“SAAT LEWAT MASJID RASANYA HATI ADEM!”

Samantha is the younger sister of Darius Sinatria. So, Samantha is a Muslim. Were you a Christian or Catholic? Catholic. A few months later, my mom passed away. How old was she? 3 and a half.

Did you get angry because God took your mom away? Not angry, but sad.

Sad.

Why did my mom leave me? Why didn't she invite me? Many people who know my mom always say, Your mom is a good person. But I never feel that she's good to me. Because she passed away when I was still a kid. Why did you choose Islam? When I was in college, I walked to the campus and I passed this mosque

and I thought, I want to enter and it was so attractive I started to try to pray but it was a movement prayer

And you haven't given up yet?

Not yet

What surprised me was that when I did the movements, I felt calm

I want to give my perfume, this is a business of Indonesian children

I want to give it to Sam to accompany the month of Ramadan in fasting.

Thank you.

Thank you, Sam.

Samantha, assalamualaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh. Waalaikumsalam.

Beautiful, what's her name? Soleha. And you are so soft spoken. How are you? We will explain first, before I ask you about yourself.

Samantha is the younger sister of Darius Sinatria.

Correct.

So, Darius has how many siblings? There are four.

All of them are pretty?

Let the people judge.

You're pretty, Darius is pretty.

Are the two of you on the same level of prettiness? You're pretty, Darius is pretty, are you both pretty? Pretty is relative, right? If you're ugly, you're a total loser. Okay, so four people, Darius first? Darius is number two, the first one is a woman, I'm the third. Okay, you're the third and under you is?

There's another man.

Okay, are you healthy, Sam?

I'm healthy, Alhamdulillah.

Alhamdulillah. Alhamdulillah or praise to God?

Praise to God, it's the same.

It's neutral. Neutral. Okay. I invited Samantha because I was friends with Donna and Darius.

But I never knew, I just saw them yesterday, honestly, when was it again? The news went up again.

The news went getting bigger. It's been a while. Samantha is a Muslim. Were you a Christian or Catholic? Catholic. I think it's perfect for Ramadan. Even though I'm a Christian Protestant.

But I think everyone has a spiritual journey... ...to get closer to their Creator... ...in different ways. Maybe sometimes we think, how can he do that? But, if he's a pastor, he's just a layman.

Am I right? Only God knows. Only God knows the path of every person. So, Samantha, let's get to know you deeper. How old are you, Samantha? I'm 37 this year.

I'm just kidding.

Proud and loud. Yes. Praise God I'm just kidding. Proud and loud. Of course.

Praise God, you made it.

You're 37 years old. So you were born Catholic or Christian? Catholic.

Catholic. My mom is Catholic. My dad was Muslim.

Okay. Then when we were all baptized Catholic, my dad joined the Catholic Church. Oh, so this is like, what is it called? What is it called? I was baptized Catholic, and my dad joined the Catholic Church. Oh, so this is like a cycle in life, in a family. Yes, because my dad came from a multicultural family. He has a variety of backgrounds, and a variety of religious tolerance.

While my mom is from Catholic Rome. So, I don't know how my dad's journey was. I don't know. But, I'm more of a person who likes to go on spiritual trips. You're happy. I'm more like that. There are times when I want to know, there are so many questions.

So I really dig all of them. The one that I like the most is this. Okay, but it's interesting, as we get older, we find that there are two types of people in the spiritual, I think. I think there are people who look for, like my brother-in-law, he likes to research,

to find what suits me, what is comfortable, what is the most suitable for a child. Or there is also, actually most of us are hereditary, so if we are born like me, because of my father-in-law, the last Christian, maybe if I was born from a Padang family, maybe I would wear a hijab today, right?

It means that it is a hereditary religion, but it's comfortable to look for. People are different. So, when you married your mom, was it a different religion or did you convert to Christianity? It's still different. Because my marriage was in Switzerland in 1978.

That's so cool.

Your parents have already arrived in Switzerland. That's cool. They met your parents in Switzerland, right? Where did they meet?

In Switzerland. My mom is originally from Switzerland. Oh, so you're a mix of Swiss and... You just found out? Yes! I thought you were a mix of Swiss and... Okay, so your dad is from Switzerland, right? My dad is from Java.

So, sorry, your mom is a real Bule? Yes, just like me.

But, Bule, not mixed? No, mixed. Bule, the first generation. So, just like me and my husband? Yes, just like your husband. I see.

So, they met in Switzerland. Your mom is Roman Catholic. And your dad is Javanese. And my mom wanted Switzerland, a Roman Catholic, and my dad was a Javanese. And my mom wanted to be a nurse.

Wow, your dad's voice is so powerful.

The purpose of life of a woman has changed. I met my dad when he was in a band. He was a guitar player. He was in a player in a cafe, a young people's event. My mom was there,

I was so nervous when I met him.

Oh my God, I'm so jealous.

So they got married with different beliefs. But there was no religious marriage there.

Yes. Until what year,

when they decided to convert you to Catholicism? We lived in Jogja at that time. I was about 2 years old. We were all baptized there. Not long after that, my dad moved to another city. A few months later, my mom passed away.

So, it was a little bit of a mess. I don't really remember. Because I was only 3 years old.

How old were you when your mom passed away?

3 and a half years old.

3 and a half years old? You lost your mom?

Yes.

I was a Piatu's child.

Piatu's daughter, wow.

After that, did your father move to Katolik after your mother passed away? No, a few months before. Okay, after that, he got married again? Yes, 5 years later. Okay, so you have a step-mom. Yes, but we live in different house.

At first, we live in one house, but after 4 years, we move to another house. So, we live in our own house, and my dad move back and forth. So, you live with? With my brother.

Oh, with Darius and all that.

Yes.

At that time, there was a Buddhist woman, in Java, there is an older woman, my father, a Buddhist woman, accompanied us. There was also an assistant who took care of everything. Why did you get surprised when your mother contacted you? She wanted to work, so the location was very far.

So to make it easier to live, so you guys finally have a different house. Different house. Okay, so, sorry, stepmom is also Muslim? No, Catholic. Catholic too, okay.

So you're actually surrounded by Catholic people, all the family. Until finally, at what age when you started looking for a job?

Maybe when I was in high school. So, the background is like this. My dad had a farm in Jogja. We lived with the farmers, but we lived in different houses. But we lived on the same land. So there were a lot of conversations from other people,

whose background is not from the family background. And my father's family is also very diverse. So there are a lot of people exposed to various things. Then finally, when I was in high school, I was like, why is the teacher like this? Is it really like this?

So, the young kid who is just being critical, like questions that are actually silly, like this, try Adam not eating apples, maybe we all won't be punished. Right?

You're crazy, you're thinking, you're a thinker. Why should it be apple? Why not blueberry? If I were an apple, would we be sinful if we eat apple now? So, you had a lot of questions in high school.

Yes, a lot. Maybe since I was younger. But when I was younger, the questions were still about life. Why do people behave like that? Why don't people behave like a society? Why are there good people and bad people?

In high school, the ability to think was getting more abstract. So the questions were also getting more abstract. People felt, why doesn this child have no faith? Whereas what I need is just logical answers. Maybe the story will be very different if at that time I get a logical answer.

What do you still remember? Maybe for people in the past, they thought you were a bit annoying. This child is so annoying. Just accept it. But actually behind that, there is actually intellectuality that I think needs to be answered.

Because there are many questions in your mind at that time.

For example, what is it that you ask and then maybe you don't get the answer?

Like this, we say that if we want to confess our sins, we go straight to God. But why do we have to report it to the priest? In a room? If it's only the angels and God who record our sins and good deeds, why do we have to open it to the priest?

I see.

In Catholicism, there's a room. Yes. And it's actually closed, we don't face each other, but we tell each other but we are sharing stories. We are already doing our sins. So, the priest will know our secrets.

Whether he can really protect us or not. Or if he can answer the insecure questions of the child. And then, what was your answer from your father? I didn't just ask my father. I asked many people. I was also active in the church as an altar girl.

Oh my god.

I asked people.

You're an altar girl?

No one knows about people's life. No one knows. Wow, okay. I also asked pastors and priests. Why? I asked them about my background.

I went to high school. Back then, high school was called Defensi Code. Do you remember?

I remember that book.

That's how it started. It was between fiction and real. The movie too. I found out that there was a data. I wanted to know. So I started to dig deeper.

You dug? Yes. You watched the lot? Yes, I read a lot.

You watched a lot of movies, and read a lot of books.

I read all kinds of books. But the latest one, I haven't read yet. I'm still young, I'm still reading books. I have to work later. So you read a lot. My dad, even though he's a Catholic,

he has a high, he's still very tolerant. So we like to go to religious exhibitions. Religious exhibitions!

Wow, so we go to make-up exhibitions, skin care exhibitions, religious exhibitions. Wow, you're so cool Samantha!

So you wanted to know more about him? Yes, and he was like Yes, and he supported me. He said, come here. But at that time, he didn't see any movement of my son to rebel or to convert to religion. He didn't kiss you yet?

Not yet. He was just curious. So he said, let's come when he's here. And then, when I was in college. Before college, I went to Switzerland to meet my grandparents. And there, it happened.

The spiritual clash. Because I also went to church with my grandmother. Then there was a conversation. Actually, religion there is not really being practiced anymore. It's a different era compared to 20-30 years ago. So, now many people don't go to church.

My grandmother was surprised. Why do you invite me to church? What are you doing? Because in some western countries... By the way, just a guess, there are some shopkeepers up there,

there are many empty churches. Because people have, maybe they don't do rituals to go to the church anymore. Even in America, if I'm not mistaken, some churches were bought

by Muslims. They were made as a shelter, and then they were disused. Because the buildings are empty. with a Muslim, and if there's no shelter, it's just a waste of space.

Okay, because the village is empty.

Yes, it's empty. Okay, and you finally met your grandmother and grandfather in Switzerland. Which is, they are also Catholic. Yes, they are Catholic, but they don't do the rituals anymore. We talked a lot, and I saw a lot I saw from my grandfather's journey, especially, he felt a lot of grief.

And, especially when my mother passed away. So, it's related to transgenerational trauma. Yes. So, because usually the child who passed away earlier before the parents, the parents will be more sad than the child who lost their parents. So, he was very sad and he felt that religion did not help his grief. So, it triggered me to talk to Sam.

He was very grieving. He was very grieving and he grieving and lonely. Poor her. And then, for her journey, what was the trigger for your spiritual journey? I got a similarity, that while I was doing this ritual with a lot of tattoos, there was a chapel at home.

There was a chapel at home? Yes, a small chapel. For prayer? Yes, for prayer. But in Jogja, there was a room for prayer. So, we prayed together every night.

We put candles and prayed together. So, you're a Catholic?

Yes, I am.

I go to church every Sunday. So you're not just a rock and roll singer, but you're a Catholic, and you have a strong religious ritual. Yes, I do. But I never share my grief with my dad.

What my dad taught me was just, let's pray for mom, so mom can enter heaven. So it's more on the positive side. Maybe the approach is more towards men. So it's more rational. But with my grandma,

the approach is from the side of a woman's family and the emotional perspective. So we share our sorrows together. I also feel that way. I'm doing this ritual and everything, but I feel empty. I don't know how to accept my mom is no longer there and living without a mother. What is it like?

Meanwhile, she also feels the same. I lost my first child and I feel like I'm really wrong to be his parent. So sharing the grief is there. Oh so the grieving feeling is what somehow leads you to find your awakening call. Yes, one of the awakening call to find out if there is a better one. So, the grieving feeling helps you to find the right path. The one that suits you.

Because if we say which one is right, everyone has their own right. Okay, Sam. Did your mother die when you were only 3 and a half years old? Somehow it became your wound as a child, actually? If in theory, actually a 3-year-old child't tell the difference between my parents. But as I grew up, I felt like there was something wrong.

There was something wrong. The insecure, critical kid who wanted to know a of things, but don't get the right answer. At that time, my dad often gave a normative answer that was quite safe. Maybe he didn't want his son to be in trouble. But when I entered adolescence, he started to compare me. Don't be like your mom.

Which is your mom already passed away? Yes, or you should be like your mom. So, in every situation, there's a different reaction. Sometimes you should be like your mom, sometimes you can't. That's what makes the question bigger. Why is that?

I don't know what my mom is like. I'm not told. I only know from photos or when I was sending letters, or when I was on the phone with my grandparents. I know a little bit from them or from people who knew my mom back then. My mom is nice, this and that.

But why did my dad say that I'm not like my mom at all? Or don't be like my mom. Which part is this? The portions are confusing. Because I didn't get the whole story, the pieces of the puzzle that I tried to find. When I went to Switzerland, I met my grandparents, my mom's friends. Then I got the complete story from their version.

Which maybe they talk more about what's going on. I was more like their person, who talks more openly. Then I went back to Indonesia, and I started to learn from there. I learned a lot, but I still felt like I shouldn't. They say we still have to follow the religion that we inherited. So there are processes. I was healing the wound, I was healing the wound,

I felt peaceful, I could forgive myself. I grew up without a mother. When I was in college, I walked to the campus, I passed this mosque. I wanted in college, I walked to the campus and passed this mosque.

I wanted to enter, I was attracted to the positive atmosphere. From there, I started to... Without understanding about Islam at that time? Not yet, because that was the last religion I studied. Ah, so you were Catholic since you were a child. What religion did you first get interested in researching?

Buddhism. Yes. So you did research on what Buddhism is like and all that. And it looked very healthy. With the diet. And the food was healthy.

Yes, there were a lot of vegetarians. And then, And healthy food. Yes, a lot of vegetarian.

And then, Hindu, Jewish. You mean you also checked,

or researched Hindu, even Jewish. Yes, so I read it, I looked it up. Because, back then, it was after 9-11,

the issue of Islamophobia was very high.

So that's why it was the last thing I studied. So if I didn't move to be a boarding school student, I used to live at home, so I became a boarding school student because of college. So I didn't go through the mosque, I called it. Which area is it?

Groggol.

Groggol?

The campus is in Untar, right?

Oh, you're from Untar? I'm from Trisakti, our neighbor. Which campus? The one behind Jalan Gang? Tawakal.

Tawakal, the place where you like to buy books and coffee. Oh, I see.

Oh, I see. Oh, that mosque. I want to call you. Wow, I passed by there, everyone is different. Maybe it's hot. Maybe it's hot. But every time I passed by that mosque, it's cool.

My friend at that time was more varied. Because I was in a Catholic school. But in high school, it was a state high school. So, there were of Muslim friends. I met a lot of Muslims during my college years.

They would pray, wait for me, and accompany me. They would ask me questions. I would read about Islam. I realized that Islam is not as bad as people who talk about Islamophobia. Was there a time when you lost your mother at a very young age? Do you feel like you see your children or your teenagers getting older,

and you still need a mother, someone else, your relative has a mother. Do you feel like, God, why me? Is there anger because God took your mom away? Not angry, but sad.

Sad.

Why did my mom leave me? Why didn't I get invited?

Really?

Yes, it's always on my mind. Because for me, it's not comfortable living alone. Of course. I cannot imagine 3 and a half years, you don't have a mom. Wow, so you're not angry with God, but sad why mom left me and why I'm left alone here. Because that's the feeling, the feeling of loneliness.

Maybe it will be much different if I get answers from my questions. So, because it's a good intention, people are definitely good intentions. To take care of their children, not wanting their children to be sick because maybe they are sick too. Later on, I know, for example, from my father's point of view, when we are adults, he wants to tell me, but when he is old enough. But the answer is not the answer, he said, I'll wait for you to grow up.

That's not the answer. So, the approach is different. But it can't be said wrong, that's the best thing he understood at that time. Yes, because there was a time when I was angry with my dad, I'm a normal psychologist,

when I just finished psychology, I felt the smartest.

The most psychologist.

I asked him, why is he like that? Why is he not like this? His theory is like this. He said, no, that's the best you can do.

What did you ask him?

Until you argued? A lot. Why is he always... ...making fun of me? I'm like my dad's trash bin.

You feel like that.

Not feeling.

It is like that.

It is like that. So, what my dad experienced, he always told me. But he's not a swindler. But in psychology, it's called displacement.

What's that?

So, I should be mad at Melanie. But I'm mad with someone else. Oh, so you're a clown. That's what happened. And because I look so similar to my mom, do you want me to show you?

Do you? Oh, you look so similar. So you, the late mother, Sabrina, are all similar, right? Darius's daughter and the last donor. Guys, you should see this. I've been looking at the plates, Sabrina looks like my mom.

Wow, you look so much like your mom. So every time I see you, maybe your dad is reminded of his wife's house, right?

Yes, so what always appears is sad, but? Yes. But maybe he doesn't realize it, he misses it. But this is a child, I have to take care of it. So I feel that... Papa has a great love for it. He wants to protect it, but he doesn't have enough capacity. At that time, there were also many roles and responsibilities that were borne.

Yes, there were four children. Yes, so I had to share the tasks and so on, I had to earn money too. Yes, that's right. So it wasn't easy, my father wasn't easy. Finally, why did you choose Islam? Because when I started reading, I read the book of Prophet Muhammad from Martin Lings,

who is a professor of Islamic history. He really studied Islamic history. His writing is really good. So, page by page of the book made me cry. It's like I felt relieved. It turns out that the life of the Prophet is also hard,

not only my life is hard. Because you feel that your life is really hard since I was a child, without my mother. It turns out that you get the idea of ​​the life of others, even the Prophet is very hard. Yes, even the Prophet's class, his life is hard. Then finally, I started trying to pray at that time. But a movement prayer, not with the prayer.

And you're not a Muslim yet?

Not yet. You're still Catholic? Not yet. Not yet. I tried, what surprised me was that when I did the movement, it made me feel calm.

Really? Wow. So at that time my best friend said, he also came from a family with different religions. They freed him to choose when he was an adult. I asked him, what made you choose your religion now?

He said, Manta, try this. When you are alone, you don't have anyone, what can make you feel calm? And at that time I was really alone, I didn't have anyone, just in the dormitory, college. As far from family? Yes, and then, finally I was curious at that time, so I tried to pray for people,

if this prayer is accepted, maybe this is my way. You took a test. And finally, it was answered. Still, it's just one try. Who knows it's a coincidence. And I tried again, the second one. You're right.

It happened again. Oh, it turns out that if we... This is what I got from my experience. So, if we are sincere in praying to people, it is accepted. And because of the good intention,

maybe this is the way. People say that's the guidance.

I see.

Then I finally fulfilled it, from that vision. Okay. Which is you have started, I mean, you have finally said the Shahadah. Yes, at that time. I was witnessed, and then I got a certificate to change at KTP. Oh, if you change religion, right?

Yes. Do you get a certificate? Must. I don't know about other religions.

But if you convert to Islam, you get a certificate?

Yes, I get a certificate. From a mosque? At that time, it was like that in the KUA or a mosque. So, obviously, the KTP was replaced, right? Yes, with the certificate. So, if there was no certificate, you couldn't change the KTP.

At that time, yes. Okay. If now, I don't know. What year was that? 2009. December, if I'm not mistaken.

Wow, which mosque?

At that time, I was in Kauastia Budi.

Okay.

Did anyone accompany you?

Did you have a witness? Yes, of course.

Who was the witness?

Your father?

No.

My brother. Your brother? My Muslim brother. I was afraid to tell him. But I dared to tell him. He was shocked. What did you say to him?

I said, I'm sorry. Maybe he wouldn't be proud of what I said, sorry, maybe you won't be proud of what I said. But I've made my choice, I've made up my mind, I want to move. Then he was shocked, he was angry. He was angry? Yes.

But he was Muslim, right? Yes, it's normal. I mean, maybe he didn't expect that to happen in his life. It was repeated. It was like a cycle of life. Yeah, and then he got angry and all that.

What did he say to you at that time? He said he didn't want to see me as a kid anymore. I said, it's okay, I'm still his daughter. If he feels that way today, it's okay, I'll accept it. You weren't angry? No, I've learned psychology.

If he's angry, you just accept it? I just accept it. Of course I'm disappointed. Then, when he was sick, he had a stroke. He said that his version was dead. I don't know if it's true or not. After that, he called me and apologized. He said that when he fell and died, he met the angel. And the angel told him to apologize to him.

There's something that hasn't been done. So if he wants to die peacefully, he has to be nice to me. So when you were pregnant, you didn't talk to your dad for a long time? On and off. How long?

I mean, was your dad cold?

Not long, I think. How long? I think it's been 6 months since I called him, we were still fighting, and then 3 months later, he's still mad at me. But when I was in my second year of college,

he started to melt. So when I called him, he was laughing and joking. What made you not to change your decision to be a Muslim? Even though your father said that if you convert to Islam, you will not be his daughter anymore. There is an interesting situation. When I graduated from high school, I worked in a psychology bureau. My supervisor asked me the same question.

I said, no, this is my life choice. But according to her, you just want to free yourself, right? So I said, maybe by freeing myself, I can be a more independent woman. I can live the life I want without control from my family. Maybe that's the right word. Everything is by my choice.

The consequences, the pleasure, from my choice, I will bear it. Yes, because maybe I am one of the strong wild children. I'm like a strong child. Obviously, because usually people, if their family is very stable, then suddenly someone moves, not everyone is democratic, accepting. And that's how open-minded the language is now.

But usually, the words or sentences that are often said by parents are, if you move, you leave the family card, you will no longer be my child. And many also go back and forth, because they are afraid of hurting the hearts of parents. But still in the time after you became a Muslim, even though your father was angry with you,

you still prayed for him, right?

Yes, always. I mean, as a parent, I learned psychology, I understand the dynamics. It's okay, just go ahead. So, at that time,

my ex-husband said, you have to be empathize with your father. Because life as your father is not easy, Sam. I remember the sentence, I'm your husband, I like to feel heavy.

Especially being your father.

Especially being your father, you have a lot of children, and each child has a unique character. So you should try, learn to be empathetic. If you are in your father's position, are you strong enough to handle a child like this?

I see.

By the way, how was it for you when you knew you wanted to move to Yakinan? Maybe you should ask Darius.

I will ask him later, private and public.

How was it? I'm curious. I will ask Ed Sampon later, private and public.

How was it? But he was the one who was like, don't be mad at your dad. Or just do whatever you want. There are moments like that. There's always a persuasion. Yes, I want to be a good son.

But I said, our also has a different background. Why can't I choose to decide what I want? So for me, maybe it's the process of maturing and the process of life. So I'm on the path where I can survive as Samantha. I don't want to be in an environment where they only remember the sadness. So they see me and remember my mom.

So they see me sad, it's not good.

Samantha often feels that way, right? People see you and remember your mom. Oh, sorry to hear that. I can't say I have empathy, but I can... I cannot imagine how you've been through.

Living without your mom is a hard world for me. I'm sorry. Like, what is it? A lot of people who know my mom always say, your mom is a good person. But I never felt that she was good to me. Because she died when I was still a kid. And I feel, this is just my subjective opinion,

because I'm very similar to my mom. So I like to feel that what my dad did... ...in the process of growing up, I just remember... ...him and my mom. And that makes him sad. And if he's like that, it's better for me to stay away.

Because I don't want to either. This is not my choice to be like Almarhumah. So, like, at the body image level, maybe it's better if my face is ugly. There are moments like that.

So, I'm really like Almarhumah. Yes, because being like your mom, maybe many families feel it's a blessing. Like a gift, a feeling. But for me, I don't feel that. But I make my dad sad.

So he always feels homesick, feels guilty. So I'm like a trigger. I miss him, I feel guilty. I'm like a trigger. He's the trigger. So, what am I for? I'd rather live the life I chose. But I can be happy and they don't have to be reminded of the trigger.

No more triggers.

That's why you are... People say, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. I think there's a truth to that. That's why you are strong. If you want something, you do the research. You find out.

You go for it. What people say, this is my choice. Because you are... You should be used to... At the end, rely on yourself. And 3 and a half years, you don't have your mom, and your face is so similar to your mom,

like everybody, every time they see you, they remind you of your mom, it turns out it's not easy for you.

Yes, because every time I gather my family, they always praise me. Samantha, you're getting bigger, prettier, more like a mother. And at the end, there will be a conversation that... I don't know, maybe my dad misses me or he's disappointed. So what made me, at that time, in the eyes of the little boy, maybe I always made him sad,

I couldn't make him happy with my presence. So there is a feeling, what am I doing here if every time Papa sees me, he's sad too? Yes, there is something like that, but yes But it's in the past. Wow. So, there are not many pretty people. People say, you're so pretty, Samantha. It turns out that you even made that statement.

The important thing is that the people around you can be happy.

Because it turns out that when I went to Switzerland with my grandmother, I was given photos of my mother when I was young. It was really similar, I didn't know what my mother's body language was like. I only lived for three and a half years. It was exactly the same, her body language, her habits. So I didn't choose to be with him.

That's God's will. By the way, how did you die?

I fell down. I was pregnant and fell down. Your younger brother was pregnant? Yes, and no one knew. So, it was too late to find out. Maybe it's all kinds of things that made you feel guilty in the end.

Yes, because I lost two of them. So your younger brother also died?

Yes. Oh my God, sorry.

So today, how many years have you been a muhalaf? In 2009, maybe 15 or 14 years. Okay, 14 years. What do you feel after you become a muhalaf?

What things that different with a samantha?

It's calmer.

So you finally found that peace feeling? Yes.

In Islam? Yes, it peaceful. And I feel like my life is less dramatic. Less dramatic, and I can achieve a lot of my wishes. Even though I'm involved in a hard job. Then, I felt more empowered as a woman. Because I can't imagine if I'm not a Muslim and I have the problems that I have been through in my marriage, so there is no option as an Islamist, I have an option.

And women's rights are much more protected, everything is regulated. So I feel like a democratic religion religion, because everything is already set. Like divorce, sharing of the heritage, then the calculation of how people are responsible, etc. responsibility and so on. There is no perfect woman, but at least, I think, with the democratic system, we become aware of it.

And become a leader who can really make women more appreciated. Because the development, if we say, Prophet Muhammad is from the 7th century, it has made women very modern with the existence of Islam. Before that, there was no such thing.

Even in Europe, in the 1800s, women were still acting as things that could be bought. While in Islam, it was not. So it was already respected. Then like Prophet Muhammad also married his first wife, who was older.

So in our country, what is it, a woman and a brondong? This is more democracy, that the soul does not look at age. So I think the wisdom is more

there. Okay, it suits you. So it brings peace in you in carrying out this new religion.

Yes.

What is the hardest thing when you become a Muslim? The fasting, because Catholic is fasting, but it is not different from a Muslim who fasts for one month. The fasting or the five-time prayer, what is the hardest? Or maybe you have to wear hijab, maybe not difficult, but what is more challenging for you as a mu'alaf? Maybe going to Hajj.

Going to Hajj.

The cost is expensive.

Have you ever?

I have. You have, you have.

Do you have a plan to go to Hajj?

Of course, right? Yes, God willing. God willing. Do you have any plan to wear hijab?

Not yet.

One step at a time. My profession is also about neutrality. So, as much as possible, we are neutral, universal. So, spiritual and religious matters are just to be a part of my life. But in appearance and everything, as long as we are polite and polite.

Yes, yes.

So it doesn't bother people. Yes, and it doesn't bother people. And it's also neutral, because in the principles of psychology, we can't bring religious basics.

Oh, I see.

So we have to look at the client, not our own beliefs. Okay, Sam, to close, there are two last questions. If you could look back and you want to talk with the little Samantha, the little Samantha back then, what would you like to tell the little Samantha? Because she will go through a lot of things, but what would you say to this little girl? Sam, just be calm.

What you do will be useful for many people.

Amen. Yes. So take it easy, one step at a time. One day, if you see your mom again What would you say to her?

You mama Polo agency Now my mom on a pop and you guys do you think that your mom proud of you this honor Can I get a psychologist a good at ring at a impian India Wow of you? So you're living her dream. I think every child will miss their mother, no matter how old they are when their mother dies. So even though we are 60 years old and our mother just died, we will miss her. So I just want to say, look what I've done. I can be where I am now, it's definitely because of my mom's spirit of struggle. Maybe she didn't realize it.

We don't know, in the context of life, there are many layers. From the psychological side, we can explain transgenerational trauma, or what the family psychology should be like, the principles, from the approach of energy, what it should be like. There are so many layers. So, maybe we are actually walking in a different universe, I don't know.

But the similarities, including the way of thinking, many of my mother's family told me. So when they meet me, they always feel happy. The energy. So they always feel, like my sunshine is coming. I always feel welcomed.

I don't feel alone when I'm in their community. In Switzerland. So they feel closer to my heart. That's what I feel with my mom too. Even though we don't meet physically, she's always in my heart.

So when I see my mom again, I just want to hug her. That's it. One hug means a lot. What is your prayer in this Ramadan, Samantha?

Do you want to have a husband again?

Yes.

If you have a husband, should he be a believer or a non-believer?

I don't think about that. You mean a democrat? Yes, a democrat. A religious tolerance. But if he can be a Yes, I'm a tolerant person.

But if you can, you're a believer, right? Or not?

Yes, if I can, I'm a believer. But if I can't, it's not really my role. I have some criteria that I want from the characteristics or personality. So what's your prayer for Ramadan? Do you want to get married?

What do you want?

I want to get married, I want to take care of my child until he graduates from college.

You don't have any kids now, right?

I have one child.

So you do have kids now?

I have a teenage child.

How old is he?

He's about 14 years old.

Oh my God!

I thought you were a kid, How old are you? I'm 14 years old. Oh my God!

I thought you were younger than me. We have the same age. Oh my God! That can be one of your way. The love that you never get from your mom, you can give to...

What's your name?

Monica. To Monica. Right now. Monica, is she with you or your ex-husband? With me. Can you give to your daughter? What's your name? Monica To Monica now, right? Monica, is she with you or your ex-husband? With me

With you?

Her father is abroad

Oh, she's traveling abroad, she's also with Swiss

No, no, I mean she's working, she's an Indonesian She's working abroad And she's going to high school this year So, my hope is that she still wants to have a family, still wants to have children. Yes, God willing.

But we never know, so just enjoy it. Thank you, Sam. What a beautiful journey. We can sit together. I am a Protestant Christian. Samantha used to be a Catholic, Fatikan, no, no, and then convert or become a Muslim, and we can talk to each other, embrace each other's spiritual journey, because in the end we are looking for what is most fitting in our hearts,

what brings peace to our hearts. Yes, personal.

It's very personal, just between you and your creator. Thank you so much, thank you for sharing. Thank you guys for watching, hopefully there is a good value that you can get from the journey of a mu'alaf, a sister of Darius Sinateria. Samantha Sinateria too?

No, Samantha Elsenor.

Your name is so cool. Your name is so cool.

Bye guys, God bless you.