Liverpool’s Iraola Move, Arsenal’s UCL Regret & Carrick’s United Fix | The Overlap Fan Debate

I think it was a tactical masterclass that, at the end of the day...It wasn't.

You guys act like Saka's the second coming of Jesus and complete about two passes in the whole game.

Slott was the man for next season, but my question is, what actually happened in the last week or ten days?He sort of threw it all out the window and go, we don't want him anymore.I would change the manager, but...

I'd have changed him for Xabi Alonso.Top of the league with, I think, four or five games to go is a little bit of a bossful job.

I'd say a bottle job personally is going up 1 -0 in two European Cup finals and losing them both.It comes down to Sullivan.

He promised us Champions League and delivered the championship.

I think Pep Guardiola is the best manager we've had in the Premier League, but obviously the debate is, is it Pep Guardiola, is it, say, Alex Ferguson?Honestly, you haven't been around as long as I have.Villa are as big a club as anybody in the Premier League.What he's done in the Europa League is unbelievable.but you don't want to be known as the Europa League, man.

You're going to learn what it's like to be a real football fan now, son.And that's how I feel for you, because your head's a bit in the sand and it's going to get real quick.

At no point in our tatters reign anyway.So the new team we're talking about has it?Not a Champions League one, is it?That one's silver, mate.

Hello and welcome back to the Fan Debate, brought to you by Sky Bet.I'm really glad to welcome Shea Gibbon back to the couch.So, Shea, glad to have you back.Before we get going with the supporters, What have you made of this season and also what has been your favourite moment?

Well, you've got to congratulate Arsenal, haven't you?Have you?Well, you do, you always congratulate the winners, don't you?It's been so long, I think.I was at second three years and then it bounced and I don't know, bottle jobs, call them what you want.But now you've got to say congratulations.

They got the job done, they got it over the line.and you have to give him great credit because whoever wins a league, you've got to say well done and yes people would argue it's not vintage Arsenal or it's not a vintage Premier League this season perhaps but I don't care how you get the job done, you get it over the line and Arteta and his teamhave done that.So great credit to him for that.Maybe he'll adapt next season and try and play a bit more offensive football and try and play a bit more expansive maybe and add a few more flair players to the forward line and try and win it differently.But I think what confidence and belief that Arsenal get from this winning the league, then it'll be It'll hold him in good stead for next season.

I think it'll be, you know, for these players to get the belief they can go on and maybe do it again.I'm trying to think, moment of the season.What sticks out for a moment of the season?It's difficult, isn't it?Save.

Save of the season.

Probably Raya's save, I think it was at Brighton against Brighton.I think that save for me was phenomenal.Pickford deserves a mention in the one at Newcastle.Yeah, yeah.I tried not to mention that one but, as an ex -Sunderland player and obviously doing it up at Newcastle.But I think, Raya I think this season has been for me the standout goalkeeper and that save against Brighton was world class and I think for one of the reasons they won the league and I do believe that Raya has had a brilliant season and he's up there with some of the brilliant goalkeepers in the past at Arsenal.

Well your two answers were Arsenal, so let's start with Arsenal.We've got Matt the Arsenal fan.22 years without winning the Premier League, got it done, parade yesterday, look fantastic.All the Gooners out to celebrate and rightly so.But we'll start with the Champions League final from a couple of days ago, Matt.I mean, what's your feeling around losing the final?

How do you feel about it?

It was devastating, especially when you're that close.You know, you've done all the hard work and for it to come down to a couple of 12 -yard kicks, you know, we were on the verge of basically being Immortal.Immortality.And that's what hurts the most.Not so much the concept of losing, but how close we were to what could have been.I was there, and coming out the ground, obviously people were.

heartbroken, speechless, but everyone that I spoke to said that they were as proud as they were gutted.We know collectively as a fan base, like it's going to be dark tonight and light in the morning, that we will, this team will be back at some point sooner rather than later.There is belief amongst us.We're so together.I actually want to quote one of the board members, Ben Winston, who said, He remembers the feeling leaving Paris in 2006, but that was the end of an era and this is the beginning of one.And I think that the parade came at a good time because it gave the players time to reflect on what they've done, what they've achieved this season, despite it ending on a low.

And I think it showed them how, together, we all are, how connected this fan base are.

I was there covering the game and I had this feeling going into the game that everyone you spoke to with Arsenal fans, and I should make this point actually, flew out with Arsenal fans, flew back, saw them, I was there on Thursday, they were around us in the ground, they were absolutely brilliant.And the reason I say that is because Arsenal fans get so much stick, don't they, for being that fan base online.I think we probably should all remember that there's all cranks online, isn't there, from every set of supporters, including Arsenal, and my own.But the Arsenal fans absolutely were brilliant with me and our team all the way through, so I should mention that.But the feeling I got going into the game was not a free hit, but you were just so happy and relieved to get the chance The league done.And after the game, I saw some of your staff, I saw Stuart, the photographer, who's now my good friend after I gave him a bit of a stick a few years ago, and it was that feeling of like...

And then you had the parade yesterday, I've seen the scenes there, it didn't feel like there was that much disappointment, it didn't feel devastating.I've been a Liverpool fan the last five or six years, a couple of times lost Champions League finals, and it felt like it took me weeks to get over it as well.feel like that, and I think that's a good thing in a way.

Like you say, it wasn't a free hit but it would have just been the cherry on top.But there's, like I said, there's just a sense in us that we're just getting started and we will be back there soon.I think we'll be in Madrid next year, there's a bold prediction.

Okay, I'll ask you that because I want to get to know the nitty -gritty of the game and the performance.Do you think you can win the Champions League playing like that?

Listen, 100%.I think it was a tactical masterclass at the end of the day.

It wasn't.

You don't think so?

One shot on target, 20 % of the ball.

I'll tell you what, and you know what?I probably shouldn't have been so forthright there.If you win that, it's seen as a tactical masterclass.That's a Mourinho masterclass.And you think of how highly regarded...Brian Clough is in this country for what he did in the European Cup finals.

They wanted that type of way, they were that type of team.What I would say is, I don't know if it's our tether or it's the actual players you've got in your attack are not quite good enough.But you had a favourable run to get there.And then, obviously, you didn't lose to PSG.To not lose a game in the Champions League is unbelievable and not win it.But I just think you've got to get better attackers or you've got to go for it a little bit more.

But then, technically, knowing that we don't have the attack that PSG...I mean, their attack is as good as our defence, maybe you could say.Knowing that we haven't got that attacking threat like they do, you've got to adjust tactically and we did that and we held them to, you know, all they got was a penalty.I didn't really, I wasn't at any point thinking, oh, we're under the cosh here.I think it was a tactic and we convert our penalties and we win and it is a tactical masterclass.If you went at PSG, they would have exposed us like they did to Inter in the final last year, beating 5 -0.

You can't go toe -to -toe with something like that.They'll absolutely punish you on the attack.and I think we adapted brilliantly and it just wasn't...

Well when you say you adapted, that's been the criticism of Arsenal right throughout our test as time hasn't it?This wasn't a one -off game, this wasn't like a tactical sort of settle that we've not seen before and the probably question remains around it is, is it handbrake on or a lack of top -class players?Do you put that down to the manager or over those players because when you look at the first half and I find it difficult to have a go at Arsenal because they won the league and as I said you didn't lose a game in the Champions League and you've took PSG to penalties but when I was watching the first half they didn't create a chance but I was watching it thinking you've still got to make a few passes you've still got to have a bit of if you're the best team in England and they're the best team in Europe There shouldn't be such a gulf in actually the idea with the ball and it was only once I think in the first half and I saw Miles Lewis -Skelly get the ball and he ran through midfield and played it wide and I thought, I know you're not going to dictate the game, they're better than you to get that but it shouldn't be such like where you couldn't keep the ball for two passes and you were on the edge of your own box.A Champions League final shouldn't be like that.

We were letting them have it.

Why let them have it?

Because it was working until it didn't.We gave away a cheap penalty that didn't need to be done.We didn't concede an actual in -play goal in the moment.

But you had one shot on target in the game.

But this was the game plan, Jamie.We got to penalties.If you would have told me before, you want to go to a penalty shoot -out, I would have bit your hand off for it.It worked.

You think it's a missed opportunity.I think the tactical plan was really good actually.And I do believe that... to a certain degree there was a missed opportunity there.I say that because obviously Dembele was off, Carvis Kelly was off, Marquinhos was off an extra time.And I think this is an opportunity now for Arsenal to go, tell you what, we don't want to go to penalties, we can do something in -game.But I don't think there was ever that belief within the game that they could go and do something.

I mean, Lloris was a struggle up front, he really struggled to do anything, any impact off the bench, I think he really struggled.If you can get someone in that area, you can be a different team.

I agree with that, I actually thought they were going to win it an extra time, when you actually saw the players on the pitch, I think Arsenal's team was better.in extra time when you'd actually look, their four best players were probably off the pitch.Now I know it's difficult in extra time, everyone's a bit tired and things like that and I understand, I'm not saying you should have took the games, I'm not saying that, I just felt there could have been a bit more courage in terms of actually when you had the ball to get on the ball a bit.Miles Lewis -Skellar I thought was done that three or four times but I just wanted that courage from other people where it wasn't like we got the ball back, Ray has gone long, we've lost it or we've had two passes, we've lost it, we all get back.It was almost like You are the best team in England.You have not lost a game in the Champions League.

Surely we can show for the ball a little bit more, boys.Let's have this courage to open up a little bit.Not to leave yourselves open defensively, but a bit more.Come on, boys, get on the ball.Sometimes when you get the early goal... something inside, we've all been players where you've maybe got something to hold on to.That's the only thing I would say, and if you are what you're saying, this is the start of our journey in terms of going to win the Champions League.

I think you just need to show a little bit more, have a bit more arrogance on the ball.Yeah, they'll learn from it, they'll learn from it.

You know, we've not been here before for 20 years now, and certainly not been here under Arteta, and they'll learn from that.And I think that going into the next season, we will have a little bit more arrogance about us now we know what it tastes like to win.Do you think it was a penalty on Madaweki?I think no is the answer.I think if the referee did originally give it, I don't think he would have overturned it and that's what's frustrating.He was very quick to give them a penalty, but no interest in ours.

It was a penalty though, wasn't it?

Yeah, but from the referee's angle, you would have thought that was a penalty as well.I don't know, it's just too much of a grey area.What I didn't like at all was him blowing half -time on the corner.I've never seen that.That was amazing.

Saka was dilly -dallying over to the corner last.What do you want to do?Give him an extra two minutes?And that's a player that didn't turn up.You guys act like Saka's the second coming of Jesus and completed about two passes in the whole game.

The way that he was instructed to play by Arteta was to track back and help defensively, which he did superbly and unfortunately he couldn't.get in on an attack.I think he did his job defensively.I would have loved him to be a bit more ruthless going forward, but that wasn't the game plan.I wouldn't blame that on him.

Do you think it would have been slightly different if you hadn't scored so early?

Yeah, of course.We were holding on to the lead and his job wasn't, I don't think, to get another one.I think it was to hold on.And I think he did well at that.When you do that, you nullify his attacking strengths.

Gabriel was fantastic.I lost him in Saliba.were brilliant in the game, but were you surprised when he went for the penalty?Was there anyone else you were looking at thinking, why has the centre -back taken it?

Look, this is very easy to have this debate.I think if you're a professional footballer, you should be able to convert from 12 yards.I know it's obviously the highest pressure penalty in the game.It comes down, I think, to bottle.I think whoever's there and wants to take it, takes it.I remember Bayern Munich -Chelsea in the Champions League final, I think Neuer took Bayern's third because he thought, fuck it, I'm having this.

And Gabriel probably did the same, he's a bit...I like that, he's fearless.

You've got to hit the target, haven't you?Two, he didn't even hit the target.The keeper didn't make a save.How can you lose a game, a Champions League final, where the other keeper hasn't made a single save?Well, you hit him off target.

Wakey fighting for penalties, 3 -0 up, and nowhere to be seen.

It's the thing, this is what comes down to bottle, and Gabriel, obviously being a leader, said, I'll have this, and he missed it.

Yeah, I respect Gabriel.Do you think it was not a showboating way, but obviously the fifth penalty taker's normally the glory penalty?Yeah.And you normally have a more attacking mind, the player taking that one.You think Gabriel wanted to grab the headlines and think, well if I score this...Why not take second or third and why did he have to take the fifth as a centre -half?

That's a ridiculous statement.That jumped off the pitch.to me though.I said that to him before, I said I think Declan Rice should have took the fifth.He's going to take it.I'll tell you why.

If you don't get there.

The problem with the fifth penalty taker, and this has happened a few times, and it happened to Ronaldo in a tournament a few years ago, some people do want to take the fifth penalty and be the glory.I don't see that with Gabriel.

It's not just the glory, though.It's also you can be the one that has to save it as well.Yeah, exactly.

If there's a more pressure penalty.But the reason why you wouldn't waste one of your penalty takers on your fifth one, or say, let's say, your best one or your number two, because it might not get there.And there's nothing worse than your best penalty taker not taking a penalty in a shootout.So your best penalty takers have always got to take, for me, one of the first four.

If you don't get there, then you've missed probably two out of your first three.Yeah, and we did miss one, so we needed someone to step up and slot it and get us back in it.

Ezi's record's not good for penalties either, is it?Crystal Palace, Ezi struggled from...I don't know if you've seen some of his penalties for Crystal Palace as well.

I think he took a penalty for Palace and then said, I won't do it again.

He missed the penalty against Liverpool in the shootout of the Community Shield.And there's a video of Tyreek Mitchell afterwards looking at the big screen and he's taking the penalty on it.And he says, you've got to put that in the bin, mate.And he's like, yeah, it's done.And yet he's done the same thing again.I think it's just muscle memory a lot of the time, because it's a higher pressure thing, you know?

And if you change your penalty stride and everything in that moment, then maybe you're more likely to miss.But I think he was waiting for the keeper to move and then he went.

Sometimes there's nearly too many variations.Like he stands up straight and then he runs to the left and he does a little, like, fast feet and then he's...

Can I ask you, because we were saying before, you made a good point, the PSG goalkeeper doesn't make a save in the game, does he in the shootout, or he obviously doesn't get anywhere near the goal, doesn't cover himself in glory there, but with the SA one, I thought the keeper actually does well because he doesn't move, is it hard not to move in a situation like that?

It's very difficult not to move, yeah.It's very difficult not to move.And I suppose maybe he just stood there in a sense that I can't really read the run -up.But then the thing is, Ezi has to put it in the corner, doesn't he?He has to score.Because I think if he passes it in either corner, it's obviously stately obvious.

The goalkeeper hasn't got the time to react, to keep it out then.I think sometimes you can do too much, like he starts straight to the ball and then he runs to the left and then he does fast feet and then he does a stutter.Sometimes there's too much going on there in the run -up, do you know what I mean?And I think John Oddish, remember, would do a shimmy.

But a lot of them were doing that straight.A lot of them were straight onto the ball and then all of a sudden they were left to run.Gabrielle did the same, didn't he?He went straight to the rim and then moved, didn't he?

Every player has missed a penalty.It's just, it's unfortunate.It happens, shit happens.John Terry missed a penalty, he was crying and he came back and won it.It happens.

But all I'm saying is I don't think Ezzy's record from the penalty spot is good at all.I'm surprised that he's been stepped up to take one.

He missed one against Newcastle where he was waiting for the keeper to move.And yet he barely moved and obviously he's just put it down the middle because I think it sort of spun his head a bit.If you're waiting for the keeper to move and they don't move it's going to be a problem.

Can we talk about the fucking Premier League please?

Let's get back to it because you said that you think this is the start.So what do you think Arsenal probably need personnel -wise in terms of maybe to take it to another level in terms of, for me, I think you still need a centre forward and a left winger.I felt that a year ago and I still feel the same now, even though we've won the Premier League.I still think there's probably areas where you could improve.

100%.I think we need to build around our core, stick together and block out the noise.Now these players have got, you know, they know what it tastes like to win.I am hopeful that they will get addicted to that feeling.If there's ever any lack of motivation, they can now go on their phones, look up the scenes from Tuesday night, look at the old people crying, look at the smiles on their faces when they're on the top of the bus.the parade, that should be enough for them to go out because they know what it feels like now and you know City have I think just landed their plane and we've just got off the runway and now it's time for a long flight.

Do you think, I think this is a great opportunity for Arsenal to really sort of kick on and be like almost the dominant force for the next year or two because the other big six if you like, I think five of them Besides yourselves, you've all got new managers.Have I got that right?

Arteta's the only one to have won it.

Yeah, so what I'm saying is, there's going to be teeth and problems with some of those managers new to the Premier League.

Is that one of the reasons why you see this as the opportunity that you've got to grab it?Definitely, yeah.We're comfortable, and I think this is what I was saying before about we know we're going to go again.We know our future.These players, this gaffer, they're not going anywhere.Whereas there's uncertainty around everyone else.

So yeah, we've trusted the process.There's been a couple of bumps and there was points where I didn't trust it early on.A few years down the line, no -one's denying that Arteta's been given licence to go out and spend the money, but he's got the recruitment right, he's got a team full of players that he's hand -picked, that he loves, that he's turned into a family, and everyone else is sort of kicking off a little bit.Your gaffer's gone.Sorry, mate, I'm not going to do this.I think you'll be all right next season.

three games a week could...

Don't worry about us.

And obviously City, there's a big change, God knows what's going to happen to them.

Your players are going to be exhausted next season, because you went all the way to the Carabao Cup final, to the FA Cup semi -final, Champions League final...They didn't make the semi, they got knocked out by some spies from the Champions League.Oh, right, quarter -finals.Then they're going to the World Cup, and I think there's more games this World Cup, it's a bigger World Cup.and then they're going to go again in all the comps and we know what that means.he likes to play his favourites in every competition, you're going to see Decon Rice is going to be next.

No matter how successful you are, we can spin it in a negative.Unbelievable.Don't get to the Champions League final again or the NEC Cup final.

Is that not going to be a thing where there's so much football play?I think we'll be alright.

But listen, you'd think you'd be alright, but myself and Gareth were in this position last season, talking about Liverpool kicking on, won the league, and here we are now, Gareth, and we haven't got a manager 12 months later after Arne Slott coming in in Season 1 and winning the Premier League.Was it the right decision to part with Arne Slott?

I think ultimately yes, although right now it's still pretty raw from when it happened, obviously Saturday afternoon.I've got mixed feelings about it.I felt when the news came through, I thought, well, why now?Because everything pointed to the fact that he was going to stay.There was talk of a new assistant manager coming in.He'd said himself in multiple press conferences, I'm involved in summer recruitment, I expect to be here next year.

And so I was kind of looking forward to going on holiday and sort of forgetting about it a little bit and then bang!And it's taken everyone by surprise.You listen to all the...The reporters who cover Liverpool week in, week out.It's come from left field that they've decided to suddenly do it.And when they're saying it's based on data and it's based on a review, well, you knew what the data was and you knew what all the problems were last week.

So I didn't really get that.Equally, the other side of me is I'm kind of relieved in a way, because I was worried that there was a bit of a...Brendan Rodgers type feel about it where next season could be derailed quite quicklyLose a couple of games, it goes toxic early and then what are you doing?I knew who you were recruiting, I knew what manager you were going to get at that point and you've missed the transfer window and all of that kind of stuff.There's a part of me that thinks if you're going to do it, well, at least it's done.

They're talking about a new manager being in place before the World Cup even starts, so that then, you'd think, means there's time to have a good runner by the five or six players we probably need.

Yeah, I'm a bit like you.I could live with whatever decision the club made, really.I'd got my head around them staying, and I could almost justify it in my head and go, OK, listen, There was injuries, there was new players come in, the situation with Jota.He is a Premier League -winning manager.The Salah situation on the pitch and off the pitch must have been a nightmare to deal with.We don't know what goes on behind the scenes, but you can imagine the feeling around.

You think, OK, he's moved on.I got my head round it a little bit.Now, I was a little bit that I would change the manager, but for a certain manager.I wouldn't just change him for anyone.It wouldn't be a case of Arnie Slick goes, and then we're looking for a manager.If you could have got, who I think in my head, a top manager, whether it was Lewis Henry, Kay, it might, but that was never going to happen.

But I'd have changed him for Xabi Alonso.So as soon as Alonso had gone to Chelsea, I was like, no, I think I'd probably keep him.And now, it looks like it's going to be Arreola, who is, I think we'd all say, fantastic, what he's done at Bournemouth.But if you'd have said to me a few weeks ago, would you sack Arne Slott and bring in Arreola, I'd be a little bit like, oh, I'm not sure.I don't know.And I say this for all the clubs, especially the clubs we associate with winning the title.

WhenWhen they make an appointment, I look at it and think, can I see that fellow winning the league?Or winning their club, the league?And the thing I always go back to with Slotters, we had a manager who won the league, and I know the performances this season were so poor, and the results were so poor, but it was the performances more than anything, so I can get it in goal and I get it.I just think a manager from Bournemouth who's never had much European experience managing the Champions League or... or certainly done that in England, three games a week, I do think it's a risk, I do.It is a risk.

Well, anybody's a risk.Anyone's a risk, yeah, any move is a gamble.I think there's maybe a little bit of a dearth of available top -class managers as well.I mean, you look at Mourinho's ended up going back to Madrid and things like that, so Enrique is the one I think we would have all loved and we would have walked to the end of the earth to get that man, He's lifted another Champions League, he's going nowhere, so that's that done.And then who else is there?With RIO, I think I like his style of football and it feels more Liverpool, I've got to be honest.

I think one of the problems is last season was such a tough watch.We were going to Anfield and we were just like...The thing you were looking forward to was having a pint with your mates, not the footy.And, you know, you had...You had Watkins basically saying, I know Liverpool are terrible at the back and I know I'm going to find space and I'm going to exploit it.That was quite telling as well.

There was all the problems with set pieces.There was the start to games as well which really did my head in.I mean, if we're playing Man United at Anfield, I expect whoever's wearing the red shirt to go and get stuck in, go and win the first, second balls and all that kind of stuff.We didn't do it.And then it was a repeat of that at Old Stafford.

So, my worry with that kind of thing is, well, we're talking about a year earlier, I think we can all go back to that style.Of course, a manager plays his style.But they recruited for an Arne Slott style, which was not quite Jürgen Kopp, it was a bit more control.Now, when we're saying the football wasn't great, you're right, it wasn't, it was slow and laborious, but it wasn't a case of the manager being defensive, he had a lot of attacking players on the pitch.My thing is now, Isak, Wirtz, Ekotike, I'm not sure they are those type of players.That's my worry.

So when we said the football was slow, the pressure wasn't there, it was because we had Wirtz, McAllister in there, Isak doesn't press, he doesn't play too much, Ekotike doesn't really press.So you almost brought these talented players in, and they couldn't play this style that we associated with Klopp, we saw bits of in his first season.And Liverpool went the other way.The reason I said I wanted to launch him is because in the back of my mind I was thinking, this is the guy who's got the best out of Florian Wirtz in terms of buying Leverkusen.So we know your most expensive player.And he's won.

And he's won with them.He's got the connection with the supporters.That's the one that I'm a little bit like, if you were going to change him, why would it not be Xabi Alonso?

I think that's where the questions start to go upstairs, isn't it?If you're doing a review of the season, why doesn't the review of the season include Richard Hughes, who's the director of football, and Michael Edwards, who's the CEO of football?Because they're the people who are responsible for the recruitment and for buying those players off that profile.And it felt like all season, I have sympathy there for Slott in that he's going to a gunfight with a knife almost every week because he hasn't got the squad.I think there's an extent to which any manager would have struggled with that squad.I think perhaps they could have got more out of them, perhaps there could have been more fight, their tactics might have been different.

maybe the set pieces would have been different, whatever.But equally, it wasn't right, it wasn't done properly, and yet them fellas are apparently keeping their jobs.And they've only got one year each left on their contract, so there's that uncertainty there as well.And so far, nothing's been said about their roles.And in fact, it seems that Richard Hughes has now been allowed to go and recruit another manager.in Aiola who he's worked with before.

So I find all that strange and one of the explanations really as to why they haven't gone for Alonso has been people saying, well he's too big of a figure and he could have been too close to the fans and the nerds if you like.don't like that.They don't like a manager having that power.

Well, I'll tell you what, listen, this idea, and I've said this, and this goes back to Chelsea as well, I'm sick of these directors of football.Listen, and by the way, I've got great respect for what they did in terms of being there with Klopp, but the longer Klopp's not there, because the people at the top at Liverpool, Michael Edwards especially, he was there under Brendan Rodgers and it wasn't great.Klopp comes in and Michael Edwards and his team, obviously are past that and do a great job, but the most high -profile recruitment team I've ever heard about in my life.Everybody talks about them.The fans have got them as their gods.As soon as Jurgen Klopp goes, it seems to drop off again.

So Jurgen Klopp the star.I mean, that's what it looks like.Great managers make good players even better.That's what the great managers do.That's what they've always done.And that's what I'm looking at a bit.

So this idea that you can just get anybody in as the coach, and this is what Chelsea think as well, just get anyone as the head coach, we'll do the recruitments.Managers doesn't matter, we just flip them.It matters at Liverpool.And that's my little thing about Alonso or Iriola.Iriola's done a brilliant job, but it's a big jump.from Bournemouth to Liverpool if he is the guy.

With Alonso, you've got the playing career this evening.the managers he's been managed by.What he did at Leverkusen, playing in a European, getting to a European final, as well as winning the league.Obviously, but he's managed Real Madrid.I know it didn't go well, but he's managed at that level, that sort of scrutiny, that pressure, and that's...If they chose Iraiola above Alonso because of that, well, I think that's very worrying for Liverpool going forward.

If they've chose... somebody else because I want to play a back three, or it's a style of football, maybe it's a little bit too much like slot.Okay, fair enough, they want to go to the high -pressing game again.But as I said before, I'm not sure Liverpool have got the squad right now.

Sorry, I was going to say, it's worrying that you mentioned they were going to bring an assistant manager in from Holland or whatever that was in the pipeline.Alonso had just gone to Chelsea a few weeks back so it looks like at no stage they spoke to Alonso and Slott was the man for next season.So is it the last three or four games that they've really gone, this is not good enough?Or do you think at that level or that size of football club, you know, the well -run, the best -run football clubs would have a plan in place?And the plan was for Slott to be there next year.So my question is, what actually happened in the last week or ten days?

Did he sort of throw it all out the window and go, we don't want him anymore?Do you think that, Gareth, something happened very...

I'm not talking about a couple of days ago.I mean, I spoke to someone around the club and they said that the last four or five games of the season actually made a big difference, how poor Liverpool were and how they limped across the line to get Champions League football.They made a big play out of that sort of...That was the straw that broke the camel's back.

Yeah, it would make sense that, wouldn't it?Because I think Liverpool have been incredibly fortunate to be in the Champions League next season and they almost fell over the line.It was almost down to other clubs underperforming and not grasping the chance to go and get in it themselves.Because there was an opportunity there at one point where we were looking at Man United and saying, we can catch them there.And then it just tailed off.Even the very last game of the season, we could have lost that in the last couple of seconds of that game.

So there was no control.Chelsea was terrible.I was speaking to, I know he's not here today, but I was speaking to Rory last night.And he was saying he couldn't believe that the state they're in, they were able to come to Anfield, go 1 -0 down, and then start dictating the game.And Liverpool had just passive and weak and meek and just letting them have it and letting them come at them.And I think that was worry and that was obviously the game where quite a few fans decided to start booing.

There's stuff being in the papers since that apparently slot went absolutely off his head with the players after that game as well.So if they've had a reassessment then I can sort of understand it because Back to what I said earlier, it's hard to worry about how's next season going to be then?And how quickly can it go wrong?They've gone to great pains from the briefings of teams to say this is definitely not down to we asked the players and the players didn't want them.But I kind of think they're bound to say that.And there is an element of it, I do wonder how many of them actually wanted to play for them next season.

Because I found strange in that last game against Brentford, I don't know why Curtis Jones, as a scouser, scored in front of the Kop and then didn't celebrate, and in fact looked angry.And I thought, what's going on there?What's in his head?How don't you celebrate that moment?And then even Virgil, after the game's ended, he's on the pitch just staring up at the stands.And again, I thought, well, where's his head at?

What's going on there?What's going on inside his mind?Canarte's obviously gone as well.Bizarrely only six weeks ago, after the derby, wasn't it?He was saying, speak to me soon, you'll see I'm stuck.here, I'm gonna take more control, I'm gonna be a bigger figure at the club.

Now he's gone.What's going on there?You know, there's loads of little bits where you're like, you're wondering what the hell's going on and maybe we never find out until... autobiographies get written in a few years time or whatever but it seems like a lot of mad stuff's going on behind the scenes.

But you know what, I'm a little bit with you and Arne Slott when you look how bad last season was you can't complain too much about the change and as I said I could have gone either way but what I would say is a big thank you to Arne Slott, he won his Premier League title and if someone has said the day Jürgen Klopp announced he was leaving.In the next two years we'll win the league and we'll get Champions League football the season after.We'd have all bit your hand off for that one.

100%.Best day of my life because, you know, children being born aside and things like that.Because we didn't get to celebrate that other title properly.And all I ever wanted, I've said it on here before, was the lads I've always gone to footy with, we always said, can you imagine that pint when we won the league?And we never got to have that pint when we won the league, when it was the Covid season.So Arne Slott got us that moment that we dreamed of for all of our adult lives, to have that pint after we won the title.

So for that, Arne Slott, thank you.

On the Slott one then, when he was announced Liverpool manager, were you?happy, excited about that?Or were you going like, because you mentioned Areola there before and he says, well I'm not sure, he's coming from Bournemouth, can he do the job?Was your mindset when Slott got the job, I'm happy with this guy?

Yeah, I mean it was a bit like people weren't quite sure who he was or know too much about it, but you'd add that okay, winning the league with finals, he's obviously played European football.Listen, We watch Eriola every week.No one can say you don't love watching Bournemouth play.If Bournemouth are on the TV, you're watching them aren't you?You're thinking, we're going to watch a good game.So you get that.

The point being is how he plays.And I said this at the end of last season.We were talking about the Chelsea manager.It was on Monday Night Football.And we were looking at Chelsea's options.And Eriola was there.

And I actually made the point to my manager.go back on it I said I think Eriola is making a mistake leaving Bournemouth because I think the next thing he needs to prove is brilliant manager, great football, high intensity he needs to prove he can manage a European season with the way, what he asks of his players physically and when you have a Europe you've got to rotate and you've got to move so all these things come into it and I thought that would be the next step for him just to prove he could you know, still produce the goods in a European season, and then he'd get us moved to his next club.It almost feels like it's a year.Not too early, listen Jürgen Klopp was probably manager of minds and that's the one who proved that at Borussia Dortmund with that style of football Do you worry that in Iola's, we'll run them into the ground too early?That's the feeling, so do the injuries, if you look at most of his seasons I think the second half of the season they drop off I think last season was the first time I think they've had a great second half of the season Normally they're up there at the start of the season So these are the things you have to take into account and then does the intensity actually have to drop off?a little bit, so you're not actually getting the full Eriola because you're getting too many injuries, you've got too many games, and then he's actually going to be more of a footballer than manager.

You're on the ball more at Liverpool than you are at Bournemouth.I mentioned I would have swapped Arnie Slott for Xabi Alonso, but he's gone to Chelsea.How do you think he'll get on there?

Well, he just obviously didn't last long at Real Madrid.That's my worry, and they say that sometimes the players at Real Madrid are running the club.Well, he's joining another club that feels that way at Chelsea, that... the players have the say and perhaps you mentioned before about being a head coach and stuff and it feels like even the PIRS at Chelsea are nearly picking the teams at times and he's out just sort of coaching the players on the training.But I don't think that'll work with Alonso either.I don't know if the club can step up.I think they've got a couple of directors.

You talk about one director of football, they've got two or three directors of football bringing all these different players.in.

A little thing I just wanted to mention before you carry on is they've actually changed this title to Manager rather than Head Coach.

Do you think that obviously Well, I mean, I'd like to think that Xavi coming in as well had a big say in how he wants the club to run before he's even signed the contract.You know, he can't have powers of B telling him, you've got to pick him, you've got to leave Enzo out because he mentioned he wanted to leave the club, then give him the captaincy when he comes back and all this.They can't have all that.Xavi has to be in charge, but again, it just seems that Chelsea has spent all this money and they're no further forward.In fact, they're going backwards, aren't they?They're going back.

And I suppose the perfect fit would be Alonso at Liverpool, but that's gone now.Can he do it at Chelsea?And here he will, as a manager done so well, as you mentioned at Leverkusen, in a sense failed at Real Madrid.You can call it whatever you want, you can call it the players are running the club, but people will look at it, it didn't work at Real Madrid.I think you mentioned the four points off top when he got sacked, but it just didn't work because he got sacked, that's the bottom line.Now there's pressure on that position because we see how quickly Chelsea go through their managers.

But again, what he'd done at Leverkusen and winning the league and being unbeaten, it was just amazing what he'd done there.So watch this space, as they say.The other one, the big one, is Pec Guardiola leaving.

It's a huge loss, isn't it, for the Premier League, really, and one of the greatest managers we've ever seen.Possibly the greatest manager of all time I would say, but do you worry where this leaves City?When you think of Ferguson leaving Manchester United, you think of Wenger leaving Arsenal, those huge figures in the Premier League, do you think this could take a couple of years for City to get back on track?

I mean it's well run, I know Hugo Vianna's in there, I used to play with Hugo at Newcastle and look at what the window did in January bringing in Gehy and Semenu and stuff So I think the players are there and then again they'll go again this summer.Obviously the big players are leaving.Bernardo Silva, John Stones is leaving.Obviously the manager is the biggest one.He has talked about being the head coach but he has been the manager of the team.club.

He has had all to say with everyone coming to the club.So there will be a trepidation a little bit or a little bit of worry from the fans and the people at the very top of Man City.Can Maresca, I think that's the talk, he's not done yet, but Maresca's the man, he's been there before, he's an assistant, of course he knows the club well.Can he sort of keep the reins, keep this club ticking on and by I mean by ticking on, win the Premier League, get back to the Champions League finals.That's where Manchester City belong now.They're not going to take a step back, they want to keep pushing hard.

Absolutely, well I think there was an inkling in a lot of City fans when Pep signed that two year deal that he might just do one and go.And I'm really glad he didn't go last season, because that would have been a proper dampener to go out only winning a community shield.It wouldn't have been a good way for Pep to go.But he's had 10 seasons, 20 trophies.Like Jamie said, I think he's the best manager we've ever seen.And yeah, the dream ending would have been to see him winning another Premier League title, winning a Champions League, but to get two trophies in his final season, Pep, to go out.

And I hope he had a chuckle watching Gabriel sail that penalty.into the sky.What a weird comment that is.Why would he have a chuckle there?Maybe he wouldn't but I think a lot of City fans will have.

Was Harlan's picture about that?

He puts it on social media.You'll have to ask Harlan, I don't speak for Harlan.You're speaking for Pep Guardiola.I said I hope he had a chuckle, I don't know if he did.Like Shea said, Arsenal were the best team in England this season, they won the league.Pep couldn't get that one over the line.

But he got two trophies, 20 as well.I'm sure a Palace fan to win three trophies, how good that is.A Villa fan winning a trophy, Liverpool winning the league last season.West Ham winning a trophy, Arsenal winning a trophy.These are monumental days in history for these clubs.And Pep's managed to do that 20 times for City.

so... 18.You what, mate?18.It was 20.I thought you don't count community fields.I just said the Palace won three trophies, mate, so I've just counted it.

So, yeah, winning a treble, getting 100 points, winning a domestic quadruple, winning four league titles in a row.But are you worried now that it's all going to come to an end?It has come to an end.Not necessarily the trophies, but Pep Guardiola's reign at City has come to an end.I don't think the trophies will come to an end because Marescu is a proven winner.You know, Leicester, he got them promoted to the Championship, he takes on a way bigger role.

So you're saying anybody can manage Manchester City?

I'm not saying anyone can manage.I'm saying Marescu has gone and beaten PSG 3 -0 in a final of the Club World Cup.Last summer he won the treble at City, I believe he's credited to an extent with...He won the what?When he was at City, he won the Champions League as part of the backroom staff, didn't he?and obviously he's been at the club before, he knows the club.

I believe he was credited with giving City a back four of four centre -backs, I believe he was involved with that tactically, so if he gets the job, which it looks like he is going to, he's proven he can win trophies at Chelsea, he got two there last season, he's walked away.There was talk as to whether maybe he walked away because, you know, the control of the players, what was going on, did he not have enough control, and he seems like a strong head.So I'm personally pretty happy with Maresca, people were talking, would he be the right move?I'm pretty confident now that the way Pep's left the club, you look at, like you said, you know, when Wenger left Arsenal, when, obviously, Fergie left United, there was talk that maybe they were on a massive downward, but, you know, Fergie did win the league in his last season.Was that group of players prepared to go and keep winning?It wasn't.

So I think this City team, You know, they've got to prove themselves next season.They've won two trophies in Peps last season, what have they got?And I think, you know, Maresca, can he go and do a job?He's in a decent position to do so.

I think, I was a fan of Maresca at Chelsea.I thought he was a really good manager, coach.I looked at the games when he came on.he came up against Liverpool, he gave Liverpool a really tough time, really clever with how he did things, obviously worked under Pep before as well, so I think he's a really top coach, competent manager, but obviously he's not Pep Guardiola, but we'll see.I'm only asking this because this is here, by the way.Has Pep Guardiola left because he thinks the 150 might be around the corner?

Nobody knows the verdict of that bar three -man panel, so...If Pep somehow magically knows, then I don't know how he's done that.He is Pep, if anyone's gonna know, he'll know.Well, I mean...That would be breaching every part of the contracts.

And is that why you've got a manager then who's got championship experience?We need League 2 experience by the sound of it.

I think there's a way, someone said there's a way that you could get relegated and we could stay up.Yeah, is that it?

It's been closed.We saw Bruno Fernandes get an assist because the season had ended.So, I think your chances of staying up, mate, I think you're clutching, to be honest at that.

Can I ask a question?Go on, mate.What do you think went wrong for City this season?

What went wrong for City this season?I think, ultimately, the squad itself had some good heads in it, had Bernardo Silva, had Stones that were on their way out.We dropped too many points in games where we were winning, effectively.In the league, that's what went wrong.In the Champions League, we had a very poor first leg against Real Madrid.The second leg, we started off terribly with a red card, so the Champions League was gone.

In the league, there was games like West Ham away, We were ahead in Drew, Tottenham away, Brighton at home, Chelsea at home, Sunderland away.These were games we should have won and the majority of those we were leading and we didn't get those points.And then when we finally got close level just ahead of Arsenal with five or six games to go, that worked.

That's why I'm asking, why were you dropping these leads so frequently?Because Man City, that's not like the city that we've seen for the last 10 years.

Yeah, that's true.Well, like I said, it's a young team.it's a transitional season, it's a transitional team.And in that season, like I said, we've won two trophies.In the league, maybe at times we did lack the experience.

If Arsenal would have done what City did in the league, we'd all have said they bottled it.

Oh, absolutely, yeah.Arsenal haven't got...Well, I don't think if Arsenal had done what City had done, we'd have said they bottled it.Yeah, but you said it's a new team.Say that again, sorry.It's a new team.

It's partially a new team, yeah, but at no point in our tatters reign anyway.So the new team we're talking about, has it?Not a Champions League one, is it?That one's silver, mate.

Anyway, yeah, what was the question again?Sorry, I got into it.You're just trying to get more thinking time.No, you said it's a new team, so they need an experience.What I'm saying is that this team totally, they are the treble winners.

Yeah, but in our tatters reign, at no point did Arsenal get, you know, from miles behind close and then not make it, not get it over the line.Arsenal were heaps and bound, whatever the word is, they were miles ahead of City.And ultimately, what happened is, they lost that huge lead.And when they did lose that big lead again, they kicked on, like a champions team do, and they won the league.So like I said, you've got to credit Arsenal.But with this City team, we were miles behind.

We created those problems ourselves.No one until maybe, I'd say, February, March, when we started picking up points, when Arsenal dropped off, when we beat them in the League Cup final, when we beat them again at the Etihad.At that point, people said, can City go and do it?And we didn't do it.We didn't do it, but no Arsenal season under Arteta, anyway, compares to the City one here, where we've caught them and then not quite got there, if that makes sense.Top of the league with, I think, four or five games to go is a little bit of a bottle job, in my opinion.

Well, it's not, is it?A little bit.Because you led this season for, like, 300 days.I'd say a bottle job, personally, is going up 1 -0 in two European Cup finals and losing them both.It's a great deflection.It's a brilliant deflection.

Che, looking back at Pep Guardiola's time at City, how much of an impact has he had on the English game?

Amazing, yeah.I think the way he's revolutionised, we spoke before about how he's changed the game and a lot of teams play that way.We've seen managers come to the Premier League and do different things.You see different managers, not just in the Premier League, you see it around Europe and you see even in the Championship, playing out from the back, playing through the thirds.The way he's changed football I think is incredible.One thing I disliked a little bit, for example, he's very structured in some of the systems he plays in and in a sense takes the freedom away.

Look at the Champions League at the weekend, Carver Skelly and stuff, if he was maybe in a pep team would he be more saying, you know, I want you to do less dribbles, keep your shape and all that kind of stuff.So sometimes you can be overcoached, but when you won 20 trophies in 10 years, you can't really criticise too much.I don't know, I think he'll be missed not just for Manchester City fans, I think the Premier League, he's a huge personality when it comes to the Premier League around the world as well.And it's a big shoes to fill, it really is.Has Marescu got the personality to do that?Only time will tell.

But Pep Guardiola, he goes with a lot of people saying what an unbelievable career he's had.But of course, anyone who's worked under him, any player who's played under him, it's just every day was a learning curve.the sort of levels he goes to and the depths he goes to when it comes to coaching and stuff.

I think even as pundits, we probably learn from when you're watching your Monday night football, you think what's Pep doing, what systems he's doing, and that for me is one of the reasons why I said a few weeks ago that I think he is the...I think, for me, I don't need to debate whether he's the best manager in the world or maybe of all time when he finishes, but just the Premier League.Now, I did a newspaper column that ruffled a few feathers,but I said it is....I think Pep Guardiola is the best manager we've had in the Premier League, but obviously the debate is, is it Pep Guardiola?

Is it, say, Alex Ferguson?Now, before you get into it, I'm going to make the case for my defence of why I went for him.I mean, the trophies speak for themselves, obviously.I think the football and the influence he's had on the game and almost everybody's trying to, it feels like copy Pep.And it's not just playing good football, it's like...Even Liverpool, Jürgen Klopp had a spell where they put Trent Alexander -Arnold in midfield from full -back.

That was Pep who was doing that at Bayern Munich.You know, things like that.When he first came to English football, I think he had a midfield where he had De Bruyne and Silva as almost number 10s and one -centre midfielder.And I remember Gary on Monday Night Football, a guy who's won seven or eight Premier League titles saying, you can't win the Premier League playing like that.I mean he was proven wrong but I could understand what he was saying You're thinking you need power, you need that strength in the Premier League He won it like that, he's changed the team that much That you don't even remember them missing anybody So Kompany left who we'd say one of the best centre -backs David Silva arguably in the top 3 or 4 players ever Sergio Aguero one of the greatest strikers You don't remember them missing them I think he won a league with no centre forward one season.Yeah, 20.

And when I'm comparing it to Sir Alex Ferguson as well, who, as Adam knows, I've got unbelievable respect and admiration for, even being a Liverpool man.They did the treble that United did.They won the league four times that United didn't do in a row.They won a domestic treble.It's like...I was making all these arguments when I was making, and I'll go to you, Adam, because obviously you're Fergie's man, I get that.

Is there an argument, when I'm making these four or five arguments, why I would sort of pop it?slightly above Sir Alex in the Premier League?What would be the argument against what I've just said?

I think when you look at the club that Sir Alex Ferguson took over, Pep Guardiola took over a side that had already won the league.United were a long, long way away from that.He had to change the culture of the club.He had to change the academy and how that was working.He had to do everything.He had to put the roots in to be able to grow something from there.

I think you look at the period as well between 1990 to 2001, Fergie won 20 trophies in that time as well.He won the treble, large nucleus of academy players in his period at Manchester United.What was that, 1992?2001 he won 20 trophies and then obviously between 01 and 2013 he won a lot more as well.I think you look at the players that he did it with, the academy and all those kind of things that came through, I think in Fergie's time at United he only He was only the top spender three times.It's kind of like this myth that Fergie outspent everyone and, you know, he was always spending money.

And I just think when you look at the amount of times he revolutionized the team as well, kept changing three or four different squads, built those.The managers he came up against as well.I don't think he'd be allowing Arne Slott or Arteta to take his title.He was coming up against Wenger, the greatest arsenal.manager ever, Mourinho.

I think Jürgen Klopp gave him a bit of a run for his money, didn't he?

Jürgen Klopp was unbelievable, obviously.I wouldn't say Liverpool's team was the best Premier League team they've had in that time, but the Chelsea -Arsenal teams were.99 points.99 and 97 points, Liverpool.Jürgen Klopp's Liverpool team was the best Premier League team.That's what I said.

I said the Chelsea team was the greatest team he came up against.The Arsenal team was the greatest team he came up against.The Liverpool team, obviously, was the one that Pep went up against, but...I think when you look at the way he did it as well, and for me, it's 115.Big reasons why we've got to look at that.Adam, listen, I...

We have to look at that.No, I...If that comes out in City again...I wouldn't look at that and go that means Pep's not a good manager.I'd look at the hierarchy and a lot of that goes before Pep.I'm not trying to defend City here.

But in that time, Man United spent more money than Man City in that time we're talking about, didn't they?Yeah, we've been horrendous since Fergie left.Yeah, but that's what I'm saying.

It's not about the funds or where you're buying the players.Pep Guardiola is obviously a great coach.I'm not arguing against that.But you have to look at the clubs that they both came into.

And Fergie built a monster.That's interesting you say that.I agree.Man City, I think, has won the league a couple of times with different managers.They were obviously always going to be top three or four.We scraped Champions League that year.

When Ferguson came in and people said how bad the club was, you know Man United better than me. I'm only saying this from afar.I remember sort of the early 80s, Ron Atkinson.Man United were always there or thereabouts.They're a cup team though.I know, yeah, but if you don't win the league, you're not a cup team, obviously.So what I'm saying is, you're always chasing Liverpool, you're always in the top three or four.

When he took over, and I'm not trying to knock Ferguson, I'm just saying this thing that he'd come in with, Man United, were terrible.Man United in 85, 86, should have won the league the season before Ferguson comes in.The season, his first full season, Man United finished second in 87, 88, his first full season.Man United then had a A few poor seasons because of poor buys.In about 1988, 1989 you were 12th or 13th.That was on the back of buying Neil Webber, Paul Ince or Danny Wallace.

Players you bought in, Jim Leighton in goal.It didn't...That's why, that's why a little bit, and I'm not Ferguson obviously, God absolutely adore him, but what I'm saying is it took him a bit of time to get going.It wasn't just the club, it was, he made a lot of buys that didn't wait.

But he was also investing a lot of time into the academy, changing those things and I think that's massively important and for a club like United it's super important when you look at the academy record that we've got.So I think the stature of the club,at the time, whilst Manchester United were one of the biggest clubs in the country, it was still a lot different.And then people always throw the Champions League thing back at him as well.Like early stages, you know, we could only play three foreigners in the team in the early days.And then obviously we had a few slip -ups, but solely Pep lost against Monaco.

I think we lost against Monaco as well in 97, I think it was, the Dortmund game when we lost against them, by a Leverkusen, that was a bad one, but eventually he got there and he won two of them.

But if we were talking all around, so like the whole careers, who would you put on top?Ferguson?What Fergie did at Aberdeen was unbelievable.Yeah, unbelievable.Last one to beat Brown, Madrid in the European final.

If you look at the team we had in 2011, We shouldn't have even been in that final.I think we had Valencia, Rafael, Fabio.Darren Gibson scored in a Champions League semi -final.Fergie was working his magic at that point.And he had to compete with...You say we spent a lot of money in the Pep Guardiola era, which is true.

From 2005 onward, Fergie had to deal with...We sold Cristiano Ronaldo for a world record fee.We brought in Gabriel Alba to have Valencia and Michael Owen.He was dealing with the Glazers and look, he covered up for them a little bit at times as well, which United fans didn't like.But he was dealing with the Glazer ownership that weren't really investing in the team in that period of time.It changed from 2013 onwards.

So I think you have to credit Fergie massively.And for me, she will always be great.I couldn't care less what anyone thinks.

I'd be the same.I'll go back quite a far.Obviously, I've been an older fan and I remember the first season, you know, he'd won it under...We went toe -to -toe with you that season and we dropped off at the end.But I agree with Adam, I'd put Fergie above Pep.Simply because of all the reasons, I was just thinking when you were talking, all the reasons Adam said, he's totally right.

United weren't nowhere near where City were when Pep came in.And with all due respect to Pep, he's a brilliant coach and he has revolutionised football.But the three clubs we've got,he's had so much wealth.

You don't put Lewis Hamilton in the worst car, though.Why would Pep ever test that?

Yeah, but he's had everything he could have possibly needed, whereas Fergie built an empire.And yeah, you can say he did that when he first came in, got that runner's up spot, then it dropped off.But to come back from that whilst building that academy...

My only thing was it took seven years to win the league.I just think if...You wouldn't get...Listen, it was a different time.But the multiple evolutions that he had...

So different kind of managers as well because obviously you talk about Pep revolutionising the game, inverted fullbacks in the midfield, false nines and all that because Fergie was more of an old school manager wasn't he?

But the way he ran the club, you mentioned the academy from top to bottom and had to rebuild that whole club I think Alex Ferguson is the biggest figure character, when you think of the Premier League, you think of Alex Fergie, you don't think of Pep in terms of his press conference or mind games or maybe bust -ups with his own players, he was a huge figure wasn't he?

What I was trying to get at was Fergie, he always brought a good number two in didn't he, an assistant to do the tactical shape, he was kind of more of a Like an old school manager.

But he just evolutionised every few years.Rebuilt it and rebuilt the team.New ideas, he was willing to tackle them on board.

The board's coming out James.The board's coming out but I just think the Champions League finals just for me.They weren't just wins, they were...

You also lost the Champions League final against a poor Chelsea team.

No, but I'm talking about when they come up against two great teams, Messi and Ronaldo were in both teams.It was Ferguson, Pep Guardiola.I know you're saying one of them... 2011 we didn't have Ronaldo.OK, but the other game was still a bit of a...And by the way, they had some injuries that game.I think Yaya Aturi played centre -back.

Good player.Let's put it to the vote.Who's going Pep Guardiola?

Sir Alex Ferguson wins.One thing on Fergie, though.I remember Fergie's last game at Manchester United.and my dad turning to me and saying, and this is what you're about to go through, he went, you're going to learn what it's like to be a real football fan now son.And that's how I feel for you because your head's a bit in the sand and it's going to get real, real quick.

Right Adam, talking about being a real football fan, Are you going to need to go through a few ups and downs again this season with Michael Carrick in charge?Are you happy with that?

I'm happy, yeah.I mean, obviously there weren't, like I think Rabo made the point earlier, you see Real Madrid getting Mourinho in and there isn't a depth of managerial talent out there it feels at the moment and I think Michael Carrick's brought a little bit of calm and measuredness to the Manchester United thing.We're going into a summer without the hysteria that we usually have when we get a new manager and we're thinking, oh, what players is he going to bring in and how are we going to play?And the idea of all these new managers seems to be better than it is when they actually get to working on the football pitch and I'm really excited to see what he can do.I'm looking forward to this summer.But he just all feels very calm and I think he deserves a lot of credit for what he's done at United.

He's calmed things down.He's got results on the football pitch.The crowd's bouncing again.It feels great to be back in the Stretford Inn at Old Trafford and you could feel it under Amirim.It just kind of got a little bit...You just couldn't be arsed really.

You'd just turn up and you'd be like, we're going to see some boring football again and the manager's going to gaslight us after.it's just going to feel crap and I think Karrick has made it feel a little bit calmer and just I'm looking forward to this season obviously it's the Premier League next season I think it's a little bit open I think Arsenal are obviously the overwhelming favourites going into the campaign but you look at all the other clubs we don't know what Liverpool are going to be like we don't know what Chelsea are going to be like we don't know what City are going to be like and there's a big opportunity there to maybe challenge I think the goal has to be to get into the top four that has to be the goal for the season but if you can get yourself into December and you're not too far away, there's no reason why we can't.We have to have a big summer.

Because you finished third this season.I had this little debate with Gary at the end of the season after the United -Liverpool game about...I'm almost saying don't get kidded by United this season because I think it's a little bit of a...I think I used the word false economy in terms of no European football.Didn't even get to a quarterfinal.I think you went out in the first round of both cup competitions.

Yeah.

So what I'm saying is that's not normal.That's not going to happen next season.So it's going to be different.But on the back of finishing third... and you're saying a little bit of a situation with other clubs.Are you expecting a title challenge or would you...I wouldn't start off the season saying a title challenge.

If someone offered you Champions League football now, would you take that for next season?Oh yeah, but at the same time, I think if you look at where, let's say we compare this season to what could potentially happen next season, I think a lot of the points that we dropped were at home.I think you look and you think the Everton, West Ham, Wolves, Bournemouth, etc. is at home.So it's not like we have to get better against playing against Man City and Arsenal and all these teams.We have to get better playing against those teams at home.Now obviously, pressures change once you are a little bit closer to the top two teams or the top one team.

And if you are in a title race, you start to see players acting differently.That wouldn't be the goal for me at the start of the season.It's consolidate, get top three again and see where we can go.But, there might be an opportunity to open up and I think if we can invest wisely in the summer.Who?What age?

I think that midfield has to get, we have to go big in midfield.In a similar way to last summer we kind of went, let's address this front three and we brought in three quality players.I think we have to do the same with the midfield.I'd be looking at three players in the midfield as well.Any names?We've been linked to Edison at the moment.

I'm a little bit torn on that one.I don't know too much about him, granted, but from what I see, what I have seen, I don't feel like he would be a first choice for us.But if he comes in as the third option, I don't mind that.I like Mateus Fernandes at West Ham.There may be an opportunity there.I still like Cardiff.

Bolaiba, despite him having a little bit of a flatter season this season.Chulo Mane could become available if things change at Real Madrid.I don't think we'll get Elliot Anderson.Bernardo Silva's best days are behind him.I don't think he'd ever come to Manchester United anyway.

Fernandes has been relegated two seasons in a row, by the way, so watch out.Yeah, watch out.

I mean, Ruben Amri mated him, which tells me he's probably a good player, to be honest.But I think if you look at the true Amenes, Adam Wharton, I think we need one of those kind of top players and then two players that can rotate and come in.

You've just mentioned because of the upheaval in other clubs there might be something where you maybe challenge for the title.Who do you think will finish higher next season?Manchester United or Man City?

Oh, no.What a bad question.

We're as close to you as you were to Arsenal, by the way.

It's been 13 seasons in a row we've finished above United.So that's like asking, I don't know, a Birmingham fan.

I don't think you're in for a massive shock.They're not finished above us.

I don't think there'll be that big a shock.I think Man City will definitely finish above Man United.And why I say that is because you've already said it.They're going to be Champions League.Man United's going to be Champions League next season.And as you mentioned, the World Cup competition as well.

I think that'll be a huge shock.sort of pull in their squad.Unless they go and get six, seven players.

That has to be the aim I think.

That's what I'm saying.Because at the minute they're wafer thin and it's been okay Saturday to Saturday.And that's probably worked in Carrick's favour as well.He's got the job because Bruno's got Player of the Season and he's got all these assists.If he's going to Real Madrid on a Wednesday and coming back playing Bournemouth away on a Saturday at 12 .30, there's so much extra strain on that squad.So I definitely think City will finish above them.

Because I do believe City will go again this summer as well and strengthen where the new manager wants to strengthen as well.And these players are hardened up to Wednesday, Saturday, whereas the United players aren't.

I tell you what, you said it was a bad question, should we have a vote?

Well, you've got to bear in mind there's going to be a 55 -point deduction.Exactly.Well, if that comes in, then...You know what I mean?

That'll be close, then.Yeah.

Justin, how have we left you so long?I don't know.

On the back of such a great season.Do you know why he's not saying nothing?Because all this managerial chat, he's thinking, I'm just going to put my hat on, right?No -one mentioned Unai Emery for the Liverpool job or for...Oh, I'm not worried about that.

It doesn't matter how long it takes to talk about a team that won a European Cup final, or not the European Cup, but a European final.I'm happy to sit here and wipe my turn, mate.

What was it like, Justin, were you there?

Yep.

You know what?Listen, I've got to be honest, and I probably speak like...I didn't want Arsenal to win.I don't like to see my rivals win, you know, a big trophy.Someone at the backstage pointing his arms up.Are you an Arsenal fan?

No.

Go on, explain that then.

Premiership side playing at Champions League.Yeah.

Who's your team?Okay.It's interesting.I've seen you throw your hands up.The point I'm trying to make is I was delighted for Villa and I was delighted for Palace.But if it was at Chelsea, Arsenal, Man United, Man City, who I see as Liverpool's rivals, I would never want to see them win a European trophy.

Unfortunately, that makes me a bit sad because that means you don't see Villa as a rival.Maybe if you were in the Champions League, I'd feel differently.But the fact that it was the Europa League...So do you not put Villa at that level now then?

No.

Do you think Villa can challenge for the Premier League next season?The only thing that will stop us next season, we'll obviously get into that, is our recruitment again.We're going into another summer when we're going to have to lose players.

Do you have your money to spend now this summer?

We're hamstrung again.This is the fourth season in a row we're going to go into a summer with who knows who's got to leave.There's big talks of Morgan Rodgers.going and having to level the books again, which is going to be very difficult.

How can you ever compete?

This is the problem.We compete because of one reason, Unai Emery.Four seasons in a row he's been here and we've finished European qualification every season.Arguably, if we hadn't lost to United at last game last season, we would have been three Champions League qualifications in a row.We've got two in a row.He's put the first European trophy for 43 years, the first trophy of any kind for 30 years, and with all of the managerial merry -go -rounds going on.

I think last time I came, Jamie asked me who I think is the best manager in the Premier League and I said no.I said I think he's number two behind Pep.I will upgrade that now.He is now comfortably the best manager in the Premier League without any question.What he's had to do at Villa since he came in 17th under Gerrard to qualify for the Conference League in that first season which was no one would have even ever said that when he walked through the door could he qualify for Europe.Then to do it consistently for the next three seasons.

This season Spurs won the Europa League last year and finished 17th.We've now won the Europa League and finished in European qualification again.We've had Our best player missing for half a season got injured in January.The other two of our three midfielders got injured for two months.Everybody wrote us off.I was listening to all the podcasts, everyone saying when they were trying to predict their top four for the end of the season, nobody mentioned Villa again.

And I've had it again today.Nobody mentions Villa for anything.I understand that we've got this problem with finances, so we are constantly having to fight that all the time and try and be very clever with the way we bring players in.now but he's managed to do all this on the low.I think our net spend since Emery came in is lower than Burnley.

I agree with what you've just said in terms of Emery being the best manager.I've said that a lot I think over the last year or two that besides Pep Guardiola when you look at what he's achievedor his body of work I mean winning the Europa League four, is it four, five times now is it?Five times.How is he not on that shortlist for manager of the year?I know it's unbelievable.

Six managers?You think Unai Emery would Do you think he can walk back into Arsenal, win us the league and get us to a Champions League final?

If you'd have had the confidence in Emery that you've given to Arteta and given him the freedom that Villa have given him, which was never going to happen, you would be multiple Premier League Champions by now.

I'm a big fan of Arteta but he's won two trophies in seven years.

But Arteta's spent £1 .1 billion since he's come in and you go to a Champions League final, he sets up like Sam Allardyce.

You're acting like Villa are massive underdogs.Unai Emery is a terrific manager, you've got a really good team.

Four years and we've got a lower net spend than Burnley.What manager can do what he's done in that time, with that budget?And don't forget, the next step was to win a trophy, we've done that now.And now the next step is to go and win another one.But next year, the key for me next season is Champions League qualification again.We need that two year qualification.

Because when we got a Champions League qualification two years ago, that really helped release a little bit of the financial shackles.And then we dropped into the Europa League, albeit with that meant we could go and win it.But that then created this problem where we've had to comply with European regulations, which is insane.And now we've qualified again for the Champions League.So next year hopefully things will lift a little bit more.And then if we can do it again.

I mean all I ever talk about when I come on here is money.It's sad because we've got a manager.We've got an ownership that can compete with anybody in the Premier League.We've got a manager who's the best.But the Israels came in because of clubs like you.No they didn't come in, they got generated by clubs like them.

That'll just kick it back up the centre.It is, it's absolutely insane.We've got everything to compete at the very, very top.

It's sad how much your club's ripping off your fans as well isn't it?You know, £99 tickets for Champions League games.That's football, isn't it?I'm absolutely shocked.Wild that.

Just going back to Unai Emery then, he's an elite manager in my opinion, elite manager, and we're talking about obviously the Real Madrid job, the Liverpool job's still on the table, and then you're talking about a net spend less than Burnley and stuff.Do you worry from an Aston Villa point of view, they go, one of these clubs eventually going to...No, the way I say that is because he's handcuffed and he's qualifying for Europe, just won the Europa League, he's an elite manager.But there's something, part of his brain must be like, I can go to Real Madrid, I can go to Liverpool and be a...Premier League winning model, Champions League winning model.

Yeah this comes up quite a lot Shai to be honest.That's my worry though.At the moment no I don't see that because what he's building it'd be almost utterly pointless to do what he's done in four years and like I say if he does get another Champions League qualification next year at some point these shackles will be released and then he can hopefully go and really really have a go and I think to set the sort of the foundations he has and then not go on and take advantage of what he's built would be a real shame and I think Yeah, obviously in another two years, Tom, if we're still where we are, and a bigger job comes...I always said Real Madrid, Barcelona -type clubs were the only two that could possibly take him away.But I don't see a Premier League club currently giving him the freedom.

He's got this god -like head control at Villadobas and he won't get that at other places.

I totally agree with what you're saying about the money side of it.And you know, Villadobas...These prices, season tickets have gone up 5 % again.I've always sat really on the fence.I understand that football, like many things, is so priced.But money in football is ridiculous, isn't it?

From every single aspect.Players' costs, players' wages, agents' fees.And clubs, it's such a shame that clubs feel like they have to then put that cost onto fans.Because I'd love it to be 20 quid.I really would.

It's a false economy though.What they lose is generations of other fans coming, bringing your kid, that kind of stuff.

Look, it's a decision that clubs have to make and they have to live with that.

I don't think they actually profit anything off it.I think it's very, very cheap to start trying to charge fans that have made your club.You look back 100 years, it's these generations, you look back in history, these are the people that made the club.100%.

Hang on, I don't think we should be...This is a football team, this is not an Aston Villa thing.Yeah, I'm not saying, oh, I'm not hounding Aston Villa by any means.Liverpool had a situation with the owners back then, there was something going on in the city about 6 -12 months ago.

Yeah, and by no means hounding Aston Villa, I'm just saying generally.Next season we've got one of our stands, we've got three stands, we've got 37 ,000 in the Champions League next season, and we are the only team Premier League that has to constantly battle finances.So I sort of understand what the club's thought process is. I don't agree with it.I think it's wrong to charge £99 for a ticket.Let me put that out there right now.It's wrong.

But the club are thinking how on earth do we get to a point with what they have given us You know, a trophy, four years of European qualification, brilliant games, brilliant nights at Villapart, beating Bayern Munich, beating Paris Saint -Germain.It's not for everyone, obviously.But, you know, doing all these things and having the time of my life I've had over the last four years, which I couldn't have dreamed of when Steven Gerrard left on the day when we lost to Fulham 4 -1.It's insane.So, for me, at the moment, I'm sort of saying I will accept it.As long as we keep pushing forward.

Where's the line?

The problem is, where's the line?

There's not a line.We're as big a club as anybody in the Premier League.You've got to remember that, mate.Honestly, you haven't been around as long as I have.Villa are as big a club as anybody in the Premier League.And if we can't release the shackles, and no offence to Liverpool, you're saying £400 million they spent in the summer and you're saying the squad wasn't capable of competing.

We spent net £30 million.and we've won a trophy and finished fourth.I think it's unbelievable what Villa have done, mate.

Sorry to keep interrupting you but I'm really curious about Emery.If you think that he's the best manager comfortably in the Premier League and Shade's talking about all these other clubs needing him, why is no one sniffing around for him?I think clubs have, that's the reality.

There's a lot of buy -in that are asking.Unai Emery, I think eventually, at some stage of his career will want to win the Champions League.What he's done in the Europa League is unbelievable, but whether you're a player or a manager, you don't want to be known as the Europa League man, the next level of the Champions League.He's had a couple of opportunities at what we'd call the elite clubs in terms of Paris Saint -Germain and Arsenal and it hasn't quite worked.Is that because he doesn't have the full control in terms of running the whole ship like he does at Aston Villa?And also it's probably his style of management, obviously I've never been managed by him but he's almost micromanaged his players and meetings.

Now whether the absolute superstar players, you know the best players in the world, would sort of want Unai Emery in team meetings every day I don't know, that's probably one of the reasons why But when you actually look at his body of work and what he's won and the clubs he's been at Right now when you look at the Premier League and we've all got new managers at most of the clubs And I know you're thinking Arteta But it's Arteta's first job, he's done a brilliant job But he's won the Premier League after seven years, he won one FA Cup I think he's still got a few more trophies to go Where he could have a body of work, where he could look at what Unai Emery's done Yes, at lesser clubs and he's still got that probably hasn't proven himself as the real elite giant Champions League club, that might be next for him in terms of the next few years.

I think it's a good point and I think why I think it probably didn't work at Arsenal and maybe not so much at PSG is that he went in and tried to put his philosophy into those hyper massivemassive personalities, the biggest players in the world.But what Avila is doing now is put this foundation in place.So if we can break through the glass ceiling, if we're close to doing now, then he can start bringing those top top players in and then they will have to buy into what the club is, you know, the philosophy of the club is.And I think that's a lot easier to do when you've had four years to build something than leaving and going to Real Madrid and saying from day one, Five hour meetings, lads.No, we ain't doing that.

But at Villa, it's you come into that group of players that know that it's a five hour meeting.You either say, yeah, I'm up for it, or I don't sign.Whereas I think that's a lot easier way to sort of...And I think that's where he's at.That's why I say over the next two, three years, it's going to be critical to break that real, real...

Do you think they can challenge for the Premier League title in two, three years?

Yeah, I think eventually, yeah.

I was delighted that you won, I really was.And I was also delighted to see Crystal Palace win.The Conference League, Dan.I mean, what a time you've had over the last, what?

A couple of years?Well, you can look at sort of 13 months really with the FA Cup final, the Community Shield and this.And, you know, obviously it's easy to come on here and say time of my life, but it genuinely has been.You know, you look back to 2010, and the club was going to be liquidated.We had to go to Sheffield Wednesday.We had to get a draw.

We had nine players in the first team that summer.We've since done 13 straight years in the Premier League, been in two FA Cup finals.Just, you know, every single year, it's very easy, I think, for neutrals to look at Oliver Glasner and say, that's the guy that's completely changed it.And he has.You know, he came in, he said, I'm not a magician.And everyone's like, well, you're a liar, because you've come in and you've completely transformed the club.

But it's not just that Oliver Glasner turned up and suddenly we became this team.There are foundations, there are all sorts of players that I could name across the last 15 or 16 years that have built us to this point.But one thing Oliver Glasner did do was change the mentality and the expectation of the squad.Because I think if you look at Roy Hodgson, the definition of a safe pair of hands, someone that came in, wanted to stabilise, kept us in mid -table, we were never going to be relegated, but it wasn't a case of us aiming for the stars.And Oliver Glasner came in and said, why not?And I think it took not just the fans and the players, but the ownership as well, six to 12 months to sort of understand it was possible.

And for us to get in the FA Cup run, I mean, we went to Fulham in the quarterfinal.and it just felt different.We won that game, we took Villa apart in the semi, probably the best 90 -minute performance I've ever seen out of a Palace team, and Justin would probably back up, we battered them that day.Played City in the final, no -one really gave us a chance from a neutral perspective, went and won that, then go and win a Community Shield against the Premier League champions, and I know that people don't take the Community Shield seriously in terms of the elites, but for us to be there, having won the FA Cup and then win again, Pinch yourself stuff and then obviously there was all the stuff for the Europa League being booted out of that going into the conference Around Christmas time it very much came that the wheels were coming off, you know Mark Gaye went to Manchester City Oliver Glasner came at a press conference Said he couldn't work under these conditions.It felt as though everything had fallen apart and and yet credit to him and all the players because as soon as the January window closed, we got back to basics, we made sure that we were safe in the Premier League.We never really looked like we were going to be relegated.

And as soon as the knockout games kicked in, Fiorentina...I know that both Fiorentina and Shakhtar are not teams that have the European pedigree in 2026 that they did maybe 10 or 20 years ago.But for us, it's maiden territory.We're going into Europe, we've never been there before.Went to Florence, sorted it out.went in front after 21 seconds against Shakhtar in Krakow, took them comfortably in the second leg.

And then to go into the final, I wouldn't say I necessarily expected to win because as much as you look at the budgets of the two sides and where Rayo Vallecano would come from, we were always going to be the favourites, but it's still Crystal Palace in a European final.And we were just comfortable.You know, over the course of the game, I think we deserved it.I mean, Pino's free kick, I'm sure many of you have seen it.I have no idea.It doesn't go in.

And yeah, we saw it out, and he's given me the best 18 months of my life.

Are you worried you've lost your pep?

Yes and no.I think, I mean, I've said this to a fair few people.We can't, as a fan base, expect to have this.It's not going to be the norm.It can't be.You know, you've already mentioned with Aston Villa.

There are financial powers above us.What he has done, in many senses is hamstring future managers because they can't get away with saying, we're Crystal Palace, you can't expect to win things, because we know it's possible.So, that sense before, five, ten years ago of, well, we can't be in finals, we can't go and do this, we know that we can do it, it's just a case of dancing through raindrops.And hopefully, whoever comes in next has that same mentality, because I think that's the key thing that has shifted over the last two years.

Who do you want to come in?

Initially I wanted Andoni Iriola and I honestly believed that if it weren't for Liverpool making a change it would have been possible.I'm not saying it would have happened but I think there was a chance.I think we'd been speaking to him for a fair while and obviously Liverpool come in, it's a very different knock.

Sorry for jumping in.I think for most people looking on the outside when it was Iriola's going to go to Crystal Palace, no disrespect but it felt like...Sideways.I didn't quite understand it.What was going on?Listen, you know the insides of the club.

What would they think?

As far as I know, and this isn't me saying categorically...believe, because obviously Oliver Glasner told the club in October that he was going to be leaving.We've been speaking to him informally from November onwards.His North Star prior to the Liverpool interest was always the Bill Bow job.And I think Terzic has gone in there and signed a two -year deal.And he probably saw Crystal Palace as this ideal sort of, not next rung up on a ladder, but an opportunity for him to potentially go into European football again.

I think the key factor was that we were going to give him complete control of the transfer market in terms of who came in and who didn't.And if you look at Bournemouth, with Semenyo, with Kyrgiz, with all sorts of players, they are hamstrung financially.So I think he saw potentially an opportunity to have two years where he can bring players in that he wants, let the players that he's not that bothered about leave.and sort of continue to boost his reputation.

But isn't that why Glasner left?

Or he had problems with the board?

Glasner's situation is very murky.He signed this two -and -a -bit -year deal, made it very clear to the board that he wasn't going to be sticking around.No -one really knows why.I don't think it's necessarily a falling out, because if you listen to the owners, there's no sort of crossed words, but I think it was just a marriage of convenience that ran its course.But it's about getting the next one right now.

Right, Dan.Dan the man. I was at the last game of the season, the 3 -0 win against Leeds, but I think even in the game, obviously you were there, there was no real feeling that...I didn't get the feeling that going into the game that West Ham supporters were too hopeful that it was going to turn around on that day.You're obviously devastated, but who's the person you think of, almost like the reason why, who do you put the blame at their door?

Wes.In a bigger scale, David Sullivan.I've got blame for Nuno, I've got blame for players, but it comes down to Sullivan and the way that he scammed the fans.really, and we have been scammed.You know, you come in, purport yourself to be a West Ham fan, you tell us...You know, we have to move.

We have to move to London to compete with the Arsenals and the Chelseas and the Liverpools.We have to move to get Champions League football.The sightlines are going to be equal to Upton Park.Here's all these images.Look how brilliant it looks.And then we get there.

And someone said it on my channel.He promised us Champions League and delivered the championship.So we give up so much and years of bad recruitment, bad decision making, lack of ambition when it comes to managers.has got us where we deserve to be right now, not the fans, but the club.

I don't think I've ever heard a fan base so unhappy with a stadium move as West Ham supporters.It doesn't feel like anybody's happy with that or can see any uplift in any way.You get 60 ,000 there, what was West Ham, 40?It was about 35.35, 40.Is there no way you could see what they were thinking in terms of, you know, more fans, more money into the club, supposedly buy better players, we have more revenue?

Yeah, well, I just, I look at it and I think, because I've seen a lot of people in media say, you know, they had to take the deal, it was too good to turn down.Tottenham... had the chance to take that stadium.What did they say?They said, we'll have it, but we've got to knock it down.It's not a football stadium.They saw the problems with it.

They didn't take this beautiful deal.And yeah, you can look at revenues and things like that, but when you're not run well as a football club, look, we've got a 60 ,000 seat stadium and we're relegated.Bournemouth have an 11 ,000 seat stadium.Now they're playing in Europe.Palace have 25 ,000 seats, they've not only equaled what we've achieved since we've moved it, they've surpassed what we've achieved since we've moved.Sunderland were in League One, now they're playing European football.

You know, all these clubs did not have to move.It comes from the top, it comes from the structure and how you run as a football club.And we are still run like a 90s football club, like we're in the 80s and 90s.We're like 30 years behind every other club and how they do things.You know, when you've got an owner getting on the phone to, you know, agents and clubs going, yeah, I fancy that player.Oh, you know, give me a discount on that.

What modern Premier League club runs like that?Our training facilities.I've just seen Holward getting a brand new state -of -the -art training facilities.Antonio, he came up in a podcast and said how when they was at Shadwell Leaf and they was moving to our current one, they was promised it was going to be this new state -of -the -art facility and they said it was just this port of cabins.

So everything we do… Sorry, do the fans take any blame when you say from a West Ham… Just go back like obviously when David Moyes was there, they had a European trophy similar to you talking about Palace and… But the fans were on his case, weren't they?Saying, no, we want a different style of football.Do you think, would you have got relegated had Moyes stayed, for example?Or was that the owners made that decision?Or was the fans part of that decision?

Well, the fans, yeah, there was definitely unrest that season because, you know, we was playing the worst football ever, right?And this wasn't the football that Moyes played when he first came, by the way.He started playing the counter -attacking football.And it worked and we liked it, but teams figured us out.And it stopped working because Keats' team started paying us more respect.So we changed the style and it didn't work.

But, you know, we worked in Europe but not in the league and we went back.So anyway, we're conceding like six nils, five nils.Of course we're going to be unhappy.But that's not why he left.He left because they brought in a director of football and they said to David Moyes, right, here's a new contract, we're going to take away the manager contract, so head coach contract, we want you to be a head coach.Moyes, old school, did not want to be a head coach, so he left.

And when it comes down to Moyes,and I always get this a lot, you know, if you had Moyes, if you had Moyes, all these other clubs, like I said, Bournemouth don't have Moyes, Palace don't have Moyes, how do all these other clubs do it?It's what you do after Moyes.You know, we just talked about Hodgson, steady, stable manager.You know, you don't think, how can you get rid of Hodgson?No, they get rid of Hodgson, you bring in someone like Glasner.

You know, Emery, why could we never go and get these managers?They slapped down, how much was it?Was it eight million or something?Eight million, we'll have Emery.No, we go, who's free?Lopetegui, he's out of a job, he managed in the Premier League.

Graham Potter, yeah, he's free, he managed in the Premier League.Nuno, we've just slapped him 3 -0.Yeah, he's managing the Premier League and he's just been sacked.Let's have him.There's never any ambition.

Are you happy Nuno stayed and do you think he's probably the right man to bring you straight back up from the Championship?He's won the Championship, hasn't he, before with Wolves?Yeah, I think puff of breath.

Give me a second here.My initial feeling was at the end of the season, I wanted Nuno gone.I think he's bottled it this season.He's made a horrific job of keeping us up.When he took us over, we were two points from safety.And at the end of the season we're two points from safety.

We did well to claw back and we went on a little run but there's so many games where he's just thrown it away.We were 2 -0 up at Bournemouth, take off striker, bring on a defender, we go to draw the game.The Newcastle result was where I really turned on Nuno, the Newcastle game.Because you go into that game, a game we have to win.And you play a back five, a formation that we have never won in this season.And Newcastle rarely lose against.

And you just think, why are you changing it?That run we had is when you started playing that sort of two up top system.And you just change it for no reason.And he just goes negative.And then 20 minutes in, he's like, oh, I've made a huge mistake.I've got to change it up and go back to what worked and it's too late but I feel like ultimately is probably the right decision to stick with him because we would have been on this looking for managers and it would have been like someone like Scott Parker who good track record of getting you out the championship not a good track record of keeping you in the Premier League so the managers that we would have looked at Daesh I wouldn't have got rid of him for so at least now we we've can go and start focusing on recruitment.

Because we're miles behind other championship clubs.We've got to sell a load of players before we can think about bringing anyone in.You think how quickly it changed for Nuno.

The season before the Forrestal was Champions League, probably going for manager there.He bottled that as well.He bottled that spectacularly, Nuno.Alright, well listen, we're going to finish there.Thanks guys.And that is it for another great episode of the Fan Debate brought to you by Sky Bet.

Catch you next time.