“Paredes Is A RAT!” John Terry and Simon Jordan On Argentina’s Behaviour & Spain Winning World Cup

You're probably going to spontaneously combust when I do say it.I would consider Lee Carsley.

And do I agree with foreign managers managing the national side?I probably don't.But if you're going down that route, you only go and get the best.And if he's available, you have to go and get into me.

Well, welcome to the final episode of World Cup Uncensored.What an amazing few weeks it's been, both for the World Cup and for this show.The last episode got nearly a million views, which is massively higher than any other World Cup online show.So thank you for watching from me, from Simon Jordan, from John Terry.We've had an absolute blast and we've got some little plans in the works, which we will reveal more as the next few weeks go on.But for now, we're going to have the ultimate inquest into the ultimate competition.

So welcome back to Simon Jordan and John Terry.How are you, chaps?

Very well, thank you.Simon, you good?

Yeah.Yeah, very well.I'm in Spain, Piers, which has its consequences, because I'm surrounded by celebrating Spaniards, which has got right on my nerves.

Well, I've got to say, I thought last night was fascinating, wasn't it?Let's start with you, Simon, here, because on one level, you had the Spanish, who I thought throughout the tournament proved themselves to be comfortably the best team.They conceded one goal in the entire tournament.They displayed utter class at all times.They conducted themselves on and off the pitch, I thought, splendid decorum and class.And on the other side, you have the Argentinians, who, frankly, were, last night, an utter disgrace.

Useless, actually, in the final.Messy, wet, missing.They were nasty, as they had been the whole tournament.I hated what they did with the Malvinas banner after beating England.I thought that was repulsively inflammatory.I loved the fact they got their comeuppance.

I thought what happened last nightat the end of the match, when they basically just went around whacking as many Spanish players as they could, was one of the most disgusting things I've seen in World Cup history.So, you know, I saw the Argentine manager Scaloni in tears after, Messi in tears, and I think Crocodile Tears, you guys deserve no sympathy from us for the way you conducted themselves in this entire tournament.Am I wrong?

No, I don't think you're wrong.I mean, on a human level, you think about people's emotions.On a football level, you think about people's emotions, and then you stand back from it, and I stand with the same perspective as you, which is I don't have any empathy.But they're not looking for empathy.For whatever reason, Scaloni was crying at that press conference.He sent a team out that had no intention of trying to win the game, that behaved in a certain way, and then sits at a press conference, crying because the outcome hasn't been what he anticipated it would be.

I find it slightly farcical.But the other side of the equation, Piers, is we can dress it up however we want.They are renowned for tears and histrionics.But they win World Cups.And they get to World Cup finals.

Well, yeah, but they lost.

They get to World Cup finals, Piers.They win World Cups.You know, whether they lost or they didn't lose in this individual match, evidently they did.The fact of the matter is they're in a World Cup final and for whatever reason, for whatever reason, and we haven't seen you since the England disappointment on Wednesday night between myself and John, and Graham soon is pulled to pieces.You know, there's a part of me, I would rather lose.by being ugly than win by being pretty and happy and nice and playing the game in a certain way.

I want to win in the best possible way, Piers, but I want to win.I'm tired of this mentality of we come second, we're very good participants.And so whilst I don't like the ugliness and the uncouthness and the identifying stats of some of the Argentinian players, there is at least a deep seated desire to seem to want to win and overcome adversity rather than succumb to it.

Well, you know what I thought, John?Because I thought your show was fascinating the other day.And it got these huge numbers because it made so much news.But I've taken a slightly different view about this.I think that we were five minutes away from reaching the final.And we can criticise all sorts of aspects to the final 20 minutes or so of what happened.

But nobody would have continued down that narrative train if we'd actually got through those last five minutes.And what really pissed me off watching last night was just how mediocre Argentina actually are.They're not a great team.And actually, the way that Spain just played them off the park, controlled the ball, nullified the threats, completely silenced Messi, was a template in how to do it.My question for you, John, is when you watched England against France in that bonkers game, Well, we're 4 -0 up, then they come charging back, eventually we win 6 -4, we're playing endless free -flowing football and so on.But a fully fit Saka, a fully fit Declan Rice, if they had been fully fit for the Argentina game, playing the way they did against France, I think we could have won that game.

The thoughts?

Piers, I'm in agreement and I think that's the frustration from all the England supporters.I said it before the Argentina guy, I didn't fear Argentina like I did kind of maybe four years ago or previously for that.I thought they were a side that were there to be beat.They have a superstar in Messi who can produce brilliance at any moment, which we see in the last 10 minutes.But man to man, I still stand by it.We were better than them.

And listen, they were very poor against Spain.I think that's the frustration from the England supporters.I think the manager has been saved.by not getting too much stick from the supporters in winning that game against France.But I actually can't believe there's been no scrutiny in this France game because4 .30pm, you know that France are going to come out and they're going to give absolutely everything in the second half.

And after the first goal, 48 minutes I think it was, then 54, then 66, I'm screaming going, we need defenders on the pitch.Even after the first goal goes in.So from a tactical point of view, from the manager again, I think he got this game completely wrong.Yes, for a neutral, I think it was end -to -end and it was brilliant to watch.But from a defensive point of view, I'm going get Elliot Anderson on, get in next to Declan Rice, soak it up a little bit, take the sting out of it because they had the tail between their legs, France.And we've seen throughout this competition, they can score goals.

So I'm frustrated as the average England fan as well, because, listen, you get to the final against Spain, you have a small chance.I think they were the favourites going into it and I think they were very good all the way through it but I believe we should have beaten Argentina.

Yeah, I do.It's interesting reading what Harry Kane said after the France game that in the second half we fell back into the same kind of trap we fell into in the Argentina second half and that that's something they've got to work on and that Tuchel was right to pick them up on that.That there are things that we're just doing wrong when we come under pressure which we need to learn from and improve on.I thought the abuse that Tukul took after this was way overblown.In the end, we had the best performance in the World Cup since 1966.That is indisputable.

Well, it depends what you think.Hang on, Piers.I don't like losing.I don't like losing.Coming third is not winning, I agree.

But we did still have to third.No, but you can't...But no serious observer...Piers, come on now, pack it in.No serious observer is taking anything out of that French performance.Because in the first half, you got a French team that was two yards off being competitive.

John will recognise it.He will know it if he's going to be candid in this conversation.

He will know the French team in the first half.I agree, they didn't want to be there.

couldn't have cared less.Yeah.So we were like a bunch of...nice there's no comparison between what they put out against the French in the second half you saw England you saw the French get a boot up their backside put four players onto the live on the side up and England's response was to nearly to nearly shit the bed and if they hadn't have been so profligate the French if David Alissi hadn't have missed so many chances this game would have been out of sight we'd have lost this game Jude Bellingham scored one of the greatest goals.

Jude Bellingham's goal was up there with Maradona's.So we didn't shit the bed, it's a moment.We didn't shit the bed, we remade the bed and we went back at them again.What we should have done against Argentina.

The goal itself is individual play from our star man throughout this tournament.But I'm watching that game, there was only one team I thought that was going to go on to win that game, and that was France.They could have easily won that game 8 -6, which shows probably our defensive frailties throughout this competition.We've conceded too many big chances.Both teams had 19 chances at goal in that game.It was end -to -end.

It was a bizarre game to watch, but disappointing for me.And also with Tuchel's comments, Piers, after the game, he's saying that it's in our DNA.He didn't take the two most technical players we probably have, as well as Jude, to the tournament.So he's taken a really big, strong, physical, pacey side, loads of strong, pacey individuals, and then claims that it's not in our DNA to be really technical.When you need, and we spoke about Michael Owen talking about players being brave in this tournament, Gold Palmer and Phil Foden, give them to the ball, anywhere on the pitch, they will get you up the pitch, they will drag you forward, or they will commit a foul at any point.And we left our two best technical players at home.

But John, my response would be to that, because I watched what Graham Sooner said about Declan Rice and Elliot Anderson.And although I've already said, I don't think I've seen enough from Anderson to justifytransfer fee and definitely not enough for Morgan Rogers to justify his I think the market's gone nuts but putting aside the valuation on these guys when he says that Declan Rice for example is a limited player and he doesn't see enough football in them I say did you watch Declan Rice for Arsenal last season where we won the Premier League against some fantastic teams right we won it because Declan Rice drove us morning, noon and night for the entire season.Now, Declan Rice, when he's fully fit, I think he's one of the top midfield players in the world.So, if I've been with Graham...

I agree with you 100 % on that.

And I thought he was brilliant against France.The problem for Rice was, he's played, I think, 70 games of football.Right?I mean, when we play the Champions League final, the PSG players have played, on average, 30 % fewer games of football in the season than Arsenal's.Saka, when he looked knackered to me in the early rounds of this tournament, the early games, but against France, he looked fantastic again, as he was at his peak for Arsenal when he wasn't knackered.Same with Declan Rice.

These guys need protecting more.I'm not quite sure the best way to do it, but when they are at their peak, Declan Rice is one of the best in the world.

Piers, with respect to you, and I'll take it from John but I won't take it from you, I'm going to take the opinions of an excellent midfielder like Graeme Souness over your bias about whether your Arsenal boy is good enough to be categorised as a world -class player.

I don't think he's watched as much of Dex & Wise as I have, I'm going to tell you that.

And that's your point Piers, where you are on solid ground...I hear you.Were you on solid ground, Piers, with Graeme's comment?Is that Graeme has watched him playing for England more than he's watched him playing for Arsenal.And I think the comparison between the Arsenal Declan Rice and the England Declan Rice is relatively fair for Graeme's observations.If you look at Declan Rice in the first half when the French are two yards off, he looks like a world -class player.

In the second half, he doesn't look like a world -class player.If you look at the third French goal, that was down to Declan passing the ball through the middle of the park that they...Look, the bottom line is we can pick our individual attributes.Your observation about the bias or the reaction to Thomas Tuchel is not justified.If you make the kind of mistake and the kind of decision -making process that you said you would not make, that you said you would do differently from your predecessor, and you made a song and dance out of it, and the very moment comes that you were brought in for, and you don't do it, and the team...If you've got a toddler, peers and you've given him a chocolate all afternoon and he wants to go to bed right and suddenly he doesn't want to go to bed he wants more chocolate you don't give him more bastard chocolate you turn around and say I'm going to do something different.

But what happens?

Let me take your chocolate analogy.Hang on, hang on.Let me just take you up on that.Let's assume for a moment that we'll talk about chocolate.Imagine if you'd given that kid chocolate in the previous two nights, and he'd actually slept like a baby.Because Tuchel's argument is that, actually, tactically, we pretty much did the same as we did against Mexico and Norway, and it got us over the line.

Ugly football, as you called it.Now...Not for 40 minutes.Just jump in, John.Not for 40 minutes.I agree.

I agree.And I would have liked to have seen this being more free.But I do think it's been...We were five minutes away from winning that game.

That's what we need in football.

We were 35 minutes away from conceding a goal at any given moment.So pack in the five minute observation, right?We might have been able to hold out.But the bottom line is, is that we were 35 minutes away from conceding a goal at any given time.It wasn't a case of if, it was a case of when.when and a manager that is rewarded recognized and eulogized as much as Thomas Tuchel has been is entitled to get the brick backs when you make that kind of decision making process that unwinds the whole opportunity that the England team now should they could England's team beaten for Spain no but they could have beaten Argentina I agree and should have beaten Argentina I agree with that I agree that's the challenge but but TT The wider point I would make about the overplaying of our players, I think it gives us a massive disadvantage.

Now, you add the heat and the conditions and so on.especially how brutal the Mexico game was.I thought Harry Kane in the last two games, you saw the impact of the previous games on Harry Kane, right?And I think definitely on some of the other players too.But putting that to one side, the mere fact that our players are playing so much more football, than a lot of these guys they meet in these big tournaments.Is there an argument now to say, right, you know what we're going to do?

We're actually going to do what they do in the Bundesliga.We're going to have two weeks off at Christmas and New Year.We're just going to stop playing.We're going to give the players a chance to recharge.We're going to have fewer games or whatever it may be.I just think we're overplaying our top players.

And then by the time we get to a tournament, they get knackered faster than the rivals do.

From a retired player, it's hard to say the players play too much because I'd give anything to go back tomorrow and have one season or 70 games, whatever that may be.I agree.I think a Christmas break will be... would be incredible for the boys.Just to have a reset, I think it's the fans or the Premier League you have to convince.It's not the players.I think the players would be up for it now because there is a lot of games for these boys.

And you want to see the best football.You want to see players playing at 95, 100 % week in, week out.You don't want to see them tiring at 70, 75 % because you get a lesser game to watch.

Yeah, I think that, Simon.I think we've got to rethink the structure of our game because I think we're just overplaying.We're overrunning our thoroughbred horses, right?If this was a stable of thoroughbred horses, you wouldn't let them run as much.

No, absolutely.You wouldn't let them turn into old nobblers, would you?The bottom line is, I look at it and say, you're absolutely right.We're overplaying the players.The consequences of the financial decisions that are being made around English football mean that they're trying to generate revenue from everywhere you go.Look at the PSG Arsenal final, Piers.

The reasons why PSG were so much fresher is because they rested their players for 10 days in advance of that Champions League final.And you could see the difference between the two sides.It's clear.The evidence doesn't need empirical data to support it.If your players are rested better and given more opportunities to play,be able to play less as many games but better structured calendar you might see a better outcome international level but the difference also is you've got to have better preparation and build towards an England team that has a culture set in it from a long way back and that doesn't necessarily just mean by putting a best -in -class manager that I've hung on to thinking we get elite manager it'll make a difference.

Would you get rid of Thomas Tuchel now?

Yes, I would.Really?The very purpose it was brought in was to make...Yes, I would, Piers.Because I think if I'd given Thomas Tuchel the brief...And if the brief is as I understand it to be, which is make us better than we were before, take the opportunities that were there and be the very best version of ourselves and build towards a tournament on that basis and that basis alone.

If I do a review after that as the FA chairman and I go, was that the basis of what the brief was given to you?Was that performed?My answer would be no.My next question would be, are you worthy of a second go at the wheel?Do you learn lessons?Listen to his press conferences after the Argentina game.

Listen to his press conference on a Friday and listen to his press conferences after the France game.I think Thomas Tuchel, whilst being a very good manager is a bit too comfortable with what he thinks he knows and what he doesn't know.And so I look at it and go, hmm, I think this experiment hasn't worked.I'm actually coming around to the conclusion that the John Terrys of the world that dealt with Fabio Capello, the generation that dealt with Svengård Eriksson, and this generation, you need to perhaps have an England manager that relates to the nuance and context of the nationalities of the team that he's managing.That is why, Piers, nobody has won a World Cup with a foreign coach.

Yeah, no, I know.That may well be the reason why.I thought this was going to be the year that would get challenged by either Ancelotti or Tuchel.I was wrong.Me too.Me too.

As we're talking, breaking news from Italy, that Italy have held talks with Pep Guardiola today about becoming their new head coach, and there were reports, JT, that England have been looking at Pep and talking to him as well.You know, how frustrating would it be, do you think, if Guardiola were to come back?managing Italy if we could have potentially had him at England?Would you have preferred that to Tuchel?

I go back to the point of going, do I agree with foreign managers managing the national side?I probably don't.But if you're going down that route, you're only going to get the best.And if he's available, you have to go and get him to me.Mourinho nearly became Chelsea manager, England manager back in 2006 -07.Had extensive talks with the SA and was almost going to do Chelsea and England and take us into the Euros or World Cup.

I can't remember what it was.But I think if the best is available, you go and get him.Pep is the best.by a million miles.

Would you fire Tuchel after one tournament where he comes with the best performance since 66 for the England team?

No, I wouldn't, but I'm really critical of him and I think the fans can be critical of him because I think he's failed.I agree with Simon in terms of that.We've brought him in and we all sat here at the start of this tournament to go, if push comes to shove at the end of it, will he make those right calls?I was a big believer that he would.He'll make the big calls.He's seeing Harry Kane on a daily basis.

He's having conversations.You can see these boys firing.There's no one that knows these players better than the manager at those moments.Take him off.Make a big decision.It was crying out for Madawaki up front.

Make those decisions.He put him on in every other game other than the game we needed him in.It was crazy.I couldn't believe what I was watching, Piers, to be honest.So I think he's fouled, and I think he's fouled the players, to be honest, the way he's dealt with it.I don't also like the way he spoke after the game.

shifting it onto the players and the DNA of the English players.So I'm not in the camp of sacking him.I still think he's a very, very good manager.I'll stand by that.But he really has to now take this.

So what is the consequence for failure, John?In football, too often, there's always another game.There's always enough someone else to pay a bill.There's always something else that can occur.Surely, if you fail in life, in any walk of life, there has to be a consequence.It can't just be, all right, mate, go again.

It has to be a consequence, surely.

Simon, I'm with you.But where do we go if we decide that?We spoke about Eddie Howe.Do we go Lance, Lance is at Coventry?

Do you know what I think, Jon?Do you know what I think?Here's something I never thought I'd hear myself say, right?And you're probably going to spontaneously combust when I do say it.I would consider Lee Carsley.You know why?

Because he knows the DNA of English players.He understands the culture of the team.He's won things with England, like Scaloni, like De La Fuente at Spain.So when you're building an international team, you've played for both domestic level and international.It's a whole different dynamic.When you've got Jurgen Klopp understanding the DNA of Liverpool, it's not because he understands the DNA of Liverpool Football Club players.

It's because he related to the fans and got them a winning culture.But all the players in the dressing room were foreign nationals.They weren't all British players.So of course he could get them around to his way of thinking.

I think a lot of English fans would prefer an English man in charge rather than a foreign manager.So I think a lot of England fans would be with you.And also, he would know half the group he's worked with most of them in the other 21s with Ashley Cole, hasn't he, as well?

Isn't the truth, though, John?England fans would love anyone that won us a trophy.And my calculation now is the World Cup's been and gone.Yes, we failed.No question.This idea of winning a bronze.

It's like the Olympics when you win bronze.You've come third.You've lost.Fine.But it is our second best finish since 66.And Tuchel's only had one tournament.

We knew before this tournament he had it for the next one as well.The Euros are in the UK.will have home advantage.Many or almost all of our top players will still be available in two years time and should be some of them like Bellingham probably even better than they are now, Saka and others, Rice.all the perfect age.You know I could absolutely see us winning in two years time the Euros and it coming home when we're at home.

Well let's not forget France and Spain are in that world.I know, I know.But listen I'm not in the camp to Satu but I'm really not.I think What I would love to see from Tupo after that game to come out and go, I got it wrong.Firstly in my squad selection and also tactically I got it wrong today.But I'm telling you now.

I will not make this mistake again.And yet, it's far too late.I mean, Simon's camera's on.Where's the accountability?But I think he's a very good manager.And looking around at the moment, is there any other managers available?

Probably not.I think he'd be better for this, without a doubt.But I think we're allowed to also criticise him for the way we went about it.No, I agree.

I agree.I agree.And Harry Kane, the exact quote I was looking for earlier.He said there are a lot of what -ifs after the other night.This is after the French game.It's going to take time to process it.

For him as Tuchel as well, just because he's one of the best coaches in the world doesn't mean he's going to get it right every time.The players on the pitch are the same.We all make mistakes and we have to try and improve.The fans have a right to be angry.I think Thomas knew more than anyone when he took the job it was going to be high pressure and high stakes.I can confirm that because he said...

We talked about it in my local cafe, as I said to you guys earlier in the run.Kane said, I think he needs time to process it all.It's been a crazy journey.A lot of ups and, obviously, one big down.His first tournament as well, he's learnt from the players the pressure of the environment, the travelling, that will only make us better for the future.And, of course, next time, there won't be any travelling other than up and down our own country.

I really do think if we just can avoid the natural tendency we have with England managers and prime ministers and stick with one who we know is good, but just came up short here.

I think we could win.And I hear that.I don't want to be reactionary.And I don't want to go down the camp of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.But if someone shows you what they are, believe them.I'll go on even further if you want to.

Go look at that absurd, embarrassing, arse -clenching, cringeworthy moment of a coach that we've all been listening to, right?Because we've all been wanting, we're in a desert, right?We'll drink sand and believe it's an oasis.This coach, Anthony Barry, that comes on at halftime with a French, and trots out the most embarrassing load of trot I think I've ever had the misfortune to listen to.

But that's the mindset, Piers.

That's the mindset that's around the players.And that's the mindset that the manager brought in to talk to the players.Come on now.

You guys spoke about Argentina and the dark arts that they possess and a lot of teams do in this competition.I look at Argentina's second goal, and you watch it back.Jed Spence gets fouled by Messi.If that's any other player in this World Cup, they're rolling around on the floor.So in terms of dark arts, I think that's on the players a little bit.We need to get, as a country, we need to get better at that, of rolling around at these major tournaments, because any touch, any little flick is a foul.

It could possibly be a yellow card.We're terrible at stuff like that.We need to get better as a nation at that.

What would you have done?Do we owe Judge Jed Spencer an apology?

No, no, I have to say...

No, no, not for that game, Jon.We panned him.We panned him.Both you and I said he wasn't good enough.Do we owe him an apology for his performances at the back end of the tournament?

Simon, he's there as a defender in this World Cup.Defensively, I'm telling you now, I could pick his performances apart.minute by minute by minute.Chances by Chuck, the tackle he makes, he's so out of position, but he's so quick to be able to get back and make that unbelievable tackle.I have to say, going forward, I thought he was excellent.But defensively, if he wants to

pick up the phone, honestly, I'll happily have a conversation because he has all the attributes to be a top defender.Physically strong, quick, but you look at that chance that he makes that tackle, you look at the cross that Messi gets into the box.If that's me in the last two or three minutes of a World Cup semifinal, I'm there, my legs outstretched, I'm doing everything I can to block it.Physically, Messi shouldn't get near him, but he gets half a yard on him and Anderson gets across in the box that costs us the semi -final.So, defensively, no, I stand on it.Going forward, hold my hands up.

I thought he was excellent, Simon.

By the way, on Messi and dark arts, there was a moment last night when he tried to get Kukurela sent off.because Cucaracha went like that on his hand, literally like that.And Messi immediately ran off like the school sneak to get him red carded.I thought that was disgusting.So all this stuff of Saint Lionel, right?A, supposedly the greatest player to ever play the game, went completely missing in the final.

Completely missing.You leave him alone, Piers.To the extent I didn't think he was even on the pitch, right?But secondly, not Mr. Nice Guy after all.Not Mr. Halo Boy, not Mr. Saint Lionel.He deliberately tried to get Kukurela sent off in the most shameless, horrible manner imaginable.

Your thoughts?

He's still the greatest player of all time, that's a fact.

He wasn't even the greatest on the pitch yesterday.

Rogeri played him off the park yesterday.It tells me the mindset of the Argentinian players yesterday.

Cheats.

Enzo and Mark Kukerea are very, very, very good friends at Chelsea.And he was also trying to get his mate sent off in the final.And also you never see Messi do that.So it goes to show their mindset that they needed to get Kukerea sent off yesterday.They were way outclassed all over the pitch yesterday.Spain were the better side and thankfully they went on to win it.

was karma, Simon.Karma for the Malvinas banner, which was disgusting, by the way.And imagine if the Iranian players had danced around a banner taunting the United States about the war in Iran.Imagine that, right?What would the reaction have been?Would the Trump administration have said, that's fine, do it again?

Absolutely not.

No, exactly right.That's why it's relatively hypocritical for Giuliani to come out with a load of old nonsense about he's a big advocate for freedom of speech, as if there's this constant situation where we aren't.It was nonsense.It suits them to make a point at other people's expense, and they have double standards when it comes down to their own.But he does that.Andrew Giuliani is very robust in conversations.

He creates strawman arguments, and then you're arguing against a load of old nonsense.

He's the Simon Jordan of the American football world.

Piers, I'll go high when you go low, mate.But the bottom line is...No, you don't!

You look at that...

You look at those sort of things and you think...These kids that had nothing to do with a circumstance 44 years ago with a situation of a country that is Indigenous population is solely British that was a piece of property that the Spanish seemed to think they were entitled to because when they were given independence from the Argentinians 300 years ago It's a load of old nonsense and it shouldn't be on a football field and the only thing I'll say in defense of the players is it wasn't their banner It wasn't their banner, it was given to them by some football fan.Of course they did, it's Jinguistic Piers.In the same way that they were revved up for their national anthem, they used this as additional adrenaline.And I just wish we had something that we could have bitten down on to give us that additional bit of adrenaline from the minute 55.

Let's just there's some other breaking news actually just before we came on there which I just wanted to talk to you guys about which is the incredibly sad news of the death of Kevin Keegan.I mean JT one of the all -time great Englishfootballers, really, in history.

Incredible talent, Piers.I'm very sad to hear, actually, and I didn't spend much time with him in his company, but what you hear from everyone on the post today is he just sounded like an amazing man. I'm very unfortunate I didn't get to meet him or spend time with him, but an absolute legend of the game and, you know, so many heartfelt messages going around the world today.

Simon played at various clubs at incredibly high level but I remember him for England.He had an amazing engine, great technique, fabulous skill, a real desire to win.He was like a complete footballer wasn't he Keegan?

Well, they also said he was irreplaceable.And Kenny Dalgleish came into Liverpool.But when Keegan, I remember growing up as a kid, and Keegan was the endorser of the Patrick super Keegan boots every kid had to have.And he made this revolutionary move going to going to Hamburg in 1977, which was a complete and utter breaking of the protocol of English players.And then he comes back and in a way that only Keegan, I live next door.This is John Hall, who employed him when I was in Spain, as I am now.

And he spoke so passionately and fervently about Kevin.And I was desperate to get Kevin.And I had you two Herberts on upfront.And I was desperate to get Kevin on there to do an interview with Kevin.Because you know, you have people in your life, Piers, that you really admire.And Keegan was those.

Whether it was superstars, whether it was Brute, or whether it was... going to Germany or whether it was leading the 1982 England team that disappointed but not withstanding it, he was still at the front of it.Whether it was him as a Newcastle manager that bought that style of play in 96, or whether it was a disappointment of England, it doesn't matter.Whether it was Fulham or Man City, in all his incarnations, Keegan was one of those that stood out.And it's a really, really sad loss.

Yeah, you mentioned Superstar because I loved that show when I was young.And it showed so many facets to his character.incredible physical strength and mobility.he had, the determination, the will to win, the courage, even when he got injured, fighting on.He was a fantastic role model, wasn't he?Apart from anything else.

In all ways, in all ways.I saw him do a couple of speaking engagements.He worked with my Michelle on something in a project with a Northeastern business.He was an inspirational character.Like all of us, he had his challenges.I don't think he was the easiest manager to manage at certain times, if you're an owner.

But he was charismatic, and he was enigmatic, and he was a hell of a player.And, you know, I read his book, which was interesting.But for me growing up with Kevin Keegan and watching him as a player, in a difficult period for English football, we didn't qualify for the 78 World Cup under Ron Greenwood.We beat the Italians 2 -0 at some sort of tipping of our head towards the fact we didn't qualify.But he was a superstar, not just a participant in the show Superstars with Brian Jackson, Jeff Capes, and all those people peers, but a real superstar.And it's a real sad thing for him and his family and for football fans to lose him at a comparatively young age of 75.

Absolutely, wholeheartedly agree and endorse those views.Let's get back to the World Cup, John.You were actually at the Oval Office with President Trump.

I was, Piers, actually, yeah.

What was that like?Why were you there?Were you putting him right about the Iran war or what was going on?

No, definitely not.We just got invited down to meet and have a photo.I actually mentioned that I was on the show with you and he had no clue who you was, Keith.

I teed you up for that because I messaged you at the time saying, just tell him you work with me and you'll be fine.You'll probably get the keys to the Oval Office.It was interesting because I had to laugh.I did actually find it very funny because obviously Trump loves being the centre of attention.Obviously, if he could possibly get away with it, he was going to try and be in the winner's picture.And there was this comical scene, almost comedic, wasn't it?

When you had Infantina running on to try and drag, delicately, Trump out of the picture.Because you could see Roger E was waiting for him to exit so they could get a clean shot of the players.And Trump hung around like a naughty schoolboy on the end of it.And then Spain, when they released their official picture, they airbrushed him out.I don't know if you noticed that.In the end, I would say that the Baligan incident was terrible for Trump, without him even realizing, and particularly for Infantino.

Other than that, I've got to say, fair play to the Americans in particular.It was a brilliant World Cup, superbly run as a tournament.The geography, which we were all worried about, actually wasn't really an issue.And that all goes quite well for the next one in Spain, Portugal, and Morocco, where the distances will actually be shorter.And I thought that There were some fantastic games, and crucially, I think, for any tournament, most of the big stars turned up and put on great performances.Whether it's Messi or Haaland or Ronaldo fleetingly or Bellingham, Kane, you picked all the players before the tournament you would want to do stuff which caught everyone's attention.

It happened.I thought, John, that it was, overall, a very successful tournament.What did you think?

I thought it has to go down as the biggest and best World Cup since I've been alive, to be honest, guys.I thought it was excellent.And also being around a lot of the stadiums as well, there's a lot of shit in the world at the moment, a lot of negative press.And I have to say, you don't often see this in the UK as well with supporters.We're so tribal back here.But you had fans sitting next to each other from different countries.

Listen, there were small incidents, of course there will be.Not much.on the whole I thought it was excellent the way people were getting on and it's just nice to see that side of the world in today that we live in.So firstly, that's great.But on the flip side of that, the football was excellent.Like you said, the top boys really, really turned up for this tournament.

And I don't know if you guys see it.When we went to meet Trump, he spoke on stage with Gianni next to him, and he brought up the Baligan incident and thanked him again in front of everyone.It's been...He doesn't get it.Gianni was there like, let's move on, let's move on.But it was quite funny.

But I have to say, fair play to FIFA in America.I thought they'd done it excellently well.

Yeah, Simon, you know, it's interesting because overnight there was another fascinating story about the insight of some of these American sports stars.Bryson DeChambeau in the open.when he had this little argument over whether he'd rustle back the grass behind him to give himself a better lie to play a shot, gets a two -shot penalty.It could have ended up costing him the tournament, as it turned out.But it's now been confirmed from multiple sources that he called Trump, who he's a mate with.Trump's taken part in his YouTube challenge of breaking 50.

He called Trump to try and get involved in that.And I'm sure he did it, because he saw what he did for Ballinger.So the problem with what Trump did there, even though he doesn't get it and doesn't care, Infantino should have got it and should care.And you've now got other American sportsmen in other sports thinking, I can just call our president, and he'll fix it.I mean, it's ridiculous.

Yeah.You're going to have difficulty getting me to give more than two fucks about golf.But the reality of what he did in this situation.

JT and I can talk you through golf, mate.It's for the elite athlete.Yeah, I'm sure you can.

If you're looking at this tournament, yeah, John's absolutely right.It's got 48 teams.It's the biggest tournament.It's got 6 .8 million tickets sold, which was better than the biggest World Cup before, which was where?In the US with 3 million tickets.The problem with this World Cup and also all the bullshit that we had to listen to leading up to this tournament about how ICE was going to do this and how ICE was going to do that.

And I had a couple of unwashed, you know, lefty professors from Columbia telling me, because they watched one game in the World Club Championship, that they had empirical data that said that Ice was going to invade every single stadium.None of that happened, right, Piers?But the one thing that did happen, Piers, and this is the blot on the copybook, is we picked a scab.Trump picked at a scab about the integrity of the sport and the inability to have authenticity.And that will cause a ripple effect.

Yeah, I agree.

And I realize you can only perhaps step in a ripple once.But what you saw there was Infantino at his very emollient worst.Yeah, I agree.And that is a challenge, Piers, going forward.No, I totally agree.

I thought what Infantino allowed to happen, it was ridiculous.I think the outcome, in a valid on one note, Simon, you called it from day one.The outcome of it for the player was the right thing to happen.So, again, I'm sure FIFA come away from this going, right, let's have a view of these yellow cards, red cards after games.

Yeah, I mean, I just think there's no point.There's no defence of the Balligan thing, at all.And actually, I felt sorry for him, to a point.But if I'd been Balligan's advisers, I'd have said, you know what, don't play.Don't play.Even though you're now being allowed to, just don't play.

Because I think it cost...I think they lost all their juice, the Americans.They were doing really well.But I bet if you ask Pochettino...

They were 1 -4 -1 after that.

Yeah, but I bet if you ask Pochettino, it threw them off their game.All that attention on...Suddenly they went from the golden boys of the tournament, the home side doing great, to the cheats.And it's not, you know...Mentally, that's got to hurt.Oh, shut up.

Shut up, Piers Lasso.LAUGHTER Piers Lasso, did you call me?That's the takeaway of this World Cup, I'm sensing.Piers Lasso.Let's go to a less contentious matter.Who was the biggest prick of the tournament?

It's a strong word, prick.Well, come on, we all use it.Come on, we all know what we mean by that.I know who mine is.It was the Argentinian.What's his name?

Pederez or Paredes, the guy that started the fight last night.Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.Absolute little rat.So, he's getting my prick of the tournament.John?Sorry, I can't hear you guys.

You're not all going shy suddenly, are you?No, I'm going to repackage prick into this environment.

Simon?I'm going to repackage prick.I'm not going to go down.Here's a prick.I'm going to I'm going to repackage it into disappointment.Yeah, my biggest disappointment.

I'm sorry.I don't care who doesn't like to hear it and thinks I'm being reactionary is too cool.Because I backed I based all my arguments for the last 18 months and five years of the vitriolic comments I've made about Gareth Southgate on this guy's ability to be able to make a big decision at a big time.So rather than say he's a prick because I don't think he's a prick.I'm going to turn around and say he's a bloody disappointments.

John, who would your biggest disappointment be of a tournament then?Which is the safe way of saying prick.

That's a tough question.I have to say, I was in a debate whether I'd watch the England -France game.I woke up so disappointed and ended up watching it.So I'd have to say us, to be honest.I have to say, just in the man up here, because I thought we were good enough to get there.

And in terms of the, on the positive, the biggest win, obviously Spain were the biggest winners, but outside of Spain, who are champions and thoroughly deserved, I thought Comfort would be the best team.Who were, for you, Simon, the biggest winners of this tournament, other than Spain?

Actually, Piers, I'm going to sit on, I'm going to, actually, Piers, I'm going to climb off the fence, and I'm going to go back to who's the biggest prick argument, and I'm going to give it to Infantino.He hands out piece awards, I'm going to hand out prick awards.Here's prick of the competition for you, Infantino, because your job is to uphold the value of this bloody tournament.Who's... you look...once upon a time favorite people I suspect Piers not so much after you handed him out Arsene Wenger and his big attitude towards development of football around the globe and believing that the opportunity to invest more in countries that currently don't have the infrastructure will produce more players for around the world which means all the big clubs can't just hoover up all the talent so I think if you look at the capaverdes of the world I think if you look at some of those sides that performed in this World Cup that showed you that beyond the conventional orthodoxy of who you think is good and who you think isn't good, that there are other opportunities to be engaged and interested.That doesn't mean I want to see Capo Verde in the final against Saudi Arabia.

But it doesn't mean that I don't respect what they've achieved.

Yeah.And John, I thought their goalkeeper in particular, the guy who went from a few thousand Instagram followers to 30, 40 million, whatever.I mean, you know, and then retired at the end, having not lost a game in the World Cup.I mean, an amazing performance by those guys and particularly by that keeper.

Incredible.That has to be the plus side from it.There was a lot of kind of arguments about Kate Birdie being in it and other teams expanding the World Cup.That's got to be the biggest plus from it.One really good story from them, but also him.He was around the FIFA boys at the end of it.

And the response he got from people around his stadium was incredible.Like they absolutely loved him.And listen, it's put him on the map now as well.He's out of contracts for any clubs looking for a goalkeeper.

Well, just for his social media support alone, the Opta came out with...

Well, if you measure his worth by his followers, his peers would have him at Liverpool.

Opta came out with their team of the tournament.I guess it was probably fairly predictable in most positions.I don't know if we've got it here.Yeah, can you guys see that?

I can't see it, no.

Oh, you can't see it, OK.Yeah.can see it, Simon, can't you?

Yeah, yeah, I can, yeah.

Yeah, I mean, it's fairly predictable, I think.I mean, John, who would your standout players be for this tournament, do you think?If you're thinking about goalkeeper, defence, midfield, strikers, give me a few names that you would put in the mix.

Standout, I would have Vezina in for me, maybe the Spain goalkeeper.Rodri has to be in, Bellingham.

Yeah.

Bape, Elisa, I thought was excellent.Yeah, they're the obvious ones for me.

Who were the best defenders for you?

I thought Kukurea was excellent the whole way through.I did, yeah.Actually.

I mean, if I'm a Chelsea fan watching Kukurela in that World Cup, yeah, you got £50 million for him, but you've lost one of the best defenders in the Premier League by miles.

I said this when we lost him.When he got his move to Madrid, I said, I'm really disappointed.I think, one -on -one defensively, we spoke about the battles he had with Saka.I think everything I see as a Chelsea fan now, I see in him as a defender.Aggressive, in people's faces, wanting to win.He cares.

I see him around the training ground.He's a winner, and we've lost the battle.you know, a World Cup winner.He's an incredible player.Really good person.And Mourinho is going to love him at Real Madrid.

He's right up his street.

I think any team would love him.I'd love him at Arsenal.Every time he's played against us, he's been like that.It's not like he turned it on for the World Cup.That is who he is. I think he's a big, big loss to Chelsea.Chelsea have, though, John, signed Morgan Rodgers.

£117 million for Morgan Rodgers.Does that make sense to you?

Don't worry about it.Don't worry about it, Piers.It's circular money.I mean, the big thing is not the transfer fees, because they go on your balance sheet, and they depreciate over a period of your contract, right?And if you flip a player out halfway through his contract, you can still make a kind of profit.It's the wages that you need to be concerned about.

So I've lost my sort of rancor and agitation.probably because I don't have to write cheques anymore, about transfer fees, because I just think they're circular money.Is anybody worth 100 million pounds?Is Tom Cruise worth 100 million pounds to make a film?I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder.Chelsea can pay seemingly with impunity or any sort of governance, whatever they seem to want for players.

And it's difficult to argue.that a player like Elliot Anderson is worth £116 million.It's difficult to argue that this kid is worth £115 million, Morgan Rodgers.By that logic, you've got to be paying £250 million for Erling Haaland, haven't you?

John, Arsenal were supposedly in for Morgan Rodgers and were nearly getting it over the line, blah, blah, blah.Suddenly we wake up and Chelsea have done it, but they've done it for this gigantic sum, for a guy who wasn't starting really for England.It's certainly not a first choice, I don't think.You know, what do you feel about that?I mean, obviously, he's gone to Chelsea.He's a good player, but with that and the Elliott Anderson transfer, can you get your head around the numbers?

The numbers are inflated.That's not the player's issue for me.He's obviously joined a club that's got the potential of winning the Champions League and has history of winning the Champions League.So, hence, he's gone for us rather than the red side of London, Piers.But, listen, to be honest, if you're him, you would have probably gone Arsenal.So the numbers must have been pretty big.

But I'm excited to have him.I think he's a good player.I think he's going to give us better than what we've got at the moment.I think he's a good addition to the squad.And I'm actually excited to see him.

Players like this, they now have the option to go, you know, they can pretty well call the shots for a large number of clubs around the world.Looking at the world football right now, JT, How much would money come into play and how much would the chance to actually go and win things override that?

For me personally you mean?

Yeah, now in today's environment.if you were playing now.

It's really difficult to say.I was at Chelsea from the age of 14, so you end up falling in love with your football club and the support.You have a rapport and a relationship like no other.So I can't really speak for probably 95 % of the players that are probably looking at this differently to the way I felt.I never wanted to leave Chelsea.Saying that, we had an owner that had big and deep pockets.

I was offered contracts that were the equivalent of other clubs around me. and I was, you know, fairly paid that I probably wouldn't have got any more money elsewhere.So, it's a really kind of probably unfair question to ask me without being too loyal.I love Chelsea and Chelsea's my club.So, for me, I don't get it.But if you've not got that relationship like I had, I also can understand it because I have to say, once you finish, you're finished, you're out the game.And these boys are very young when you do finish.

So, for me, go and see.

If someone like Real Madrid, had come in for you and offered you more money than Chelsea were paying.Would you have gone to someone like Madrid?

No, I wouldn't have.It wasn't about the money for me.It wasn't about...I just...Listen, again, I was really lucky at Chelsea.

Put the money to one side.I cover that stature.

No, I never wanted to leave Chelsea.I don't know how else I can answer it.It's really...Listen, I spoke about the supporters early on in this podcast about the relationship.And also at times when I was shit or had off -field problems, it's those guys that sung my name And when you go out, you don't forget stuff like that.I think football is different now.

It's viewed differently by players.For me, I never forget in my deepest and darkest moments, those supporters were there for me.And it was for me going, I'm going to give everything back.And that was my way of doing that, was being loyal.

You know, I always use the Sol Campbell test, which is, as an Arsenal fan, I absolutely loved it when he crossed the north line.divide and came to Arsenal and helped us win a number of trophies.But I do wonder what he thinks in those quiet nights now when he's so hated by all the fans that worshipped him at Tottenham and always will be.And I just wondered, Simon, do you reckon he regrets that?Do you think players that do that regret it or not?

Well, I've met...I've met soul a few times and I wonder what he's thinking full stop.But no, I don't think he I don't I don't think he does.I think soul and john will know him relatively well as well is a very single minded character and has very single minded views.I saw him the other day, talking on one of the other shows making no sense about the potential job and not in the forest.I think soul is an island.

I think he's very comfortable.I think there's something to be admired about single mindedness.Yeah, whether it's blind single mindedness, or or, you know, or ignorance.He doesn't really want to look at it.But I don't think Saul Campbell spends any time dwelling over the distaste and hatred that the Tottenham fans have for him, except sometimes, I suspect, when it comes right on top and he's physically confronted by someone that's spitting bile at him.But, you know, you, of course, have your view on it, Piers, because you were the winners in that particular equation.

Yeah, and listen, I agree with you.And I also think that football clubs spit out players you know in a heartbeat if it suits them.So I never ever begrudge players who do that kind of thing.Although actually I still have a grudge about Robin Van Persie going to Man United.That did piss me off irrevocably.There's no way back to that.

And do you know what he did?Do you know what he did?He sent me a double -sided framed photograph of himself Nobody cares!In his Man United shirt celebrating with the hashtag tears for peers, love Robin.Signed personally, sent it to me at the end of the season when he won the title for United.I mean that was sickening.

We lost out on the title that year.of it.I remember.I'm as disappointed as you.

Yeah, I remember.Guys, that's it.We've had a fantastic run, World Cup Uncensored.Thank you both very much for doing this.It's proven incredibly popular.As you know, the last episode got nearly a million views.

I'm trying to pretend it wasn't because I wasn't on it.But it showed the strength of the brand and it's fantastic.And you guys have been fantastic.So I hope you enjoyed it as much as I have.I know we're in... what they call secret talks about doing more stuff together, which I hope we can get.But for now, for World Cup Uncensored, thank you both very much, because it's been brilliant.

It is, Simon.I've loved it.Thanks, guys.

Well done.John, you've been brilliant, John, by the way.You both have.We all have.We're all brilliant.And I think it's that humility that has really bonded us and touched the nation.

So...Thank you very much, guys.All the best.Cheers, guys.Take care.