JRE MMA Show #181 with Justin Gaethje & Trevor Wittman

The Joe Rogan Experience.

I couldn't wait to talk to you.Congratulations on one of the most epic accomplishments in the history of combat sports.And that's not an understatement.I mean, it might be an understatement.I mean, it's not an overstatement.It's perfect.

That was one of the greatest nights I've ever experienced of watching anything in my life.It was amazing.And to have you cap it off and win the title when you're facing a guy that everybody thought was at least number two pound for pound.It was like him and Islam are number one and number two.And some odds had you at six to one, which I thought was very disrespectful.I thought, I thought like, this is crazy.

Like six to one is crazy.Like Ilya is really good, but so is Justin.This is kind of nuts.Like to have you win the way you won in front of the fucking White House.

Yeah.How's it feel?Oh, you know, it's really not real yet.Um, I was expecting to have like, um, an internal sense of relief that like I don't have something to chase because I was always chasing this belt and I was expecting to wake up with like some kind of natural release of pressure, but I don't know.I don't feel that.As the days go by every day, I feel it a little bit more, a little bit more.

Two days ago, my dad was like, you know, what was it like waking up being the champion?And I was like, I haven't even thought about that.And then I was, you know, on the shitter like 10 minutes later and I was sitting there thinking about it.Wow, I'm the fucking champion.It's fucking crazy.And yeah, it's just, I mean, I've just been on the grind for so many years now.

My dad dropped me off 19 years ago in Colorado.I knew nobody.to wrestle.And yeah, to see where I'm at now is just absolutely incredible.I mean, there's really no way to explain how or why, you know, or like why I deserve it.I mean, I worked my ass off.

I have made mistakes.You know, I've done things the wrong way, but I've always corrected and got back on the path.And, you know, I think the coaches, the mentors, but mostly the coaches that I've been, you know, and the team that I have around me is a huge reason why I was able to stay on track and just keep moving forward and keep trusting that, you know, I belong in the top of the league.

Well, you've clearly shown it throughout your career and having a great coach like Trevor and one of the reasons why I wanted to bring you in Trevor is because you guys have a very unique relationship.First of all, I love the YouTube series, The Art of Violence.Fantastic.And what's great is Watching you two guys work together and Trevor you being like very acutely aware of when to pull him back when to ramp it up when to push like you're you guys having a relationship like that is so critical because You guys know each other so well, you've seen him perform so many times you've seen him fight and perform in the gym that you know where he's at all the time and having that sense of where your fighter is at any given time in camp, because you know him so well.Boy, that's a giant advantage.Well, hold on.

There we go.Testes, one, two, three.

Yeah, I think that's a huge advantage is knowing your athlete.And, you know, I've been doing this for a long period of time, but there's lots of coaches out there that consider their fighters their friends.I do consider them one of my best friends, but I put myself more in like a father position of I need to know when to tell them the truth.and I've got myself in trouble with that with fighters where you tell him the truth so hard that you have to let him go and Like a child, like, hey, if we're not in the same beliefs, go live life and see how it is.And then when you return, I'm still going to love you.Having that type of thing where I have to be dead honest for your career, not because it helps us now and it feels good right now at the moment.

I have to look at that from from the time that we start.We talk about, you know, what are his goals?And then my job is to be an advisor, be a mentor to get him to that place as best as I can, because these are his goals.And I want to support those.And in the beginning of his career, his goals were to be the most Violent guy out there the most remembered the guy that's every time someone bought a ticket.They remembered Justin Gaethje selling that show and then it turned into no I want to have this belt and that was hard because we did go and not get the belt twice and You know, it's so cool to be in the kind of those scenarios where it's like damn you had two opportunities now it's never gonna happen and That's what life is.

Life is one of those things that you keep getting up and chase your goals.You never know how it's going to happen.And yes, you want to dream and you want to have a plan.But I'll tell you right now, through all the times that I've had championship fighters in business and in life, The plans never work.You always have to adjust them.But it's that dream and that vision to get you to the top of the stairs.

You have to get up each one of those steps.So, you know, Justin went out there and wrote a story that I don't think will ever be forgotten.And he did it one round at a time.And that's what impresses me, because his mindset, I love the mental game.I love to talk about the mental game, even like Ilya.Ilya is a special guy with how he uses his mental, the secret, that if I see it, I believe it, it'll happen.

To a point, you know, it's like I always tell people like if you want if you go down thatice cream aisle and you're like, hey, I don't know what ice cream I want, you're going to stand there and go, oh, that one looks good, that one looks good, that one looks better.The people that are like, I want mint chocolate chip, you get in there, you get it done, you grab that mint chocolate chip and you walk out.Very similar to Ilya's last three fights.He went out there and he demanded what he wanted.His confidence got him through that.

But it makes it very hard when you get that stale, nasty, rotten milk, fucking mint chocolate chip, that you start to go, oh shit, what is gonna happen now?So I think the relationship that we have is me guiding him, me pulling him back at the Strickler situation.Hey, let's pull back a little bit.Let's focus on what's going on.I don't want no distractions.And having someone, and he trusts that I care about him.

I love him to death.I love his family.Our relationship is so strong and I need that with my athletes.I'm just blessed and 100, you know, I say honored, but more importantly humbled by someone who I've never worked mental with, who chose me different ways to the mental game of fighting, which I feel I'm very high level with, is it's something that if you put yourself around people that make you better, This guy makes me better daily, and I'm very grateful for that.

You said something about Ilya, about the fight, about having expectations.And you said you don't have any expectations when you fight.That way, you don't get thrown off.

Yeah, I mean, it's huge.I mean, my expectations come from my hard work.Obviously, I expect my body to perform.I understand that I've trained my mind to and you know maybe the narcissistic tendencies in me love showing off and performing in front of you know thousands of people on that stage.That's what I love the most about this and that's what my personality like I'm very competitive I want to win but I'm notgoing to lie to myself.

I've never had a coach in my entire career, since four years old at wrestling, have to pull me aside and talk about the mental aspect of competition.Because it's always been so natural to me. I'm not sure if it's because they see that I'm doing good.that they agree with my approach mentally or they don't, they don't understand what's going on or, but I've just always been so comfortable and so content with my situation of, you know, this is a competition, it's a game, you know, I'm very competitive, I'm very petty, I take everything personal and yeah, when I go in there with, I have gone in with expectations and it's, I said it before the fight, you know, Ailey, like, I said so many true things to him, and I think it's such an asset to tell someone the brutal truth, especially someone like him, because it pushes them farther away from the truth.Even if I tell him the exact truth and exactly what's going to happen, and you're making a mistake by having all these expectations, and when we go to round two, and when we go to round three, and it's not going as you predicted it, or wanted it to, or expected it to, then where do you go from there?I said that exact thing to him, and then that pushed him farther away from the truth.

And you know, I it's almost like you wanted to prove you wrong.

Yeah, he wanted to prove he wanted to prove himself, right?yeah, you know and he was unwilling to be open to opinions and because obviously I don't know him he knows him better than himself, but you know, I I got here because I am coachable I got here because I listen I use every everything like I posted yesterday every person place I think that has happened to me or for me has ultimately molded my mind and my body to be able to deal with this.that happened on Sunday night And you know I can I can pull so much experience from the past my losses my wins Setbacks failures Accomplishments, I mean there was so much to learn from you know every day is a learning experience And I constantly try to learn and be better, and I don't know why I'm able to Perform like that.I think I just think it's who I am and You know, when I say I wanted to be the most exciting fighter ever, it's not that I wanted to be the most exciting fighter ever.The thought of that was fucking cool to me, you know, but I was just being me.And I've been blessed to be able to, you know, through my childhood, through coming from a small town, through having, you know, unwavering support from my family and my friends and my coaches and my teachers.

And everybody from, you know, it's just crazy to be able to come out on top.I mean, it's just crazy.

One of the things I think was a giant factor in the fight is that you have been in wars.You've been in a bunch of wars.And Ilia really, it only had some rough moments against Jai Herbert.You know, Yusuf Zalal gave him some problems, but it was nothing serious.The wars that you've been in, these just down and dirty brawls that you've been in, You're comfortable with the back and forth.You're comfortable with enduring.

You know that you're not going to break.You know, if your body holds up, you're going to keep fighting and you can endure.I don't think he'd ever experienced that before.So when you didn't break in the second round, and I think he made a mistake, and I think you're correct about that.You said he made a mistake by going to the ground.Absolutely.

And then he hurt you to the body.

I told Trevor yesterday, I said,you know, him hurting to my body was the reason, one of the main reasons I won.You know, when he, when he hit me, when I dropped, it wasn't the first time he hit me in the body.That was probably like the fourth or fifth one.And he had landed some really clean shots.And he could probably sense that I was in trouble and hurt.

And I think, you know, that fact made him dump everything because it was his last chance to take me out and he almost did take me out but when I went down It's always easy to make these decisions in hindsight, but when I went down, he's had way more submissions than he has knockouts, and so for him not to have that belief that he's going to be able to go down there, especially with the Khabib fight, especially with the Charles Oliver fight, especially with all the negativity around my grappling, I think he would have been foolish not to, because I would have stood back up.I would have stood back up and he would have charged forward, tried to finish me. I would have jumped on his legs.I would have pulled guard.He was going to end up on top of me no matter what.I wasn't going to sit there and trade with him again.I would have front rolled into grappling situations.

I would have made him cover me.But I think me getting hit is what made him better.completely blows, you know, Shane Carwin -esque.You know, blow his tank and, you know, go for the win.And I think that was the choice he had to make because it was going to continue to get worse.I beat his ass in the first round.

Like, it might have been close on the scorecards.I absolutely took the first round, but the amount of damage that I inflicted in the first round set up the rest of the fight.

I do think it was a mistake.And you're saying, what you're saying is so correct.But what I'm saying is from a standpoint of him demanding it, he's going to finish you in the first two, understanding the damage that he was taking.He took big risks.He got in there.He kept his hands on your collarbones.

He was landing really good shots.He had the two body shots before.that left hook to the liver, the sound it made was crazy.That last one was clean.It was precise and deep, but you could tell it was already there.But if he didn't put that pressure on his self, and this is what I mean by mistake, is when you come out, you have to know that you're going five rounds.

He knew that he had to unleash everything right there.If he would have been smart in that scenario saying, hey, we got five rounds.Let me step back a little bit.Let me do some damage.But also he's like, hey, let me get you out of there quick.Justin, you know, can't grapple, can't do all these things with a lot of people think, which Justin's a great grappler.

And what was so smart about you is when you get tired, that's where the worst decisions happen.That's one of my big things is coaching as we get someone tired and then we make them make bad decisions And then then we capitalize on that on those mistakes Justin was able to stay so composed here With being speared to the body and when you take a liver shot It is way different than the head shot a head shots like taking a shot with your buddies at the bar It's like hey, let's go, you know, but you take a body shot You're dying like your liver shot.You feel like you're dying and Justin is all the decisions he made on the ground, from the triangle, from the armbar, from not being flat.So many good decisions were made in that scenario.And I do think it was a mistake.Obviously, there's so many different ways it could go.

But those type of moments in fights are what make fights great, is overcoming obstacles.And he had set that up.He had said it.He's like, hey, I'm going to overcome anything.I'm going out there to put the worst thing out there.Like, what are you going to do to me?

I've already been knocked out the last second of a freaking huge fight by Max.Like, you can't do nothing worse to me.And that mindset, I think, is something to take away for all the fighters out there that always, I love how you say it, expect a war.Always.Some of the biggest mistakes that I've made with fighters that I had is allowing them to think that they're going to go through this fight easy.And then that fight becomes super hard.

You think it's going to be a war, then you're like, hey, it wasn't as easy.as I was expected even if it was a little bit of a war they're not gonna help them in that moment yeah there's no pulling them out that's fighting fighting like fighting is is mentality I look at this like there's techniques out there and there's things like that what makes this sport inspirational and make someone that want to go out there and beat cancer because they were inspired by a fighter it's not the technical piece it's It's getting back up, and it's okay to get knocked down.I love watching people get knocked down, because my favorite part is seeing how they get up.And that, to me, is why I love fighting.It's how people get up.

Yeah how they endure and that was the big story of that second round that you figured out a way to get through it and the change in tempo in the third round was very obvious because the sprint that you have to make like what Ilya did when he was trying to finish you that he he used so much fucking energy and the great Chael Sonnen once said that if you try to win by knockout and fail you won't win by submission.Yeah, a lot of times.That's the case because you know as good as anybody if you fucking sprint it hard you wail on the bag with fucking everything you got for two minutes, and then they go time One minute's not enough.

It's not even in preparation Yeah, that was crazy For these fights like I'm doing 20 30 40 second sprints at most I mean that was That was a two -minute sprint for him.

Yes.Full out.Full out.Full power.Everything full power.Every punch full power.

You can't even train for that.

You gotta have spots.Right.And he didn't.He was just unloading.I mean, that's a young man with a tremendous amount of confidence because he's a two -division world champion and he thinks he's going to go down as the greatest of all time.And hey, he might still.

He still could.He might still.

What is he, 28?The odds are fucking great against that right now.

Because of the power.I hope he does.I hope he does, too.

I hope he does, and I know that he has the skill.I know that he has the skill to be a champion again.However, same thing with Tony Ferguson.I didn't break Tony Ferguson's confidence.I changed the perception of his opponents.Him and that is a huge factor when you go in there like who are you fighting?

What do you figure you know before this?he was a guy that would that you couldn't get through that you couldn't push through you couldn't survive with and Once I showed people that all you gotta do is get through that Then nobody's ever gonna go in there with thinking that he's unbeatable now.You know and that that was his that was his Identity and you know that's gonna be such a tough task for him to fight people that aren't scared of him That's interesting.

That's Mike Tyson in his prime.That's Anderson Silva in his prime where the fight was lost before I was in there Yeah, the fight was lost before he got even got in there um physically Now, I don't know what the truth is, but all these reports are that he has two fractured orbitals and a broken nose.Just that alone, just the orbitals alone, like anytime you've got eye injuries, like anything severe with your eyes, long -term consequences vary.It's psychological.Absolutely.

And physical.Your body heals.The body is resilient.Broken bones make stronger bones.His orbital bones will be stronger.It depends on where though, Justin.

The orbital bone, I had my orbital broken.And for six months, I would do this and my tooth would move.And it's right where my sinus cavity is.You remember when you hit me with a spinning elbow?Your tooth would move when you push on your cheek?And my tooth would move.

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com slash Joe Rogan.both orbitals and the nose.

Like I do believe the body is resilient.You ever seen Marab's nose?Yeah.You ever seen the x -ray of Marab's nose?

No.

Did I send it to you, Jim?It looks like a spine.

Dude.

He's got 33 vertebrae.

It's literally fucking crazy.I've had three broken noses.I've had it fixed twice.

Yeah, I know you had it fixed.You know, this is one.There it is.

That's Marab's nose.Oh my God.Oh my God.I mean, that looks like a long cocaine binge right there.Took out the whole fucking left side of his nose.

You got hit with a sledgehammer.That nose is crazy.That is crazy.And to fix it, he's going to have to have no contact for like a year.Yeah, that's hard.And so he's not going to fix it.

He's just going to deal.Look how turned it is. I mean, the bone.

I've had my eyes fixed and my nose fixed, and my nose was better for quality of life.Oh, the nose is a big thing.Obviously, being able to see was a big thing.but when your nose is broken, you have to understand getting a haircut fucking sucks.You can't breathe through your nose, so your mouth's open the whole time.You're constantly breathing in fucking hair.

Every time you eat food like you just there's something missing.Yeah sleep.I wore a nose tip to bed for 10 years now You know now I have a scab a permanent scab because it peels that thing off all the time Yeah, my nose is used to it now, but yeah When you gotta fix Which fight was it before the max fight?

Yeah, right for the next fight and then you could breathe out of it perfectly Yeah.Is it still good now?

Yeah, he broke it, but he didn't break, he didn't fuck with the cartilage.He broke, he actually fractured the bone up top, so I didn't have to get it fixed.

It's another factor that when we were talking about the fight and, you know, people were talking about this matchup with Ilya, I said, you have to think about what he did to Fazeev.Fazeev is a super talented striker.Then you also have to think about the max Holloway fight because he was pressing in the first round but he got caught with a jump spinning back kick to the fucking face and when that was that's a that's a game -changer and it happened at the end the first round and From that it changed the tone of the fight because it was just dead on it was perfect Yeah, I couldn't land it any better and the truth of the matter is is psychologically.

I was not I was not there I I was not prepared mentally for the fight when I fought Max Holloway.It was such a different circumstance.It was, you know, a guy that wasn't in my weight class.It was a guy that I'd never thought about fighting.It was for fun.And the whole experience was so different than any other fight I've ever had when it comes to, like, being mentally prepared for a fight.

What do you attribute that to?Myself.And us.Like, we took it.him to take the fight.He didn't want to take the fight.

And then we told him that you're going to keep the title contention fight because that's what they promised us.That's why he was very...

Every one of you guys every one of you was like, oh something was different.It was like, well, why don't you guys fucking say something?

You told me after me after the fight like I knew something was different but like I needed to know he told me He's like this he's like I just didn't respect him and I'm like, how could you not respect Max and I didn't catch on to it So it's like I'm always looking for flags and things like that and 100 % I take 100 % responsibility because that's how we learn everybody makes mistakes I remember the Tony Ferguson fight I didn't give any fucking water, you know, like there's like things that we all learn from but the things when he had told me that I'm like how did I not catch that from you because he's like dude he was a smaller guy just didn't and and I was like dude Max is like one of the guys that I look up to from the outside like he is talented.

I remember thinking what what am I looking for like what am I afraid of?I kept trying to convince myself that I needed to be I need to find what I was to be worried about and I couldn't find it.

So you always need that before a fight?

Yeah.No matter who it is, you're fighting.I've never been as present and I've never been able to retain a fight.Before the knockout, I was there.I was in the arena.I saw the lights, I saw the people, I heard the people.

I've never been there in my life and I think that I can attribute that to me not being scared and me not being in a real fight or flight situation.Real -life or death situation so you weren't fully focused you could actually hear the crowd yeah I could hear my thoughts You know I had thoughts never had thoughts in a fight because I'm so intuitive and reactionary And that one was just so dear there was so much and so sure the kicks the eye pokesNo, I think I was not, I couldn't have beaten that night with the mentality that I had.And that was my last lesson to learn.I had made my lesson, you know, my lessons with Oliveira was like, I wanted it so much.I wanted it so bad and I wanted to perform and I wanted to impress My fans, you know Rose had a fight that night and she fought like absolute garbage And I you know, and I told my coaches like coach don't worry.

I won't I won't do that to you He said right before we're about to walk.I was like don't worry coach, I would never let you down like that And coach is pissed and everyone's you know, my the locker rooms all fucked up cuz Pat's fucking weird Is that the Carlos Barza fight?Was that the same night?Yeah, and I was at home and so there was just and that was again That was my fault.I allowed those things to affect me and to affect my fighting decisions rather than just being myself.And so that was a huge mistake.

Another mistake was winning two or three times in a row and just kind of becoming complacent with how serious what we do is and how dangerous this game is and how much luck and chance are a factor every single night.And so, you know, I wasn't doing the extra credit.I wasn't sitting in the sauna at home, you know, and I don't know, I don't know why.It's just, and then I made that mistake, probably into the Eddie Alvarez, Dustin Poirier fights, lost.And then I won three or four in a row.And then I completely went back to the same mindset of I'm the best in the world.

Nobody can beat me.And I paid for it.And those two mistakes were huge, very, very big learning lessons.And then, you know, the Charles Olivera fight.I wanted it so bad and then I made the moment so much bigger than it actually was.because it's just 25 minutes in time, and all I can control is being perfect, my preparation for it, but then ultimately being there for 25 minutes and being perfect.

And yeah, those are the mistakes that I made.I had to learn, I had to make those mistakes.I would not change anything about my career.I think the farther back into my career you go, the more special this moment is.And I think in time, again, this is gonna age, my career is something special.The way that I did it, The way that I lost, the way that I stayed on track, the way that I, you know, threatened retirement if I wasn't going to get a title shot, the way I called my shots along the way, and the discipline I had.

I mean, it's second to none.I've watched this sport my whole life.Since 1992, my dad showed me. I remember as a four -year -old seeing it.I don't have a lot of, you know, great memories.I remember my childhood, but it's not like you have specifics.But I remember seeing it for my first time in my dad's bedroom.

We were sitting there watching it together, and I was enthralled.I was like, this is amazing.I love this.Can you picture that hit with like a baby bottle just squeezing it?And I was a diehard fan I've been a diehard fan ever since then and especially 2001 when it came along I was you know probably in seventh or eighth grade sixth or seventh grade and just fell in love with it And then you know mean call going into college We'd go and sit above the wild wings for six seven eight hours spend five dollars those poor service people It's just amazing that you've been able to keep this ferocious mentality for so long.

Because I remember when you first entered into the UFC, the Michael Johnson fight, I was so pumped for it because I was like, get ready, because this is going to be fucking wild.Because I had been a fan of yours when you were fighting in the World Series of Fighting.And then that Michael Johnson fight.was everything that I thought it would be fucking crazy Just a wild -ass fight crazy coming out party dude.

I giggled so many times in that fight Dude, would you win against the cage and you were like this you like look back and you were like, oh I'm looking for the shot and you're like blocking off the thing Did you come back with the right hook and then you let it back in again?Do you hit it with the right hook again off the cage?There's so many giggle sessions in there Wasn't nervous cuz just again.That's the way he fights, and I'm like he's no one's gonna forget this fight Michael Johnson was Swinging I caught him with that left hands a few times.

Well.That's the same left hand he knocked out Dustin His left hand is so fast.He's And Michael's power Yeah, dude, and and he was trying to win I mean he was going all out that you guys just emptied out in that fight It was fantastic, and I was like there it is the the three rounder to get off the the backflip Took three rounds.

He got up there, fell out, got up there, fell out.I was like, you can do it.I'm out there motivating him.

I always get so scared for your knees when you do that.

I'm like, please don't hurt your knees after you won the title.I'm 100 percent, baby.I ain't missed it yet.

We're training for Khabib.We're over at high altitude.He's doing backflips off the cage.And I was like, stop.Do this after the fight.

Yeah, he's like, hey, no more backflips.Today, today's the day, today's the day I become a bitch.Like today's the day.

I'll never forget that moment.He's like, you know what?I turned my head, I was like, nah, go ahead.

That is kind of true, right?When you get something and all of a sudden you're special, then you start protecting it and then you won't be special anymore.

That's what makes him who he is.That's what I told him, I was like, so today, today's the day, huh?He's fucking crazy.

I never want him to stop being fucking crazy.Everything about him, in life, When you play golf with him, he's the highlight.He does shit that you'll never fucking see.Everything you do is the highlight.His life is like his fighting.He's fucking wild.

So your mentality You've never had to work on I mean obviously you've learned lessons along the way But you've never had to like sit down and work on this mindset.It's always been something you inherently possessed.

Yeah Yeah, I think it's crazy.I think I think people just complicate things so much like when you can truly Understand that there is things you can't control, but it's not everything.You can only control what's inside of you.You know, you can only control how you perceive things, how you react to things.The work you put in.Obviously the preparation.

Yeah.

But it's, I mean, there's so much, you know, and I guess I always knew that something was coming because no matter how far off the road, you know, like I've made mistakes, you know, I've done Thank God I was never an alcoholic, but I could say I was probably a drug addict at one time in my life.What drugs?I don't know.I've never told my parents about this.

You don't have to.

All of them.I know this is going to sound stupid, but I went to school for human services.I wanted to help people.A big part of that is helping people come off drugs.And I lost many, over a handful of friends, really close friends from drugs.Where I come from, we're not far from Mexico, and we had the best.

We had the best shit coming right across the border before it ever got caught up.And it was, my life, where I'm from is very boring.And so like you chase, again, we have it so good in this country.We're always trying to create chaos in order to feel something.And I guess that's what I was probably doing.And in college is when I really, you know, I was like, if I'm going to help people come off of drugs, then how do I do that?

even try to understand if I don't know what they're chasing?And so that was a part of it.And also a part was, it felt good, you know?And so, you know, once I did that, Certain things I knew what people were chasing, but then I always knew that something was bigger for me and better for me And I had something to do and so that was always it was never a crutch for me I was always like that was awesome.You know I'm not doing it again.

What is it in your head that were you always knew that you had something bigger?

Well, probably my faith.I mean, I've been, my parents, the best thing they ever did for me was make me go to church every single Sunday and create a relationship with God through the word of Jesus Christ.And just trying to live up to those expectations.I knew, not that I was going to be a champion or anything, I just knew that I couldn't take the easy way out.You know, when you're on drugs, or when you're living a lifestyle like that, then nobody expects anything from you.Nobody wants anything from you.

And that's an easy way to live.There's no pressure.

No expectations.

No expectations, no pressure.And I mean, it really is, I can understand how you can let that overcome the passion to live.I don't know, I just think the passion to live because of my faith has never outweighed my desire to live.feel good.

I want to talk about the shift that you made in your career from being the most exciting guy in the world wanting to be the most exciting guy in the world being happywith performing to the best of your ability, whether you win or lose, to wanting to get the belt.What started that decision?

It's weird because I don't remember a time or a day where I made a change other than I'm not going to get hit.You know, in the Dustin Poirier fight, in the Eddie Alvarez fight, I absolutely almost broke them.And it was no different than any of my other fights.Nobody had just ever...Same with Ilya, you know?Like, nobody had ever got past it.

Nobody had ever been able to withstand the ferocity of my actions for two or three rounds.And then those guys did.And I was like, what happened?You know?And ultimately, I put myself in a position and I got hit with a shot that took me out of the fight.And so, after those fights, I was like, I have to not take these shots.

And that was ultimately all I can say that I changed mentally is I don't want to get hit.I used to never care about getting hit because it's like, it doesn't hurt.Nothing hurts in there.You don't feel nothing.It's never hurt.And so that was really just the mindset.

I just need to not let them get me in a predicament where I'm not able to, where they have to stop the fight.So the shift, uh, but he, he probably from the outside, not outside.

Yeah, it's, it's definitely there.There was a shift and it wasn't just like an instant shift.It was the two losses in a row with Eddie and poor year, uh, where he's like, I'm winning these fights and I need to be able to get to the distance.And I was like, all right, we got to become a spot fighter.Cause you just drowned people.And you're, what's happening is you're making mistakes.

We threw a low kick against poor yet.He got caught because he based back lazy with his shoulders above his, his hips.So I was like, all right, let's be sharp.Let's fight in spots Then he goes on a three fight win streak where he's finding the right spots and putting people out from from Vic to Barbosa into Cowboy Cerrone then that's where he's like and then I I sat down with him and I was like Do you want to be a champion?And I was like this is how you have to fight to be a champion is be smart And he never said he, he never said he didn't want to be the most excited fighter in the world.He would tell me after fights, he's like, I don't know if you're trying to fight excited, but look at me.

And it's like, it's so amazing.Like it's in him.It's just, how do we, how do we get you to sprint 50 yards, pull back for a hundred yards and jog and then sprint for 50 yards and like be able to know your, your, your, your red line.Don't, don't cross over that red line.Don't hold red line.

Well, that is, again, the experience that you found in wars.It was so critical in the White House fight.Yeah, he could do it.But we don't want to make mistakes.

And it is, I think it's crazy.I think, again, the fact that they said that he had outstruck me in the first round, 39 to 32 or something.

He had landed some hard jabs in that first round.Yeah, yours were devastating.

He might have touched and skimmed on his jabs.But I'm talking about the perception.It looks like I'm getting hit.It looks like it's out.But I mean, I don't have special skin.able to see punches and And roll with them and roll with punches if you watch my foot, you know fights frame by frame I'm not getting hit for the most part you're moving with the punches.

Yeah.Yeah be like water like I'm I'm constantly you know and intuitively making these But calculations, that's the scoring that when you see that, I don't know who's counting that, but that's like amateur boxing, amateur boxing.

If the white glove touches you in the face, even if it's not a clean blow, that's considered a that's how you judge.Yes.And that that's where just that I think where you look at it from a point system, you can't just look at the screen.And that's why Ican't look at a screen and go, oh, this guy landed more.This is who won.

You had the damaging blows.I think everybody knows that like I get it.Like I see the way you roll a shot I see the way that you fade off.Yeah, and allow the shot not to go through your skull and Deflect it you're still gets touched to you.So it's considered that they landed that shot but the damage is like what you do to people by the way that you hit through that you drive through people is so different like they Justin hits and Unlike any he's still I still think to this day We got to ask us UFC, but they did a test on him to see who has the hardest bones of the UFC He he had the hardest book dude.He kicks me and I'm just like dude.

I I'm so glad I feel so bad for Luke He has his pad on I kick him and his his nuts swell up dude.

I get blue balls, bro I talked to a doctor about it because I'm like bro like he kicks people and they bruise on the inside of their leg and it's because the shock through but there's a nerve on the inside of leg I I'd go home and I'd tell my wife, I'm like, babe, I got fucking blue balls.She's like, from who?

And I'm like, Justin.

She looks at me like, the fuck you got blue balls from Justin for?One of the things you were doing early in your career that I always thought was so wild was you were leg kicking people from a collar tie.Like you were a leg kick.I was like, oh my goodness.I'm like, no one's doing that Like you were one of the only guys that I saw that was doing that that was from the clinch was leg kicking You've got some fucking flexible hips man Because the way you're able to do that from like right in tight like this and then and not just you pull the leg out Yeah, he pulls them to their legs So he's making a base on that knee and then it's just like you got a stump in the ground You're just trying to bend that tree.Yeah, he's very good at that.

Let me tell you something about Luke Cuz I got into the octagon at right after you won and Luke and I looked at each other.He was like He was so happyHe's the best.It was amazing because seeing all those videos and knowing he's in camp with you all the time and knowing how much he loves you.Watching the happiness that he had when you won was fucking incredible.

No, Luke is one of my really really good friends.Pukes every time before a fight.Every time.Before Trevor was in my corner, Luke cornered me.He used to go To Arizona with me. I had no coaches.I would just do it in between, you know, in between wrestling seasons.

And yeah, he would go down there with me and just wrap my hands and he would just be there.

Wow.He's amazing.One of the best human beings on Earth.

Yeah, I love that man.

Hey, do you tell him about the Sunday?So the Sunday before the fight?So there was one time, I think it was in the Cowboy fight.where you were pummeling with Ben, and he'd finish with a low kick on Ben every time, and I'm like, stop kicking your coach.And he looks at me, he's like, Trevor, he used to drag me back on the mats, he's like, I'm gonna kick.I was like, all right, cool.

You guys got that?Give me this opportunity to beat his ass.

So we go golfing, Joe, and I'm out.

Sunday we go golfing, Sunday before the fight, we get there Saturday, we go golfing Sunday, and it's a Sunday, we never work out on Sundays, and Trevor, not Trevor, Luke and Ben got fucking pickled on the golf course.They each had like three very very very stiff Buddy Mary's.Luke bought like 12 beers because we got there and they're like hey everything's on the president and he's like fuck yeah I've never heard that before everything's on the president I'm gonna drink and so like whole 10 or 11 Trevor's like let's fuck with them let's tell them that we're gonna work out later.

Well we're gonna work out but I'm telling them they're gonna be the workout.

I didn't know we were working out.We're out there golfing.It's hot as shit.I'm sweating my ass off.I had no idea we were working out that day He's like, let's fuck with them.Let's tell them that we're gonna work out.

All right, cool So I told him I was gonna text him and give the workout cuz I'll get I'll lay out the workout for everybody and I told Luke he was gonna go three rounds of sparring a full -on sparring and then Ben's got to go 40 minutes straightNo breaks Just grappling not wrestling just grappling there fuck dude, and I told Justin it I was like, all right, let's fuck what to see how he is it dude instantly before I didn't text it We just started talking about it.So we're on the way home driving home and dude Ben is like dude.He's like He's like, I'll just take you down.And he's like, I asked him how many times you can take him down as many as I want.

40 minutes.So they went 22.

You got what?Seven submissions on your coach.He drug him back on the mat.It was so funny because I was like, dude, you got to drag it back up the mask because I got to witness this.

It's funny because I got a video.So we get home.I go, I go down, take a nap for like two hours and they just stay drinking.My YouTube guy filmed everything and they're just talking so much.

Luke was good though.

Luke was like, he was a fan of it.Yeah, Luke's been through it, man.Luke's like, you're really gonna say that?Yeah, Luke's like, hey, I ain't saying any of this.Not me, it's him.But they're making a plan how they're gonna team up on me.

And so, it's funny, then he got that video there, and I'm beating Ben's ass.No, actually, I went with Luke first, and I was fucking him up.

And Luke's punching Ben because Ben won't jump in.

Yeah, so Ben's like, he's like, what the fuck, Ben?What the fuck, Ben?Now's the time.And he's asking for help, asking for help, I beat his ass, and then I did it.We had fun, for sure.It was great.

Great coaches.Our whole team is just, everybody's so dialed in.

Yeah, that whole week is one of my, every time we go, that whole week is one of my favorite experiences.

You were using the sauna in between workouts as well.And before.

Nothing, that shit sucked.I say it was perfect, you say it was perfect, it was not.It was detrimental to our sizes.Yes.Yeah, the humidity was there.I didn't realize it because obviously it's not you know It's not something I can worry about right now, but after round one.

I just remember thinking oh fuck I am so tired right now.How how is this possible and the amount of the amount of fluid?I lost thank God.It was probably lost like yeah, it was in the 70s dude.Yeah 70s with the cool breezeYou know when you go out there what you feel is that the cool breeze, but just heavier though in the fight, man Yeah, it was different.

Yeah, I hated the fact that it was gonna happen, but I'm glad it did I'm again.

I would not change again.I think how could you change it affects me it affects him?You know again.I grew up in the country.He's He's a city boy.There's no way he's not a city boy.

I don't know him personally, but there's no way he's not a city boy.You know, and so as a country boy from the desert in Arizona, like I was hoping that it would be.Hot as fuck.Hot as fuck, yeah.

When he sat down at the stool, I was like, oh God, these outside fights kill me.Yeah.You know, he was, dude, he was sweating so bad.Yeah, after round one, dude, he was shaking.Dude, he was like trembling.I was like, holy shit.

Well, it is crazy to ask people to defend a world title in a completely alien environment that you never have fights in.We've had, how many fights outside?We've had the Abu Dhabi fight in like, what was that, 2000 and fucking nine or something like that?

Yeah, 485.No, they did, didn't die.What was the setting, I wasn't there, when Adesanya did his famous walkout in like a, it was covered, but it was, it seemed like the environment was outside.

Or you're getting against that.In Abu Dhabi.

In Abu Dhabi.

Well, we did one in Abu Dhabi when BJ.The big arena.Lost to Frankie Edgar.That was outside in Abu Dhabi.And that was when Anderson Silva fought Damian Mayan.Is that with that Ferrari building?

The Ferrari building was there, but I don't know if it was in the same place.

Did they have a fight in the Ferrari building?

I think they did, but I wasn't there for that one.I only went to one of the Abu Dhabi fights.

Yeah, it wasn't that long ago.I would say within the last seven years.

Remember the dude in Morocco said after the first round he was done, he was just trying to survive?He said it was so hot, remember?

Yeah, I mean, I remember it being over there, and then once you realize the climate over there and the humidity, it's like, do you

remember a fucking dog remember a bow dog fight?They had they had a fight outside in the Sun.

Yeah on the beach Caesar Palace in Vegas never Caesar's Palace.They the boxing we got to fight their Vernal Phillips again Yeah, that's right.

They still always do it outside world shoes are fighting Around the NASCAR event?

Yeah, that was crazy.Duran vs. Hearns.

Duran vs. Hearns was outside.They were great, yeah.That's true, that's right.At least Vegas is dry.

Yeah, yeah.Totally.Arizona, Vegas, Colorado.

Yeah, humidity was what I was training for with him, was heat stroke.Like, dealing with it where you can't breathe, it's heavy air.

So were you putting water on the rocks in the sauna as well?

Oh, absolutely, absolutely.And we trained in a hotter gym.I'd turn the temperature up in the gyms just so he's getting used to dealing with a little bit more heat stroke.

We would spike my heart rate.And then I would go in the sauna for 15 minutes, and then I would come out and do 8 to 10 rounds.

That was great.I'm so glad we did it.Very smart.Very smart.Because that environment, I mean, it's so completely different.Ultimately, I think the best way to fight is obviously the way you usually find a controlled environment Yeah, that's how it should it was cool though.

Joe.You know why so cool.So we did a rehearsal Okay, and I'm like why are we rehearsing a walkthrough like it ain't a freaking wedding like just tell us where to go The camera guys are always like all right your mark here.I'm following every so why are we doing this and then we go there and we get stuck in this locker room for Two hours.Hour, hour and a half.Because of rain.

And thank God that happened, because then I started to go, oh.Because it's all unexpected.And how Iliad said, hey, I'm a visualizer.I can't visualize this arena.And I visualize a lot, too.So I was like, I felt the exact same thing when he said that.

And that's when I knew, hey, these are going to be some huge unknowns.And I had told him that night, because the rain was coming.It was crazy how the storm split around, because it was all bright red.I was like, this is going to be crazy.

They just and they were talking about pushing the fight to 10 30 p .m.m.

We had planned our fighting at the night But that's what was cool like the walkout like having the soldiers like did just walking through the soldiers there was that that We weren't able to take any of this in Joe, and I can't really speak for him.I don't wear his mindset I couldn't from a coach's standpoint I was nervous as fuck because you don't know there's no pattern I could take on right now and kind of put myself and breathe to it It was very unique and at the end.I couldn't even really smile was just like dude.I'm just like wow Blown away now.I can kind of just look around slowly and just try to take in everything because it was very very hard to to Go through that scenario with the pressure of us fighting on on this stage at the White House We're the Americans.We're a six -to -one underdog that gets to you that that you know when you hear that over and over and over No, it's you know, you can do you you got one you caught a marlin but at having a Left just that scenario was so unique and then once it was over then it was like now I get to enjoy The White House and just being here in this this this look at that.

I'm it there.You can see it What does he mean there is that the Declaration of Independence?

Yeah, so we weren't in the room with him right there.We through the the rehearsal.

Yeah crazy He's in the Oval Office Stepping out and then all the soldiers walking through so cool like having the two guys next to him and a lot of people complained about About this happening at the white house, but do you don't think this is cool?

This is like how could you not like this?How could anyone not this shouldn't be taking place?

What the fuck?

Life is a fight world is a fight like incredible to watch inspirational.

It's a wild thing to watch by the wayhow much gold did Trump put on those walls?

Look, he's got gold everywhere.Look at these fucking gold designs.When we were at the Oval Office, first thing I said is, I was like, this thing is small as hell.When I see it on pictures, it seems so big.But the gold pieces on the wall is the first thing I was like, they dust that shit every day because, dude, it was so clean.Well, he put that up there.

None of that was there.None of that was there.

He was explaining it to me.There was no gold.I wanted to have gold.He's got a gold cherub, like a solid gold cherub that's above one of the doors.He goes, if Putin comes, hopefully it doesn't fall on his head.It's like he's got gold everywhere.

It's all him.He redesigned a bunch of the things.You know, he's a builder, right?So that's why he wanted to do the ballroom.That's why he wanted to keep it.You know, he likes everything in gold.

He's a gold guy.What was that, Austin Powers?We were just watching you look at the Declaration of Independence before you walked out, which is also wild.This is never going to happen again.This is more historic than Rumble in the Jungle.Think about all the great fights that we've all watched as kids that were like, remember that?

This tops everything, because of the scene, because of the fact that not only is it at the White House, but the American, who's a 6 -1 on some books underdog, pulls it off in spectacular fashion.And just the seesaw of the fight, too.

Back and forth.

The back and forth of the fight was fucking huge because the second round was crazy.

It was like, oh no, he's letting it go on again.When, when it's our corner, all the coaches were like, dude, they're going to stop it.And I was said out loud.I was like, please let it go on.And I just wanted to finish like a definitive ending dude.Cause that would have been a point where it's like, especially with him going, Hey, I want to go and continue.

And then we have got her come out and say, Hey, you are God for Mark Goddard.

Okay.Cause if it wasn't for Mark Goddard, if another less experienced referee, You think he did?

He wanted out.Yeah?You know for a fact, you do not ever as a fighter say, I cannot see.It's over.And he was counting on that.He said he had already stated it.

He didn't need to say it again.He did not think there was, I don't think he thought there was.

So you think that he called Goddard a turkey internally.He was like, when he said, oh, you're going to go fight, he was like, hey, I was playing.

In that moment, he just like, I've done, you know, I've tried and it might have been like, you know, the little devil on his shoulder trying to get him out.And then he re -evaluated and re -thunk it and understood that he had to keep fighting.Did you say thunk?

Thunk it?

Re -thunk it.I stopped him twice.I stopped him twice that night.There's no doubt about it.I loved it.I loved it.

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It's a powerful tool built for serious off -roaders.Try OnX OffRoad for 50 % off.Go to onxmaps .com slash Joe Rogan.well it was um it was a big factor that goddard let it go on because then we got to see that epic fourth round which is fucking crazy which was just in the end when you landed that knee the body that was like the finalYeah, and then then he has to quit on a stool and if Goddard had just given to that referee or that judges or the the doctors rather desires Here it is. I love how you punch right here right on the spot.

Yeah.Oh, right.

Oh, right where I just lay out.Yeah, he did not like that And that was the end.Crazy fight.

I mean, it's crazy how different.So again, being a fan of the sport, I've got to watch, you know, I would have usually watched this from, and yeah, it would have been the most fucking incredible thing ever.Being the fighter, you know, you really not appreciating any of that because you're so locked into, It's like golfing, like you don't know, but golfing is like certain swing thoughts, you know, and nothing else can come in, nothing can creep in.And so me looking at the Declaration of Independence, I was looking at it, but I didn't.I didn't take it in as this being the declaration.I was just sitting there, I was like, OK, got to reset his feet, got to control, got to move left, got to move left, can't get against the fence.

And then those are the thoughts I'm having through the whole walkout.And so I'm really not taking any of it in as the show or as the theatrics of it.Of course not.Watching it in hindsight, obviously, it's fucking awesome.

There was something special about you warming up with the American flag around your shoulder, too.We were watching that.There was something special about watching you shadowbox before all this with the American flag on.I was like, if he wins...Good lord if he wins tonight, it's gonna be fucking insane and it was is the the feeling of like joy throughout the building throughout the grounds like the happiness that everybody had seen Had been there to see such an incredible event and such an amazingcap to that event with your fight It was just nuts.

It felt like a whole arena to me It was crazy for the amount of people that you could see here.It is to the White House Hey, tell me tell me what was it tell me there?

What would you use Newton's law Newton's first law object in motion needs to stay I just stay in motion stay in motion Look at the size of that fucking crowd that was outside You could see this crowd like I couldn't see this crowd, but you know what?

Oh, yeah Hear them and you could feel them dude.You could feel the energy I mean even though there was only 4 ,000 people did not did not feel like 4 ,000 people it felt like a hundred thousand people because all those people were behind us You know was how many people were in that point 85 ,000 plus yeah, I'm so fast the the size of the group outside was insane Yeah, I mean, and they're watching on these giant screens and freaking out like a concert Yeah, we're out the way is it was like dude That's what I picture like Woodstock being like dude.I looked and I could not see the end of the be yeah No, it was not the Wayans were nuts when we first walked out of like holy shit This is crazy, but it just shows how hyped people were for this event You know I mean it was an incredible event.I mean the UFC production team They just knocked it out of the park and then more importantly You knocked it out of the park.

It could not have gone better.

It couldn't have gone better.And the most important thing was that you did have to overcome, that we did see a real back and forth.And we did see the skills that led people to believe that this guy is the number one pound for pound fighter in the world.I mean, his fucking boxing is elite.It is slick.

But I mean, my coach is a fucking genius.I mean, when it comes to like, again, it's really hard to, you always sound right in hindsight, but the strategy we had.was so perfect to fight a guy like that I mean if you I think if you ask him right now which way was Justin moving he's gonna think I was moving right the whole time because my head is so so heavy and I lean over to that side but I was moving left the entire time.And he's so pointed that he's powerful here, but when you put him here, nobody can push and sprint.He's not ever going to take off sprinting that way as fast as he can.He's going to have to gather and reset and then point and then go.

And I constantly kept readjusting him.And it was so subtle.And that's what fighting is, is subtle movements.his game plan was, and then his game plan, his mind, my ability, but really it's my athletic ability.Like if people don't understand how athletic I am, and I think that is what surprises every opponent I've ever fought is how, you know, herky -jerky, twitchy, how explosive and how athletic I am.And I think that's the biggest asset that I have.

Why do you think anybody would be surprised by that at this stage?Why do you think they're surprised?

Because it doesn't look like that.

Justin, I think you're looking into the Patty fight.I feel like the Patty fight, because a lot of people were like, oh, you look older, you look this, because of the way we fought.Our game plan was Patty fight.

How sweet is that now?I mean, if you watched the Patty fight, you would only expect punches coming from here.That's all I threw.

Because he would pull with his body.

I had to wrangle him in.Wrangle him in.And this guy, no shot came here.Palm strikes.

We need to palm strike him.We need to keep him inside of our loop.And if he's throwing straight shots at Patty, Patty will disengage very long with his upper body.So he was throwing wild shots.and then long uppercuts like stay on the outside when you're throwing uppercuts because Patti's got very good knees coming in so we can't get too deep with that very simple plan, but also it was like make it chaotic as most chaotic as you could be To be able to do that because Patti his blitzing was very fast.He's a very good blitzer He'll blitz past you and almost like running type of punches like old Vitor Belfort But this fight is a lot different where it's now elbows in We have to be tight in these types of positions.

And we need to step to his center and get on his back foot line or outside of his back foot line.And that was like a key factor to this one is because Ilya is very front heavy and will bounce back and forth.So once he goes to this angle, we need to attack the rear shoulder.And once he starts to reset, now we're going to be able to jab and stick the jab at the rear shoulder where your jab was landing.That's my favorite part is the jab wasn't landing here where Ilya's got a very good slide.We're jabbing outside.

So you're not doing inside jab coming under.You're jabbing from outside.your shoulder, which is pushing him on his rear foot.And then once we started to pressure, my favorite part is the jab, pause, right hand, his left foot, Justin's left foot, when we go, has to be outside his rear foot, like right there.He opened his lead foot and he got his foot outside.And that's also so in case the right hand counter comes.

That was a giant moment in the fight.Dude, the sound of it was crazy.Oh, that was such a hard shot.Do that one more time, Jamie, and watch his lead foot after the jab.Now watch his left foot.After the jab, outside the rear foot, boom.

And now, because he's got a high shoulder, if I'm throwing a right hand down this point, if you were looking at me, Joe, if I'm here, if he gets his foot out, now the shot is coming from here.So we're able to put him on the back foot and find that, because he's got a very good shoulder tuck.

He also dropped that right hand down.Yeah.It was beautiful.It was beautiful.And it was such a giant moment in the fight.

Like, look where I started.I started with my back to his, and look how I left, left.left, left, left.

But if you go out to the left, backwards, that's where Iliot, to me, is the best.How we stop Volk, where he'll throw at you, and then you go, and then he readjusts his lead shoulder almost to a salpa.Super dangerous there.That was one thing we talked about.We cannot go backwards to the left, because that's where we get square, and Iliot, dude, he's very front -heavy, so he will attack you quick.And he gets there fast.

Well, if he can recover from this, it's going to be a big lesson.A big lesson learned.You know, I wonder if he'll still have those celebration dinners the night before.

There's no way.He better not.Dude, his team, that's up to his coaches, to be honest with you.

It's amazing.Hubris is an amazing thing.People love that kind of confidence.They love that belief in themselves.And when someone pulls it off, people were talking for days about the Oliveira fight.

You know, he celebrated the night before.Isn't that crazy?And it worked that time.

And it played out great for him.But the lack of experience being the nail.So much experience being the hammer.It's just the expectations.

He never thought he would have to be here.

But you keep saying, I wanted to go back to this thing that you said that people don't think you're athletic.And I don't agree with that.I don't understand why you think that.I mean, maybe he watches the Michael Johnson fight and doesn't think you're athletic.

I got to college, you know, my freshman year of college, and I did a cartwheel to a backflip.And these guys, one guy was like, I would have never fucking guessed you could do some shit like that.Like, I just don't.Understand, you know, if you look at me, I don't look like an athlete, but dude you want I don't worry.No, I Perception no, no, no your perceptions crazy.

Listen, you look like an athlete.What the fuck are you talking?

He he said he sent me in this picture when I first met him from he went up to do a Clinic with his coach up in Californiawith Ben Charrington, and he sends me this video.I don't know why I opened it up.And he's got a soccer ball, and he's in this auditorium with the pads down on the ground, and he's got his phone set up on the pads that are against the wall.He throws a soccer ball up in the air, and he does one of those bicycle kicks.He played just like one or two years of soccer.

He did a bicycle kick, landed on his feet, and the ball knocked the phone off the freaking thing, dude.He hit the freaking phone.It was the coolest thing I've ever seen.I was like, bro, you are nuts.This guy's snowboarding when we used to snowboard, because I rode professional when I was younger.Got taken out of high school for it.

This dude, he would catch things so fast and his tumbling, there was one time we were watching him and he was in moguls and moguls talk on a snowboard.He does this 360, catches his edge, falls to his back and bounces off one of the moguls to a backflip right back into the moguls and do these people on the side thought he meant to do that shit.They're like, dude.

I was like, bro, his tumbling skills, dude, you're freaking nuts.You are an athlete.I think everybody knows you're an athlete.Well, you're not built like Paulo Costa, if that's what you mean.

Yeah.

You know, it's like you're not.You know there's there's guys that have less body fat than you and guys have more prominent muscles than you But nobody looks at you fighting and doesn't think you're athletic.That's crazy.I think it's the experts after the patty fight saying He looks sloppy and those fights got to be sloppy those people are retarded yeah that fight that you like like chaos look like you were gonna press him and you it also looked like you were kind of disdainful of His his ability to hurt you there.You know exactly yeah once once I didn't respect his powers like I'm fucking walking through yeah, and that's what it looked like it looked like you were just just Trying to make it as chaotic as you make it sound like you had like a water boy like someone was like the water sucks No, you don't know you but that's also probably a good thing that you think about yourself that wayyou know because it forces you to Rise above and beyond anybody's expectations of you You know and I think one of the things about this fight that makes it so important is because Ilya was so dangerous You had to get like deep in this you couldn't have a moment like the max fight you could what the max fight got me here without that I would have never been as hungry I said it was gonna happen and it didn't happen, didn't happen, didn't happen.

Then it happened and it's like, okay, now I can never let my parents see me like that again.That was a driving factor, like I can never let my mom.I remember getting knocked out.I don't remember getting knocked out.I got knocked out.I don't remember anything.

I don't remember him getting his hand raised.And it had to have been 40 minutes to an hour.And then I just, my first recollection is being in the ambulance and seeing my mom's face.

Can I tell you that?Can I tell that story?

Yeah, yeah.Tell me what I did, because I still don't know.

So we're in the ambulance, okay?Your mom standing outside the back doors, and we're waiting for the driver There's a medic in there with us, but he's good, but he keeps asking the same question over and over I'm worried about like you know everybody's parents are different on how they react you know and His mom was just cool.Just like I was so impressed I was so impressed with her just spirit of seeing that happen, but just as laying there, and he's like I He's cool in everything he does.So he's got like this cool like lay, like he's like, you know, just got stopped and he's laying there and he's like, he'll look at me and he gets like his head.He's like, I got knocked out.And I was like, yeah, it's like, what round?

What round?And I said, last second of the fight.And he goes, good for him.Dude, I'm telling you, like two minutes ago by and we'd just be having normal conversation.And he'd look at me, I get knocked out.And I was like, yep, dude, it happened over and over again.

but him saying good for him the way he said it every time that he came back to it like That's the type of person Justin is like if he losing competition The better man won that night and that to me is something that stands out to me That's character character of him saying when he does it that that's subconscious traits that you have That character is also the character that allows you to reach your full potential Absolutely because you're not being held back by any bullshit ego things not fake because there's a lot of people that are held back as good as they are They don't ever reach their full potential because they have some bullshit ego problem.

Absolutely.They care of what?Everybody thinks and that in that situation losing that fight in the last second of the last round and having that reaction That is the truest test of character that a man is ever gonna go through Yeah, that is true a test of character ever in front of the whole world what I remember first to see my mom's face So I saw her face and I saw no concern.

I just she was worried about me, but she was not concerned She wasn't freaked out.No, she wasn't freaked out at all.I was like And that's when I never reset and asked if I had gotten knocked out again after that moment, I don't think.

No, no, it happened for probably, I'd say you probably asked it six or seven times, and then we were cool for probably five minutes before we went to the hospital, and then you were totally cool.The cool part about this, Joe, is those are some of my, and it sucks because he's taking a shot like this, but me as a coach and as someone that just loves fighting and loves the inspiration and what these guys do is, Those are my proudest moments winning a fight like this.It was proud and and and you know, take it in you're going Wow, this is a cool spot to be in and you have to be grateful for it, but there's times where I'm caught smiling when my fighters are down like when when tomorrow got kicked and I stood next to him with the biggest smile just because I'm like dude you went out on your shield you were likeso good, and this is the way you stand up again So important to me Justin Salas one time with Tim means it was one of my proudest moments Just to see his his subconscious like I love the mindset hard knee do Tim means hits him with the knee and he fights through it a little bit and takes another knee and he goes down and he's on the ground and his right leg is still like moving and he's like still punching and he's out and And I'm like, dude, that's a fighting spirit.There is no quitting.You're fighting through being knocked out.

And subconsciously, he's still in the fight, and his body is still reacting that way, instead of shelling up and being like, I just got rocked, I'm gonna shell up.I could not wait to get in the octagon, and they're not trying to let me in.I'm like, let me just get over to him and sit next to him and put some ice on the back.When we stop guys, I'm always over to the other opponent first.To me, that's the coolest part, is being able to see someone go out there and do their best, to watch them come back.And that's why I'm very excited to kind of see what happens with Ilya.

This is going to be a hard one to overcome, but I hope he does because he's he's he's that talented.If he takes the right lessons, that's going to be a super inspirational thing to overcome.It's going to be hard.But I sure hope we get to witness that.

I wonder if he's going to stay at 155.There are big guys at 155.And he wasn't that big for 45.You think about weight cutting in the modern era.You're considerably bigger than him.When you guys were standing next to each other, there's a big difference in frame.

I've also really focused on getting bigger the last three or four fights.

Yeah?

Yeah.You were 83 in a paddy fight.183 in a paddy fight, so he was big.I touched 80s this fight.We weighed in on Saturday at 11.Saturday when I went to bed, I think I was 184.

Oh, wow.And then I think when I woke up, I was like 176.That's how much we're floating.It's crazy.Our bodies are crazy.Right, especially my body.

the weight cutting, right?

But I think when I got there, I was pissing so much.I was actually too hydrated for the drug test, so I had to piss three times.I couldn't drink water.

You were too hydrated for a drug test?

How's that work?Yeah, so if the piss is too diluted, then they make you do it again.Really?Yeah.

That's why, you know, doing it after a fight, they used to do it after the fight all the time.They do like a gravity test.Your adrenaline's gone, so you don't pee, so it takes a long time.It's like, we've sat in locker rooms for hours waiting for the piss test.But when you're doing it after, like, rehydration, that's a shitty thing, because these guys have to hydrate.Everybody's fucking taking as much fluids as they can, so that makes it tough.

But with the weight -cutting piece, with him going back down, I agree with you.I think Ilya's a smaller body, but he's also a big advantage for Ilya's speed.And when you go up in weight, that speed is a huge factor.If you see a lot of guys go up, like with Max, Max kept his speed when he came up.When he went back down, I think everybody was like, oh, he beat Max.He beat a drained Max.

Yeah, I think that weight cut down to 45 for him was brutal.And this is where, from a coaching standpoint, if it is hard for you to make it at that weight, I care about the longevity of a person and I've seen guys get dropped with jabs because of bad weight cuts Yes, and that going back down and that's to me the scariest part in this in this this fight game Well, I think there's two things we have to change the fight game One of them is weight cutting and two of them is your gloves But the weight cutting thing don't you think that we need more weight classes I I should say I should say do you think we know I think there's there's there's many ways I think you're gonna have to have some type of a weight class and There's different ways to do it like maybe you you have where you can't go over a certain amount of weight after you make weight And you weigh in a week out where you can really recover because I think guys are gonna do it anyway I think for me. I want nothing more

change.I mean, we are grown -ass men and women, and...

We're making these choices right, but you can make 55, and it's good for your frame now imagine How hard it is for me to make 55 sure it's hard no no no I'm not thinking it's easy, but you can't make it you've made it over and over and over again But like think about guys that are in between yeah like should be a 60 60 or 65 or like in boxing 70 to 85 is crazy 85 to 205 is bananas and then Those are already watered down In a way, and so you're just gonna water it down more.

So these are my thoughts and my research that I've done that that it's it's I've talked to dr. D about it And I want to get some expert some doctor who can actually talk to me about this because when I started researching boxing Why is there so many deaths in boxing?What stood out to me?Was almost every death in boxing in the last 10 to 15 years There's every once in a while.It's from a punch where they get dropped and they don't get up and they get hemorrhaging.Almost all of them are past the ninth round, especially the ones I'm talking about that don't take a punch.They're past the ninth round and it looks like they start to get tired and they're just like, hey, I need to take a knee and lay down.

A lot of these guys are winning the fight and not even taking a lot of damage.And if we're cutting weight the day before, you're teaching your body to sweat and sweat and sweat.To me, I believe because I've had a fighter, uh, where, you know, come on his last, uh, fight, we were crapping so bad, so scary, so fricking scary.I was within like, like minutes of calling.I talked to the whole team about it.But if you dehydrate yourself, think of my lips.

If they get dehydrated, they crack when I smile.And if you dehydrate your brain and I had talked to Dr. D, I was like, could that be something?If you dehydrate your brain would cause something.He's like, absolutely.And then I started to research it.But if you go back and look at all the boxers, and if we can get someone that could do their true research that understands this stuff, that to me is like what scares me about weight cutting.

Because you're training your body to lose that amount of weight, and when you start to do things in patterns, you just took all the nutrients out of your body, and then you're going hard in a fight like that.And that was like the big thing with the Tony Ferguson fight that's kind of funny now, but it wasn't funny to me. I didn't give no fucking water for a five round fight.That is crazy, and the longer you take your brain to that point of dehydration, that's a scary thing.Why didn't you give him water?You just forgot?Dude.

Yeah, we were locked in.This guy don't train with water, so it was like, dude.Yeah, I don't drink water.

I don't drink water practice, because everyone's like, you want water?I'm like, water's for pussies.

No, I don't want water.Talk about the mindset.You don't drink any water in training at all?He'll drink afterwards.Like, we did this fight.They made me this fight.

Okay, so do you think that that just helps your mental?

Luke is my water boy.

No, because I it doesn't it can't because I'm fucking working right now.I'm locked in like I might not get water one day You know there might I might want water even when you're doing strength conditioning everything nothing.

I never drink water Wow, so you make sure you're hydrated before you get in there.I drink a lot after And but once you're in there you just going yeah, this fight was different, but yeah, it's crazy You know Ramadan's nuts like you know I know Bilal was training with no water and you know drinking no water during the day and then training again at nighttime and You know that's that's got to be so hard, but going through hard training sessions and no water so you do it, but So there's two things going on.One, I would think maybe you could do more work and get more reps and more of this if you're rehydrating.But then the other thing is like, would you?And how much mental toughness are you getting by not giving yourself water, right?It's a crutch.

And the mental toughness thing ultimately won you this fight.There is a lot of fucking human beings at the top level of the sport that would have folded in that second round.

You did look the happiest at the Tony Ferguson fight.

That look you gave me when you had the water?I never contemplated it.

Not once.Not for one second did I contemplate that I was done.Of course.

No, I mean, that's how you fight.You hear me?I was like, oh, fuck!

He goes dude that was a good body shot, I was like yeah, that was a sweet body shot Who does that I know who sits down is like to did the look on his face wasn't like like eyebrows I could like a frame cabin well even after the fight you were talking about how skilled he was you were talking I mean I Could go I could go so many different ways with how I react in this fight.

I just want it to be known that how disrespectful he would have been if he beat me.If he put me to sleep, if his, I mean, can you imagine how shitty he would have been?And I mean, it would have, it was his persona, and the world would have been fucking shitting on me. I was fighting for so much.I was fighting for so much that night.You know, I'm never gonna let people, for one, I know how special what I've done is, and it would have taken all of it away with the loss.And I wasn't gonna let that happen.

How about the people calling him his loaded gloves?Do you see the picture, the image?There's like rocks in his hands.People are so stupid.What?So funny.

People are so stupid.What a compliment.Have they not watched any of his fights?Yeah.

People saying I'm juice, what a compliment.People saying I got bricks in my fucking gloves, what a compliment.You can't read the internet there's always gonna be someone saying something I know but again you go I got here cuz I was petty I Read comments I read comments They fuel you they do they do I've told him not to

do it because it I'm like bro this fucks with so many people just we had a conversation outside I guess it'll cause your mind to go crazy, and he's like I love it so much David Goggins takes haters, and he records them on a loop and then plays it to himself while he runs Yeah, I mean, that's crazy.

I don't need I don't need I don't need to have it on video I know I know what they're saying.I knew what they were saying every fucking day right and that's you know partly why one well It's you know that Teddy Roosevelt quote about the man in the arena.

You know yep.

That's what it is It's like there's always gonna be people on the sidelines or talking It's impossible especially at that level that you're fighting as ambitious as you are you can never make everybody happy No, that's why it's hard to be a champion which sucks the pressure.You know it really is detrimental to like overall like what you're trying to achieve And it's just so hard.

Well, you can't make everybody happy because some people are just not happy, period.It's like you being awesome is going to make them happy.

Yeah, but some people are not.They're not healthy.

They're not mentally healthy their brain isn't right They haven't done the right things in their life, and they see success as being somehow or another It steals their own personal joy other people's success is bad because they compare themselves to other people and they realize that they saw I love seeing things have good things happen for people like Because when max knocked me I was like good for him like I'm fucking imagine what he's feeling right now Yeah, but because you have given everything you have you you've done Truly maximized your potential you've made mistakes You've made great decisions and ultimately you wound up winning the biggest fight of all time now to exceed But that's that's why you can be happy for other people to exceed your expectations from 2017 to exceed his expectations from 2011 to exceed my own expectations

I mean, I cannot describe how special and how good that makes me feel, you know, in general.Like, that was my goal, was to exceed expectations.

You didn't exceed them, man. I always had a feeling that you were going to do some wild shit.And after the Tony Ferguson fight...

You couldn't have said I was going to do this.

No one could have frickin' said this, dude.Listen, there was a lot of conversations that I had with people that were counting you out that was like, I think he can win this fight 100%.I mean, I said it on the podcast.I even said it to Ilya.Like, Ilya was saying it was going to be easy.

I've seen that podcast, and he was so wrong.So many times, you know, not just the whole he has zero chance against Paddy.He said something about how I Probably sleep during the day more than I do at night because I party too much It's like you were so you don't remember him saying that he said he said something about weed and you're like, I don't care about weed But for him to think that that's true is fucking insane and you have five looses To think that I got here by just being a guy that drinks and You know has fun all the time like that's fucking crazy.My life is so boring.I don't go to bars.I don't do any of that.

I sleep.I sleep eight to 10 hours every single night.I was sleeping 10 but it's too much.So now I have to sleep eight.But for this whole week I was sleeping 12 hours every single night of the fight week.

That's nice.

It was so fucking nice.

That is nice.You know it's just one of those things if you wanted to watch your you have a YouTube channel.He could watch.

Well, I mean, there's also something to be said about how I knew he was watching.If you go back to my other, like, we'll always show sparring.We'll always show me hitting mitts.I didn't show myself hitting mitts one time in this camp.I didn't show myself sparring one time in this camp.camp.

Purposely.We were switching up the game plan big time.

Like the tight punches, high hands.He had expectations but none of them were based in reality.And I controlled that.

That's awesome.

So smart.When I did make the comment about his wife, it was in an interview like this where we were just fucking around and I said it in jest.Yeah, it was 100 % true.I was like, he's so fucking annoying.I couldn't imagine being in the same room with him, you know, with his pompous attitude, you know, and you just trying to like hang out with the guy, but he's like constantly stealing all the thunder and it's irrational.And it's like, I would leave him too.

Like, I mean, if that's my part, like, that's why I broke up with my girlfriends is because they were somewhat like that.And so I didn't mean it in a mean way, like I would never dig at somebody and I would never make fun of someone's personal experience, but that was like, that was just my honest take.You are the honest guy.And I was joking, but.But it was true.You just say what you feel.

I said so many true things to him.I told him that he's gonna go to the second round, go to the third round, you're gonna be fucked because you're not gonna be able to pull yourself out of this.With the way that you're thinking, there's no possible way you can have these expectations, face adversity, and then come out in a positive way.There's no way it could happen.You could dig deep, and you could be even more of a narcissist than it might work, but you're gonna walk yourself into a situation that Is gonna fucking be detrimental to you and this is detrimental to his psyche and this is 90 % mental Well, so again, I want to see him.

We'll see how he adjusts to loss, but you know

don't see how honest he will be with himself.

The strategy has to change.You can't just hit the gas like that.And we've seen that with boxers.We've seen that with all kinds of fighters.They just think they can just hit the gas.

Well, obviously you had to make your own adjustments.Yeah.You know how he overcame the max fight?How?He adjusted.

Every day this guy got really good Yeah, DC was braving about it.He's like I never seen anything like it He goes this guy's playing golf like he's been playing for years.That's great.It's really good.It really funny It's well, you know, that's the mindset that's coachable.That's a coach and mindset competitive and also Objective, you know, it's the same reason why you think you're not athletic It's like you you could look at yourself in a critical way and then see what adjustments you have to make where a lot of people are delusional.

Yeah, and then Delusional keeps you from getting good at everything in life you perceive dude.

You got a perspective is everything Like how are you seeing things and you always got to see it from the internal not not spite that it peaks and valleys like this right here like We come home, and even through the airport, we're like, there's no celebration.It is what it is. I mean, afterwards, like, peaks, peaks will kill you.Isn't that crazy there's no celebration at the airport?What we did, someone was buying us drinks.Like, we got there, we got there a little bit early.It should have been a fucking parade.

I know, but I don't want that.I know.I know you don't.

I don't want that.

But I have to do it, because I do need to take advantage.Like, I am the champion.It's crazy.Still can't fathom it.But I am the champion, and I need to I need to be the champion and enjoy being the champion for a little bit.

And you need to look at yourself in the mirror and be like, there's times to sit back and have bliss where you're like, man, I freaking did it.Like there's times to really.

I thought that would come naturally.

mean you run down fucking yelling out different brands of mayonnaise with no motherfucking clothes I'm gonna make bad decisions.You're like.What was that bro shit?Then we did fucking three fists of fucking vodka Are you gonna continue fighting right now?

I'm planning on it.Yeah, cuz you were talking about There's not something natural in me that feels like it's over mmm, so that's all I can say also after a performance like that I'm in a place where it's like I deserve to be compensated for what I have done 100 % not for what I'm going to do or I don't I shouldn't have to fight next to be caught UFC 300 UFC 324 and now this those are the biggest stages that the UFC needed somebody to to do something phenomenal and they picked me every single time and And I delivered.I wasn't the main event of UFC 300, but co -main event still stole the show, even though I lost.And so I think I need to be compensated for what I've done.That's where I'm at.

So you're talking about in the future for like a next fight?Like...

Yeah, renegotiate, my friend.No, no, no, no.I'm not talking about for the next fight.I'm talking about the UFC should make a company and give me equity in that company.And, you know, so I can build, passive income like that, like, I'm not saying that's what - Have you talked to them about something like that?No, no, I would, I would, I've never asked, luckily I have a personal assistant now, so she asks for things for me, but I've never been the guy that asks for things.

I wish, I wish people that were opposite of me that asked for things and get all kinds of things, I wish I was given those things without asking, because obviously people know that it's appreciated and I like it, but I'm not ever gonna, like, I'm not taking this truck from fucking Armin.There's absolutely no way I would take this truck from Armin.never shook my hand.

Oh, this is Armin Saryukyan.We should explain that so Armin Saryukyan He he bet a million dollars on Justin's friend and won.He won like 5 -3 I believe.5 -7.5 -7?5 -7.

What kind of truck?Wow, now I just saw yours.

Get a Raptor.

I have a Shelby Raptor, but I think now that I've seen your truck, that will be my next truck.Also, it has USA on the side.Yeah.You see the rap?You didn't do that rap?Hennessy does that rap.

Hennessy's the shit.

I want that truck.

Oh, you need that truck.Yeah.

Tell Armin to buy you that fucking truck.No, I'm not taking that truck from him.

What the fuck?If I was Armin, I would force it down your throat.I would deliver it to your house and give you a hug.No way.You want him $5 ,700 ,000.

I didn't have to ride around in a fucking truck that a dude bought for me every day.I don't know.I just can't go there.

You won that truck.

We didn't shake on it.

He does not owe it to me. I don't give a fuck.Take that goddamn truck.I'm right there with you, Joe.Yeah, take the truck, dude.First of all, it's cool, and he might also be your next opponent.I mean, that's possible.

That's the guy.He is definitely the guy that's up for it.That's the guy.

I mean, if there's anybody else in the division, that is the guy.I mean, now that Islam is up at 170, who else is there?That's the guy.

I agree.

Yeah, and what a division.I mean, holy shit.And now Charles is saying he wants to fight you.PMF and the lightweight title on the line.That would be crazy.So there's fights available.

Yes, there is.Big, big.What are your thoughts?Like, when you're thinking about competing, who do you think it will be?You think it'll be Armin?

No.No?I can't say that I have a name.

Do you think Ily is going to try for a rematch?

No, he doesn't get a rematch.He can try, but he doesn't get one.Wow.He quit on the stool.He quit twice.I stopped him twice.

What else do I have to fucking do?Plus, his next challenge can't be me.He needs to fight Paddy or someone like that.Does Paddy have a fight scheduled?

I think he's fighting St. Denis.That's a tough fight.

Yeah.

Ben was a beast game.

Yeah fucking crazy game.

It's a crazy game.

It's the craziest game I mean by far think about where you were when you lost to max and then where you are now Just like think of the highs wasn't that long ago either was not that long ago now You got the the the BMF champ wanting to fight you I have every belt like I have three three belts three real belts two interims But those are fucking real belts mm -hmm a real belt a real belt The BMF belt and then the UFC 250 belt.

Yeah, the UFC 250 belt.No one's so cool, dude.There's only two of those out there.

Being a fan of this sport, you want to come in here and do things that are not easily attainable.And I've done a few things that are impossible to attain.Nine bonuses in my first seven fights.16 fights in the UFC, I probably, what?12 main events, at least 10 main events.And to be put in the main event of a UFC fight is fucking huge.

Like, you know, you go on the poster, not many people get to experience that, and I've done it almost every single time.And so, I mean, yeah, I've done something unattainable.

It's gotta feel good.

It feels great.It should.As a fan, it's awesome to have guys like you out there.As a fan, it feels good.

Right as a fan of yourself as a sport as a fan of the sport getting to see what you've done Yeah, what do you think about zero gone?

We didn't do so good to see it We're in the locker room like are you guys are gonna go to a different staging room as soon as Bruce Buffer starts announcing?So they took us into a room with noscreens That's probably where the video of me shadowboxing with the flag.Yeah We were in there for like 30 minutes before I walked and we could hear you know you a little bit you hear that I heard the ding of the you know the end of the round the horn I was like, okay, was that round one?Yes, and then you hear nothing and then I didn't even hear the finish.I didn't hear the crowd roar you couldn't hear the crowd and then I heard and Still yeah, right yep, cuz he was no no no I said I knew they were both gonna be new Still no, we're gone.

We heard gone.

Yeah, I was like oh fuck he won That guy moves like a cat.

It's it's crazy.He's for a heavyweight I love watching heavyweights that can move like they remember the Mike Tyson era just watching I was I love Mike watching Mike Tyson and just watching all the guys he fought and Heavyweight boxing was so good at that time.People used to jump rope.Now it's like, I'm not gonna say that all heavyweights are lazy, but you know, my knees are bad, I'm a big person.Those guys can move, and Cyril Gahan is one of those guys.He's so fast.

The thing about him is he started out as a basketball player.

So think about basketball.It's all these plyometrics.You're constantly changing direction and moving and jumping.Agility.Yes, it's all agility.And that translates so brilliantly to his striking style because you've got a guy who's 248 pounds who moves like a middleweight or moves like even lighter than that.

I mean, he really moves like a welterweight almost.He's fast and just very agile.And when you notice it is like because you know how good Pereira is and Pereira getting lit up on his feet like that and then drop with a jab.It's like whoo.

Yeah perfect time and it's heavyweights like those are big dudes.Yeah, it's like obviously prayers put on some weight, but it's frame size Yeah, it's you know and it prayers got a big frame, but it's there's levels your body's been Yeah, wait for a long period of time like that's again that consistency.It's a you knowMMA guy going into boxing.Yeah, they're shorter rounds.But you're hitting sprints every round like it's a different like there's there's you have to do it for a period of time to be Able to adjust to that that's a different.

It's everything that you do you have to slowly go into those positions You can't just jump into it and when you think about how big he was at 205 it maybe would have even been better for him to not really put on much weight I agree 100 % it's not like serial guns a grappler, and you got to be fast.Yeah, you got to be like your speeds a factor It's a giant factor, and he's got Insane power.I mean his power has always been heavy.He'll carry that power.Absolutely.

He's not gonna lose it He was so big he was 251 and I was thinking man now.It's like even though you have more power You're also moving around with extra weight on your body like you're you're weighed down more by gravity I mean, Gon looked so light and so loose.He's just, like, that style for a heavyweight, light on the toes like that is so unusual.And not allowing Pereira to set his feet.

No, never.Like, that's very smart.And even, like, feigning takedowns, it's not like he committed to those, but he's got them thinking about it.

Look at how he drops them with the fucking jab.

Brought him into it.

Now, here's the question, because one of the things that Pereira is saying is a lot of, there's an illegal shot.A lot of the shots were illegal into the back of the head.But a lot of them were to the side of the head.

Those are close.They're close.

And then the first one, they're also moving.When they explain it to you, it's a two -inch line down like a mohawk.

This whole apron right here.But it's like, this is legal.This is legal.Yeah, this is legal.This is illegal, legal, illegal.

I mean, a couple of those shots definitely landed illegally, but there's also hammer fist for sure.Did you see him drop his head down to the hips?Exactly.So you're moving, you know, that's legal.That's illegal.

There's a couple of illegal ones.There's probably three or four.

Right.But it's legal.movement and chaos.

It's not like he's trying deliberately.That's like poking someone in the eye on purpose.Like, if I was that good, I would touch their chins.

Right.

That's a lot smaller target.

Was the fight stopped there on the ground?No, no, it kept going.

This is actually the finish of the fight right here.He caught him with a big elbow right here and rocked him.I mean, Pereira was in real trouble.Yeah.I mean, it was he got fucked up.Yeah.

And Cyril Ghosn did a fantastic job.He really put it on him.

stop a championship fight on the feet.This is it right here.

That was it right there.I would have.At that point, yeah, that was a good stoppage.I'm not saying it wasn't.

I haven't watched the fight.

Here's the stoppage right here.You can see it.I haven't either, and I'm just watching this.Yeah, that's...It was so many blows maybe he could have taken one or two more after that for sure But Pereira is pissed off at Herb Dean and he's saying Herb Dean should never referee again Because he allowed those shots to the back of the head.

I mean you're in the moment I mean fight, but that's natural for a fighter to do like Well if the situation you want to bring first time you gotta bring awareness to it So they're not you know, they're you have to always be aware of hey, I could have did better here Yeah, that's how we all grow.So we need to do need to talk Talk about it, but from what I just watched there, and I haven't watched the whole fight, was the fight competitive at all?

Yes.Okay.

The first round was very competitive.Okay, so that would change a little thing, but from what I just watched right there at the end, that looked like a good finish to me.

The refs have such a tough job.Yeah, they do.I'm notorious for being really hard on these refs because, I mean, you need them to be perfect.Their main job is to protect you.When I fought Michael Chandler, I'm still and again I only speak about it now because I've never had a retraction from the referee whenever he poked me in the eye and then hedidn't get in between us, and he let him hit me with a huge shot, and then he doesn't give me my time to rest, not rest, to recover.

And there was only five seconds left in the round, so it turned out that I got a break anyways, but he goes in there, he says, are you good?I said, no, I'm not good.He just poked me in the fucking eye.And he says, okay, but are you good?And so then it's like, Can I still fight so that I said yeah?I'm good.

It's okay.Go who what referee was this the guy with a braid that he puts in his Mike Beltran yeah, and so I was very upset that he let Michael channel in that that shot and I know why he was so scared of the fucking heat we were throwing that he Didn't want to jump in there and get in the middle of it But his job is to protect me and he failed he felt so bad right there and so like after the fact I think I need you to acknowledge this so that you do not ever let that happen to another athlete in there because you fucked up so bad and You know he's trying to justify it, and it's like what the fuck are you doing?How can you justify this and so that for me that that that pisses me off?And then the decision not to give me my time like what?Need an explanation you know and because I need to know that you are gonna learn from this experience and for right now I still believe that he doesn't think he did anything wrong, and so I'm still upset about that well once you say We're petty you know you should be in that situation because you say to someone you got poked in the eye Are you good, and you're like yeah?

I'm good, but I got poked in the fucking eye and then I You're supposed to say one or two seconds, but are you good?I said, well, yeah, I'm good Okay, go are you good is not the right question.You have five minutes.Are you ready to fight?Can you see do you need to bring in a doctor?There's a series of questions, but the you have five minutes

is very important for a fighter getting poked in the eye you have five minutes to recover I didn't feel like I didn't know I didn't know what the point I feel pressure in my face right now like I don't this feels you're not gonna know for a couple seconds.

Yeah, I don't know you're gonna Blink a little bit move around a little bit all right I'm good, and that's when you're it's supposed to be very clear.

That's when you're ready to reengage, and that's what I'm saying That's the mistake he has to learn from because it was such a and after the the round ends I walk over to my dude get your fucking head of your ass.What the fuck are you doing?He's like go to your stool.I was like no What the fuck are you doing like your job is to protect me?You just let me get hit with a huge fucking shot What is going on and he's like go to your stool go to your stool and I sit down and then boom never thought about it again, but Still pissed off about that one.

You should be.I mean, that makes sense.

I mean, that's a mistake.Who's the ref that against Khabib?After the fight, he corners me in the hallway.And he's like, I know you would never tap.I was like, I tapped three times.He's like, no, you would never tap.

I'm like, dude, from the horse's mouth, I'm telling you, I tapped.And he still was like, no, no, you wouldn't tap.I was like, what the fuck?How can we get through this?

Three times I went to sleep and you went to sleep.

I've seen that yeah, I tapped three times percent you tapped 100 % and he's like no you wouldn't you know I know that you with your the way that you compete I only want to Herzog.I only want to one of the bus.You know because it's like His intention his intentions were good for me.You know he believed.I was a He gave you a chance gave me a chance, but like I fucking tapped man And I went to sleep because of it and luckily there's no detrimental and chronic You know long lasting problems because of getting tappedout, so I'm not like there's no repercussions.

Yeah, there's no concussion There's no TBI like it really is not detrimental at all as long as you don't hold it too long And I die as long as I wake up.I'm good right and so I was like okay the repercussions aren't as severe and so like whatever I'll just let this go but ultimately he Did it I mean I was even when I told him he didn't believe me that was the first thing you said when you jumped Up you went over to him, and then you guys had the conversation afterwards, but you went over to him saying dude.

What the fuck I tapped We see them later, but that was like dude.

I kept three times.I kept three fucking times.Yeah, it's pretty obvious You said you know you're some kind of fucking you think you're some kind of Superman.Why would you tap?It's like when your life is ending You know you're a fool if you don't understand that like I knew I was dying, and that's just where I was yeah So that's how crazy you are to everybody he's at their eyes are like down dude I know you better than you do you never tap like you kind of fight like that That's what I mean people think the best.That's how he best thing up to this moment is people are people don't give me credit for my intellectual abilities and I've also played into that and I've also understood how big of an asset it is for people to approach me like that, you know, thinking that I'm just some animal that doesn't Think or feel or whatever whatever people think or think I'm retarded well I think what it is is when you are such an animal people think you can't be smart because the smart person would be aware of the Consequences and wouldn't have the courage to fight the way you fight That's all it is and they and people who don't have that kind of courage They like to dismiss people that fight like savages because they got a wild savages can't be smart.

That's not right That's not correct people.It's like you see a really hot woman you guys got to be smartYeah, like no some of them are really fucking smart and also hot you know The world is confusing and you can't categorize people and put them into things little little You know little fucking boxes just to make you feel better.

Yeah, that's all it is you know and you're and the thing is I never signed up like when we were walking out to the press conferences like I 12, 15 ,000 people out there, I look at the guy, I was like, dude, I never, ever signed up to be a public speaker.What the fuck are we doing here?Like, I never wanted to be in this, where I talk in front of this many people.Like, that's not what I prepared myself for, ever.And now I'm in this situation where I have to, you know, every single word I get, I say before these fights is analyzed by the world.Like the whole, you know, my father is my dad, like, Sometimes I get tongue -tied.

Yeah, sometimes I misspeak.I do too, and I talk for a living.That's what I mean.But nobody, if people had to listen to themselves, they would understand that they also make mistakes.And so it's like, fuck, man, like I can't be perfect.I'm sorry.

I really wish, I didn't mean my dad was my father, even though, you know, it fucking makes sense.And it's true.

Listen, you're dealing with a bunch of people that have to write stories.Yeah, they have to.It's not about writing a story because something's interesting.They have to make a story, no matter what it is.Their job is to create content.And when your job is to create content, you make content out of nothing.

And it's usually not good.And that's what they're doing.

They're making big deals out of nothing.If I could have been mentally coached, it would have been in that aspect.

Public speaking?

I think you speak very well.No, no, it's like I just I guess there's no lesson to learn like you just have to do it Yeah, it's like fighting just do it a bunch of times and you get comfortable with it or you're naturally talented like Connie

You know who the fuck is that guy smart guy?

Yeah, he's great at that like he's fantastic at that shit I mean, that's where he shines you ain't lying You are like Tom Petty Tom Petty the heartbreakers you are petty dude who cares what people think no I think he speaks great, right?

I like you know I like to see what people are saying about my my Our interview in the you know because I want to see the perception.

I want to just keep it spy Yeah, but the thing is you're asking for the perceptions from people that you would probably never fucking talk to in real life 100 % annoying what you don't want to know the people that are most likely gonna comment Yeah, the people that are most likely gonna you think Michael Jordan's out there leaving YouTube comments.No, right It's not people that have their fucking shit together and have a big goal 100 people who are really dialed in and really fucking discipline and the people whose opinions you'd respect they're not leaving comments.There's certainly not even shitty comments.You nailed that that's just the reality and I'm not hating on these people I'm just saying like I would have been one of them if you somebody give me a fucking YouTube account when I was 17 I'd be posting the most horrible shit about everybody right everybody would you're a kid you're or you're a dumbass You don't have your life together yet, but that's the type you can't listen to them and take that as gospel because it's just not just seeing him walk through the airport and just everybody's perception when they see you and meet you is so Great, dude.

Like, it's...Like, people, they're like, like...

Bro, the haters!If the haters met you, they're like, bro, I'm a big fan.

Yeah, but still, but it's...But one of those things is, like, the inspiration on people, like...Everybody comes up and they're like, you're a favorite fighter.Like, have the brand that you're the...Your favorite fighter, favorite fighter.Like, that is unique.

Yeah.That is, like, such a cool thing.Like, you just keep inspiring and...Very proud of it.Be you.You should be.

Should be so proud.You should be.Yeah.So I asked you after the fight if you were going to fight again.You said you promised your mom.you weren't gonna make a decision.

And so it just settled in I mean where today we're here.It's Friday.The fight was just Sunday.So it's five Davis go So now you're just like fuck you can how do you not after that?I mean, you're the fucking champ.It'd be great to go out like that It'd be the an amazing cap, but also great to have at least one more.

Yeah, we'll see people like to watch chaos It's the highest level control chaos You know it'll never be that chaos again because it'll never be like it's hard to understand fighter jet flyovers And how dangerous this game is if you don't do it right and so is it impossible?

Yeah, yeah, so that'll be a huge.It's a huge fact.There's a lot.There's a lot of Variables that I have to contemplate when it comes to that decision.

Do you have a timeline in your head?

I do know so You can't remember a time I fought two times in six months in the UFC.I fought two times this year already in less than six months.And so I'm going to take the rest of the year.I need my body to heal.I mean, I have what's the fucking diagnosis?I have a severe bone edema in the tip of my fibula that happened on Christmas.

And I have been dealing with that since Christmas Day.

So a bone bleed, like a bruised bone?

Bone bruise, yeah.It's in the bone marrow of the tip of my fibula.Tip of my fibula clacked against my femur and it caused a deep, deep bruise and I cannot get it to heal because I went, you know, I was going through training camp.It really hurt after the paddy fight.When are you leaving?When are you leaving today?

We fly out at like 6 .30.It's three o 'clock.I want to see if I can get you in a waste well.Let me text Brigham and see if they can jab some fucking stem cells in you.

before you leave.I mean, I've gone to Vegas.I've got stem cells multiple times.I got PRP.Pretty special place.PRP put me on crutches.

It was crazy.And then I did a cortisone shot the Friday before I left.Wow.And that helped a lot.

Well, not training is really what it needs, right?And have you been doing any hyperbaric chamber stuff?No.That's huge for recovery.

You have no idea how against my process you guys would be.I mean, I think I got two, I probably had two massages this camp.That's amazing.

Well, it's really funny if you look at the difference between Ilya to pour you as a YouTube channel as well where it's fantastic really goes into depth But they're using like all this high -tech Neurostimulation headgear, and he's doing all these different things, and it's all you see the video It's got him doing there, and then me taking a 420 dab Yeah, trying to tap into those intuitive abilities yeah, yeah with your eyes closed I mean I come from the fucking dirt.

You know my parents fucked up They didn't put a golf club in my hand at four years old.They threw me in the dirt and You know I became comfortable with the uncomfortable.That's a giant factor though being comfortable with being uncomfortable It's a huge asset yeah It's such a with everything in life with everything in life wrestling is definitely definitely has is the biggest variable when it comes to my success I mean the mental the mental side of it likeIt's very similar to fighting in the fact that nobody can help you.All the blame is on you.All the success goes to you.

And you can never use Somebody else's excuse any team said I played football.I played baseball soccer swim team something's a little different, but you know there's always a Justification for why you failed or why you lost when it comes to those and you could always Point to somewhere else or at least a piece even if it's one or two percent somebody else's fault Then you can justify it.You know the lost yes in in wrestling.

That's never the case not only that it's a combat sport That's acceptable in high school Like, it's a combat sport that you take in junior high school, you take in high school, and kids learn, like, there's guys out there that are different.They're working harder than you, they're more aggressive than you, they want it more than you, they put in more time than you, and that's a lesson that's very valuable.Get delusional about what their abilities are, how special they are, who they are.When you get fucking flatlined by some dude who just fucking picks you up and slams you on your back and pins you, and you're like, and he can do it anytime he wants, and this is the reality of training with this guy, like, over and over and over again, you're like, oh, great.He lateral drops you in front of the whole class, oh, great.Like, this is, this is reality.

Now, you're either going to get better or this is going to keep happening to you over and over and over again.And the mental toughness that comes out of kids that grind it out in wrestling and learn how to wrestle uncomfortable, learn how to cut weight at an early age.All that shit's terrible for you, but the mental aspect of it is fucking undeniable.Think about how many great wrestlers have become great MMA champions.Absolutely.It's the most important foundation.

And great business people.I watched a study a long time ago.They said that the boxing and wrestlingCreated the best employees because accountability.Yes, you know and again the cutting the weight like you're responsible like that's this what I love about Justin is What makes it so nice to train him is high level people.Like I've had the luck to be able to train some high level guys lately and I don't have to deal with any shit.

Like, you know, and it's if I hold myself accountable, then we don't have to have these deep conversations or get our feelings hurt that we're just true to it.His accountability for everything is just, there's, there's nothing like it.And I, I credit that to his parents.His parents are just such amazing people.And the way that they had raised him to hold the, you know, cause he screwed up a lot as a kid.I told him if we were hanging out when we were younger, we got a lot of trouble because he reminded me of myself, super hyper, like, like making super bad decisions, but getting punished, getting grounded, getting not, not being able to go out late at night, like strict parents.

And that, being able to understand that there is rules in life, and you have to be accountable.If you screw up, you gotta deal with the punishment.And that is, it comes from your parents, and it's one of your best traits.

I agree.I think my parents being such good people, so my mindset has always, since I was a kid, I have looked up, so the reason I take comments online, and I read them, I've always looked up and given every single person I've ever interacted with the benefit of the doubt of being good.Whether it's what they're saying, what they're doing, their actions, everybody's been my role model.I've never, never looked at myself as a role model.I've always looked at whether, no matter what, even strangers, like I trust that they're good.And that's where I start my, that's where I start everywhere from.

And so reading comments online, like I truly take into account what I'm reading, you know, and I don't know why, because I know it doesn't matter a lot of the times.A lot of these, probably fucking 13, 14 year old kids.But I, in my mind, they're 50 year old, you know, men with experience.And I just try to use as much and as much of the readily available information, comments, words, action as I can from a place of, like, I feel like a child in a sense, when it comes to like interacting with people.And I don't know why that's how I take it or that's how I do it, but it makes everything a little bit better.And I'm not as disappointed as much, because once I learn that they're not that or they're not good and they can't help me, then I don't be like, oh, that's a bad person.

I'm just like, OK, I'm not going to have that experience again.Well, that's a good perspective.

It sounds like you use it then.And that's, everyone's different.And if you can handle it and you don't get mentally ill from reading comments, that's a rare, you're a rare person.We had many conversations.

Human services, that's what my, I went to school for human service.I love to help people.You have no idea how much joy it brings me to assist people, to make people's life better, to lift someone's spirit.I mean, those, that is what makes me feel alive.And that comes through my faith and through my parents.You know, my parents are such good people.

They deserve so much more than most parents because of their actions and their example that they showed for me.And yeah, I'm just so grateful to be the person that I am because, you know, it makes life easier.Life is easy.Life is so easy when you're not concerned about what people think, when you're not worried about things that you can't control.

Well, it's also easy if you're a good person.

I couldn't be a good person without the example of my parents.You have no idea how good and naive my parents are and when I say naive it's in such a good way because they haven'tdone the bad things that most of us have done and I and I failed him and The last time I ever did drugs I woke up in an ambulance and I'm pretty sure I died and I was like I will never fucking do that again my parents do not deserve that and that was probably 2016 Wow and I like I will never touch that again ever my parents do not deserve that and that was that's why I'm here Good for you, dude.

That's awesome.And it's great that you have such an awesome relationship with your parents.And it really does seem like that attitude that you have is very freeing in a lot of ways.

It is.It really is.Yeah.Golf, weed.

Trevor, let's talk about those gloves.What the fuck do we have to do to get your gloves into the UFC?It doesn't make any sense that we're using inferior gloves.

Obviously, I want to talk about this, but the gloves I fought in this week were different.

They are?

They felt...They weren't different.The leather was different.It was the same glove, the leather was different.It was a little bit thicker, I think.And so it was softer.

And so every time I've ever fought, I've had the most excruciating pain in between my hands right here.And I didn't feel that at all this fight.

So it's like if you have a thinner material going through, it's going to cut through the skin a little easier.

Or a tighter material.This was looser because it was thicker.It was weird.

So it was better better better for that feeling that all fighters better for comfortability Yeah, like you guys have no idea how uncomfortable we are when we're always like pulling on the glove to pull it back It's like getting a hand wrap too tight and you get those little things between you're constantly pulling on the tongue here So you make a fist and it squeezes harder.

Mm -hmm, but he this guy's a genius.

He can fucking make anything Uh, so hunter reached out to me three weeks ago four weeks ago and saidhe wanted to ignite the conversation again.So we'll see where that goes.But, you know, from that first position that we were in, A lot of things happened in a great thing.I always told you it was going to be timing.Timing is everything.

And they did the right thing and tried to make what we had spoke about.You know, we had NDA and we had a five year and they moved it to a two year.Took a lot of great notes.And I'm very grateful to be a part of those because they did go out there and use a lot of the ideas that I had.But they just couldn't do it to the level that I could do it.And I thought it was super cool that they were trying because it was a problem that they don't really see and understand.

So I I think they're in the right mindset and them helping the athletes I thought was a great, great thing to do.But during that time when I was going to talk to, I actually brought the gloves and it was when you were fighting on 300.We were out there and I had a new patent that I had been working on.So we can go opposite direction if they want to own it.It's a separate patent from the patent that I had that goes in all of our products, the internal strapping.This was a new patent, still with internal strapping, but a more dialed in for a fight glove.

And then we had those two options.And then when we got there, Ollie had told me that they're releasing a new glove.And so we have, you know, two versions now, which is super cool.And yeah, I think it'll go great.

Here's the conversation, though.What are you trying to fix?

Eye pokes.

Okay.

Eye pokes are big.

That is not possible.

You don't think it's possible to make less eye pokes?You can make less, absolutely.

You can make less, but you'll never stop eye pokes.You're never going to stop.

Well, of course you're not going to stop because the fingers are out.

You're always going to have thumbs.The issue is the athlete.The issue is the comfortability of the athlete and the performance of the athlete.That is where your ambition has to lie when it comes to making the glove better.Because the gloves we're fighting in now are fuckingIt's hard to make a fist.

You have to use your entire muscle of your arm to make a fist.And so by the time we get to the fight, this is already exhausted.And then the pressure in between your fingers is like something you can't replicate.

Let me ask you this.Do you think it's possible to make something that's like a mitten?Something that covers over the tips of the fingers.You would have fucking 80 % less eye pokes.I do think you could do that in time.

I don't think that's the change is hard for everybody, Joe.That's a huge change for grapplers and things like that.But but you're a grappler.So you're a grappler.Most people are going to say, well, that's going to affect this or my certain locker.I think you may try it.

But again, it's it's you have to test it.It would enhance it.

The only the problem would be like rear naked chokes, like getting the hand behind the head, you have more thickness.Like it's regular gloves are a problem already.But is it more of a problem just to have the fingers covered with I think it's the same.It might actually even slip in better.But the thing is, it's like covering the tips with like a mitt, like those old school Everlast bag gloves.

I think it's a different sport now.

But why?You can still clinch.That's what I'm talking about, Joey.You can take guys to the ground.Everything's the same.You can still grapple.

This is telling me so much right now.And if you take that away from me, yeah.That's a huge factor when it comes to intuitive abilities.

Okay, explain that to me.What are you feeling with your fingertips?that you think would be missing?

Well, it's not the fingertips.When it's my hand, like, he moves away.He moves in any direction.Like, I can make that read.Now he's farther, now he's there.

Right.

And I think if you're going to take touch away from us, that would deter our intuitive abilities.

Hmm.I wonder.

I wonder how much it would if you start practicing with them.But I also think that you have to understand where, as a fighter, for me, it's like when I'm in a fight,when I'm relaxed, and if my hand can be in this position when I'm relaxed, then I'm okay.Then there's not gonna be as many eye pokes.But when I relax and it goes like this, and now I have to do this.You're never gonna take the human reaction and instinct away to protect yourself.

And the instinct to protect yourself is, no.That is the instinct.It's natural, it's intuitive, and it has to be that because you're trying to get your chin tucked behind your shoulders so that you don't get hit, but the uncomfortability and like the strenuous Effort it takes to make a fist is fucking stupid.

It's stupid, and this is the difference between your gloves in the current UFC gloves My gloves are making your hand my gloves are one of those things that it promotes a natural hand natural position a better grip Yeah, better fist position where I'm not when I squeeze my fist and I have the wrap on it doesn't pull my hand up like this and when you see guys touch gloves they're usually like this uh -huh and Not like this, and it's lining the bones up for, you know, again, they said that the last gloves were causing less knockouts.Our gloves were gonna cause more knockouts because of better hand position, better grip strength on being able to have holds.Like if I'm holding someone's forearm.And better protection for your hands, so less broken hands.And internal strapping, like that is a huge thing.Like my goal at a certain point with that, to have where you can't have hand wraps on.

Like if you have a glove that's actually protecting your hand, but you have the gloves on that, Now it's equal 100 % because if you got one person that adds more more padding or less padding or a double layers tape like there's many different things that you can do and that to me it's like if if I if One fighter has tape wrap in their hands and then the other one has house wrap in the hands They're wrapping differently which one's better for breaks which one's better for punching like right like so having that thatwould be really cool And that's that's the difference with like like our gloves.

I'll show you I've never broke my hand when he's ever taped my hands like his tape job is I Can't wait to show it off to the Commission every single time.

I'm like look at that Tell me you've seen a better one than that tonight and every time they're like I don't think so you got gloves of course you do Of course you did they're my favorite by far, and ladies and gentlemen at home, if you're just listening, the difference between Trevor's gloves and everybody else's gloves, one of the big differences is that you can see, if you're looking at it, let's see how they're curved, folks.The regular gloves from the UFC are not, they're straight, just like this.So these gloves promote a natural punching position.Look, without even putting them on, they're already in that position.And then when you put them on, they're damn near perfect.The padding is amazing, they're fantastic to hit the bag with.

They're just fucking awesome.And they, and more importantly, look what they promote.So my hand is totally dead relaxed and it promotes a closed fist position.So this is a, he's doing the internal strapping right now.

Right, right, right.

Oh yeah.Oh, so these are better than the last ones you brought here.Oh, this is fucking fantastic Oh my god, you don't even need hand wraps Well, you had told me before that when you hit the bag with his gloves his bag gloves I haven't used I haven't grabbed my hand since 2015 Pfeiffer doesn't fight with hand wraps on which is crazy And it can get a point if we have the right protection.

It's awesome.

This is so superior to the UFC gloves I mean the fact that this isn't being used by the UFC right now is fantastic

great.We're gonna get it done.

I hope so.I've been trying so hard.

I stepped away from like the business part.I'm the visionary now.So I got right people that know how to make deals.So it's right and the UFC is gonna be happy.We were ready.

Yeah.

Dude, I've been there like, you know, I don't do that.

That was me versus Khabib.

I take full responsibility.Oh, I believe it.I didn't know that you could do deals all these different ways.You know what they'd say what they wanted to do I was like yeah, that's so good.

It's so better.

It's so better.

It's just much better.It's like Well, this is one of the things that I love about you is that you're so fucking creative with stuff and you're constantly I have trained with for the last Training bag, yeah, that's that's what I training.

Yep.Nice.

I hit pads in that never never wore hand wraps once And then the pointer knuckle protecting that pointer knuckle is so big yeah, I That's it, right?

Oh, it's so nice.You open, you can still grip.Right, you can still grip.You can still grab things.It's hard to choke somebody.

And the door -knocking knuckles.This is what lands a lot.

You choke the shit out of people with those.I bet you do.

You gotta go palm to palm, right?But still, it's just fantastic.Oh, thank you.

And I got you another pair of X -Factors, too.You got big hands.I remember I gave you the 60s.You're like, bro, these ain't gonna work for me.Yeah, I got big hands for a little dude.

Unusual.Yeah, we'll get it done.

Anytime you want to I'm so happy.

I'm so happy gonna get it done cuz I pushed for it so many times I brought it up today, and I brought it up to everybody I was like listen Yeah, what the fuck are we doing you guys spent a million billion dollars trying to make these new gloves you got rid of them in three months

That's because this could sound bad That's because they've never thought about the fighter But they did, they tried, they tried to make new gloves.They tried.They tried.They didn't fucking try.They did, dude.

You know how much money, I'm not gonna tell you how much money they put in.They spent a lot of money.They did, dude.

To do what?To give me the same exact fucking problem?

They hired people.What did they do?What did they change?They hired a company that works on football helmets.But what did they change in their gloves?But they don't know.

They took the ideas.At least they tried.They did.I will give them 100 % credit for that.

They did try, but I remember seeing the gloves when they tried and going, these suck.These are not as good.Right away.I'm still uncomfortable.

I don't hurt my head to him right away.Why don't you just get Trevor scores?

What the fuck are we doing here?No, these are good.

These are good The best gloves exist they're already made like there's only a few people out there that are willing to like really Get creative and redesign and engineer gloves and then when someone does it to the extent that you've done it like God So Joe when you think about that That's where I think I fit in well with this, because I want to evolve with the company, and if we change one thing, like my first thing I want to do is help a performance.I don't want someone to hurt their hand where all of a sudden I hurt my hand on the top of your head, and I'm just left -handed now, and everybody just, you know, there's no pay -per -view now, but I pay to watch these fights, and now the guy that I wanted to see fight can't continue because he hurt his hand.So we fix that problem.We fix longer, better grip strength for the grapplers who are gonna need to have wrist control when throwing shots.I want to help athletes perform.And as we go, let's slowly develop and test with the athletes and find out what, because it's about the athlete.

It's what works for them.And when we can get gloves on people and try something like you were talking about, that'll take time.You have to train it and go, Oh, I actually like this better.And there's pros and cons.There's pros and cons to everything.So it would take time.

And that's where, where I'm passionate about is let's find a problem and let me think through solving it.But I need to know what that problem is.

And we should send anybody to your website.It's is it onyx.

Yeah, oh nx sports .com Yep, a lot of people spell it with the best gloves the best shin pads.

Thank you.You have the best equipment.It's fucking phenomenal There it is right there.That's the website onyx sports .com It's fucking fantastic stuff.I mean, it's really obvious that it's a high -level coach who's developed all this shit I mean everything you make is top of the food chain best tester in the world I fucking break everything.

I'm sure I cannot break these loves.I cannot break these loves I have to switch every like six months because I wear the foam out so much, I don't ever want to hurt my...

But you've got two or three sessions of training every day.For a typical person, these gloves are going to last well over...Corey had his shin guards for four years.

I had my shin guards for like three years.

And when you think about the amount of damage that that three years entails, that's pretty incredible for pieces of leather and foam.Yeah, you're soaked with sweat.Everything's getting broken down and moisturized and drying out again.

Crap.

Hey, that's our bags that were up there.

Dude, we got connectors for the shin guards and the knee pads on the outside.So all your equipment's on the outside of the bag to dry.Oh, yeah.That's really cool, too.

So just trying to rethink how things work.So that's what I love about the way you approach things.

Fixing the problem.I can't stand you and we're not even working on kickboxing and someone's kicking and it's because they're fucking gear That's a real problem.It's a real problem and those are the ones always give you fucking cooties to Right so nasty.

Yeah, it's nasty Listen, Justin, I just want, I'm so glad you're not going to fight to the end of the year, like for whenever, just enjoy that.cuz that was a fucking masterpiece sir it was beautiful to be there I mean I felt so American.

American?

I felt so thankful.

It's so hard to represent this country because we're such a melting pot.Yes.And I think I have done it.I think I achieved that.And so I'm very, very proud of that.

Dude, you did it in spades.I mean, you did it five stars.It was fucking phenomenal.It was one of the greatest events that any sporting event has ever put on.I mean, maybe the greatest sporting event in the history of the world.

I said it before, this is going to be like some Miracle on Ice shit.It was, man.It really was.I knew I had the opportunity to do something special.

You did it, and then here you come down.

Yeah, I wanted to see my family.

It was incredible.That was so cool.Look how cool that is.Look how cool that is.That is so amazing.That's so fucking amazing.

It was an amazing night.I'm so happy.I went I'm so happy.

I was there to see it live I was honestly really nervous Joe.I was like dude There's like just again being around everybody and something could happen the drones that kid you know that they stopped like Again, I wasn't knowing what to expect and then tell after the fight because again we couldn't take it in It was a beautiful thing and Justin I was like fucking if I get taken out in the middle of the cage how fucking legendary that be I said to Trump I hope we don't die in a terrorist attack.

I said to Trump.I hope we don't die in a terrorist attack Goes we got to go somehow Better the way it went Way better well hey brother, thank you for coming here.

Yes graduations Masterpiece yes both of you I just got a I'm gonna shoot a song this year on the go hunt website an antelope.Oh, yeah, yeah Almost thousand yard shot dude check it out check it out.We fucking missed itass off We were in the it was windy these things do not stop moving They could see us forever, and they just kept going and we were on shoot.We couldn't get prone so we had to you know you Every hunt you're like I'm gonna have a prone position.I'm gonna shoot from we cannot get in a prone position So we're on shooting sticks trying to manipulate the sticks and take shots So Luke Luke misses from a hundred and forty yards Dude, this story was so much better for Luke without that.

This thing goes to 1 ,093 yards.Crazy.Hits it in the head, drops it.And we're just like, what the fuck, Luke?How?How do you hit that shot and miss a hundred?

This is a, yeah, look at this.Wow.That's crazy.1 ,092.Was he shooting for the head?No.

Just trying to hit the center of the fucking target boy and these crazy prairies to the kind of wind drift you're dealing They don't they can see for miles these things do not stop moving.

No.They're they evolved to get away from cheetahs They used to be North American cheetahs and so North America.This is all before the Younger Dryas impact so it's like when Somewhere around 11 ,800 years ago 65 % of all North American mammals went extinct and there was American lion that was bigger than the African lion and then there was a cheetah and these fuckers These guys evolved to get away from cheetahs.So they can run like 55 miles an hour.

They fucking fly.When you look at them, they look prehistoric.

Their eyeballs are like way out here.

It's crazy how good a decoy works with them though.

Oh, horses too.Guys walk right up on them on horses.

Get a moo cow thing and just walk right behind them.

Walk right behind them and then you can, that's how archery hunters do it a lot.Cause you have to get a lot, yeah.Very tough to sneak up on them.But do you do bow hunting?

bow hunt?

No, no, what do you want to learn?

I Shot an elk and did not recover it and I told myself that I will never go archery hunting unless I have a time and effort to Be 100 % ready.

Yes, right.And so right now it's just rifle Well, rifle's always gonna be the most effective way.It's still an awesome way to hunt.

Coo's Whitetail in Arizona is my favorite hunt.

Oh, really?Okay.

You should go on that with me one of these days.

That's a fun hunt.Those are tiny little guys.

Tiny little gray ghosts.I grew up there, so my buddies, their whole life have looked...We could go out there, we wouldn't find shit.Right.They're fucking everywhere, but you can't find them.

Oh, they're hard to spot.Yeah, they're very...

They call them the gray ghosts, and my buddies can find them.And it's such a fun hunt.

Yeah, it's a great hunt.Well, Arizona's a great hunting state, too.You have some of the best elk in the country.Gentlemen, again, congratulations.Absolute masterpiece Sunday night.One for history.

Maybe the greatest event in the history of the sport.

Call me on Joe Rogan again, baby!

Anytime.Let's do it one more time.Let's do it one more time when you do decide to wrap it up.Thank you guys.Thank you.OnXSports .

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