'JUST FOR AXEL RUDAKUBANA!' Watch as Patrick Christys CALLS for return of death penalty

Everybody, thank you to everyone who's made the journey to be here tonight.We start with a very, very serious story indeed.I honestly think that we should bring back the death penalty just for Axel Rudy Cabana.The news broke late last night that he'd been moved from Belmarsh Prison into the high -security mental facility at Broadmoor.And you will instantly be able to see, if you were watching on the screens then, that the rooms at this mental facility are a lot nicer than the ones at the Category A prison.prison.

Now this has led to family members of his victims saying that he's just gamed the system for a better life.But let's have a little look at Axel Rudikibana's track record, okay?Rudikibana is the son of asylum seekers from Rwanda, a safe country that in my view his parents should now be sent back to.He was expelled from school, he tried to bring knives into school.He called Childline and said that he was being racially abused and that he wanted to stab pupils.He then returned to the school and attacked a pupil with a hockey stick.

He was sent to a special school where the head teacher openly said in a report that he posed a significant risk and she was told to stop racially profiling a young black boy.Staff at that school needed a police escort to go and do home visits for him.He then went onto a public bus, and apparently he didn't pay the fare, and then he kicked off.And when police arrived, he was found to be in possession of a knife.just returned him to his parents.In 2021, he attacked his father, damaged his father's car.

His father chose not to press charges.Then one week before the Southport attack, his dad stopped him from getting in a taxi and doing goodness knows what.That is what you'll be seeing on your screens right now.So he left the flat or house, sorry, tried to get into a taxi.His dad clocked that he was leaving, went, got him out the taxi.We will never know exactly what he would plan to do that day.

His parents didn't notice.I don't know about anyone here, but I think my parents might have noticed if I was trying to make a chemical warhead in my bedroom.On the morning of the attack, his parents did realize that he'd actually gone missing.They didn't report it to police.His mum went back to bed and just hoped for the best.But she did say that when she heard of the Southport attack, they were worried that he might have been a part of it.

And again, I ask you this.I know some people in the audience here this evening look as though they might have kids or grandkids, etc.If your child wandered out one day or was a bit late coming home and then you check the news, And there'd been some kind of horrific thing like Southpaw.With the best will in the world, unless you knew your child was an absolute lunatic, you wouldn't assume that they might have been a part of it, would you?So that tells you everything that you need to know about what they knew about their own son.Apparently his brother was also worried that he'd been planning something.

Did he care to tell the authorities?It doesn't look like it.Well, Axel Rudi Cabana was deemed mentally fit enough to stand trial.He pleaded guilty to a range of charges and he got a minimum of 52 years behind bars.Then he attacked a prison guard by throwing boiling water through the hatch of his cell.They've now done a mental assessment on him and they've moved him to Broadmoor because he's too much for them to handle at Britain's highest security category A prison.

Now you look at all of that, don't you, and to me Rumi Qurbana is probably the most violent, dangerous, evil, completely mental person in Britain.Even a public inquiry found that his, quote, irresponsible and harmful parents could have prevented the attack.And I agree with that personally.I think that's absolutely scandalous.Belmarsh can't handle him, but his parents thought they'd give it a go.Just deport them.

They should be deported.There was so much goodwill for his parents when they first arrived because they were asylum seekers.Now, I do believe that if this had been the child of a white working -class couple, I think you can guarantee that the media would have been absolutely hammering them about this from the start.You can guarantee that the authorities would have stepped in sooner.The cost of housing him at Broadmoor is roughly £300 ,000 a year.How much would it cost to just execute him?

I think we should do that.Let's get the views of my panel and we'll get the views of the audience as well.Can I just get, as a little show of hands here, who in this room thinks that we should bring back the death penalty for Axel Rudi Cabana?Yeah, OK. I think it's pretty much everyone there.Yes, I mean Christel, what do you think?

OK, I want to caveat what I'm about to say by the fact that I do think that there is a real argument about rehabilitation of prisoners and that there are people who can be redeemed.I think that we don't do enough in this country for people who are are perhaps on the borderline and I don't know whether I would always agree that prison, though it should be a punishment without a doubt, is the most constructive place.Because I do think that prison should be somewhere where you would have the chance when you're released to make a good contribution to society.I say that because I passionately also believe that Axel Ryder -Cabana should be dead.I think that he should have been executed.I think that he, Salman Abedi, who of course was the Manchester Arena bomber, the killers of that poor little boy Preston, you know, the horrific abuse of that little boy.

There are certain crimes that I think warrant usbringing back the death penalty.Now people say that it doesn't bring back the crime rate.I don't care.I don't care that it doesn't bring down the crime rate.care about it being an eye for an eye.

And perhaps that seems petty.Perhaps people will think that that just seems vengeful.Well, I am vengeful.I am vengeful when it comes to people like that.I want them to die.I want them to die, preferably in quite a painful way, which I know probably wouldn't be the way in which it was done.

And I would also have a death row.I wouldn't tell them the day that they're being executed so that that sword of Damocles hangs over their head and and it's unbearable for them until the day that they are executed.Because there are certain crimes, I'm afraid to say, that warrant it.I would probably put it in the hands of the families of victims to decide.So if a judge says this crime is worthy of the death penalty, families of victims, what do you want?And if the family of the victim chooses it, then it happens.

OK.All right.

The final bit of stuff is that obviously, Axel Rudi Cabana is guilty.mental yeah i mean that's that's that's beyond any doubt in the same way that i think like every jihadist is is mental okay but he was deemed mentally competent enough to stand trial And now this idea that it can only be handled in Broadmoor is a new thing.It's a new thing.And for me that is not a coincidence.You know, he gets a bigger room, he gets better facilities, it's more of a therapeutic, it's run by the NHS, obviously it's very secure and everything, but it's fundamentally run by the NHS and not run by prison guards in the way that Belmarsh Prison is.The family seem to think he's just gaming the system here.

Anna, what do you think?

Well, I think there's a few principles here.I think that the offender's interests should never come above the victim's interests in this case and when the prison officerAssociation have said that this man is gaming the system, then I think we should trust them that they know what they're talking about and conclude that they're right and that he is and he should not be allowed to game the system.That's just, you know, common sense, isn't it?That's just ground zero.There's another thing that really upsets me about this case.

This monster was referred to the PREVENT programme Not once, not twice, but three times.And that is a program, as you all know, which is supposed to stop people from, it's supposed to literally do what it says, its name, prevent them from going on and committing these horrendous crimes.The school identified him as a problem and referred him to prevent.Other people referred him.This program costs £40 million a year.It's not fit for purpose and that should be scrapped.

That would be a lot more police officers, a lot more nurses.Now onto the issue of the death penalty, I think this is really, really really difficult, but I have long held the view that if you take a child's life, you're not actually just destroying their life, are you?You are destroying the life of the parents, often the grandparents, and the whole family.So why should you then be entitled to live yourself?And I even think, and I'm not a hugely religious person, but I do try to live by Christian values.It's even in the Bible, Christ actually says, better a person is flung into a lake and a millstone put round their neck than they harm one of my little ones.

So, it's even biblical.The New Testament, I mean, obviously it's been before you.

I'll get your views on the death penalty thing.That's the kind of, the formal better phrase, the hook for this.But also the parents here, again.I would be amazed if there has actually been a significant deterioration or change in Axel Rudi Cabana in the 18 months or two years he's been behind bars, given everything we know about what this guy was already like.His parents were of the view that, what, we can deal with him in the home, when they couldn't.They knew they couldn't deal with him in the home and he's gone on and done what he's done.

I mean, you know, talk about death penalty, but again, if Belmarsh, category A prison, have had a look at this guy and gone, he's too dangerous for us, what the heck were the parents playing at?

Yeah, I think on the death penalty very quickly, and I know this is a barrister, there's the principle that hard cases make bad laws.And so I think we should be careful about these sorts of things.And actually, we talked in the break, specific acts of Parliament for specific people doesn't seem like a terrible idea, actually, because you don't necessarily set precedents for these sorts of things.But the alternative is that at some point, someone else is going to kill this guy in hospital, in one of these secure hospitals, and it will be as painful and unpleasant as Christo says.And I don't think that's the right way for us to do this in a civilised society.and Christian for a long time.

I love them to bits.It makes me sad.But I understand when you say, I want these people to be torn apart by the families or the rest of it.And I think that's the wrong approach, because I think actually there should be a more civilised and sensible way of doing this.And we know that we think it's acceptable for lives to be taken in the example of police shooting active terrorists or in war zones or things like that.Of course, the Labour government now thinks it's OK to kill babies up to nine months and kill grannies.

So life is losing its sanctity all the time under this government.I think on the broader point, I think what's very, very difficult about this is that Rudy come from Rwanda where there was this horrible genocide and for whatever reason, maybe connected to that fact, we know that Rudi Cabana got obsessed by genocides, was googling it on the internet, got obsessed by all of this sort of stuff.And we are all too scared to wonder, and I don't know the answer to this, if there is some kind of connection between the fact that his family died.from there and he got obsessed with this.There are lots of horrible things that happen in lots of parts of the world.And when you look at certain crime stats in other countries, you can see that people from some countries commit many more violent crimes than others.

And we know at the moment that the government is trying to block the release of crime stats by nationality, because they know probably that it will say these sorts of things.You can see it.The Danes have done this.The Dutch have done this.You will be unsurprised to hear that a Japanese person and living in Denmark commits fewer crimes than the average Dane does.But the average Eritrean in Denmark, for example, commits a lot more.

Now, that's a very difficult and unpleasant thing to talk about.But we can also see this again just quickly by, again, this is not a racial point, because you will see Ghanaians and Kenyans committing fewer crimes than Eritreans or Congolese or whatever else.So we're not talking about a racial issue here.There are deep, difficult cultural problems when you start having lots of people in from cultures that are just all societies that are much more violent.And yet our immigration system does not discriminate about that.And frankly, given the data that we know isn't being held back by the government, that would prove this point, I think, for me, we should probably factor that into our immigration decisions, a .

k .a.maybe more Japanese people because they don't commit so many crimes and they contribute to GDP, and fewer people from countries that have had horrible things happen.Doesn't mean we can't go and try and help them with aid and we can have that debate if you want to, but it doesn't mean that we should be trying to rehabilitate those people here in a country that cannot handle that kind of violence.

Andy, would you bring back the death penalty for Rudy Cabana?I wouldn't.I don't think that the state should be able to execute people.Just as a principle.

What about when there's a terrorist running around with a knife and there's a police officer with a gun?

Should he kill them then?I think that's quite different.

But that's the state giving sanction to taking someone's life.

I think it's different for a terrorist that's going to blow up a restaurant or blow up a group of people to a guy that has been sentenced and imprisoned and is going to stay in prison for the rest of his life.I think we all agree he's a nutter and objectively he should be under psychiatric hold.This isn't an arts and crafts facility, it's a very secure psychiatric ward.Do you know what I mean?If he's in a normal prison and he's causing real harm to either the prisoners around him, the prison officers, the nurses, even if he's in solitary confinement, people still have to feed him, people still have to give him medical checks.We still have a responsibility to him.

I don't think they should be hurt.

Andy, if he had been killed at the scene, which I wish he had, frankly, Would you have had any issue with that?

I think if he was still posing a risk, I think that's fair.Because if he's posing a risk to other people, I think it's a completely different...I think it's a false equivalence.

I think it's a false equivalence.You would agree, therefore, that the state can, in certain circumstances, kill people, but it's the premeditated nature of it that you don't...

Yeah, I think there's a complete difference between him being in a court and him being, you know, still sloshing around some people.

I think it's a false equivalence.Other than the virtue of us saying to ourselves, we're civilised, we're a more civilised society or more civilised people than him, what use is keeping him alive?What actual contribution is there any chance of him ever making to society?None.

None whatsoever.I don't think we should be talking about based on contribution to society.Why?If we're all severely disabled, I don't think we should go, oh, well, you're never going to contribute, we'll kill you.I think it's a bad precedent.I think that's a different story.

That's a false equivalent.

That's a really ridiculous equivalent.That's exactly what you said.He's never going to contribute.

And he's never going to be redeemed.He's never going to be rehabilitated.He's never going to be able to go back to being a person in a society that shows any kind of civility, he will always be a danger, a danger that we are paying for, and I don't see why people who carry out...I wouldn't have the difficulty for every crime, but for certain crimes like that, you need to have it.

There's also something that stands out for me.So the families of the three girls that he murdered were very quick.to release a statement on this.So we found out about the story that he'd been moved to this facility roughly off the top of my head at about 8pm last night, and then by the time I woke up this morning...had released a statement. TheyThey were pretty quick out the traps with that.

And do you remember when the family of Henry Novak released their statement and in amongst all of their very powerful criticism of the police and all of this stuff and there was that one line in there wasn't there that said we don't want this to be used for division.Everyone leapt on that.All the politicians leapt on that, apart from Nigel Farage, who then got hammered for saying, I actually don't think we should agree with this cold, hard rage or whatever he said about it.Well, the families here have come out and they've said, we think he is gaming the system.Why are our politicians not jumping on that in the same way that they do when someone else says something?There should be a real investigation here into whether or not he is gaming the system.

We need to see all of the evidence to find out why now.Why exactly have they decided that this guy is going to go to this mental facility?Why is he not just kept in solitary in a proper prison?

But also, Patrick, they should be backing the Prison Officers Association.It's a really hard job to be a prison officer.You know, we've lost loads of prison officers because it is such a difficult job.When they say someone is gaming the system, what message does it send to them if the press takes no notice of them?It says your job is not valuable and we don't respect it.

And that's not acceptable.I don't think the POA would be supporting keeping a guy who's actively doing harm to prison officers.But surely they could put him in solitary?We've still got a responsibility to him.You've got to send a nurse in to do a medical check every 90 days.Do you?

You've got to feed him.You've got to check on him.Yeah, you do.

There's legal responsibility.You would want that.I think it would be cruel and unusual for for somebody, even if they were in solitary confinement when they developed some kind of illness, to say actually the better thing is to let this person rot if he's got some kind of painful cancer and you're just going to laugh at the guy hurting the rest of it, that demeans all the rest of us, which is why I think a proper, well thought through construction to end the person's life is probably the morehumane thing for us as well as for him.So that we don't go down that cruel and unusual punishment.

and they wanted to immediately act on the Axel Rudi Cabana case.She said that officials would clarify thresholds of guidance for frontline workers so that those people fascinated with extreme violence or mass casualty attacks, like Rudi Cabana was, should be referred directly to counter -terror programmes.And the Ministry of Justice spokesperson has said that following rigorous security checks, Axel Rudi Cabana has been transferred to a high -security psychiatric unit where he will remain until assessed fit to return to prison.Officials have approved this transfer on behalf of ministers.This transfer does not change his sentence.52 years behind bars.

He'll serve every single day.Right, okay.We're going to move on from that now.