Meet the Press Full Episode — Oct. 5

This Sunday, breakthrough. Hamas agrees to release all Israeli hostages and expresses a willingness to accept President Trump's peace plan.

Everybody was unified in wanting this war to end and seeing peace in the Middle East. And we're very close to achieving that.

Will the plan work? I'll talk to Secretary of State Marco Rubio. Plus, standoff. The federal government shutdown drags on after Republicans reject Democrats' demands to extend health insurance subsidies.

The public knows that Donald Trump and Republicans have shut the federal government down.

Democrats in Congress have dragged our country into another reckless shutdown to satisfy their far-left base. How long will it last and

how many federal workers could face layoffs? I'll talk to Republican Speaker of the House Mike Johnson of Louisiana and House Democratic Leader Hakeem Jeffries of New York. Plus, war from within. At a gathering of the military's top leaders, President Trump warns of what he calls a war from within. At a gathering of the military's top leaders, President Trump warns of what he calls a war from within, that he wants to fight using the US military against American citizens.

We should use some of these dangerous cities as training grounds for our military.

I'll talk to Democratic Senator Adam Schiff of California. Joining me for insight and analysis are NBC News Chief Foreign Affairs Correspondent Andrea Mitchell, NBC News Chief Capitol Hill Correspondent Ryan Nobles, Mark Short, former Director of Legislative Affairs for President Trump, and Neera Tanden, President of the Center for American Progress. Welcome to Sunday.

It's Meet the press.

In NBC News in Washington. The longest running show in television history. This is meet the press with Kristen Welker.

Good Sunday morning. The nation is at the epicenter of history making moments here at home and on the global stage. In Washington, business has ground to a halt for the fifth straight day the government closed, with lawmakers deadlocked over how to reopen it. And in the Middle East, just days before the two-year anniversary of the October 7th attacks,

a potential breakthrough on President Trump's 20-point peace proposal, Hamas agreeing to release all of the hostages, and Israel vowing to halt bombing in Gaza. But with key details still lingering, can the nearly two-year war come to an end? And joining me now is Secretary of State Marco Rubio.

Secretary Rubio, welcome back to Meet the Press.

Thank you.

Well, I want to start with these peace negotiations in the Middle East. Is this now the end of the war in Gaza?

Well, not yet. There's some work that remains to be done. And I would view it in two phases in terms of understanding how to break this out. The first piece of it, which is very clear from the letter and Hamas' responses, they have agreed to the president's hostage release framework. And what needs to happen now, and they acknowledge in the letter in their responses, they have agreed to the president's hostage release framework. And what needs to happen now, and they acknowledge in the letter in their responses, there now needs to be meetings which are occurring even as I speak to you now, and hopefully will

be finalized very quickly, on the logistics of that. What that means is, you know, who goes in to get them, is it Red Cross, you know, when do they show up, etc., you know, what place are they going to be in the conditions have to be created for that to happen? You know, you can't have bombs going off and fighting going on in the middle of this exchange So that's piece one the second and we want to see that happen as soon as possible all 48 hostages both living and deceased And there's some need to be released and there's some logistical challenges to that that we'll have to work through But that work is happening even as I speak to you this very moment the second part of it, it's even harder, and that is the long-term piece. What happens after Israel pulls back to the yellow line and potentially beyond that as

this thing develops? How do you create this Palestinian technocratic leadership that's not Hamas, that's not terrorists, and with the help of the international community? How do you disarm any sort of terrorist groups that are going to be building tunnels and conducting attacks against Israel? How do you get them to dem of terrorist groups that are going to be building tunnels and conducting attacks against Israel? How do you get them to demobilize all that work? That's going to be hard, but that's critical because without that

You're not going to have lasting peace. You may get the hostages back. You may get a cessation of hostilities But in the long term it's going to happen all over again So both are going on at the same time but priority number one the one that we think we can achieve something very quickly on hopefully, is the release of all of the hostages in exchange for Israel moving back to that yellow line which is basically where they stood at the middle part of last month of August. And that's the one we're focused on even as I

speak to you now there are people meeting on that. I want to drill down on

the timing of the hostages in just a moment but first just big picture President Trump seems to be taking Hamas' response as a yes to his peace proposal. As you've indicated, though, there's a lot that still needs to be worked out. Hamas didn't mention laying down its arms, for example. Do you see Hamas' response as a yes to President Trump's peace proposal?

Well, it's certainly a yes to at least, look, it's Hamas, okay? So I'm not telling you here that these are people I trust 100% nor should we, but they have said basically that they agree to his proposal and the framework for releasing the hostages. That's an enormous achievement. They've also agreed in principle and generalities to enter into this idea about what's going

to happen afterwards, the Palestinian technocrats, etc. There's a lot of details that are going to have to be worked out there. But look, this is a plan that the president put forward, but let's remember, it has the strong support of the UAE, of Qatar, of Egypt, of Saudi Arabia, the Turks, Indonesia, all these others. So there's a lot of international pressure on Hamas to make this happen and we're going to need them and the European Union and countries from around the world to also participate in making this thing work.

So that second phase, the phase you're discussing, the disarmament, demobilization, that's not going to be easy, that's going to be hard, but it is really important because without it, without demobilization, you're not going to have a lasting peace. A lot of work has to happen there. And we acknowledge that. And we want it to work out. And we're going to do everything we can to make it work.

Prime Minister Netanyahu has indicated he expects the hostages to be released as soon as this week. Is that your expectation, that the hostages will be released this coming week, Mr. Secretary?

I mean, I would like the hostages to have been released yesterday. Now, we need to work through the logistics of how that's going to happen. I mean, again, that sounds simplistic, but it's not just about you got to make sure that there's no fighting going on. You have to make sure the Red Cross can get there. What time they're going to be there, where they're going to be. All that has to be worked through.

And that's not easy in the meeting about right now. I mean that's what the talks are about, that's what the high-level talks are going to be in Cairo tomorrow.

But they could be released this week, Mr. Secretary?

They could be released this week?

Oh, our expectation, yeah, we want it to be as soon as possible. There's no doubt about it. We want it as soon as possible.

Let me ask you about Israel's role in this. Israel has not agreed to fully withdraw from Gaza. What is the time frame by which the United States wants to see that happen? Are we talking weeks, months, years?

No, listen, so first of all, they have agreed, and that's part of the release to move back to the yellow line, which is what they've called it. That's basically where Israel stood in the middle of August. And so they've agreed to that piece. And I think ultimately, everyone has agreed, including Israel, that eventually at some point here, as this process plays

out, Gaza will be governed by a Palestinian technocratic group that's not Hamas, that are not terrorists, with the help and the assistance and the guidance of an international consortium like the Board of Peace, etc. That is the goal everyone who signed on to this agreement has agreed to.

What's the timeframe, though, Mr. Secretary?

Weeks, months, years? Well, that'll take, you know, that'll take, yeah, no, in terms days. I mean it takes some time and when we ask Israel okay you're at the yellow line now everything behind it you have to turn it over you have to have somebody to turn it over to. So I mean let's be realistic here you can't just set up a sort of new governance structure inside of Gaza in 72 hours. That that that it's gonna take some time to do it. The important thing is that there's a plan, it's being executed, it has the money, it has the support, it has the expertise, and that it's moving

forward and everyone has agreed to the parameters of it. But that is ultimately the goal here, that everyone who signed on to President Trump's deal has agreed

to. Mr. Secretary, I want to read point 19 of the president's peace plan. I'll put it up so folks can see it. It says, quote, while Gaza redevelopment advances and when the Palestinian Authority reform program is faithfully carried out, the conditions may finally be in place for a credible pathway to Palestinian self-determination and statehood, which we recognize as the aspiration of the Palestinian people. Does the Trump administration now support Palestinian statehood, Mr.

Secretary? Well look, first of, that provision was very important to the countries that signed on with us and Saudi Arabia, UAE, Qatar, etc. They all really, that's a very important point to them. I think the most important point to read out of that is that you have to have somebody to turn it over to, right? Someone that you can hand that over to. We've always said that if there's going to be a two-state solution it has to be negotiated with Israel. It has to make

sure that Israel's security is taken into account. And so I would argue that I wouldn't say this is a new policy position. What I would say is you want to be able to have in Gaza a place that Israel has no interest in governing Gaza. They want to turn it over to somebody, some organization that will govern it, that will not build tunnels and sponsor terrorism and come across the line and kidnap, rape, and murder Israelis. That's who they want to turn it over to. And right now that doesn't exist.

That has to be built.

But Mr. Secretary, in terms of where the administration stands, yes or no, does the Trump administration support Palestinian statehood?

That's not a yes or no question. That's a process. No, but that's not a yes or no question. That's a process. Ultimately, at the end of the day, we've always said this has been the consistent position of this administration, of myself, and of a lot of people that have watched this for a very long time. In order for that aspiration to even be credible, it has to be realistic. We can't have a Palestinian state that's governed by Hamas or by some terrorist organization whose stated purpose for existence is the destruction of the Jewish state, that would never work.

Until there is, until Gaza is governed by people that are not interested in destroying Israel, until there are no security threats emanating against Israel from Gaza, you're not, forget about statehood, you're not gonna have peace. So we have to create the conditions for that. That's gonna take a while and that's gonna be part of what these negotiations are about in the days to come.

But right now, the priority, number one, is to get the hostages released. If we can't even get an agreement on the hostages being released, you ain't gonna have long-term peace here. So let's get that peace done, it's the most important,

and then we can move to phase two, It'll give momentum to the rest of the effort. But this is not going to be easy. No one said this is going to be easy. We are dealing with something that's been going on for a very long time.

All right. Secretary of State Marco Rubio, thank you very much for your time this morning. We really appreciate it. And when we come back, the government shutdown drags on into its second week. How does it end? and House Democratic Leader Hakeem Jeffries. Join me next. Welcome back. And joining me now is House Democratic Leader Hakeem Jeffries of New York.

Leader Jeffries, welcome back to Meet the Press.

Good morning.

Great to be with you.

Well, it's great to have you here on a very busy morning. I do, of course, want to get to the press. Good morning, great to be with you. Well, it's great to have you here on a very busy morning. I do, of course, want to get to the shutdown, but first I have to ask you about these developments in the Middle East. Of course, Hamas saying that it will in fact turn over the hostages. Leader Jeffries, let me ask you, do you support President Trump's 20-point peace proposal?

I support a path toward a just and lasting peace, and that needs to involve making sure that every single hostage and the remains of those hostages still in Gaza are released immediately. Of course, we need to surge humanitarian assistance into Gaza so we can alleviate the immense suffering

of Palestinian civilians who have been in harm's way through no fault of their own in a theater of war. And of course, we need to make sure that Hamas lays down its arms and that we have a governance structure that is put into place that allows for normalized relations between the Palestinian people and Israel.

All right. Well, let's turn to the big news here in Washington, of course, which is the shutdown. Before lawmakers broke for the weekend, House Speaker Mike Johnson said the House would not return to Capitol Hill this week or in Torr until Leader Schumer reopens the government. When is the last time you spoke with Republican leadership?

Well, the last time there was a conversation with Republican leadership was in the White House meeting last Monday. And unfortunately, since that point in time, Republicans, including Donald Trump, have gone radio silent. And what we've seen is negotiation through deepfake videos, the House canceling votes, and of course, President Trump spending yesterday on the golf course.

That's not responsible behavior. As Democrats, our view is that we will find bipartisan common ground with our Republican colleagues to reopen the government, to actually pass a spending bill that meets the needs of the American people. But we have to decisively address this Republican health care crisis that is devastating hardworking

American taxpayers.

You know, Democrats are demanding an extension of Obamacare tax credits, which expire at the end of the year, as well as other healthcare benefits for the funding bill. Here is what the vice president said about that this week.

Take a look.

It's a lie told by the Democrats that they're not trying to give healthcare benefits to illegal aliens. It's a lie that is obviously untrue if you just look at the text that they gave us.

He says that Democrats are lying. What is your response to that?

Well, unfortunately, Republicans are lying because they're losing in the court of public opinion as it relates to what's going on right now. We are standing up for the health care of hardworking American taxpayers, of working class Americans, of middle class Americans and everyday Americans who have seen over the last several months Republicans pass their one big ugly bill, largest cut to Medicaid

in American history. Hospitals and nursing homes and community-based health clinics are closing all throughout the country, including in rural America. If Republicans continue to refuse to extend the Affordable Care Act tax credits, tens of millions of American taxpayers are going to experience dramatically increased premiums, copays and deductibles. And that information from their insurance companies is going out right now. Now, federal law clearly prohibits the expenditure

of taxpayer dollars to provide health care to undocumented immigrants, period, full stop. And no Democrat on Capitol Hill is trying to change that law.

Leader Jeffries, let me ask you, because as you just mentioned, you are also calling for a complete rollback of the Medicaid cuts, which Republicans just passed. They say it's a nonstarter. Why include that? Why not just focus on your argument

that you wanna see those Obamacare tax credits extended, which expire at the end of the year?

This Republican healthcare crisis is all-encompassing and it has been devastating to the well-being of the American people. We're talking about people in rural America, working-class America, urban America, small-town America, the heartland of America, and black and brown communities all throughout America. Now, we have made clear that in terms of what's immediately in front of us, there, of course, is an urgent

need to address the Affordable Care Act and the Republicans' refusal to extend these tax credits. What we're talking about here is a dramatic impact on real, everyday Americans. A married couple of two, for instance, that makes $88,000 a year, a modest amount, currently pays about $8,000 a year in their health care insurance. That's already too much. But if these Affordable Care Act tax credits expire, that same couple will be forced to pay $24,000 a

year. It's unaffordable. It will bankrupt them. It will leave them without coverage. And those are the people who we're fighting for. But let me ask you, because

you say this is a Republican shutdown, but it's Democratic senators who are withholding their votes on what is called a clean resolution. That means no strings attached, which is something, quite frankly, leader, that you and other Democrats have advocated for in the past.

Take a look.

You do not use the threat of shutting down government to try to advance your policy agenda.

First thing that the House has to do is pass a clean six-week CR.

A continuing resolution that is at the fiscal year 2023 levels is the only way forward.

Why not fund the government and debate extending Obamacare tax credits after the fact they don't expire till the end of the year? What we've called for is a bipartisan negotiation where Democrats and

Republicans can sit down in good faith, reopen the government, pass a spending bill that actually improves the quality of life of the American people in an environment where the cost of living is already too high. Republicans promised to lower costs on day one. Costs aren't going down, they're going up. And if these Affordable Care Act tax credits are allowed to expire, premiums and health care costs are going to skyrocket. And America is already too expensive for the American people because of the Trump-failed policies, the Trump tariffs. And this will

make things worse. So we just want a bipartisan negotiation that addresses the health care crisis at the same period of time with the fierce urgency of now.

Let me ask you, because the administration has personally targeted you with memes throughout this negotiation, we'll show a screenshot of one of the videos. This was put out by the president. The president also called the Democrats the party of, quote, hate, evil and Satan. Is the president someone you still feel like you can negotiate with? Do you have that relationship with him?

Well, that behavior is outrageous, it's unhinged, it's unreasonable, and it speaks for itself. The American people deserve better than lies, than attacks, than deepfake videos, than the president spending all of his time

on the golf course. We need serious leadership and we will continue to make clear, Leader Schumer and myself, that we will sit down anytime, anyplace, with anyone to address this issue with the seriousness that it deserves to stand up for this the American people in addressing this cost of living crisis and this health care crisis that Republicans have visited upon the country.

All right. Leader Jeffries, thank you so much for joining us. We really appreciate it. Thank you. And joining me now is the Speaker of the House, Mike Johnson of Louisiana. Mr. Speaker, welcome back to Meet the Press.

Thanks for having me.

Thank you so much for being here in person. Let's talk about your latest move. You announced this week that the House will not be in session until the government reopens. But there are still things that you could be doing. There are appropriations bills that you could be working on. There's a new Democratic congresswoman who still needs to be sworn in. Isn't there still critical work that you could be doing on behalf of the American public?

We're doing that critical work. Let me just start by saying, I listened to my friend Hakim there, and when we used to do debate competitions in high school, they taught us to watch out for the red herring. The red herring is a distraction. Literally everything my friend just said there was unnecessary, because what he's trying to talk about

is the December funding issue, the health care provision, some of these Obamacare subsidies that expired December 31st. He is looking over entirely the fact that we have to keep the government open in order to have those bipartisan debates and discussions that he just referenced. The simple CR that we passed in the House more than two weeks ago does exactly that. It is a clean CR, it's only 24 pages in length, it's the simplest thing that's ever been done, and it's exactly what Chuck Schumer and Hakeem

Jeffries and all the rest of them said must be done. You saw the tape. We could roll that tape for hours, all of them saying this passionately as recently

as earlier this year, that we had to keep the government open in order to do our job. critical work though and as you know many Democrats have looked at your move they say the House is not in session because you don't want to swear in this newly elected senator the congresswoman Democratic congresswoman from Arizona who would be a critical vote to releasing the Epstein files how do you

respond it's totally absurd this has nothing to do with that it's another red herring the reason the government is closed is because Chuck Schumer and 43 of his Democrat colleagues in the Senate have decided now to vote multiple times to keep the government closed. We need them to turn the lights back on so that everyone can do their work. The House did our work. We passed a bipartisan, clean, continuing resolution to keep the government open.

And what did Chuck Schumer send back in response? His counterproposal would add 1.5 trillion dollars in new spending for a simple seven-week stopgap funding measure to keep the government open so all these appropriations bills can be finished and and they want to claw back 50 billion dollars that we put in for rural hospitals to prop them up. They're not serious. This is not a serious negotiation. They're doing this to get

political cover because Chuck Schumer is afraid that he won't win his next re-election bid to the Senate because he's gonna be challenged by a Marxist in New York because that's the new popular thing out there.

Well, let me ask you about some of the issues at play here because President Trump, the White House says it's preparing to potentially lay off, actually lay off thousands of federal workers. That's never been done before in a shutdown. Do you support laying off thousands of federal workers as a part of this shutdown?

We haven't seen the details yet about what's happening, but it is a regrettable situation that the president does not want. The president asked Chuck Schumer and Hakeem Jeffries in the Oval Office about a week ago, please don't do this. Please keep the government open, and we'll work out all these issues that that we have plenty of time to work out What do you want to see though? Do you want to see thousands of federal workers laid off?

No

I want Chuck Schumer to do the right thing that he's done throughout his 30 plus year career in Congress and vote to keep the government Open but it's never happened before you we see furloughs. We a situation like this where the Senate Democrats have decided to turn the keys to the kingdom over to the to the White House, they have to make tough decisions. Russ Vogt runs the Office of Management and Budget. He has to now look at all of the federal government, recognizing that the funding streams have been turned off and determine what are essential programs, policies, and personnel. That's not a job that he relishes, but he's

being required to do it by Chuck Schumer.

All right. Well, let me ask you about what's at the crux of this. Democrats are demanding the funding bill include an extension of the Obamacare tax credits as we've been talking about. They're set to expire at the end of the year. More than three quarters of the people who get health insurance through Obamacare actually

live in states that President Trump won in 2024. We're talking about some 19 million people, Mr. Speaker. Can those people depend on congressional Republicans to extend those health insurance tax

credits by the time they expire? We have plenty of time to figure that out because again it doesn't expire until the end of the year. Do you commit to that? I commit to what Republicans have always done and what we've already proven this year in the one big beautiful bill, the Working Families Tax Cuts. Republicans are the ones in Congress working to improve health care access quality and make it cheaper.

We want to bring the cost down of health care. Premiums are too high. But it's not because of Republican policies. It's because Obamacare is not working. We're trying to fix it. We've just shown in the one big beautiful bill, the Working Families Tax Cut,

those reforms we made to Medicaid are not cuts to Medicaid. Medicaid will continue to grow. It's just growing at a slower pace. Why? Because we got illegal aliens

and able-bodied young men without dependents off of Medicaid. They were never planned to be there in the first place. And what the Democrats are demanding right now to keep the government open is we put them all back on there. We're not doing that.

Let's just set the table here for folks and I'll just... Leader Jeffries talked about this but just to reiterate to you the point that he just made undocumented immigrants as you know are actually ineligible for federal health care.

No, no, let me correct you.

Let me say it, then you can talk, okay? Right now, undocumented immigrants are not eligible for federal health care programs. Democrats, as you heard, say they're not trying to change that. But one of their demands would restore Medicaid funding for hospitals to give emergency care, including to undocumented immigrants. Are you suggesting, Mr. Speaker, that ER doctors check people's immigration status before they render

emergency care? No, again it's another red herring. What the Democrats are demanding is that illegal aliens that care for them in an emergency room should be reimbursed at a higher rate. To the hospitals? To the hospitals than American citizens, young pregnant women. They want to pay more for illegal aliens than U.S. citizens, and we are against that. The reason it's illegal right now for illegal aliens to receive taxpayer-funded benefits is because Republicans wrote it into the law July 4th.

Look at, don't take my word for it, look at page 57, section 2141 of Chuck Schumer's counterproposal. It's on my website at speaker.gov. Everybody go look. Don't take my word for it. Read their section. They want to reverse those changes.

But first of all, law was put in place during the Reagan administration, which guarantees that anyone who walks into a hospital

gets critical care.

So were you saying, because basically the implications of what you're implying is that ER doctors should be checking people's immigration. If someone walks into a hospital and they're bleeding out, should

an ER doctor not render care to that person? No, it's another red herring. I'm

not implying that at all. Everyone knows when the hospitals seek reimbursement from the federal government. What they did under the Biden administration is they set in place a program that pays the hospitals more for illegal aliens than US citizens. That is outrageous. If you look at the, on speaker.gov, you can see step by step there's five different sections of our repeals of the law we did in July

4th that Democrats are demanding to reverse right now. It will spend 200 billion dollars of hard-working taxpayer funds to pay for health care for

illegals. We're not doing that. What you reference refers to lawfully present people who are here, immigrants, DACA recipients. Let me move on, because we are running out of time. I want to move on to a speech that President Trump gave earlier this week to the nation's top military leaders. Take a listen. I'll get your reaction on the other side.

It seems that the ones that are run by the radical left Democrats, what they've done to San Francisco, Chicago, New York, Los Angeles. They're very unsafe places, and we're going to straighten them out one by one. And this is going to be a major part for some of the people in this room. That's a war, too. It's a war from within.

Do you support the American military being used to fight American citizens?

That's not what the president just said there. That's a mischaracterization of what he said. What do you believe he said? There is a war on crime, and I will use as example A, what's happened here in the District of Columbia. We're much safer.

Everyone on your staff could walk from their cars to the studio this morning. Why? Because there are National Guard troops patrolling the streets. Before this, it was a literal war zone. This is one of the most dangerous cities in America. What he's saying is he's the president for law and order. He's restoring the safety of American citizens. You should not have to fear to walk to your car this afternoon and you don't have to now because President Trump is in charge. You're saying it's a

literal war zone. Crime was decreasing here in the reinforcements? But war zones a different characterization. We know that the president just sent in 300, is saying 300 National Guard troops will be sent into Chicago. Again, the governor saying he doesn't want that. Is this an appropriate use of the US military?

I don't think you should ask the governor. I think you should ask the citizens who are in fear for their lives and livelihoods in

these cities.

What say you, though? What say you about the use of the American military in this way in U.S. cities?

I've talked with National Guardsmen who are here in D.C. They are proud of the work they've done and the people here are benefiting from it greatly. Not Republicans, everybody. Because it's a safer street. This is the most, this greatest nation in the history of the world, this most beautiful capital city. It should be safe. The model here could be the model elsewhere and in a few of these blue states in deep blue cities that are run by soft on crime mayors, they need some help. The citizens need help. President

Trump is a bold leader who's providing it. All right, worth noting that the

citizens did elect the mayors and the governors. Some of them regret that. All right. All right. House Speaker Mike Johnson, thank you for being here. Really appreciate it. When we come back, Democratic Senator Adam Schiff of California joins me next. Welcome back and joining me now is Democratic Senator Adam Schiff of California. Senator Schiff, welcome back to Meet the Press. Great to be with you. Great to have you here.

Thank you so much for being here. I do want to start right where I left off with the House Speaker, the government shutdown. Three of your colleagues in the Democratic caucus have broken rank. They voted with Republicans to keep the government open. How confident are you that Democrats will stay united in this fight?

I'm confident all Democrats understand that millions and millions of their constituents are about to be priced out of their health care. I was in California last week, in Oceanside and in Anaheim. Average families of four are going to see the premiums go up by $900 to $1,000 a month.

No one can afford that. And that's going to happen the premiums go up by $900 to $1,000 a month. No one can afford that. And that's going to happen all across the country. So I think all my colleagues understand the crisis. We need a president who can act like an adult, who can come to the table and negotiate an end to their self-imposed health care crisis.

Right now, we don't see that. We see Trump out on the golf course. We see the speaker telling his house Colleagues not to even come to session that there's no work for the federal government to do apparently That's completely unacceptable and in addition to the need to restore Healthcare affordability for people we need to make sure that any agreement that we reach with Republicans They will honor because right now they're telling us you could reach an agreement with us but we're simply gonna withhold any money that's

important to you any programs that are important to you and as for the speaker telling you or not telling you his position on the president threatening layoffs of mass layoffs of federal employees there's no one forcing him to do that he will do that because he wants to do that, because he and Russell Vought want to cause even more pain for the American people. That is unprecedented.

No other president during shutdown has sought to maximize the harms to people, but that's where this president is coming from.

Well, let me ask you, you heard Speaker Johnson, as you're just referencing, criticize Democrats for using the government shutdown to press for an extension of those Obamacare tax subsidies. But you actually did make a similar point back in 2013. That's when Tea Party Republicans pushed to shut down the government against Obamacare. Let me play that for you, get your reaction on the other side.

It's more than fair to ask the president to negotiate improvements to the Affordable Care Act, but not with the threat of shutting down the government or defaulting on our debt. It's just no way to do business and can't be allowed to proceed that way, not only for this president, but for future presidents.

Senator, why is now different?

It's different in two respects. It's different because in a month or two, millions of Americans are not going to be able to afford health care So there is a crisis now that we didn't have then the crisis is far worse now I should say then we had then but there's another difference too And that is there that was a time when if we did agree on a continuing resolution

Republicans were promising to honor it now They're promising not to honor it you have the president Russell Votes saying they're going to continue to illegally withhold money so if we agree to a CR and nothing more, they're telling us we don't plan to abide by it. So it is very different than it was in the past. We need both to address the health care crisis and we need some written assurance in the

law. I won't take a promise that they're not going to renege on any deal we make.

Let me ask you about another matter here, Senator. I want to talk about the president's speech and Defense Secretary Pete Hegsis' speech as well to the armed forces earlier this week. I'm going to play a little bit more of what we heard from President Trump.

Get your reaction on the other side. And I told Pete we should use some of these dangerous cities as training grounds for our military, national guard, but military.

And as I just said earlier, President Trump has now ordered 300 National Guard troops to Chicago over the objections of the Illinois governor. How should Democrats respond? What can you do? What recourse do you have?

First of all, the president was being candid when he described these American cities as the enemy within. He views them as the enemy within. That is unprecedented in its dangerousness. That is, that American president views cities

that didn't support him or states that didn't support him as the enemy. That he describes the opposite party as beholden to Satan. That's where this president is coming from and the idea that we will militarize these cities, that we will impose the US military on the mayors and governors of those cities and states should be unthinkable. And for Speaker Johnson to claim as he did when you

interviewed him that somehow these National Guard troops that over the governor's opposition are being forced to engage in policing or immigration enforcement are very happy to be doing it. I can tell you in California the National Guard were not happy to be doing it. It is, I think, greatly impacting morale, the National Guard, and it is also disrupting the trust that Americans have for their National Guard. We have a particular bond in California where they come to our rescue during fires and floods

and other natural disasters. That is being eroded, as I think is also military readiness when we're diverting military resources for these improper purposes. Let me turn to another topic. On remedies. Yes. The only remedy we have is litigation and as we just saw in Portland where a judge struck down their ability to misuse troops this way, it is an effective remedy although the Supreme Court is still very much in doubt in terms of whether

they will uphold or strike this down.

Well, you raised the judicial system. You take me to my next question. Former FBI Director James Comey was, as you know, indicted five days after President Trump posted this to his Attorney General, Pam Bondi. Let me read it and remind our viewers, quote, quote Pam I have reviewed over 30 statements and posts saying that essentially same old story as last time all talk no action Nothing is being done. What about Comey Adam shifty Schiff Letitia?

They're all guilty as hell But nothing is going to be done given how quickly the Justice Department moved to press criminal charges Against James Comey, are you concerned, Senator, that you could be next?

Well, first of all, the Republican U.S. attorney in Virginia refused to go forward with this prosecution of James Comey because he thought it lacked evidence. They fired him. They fired him and replaced him with a personal lawyer of the president's, an insurance lawyer, to seek these charges. That is unheard of.

I spent almost six years in the Justice Department, never saw anything remotely like this. And for the president to, on social media, badger his attorney general to go after people. You know, let me just say this, because it's connected to your previous question about the enemy within. He's described me as the enemy within. He's described other Democratic elected officials as the enemy within.

He is using the Justice Department to go after his political enemies, and he's using the Justice Department to protect his political friends, like Tom Holman, the border czar, who reportedly took $50,000 in cash from undercover FBI agents, and they made the case go away. This should concern every American, not just those he's tweeting about like myself, but anyone who cares about whether the Justice Department can be used

against people for expressing their views, or doing their job, or holding the president accountable. Anyone who cares about whether the administration can go after late night comedians, or tell corporations who they can hire, or tell law firms who they can represent. It is all part of the same attack on our democracy. And I will say if this goes on, if Republicans

allow this to go on for four years, there will be nothing left of our democracy. We have an opportunity to stop this. It would require just a handful of Republicans of conscience to oppose these lawless actions, this abuse of the Justice Department and abuse of the FEC and everything else. We need them to stand up and do their duty.

Senator Adam Schiff, thank you so much for being here.

Thank you.

We really appreciate it.

And when we come back, President Trump's message to the hundreds of military leaders and how it compares to the Pentagon of the past. Our Meet the Press Minute is next. Welcome back. This week, President Trump and Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth spoke before an unprecedented gathering of more than 800 generals and admirals where President Trump suggested American cities should be used as training grounds for the military and

said the US should project more military power. But in the wake of the September 11th attacks, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld struck a different note. He joined Meet the Press to discuss the tension between war and defense.

Many people have commented that for the first eight months as Secretary of Defense, you seem to be insular, detached. But since September 11th, as Secretary of War, you've been energized.

Do you think that's fair? Oh, I don't know. It's not for me to judge. We had we had a lot of complicated things to deal with. This institution the Department of Defense is so central to peace and stability in the world and to our economy. And it's the underpinning of our economy. We don't have a healthy economic situation in the world absent peace and stability. So how we behave is enormously important, and we must transform this institution. We cannot simply hang on to the capabilities that were appropriate in a prior century. We need to think things anew.

We need to take steps that are bold and innovative and that will position us so that we can continue to provide peace and stability in the period ahead.

And when we come back, how long will the government shutdown last? And is the war in Gaza nearing its end? The panel is next. Welcome back. The panel is here. Andrea Mitchell, NBC News chief foreign affairs correspondent and chief Washington correspondent. Ryan Nobles, NBC News chief Capitol Hill correspondent.

Neera Tanden, president and CEO of the Center for American Progress. And Mark Short, former Trump director of legislative affairs. Thank you all for being here on an incredibly busy Sunday. Andrea, let me start with you. I know you've been working your sources on this 20-point plan of the president's. You heard what the Secretary of State had to say.

Where do you see this going from here? Could this, in fact, be the end of the war in Gaza?

Potentially, this is such a big deal. Look, if they get the hostages out, as the Secretary said, that is the top priority. But then comes the hard part. You've got Hamas that has not agreed to disarm. You've got Israel, which has not set a timetable for withdrawal and is now taking more land from Gaza in a buffer zone than anyone had contemplated. So all of this is to be negotiated.

They are now in Egypt negotiating, Steve Whitkoff, Jared Kushner, and talking to Hamas. Hamas is divided between the military and the political branches, but the important thing is that Hamas is now really isolated. The Arab countries all came together in New York

when they were here for the UN meetings with the president. That is a huge factor. And partly, that's because of Israel's biggest mistake, which was to attack Qatar. This united the Arab world. It infuriated President Trump.

For the first time, we're seeing President Trump really putting pressure on Netanyahu to stop the bombing. When he said that, it was very significant. So this could be transformational and you know if this were to work out and you know it was it would be the Abraham Accords it would be recognition of Israel transform the whole region and President Trump would deserve that Nobel Prize Wow you know

certainly it's something that he has certainly according to folks who are close to him has been eyeing mark Mark, Andrea makes, I think, a really critical point here, which is that after Israel targeted Hamas in Qatar, there was that backlash. President Trump was infuriated. He had Prime Minister Netanyahu call the Qataris to apologize. What does this moment say about the state of the relationship between President Trump

and Prime Minister Netanyahu?

Well, as Andrea said, this could be a giant breakthrough. And I think the President has stood behind Israel throughout both his first and second term and deserves credit for that. But there is strain there. I mean, the reality is, we have to keep in mind, the reality that the reason the bombing happened is because Qatar has housed Hamas and terrorists before. That's the only reason there was a bombing there in the first place. And so, you know, as you look to this deal, I think there's a lot that still has to play out. It's giving up 1,700 terrorist hostages from Israel, basically created a potential pathway to statehood because of an invasion two years ago that slaughtered Israelis. There's a lot

here that still has to play out. No, no doubt gonna track every twist and turn closely as we are tracking every twist and turn here in Washington. Ryan Nobles with that I turn to you. We heard from the Speaker of the House, we heard from the minority leader. Both sides seem as dug in as ever this morning. Where are we in this battle to reopen the government? Well I think it says

something that the closest these two men have gotten to talking in a room is through your show this morning, Kristen. They're debating about this in public. They're not having serious negotiations behind closed doors. And that's why I think the shutdown is

going to take a little bit longer than anybody had originally anticipated. The biggest thing right now is about the moderate Democrats in the Senate, right? They were the ones that broke in the spring. I remember standing outside of a room on Capitol Hill where we literally heard them screaming at each other as to whether or not they should hold ground and stand up to Donald Trump.

That's not happening now. That moderate middle is holding. It could have something to do with the fact that folks like Gary Peters, Jean Shaheen are not running for re-election. They can stand up to Trump without consequence, but right now Democrats are unified and that's why this shutdown is gonna continue

Will they continue to hold you have congresswoman? Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez of the progressive base of the Democratic Party cheering on Chuck Schumer and Hakeem Jeffries But to Ryan's point, it's all about the moderates in the middle

Absolutely And I think the moderates see a world in which the Wall Street Journal has leaks that Donald Trump and the White House are concerned About the premium tax credits. Josh Hawley, he's good they're concerned that they have to actually deal with this problem. Josh Hawley's puts out quotes basically saying Republicans have to deal with this and Senator Thune's position is and as you heard Mike Johnson's will deal with this

but actually after people get their notices and I think that's what's so odd about this posture, because honestly, this is a real problem people are facing. People have talked about the fact that 75% of the people who are going to get the real shocks are in Republican states.

And they are seeing, at the very least, doubling of their premiums. And I think, fundamentally, this is a cost of living issue. And the American people want it solved.

Mark, a majority of people are saying they want to see these Obamacare tax credits extended. To what extent is that a pressure point on the White House?

Well, look, I think sadly Republicans are going to cave on this in the end.

You do?

Of course. The bottom line, Kristen, is that look, the Democrats are really shrewd when they put the Obamacare subsidies in the plan. They bought off insurance companies to support Obamacare. No surprise, when government takes over health care, prices go up.

And so here we are, 100% increase in prices. And basically, you have Democrats and Republicans. And Republicans are going to expose to putting free market reforms. Eventually, they're going to do this. But Democrats caused the shutdown.

But can I also say, in an interview with Leader with leader Jeffries. Can we stop with the pro-collection about the mean tweets and some rare tweets that this week it came to light that a Democrat candidate for Attorney General of the state of Virginia called for the assassination of a political opponent, called for the assassination of that political opponent's family, and there's not one National Democrat calling for him to step aside. Not one.

It's disgraceful.

Nero, let me let you respond to that because that is going to be a big story, I think, in the coming days. I mean, I absolutely think people should criticize that 100%. It's I think it was a private conversation he had, but still awful and disgusting. I wasn't calling for a public, but terrible. And it should be condemned. It should be condemned. But then we should condemn that.

But then you should condemn when the president calls the Democratic Party the party of Satan. Yeah, in all fairness. Why don't we just say both of those things are wrong?

I think I've paid the price for saying for political violence on our side.

But yeah, I agree with that. But let's just then like criticize other Republicans more than the president.

I think I clearly have.

For not saying Satan.

But the fact that not one Democrat has stood out when he called for political assassination

this moment of political violence is crazy. Andrea, talk about this backdrop, this is the backdrop against which they're trying to reopen the government.

Well, first of all, they're not talking. And I've never seen a shutdown in, you know, how many decades have we seen shutdowns where they don't even talk? And that is not acceptable. But I don't think the Democrats are going to cave on this because their view is the president is already violating previous precedent in the Supreme Court by taking appropriated money and moving it around and

firing people and shutting down departments so the the threat to fire which I thought would be the real nuclear weapon on the part of the Administration isn't working because yeah Democratic workers are saying we're being fired. I am ten seconds left

This is all about Donald Trump when Donald Trump decides that he doesn't want to deal with the shutdown anymore, he runs the Republican Senate and House right now. If he says, guys, make a deal, they will make a deal. We'll just see how long it will take to get there.

Mike Johnson should worry about it.

We will indeed. Guys, great conversation. Thank you. Thank you.

That is all for watching. We will be back next week, because if it's Sunday, it's Meet the Press.