hit the ground, you had to take it to the corner, have it rinsed with water, and have it placed back in the fighter's mouth.Okay, that's not the way it is anymore because of MMA and the fact that we take a we take a mouthpiece off Of the ground and shoot stuff it right back in the fighters mouth They have now changed to the point of they do the same thing and the difference is Many times we'll hand the mouthpiece to the to the MMA fighter because they have you know Gloveless fingers right right and they put it back in sometimes We'll put her back in depending upon situations, but in boxing now you take it.I'll put it back in his mouth I'll say is that good?Fight and you don't is that how does one how does an Egypt as well?

Do you think that's possible?

You're talking about you know with under the unified rules of boxing now, which is North America, okay?Okay, that's you know most of the time you go to Egypt.They're still fighting under the unified rules but the refereeing Is always going to be different when you get a referee from England or somewhere.It's a little bit different.

But I wonder if the referee rules are different over there.If you're supposed to rinse off the mouthpiece before you put it back.

No.What it means is you have not advanced as a referee to understand what we do now.

Right.But what I'm saying is.do they have different rules over?

No, this is what I'm saying advanced as a referee So what we do now mouthpiece goes down you pick it up Yes, so it's like when the UFC goes to a country that doesn't have a commission They sometimes they'll bring herb D and they'll bring referees with them So they know the rules to make sure that something like this doesn't happen that referee hasn't followed up with the rules In a big -time fight, so he's not he's not gone and and advanced his you know training to understand.

This is what we do now And this is why because we don't want I don't want to take that time from usik because usik did his job, right?He hit him with an uppercut that absolutely Blasted and puts him on the mat you go and he gets up you give him no mandatory now his mouthpiece comes out Am I gonna walk it over to a corner and have that mouthpiece washed out with water which does what for it?So it doesn't do anything Obviously if there's something in the mouthpiece we remove the thing from the mouthpiece, but you know normally it's just spitting blood if that's what's there put it back in boom bring him back in as Abruptly as you can to make it fair for usik who gained an advantage in the fight You don't want to give the advantage Also, his mouthpiece came out earlier in the fight as well.

It's like that's a bad mouthpiece for a guy who's a world -class kickboxer, world champion kickboxer.

That thing should be so hard for you to pull out.

Yeah.It's odd that it kept falling out of his mouth.Rico with a boiling bite is nuts.

Right?

In the heavyweight division?

Hold on.

Do you remember Karl Parisian?Sure.He would wear a boiling bite that wasn't boiled.Oh, dude.Straight out of the packaging.This is the way people are, though.

That's wild to me.Boiling bites are nuts.Well, it's also nuts.We talk about this on the USC broadcast all the time, but I think it's nuts that you're still allowed to wear a tie, Steele.cup.I think it's fucking crazy.

That's what I would wear.I would too.100%.

That's all I ever wore.I can't wrap my head around how fighters don't wear them.100%.

I agree with you 100%.However, it should be illegal.

It's fucking crazy.You have a piece of metal over your dick.

You have actual iron over your cock, and if a guy kicks it with his toe, it's going to shatter.

I've always wondered the north -south position.You just start humping their head, right?Oh, dude.

Just giving them the business.There was one that did that.Remember that guy I trained with him at legends and he mounted me once and he almost made me tap, right?Yeah by just digging his dick into my sternum Also awesome for arm bar, yes, that's how Frank Muir broke Tim Sylvia's arm.

Oh, yeah Completely makes sense.Yeah But I think would have broken it if it was just as nuts well the strongest Frank Strong as he was how good his armor was in that position.

That was a crazy situation Oh, yes, it was crazy because I don't think the people in the audience had any idea.

Oh, it happened Are you if you go back to that you know cuz Herb Dean was a referee and Herb did a great job But it was I was actually in the corner of Tim Sylvia.You know where I was sitting and I had Jeremy Horn and Matt Hughes and Pat Miletic are in his corner, right?And I had the same view that they had.And what you saw was Tim Sylvia, but you saw his elbow out from that arm bar, away from the hip.And all of a sudden, Herb's stopping it.And they are going crazy.

They're going, what are you doing?And they're calling him every name in the book.And I go right inside the octagon, and I go, Herb, what did you have?And he goes, John, his arm broke.I go, his arm broke?And he goes, I heard it and I saw it.

Yeah, you can see the vibration.And he goes, his arm broke.Right.And so at the time, the The person who was in charge of the medical staff for the Nevada State Athletic Commission since it was in Nevada They're looking at Tim and Tim is like going you know But you saw Tim slowly stopped doing using that one arm started going down the side as as Reality started setting in and the pain started coming, but they basically said there's nothing wrong with his arm Right I swear to you Herb Herb's greatest response.I've ever heard He goes x -ray that motherfucker Because Herb never cusses, right?He goes, x -ray that motherfucker.

It's broken, right?And sure enough.Straight across both bones.

Well, we could see it in the real arm.Yeah, cuz everybody was booing I'm like you got to watch this watch this.What's that?What's that right there?

When I saw it the first time on TV I thought I'd just shift it off of the cup because sometimes you'll see that the bone will shift off Like that highlight where something bends like a piece of plastic That was our he's broken more arms like he broke no Gara's arm that's Spiral fracture with the Kimura, yeah.

He's nasty, man.It's funny, because if you're around Frank and you're talking, he'll always say, Oh, here it is.

Oh, God, I don't want to watch it again.Oh, watch it.

Boom, boom.

Here it comes.

Right here.

Pop.Oh, God.

And it's the forearm, too, which is super unusual.

And everyone's wondering, why'd you stop it?Why'd you stop it?Oh, dude.Herb was getting booed out of the arena there.I remember this.I remember this.

And Tim was complaining.Oh, yeah.Like, come on, bro.Like, you know what just happened.He has to know what just happened.

Oh, he knows.

He's just such an animal.He wanted to fight with a broken arm.Which, you know, literally, you might have to get it amputated if you did that.Oh.Like, who knows what kind of damage you would have after that.

You could lose your arm.Yeah, you literally could lose your arm.But you'll get people all the time.I mean some of the commentators and some of the shows, you know, oh if he wants to fight let him fight It's like shut up.Okay.Yeah, this is Exactly, this is not life and death.

Yeah, if you lose a fight, I know it sucks, but it just sucks and it's not life and death It's okay crazy situations like Carlos Oldberg who knocks out Europe or Oscar with a clearly blown out.Oh, yeah Like if that went to the round at the end of the round, it would probably stop the fight Well think about what Santos right?

He had a fight in John Jones with two torn out ACLs and PCLs, right?

That's Jon Jones!That gave him a good fight.It gave him a great fight.I think that was a split decision.Oh, it was.Which is nuts.

It's nuts.He could have won.We had one more incompetent judge.

Now we're going to incompetent judges.Now we're going to have problems.

Well, whoever was judging the Usyk fight was incompetent.Those people were ridiculous.The fact that they didn't have Rico ahead is crazy.I think when you've got a guy like Usyk, who's arguably the greatest heavyweight boxer of all time, he's definitely in the conversation.And then you have so much money involved in him being undefeated.And whether the referee's corrupt or not, they know.

Whether the judges are corrupt or not, they know.And if they fuck things up for everybody, there's some weird shenanigans that go on in boxing.You remember that lady that scored It was a Pacquiao fight against Tim Bradley.She was one of the ones that she scored a bunch of fights.

I thought you were going to talk Canelo against GGG.

There was a Canelo one that she scored bad?Yeah.She scored a bunch of fights where you're like, what the hell?is this and then you have to realize about betting props Yeah, no, no, it's not Adelaide bird though.

No Adelaide bird was was the Very nice lady.She's like I'm gonna give her props to In this, first off, she doesn't do a whole lot of boxing, but she does do a lot of MMA, does a lot of the UFC still.That woman watches more fights, goes to more trainings.She puts in all the time that you could imagine to always try to get better.She is asking questions all the time.Now, if you're gonna sit there and say, well, has she, you know, can she roll?

No, she can't.But she knows what, if you say, okay, what's this?She'll tell you.What's this?She knows it.I'm sure she puts in that time, but you know you're always gonna have the there's certain fights.

No matter what you They're always gonna be there.

You know as the judge you always you're trying to do your best yeah, but there's this one where she was involved in quite a few like ridiculous ones and the Tim Bradley Manny Pacquiao one was a big one and then they looked at some other ones and then she stepped away from it the problem is and I'm not accusing this lady or anybody of this, but I'm saying that some people have done this in the past is that All you have to do is make it a split decision.All you have to do is be one shitty judge that even though was clearly for this guy you say it's for that guy and Someone's making a ton of loot.Yeah, especially in this day and age with betting 100 % man of the UFC has a real problem Oh, yeah, there's a real problem with quite a few fights the FBI has looked into quite a few fights There's one that they focused on the beginning because they knew that there was some improper betting But now they're focused on a bunch of other ones as well.

Yeah, but I'm gonna say this I think you can get away with it John to think that you're gonna be able to get away with it You're an idiot fucking stupid.You're an idiot as the fighter.You're a fool, but if you if you if you were a fighterthe judging especially in the UFC because it's mainly a lot of the same guys you know they these guys are on text links they are consistently every Joe every UFC fight my phone blows up it blows up with fighters it blows up from other officials asking quite what about that what did you see what do you think and it's because look if there is at times We get media and we get you know people, you know talk about our fights that call robberies when there's no robbery It's a close fight, right?And if you know you wanted your guy to hello did not win.Yeah fucking robbery You know, I pointed out to him.

I had him sit one time Hey sit where the judge sits because you get one view you as the commentator you get that beautiful monitor that's in front of you there's times when you're watching the fight live and there's times when you're watching the monitor because Angles change as the judge now they put the monitor there for the judges in the end like the UFC puts a great monitor there for him But we didn't always have that right and you didn't always Many times you had the worst seat in the house to be able to judge a fight There's a post in front of you.Yeah, and it's so different than what people think and it's when you are the one that's putting your name on on that scorecard, you're signing it, and you know this counts.It's everything.It is everything to you to be right.You want to be right.But many times what you're seeing And that's why they're at the three different points, and that's why something you know people get into this What was the split decision split decision is not always bad?

Do you think there be a benefit in having five judges instead of three no no?

I've worked with it.I've done it too many times.It doesn't change anything.It doesn't doesn't change anything I'm just being honest if it did I would say yeah, we should do it But if you have two bad judges than three good ones.Why do you have why do you have two bad judges?

That's the question that is when you're on the road.Let's be honest.We're on the road.We do it.Let's not even name a state, but we show up.We have to use these regular local guys there have been issues.

I'm not saying there have it.

I'm not saying there are bad judges.Yes.

Absolutely.

I love cops.There's bad cops.There are I love dentists.There's some bad dentists There's some fucking people that do surgeries that don't have to do them.You know, I mean, oh, yeah It's like it doesn't it's not saying that the people that do it and do a great job shouldn't be supported and praised and they definitely should but it's also it's like it would benefit I think everybody to have a few more opinions.Like I like verdict.

Have you seen verdict MMA?

I Bumped him up a bunch of times.

I think they're accurate like 99 % of the time I look at the verdict score.

I'm like most close time out of a hundred fights most the time I agree with the burger score There's many times though you can take a look at this way when I started teaching the command course and everything people Oh, you got to teach stuff.I'm teaching people to take my job Right okay, but in the end.I need a lot of referees luckily They need a lot of judges, but they also need a lot of referees for the big ones where you can't fuck this up Okay, I mean yeah like that's it's important, but it's not the job that people think it is It is not as easy as people think it is oh, it's definitely not and it's definitely the hardest job next to being a fighter Yeah I think it's fighters number one referees number two Yes, and no and you're right as far as the fighting is much more difficult as far as you know What it does to your body and and what you have to put out into it and all that Way more difficult.

Also, the consequences of fucking it up.

Boom.

I don't have the consequences.If I make a bad call as a commentator, it's like, oh, Joe's an idiot.That doesn't mean anything.Nobody loses money.Somebody could lose half their fucking purse, which I hate, by the way.I don't like the whole win bonus.

Everyone's trying to win.

I hate it.Can't stand it.

Can't stand it.it.You should get paid.You're a prize fighter.You should get paid to compete.This is the number, whether it's 200 ,000 or two, it shouldn't be dependent upon judges decisions.

It should be dependent upon you showed up, you fought your fucking ass off.You're trying to win.If you win, you're going to make more money.No one's trying to lose.Right?So it's like, what are we doing?

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bonuses I think you you know the fact that there have been bad decisions and guys have lost half their fucking purse when they need it and it's it's you got robbed that's when you really got robbed yes not just a decision absolutely got robbed financially which is fucking crazy to me I think fighters should get I don't think they fight harder I don't think they want to win that's it no one's fighting hard it's just something sitting out there and if they are they probably shouldn't be fighting

you anyway Well, I always they're not at a elite like world -class level if they're fighting harder for if you're in the top 15 You're not gonna fight harder because you're getting paid more you've worked your way there to get there your pride is to involve your egos Involved you want to fucking good.

Yeah I've always said look if you ask a fighter before the fight Hey, how much you gonna win for that if they're gonna get a 40 -40 and they're gonna get a 50 -50 there's a hundred thousand They've already mentally spent that money.Yeah, trust me.It's always a true.Thank you They've got that windows in there.

I'm impulsive.Yeah, it's fighters aren't the best at saving cash.Oh, you know so yeah, it's You take a look you know when you sit there saving money though is Strickland You would think he'd be the most reckless guy.

I'm very smart very smart with his money Yeah, don't have a bite like most these guys are buying jeans and shirts and glasses on other binaries buying Wranglers and But he saves his money man, he's got a lot of money saved up.Learning how to be frugal is very important, especially if you're an athlete.Any type of athlete.

Especially if you're an athlete like Strickland who still rides a motorcycle.I still ride a motorcycle.You didn't learn anything from Frank Mir when you broke his femur?I'm surprised fighters.Frank Mir breaking his femur is what kept me from getting a motorcycle license.That was the last one.

Two friends crashed, one friend wiped out and fucked up his shoulder.And then Frank Muir got t -boned and I was like I'm out it all comes down.

There's the old saying there's two types of motorcycle riders Ones that have been down and ones that are going down.Yeah, and that's just the truth.

That's the problem It's like I felt like I'm hurting myself so many days a week just doing jiu -jitsu They're like that doing that on top of that.

It's like I don't want to risk no yeah, especially if you haven't been doing it because there's ways to ride and There's you you don't ride like you'll see you can watch people on the road and I go that dude doesn't know how to ride and it's like You can just buy a bike, that's what's scary.

you get a license figure out how to ride it buy a bike and you fucking You know it's like you could go to a car dealership right now and pick up a Corvette zr1 you got a 1 ,000 horsepower car right and like Who knows if you know how to really do says that you're prepared to drive that Your parents are rich so you have a fucking fighter jet on wheels But you know what you're talking about Sean Strickland with how many cars do you need?

You know, I tell fighters on how many cars do you need?You know, dude, I've had Arguments with rampage because rampage got eight million cars.I go dude.How many cars can you put your ass in at one time?Right and it's like you're blowing through money.You can't get back.

You can't get back.You know it's like you try to tell cars depending on what kind of cars you have.Some cars.Oh if you if you're going to do an investment that's fine.muscle cars, shit like that.They're always worth money.

I think if you're a fighter, you need to take a page out of Forrest Griffin's book, right?With the scion that he won for The Ultimate Fighter.He drove that thing into the ground.Door handles were off.He had to roll the window down to open the door from the outside.

He's such a character.

You know, but I mean, that's how you have to live.If you're going to be a professional athlete, a professional fighter, that's how you have to live, especially early in your career.You don't know how long it's going to last.

Yeah.Also, there's something to be said for the comforts.of nice things and luxuries kind of slowing you down a little bit.Not everybody.Doesn't seem to do it to Arun Sarukian.No.

That fucking dude, he breaks the whole rule book.Rich kid, fights like a demon, built like a Greek god.He is such a stud, man.Constantly competing in wrestling, doing everything.

He's wrestling this weekend, here at ROF Wrestling in Arlington.Animal.Animal.

Yeah, dude, when I saw him last night, I said, Just keep doing what you're doing, dude.

Just keep doing what you're doing.I think the best thing that could happen to him is not getting a title fight.That guy's built that.

I mean, he's capitalized on it.bad situation that he put himself in, but it was also the headbutt with Dan Hooker.That was fucking crazy.

Well, because as a promoter, right, you could have cost me all this money if he gets cut.

Yeah, if he gets cut, they pull the fight.Oh my god.Can you imagine?Like, come on, knucklehead.Yeah, stop.But I love watching him fight.

What he's been doing with RAF, what he's been doing with his Nina drama stuff and all that stuff.Hey, keep going.Keep going, man.People are talking about you.Very smart.

And he is the most interesting contender for Elio Taporia.Absolutely.Without a doubt.100%.Other than Justin, which is going to be wild.But I think him, the skills that he has, the wrestling that he has, and the size, he's a lot bigger than Elio.

You know, I asked DC and Dustin both yesterday.On my show.I want to why do you think people were over overlooking Justin?

That's a good question.

I mean when I look at Gates I'm like he's got all the tools and the weapons Iliad to pour he's heavy on the lead leg Justin Gates.She's got a heavy leg kick.He's got a great uppercut He's fighting the shorter fighter and Iliad to Porya.He's a bigger guy.

He's a way bigger.He's not making 145 ever.No, he's a much bigger guy He's a really good wrestler, and he's a nasty striker, and he's also a Kind of a fucking savage like he's not kind of yeah I mean like like a little savage not like pretending like when he fought Michael Johnson UFC debut he just threw himself at Michael Johnson, and he did the same thing with Patti Pimbleth Yeah, the Patti Pimbleth fight.He could have fought that fight a lot cleaner.Yeah, and he just said fuck you I'm just gonna walk you down and just blast you every chance I get and break you up and That's what he did, and he's a fucking scary dude, man Justin's a scary dude when he's on and this is the last dance right so you know that he's gonna be hyper focused for this fight I just can't see why people are overlooking him like they just look at him like oh he doesn't have a chance can you knock down I think they're taking away so good Ilya has done it to everybody

all these guys that are also really good In a row in a row three in a row Max Holloway Alexander Volkanovsky and do Bronx fucking crazy.That's that's Crazy.Crazy.

Three KOs.

Yes.

I don't hold it against him, but I also, is it kind of somewhere, is there an asterisk next to it a little bit?Because Volkanovski coming off the head kick knockout loss.Max Holloway cutting from 55 to 45 after putting all the weight on, then getting knocked out.The only one I would say no is Charles, because he goes up, fights Charles.Charles, you know.Charles, no.

Max Holloway, yes, because he cut the weight, but that was his decision.

That's right.

And no one should have let Volkanovski take that fight.You got head kicked four months ago into a coma.There's no fucking chance you should be taking a fight with the scariest puncher in the division.

Is that a coach's corner, family decision?

It's him.

He's an animal.

He is an animal.He's a fucking animal.He thinks he can do it.

Yeah, but see, that's when you have to have the people maybe in your corner, in your family, who are saying, hey.

I think it's honestly in your family.I think you need someone who loves you.

Someone who is just absolutely, totally honest saying, You can't do this this fast.I'm not saying you can't do it but you have to do these things to be able to make it to where you have a Ability to take a shot like you used to because it's diminished at this moment Not just that you have to take into consideration that he gets knocked out and then he goes right into camp Okay, so you're not gonna rest your brain.

No, you're just not Even if you're just wrestling you're not resting you can't anytime your body your body temperature rises, right?You're damaging your brain, especially if you haven't let it recover yet, and there's no way you let it recover.

I mean he got shinned Shinned to the dome by one of the biggest guys that ever fought at 55 is huge Six foot tall and he fucking takes the fight on 11 days noticewith no camp and he's eating barbecue and fucking drinking Foster's Fucking all -time great.Oh, no doubt about it He's an all -time great and you know when you go back and look at his fights with max like he was the first guy To figure out max.Yeah, you know and then you look at what he did cleaning out the division I mean my god.I would have loved to seen a fair shake I would have loved to see I would have never advised him to take that fight with Islam on 11 days notice I mean, I don't care what the fucking UFC says no go John Jones What is John Jones do John Jones had an opportunity to fight Chael Sonnen with very little notice?That's right.

He was already in shape Dan Henderson.Nope won't fight him.Yeah, not gonna fight him I have a full camp preparing just for him.I'm not giving anybody any fucking chances period see ya bye I'm the champ and if Volkanovski had that mindset He would have never fought in Islam unless he went through a full camp again because he almost beat him the first time It was a really close fight the first time the second fight.He comes in he's a little soft He's not in shape his mind's not right.

It was also the difference in the weight cut for Islam Yes, Islam was on 30 30 some hours compared to rights.

He's on Australia time He's like fully rehydrated much more time to recover much more dangerous It was more of the expectation that Volk thought I'll just do the same thing I did in the first fight of course because he's an animal Yeah, that's where you need your brother.You need someone to go dude.I love you.You're an animal You're one of the greatest of all time, but the brain is the brain like there's just certain You don't want to fight with a broken hand right okay?Just because you can't see it doesn't mean your hands not your head's not damaged.

That's damage That's the difference though is exactly what you're saying is The brain doesn't hurt right you know it doesn't have nerve endings and so you can't sit there and say oh man I've got this problem until you end up concussed right until that now all sudden the headaches are occurring and the bright lights are onto bother you and all these things start to add up and you're starting to get mad about things that you can't understand.Why am I getting mad right now?Those are the telltale signs of, hey, I need to step away for a while.

Do you remember when Travis Luder thought Oh, yeah, yeah, who was it Eastman Eastman Marvin Marvin Eastman, and he caught Marvin Eastman with a punch.It was just a regular punch just nothing And we found out later.Oh he got KO'd really bad.I think by Tito yep in training Yep, and it's like that's that's it Ben T. Killed twice Twice in training Oh God, you know guys are crazy.

You look and you go and that's why he went out the way he did 100 % because it was a weird off of something.

He never would have been hurt by it was weird.It was weird.It was like a straight left the condom at the end of the end of the punch hardly moved.It hardly moved.Yeah, just fell back.Yeah, because his brain was damaged.

You got to give your time before a full time to recover 45 days up to up to six months eating more fats more avocados things like that to help your brain recover when Juan Manuel Marquez knocked out Pacquiao Freddie Roach.

You're not doing anything for a year so one more and he got his chin back I took that year off and he came back actually recovered But Freddy being a longtime boxer himself and being around the game and seeing guys getting knocked out and seeing guys Jumping back in too quick.He knew Freddy being one himself.

Yes look at Fred You know Fred people don't realize Freddy was actually a good good boxer He was he had a you know good amateur record.He was doing well the pros Do you remember who his his trainer was his trainer was Eddie fudge?Eddie fudge who was the second trainer for Joe Frazier after Yance Durham died and Joe Frazier He was there for the thrill in Manila with Ali and stuff like that Yeah, and Eddie fudge told Freddie Roach son.You're taking too many shots.You're getting hit with too many good ones.You're not playing

the same way.You're done.You gotta stop.And Freddie Roach got rid of Eddie Fudge and continued to fight as a professional and just kept getting knocked out.And that was the end of his career.And then he became the trainer.

And you can take a look at a lot of the issues that he has, but as much as you're looking at, you're looking, That with Freddy take a look at his brother pepper who took a lot less is worse than Freddy I mean pepper is gone now, but I mean Headshots and trauma to the brain especially when you don't give it the opportunity to rest and heal It will absolutely take and burn your career.

No, no doubt and There's no way to really tell There's so many guys that are damaged and we don't know, because you meet them backstage like, hey, how you doing?Everything's great.But meanwhile, it's not great.These guys are struggling.They don't remember what you just said.Exactly.

And then they're talking to people that repeat things over and over and over again.

And you can watch, you know, I hate to say it.There was a fighter, fought in the UFC, fought in bare knuckle boxing now.He's now training guys.And it's Joey Beltran.Okay, no, I know I had a decent crib heavy puncher took a lot of damage And I'm just watching Joey Beltran walk off of stairs and having to go one step at a time with each foot And you look and you go damn, you know, and you and you know, hey, he's been altered, you know He's a great guy, but it's like that's what all of this does in the end.No doubt You've got to understand that you know, you I always I try to tell fighters look you're a Ferrari, you know You want to be a Lamborghini, you're a Lamborghini.

But first off, it's like, you know, the whole John Jones thing is, you know, be careful of what you put in its gas tank.OK, same with, you know, other guys.You know, I don't mean to pick out on John, but, you know, he's told the story.of what he was doing and so he Be careful what you put in the gas tank, and realize you can only crash that car so many times before it's a piece of junk.And it's hard to get that through, that this is not going to last forever, and I'm not going to be the same forever.They just don't see it until all of a sudden it's there.

Well, that's why it's a real bummer when you see coaches that you know love the fighters, and they haven't stepped in.They haven't done anything.And they're keeping training these guys.Because they'll lose them.Yeah.Exactly.

And that's what's horrible.It's horrible that you you know, you have there has to be the kind of relationship where you Get to a fork in the road, and you go, this is what this is.Like, it doesn't mean that your life is over.No, it's the start of your next life.It's just you can't identify yourself.Well, Josh, you can speak to this, because you fought at the highest level for a long fucking time, and you stepped away healthy.

Yeah, and I had this conversation with Dustin yesterday.I just said, hey, like, I feel like you could still do it.You're right there.Like, you're one fight away from fighting for another title again.And he's like, it was just the time.And I can understand that.

I completely respect that yeah, I said because he's having time now with his two kids his wife.He's enjoying his moment He just got done lifting.He was looking swole, and I was like It was I was like it's good to see you came on the show's all sweaty a little bit like you know He's enjoying this next chapter of his life.

I like when guys go out like could be oh They offer him a bunch of money's like no yep Good did it done bye, and I hate when people try to rag him on it.

It drives me crazy They sit there and go oh yeah, but you know you know You could have done this you could have done that hey he gives zero fuck doesn't matter.He doesn't care He doesn't look look at what he did.

That's all you need to know look he dominated people that nobody dominated Oh, yeah, and he did it a crazy way like I'm speaking of Barboza I remember that fight where Barbosa had that thousand -yard stare so do I in the first round?It's like he was like oh my god.This is notgoing to go my way.

I actually looked something up the other day.Khabib is the only guy who's never bled inside the UFC octagon.He's the only fighter to never bleed inside the octagon.What have I told you?That's wild.He's the most dominant fighter inside.

John Jones is the greatest as far as you're going to say.Who's done it better as far as all the championship fights and all of that stuff?Jon Jones is the guy.The most dominant fighter I ever stepped into that cage with was Khabib.

Look at this.Khabib never visibly bled, was severely bruised, or was knocked down during his professional MMA career.

Who's the only person you ever saw hurt him?

Conor.Nope.No.No.Well, Gleason Tebow hurt me a little bit.

You can say Michael Johnson.

Michael Johnson.Michael Johnson had one where he gave a little bit of a rock.That's right.I was doing that fight.That's right, Michael Johnson.And I was like, oh.

Yeah, that's right.Michael Johnson caught him.He sucked it right back up.

I said, I go, Habiba, I go, were you hurt?He's like, brother, come on.You know I wasn't hurt.

You talked about you know Michael Johnson against Gaethje You know and after that fight cuz I did that fight, and I told Justin hey congratulations That was a great performance.You got hurt you went through because I never got hurt.

I go go watch the video Those guys went to war oh, man the crazy thing was when Khabib was on top of Michael Johnson And he was saying come on brother.

You know I need deserved title shot.

I don't want to do this And then when he almost, when he got him in the Kimura, I was like, please tap.You're saying please tap?

What do you think I'm saying?I think the only reason why it didn't break is Khabib was probably being kind.Like he's talking to him.The whole time.The entire fight.You have to give up.

He's saying you have to give up.

Come on, bro.You know I need to fight for title.

It's my destiny.I have to fight for the title.Yeah, I need to fight for the title.title.You know this.I deserve this.

You agree?

He's like, you agree?He's saying this while he's beating his ass.Michael Johnson's like, huh?I mean, he was just a motherfucker, dude.Oh, yeah.So everybody agrees.

Everybody agrees.

Yeah.

As he's beating his ass, he's saying, see, everybody agrees.

Well, how about when he was on top of Conor and he'd say, let's talk now?Yeah.

He's punching me in the face.Come on, let's talk.Let's talk now.

Let's talk now.I loved it.He was a monster, dude.Khabib was, he was just so relentless in that style.

But it's everything, it's everything to do with his lifestyle.And this is where, this is where you get into, you know, You've seen it too many times, champions.And there's been great champions, but when you become the champion, everything in your life changes.the things that come your way change.You get offered things that you didn't get offered in the same way before.You get all these opportunities, and all of a sudden, instead of going to the gym, you're spending the day on a plane going to a location to do something.

Sometimes it's for the promotion that you're working for.Sometimes it's for the UFC or whatever promotion there is, because they're asking you.So you're missing that day of training.And then you're getting back on the plane, you're coming back the next day, and that's another day that you're missing.He never missed training.He never changed his lifestyle.

He did everything the same.And that's why he got the results he got.

Well, for a super successful guy, he's still so humble.He's so normal to talk to.He's so balanced.And it's that discipline that he has.The discipline and his religious beliefs.He's just so rock solid.

The thing about him is that he tries to make sure he puts the guys that had helped get him there, tries to help them get elevated as well.It kind of what I'm trying to say is that how you've done with your guys with your group of comics and friends you guys all lift each other up he does the same thing with the group of friends that he has so not just like myself and DC and you know Islam and those guys I mean like when they go to travelfor events he put you know he takes care of the house he makes sure that it's all organized make sure that there's enough room for everyone there's food you know obviously all the guys other guys chip in but it's like he's the ones kind of organizing everything he's the leader of that team and I'd love seeing somebody that puts that much effort into guys that helped get him there as well.

Yeah, no, he's a real leader.He's a real leader.And now that he's coaching, I mean, you imagine you're a kid and you need motivation.You're literally being coached by one of the greatest combat sports athletes ever walk on God's earth.And one that did it right the entire time.The entire time.

And it is all about discipline and hard work.Like you couldn't pick a better camp, especially if you're a grappling based guy.You know, like send them to Dagestan two, three years ago.That's the greatest meme of all time.

I think what separates, you know, Islam and Habib and that whole group is that there's never a moment where they're not training.Like I was in Chicago at one of the events for Bellator and we were there and I was headed down to the bar after the event.They were headed to the gym.Passing me in the elevators to come up and talk to me.So I was up there for an hour Just chat with them while they're riding bikes, you know lifting weights getting their workout in and everyone else is down at the bar drinking Wow, you know and so it's it doesn't matter.They don't even look at it.

They don't think about it They just go right to the gym.They get their sweat on they're up there for two hours It's not not it's not like this intense, but it's not a 25.Yeah, right Yeah, and they never letting themselves get out shit.No, that's it And then you see him in the morning, right when they were living it when they were training out at 8k in the mornings You'd see them at the at the track in the mornings.They would just jog but they Then there was little stations where you do sit -ups and push -ups.They would do those, and they would do it for two, three miles, and they'd come to the gym at noon, and they'd do their workout, sometimes hard, sometimes not, but they were always training, always working, and that's what separates them.

They're not out at the club until two, three in the morning, then trying to recover the next day.They're not drinking.They're not smoking.

They're not doing - The no drinking is huge.Huge.Huge.If there's one thing that fucks fighters up more than anything, it's partying.Oh, yeah.Drinking especially.

I guess Coke.I don't have a lot of experience with guys that I knew that were doing coke but I have a lot of experience with guys that were drinkers and You would see them in the morning on like they would go out Saturday night Sunday They'd be fucked up.They show up Monday to train and they just looked like shit Yeah, because they had been partying too hard just two days ago and you don't think that that's gonna make a big difference But if you're getting drunk on Saturday night, that's days before you're back to baseline days You know, and you can get away with it when you're 23, a little bit, kind of, but are you?Because you're probably not as good as you would have been, and then maybe you're gonna get hit with some shots that you wouldn't have get hit with, or you're gonna get tapped when you wouldn't have got tapped.

And you take a look, that's the big difference, and you go back and look at Habib's career.Go back and look at his first fight in the UFC, and look at how bad, and I'm serious, how bad his stand -up was.Oh yeah, it wasn't the best.Oh no, it was probably the worst.I don't think it was the worst.

He did a lot of crazy shit.But take a look at it when he was at the end.

It was tight.He always was improving.Oh, he was dangerous.

Remember he dropped Conor.He cracked Conor, you know, with a big right hand, which was like, everybody was like, holy shit.That was a shocker.

I had several conversations with Shob about that, because I went down and did his show a couple of times in LA before that fight.And I said, look, stylistically, Conor's the better striker.I go, but the intimidation of the takedown and the threat of the takedown for Conor is going to make him hesitant.I said, don't be surprised if Habib ends up landing some good hard shots on the feet.That's a giant factor.

The fear of the takedown.It's about about Kevin Randleman when he fought Conor.When he knocked him out, that was what it buzzed.The fear of the takedown.The thinking.The thought process of, I can't let him.

You get it.If Kevin Randleman and Krokop fought a straight kickboxing match with no takedowns, Jesus Christ.

It's a walk.

You don't want to watch it.It'd be terrible to watch.But that threat of the takedown is this factor that keeps you from being comfortable, it keeps youfrom finding your flow state.

That little hesitation opens up so many opportunities to catch him.

Yeah, it's big.It's so big, you see it in fights all the time.When a guy just has this extra element of the takedown.So that's why it's so impressive when you see a guy like Pereira, where there's no threat of the takedown.There's no threat.It's not happening, he's not even thinking about taking down, he's just gonna fuck you up.

And now it's up to you to deal with that.

We just don't have the level of wrestlers these days in the 205 in the heavyweight division to compete with them on there in the wrestling That's where that's where you have someone like Steveson coming in Gable come heavyweight division.

Yeah, okay, Curtis blades can wrestle now Josh Hokett look at Josh Hoke.It's the real deal.You know he was a He's a he's a good athlete.

Yeah.

He's a good all -around athlete.

He's a character you go with the stick But also he put up he put up absolutely put up in that Curtis blade hello that fight as a heavyweight fight I Was awesome awesome to watch, you know terrible for you don't know.Oh, yes, and that's the crazy thing that he's gonna fight Derek Lewis Who's the biggest knockout puncher in the history of the fucking heavyweight division more knockouts than anyone?He's gonna fight him.What how many weeks seven weeks?Yeah, seven weeks seven weeks After a war hello, usually Curtis Blades fists.Yeah They're gigantic.

He's a giant man.

He hit him a bunch of big shots and what look I gotta give it up for Curtis plays.

What a fight he put on it cuz he took some damage delivered some big shots Mad mad hard crazy crazy hard because he just did not want to lose that shit talking, dude Okay, it will drop the act we talked to him in real life Yeah, and in in the ring, you know in the cage after the fight I said, dude, that was a fucking amazing, but he goes he goes I talk so much shitabout so many people he's just trying to get people upset and talk about He's just pushing buttons listen that that's the the Conor McGregor game plan like you mean Conor did it the best jail did it?The chair was the first really to do it in MMA jail didn't then Connor took it to another level They kind of stayed in their lane like this is my weight class He just wants controversy, he's basically like one of them kick streamers As much as possible he's look what he's done though, man He can put himself you can fight in the UFC for a division that the UFC has Man, they need these people.I think Gable's the man.That's what I think.

That's your nightmare.

That's Mike Tyson when he was 20, you know what I mean?He's still great.

He's got some work to do, but I'm glad they signed him early, you know, try to develop him hopefully a little bit.Give him two or three more fights inside the UFC.

The problem is the heavyweight division in the UFC is so shallow that you could see Gable fighting for a title within a year or two.Three fights three fight.

Yeah could be yeah could be he's gonna have to learn a lot though in that process hundred percent Yeah, you got John in his corner.

Yeah, you got it.You got to give him credit though He has shown that you know first off.He's super fast.Oh, okay, but he's also got a chin He got kicked up into the head neck area.He ate that sucker mm -hmm you know and Continued on and you go well.He's a tank don't let that happen again, right, but don't have a man you shown Hey, he didn't let it affect him.

He didn't back off.Well.

He's an Olympic gold.Oh, yes.I mean he's a winner He is a small heavyweight though like that hybrid style, but that's the best it is it is 250 He's just not tall, but he's strongas fuck.His legs and ass are huge.How about when he had that dirty boxing fight and then leapt over the top rope?

Literally.That's the whole thing.Like it was a box of tissues on the ground.

Dude, the best one was when he had the first one and he hits the guy and the guy's out going down and he's taking him down.

He shoots a double while the guy's out cold.That's how fast he is.Yeah, he's the most impressive of the prospects.But you know hopefully this is gonna excite that like when you have a like every division goes through these like valleys and when you have a lull Hopefully, that's when people come in and they fill that void and with Francis out of the UFC and looks like forever Which is a shame.It's a shame.I don't I tried to negotiate that I tried to bring the two of them back together I tried to have a sit -down Dana was not interested.

He doesn't want to have anything to do with him It's about interpersonal relationships interpersonal exchanges that they had that I'm not oh, I don't know I don't know what happened exactly.I just know what Dana told me, and I believe him.So it's like, you have the best heavyweight in the world, and he can't fight in the UFC.Which is, to me, crazy.I mean, let's do Molly together.Let's work this out.

Let's fucking work this out, bro.

We could do anything, right?I mean, this is why I'm not a promoter, and it's why I'm not a businessman, but if I was, I would go to dinner with him.I'd be like, come on, man. I'm sure we could let our differences be aside.He's not a bad guy.It's just, you know, sometimes people get upset, or they say things, or like, smooth it out.Yeah.

My experiences with Francis have always been super positive.I enjoy talking to him.

Francis has been nothing but kind to me and everybody I've introduced him to and stuff.He's always great.And he's the best.

He's the scariest fucking heavyweight on planet Earth.

Dude, he's huge.He's huge.People, I was at an awards thing and Misha Tate and Rashad Evans and I and my wife were taking a picture and all of a sudden their shadow comes over the top of us and it's like,with his arms out like, hey, right?

And it's like, what the hell?When you get a natural 265, a guy's, and shredded, cutting weight to make 265, that's crazy.Yeah, I mean he's he there's many fights where he was like 270 275.Oh, yeah He would drop a little bit of weight to make the 260, which is also stupid Why is there a 265 pound weight limit for the heavyweight division?Yeah nuts isn't that nuts?

Yeah, I know why I was you eat those really big guys Lorenzo the Lorenzo was you know looking at it saying here.I don't want fat guys really That's what you know because you had But it was at the time in MMA you had no weight It was lovable to a point love Roy.Yeah, no weight limits and that whole thing was he looked and said I don't want you know a bunch of fat guys We got to cut it off at a certain point because I'm not gonna have super heavyweight You know anything she's never they never did well not having super heavyweight is fine, but merge it Yeah, it's it's ridiculous.

If a guy is like value -add member value.Oh, yeah, yeah, the Russian guy was seven feet tall field David David hey beat him remember that one.

Oh, that's right David.Hey, David.He's a small heavyweight.

Oh, yeah Holyfield beat him too, right?Didn't Holyfield beat him.

I don't think Holyfield didn't fight value.I think they did they I think that went up.

Hmm I think they did I might be wrong.

I don't think I'm not sure Vander fought him David.Hey beat him I know that might be wrong, but there they are.

Yeah.

Oh, that's him.

Yeah 2008 Crazy and the van or Holyville was a cruiserweight.Remember when he fought Dwight Muhammad Cowie who was five seven?Oh, yeah Cowie was a five seven cruiserweight He was like he was a nightmare to deal with he was he was a mini Joe Frazier, bro He's a tank that guy was and he would pull his trunks way up to here.Oh, yeah

disputed that's what it is.

Yeah majority decision.

That's where you fucking referee in your corner That's when the judge you look at that look at the age of Evander Yes, 46, which is crazy.It's crazy.

It is crazy.It's crazy when you see these guys that were, you know, like, Oh, wow, you all Romero can do it.Okay.

Listen, he's a, he is a distinct earth.Okay.This is where this whole UFO thing comes in.

Here is the proof of the, yes, there are aliens.

And you're all Romero is one of them.

Yeah.

He is built differently than every other human being on the face.

I told this story before.I don't know if you guys heard it, but this, this actually happened when the one of his fights, he'd broken into his orbital.The UFC brings him to a doctor.The doctor says to him, to the UFC, where did you get this guy?And they go, he's pretty awesome, right?He goes, no, no, no.

I've never seen a human built like this before.They said his tendons in his eye were three times larger than a normal person's.They said the orbital bone is already healing.Like, this is crazy.I need no medicine.So then there's some questions.

It's like, you know, listen, the Cubans are very connected to the Russians.We're very connected to science.It's wild.I mean, you got to think, if you had a kid and you knew this kid was going to be wrestling, bang, bang, bang, when he's coming up, you could make a totally different kind of kid.I read a story about this guy and his son.started showing like Androgenic effects very early on they were freaked out like the kid was good dick was growing.

He's getting hair They're like what the fuck is happening to this baby, and they realized that the dad had testosterone cream The dad was taking testosterone cream.He's holding the baby And you know bare chest to bare chest transferring.

It's he's literally juicing up his fucking head Have you seen Andre smile?Yes, holy Jesus Christ Jamie that guy huh Andre smile is a he's a he's kind of a hybrid.He's a bodybuilder powerlifter Strongman arm wrestler.Yeah, he's 350 pounds I mean, 20, 27 inch arms, something like that.

His hands are so big, they look like catcher's mitts.Look at his hands.Have you heard, you know what he's taking?Look at that, 2016 to 2026.Look at the difference.2016, look at his hands.

Yeah, look at his hands' difference.His hands are huge because he takes - Growth hormone?Oh, yeah.Everything.He takes a thousand units of growth hormone a day.That's 10 vials.

What?

He does?

Yes.He's going to die.Whoa.You cannot take that much for - Is that real?That's insane.Yeah.

A thousand.Oh my God.Look at the size of him.

That's so crazy.That dude does one arm pull ups at 350 pounds.That's nuts.I mean he is absolutely.

And he's not, and he has a regular job.

He's 27 years old.Look at him, he looks like he's 50.

Yeah, he looks at least 50.And doesn't he have a factory job?I think he has a regular job.So it's not even, he's not even doing it for money.Oh no.But it's crazy when you see him when he was young.

Like, look at that.That's him.That's the same guy.I mean, that, that looks like a regular athlete.He is a regular athlete there.And then all of a sudden he becomes this fucking immense freak.

He is.

He must have done a lot of testosterone to lose all his hair like that.Yeah.He did everything.Everything.He's done everything there is.Whatever you got, give me it.

There's a lot of those dudes.Do you know about that guy Tom Haviland?Oh, yeah, in Australia.Dude, that...Six foot eight, 400 pounds.

That dude, you take a look at him, he's unique in the fact he doesn't do the normal workouts and stuff.He does basic farm stuff.He picks up things, farmer walks with stuff that's ridiculously heavy.He does a lot of...Picks up axles and weird shit.Dude, but he's six foot eight.

Yeah, let's say 330 pounds more not Trying to get to four.

He was trying to get to four.So he's in the 390s He was like this is building up to 400 pounds, but shredded.Yeah, and and preposterously strong.Yeah Like farmers, he's always working out when you can't see him.Yeah, you see his back and he's always wearing clothes, which is very odd.But there's photos of him without the clothes.

And it's almost like he's building a masterpiece and he wants to reveal it once he's done painting.See if you can find some pictures of what he actually looks like, because occasionally they show his body.

He always takes all the stuff from behind.That's him.

Fucking bro.Look at that.

That's fucking insane.

Oh, he looks young.I don't think he's that old.He looks young.I think he's like maybe 30 or something.It's nuts.Yeah, he is.

Gigantic, dude.6 '8", 385.

What the fuck?

What the fuck?Now, imagine if he wanted to fight MMA, and they're like, well, sir, you've got to lose 110 pounds.Fuck off.That's crazy.Fuck you.

Okay, hold on.Hold on.Think about this.Look at that.You're the heavyweight that they want to put him against.Yes, there's a weight class.

Listen, I think this should be a 225 and then it should be chaos.225 and then chaos.I agree.And let the freaks in.Let them, them Iceland dudes in.

I mean, some of the most entertaining fights in Pride, right, were the freak fights.Yeah.

Here's the thing though.That guy's going to melt your piss cup.Oh yeah.

100%.So just like in Pride.It's just like in Pride.

If you put that fucking guy in one of them tester machines, it would ding like one of those cartoon things where you hit a mallet and it hits the bell.

There would be fireworks going off, screamers coming down.

There's not a chance that guy's on the natch.Come on.But that's just like Pride, you know?Yeah, exactly like Pride.Yeah, Pride, everybody was juicy.They just had the enhanced games.

I know but Only one world record was broken in the yard.Yeah.Yeah, really that was a 50 meter swim Wearing a suit that's illegal.

Yeah, because it makes you slippery.

Yeah, it was a guy that had already beaten the world record Like I don't know a couple years back.

So he's beaten him since it's no one really it wasn't that successful And I talked to a friend of mine about it and he was like, I think first of all, they're not like Monitoring everything everyone's doing they're not optimizing them if you really want to juice these people up you can't let them do it themselves Yeah, you've got to have like a whole program where you put them on this stuff, but also like what are we doing?

Did you hear what you hear the reason why they're doing why they the whole thing is kind of like Red Bull?You know how Red Bull does all the crazy.You know different stunt stuff and everything their whole thing is they are a they're a Company that gives out norm you know puts out these Monthly things of TRT and all these different.You know things with testosterone stuff, so they did this whole thing as an advertisement basically for people to see that being enhanced is better and that you'll come and now sign up for its I think it's $399 a month for your whole thing to be able to get 399 enhanced program there you go it's the enhanced program okay so when thank you jamie when we had them on jamie did they bring this up i don't think they did maybe they adopted this later because we had them on like about a year before they were going to do the games and they were telling i was like let's go juice them up juice juice everybody up yeah what about a enhanced fight games The whole question is this when you truly look at it because I look and say look as long as you oh if you open it up to everyone then it's someone's choice you're gonna hear all that thing well you know you can do it if you want you don't have to do it but it's different when you're lifting a weightor you're swimming in a pool, or doing those things, or you're beating on another human being.There's a difference.

You're creating damage in the sport of fighting.Do you want to enhance someone in being able to do that?

You're also enhancing your ability to take damage.You could take that into consideration.You're gonna get hit with less shots, because you're gonna have more endurance, because you're gonna be on EPO.You're gonna have...That's always good for you, too.Super good.

The strokes that you get on EPO are the best.But I mean, like, I gotta think there's a way to do all those things if you're monitoring your blood work and you're being very careful, where you don't go crazy like the Russian cat.

You know people...That's human nature.Yep.You're right.One step.

Take another.Yep.Yeah.Definitely.Yeah.And if that guy has skills.

Imagine that guy.Oh my God.Imagine if you got fade or you bro.You want to keep fighting.I know you're 49, but listen.

That's only biological.I can make you 32 again.

We get you in a hyperbaric chamber every day for two hours, and this is what we're going to do.Testosterone in the morning, testosterone at lunch, testosterone at night.

And a little growth after.

Oh, growth is all day long.You're taking growth from the moment you wake up.We're going to get you up to about 290 shredded.We're going to peptide you.

I think part of the attraction to Fedor though is his belly.100%.You lose that and I'm like, ah, it's not Fedor.

Imagine Lorenzo saying, I don't want fat guys to fight and you see Fedor.

He did everything he could to get Fedor.

Yeah.Well, they did.They really did.I remember those days.It was kind of crazy.He was negotiating with some dangerous characters and Dana was like, we got to up our security.

This is getting heavy with these guys.They wanted a piece of the promotion.

That was the whole, everything everyone talks about.that stuff looking It wasn't it wasn't fade or you know right if it were would have fought for anyone And it wasn't the price of what you know he wanted for money.It was m1 was associated Vadim Finkelstein was Fedor's manager, he had M1 and he wanted a co -promotion with the UFC.And the UFC said, no.We can't do that.That's the one thing we can't do.

And that was the end all right there.

Yeah.Which is unfortunate, right?

Oh, totally.

Because we missed out on the greatest matchup of all time between Prime Kane and Prime Fedor.Prime Cain and Prime Fedor would have been fucking nuts.Yeah nuts.

I mean absolutely nuts Nobody had a gas tank like tank Cain nobody I just talked to him yesterday Cain and I was just talking about I said if there's one fight you come back for and he's like ah You know, I'm really like he's not he's just he's completely checked out of the fight thing But I was like, you know, he's doing a great job of training guys to me.

He's back doing he's not he's not no He was just I was just talking about the fights.

No, he's he's just like no I'm kind of like just disconnected like it's he's just trying to get his life back.Well, I Understandable, you know, that's the one fight I said if there was one fight I could pick for you It'd be fade or it'd be that'd be the one fight.I want to see out of him.

We missed that It's funny because everyone talks I agree with you completely Everyone talks about you know, the fight that they would have put together would have been Brock against Fedor Yeah, and I look and I go, yeah, it's probably not that good of a fight.

Yeah, it's like Brock would had such a hard time Yeah, standing up with that guy.Yeah, they don't well The good example, like the Brock fight to me that was like kind of the craziest fight was Alistair.

Oh, my juice.Uber.Uber.Yeah.The most juicy.Yeah, that was a juice.

That was horsemeat.

That was everything.That was horsemeat.He definitely ate some horsemeat.Oh, yeah.There was a lot about it.He was also eating pills.

Oh, thank God.There's a lot going on.But he was a monster.He was.world class kickboxer.You see him now?

Yeah.

He's back to his pride days Supermodel days good for health yeah, right by the way that guy's been KO'd a ton of times seems fine Like he did the commentary during the oosik fight the Rico fight, and it was like guy is fucking talking great He's like smooth and articulate It's not and not everyone gets affected the same way right and it is you know there is you there's little factors And you can see the difference there are guys.You know that are been boxers with 70 professional fights They do they talk fine everything's good.There's also a gene.

Oh, yeah, it's called a poe4 And if you have that like what is it?How does it work if you have it you're protected or if you have it you have the problem So there's one there's one gene expression that makes you more likely to get CT.Yeah for whatever reason yeah, what is it it was it put it put that into perplexity and Let's see what it says.

There's a gene that you have in your body that...

Yeah, some people have it and some people don't.And if you have whatever it is where there's a gene expression, I'm a moron.I'm not the guy to talk about this.But Dr. Rhonda Patrick talked about this.And she was saying essentially that if you have this, here it is, APOE4 appears to increase the risk of severity of chronic traumatic encephalopathy in people with significant repetitive head impacts, but is a modifier of risk, not a cause by itself.Meaning, obviously, if you have it and you're not taking headshots, you're okay.

It doesn't do anything.Right.

But if you have it, so scroll back up again, please.A large postmortem study of 364 people with RH1 -294 with CTE 70 without carrying APOE -4 was associated with more advanced CTE stage and higher tau protein burden in the frontal lobe, but mainly in those older than 65.But that's just because they haven't been testing all the MMA fighters.Yeah, we're all the boxers You know because like if you really you just tested regular folks or football players Probably it's like football players is probably in the country the most people that have had trauma absolutely because you think about high school kids Even junior high kids before that yeah, I mean they did a study of I forget how many different people but they found that Everyone it was like nine out of ten had it in every group whether it was high school kids college kids some level of CTE which is nuts.Not just NFL, not just college, high school kids.

Everything that we've learned and we know today, comparatively, from here I'm going to Florida for the Association of Ringside Physicians.They have their annual conference.And they put on all these different things, and we put together programs for down fighter things and all this stuff.But we know so much more now.Joe, it used to be I would go in and do a presentation for him.And it was one of the first things, when I first did it, I asked him a question.

The real simple question was, let me ask you this.If a guy gets hit with a shot, boom, and he's out, going down, and he hits the ground, and the fighter comes in and hits him with a shot, is it possible for him to hit him with a shot and actually wake him back up?Every one of them back then, no.That's impossible.All it will do is intensify the effects of the first shot, all this stuff.And I took a DVD and I said, let's watch.

What fight did you use as an example?

I had a bunch, you know, and it was a matter of, it was trying to show them, hey, all these things that we think, Just not true.Okay when we have to we have to branch out and start to figure this stuff out a little bit more because it you know in boxing it's different because Boxing establishes time for me to make decisions MMA takes that time away because I have a fighter that isnow instead of walking towards or you know trotting towards a neutral corner or something like that there you're trotting towards that person to do more damage to him and so you're making that quicker decision and you know we've had too many fights where we have someone that you know they're out going down and then hit the ground and they're and you have to actually wait you know I just had you know one in two last week with Jason Jackson is fighting his opponent Jeffrey Creighton and Creighton gets hit and he's going down and I'm going in to stop it and I see he starts sitting up and I go I gotta wait and it's like I don't want to wait don't sit up and he comes back boom hits him goes out I stop it but it's like those are the ones that you look at and you go man to understand the way the human body everyone responds differently in certain situations but We've learned more as far as the human body will do weird things in traumatic situations and it is the ability to hit someone and to take those synapses that are connected and to separate them.There is no difference in being able to hit them and putting them back.That's crazy.They can get snapped the same way.

That'd be crazy.It's nuts.

In the Hermes Franca fight in UFC 47, 46.Jesus Christ, don't go back too far.

Yeah, too far.

We're in the third round, I catch his leg and he throws a little loopy shot and drops me. I have the leg in my hand and I'm just going, I can see my face headed towards the canvas.My eyes are wide open, but I can't put my hands in front of my face.My face bounces off the canvas, it wakes me up, and then I start fishing for legs.Wow.

I can see everything, I can hear everything.Bingo.

I just couldn't put my hands in front of my face.face and my face hits the canvas I wake back up and he starts jumping on me I start trying to fish for legs and trying to get to guard and that's how that goes I hope I didn't damage my face because I'm so good

You violated the stereotype that good -looking guys can't fight Guys when push comes to shove they're gonna fall apart because they're too good -looking.I don't think so.

Not true I've seen too many good -looking guys.Look at Rico.

Yeah Verhoeven's a fucking model.Yeah, beautiful, man That guy came to AK and train with Kane in DC for a couple weeks.That guy's a fucking murderer.Oh, yeah, he's a murderer and like When we were talking about earlier about the fight and him the box his boxing is really good His cardio like you guys are talking about is fantastic But man, he has no fear of being taken down.He has no fear of any of these guys Kane and DC didn't care He didn't he would fight them to the death on defending takedowns.They were like man DC was the As soon as they got, they touched gloves, he would just right to the legs.

You know, he almost fought in the UFC.Yeah.They offered him Derek Lewis.But then the Usyk fight came up and it was like, listen, this is $15 million.Oh yeah.Fifteen million dollars and look what happened.

I mean amazing choice because in most people's eyes He won most of the rounds of that fight go go back and look at some of the fights that one right there Okay, you know it's the most recent look at Francis Ngannou against Tyson Fury Yeah And look at the scoring on that one go back to Conor McGregor versus Mayweather Because no matter what you want to say Conor won the first couple rounds because Mayweather didn't throw any punches you you don't this whole thing about, oh, your general ringmanship, bullshit.You're not throwing punches, you're not winning a fight.Okay, it's a fight, it's not a dance, it's not how pretty you look.And so, you can go back, and I can tell you, I've talked with some of the judges off of the Mayweather and McGregor, and they go, I made a mistake.I gave credit where I shouldn't have given credit.It's like, how?

It's crazy.I think it's easier for the heavier weights, though, to go up to boxing and have a little bit more success than it would be for the smaller guys.Like, Iliad Tepori didn't fight Bud Crockett.That's my point that the level of boxing talent there with bud and it's not it's not even close It's not even close buds one of the greatest absolutely absolutely and but it could be if he just went into boxing yeah, I mean hands are insane, but Crawford could Go to MMA, that dude can wrestle.

So I would love, I mean obviously not gonna happen just because of the money you can make boxing is not the same.

And also he's another guy that's like, I'm done.I don't have to do this anymore.I did all I wanted to do, multiple division weight champion, undefeated, bye.Made a ton of money, see ya.beat Canelo and boxed the ears off him.Exactly.

When he was when he was punching him and then hitting him with big shots like that.So you do to someone when you're playing.

He had Canelo so Absolutely frustrated yeah during that fight, but I remember you watch I was in New York Gleason's gym Terrence Crawford is there and he is boxing all these guys and just playing just Absolutely, you know come on next one boom and touch touch touch He never tried to hurt any of them never tried to throw a big punch.You just look and you go oh How good is this guy?

He is that, you know, he's that guy.One of the best switch hitters to ever do it.Oh yeah.In my opinion, it's like him and Hagler.They're like right there together.It's wild.

Greatest switch hitters.Does he get boxed to you, Southpaw, and then all of a sudden he's Orthodox and you're like, oh no.

The funny part about him is, you know, you see it at MMA, guys will switch when they take a step and throw a punch, they'll switch to a different, you know.He does the same thing, and he does it and then takes a lateral movement that had Canelo like, where the hell is he?And he's going, hi, bap, you know?And you go, oh my god, he's so goddamn good.

He hit Canelo with a straight left, and then Canelo went to counter, and he had it.still out there And he threw it turned it into a left hook.Yeah, and I was like good lord Yeah, it was so pretty you could see Canelo's like here.

I come back bang Yeah, he gets dinged with the left hook like that is crazy speed and power Precision and technique I've said this before I've sparred with Robert goes to Robert the ghost Guerrero and because he lived in Gilroy And we would train together all the time He would use me for the I'd be in fight shape ready for my UFC fight church his son's fight.Yeah Literally I'd show up.I was the first four rounds of a 12 round session He knew a new training partner every four rounds this guy would just piece me up He would just toy with me, and it was embarrassing I'm like I'm in the best shape of my life, but I by round four I was exhausted, and he was barely touching because you're working touch touch So good and he wasn't and he wasn't at Mayweather's level he's fought Mayweather But like he wasn't that level of right slickness, but he made it look like it when I was in there with it It's all in comparison good.

I mean there's guys that look like look at Jack Della Maddalena when he fought Carlos Pratas You like Jack Della Maddalena is one of the scariest strikers in the sport, and then he fights Pratas you like oh, yeah Oh, there is a different levels.

That's it.That's what you try to do and everyone's get has this idea We talk about it all the time, and I go You don't understand the difference this much makes in the difference of how you compare in a fight with somebody.Levels.Oh, my God.

Levels, especially when you get a guy like Pratas that had so many high level Muay Thai fights.That's the big difference.These guys that with only striking, they develop an understanding of positions and technique that's just not available if you're training the other stuff, too.And so then they get to this, like Pereira, they get to this super high level at this one thing, and then they, of course, The other stuff, but that other left you're not gonna catch them You're not gonna catch practice when it comes to Muay Thai that step in fucking tomahawk elbow that he does Holy shit, dude, and he's playing and he smokes itMarlboros in the back.Oh, it's crazy.

He's smoking blunts.What was the guy that fought Delaware that would come out?

Smoking cigarettes, yeah But I mean Mayorga was never at the level of Pratas Pratas like is so fucking slick man Some of the shit that he was doing to JDM like JDM is a fucking killer And he had no success.

He was drowning.

He was drowning and it was it's also like wow What is going on with his limbs?

Why are they so big?It's like crazy.

Like he says he's six foot one the fuck out of here, bro I want to I want to measure your your height and your length because I think There's some bullshit.Yeah, he's just always I think he did this for his reach And the technique is so beautiful It's so beautiful the setups when he when you think he's punching he's kicking the fuck out of your calf And he's like slowly breaking you down slowly breaking and then the knee that fucking knee that comes out like a jab His knee is nuts man.

You go back to his fight with Gary You know and you look at you know Gary was doing great that last round yeah He came he came back on it, and you look and you go if this is five rounds It'd be a real problem.Hello, but it also was how fucking good Absolutely now.That's the whole point that shows how good he is because he has gone against guys that are a real problem as far as stylistically you know his fight against MVP Gary did it you know fought as smart as you could fight, and did a wonderful job in showing, hey, I'm multifaceted.I'm not just this one -style fighter.With Pratas, when he knocked out Leon Edwards, I was like, oh.

I knew he was really elite, but I'm like, Leon's so technical, and he's so slick.And Pratas is not going to try to take that.him down.I'm like, this is gonna be a very interesting fight.But it wasn't.It was Kyle's Prata's show.

He put on a fucking show.

The relaxation, the comfort of being out there.Also, too, Leon understanding, like, I was the champion, I'm not the champion.It's hard to get back there.The mindset has changed a lot.

It's been hard for Leon ever since when he lost that title fight against Muhammad.And you look, and everything that's happened to him since, it's just, you know...

Confidence is everything yeah, well the Sean Brady fight might have been even more Brutal than that cuz Sean just mauled Mauled him when Sean gets on top of people like what he did the Joaquin Buckley was bananas.

Yeah, no it wasn't I Look at that, and this is why Sean Brady won against Craig Jones Okay, now it was an advantage as far as win, but he grappled against the real Craig Jones and showed that he can stay with him.Poor Joaquin is not at that level.

But you know in that match, Craig was not allowed to use leg locks.You know that, right?

That's crazy.

That's a big, that's like fighting Ernesto Hoost and you only can kick above the waist.

You know what I'm saying?That's just if you're Rick Rufus, that's a smart idea.

Yeah, but you know what I'm saying?It's like Craig Jones, like you gotta give him his full game.You can't have him thinking, oh, I can't do this.He's taking away 50 % of his attacks.

Thanks.

Elite but it was just the ability to hold him down was just shocking I mean, it's like God and then when he was mounting him and just like he was doing drills Yeah, if it wasn't he was just like staying calm and just bang bang bang It was like he was doing conditioning drills on a heavy bag Like he was just sitting on a heavy bag pounding on the bag time.

He was so nuts I said this maybe I caught some flack for it a little bit But I said like look I think the Ian Gary fight and the Protest fight for Islam Both those fights, I'm not saying they're easy fights because they're not, but you put someone like Sean Brady against Islam and that becomes a little bit of a problem, a little bit more difficult.that's match -ups.Styles make match -ups.

Styles make match -ups.When you look at someone's style comparatively, one person is easy for someone while they're very difficult for someone else.If you're going to put someone against Islam as far as It's going to be on the ground with him and give him difficult times.There's not a big enough.

There's not a big enough sample size for me with Michael Morales.I think Michael Morales could be a big threat on the feet.

People are going to say, well, he beat Sean Brady.Stopped him.

Yeah, yeah.But the size, I think, of Michael Morales will give Islam some problems as well.And Michael Morales can fucking wrestle.Yeah, right.He's an Ecuadorian national champ, I think is what he was.And then, you know, he's obviously got power.

But Islam doesn't do the normal wrestling.Nope.His takedowns are different.

Yep.

A lot of foot sweeps, a lot of judo, a lot of difference in the way he does things.

And world championship experience.Yes.And also the years of training with Khabib.Yeah.

Years.What he does so well is he does it off a transition.As soon as you punch, you guys, anywhere inside the clinch, he's already hitting the foot sweep into the inside trip.Can't get it?Okay, I'll hit, I'll drop him down on a single or a double.

You know what I'm excited about at 170 is Amosov.

Oh, dude.

That Ukrainian cat.Oh, yeah.We know.Of course you know.

But he is absolutely the real deal.He is good everywhere.

Everywhere.

And his wrestling and his grappling ability, his submission ability, is at the top of the field.It's right there with Sean Brady.

No, no, it is it is I just there's one guy out there though, and he was just talking about him He's the one guy that he lost to who's not signed by the UFC and that's Jason Jackson He's the one guy to beat him.I'd love to see Jason Jackson in the UFC.

Where's Jason now?

He just fought an MVP won one.I'm like 22 seconds 22 seconds.I had a hard night.

I had 22 seconds and 17.It was very difficult.

I was exhausted But he's the only one he's the only guy in the worldYaroslav Famasov.He's fantastic on the feet, he has a wrestling background, but he chooses to stand.He's got like 30 jobs, a coconut stand, a car washing stand.He's got all kinds of businesses.He works, he works all the time.

He's a working man.He's an awesome man.He's very talented.I love watching that guy fight.I think he him you add him against a practice or against Ian Gary great These guys do get out.It would be a great fight.

It's interesting when there's guys that are at that level that aren't known Yeah, and he's a former champion.

Jason's been there.He was you know, you got to figure he was in the UFC as far as the the ultimate fighter when they did that whole Black Zillions versus ATT.Oh, that's right.He was part of that.

That's right.

You know, and he's just always been on the cusp of being brought back in and then not.You look and you go, he's got all the talent in the world and he's tough as hell.He'll fight.

He is tough.

So who is that camp, that heavyweight that just knocked out Hannon Ferrer in.

Oh, that's Sergei Bilustino.

And he's one of Fedor's boys, right?He is now, yeah.That dude.

Yeah.That dude's scary.That dude is yoked.Yoked and moves fast.He's fast and he's got power.

But then you also got Nemkov.Nemkov's in heavyweight now.

Yeah, Vadim Nemkov is in heavyweight.

He's another guy that's at the top of the heap that's not in the UFC.

Vadim Nemkov is good.Yeah, man, he is extremely athletic.

He's not gonna.He's not a big heavyweight.He's got great lateral movement He's really good with his hands at two beautiful kicks.

Yeah, it was a 205 He chooses to stand, but he'll mix up the wrestling to kind of get you get you guessing But he's another Fedor guy.He's another Fedor guy.Yeah Yeah, yeah, that's another one might be training under could be I mean if you're a Russian guy training on a fade or like good lord Yeah, what a what a crazy opportunity.

Yeah, but you got to live in Stario school.

Do you really that's where they live?That's where they live.Oh boy.Oh, yeah, no parties there

And hate comfort oh my god, you're sleeping on a futon, bitch Yeah, there's a lot of talented guys that will come out of the promotions But I'd love to see Jason Jackson in there mixing it up with those stylistically the matchups are there and the practice and Gary and this is the 170s right on it and putting Yaroslav But when the UFC finally signed him, I said, thank God.

Thank God.Yeah, me too.He deserves to be there, and they need that kind of fight.And look, he's gone in and proven.Dude, his fight against Joel Alvarez, Joel Alvarez is a good fighter.I mean, he made him look absolutely amazing.

Like the guy didn't know hardly anything.

Yeah, I watched it yesterday.

I watched it again I mean you just why the last takedown you know the when he when he airbored them.Oh my god And you look at me, but look at the ease that he did it.Yeah, that's the thing it's like a killer technique Oh my god, and the tightness of his grappling CNN and his his training partner is Johnny Eblen Same guy that's training partner now for Sean Strickland Those guys go after each other daily.

And Johnny will tell you, he's the one that gives him the most fits inside the gym.The one that I spar with the most, the one that just gives me all the fits on the grappling, the wrestling, all those things.Go back to his, his fights too in the past when he fought Ed Ruth, he hip toss, took Ed Ruth down three times national champ out of Penn State.I mean, he was having success against him.It was a very close fight, you know, and he ended up winning the fight, but it was one of those fights where you're like, damn, you walked away going, damn, This guy can wrestle this guy can stand he's got these chasing submissions.He's trying to get finishes I mean he had takedowns against Logan story a six -time state champ out of Minnesota just phenomenal phenomenal wrestler, but he's able to have exchanges with these guys chasing guys

Darcy's knee bars everything extremely talent There's a lot of guys that I would love to see to kind of mix in because every time Because when you look at the history of the sport You got like Strikeforce when it came into the UFC.Those were the best fights.And you start pulling, plucking.I'm not saying that a lot of these guys need to come in right now, but if you can pluck one or two guys for each division, it starts sprucing this whole thing up.Because for a little bit before the Paramount deal happened, you know, because I cover every fight every week, right?And we talk about it on the pod.

It just simply put, everyone's like, man, these fights are trash, they're garbage, this and that.I'm like, guys are being complainers.The cards are great.You guys are just, they're used to that.The next level of like the the Connors and the Alex's stars.Yeah on every card just technique and just fighting ability There's some amazing fights out there but when you fight when you add in someone like when Michael Chandler came in there was a lot of hype around it when Patricio came in and and Aaron Pico and they came in there's a lot of hype around it It kind of puts a little shot in the arm into the weight class and gets everyone amped up the fighters that are there the UFC They're like this guy ain't fucking beating me. I'm not letting this bone from this That's good promotion beat me and then the fighters that are coming in of like, no, I'm here to shoot.

I'm here to prove that I deserve to be here.So it kind of gets the fans amped up, it gets the promotion amped up, and the vision kind of gets a little bit of a spark.So I'd love to see that happen a little bit more.

Absolutely, absolutely, you know, the Pico thing is really interesting.It's like his last fight.He looks so tight against Pitbull He looks so good.Everything looks so smooth like his boxing was flowing his transitions to grappling is flowing fought intelligently Like that's the Pico that we needed to see.

Yeah, but you take a look at his first fight against LeRone and I always say that was That was a Pico that was pressing Yeah, he was pressing that fight and making you know look at taking chances obvious absolutelycoming and you look and you go this is the difference between you know that first fight in the UFC and wanting to do so well and wanting to prove how good you are and stuff and then finally relaxing and just hey let the fight come to me let me show what I can do and taking those moments when you get him that's what he did in his fight against Patricio and look Patricio is good and and Pico Pico could be so good, he just has to relax.

He's still young.Oh yeah, he's had a bunch of pretty bad KOs.

Yes he has.The Borich one.And that's a problem.Yeah.Borich, you had the one against frickin' Corrales.Yeah.

He hurt Corrales and then he got starched.He's had a couple of them.

And both those fights he was winning.And that's the thing, is he was winning, he was beating Borich and then he was beating Corrales.The fights that he lost, I mean, So hyper aggressive yeah, and that's part of the problem, but it's He's got the best left hook to the body since Paul Daley.

Oh, it's so smooth.Oh my god.

It's beautiful I mean his just his left foot period it's like such a whip the technique is so smooth.It's so nice So I gotta ask you about the Joe Schilling fight because there was it was such a weird stoppage where Joe just decided That's it.I'm quitting yep, so his opponent head butts him yeah, and then Mike Beltran is great referee and Takes a point away.He did take a point and then puts him right back in the same position.

Okay, stop That's not exactly what happened in the end.It's not no well.It is what happened.Yes, you're right, but When you have a situation like that you have the head, but Mike Beltran calls a stop calls timeout Right gets them up off of their feet And tries to put Joe out.Joe's pissed.And I understand why Joe's pissed.

He's saying, hey, first off, Joe's 42 years of age.He doesn't come there to be fouled.He's going to fight, OK.And the whole thing is, look where his hands are.They're overhooked right now.The other guy's got his hands on the ground.

right okay?So you know you don't want your hands on the ground, okay?So Joe's in a decent part to at least if he wants to defend himself so when he gets up He's pissed off and everything and then Beltran takes a point from the opponent and ask Joe Do you want to be you want to stand up or do you want back on the ground and Joe?Picked I want to be back on the ground Okay, why do you give your why do you why are you allowed to make a decision?You're allowed to make the decision because you were the one that was found in a normal situation He said I want to be back on the ground said I want to be back on the ground seems crazy I agree with you.It's not what you would expect out of Joe Schilling world -class world champion kickball exactly yeah, and so With that you got it.

You know he's the one felt if the person on top is the one fouling normally We're gonna say they're gonna lose their position, but there are many grapplers And people that have a hard time getting that person down.And so we went back to saying, all right, we're going to give the person who was fouled the opportunity to make a decision.Normally, we're going to put it back on the feet.But if you want to put it back on the ground, I'll put it back there.But you're going to be in the same position as you were when the foul occurred.And that's what Mike Beltran went to do.

And so he starts to put him back.You have Abena is the opponent.And he starts to make a decision.put his hands on Joe's biceps.If you watch when they start to...When they put him back on the ground.

Put him back on the ground.Joe tries to do the overhook.You saw the overhook.And Abeno starts to put his hand on the biceps.He did it on the left bicep, right?Yeah.

And so it's not a matter of, you know, Beltran wasn't there to start the fight yet.He's got to put him in that position.But Joe, once that bicep thing started happening, he got mad.And he said, I'm done.Stop the fight.You can't make somebody fight.

If someone says, I want out of the fight, they're out of the fight.So Beltran was in a position where he says he wants out of the fight.He started, he fouled me, and that's what he's saying.And now he feels like he's not going to be put back in that same position.But he hadn't been, it's not like Beltran started it.He's trying to put him back in the same position when Joe's kind of just losing his steam and getting pissed off.

And so I look at it and say, look, if you're going to be that pissed off, It's a good thing you're not fighting because you don't fight smart and you're gonna end up getting hurt But he's the one that decided that so he has he clearly has two Overhooks at the end of the fight at the at this time of the foul.He's got an overhook both sides Yeah, well sort of the right one's not totally but he's holding the back of the tricep.So you're gonna say, okay So that's where he's at.Look where the opponent's hands are at Opponents hands are under his shoulders.Yeah, okay, so that's where that's how you should start That's where it should be started, but he never gave Beltran the actual ability in time to say no no put your hand here and you can see Beltran starts to You know as a Bayonets starts to try to put his hands on the biceps Beltran's can't understand underneath so it's not To go back to the ground You know, that's the real question and in you know, all I know is at 42 years of age, you know You're looking and saying, you know, Joe Schilling can fight, you know, Joe Schilling.He was a gangster no doubt about it and He at this point is you know Is he looking to become a champion?

No, he's not looking to be a champion.So I'm taking the fight for what reason?For money.And so I think he just looked at it and based upon, well, this is not what I expected.I expected a fair fight.I expected us to fight like professionals.

And this dipshit is now headbutting me.He just got pissed, and he lost his cool with it.And when he wasn't being put back right away into that same position where he thought the guy is now trying to up again, take another advantage,It just sent him off the end, and he said, I'm done.Right, he just got too emotional.He got too emotional with it.

That's a bummer.

Yeah, it is, because Joe's a great guy.

When you fought at the level he's fought at, you expect a certain level of professionalism.And when you have these young guys that come in, it feels a little disrespectful.Like, you knew where you were at.Why are you trying to game the system right now?Also, he just headbutted him, which is crazy.

There's a lot of people saying, well, you know, I don't think it really hit him.It hit him in the jaw, okay, didn't hit him head -to -head, and you're not allowed to use your head as a striking instrument.It's a foul.

And it's pretty clear that he was trying to do that.

Yes.

It wasn't as simple as like positioning his head.

No.Try to get a better - Look, we say you can use your head as a steering instrument, as a third arm.You can press with it.You can do a lot of uncomfortable things with it.You cannot pick it up and bring it back to strike.Right.

And it was clear that that's what he was doing.That's exactly what he did.

I think it's just very awkward for a lot of people that see Joe Schilling in his past fights He's been through it all and then for him to get super frustrated this way.It was a lot of people question I'm like I don't question at all because you expect like I said a certain level of professionals I'm like we know that we're both going out there to fight and knock each other out.Why do you got a cheat?

There's a certain set of rules that we're doing this under right and now you're taking those rules and just tossing the side like you know This doesn't mean something.No, it means something to me. I'm 42 years of age and I don't expect someone to be fouling me just on purpose.No matter what, that was, right now we use intent.That was intentional.He did something, I call it malicious.It's a malicious attack on him.

You're maliciously trying to inflict an injury on someone through a foul.

Yeah, no doubt.Did you watch the MVP fights?Yes.What was your takeaway on that?The overall card as well as the Gina and Ronda fight?

I mean, look, when you're coming in as your first time putting on a promotion, there's no way it's all going to be smooth.It's not possible.know, it's just there's no way you you're also you're not dealing with the same caliber of names other than Gina and Rhonda and Francis, you know the Mike Perry Nate Diaz fight was Most last time Nate fought MMA been a while probably six years Which is kind of crazy, yeah, right and Mike has been fighting bare -knuckle fucking people up for quite a while.He's an animal.He's found his sport though.2022, so four years ago.

Four years ago he beat Tony Ferguson.

But he's found his way.This is stylistically the best thing he could do for his career is fight bare knuckle, fight boxing.This is the best thing for him.

And Mike is like Uniquely talented at bare -knuckle.

Oh like uniquely he's made look.I'll be honest.I used him as my my demonstrator for Andy Foster is the executive officer in California, and he didn't like bare -knuckle.You know I wrote the rules for bare -knuckle long ago Dave Feldman came to me and said hey, you know, I need I need rules written for me. I'm trying to legalize this You know someone someone that I knew hooked him up with me and I said look I'll write your rules and go and I gave him two prices.I said I'm not doing it for free It's too much of a pain in the ass.So here's my two prices My one price is you don't say who wrote them and you just use them and the other price is you say who wrote and it was because I knew I was gonna get in trouble for Doing this and and you know what does John McCarthy think he's doing now.

He's writing rules for did you write the rules for slap fights?

No, I don't like I hate I hate those But so you can't defend yourself Dumbest thing ever Have you seen the other will they just run at each other?Oh, it's even worse.

They're like.Oh my god.Yeah, you think slap fightings were terribleHold my beer.We're just gonna run at each other.That's what it's called.

Run it.Right?Those things are crazy.It's crazy.But the whole thing with, you know, the Mike Perry thing is, you know.Trying to get athletic commissions to start to understand because they're all into this thing Joe It's like you take a look at MMA.

I'm allowed to hit you with a shin to the dome like you talked about You know, I'm allowed to take my knee and hit it to your dome I'm allowed to take my elbow and smash you, you know, even when your head's against the ground I'm allowed to do all these things but My bare fist is the big problem right funny.Oh, it's ridiculous But it's perception and perception is it's a real problem because people believe what they're saying.Oh, it's horrible So, you know Andy Foster was one of the ones that he I don't he didn't like it and I said Andy is you know I tried saying it's go through those whole things with the shin the knee the elbow and he goes Yeah, I know.He says I just don't I don't like I said, you know I need you to look at it this way that I go there are people out there that are made for boxing and Floyd Mayweather, Terrence Crawford, Canelo Alvarez, they're made to be a boxer.They have all this technical skill.You know what?

They're just unbelievable.I said, there's these guys, same thing in MMA.There's the George St. Pierre's.You know, you got the Alexander Volkanovsky's.You got the, all these people, you know, that are, you know, Islam Makachev was the last one I used.I said, they're made for MMA.

I go, Mike Perry was an MMA fighter.I said, He's not made for MMA.He's a tough guy.I go, but Bare Knuckle, he was made for.I said, and this is a guy who can make a living fighting for Bare Knuckle.He can pay his bills.

He can support his family fighting Bare Knuckle.And become a star.I said, and possibly get sponsors and everything that are going to make it so he can live the rest of his life.I said, and you're going to say that you want to take thataway because of a bare fist?I go, it just doesn't make sense to me.

And he looks at me and goes, you're right.

The best thing that could have happened to him was him leaving.Him being released from the UFC.Oh yeah, absolutely.

I don't want to put Andy under spotlight that you know and Andy's done such a great.

He's great Hey, he does things that people don't realize you know there.He's now got a license plate That's out for retired fighters to try to get them a retirement He's got he's got he's got a retirement for boxers already that was set he's been doing things to try to get a retirement fund for Josh Thompson who fought 15 times in California 19.I looked it up.There's a 19.Okay, I'm wrong 19 times in California He can get an actual retirement now It's not gonna be a retirement that he gets paid every month or they'll give him a large sum of money That he can then go he can go to a trade school.He can go to he could buy a house He can do these things as a down payment Andy just put in a thing.

It just got turned down because of a staffer.It was assembly bill 2130 in California that assembly bill was no money out of the taxpayers money zero taxpayer money it's about sponsorship a dumbass like me as a referee has to wear a sponsors thing on my shirt that will then 75 % of it went to retired fighters 25 % of it went to training for Upcoming and in -service officials both judges and referees.

What's the negative?

There is no negative, but you get these people in politics that sit there and go Oh, I don't like this there.You want to know what their negative was in California, but yeah, this is in California California is the best state for decisionsBut their whole thing was as we both live in Texas now think about this we all But their whole thing was well that would allow the sponsor to say that they're basically part of California and they're running they're doing things for California it's like They are doing things for California.They're helping the people that fucking put on fucking entertaining fights and things for people here.It's ridiculous.There was nothing good.

There's some great people in California.There are sure, you know, and there's some great assembly people.I, you know, I just did a whole thing for, you know, Heath Flora, who's an assemblyman there and he's putting up a bill about you being able to, if you protect somebody other than yourself and from somebody that's trying to do something, he's trying to make it to where they can't civilly go after you.Makes sense.You're doing the right thing.But no, there's people fighting against it.

Why?It's just politics.Politics suck.

They suck in California.

My dad always used to say, think about the word politics.Polly meaning many.Ticks, blood -sucking little insect.

It's a bummer.

It's a bummer.It's crazy.

And then did you see that Coker's returning to MMA?I did.

Give me your take.I like Scott a lot, but good luck.You only have $60 million.When I saw it was only $60 million, I was like, that sounds like a lot of money.Until you think about putting on an MMA promotion, and then getting television production, and then paying fighters, and then securing venues, and then having staff full time for like, maybe.You got Tony Hawk with you?

Maybe.Look, I'm rooting for him.I think he did great when he was running Glory as well as when he was running Bellator back in the day.He's a really nice guy.I think it's great for him.if there's more competition.

I think this whole MVP thing and the Netflix thing is great.It stirred a bunch of cash into the organization.Bunch of people got more money than they would've ever gotten anywhere else.Awesome.More options, the better.I hope he can do it.

I think a lot of people do.They do grow promotions right the fighters get more experience on a high level competition.

Yeah to fight fighters from all around the world I'm just excited for more promotions to be involved Yeah, more promotions is good more options is good more money is what we really want the fighters need to get more money It's and it's always gonna be the UFC here You know and ultimately it just comes down like you need more people to build up to get to that level name a good XFL game that you watched You're part of it you you know what you did with the UFC and how you made it exciting for people when you were calling fights So, you know, it's a people now a lot of them.They don't even know the fighters that are on the card But they'll they'll turn it on when it says UFC because they believe in the product.Yeah, right and that's that's That's what you're supposed to do as the company and you know and and for marketing but the one problem I do think that they have right now is They're unable to market people like they did when you know you and I were early in it and stuff You know they now are in a position every week, and so it's tough to market new people You know those the guys who are not well -known if you're not fight nights a lot of times the casuals have no idea There's even a fight night exactly and some of them are fucking We talk about all the time It's like you know the the card itself rates if you're looking at it honestly it rates a 5 on a 5 .5 Paper, and then you'll watch it, and it's a 9 .5.

Yeah, yeah, they're working to get to the top.That's yeah Those are they got something to prove yeah

and for hardcore fans.

It's like giving them constant food When you look at it, it's the hardcore fan that the UFC has but the casual ones the one that puts it over yep And it's hard to get people to understand.You need to get the casuals, the ones that don't watch fights all the time.And that's the one thing I'll give Ronda Rousey.I thought she did an amazing job of talking and putting things out there the way she did.She got people's attention.She did what was her job.

Yeah, and they know 17 million people are watching that's right.That's huge.Yeah, it's all good for everybody.It's good for the sport It's great for the sport.It's like that's what we need.We need more competition more more eyeballs on it and Unfortunately for the cat, you know the people that are casuals.

It has to be a name You know, it has to like this Conor McGregor fight in July is gonna be fucking bananas.It's gonna be bananas I mean people are gonna go crazy for the return of Conor McGregor because he's a giant personality, but don't expect the same Just can't hasn't fought in five years But that's the problem might be more because they're gonna I think it is a little over five It's almost six.I think it might be six at the time of the fight.

It's I think it's a lot I think it's five right now, dude Dude, are we expecting to see a Connor that look like Nate this last fight?Are we expecting to see a better Connor than some of that look like me cuz they did not look good.

I My Perry did and yeah, I look like a fucking murderer.I mean like Mike Perry is a murderer And this is such a sound take a look at that when you're taking an older fighter Which Nate is now and you're 21 you're five fucking years ago, July so it literally will be six years.

Yeah When you're taking a younger fighter and putting them against the old dog It normally doesn't end well for the old dog well the thing is about Max Hollywood

is like Max Holloway is that much younger than Connor.No, he's not.But the thing is, Max has been in constant high level competition the entire time.Won the BMF fight, you know, beat Dustin, like constant high level competition.

That's right.It's a different thing.And I honestly believe him at 155 is the best thing for him.

But he's not 155 in this fight.

This is 170.Honestly, he may even better might be no way cutting at all just no way cut just kind of walk around also Knowing this is such a high -profile fight.

He's gonna Max is always in his head shape, but in particularly in this fight He's gonna be in fucking insane shape and his last fight.

He took almost no damage He got taken down, controlled, back taken, and there was not a lot of damage taken.No, just frustration.Yeah, frustration.

Bro, Charles looked like a motherfucker in that fight, didn't he?

He's so good.Dude.

He's so good.Good everywhere, too.And on the ground, he's just so goddamn dangerous, which just makes you think, how good is Islam?Because Islam just smushed him.

I can tell you, he's really good.

I mean, it's kind of crazy, though, when you think about how strong Charles' grappling is and how Islam just...

Yeah.He called it.He called it.He said, he goes, he goes, Islam is going to submit Charles.And he goes, and he's going to submit it with a head on arm choke.And I think you more either one for sure.

I go shut up.Yeah, okay, just shut up He's not gonna do that.

I said he would do it before three rounds He did it you know obviously very quick, but it was his grappling is just otherworldly just like he secures that Darce by grabbing the forearm I've seen a lot of guys try that now a lot of guys are going to that now cuz you don't have to get as deep you just go through and it's right at the top of the Cover cover the chest with your cover the head with your chest and just suck it in you see people doing thing all you know we always talk about you know Back a long time ago figure for in the body.

We go don't do that.They step the foot inside.It's gonna cranks you It's bad.How about that?He's had the girl do it guillotine that ageMcKee does.

Oh The McKee a team.

Yeah That's the whole thing look, okay, look at my style when he did that I was like wait, yeah his body style He's so long long to reach especially 145.

He's huge for 145.Yeah, he's a big boy.But the grant Grant Dawson just did the genie choke Okay How many times have you seen that done in competition?But I've seen it in the grappling room all the time.Guys doing it, right?And all of a sudden, people are like, never seen that.

It's like, dude, it's been around forever.Well, it's like when we talked about Edson Barbosa knocking out Terry Edom.How did he get to that fight before that was the first wheel kick KO?We've seen a ton of them since then.But that was the first one?That doesn't even make sense.

When Anderson Silva front kicked Vitor in the face, we were like, wait, hold on.You could do that.Yeah, like I remember Eddie and I having a conversation about kicks And he goes, what do you think about front kicks to the face?I'm like, it doesn't really land that often And then Machida does it to Randy Vitor.Oh my god.So Vitor's been on the receiving end of twice on that kick.

Yeah, man I mean there's been a bunch of them now now you see a lot of front kicks to the face because it's such an unexpected thing Especially if it guys, you know, you're getting hit to the body with it a bunch and you're getting used to doing this and then It hits you right on the chin.It's just such an unexpected technique.Every time we think that we're not going to see something new, something new pops up.But the crazy thing about front kicks is it's literally the first thing you ever get taught.When you learn how to kick, that's the first thing you ever get taught.

The idea of there being a new use for the first thing you ever learn is kind of crazy.

A little snap kick.Yeah.That's nuts.I mean karate like that's for day one Goofy and shit the fact that that's the the kick that and then calf kicks of course like that's no one you know it's interesting becauseCub Swanson is actually saying that he was the first guy to throw calf kicks.He was saying like, I don't know, go back to like 2011.

I was landing calf kicks.I forget who he fought.They said he fucked somebody up with a calf kick.

Well, then I'll tell you before that though, Benson was one of the early ones for sure.Really?Yes, he was doing it in Strikeforce in 2007 -2008.Really?Around that time.If you look at ATT as a team, Mm -hmm they do calf kicks all the time that is a huge weapon that they use you go back and watch Masvidal when he fought KJ Nunes and how he just Destroyed KJ Nunes, and he was kept kicking the calf to the head kick mmm body shots to the box, and he just People really sleep on my eyes, but always slick he was so good.

We knocked out cowboy When he knocked out Darren till until Bananas that step -in hook.

Yeah.Oh, yes.That was a weight class above what he normally fought up.Yep You know he was one of those but he was better when he went up just like most guys are but he never got the car Deserved everywhere he went whether it was strike force into the UFC He never got credit until he started doing things that people didn't think he could do You know when he knocked out like you said Darren till they're running across the cage with Ben Askren like those kind of things He had no love up until those moments sure that guy was always nasty always.

Yeah, all the way back to his Street fighting days with Kimbo, right?

Yeah, that's I I have this I wanted to ask you this because I look at these guys now What is it with the younger fighters that can't get past the old dogs like Dustin doesn't have to retire Justin Gates He doesn't have to retire.They're still ranked at number two and number three What are you seeing on your side that makes you think like these young guys these old guys?They're not going softly into the night.They're not letting these guys come by.Why can't the younger guys get past them?You know get past Justin

Patti was not at Justin's level with stand up.Justin's level was like quite a bit.First of all, Justin is Elite grappler so like what is patty gonna?Do is you're gonna take him down?That's not it.That's no picnic and standing up with Justin Justin has like some of the nastiest fucking leg kicks in the sport, and we should use them more I know right remember when he used to throw him from the clinch Yeah, like he's in tight with you, and he's kicking down on your legs like and you're like How are you moving your hips like yeah?

He was an animal he still is an animal.It's like.He's not he hasn't faded I You know, Justin's not faded.That Fazeev fight, Fazeev is an elite, world -class striker, and he beat him upstanding.Twice.Yeah, he hasn't faded.

Justin hasn't faded.He's just 36 or whatever he is, 37.

I think he's losing, but you gotta have a passion for the sport.And I think Dana says, look, if you're not 100 % in, don't do this.And he's right.And I think there comes that point where it just gets to that, You know what there's there's other things out in the world that I want to start doing and things Do you think Justin's at that spot right now?I'm not too sure he's at this spot But I think he's thought about it based upon some of the performances and the tight fights He's had I think that I think the fight with Max Holloway made him Kind of think about he had that was a tough fight for him all the way through all the way through all the way through He lives a comfortable life.

He does.There's a good life.He enjoys playing golf with the boys.Yeah, you know he's um He's another guy.I know he's like.Oh, I spent I've spent money I need to make more money this and that but He also to me every time I take a look and when people talk about him I think that he's done pretty he's done really well for himself.

I think he's doing well for himself I don't think he's in any danger where he's losing the passion of it well I did I did the the naked gun or whatever the second edition of the naked gun with Liam Neeson and it had we had Kamara Usman and Justin Garrixonwere two of the fighters in it right and he was hysterical throughout the whole thing right and he's such a button pusher with Kamaru you know Kamaru was okay let's go easy and all of a sudden you know Justin's doing something crazy and Kamaru was like What the hell's wrong with you?He loves life.He enjoys life.And I think that, you know, there comes a point where he always had that attitude, you know, when he was undefeated, he goes, someone's going to knock me out.He's honest about things.

And I love that about him, that he doesn't sit there, he doesn't play the, you know, oh, well, we'll see.And so he's honest and he tells you, you know what, this may be my last one.And he's thought about it.And if he's thought about it, it's telling you it's a thought process is there.How far will it go?If he has a great performance against Ilya, I think he'll stick around.

Maybe.Unfortunately, I kind of think I'd rather see him go away.I know that's saying it because I love watching I would love to see him win and go away though That's the whole point that's what I said that would it would be nice if he wins the title at the fucking white and that says that's it I've hit my bucket list the White House thing is odd.

Um, I don't like it I don't like the idea of fighting outside at all.There's problems with it and then times June and it's DC and we looked it up the last time like last year same day was a hundred degrees.Yeah Oh, yeah, yeah hot as fun.You have the lights.Oh, yeah, the light you add the lights.Yeah attracts bugs.

How about dehydration?Oh, yeah.Yeah, the bugs are a big one.

Go back to go back to UFC.

Yeah with all those lights Yeah, go back to UFC 3 see how hot it was How are they gonna fucking do anything about the bugs cuz I know that Dana was talking about that recently they were talking about maybe using fans and Is that enough no, it's not enough bug strips everywhere.What are you gonna?Do like how you gonna stop the bugs?There's a lot of bugs That's good for the fight I just don't think that you should compete ina world championship fight in a non -controlled environment Yeah, I think it should be inside an air -conditioned arena.It should be a controlled environment Just like every like you don't ask someone to do any of that You wouldn't ask them to play a world championship basketball game outside in the Sun.

That'd be crazy Yeah, right you have to you play in a fucking air -conditioned arena, and that's how it should be I agree with you, but I understand the whole thing and I get it special Listen, but it's gonna be a pain in the butt a fucking roof.Yeah build a roof Like you've got all the money in the world, right?You're doing this you want to do this?It's for 4 ,000 seats you build a 4 ,000 seat arena How big is that get a fucking barn Dominium put it in there, you know, like we did UFC's The troops.

Yeah, we didn't win the truth in the hangers.Yeah, we did but yeah, they want the money that White House in the background.

Put it in the background on TV.Who gives a fuck?It's just like when world class fighters are competing, I don't think they should have to compete outside.

They're already putting it in there.

Imagine if someone loses a fight because it's too hot out.Imagine if that becomes a factor.Imagine the dehydrated fighters, like the dehydrated fighters that are now being forced 24 hours later to fight.

In 100 degree heat outside under the spotlights.Go back, I swear to God, UFC 3 was in North Carolina.And it was the hottest thing I've ever been in in my life.

It was outside?

No, it wasn't.It was inside with no air conditioning really inside.They put, there was, it was a 3 ,500 seat arena.They put 6 ,000 people into it.It was under the lights had to be 150 degrees.Okay.

It was, you saw everyone falling out.Hoyce had the problem after chemo and stuff, you know, Ken Shamrock fell out.They all pulled out and stuff.It was, Joe, it was the hottest thing I've ever been in in my life.It was brutal.

You have to ask yourself as a fighter, though, is the spectacle worthcareer?Right.Like is it worth me going out there and fighting?in these circumstances that I'm not used to.Well, we did one outside at Abu Dhabi.

That was when BJ Penn and Frankie Edgar fought, and then Damian Maia.

Anderson Silva against Damian Maia.

And that one, bro, there were bugs flying around.It looked like birds.They were so big.I was like, that's a bug?What kind of bug is that?Can that kill me?

Like, this is crazy.We're in the fucking desert, man.There's some giant ass bugs flying by.And you can hear it.Yeah.Make sure your microphone's not picking it up.

Sounds like a helicopter.

coming by.

You're outside.It's hot.You're in the desert.This is crazy.Like, why are we fighting outside?

No, because I think I had read somewhere where Habib had said, no, I prefer Islam not take a fight there at the White House.There's too many distractions.You got all the media, you got that whole week, plus it's outside.These are all things that your fighter is not used to doing.Why would I jeopardize his win streak, his second title?Why would I jeopardize all of that?

Yeah, his legacy, everything, just so we could fight at the White House.I know it seems great.Yeah, I fought there, but at the end of the day, You got to look at it.

I worked so hard to get here.

I don't want to lose it over this one thing.

I just feel like you could put a roof over it.I mean, you got all this money.

You're making a ballroom.

Make a fucking, make a little, do this on a regular basis.

I mean, are they finishing the ballroom?

Are we going to get that big guy?

I don't know.

Make your own Apex Center.Boom.That's true.I mean, come on.Make a fucking Barndominium.How hard is that?

Civil engineers get the fucking the army to do it So you're gonna be at that one yeah Allegedly if there's not a bomb that goes off between now, and then who fucking knows this world is crazy I love what you did with the ibogaine with it man.

Thank you way to go well It was the process on that how long does that take?

Oh?I don't care what the process was way to go.Thank youThe process was me texting Trump.

Literally.

I'm not bullshitting.That was a long process.I'm not bullshitting.

I texted him on Friday.He showed up to the UFC on Saturday, shook my hand and said it's done.You're kidding.Oh, no, I'm not kidding at all.No, I text him.He texted me back.

Are you looking for FDA approval?Sounds good to me. I tell him how effective it is at helping all these veterans with PTSD, people with traumatic brain injuries, all these different things.People, I mean, we have a problem with fentanyl in this country.This is one of the best things that we've ever demonstrated.I'm like, listen, there's so many people that Risked their life for this country.They come back and there's no help and this is the only thing that's they've found helping Yeah, and it's illegal and that doesn't make any sense You shouldn't have to go to Mexico to get treatment for something that you got because you were defending your country That's nuts.

And so he right away.

He was like look this makes sense to me like he cut through all the bullshit Common sense and there was a bunch of people that were trying to get in the way of it a bunch of people I mean inside the White House people that we're trying to get and he's like fuck you fuck you Do it and he like was telling him just do it make it happen, and he made it happen, and that's amazing for everybody Yeah, no it was amazing that you know what you stepped up because you are gonna be helping so many people I don't think people don't have an idea of how bad it is and what that can do for him So I think way to God I was like see I always say you always you always talking about you're a dummy.I'm a dummy I always tell people I said he's super intelligent and And you are, because you got that done.It just proves it.

Well, I never asked him for anything else.I've never asked him for anything.Never.Maybe a signing pin or something.He gave me those anyway.I didn't even ask.

I've got a bunch of stuff.I've got a pen.I've got a bunch of things.But I was like, if there's anything that I would really ask him for, that is, it's bipartisan support.Like Democrats support it.Republicans support it.

85 % of the country supports it.Especially when it comes to things likeIbogaine, which is not even remotely recreational.I haven't done it.Makes people sick.Everybody who's done it says it's horrible, you get diarrhea, but it's 24 hours of misery, but when it's over, you're a new person.

And look, Rick Perry, God bless him, because if it wasn't for him getting behind it, that changed everybody's opinion.Here you have this Republican, former governor of Texas, who's talking about it and then talking about his own personal experiences doing it.You know, so him and Brian Hubbard, I mean, they really went all out.And when I had them on my podcast, not once but twice to talk about this and the state of it, where it's being passed in Texas, they got $100 million from Ken Paxton.So which is, yeah, no.Was it Ken Paxton?

No.No, who is it?Corn.Corn.Dan Patrick.Sorry.

Dan Patrick.So Dan Patrick, who approved this hundred million dollars for this Ibogaine initiative.Like these people all deserve praise.This is like there's a lot of people that for the longest time they thought of psychedelics as being something that losers do.And then they realize, like, no, there's a lot of people that need help.

And this could help.It could be a good side.I was just I was just in San Diego last Monday and then I was in L .A.on Tuesday.And it's unrecognizable.

It's sad.And when you take a look at San Diego, it's always been beautiful, beaches in the background, but it was worse than L .A.I was in the Burbank area, and actually it was a lot nicer than San Diego was.And the Gaslight District was just disgusting.

It's crazy.Bam, what is it, Gaslamp?

Yeah, Gaslamp.I couldn't believe it.I walked into a couple of restaurants, you got homeless people stumbling in, trying to order, trying to take food off of people's plates while they're there.

I'm just like, What is going on?No law enforcement.

It's right.It's the first time that I went back and I've been back, you know, in the last three years, I've been back two or three times a year easily.It's the first time I went back.I was like, man, this is not this is not what it used to be.This is not it was it just felt it felt like it felt like for the first time.first time, I didn't feel safe there.

And it's weird to me.And how do you get that, how do you bring it back?

Oh, it's simple.You bring it back by doing the right things.Common sense things.Taking, you know...

Oh, I understand this, but who do you get to do it?Do you think Chad Bianco does it?Do you think Steve Hilton does it?Who do you get to turn the state around?Your girl, Katie Porter?

She get it done?Oh, Jesus Christ.

She'll scold everybody into compliance.But I'm sitting outside.

I'm sitting outside having dinner last night and I'm watching a bunch of homeless guys talking to themselves.And this is the problem.I was a police officer for 23 years.OK.I've been out there with them.And you have people that, you know, they have serious problems, you know.

And I understand, you know, the ACLU and stuff.Oh, it's not right to put them.No.It's better for them, and it's better for the people that are out on the street just trying to live their lives, to have that person be put into a place where they can receive some medication, receive some help, and try to get them back than it is to let these people just rot on the street and self -destruct.And I'm watching it and it's like, how is that so hard to figure out that it's better to do something with them than it is to just let them be?It's crazy.

Yeah, it's, we've lost our way, you know, as a society.And I think a great reflection of that is how many homeless people you have camped out on your streets.Those are the places where they've lost their way the most.And this is, unfortunately, a lot of these Democrats run cities.

I owned a couple of gyms in San Jose and just, it was tent city.And along the highway like leading up to my along the road that led up to my gym all those things But you would see they would they were stealing solar panels from people's houses And they would put them up on the sidewall so they could charge their cell phones like they're smart enough to do those things, right?It's not as if like they're not they're notjust drug addicts.That's a lot of it.That's it.

A lot of it is just drug addicts.But in areas like San Jose...

That can help with that.A hundred percent.

But things like in San Jose or San Francisco, they're giving them needles, they're giving them drugs.They're giving them phones.

It's like, why are we doing this?Well, the other problem is the amount of money that's involved in the homeless industry now.That's right.When you find out that California spent $24 billion and homelessness only got worse...And what have they done?

Nothing not only that but the fucking they tried to do an audit on it and the governor vetoed it It's only 24 billion guys well how much did they spend on that bridge that had the for the mountain lions.Oh my God.What are we doing?

Hey, hey, hey, that's okay.The mountain lions need a fucking bunch.

They need hugs.They need hugs.They need to wake up.The problem is that they're in this bizarre mindset, this liberal leftist mindset that's just not tenable.You can't defend it.

It's not - That's because it's crazy.It doesn't work.Yeah.I always look at this.People talk about left and right, and most people are ...I'm in the same I think a lot of people are.

Most of us are.But you get labeled as being on the right if you're not all the way to the left.Absolutely.

If you're not all crazy, you're to the far right.Yeah, it's nuts.It's absolutely just a nutty seesaw.Yeah.

Well, I just saw something that I can't remember who it was, but they continue to talk about, you know, let's keep taxing the billionaires, keep taxing the billionaires.And do what with the money?And that's the point, though.So why don't we just not going to go away?Why don't we just not tax the people that make under 200 ,000?

That's actually something Jeff Bezos brought up He said you should the the bottom 50 % the people that make the yeah the the least amount of money don't tax them at all He goes because they're not contributing that much to the tax base anyway And they would contribute more to the economy if had more money absolutely

Absolutely.It would help everybody.That's right.I think he's right.I always said 150 ,000 down, you don't pay taxes.That's a great number.

I also thought about it, too, is if you were to take ...If you got rid of the ...Because they're talking about this housing shortage and all of the other things.Why don't we get rid of the low interest rates?Because I have a couple of interest rates on some houses that I have that are at 2%.How do you get rid of those?

Well, why don't you just raise my capital gains tax so I don't got to pay My wife and I whatever we can pay like less on that versus that 500 ,000 threshold Why don't you make it a million so then I'll cash out on those and just take my money out And then I'll start putting it back into the economy again like there's all you're talking like a sensible business You can do the death tax they did in New York.

Oh, that's nuts.

Oh my god people are just gonna bail out of that city.It's crazy It's easy fucking people to think like taxing the rich is the solution and do what with the money if you were doing a great job With the money and everything was accounted for and there was no fraud and waste I'd be like well, maybe you just need more money, but that's That's clearly not the case.You've got so much fraud and you're ignoring it.And then this Nick Shirley kid, when he exposes it, everybody's like, yes, you should be praising him.

Hello, give that kid an award.Give him a fucking award.Here, I want journalist of the year, and he's not a journalist.

How much fraud do you think is in this country?

Billions and billions and billions.

I mean, Elon had said when he first came in, he goes, hey, I think it's close to a trillion dollars, maybe a little bit over.

He said it was so bad that he didn't want to talk about it too much.He's worried.They'd kill him.You know he really don't don't on it.

It's wild Joe He ain't stupid no But I mean to think though and think how much in California they've discovered or let's just say what 200 billion at least you know somewhere aroundthere.That's on the low end.New York's probably, and Chicago is.But they've got to do it in all states.You can't just do it in the ones where it's LA and Chicago and New York.

We've got to do it in all states.It's got to be in Texas, too.It's got to be everywhere.

It's everywhere.There's fraud, and these people are profiting off of the fraud.They were funneling it right back into the parties, and it's dirty business.

Well, you didn't really think that that shovel the government pays for was really fucking $900?

Well, there's a lot of that as they get above and they have to pay, they have to spend all the money.They have to spend every bit of it.Yeah, otherwise they won't get the same budget next year.

Which is wild to me, because the schools operate the same way.If the teachers don't spend a certain amount of money on these things, then they don't get the same budget for next year.No, no.Why don't we reward the people that actually save the money?

Yeah.

It doesn't make any sense to me.

It just makes no sense.That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.What is wrong with you?

Gentlemen.I want to know, when are you coming to my class?Your refereeing class?Yeah.When is it?When you have it?

July 17th and 19th.He's gone.

Oh, I'm not even gonna be in the car.Okay But when are you doing one?Where are you doing them?

Usually I do them in Vegas at like stream couture or something like that Because I need the gym to put people in cages with fighters if I can I definitely will I would love to see it I'd love to see it.Is there a location we can do one that way.I don't have that way at any time.I You know you have my number text me if you have a question It's nice when you know exactly what the referee can do what where they're gonna go and when you're looking in like with you know a mark Goddard or Herb D What when you know if you go to the club you'll know exactly hey This is what he can do and this is this is why he'll do it I'll definitely ask you.

I promise.At the very least, I'll ask you next time an issue comes up.

No problem.

I'll have you on speed dial.

There you go.

Maybe I'll put you on speakerphone at the UFC.

Hey everybody big John's right Don't do that.It's the one thing that I'm always watching and it's like, you know, and you guys are like, I don't know.I don't know.

I'm like, this is the answer.Well, you know, I'll reach out.I promise.Love you.Thank you, brother.Love you too.

Love both of you guys.This was fun.

Let's do it again.

Oh, absolutely.

There's always going to be fights to talk about.Frickin' A. I live up the street, so let me know anytime.All right.

Fuck yeah.All right.Talk to you later.Bye everybody.