Life of S*x Workers: Prostitution, Human Trafficking & Forced S*x | Gitanjali | FO401 Raj Shamani

The brutal truth of the red light area which people in India don't believe, but it's true.

These small kids, 12 or 10 years old, were forced, beaten, and given alcohol. 30, 40, 50 clients were attended

per day.

So now you can imagine about her body, right? She's like a dead body. A sister told me a story, she said, ma'am, the flush in the toilet and they used to pack food in a bag and hide it there

Why can't we get food all day?

Until you don't attend to the customer, you won't get food

In today's episode, our guest is Gitanjali Babbar Founder of Kat Kata which helps sex workers in rescuing and making their lives better Today, we'll learn from her how all this starts How girls get trapped in the system? Why is it so difficult to rescue them?

And can legalizing sex work be the solution to this problem? Child trafficking, sex exploitation, rapes In the countries where prostitution is illegal, there is 11% crime And in the countries where it is legal, there is only 3%

Our sisters also say that we are there, but you are not getting raped

Why can't the person out of the place?

We have traumatized their brain in such a way that they can't even think.

Did the police help you?

Police is a part of this whole process. A policewoman who was trying to work, is transferred.

How does the society treat the kids who are now in the police force?

I knocked on many schools' doors. They came and said, Gitanjali, I may be ready as a principal, but the kids' parents are not.

These clients come. Why do they do this?

Some boys just want to go to the brothel every day. I see a lot of college boys. They go to the brothel to celebrate their birthday.

Really?

I had a 14-15 year old boy in a school uniform.

A 15 year old boy?

Yes.

And he brought 200 rupees.

Is this more common in caste communities?

I haven't seen a girl from J&K. I haven't seen a girl from Punjab on GB Road.

Top cities or states?

West Bengal and Andhra Pradesh. What did you see in India that broke you? We are showing you infrastructure, we are showing you highways, but you come with me to the brothel and then you will actually see the real situation of the city.

Tell me the most dirtiest inhuman acts that boys have done with these girls.

Umm...

Before moving ahead, subscribe to this channel so that we can make more insightful and better podcasts for you. And the audio experience of this whole show is available on Spotify, where you can follow us. Enjoy the show. What did you see in India that broke you completely?

Actually, I won't just say in India, Raj. I've traveled across. The one who has shaken me up is actually the soul of that girl hai which is similar in every place. Ho sakta hai ki Australia ke bahuti fancy brothel mein kaam kar rahi thi ya wo New York ke bahuti fancy strip club mein aapko stage par lag raha hoga ki she's doing out of her own choice and Reno mein wo bahuti smart dikh rahi hai wo khadi hai sadaq pe. But when I met that girl from in Reno

the other day, for me that is an unforgettable moment. Main gaadi mein thi aur main jinn ke saath gayi aur raat mein hum usse mile. And she was very fancy and wearing a nice dress and bahut achchi dikh rahi thi aur mujhe laka yaar, India mein toh kitti buri haalat She looked so beautiful. I thought, how bad the condition of girls in India is. They are living so well here. And she smiled with whom I was with. And next morning, she got a call

from the same girl. I need you. And we ran to see her. She was in such a bad condition. Her hair was all over the place. She was lying on the floor.

And I had something in my bag to eat. I think half burger or something like that. He was so hungry that he looked back and said, Do you have something to eat? And I said, It's already eaten. He ate it in one bite.

And my brain couldn't process what happened in the night and then the person with whom I went to work for a month they had made a room where they used to take girls and they can pick up stuff, good clothes, once a month they will take the girl there and they took her there, she picked up ration and everything and she was picking it up like this

I mean it was very confusing then I asked her later how is this possible she was looking so confident so happy last night and she said she was drugged completely she was not in her senses last night and the person who drugged her he was looking at her

from the roof he was keeping an eye on her And now when she is coming to her senses, she is understanding And she has nothing in her house She didn't even have water to drink at home We took her to the water But when we go to that girl at night as a customer, we feel that I have come to such a place to buy sex

where it's legal, where the girl is doing it by her choice and the same condition is in Delhi also When you climb in Delhi's courts, the girls and women will call you like this, come, come, come You will feel that they need me, I am just serving Many boys come like this, we are just serving. You're not serving. They're here and they're calling you to come

because that's what now they're being told, they're being forced to do. They have no other option. If you don't come, they won't get food. And if they do it in pain, then you won't come, they won't get food. And if they are sad, you won't take them. And if you don't take them, they will stand for 16-18 hours in search of you.

And then they won't get to sleep, they won't get food, they won't get water. So ultimately, she has to pretend as if I'm very happy and I will give you all the pleasure and I'll make you happy. Come with me in the room. So I think what breaks is when you sit separately with your sisters and with these girls. Then you understand how fake this world is.

So are we lying about progress?

Of course.

Do you think there is no progress, there is no empowerment,

and exploitation is increasing? I would say that our life and world is very hollow at this time. We are all hollow. Like they say, there is no content. And there is so much content to say. You open your YouTube, you have content, content, but it is not actually content, we are showing progress, we are showing infrastructure,

we are showing highways, we are showing buildings, we are showing all this, but you come with me to the cottage and then talk and talk to me about the infrastructure there, or how the water is there, or how the hygiene is there, or how the education is there, you will actually see the real situation of the city. Gandhi ji used to say, if you want to see the success of a country, go to the village. I say, if you want to see the success of a country, go to a slum area or a red light area.

And then you will know that the city, in Bombay, is a world of fancy dreams. But everyone has dreams. So what about those women's dreams? Why were their dreams broken in childhood? In Kamatipura, there must be almost 40,000-50,000 women.

And everyone must want to be a heroine. It's not a tax to dream.

Do you think that the upper class, middle class, rich people, privileged people, are they living in denial or silence? Are they living in ignorance? Or they don't even know?

Are they ignoring?

They know what's going on. They know. They are just ignoring it. They know it also. Some people have no clue about it. And some people are denying it. Like a lot of people ask me this question that those women have got used to doing this work. What will you do?

And they also know that the woman is not used to it. She has been made to do it. A daughter, daughter-in-law or mother of someone's house will not say that tomorrow, I have to choose a profession, so I will do business on GB Road. A person can opt for sex work out of their choice. But I go to the brothels and do business.

I don't know. I saw 99.99% of women on GB Road. I met them. I got heart to heart with everyone. I didn't meet a single woman who said that she wanted to come here. Never. But all those women will go to the police station and say that I am doing it on my own.

Why?

Because if she didn't say this, she would be beaten. The police are in the melee. If she said in court that I am not doing it on my own, then the police will call the owner and say that you didn't teach the girl anything. Then the owner will come and say that you didn't teach the girl anything. Then the owner will come and beat her. So our system is so bad.

So what if there is no denial? What if it's not corrupt? What if it's not hollow?

So you're telling everybody, all the people who do sex work, everyone has been forced?

Not all the people who do sex work.arte hain nahi. So agar aap kat katha ke baare mein bhi puchoge jo hamara vision hai that is to end forced sex work. Jitne logon ko force kiya gaya hai. Agar hum ek educated ladki se jaa kar baat karein jisne sab kuch jaan liya zindagi mein. Usne padhai kar li, sab kuch kar li. Now Now she wants to earn more money and she feels that by selling my body in my own way Nobody else has the right over my body I have my own right, I will choose a man and I will go

That is something very different But when we go to brothels, we find that she didn't even know She was 12 or 10 years old She had no idea that I was going to such a place. And when she came here, she didn't know that I wanted to do this. And she was forced, beaten, forcefully given alcohol for years.

We call it a keep. They put it in her mouth and put alcohol in it. That she will be in a state in intoxication for the whole day. And 30-40-50 clients attend her. Per day? Per day. I've met a woman, she said I have attended 70 clients in a day. So now you can imagine about her body. She is like a dead body. People will come, eight minutes they will go out. Come, eight minutes they will go out. Five minutes, six minutes they will go out and she's lying like

a dead body. Ab aise mein, aap agar yeh baat bologe ki wo aurat lade aapne adhikar ke liye, kaise possible hai humare desh mein? Tell me the most dirtiest inhuman acts that you have heard or seen that boys have done with these girls? Biting their breasts in a very dirty way. They have beaten them up. A sister told me that she was injured in Dream Village She was bleeding profusely

I told her to bandage her wound I am so bad in life that I don't feel pain even if I cut a little leg She said that because she was a rebel She raised her voice So I have never had a face without a nail So that's what I'm saying

It's played with the brain. So there, beating and beating, recently, a sister told me a story, that ma'am, in the toilet, there's a flush in the toilet, they used to pack the food in a bag and hide it.

So that the food doesn't get wet. It's in the toilet. And when they won't give me food, if the customer is waiting for 3-4 hours, I will go to the toilet and eat my food.

And I will come out.

You won't get food the whole night?

Until the customer doesn't attend, I won't get food. Until I get a certain amount of money, I won't get food.

I see how they take care of I won't get food until then.

I see how they are preparing the little girls. There was a little girl, she was 16 years old, in this room. She was very jolly. And she loved to speak English. So whenever a teacher came with me, we used to teach in the kothas, I used to talk to her in English. And her owner never stopped her.

She used to tell me, don't study. She used to tell me, study, study, no problem. So, she used to study for an hour. Let's say, she used to go to attend customers at least four times. Sir, I am coming right now, okay? And she'll go, attend to the customer, wash her hands, wash her face, and then come back to study. And that teacher is waiting

for her to come back in 10 minutes. So, we dream... I mean, they teach me a lot. I feel like you learn a lot on GB Road. You break dreams and see them again. It's very strange to see hopes.

There are temples in every house on GB Road. It's a beautiful temple. I feel like if something happens in our life, we lose faith in God. We start fighting. What is there in your life that you believe that someone will save you?

But that hope is there. You believe that someone will save you But there is hope and hope there

But you said that you can't go and rescue like that

We don't do that, that's not our policy Why can't you rescue like that? Look, I don't believe in raids and rescue operations Because I have seen so many raids We keep our women in police stations and then present them in front of the court

and then they send them to Nalini Ketan and the stories I have heard about Nalini Ketan on GB Route they tell me to keep them in the brothel for life but not to send them to Nalini Ketan Why? Because there is so much filth there

they say, what do you think? They don't let us do business in Narayani Ketan

Even there, we are sent out drunk at night

And it's a controversial thing People can raise voice against me But that's what I have heard from them There was a Didi She was a very beautiful singer She used to dance She had stopped singing for 10 years

When I met her I was introduced to her I am talking for 10 years. When I met her, she introduced me to her. I'm talking about 10 years ago. She sang beautifully. I said, sister, please sing for me sometime. She said, I don't sing for 10 years now.

I said, why? She said, 10 years ago, she took me on a raid. She kept me in a coconut shell for 6 months. And then, I couldn't understand what happened to me for six months.

What happened?

She said, I couldn't spend a single night without getting a job there. I was kept there in such a bad way. And here I do whatever I want all day, I laugh, I play. There is nothing like that there. There you are sending us for our own good,

but what happens with us there, she said, I had sworn then. Because for them singing and dancing is a gift from God. It's a gift. So she told me, there my expectations from life were removed. That Nareni Ketan, in six months.

She said, I agree to die, but I want Nareni Ketan. Our system is so bad. If the system is good, if we are promising that when we will get a sister out of the raid, then we will take care of her. We will stand with her unless she feels that I am confident again and I can do something. If we are promising that, then yes I am up for raids. But if we are saying that after doing raids, we are sending them to Narayani Ketan, and then what happens?

They return to the brothel from Narayani Ketan. When the period ends, the owner goes and tells them, you cannot go home. When they go home, the family will not accept them. So what do we do? Now they have no place, so comes back to the brothel. And then she is in a worse condition because the owner gives her money.

He says, I have given 2 lakh rupees to a policeman in your name. Now you have to pay me 20%, 30%, 40% back. So her whole life is spent in interest. She doesn't even reach the source. So it's a trap. Our system is so...

But can you not directly go, let's say, you talk to so many girls, you talk to so many sisters, you talk to the sister who wants to leave. Can't you talk to them directly and get them out?

Yes, that's what we are doing. When a sister says that I have to leave by my choice, now because we have been working in Katkatha for 14 years People there have understood our work And we work with owners also We have never seen the owners differently

I think the owner whose story I am telling you She also reached there out of helplessness So we don't look at them differently And when we have a relationship with them And a sister said I have to leave So we talk to the owner too differently And when we have a relationship with them And if a sister says I want to leave We talk to the owner as well

Sister, look, he wants to leave Now you tell me how will you do it And now we have so much of a rapport That a new girl comes Recently two girls came And we got a call from the owner on both occasions

That the girls are being sold here You can come now, so come And we reached there, so the two owners are fighting, I will take it, I will take it, and the third owner is saying, you take it. And that girl is outside with us. But it took years, it took me 15 years, it took our team 15 years, 15 days, 15 years, so many nights, so many days, I have shed blood and sweat only then we can become rappers and we think we will raid, we will take out

and then we will purify them we will teach them something new there is no need to teach them when I see my sisters in Dream Village we have no warden in Dream Village they make their own rules

they know, they know life much more than us how to live life. So who are we to teach them?

How does the society treat the kids who want to study? Do they get admission in normal schools?

No, it's very difficult. When we started 15 years ago, I knocked on many schools' doors. And many good schools, which are very modern, their value system is very... They say that we don't judge, we don't bias. Yes, yes, yes.

And we welcome diversity. We have gays too. We welcome. We have these discussions with the kids. He came and said, Geetanjali, I am ready as a principal, but my teachers may not be ready. Maybe the teachers will be ready, but the kids may not be ready.

The kids may be ready, but the parents of the kids may not be ready ho jaye, lekin bachche ke parents ready nahi honge. In all, aap ready nahi ho. Because agar aap ready honge, toh aap sabko…

Toh koi kuch nahi bol rahe hai, convince kar logayi.

Yes.

Aap itna bada school chal raha hai, but it was a very good school. They told me to send my kids. I won't tell my teachers what their background is. I will only tell them that they have not been able to study till now. Now they have to study. So our kids went there. A year later, my kids came to me and said Ma'am, we are tired of hiding our identity. Ma'am often says, why doesn't your mother come to Gitanjali, why does she come to PTMA?

We feel that our teacher won't judge us anymore. We should tell them that we live in a brothel. I called sir, sir, SSA, my kids are speaking. Sir said, if the kids are feeling it, then they should tell them.

And they went and told them. And those teachers were so emotional because they had so much love for those kids that their background didn't matter to them. And they received them so well. And my kids were so happy. Ma' level, most of the girls get stuck in this. Where does it start? How do they get it spread? At what age does it start?

Where?

What is the cycle?

What is the route?

How do they reach?

Any girl doesn't land directly on GB road, right? Or any, I don't know, all the brothel areas, red light areas of our city, of our country. So, where does it come from? From where? At what age? How does it come? Who distorts it? Is it the same thing that is shown in Bollywood?

A little bit. In Bollywood, it is a little more sensationalized, a little romanticized. But actually, the stories stories are similar. Tell me a basic story which is common in all. Not common in all Raj. Give me 2-3 stories. If I talk about 3000 women, then every woman's story is very different. The two girls whom we rescued, they both used to live on GB road, always. They have lived in a hut. Their room, bathroom, the bathroom of the hut, had stairs.

And there was a small room on the stairs, where she lived. So when an auntie went to the bathroom, she would say, don't come down. So she would stay upstairs. And she would look out the window, that when auntie goes out, I will go down. So she has seen her childhood like this. Until she was 9-10 years old. when she came to us in Kolkata.

How did she come to GV Road? Her mother was in this profession. Her mother had a family business. So, we have a community called Bedia Community here, which is near Rajasthan and MP.

In Madhya Pradesh.

So, there are people from Bedia Community. So, this is their business. They say that our girls come by their choice. But now, when I have been seeing for so many years. That Neemach belt you are talking about, Bedia is that?

Which belt? Neemach area in Madhya Pradesh.

Reshampura and Gwalior and all these areas. Uttar Pradesh, Gwalior. Yes, on the border. Gwalior and all these are connected to each other. So, her mother came from there. So, first she must have worked there in her village. And then she came to GB Road. So, her son, everyone was here.

There were other women from her village. So, that house was of the women of her village, majorly. So, our two daughters were there, grown up and the younger one, she was five when she started coming to me, maybe less than that, four and a half, five years old, she was learning to speak new words and the older one was nine years old, something. But when she started studying in Katkat, I came and her dreams started coming true.

And then she started saying that we will not do this and the other women started having problems how is your daughter talking like this so she used to call our elder daughter she was little dark she used to call her Kallo Kallo

Kallo no one will take you Kallo you will get less money somewhere the child starts understanding when he stays in that so now this story happened with him, when you asked what kind of stories are there.

So, he was born in such a place. She grew up in a brothel. So, if Katkatha had not come, then she had no exposure. She never went to school. She doesn't even know.

She only sees that if I am a girl and my mother has done this, all a girl and my mom is doing this, all the aunties around me are doing this, then I have to do the same. She would have known when she would have hit 17-18 years in her life. And until then she is told that you have chosen this with your own will. So people in that community tell little girls, either you get married,

if you get married, you will have to do the household chores, cook, or do the laundry. Otherwise, you'll get a job, you'll get beautiful clothes, you'll get new gifts every day, you'll get a chance to dance, you'll get a chance to travel. If you give both options to a 9 or 10 year old girl, what will she choose? Of course, she'll choose this, because she doesn't know what she has to give in return. Nobody is telling her. But these are the first girls in her village.

Now the girls have started dreaming.

Because they have become examples.

So now Kallo has become a role model in her village. But she is still silent. Even now the girls are raising their voices very silently. That I also want to study But even now, the voices there are so strong that they don't let the voices of the girls come out

But what age do they put them in sex work?

If you look at GB Road, if a sister is already in sex work and her daughter is born then the owner takes the daughter at that time

But by 18, 19, does it no, no, 11, 12. They start having sex. Yeah. 11 year old. Yeah.

11 year old. And they get a lot of money.

I have heard about the hormonal injections and all of that I have heard.

Yeah, they start giving them. So by the time they reach 14, 15, you will think that the girl is 23, 24 years old, 25 years old. Because her body is formed like this. The younger the girl, the more money you'll get.

How else? If someone's family is not even on the road, then a lot of people come from outside. How do they get stuck in this?

They are different. For example, there are people who are 18-19 years old. There is another sister who tells her story that her husband married her in the village. Proper marriage. He got married in a very grand manner. She had a child.

She had her first child. She was 18 and a half at that time. Her husband came and said that we will live in Delhi. They took a room in a place called Bajanpura in Delhi He stayed there for a year, a happy family He had not given birth yet, but he did

He was an 18-day-old baby He brought him to the cottage He said, my baby is crying here I am seeing my husband, he is leaving The baby is crying, and he was walking home. He was taking 21,000 or 22,000 rupees in my name and he got down.

I mean, I didn't understand what was happening. He had no idea because he belonged to a village where he had never heard of such things. So, there is no awareness in our country. I mean, we think there is a lot of awareness. But actually, if you go to a village, there is no awareness. And she said, he got off.

And I'm screaming, shouting, and they started hitting me. That he's gone now, selling you. Now you don't need to cry. Now this is your home. Today she is 58. And not yet?

Not yet. 58. And not till now? Not till now. So why can't you get out of there?

No, it's not easy. The world of a brothel is very complicated.

Tell me why? Today, a fraction of society thinks that you make one phone call, the police will come. There's internet. Of course, the police will come. The police will come, there is internet, you can reach out to anyone, people will help you.

They can get out of the brothel, you can get help. This is what a fraction of society believes. So why can't we get out?

A sister tried to get out. There are many such stories on GB Road. And there were so many Dalals down there. And they recognized them. So the police officers are also part of this nexus. And they were recognized.

They were brought up. And on GB Road, you will see that there are straight stairs. The stairs were straight, like the British. You would feel like you're going to die. I pushed her down the stairs. She rolled down the stairs. She died on the stairs.

The lady asked if anyone you want to run away? Her dead body was picked up and taken away So that's what I'm telling you, we are living in a very content world but actually if we talk about it, they have traumatized their brain in such a way and have made them slaves in such a way that they can't even think.

They are scared.

Absolutely.

But I get most of the people can't do it because of fear.

The police don't help. The police are a part of this whole process.

In every place, in every area, generation after generation,

not every police officer can be involved. The police officers, I have 15 years ago heard the name of a police officer who was trying to work. So they are transferred.

These people.

In every city, the country is moving so far. So, they are transferred. To such people.

In every city, the country is moving so much.

Collect DMs are happening. A collector comes. More important than important.

High-paced officers come. More important than important. Big, big, very honest people are moving forward. Who solve a lot of problems of the country, which were very bad before, which were not there 15 years ago,

are being solved today. If we are talking so openly, like GB Road, every area, every area of every city, everyone knows about it.

So, the police of every area can pay attention to it. It's not like they call the same person who is with those people in one area. Can't the other people do anything? There is no honest person.

I haven't met anyone in 15 years. I have seen only one DM who used to come in COVID. I have never seen any DM. For the first time, I am seeing Nigam Parshad, who has just come to our place, trying. I am telling you about the last 15 years.

I went to the MLA and he told me straightly that, Are the brothels still running madam? Close them. I said, Sir, you've been an MLA for 10 years. How can you ask me this question?

That the brothels are still running. When there was a fire in the middle of the night 16 cylinders were blown up a whole brothel was burnt to ashes I saw only one or two government officials there that night just one or two

they came to see if anyone was dead after that, what was their condition their compensation the NGOs kept fighting. But because those women don't have any ID cards, they are not counted in our data.

Why?

Because they don't have anything. If they are kidnapped or sold, then they don't have time to take the documents. They were kidnapped. So, they don't have any documents. Whereas, our Supreme Court has said that every sex worker should have all the documents. But when they go to get it made, they are asked 10 types of questions

which they don't have answers to. We are trying to work with the government. If a good officer comes, he helps. But if no one comes, then again it's a long journey. It's a battle. And it should not be a battle in a country like ours,

where we are talking so much about success, and empowering of women, empowering of children, which you are saying should be there. But it's a grey area. I am waiting for a politician to rise up.

So why don't they do it? Money?

To make someone rise. Everyone are making money from the streets. When a girl comes, it's not just the brothel owner who is earning. The police are earning, politicians are earning, everyone is earning. So, the brothels are running and they are getting paid.

Even one?

What can one do, Raj?

A politician must have come at least once.

Yes, a politician has have come at least once.

Yes, politicians have come. I am waiting. He hasn't come yet. I am not looking.

Have you ever talked to the clients who come? Absolutely, many times. Why do they do this? Why do they come? Why are they going and paying. They know that you exploited them so much

and brought them here like this.

No, like this.

I mean, they don't have that much time to talk to you.

But you know it's like a reality in the world. No one comes unaware like this. What does she think?

The way the girls must be sitting openly, you will feel that they are sitting as per their wish. If the girls are sitting there openly, you will feel that they are sitting there willingly. Madam, who are you to refuse? Ask her, do you want to come with me?

Yes, I want to come. Look, she is asking you to come. So how can you say that you don't want to go?

But the boys know the fact that she has been beaten so much, she has been trained so well, she has been exploited so much, she has been tortured so much. and then she is saying yes to you happily.

No, I don't know.

If a girl is standing on the road, is it for fun?

But boys think that they are having fun. Let's go to the brothel to celebrate your birthday. Let's celebrate your birthday in a brothel.

Are people genuinely unaware or do they ignore it?

We will have to talk to people about it.

Have you ever asked her?

I have also got to people about that. Have you ever asked? I have also got many volunteers. And as soon as a new volunteer comes, I ask them if they have ever climbed in a brothel. Yes, we have climbed in a brothel. But we have never paid for sex. Then why did you climb? My friend was doing it. I was waiting downstairs.

I was standing outside. I was watching. But why did you go? Why did you climb? I was waiting downstairs, I was standing outside, I was watching But why did you go? Why did you climb? I said, sister, we also want to see that world When we enter the new DU in college So going to GB Road in the first year itself becomes a big wow factor

That you have never climbed a hut? Hey, you have seen what is in life So we have to see it, we don't want to be, we don't want to stay behind, we don't want to look uncool that you have never climbed in a cottage, you have never seen that life, you have never bought sex, oh my god, how is that possible in life?

Really?

So that's what, no matter...

Bought sex is cool?

Yeah.

For real? Yes, I mean, I don't know why you're talking like this. No, because I don't know. I didn't meet him. I haven't heard from any guy. And I'm just... I have a lot of friends who come from a lot of... from areas like this, who are from a lot of villages, a lot of villages,

a lot of poor people, I have a lot of friends. I mean, my friends are sons of farmers, sons of milkmen, from there to Billionaires. I have huge friends, Pratap. No one has ever said to me that buying sex is so cool. I have never heard.

I have never heard anyone say that in a time pass conversation. I don't know why. If you are saying it's so cool.

I have heard it. I have heard it on my school days. I have heard it in Delhi. Two of my friends were saying that if you go daily, you will die of AIDS. This was the dialogue. And I was like, what are you talking about? It's not about you. You go. That was my 10th class, on my friend's birthday.

I heard this in the evening, while talking to my friend.

I know the most ill-mannered people. And genuinely when I'm saying it, I think they're cool.

They're inhuman people.

There's a lot of them.

There are definitely, but I think it's after one age, is it?

No, it's not like that.

Because you're talking about college students. I've seen boys 14-15 years old. A cute Sardar came in school uniform in a Nikkur.

15 years old?

Yes, such a cute Sardar. I saw him and I thought, where did he come from? He didn't come by mistake. He had brought Rs. 200. And didi kept his Rs. 200 and slapped him and sold him. She said, why did you keep your Rs. 200? You should have gone to someone else.

So, madam, we have to fix these boys. I will keep the money that he has come here. So, he should remember. to How did you even think of doing this? I don't know. I see a lot of boys in college. A lot.

But when you talk to them, they are like, we want to do this.

No. They always say the same thing. Where should we go? So we give them an honorarium in Dream Village. Which is very minimum.

I am talking about the boys. The clients. What do they say?

It is normal for them Raj.

You and I are sitting here and talking and we are saying that the awareness of those boys or anything

Going to the brothel is very normal.

Yes, for them it is like, yes.

For them it is a

daily, I mean some boys feel like they have to go to the brothel daily. I have to Some guys just want to go to the brothel everyday. I want to do it. I want it. After office, they come with their corporate bags and then go home.

Is it more common in caste communities? No, it's not like that. Is it?

I haven't seen any caste community in GB Road.

No, no. like sex workers. Are they from specific caste, specific community? Poverty.

Because where there is no awareness.

Is there any region where...

More girls come. I haven't seen any girl from Punjab on GB road. I have seen many girls from Andhra, West Bengal, Nepal, Bangladesh, Rajasthan, Madhya Pradesh. I have seen many girls from all these places. But I have not seen any girl from Jammu and Kashmir. I have seen girls from North East but not many.

There are many girls from Nepal but not a lot. I have seen a lot of Nepal, but not a lot of Northeast. I have seen a lot of GB Road, but not a lot. I won't say there is, but there is not a lot. But the poorest villages in every city are there. What top cities or states? West Bengal and Andhra Pradesh are two top or in Delhi. Sabse zyada women waha se aati hai. Rajasthan se bahut aati hai.

Kyuki Rajasthan mein toh it's a acceptable profession. Aisa wo log bolte hain ki humari ladkiyaan khudi chunti has. So, it's an acceptable profession. So, it comes from there.

It is still acceptable.

Yes, I told you, my daughters are still being taken care of.

Now, like so much education is there. Have phones reached there?

Yes, absolutely.

There are smartphones too. And after having smartphones, after having so much information about the world,

is the profession still acceptable? Yes. We have a sister who lives in Dream Village. It was last year. The hotel where I am staying now, she came with me. We were nominated for an award. Her daughter also came. Her daughter was 14-15 years old then.

Now she is 15-15 years old. And when she came, we came by flight. And her daughter posted her photos and was very happy, it was her first flight and all So she got a call from the kotho in front of me You said you won't put her in business

So why are you taking her to Bombay? To get her circumcised Circumcision is the first night when you allow a man for the girl It is called circumcision She said, no, I don't want to put my daughter in the business.

Then why are you taking her to Bombay? In Bombay, the same thing happens in the beginning. So, even today, she had to fight her community. Even now, the whole community has thrown her out. You didn't put your daughter in the business, so you are breaking our business so you're ruining our business.

You're ruining our culture. Today, her daughter wants to become a fighter. She studies in one of the best schools. Such bright girls.

How do parents and parents prepare for their children?

There is no father. Like, there is no husband or husband of this sister. It was just a customer who fell in love with her.

But does the community accept? If there is a community, then there are both parents. In that community where it is so acceptable, how do parents accept that they want their daughter?

Yes.

It's normal. Even brothers. If sisters don't do it, then they feel that what are you doing in life? You have to run the house. That's why I said, disown her from her family. What's the brutal truth about the red light area? I am doing Beti Bachao and daughters are being sold there every day and we are buying and we are a part of it but we have created an image that we are working for the empowerment of girls

I told you, a 11 year old girl if she has to do business day and night, if she has to sell her body and you are... for me, Beti Bachao, Beti P and for me a utopian world is going on generally because I am living among such people

where they are fighting for basic food and our government is talking big and people are talking big people often say to me

that we will support you, we will fund you but get 500 girls out I know her, I have known her for 15 years. I know her, I have known her for 15 years. I know her, I have known her for 15 years. I know her, I have known her for 15 years. I know her, I have known her for 15 years. I know her, I have known her for 15 years. I know her, I have known her for 15 years and I know that she doesn't want to live there but still she is one of the owners of a brothel.

She wanted to make her daughter a doctor, she was sent to Tihar 4-5 years ago under some case. So she got her daughter married out of fear that I don't know what will happen to my daughter. How will it be? Now he has locked her up again in jail. And this is only because she hurt the ego of one of the policemen.

When I was coming to Bombay yesterday, his daughter called me. She said, Didi, he beat my mother so much. He hit my mother with sticks so hard. I didn't see the end of it.

Why?

Ego.

What ego?

She wouldn't have agreed to anything. She wouldn't have sent the money. Or something else would have happened.

It's illegal.

Brothel keeping is illegal. Sex work is not illegal. If you are an adult, you are above 18, and you are doing it out of your own choice. And if someone is not keeping your money with them, so it's legal, you can do it.

Yes, I mean, pimping is illegal, brokers are in between, that is illegal.

And building a house at one place where you are running that house and there are a lot of girls there, that brothel, that is illegal. Yeah. But if you are an independent woman or man and you want to take money and have sex with someone directly, that is legal. That is legal. And you are doing it privately, you are not soliciting in a public place. That is legal. But brothels are illegal, that is still going on. What do you think? Do you think it should be legalized? I don't believe in the legal system of our country. Why? It's very clear. It's illegal now, but business is going on.

And everyone knows that. If our law is not strong now, and we are still working despite being illegal, how can we guarantee that when it becomes legal, the fear that they hide of hiding the little girl or doing something like that, I think that will be completely gone.

Now, they are a little afraid of the owners of the brothel. Then they will run the business openly. They will not have any fear. So, if what we say that if it becomes legal, they will get their rights, they will get their cards, they will be organized.

Those who wish to do it will do it. No, the people who are forced will move away because legally they can just go to the police and be like,

get out of this way. It won't happen. I'm asking. But even now they are not able to go to the police. It is illegal.

Yes, because it is illegal now and everything is done according to money. If it is legal later, maybe somebody can fight. Do you think? I am asking because I was reading a report. Crime rate in those countries, crime against women and rape rates, in which countries prostitution has become legal. So, child trafficking, human trafficking, sex exploitation, rapes, crime against women, all of these.

So, the European countries that have the most crime, because there are many countries in Europe where it is legal, so, it is like, the countries where it is illegal, there is 11%

crime and the ones that are legal, only 3% I feel that after legalization it's like there is a gap that some people will definitely benefit from legalization but the under the cover things that are going on even if it is legal, they will sell a 12 year old girl

but do you think crimes, rapes will be less?

I feel that it's like, people often say this to me, our sisters also say this on GB Road, that we are here, so you are safe. You are not being raped. This thought in itself is so...

I mean, my... It's like, if I have a sister, she is telling me, look, I will get myself raped, so that you can survive. And we are talking about girls empowerment. So that is my general question that have we accepted that this work will never end?

Have we accepted? A lot of people tell me it's the largest, like oldest profession.

Oldest profession in the world is sex.

But it wasn't a profession, profession. It was taken very respectfully at one point of time. We used to look at courtesans and courtesans very respectfully.

They were very artistic.

Yes, but today they are not. So why are we agreeing that the need of boys is so strong that they will definitely be violent. So make sex workers and put them in the courts otherwise their violence will be on their wives and sisters. We have accepted it. This means we have become a debt society. We are saying that this will definitely happen.

See around the world this is true. This is not about India. This is around the world, this is true. This is not about India. This is around the world. It's not a men and women issue. Because in the world, women are into this, that's why it's a women issue. It's human greed. It's rude.

It's bad. So, what we have believed and what we have not, is a conversation. It's a reality of the world that yes, there are some people who are bad. I am asking, is there a solution to better them? Because emotional level, humanitarian level is horrible.

What you said, that we have already accepted the dead society, that the boys have become so bad that they will be so violent, that do this or else they will destroy the society. That's a very good thought to have. So, correct the boys. That's true. But now the reality is, let's face that.

That in this change, in the change of society, in making boys better, and in making bad people better, in making crooked people better, it took time. Today, in whichever society, in every country, whenever decriminalization has happened of sex workers, prostitution, there has been a drop in women against crime. Like in the US, it's illegal now, but in the US, there was an experiment in Rhode Island, around 1989, I guess, it was 1980s where 30% drop came in crime against women when it was decriminalized.

Then it was criminalized in 2009 and went up again. In New Zealand, overall sex workers' health, HIV cases, conditions, trafficking, everything got better when they decriminalized it. So, this has happened in Europe, in the US, in New Zealand when they decriminalized it. So, this has happened in Europe, in the US, in New Zealand, it is getting better in many countries.

So, I am asking you from that point of view. But in India, it is legal if a girl is above 18 years of age. We are not considering it illegal. So, you are telling me that a girl above 18 years of age is not being committing a crime?

I am asking you.

It is happening. You are seeing it in films and in real life.

Because brothels are illegal now.

Yes, brothels are illegal. But how many people go to brothels now? Our sisters literally cry that no one comes to brothels. Now in every house, in every hotel, on the phone, everywhere people are available, right? With all the new apps. And is that legal? If you are 18 and above

and if you are doing it, it's legal, right?

No one does anything to you?

No one can do anything. But what not? How is that possible? We don't bother the police. If they get caught, we still harass them. We still don't ask that woman, are you doing it on your own will? So, I am telling you that there is no answer to this question.

And there is no legal or illegal battle in our race. Yes, because it is legal. If a woman above 18 years is doing it on her own will, then it is legal. But isn't she being charged? If you tell me this according to the data,

I will say, okay, let's make it legal. But he is being charged.

How is he being charged? Explain me this. How?

Because the mentality is still the same. No, like you said, people go to GB Road and these courthouses. Okay. You told me that they are sold, they are thrown out. Now, the people who are independently going to hotels and all of these things are happening, 18 and above, how do they get into this? How do they get into this? Yes. How do they start? Out

of choice? Out of choice. Lot of people. How many percent will be voluntarily? See, I don't work with them much. It is a very guess. But I think 50-60 percent will be there voluntarily. How does a girl become a part of this? Because if we talk about colleges, if this one girl is into it, she will tell her friends that it's fun, we'll go with men. We'll spend the night, have fun in a good hotel. And if you want to join in, come join in without looking at the risks. But she joins and she knows where she is going.

If something happens after that, then it's an accident. It's fate. Suppose a boy has paid for it, but five boys came and they raped the girl, then that is an incident. But otherwise, he knows that I am going into business, I will use condoms, I will go at this time, I will come back at this time, I will wear this, these will be my demands This will be very straightforward for me I will have this much money But Yeah, so she has that legal right

But if the police catch that girl Then what is the problem in our country? It is written in our country That the client is a criminalizer The client will be considered a criminal

But in any such case Which I see Especially on GB Road, where it should be followed, there too, the woman is considered a criminal. The woman is not considered a victim.

Whereas, the law says that in such cases, the woman is the victim and the customer is the criminal because he is buying sex. But the customer is allowed to go just like that. Yes, you go, we will call you. because he's buying sex but customer to Why not the client? No, that culture is not in our country. I have not seen a client getting caught. If they catch the client,

in some cases, they keep the client as God. If the client goes down and tells the story, we had a kid in the cottage, he has grown up now, he had recorded in the cameras.

He had a new shock, he had recorded on the phone, and it was a police recording The police officer came and he was talking to the owner The client is standing downstairs, he is saying that he took 20,000 rupees You stole 20,000 rupees from him

So he is not crying, he is saying that he took only 2,000 rupees So he is saying that he is saying 20,000 rupees Now either you give me 20,000000 or you go to the police station. Actually, I took only Rs. 2,000. But the police officer has called that client. I'll go up and ask for Rs. 20,000.

I'll take Rs. 12,000 and you take Rs. 8,000. Just leave quietly. And this whole thing has been recorded.

What happened after that?

I went to the DCP and he told me that, Son, it's a grey area. We can't enter into it. We only work in white and black. It's a grey area.

What is grey in this? Is it a crime?

No, it's not a crime according to him. He said that there is no legal thing happening there. There is no crime happening there. There is no crime being committed. There is a discussion going on. The government will do something about it. We will just make sure that there is no crime on GB road.

No beatings, no murders, no thefts. This is our job. We can do protection. The police said Rs. 20,000 and did this. This is not a crime. It's corruption. Corruption is not crime. Corruption is crime. Extortion is crime.

Two people together taking money from a third person is a crime.

It's a different world Raj. When I went for the first time, I could not sleep for four days. I couldn't believe that such a life can be someone's.

Tell me a day in life. In the life of a sex worker who lives in a brothel.

Every day is a different day. I mean, they live in a different way in every brothel. But if I tell you in general, the brothel where I have spent many years of my life, there are two groups of women there. One group of women who stay awake all night and sleep all day. They come back to the cottage around 7 in the morning and eat rice with some curd or chicken.

They will sleep and wake up at 3-4 in the afternoon. After that they will eat something, take a bath, wash her face and then she will do her makeup for 2 to 2.5 hours and when you see it happens a lot that I can't recognize her

she gets transformed while doing her makeup she will look like she is in depression and suddenly she will look so beautiful I have seen this many times.

Then she picks up the makeup nicely. Around 8.30 or 9.30 in the evening. Then she goes down to the road and then she brings the clients up. In between. And then the client goes and then she gets down. All the rooms are dedicated?

No, no, there are dedicated rooms which are called encounter rooms. So there are 3-4 rooms in every quarter. In some quarters where there is more clientele, there are more rooms. So they take you to those rooms. They spend 10-12-13 minutes and then the customer pays and then the customer goes back. rooms So, you will find tea vendors all night on GB Road. And you will find a lot of tobacco because they have to get rid of sleep. So, they will get tobacco.

So, these are some such brothels. Then there are some brothels which open at 11 in the morning. It will open at 11, there will be some people inside, they will clean it with water. If you climb at 11, it feels like you will fall down. Like I shared, there are steep stairs.

You will slip and fall. It will be all wet. There will be a prayer. There will be a prayer in every room. There will be sunlight. There will be no negativity in the rooms.

And then the doors will open. Around 12-12.30. Then the ladies will get up and get ready two batches again and they sit down. Those girls are not allowed to come down. So in every room

there is a separate game in which there are a lot of young girls they don't come down. Why? Because they are afraid that they will run away or they will give a signal to someone so they will stay up. They are not allowed to come down.

That woman will come down. The woman who has grown up and has surrendered and has accepted that she is his girlfriend. No, no, the old age is not 40. Old age is 23-24. Because the girl started this business at 11-12 years. So by 22-23 years, she becomes a trained professional sex worker.

By then, she has had 2-3 children. She knows how to take the customer, what to do, what kind of fights to do. The room where she kept me, she told me, don't open the door all night. Otherwise, we will start saving you. We won't be able to do our job. You have to stop, you stop, we will stop

What do you mean by start saving? If a customer tells me that he wants this And started fighting Then they say that we will start saving you And if the police comes, you will also go inside together Because at that moment, the police don't listen to anything

When they come in the moment of the raid They come in that emotion,, they don't listen to anything. Then they beat us up. We just say that there should be peaceful raids. When I had my first raid experience, I got a call at 11.30-12 at night. I was working on a new GB road.

There was no cut. There was nothing. I used to go like this. Because I was working with NACO. So people started know me there. So I got a call at 11.30 at night from one of the most popular brothels

of a sister that this girl is calling you to the police station. She took the name of that girl and she is saying that call Gitanjali and call her and get me released. And I went to the police station And there were three or four of us sitting in front of the police station Among them were the NGOs And there was another girl with them And she came in with her hand shaking like this

And she said, Sir, this time the news was not right So she said, Sir, I think they have done something wrong And now the conversation is going on The NGO people thought I was with the police The police thought I was with the NGO people and I was sitting there quietly as a spectator I mean I am not new to anyone, no one knows me

So suddenly the police and I was stupid, I said, Sir, how did you raid at night? You don't know, when you are doing all this in your youth, you think that I am the only one and I will change the world and do everything. So I asked, where did you come from? So he looked at the NGO guy and said,

is he with you? He said, no, he is with you. No, he is not with me either. He said, Madam, we had no objection. We can do raids at night If we have women And if we are careful in that raid If nothing wrong is happening And he told me to go out

And give me your card I didn't have any card I had nothing So my friend who went with me I told him to give me his card And he was working with a very big NGO

So he gave me his card He did some research and they said you are a big NGO So he gave his card So he did some research And people said that he is a very big NGO I won't take the name So they sent me out respectfully Otherwise, they would have said something to me But I came to know the reality in that raid

The girl who called me I met her outside She was in a petticoat I remember she was wearing a beautiful light blue Sky blue color blouse and a petticoat I remember she was wearing a beautiful light blue sky blue color gloves and a petticoat and I said where is your sari? We will not wear a sari. They will take us to the court and we will go to the court like this.

And she was very beautiful and I said why? She said because I am not 18 years younger than her. You know that. But when they raid, they don't look at at me. They pushed me down the stairs. My sari was undone. I kept screaming. Let me buy a sari. They slapped me on the face and put me in the car. Now I won't wear a sari.

They will take me naked. And one of them was pregnant. And she had an abortion in that same raid.

But we say

legally that when raids happen, it should be female, and you have to go respectfully, you don't have to harm them. All of this is just written. Nothing happens. I'm not looking at the streets. I just told you, when the girl called yesterday, that she has beaten her mom so much, so much with a stick been beaten so badly,

I have not seen a single tear. So make it legal, make it legal. When the system is so corrupt.

And what all goes, like I was watching this one movie, I think it was very dangerous, it showed reality, I am sure reality is more dangerous than that. Love Sonia. Yeah. But in this movie, like what I saw, that this is not daily life.

Daily life is 50 things more than this. That everyday they give you different types of injections so that your hormones grow. So that is why you go through the pain of that. Then you have to eat and drink, everything is nonsense.

They don't even give.

They don't even give. You go through the pain of that. Then, the clients, they have stupid demands. Someone likes to hit, someone misbehaves, someone hits someone with a belt.

Someone has to put on sixpots.

Someone has to smoke. Like that happens. So, you get a lot of torture. Not just sex, like 50 things happen to you. Then when all this happens, You are again almost close to an abortion. Then they forcefully do the operation. Then they give you pills 50 times so that you don't have this or that.

Then you have to do abortions many times. Life is just not that you are locked up in jail and you have to have sex again and again. Apart from that, you have to do 50 things. You have to do abortion 50 times. You have to do abortion 50 times. You have to do sex again and again.

There are 50 other things, which is brutal. That's what I saw in the movie. And then, if you look a little pretty, then you are sold to another country. Then, you have to go through operations again and again. After doing all this, you just keep playing with yourself.

Yeah.

And that's a day in a ray. And I spoke to somebody who's an activist as well. And I was telling him that in movies, how many people are involved? I was like, everyone is involved every day. It's not even a question of who's involved. It's just how many times is the question being asked

And you feel all of this habit?

When we went to see Love Soniya, we booked PVR And we took a lot of our sisters I could not stop them from crying after the movie. They cried like hell for 2-2 hours And if you see those sisters in that way, they will look so happy, so strong.

And after that movie, they broke up like this. And they said, why did you bring this movie to us? Because they feel that we have lived that pain. In such movies, you show us that pain again. So even now, in our dream village, where all our sisters live, they have a lot of complaints from me.

That the therapist comes and she keeps making us say the same things again and again. To make them understand that if the sister doesn't come out, she won't move. Because somewhere or the other, you have kept her. So, you have to remove the trauma. It is very difficult. Many of my sisters are against this for me. On GB Route.

That if you go there, they keep on making you say the same things. Now how do I make them understand this? Sister, somewhere you have to let go. Those things. And you need help for that. You won't be able to do it on your own.

But it must be so hard. It is. You said something which is

cigarette butts. In China, they put cigarette butts to burn it. They get fun out of it. When didi shouts and cries. There was a case, recently I

got to know that he hit didi so much badly that she died.

He killed her. And he left.

He left the brothel. And all the women thought that he was sleeping inside. But he didn't leave the house till the next day. When the sisters saw him, they had his throat completely choked with a scarf. And where did he go?

I don't know.

He was a client

So how can he murder? But it happened

So there, I feel Sometimes when I see people On one hand I'm struggling How can we make our world Little more loving And little more humble

But when I see those people there, it doesn't make a difference to them for life. There are rates of life there. There is money there. Everyone wants to do anything with her. I can confidently take a little girl inside, beat her,

abuse her, do whatever I want to do. Underage. Now things are changing a little in some brothels. A little. Some owners who have been arrested, I vouch for that owner. How big is this business? I think it's the world's second largest economy which gives.

It's huge.

It has a lot of money. That's why it's running. That's why it's running. That's why it's running.

Who all make money? What are the stakeholders?

I think starting from politicians to the Dalal's in the middle, to policemen who are identifying the girl in the village. They can be rich people. Generally, I have heard that there are women,

majorly old women, who are identifying. When the girls come in the train, the coach, TTs, they are all involved. If a girl is unconscious, if a girl is coming in the train unconscious in a 28-hour journey, then obviously, TT knows that this girl is going here like this. Then, whoever is connected to the railway station and then the owners of the brothels

and the small owners under the owners so everyone has money, that's why everyone is quiet I have experienced that the police know that a small girl is coming they know that a girl is coming. But I have also heard in Kolkata that now they are not bringing little girls in Kolkata. But I am not sure about it.

They are coming to Delhi.

So what is the fix? How do we fix this? Today this state is very bad. In this, the boys are also at. I am not talking about victims, I am talking about those who are being sold. Men and women, both more men than women. It is the fault of the system. It is the fault of the communities and their culture that have been going on for years. A lot of people are mixed in this.

And the lawmakers are also at fault. What's the fix now? What's the fix? their culture, it's their fault. A lot of people are mixed in this. And the lawmakers are at fault. What's the fix now?

How can we shift the mentality? Of what? Of everybody who is thinking that we can get girls into this business. We need this business in our country. We need brothels in our country.

We are so powerful. I am so powerful that I can buy a girl for 2 lakhs. And I can sell her. So, there was a shift.

How will you shift?

By talking about it.

Will people change by talking about it?

I think that you just told me. We are talking on the podcast right now, I am getting a lot of DMs on Instagram, I can show you that I want to marry a sex worker, please get me married to a nice girl. But has this ever happened before? I get a lot of DMs from lawyers that we want to work on this. But this issue has always been there.

Why is it now? Because you are talking, spreading awareness, so more people want to listen. Because we are talking, we are saying that the girls there, they want to break the cage. If you can become their voice.

They want to be heard. They want someone to come in and listen to them.

So how can they help? Let's say you work in this. Now, if you want to help 0.01% of the viewers, or a lot of people want to help, I don't know, if you want to help one person, how can they reach out to you?

How can they reach out to us? We have our website, we have our Instagram, they can reach out to us. People volunteer with us you reply to all Instagram? yes yes yes I try to put your details here yes yes description yes we reply to everyone. But those who come to us in this way, we definitely reply to them.

And if there are more people, let's say lawyers, volunteers, if lawmakers are watching this, politicians are watching this, entrepreneurs are watching, people with money are watching, who have to fund, or fund, police, anyone can help.

There are people, if they want to help, they can directly reach out to you.

Yes, of course.

And they can help and become part of this. And everyone can work on this in their own space. Like for an example, recently we got a mail, it is in Kashmir. And that person said, I want to replicate Katkatha's work in Kashmir because I can see that I have girls here and they are in all these things so we will be supportive but the problem is that like you said

there are many fundraisers for fundraising but I have often seen that many people do not come forward to fund our issue but if they come then we would want to go to every single place. I would also want this to happen in Kashmir. Why not? We would like to support what they want to do in Kashmir. People tell me that you are sitting at the destination,

why don't you go to the source stations? But it's like sometimes your realities keep telling you again and again that do as much as you are doing, then move ahead. But if people come to support and if people get up and say, we are with you, then I think I personally feel that we can finish the four sex work.

But if you keep doing this and talking about it, I'm sure a lot of people will go. Yeah. A lot of people will talk. I've seen in the past through the power of podcast. There are a lot of activists in our podcast.

There are a lot of people.

And they've raised crores of rupees just through podcast. And it's not even, we've run a fundraiser or something. They get phones randomly and people start TV. So, with someone, something or the other, whatever happens, the voice reaches them and they get touched. And mostly it happens that

a business woman or a business man who has earned a lot of money, and in their family or in their childhood, they have seen something like this. And now they are like, take this 10 crore rupees, take this 5 crore rupees, change it. We are there. And it happens a lot that

people message me that my salary is only 50,000 rupees. But I have seen this while being in my village. So, I want to give 500 rupees every month. Can I do a paytm to you? And I have seen that through podcast people have

turned around their life. Schools are open. People have given money to each school's budget. Just if this conversation reaches all the people.

Fingers crossed.

I hope it will reach.

For some people, Kotha is a different situation. But for me, that's home. And I have to stay away from that now because I have to raise funds. So, sometimes, literally, when I talk to God, there must be someone who will come and say, okay, your fundraising tension is away.

Now you're free. Your wings are open. Now you do it in the court. I feel like I will spend the day and night in the court. And then I know change is possible. But it's like, I know, I also feel that this is a part of the journey. It's a struggle and you have to go through it.

My audience believes in growth. They believe in moving forward. They are very touched and are very close to the country. And when people like you come and you tell them about your actual work, a lot of people want to join. So thank you so much for telling us everything.

Thank you. Thank you for having this topic on your podcast. We get used to taking stress in Bombay. And when we don't take it, we get stressed about why we don't get stressed in life.

I don't know that. My life in Bombay is a little different. So I don't feel stressed. I think I get stressed when I'm not in Bombay. Okay. I don't feel stressed. I think I get stressed when I'm not in Bombay. Because this is such a peaceful place for me.

But this could have happened anywhere, right?

Yes, but I think Bombay forces you to think big. It shows you big dreams. You can't grow up in Bombay. And that's the beauty of Bombay. The building I live in, there are joint families in that building.

There are nuclear families too. There are people who live alone. In this building, there are joint families, nuclear families, lonely people, couples who don't want to have kids, people who don't want to get married, don't want a partner, people who live with 4 dogs. Like, I live alone, I'm away from my house, so I don't care about work.

But if I had a bigger podcast, I would have known. So, the neighbor's aunt would say, I'll treat you to a party.

That's beautiful.

Thank you so much for watching this episode till the end. Now you have to do 3 things. First of all, subscribe to this channel. Because the more you subscribe, the more valuable and better guests we will be able to bring for you. Number 2, tell me in the comments what you liked and what you didn't like in this episode. So that we don't repeat those mistakes. And which guests you want to see on our podcast again

so that we can bring them and give you more value. And no. 3, do share this episode with at least one person because one conversation can change someone's life. because one conversation can change someone's life. I'll see you next time. Until then, keep figuring out. ♪♪♪