Sesko Strikes Again, Gyokeres Finds Form & Gary’s Annoying Arsenal Fans | Stick to Football EP 118

Right, let's go for it.

You ready Gary?

We're ready. We've both got... What have you got on?

I've got my Leipzig top on, which since was by the Bundesliga. Friday night's live on the overlap.

Well done. Good promotion, well done Kieran.

I'm doing my best Gary.

So I... I just had to...

I like the stone roses, I don't like United.

Well, one out of the two. Yeah, one out of the two. I like Salford though. Thank you. Didn't bring us any luck last night.

I don't know, they keep letting me in, you know. I think I've lost three-and-three, my last three.

Well, stay away then. Don't come back. Terrible, eh? It was a bad night, that. If the header goes in at 1-1, but he hits the bar, it might have been alright. The shot straight after that, the keeper's saved it, it's hit the lad on the line and come back to him.

Because you can't win.

Bizarre that. Ah well, we're on. Need to win at the weekend, Colchester. I was going to go to Colchester, but I'm not now because I'm doing Arsenal-Chelsea on Sunday so I was going to go down early on Saturday but I can't now. You go in the away ends when you go? Yeah, I go to away ends. I didn't do last week at Cheltenham because there was a few of us going, but Bromley,

just before Christmas, well a month or so before Christmas I went in the away end. Yeah, hud up. Lost a game. We lost as well too now. I went to Barn it away, Sophie. I like going to the Wend. It's good. Good atmosphere. Yeah, it's good. It's just nice to watch a game on a terrace and just watch it properly. That's what I like about League Two.

You can do that. I love League Two. I mean, it's a bit scruffy at times, but Arsenal-Chelsea this weekend, big game. I think Arsenal will do it now. We've got a bit of a hybrid episode today, haven't we? We have. We have.

Yo, Jim Ratcliffe here.

No, I'm not getting paid for that. No, no, I'm not getting paid for this. I'm not getting paid for this.

Why are you doing that?

Where's your sulfur orange one? Oh, I've worn sulfur orange on it, but just a few weeks ago when it was, it's for money, wasn't it? Before the city game.

Oh, that is cool.

How nice, eh? Yeah. Thought you one though. I can get you one. You look about 20 years old.

I like it.

It's for money. So that's nice, that corduroy jacket.

Of course it is, I'm wearing it.

What's that, Kieran?

Leipzig shirt, Scozy, because we've got...

Hey!

This is what you get live on the overlap.

How are you?

Good, good. Roberto! How are you, kid? I remember when you were interviewing me in the early years.

Yes, remember? And now look at me. Dropped off, didn't I?

Yeah.

Hey, how are you? You good? Yes. Roberto got a tracksuit on.

I'm going to be low-key with it.

I know.

I'm afraid you've embarrassed me here with what you're wearing.

Oh, no.

The smarts, yes.

Really smart. Looking good, my friend. International management, you look very fresh and relaxed.

It's true.

And you've got a good team.

Is that true, Roberto?

As much as it's fresh, you feel like you've got time in your head and stuff?

You know what? It's interesting because obviously I had seven years in the Premier League. And managing in the Premier League is almost you look forward all the time. It's the next game, next game. Even the press, at the end of the game, you're already thinking about the next game. If it's any players, anything. Family life, inexistent.

Inexistent.

I remember my first girl, Luella, first three years I was at Everton, never saw her. The first three years of her life. And then you go to international football and it's more intense when you got the games because it's the whole country and there is no margin of error.

In the league you can lose a game and then you get the three wins and you get back. International football, you lose it out. And the whole country is following. So the intensity is bigger. But then you got no games for a month.

And the way of managing is looking back, not looking forward to the next game, it's like looking back, what did we do well, what sessions were well accepted, what things, what partnerships. And you're learning to coach without the players, which has been a phenomenal experience. I think when you've been a coach, you can only see coaching with players. And I learned now after 10 seasons in international football that you can only see coaching with players. I learned now after 10 seasons in international football that you can actually coach without the players because you can see what they

do at the clubs, what are the patterns that are stronger for them, then you match it in

what you want to do. You don't need to go, you're not the top international lad you have, you still need to go and watch them, almost let them know that you're watching them even though they're brilliant players. I, just go away for a few days.

I'm sorry for a few days.

That's what I'm thinking, yeah.

I think there are three groups. We're working in three groups of players. So you've got a group of players that we assess them in a very quick way, when we are with them. And it's almost, OK, he was so important in the group, because you need to give a little bit of continuity over time. You can't just pick 23 players different in every call-up. You need to have a bit...

The opportunity to work on tactical aspects, and you do it with games, you don't do it with training. So then you've got players that, if they are fit, they're coming back because of what they did already. Then you've got another group, that is the players that have been in the national team, they need to be in a good moment of form to come in, because there are a lot of competition.

And then the third group is a group that, they've never been in the national team, but they got something that is different, and maybe something that we played against Germany and we didn't have that, and how can we find it, or if we wanted to play another shape.

So those three groups. The first group doesn't need much attention. You don't need to be following the captain of Manchester United because he's an important player. But that group in the middle needs a lot of attention. And the other group even more. Because you need to anticipate if they're going to be able to cope

with being an international player, if they could be themselves in that environment. And that's what I enjoy, because you need to follow them in the five top leagues. We've got players in Saudi Arabia. We've got... It's a global market really,

and it's fascinating what you learn when you see them.

Do you speak to the players a lot,

like in the week and stuff like that, or not really?

That's so funny, Jill, because when I was manager at Everton, it used to upset me a lot when the international manager would come in. He was like Father Christmas, you know. So he always had good news. And I'm thinking, well, he needs to be focused to do his job here.

Yeah, because just a reminder, when you were at Everton,

we were with Ireland, with Martin and...

Exactly.

And I always...

We always had a good relationship.

I always felt the Everton players were coming in on a wheelchair or crutches. I'd just be here. Every Everton player had an injury where they were like, oh, no, he's on the other side of the line.

I remember. I thought I might want to carry a grudge.

No, no, I know, I know.

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When Arsenal score, he's like, oh, good goal from Arsenal. And then someone else scores, he goes, oh, what a finish!

Do you know something? Gary, you've got a tough job here. Paranoia is incredible.

If you're the captain of Manchester United in a tough period, it's difficult to be available all the time and always be in there. And I think that's what Bruno has.

He never shies away.

Never, never.

You've got this mixture in the same player. If you want to mark the biggest guy in is going to appear is Bernardo Silva. The clue I'm going to give you is that he caused me a few problems at times.

Okay.

That doesn't matter.

A winger.

A wide forward.

It doesn't have to be a winger to cause him problems.

Probably a goalkeeper.

You see him always a wide player.

With Ronaldo, how are you going to win a game? He said, no, we're winning penalties. Ronaldo. They speak about the 1000 goals, he's not bothered about 1000 goals. And he feels, but what's the difference for me, scoring 1050 or 950, I'm the same player.

How come you're not talking about Man United and they're playing well?

Don't talk about Man United, bro. So last time we were on here, Righty, Sint-aztli had a little bit of a wobble at Wolves, but you mentioned last time you thought that Jokeres was a maybe. Was that the best we've seen of Jokeres at the weekend against Tottenham?

Yeah, I think so. I think that, I'd have to say Tottenham were pretty poor with what they'd done and how they tried to mark him and even the space. I thought Eze made a great run for him to get that first goal but I was always looking at when you look at Jokere's ister finishing and how quickly he can get it done and finish it. It's the same with the one what I had a guy set up for him, how he just moved the defender and finished it. I think that when he's got someone like Eze close, that close to, or something that close to him, and he can pick out one of the defenders, the weakest one, I thought Dragerson was the weakest one,

and we saw that, he can be very effective. Now I did say I think he can score between 10 and 12. If he carries on now, I believe that he could probably get more, and every single goal now, when you look at Arsenal, we're in everything, all the competitions, every single goal is so important for him now. If he could get on that kind of run now,

especially after them two goals he scored against Spurs, hopefully, you know, he can score those goals. Because people constantly talk about him as the guy, he scores against like the lower end teams, which he's done in Portugal, he's doing it here. But that's what Arsenal always needed.

We need that. We've scored goals against the top six. We've done that. We've shown we can do that. We need to break down that kind of defense and score goals against that kind of team.

And those finishes were like what they bought him for.

Really good.

You know what, it's like when I saw Cesco's last couple of finishes. There's something about it, Roy, which was really clean and like, boom, boom. And he looked like that happened to him. And so obviously Chelsea coming up, you're hoping that he will get the same kind of space because I think he struggles in that low block when it's all condensed.

He needs help.

Yeah, that's all it is. He needs someone closer to him. Now you're looking at, obviously, guy, if he's got 10 goals now 16 goals and everybody still kicks, then... You'd expect him to get that now, right? It would be a hit. When you look at our running... It's not a game to be aware of.

You could see that he could do it, but again, it's only Wolves the other day we saw how we went the other way and you're looking like, oh my gosh, the pressure's mounting and they're not dealing with it very well. Especially when that Declan Rice mistake, which was very, very much out of character. But then when that happened, Arsenal, for me, they still played well in the game,

and it was, can they get back on top and finish them off again? And they did.

Do you think they do it, Roberto? Arsenal? I mean, obviously you coached Lukaku. Yeah. And he was, I'm not saying misunderstood in terms of his style, but he's an imperfect striker.

Sometimes he can look a bit clumsy, sometimes he's not. How do you see Jokerez in terms of, sort of, as a player? And do you think Arsenal can get over the line? Do you think Arsenal will get over the line?

So for Jokerez, he's a player that I've seen a lot because he was at Sporting and he played for Sweden. Sweden, imagine the front four, it's Kulusevski, Jokreis, Izzac and Elanga. So it's as a national team. What Jokreis is, and I thought Arsenal hand-picked what he wanted, is a player that is always at the space at the back of the center half.

It's not about what he's going to do with his feet in front of him. It's just if he's got that space, and it's the best when he gets one-on-one situations, because he's got the power, uses his body, and he's a good finisher. I always felt that, and probably 20 years ago, when you were playing, you knew that the teams that were competing to win the league, the foreigners were coming to a second, like a bottom 10 team, and then after two years, they would come to Arsenal, to United.

Because you've got a period where you need to almost find the physicality, adjust to what the league is, and I find Seshko, Jokre, they are in that period. Jokre, on top of it, is an incredible psychological task. When he's been already in this country at Reading, I never got the opportunity to get into a Premier League club.

He had to go to Coventry. So as a human being now he's gone to Portugal, comes back. This is a moment that he needs to... I think he needs a transitional period. He's not a player that is going to come in and it doesn't matter how much you paid,

he's going to give you... But he's got the potential to be the leading goal scorer for Arsenal for the next four or five years, once he's ready. And I think the game against Spurs show you what he can do when the space is there and when the style suits him. But I think what Mkhitaryan has done is, he brought a player that he didn't have

for those sort of games, whatever it is, the one that you need to use the contact in the box to score goals, the one that you need to explore the space. But the will, I think he's got everything to be able to cope with that.

You know what I liked as well, what you've done as well, Roy, he kept him on. You know, he kept, yeah, he kept him on. And that, for me, as a striker, you don't want to be taken off.

Even though he scored that last one right at the end. I can finish the game off as well. You take him off... He looked quicker, didn't he? You know what? You can feel, you can just see something. Like I say, I'm not going to act like Spurs or one of the top-end teams where they played.

And like I said, I thought Eze made a great run to make that space because that ball came from a long way to come into his feet, So I was thinking, can he control this and finish it quick? Bam, done it. And you think to yourself, right, OK, let's go.

I've not really seen that in him before,

that cleanness of strike.

Yeah, and the thing is, you know what else as well? He looks like that. He looks like that now. You can see him. He felt like that. His chest came up.

And I'm thinking, yeah, crack been, this is a very tough, he's a great example for any young player that he gets a rejection somewhere and he keeps going and the resilience. But his journey has been from not being accepted in the Premier League, having to go abroad to come back. I always come back with a top, top, top role that he is not ready yet.

He needs to go through those phases. And I think that goal will mean a lot more than just the goal itself.

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It was such a big game for Arsenal though, wasn't it? Like, obviously afterwards and then City getting the win and then to reduce it to two points, I was like, it was such a big win.

You know what I think is, is that all the narrative around Arsenal, about like the physicality, the emotional, Declan Wright, all that stuff is part of what's got to happen with Arsenal in this time.

Did you say something?

No, I didn't say something. In this time, simply because, you know, and you guys know, It's not about like, oh, we're not aggressive enough, oh, we're celebrating too much, oh, we're just, it doesn't matter now. I think the guys have got to understand now

that this is about trying to finish this off because that's been the problem in the last three years.

It's about timing sometimes as well,

and getting teams at the right time. And things, the anxiousness of everything as well, Scozy, is because they are so desperate to do it, the fan, you can feel it. So they're just trying to get it done. And I think that's where they need to put their focus.

Do you think they do... I mean, obviously, you're not into predictions, Roberto, but you see City, you see Arsenal, who do you think gets over the line?

You're not into predictions?

You're not going to get a prediction? It's interesting because if you ask any other Champions League team outside the UK, everybody will tell you Arsenal look stronger than Man City. But when you understand the Premier League and you know the way Pep Guardiola works, Man City should be the favourite to finish the season the strongest. Just because of the change in terms of players in the dressing room, it's almost like everything is coming into place and it's got this incredible capacity of

finding tactical solutions and preparing each game. When you look at it from outside, everybody in the Champions League, all the top clubs in the Champions League, they're highlighting Arsenal.

So in Europe now, Arsenal are seen as the team that are the most dominant.

Yes, because they beat Real Madrid the way they did, because they're a team that can defend very well without the ball, that they can play with the ball. It's a very complete team. Set plays, I know that in the UK is different, in the Premier League everybody works the set plays well,

but in Europe, nobody can defend a corner from Arsenal. That's a reality. And when you look at the Premier League teams against European opposition, the goals that they score from that ball situation is incredible. It's a trend that hasn't developed in Europe yet. And that side of it can be a big strength in Europe. But in the Premier League, I don't think you can call it.

I think even that game, Man City-Arsenal, is going to have a big influence that we think. And what is it? 90 minutes? 90 minutes could be anything. Could it be about this season, could be a bit of luck, a bit of magic. So I think the league is going to be decided in the first round.

And they had a Co-Final as well, didn't they? That can just derail one of them.

That's it. And what happens in the Champions League?

Champions League could be that City plays Real Madrid and they're out, than Arsenal did back then. The thing is that when you listen to Arsenal fans and listen to what they say about Gary, Gary's desperate for, he wants a title chase, oh I want a title challenge. And I keep going on about Arsenal all the time.

Who is, Nev?

Nev, yeah.

Yeah, but he's rocked on the team.

He's got a rock body. But I had to protect Nev. No, I had to protect him What people were saying was, yeah, but if City are doing really well, Neve still wants a title challenge. Don't dig out my mate, you know what I mean? Just because he's saying, oh, he wants, when Arsenal score,

he's like, oh, good goal from Arsenal. And then someone else scores, he goes, oh, what a finish!

You know what I mean?

Do you know something?

Gary, you've got a tough job here. That's incredible. You said cool, innit? I think Arsenal win it. I think they will win it. Arsenal fans are pissed off with me because a couple of weeks ago when City scored two in the last ten minutes at Anfield, they thought that I was like sort of over-celebrating. The fact of the matter is that was big.

And by the way, Arsenal wobbled like Maddicott for a week after, it was big. Do you think Arsenal win the league again? Yes, I do. I do. You know, we're... You've got to remember, we're joint top scorers. We conceded the least goals. That's facts, bro. I'm not going on pure faith. I'm not going on pure faith.

You're broing me up.

No. Broing me up.

I'm not brown, you're... Gary, I have to believe it.

I have to believe it, you know, with what they're trying to do and what they're trying to finish. I have to believe. I've had the faith from the start. I know people say faith is believing in something that, you don't have to explain yourself. You said you're going to win the league. I'll say one thing logically. Nervous himself.

I'm not nervous.

I'm just anxious.

You're anxious.

Tell me something.

Why would I not want Arsenal to win the league?

Oh, no. Ask the people with your commentary.

You would rather Arsenal win the league than City, wouldn't you?

100%. I said to them, Garry, we just want to see a title race. Yeah, we all want to see a title race. Yeah, but when you're the team that's up there, and we have wobbled, you know, after the Tottenham game, up to the Tottenham game, it started with the United game for me, where it just like, oh, what's happening?

We have wobbled, but at the same time, that's what's of the journey. I'm relaxed with it. I'm relaxed with it. It is exciting. You can tell by the... by the optimism in my voice.

Yeah.

It is.

Man United could still win it.

Look at Man United. How come you're not talking about Man United in a playing world?

Don't talk about Man United, bro.

LAUGHTER

Man United are fine.

SESCO. He's like a fine man. Sesco, let's just quickly go to Sesco because I want to ask Roberto about Igor Tudor and Tottenham and talk about Tottenham a little bit. But just in terms of Sesco, he's got to play him at the weekend, hasn't he? You would think now. I mean, he's definitely grown a little bit

like Jokre in his last few years.

Yeah, of course, yeah.

Brilliant. I think we mentioned where he was missing one or two chances, but he was getting into the good positions. You're thinking, he's doing a lot of the right stuff.

And he got a lot of confidence and belief.

Does he look quicker and more powerful?

Did you see when he set off?

Is that always the case when someone's scoring goals?

They just look a bit...

You just mentioned there, attacking players do look a bit... Their weight's been lifted about that United. Exactly, I just wanted to say that, Scorzi. The test will be when you go, no, you're going to be the main man now, can you take that? He's coming off the bench and getting up to speed with the game.

If he's working as a finisher though, why not keep him as a finisher?

I tell you, that goal with Kunja's work in the end of the pass. You know what's good about it is that people will underestimate, underestimate is the balls coming across to Sesco, coming off the… His concentration and finish was so… Brilliant, man.

Honestly, and again…

He had a long time to look at it.

He had a long time to look at it, and this is what I'm saying, people underestimate, right? People underestimate. They think that's easy because it's just him and a goalie, but that finish and the attacking players there, it's not all on Bruno now.

There's a bit more support for Bruno, it's not always on Bruno to find that killer pass. Them lads do look for a striker.

Bruno had one of his most difficult games, I felt, on Monday in some ways. But you're right on Sesco because everybody in the stadium, What he had to do, yeah. But he still had a long time to look at it, but he just did it. Executed it, brilliant. Because he didn't even look at the goal, he didn't look at anything, You're going right back in the goals. Don't move do they absolutely BAM in there and I'm looking forward to seeing them to next season top them I'll come to Roy into Roberto but they're in trouble art. I mean rather they'll go to use first good. I always get the bad stuff. Are you a spec-man, Roy?

I like what I'm doing.

I've seen what you've done.

I mean, I know what you make, Roy. It's been a big couple of ego tutor goes in. It was a tough first half for them, this in Arsenal. New managers in the door. I still think they'll find a bit more than Forrest and West Ham. It's as simple as that.

West Ham's found a little form and they look like it.

West Ham have got a little bit of momentum going and big games again coming up this weekend. Forrest was killer blow, last minute to Liverpool. These are all momentum turners, they can change week to week.

But I'm sitting there, I still think Tottenham will have enough to stay. Which one do we think will go? Can I say something? I saw, remember the goal… They've been for Palace this weekend, haven't they? Against Arsenal, I saw Igor Trudeau trying to speak to… Yeah, yeah, yeah. He blanked him. Totally blanked him. That says to me that they've checked out already. You think so?

Right. He's blanked him. They've done that with Thomas Frank when he was trying to walk around the... Yeah, but this guy's new. This guy's new. He's saying he wants him to come up and look at... And he just stayed there. He thinks to himself, that don't look good.

That don't look good. Roberto, what does a manager go into? He's actually, to be fair, done this so many times now he's got a tutor. He's gone into clubs and had literally 10, 11 games to go? Is it tactical, is it psychological? What is he doing now, Igor Chudor, to try and get those players on board?

I think it's accepting where they are. You're going to the last third of the season. I remember when I was at Wigan, you're almost prepared for that last third of the season because that's your opportunity. It's the last third.

For us, it was, we're going to get out of trouble. The problem is going to the last third, hoping that you're not going to get dragged down into a relegation battle because your club wasn't ready for that. This is where it becomes very, very dangerous. What happens now is that you should forget about these general terms. Oh, we shouldn't get dragged down. What that means for a player.

When you say to a player, don't get dragged down to a relegation, what is this? Do I need to run more, less?

What language do you use to a player that's in trouble of relegation?

It's basic. It's like everything that you can control. You have to do 12 kilometres. You have to do six sprints into the box. You have to run into an air post. Everything needs to be so measurable. I do think Spurs, they'll get one or two players back from injury, you win a game and they got too much.

The problem is that the players, when you get the feeling that these general terms, I don't want to be… there are no easy games in the Premier League. I was at the game on Monday, Everton-Man Utd, the last 20 minutes they had 10 corners that Man Utd had to defend. It's like every win you have to suffer. So as a player, if Spurs you think,

no, we're going to have easy games to win. No, there are no easy games. And it's just reducing that to, look, it's the next game. And you got an opportunity to get points rather than if you don't win, you're out. It's changing the mindset. every game now, in the last third, is an opportunity to win points. The moment that the club sees it as, wow, if we don't win, it's like the mindset is so negative

and it drags you down. We've all seen it, there are teams that are too good to go down. They go down because they're not prepared for that final third of the season.

Oh, gosh.

I just think there's worse teams than Spurs.

They're as bad? In those terms. I think West Ham...

I think West Ham are OK.

The three teams that came from the Championship, it was a big debate. I thought from the outside, I was looking and said, it's true, I think the Premier League and the Championship they're dragging away from each other. The three teams that they go up, it seems that it's smaller. So all of a sudden there will be,

obviously it seems that Wolves, they're a team that now, they could get points to Arsenal, they could compete against anybody, but obviously maybe the points tally will be enough. There are another two places that...

But even for, the worst thing for Forrest is they have a bit of a distraction with Europe. Yes. You know, they play the Liverpool game, they're on the back and going to Fenerbahce. All these challenges. They ran out of steam the last half an hour against Liverpool.

West Ham are gaining momentum when Tottenham are losing momentum. The team that looks a bit doomed at the moment, you'd probably say nearly, Forrest.

I know they have a new coach going in and you think he needs a good start. Fort Manager, different ideas coming their way. Again, huge weekend coming up.

On what you just said about Leeds and Sunderland there, what's happened and it seems happened in the last two or three years is I think teams have come up over the last few years and tried to play football. No doubt Leeds and Sunderland have gone back to basics. They've gone physical, they've gone aggressive.

You were one of the first exponents that I can remember of playing football in the Premier League, your belief in how to play is obviously strong. Are you changing slightly? Would you change slightly now if you were in the Premier League and play more physically if you were coaching now in the league?

No, at all. I think the danger that we have is like, this team plays football. Well, that doesn't give you anything. Is he exceptional at playing football or not? Because being average at something is not doesn't give you anything. Is he exceptional at playing football or not?

Because being average at something is not going to give you points. Even if you are physical or you're going to be percentage football, you need to be exceptional at something. I believe in being exceptional at playing football. Why? Because that's what the player loves. We all play football because of what you can do on the ball and there are many things that is about discipline and working hard and there are many things that is about discipline and working hard, and there are many aspects that you have to, there is no compromise.

But I believe that you can be, if you become exceptional at what you do, you'll win games. It's not gonna happen overnight. And that's a little bit something that, when I became a manager, someone said,

remember, you become a manager twice. I said, okay. He said, the first time they give you a job, and the first time you lose four games in a trot. And it's so true, because the moment that you doubt, and you start saying, oh, we played football now, we lost four, maybe we should go a bit more direct, then you're done, you're finished.

Because the message in the players doesn't get the people you don't trust. Ruben Amorim was right to stick with what he was going to do. No, no, I think that's different. I think, obviously, Ruben Amorim was very successful at sporting and probably came to United and he didn't know the league. And probably that transitional period that we talk about as a manager happens. Until you have 100 games at any league, you're not an experienced manager. I think probably Ruben got caught in between getting the best of the players and playing his way.

And this is something that comes with experience. I was the same when I arrived at Swansea. No, no, we're playing like that. And I've got the same beliefs that 20 years ago that I started, but now I'm a bit more,

what can I do for the player to be at his best? But was Swansea and Wigan going to give you that time to lose four on the road? Totally. You had a bit of kudos from a player... Totally.

...that was smart, where you're picking, going, this is the right club for me.

Roy, I don't believe about going to a club or to a league.

I believe in going to a person that believes in your job because then he's going to give you… But you must have felt when you went into Swansea, as long as you wanted it, you would get them 70, 80, 90, 100 games to get a foothold in your own career and to get your message

across to players. I don't know at Swansea because that was a big risk from the chairman, Hugh Jenkins. He saw me as a captain there and he knew about my ideas and the way I wanted to play. And I believe that as a manager, you could be a footballing team in the lower leagues. It was this stigma that,

no, you cannot play good football in the lower leagues to get promoted. And I thought, no, no, you can. You can, but you need to be very clear how you're gonna do it. At Swansea, I think if I would have lost four games in a row, I would have got the sack. At Wigan, and this is a story I never shared with anybody,

when I arrived the first day, and Mr. Whelan, which is an incredible custodian of a football club and a great example, something that we're losing in our game, he said to me, look, I believe in you, I believe in what you can do.

If you get relegated this season, you're gonna be my manager in the championship. If you get relegated the second season, you're gonna be my manager in the league one because it's my mistake of giving you the job, but you're gonna be here for four years. It's such an empowerment

that it doesn't happen in modern football, that it gives you such a strength that it takes away the excuse to the player. After not four defeats, we had a period of 11 games without a win in the Premier League. And the trust was exactly the same. And I think that's what we don't get in football anymore. Now it's like, it's quick, it's like…

It's almost week to week now for Man Utd, isn't it? Survival.

Survival and defeat. Survival and defeat. And I do feel that there is something about clubs that they are structured to survive defeat. I think what Arsenal, what Michael Artet has been through, is a great example. Great example.

Do you want to get back into club management at some point?

I don't know. I don't know. That's the truth. I never... I'm a bit... I'm very... I can never plan my career. I loved that international football stuff. I don't watch it man. It's so, it's so, like, you need to prioritise. You cannot work on everything. You've got three days to prepare a game. So everything becomes very specific

on what can you help the player to perform. And you need to be very, it's clarity. International football is about clarity.

Was your most difficult job Roberto, at Everton, trying to change a club that historically plays, always want a bit more of a direct, physical style of play into a football style of play. Because it's hard there, isn't it, to try and do that?

Yeah, but you know, Gary, I love that challenge. And the first season, we got the biggest amount of points in the history of the Premier League of Everton, 72 points that any other season would give us Champions League football. I loved the challenge, and I think the players loved the challenge. It becomes a real test of character, Champions League football. I loved the challenge and I think the players loved the challenge.

It becomes a real test of character because you're talking about centre-halves going from 50 passes a game to 110 passes a game. You're talking about the goalkeeper to help allowing the pressure of the opposition and playing through it. We became really, really strong. What I regret when I look back is I didn't manage the expectations. So from the first season going to 72 points, the next season in Europe,

we were the, at that time, not many people remember, but in 2015, the British clubs, the Premier League clubs, were finding it very difficult to play in Europe because the physicality of the Premier League was taken a lot about, and Everton was the latest team in the European competition. And then it became the opposite,

then all adjusted and then they became power in Europe. You saw Chelsea against Arsenal in the Europa League final, Liverpool against Spurs in the Champions League final. But then the season after we made two semi-finals Everton, in the domestic League Cup and in the FA Cup, and it was those margins. We conceded in the 91st minute, you remember, against Man United. We missed the penalty in the second half,

and the final was against Crystal Palace. And I always felt if we would have won that, I was in a process where we needed silverware to make the next step. But as well, I think we were talking about good owners, Bill Kenwright, that he was an incredible support,

he got a bit ill at the end, and I think we lost a little bit that capacity of surviving defeat or being able to... But no, the answer is I love the reaction of the fans, because, you know, the fans want the team to win. And Everton, believe it or not, has got nine league titles.

There is a feeling there in the fans that the olden days, they were the best team in Europe. And when we were winning and playing well, it's much better than winning when you don't play well. And it was a feeling that, okay, the old times, Howard Kendall,

it was the that, okay, the old times, Howard Kendall, it was the school of science, it was a feeling of, you could feel the positivity. The problem is that when you lose, the reason whether you lose is because you play, you're trying to pass the ball. It's not like that, it's because when you pass the ball,

you don't do it well enough, and you need to improve it. But I love, it's like a little bit of an unfinished business because we were so close, but I enjoyed the fact that the whole football club embraced when the team was winning, obviously the style that we had.

Stick to Football is brought to you by Arm Clothing. This segment is brought to you by Microsoft Co-Pilot as part of their partnership with the Premier League. Right, we're using the Premier League Companion powered by Microsoft Co-Pilot as part of their partnership with the Premier League. Right, we're using the Premier League Companion, powered by Microsoft Co-Pilot, to help me here. Let's go for it. We've got the top five Spanish…

Scoles, you're such a cheat.

I can see Scoles looking.

Is it Co-Pilot?

He's one step ahead, isn't he?

We've got the top five Spanish goal scorers in Premier League history to start with. Who are they? Top five Spanish... Raúl Torres?

Premier League history.

Premier League.

Premier League.

Fernando Torres is number one. 85 goals.

Morata?

How many? 81?

No. 85. Oh, 85, sorry.

Spanish?

Spanish players.

Jordi Gómez?

No.

That's my guy from Swansea.

He's a fellow from Swansea. He's a Tottenham player.

He's a fellow from Swansea.

Jordi Gomez.

No!

No, Michu. Michu, Michu, Michu, right.

All four of these, by the way, are like legendary type players. David Silva?

No.

David Silva. Luis Garcia?

No.

No.

Which Tottenham player? You're doing very well, eh? I got Torres, I got De Gea. I said Torres.

I'm relaxed, you know.

I've got my gauntlet.

Torres is number one, David Silva's number two.

Diego Costa, Spanish?

Yeah, Diego Costa, number three.

Okay.

And the last two...

He was, yeah, Brazil.

The last two are big players.

Xabi Alonso?

No. Don't give us the clues. They're big players. Just wait. You'll kick yourselves by the way.

Santi Cazorla? No, Santi Cazorla.

Oh, Santi Cazorla.

No, but someone else that's played for your team.

Riyaz, the winger.

No, Fabregas.

Fabregas?

Fabregas.

How do you know it's Fabregas?

He's the fourth, Fabregas was fifth.

Oh wow, so he scored more goals than Fabregas?

More goals than Fabregas, less than Diego Costa. He's going to give Fadi the Premier League for a long time, at two big clubs.

Mata.

Is it Mata? Juan Mata?

Juan Mata.

Nice one.

Juan Mata. Nice one. One answer. Roberto. Here we go, we've got more. I would have got that. I don't know if you like these. The top five...

You got the best one.

Two more days.

Top five Portuguese goal scorers in Premier League history.

Cristiano Ronaldo.

Cristiano.

Bruno.

Bernardo Silva. Bruno. Bernardo Silva.

Why are you telling them us?

Did I?

He just did! Did I just name them? Nani? Who? Nani, no. Nani, no.

Nani didn't make it.

No, Nani, no.

No.

No, Nani, no.

Nani, Nani, no.

You've got Cristiano was number one, Bruno Fernandes number two, Bernardo Silva number four. So you've got number three and number five.

Jota?

Yeah, Jota. Diego Jota. Yeah, Giotta. Diogo Giotta. Number three. Number three, yeah. 63 goals. So, Cristiano was 103 goals in 236 games, Bruno 68 in 219, Diogo Giotta 63 in 190. And Bernardo, 44 in 293.

I'm not sure you'll get this one.

Nevers.

No, but he's an excellent Premier League player. The clue I'm going to give you is that he caused me a few problems at times.

Okay.

That doesn't matter.

There's a winger.

There's a winger.

A wide forward played...

It doesn't have to be a winger to cause him problems.

You'd see him more as a wide player.

I think for a period he sort of played also up top. He played for two or three Premier League clubs. He played for your club, I think. I think he did, didn't he? At one point, he did.

Which club? He played for... Palace?

No, I feel like...

I'll give you the club, Fulham.

Oh, Paul Mortar.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was Paul Mortar.

Does he even look like me!

I wouldn't have got that.

30 seasons of data all at your fingertips. For every moment that makes you a fan, from club history to your favourite players, go to the Premier League Companion, powered by Copilot in the Premier League app. Stick to Football is brought to you by Armed Clothing. Every week, Roberto, we do a game of predictions. Right.

And you're going to stay with us. You can join whichever side you like. That's the losing side. You can join the losers.

It might be after this.

Then on you come. It's the final golden game round of Super 6 this weekend. If Liverpool beat West Ham, the jackpot will double from £250,000 to £500,000. It's completely free to play, just predict six scores this weekend and the money could be yours. Don't forget to enter the Stick to Football Mini League using the code S6-STF. 18 plus TNCs apply.

♪♪♪♪

Welcome to Super 6. Right, last game, last round. Gary and Jamie, 11 points. 11 points. You guys. They only got 11, we would've got 10.

97. We would've got 10 on the top. You guys, Jill, Roy and Ian got 13 points.

Wow. Nice. 97 you guys still right Ian got 13 points Wow

That was a bit down to me top 20%

Did you give us the fall for the villa that was a double one are you sure

Checking the scores properly I am honestly that we're in the top 24 scary you're at top 20% you beat

600,000 players. That's a lot of people to beat. That's a lot, isn't it? Gary didn't win though. That's fantastic.

We beat a lot of people.

It's not Wobble.

It feels like a Wobble.

Did you give us the four points for Nivella and Newcastle?

Yeah, we would have done.

Are you sure?

We would have done.

We would have done.

We would have done. If you play Liverpool vs West Ham, it's this week's golden game. If Liverpool win, the jackpot doubles to £500,000. Wow.

Roberto, Liverpool vs West Ham, what are we going for? Scores in? Roberto's the man. 2-1, I think. Roberto, what would you say?

He asks us what we think and then he decides.

No, no, I get it 2-1. Roberto, what would you say? He asks us what we think and then he decides.

No, no, I'm OK. What I think is the manager West Ham knows how to win at Anfield.

Yes.

I'm not that in there.

And they struggled when Liverpool had teams that they were very defensive.

So what do you think then?

I fancy West Ham.

3-0 Liverpool.

To win?

West Ham. Three-nil Liverpool. To win? Who do you fancy? West Ham to win?

2-1?

One-nil, I don't think they'll score many goals. One-nil for West Ham.

One-nil for West Ham, wow.

I thought we were going to go for Liverpool.

Liverpool have to score at home.

I can buy into that all day long. No, no, but you got the final say, yeah? Liverpool have the score at home. Yeah, no, you're right. Is Virt... How long is he on for? Virt was a big loss, still,

when Liverpool were dreadful against Forest.

Dreadful.

Is Virt back? Is he back?

I don't know.

I think so.

But you'll have to... We can't...

Yeah, yeah, he's back.

You'll have to fancy Liverpool. Everything manager on here, you know what David Moyes has done on here. Yes. Don't overthink it. Don't overthink it.

Liverpool are home to West Ham.

I just think that West Ham have got momentum at the moment.

Momentum?

The fact that Roberto Mourinho's got...

West Ham have got great momentum. They're fucking four bottom. What momentum have they got?

They're falling quick.

I know, that's great momentum. I'd go 2-1 West Ham. Who did they draw with at home, do you have a name? Who did they draw with?

Bournemouth.

No, United.

West Ham.

Bournemouth, wasn't it?

West Ham.

They drew with...

United is where Sheshkars go.

Liverpool?

No, no, West Ham drew...

What are we doing here?

Bournemouth. Bournemouth, yeah. Right, well we're going to have to go different to them because we'll probably miss them. Could he get a draw? Could he get a draw? 2-1.

When's the Champions League? Is that next week?

It's pretty helpful today.

We're playing the next week.

2-1 Liverpool.

Is it?

United or Newcastle? 2-0.

11th.

Do you give us 10 more points?

No.

Oh, f**k. Bourne will score, Bourne will get it. No lateral thought, Roberto. No, they go very straight. They're first.

Newcastle. Oh, good.

They don't say anything now, Roberto, for a bit.

Newcastle win.

Let them drown in their own urine.

Look how we're going like...

I thought you were nice.

Don't worry.

Newcastle win.

2-1 Newcastle?

Yeah.

You always go 2-1, it's always like 1-0.

2-1 Newcastle.

Newcastle, 2-1.

Yeah, listen. What we're thinking here.

See? Yeah, don't ask me Gary.

Can't work out Newcastle.

That's a hard, hard...

Some of the rules are hell.

Three-one Newcastle. You know Dave Amoy's got a great record up there, you know that. You've obviously done your homework.

Leeds Man City.

This is a big game.

This is big.

Is it 5.30? Is it 5.30 Saturday?

I've been let down by the cars, I've no idea.

I think Leeds. I've got to go with Leeds. I think Leeds are beat. I think Leeds are beat. You know something, I think he might be City.

Don't go hard on him.

I don't know what but...

What are we going with then? 2-0 or 2-1? 3-1? 2-0.

Or the Portuguese lads?

Carver Loon.

2-0 Man City.

I think it's one of those games that if Leeds scores it becomes... Leeds Man City. I think it's one of those games that if Leeds scores, it becomes...

Leeds Man City.

The thing is, if they're going to win, it's because they're going to...

Do you? Just from their madness.

I just feel like they can. I don't see City winning all their games now.

I hope so.

What was the season, 2018, when City just won 14 on the bouncer?

On the bouncer. On the bouncer. Liverpool are the title. This is our time to be anxious.

You think so?

You think so?

They capable.

Let's give Leeds one anyway.

So what's the score going to be?

Just put Leeds first.

Can you put Leeds one please?

That's what we want.

Just leave it at that.

One nil.

Just put a line.

What are you thinking? Do you think Rhylham? I think City are going to beat them. I think City are probably going to beat them too. O'Reilly, look at that new great goal scorer in O'Reilly.

We haven't even mentioned O'Reilly.

So good. He's definitely going to win.

His first game was against us last year.

Left back, he's in midfield.

Now he's like... Manchester United vs Crystal Palace Oh Palace always do well

Are you okay with comments?

At your club, you know your club

No, no, you two, you two

No, no, no

Can Barry tell you when they're here?

This is Sunday, 2 o'clock I think I'm doing the Arsenal Chelsea game 4.30 2 o'clock Sunday Arsenal 12.20 Yeah, I think it's 2.30pm, 2 o'clock on Sunday. Arsenal, Chelsea, Gate.

Yeah, I think this game might be a bridge to a cup. United home, I'm going to say, we give them 2-0 or 2-1?

No, I think I'd give them more. I think Sesco's going to nick a couple in this. I'm going to go with Sesco. 2-0. I've not done one yet. If Sesco scores two, can we get extra points?

Yeah.

Thank you, but if you score three, you're 2-0.

You deserve more than that.

I'm going to text the record to five.

I said we were going to score four. I think Palace are going to do it. I think Palace are going to do it.

Get your phone out, James.

What are you doing?

Not very Super 6, is it? I think Palace are logging us.

We're going to go for 3-1 to United.

3-1.

Right, love that. Fulham Tottenham.

Oh, that's a dog.

That's not a good game for Tottenham.

Dog of a game. When's this one?

Fulham are going well, aren't they? Full of my good man, especially at home. You're on about the new sports manager. He took him off for a meal last week in London, did you see that?

He took him off for a meal.

Did he?

He was fucking four, like.

Oh, Jesus.

On one hand, you have a meal. Try getting it on the training pitch. We all tried out. Go for a meal, a bit of go-karting, four-one. I'm going to do some possession. Canter like Gorka.

He played that mean, Louis, he was the honest boy. He said before Solvan, fuck training off.

Did he get the training pitch?

Yeah, Sparta.

They were up flying along.

I think he just says everything, so then whatever's right, we can clip it.

Right, what are we doing? Fulham, Tottenham, Roberto, help us.

For me, that one, I think winning means more to Spurs than Fulham at the moment. Because Fulham are having a great season, they're playing at home, I think they could be caught a little bit.

Do you think Tottenham win?

I think so, back five, I think they could.

2-1? Or 1-0? I love that 2-1, full back. There's not going to be a lot of goals, no? No way. 2-1, maybe? Fancy a full one, man.

Your goal, but it's one goal difference.

Fulham type pitch.

No, Rebecca.

Two on to Spurs.

Two on to Spurs?

Cappuccinos, the King's Road, you know, I'm chilled out. 4-4. Arsenal Chelsea. Put all your money, all your pensions, put it on that. Do you know what? Chelsea could do something silly and get a man sent off again. Chelsea will do something daft. Do you watch?

I fancy Chelsea.

I know.

You fancy him all day? Righty, do you know when I commentate at Arsenal, I'm going to give her a special mention. There's a woman who comes and sees me every single time called Suzie, she brings me some blueberries. It's amazing. She's lovely.

If she does that to us when we're there as well, you're not that special.

She gives us her food, I know, she's lovely. I have a great relation to Arsenal fans in the stadium behind me. She goes to Gary, then she goes home. She serves Gary and goes home.

They don't realise.

No, I don't mean in your Arsenal, Chelsea, Ian, come on.

Does she bro you off?

Bro me off, come on.

Bro me off.

He's eating his berries.

What are you doing?

Berries are popping in.

3-1.

No, this is on you now.

This is on Reidy.

Yeah, I'll take it. This is on you, nobody else.

Have your phone on. I'll take it. This is your new one, nobody else. Yeah, we're gonna murder him. I'll be your fore-nun. All right, I'll over it. Roberto, just talk to us.

I want him to win for the heck of it, mate.

Just quick question to Roberto on Pedro Neto.

Yeah?

Because you look at him, he's a massive talent.

Yeah.

And you think of him as like Hazard-like in his style. No. Nothing like it. He's playing in wide areas, he's got the ball. No, no. No, no.

Just because he's a same height.

Yes.

It turns up the training.

Eden Hazard was somebody that he would stop the game and find his 1v1. He's got that pause. Neto plays the opposite. He accelerates the game. So he's…

Apart from that, you're right.

No, no they are different players. Pedro Neto can play on the right and the left. He can play on the outside. When he plays on the right, he can come inside for the left foot, but it's not going to be a slow action.

What's holding him back from being able to go there?

Nothing really. I think he's been a little bit adapting to the number of games of Chelsea because he's a type of player that probably a game every three days. Tough. Yeah, he's still young. He had a big injury when he was young and I think he's still adapting. But the moment that he'll be able to play three games in a week, he'll have that influence in every game.

He is a vertical player. He's somebody that is going to make it, he's going to open the game up, however you want to do it. I thought the game, if you remember the game against Paris Saint-Germain in the World Cup final, he was the main player to open the space to Palma. He's that type of player. The intensity is incredible.

What do you think?

Do you think he'll open Arsenal?

I've gone three-one.

What's the score going to be?

I think it's a draw or wins it.

Wow.

I think it's a draw or wins it. Wow. I think so. Yeah, yeah. He said draw.

No, no.

No, he said, oh, Chelsea win.

A draw or Chelsea win?

Yeah, I'm with him.

That's big.

I'm with him.

Yeah, but it's...

Look at the mood.

Look at the mood.

Look how serious.

Look at me now.

Your sweat's coming through. And Roberto, go with it. No, no, it's your call, Bart. Liverpool losing, Arsenal losing. What would you say then? 2-1 to Chelsea, 1-0 to Chelsea?

I think it's a draw.

1-1?

You remember the second half in the cup?

Yeah, yeah.

Arsenal only won that because they were trying to get a goal like that.

Did they win it though?

1-1? Did they win it though? Yeah, but did they win it though? Thank you so much. Did they win it though? Thank you.

I'm in a meanie pants.

We've gone controversial, really. That's a good shout. That's a good shout. That's a good shout.

Reidy's gone all emotional.

It's emotional, yeah.

Definitely emotional.

I'm not knocking you for that. Roberto, have you got the best midfield in the world? Bruno Fernandes, Vitina and Bernardo Silva.

And João Neves.

João Neves, who plays right back. You played him right back in your last game.

No, I think tactically you need to find solutions. I think obviously when you've got so many midfielders, what we did with João Neves, and we did it with Paris Saint-Germain, is off the ball would be a right back. From the ball, he would be inside and then he plays in his role.

I needed you as a coach, Roberto. That would have been...

Sure, sure.

England manager.

But I mean, have you got the best... Do you feel like you've got the best midfield in the world? Talk us through each of them individually. so much, his numbers are off the scale. I think he's very unfairly assessed, I would say. At United?

Yes, because I think if we are very objective, to be the captain of Manchester United in the last three, four years, I bet it's been incredibly tough at every level. And what I appreciate from him is he never hides. Never hides. And I'm not going to value if he makes the right pass,

the right execution, but whatever happens, in any action, he's back. He's back. He's back. And he's the one that is a leader. He's a leader. And the way he's very emotional, but in a very respected way by his teammates.

When the teammates see Bruno upset, they react. They know that that's something. It's not like an emotional player that just has emotion for emotion.

He's always available. He always plays.

He always takes them all.

He's always available. I give him credit for that.

He plays…

Could you make it one second? On that emotional point there, because in this country, if you're emotional, you're a whinger, aren't you? It's the British culture, isn't it? If you're doing this on the pitch, you're whinging. You see it as leadership, obviously.

No, no. Any emotion... This emotion is for a reason. I think that's the difference with other emotions. There are players that are emotional because of the way they cope with it. That's completely different. I think that can affect other players. When Bruno reacts emotionally, it's because something is not right.

It's almost a message to somebody. He looks after every player. He would never, ever let anyone down. But what I appreciate is that, is the consistency. Last season was the player with the biggest amount of minutes in Europe. If you're the captain of Manchester United in a two-period,

it's difficult to be available all the time and always being there. And I think that's what Bruno has.

He never shies away.

Never, never.

Even when the game's not going great for him, he's always giving the ball, I'll try and make something happen.

Always. And he'll do the difficult job. So he will be the player that is almost going to be executing the difficult pass, the final pass. He's going to get in the final third. Tactically, very intelligent. We've got players that are going to be managers. Bruno Fernandes is one. Bernardo Silva is another one.

This intelligence, football intelligence...

Hang on there. On the tactical intelligence, that's something he wouldn't get appreciated for at United. The thought is at Old Trafford that he runs everywhere. But you're saying about tactical intelligence, does he play more discipline for Portugal than you see him at United maybe?

I do, I do. Just because it becomes a little bit easier with Portugal because you've got captains everywhere and you've got players that are top players in their clubs. But he's a player that is constantly making decisions. He assesses where the opposition is, where the space is,

how can you affect the game. That is something that is in his nature. And he will adjust and adapt. But in the national team it's a little bit easier because normally you play against teams that are lower in your ranking. So probably you are more in control than the opposition.

It's when you play in those games that you are at the same level that it could be the same than in the Premier League.

Bernardo Silva, I mean, to be fair, I think I said a few weeks ago, commentating on Barca, every time I watch Bernardo Silva, I always feel like he's almost like the player's player, the player that everybody in the league will admire.

I think you had a little bit about that when you were a player. I think people just admired you from everywhere. How would you say, I mean, he's incredible. I mean, he's almost defending, he's attacking, he's everywhere.

Yeah, for me, the example when we speak about what the Portuguese footballer should be is Bernardo Silva. And when I say that is because he's a tactical guy. He wants information. He wants to know where the space is. He can play inside. He knows how to play inside.

He knows how to play on the outside. He's not a quick player, but he's so intelligent how to drag you out. And then technically, he's a gift. He's left-footed, but he can use both. But then he's a competitor. And this is what I found that is incredible

in the Portuguese culture, is you got this mixture in the same player. Normally we used to have the players that they were very tactical, and they were always the ones that they wanna be creative, and then you had the competitor.

But to have both, and this is Bernardo Silva. When you've got somebody, if you want a reliable job, it's Bernardo Silva. If you wanna mark the biggest guy in the box, it's Bernardo Silva. If you wanna appreciate where the space is gonna appear, it's Bernardo Silva. If you wanna attack inside,

you're gonna use it with Bernardo. If you wanna attack in the outside, you're gonna use Bernardo. It's this intelligent guy that then has got incredible standards. When you speak with teammates,

they all appreciate what he does. You have no worries about his physicality and even in the World Cup, he's just... his football intelligence covers his lack of physicality, shall we say, in terms of running speed. He's not the quickest of it. It's a bit like scores. You could focus sometimes on a player, stuff he's not good at,

but then don't take away from what he's brilliant at. Do you think his intelligence covers all of that? Totally.

Can you cope with eight games without physicality? That's something that you have to manage during the tournament.

That's where the squad comes into it then.

Yeah, and you can manage everything. But in terms of being able to affect the game with your strength and qualities, without a doubt.

I think you can see that because Pep respects him so much because obviously he's so strict on his kind of structure. with Sylver you do sometimes see him drop beside Rodri and then he'll go

higher and I think he's so trusted but Pep isn't a big fan of that so...

Yeah but I think he goes everywhere because there is an instruction.

I think he gets his teammates out of trouble sometimes. There might be areas of the pitch where it's 2v2. He sprints over and bees that man.

He's like that after games. Even when Sid were having a difficult spell last year, he came out and he was critical to players, but not overboard. And he's produced a couple of... Obviously, you said, defect everybody. He affects games.

He does.

That's what the top players do. It does, and he's prepared to do the things that nobody sees. That many players, a player would sprint if he's gonna get on the ball and he's gonna have a shot on target. But to have a sprint to cover somebody that is, I remember the game against Man United when United were playing a back five

and the wide player was a bit of an issue. And Bernardo probably was the one covering most of the time that. And you appreciate it so much from a tactical point of view, because that's the will of the player, wanting to solve something that it could become an issue,

is nothing that it was given as a role. And that's intelligence that it has. But then Bitinha, when you got these role models in Portuguese football, it happens that Bitinha now is looking to Bernardo Silva, and he's looking to Bruno Fernandes, then Joan Neves is looking into those sort of profiles and that's so contagious.

And that's something that probably you need to take into consideration as well when you put the squad, you don't call the best 26 players, you don't. You call the best, the 26 that they make the best team. And all these aspects come into play. Stick to Football is brought to you by Arm Clothing.

Talk to us about Cristiano, how do you manage, firstly, 41 years, I mean it's a phenomenon, and what he's achieved is absolutely off the scale, but this is something that was brought up at the end, if you did want a high press, that might not be something you can do, so how do you manage the fact that if you want to play a different tactic,

how do you fit him in? How do you manage him as a sort of character and a personality?

I think obviously Cristiano Ronaldo in Portugal and I think in the world of football is a topic of the elevator, isn't it? You come into an elevator, you speak about the weather and everybody has an opinion about Cristiano Ronaldo. I had a situation where I was in a taxi, that the taxi driver said,

oh, you're coach, you probably say, oh, how is it going, good? He said, last game, what did you do? Yeah, we drew against Spain. He said, yeah, you see, with Ronaldo, how are you gonna win a game?

He said, no, that's exactly it. When the team wins, it's the experience of Ronaldo. When you lose, how can you play with Ronaldo? No, for me, it's very simple. It's very simple. He gets, as a national coach,

you have to create the most competitive environment. And it's the environment that he tells you who should play. You were never forced anybody to play. You wouldn't make a decision that it goes against having the stronger team on the pitch. The measurement of a player in the national team, we always look at the player. What is the quality that he brings? That's

number one, and that's something that he needs to be outstanding in one quality. The second one is the experience. Sometimes you want a player without experience because you're going to do something that could be really risky. But in Cristiano's case, he's played five World Cups, he's played five European Championships, he's got 226 appearances. Nobody has the experience that he has. And then there's the third block, that this is the most important, that is the attitude. The attitude changes. These two don't change. But this one, it could be good, bad, a moment of disappointment, a good moment of form. Cristiano, since I arrived

in 2023, has been exemplary. He's been a captain that is an example for everybody and his attitude has been… So, for me, this has been very clear. Then on the football side, Cristiano now is not the Cristiano of the first spell at Manchester United. He's not a winger, he's a player that needs to be very disciplined. Number nine, he's our finisher.

He needs to be ready to make those runs in between the defensive line and becoming special in the box. He scored 25 goals in the last 30 games. I think his feeling in the national team is not more, It's more about how can I leave a mark here? It's more the legacy. And his attitude is measured every day.

And probably he's got more scrutiny than other players because everybody has an opinion. So for me, it's been super, super decisive. Striker that he scores the 25 in 30 is exactly what we want. The discipline, the work, the winning mentality that he brought into the training environment. He's been a great leader and a great captain.

You said you've got eight games to win the tournament. Is it conceivable that he can play all eight games at 41?

That's an interesting... I'm going to answer with an example that I had with Vincent Kompany. When we arrived in 2018, we were considering Can Vini. After two years at Man City, never played three games in a week. Never. For two years. Because it was a difficult period. And we sat down with the medical staff and everybody who controls the data. I said, look, data-wise, he cannot play three games every three days.

He can't. He can't. The last two years never happened. Okay, well, but his leadership is important. Let's see how we're going to manage him. We'll control it. He comes to the camp. We've got three friendlies. He gets injured on the first game. We're playing a friendly.

The doctor says, look, he's missing the first game. Wow. We're playing friendly. The doctor says, look, he's missing the first three games. The first group phase games is going to be out.

Wow.

So now you need to make a decision of do or bring a player that is not going to play the first three games and hoping that you're going to qualify and then you can get him. So I will always remember I had a conversation with Vincent.

I said, Vinny, from a medical point of view, you're out of the World Cup. I said, yes, but there are two World Cups, the group phase and the rest, and I'll be ready for the rest. And it was so convincing that I couldn't say no

because of what it brings. So we play the first three games, the third game it comes on in the last 30 minutes, and then he played every single game, 90 minutes. And we're talking about Japan, Brazil, France, and England. There is no scientific explanation how that happened.

And what is it? These elite brains, when you got a purpose, you can get it. If you say to me, can you do that over 10 months? No, 100% no. Can you do it for a short period of time?

Absolutely yes. When you got that elite brain of executing your purpose. And based on that, Cristiano has got that elitist.

I'm frightened of Portugal.

No, you know, in big tournaments, everything is small details. There's a moment of magic, a bad decision, a penalty shootout. But you...

If you do have to leave him out in one of the games, is he, like, what makes these great players is they want to play. Yes. So when I hear people going, oh he's okay, he will be upset won't he? These players, that's what makes them play until he's 41 years of age. He's got the hunger. These guys want to play in every game and have every training session. So there will

be them hurdles they get over, of course. And I'm sure he won't like being left out. Absolutely. I think it's happened already.

I think in the European Championship, it was a really tough period. And then all of a sudden, as you know, in international football, you're always with the mood of, at the end of the season, you're changing the club,

or what's happening in the next campaign. And I remember we had a camp in the game against Scotland that the second game he was on the bench. And his reaction was to come on second half and score two goals to win the game. And that's what earns him the opportunity

to be important again. And nobody, I hope that nobody, will be happy to be on the bench. Maybe a young player that he wants to come in and it's the first time, but you need a competitive environment and you need players that they would give anything to play.

But then with respect to the colleagues, because you've got 26 players, only 11 start. I think it's different now. I do feel that game has changed immensely in the last 10 years. Before it was all about the starting 11. It's like, can I make the starting 11 or not?

The squad's now.

Now, it's got five subs.

It's the finishers.

The last year, the subs were the difference in the last year.

Finishers.

Start out with Spain, all the teams, yeah.

Our Nations League, the five players that they finish, it's almost that the team always managed to finish stronger than it started. So the five substitutions give us a strong level. And I think that's the modern game. And I think many players now, they don't see themselves as starting XI. They see them, OK, I'm going to finish the game. And it changes the mindset.

That would be the difference, I think, obviously, the World Cup players off the bench. Coming on with the right attitude, obviously, not being all upset, I've been left out, whatever.

We saw that in the Euros. Yeah, I think now we're talking about a player that, obviously, the players that they are 30s, late 30s, they come from a different generation. Now, the younger players, they come up with these five subs, they know that there are players that they play 30 minutes, players that play 60 and players that play 90. Very rarely now, more, I think at club level football, more and more the fitness, not everybody can train the same.

And they know they're coming on Roberto. Some of these top players know they're gonna come on. The manager's not gonna make any changes, as you said, to challenges or conditions. So I think they're watching. I think some players, years ago,

would be sitting on the bench, probably won't even get on. But no, lads are going, you've definitely been going on. And you better come on and obviously affect the game.

I think that's changed a lot. And I think the work that is done at the clubs and the academies, they already, they grow up with that mentality. I think it's different. It's totally, totally different.

But it is the difference in a national team is to have 26 players that they are committed. After playing two games you get only 11 players committed, you're not going to go far.

In an ideal world, you're probably better off winning the first two games, aren't you? So you qualify straight away. And you can maybe give them a little bit of a rest.

Yeah.

No, but I don't like that, Paul. I'll tell you why. I'm very clear with this. I think 48 teams is right. I think the more teams that you get in a World Cup, the more that everybody can have the dream of playing a World Cup and being there. But what I don't like is that there are three teams out of four that they qualify in eight out of 12 groups. What happens, and it's happened twice to me, that you go to the third game already

qualified and what you're looking at is, can I arrest the players? Can I look where the next game will be? I remember we played in the Euros, we were playing Finland, we were already qualified. If we were drawing or losing, Denmark were out. If we were winning, Denmark were in. We won because we wanted to win. I don't believe in going into a game and not wanting to win

because then you can't pick and choose, you just lose in another aspect. We won, Denmark qualified, then it gets to the semifinals, and we were out in the quarterfinals. In the World Cup 2018, we play against England, both qualified, knowing that whoever wins

is gonna play against Brazil. So I don't think the format works. I think it should be the other way around. Eight first places, like the Champions League, they miss one game, they go to the next one. And then everybody else got an extra game.

That means you go to the third game and you got no time to think, is it good to rotate, to get a draw? No, you have to win. Why? Because if you win, you are first and then you don't play the next game.

And here, everybody can get an extra time of recovery. So I think the format needs to adjust but it's very difficult when you're in a World Cup to almost manage that side. You need to be very consistent, obviously you believe in every player that you selected, you need to try to win every game. Even though from the outside, I remember in 2018 we got heavily criticised by winning the third game against England. Because we had to play very well.

You can't just give people a chance to be like you played in the World Cup. Because if you win it, everybody wins the World Cup. Nobody remembers who played. But sometimes there is that pressure of if you can rest, we'll give you a game in the World Cup.

But it is about winning, isn't it? Of course, it is about winning. When you play in a World Cup, you're not going to play half-hearted. You play in a World Cup to make your family proud.

It's a momentum change.

And now you're talking about the teams that arrive to the final, it's eight games. You know the amount of changes that there are normally from this first starting XI to the eighth starting XI in a short period of time. So you cannot have difference in the groups, the players need to be all ready for the start.

Roberto, to finish off the Portugal section, we've got the Microsoft Co-Pilot Round, where... Don't you start giggling, Gil! We have a little quiz, we have some questions as well. So I'm going to have to get up to start with.

It's for all of us.

That's why I like to do it. Bruno Fernandes' stats this season. So, Bruno Fernandes has six goals and 12 assists in 24 Premier League appearances this season. What is his best position? So, the sort of options I'm going to give you is obviously we saw him play under Ruben Almero in a midfield two Depot where he's a bit more restricted We see him now play as a number 10 in a 4-2-3-1 or is he better in a midfield three?

Where would you say in order of 1-2-3 would you prioritize where he should play?

It reminds me a lot Bruno when Kevin De Bruyne Because it was very similar there are players that that don't play in positions. You cannot just say to a player like this, you are in this position, because they need to adjust where the space is in relation to their position. Sometimes you play and they are man-marked. Their position will stop them and they will go man-marked. So you cannot just limit, you can trust these players

to find their space. What Bruno needs to be is close enough to make the final pass.

So higher up the pitch, basically.

However it will be. If you play against Spain, it will be in position number 10. But if you play against a lower block, there will be somebody there, lower marking, then he'll have to drop a little bit and maybe have a longer attack. So I think the context of the game will tell you

where the player should be.

But he has to be close enough to the final third. He has to be. What were you thinking when you were watching him for United and he was sat deep with Casemiro for all those matches?

No, I could understand what the coach was trying to do because obviously if you're playing in a three-full-three that you've got two wide players plus the two tents, plus a number nine, you've got five players that are in front, being able to get the ball from the centre-halves, but it is depending on what you're looking for. I think at that time the coach was looking for somebody that he could have longer possession, that he would get probably that ball from the centre-halves, somebody that he could have that personality to almost build up the play. For us in the

Nashville team, we like him on the final pass, on the shot from distance. That efficiency, like the expected goal, needs to be really, really high when Bruno plays.

I think his expected goals is, I think, nearly nine, I mean, 12 assists. His numbers are phenomenal, aren't they?

Incredible. And he's into that the way he sees the game. And he's got that capacity of, in front of an open goal, he will give the assist. He gets more joy out of an assist rather than a goal and that's a gift.

The same as Ronaldo.

Of course, no, no, no. Cristiano, I think he's got his career has gone through phases where he wanted to be the top goal scorer, he wanted to win certain aspects individually. I think now it's changed. I think he would, I remember a game against Turkey in the Euros, it's one-on-one with the keeper. And he scored two goals in that tournament. And it was a little bit of a noise of,

he didn't, he just squared it to Bruno Fernandes to score. A clear assist. The power that that assist had in the dressing room was stronger than scoring the goal by a mile. And now he's in that moment.

They speak about the 1,000 goals. He's not bothered about 1,000 goals. And he feels, but what's the difference for me? Scoring 1,050 or 950,

I'm the same player. And now it's become a bit different in the final third. I think he appreciates that he attracts two players, he opens a space, so he can make better decisions when and when not to. But it's true that it's changed. This is not the player at 25, 26

that he had to be driven to be a player, that he's got more goals than appearances for Real Madrid.

Ready never changed, that is.

No assists, not on his contract.

Well, that's something. The contract's there.

Obviously, yeah.

That doesn't help when the goal pays you more than assists.

Goal bonus.

Stick to Football is brought to you by Arm Clothing. Is the treatment of Oliver Glasner harsh?

What treatment?

I'll start with you.

You know what, I don't think it's harsh. I think the Palace fans have every right to feel how they do but at the same time, we are talking about a manager who's given them their greatest day ever. But he's joined the Crystal Palace side that do what Crystal Palace do, Steve Parrish, they sell players and that's what happens. I think he's got the umpire obviously, Alisse going, Eze going, Mark Gaye going, and then the players that's coming, obviously he's not replaced them. And he said, that's it, he's done.

Hopefully...

What's the solution?

Well, obviously, we know he's going to leave at the end of the season. I think you want to... I think you shouldn't do any... If you could, don't do no more interviews,

because the interviews he's doing, all, it's football, soccer, but rugby league. You know the sports, the coach is leaving the day. It's acceptable when a manager is leaving a soccer team and he's gone. He's leaving, everyone, and they lose a few games.

Get rid of him. He doesn't want to be here.

But other sports seems to be accepting. And he deserves it. It's a shame the way it's ended because he's brought Palace to a bit of success. But I'm not going to dig the Palace fans out for it. Because Palace fans for years have had to see players leave, go somewhere else and be successful. Now they've seen a manager, don't want to be there neither.

Jamie Carragher said Liverpool's win at Forest was one of the biggest robberies in Premier League history. And there's a guy who knows about robberies. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

I'm sorry, he scored it. And it was Fernando Torres that had his... I think it wasn't the elbow, but it was the full hand on Aliyah Habs' face in a corner. And obviously in VAR today, it would have been disallowed, 100%. But the fact that it was away from home, last minute,

and it meant a win, I remember that.

Can I tell you, remember that cup-winners' cup final we had? When Naeem scored from the half-way?

Yeah, yeah.

That's brilliant.

That hurts now.

That was brilliant.

What a feeling.

That was like...

What about the FA Cup against Arsenal? It was my fault that we probably lost it, I missed a penalty but we hammered them.

Who?

Oh yeah, Cardiff.

Yeah, I missed three good chances. I didn't see...

And the penalty and the penalty shot.

Rude. Rude.

Rude inflection.

We hammered them, honestly. We hammered you.

Yeah, I think we were second at Chelsea and then Covid hit and we're halfway through the season and they just give Chelsea the title.

They did, yeah.

It should have been us, I shouldn't have.

Absolutely. Yeah, I know, but I think we had a game planned. That was worth. We'd had like tougher games to pick and we said...

Did I get a Brian's medal for it? You love your Brian's, so don't melt. I'm going to leave him at the end of the season.

Scoles, you'll remember this, and it's not probably a robbery, but do you remember the goal Chelsea beat us at Old Trafford in 2010, when Carlo Ancelotti, I think was the manager, I think it was 2010, they won the league, and they scored a goal at Old Trafford that Drogba scored, and it was offside? Or was it Diego Costa? I can't remember. But there was a goal that was... I played in the game, yeah. And you played in the game. And if that goal hadn't been conceded, we'd have won the league title.

The Porto game, I saw one.

Oh, the Porto was a sore point.

I thought you'd remember it.

Phil giving away an offside. It was offside. I wasn't offside. Oh, that's right, Scozi, yeah. That's when Mourinho went down the line, wasn't it? And Old Trafford, yeah. Yeah, Scozi was well onside, yeah.

Miles onside.

I thought he was just offside.

Lost two, no, two, one or something, didn't we?

I thought Scozi was offside.

No, I wasn't actually talking about celebrating. What do you think of the new phenomenon of defenders celebrating a challenge? What do you think of that?

I hate it.

I hate it. Am I a dinosaur on commentary?

No, I like it.

They literally...

Who does it the most, do you think?

See, John and Pitfair win the Manara.

Yeah, I washed it. No. I think it's been... Do you remember?

I think that's been a coaching...

Yeah, fucking Gabi and Salih.

A coaching tool.

Ten minutes into the game.

A coaching tool.

Yeah, I think...

A tool.

So the coach is actually encouraging it.

I remember, isn't it? To win a game, you need to defend well. And I remember it became really strong within coaching, the reaction between Buffon, Bonucci, and Chiellini. I don't know if you remember when they were at Juventus and then at Italy, and they were celebrating.

Whatever happened in that box, that was a goal. Chiellini was big at that one. And Bonucci and Buffon. And they had this feeling that everything mattered. And then it was contagious. Anybody that got into that box, it was, wow, we need intensity, this matters. And I think that was, I used it as well.

You use that and you replay it and you create a culture of this is important to win games. And I think that's grown a little bit. And it's like giving... I think if it's a big block, you go,

fantastic, but not, lads, you're playing in the backcourt.

You can take it a little bit too far.

Did you have a celebratory time?

I like the celebratory.

Did you watch Frenchellini last week on the sideline?

Roberto, what you just said

made me change my view on it a little bit. You could be sprinting 60 metres, Gary, and put a tackle that you know stopping that cross, stop a chance. This is a big moment. I remember Everton Man United, Kunya makes a run and he drops.

He celebrates.

That was having an effect on the scoreline. Why should you not celebrate?

A hundred grand a week running back.

Roberto, I must admit...

But everybody earns the same money, it's not just him, isn't it?

My viewpoint to what you've just said is that players celebrate in the box whilst the game's still going on and they should be getting ready for set pieces.

Totally, yeah, yeah. Then you can take it too far.

Yeah, but actually what what you just said.

Especially in front of the defender. In front of the defender, something that you would...

It's all good like that, yeah, but...

It's not really celebrating.

Celebrating is running into the crowd, not running into the crowd and all that. They're just like happy...

That's a lot of... It's like... Brilliant, I dab it. On the lips.

On the lips though, Gowdy.

I like him a lot.

Yeah, but you can see Scoles' face went tight when he...

Yeah, exactly.

His face went right.

That was a bit of a swatting.

He wiped it off.

He wiped it instantly.

I think he'd rather kiss you.

Nice. I was next in line, I went, oh... LAUGHTER Yeah, but... I don't know how to win.

I'd rather not score.

Right, Newcastle have lost 17 straight games at Manchester City. Which place did you hate travelling to?

The ones where you lost?

What's your worst ground? What's your most difficult ground?

The Dell.

The Dell was bad for a couple of years.

I didn't like Chelsea that much as a player. Yeah, Chelsea was difficult. But is that because you lost there? I just found my own performances and had some good results but some bad ones.

They had the best record in Chelsea.

Yeah, that's what I mean. You like going to the grounds where you're going to get a win.

Roberto, where could you never win?

I think Bolton, away. Because for Wigan, that's a big derby. That was the derby. And I remember, and that's a little bit the ups and downs in the Premier League. We beat Liverpool at home, obviously, for Wigan. That was the first time we beat Liverpool and it was such a high. Next game is away at Bolton, I think, and we lost 4-0. And there were grounds that probably didn't suit our club.

I would say it was more a rivalry. But it was a beautiful stadium, the Riboca Stadium.

They were strong at the time.

Last question for you, Roberto. If you forget Portugal, if you could pick another squad to go into this World Cup with, who would it be?

I thought you were going to ask him.

You're supposed to answer that.

It's Ireland, because Ireland beat Portugal in one of the group matches.

Exactly.

Thanks, everybody.

It's a tough question.

I know you did a backup game, Armenia wasn't coming up at all. Which team is best equipped to win it other than Portugal?

So...

England.

I do think that the more that you watch it, the players that they play in the Champions League are the ones that they are the most prepared in the international scene. So when you look at it, you got the players that they are more involved in the difficult games in the Champions League. So you got France, you got, you would say Germany,

and then Brazil and Argentina. The biggest percentage of 75%, 80% of the players play in Europe, play in the Champions League. Those are teams that are very difficult on the day. They're very flexible, they can change many things. It's difficult to prepare games against those sort of squads.

Could Brazil do what you think Brazil would have a chance? Yes, I think you got the experience of Ancelotti. And individually, they got the quality to...

I was reading about that with Neymar.

To win any game. But the complexity is to get a team out of those individuals.

England? What about England?

Yeah, I love obviously Thomas Tuchel. He knows the English game in a way, he can give a different angle. I think Gareth Southgate has changed the dressing room of England. I remember playing against England

when Gareth was starting and you saw a difference in the way he treated the England camp as a club. You could see that the players were enjoying going back to England. I don't think that was the case before.

I think the pressure, it was almost trying not to get found out or not to be blamed about being in England's set-up. And England, the only thing is with England, they've been out of the Ligue 1 in the Nations League so we haven't seen them playing against the top teams in the last year or so, but they are the players that they have. They need to be considered in those 7 or 8 teams that anybody can win it.

I want to ask you one more question. I was just thinking that while you were speaking. In your Portugal team, you've got Vitina, Bernardo Silva, Bruno, João Neves, Neto, Cristiano. You've got six or seven players there, and you get them all in. Yeah. England have got this conundrum that we're all asking as England fans,

apart from obviously Roy around this table, of Jude Bellingham, Cole Palmer, Phil Foden, Morgan Rodgers, there's one more, Saka. How do you get all...

Maduweke.

How do you get all those players in? So if you think about particularly that number 10 role, Eze, that number 10 role, it's Jude, Morgan Rodgers, Phil Foden, Eze, how would you get those players in?

Yeah, I think first is how the player feels about it. Because I think if a player doesn't want it to work out, it won't work out. I think it's that block of the attitude that I was talking. It starts from that, that the player's open to make it work. The other aspect I think is the easiest one. I think tactically being flexible,

I think is easy now for the players. They know you can play one system on the ball, a system of the ball. You can be a little bit just adaptable. I enjoy that challenge. I enjoy when you got outstanding quality and you need to make it fit in.

But it comes from the player. If the player doesn't wanna make it work, or he doesn't believe in it, that's where the big problem comes. We got it in a way that I like to create the environment to be as competitive as it can.

And let's see if training can make the decision who plays. Rather than, okay, I'm coming with my set idea, and Scholes will play with Roy, and then you lose players around that. The moment that you are very clear in your decisions from the office,

I always believe in international football, you need to be very much open-minded to change your mind until the last second when you see the last training session, and a player shows something that surprises you. And that's, over my different years in international football,

that's what becomes very strong. It's almost that, OK, wow, if you train well, you could be starting here. It's not what the coach thinks and the idea that is coming, because whatever he thinks could go in my favor or not, there's nothing I can do here. The moment that you create a really, a very competitive environment and

then it's okay, well, yeah, he's in a better shape than him. I thought that he could play because of his experience and what is, but no, he needs to start. If you start creating that, it's easier to adapt and to put them in. Because if you got an idea, oh, I'm going to use it, and then the player that is outside loses faith, oh, why is he starting when I train better? And then it's like, okay, then it's you waiting for the player to be ready

when you call him up, but it doesn't work like that. It should be the other way around. But it comes from the commitment of the players. And it's harder and harder for the players, the scrutiny that they have, the pressure that they have at the clubs. To be committed to the national team is very easy in South America, very easy. What they do is just to get to the national team. In Europe, it becomes more of a choice

and sometimes gets in the middle of what I'm doing with the club. That's why it's just creating that environment is what allows players to fit in.

Roberto, thank you very much for coming on City to football.

It's been a pleasure.

Thank you, Roberto. Thank you, Roberto.

It's been a pleasure.