Nara Smith: Stop Calling Me a Tradwife

What is up, daddy gang?It is your founding father, Alex Cooper, with Call Her Daddy.Nara Smith, welcome to Call Her Daddy.I'm so excited.I'm so excited to talk with you today.You are one of the most talked about people on the internet.

Whether you are making potentially Skittles from scratch.We're getting there.We're getting there.You're in full couture in the kitchen.You really are at the center of so many conversations when it comes to womanhood, motherhood, family.And so I just, I can't wait to get into all of it with you today.

Let's do it.Nora, recently you shared.Yeah.online that your daughter whimsy was diagnosed with cancer.Yeah.And first, I just want to say like, I am so sorry for what you and your daughter and your family are going through.

I truly cannot imagine.So just like, all the condolences sent your way.Something that I really was struck by is that when you shared it online, you kind of talked about how you were hoping that sharing would allow other families to maybe feel less alone and be able to feel like there are other people going through what you're going through.And I thought that was really beautiful.And I hope that maybe our conversation today can give a little bit of that to anyone watching, too.

Yeah, I hope that, too.I think there's something so beautiful and grounding and supportive about having a community.And you feel like when something bad happens in your life, that it's usually a very isolating experience to where you feel like no one else would get it or no one really understands or all these different things.But the more time I spend in the hospital and kind of seeking that community myself, the more I realized that there's actually a lot more parents going through the exact same thing, maybe in different ways, but essentially the same thing as me and I think also by sharing it, it opened up that whole world to me to where my DMs were flooded with parents going through the same thing and being reallyconsolidated almost by what I posted.

So I can't even imagine.And I think that's going to be a huge topic today is like so much of your life is online, obviously.And we'll get to that because you didn't you you chose to share it at a very specific time, obviously.But let's go back to the beginning.OK, because I was thinking about it this morning and I'm like, what were you thinking?I was like, I feel like everyone remembers the first Nara Smith video they saw.

Okay, what was your one that you watched?Mine was like, you were in your old kitchen.

Oh yeah, the Dallas one.

You did the classic like, my husband said he was hungry for, and then I literally just looked and I was like, oh my God.But I feel like everyone has that core memory of like, I know, I remember when she first popped on the scene for me.But to anyone who maybe lives under a rock that is watching this, can you explain what people can expect in one of your videos?

I think it's all, it's, it was born out of this very, it was very coincidental.Like we, okay, so let me go back.I had my second son, my first son, my second baby.And I was feeling really crappy and I didn't know what was going on.So I got diagnosed with an autoimmune disease and my eczema started flaring up really bad to the point where I genuinely felt crippled by it because I couldn't really go out.I couldn't use my hands.

I couldn't brush my hair.It was this, the bob also came from that because I was like, I can't do my curls anymore because of all these health issues.So then I also Not being from America, I didn't quite know what it meant eating processed food here because a lot of ingredients in our food are not good for us.So then I kind of did so much research to the point where I was like, okay, well, I guess I'll just have to make everything from scratch because that feels the safest to me.So I started doing that.then got on TikTok and started sharing that.

That's when the whole situation kind of happened.And then during COVID, I couldn't really wear any of my fun outfits anywhere.So I decided to wear them in the kitchen, my daughters loved it.And it was just this thing that kind of happened.And then the voice, I think there's like components to my content.It's the cooking from scratch.

And then there's the fashion.And then there's the voice.And all of these pieces were born individually.Like the voice came from me having put my baby down and I was like, I've just spent so much time putting you down.There's no way I'm gonna jeopardize waking you up.But we got moms gotta work.

But I gotta get this video up.I take no days off.So we just got to make it happen.So I spoke really softly and quietly and I didn't wake my kid up.And then I posted it and then that's how the voice kind of came about.So everything was born out of this like really innocent place.

It's really crazy to know because I feel like everyone knows that voice and even people have recreated it.Obviously, like now people do their Nara Smith voice and it's wild to be like, you were just like quickly like, oh, I got to get this up and I'm just going to whisper.But then after that, you're like, OK, people clearly like it.Now I'm going to give it to them.Yeah.

Because sometimes you don't always do the voice.Right.When I do my voiceovers, usually I do the voice, and then when I do talking directly to camera, it's usually my normal voice.

And then people always say, you're yelling at us.I'm like, I'm so sorry.You're like, I'm just talking normal, but you're used to me whispering.OK, what post do you remember first going viral?

It was this one post.where we had a bunch of peaches at home and my kids actually wanted bread and jam, right?Like my kids love bread and jam.So I was like, okay, great.Let me just make bread for the first time on camera.Why not?

So I did and that was the first video that kind of popped off because I was like,my kids stumbled into my room asking me for bread and jam.And they actually did.Did it take hours to make?Yeah.Did they still enjoy it and ask for it?

Yes.So that was the first video.And then after that, I didn't really tap into it for a while.I kind of just sprinkled it in because I didn't quite realize that people would want that.And then I kind of just continued doing it.

So it started a little bit as like a this just so happened and you're like kind of obviously recognizing, okay, people like a little bit of this, a little bit of this, but like you now have gone on to create and curate such specific branded world.When do you think this clear vision kind of came to fruition for you where you were like, this is a business for me and I actually can execute this on a level that's not just like a fun happen chance thing?

I think It kind of took a minute.I was everything kind of went insanely viral when I was pregnant with my third baby whimsy.And I didn't really see it as a business.I was like, Oh, great.I'm earning like I'm earning money all of a sudden, I can do this, but I never thought about it as anything bigger.But then obviously, the more I did it, and the more deals came in and the more conversations I kind of had with my agents at the time, the more I kind of realized, oh, I could actually do this as a job and have the flexibility of being at home with my kids and kind of figuring that part out.

And then obviously now it's evolved into this full scale business that I'm still executing myself, which is crazy.Like I film, I pick the outfits, I pick the recipe, I film it myself on a tripod, I edit it myself.And then when the kids go to sleep, I do the voiceover, get it up the next day.So it's, basically a one -man show, women's show.And yeah, it's been really eye -opening to now be able to basically do whatever I feel like.It's really cool.

Obviously, because, again, it's starting as this fun side thing.Do you remember the moment where you sat down with your husband and you were like, I think I really wanna lean in and fully put time and effort into this in a business capacity, not just like a, oh, I actually have some time on Sunday, let's do this.Do you remember when you had that type of conversation together?

Yeah, we had that conversation in my first kitchen that you probably remember, but I think it was more so him.He was like, you know you can just do this.And I'm like, yeah, I guess.And he's like, no, you actually can.And that's, I think, those conversations kind of happened, but I think they kind of happened naturally, because I'm a very ambitious and driven and hardworking woman, to where there was no option but to film and get the video up.So it wasn't even a conversation where I was asking for permission or asking for anything, really.

I was just like, well, gotta watch the kids, hun, because I gotta film.And that happened more and more and he's like well can you maybe come up with a better schedule because this seems a little hectic i'm like yeah okay but i think it just kind of organically happened but there was no other option in my mind because if i do something i do it so i love that so much i love that you're like lucky sorry but like get on board yeah call her daddy is brought to you by pandora jewelry Daddy gang.

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Have fun.Love you guys.Can we talk about making something from scratch is one thing.Miss Nara Smith.

What are you going to tell me?

But then you look at things that you've made from scratch.Okay.And we've got, we've got cough drops.We've got cereal.We've got chewing gum.I love a good homemade gum.

No, no.The chewing gum.I was like, I can't believe this woman.No, I was like, there's no way.And I think that's how some people feel.They're like, is she actually being serious?

Is this real?Does she actually make it homemade?I guess my question is like, how intentional are you about selecting recipes that you know people will have the reaction I just had?Where you're like, no way.

I think it really depends.It sometimes gets borne out of me seeing something at the grocery store and being like,can I make this at home?Sometimes it's Lucky telling me, oh, I really want you to make me Takis.Like, do you think you can do that?Because he's obsessed with Takis.

So I'm like, I'll make it for you.Or I think about these random things and challenge myself.So it kind of is.And sometimes I'm like, I think this would be really fun.So it really is this, like, it's a mix of different things.OK, that's fair.

Yeah.Your fashion choices have evolved.They have.I feel like when I was looking back at your earlier videos, it was like a cute.It was very cute.Like dress.

Yeah.Sometimes a little apron on.More realistic, I guess you could say.Now, obviously, We're hitting full couture in the kitchen, baby.The gloves, the one with the gloves, the scap gloves, the ones with the nails.I was terrified of ruining them.

I'm like, I'm so sorry, Daniel.Just making some rice pudding.It is crazy, though, to see that evolution.Can you talk to me, though, about those beginning days of, yes, I know you said, like, I wasn't getting to wear any of my cute outfits out of COVID.You know, you're in your kitchen.But like, Did you also have any understanding of the way that you were presenting and what you wanted to present as as a woman in these videos that you were making?

Yeah, I think that one's a tricky question because at the time when everything kind of started for me, I was pregnant.So I'm the type of person, I will never buy maternity clothes.I refuse.I'm not going to do that.But that was just me. I didn't want to do that ever.So and I was a very like jeans and like t -shirt type girl obviously I loved my fashion but I was also street style girl when I lived in Europe before so I told Lucky when we dated I was like I'm never gonna wear a dress like good luck and then when I was pregnant with my third I was like well can't really wear my pants I guess dresses and then

those were the dresses that I would naturally gravitate towards, like the very cute, I felt very feminine during that pregnancy.So that's kind of what I naturally gravitated towards.And that kind of expressed itself in the cute collars and the very feminine looking dresses that I guess people connected with different things.But that wasn't like intentional.It was more so I was pregnant, I needed to wear a dress and I felt very like whimsical and feminine during that so that's kind of what my fashion choices reflected and I didn't fit a lot of like couture dresses because I had a bump.You had a bump.

That's where and I'm sure you can kind of Yeah, let's get into it.

You can probably feel where I'm going with this, girl, because I'm like, there was an image that started to be created.And while people loved your content, I think a larger conversation really started to bud from Nara Smith and who she was and what she was standing for and what she was representing for women.What do you remember just about the early commentary around you and your brand and your videos?

I at that point, I was very much online.So I would read the comments, I'd be like, well, this is weird, because I don't feel like that.And my reality is so different to what people are assuming based off of the one and a half minute videos they see.So I was very confused where that conversation came from.But then the more I like read about it, I'm like, you know what?Yeah, but I'm also correcting the narrative, but you're not listening.

So yeah, Yeah, so let's call it what it is.So people started to compare you to tradwife.Yeah.And people were like...

They kind of used me as the poster child for the tradwife movement, which was very bizarre to me.

Why was that bizarre to you?

It was bizarre to me for a multitude of reasons.But let's, you know what, let's Google what the definition of a tradwife is.Well, that's perfect.

I'm actually going to ask you, what do you consider a tradwife?

Well, I haveto look up the term because I wasn't familiar with that, right?I didn't quite know what it means.But the fast answer is a trad wife is a woman who embraces or promotes a traditional model of marriage and family life where she typically prioritizes being a homemaker and a primary caregiver for kids, takes primary responsibility for cooking, cleaning, and managing the household, supports her husband's role as the primary breadwinner, often values traditional gender roles within marriage.So with that definition and those points, I'm none of that.And we can go through it point by point.

I don't prioritize being a homemaker.I'm a working mom.Like I am out in L .A.I travel a lot.I sure do.

I love cooking because it's my passion and because I kind of have to do it given my autoimmune.Absolutely.But that's a passion of mine.It's a hobby.It's not something that I need to be doing for what?right right keep going i like this you know this is good primary caregiver for my kids no my husband and i split it 50 50 like when he works i watch them when i work he watches them and now given everything that's been going on we also have help my mom's out we have someone that helps us with the kids because it's just not doable for me to do it all so That doesn't really work, right?

Takes primary responsibility for cooking, cleaning, and managing the household.Yeah, I like to cook.Okay, sue me. I like to cook.My husband burns everything apart from a good steak, so he'll do that.But I like cooking, so I'm doing it.Household and cleaning, he does the dishes.

I don't touch the dishes.There's no way you're gonna see me washing and scrubbing the dishes.Also, he cleans our house because he grew up he grew his mom was like very very specific with cleaning to where they had like Saturday crew and like he has sisters so like someone was in charge of the baseboard someone was in charge ofthe toilet, someone was in charge of this.So he's very specific with how things need to be cleaned, so he does it.So that doesn't make any sense.

Supports the husband's role as the primary breadwinner.No, we both work.That doesn't make any sense.I provide for our family.

So really, I think what's happening is they're taking the image of a woman in a kitchen, gorgeous dress and they are assuming that this is your life and we are going back in time and this is like a very traditional, in the traditional sense.

I think there's also a bigger conversation to be had because everything that I've been reading online I find it very concerning almost that we need to put women in very specific, very narrow boxes in order to make sense of them.I don't think, so why can't we do it all?Why can't we be a working mom that enjoys cooking, that enjoys being at home and taking care of our kids, but also is on the next plane out to LA to take business meetings with big executives?Why can't that coexist?And I think that's something that's very concerning to me that A woman can't exist under any terms but the little boxes we put them in.And, you know, media literacy is another issue, but it's like, I do think that you are creating a brand, right?

And so you're seeing consistently that something is working.I guess when I think about that, though, some people could argue, OK, well, the way that you're presenting, we're only really seeing for a while one version of you, which is a lot of the videos you started with is saying, like, my husband is craving this, so I'm going to make him this.And so it leaves a lot of room for assumptions, right?Well, she looks like she's wearing the dress.She looks this way.She's making this for her husband.

And so some people could argue, well, for a while, we didn't see the business side of it.you.We didn't know any of this.So we were assuming that you're just like stuck in the kitchen making these things.But obviously now as you've opened up more, like we're getting to know a little bit more about you.So did you at all see why people could think that way in the beginning?

Yeah, 100%.

How did you deal with that though?

crying to my husband and be like, what is happening?Did they not know that I worked as a model?I've been working since I've been 14, like all these things.But I think I am very fair and compassionate.Like I understand where that can come from.But then the more that narrative started swelling, I was like, well, let me say something.

So I remember posting this video.of this like morning routine in my voiceover was me being a working mom and traveling and kind of debunking all of that but then a lot of the comments were still that narrative and I realized that a lot of the people that are very, very stuck in this narrative do not wanna be corrected.They don't wanna hear that.No, there was this one situation with someone on my team where we were trying to work with this person and the person was like, I don't care what you say, what you do, what you show me, what Forbes articles you show me of her business, she is a trad wife to me and I don't wanna work with her.So that kind of opened my eyes as well to the opposite end of, I think I could sit here all day and try to debunk this narrative when some people, not everyone, but some people just don't want to be corrected.

No, they don't.And I also think there is a frustration around people want something to just be at face value what it is.And some people are really lazy and don't have any interest in getting underneath something.And you can even go all the way back to the beginning days for Call Her Daddy for me, like the girl that only talks about sex, like, well, of course, there's more to me.And I, of course, saw like there was something in the market that there was no one talking about it in the way that it would like.There's so much more.

But I think when it's easier to pigeonhole a woman and keep her in that lane, I also think it's very threatening, to be honest, to think of you as more than just a very gorgeous woman who is making these concoctions that are so extravagant.You're also a businesswoman.And you're fully aware of what you're doing.And you're editing it.You're putting it together.then you're the whole package, and we don't like that as a woman.

Because then you're a threat.And so that's so interesting that that woman was like, I don't want to hear it.It was actually a guy.But the women aren't different.

I've stumbled across a fair amount of women that are exactly like that.So I think it's not very gender specific.I think there's just a bigger issue as a society that we have.

Can you talk to me about in a cute way, obviously, like I referenced, there's a lot of videos that you were like, my husband is craving this.I'm going to make it.Yeah.What do you think early days, because I do think we've gotten to know you and Lockie a little bit more.And that just happens sometimes with time.And yes, unfortunately, you likely having to share a little bit more, but like early days, what were some misconceptions you felt about you and your husband and those dynamics?

And how did that impact you behind the camera with the two of you?

I don't really know exactly what those misconceptions are, because I kind of took a step back from the Internet.But I think one of them is obviously the trad wife narrative that there's like very specific gender roles.Like, do I like my husband filling up my gas tank?Absolutely.Do I like all these things that, like, I don't want to be doing?Yeah.

I don't want to close my own suitcase.Do it for me.But I think that there was all this, like, misconception around, like, him being this very specific dominant male person when behind the scenes, it's not like that.So we were always, like, we've always been very, like, equal and, like, understanding of each other and, like, there was always a conversation that we had, so I never felt, like, whatever it was,saw was what was going on.

Interesting.OK, so something I took from your book that was interesting.Also, congratulations.Thank you.It's beautiful, homemade.We're going to talk more about it.

Yeah.But something you said is a lot of what I do is tongue in cheek.I push buttons.I follow instincts.Can we talk about leaning in?Because I'm I think there's a version of like, you know it's working, and even if it's pissing people off, you're still gonna put on the dress, and it's gonna look like it's gonna look, and how do you balance that?

Because I think that there are some people that can say, okay, you clearly are aware that People are assuming this looks a little trad wifey, right?And so some people can say, well, she's leaning in and she's, it's brilliant.She's making money off of it, but she knows who she is clearly.And then other people could say it is regressive.Like how are you towing that line?

I think I've also evolved in my personal style.Like obviously during my pregnancy, it was very feminine and kind of leaning towards that aesthetic, but now not being pregnant, I fit all my sample size clothes.So let me just, go do that.And now it's like, now I don't necessarily see where the that trad wife angle is coming from, because I don't think a trad wife would be cooking and like Schiaparelli, you know, or a Moschino look straight off the runway.Like, I don't think that's what a trad wife would do.So now I understand even less.

So that's like a little tricky.But I feel like, you know, let them think what they're going to think.

Because also, it is interesting.I feel like I've had a lot of fascinating conversations with women in this room where it's like we are all aware of the society we are still living in.and the double standards for women and I think it really paints the picture of like hearing about that reporter The Nara Smith who came on the scene, and there were a lot of misconceptions, you are never gonna change specific people's opinions.They will always remember you as just that girl.I am still labeled sometimes like the girl that talked about glow jobs or whatever.And I'm like, oh man, that was a decade ago.

Wow, it's crazy.And I've interviewed all these different people.I'm very detached from what the public perception is.So sometimes I don't even really recognize it.But I think what's interesting is there's also the debate about being a woman and finding that perfect balance of like recognizing, well, why don't I just lean in?Because if this is the society we live in and this is what's happening, but not losing yourself in it.

So like, I think that's where there's a lot of nuance to it, I guess is what I'm saying.And so the voice and the dresses, it's smart.You're monetizing off of this thing.And I get, people who don't understand the nuance can just be enraged in the capacity that is lightly pushing on the boundary of like, it's a gray area.It's a little like the gray area, Nara.

But I feel like I don't mind being in the gray area.Like it's, I've kind of detached myself from what the public perception is because I know I'm not that.And I feel like, here's the thing, I tried so hard to correct the narrative, right?People didn't wanna listen.I'm still kind of I'm like, this is not what I am.So I want to make it very clear.

And I think if people don't want to understand that they don't want to understand that.And that's just all right to me.But I do.I do want to push people's mental boundaries to be like, oh, a women can exist in alldifferent spaces.And I feel like I'm trying to do that.

And another reason why we're talking about this is because I think people should really try to listen.Because it's not just me, I think that women in general in all different areas of their lives get put into these categories.And I want to have that bigger conversation of let's not do that as a society.Let's let women exist in the spaces that they want to exist and not pigeonhole them into one specific thing.Because Women are multifaceted like we do it all in whatever capacity that is whether that's in the working field or at home or wherever that may be and I think let's have a bigger conversation and not zero in on what I do because It's not accurate.

It's such a good point.And I appreciate you clarifying that because I agree like it's not your job to clarify it.But it is frustrating when I think you see a woman in media who is such a good example of the double standard of like, why are we painting you in this one capacity?Yeah, we're pretending like she's just slaving over her husband in the kitchen.And it's like, that's just not what it is.

Yeah, I don't know.I don't know what to tell you.But let's have a bigger conversation here and see what really is the issue, because I'm not the issue.something that is happening for you is the issue.So let's chat about it.

It's very threatening.It's very threatening.Let's chat.Daddy Gang, today's episode is brought to you by Sour Patch Kids.Anyone who works at Unwell could tell you we keep them literally everywhere in the office.You're in edit bay, Sour Patch Kids.

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What do you think would surprise people about how you and Lucky compliment each other as parents?

Maybe how involved he is. I think there's this, I don't know what it is, but there's this standard where people are like, he's holding the baby?He's watching the baby?What do you mean?he's watching his baby, he's a dad, of course.So I think there's this weird societal thing that's happening where it's like, who's watching the baby?What do you mean he has two?

He has a dad.And I think what's hard is people, again, really struggle.You post so much online.And so if you're the primary one that's posting, they somehow believe that he's not a part of certain things and he's like, no guys, there's like a complete other life outside of social media that people choose to not post.

I'm very selective with what I post and how I post and how much I share of my life because I used to be a lot more open, but then The more traction my social media got, the more people came to my page, the more people like kind of pieced things together that were so inaccurate to what was going on to where I kind of felt like I had to take a step back and really evaluate what I show and how much I show.Can you give an example that kind of forced you to be a little less open?There was this incident of me posting my kids.and then there was this TikTok video where someone, I don't even know how they got it, but they got like a story that I posted on Instagram about my daughter like a year and a half prior to me even having TikTok.So I'm like, where did this video come from?It was an Instagram story, not even in feed post.

And it had millions of views and it was just her sitting on the couch and she's so cute.But the comments, it had like 200 ,000 likes.It had like 8 ,000 comments or like so many.And so many of the comments were like, I can't wait for her to be older or her eyes are so pretty or look at those lips.And then I'd go on the profiles and it was like old men to where I realized I'm actually doing my kids a disservice by putting exposing them and making them vulnerable on the internet to where I'm like, okay, kids are off limits.So when I do work shoots with the kids, like there was this skims photo shoot that we did a holiday shoot we did last year, where I told the team, I'm like, I would love to do a family photo shoot.

But these are my boundaries.And a lot of people I work with are very understanding.Skims was so understanding about it.So accommodating.But there's just there's dangers on the Internet that I need to protect my kids from.So that was one of those experiences or just like little like books they'd see in the back or like the whole religious thing.

I'm like, no, but OK, I get why you're saying that.So let me take a step back because you're actually misunderstanding things I put out.So I kind of put myself in this little bubble to where I I just want to keep things that are very personal to me, personal to me.

Yeah, like I think there's been obviously such an uptick in the conversation around posting children online.And it's a really controversial one just because of the amount of evidence we're seeing of how destructive and exploitive it can be.And seeing how many disgusting people are online and are consuming the content in a way that you wish that's zero.world that we lived in.But unfortunately, that is the reality.And so to some degree, it is the parent's job to protect the children.

How have you and Lucky, like, what is the boundary of, like, when to share, when to not share?

Yeah, I think we kind of take it situation by situation, because if Vogue came knocking on my door, and they were like, we want you and the kids on the cover, I'd be like, well, if my kid grows up, and I say no to that, would they feel like they missed out on like, I don't know, they're like, we definitely talk about it situation by situation.But when it comes to social media and social media content, no kids faces, I don't want them being recognized.I don't want anything.So I just they're a part of my life, so obviously they can be a part of my content, but then it's just them running around or whatever to not see their face.So I feel like I'm still navigating kind of how to, what to show and what not to show because I care about my community and I love that we're all in this together and that people like show up and support and like, I've really built a close relationship with my community to where I feel like I really want you guys to see as much of my life as you can, but then also I know that I have to set boundaries, because if I don't, then what are you going to do?

Yeah.It's also so hard.It's so interesting you're saying this, because I was talking to someone recently about it, and the conversation around sharing your children online.I'm like, it's so crazy to me, though, that the people who don't, you see a lot of women get like, oh, she must be a bad mother.Like, we never see her with her kid.Oh, right, that conversation.

And I'm like, I'm already ready for that for me.Because I'm like, oh my god, people are going to be like, she's never with her kid.And I'm like, no, no, no.I don't post my kid.There's a very different, but again, if it's like they don't see it, then they don't believe it.

That's kind of been an ongoing thing.It's like, oh, where are your kids?What are you doing?Like Lucky never, he's never with his kids.I'm like, if I were to turn this camera around, you would see four screaming kids and Lucky trying to wrangle them all, but I'm sparing you and all you see is me in my pretty dress making Skittles.

Because we're just keeping it for the brand.We're uploading the video that you want to see.Enjoy.Talking about motherhood and family, what is something from your own childhood that you are intentionally wanting to replicate?

I think the curiosity.I feel like growing up I was always very encouraged to be curious and ask about things and understand how things work.be knowledgeable about things.My dad was very German growing up.He would play this game with us where he'd get a globe, it would light up like a world globe, and he would spin the globe, and then he'd like stop it, and then he'd like point to this.He's like, what is this country?

What's the capital?How many people live there?And we do, that was like, he would not chase us around the yard.He would do that with us.Or he would get me this like really thick, I remember it was like thick purple velvet, just book about Greek mythology.And he would like quiz me on it or like a book about Marie Antoinette.

And I was like, what, six or seven.So I think just that knowledge and that curiosity, it's made me very aware of things.And like, I've always had this like deep feeling of just, but why?Why are we doing this?Why are you saying these things to me?Like, what's the bigger message?

And I want my kids to like really have that understanding of the world and really dig deep when it comes to things.I don't want them to be followers.I want them to be leaders, strong leaders.

Have you noticed at all, because I know they're young, but have you noticed any of them having that same curiosity that you have?

Oh, Rumble, my five -year -old, she's exactly that.me. I'm like, tone it down a little bit.Wait, you're like, hold on.Yeah, it's really funny seeing their personalities slowly emerge.Rumble is like me.Slim is like Lucky, very quiet and reserved, but so smart and so brilliant.

Whimsy, she's like our little fiery one.She's a third.She's the third.I'm the third.

Sounds like me.

So you get it.You're just constantly pushing buttons.Pushing buttons, but she also like, no one's going to tell her crap.And she's also very aware of situations to where like, if she doesn't like someone, there's a reason.So I'm never like, Be nice.

No, you don't question her.No, I don't.I know what you know, because she's very observant.

And then Fonny is just nine months.

She's along for the ride to figure that out.Yeah, we're gonna figure out.

I'll see you later and you'll give me the update.

Yes.Is there anything that you're doing differently that you're like, oh, I want to change that from my childhood patients.

I think my my parents weren't very patient.So I think just being patient and trying to really get on their level.

which from what I understand is a huge thing for parenthood that you're like, I'm struggling.Patience.Patience.Before you're like, don't freak out, just give yourself some patience.Take a deep breath.

That word, I need to paint that everywhere in my home.No, truly.I think that's something that has been really hard for me because I'm very like, let's just do it.Let's just like, why aren't you putting on your shoes?Let's go.And I just really had to take a deep breath and I'm like, They're tiny humans.

That's what I remind myself of.They're like tiny humans that haven't done a lot before and you just need to realize that like putting yourself in the state of mind they're in, like of course they're asking me why they have to go to bed because they don't know what time it is or what's going on.

Sure.Of course.Patience.You know, patience.What did love look like in your house to you of like your parents?

What is that face?You know, um, my parents have a really complicated Relationship, they've always been so loving and they they were the best.Well, they are were they are the best parents ever?They've taught me so much and have really grown a lot also.And now as an adult, I see them totally different.I think being married now and having kids, where I might have been hurt as a teenager being like, why are you guys fighting?

Or why are you doing this?Or now I have a lot of compassion for each of them individually and together to where I understand the choices that they've made.I understand why they did certain things.So I think my relationship with them has really changed and evolved over all these years.But Yeah, they didn't have the best marriage.And they didn't have the best dynamic at home.

So a lot of a lot of things that I'm unlearning now stemmed from that.But I love them so much.And I have a great relationship with both of them.Did they stay together?

Or did they they're still together, but it was very tumultuous.So, you know, no, but I think that's interesting of like, When a lot of people grew up in a tumultuous situation with watching their parents, but then there was a divorce or a separation, that also can teach you to really stick things through, but at what point should you not, right?And so I'm sure there's things that you're trying to figure out of how do you handle conflict when you and Lucky are fighting?If you watch something very particular and specific repeated in your household, there's like some unlearning that has to go on.

Yeah, and the older I get, the more I realize that.My parents are great parents, but when it comes to their marriage, they were not the best example for marriage whatsoever.So I think then getting married at a really young age, we got married when I was eight,and had our first baby when I was 19.I never had a good example of how to navigate conflict, how to navigate a disagreement, how to navigate speaking my mind without feeling like I cannot, like all these things that were internal to me, not so much about my partner, right?It was never that much about my partner.

It was more about me and the things that I've learned.And we've gone to couples therapy.I think that's a great tool.I think doing therapy yourself and like really just looking, I feel like being married is like a mirror.Like you're all of a sudden in this space where you're confronted by all the things that you may or may not be doing wrong or things that you've learned that might not be the best for you.And then all of a sudden you have to work on that because elsewise your relationship will not be the way that you'd want it to be.

And like thinking about that, Nara, I completely agree.And then adding on the level of having children in the midst of also trying to be, you're young, you're taking care of yourself, you're fostering your relationship with your husband.And then I know you've got four kids in five years.Yeah, my oldest is five.In five years.Last year you did post about struggling with postpartum anxiety.

And can you just describe what those first few weeks after having your daughter and giving birth, what were those like?

each pregnancy was so different.My first pregnancy and my first experience postpartum was like, what the heck is happening?Because I feel like we always talk about conceiving and then being pregnant and then birth, but what happens after?And I think being young and maybe me, I was very impulsive.I'm like, whatever, yeah, I'll have a baby.So I never really sat, I never did a birthing class.

I've never read like a book to the end.Sure, did I start, you know, that was like,books that you always get the like baby whatever yeah yeah I got a few pages in and then I'm like whatever so I I clearly didn't really know a lot But then when I had my first baby, even giving birth, I'm like, oh, the baby's out.Great.And then they're like, OK, you need to keep pushing.Get the placenta.

I'm like, what placenta?What are you talking about?I had no idea.And then postpartum you all of a sudden.Well, I gave birth in like my midwife's office, which was had a bedroom.So it was like a birthing center, but not really.

I don't know.It was a room with whatever.So I got sent home with this baby right after giving birth.And I'm like, I don't know what to do.I have no idea.But.

I'm just going to follow my gut.I've always been the type of person to like, I know in my gut what's right and I know I'll know what to do.And then I had my mom -in -law there as well to help because it was during COVID.So my parents couldn't come.But that first experience was really rough.But I think I also just like kept it pushing.

But then my fourth experience and then each experience was rough in whatever way.But my fourth experience was she was a surprise baby.So we were done after our third and then I found out I was pregnant with her and I was freaking out.I remember everyone I called, my agent, didn't tell my parents for the longest time.I didn't really wanna tell my agent, but then I'm like, I don't fit anything, I need to tell her.I was at the Scott Borelli show wearing this dress and I just remember I flew into Paris that same morning and I was just throwing up on the way there.

I'm like, I actually need to tell people.So I was terrified because I just, I don't know what that feeling was, but I just knew I was at a point in my career and in my home life where I felt very settled and I knew what the pregnancy would do to my body and my mental and like all these things and my stamina.

It's almost like sneaking it into existence would make it more overwhelming.Yes.

So I didn't want to tell anyone, took the longest time to tell people.I truly, like, really just didn't think about it at all until it hit me right before she was born.I'm like, oh, I'm actually having a baby.And then, like, all the emotions kind of came in.And then I went into labor on my birthday, actually.Right after midnight, she was born.

It was a great labor, whatever.I gave birth.I was sitting there.Lucky helped.And we were sitting there and then the next morning I woke up and that was one of the scariest experiences postpartum for me because it genuinely felt like everything was a dream.I told Lucky, I was like, it feels like I'm gonna wake up tomorrow and I would have never been pregnant.

I don't have a baby.This doesn't feel real.What is happening?I was terrified.I told him, I don't feel like I'm here.Am I here?

I looked at him one night and I'm like, Did I die?And he got so concerned.He called his sister and his mom and he's like, is this normal?Like what's going on?And then I didn't tell my midwife because there was like this whole I just have sometimes I have a hard time conveying like hard emotions to people because I want to be seen as this very like collected strong woman to where I don't want people to think I'm unwell.No pun intended.

And it was really hard and I had really bad postpartum anxiety for like two weeks.I remember I didn't tell anyone I gave birth online.It took me like a hot minute to like let people know because it felt like it didn't happen.Every morning I'd wake up looking at this baby being like, who are you?And I'd never had that experience before.And that was really, really hard.

And then the postpartum anxiety kicked in to where I was like, well, I don't know what to do.Like, I don't know.Through it all, I still had to work.Three weeks after she was born, I was shooting cookbook images.in where was it the Catskills or somewhere like somewhere like an hour and a half I don't know where it was but we were shooting at this house and she was three weeks old and I just had to keep it pushing so it was almost this like I was so disconnected from myself and your body and my body reality like everything it felt like I was living this like warped reality and it took me a hot minute to find myself back in my body and like understandably yeah and then the minute I did I was like oh we've got a rhythm here you know like everything's okay we find out whimsy has cancer it was just And then on top of all of that, I was still posting my videos.I was still posting stories and being like, today my kids were, while internally I was like crumbling, truly crumbling.

And I was like zipping up my dresses being like, okay, let's just go do it.Let's just take the meeting.Oh, next flight out to here.Okay, I'm bringing the, oh, pumping.Okay, wait.

Like it felt like this like - You're just going in autopilot to just get through, get through, get through, get through.And you're like not processing any of it.

Deadlines for the book, like there was no messing around.There was no messing around.

I think that something that you're describing is probably one of the more realistic experiences that women have after birth.And I think that even saying that out loud, there's a lot of women that are like, is that is that true?And it's like, yes, like almost.I would say let's say I have 10 of my girlfriends that have children.Seven of them have had extreme postpartum anxiety, really intrusive thoughts.Like, I remember when I got pregnant and my friend came to me and basically was like, I just want to say something not to freak you out, but I want to say it before you give birth because I need you to remember this moment.

She basically was like, there is a chance, and I hope it doesn't happen to you, but there is a chance you are going to have some really crazydark thoughts.Yeah.Like, crazier than you could probably ever imagine.Yeah.Really intrusive thoughts.

It's okay.And it's actually way more normal, but no one talks about it because as a woman, like you just said, you didn't tell your midwife because you want to present as strong.And then there's the added level of like, you just gave birth.You should be so happy.You should present as this okay figure.Because also like the mother not being okay, like, oh my God, what's wrong with you?

Because now we don't have as much empathy anymore because you don't have the baby in the belly.Like you got to get your shit together.And so there's all these pressures to like bounce back and get back.And it's like, I can't imagine the internal struggle emotionally that you were going through and that you had to fight that battle somewhat on your own.Of course, you can share it with your husband, but it's on you in a capacity.Of course, you should share it, but it's overwhelming.

It's so overwhelming, and I think it doesn't get talked about enough, and there's not a safe enough space for women to really voice how they're feeling.And I think it is really important, though, postpartum to be open.I think that's what I learned through my last experience.I'm like, I really wish I would have told my midwife or gotten a therapist or someone to just help navigate because on a physical level, like your hormones plummet.That's just what it is.Like you go through like the largest plummet in your hormones that you can ever can possibly have in your life.

Right.So I think As women, I really encourage everyone that's having a hard postpartum experience to really seek help because I promise you're not going to get seen as weak or not capable or whatever more so.It will give you the tools to really have that community.And even with intrusive thoughts, like no one talks about it because it's scary because you don't want anyone to think that you would ever do anything to your baby or that you would harm yourself or that whatever it is.And no one really creates that safe space of it being okay, but it is okay.And you can also have people in your space that will understand and help you navigate it.

So many women who've gone through it would be like, I'm just telling you, they're like, yes, but to a normal person, maybe they're like, what's wrong with you?

You need help, but not in a way that's bad.More so in a way of like, let's support and give you the support a good foundation to feel your best, not because you're bad, but because you need a stable foundation.

And I also think like when you there is something in life where it's like if this is happening so regularly, That is, then, the norm.Yes.Like, that is normal to, it's not normal to live like that forever.No.But there is clearly scientifically proven that women, after all of these hormones drop, like, you're going to go through this, potentially.It needs to be talked about.

It needs to be talked about.I hope this makes women feel less alone.And also, we're hopefully, just through this conversation, chipping away a little bit at the stigma of postpartum, the anxiety, the intrusive thoughts, like, you are not alone.You are not crazy.That is where I think women coming together and talking about it makes other women finally feel like, oh my God, there's like a woman that's gonna watch this right now and be like, girls, I never needed that more than to hear that I'm not insane for having these thoughts.

No, you've just gone through the most life altering experience ever that you will ever go through.Give yourself grace and also recognize that you literally, grown a human being every single bit of this human being you've grown from nails to hair follicles to organs to brain to skull everything and then you've given birth to this human being and then what you're just supposed to resume business as usual no that's like physically not how it works and mentally not how it works and i think we talk about the physical maybe even more than themental like I feel like postpartum in general is not talked about enough but if we do talk about it it's like oh you're gonna have this or you're gonna not be able to do this or like let's figure out the nursing or whatever it may be but no one necessarily talks about all the things that could happen mentally after it's so true.

I was thinking about that because it is such an adjustment from your your mind and your body and they're both going through such different things.Yeah, a large conversation around postpartum bodies.I mean, that's a constant conversation, but I feel like you kind of got put into the mix after you gave birth to Fani.I did.Some people online really celebrated how quickly you appeared to recover.And they were talking about, I think it was like a mirror selfie or whatever it was, or a picture of you.

And then while others talked about the pressure that this puts on women to bounce back after having a baby, how did you feel about being a part of that conversation?And how have you navigated that?

Postpartum looks so different for everybody.Bodies are different for everybody.Some people bounce back really quick, some people don't.Some people get stretch marks, some people don't.I think that we as women should uplift every single woman postpartum.And I think, yes, did I post a picture that maybe evoked emotion in other women or other people in general?

Yes, but what people don't realize is that To me, that picture wasn't me at my best in my normal.I was crying that same morning.I was wearing a diaper in that picture.I was wearing linen pants because I didn't fit a single one of my denim pants that I had.I was way above my usual weight.Like I didn't feel like myself.

And I posted that picture being like, I don't feel like myself.but my body is magical because look what it just did.And I'm really proud of that.And that was my postpartum experience.But I think in general, we should celebrate everyone for where they're at postpartum.

I completely agree.I think that there's such a pressure when it comes to even just the concept of bounce back culture, again, focusing more on how we do it mentally, girlies.The body is the most incredible thing.Women and the fact that we are able to do what we're able to do in these moments is insane.And so just to be alive after that experience is like, yes, I'm happy.And so I think, understandably, people are going to have insecurities that come with, again, extreme changes.

But to put another woman down for how something she can't control.And also, you shouldn't feel like you have to hide.

Also, my experience wasn't, I think it's one thing what the public sees, but then it's also so different to how I feel.I think that being a mother looks so different for every single person.And I think we should really celebrate everyone for where they're at and the safety that it takes to share whatever they want to share.Like, I think that we should really Just make it a safe space for women in general, regardless of what your postpartum looks like, whether you bounce back or you don't.Because to me, someone bouncing back might look a certain way, right?I'm like, because I compare myself to sometimes I'm like, oh, that mom really just did it.

She's thriving.She just did this.But being a mom myself and having gone through birth, I'm like what she shows me is probably her best or she wants to show parts of herself that she feels really good about or that she wants to share for what ever purpose that may be, I'm not going to compare myself to anyone.

I was going to say I think that actually leads us perfectly into this next conversation because it really is such an interestingof like, guys, we also just anything you see on social media, you don't have the full story, even freaking close.Like at this point, I am convinced we are maximum in moments getting 10 % of a lot of people's lives.And that is for some people generous.Like you said, as you are navigating postpartum, you find out that your daughter, Whimsy, has cancer.Yeah.

Can you explain just like how you decided for you and your family that it was the right time to even share this news publicly?It took a lot.

I told myself I'm not going to get emotional.Sorry.

I got tissues.You're good.

I think, I mean, it all boiled down to when we found out about everything and then all the behind the scenes and everything that was going on, Lucky and I did have those conversations.And my fear, I always had this like lingering fear.Well, what if someone takes a video of us in the hospital and they put it out?Or because when we were in the hospital, people would come up to us and say, hey, can I get a picture with you?Can like, can you say hi to my friend?And they probably didn't know that we were going through the hardest time of our lives.

So obviously I smiled and said, of course you can and took the picture.But I was always nervous that people would kind of piece it together or someone would talk or someone would whatever.And to me, her safety and privacy was the most important thing.So I would always go back and forth with Lucky and saying, should we just share it?Should we just talk about it?What if someone else does?

And he's like, but that doesn't matter.Like, what do you feel like in your heart?And I always came back to the fact that I don't want to share it.I don't want to like talk about it.I don't want her out there.I don't want any of that So then as time went on and as we went through all the treatments and had really hard days and slightly easier days I found a lot of community in the hospital talking to parents or the nurses or going on Reddit and like reading people's stories, like all of that.

And the more I kind of went through that, I realized that I find a lot of comfort in knowing that I'm not alone.So then when she, right after her birthday, she, she was in remission.We finished her last treatment.We rang the bell.It was very emotional.And I just realized, well, maybe if I use my platform to make even just one person feel less alone, I can do that.

And that's kind of why we shared it.

I can't even imagine, Nara, you being in that hospital and the anxiety of trying to protect your baby.Yeah.And also being this public person.And I'm sure there was just like, so many emotions around, like, oh, my God, I want to, like, turn this part of my life off right now because, like, this is all that matters.And I can't imagine the anxiety on top of already, like, the trauma that you and your family are having to endure.It was really hard.

When you found out this diagnosis, like, what do you remember about that day?

I just remember we were actually coming back from a big family photo shoot, the holiday one, and my mother -in -law, she talked to Lucky and she was like, I saw this thing, don't be alarmed, but like, maybe you should look at it and talk to Nara about it.So then Lucky came into the room, I was nursing Fani and he said, don't freak out, honey.not that I usually freak out but like he was like just just look at it and see how you feel should I take her to the doctor I was like like what happened did she get hurt or like what's going on and then he was like no I don't think so my mom just saw this so then he was like I was just like let's just be safe and take her to the ER then we took her to the ER the ER was like we don't really know what to make of this just Tell us if it gets worse.And I was like, okay, well, maybe it's just like a kid thing.I don't know.So then later that week, I took Fonny to the pediatrician for the first time.

So I rang him and I was like, this is what's going on with Whimsy.Do you think I can bring her to just have a look?So we walk in there and he does her first.So he looks at her and then I just remember him going quiet.He went quiet and like very calm and collected.And in that moment, like my heart just dropped.

And there was this weird gut feeling of being like, oh, she has cancer.I know she has.Because my mom before that, she'd gone through a year of chemo treatments for breast cancer.And it was gruesome.And it was so hard to watch her go through that.And there was always this lingering fear of this sickness that would come.

So then I was like, oh, she has cancer.But I didn't want to say it to Lucky.I did hint at it.And he was like, no, honey, you can't think like that.Then he didn't even, I don't even think he looked at Fonny really.He was like, you guys need to take her to like the closest hospital.

So the closest hospital was the Yale New Haven Children's Hospital.So I drove back home with Fonny because our other kids were at home and he took whimsy.And long story short, there were a bunch of like biopsies, ultrasounds, scans, whatever.And then a week after that initial visit, We got a phone call and I just remember standing in the living room and the phone rang and it was this like weird gut feeling.I'm like, oh, it's the hospital.They're gonna tell us she has cancer I looked at lucky and I'm like, this is it.

Let's just brace ourselves and like it's cancer And then you could just tell by the voice and they were like, we're so sorry.She has cancer you guys need to start like treatment immediately and then they took her in and Then she started treatment, they tested her further, did a few more scans, and they were like, it's really, it's spread in her body, so like, you guys need to, this is the treatment plan, this is what she has to do.And it was really hard.So we, Lucky kind of did the majority of the, because you would go home and then she would go to the hospital for five days and stay there from Monday to Friday, every like 16 -ish days, depending on what her blood count was.And Lucky did those overnight stays because I had Fani at home that I was nursing and I couldn't be away from her.So I would go during the day and then obviously try to also work and like do that.

So it was like playing Tetris almost.And then we had our other kids.So it was really, really hard.And it was a really tough experience.And every day you would wake up and not quite know what's going to what the day is going to bring, what the doctors are going to say, what like is the treatment working?Is it not like all these different things to where it It was really hard, yeah.

Nara, I am so sorry even just hearing you, no parent should ever have to experience this, no child should ever have to experience this.I can't imagine the emotional toll also of trying to be present for multiple children while also wanting to be present for the one child that is sick and going through it.It also sounds like such a blessing to have such an incredible partner who was able to take this on while you were taking this on over here.I'm curious, like, in that darkest moment where you, so you get that phone call as a couple,like what, how did you?

I think it was a lot of being on autopilot because I think when I'm faced with a crisis, whatever that crisis may be, I'm like, okay, there's no time for emotions.There's no time for anything.It's like zoning in and doing it.So I think at first, like we didn't process it, but I think it was, we were both on autopilot making sure that she was all right making sure our other kids were all right and it didn't really hit us yet right so we were like okay let's let's do it it's like fine i guess and we were very communicative like we communicated a lot i was checking in with him like how are you doing what are we doing like he was checking in with me um because you always hear when couples go through a really hard time it either makes or breaks you and a lot of the times i feel like i've heard about couples kind of drifting away, but I feel like it's even it's brought lucky and me even closer together because we were we really had to rally for whimsy.So yeah, that was that was just an insane experience.And then the more time went on, her hair started falling out and you like could physically see it like she would get really nauseous and like all the things that come with someone going through chemo treatment.

And I think that's when it kind of hit both of us.And then we started like, crumbling a little bit to where when I had a hard day with it, he picked me up.When he had a hard day, I picked him up and we were like, let's just keep going.It felt like we were, you know that game where you're like tied to someone else and you have to make it to the finish line together.That's what it felt like.And every time I was like, I don't think I can go any further.

He was like, yes, you can, like you can.And then vice versa.So I think it really, it required a lot, a lot out of both of us, but we made it.

How did you explain the changes that were happening to your other children?

I think they were at an age where they could kind of get it, but kind of not.but there was this book I don't remember the name of the book, but it was this book about cancer that a mom wrote after her kid went through, I think it was brain cancer, to like make sense of this situation.So we read this book, I think it was Something and the Hair Fairy or something.So where it talked about like, this, this cancer, it was like described as like a gummy ball in your body or something like that, and that you would lose your hair, and then the hair fairy would come and like, you should just put your hair somewhere and it's gonna take the hair and like it was a very beautiful kid story and all my five -year -old took away from that was like I want the hair fairy to come so I was like I don't think it works like that but like sure and then as time went on like they would have these random questions to where I also realized like maybe it is like on their minds to where I would like slim would ask me Is it like, can I get cancer?I'm like, no, it's not contagious.It's like trying to explain it, but they would ask these questions in the most random situations to where I knew that I just had to be like extra present with them and extra loving and kind of just explain things a little bit better for them.

But yeah.

What kept you hopeful in some of your darkest moments?

Knowing that I wasn't alone, like the community and knowing that there's parents out there that are and have gone through similar experiences that have made it out the other end and were fine, I guess, in whatever way you want to interpret that.But also just the fact that I can't give up hope.If I give up hope, whimsy will.And I need to show up for my daughter and I need to make sure she's all right.And she like, she will be all right.I'm going to make sure of that.

And if it's not this treatment, it will be next treatment.Like there was there'sthe thought of giving up emotionally or physically to me.

Do you have any, if someone, a parent is listening right now who happens to be going through something similar, do you have any advice that you would wanna share?

I just want people to talk about their emotions with anyone that they feel comfortable with.I think it can feel like a very, very isolating experience that, you don't really think anyone else would understand or go through or whatever.But the more community you seek, the more you'll find people showing up for you in ways that you never thought they will.Like, even by sharing that, I've had so many people reach out and offer support, even though now we're in remission.So I waited until we were, because I couldn't stomach going through everything at the same time.But having people reach out or sharing their own stories or even sharing how other people showed up for them.

I think community is so important and I want you to go seek that because there's a huge community out there that's so beautiful.

How do you think this experience has changed your family's just like day -to -day life now?

I think it's made me at least really be present and grateful for every moment that we have.It's made me really just see even the small mundane things as something that I enjoy doing and I wanna find the beauty in and make extra special.Like even if it's setting a table a little bit more elaborate than I wanted to or making them their favorite meal.Cause like, why can't we have mac and cheese tonight?I'll make mac and cheese.So I think it really made me cherish those small moments that before I was very nonchalant about.

In what ways do you think this experience allowed you to see lucky in a different light?

I've never thought about that question in that way.But I think seeing how tender he is, and so loving and supportive and like, there was no an optimistic, like there was not a single moment where he didn't show up for whimsy for me for the kids for everybody, as like a strong, partner and father.And sure, did he have really hard moments that we worked through together?Absolutely.But it just showed me just how beautiful this family is that we've built together and how each and every person has a part that's so integral for all of it to work properly.

Yeah.I remember you had said that you guys had gone to couples therapy before.Like, how did the foundation that you guys have built really prove to be a solid foundation during this time?

I like this is something that no one thinks is going to happen right so when we went to couples therapy I was like let's just do it to really build a strong foundation I wanted to make sure that we have the tools because he grew up in a different way than I did and we both bring baggage that maybe we're aware of or maybe we're unaware of and Therapy gets a bad rap.Couples therapy gets a really bad rap.It's like, oh, you're going to get divorced.That's why you're going to therapy.

What's wrong with you guys?

What's wrong?Sometimes like nothing's wrong and you just want to have the tools to have the best life.Like I want to have the best life in every aspect of my life.And that to me comes with work, sometimes harder, sometimes easier, but it's work nevertheless.So we kind of learned the tools of, I think one thing that was really big for us is communication.We kind of talked at each other a lot, but never with each other.

So I think that came in really handy with this experience to where even though I might have felt weird.I felt, created the space for him to feel the way he felt and for him to communicate that with me and for us to work through that together and really be heard by each other.

Oh my God, I can't even imagine how integral that was to the success essentially of you being able to just like every day get through this because like you said, I agree, I think you hear so many stories understandably of people losing their way with their partner because grief and trauma, like you're trying to regulate and you're trying to be there for your child who you're putting first.And so like it kind of becomes an afterthought sometimes about your partner.It kind of has to be.And so I think to know that you guys were able to really try to tap into that is so beautiful.Yeah.And I'm just also probably so beautiful for your other children to try to my best friend.

And I think that's also what really helped like he's not just my romantic partner, like he truly is my best friend.And I don't know what I would do without him.So it almost like our friendship and our understanding of each other really helped in every aspect.And our kids too, I think having that relationship to, sure, do we fight sometimes or bicker or argue?Absolutely.Our relationship is not perfect.

I don't think anyone's relationship with anyone is perfect, but I think our kids have seen us really rally and they've seen us maybe have an argument.I think it's healthy sometimes for them to see that, but then also see the resolution of it and how we find our way back to common ground.Like I think all of that was really important for them to see and I think it's just been a really humbling experience and hard.

You have been through, how old are you?24.Yeah.You have been through so muchlife.I have.

And you are so impressive.Like, obviously, you're now coming out with this cookbook.Yes.Homemade.It comes out October 13th.Yep.

And it's so interesting because we've watched you on TikTok.We've watched you making these concoctions.But to now put it into a book, and I love it because it's not just recipes.You're actually kind of telling the story of like how you got to where you are today.Why did you feel like now was the right moment to do something like this?

When I started with the whole TikTok thing and my recipes and videos gained traction, a lot of the comments were, we need a recipe book, where are the recipes?So I started with my sub stack and then just realized that I, I love a good book, I really do.So I'd also never owned a cookbook, which is weird.I'd never owned a cookbook and then writing this, my publisher was like, so have you ever read a cookbook?I'm like, no.She's like, you need to go, go get some.

But through this whole process, I just realized I want all of my recipes in a book that can live on someone's counter and be kind of timeless.I want it to be on your counter for a very long time.Hold up the book, I wanna see it.

The cover was a whole thing.Promo that thing, girl.No, it's so cute, even the back.

Like, it took...

It's a labor of love.Something I also need you to talk about is, um... there is someone that is very reoccurring in this book that you often bring up, and your grandmother.

Oh, I'm like, who are we talking about?

Your grandmother.Yes.What is one of your earliest memories with her in the kitchen?Because I know that she inspired a lot of your love for cooking.

Her and I were really, really close.She was the one that taught me how to play the piano, how to read, like she was very much involved.And I just remember there were a few things that she would make a lot.One of them wasoatmeal, like this cinnamon rich oatmeal.I've never been able to recreate it, but it was phenomenal.

And that was one of my first memories with her in the kitchen to where she would like wrap my hands around the spoon, tell me how to stir it, plate it up, sprinkle it with more cinnamon.And she was just this warm, very, and then we'd sit on this like banquette in her kitchen and behind us, it was just like a wall of black and white cat pictures.

Just a whole wall full of cat pictures.

I'm like, this is crazy.But yeah, that was one of my first memories and she's always been like an inspiration.Even like I got psychic readings once by like this religious medium.It was my grandma that would pop up in all these things and she was like, your grandma's wanting you to know this.Your grandma's really proud.Your grandma's like looking over you when I see her standing at the piano, what does this mean?

And I'm like, crazy, so you did see her.So you did see her.Yeah.

I was thinking about it too, because even you saying like, oh my God, I still haven't been able to recreate her oatmeal.No.You putting finally your recipes in writing, I feel like you're right.So many people for so long have been like, Nara, where's the recipe?Where's the cookbook?

And I'm like, I can't tell you, but I'm working on it.I promise.But I couldn't tell anyone for two years.OK, what is the first recipe you knew had to be in the book?Ooh, that's really hard, because we were going through lists of recipes for so long.But I knew that my kookier recipes had to be in it.

Like, I know you want to know how to make an Oreo.Let me give it to you, right?Cheez -Its, you don't have to buy that anymore.Let's just make it.So those recipes are in there.But then I also cook a lot of normal meals.

Like, I need to feed my family.I need to feed myself.So here are some recipes that I actually genuinely cook on and offline for my family.

They're a little less.

They're like cheesy.it.I know sometimes you just have like an hour to get dinner on the table.Let me tell you how to do that.

Okay, so you were giving us range.Range.I appreciate that.Yeah.What is one recipe that took the longest to get right?There's this one recipe in there that's like a sourdough bread, but not with a starter.

Oh.To where it was like, I'm not gonna make you feed your starter for like, because, okay, the recipe started off as like, I'm gonna show you how to make your starter, feed it every day.Yeah, like what do I do?Like, Nora, I don't know what to do with the starter.

Yeah, so I'm like...

That's like two weeks of work for a loaf of bread.I'm so sorry.Okay, so this is gonna help me have no starter.No starter.You still kind of get that same thing.It will only take you like five to six hours.

Okay, that sounds crazy still, but like for bread, that's not that long.

Because it's also hands -off work.I've heard literally people in LA like, I have got to hook up for someone who has starter.No, I literally...

No, Alex, you don't understand.My friend, she lives in Utah and she had a starter and I was at her house with my kids.And I was like, moaning to her, I'm like, I don't, I had to throw my starter away.And she was like, you can have some of mine, like Willa's really doing it.And I'm like, great.So she sent me home with a starter.

I flew around airport, like through security, I could take it, which I don't know whether I could actually, or whether the guy just knew me and he was like.

He's like, I see that starter, baby girl.I see that starter, just go, just go, just go.

I don't know, I would travel with it and feed it like every Airbnb I was in.How do you feed a starter?Water and flour.

I'm so stressed, Nara.No, I need to show you.It's really easy.I wanted to have fresh bread in my house.

No, I love fresh bread.But I'm like...I need to send you the bread recipe in there.I also have a sandwich bread recipe.Like, I think the baking ones took longer.Actually, cinnamon toast crunch cereal took so long.

Okay, so how, like, idiot -proof is this?Very.

Because I'm the idiot.But here's the thing.I think a lot of people have this misconception that I'm this, like,professional, I'm a home cook, honey.I started cooking at the same time as you saw me starting to cook.Like when I posted on TikTok, that's when I started cooking.

Okay, that makes me feel good.Yeah, so like.So I could maybe figure something out in here.

Some of these might be a little technical, but with the steps, you can figure it out.And then some of them are so easy to where you just throw some lentils and sweet potato in a pot and you'll be fine.

So I think that's range.I'm gonna make something.

Yeah.I wanted it to feel accessible to people.I didn't want it to feel like, oh, all you're getting is from scratch recipes.No, I wanted it to feel like an essential book that you can get started with and feel comfortable with.And like my cooking takes trial and error.Do you know how many times I've made things?

Like I tried making Twizzlers the other day, horrible, didn't work out, toss that.

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Yeah, what is it?

I'm going to throw you a scenario and you're going to tell me what I should make from scratch.You ready?Yeah, tell me then.You want to impress at a dinner party.What are you bringing?

I'm hosting, so I'm not, not bringing...Okay, okay.Me being like, I will never host a dinner party.I'm the girl that orders the takeout and puts it on the plate and pretends I made it.I've never done that, but that sounds fun.Genius.

Okay, what are you making for your dinner party?

So here's the thing, I love a good menu and I love a theme.We have to have a theme, we have to have a menu.So let's figure out the theme and then figure out the menu after.But what I do love, I'm a little biased, like a roast chicken.Here's the thing, a roast chicken feels impressive if you do it right, but it's very hands off.It's like one of the easiest, like that's the dinner I make when I'm like, I have no idea what to make.

It's a roast chicken because you like, Do it, pop it in the oven, and then you do a bunch of sides.I like things that you could prep the night before and then just plate the next day.

Done.OK, your kids come home from school absolutely starving.What are we making?Bread and jam.Bread and jam.That's a good answer.

You're trying to seduce your future husband.Yeah.

Steak and fries with a sexy peppercorn sauce.

Oh.Yeah.OK.You need to pick me up comfort meal after a really tough day.

Beef pie.

Okay, your in -laws are unexpectedly coming over in 30 minutes.What are you making?Something American.

Let me tell you that.Maybe a bro...No, tacos.Tacos.My dad -in -law loves his little tacos.

Okay, so I make some tacos, but it's so different from how you...are you making your own taco seasoning?

Well, what do you mean like mixing spices together?Oh, is that what you just take like cumin and whatever and like put it all together?

What do you what do you do?Oh, I get like the you know, the taco packs from the grocery store.Oh, that's an option.

Yeah, but I mean, taco seasoning is chill.You just have to have, you have your spices and you throw it together.

I never thought about it like that.Yeah.When I said idiot in the kitchen.Oh, so that's fine.I could just kind of.You can just.

Make it yourself.Well, of course.Like make your seasoning, like dry the bell pepper and like grind it and make it into paprika.Or like what are you putting on the beef to make it have that little like zest.

Oh.You just like, okay, you probably have a rack of spices in your kitchen, right?And you just throw them together, whatever makes sense for like the cuisine you're going for.And then I do love a good like, I like a good, sweet and hot thing.So I make my own salsas.I also have this really good recipe in my book, actually.

I'm not trying to plug hit it.Um, It's like a roasted pork situation, pork tacos with two different salsas.And you can put the pork on in the morning and put it in your slow cooker and then not think about it until dinner.That's what I'm going to try to make.And then you could either make your own tortillas if you want to, or you can just store -bought.Store -bought.

I'm like, hey, don't worry about getting crazy real far.If I'm making my own salsa, then I'm probably hitting up the tortillas at the grocery store.You know what?Or you do the tortillas and buy the salsa.Which one do you think?Which one's more impressive for me?

How are you making your own?We have so I have so many questions.Corn flour.Is it corn flour masa harina?Yeah, a little bit of water.What do you order for takeout?

Hmm.Oh, is this controversial?

No, I love a good takeout.I really do.I think sometimes that there's something so beautiful about someone else cooking for me.How many nights a week are you likecooking in your household?I try to cook every night.

Sometimes like the other day my chickens got eaten by a fox and I was making chicken and I was like, there's no way.So I got takeout.

Oh yeah, that feels a little.It felt a little barbaric to me.Yeah, yeah, yeah.I couldn't do that.It's a little morbid.Oh wow, so you're like, we're gonna.

It depends, but I usually order takeout that I don't really wanna make myself.So it's Indian food, Thai food, Vietnamese food, I would never order something I could make, like ordering a burger for takeout on Postmates, criminal activity, in my opinion.So crazy.

Yeah.

Who would ever do that?Sometimes it's a necessity, right?But for me personally, I can't.

No, you would hate to see me come in.If I pulled up my Postmates order, you're gonna be like, Alex.

Yeah, I would actually be like, let's just tweak this.How about we do Indian instead?

You cannot.

So that I would much rather order.

Okay, last one.You're over halfway through your pregnancy.It's 10 p .m.Asking for a friend.Suddenly, you need something.

You want to make something.Yummy.What are we making?Like, how much time?You got an hour.

Oh, that changes the game.Oh, 30 minutes?I would make, okay, I don't like this, but I know Americans love their chocolate chip cookies.I would make chocolate chip cookies, and then I would make Well, I would probably have ice cream that I made in the freezer, but you post made some vanilla ice cream and then you put your ice cream sandwich together, hot chocolate chip cookie, but like not hot because then it will crumble, but like warm vanilla ice cream in the middle, another chocolate chip cookie, and you press it together, get yourself an ice cream sandwich.And if you're feeling fancy, you melt some chocolate and like dip it and let it harden.You do that.

I love you.I am so going to do that.Oh, that's a good one.

Yeah.

Oh, I'm craving that right now.

It's good stuff.And like you don't have to like spoon it or do the whole thing.It's like an ice cream sandwich.And you can also prep those in advance and put them in your freezer.so you can just pull them out.And you get the perfect vanilla ice, because sometimes when you buy the pre -made stuff, you're like, the vanilla ice cream sucks, or the cookie sucks, but you can get it the way you want to get it.

You are blowing my mind right now.Yeah.

It's like talking to an expert, and I'm like this child that's like, I'm trying to absorb.Some stuff is going over my head.What's your pregnancy craving?Because that's what I want to know.OK, so in the beginning, obviously, I was nauseous.I wasn't craving anything.

Right, right, right.Then I started craving In -N -Out.A classic.

A classic.And so when you're like, oh, ordering burgers, I'm like, no, no, no, I'm going to In -N -Out.Well, because that's fair.

Okay, fair.That's fair.

We'll take that off the list because that was my craving too.

Okay, fair.But I would want... it weirdly in a lettuce wrap.And then I also wanted to get a Flying Dutchman.You're me.We're one.

Nara.That was me.

So good.Do you do chilies or no?Yes.Of course.We have the same order then.So good.

That was me.And then I started craving doughnuts, which was taking me down like a weird path.And I was like, every morning, my husband would come to my bedside and I would say like, bring me a doughnut and a little coffee.And I was like, so happy.So that was good.I love that for you.

And so I've gone through like some weird phases.It's kind of hit or miss sometimes, but for right now, I'm like, I'm really, really liking my ice cream right now.So this is why it's really hitting.No, no, no, I'm not making it.I'm not looking at you.Perfect, you're gonna make homemade ice cream.

I'm like, Nara.Do you know what's really good though, if you love an ice cream, is the Jenny's birthday cake ice cream.

Jenny's, salt and char.I will buy that.Oh, okay.So that's what I'm on.But right now, I don't know if you did this when you were pregnant, but I need a lot of different tastes kind of happening at once.So my bowl, Nara, is like mint chip, then vanilla, then chocolate.

then strawberry, then I have some cookies and cream, then I have some salted caramel.

And I need all the tastes.And then I just lay there and I'm like, ah.But I could only eat like three bites, because I'd feel so full so quick.

Immediately.I have so many questions after this, because I'm having issues with pregnancy pillows, and I'm trying to figure it out.So we'll talk offline.I wrote something down.We're rounding out our conversation.Now I feel like we're having girl talk.

I forgot we're in front of cameras.Okay.You talked a lot about wanting to build something that lasts.What does that mean to you?

One thing that I've always strived for is longevity.I want the business and whatever I'm creating to grow alongside me because it's unrealistic for me to think that I'm just going to be doing this for the rest of my life.Like, I'm going to grow and evolve.I'm only 24.I don't know what the next 10 years have in store for me.But all I know is I want to be working and building my business and growing to where I I enjoy so many different things.

Like obviously I love my social presence.I love cooking.So writing the cookbook felt natural.I ended up being in a movie where I had that whole experience to where now I wanna do acting.So I'm taking acting classes.I also wanna build my own brand.

Well, we'll get into that when the time comes, but I think people are really gonna love it.It's gonna be really fun.So we're working on that and then just kind of Figuring out TV that space just I feel like the world is my oyster and like the most grateful and humble way I could possibly say that because I'm so grateful to have the community that has put me in this spot to be able to Really execute my vision and I'm so grateful for it and really excited for the future I mean, I'm so happy that I got to talk to you because all the way back to the beginning of our conversation just talking about The misconceptions and the labels and I think it's just like another testament to what you said earlier I'm just like

why can't we all get more comfortable with celebrating women who are multifaceted and have drive in multiple different areas, and how about this, are thriving in multiple different areas of their life, and instead of that being a threat and something that we want to ignore or downplay, let's look and celebrate it.We should all just help each other.and really just uplift each other.That's all I want to do.No, I'm so happy I got to meet you.I really appreciate you.

Also, I know we went through so many different topics.And I know that so many of them were extremely personal.Well, thanks for making it a safe space.Of course.No, thank you for coming on Color Daddy.Thank you.