Presiden Prabowo Menjawab (PART 1): Serangan Aktivis, BOP, MBG, dan Dampak Perang | Mata Najwa

To all the viewers from all over the world and from overseas, because I am sure that this event is watched by our people from overseas, we meet again in the President Prabowo Responds event. This is the second event out by President Prabowo. And this time we are with President Prabowo, with six people who were invited to discuss and ask questions with the President.

Thank you, Mr. President, for accepting us here, some experts who can be said to be par excellence, Mr. President. So, people who are among the top in their respective fields. And thank you very much, Mr. President, for accepting us here to have a discussion and question and it with the President. And maybe because these are people of excellence, they may represent the deepest knowledge of the Indonesian people.

And maybe they also have a deep knowledge of digging, Mr. President. So, I think you're ready, Mr. President, to be asked by them. Maybe later I will introduce each of them to my family members at home. If you are familiar with the guests on this roundtable.

This roundtable is a historical table. Because there are many strategic decisions in the Republic that were born from this table. On the right, Mr. President, there is Ms. Eno, her full name is Ms. Retno Pinasti, she was a journalist for Voice of America, and now she is a PM Red in Liputan 6.

SCTV and Indosiar. PM Red in SCTV and Indosiar. Mrs. Retno has been here several times, this is not the first time. Indonesia. Nulus, how many times has he attended the event of Mr. Billy Dahl, an Indonesian from Ohio? So if we ask him, who is his smartest student? His answer never changes, Rizal Malarange.

So if we look at the other names, it's still Rizal Malarange.

Where is he now? He's still in Columbus. I'm 86 years old. Ohio?

Ohio State University. Ohio State University. The place of JD Fence. JD Fence.

JD Fence.

He's from Kentucky but he went to college in Columbus, Ohio.

He's from Kentucky. Ohio State University. Ohio State University. The largest state university in the world. criminal mind, Pak. Oh yes? San Francisco State. San Francisco State. San Francisco State.

Criminology?

Criminal mind.

Criminal mind for forensic investigators. Okay.

That's psychology?

Applied psychology. Oh, applied psychology. Faculty of psychology.

San Francisco.

San Francisco.

San Francisco.

San Francisco. People are like thieves. They have to be checked.

They have to be checked how they play the criminal. Permission, Mr. President. I will continue. This is Mr. Muhammad Faisal, Director Center of Reform on Economic Indonesia, CORE.

CORE. CORE.

CORE, the Executive Director of Belialus Fair. So, this is a critical issue, sir. So, you have to be prepared.

Where are you from?

Australia, sir.

Australia? UQ, Queensland.

Queensland.

PhD in Australia.

PhD in Queensland, Master in Melbourne University.

Oh, okay.

Next. Have you been to America? and Master in Melbourne Union. Oh, OK. Now,

Next.

Have you been to America?

I've been in America for about seven years. But I went to school in England. So you've been to the West? I'm a student at Melbourne Law School. Oh, Melbourne Law School. Thank you. And lastly, former minister, finance and former head of DKPE, Mr. Dede Katib Basri.

You're now at Harvard, right? Yes. You're teaching at Harvard. Maybe you'll be...

Where's your PhD from?

I'm from the Australian National University.

ANU.

So, this is it, sir. People will discuss with you, ask all kinds of things, maybe from the lightest to the heaviest.

But, sir, I also want to ask you, maybe later I can open it, so I don't miss the opportunity to ask, sir.

I want to accept the opportunity to ask you. I hope you will accept it. Well, if I observe you, you have been talking about food and energy conservation for more than 20 years. And during a war like this, I feel like you have gained some relevance.

In the past, we would just go in and out of the right-wing when we talked about food security and energy security. And this is also a confession of sin, I'm sorry. I was bullied by you in 2019, when you said,

we have to prepare for war, the world will be at war.

In 2019?

Yes, you said that. You were in FIAK, right?

Yes.

So I confess my sins, And I don't believe it. But it turns out that in 2022, there was a war. In 2023, there was a war. In 2025, there was a war. Now in 2026, there is a much bigger war. Now the question is, you talk and think about food and energy because you predict war or because of nationalism?

I think it's because of common sense and reality. So I always think about finding the basics, the essency of the problem. The essence of our country, the essence of our life, the essence of human civilization. First, food. It's a basic need.

If you look at psychology, it's a mess. Basic need. First, safety from weather, wild animals, and other human threats. Then, water and food. Then, the higher levels of activities. to And also, my background as a judge and a judge, pushed me to continue learning history.

And there I saw, the common denominator of the problem of the Khazazis was always food.

Yes, right?

War, the beginning of war between human groups and human groups, is food war. War in areas where there are many animals hunting, or water resources war, or land war that in that land, in that valley, there are many, many cattle that like to eat there. So the grass is called, I want to control that valley. If there is another race, it's a war. So that's what influenced me. So I see, if we want to be independent, we have to guarantee food sources.

That's also what was said by Bung Karno. When he was the leader of Indonesia and just became independent, he was actually concerned about food, agriculture. He was the one who created the IPB. He always said, the hungry stomach cannot wait.

Yes.

So that's the truth. So at that time, I had a different view from the group that thought, oh, with globalization, uh, a group of people who think that with globalization, efficiency, we can buy anything from anywhere.

But it turns out we can't. One thing is also, the development of science and technology makes our earth actually smaller. If 200 years ago,

the war in Europe had no effect on us. Right? The British and the Germans the French and the... Now, war is everywhere.

It has an impact. I can feel it. The war in Ukraine. The food prices are rising. Because Ukraine produces... wheat. The largest corn. Russia too. I'm gonna like do yeah, kinda okrin behind still and doom and doom

Jagung enter bizarre Russia yoga, you know

So it's booming and smoking kitchen the world gets smaller. Yeah because of technology

Kita interconnected

Kajarian is an auto impact. What can I do? Come on, man?

Ha parang e nuclear Apalagi nuclear, yeah It's happening in one place, but it's affecting everywhere. Especially nuclear.

Especially nuclear.

I think that's it, Pak Hasan. Yes, yes.

So, did you think that there would be a war 20 years ago? Oh, like this. Sad to say, that indeed

human nature Sad to say, to War is destructive. We understand that war is very evil. War is destructive.

We must avoid war at all cost.

But if we are too naive, too good, we are not ready for war, we don't want to learn war, we don't want to equip ourselves for war, we will be destroyed. That's the history of the world. That's what we know now as the Tukidides law. The strong will do what they can. The weak suffer what they must. The strong will do what they must. The weak will suffer.

That has become a kind of adagium.

The law of nature.

2,500 years. Tukidides is a Greek historian who wrote a book 2,500 years ago. He told a story about the war between Sparta and Athens. But that's a lesson that is taught everywhere. If I'm not mistaken, it's one of the must-read books for almost everyone who wants to be a general in the advanced military. Learn Tukidides.

The strong will do what they can. So, there's another lesson from another historian, a Romanian historian, Vegetius, around the same, 2500 years. Apparently from there, writings about war started to be written. Vegetius, he gave a lesson, Sikh vis pacem, para belum. Sikh vis pacem, if you want to be in peace, prepare for war.

What we see now, we are talking about politics, I don't follow politics, but if we look at the last war that is going on, Iran versus America and Israel, we have to admit that Iran has been preparing for a long time. And he himself said, we have been preparing for this war for decades. He was in the embargo, he was in the sanction. the There are many pros and cons about his regime and so on. But he was brave and ready to fight against a very large force.

Yes.

And he was defending. What day was it? 17th? 17th. He was attacking too, sir. Not just defending. Yes, but he was attacking while being attacked. No, I mean he had that ability.

So, in 47 years, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah to thank all of our friends, representatives, and friends. I would like to thank you. This is an honor for me. We should start with a light question, Mr. President, because it's getting heavy. So that it will be a long night. So that it will be a light question.

There are many world issues. You also have a passion for geopolitics. Not to mention the issues in the country. The question that is perhaps not less important is how the daily process, the focus of history, history that is moving too fast, takes distance and relaxes, relaxes.

Because if Churchill, for example, I know it's a war, but I need to rest so I can think better. Colonel Reagan, sleep, same in the afternoon, read comic and support the army. What kind of a provost are you? In terms of distance and... I'm honest, I think sleep is important. But my technique is a bit different. I can sleep anywhere.

Anywhere, anytime. Maybe this is the knowledge can sleep in a plane. I go to work, 10-15 minutes, I sleep. For me, 15 minutes is charging.

So it's more power there.

Especially 20 minutes. My ideal actually is 30 minutes. So sometimes between meetings, I ask for a half-hour break. I sleep. At night, I was a night. So, sometimes,

I slept at 1 o'clock. But, at 3 o'clock, I woke up again. Why? This is the problem. Technology, right?

There is YouTube.

Right? You also follow YouTube? Of course, I have to. What was the last thing that happened? We are 4 hours apart. From the Middle East. 3 hours.

And from America, it's only a few hours. So I have to follow what happened. And that's what made me always a bit up to date Begitu

Yes, I ingat what they do study Singapore Shangri-la dialogue Not gonna say what I guess on young tiga Say bongun. She'll book a YouTube jumpy go de Singapore So, usually at 3 o'clock, I wake up and open YouTube. At 3 o'clock in Singapore, if I'm not mistaken, in Washington DC,

at 3 in the morning, it's 3 in the afternoon. Around 3 in the afternoon, at Washington DC, at that time President Biden was just talking about something, about, if I'm not mistaken, about Palestine or something. Because I read it right away, at 9.10 PM, I was the first one to deliver my speech at 9.10 PM to the President Biden. I'm over... It's like the blessing of the last three nights.

So, that's it. Winston Churchill could do it, because of the tempo in the 40s. Yes, there was no YouTube back then. Yes, the 40s, 50s... Yeah, before YouTube. And his development was like that. But he was great. He was right.

I thought he was right. So, when I was in the army, it was like this. There was a phenomenon, and we were often we were often rejected by other nations,

especially the western nations. Western nations, white skinned nations, consider Indonesians, the natives, as lazy. There are writings in their writings. When we toured their islam, toured to villages, We always see Pribumi sleeping. What time does he sleep?

He sleeps at 11 or 12 noon. At 12 noon, the sun rises. Who is the one who goes to the paddy field? This is not a matter of laziness. This is a knowledge from Nenu Monyo. 12 PM, the sun was rising. Who's the one who went to the paddy field? This is not a matter of laziness.

This is the wisdom of our ancestors. We were taught, I was a young boy, I was in the army, I was taught to stop at 12 PM. We were in the army, at 12 PM we stopped. At 11 PM, sometimes in all the ashrams, the black flag came out.

This is the peak of heat. If we were outside, heat stroke. So, to the wisdom of our ancestors, if we work at 11 o'clock, 12 o'clock,

we will die.

Heat stroke. So, if the Dutch came,, the foreigner sleeps, he avoids it. But he doesn't see the foreigner. He wakes up at 4 o'clock, he's already working in the field at 5 in the morning. That's how it is.

Then his wife brings food, the food is at 9 or 10. Then he came back. He slept in the afternoon. Sleeping in the afternoon is survival instinct.

After the culture.

Yes. Survival instinct. I was once visited by someone. When I was out of the army. I was in business. I was visited by someone.

I don't know, maybe an Englishman, or a banker, beautiful suit, you know. He came to my office, and he made a joke. He said, he made a joke to the Indonesian people. Yeah, I don't know, I think you Indonesians, your hobby is sleeping. He said, I'm lucky I'm retired.

What's the problem? He said, you know, every time you asked your driver where he lives? Do you know some of them live in Sukabumi? To go to Jakarta, he wake up three o'clock in the morning, take a bus, the bus is three hours, to get to your house at seven o'clock or eight o'clock. So he doesn't know why.

Survival instinct too. The important thing is when he drives for you, he's not sleeping, right? So that person is smart. There is an opportunity to chance, I'll give it to them. This is it. Sometimes, it's cultural arrogance. You live, everything is air-conditioned, air-conditioned car, air-conditioned office, air-conditioned hotel.

So, maybe, I heard that the healthiest people wake up at 9, 4, 5, 6. But you can't update the news at midnight. I don't know. We are news junkies. We are already exposed.

What's happening?

Young people nowadays are too dependent on gadgets. They say there's a the gadget. Yes, it's very dependent. And they say there's a gadget detox.

Yes.

There's a research. You can't bring gadgets anywhere. No, you can't. The research is in the US and Europe now. On average, they are exposed to 8 hours a day.

That's a long time in your life.

8 hours a day. Yes. That's a long time in your life. It was real. Even though I have a staff, when I'm sitting,

what am I doing?

I'm doing this for hours. He's good, he has a tech. He can send me amazing stuff.

That's a great technology.

That's great.

Can we bring in another moderator? Maybe later, we'll go around. I think he's a bully. I think he's a bully. Moderator, can we have one more person who is more serious or change? Maybe later we will go around. Moderator, please follow.

Is this Mbak Rena?

The second one is Mbak Rena.

There is a feeling that the second one is Mbak Rena.

It's already leaked. I'm not lying in this arrangement, Mbak Rena. Now, we will give the second chance to Mbak Rena to deliver questions to the President. Oh. I can imagine that this topic will be discussed a lot about geopolitics and economy. But I will leave it to the experts here. I would like to quote your statement a few days ago, during the first anniversary.

At that time, you gave a statement, I have a quote from him, he said, don't play with me anymore, this is a fake report, a fun report, so that you can use your brain.

I give you a warning, about this, can you give me the context, sir? What is this fake report about? By whom? How often? And how did you realize What do you think is the connection between this fake report and the others?

How often? And how did you realize that you have received some fake data? Because the data errors in the report can be fatal. You can make a wrong priority, you can allocate the wrong resources, especially since you are a military leader.

At least you were a military leader before. And in the military, if you make a wrong data, you will be put to death. My question is, are you ready, are you ready to receive unpleasant reports? That's the first question.

Then, I also want to know what efforts you have made to cross-check the truth of the reports that you received. Did you, for example, look for a second opinion? Or did you try to find facts on the ground? Maybe you were a journalist, or you may have seen complaints from the people on social media, or maybe there was a plan, or there was already a plan, maybe you opened a special channel for the people to watch?

And have you been watching... You said you watch YouTube at 3 o'clock. Have you been watching press, like us, and the third thing I want to know is who is your friend in the discussion? Because, sir, are there still non-bureaucratic figures, sir, who have been your friends in the discussion? A kind of West Wing. I don't know if the SP still functions as a West Wing.

In decision-making, we need to discuss the matter. I want to know who plays the role of devil's advocate for you. It's a long question. Three questions. But it's one topic. Okay, I'll answer it. devil's advocate selama ini untuk bapak panjang ya mas moderator

tiga ya? tapi satu topik

baik jadi kita ini apalagi saya saya selalu katakan saya sudah lama jadi orang Indonesia jadi budaya ABS ini asal bapak senang asal ibu senang, laporan palsu ini sudah I think the ABS, as you know, has already made a culture in all institutions.

This is part of our problem. If we give the wrong information, the decision is not good. And this is the problem. So we have to have a mindset to be vigilant in every report. And it's true, we should be willing and brave to receive the worst reports.

And I really like to monitor,

posting, podcast, which even hurts me to watch. Because I think, even though he attacks in a bad way, and sometimes I take the conclusion, Even though he attacked me in a bad way, and sometimes I take it as a compliment, he's just being motivated.

But for me, it's actually what makes me more confident. So I actually actually less educated. But I was more confident. Then I checked. MBG was attacked, I immediately checked.

I called the head of the BGN. And I kept cross-checking. I sent my people to check.

I thought if I'm not mistaken, I sent my people to check.

I think if I'm not mistaken, maybe I can check this right away, from tens of thousands of kitchens, we've closed more than a thousand.

More than a thousand?

Right? Yes, the data is there, more than a thousand. I have a head representative, one mother, Nani, she was very fierce. She kept on attacking.

In 2030?

Yes, in 2030.

There was also SP1 and SP2.

In the spring of 2020. In the spring of 2030. SP1 and SP2. Total is Rp. 1,200. The one that has been suspended is Rp. 1,030. And what we are doing now is certification. So if you want to survive in the kitchen for more than a few months, you have to pass the certification of cleanliness, food safety, check the water quality,

whether the water is safe, whether the water is cooked, and then the water pump. All of these are the criteria. There is a standardization. Yes, standardization.

And if it's not done, it's closed. It's suspended. It's up to you. Then we give the a free phone number. Anyone can check. And the coordinates of the kitchen are known by the people around them.

So anyone, mothers, parents, school heads, they can come in. And they can go in and they can complain. So, indeed, good reports are only good reports, that is a bad culture. And that is perhaps the culture of Indonesia, perhaps the intention is good, Mungkin niatnya baik, tidak mau menyusahkan pimpinan. Mungkin niatnya baik. Contoh, saya kasih contoh. Contoh zaman saya di tentara. Saya waktu itu komandan Kopassus.

Saya sudah jendral kalau nggak salah ya. Saya inspeksi ke Batu Jajar, an educational center, which I used to be a commander. I looked around, and at one point, I saw a helicopter from afar. The helicopter was training.

Fast-roping training, going up and down with a rope. Going up and down, up and down. One day, the helicopter stopped. It stopped for a while. I asked the commander there, why did the helicopter stop?

Oh, it was a break for food. So, I didn't ask any more. The next day, I was in Cijantung. There, in the army, there was always a daily report. So, if it was Tuesday or Sunday, I was given a report. This year, this happened.

I got a report. At the Special Education Center, Batu Jajar, at 13.08, there was an accident. From a helicopter, this and that. The plane was hit by an accident. I was here to help. But I was not informed. Do you understand?

Yes, I do.

What did you do? I called the commander. I asked him why he didn't call me. He said it was not good. I told him that's not what I meant. I told him. That's the intention. But I think, next time, don't do that.

Just let me know what's going on. Maybe I can help. So, this is a problem. So, when I was in Nantara, the first report, Sir,

the results are good for one year. This and that. I chased him. Is you sure about this? Don't make me feel bad. I'm holding this. I'm responsible for this. No, sir. I can do this.

I can audit this. That's the basis of what I said. We have to have a new culture. This culture must... We have to have a new culture. We have to face reality. We have to be ready to accept bad things. We have to be ready to be mocked.

We have to be ready to be suspected. It's okay. I learned a lot. A good leader should not be afraid to face difficulties. A good leader should be able to see the difficulties and chase them. Rush to the problem. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure.

I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure.

I'm not sure. But there are people who criticize with bad intentions and motivations. Do you understand? They criticize precisely to cause hatred, suspicion, or anxiety. In my opinion, it's not good. It's not good. It that's good. For example, I consider the information from the field to be from children.

One time I was surprised. Maybe a year ago. I was shown that there are children in Nias. I remembered the name, the toilet. I remembered their names and I knew. Do you hear their voices? They were screaming.

They called my name.

We were in the flood when we went to school. We asked the teachers to help us.

We were tortured to go this path. Because we are tortured when we go to school.

Children, we go into the river every day, wet, sit in the class, wet, swim again, wet. That's life.

That's life.

All the children, we work on it. We have to answer our children. Now we are forced to stay in the village. President of the Republic of Indonesia,

this country is just formed. 77 bridges of B, 59 bridges of R, and 82 bridges of P. the Yes, sir. Now, I sleep more comfortably. Because the children of the small villages no longer need to cross the river in a dangerous situation for their safety.

Yamisa, her name is. I asked Yamisa. Her child is brave, plain. But he asked for more, right? It's not enough to cross the of Yamisa? He answered, he was just a kid, he was brave. But he asked for more, he said there weren't enough bridges.

He asked for more.

He asked for MBG. Our village hasn't got MBG yet, can you imagine? But I was brave.

How many bridges are there?

What I was sad about, if you heard that, I asked, what grade is Yamisa in? He said, I'm in 12th grade. I was told, our parents were poor. I wanted to study, but they were poor.

I couldn't afford it. I told them, whatever happens, I'll pay for their tuition.

Right?

I had a bit of a school for the child. Yes. Because I have a philosophy of life from the past. If you can help many people, help many people. If you can't help many people, help a few people. If you can't help a few people, help one person.

If you can't help one person, don't make it difficult for others. That's my philosophy. I teach everyone. If you see someone in need, stop. What can you do to help? So, my answer is, all the criticisms are good, but if the criticism is based on hatred, and why do they exist and don't have data, I think that's not good.

That's my philosophy. But I still accept it, I think it's good for me.

Still watched?

Still watched, but if I see that it's useless, I'll leave it. But I'll catch it first. Who played the role of devil's advocate? So, people around me already understand that what I want to know is, earlier, a reason, a reasoning that that is contrary to my ideas. And I think that is the right approach. If the leaders gather their opinions, then everyone will agree. But if I say, what's the problem? What's the solution?

What's the difficulty? What is the solution? Like the bridge. Actually, sorry, the village funds have been allocated to the village. And the hanging bridges, the price is 300 million, 400 million, 500 million.

Let's say the 100 meters long bridge, it's worth 800 million. And they receive 1 billion for a year. They can do it. They can do it for 3 or 4 years. Even if the bridge is good.

But, I don't want to ask where the village funds are. The children were screaming. And they said, Mr. Prabowo is it okay? He shouted, I have to answer. If I can do something.

Is that right? Alhamdulillah. Now I'm making a bridge sadgah. Besides the planned area, he reported that the most affected

is approximately 3,000. But, God willing, by the beginning of 2027, the number will be 3,000.

All provinces?

All provinces.

National.

Okay, that's enough for now.

We will move on to the economic topic. It's a bit more difficult. Please. Please, Mr. Dede Basri. I know. I'm sorry, but this is a discussion. You don't have to keep saying, Mr. President, Mr. President. It's not good for you.

You're like, Mr. Prabowo.

Please, sir. This is outside the hour, right?

I'll open this.

No one dares to.

Our words won't come out.

I don't know. It don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.

I don't know.

I don't know.

I don't know. I don sometimes touched. That's right. What do you want to study? I want to study, sir. I want to be a doctor. But my parents can't afford it. I've told my staff.

The point is, he has to go to school. He can't. His parents can't afford it. That's my motivation. We have to create suatu bangsa Indonesia yang anak orang paling miskin pun harus bisa sekolah. Sebenarnya itu undang-undang dasar 45.

Saya lanjutkan, Pak. Jadi saya melakukan penelitian mengenai social unrest, Pak. Yeah. the middle class. With a hint of a sense. It happened in Latin America, in Southeast Asia, including Indonesia. Our latest data shows that throughout 2019 to 2024,

the middle class is declining. If we look at the unemployment rate, it is true that our unemployment rate is declining. But now the highest unemployment rate is those who are educated.

Whether it's a university, high school, or high school. This is a new problem, not only unique in Indonesia, but in the whole world. Because economic growth creates jobs, but it's informal. Informal, Pak. 80% of the jobs created in 2019 to 2024 are informal, Pak. And the salary is around $120 a month. You can imagine, they are educated, they are young, they have information, YouTube, all kinds.

This can then become the potential of social unrest. In the 90s, the issue of inequality was perhaps a joke to people, but with social media, it has changed into a daily reality show, sir. Because it can see how people live. Well, that's why I'm concerned,

if the creation of our workplace is informal, this can be a problem in the future. What do you think the President will do foreign I am doing this. That's why I said when I was the president, I didn't talk about national development anymore. I talked about national transformation. What happened was deindustrialization. The only way. MENTAH. Kita harus mengolah bahan mentah itu menjadi turunan-turunan-turunan produk industri yang bernilai tinggi. Disini nanti bisa anak-anak muda yang pintar-pintar bekerja. Create good job. Saya I will open a car factory. Why should we be the market for other people's cars?

Why? Because of the will. With all due respect, Korea. What is the natural resource of Korea? Check it out. We have all the natural resources to make cars.

But it's been tens of years since we started making cars. We have timber, we have box sheet, box sheet for aluminum, processed into aluminum, aluminum becomes a car. But we don't make a box-seat. Japan doesn't have a box-seat.

They make the best car. This is what we have to do. That's why I made a book, Transformasi Bangsa. I said, the strategy of transformation of the nation, we have to transform. There is no other way. For us to industrialize, we have to do hundreds of factories.

That's what we call the tree of factories. That's what we call an industry tree. And we have mapped out, we have a plan actually, an industry tree for all the important communities that we have. Coconut. Kelapa, kelapa saja ternyata di negara manapun dianggap suatu miracle, miracle crop. Minyak VCO, virgin coconut oil, itu dianggap anti-cancer. Di Amerika, saya punya temen-temen, general-general Amerika,

dia punya, dia minum tablet, virgin coconut oil, which was made into powder, into a tablet. He drank that every meal. The price of coconuts is high now. We only have one or two coconut factories. All this time, we've been exporting We import Kelapa Gelondongan. Kelapa. Almost all communities. We have the best coffee. But we import Starbucks.

Nestle. Nescafe. Right? We have the best chocolate. But we, sorry, import, we eat KitKat.

We eat Cadbury, right? This is what we have to do. So, the answer is industrialization. What we have now is actually to win time. To win time. Win time means we have to eliminate poverty.

That middle class is declining, I am the one who is expressing it. I am the one who is expressing it everywhere. That is what is shocking me. I was proud too

7 years of growth, 5%. I know, look. Growth, but the poor people increase The middle class is less There's something wrong with the system So you're exactly correct

We have to industrialize And now it's not even industrialization Now it's science STEM

Right?

For example We have a 100% shortage If I'm not mistaken, 120,000 to 140,000 doctors. 140,000 doctors, that's not enough. And we produce, we graduate every year, at most 9,000 to 10,000 doctors every year. That's great. That means we have to wait 14 years,

and then we'll be full. After 14 years, the elderly will be retired. So we will never, if we don't take drastic action. That's why I plan to build

10 new universities, 10 new doctoral faculties, and 10 new hospital research centers. To speed up this. May I say something? The problem with our industry is competitiveness. Because here, it's simple, money is not a problem, but the problem is money.

Because the problem is created by the bureaucracy. Are you willing to regulate it? Because of the bureaucracy, there are so many problems. Are you willing to regulate it? Of course, I have to. I have been regulated. The fertilizer problem,

I found 145 regulations. This is an example. One of my achievements as a government official, among others, is the spraying of fertilizer. 145 regulations. So there are 41 laws, 23 government regulations,

6 presidential regulations, 11 rules in the Ministry of Agriculture, 6 in the Ministry of Food and Agriculture, so in total there are 145. So from the factory owned by, up to the farmers, if I'm not mistaken, there should be how many signatures? The governor should have signatures.

No, first, if I'm not mistaken, there should be 14 ministries with signatures. Then the governor with signatures, then the regent with government, the minister, the minister, the minister, the minister, the minister, the minister, the minister, the minister, the minister, the minister, the minister, the minister, the minister, the minister, the minister, the minister, the minister, the minister, the minister, the minister, the minister, the minister, the We have to cry. We have to remove the 145 regulations. From the factory to the police station. No need to use cards. You can buy it with KTP.

You can buy the letter. So deregulation is very important. And this bureaucracy is all logic. We have reduced the laws, we have improved the laws, we have improved the president's regulations. He's making up more technical regulations.

Tech, tech.

This is all logic. Can I say something? This is very important. Just one thing. You said it's a new car industry. So far, one of the successful

car industry, Toyota, Kijang, Innova, those are the components in Indonesia, Alphansa, even we export. Are we going to strengthen or or are you going to create something totally new?

There's already a way. Well, Toyota is still not going towards electricity.

Okay, electricity, right?

Electricity.

A new ecosystem.

I want total electricity.

Why? A new ecosystem. I want total electricity.

Why? I want electricity from solar. Why? Because if we want to use combustion engine cars, gasoline or solar cars, it still depends on the import.

So the car industry needs a new ecosystem, not the one that... Cars and motorcycles. We've made a simulation. The savings are amazing. So if our strategy is right, if we have the will,

God willing, we can revive industrialization. You're not thinking of just one or two steps, you're thinking of 100 steps. No, no, I was thinking of 100 steps, but the point is, what is the basic problem? The root of the problem. The point is, we need to overcome. It's true that we need good quality jobs for the educated. But we also need massive jobs for the common people.

Ordinary people who want to live well, that's what we need too. So that's why we have to, in my opinion, we have to be multi-frank. We have to work on all sectors simultaneously. It's hard, a lot of people are asking us to do it, Indonesia won't succeed, but I'm optimistic, I'm sure we will succeed. That's the difference. If we're sure we'll succeed, God'm sure we will succeed. That's the difference.

If we're sure we will succeed, God willing, we will succeed. That's my experience. But everything is based on reality. Reality. If we don't have anything, we have everything. The problem is we can't manage everything.

Now we have to change. That's why, one of the things I said earlier, all the wrong games, we have to leave them.

Do you want to talk about economics again?

Please. Mas Faisal. I can talk about art, too. I like to talk about economics. Please. Mas Faisal. You can talk about art. I like to talk about football.

Mas Faisal, please. Thank you, Mr. Moderator. Thank you, Mr. President. Mr. Prabowo, this is the first time I've been invited here to have a direct dialogue with you. Actually, when you mentioned the issue of industrialization and hillarization, I wanted to ask about that.

Because at the Corp, we have done a lot of research on industrial issues, including EV and also the smelter areas. But for the first round, I would like to ask about what isly discussed now. So the impact of the war on our domestic economy. We know that the price of oil has touched 100 dollars per barrel several times. The rupee has also touched 17 thousand per US dollar. So from our own calculations, in the long run,

the ICP of the world's oil price is above USD 80 per barrel, and the exchange rate is around USD 17,000. Indeed, the impact of the expansion of energy subsidies can be more than 100 trillion, just the addition, sir. That means,

if we compare the percentage of GDP, it means that it has already exceeded 3%. I heard from the media that Mr. Prabowo wants to stop that, that the deficit of the State Budget has not exceeded 3%. But the question is, how, sir? Because our concern is that if we can hold on to 3% efficiency, which is the same as last year, 2025, we have witnessed it ourselves, sir, how the impact is. I met with many actors.

What is the impact? I met a lot of actors. What is the impact?

Including in the area, sir. In the area, if you remember, there was a spike in the land, a spike in several other areas. That's because it's hard to find a way out for the area to raise, they have to raise taxes. Because the transfer to the area will be cut, sir. Because of efficiency too. So, is there a way for efficiency that you want to do?

Or maybe there is another way, sir. For example, is there a way to refocus, sir? Including, for example, to divert some of the existing programs that have a lot of budget allocation, including priority programs,

to the posts that are in need of emergency response. Okay, I'll answer.

Yes, sir. Please.

First, please under check, transfer to the area where it is cut and where it is not cut. Yes, if I'm not mistaken, those who are cut. If I'm not mistaken, the cut is also not productive. And I want to explain, when we first did efficiency, we saved 308 trillion from the central bank, most of it. And where did it come from?

From all the logical statements. My belief is that all of the 308, if not cut, is towards corruption. Mr. Muhammad, I will go back to the basics. You are an economist. If we talk about Indonesia's economy, the I-Corps is always the number that comes out. Incremental Capital Output Ratio.

Our I-Corps is 6.5 compared to Korea. They are 4. Singapore is 4. the So, if we look at the numbers, we are 30% more inefficient than Thailand, Malaysia, Philippines 3.6, I want to ask, I want to ask, Mr. Muhammad, what is the difference between us and Filipinos? What is our race? Are we more stupid? Or are we more inefficient?

If I use this as a basis, it means that I come to our APBN, which is 3.7 billion, which is USD 230 billion. First, I have seen that 30% of USD 230 billion is USD 75 billion. This is inefficient. And I have proven that with efficiency, I can save USD 308 trillion. That's the same as USD 18 billion.

There are still many things we can save, Mr. Muhammad. We can save a lot. Let's say we have a ceremonial fee. Every ministry, every body, in all the Indonesian restaurants, there is a fee for the anniversary. I said, that's it. The ceremony is only in the room. We cut the furniture.

Right? The cost of printing and souvenirs, we cut it by 75%. The cost of buying office writing tools, we cut it by 90%. Every office always buys

office writing tools, books, computers, almost every year. The building rentals, we cut it by 90%. Every office always bought writing tools, bought books, computers almost every year. Renting buildings, equipment, holding seminars of all kinds. There was already a ministry office, all the officials wanted to hold seminars outside the city. the problem is there. I told my government, the finance minister reported,

we still have about 100 trillion left. That's one example. So, in my opinion, if we face a crisis, we have to learn from all the efforts. First, we have to reduce consumption. We can reduce consumption.

I see other countries are thinking about working from home. From 5 to 4. Philippines, Pakistan. Then, work from home. We do it when we are in Covid. It's quite successful.

I think we can do that too. Maybe 75% of employees and employees can work from home. Now there is Vicon, there is a lot of technology. 30 years ago, there was none. That's one. We can also, as an example, work from home, we can also... For example, one car cannot accommodate one person. In other countries, one car can accommodate at least four people. So, there are many ways. So, I'm sorry if there is a dramatization. We don't reduce the cost of living. No, we are not reducing the cost of education.

We are not reducing the cost of operations. We are not. I'm sorry, but we are just opening it up. I dare you, don't challenge the central government. There are many costs that should be implemented by the regency and province, but they are not implemented. For example, the bridge.

The village bridge. The people have to scream. The president has to put his hand down. Sorry, there is a village fund. Where is the fund distributed to? Where is the governor? But it's okay, I take responsibility.

So we have to be open, we have to be fair. Too many officials, in my opinion, are inefficient. You see for yourself, we open it up, there is a district government, what is it? Regional government, they bought a Governor's car, what is it? 8M.

Yes, provincial, there is a provincial.

Governor.

I am the president of Indonesia, I use a car, MAU, made make Indonesia. Right? The price is 700 million. Maybe because this is the president, there is anti-bullet, maybe the price is 1M. But not 8M. Let's try to invest all. After that, visit to work, visit to work. the That's what we want. So, we will adjust to this crisis.

And with this crisis, we have to be aware, but we have to take many steps. And it's true that we are in a slightly better position than other countries. One, we have contracts. For this year, we have contracts. And some of the contracts are not from that area. We are from Africa, we are also from America.

And we take the average on average one year. But it's true, if this war lasts long and the price is above 100, we really have to take steps. But this will also up our strategy. From the beginning, my strategy was based on food, energy, and water. We have enough water, alhamdulillah. Many countries are flooded.

There is no water. There is no water. Saudi Arabia does't have water. They live off desalination. From desalination installation, the price is 1 billion. I don't know if they have 7, 8, 10 billion.

But if their enemy destroy 7, 8 78, they are in very bad trouble. Bahrain, Qatar, UAE, the same. There is no water. Even Iran, the water is difficult. We only have water, we manage. Sometimes, the advantage is the water. Right? Because we don't play. We actually, for thousands of years, we years that if it rains, it will definitely flood. But we have to wake up now.

We have to be vigilant. Nature is so good, from the Almighty, don't let us relax. We have to wake up. We have to be tough. I'm going to get a Sunday everything. It's a bang on. We have to be tough. There's a wake up call. But it's an acceleration.

So I'm determined. I've made a political decision. In the shortest time, the slowest time is two years. If possible, we have to have 100 gigawatts of solar energy.

100 gigawatts?

Yes. Now, we can produce 11 gigawatts of solar energy from domestic market. Right now. We still have a diesel power plant with a capacity of 13 gigawatts. So we have to close it. We can't have diesel power anymore. It's too expensive. So I think we can have a 13 gigawatt power plant soon.

So very soon, we will not use diesel or solar for electricity. That is our first saving. But the whole plan is, all our motorcycles will be converted into electric motorcycles. All cars, all trucks, all tractors, must be electric. So, later, the rich people,

who have Lamborghini, Ferrari, you're welcome, you use gasoline, you pay the world price. You want $200, right? You're rich, why? The others, we've done a simulation.

It turns out that the motorist, if he uses electricity, the output is only 20%. 1 in 5. So this is our game changer. This is a game changer. China, China, they alreadygkok, they are the most advanced.

In Tenergah Suria. It was yellow. If I'm not mistaken, it was before the Olympics. Oh, yes.

Before the Olympics.

Smoke.

Smoke, yes. The smoke was yellow during the day. We didn't dare to go out. Now, it's clean.

Clean.

So it's very advanced. It has hydro. We have hydro. Hydro is more expensive and takes longer. We have hygiothermal. It also takes a bit longer.

We have mini-hydro, which is also quite good. But we have, if the solar energy is fast, and we have the advantage, I'm sorry, I'm being teased, this is the president of oil palm. Yes, I'm proud to be the president of the country that produces the largest amount of palm oil. From palm oil, we can produce solar. We can also produce gasoline.

From palm oil, we can produce gasoline.

We can also produce fuel.

Fuel from palm oil. So, we are in a better position than many countries. But it's true, this year we have to be really vigilant. position than many countries. The worst thing is that Iran is defending itself. The way they defend themselves is by closing down the Hormuz. And they have to make the country that attacked them regret it. And their target is BBM, crude oil, 200 dollars.

They say that. But now it's going up and down.

Around 100.

100, 110, 112. Because there are still many other sources. Right? Still. But still, for us it's hard, if it's true. If the experts in my team experts say that it's hard for us to get above 90-95. We've been through three wars.

The first, the second, 1991 and 2003. It wasn't too impactful. The most impactful was the shooting of the OPEC. From 1973 to 1974. Three times in a year. And it was long-lasting. We got. Coal is the cheapest. Coal is cheaper than...

But the environment is bad. But the environment is bad. But it's called a crisis.

I think you want to ask a question.

Please. I'm not sure if I can answer. I'm not sure if I can answer.

I'm not sure if I can answer.

I'm not sure if I can answer. But it's a crisis.

I think Nana wants to ask a question.

Please.

I still want to continue from Mr. Faisal, but I'll move on. Then maybe we can go back. Not only the economy, but also's also a very important issue. An activist from Kontras, sir, named Andri Yunus,

was flushed with water and was seriously injured.

He was burned to almost 20%. His right cornea was also damaged. The police have received direct instructions from the President to investigate this case. I would also like to call on the Minister of Justice, Mr. Pak Yusril, Komnas HAM, and the 3rd DPRK Commission. All of them say that this is not just a criminal act, Mr. President. But it is an attack on democracy and on the protesters.

I would like to know your position. Do you agree with that assessment?

Of course. This is terrorism. Right? It's a criminal act. We have to catch them. We have to arrest them. We have to arrest them. Not only the perpetrators, but also... Who ordered it? Who paid for it?

Including the one who did it, the do it? Who's the one who's paying? Including if it's the state apparatus that's doing it?

Yes, of course. The one that's in a hierarchy? It won't be protected, there won't be impunity? No, there won't be.

You guarantee that, sir? I guarantee it. But the opposite. If it's a provocateur,

not from the government, not from the government, we are clearly from the government. The pattern that has been happening all this time, the terror cases are repeated and never revealed to the one who gives the order. Limited to the perpetrators. Specifically, this is what happened for the past year, there are the French people that you mentioned, the members of the Wartawan Temple, Francisca Cristi Rossana, Tio Ardianto, Ramon Doni Adam, Virindian Aurelio, Sheryl Anavita, Iqbal Danamic, Damani, Zainal Arifid Mohtar. The background of all of them, Mr. President, is different, but the similarity is that all of them are critical of the public. Do you understand that there is a concern that the space for voice is getting narrower?

Do you feel that compared to many countries, are we limiting it? Let's see if we are limiting it. TikTok, fake news, hoax, lies that are being broadcast every day. Let's compare it with other countries. Because what happens is the impact we see. They are the ones who are critical. Yes, but sometimes there are people who say,

we are not children, we have lived long. I'm flag operation. I want to guarantee that I want to build a civilized Indonesia. That's my goal. I want to build a clean government. I want to have a clean police, a clean police, a clean intelligence. You know, I want to ask again, I'm a clean intelligence. I want to ask you again. I'm a victim too.

But I have a big mind. I'm concerned about the people. Food, energy. With the war, the price of food can go up. But I want to ask, this is Ramadan. Is the price of food under control?

I think we are doing a proper investigation. Investigate until the actor is found? Yes, until the actor is found.

I think the President's statement is enough. And, Sir, you said it clearly, there should not be any citizens who are intimidated, who are terrorized, because they criticize the government.

No.

Direct guarantee from the President of the Republic of Indonesia?

If there is a bond, I will do it.

Sir, are you giving time to Polri to investigate this case?

Yes, I am a realistic person and I am a fair person. In terms of capacity, we let them work. But not only Polri, many other institutions also have them work. But not only Polri, other institutions should also work.

Other institutions, including law enforcement? Yes, law enforcement.

Are you open to the idea of forming an independent team to back up this?

We can consider it. We can consider it. As long as it's independent. Independent. Not all of the high school students who have been hated by the government, who got money from abroad. Right?

Right?

If you want to talk about

what's going on, I'll talk about what's going on.

Right? But clearly, tonight, I'm not going to be shut up. I'm going to be shut up. I'm going to be shut up.

But clearly, tonight, we've heard the statement from the president.

The president is very bold.

I want to enforce the law. I want to enforce the law. How do we enforce the law if we let it be like this? If it's from the apparatus. And I want to tell you that our apparatus has many shortcomings. the untouchable. There are institutions that feel they cannot be audited. This is not an easy task.

But I don't want to complain a little bit or to seek sympathy from the people. This is my job. I was appointed to clean up. I am cleaning up the BUMN.

BUMN has always been one of our biggest problems. So, this is an Indonesian problem. Everywhere.

But, believe me, there is no intention from the government, especially the one I lead, to do that. Come on. What is it? Is it true? Our people are not stupid. I want to remind you that until today, the people below are supporting me. Exactly what was said by Mr. Dede said. If the people don't like me, they can go out and protest. But they know that if there is a riot, all the countries will be at a loss. If they want to replace me, they can wait until 2029.

So how many countries are there? Be patient. But what I see, you have to be objective as a figure, that destabilization, disinformation, that's part of being a country. So there are certain countries that have expertise in that. Regime change, color revolution, come on.

You've never read it, you've never seen it, right?

Have you read the criticism that was spread by both the observers, who you call non-patriotic, like the question from Ms. Eno, critiques and critiques and young deal on Tarkan by calling a mat and the possibility that patriotic spurted a deep upper Tanya and I know a total re or a woman among some of the critics are had a pomegranate it was a morning a bermuara paddock a union and to create some change pop resident Yes, there is. It's clear. There is. How do you differentiate that, sir? Which one do you think has already come out of the way, I remember the term you called

it a fire in August, there was a demo, and which one is really something normal?

It was clear in August, it was a fire. He wanted to burn the DPR building. The governor's office. the government's office, the government's institution, if it's going to be burned, just burn it. Make a riot, bring Molotov cocktails. Right?

There's no LSM that's arguing about Molotov cocktails. Oh, many are protesting. Honestly, come on, enough's just open the digital record. Maybe, but in the first round, we will stop it first. No, no, no, just let it be. Just let it be, please.

The President said, let it be.

Oh yes, it's okay, this is an opportunity for me to answer.

Right, sir, thank you for the opportunity.

Is there anyone protesting about the Molotov bomb? Many, Mr. President. Is there any news about the Molotov? There are many. That's not objective.

Is there any news about the DPR building being burnt? There are many news about that. There are many news about that.

There are many people who are angry. I respect that. But burning is criminal.

But the reality is, the, the thievery that was caught yesterday, mostly, it was students. There is a study that says, the biggest since the reform era, the arrests that happened to students and activists, sir. But the provocateur, or anyone who is responsible,

the actor who ordered and so on, it was never revealed, and was later brought to court, Mr. President.

That's our challenge. We have to find it. How many years have I been in office?

One and a half years.

Is there still time for me to prove it?

We are waiting for the evidence, Mr. President. We are waiting for the evidence.

How many corruptors have I arrested? Come on. Believe me, I swear to defend my people. I put my soul into it, many times. I am not willing to leave this country, when I am called by God,

I am not willing to let the hands of the bandits fall into my God, I was not willing to fall into the hands of these bandits. I was not willing.

That's enough for now.

Actually, I still want to go on.

We still have two more lectures. We still have Bosman Mardigu.

I want to answer that question with a very simple answer.

I'm happy happy. If it's okay, I have a question related to communication.

But I think Mr. Mardigo has already... Because he's a newbie. Be patient, sir.

I think he's going to summarize all the questions.

It's okay. Please. Debate is good. Thank you, Mr. President. This is my first invitation to be here. Hopefully, it's not the last. So, it's a blessing to meet you.

I can say many things. I'm very active on social media. I need a lot of data from you. I want to ask you about geopolitics, which is my interest. You implemented the Muka Dimah, which is a world peace. One of our laws is peace and world peace.

I often refer to myself as a peace teacher. But we know that peace teachers need to have tools to pressure us. We also need to have tools to offer, or what is it called? Bargain power or deterrent power. When I joined BOP,

what tools did we offer? Now, when you joined BOP, what was our tool? What was our tool? Because at that time, there was no war. Israel and America were not at war. Now, there is a war. What I still focus on is, as long as you have a tool,

we can use it as a tool to suppress peace. But if there is no peace, will you continue to stay in BOP and text. the So, in 2024, 2025, it's all gone. 80% of the population is dead. 70,000 are estimated to be dead. The elderly, women, and children are not armed. What can we do to stop that? to We sent aid. Indonesia was one of the countries that sent the most aid.

But other countries, like Arab countries, that are rich, they also sent more aid. But we sent Hercules, a lot. Three Hercules. We sent two hospital ships.

And there, the Arab countries and those who are in power, in the end, most of them have a good relationship with President Trump, America.

They all, America. They all are against America. Please stop this destruction of Gaza. And I, in various forums, I also said that here is the moral decline of the West. That Western countries, at that time America and Europe were still one, line of the West, I don't want to. They have too many. Once again, I'm not against the West. But I know what's happening. President Trump had a vision to be the president who brought peace. He really hoped he could solve the problems and he could get the Nobel Peace Prize. This was by our colleagues, Arab and Muslim countries at that time,

that we wanted to push President Trump to stop Israel. Because if we open, it will be opened. If we can be opened, Only America can hold Israel. Then, during the general PBB hearing in September 2025, if I'm not mistaken, I appeared because I was the third speaker after Lula, Brazil, Trump, and me. I was very firm. The day before, I was also speaking at the forum led by Emmanuel Macron.

There, many Western countries announced that they recognized Palestine. This is a state solution. So, after my move, a few hours later, 8 Muslim countries were invited by Donald Trump. Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates, Jordan, Turkey, Pakistan, Qatar. This is the photo.

With Jordan?

Yes, with Jordan. So the leaders at the time were Donald Trump and Erdogan. Two. Co-chair of the meeting. So there was Egypt, the Prime Minister was present. Pakistan, the Prime Minister. Egypt was present, the Prime Minister of Pakistan, King Abdullah himself was present,

the younger brother of the MBZ was present, if I'm not mistaken, he was the biggest ambassador in Washington, me and Emir Tamim, who was also the Saudi Arabian Prime Minister. There, he asked Witkow, Witkow, if I'm not mistaken, sits behind there, you can't see it, behind him is Besan. He reads the 21-point plan of Trump. We learn, if I'm not mistaken, there is paragraph 19, if I'm not mistaken. He talks about all kinds of things, interface dialogue, but this paragraph is what determines

for us. While Gaza redevelopment advances and when the Palestinian Authority, the Palestinian Authority, the government that is leading the Palestinians now, the reform program is physically carried out, the conditions may finally be in place for a credible pathway to Palestinian self-determination and statehood, which we recognise as the aspiration of the Palestinian people. The United States will establish a dialogue between Israel and the Palestinians to agree

on a political horizon for peaceful and prosperous coexistence. So, we had 8 discussions. We supported this or not. In the previous lobbies, we said we supported this. After that, we showed Emir Tamim as our spokesman. I mean, I think that's what I'm going to do. I'm going to do it.

I'm going to do it.

I'm going to do it.

I'm going to do it. I, we like your plan. Anyway, we like your plan. We like your plan. We like your plan.

We like your plan. We like your plan. We like your plan. We like your plan. The plan of Trump was to be 21st, but in the end it became 20th and so on. But anyway, we like your plan. But the problem is not us.

The problem is Prime Minister Netanyahu of Israel. After that, Trump said, he said this, he looked at us, Emir Tamim was beside me, let me take care of Prime Minister Netanyahu. He said, let me take care of Prime Minister.

I will convince him. So he gave us a guarantee. He will be the one to bind Prime Minister Netanyahu. And it's true, if I'm not mistaken, on the day of the meeting, on Wednesday, the of to Pokoknya sekarang diperkirakan semua rakyat Palestina dapat makan. Bisa diselamatkan. Ini fokus. Tiba-tiba ada konsep Board of Peace. Jadi, nah, Board of Peace, ternyata rencana itu yang tidak ada Board of Peace,

itu dimasukin ke Dewan Keamanan. I'm not a born of peace. It will be put in the Security Council. Revolution 2803. Which was not vetoed by anyone. So Russia and China will support it. Although it's not explicit. They abstain.

But they allow this resolution. That's our condition. Well, put the dice, please it. Yeah, I've seen the media resolution It was a lot kita de Sara Sider. I want say I can equal the process for Damian Indonesia ship menu bank pass to come for Damian Assal these two do we pay baby? Akuna board of peace this to do it baby And finally, the Board of Peace agreed with the PBB. We asked again, the other 7 Muslim countries, how? And finally, we came to the conclusion, if we are inside, maybe we can influence and help the Palestinian people.

We know, it we can help the Palestinian people, we will try. So, we conclude that there is no hope. And we consider it counterproductive. We waste time, energy, and do interest of the people of Indonesia, we will leave. That is our agreement, but I have made a decision, I will not wait for the other 7 countries.

If I make a decision, if I make a conclusion that is not beneficial, they will know that I will leave. I agree with what Mr. Mardhigu said. We must have leverage. I don't know why Indonesia is being invited. We are a bit far away. But maybe because we are considered one of the big Muslim countries. Turkey is big, Pakistan is big. Even though we are far from there, we are invited.

So I run the struggle of the Indonesian people. Since long ago, we have always defended the independence of Palestine. And they know that. And I always say, in my talks with Western leaders, we will join and we are ready to send peacekeeping forces as long as all parties agree on the involvement of Indonesia. to the Palestinian leaders. Second, all the countries that are involved, Egypt,

Jordan, I said not only Egypt and Jordan, but for me, I said Egypt and Jordan, I also asked for support from Saudi Arabia, Qatar, UAE. Those are our best friends. And I also said that Hamas should accept us.

I said that because we want to be a peacekeeping force. Then, we were given a space, the name is, the involvement of each country is given an opportunity according to national caveats. So, national differences can be respected. So, if the Board of Peace has a lot of activities, the former country, we want to join this one, we don't want to join this one. That's allowed. Joining the Perdamaian forces is also like that.

National caveats. We are firm, we don't want to be involved in military action against Hamas. That's one. I dari serangan manapun. Itu komitmen kita. Setelah terjadi perang begini, kita konsultasi, tapi the factunya adalah everything on hold. Saya sudah umumkan, Menteri Uang Negeri sudah umumkan bahwa sekarang kita tangguhkan, on hold. Kita tangguhkan everything until the explanation is clearer. If there is no peace, how can we get involved?

That's the first thing. But, once again, we have to calculate what we can do to help the Palestinian people. Because we are very much expected, the Indonesian people are very much expected by the Palestinians. Our aid, our food, our aid from Basnas is extraordinary, very big. We prepare Hercules, but the goods are from Basnas, from the Indonesian people. The impact was huge. So that's the situation, Mr. Marjigo.

So we saw it, but in the end, we have to act very carefully.

So you hold first, right?

Of course. I announced it last week.

So you hold the first aid team, right? Because the food is still needed, right? I'm Yes, of course. When you said that you will use an indicator to decide whether it is still useful or not, our position in the BOP, sir, is the war started by Israel and America cannot be an indicator to decide, yes, the Board of Peace is no longer in accordance with its name, because it is even actually starting a war. Is that an indicator that is not strong enough to make you choose to go out?

Yes, that is one of the strongest indicators. But, once again, we are still in sync with our partners there. We will have a lot of opinions from Egypt, Jordan, Turkey, and so on. If I may interject, this is very important. Everyone is asking about this. It would be unwise if we directly relate the issue of reconstruction assistance to the latest dynamics

because in BOP, it's about gas reconstruction and we partner with so many other countries including those who get problems unintentionally even though they don't want to get involved in war like Qatar they should also listen to us and we are like Qatar. We have to listen to them, so we can be fair to everyone.

so we can be fair to everyone. Let's take a short break.