“Putting Lipstick On a HOLOCAUST!” Trump Plans Gaza Deal With Netanyahu + James Comey Indicted

At least we're at a minimum very, very close, and I think we're beyond very close. And I want to thank Bibi for really getting in there and doing the job. I think Benjamin Netanyahu was desperate to get a good deal, a deal that will allow both the hostages to come back and his coalition to survive.

So this is good on paper, good on promise, probably okay on principle,

but once again, you don't have the credibility to land it.

It shows the level of disrespect and power dynamics that Israel and Netanyahu can treat Trump like their own personal cuck.

President Trump has never been bought and paid for by anyone. Maybe Netanyahu surely does not have the position that he is in control of President Trump.

We're witnessing a foreign meddling operation with Deborah Leah Schwartzman at the forefront as an influencer trying to put lipstick on a Holocaust.

President Trump is hosting Benjamin Netanyahu at the White House as talks of the US back ceasefire plan reach their final stages. Today's talks are the last and most consequential stop on a US talk that's been marred by controversies for the Israeli premier. UN delegates walked out of the hall in protest as Netanyahu spoke at the General Assembly last week. Yesterday he was forced to respond directly to claims that he openly boasted about controlling

the United States.

He's running around, this is a fact, I'm not guessing about this, because I talked to people he said it to, is running around the Middle East, his region and his own country, and telling people point blank, just stating it, I control the United States. I control Donald Trump.

I don't decide a thing for President Trump. He is the most independent leader and amazing leader that I've seen in all my years, and I think many of the people, many people in the world see that. So the idea that I, in any ways that I boast that I control them, that's ridiculous. It's a lie. And I know not only did I not say it, I don't think it.

He may not control Donald Trump, but he would apparently like to control social media. Netanyahu met a group of pro-Israel influences on the sidelines of the UN assembly, telling them that a Trump-backed deal for American investors to buy a share of TikTok could turn the platform into an Israeli weapon.

We have to fight with the weapons that apply to the battlefields in which we're engaged. And the most important ones are the social media.

And the most important purchase that is going on right now is class... Followers. Find followers. TikTok.

TikTok.

TikTok. Number one. Number one. And I hope it goes through because it can be consequential. And the other one, what's the other one that's most important?

X.

X.

X.

That's it.

Very good.

And, you know, so we have to talk to Elon.

He's not an enemy.

Reaction to those comments on X has been, to put it mildly, deeply divided. And the same can be said about the bombshell news that James Comey has been indicted for perjury. Depending on where you stand, the prosecution of a former FBI director is either justice being done, evidence of creeping autocracy, or a sad consequence of illegal warfare, which began as an attack on Donald Trump.

Well, joining me to debate all this is former Deputy Press Secretary and host of Katie Miller podcast, Katie Miller, the pro-Israel influencer, Deborah Lee, Grey Zone Editor-in-Chief, Max Blumenthal, host of Indisputable at The Young Turks, Dr. Rashad Ritchie,

plus the legal scholar and author of The Preventative State, Alan Dershowitz. Well, welcome to all of you. Alan, let me start with you. We're going to come to James Comey a little later, but the significance of what is going on right now in the White House with President Trump and Prime Minister Netanyahu. Donald Trump said at the weekend that there was basically...

..this war was ending, there was a deal, everyone was signing up to it, others are more skeptical. What is your sense about where we are?

Well I had time to speak to Benjamin Netanyahu both at the United Nations and at a dinner. Afterward we had private time together. I can assure you of one thing that Prime Minister Netanyahu has never said that he controls the United States or anything like it. He has said that there is a great alliance and he has respect for Donald Trump. Of course he says that the social media are very important.

I think Benjamin Netanyahu was desperate to get a good deal, a deal that will allow both the hostages to come back and his coalition to survive. But by the way, even if his coalition doesn't survive, there are now enough people outside of his coalition who support this deal that would come into a coalition, even if the right wing left. So I'm now more optimistic about the possibility that Israel at least can accept the 21 point

deal than I have been in the past. Now whether Hamas accepts it or not remains to be seen but I think we're probably closer to a potential deal today this

hour than we have been for a long time. Okay Dr. Rashad Rishi what is your

response to that? In all due respect, first of all, I would be hesitant to say what Benjamin Netanyahu has said or has not said in reference to owning the United States of America, since none of us have heard those conversations directly and we can't be with him 24 hours. Number two, the dynamic that exists with Netanyahu is this.

He doesn't have trust equity. And this is when trust equity matters. If you have broken your word prior, or at least the other side of this has had contention with your word being valuable, whatever word you put on the table this time will have the same level of respect that you showed your word the first time. So now you have a principle that looks decent on paper, but the other side of that principle, Hamas, they haven't even seen it, according to the last report.

So this is good on paper, good on promise, probably OK on principle, but once again, you don't have the credibility to land it.

Katie Miller, I mean-

But remember, too, that Hamas, remember, too, that Hamas on October 6th was part of a peace deal. They had promised peace. There was a ceasefire. And they broke it by killing 1,200 people and kidnapping 250. So certainly there's a credibility gap on the other side as well.

And Netanyahu's credibility essentially is enforced by the Trump administration. So I think if Netanyahu and Trump agree to a deal, that deal will be carried out. Will Hamas carry it out? Look at their history, they haven't carried out previous deals.

Alan, just on that- Well, let me respond to that-

Hang on one sec.

Wait, wait, wait. Hang on one sec. I want to ask another question. No, no, no. On that one, hang on, hang on please. I'm going to respond to you, Alan. You will get a chance in a moment, but I'm actually moderating this panel, so I will go first. Alan, I was curious what you thought,

given all your legal background, about Israel's attack on the Hamas peace delegation, trying to work out what they thought of whatever the last offer was. In Doha, a country with 10,000 American troops right there, it seemed to me an utterly stupid and reckless act. It didn't work, it didn't kill any of the Hamas commanders,

but why would Israel do that at such a critical stage of negotiations? Why would you talk about trust, but why would anyone on the Hamas side now have any trust with anybody on the other side if they think every time they're going to meet to consider

a proposal, they're going to get killed?

Remember there's a precedent for this. The United States, without permission of Pakistan, went after Osama bin Laden and killed him

on Pakistani territory.

But he wasn't involved in any peace process.

We're in a country.

No, no. But what a country is harboring people. Alan, with respect, I do find the bin Laden analogy utterly fatuous. Everyone's used it on the Israeli side. Legally, it's not. No, but he was. The point being, Osama bin Laden, at the time he was taken out, and by the way, thank God he was, and absolutely amazing that the Navy SEALs went in and took him out, great. But let's not pretend that he was involved in any active negotiations with the United

States over any peace deal. Obviously he wasn't. So the parallel to me is completely different. I just cannot get my head round the thought process of Prime Minister Netanyahu at the crucial moment of negotiations thinks it's a good idea to attack Qatar and to try and take out all the Hamas negotiating team.

No one can explain to me why that was a good idea.

It was not a good idea. The question is was it legal? And the answer was yes, it was legal when you're harboring criminals and murderers, it is legal to cross over into borders. I didn't ask if it was legal. Was it wise? No, no, no. Was it wise? No. Had it succeeded, by the way, I think President Trump would have applauded it and many people in the world would have applauded it. When

Israel does something like that, it darn well better succeed as it did with Iran. It failed in Qatar and that certainly suggests that it was not a good idea. So no I don't support as a good idea but I support it legally.

Okay but by the way as we're talking I can reveal that Prime Minister Netanyahu has apologized to the Qatari prime minister for the Israeli strike on Doha.

That's a good idea.

They spoke on the phone during Netanyahu's meeting with Trump, according to new reports. He apologized for violating Qatari sovereignty and expressed regret for killing a Qatari security guard. Let me bring in Max Blumenthal here. You see, Max, I just think that if you're going to ever get to peace in this awful war, which has killed so many innocent people in the process of the battle between the IDF

and Hamas, if you're going to get to a peaceful resolution, at some stage, there has to be a modicum of good faith on both sides to even consider a peace proposal. I just can't understand. I mean, it's all right, Netanyahu now apologizing, but what was he thinking to do this? I just can't understand it.

Well, former State Department Press Secretary Matthew Miller said, after defending Netanyahu day after day, that Netanyahu shattered every ceasefire agreement, broke every possible deal in order to survive and hold his narrow coalition together, a coalition that features people like Gila Gamliel, the innovation minister who said the real agenda in Gaza is to make

Gaza uninhabitable until the population leaves, and we'll do the same in the West Bank. Bezalel Smotrik, the finance minister, has said that this is a business deal, that Gaza is a business deal and a real estate bonanza, and we need to divide it. The first stage was demolition, and building in Gaza and basically taking it over for Jewish settlers is cheaper. So that's the real agenda.

We're witnessing a kind of final solution that Netanyahu affirmed in May 2025 when he said we will destroy the homes of the people in Gaza to make them leave. Today, Israel destroyed the largest residential tower in Gaza City, a residential tower, because I've reported in Gaza that I've actually seen. And the defense minister, Israel Katz, celebrated this.

They're celebrating the destruction of entire neighborhoods, which is why, while Israel is waging a seven front war, which now extends into US allies to kill the negotiating team because it was getting in the way of this final solution, they're actually extending into an eighth front,

which is the United States, where Netanyahu has said that his coterie of billionaires, including Larry Ellison, must buy TikTok and buy all these media assets to prevent the PR propaganda collapse that Israel's facing. And we have a panelist here who is in that meeting

who appropriately compared Netanyahu and his Likud party to Donald Trump's GOP, essentially because the Likud party controls Donald Trump through vehicles like Israeli asset, Miriam Adelson.

Okay, Katie, I'm going to come to you, because I was going to come to you before I went back to Alan. I will come to you. But just on that point about that meeting, Deborah Lee, you were in the Netanyahu influencer meeting. Do you recognize the characterization

that Max just put up for that?

I think everything that Max is saying is just honestly hysterical, because it is so two-sided. Max, you are directly funded by Iran, Russia, and Qatar. The organization that you work for is directly receiving funds from the Iranian Play TV.

That is a huge lie.

That is a huge lie. You can't just go on here and lie. You're funded by Israel. It is proven that that is, you have received money. I've never received a dollar from Israel or the Israeli government, whereas your company, Grayzone, is directly, this is not liable, it has been proven in documents from your own company. But at the intro, yes, you claim that your organization, Grayzone, simply runs off readers

donating money, but that is not true, and that is absolutely not true because it's been proven. And here's a point to address what you said on the intro of this, that Bibi was saying that he needs to buy TikTok and that make it an Israeli weapon. I was in that meeting, I posted the video, the video that you played was my video.

If you watch the video for yourself, he never said that. I was asking Bibi about what do we do in the wake of Charlie Kirk's assassination and the rise of the woke right with people like Candace Owens and Tucker Carlson creating chaos online, even with things like Tyler Robinson saying that he wasn't the assassin when he's confessed to it,

trying to get a mistrial for him and not get justice for Charlie Kirk. So I was asking Bibi because I wrote a paper when I was in college, as Max mentioned, about the similarities between the GOP party and the identities and the values

of the Republican Party under Trump and how the Likud Party in Israel under Benjamin Netanyahu has similar ideologies and values, and they're cut from the same ideological cloth. I didn't say that the Likud Party controls the GOP. I literally wrote that they just have similar ideological values, which I hold as a conservative Jew.

So as far as buying TikTok, we saw in that video, every single person here and nearly every single commentator agrees. I've never received a dollar, so that's a cheap shot. Keep trying. My bank accounts...

You wouldn't even be here if Netanyahu hadn't bought you.

I'm not. I'm still talking. That's not true. I've been on Fox hundreds of times. I was a huge TikTokker in 2020. I'm not lying. You're a liar. Anyway, I wasn't done talking. Every single person here and every single political commentator, and the Trump administration will acknowledge

that TikTok is a grave threat to the United States if it was controlled by China. All of us have acknowledged how China can influence the United States through TikTok, through videos, through making us dumber, through putting out propaganda, whatever it is.

Same with X. Why do you think Elon Musk bought X? Because we recognize the free speech issues on there under Mark Zuckerberg. Why is it that every single time an American gay, a female Jew, has been before change in modern times?

OK, Debra, let's hear this.

OK, time out. Let's hear from Katie.

I just don't understand.

No, sorry, unless your name is Katie, please don't now speak. Katie.

Every time an American female Jew speaks in our country, it is that they're bought and paid for by the Israelis. Why is it that every single time a Jew has an opinion, they must be therefore bought and paid for by the Israeli government? Can they not just have an opinion that is valid and not be bought and paid for? I just do not understand.

To me, it is wrong. And let me continue by saying this. I mean, when did I go on a propaganda trip to Israel?

I paid for every trip I've ever been to Israel on. Don't talk at once, please. Katie. But what I can tell you, I was not there. I did not hear Bibi Netanyahu speak at the UN. But what I can tell you is that President Trump has never been bought and paid for by anyone. Bibi Netanyahu surely does not have the position that he

is in control of President Trump. If anything, President Trump has proven that he has walked away multiple times. If you believe that Bibi Netanyahu apologized to Qatar on his own free will today, I can assure you that is not the case. There's a reason why that phone call happened during his White House visit. It is because this president takes very seriously his commitment to the American people

that they will not be dragged into any more foreign wars, and that includes with Israel.

Yeah, I mean, Katie, hang on please. No, Max, wait a minute. Just to, I just want to be clear. And what's your conspiracy theory? The Soros family buys and pays for every single liberal that is existing.

Every single picture you have has Soros in it. So please sit down with me or Cale and get in the corner. Okay, but they're Americans.

They're Americans. I mean, we're witnessing a foreign meddling operation with Deborah Leah Schwartzman at the forefront as an influencer trying to put lipstick on a Holocaust.

Well, you know, I actually thought-

I'm an American citizen.

I'm a Lee American citizen.

Let me speak, please.

I flew to Israel on a paid trip. I've never been paid to fly out to Israel.

I've paid for every flight I've ever taken. Wow, this panel is what I would call insubordinate. Why can't you all take a leaf out of Alan Dershowitz's book? He's been on before, unlike most of the others, and Alan just sits there respectfully waiting for a child to talk and then says his bit and then listens to the rest of you. Try and learn from Alan Dershowitz. I would say that one of the...

I would say that one of the more insidious aspects of this entire war has been that anyone that dares criticise either side immediately gets positioned. And by the way, I've had it from both sides. So I speak from a position of authority that when I supported Israel's right to defend itself for many months into this war, I was immediately accused by many on the Palestinian

side of being some kind of Zionist monster. And then now I've been more critical of what the Israeli government's been doing this year. I've been accused of being, you know, a Hamas sympathizer. None of this helps anything.

I agree with you. I agree with you. I think you're right.

I think you're right.

Right, Alan. And, you know, you and I have discussed this. I just think it's so unhelpful to actually getting anywhere with this, because everyone Everyone in a free democratic society, we should all be free to criticize whatever we want. And all I suggest people try and do is act less tribally and be a little bit more intellectually honest, which I think I've tried to be.

Alan, on that issue, the suppression of people's opinions by branding them the worst thing you can brand them and make out that they're paid up employers, maybe some people are, right? But just to do it as a sort of brushstroke way of silencing criticism, I think that's so wrong in a democracy.

I agree with you. And if you are an agent of a country and you're paid for it, you have to register as a lobbyist. And if you don't, you're guilty of a crime. I think under the First Amendment, we have to give good faith assumption that people are speaking from their conscience, not because they're paid to speak or because they are made to speak.

And I think that the issue between Israel and the Palestinians is a complex issue. I've always thought it was a complex issue. I'm hoping maybe someday we can move to a real two-state solution where both sides can live in peace, because there are no people more intelligent, thoughtful, and industrious than the Palestinian people. And if they were free to work together with Israelis on high tech, they could turn their swords into plowshares and their atomic bombs into nuclear medicine.

The potential for the Palestinians and the Israelis working together is absolutely limitless. The problem has been the leadership. And I think it's so important that there be direct negotiations between the people themselves,

I think the vast majority of whom would like to see a peaceful solution, but it can't occur with Hamas in control. And that's why the end result has to be a two-state solution without Hamas and with people on both sides who agree to recognize the other. Now, when the countries of Europe unilaterally recognized the Palestinian state without even

asking the Palestinians to recognize Israel as the nation-state of the Jewish people or release the hostages, that created an asymmetry which made it more difficult for Israel now to move to the negotiating table. So I think that was a setback for peace. But I think, Pierce, what you're doing is promoting peace because I think you've been very honest when you've criticized Israel, very honest when you've criticized the other

side, and you've brought people on who represent both sides of the issue as long as they're given an opportunity to talk. So, congratulations, Pierce. You've done a great job.

Well, all I've done is try to be a journalist who, you know, doesn't have a personal horse in the race and wants to try and be constructive, bring people together who have very different views and try and reach some points of consensus. And sometimes that works, sometimes it doesn't.

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which is about Tony Blair, who has now been promoted as somebody who may lead in the short term, the sort of power base in Gaza as it comes out of this war. Many people pointing out, and I was editor of a Daily Mirror newspaper in England, that vehemently opposed the war in Iraq, for example, so I would be one of these people who think it's a little incongruous for somebody who bombed the hell out of Iraq to suddenly be the

peace broker running Gaza. But is there method to that madness, do you think?

What's unfortunate, great question, what's unfortunate is that the current leadership of America and allied countries is so much in the toilet that they have to look at a previous leader for consideration. And their previous leader has consideration, and that previous leader has to have the gravitas as a former head of state

in order to be considered. There's another consideration to have non-profit organizations be in charge of this. Some of those non-profits are inside of the United States of America, which creates another irony in the leadership dynamic

for how the execution may happen. But what you're seeing is a result of completely corrupt, failed and adverse leadership not being trusted. And this is why recommendations like Tony Blair even exist.

Yeah. Kate, obviously you're married to Stephen Miller, the White House deputy chief of staff. I met him for the first time in Qatar at the Emir of Qatar's state dinner for Donald Trump earlier this year and we had a very nice chat but I just was curious what you think about what happened in Doha with the Israeli strike given the context of apparently Benjamin Netanyahu during the meeting with Trump actually telephoning the Qatari Prime Minister to apologise.

I actually think that wouldn't have happened without President Trump. President Trump, I'm sure, sat him down today in the Oval Office and said, in order for the United States to come behind you and help Israel

in its intention to seek peace, you must do the right thing and apologize to Qatar. Because I think without the President's leadership, we wouldn't even be in a place to be having a place to be having these conversations to move forward

to even seek peace. It is President Trump who is continually bringing Benjamin Netanyahu to the table and bringing Hamas to the table. And if not the Palestinian people, quite frankly, I don't want to foresee a situation which the United States was not involved.

Because I do not think that would be a pretty situation.

Right. Max Blumenthal, Tony Blair, I mean a very divisive figure, obviously, but a three-time Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, enormous experience in the region. Obviously Iraq, a massive black mark over his reputation there. But is it a mad idea that somebody like Blair, who has a lot of contacts on all sides of this, runs a non-profit organization.

Is it a mad idea that in the short term he try and oversee things so that there can be a peaceful transition to a life beyond Hamas for the Palestinians that leads to ultimately, hopefully a two-state solution?

Well just real quickly on the last point, I mean, the Trump administration was told in advance of the Israeli attack on Qatar. They didn't do anything to stop it, just as they gave Israel

the green light. They were told once the attack was in play, and that did not give them any time to try and prevent anything.

That is the official. It shows the level of disrespect and power dynamics that Israel and Netanyahu can treat Trump like their own personal cook. And then transcripts from the Israeli military command show that-

Wait, and where is Benjamin Netanyahu today?

Is he in the Oval Office? The Israeli military- Well, let me just say that Netanyahu is going to be able to drag the US back into another war with Iran, just as he did before, knowing that he couldn't go in and finish a war that he started without the Trump administration going along and basically letting him escape. And most Americans don't want this. Charlie personally lobbied against this inside the White House.

No one wants American soldiers to fight and die for a crazy little apartheid state, But you have this dynamic where Miriam Adelson has contributed hundreds of millions of dollars to Donald Trump paying for his campaign. This is an Israeli asset. And now, and this goes to the Tony Blair question that Pierce asked, Larry Ellison has contributed something like $300 million to the Tony Blair Institute. And they're going to use that to collect the data of people in Gaza who will be put in,

as the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation said in its internal documents, biometric concentration camps after they're ethnically cleansed from the north. And all of these tech companies, I don't know, Katie, if Elon will be involved in this, but they will come in and reap massive contracts from this Holocaust. And Tony Blair will be shepherding in those contracts, as he did in the occupied West Bank as a so-called peace negotiator.

This is Tony Blair's real role. And what is Larry Ellison doing in the United States? He's buying Paramount to do propaganda films for Israelis. His son is buying CBS, and they'll put Barry Weiss as editor-in-chief. This is the takeover that Netanyahu outlined in the meeting with Deborah Leah

and these other influencers that they're seeking to buy and control because they've lost the propaganda war. So it is an eight front war and Donald Trump is under, as Tucker Carlson sources said, Netanyahu's thumb.

This is the worst foreign meddling that we have ever witnessed. I agree with Alan that Russiagate was a hoax. This is the real foreign meddling scandal. It's Israelgate.

All right, Alan, your response to that and to the Tony Blair report?

Well, I like the idea of Tony Blair. He's not perfect, but he has a lot of credibility. He did a great job in Northern Ireland. And I think he may be the least worst solution, but I cannot avoid commenting about Max. I mean, basically what he has said about, you know, Jews controlling this sounds like it could have been

part of the protocols of the elders of Zion.

I didn't say Jews.

He talks about Ellison. He talked, Ellison is not Israeli.

No, you just, you just insinuated.

He's a Jew.

He's- No, I said Zionists. He talks about firsters like yourselves.

Miriam Adelson, who's an American, yeah, I'm not an Israel firster. I'm an American firster. defending Jeffrey Epstein, you're defending my career. I dedicated my career to defending Bill and to defending white tail, but also to defend the Epstein and defending the ultimate wife. You want to talk about who I defend? Then talk about John Adams who defended the killers of people and the, at the beginning of the American revolution. Let's get to the merits of this thing. The idea is that America is an independent country.

Donald Trump is an independent that I what what did you say?

You you were according to new emails that have been according to new emails that were reported by Bloomberg on the 26th of this month, you advised Jeffrey Epstein and wrote Jeff you advise Jeffrey Epstein. Jeffrey Epstein is a good person who does what's his lawyer. I was his lawyer after he was indicted. I was. So did you write I was just a good person who does many good things because you say

you don't remember doing that. That just came out in an email and you impugned his victims calling the girls self-described prostitutes. So when you weren't defending Jeffrey Epstein, you're defending an apartheid state.

As a criminal, I am not offending the apartheid state. Israel is the most integrated, least apartheid state of any country in the Middle East. Right. And that's why it's annexing the West Bank. And Saudi Arabia... Where it has a minority of the population. Let me finish, please. Look, look, here's if not

everybody knows this whole time. I'm going to jump into backs.

Yeah, well, I think it's helpful

if we don't all don't know.

So there's no country in the world that is less apartheid than Israel. It has black ministers. It has Arab justices of the Supreme Court. Every Middle East country prohibits Jews from living

there, buying property. In Israel, Arabs are absolutely equal. Israel is not guilty of apartheid. It's not guilty of genocide. Max is essentially a Holocaust denier, because when he talks about things like the final solution, Holocaust supporter genocide, what he's saying, what he's saying is that these things didn't happen in Nazi Germany. The idea of Jewish children being walked into the gas did happen in Nazi Germany. And that's a Holocaust.

But that isn't happening. That isn't happening in Israel. And when you compare the two, when you compare the finish, please stop interrupting me. Stop interrupting. You called me a Holocaust denier. Self-defense you are when you call self-defense Holocaust. You're a Holocaust supporter. When you confuse trying to kill trying to kill terrorists with genocide you are a Holocaust minimizer and a Holocaust denier so let's be very clear about that.

What Israel is doing is what the United States would do. How does that make sense? denier so let's be very clear about that what is really I gotta say I don't I think that make any sense I don't think that's that is anything that Max has said so I think it's a wrong what no what I said what he said I respond in

five seconds the Holocaust by comparing it to what's going on in Gaza. Benjamin Netanyahu, your friend, blamed the Holocaust on Palestinians. Benjamin Netanyahu literally blamed the Holocaust of Jews in Europe on Palestinians.

You have to talk about who I support. Let's not talk over each other. Let me bring in the other panelists, please. There are five people on the panel. Let me bring in some of the others. If everyone keeps insulting me, I'm going to respond. Let, let me bring in Debra. I want to talk about James Comey. I will stop telling the truth about you if you stop lying about me.

You both said a lot about each other. Okay, Jeffrey Epstein, advisor. Let me ask, you know what, he was representing him. Most lawyers advise their clients. Well, you may not like it, but they do. I find it's the least effective stick we wish to beat Alan Dershowitz, honestly. I hear it time and again, and to me, people just throw that out when they lose arguments. It's pointless. Let me bring in Deborah Lee. Deborah, I want to talk to you about the indictment of FBI Director James Comey. He's been indicted on two charges of perjury. The first count relates to him telling the Congressional Committee he hadn't authorized someone else at the FBI to be anonymous source in news reports

about an FBI investigation into what the indictment describes as person one believed to be Hillary Clinton. The second count alleges that Mr. Comey did corrupt the Endeavor to influence, obstruct, and impede the panel by making false statements to it. So this relates to an appearance before the Senate Judiciary Committee in September 2020.

Now, you know, depending who you talk to, on the one hand this is justice being served and if he's guilty of these, of course he should be properly prosecuted and indeed put in prison. Others say it's Trump's revenge for what he sees as the lawfare that was waged against him, some of which I thought was ludicrous. Other stuff had merit,

but we never really got to the bottom of it. Where do you sit with this action against Comey?

So I think it's very interesting. I do think it'll be important for more information to roll out and we'll see how many of these charges stick. I think the fact that there, I believe there was a grand jury involved in this means that it's more likely that it will stick.

I think that perjury is probably the most likely cause to get him on or crime to get him on. But overall, I'm not the biggest fan, they say, oh, look, this is what we accuse him of. He's going to lock up all of his political opponents. But I do believe in justice.

And if somebody lied and if Comey lied and he said that he was not telling somebody in the FBI to go and share information with the media for that. But overall, I think the best thing that Trump can do right now is just let the FBI and the DOJ do what they need to do and stay away from this and not go on Twitter and not talk about how excited he is or anything of that sort. I think he should let justice play out

and try to stay a little bit further away from it.

Katie, I want to play a clip.

This is from James Comey reacting to his indictment. My family and I have known for years that there are costs to standing up to Donald Trump. But we couldn't imagine ourselves living any other way. We will not live on our knees, and you shouldn't either. Somebody that I love dearly recently said that fear is the tool of a tyrant, and she's right. But I'm not afraid, and I hope you're not either.

I hope instead you are engaged, you are paying attention and you will vote like your beloved country depends upon it, which it does. My heart is broken for the Department of Justice, but I have great confidence in the federal judicial system, and I'm innocent. So let's have a trial and keep the faith.

Katie, I suppose the obvious question is whether this is all just revenge by Donald Trump against those who made his life hell. What do you think?

It's impossible for it to be revenge because President Trump was unaware that this was an ongoing criminal investigation prior to the charges being announced. The Eastern District of Virginia after Eric was fired. So what you're looking at is somebody who is guilty, who went on and own another video months after President Trump was out of office in 2021 and said that he

was going to look for all available charges to prosecute President Trump, and that's what they did. The moment the DOJ became politicized, that was the Russia hoax. Then it was impeachment. And then it continued on to President Trump after he was out of office, whether that be the Mar-a-Lago raid, where FBI showed up at his home and went through his boxes, and then

charged him with a crime when they went to the same home of that of Joe Biden, found similar files, and did nothing with it because he was a two-tier justice system in which one goes after their political opponents, and one looks for a real crime, which James Comey did do, by persecuting the former president of the United States. To me this is a justice system that is rightfully going after somebody who is spinning the truth, who is intentionally lying and intentionally misleading the American people. I look forward

to him having his day in court because he will be found guilty.

Alan Dershowitz, from a legal perspective, what's your view of this indictment of Comey?

Well, you know, both things could be true. That is, it could be that he is technically guilty of the two crimes. One is Section 1001, that is making a false statement of Congress and second, obstructing justice. But it may also be true that he would never have been prosecuted for this had he not been opposed and an enemy to Donald Trump. And that's what lawfare is all about. Generally in lawfare, they go after people who have done something, committed some technical

crime, but selectively prosecute them. They did that, obviously, with Donald Trump in New York when they had to make up a crime, the failure to list payments as hush money, but listing it as legal payments, statute of limitations expired. In that case, they had to make up a crime. In this case, they don't have to make up a crime. There's an actual crime, two crimes, obstruction of justice and reporting falsely to Congress. And the question is, are the elements of these crime met? But even if they are,

technically, if it could be established that he never would have been prosecuted but for the fact that he was an enemy, then he could raise the defence of selective prosecution and targeting. Hard to do, but it's possible. He has a sympathetic judge and that sympathetic judge may rule, in fact, that this is an improper prosecution

even if there was technically a crime committed. So it's complicated. Max Blumenthal, I mean if he did commit these crimes why shouldn't he

be properly investigated? Well Donald Trump was targeted with lawfare. I mean let's face it and the Russia collusion narrative was a hoax. We exposed this at the gray zone even though we're identified with the left we're not partisan but what we're seeing here seems to go a lot further than James Comey or John Bolton, someone who should be jailed for war crimes and coup mongering, which he's bragged about around the world, but won't be in this case.

I mean, it looks like the enemies list of the White House goes well beyond these figures deep into the American public. Just look at the new bulletin that was issued by the White House on domestic violent extremism, which defines anti-Americanism, anti-capitalism, and anti-Christianity, extremism on migration, right, race, and gender,

and hostility towards those who hold traditional American views on family, religion, and morality as evidence of potential terrorism. And I guess, you know, traditional American views on family and morality wouldn't include Donald Trump. But I mean, I consider what just happened

with Stephen Miller's underling, Borders R. Tom Homan, where he was found to have taken $50,000 in a bag of cash for a bribe to the White House to be an example of capitalism run amok. So Katie, does that make me a domestic extremist or a potential terrorist?

And how far, I know you said that, you told Jesse Waters, that your husband's rants get you going in the morning. Has he ranted about any other people on this enemies list? And if so, who are they?

I think the fact that the FBI ran just a few days ago, we'll put you more on that list.

I haven't, I mean, what are you talking about?

Why was the FBI going after Tom Homan and creating an entire fake concoction of a story, create a concrete concoction of a, just to go after Tom Homan. I would ask why the FBI authorized that investigation. Was it, in my understanding, the FBI, in order to do so, would have had to have a previous ongoing investigation in which they came across this.

That is not the case in this instance. What they're doing is going after political enemies and people to entrap people close to President Trump, just as they did to my family. Let us not remind you how many times I've had my door knocked in pre-dawn raids by the FBI, by the U.S. Marshals,

how much millions of dollars I've had to pay for political apology of my husband and of President Trump. That is not political retribution. He has committed a crime, and I'm glad to see our DOJ going after those who have committed crimes in our country because our country is nothing but a place for laws and order the same way we're enforcing our

borders across the country we are going to do so with the laws currently on our books.

Katie just one point. Was it wrong for Tom Holman to take $50,000?

I was going to ask one question about that to Katie, which is just the one curious aspect of the Homan case, which wasn't taken any further forward. So there's no evidence it was a bribe by the definition of the law of bribery. However, I've not seen Tom Homan deny that he took a bag of 50 grand in cash.

And that does, I mean, if it was the other way round, and this was somebody in the Biden administration, you guys would all be screaming blue murder. Why did he take 50 grand in a bag of cash?

Was it a bag of cash, or is that just the words you're using, Piers? I would be very clear and precise with the language we're using to describe what happened. What I'm understanding is that the FBI create out of folklore a concoction to go into Tom

Homan and who knows what was said in that conversation. But what I know of the FBI before President Trump took office is they are not honorable or honest individuals. They served one cause.

No, no, sure. Listen, I'm not getting into it. But Casey, Casey, just to be clear, I'm not getting into the sort of wider thing about the FBI or anything else. I'm just asking, it's been noticeable to me, including when he went on Fox and stuff, that Tom Homan, who I interviewed here just several weeks ago, he's not denied accepting the 50 grand in cash and I'm just curious as to whether

you know what he accepted it for. I have no idea, honestly, Piers, I have no idea if he did or didn't take the cash. I haven't spoken with Tom about this at all. I quite frankly haven't kept up with every interview Tom Homan has done. I'm sure it's many on many different networks. But what I can tell you though,

is my anger is purely directed at the FBI. Because in any situation, you should never create out of whole cloth an entrapment just to try to put your political opponents in jail. And that's what they've done. James Comey committed a crime on his own accord. What they're trying to do is get Tom Homan

to commit a crime for them to go charge him with.

Okay. I think, look, I just think, I just said that the White House has dismissed the reports. The White House spokesman Caroline Leavitt denied the accusation, saying Homan did absolutely nothing wrong. But there's been actually no specific denial

by Tom Homan or anybody else on his behalf that he accepted the money. And I think that is something that just is worthy of scrutiny as it would be for anybody. So we will see where that all leads. Dr. Rishi, let me just end with you here.

James Comey, it seems to me we're now into a perpetual lawfare on both sides and I'm not sure that enhances or helps American democracy. If each new administration spends most of its time trying to imprison all its opponents, then America will just end up diving into a sort of abyss of recrimination and revenge. That can't be good.

I agree. You're damn right it can't be good. And here's the reality of it. You only have a certain amount of energy every day. I don't care who you are. And if your job is to solve problems for the everyday person in a nation, you don't have enough energy, enough mental power,

enough political power to do that when you are set on revenge of folk that have talked bad about you, or individuals that may have actually done something that was substantive that hurt you. And here's where we are, the pendulum,

swinging back and forth. So one administration, okay, I can grant you, the Justice Department has not been corrupt-free since day one. But black folks said that in the 60s. And if we would have taken a different look

at the Justice Department then, instead of saying, well, the Justice Department is good under one president and bad under the other, hell, there's been corrupt factors with the Justice Department since we've been talking about it.

So where do we actually solve the issue? Well, the issue is related to administration. It goes deeper than that. It's cultural. And if they're able to have a point of reference to target you, but you happen to be black or brown, they have another point of reference to target somebody close to you, and they

happen to not be black or brown. Now they have a reference to target the other person close to them who may be in a socioeconomic status that would seemingly not be prosecuted for something so small. It continues to go and that's the real issue that we have to discuss.

Yeah, no, I agree. Alan, we've run out of time. I'm sorry. I'd love to come back on this Alan within another time because it's really an ongoing thing, but I do worry about where it all leads.

It goes back. It goes back to Thomas Jefferson targeting Aaron Burr. We've had it from the very beginning. It's wrong, it should stop. There should be an absolute rule prohibiting targeting anybody and focusing on the person first. That's what Stalin and Beria said when Beria said to Stalin, show me the man and I'll find you the crime. And tragically, both sides have been following Lavrentiy Beria and rather than the frown,

the framers of our constitution.

Yeah, I agree. We're gonna leave it there. Thank you all very much. Deborah didn't walk out by the way, she was always gonna leave at that time because she had a hard out and we ran on but thank you to the rest of you for staying and I appreciate the debate thank you. Today's show is brought to you by Oxford Natural makers of the Optimum Day and Optimum Night

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I'm Piers Morgan, I'm a black lesbian.

Hollywood has been trying to remove masculinity for it seems like the last decade.

There were tears that ran down my face,

but I did not cry.

I mean, that's crying.

Your tweet about a sex tape coming next is quite devastating. but I did not cry. I mean, that's crying.

Your tweet about a sex tape coming next is quite disgusting. Inevitable.

And incredibly disgusting.

Americans are fat pigs and British people have effed up teeth, but we're allies.

When we say good genes are the ones that...

What a load of crap. I saw Beyonce do a jeans ad. Everybody drooled over it. Should trans athletes have their own category now? Should trans athletes have their own category now? What's the answer?