Prince Andrew Just LOST His Titles… But LEAKED Emails Reveal What He & Epstein Hid

There was a new leaked email.

It talked about how he and Epstein were in this problem together. They would deal with it. They were very strong friends. And the embarrassment, of course, is that Andrew...

Who I didn't sweat at the time.

...Bergie was revealed to have publicly distanced herself from Epstein, but actually privately. But of course, this, you know, drew the royal couple closer and closer into Epstein's web. Is there any chance now that Andrew didn't know that Epstein was a... I think it's time for those stories to come out.

And I think the exciting thing is that maybe they're not gonna get away with it this time. Do you think Andrew might now see the inside of a prison cell?

Let's play a bit more.

That was what Andrew said to Epstein. This is clearly about enjoying their times with young girls. Trump, Clinton, Mandelson clearly has come out. You've been told who killed Epstein?

Yeah.

I know it's annoying when creators ask you to subscribe, but since I started, the channel's grown 10 times faster. If you don't sub, YouTube probably won't show you the next episode. It's free and takes two seconds. Hit subscribe. It's all kicking off at the moment, isn't it? Because there was a new leaked email. Tell me what's actually happened with Prince Andrew and Epstein. Well, a few days ago, the Mail on Sunday ran a story that they'd actually found the longer part of an elite

email which we knew about. This is a famous email from February 2011 where he talked about Let's Play a bit more. But actually what it showed, and this email actually came out the day after the Mail on Sunday had run a story about with the Virginia Gifford picture and his arms around him. But this had a little bit more detail and it talked about how he and Epstein were in this problem together, that they would sort of deal with it and basically, you know, they were very strong friends. And the embarrassment of course is that Andrew had been adamant in his Newsnight interview in November 2019

that he'd had no more contact with Epstein after December 2010. And this followed an email from two weeks ago in which Fergie was revealed to have publicly distanced herself from Epstein, but actually privately to have written to him as a dear friend and again described herself as a victim. And so what both of them are saying in public and what clearly they're doing in private are very different things. So it kind of completely undermines their argument. For example, Andrew doesn't remember Virginia Gifford has no, you know, this is

all made up by Virginia Gifford. And it kind of confirms what I found in the book. So I'd found for example that Fergie was staying with Epstein long after she claimed that she'd cut ties. So the doorman had her staying there in 2013-2014, so four years later. And it sort of undermines their position that there they are championing, you know, particularly Fergie, women's children's books, her reputation for charities dealing with with traffic women. And yet here she is, both of them friendly with a convicted pedophile that

everyone else's cut links with and they're quite happy to associate with because he's paying their bills and again Fergie had claimed that he'd only paid fifteen thousand pounds to her well at the sum as I say my book is more like two million pounds and she doesn't make it clear whether she repaid that money or not, and what Epstein got in return for giving her this money. There must have been some sort of deal. But of course, this drew the royal

couple closer and closer into Epstein's web. And Epstein was always using compromise. He was always blackmailing people. he was always using his powers over various influential and powerful people to his own advantage and possibly to the advantage of some of the world's intelligence services. I mean there's a lot of talk of his close links for example with Mossad. So I mean this is very embarrassing for the royal family and it should be the final nail in the coffin of the Yorks. It shows just what blatant liars

they are. Matthew 5 be the final nail in the coffin of the orcs. It shows just what blatant liars they are. Mason It's amazing what keeps coming out. It's just unbelievable. There's more and more and more. But you say that let's play a bit more. That was already out there on public record, was it? Steele Yes, it was. Mason Who said that?

Steele So that was what Andrew said to Epstein. And well, this is clearly about enjoying their times with young girls. Mason How does it work that we now see the wider email? I'm talking about journalism, so someone took a snippet of it years ago and now is releasing a wider bit? Steele Well the first bit of the email came out, I think in a deposition in a court case with a man called Jess Slaley. One of the things with the Yorks is they were deeply involved with, and Epstein, with two particular banks, JP Morgan and Morgan Stanley. And there's a case here with a banker

suing his bank for unfair dismissal or something. And this is some of the testimony that's emerging. Now what's interesting is that we've had these selective leaks, very damaging to the royal family. Where are they coming from? The journalist who seems to have them is a woman called Daphne Barak who originally done an interview with Ghislaine Maxwell in prison, so she's very well connected. But you know, clearly there's a lot of material that could be leaked and it's odd that each time it's something to do with the Yorks. We know from Ghislaine Maxwell's interview in prison with Trump's

attorney that it was actually Fergie who kind of drew Epstein into Andrews circle and vice versa and she has no love lost for Fergie so you know could this stuff have come from from the court case could it have come possibly from somehow Ghislaine or the Epstein estate having access to it we just don't know. It's been shared by the Mail on Sunday in the Sun, which is quite an interesting pairing. Though of course,

all the other papers have picked it up. And the result of this is, you know, people are now saying, you know, the monarchy is in a crisis, possibly as bad as since the abdication in 1936. And they really need to get a grip of the situation that Andrew is actually damaging the whole of the monarchy itself. Mason Is there any chance now that Andrew didn't know that Epstein was a paedophile?

Mason No, absolutely not. I mean, you know, this was public knowledge. Other friends distanced themselves. You know, he'd gone to prison, you know, for in the end 13 months in 2008. So there's no way he didn't know that he was dealing with a convicted pedophile. And, you know, the extraordinary thing is he continued those links. I mean, he pretended in December 2010, he'd gone to New York to say goodbye. But actually he hadn't. He'd gone actually on to get some more money for Fergie and to basically

do some more business with Epstein that they were working on. And Epstein, of course, played Andrew every time. It's been described as a rattlesnake dealing with a mouse. And so he deliberately, knowing that the paparazzi were outside, went for a walk in Central Park, which he didn't need to do, but basically to show the world, look, here's Andrew, he's still there, he's still my friend, I'm still kind of controlling him. So if I look at sort of the trade here, I guess Epstein's getting from Andrew, Epstein

was getting the big celebrity name, the kudos of having this high-flying royal and then Andrew is getting access to these most 17-year-old girls. There's no suggestion that Andrew himself is into children or anything like that. Matthew Feeney Well, we just don't know. I mean, Virginia Gifford Clee was 17 when she was trafficked to him in London. But we do know that there were girls, for example, on the island where Andrew went, who were much younger, 14, 15, that sort of age. I mean, the problem is trying to trace these women. A lot of them, you know,

didn't speak English. They were brought in through a model agency in Paris, run by a man called Jean-Luc Brunel, who's now dead. And they were sort of spirited back to Russia and, you know, their careers didn't take off. So it's very difficult to find anyone to come forward. I mean, we're very lucky that Virginia Jiffrey was found and did come forward. And I think one of the other problems is that a lot of these people were paid off, they were intimidated, they've now got families of their own. The last thing they want to do is to go public with this. And a lot of them are clearly very damaged and really don't want to revisit it. So in some ways it's going to be very hard to find the victims to come forward. I mean when the Palm Beach Police

Department did their investigation in 2005, I think they eventually got about 40 girls to bear witness against Epstein. But I mean there were literally hundreds, you know, and lots of people who wouldn't. And I think that's going to be the problem, trying to get people now. Epstein is dead, Ghislaine Maxwell has disappeared, but we are, you know, I think reaching a point where some big names will be thrown out. There have been hints that already with congressmen raiding out, hinting at certain people. So I think the dam is beginning to burst and

Andrew is just the first of many high-profile people who will now suddenly be in the news.

Matthew 5

Do you think so? So from that Epstein list, I mean Trump of course is one of them.

Peter 5

Yes, Trump, Clinton, I mean Mandelson clearly has come out recently.

Matthew 5

Yeah, tell me a bit about Mandelson. So just for those who are maybe of a younger generation,

who is Peter Mandelson?

Peter 5 Who is Peter Mandelson? Peter Mandelson was Deputy Prime Minister at one point. I mean, he's a great fixer. He's been in British politics a long time. He was European Commissioner at one point. He was, I think, head of the Department of Trade, very close ally to Blair. He helped with the whole Blair project, the new labor. And he's kind of continued to be at the top of British politics for a long time. He was appointed last year as the British ambassador in Washington and that's because of his close connections with a lot of Americans.

And that's where he had to resign because clearly, you know, there was this embarrassing link with Epstein. There are pictures of him choosing clothes with Epstein on the Caribbean. There's now correspondence showing they were very close. They were involved in money-making operations. I mean, Blair was also involved, so was Clinton. You know, there's a whole showing they were very close. They were involved in money making operations. Blair was also involved, so was Clinton. There's a whole network of businessmen who were using Epstein and Epstein was using them. Mason And with Matt, because I think there are people

on the list who you go, well, they were just... I've said this before that if I had been invited by some rich guy with an island, hey, come to my… I mean now knowing what we know, I wouldn't go. But if I didn't know that stuff… So some people on this list maybe were, I don't know, Stephen Hawking, whoever, just let's hang out with this rich guy on an island, and then some people it looks like, oh no, you were getting up to no good. So what… Mandelson, where do we stand on that? Dr. Richard Walker Well, we don't know. I mean, we know he had business activities with him. We don't know anything else, but something may emerge. I mean, he's been forced to resign twice before.

This is the third time he's had to resign because of kind of dodgy dealings, and it's always been financial. So I think that's probably the likely thing. as Virginia Jeffries said that she'd been trafficked to him. He denies that. But he was, for example, the picture has just come out of him, one of the shooting weekends at Sandringham with Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell and Andrew. So he's clearly quite involved. But you're absolutely right. People went on these flights often because of support for

their foundations like Clinton, because Epstein was supporting scientific research, so people like Stephen Hawking went there. He was very good at bringing people together and where things crossed over between the philanthropy and the business and the sex is very difficult to establish and may become clearer now that more files may come out. Matthew Feeney So it's probably maybe fair to say Andrew was attracted to the, obviously there's that life with the young girls and Fergie, it's probably maybe fair to say Andrew was attracted to the obviously there's that

life with the young girls and Fergie it's the money that Epstein was bringing to them. Richard Pryor Yes I mean Andrew I think there were three things. It was the contacts which is what he talks about at Newsnight. It was the supply of young women and it was the fact that he was Epstein was paying Fergie's debts. Fergie actually had more numbers than Little Black Book than Andrew, 18 to 16. Matthew Feeney Numbers for Epstein, this was?

Peter Robinson Yes. Epstein had for her. So he was clearly in contact with her a lot. Now that doesn't mean that she was doing anything illegal, but I think it does suggest that the relationship was pretty close. We know that she stayed at several of his properties, and it would be very difficult to go to his properties and not realize that something odd was going on. There were naked young teenagers

swimming in the pool, there were naked pictures of girls all over the walls, there were phallic soaps in the bathrooms. So, you know, she couldn't, and indeed Andrew couldn't have gone to these places without realizing that there was something underhand going on. And both of them were patrons of charities dealing with trafficked women. So there's a real hypocrisy here. You know, they're trying to launder their reputations by this charity work. And yet the reality is that they're very happy to consort with a paedophile.

Mason. And particularly the words, we will play soon. That was Andrew who wrote that, right? And we are in this together. That suggests now we've done illegal, illicit activity. Does it? Is that what that's suggesting? Reece Yes, absolutely. I mean, you know, Andrew was very keen to distance himself from Epstein in that Newsnight interview, said he only saw him a few times and etc. But it's very clear that they were very close and they were deeply involved with each other and we have a lot of testimony from people who've seen Andrew with young girls on the

island in the Palm Beach house and in Manhattan. So I think it was always a bit difficult for him to claim that but now we have more and more testimony coming out, written testimony. A lot of this relied on interviews with people. People were trying to discredit Virginia Giffray as not being a credible witness. A whole campaign by the Maxwell family and Victoria Harvey and others, you know, has now been shown to

be complete rubbish. I mean, certainly I quote in my book entitled, you know, correspondence between Ghislaine and Andrew and Epstein about how they deal with Virginia Giffray and they're bringing in PR firms to try and undermine her. So, I mean, she was a great sort of heroine really. She stood up and, you know, in some ways was driven to suicide by this whole experience. And, you know, I'm afraid Andrew and Fergie have blood on their hands.

Matthew Feeney That's if we believe that she took her own life. Well yes, I mean there, you know, clearly a lot of information hasn't come out about her death and we just don't know the full circumstances. But yes, if we assume that she was driven to suicide, but as you say there have been stories about murder. I mean there have been a lot of mysterious deaths in the whole story.

You know Brunel committed suicide in prison, Epstein now, I think people have come around to the conclusion that that was not suicide. We've got Caroline Adriamo who was a friend of Eugene Gifford who died of a drugs overdose but was not known to be taking drugs. So there are a lot of people who have died very conveniently for some very rich and powerful people. And clearly Epstein couldn't testify, Ghislaine is clearly frightened for her life, she's done the bidding of Trump by basically getting him off the hook. So, you know, it's a very, very murky swamp that

we're looking at. Matthew 15 And I've asked you this before, but I mean, you've written a lot now. I mean, even before the book entitled, you've written, you've spoken so much about them. And do your family not say to you, come on, Andrew, enough now. There's been a lot of mysterious things happening and let's leave it alone. Matthew Feeney Well, if someone wants to knock me off, they're

going to do it. So there's not much I can do about it. I mean, the best thing I can do is to speak up as I have done and try and speak truth to power. And you know, it's very gratifying to have the support of people like you. More and more people have come and sort of raised their head above the parapets since this book's come out. So it's a drum, as you know, I've been banging for a long time, the need for more royal accountability and transparency,. And, but you know, it's been happening for years. And I think the exciting thing is that maybe they're not

going to get away with it this time. That, you know, people are going to be held to account. I mean, I think they're very good grounds, certainly for Andrew and Sarah Ferguson to cooperate with the lawyers, the victims' lawyers, to actually cooperate with law enforcement in the states and indeed here. And I think there are grounds for law enforcement to actually investigate both of them. There's, for example, a crime of profiting from a public position, which is exactly what Andrew did when he was

a trade envoy between 2001 and 2011. And I sort of delineate that financial corruption in entitled. And I, you know, I'd hope now people will begin to focus on that. There's been a slight distraction with Epstein and the sexual scandal, but actually it's the financial scandal, which I think is much more damaging to the monarchy and is the story that really needs to be, to come out now. Do you think there are people somewhere in back rooms now working to bring the case against Prince Andrew? Richard Walker Well, I think the problem is the Metropolitan

Police and the National Crime Agency don't want to go there. I mean, there's never been a member of the royal family who's been charged with a serious offence. I think Princess Anne was charged with not controlling her dog and speeding. But, you know, no one wants to go there so they're going to find excuses not to investigate. I mean, there have been one or two, they claim they looked at things and found there was nothing to see there. So again, they are, I would say, in the dock because clearly there is a lot of evidence, they must have been presented with evidence. I've got evidence

which I'm very happy to give the National Crime Agency, stuff that didn't go in the book for legal reasons. And so, you know, if they really do want to deal with this, then, you know, there is an opportunity to do so. And I think public opinion requires something. I think they want Andrew to really now, and Sarah, to come clean about what exactly their relationship was with Epstein.

No more lies. They want, I think, more scrutiny and accountability of the royal family, not just their finances, but for example, the way they deal with their records. I think this is a realization of the way that the historical narrative is being curated and shaped by the royal family and rich and powerful people. Our records have been destroyed to protect things. And we know, I know just writing about the royals that the Queen

Mum's papers were destroyed, a lot of Diana's papers were destroyed, the Queen's papers are being catalogued by her royal valet, but not by historian. Prince Philip arranged his papers at his death, I think a lot of stuff was destroyed there. I know that with Mount Batten, a lot of papers have either been retained by the family or destroyed. So, you know, clearly people want to cover up what they've done in the past. But, you know, this is history and I think particularly since almost all those people now are dead, I think it's time for those stories to come out.

Mason It does make you wonder, doesn't it? Because we live in this technological age where everything can be saved and people are now going, hey, you're destroying this information. But all the history we have about the royals back through the ages, Henry VIII and all, you know, what did we really know? I mean, there must be so much that was just gone. There's so much gone. I mean, I just know when I did my book Traitor King that there were a lot of, I mean, MI5 was spying on Wallace Simpson. And when the Queen Mother died, they did release one file, a famous file, MEPO 1035, which was the one that revealed she was the lover of this man called Guy Trundle. But I talked to special branch officer responsible

and he said, well, actually we destroyed all the other files. We kept one representative file. But you're right, you know, it's very easy to digitalize these files now. I talked to an archivist in the MOD the other day and he was absolutely appalled that there's no proper records management that MOD facilities when they find records and some of these important historical records for example about the Second World War, they just chuck them in a skip and he saved sometimes and when he could, things like photographs. But you know, so much of our history is being

destroyed with no record being kept and we are the losers. It's our history that's been gone. Matthew 15 Yeah. I was thinking about that. It was Charles I, I think, that hid in an oak tree. And I thought, did he? Maybe. Matthew 15 Well, lots of those myths, of course, start. And again, one of the things I found with the traitor king was there was meant to be

no relationship between Wallace and Ribbentrop, who's a German ambassador in London, and she was meant to be a German spy. And there are no records. But then by chance, at a talk, someone came up to me and said, I'm the grandson of Ribbentrop's chauffeur. And he used to tell me stories of how he used to drive Wallace Simpson to Ribbentrop's house. So, you know, that oral history is so important, And that sort of gets lost. And that's, you know, rather sad because a lot of people around the royal family don't want to lose their access to the royal family by appearing to speak out. A lot of people I found with the Andrew Book ambassadors and naval people said, this is information I gathered in the course of my work. I don't think I should be revealing it. And so these stories, you know, go. There's odd gossip, you know, revealing it. And so these stories, you know, go. There's odd gossip, you know,

that you often pick up from the children of these people, but the real principles take these stories to the grave. Mason Do these new leaks give more credence to the idea that the photo, the infamous photo at Ghislaine Maxwell's, was it? With Andrew, is it the one with Virginia Reject? Reece Yes, there's no doubt that that photo is absolutely genuine and I write about that a lot with

all the arguments entitled. So, you know, there wasn't a technology to doctor photographs even when it was revealed. We've never found the photograph that it was supposedly doctored from. We've had people look at the photos, I mean it's a copy, but we've had people, in fact I'm having lunch today with the person who was sent by the mail on Sunday to mine Virginia Gifford when Sharon Churchill went down to Australia. She saw the photo herself, she was there when she pulled it out of the cabinet.

And so she's seen the original, several other people saw the original at the time, including Virginia's father, Sky, her friend, Carolina Adramo, her boyfriend at the time, Tony Figueroa. So, I mean, I'm afraid Victoria Harvey and all these people are just sprouting lies. Mason- How do Charles and William now navigate this privately? What do you think they'll

be getting up to?

Mason- Well, they're caught between a rock and a hard place. They need to keep Andrew and Sarah on side because they're worried what they might do, what secrets they might leak, if they might do a sort of Andrew Morton book with someone. But at the same time, they realise that this is damaging to the whole reputational, to the institution as a whole, and therefore something needs to be done. People feel things need to be done. I mean, I think that he signed off on those emails, KG, Knight of the Garter. Well, that is an order of chivalry. So, this is not a chivalrous person. And what a pompous oath

to describe himself KG. So, that should go. At the moment, he doesn't walk through the streets in public, but he goes to the lunches, well that should be stripped of him, it's easy enough to do, it's easy enough to remove Duke of York and so Sarah Ferguson wouldn't be Duchess of York and she's been living off that title for 30 years even after she divorced, you know, marketing products with Duchess on them and even describe herself as a Royal Highness when she's not allowed to. All the things that people have criticized Meghan Markle for, Fergie's been doing for 30 years.

And I think he should no longer be a councilor of state, I think he's still an honorary vice admiral, that should go. And I think some pressure should now be put on him to get him out of royal lodge. You know, he's no reason for a non-working royal to be living in crown estate property in such extravagance. And I think there needs to be a real investigation into his wealth.

Where is he earning his money and how legitimate is it? I mean, is he selling in a basically cash for, you know, not cash for honors, but is he basically monetizing his royal status for his own personal gain? So I mean, I do think there are very strong grounds to look at them very carefully, whether it's a parliamentary inquiry or a legal investigation, because I think the public really now are getting fed up with all these lies, this reluctance by the royal family to address basically these

crooks and, you know, we'll just have to see what happens. Matthew 15 What is a garta? Isn't it like a sort of women's thing? Matthew 16 Well, the night of the garta, I mean, you know, I think it's restricted to about 20-30 people. It's always the most distinguished

people. You know, famous scientists and politicians. It's a great honor. And the ridiculous thing is the royal family give it to themselves the whole time. You know, when you see these royals who've never done a day in active service with rows and rows and never even been in the armed services, rows and rows of medals, it becomes ruralitarian, you know. And I think William will, I hope, will address all that. He will see this just doesn't work in a modern democracy and we'll move to a more European style, I think, monarchy, very much focused on the direct line of succession which we've got and all these peripheral figures will just not be there. I mean, I suspect Princess Anne and Prince Edward will be doing their good works but in a very low-key way.

We will not see lots of them on the balcony at Buckingham Palace. We may see some of them at Remembrance Sunday, but maybe not. I just think there needs to be a cutting back that people are tired of these hangers-on. Matthew 15 Yeah. The Knight of the Garter, I've got it written here, comes from a legend involving King Edward III and the Countess of Salisbury at a court ball in 1349 when the Countess's garter dropped. So that is like a thing they have around their leg or

what is that?

Mason Jones Yes, around your leg, yes.

Tom Clougherty Yeah. What's it for? Why is it around there? Mason Jones Well, I'm not sure. There was a garter on your wedding night, wasn't there? Tom Clougherty it up, put it on his own leg, sounds like Prince Andrew's thing we do, and declared honi soi, honi soi, ki mali pance, shame on him who thinks evil of it, which became the order's motto and the gata, the symbol of this new chivalric order.

Well, there you go.

Matthew 14 So you can see he does not really appropriate. I mean, it's ridiculous he was given this. I mean, we've known for a long time he's a badden and there have been lots and lots of stories about him, Miles Andy and things, you know, going way back. So you know, it's ridiculous that he got it in the first place. Matthew Feeney Yeah, yeah. I bet he has sort of a sly wink about it as well because it's the kind of thing he'd do with a garter, isn't it? And be like, ha ha, put moving with the rich and powerful. And I think this is why the fight to get him out of Royal Lodge will

be so difficult, because his whole identity is based around his royal status, and he's not going to give that up easily. Mason You mentioned the stripping back of this huge, ridiculous royal family we have. Beatrice and Eugenie, they've been in the news a bit about this as well. I mean, what is their position on all this? What are people saying about them? Mason Well, you know, some people feel sorry for them, say that you shouldn't tell the daughters with the same brush, but I'm afraid, you know,

my research shows that they have also been involved in using contacts built up through their royal status to make money for themselves. I mean, Beatrice was out promoting a Saudi bank the other day. They were taken on a lot of these trade trips by Andrew, paid for by the taxpayer. We had to pay additional costs of their security, etc. Also, they could build useful contacts which they're now exploiting in their own business careers. And there are plenty of stories I have entitled of Andrew pushing them forward either as working royals or to try and get business for the

companies they work for. So for example, there's a story about English National Ballet having pressure put on them to take up a system of auctions from Eugenie's firm that Andrew offered to be a patron of a business school in return for one of the daughters getting a free MBA. You know, this is corrupt. This is what you expect in South America, but not in Britain.

Matthew 5

Do you think there's a risk for Charles, if he were to sort of push Andrew and the family out even more, that Andrew might go and write a kind of spare part two, his own spare book about Charles standing on his head and in his boxers and things like that? Richard 6 head and in his boxes and things like that. Matthew Feeney Well, I don't think Andrew would write it himself, but what he would do is he would have a time to find a tame person to write it as I say, like Andrew Morton. And so it wouldn't be traced back in the way it wasn't with Diana until much later. And he would get the stories out in the way that Scobie,

you know, was fed material by the Sussexes. So, you know, there will be some tame person who will be very happy to get the stories out or there will be stories leaked. I mean, Fergie has very close connections with the newspapers, you know, a lot of there's some supporters there for her still. People you know, publishers and journalists will be happy to sort of have this dirty washing aired in public.

And so, I'm sure there may well even be discussions already. I mean, certainly in the course of my research, and I think I show in the book, Sarah was often hinting at that she would spill the beans, she was going to write a novel based on her life, you know, ways of getting around the divorce settlement which gave her an effect in NDA. And, you know, it's ironic because she was busy trying to sue members of staff who were not following the NDAs that they'd signed when they worked for her and wanted to give away stories about working for her. And yet she at the very same time was doing the same about

her relationship with the Royal Family. It's why certain members of the Royal Family are not very keen on her. Mason. That's always the way. That's like Harry was complaining about, you know, everybody giving away secrets about his life. So then he wrote a tell-all memoir about people like Chelsea Davy who, even in his book, he says she didn't want to be in the public eye at all. And he puts a whole chapter about her. Richard Wagner Yeah. Well, I mean, you know, there should be under privacy laws, people should be protected, but exactly, I mean,

there's a lot of hypocrisy. And I think, you know, the royals kind of think there's one rule for them and one rule for everyone else. But that must worry. I think the one form of control that Charles and William have, the daughters, if Andrew and Sarah were to do something that was embarrassing for the family as a whole, I think they would take it out on the daughters. The daughters we use very much as sort of pawns in the divorce settlement that they would be given, custody would be given to Andrew if Sarah, for example,

wants to go and live abroad or behave badly or broke the terms of the divorce settlement. And I think that could be used now. So that, you know, the argument could be, yes, we will, you know, we will give them some limited role, which is what Andrew's ambition is for them. And, you know, they won't be cast adrift, they will be invited to Sandringham. I think it's very interesting that last Christmas, when Andrew and Sarah were not allowed to go to Sandringham and had to spend Christmas at Royal Lodge, that Beatrice didn't actually join her parents. She decided it would be more fun to go to Sandringham. And that suggests that her loyalties are maybe more towards

the institution and the wider family than to her own parents. Matthew 15 That's really interesting. I think when we first spoke years ago, there was a feeling, not just with you, but I think most people as well, you know, Andrew's never going to actually be arrested or anything. But have you changed at all? Do you think Andrew might now see the inside of a prison

cell?

Matthew Feeney No, I don't think he will, because I think it's just that's a step too far for everyone. You know, so many rich, powerful people never see the inside of a prison cell. I mean, it was, you know, I don't think Epstein, if he hadn't died, would have actually really been convicted. He would have found a way out, some sort of sweetheart deal as he did with the original charge. You know, he had compromised so many people. He had, you know, powerful people on his side. Matthew 15 So was Epstein not... He died in a prison cell, but had he not yet been convicted?

Peter No, it's very much the early stages. In 2008, 2009, he served a short sentence for soliciting a minor. I mean, he had, this was the Palm Beach police investigation. And basically, he didn't see, he didn't, he spent the night in prison, but he was able to go to his office during the day. It was a very, very lenient sentence, having everyone thought he'd be bangged to rights and, you know, in prison for the rest of his life. And then later, he was arrested in July 2019, and this was a federal charge. This was the FBI investigating him because of offenses

he'd committed outside Florida. So that was a state case. And that's what's up, but he was only literally just been arrested, you know, the lawyers hadn't begun to, hadn't had a trial. So this is why his death is surprising. He had everything to play for at that stage. And you know, the idea of committing suicide when there was still a long way to go in the

legal process just doesn't make sense to, you know, even to the victim's lawyers. So I don't think that's a conspiracy theory. I think there are strong arguments to suggest that, and we know all the cock-ups, the cameras that were switched off and the guards that weren't there, the autopsy that wasn't made public and Michael Barton's autopsy suggesting it was murder. So yeah, and maybe the government will, the story of Epstein's death will come out. I suspect all those papers have been destroyed. The person who did it, and I know I've been told who did it, I think it's been spirited away and no one's going to find them.

Mason You've been told who killed Epstein?

Steele Yeah.

Mason Can you say?

Steele No. Mason Probably best not to. Steele Probably best not to. Mason We'd have to put more security here. Steele Yes, you would be in trouble. Mason Yeah, everybody would be in trouble for that. Maybe you'll tell me off air in a minute. Yes, maybe. Bloody hell. Okay. Every now and

then what seems to happen is the news cycle, sports, Gary Lineker says something stupid, this person says something, and then suddenly there's more about Andrew Epstein pops up. Is someone sort of siphoning off little snippets of new things? Do you think there is someone out there with a stack of more stuff and they're gradually putting it out there? Mason Well, that's the impression we're getting. Because, I mean, we're getting it's all about British people. I mean, with Mandelson before,

we're not getting leaks about the Americans and it is Americans who are mainly involved in this case. So there's something going on. But I mean, who actually has access to this material. Well, I mean, Daphne Barrett clearly knows, but she's not gonna say. But it is clever. I mean, the feeling in the royal family is, the news agenda is to say, we'll move on,

it'll be Gaza or Ukraine or something, everyone will forget. And then every so often, something comes back and the whole thing gets resurrected. And that's, that must be their worry, that this problem is never going to go away There's going to be this drip drip feed each time it gets worse and worse And you know Andrew and Sarah keep digging their own graves by some of the comments they make which are patently not true

And that's why they need to get ahead of the narrative and really sort of exile them. You know just Marginalize them, you know Because we had this moment where Sarah was being invited to the Royal Box at Wimbledon, she was at Ascot, she was being invited to Sandringham, you know, she was going to certain events, and Charles felt she'd be very useful because of her support for cancer charities.

You know, now she's toxic, no one wants to be linked to her. She's seen as damaged goods. And I can't think anyone except perhaps some Chinese businesses and people in the Middle East are going to want to associate with the two. Matthew 15 Yes, it's only sort of downhill from here

on out, I believe, with them.

Toby Yeah, but they're both of retirement age. I mean, they've both made lots of money. They've got grandchildren. You know, there's no reason why they couldn't have basically a quiet life of retirement. But I think, you know, like the Duke of Windsor was sent into exile abroad, you know, the best thing that can happen is that they just go quietly out of circulation somewhere. And I think Andrew might do that.

But Sarah, you know, I think is going to come bouncing back. You know, she had that episode in 2010 where she was caught on film selling access to Andrew. And you would have thought that would be the end of her career. But she goes and Oprah and she's back, you know, promoting things on shopping channels and writing books and everyone thinking she's wonderful.

Matthew 15

Who do you think killed Epstein? No, I'm joking. I've got one more question for you, but where can people get your wonderful book entitled? Matthew Feeney Well, it's on Amazon. It's in all good book shops. So you should have a website, andrewloney.me, which gives details, for example, of my speaking engagements. And so that will, you know, if people are keen to come and see me talk and get signed copies. And there's

more coverage of the sort of podcasts I've done, television programs, things like that, reviews of the book. Mason And who is probably the fourth or fifth heretic? Is there anyone left that you can think of who's a heretic you admire? Steele Gosh, well, I think, I mean, Virginia Giffray is a heretic. She spoke out very bravely and none of this would really have happened if she hadn't actually

brought her case. I mean, it would have been, you know, we just wouldn't have known about it. And so, I mean, in a very positive way, you know, she was going against the orthodoxy. It was a brave thing to do and, you know, it's very poignant when you see interviews with her now, to think that only a few months later she would be dead.

Horrible what happened with her, but a great heretic. People please go and get hold of Entitled. We have the link down below. It's a wonderful book and obviously goes into much, much, much more detail than what we can cover today. And Andrew's been brilliant.

He comes on all the time. Go and follow him on the socials and get his book. Hit this like button. Let me know what you think, all the conspiracies, the thoughts, what happened, what didn't, in the comments down below. I will be reading them. Andrew what happened, what didn't, in the comments down below. I will be reading them. Andrew

will probably read them. We'll have a look through and keep watching this channel.