Spurs Sack Thomas Frank & Ange Postecoglou Doesn’t Hold Back | Stick to Football EP 116

You can go your own way

Isn't Roy Young one of them?

You can go your own way

I like that song, that's more my...

You can call it another lonely day

Metal rock

Thank you What's happening, G4?

Roy said he's retiring in a year

From?

From everything

Yeah, he says that all the time

He said when he hits 55

So you... I'm glad you came in

Why, what's up? What's up, Gary?

Here he is. She said that you're retiring in a year from everything.

Yeah.

Don't tell Jill anything.

Why are the conversation so weird? In the green room. You said you were going to stop and we were walking down. It wasn't the green room, Gary. We were walking down.

Jill just can't stop telling me.

Are we the problem?

There's still camera.

Yeah, it's not you, it's me. Good!

That's a bit of competition.

You didn't reply to his... Oh, it's...

Cos I know I've seen him today.

I'm at a boxing match.

Feeling Jill wouldn't be about. I just had a feeling.

Who's the boxing match? It's a charity boxing match.

Yeah, lovely.

What charity? Like, white collar thing?

I think they take the fire brigade versus the police or something.

Oh, yes, they get it.

All right, Jill.

No, Shelley's sister's fighting, isn't she? She's a firefighter, yeah. So she used to play football, obviously, for like England and everything. Now she's a firefighter. So she's fighting.

Do you do boxing?

No.

No, there's a bit of training. But there's a big thing in Liverpool, actually, in about three or four weeks.

You caught us bendy-flighting Liverpool.

Yeah, I think somebody messaged us about that.

Yeah, like ex-pros fighting each other. Did you do that? I don't think I would. We had a fight a few months ago. There was a couple of fighters.

Did Jodie Morris fight someone?

Yeah, it's the same sort of thing.

Jodie fought, was it David Bentley?

Yeah, yeah.

Jodie.

Jodie, man.

I might make Bradley Ores fight. Who's he fighting? I don't know if I know what's going on with that. I'm sure I got an invite to that actually. He's just a good guy, bro. He's a really good guy.

If you could choose one person to fight, who would you fight?

Like you, he looks good. What's up, girl? You look...

I don't... I'm trying to think, how many people do you think would tune in if me and you fought live? Oh, my God. Let me do it again. Yeah. LAUGHTER Two men. How many people?

I think quite a few people.

You've done a bit, haven't you? I saw you with Tony Bellew, right? Doing a bit.

Yeah, so people fucking got this thing. I go to boxing gym, I don't box in circuits or something like that. But my mate was in there yesterday, Bradley Owe, ex-pro. He was starting his training for this. The guy who's organised it, I think, I'm sure, was he a young keeper at Arsenal, Graeme Stack? Yeah, Graeme Stack. So he's like the, he's sort of a charity obviously, but that was the one your tournament I think was in London. Yes. So they brought it to

Liverpool. So Brad, I did obviously try and get different faces and people involved. Are

you two going to get involved or? No, Brad wouldn't be a fair contest. Honestly, you'd be...

You'd struggle now, obviously.

No, but he...

He's done a little bit.

You're underestimating Gary's natural power.

No, no, no.

He's just a lump, innit? He's not a lump. No, he's... Everything about him is just big. He just fucks... He'd be holding on to you. He'd be holding on to you. He'd weigh you down.

That's something you're proud of, isn't it? I'm surprised no one's ever hit me. LAUGHTER Stick to Football is brought to you by Arm Clothing.

Look what Mourinho's done, look what we've seen Conte do when they do their rants, talking about how they've got no ambition, they've got those managers thinking,

right, we put those in and let's leave it.

The idea that Spurs could get dragged into a relegation zone and potentially go down would be catastrophic and I think they just can't take that risk anymore.

Thomas Frank's just been sacked.

Our guest this week is Hans Postekoglu.

Should we get him in?

Hans, in you come!

Hot timing, Hans!

Tough timing, eh?

It's a curious club Tottenham, you know. It's made a major pivot at the end of last year, not just with me, but with Daniel leaving as well. You've got to understand, there's going to be some instability there.

Is there almost a lack of belief that you can go and do something?

100% there is, yeah, absolutely. And that was the thing I was trying to break. It's Spursy, I mean, that's what it was all about.

Is that a thing? You're inside the building.

You see what would be a sort of quite mundane block or a clearance from each player. If you're doing this, and you've got a corner to defend, that is not right. They throw to the goalie, and you just see all the West Ham players running back. The ball's there, just don't run it back to the edge of the box, I'm screaming at the telephone! Where you going?!

Come on!

Right, we had some football last night.

Yeah.

That's why I wanted to ask you, when you go, Cole Palmer's missed, have you ever missed one like that?

No. Never?

Not like that.

Where you think like...

It's not that close.

Oh, I felt sorry for him.

Was that a really bad one, that? I thought it was. Because of how close it is, the opinion on goal scorers, as soon as you're talking about goals, you go to the striker or something. He's got the hump about that. But the thing with it is, is that for me as a striker, you're watching that even if you're a yard out,

because that can happen. So a striker, he might come in just thinking, ah, this is a goal, I'm so close, but, He could not believe it. You think he's relaxed? Absolutely relaxed. You don't miss that if you just punch it in the goal.

But that's his attitude, isn't it? And he's not a striker, is he?

No, no, no. That's the thing.

He's a brilliant player, but he's not a striker.

But the thing is, with strikers, this is why I can confidently say, Harry Kane never miss that. Is it a focus, concentration thing? It's absolute focus because he's coming, he can see everything, the goalie's not there, it's just coming across, he's thinking he's just going to go like that and it's gone in. But that is why you don't do it. Absolutely too casual and that is why that can happen.

He looks sharp though, doesn't he? He does, yes.

He's getting to it. He could be peeking right at the back of the thing and stuff. It makes a game look so easy.

The first goal, just receiving in the pocket, one touch, bang.

Brilliant. Brilliant to watch.

The way he glides, the way he moves.

If he's had his best, I think it's hard to leave him out for England. But Roy, I think, fair enough, I hear you talk about Cole Palmer. You're obviously, to be fair, you set a high bar for players and you don't give too much candy to even the greatest players sometimes. But with him, I always feel like there's an admiration that's like... There is. I've got a month to be honest. A bit of jealousy towards him because of his attitude.

He's dead, again, the opposite to when I played. So when I see players like playing with Dad, what Gilles just said, that makes the game. I'm missing a chance like that. But when he's at it, I'd say he's got it.

It's just like, you can imagine when he's younger, because to keep that kind of attitude towards football and you're a professional playing with that kind of like... He's got that. You can imagine when he was younger, this is probably why they...

That's why Pep... I can see Pep getting frustrated with that a little bit.

Yeah, but you've got to let him go.

Did you see the next time he got the ball after the miss? You know when you know someone's like... You know someone you've all played and you've made a mistake and you want to make up for it, but you're not good enough are you? You could see in his head, I'm going to do something here. And he got a foul right on the edge of the... He just sort of got it and he just went, right, I'm off. And he just went on this little... Remember the free kick, right, the last kick of the game?

That was it. But he got it. But I could just see his mentality, he was like,

I've got to do something here, I've got to... I know he's a kid, probably thinks I'm the best player on this team. He's got that energy. I like to add a ball to my net. Obviously, there's always a fine line between confidence and cockiness, but I think when he's at his best, he does then back it up. I just enjoy watching him play. A bit like Scorzi, these lads who kind of... they make the game look easy.

Do you know who the player in tight areas against players that are like 6'1 or 6'2 and he gets out of it and wriggles out of it and then he pops up on the right wing and all of a sudden he's at the edge of the box.

You almost don't know what position he plays from.

No, he's doing, even the game against Liverpool, his influence on the game.

To get in the box like that.

Yeah, his instinct for that goal and then for the little ball that leads to the penalty.

Again, you have to admire that.

Gaby, your commentary was so on point. You were like, I think they need a bit more from Haaland and Silva

and then literally he heads it and then Silva puts it in. It was like literally to the point. To be fair, I just felt that it was growing away from Silva. I felt like it was just all disappearing. I thought actually Pep Guardiola's not going to win a league two years on the bounce.

I still don't think he will.

No, I don't think he will, but my point is, is it going to drift towards an innocuous sort of like, just two years of Pep just not being anywhere near it. I thought, he's going to be out of a title. I'm not saying he's necessarily backing it now, but that would be... We all watch loads of football.

Why are we surprised that happened? You know, when you have players like Haaland on the pitch, something can happen. You can be watching a game and go, these teams, they're awful and they're 70-odd, We've kind of done it at United, Arsenal, Liverpool particularly over the years. You find moments, that's what players do. After a while, we're like, what a win, but why are we that surprised?

Because we see so many games.

The thing with Haaland watching him, and listen, I think you said at the end of the game, he turns up in the big moments, as in love Haaland, I've said, for me, he's probably the best goalscorer we've ever seen in English football. You know, games to goals ratio. But whenever I see him up against, like, I think... When you think of the best defenders in the world, so, let's say, Van Dijk, every time he's up against Van Dijk,

it feels almost too easy for Van Dijk, and it should be, considering who he's up against. Or I see him against Inter Milan in the Champions League final, Bastoni or someone, or Ruud's a good a couple of times for Real Madrid. You know, big chap.

Has he got that nastiness in his make-up? Because he's obviously where he's from, sometimes the Scandinavians aren't... I'd love to see him as well have a go with somebody physically,

because he's six foot two, six, 3. Just knock a few people over and stand over them. From, we were obviously watching from the box. It was almost like he was shaking hands with Van Dijk and almost getting them all.

You know when...

I was getting angry with him.

Why?

As the game went on. The reason I sort of said they've got to step up now was because I was getting angrier with the fact that...

Thomas Frank's just been sacked.

Oh, wow. Kieran, just a Grim Reaper over my shoulder like that, it's gonna frighten me.

Is he definitely or just Instagram?

You know something, you know what he was just gonna say about Van Dijk? I think we should change our tact here a bit now.

What?

Maybe Thomas Frank?

Let's do Thomas Frank and come back.

Can I just say quickly about Harland, I'm glad that they kept him on because usually if strikers aren't playing... Yeah, but sometimes they take them off, don't they?

And then big moments...

Micah was on a match that night.

Micah didn't want to start him.

What, he didn't want to start him?

For what? Not start Harlan?

Because the game before, they'd looked OK with a split striker. Oh my gosh.

Oh!

And then he wanted them to bring him off. What?! You're joking. You never take a player like that off. No, but you used to say you'd get big goals 86th, 87th minute,

whereas now they take strikers off if they're not doing well.

Are you sure he didn't stick you off?

No, he didn't.

I have time.

He didn't.

This episode of Stick to Football is brought to you by Armed Clothing. This was going to be our big section today, Tottenham, to be fair. What is it? And the title of the section was, could Spurs get relegated? They're currently sacked. I mean, obviously, the Manchester United goal last night was helpful to them.

Yeah, massively.

Five goals, but I mean, they've sacked Thomas Frank. I'm...

I'm not surprised.

I'm not surprised, but the initial reaction should be, whatever the football point of view, not a manager losing his job like that. He's still new to the club. I know we'll analyse it. But it's not good, man. It's not good for these managers. I know, again, you're shaking hands with the devil. You go into certain clubs, you know if you're going through a sticky patch, you just know they won of difficult spell you're going to have, you're gone.

You know what as well, Roy, you can see... It's funny because you're thinking they've got 12 days before the next game, you're thinking if they're going to do something, they'll probably do it now, or they're going to wait, because the next game is the North London derby. So you're thinking, is he going to give them the time to get it right so maybe they can beat Arsenal and then have a little bit of a run, or are they going to sack him now? I didn't think they'd sack him now, but I think...

You know, they have to. They have to move now.

I always think when a stadium's empty, I always think... They see money.

To be fair, the billionaire owners look at it and that is a clear...

You're struggling, they're thinking... And that is a class you struggle in, the thing. I did the Spurs-Chelsea game very early in the season and I was sort of worried for... I don't know Thomas Frank, but something about it didn't feel right. The fans and the way they were trying to go about it and playing, it's like a derby game. And Thomas Frank...

Remember at Brentford, no matter what the game, they'd almost do a lap of honour. He was almost like, delighted to be in the Premier League. The fans and the team, everyone's together. And he walked around the side of the pitch and I was watching him, because you stay a bit longer on the commentary, and I was watching him, he was going round, clapping the fans.

And it was like, he almost thought he was back at Bremford, and it was like the no, this is difficult. You can almost feel it being a bit different. And the problem he's had is Daniel Levy employed him, who left straight away, so that the people in charge are not there.

No, he was, that was Daniel Levy. I know, but Vinay came in from Arsenal, this sort of wonder CEO, that was supposed to be the one that basically Daniel was passing over sort of what would be power to, whether that happened or not we don't know but he sat there Vinay to be fair for I don't know how long I don't know the guy but he meant it very well thought of Arsenal. He goes to Tottenham and look

there would be pressure on him then going has he the people be looking at new CEOs going ex-Arsenal have you got the power and the strength to get rid of this manager sports fans might be looking at him a little bit, but you go back to it, the start manager going, but what happens to a little bit of going, let's get through this sticky patch?

You know the thing is, Roy, there's no way...

I know the whole far as been pouring.

As an Arsenal guy, Vini, as an Arsenal guy,

going in there and then start... Man United, if they'd kept XI on the pitch I actually thought they were playing well but then he's been let down hasn't he?

Yeah, we'll get to him.

I mean look, I think the one thing I would say is, Thomas Frank to be fair, you're always right, the manager's lost his job and to be fair I think we all like Thomas Frank, what year at Brentford, interviewing him, a good guy, but when he have walked out that door in the last five, six, seven, eight, nine years. The likes of Mourinho, Conte, Nuno, Ang. Obviously now him. They're not all mugs, these guys. Some of these are serial winners.

Conte's gone over to Italy and Mourinho's doing things. That club, what is wrong with that football club? Forget the Spurs-y stuff, the flaky stuff, let's seriously talk about the fact that this football club won a Europa League last year, so it won a trophy for the first time in 40-odd years, 50 years. But it's a shocker of a performer. It's a shocker of a performer when it comes to Premier League, when it comes to... Only Pocettino, really, for a couple of years...

Harry Redknapp had a little spell in. Pochettino was the one they should have really backed at that stage when he finished second.

Are they one of the big spenders? They spend a lot of money as well, don't they? Not as much as the rest, but they do spend, to be fair, in line with clubs that do better.

What do you do in terms of spend? If you look at the net spend, it'll be probably above Liverpool's, say, Wages and when you look at a lot of people who look at the money and wages They actually go for your wage bill Wage bill actually more than your transfer spend almost determined a little bit where the league is I suppose and Tottenham are just like they don't pay that was under Daniel Levy Now we can say he runs the club fantastically

Well training ground stadium and get all that but they don't pay the type of wages that the other players... Well you go back to when we all played against Spurs, I know from a football point of view you always felt again there's something missing at that football club don't you? But what is it? I think there's a softness no doubt on the pitch and off it and whatever goes on in the building and we've heard they've obviously got a magnificent stadium, they've got an amazing training ground so from the outside looking and you, from a business point of view, it's a brilliant football club. But I'm talking about having a proper DNA and turning it week in, week out and putting a shift in.

And Jill you said they were a bit unlucky last week, but they still lost the game and self-inflicted. Their home form going back to last season, it's not good. But you don't know what these managers know, but whoever goes in next, you're shaking hands with the devil. And as soon as you go into Spurs, the next manager going to Spurs, don't be talking about projects, you just have to survive for a year or two. Because as soon as you get through a difficult spell,

you're guaranteed to be sacked at Spurs. Maybe years ago we didn't think that with Spurs. You'd think, well, they might give somebody a couple of years anyway.

But Spurs are as bad as anybody. No one ever believes they'll win, though, do they? I don't ever believe they'll... I'm not going to say win. I mean, you know, they'll be a big team. So if you think of... Say, for years, Arsenal and Spurs... For me, Arsenal are a bigger club than Spurs, but for a good few years, it was almost like

you were both coming sort of fourth and fifth. Poch was there and Arteta was starting. But you do think, if Arsenal get this right they could win the league or they're getting better each year. I would never think that about Spurs. But what's the difference? Some of the sides, clubs, stadiums...

Less the year you would have thought that was their biggest chance.

I think it's got to be the ownership. It's got to be the ownership. Because look, to be fair, what you can say is that Manchester City have brought owners in and they've become successful Chelsea have brought owners in and become successful Blackburn brought owners in and became successful Clubs have brought owners in and become successful

Yeah but they're owners who just go and just absolutely blow everyone out the window

No but my point is But Tottenham to be fair to them with what they have If they were to sell to a different set of owners When you have sustained failure when big money's been spent for a long time You have to then look at the top. You can't go anywhere else then. You can't keep looking at the players and the manager. You've got to look at something different. If you've got repeated failure time and time again...

That's on the pitch though now, isn't it? Because of it, you're successful. Absolutely. So the people who own Spurs will say, as business people, Spurs is just part of the bigger picture, they would say we've got the best stadium, we make lots of money from concerts and NFL, so that's what they bought the club for I think from a business point of view, they'll see that as success. I mean now we must look at the fact that they do need a change of ownership to become successful because obviously you've seen that this ownership are not going to bring success, they're not.

Why would they sell it if they see it as a successful business? Look, I think there comes a point where...

You do that now though, aren't we in the Newcastle situation where, and listen, I think Tottenham bring more money into the club because of the stadium and I get that, but this idea of bringing some rich guy in, are you allowed to do that now with PSA? I mean, look at Newcastle, they're just a glass ceiling. But they have rich guys in there now. What's another rich guy...

Is it more decision-making? No, but are we not talking just about money?

I agree with you, but we're talking about mentality here, aren't we?

Well, the thing is as well, Guy, you have to look as well. When you look at... To be able to produce an Ari Kane, right? I think our greatest goal scorer, he's proven that at level. And for the football club and the owners to not recognise we need to build something around this striker because this guy will deliver. And they didn't do that all those years to the point.

I don't think they're ever going to do anything if they can't do it when they've got someone like him

who's come through the ranks, bro.

What have Spurs won in the last 50 years? Last 50 years? Last 50 years? No, not even that. Obviously, FA Cup, I've gone back

now, obviously the 80s, FA Cups. Have they won five, would it be five trophies? Yeah, so once you get out of the early 80s, so they win the UEFA Cup in 1984, they challenge for the title with Everton in 85, and then they get to the Cup Final in 87, they lose that against Coventry. So once you get out of the mid-80s, that's when I first started watching football.

So it's a 40 years. So it's a 5-6. So we're going to sit here and discuss why Spurs are, you know, in disarray. You go, well, they've actually only won five, is it roughly, is it 5-6 trophies in 50, 100 years?

Can we find out? That's a big expectation. They want a league in six weeks. How far back do you want to go? You're talking a good period of time there, aren't you? It's a long time.

This is where you go back to what your class is, a big club or a successful club. Is it the revenue? Is it the stadium? Or is it actually getting your hands on a trophy? It's all of those things, to be fair. It's history, it's stadium, it's also trophies. Yeah, but we shouldn't be sitting there scratching our heads going, Spurs, they've not done anything the last few years.

They've not done anything for the last...

For the last few years.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying to you. It's a sustained failure. You've said it yourself. It's the owners haven't got the ambition of a Bramovic. Bramovic wants to win. I don't know Spurs owners want to win. Where does the expectation come from then?

If Royce saying obviously they haven't won...

The history of life, wouldn't you say?

Is that more of the way they're played or the characters they've had?

It's always like they're a bit weird.

I think they won the double, the first team to win the double. I think they're the first English team to win a European trophy.

They're a massive club. They've got a huge history. I agree with you. I'm a Spurs fan. I followed Spurs when I was a kid, yeah, of course.

It's funny, a few years ago, James said to me, who's the bigger club, Tottenham or Chelsea? I said Tottenham. Now, in my head, but then the more I thought about it, I thought it's wrong. As a kid, Tottenham were huge. And Chelsea were the team who sometimes might actually get relegated. Tottenham, for me, were one of the big five. That's because I was born in 1978,

started watching football in the mid-80s. Tottenham, for me, were a massive club. Chelsea were just a team in the First Division. But if you're someone who's like 25, 30,

now you're like, as Royce said, How can you clash Tottenham as a team? There's always a good win at Holford, Chelsea... But I think our mistake is when we talk about Spurs or Spurs last weekend, you know, you go, there's a nice ring to it. You always think Spurs will bring something to the party.

Yeah.

But they'll be going home by themselves, you know what I mean?

It's one of them ones, you know what I mean?

They'll talk all night and go home on their own. I do, like when it's with Son, Kane, Maddison. Yeah, but if you look at Jill, and for instance, you look at him against Burnley, with Romero, what's he doing the captain? What he's doing coming out and speaking like he is.

Should we set an example?

I wanted to get onto him.

You know something, I said instantly, as soon as they'd done that, I sort of said, find him, find him, do something, say something, Thomas? Yeah, terrified, aren't they? Do you know something? I was thinking, he looks... And the way he walked off when he got sent off made me even more angry. It's like he didn't care.

But you're on about Spurs. What do Spurs fans want? When you watch Spurs, the first thing they say, they always say, most Spurs fans say, we want we play a certain style of football. But I'm happy with that. Happy with what? You can play beautiful football

and great football, entertaining football and win. Manchester City, United, Liverpool's football underclub, it's great football. So I think this idea that fans should either have to accept crap football and win, or if you play entertaining football you might not win, they should expect,

Spurs fans should expect great football and to be successful.

I think that was probably something years ago, where you'd always look at them and be a bit soft. They weren't tough enough to win the league. We had this debate with Man United a few weeks ago in terms of DNA. But I think the DNA of most top clubs now is almost to play good football or pass in the games more.

Technical now. good football or passing the game is more technical. Now, but something we spoke about on Monday Night Football, if you look at probably, let's say, the last 10 years of the Premier League, when we take these managers, and I think we might have mentioned it on here, at the bottom of the Premier League, they're pragmatic, difficult to beat, maybe a little bit direct, reliant on set pieces.

Can they make that jump to a club to play maybe a little bit more football? And so often in the Premier League it hasn't worked. Even like, Moisey going to United, Roy Hodgson to Liverpool, they play a certain style. And it's not a criticism of them, by the way. I'm just thinking of other managers now.

Nuno going to Tottenham doesn't quite work. Big Sam going to Newcastle. Because they always say, if I have a better style of player, I'll play that type of football. But it doesn't quite make... When you heard that Thomas Frank was going to...

Did you feel the same way there?

No, because, you know what, righty? What I've just said there, the more I was thinking of Thomas Frank, the more it got me thinking about other managers. Because Thomas Frank was one of those managers... ball at Brentford, you'd almost say he's got a good mix in some ways when you watch Brentford but he couldn't really transform it.

If you're not playing good football though you've got to be hard to beat don't you?

And I think Tottenham fans want a plan B sometimes, it's like the managers just go with this one style of play.

I definitely think those Spurs fans if want to have that element of entertainment.

Like the Glen Otherway and all that.

I don't think a lot of clubs are now though, you know. Even with Liverpool with Slot, he had a run of not losing,

not winning all the time, but the fans are going bananas about it's a bit slow and turgid, the football, pragmatic. I don't get that. With Liverpool, I've only been a couple of games, but I don't get that with Liverpool at all, that criticism of this slow, poor football. But going back to... You've probably watched all their games. I have watched a lot of them, Bowen. I lost a lot of them, I don't think this football's turgid, I just don't think it at all. You've just watched the Man City game, which is completely different. Oh my goodness. Going back to... The back together I interviewed Daniel Levy in the summer and he was talking about when he brought in Nuno and then he brought in obviously Marino and Conte and he actually said that basically

it was to bring in cold-hearted, ruthless killers who would win for the club Because that was his attempt at saying, look we get the good football bit, we've tried that for years, we played great football under Harry, great football under Pacettino and other managers, however we need now serial winners in the football club and that experiment failed for them.

Massively, from Daniel Levy's point of view.

No, what I'm saying to you is the thinking behind it at the time, you couldn't argue with the thinking of bringing these types of managers in but…

Only if you're going to back them because those same managers were constantly talking about not being backed. And the attitude of the people upstairs, and the fact that they don't want... Look what Mourinho's done, look what we've seen Conte do when they do their rants, talking about how they've got no ambition. They've got those managers thinking,

right, we put those in and let's leave it.

But righty, just on that though, I don't believe for one minute Daniel Levy would have said to Jose Jose or to Antonio Conte on the way in, by the way, we're going to spend 250 million a year here, they will have known the circumstances. He won't have lied to them and said, there's a checkbook that's basically...

There must have been some promises of something to get those managers to come, though, Gary.

I think you know the score at Tottenham. They're not going to spend like Chelsea or...

They sacked Mourinho a week before the cup final, was it? Yeah, yeah. But when you're getting Mourinho or Conte, you're thinking that they're going to go to that next place. That's why I'm... I was excited from... I was like, oh my God, Mourinho at Tottenham. The first thing I thought, oh shit, Arsenal, Tottenham.

They're going to... That's the first I'm thinking

because they've got the right manager. This episode of Stick to Football is brought to you by Armed Clothing. Where do Tottenham go from here now in terms of right now? Who's available? Who are they going to get? Is it a stopgap? I think they just need to get out of this relegation... They don't want to get into this relegation battle, do they? They just need someone to come in and win games till the end.

United weren't in danger of going down. Carrick? Carrick in the summer?

Carrick's safe, he's got a job.

United weren't in danger of going down. United quite for Spurs. Hey, he played for Spurs. Carrick, given the job, he knows everybody. United said basically that they wanted a bridge to the end of the season. And they appointed Michael Carrick and they're quite clear about that at the time. What the Tottenham do, do they do the same and appoint someone who basically knows the club? Who's there?

They're still in Europe, aren't they? Yeah, but... So they're still competing to try and... Oh no, Roy. They've sacked the manager because of that. They've won 2-17 in the league. What about Oli? What he's doing. Let's take it on seriously. No, no, no, I'm just saying. But managers have been sacked, righty, so let's do it seriously. Are you going to get a stopgap or get a manager?

No, it's true though, he's just been sacked.

Who's available?

Ryan Mason? Will they go back to Ryan Mason?

No, no, that's been done. That's done. There could be a relegation fight. Who's the favourites? What manager's available? Who's the favourites now for the job to go in?

They'll be out there straight away.

They wouldn't get him, but would they go for Xabi Alonso? I don't think Xabi Alonso would want to talk to him.

They've moved quickly in respects of getting rid of him.

I think they have to go for somebody. I don't think it'd be a stopgap. There is people available, but that's not the question. Who's the right option? There's loads available. There'll be loads of... The man in Sweden's sitting here now. I want to see Klopp back in the Premier League.

He just lost five-nil his last game.

Perfect for Toppen.

Deserby, Pochettino, Xavi, Marco Silva, Uriola,

Robbie Keane, the wrong Keane, Ruben Amarin, Glasner, Maresca. Can we get Klopp back in the Premier League? I miss him.

So out of those names, Kieran McKenna, Glasner, Lee Vilva, De Zerbe, Pochettino, they're the five, six names that are being thrown around right now.

I just say instantly, my mate Pochettino.

Can I tell you something, dog? No, he's got the wings. You see all that, managers and their agents, right? For all that negativity we said last 20 minutes of Spurs, it's still a great job for somebody, isn't it? There'll be still somebody going, get me in there and I can maybe work their magic.

Depends what they want to do, Gael, like you say. What do they want to do? They want to build something.

The fans have been going bananas about the football in terms of what they're playing. You know, when we go for something, you think of Xavi, he won the league at Barcelona, he lost his job there. There's Urbi's type of football.

I feel for Thomas Fratt simply because I thought that would have been a good... It's the next step for him, would be Tottenham, and him doing well there. I thought that he would have brought that kind of football,

what we talked about. You didn't know what you were going to beat in that. But you know, we always... That's a great away record, isn't it? That'd be way hard to beat away. Do you know the words we always have with people,

lads here and Jill, it's like, who's the right fit? I think it has to be a certain personality, maybe going to Spurs, whoever that might be, just because they've done well at Brentford,

it's always that argument, But do you not think bringing somebody in with a connection to the club just to avoid this relegation battle and then reset...

You love a connection with the club.

He gets us, he gets us!

I think it needs a bit of heart, doesn't it? They can get into that relegation. Or, like Gary, would you, like Roy said, get a manager now for long-term?

I think if they could get N'Zerbi now, they'd get him, wouldn't they? Pochettino would be difficult because of the American World Cup being so important to America. The idea of being distracted going into that World Cup for the US is just... I can't see that happening.

You know how I feel.

Could he agree and then leave after the World Cup? He won't do it now, though. But the worry for all that, listen, just see the season out I think it's Xabi or Marco Silva Roy, the first time I ever heard a team are too good to go down was the Forest team with Brian Clough That was the first time I ever heard that in my life

Do you remember that narrative during that season when Brian Clough's the manager, one of the greats of all time You were in that dressing room, what was that like in terms of that feeling of being in a dressing room where people are saying you're too good to go down? Could you smell it? No, I don't think we were kind of saying it too much. No, you weren't saying it. We didn't have a goal scorer and injuries. No, it's not good.

You're down in free fall, we've got no momentum, couldn't score goals. bottom, you had to get out of it and Spurs could be in that. Spurs got much better players than what we had at Forest, we had some good players at Forest, yeah.

We'll see the character in the players.

Is that the big test of character? We had good players, we had good characters but we didn't have a goal scorer obviously.

But they're close to it now to Spurs, you'll find out what these players are about now

because they're going to it now to Spurs. You'll find out what these players are about now. It was this morning it was mentioned that basically this idea, you're too good to go down. The only argument to that is there is three or four other really bad teams you're thinking for Spurs. You still think, yeah Spurs could go down. You look at the points and the league table. There's one position available isn't he? Right, and you'd like to think are they better than the other two or three you've got. If somebody comes in... I think West Ham and Forest might be okay. I think... West Ham only got nervous last time, they just got deeper and deeper and let that goal in.

But I'm telling you, West Ham are...

But righty...

I think a Forest change...

Righty, righty, I... I mean, look, to be fair, I watched Leeds twice in, I think it was late November or December, and thought they could be okay because the guys up front aren't bad. Somerville, Bowen, Castellanos and Pablo, they're a handful by the way.

I think if I really, the lads mentioned, if any of them are going, I think they'll get a grip of Spurs in terms of going down. Yeah.

I'm not saying they'll win seven AKMs on the spin, They should have enough. If you're a team that you're looking forward to playing Spurs at the moment. Not if a new guy comes in, right?

National.

This is what I'm saying, hopefully the manager don't come in but like...

He'll clip that up.

I tell you what, the thing is that North London derby next for them, it's perfect if they get the right guy in, it'll give the whole place a lift. Are you worried about the home game and what was the score on that? Oh yeah. It was a treat, wasn't it? You're not as fingers full, were you?

It was a fault. Well it was like Carrick coming in at United, wasn't he? And then he's playing City.

Like it's a great opportunity to get fans on board straight away.

I just had a feeling that if they're going to do it, are they going to do it if he lost the North London derby They've got to move now and they've done it. They've done it, they've moved. Mm. Let's see how they go.

Final question on it, right decision or wrong decision?

I think in the current climate, you have to probably say it was the right decision for them, for the club and what the club need right now, because it feels like it's in free fall. They're too close for comfort. They had to act.

Yeah, I think it was right for Thomas Frank as well. I think for a long time I've been watching him, he doesn't look comfortable. Don't, man. He doesn't look comfortable in press conferences and it's almost, you can see bags under his eyes. The thing is, he's always had that kind of bad professory kind of vibe.

He's got this jittery kind of, so it looks even worse when he's under pressure.

It looks like he's out of control, but he's probably not. Feel for him. I stick to managers having more time. I think I always say that. I don't think they get enough time. I don't know that, that's the game.

But then we're talking about a club.

Spurs was poor last year as well, as if he's gone in. He's just obviously not been able to get it going. But he's still a brilliant manager and I'm sure he'll bounce back. I don't think clubs can afford to take a chance anymore. I just think the money's become so...

I know, but why panic? People say that but then sometimes the payout for top, you hope that they give it to him because normally they drag it out for like 20 years or something to pay.

People think, oh he's left with £12 million, it's taken him 50 years to get it. I think that's important for a manager to negotiate that on the way in writing to be fair. That would be the main thing is negotiating. One thing the club I would say about that is, what you don't want to do, and I know this from experience What you don't want to do, he's come in, he's not done what he said he would do Which is get Tottenham into probably the top six, right? So do you want to reward failure as an owner? There's got to be a consequence of poor results for a manager as well

So I'm putting this on devil's advocate, but I feel sorry Not after 20 odd games But I feel sorry for Thomas Frank right now, I do, I think it's awful But if you're Tottenham and you sat fourth from bottom, fifth from bottom in the Premier League And you spent 140 million quid in the summer and you're thinking you're expecting better You don't also want to be rewarding failure for basically sort of not achieving things So, you know, it's rumoured that Amering walks away with10 million, other managers walk away with £10 million. You can't say that, to me I have some sympathy for a club in some ways,

because when the manager comes in by the way, he's telling them he's going to get this team to deliver. But 20-odd games then, is that what he said? I know, I get it. But if you ask Thomas Frank on the way in, will you ever be fifth from bottom in the league? I'll say, no, no, I'll have them in the top half of the table. So there's an element of... You just said top six a few minutes ago. There's no way I'd think he went in there and said,

I'll get us in the top six next year. I'd be shocked if he said that. Within Europa League, Roy, they've spent have been sacked. So, the 16th... I don't think he was sitting there last summer saying I'm gonna eat at the top six. I bet you're thinking listen I'll steady a ship and try and build something and have a project. So I was there a week last Sunday at Tottenham against City and at halftime I think I had to text I said he will be gone by tomorrow lunchtime I think I put that on the group. Because the feeling in the ground, I'd never seen Tottenham so low. It was like, it was gone.

Was there empty seats then?

Yeah, I didn't think they were going to come out for the second half, but actually Tottenham scored like five minutes after the second half and did well in the second half and they came out and the stadium filled up again because they were all in the bars. So they had left. They had come back. So they had left. No, but Roy, to be fair, I said on the group, my feeling was at that moment, he'll be gone by tomorrow lunchtime.

Actually, the fact he came back in that game has probably prolonged his stay for a week or so. But I felt like it was something ending. You just felt like that. You smell it, you feel it. Do you think if they'd lost that game do what they should have done in the second half, which was score a third and a fourth, then I think he'd have been gone the next day.

You think they'd have sacked him after City?

It wasn't that right, it was the feeling. It's sometimes just a feeling, I think I've said this about Louis van Gaal, I got sacked by Valencia, came home, watched the game at United, and there was Crystal Palace on a Tuesday night at home, in the stadium and they said it was 70 odd but it wasn't and the stadium was empty the football was really bad and I thought he's getting sacked very quickly he was sacked within a week or so you just feel it at a big club sometimes when a manager is just not going to survive the eerie almost like graveyards type

atmosphere that exists and that's what happened at Tottenham. They're just there aren't they? They're just there because that's what they do, they're in their routine. They're watching but they're actually just like that. They're not participating. Yeah, they're vacant and I think the fans have become vacant in this last few weeks.

I know, but I go back to it's still not right for a manager to get 20 out of games. Come on, mate. I don't care. All logic goes onto it.

He's built a nice little record himself. It would have been a good move.

You don't know how it hasn't worked. But what you find at Brentford, Brentford for all how well they've done the last few years, sorry no, Thomas Frank, Dick, when he was at Brentford he'd lose five or six games and nobody would say that and then he could win three or four but at Spurs, obviously different headlines, different expectations and maybe deep down when you don't get that record going home, you don't get a good start, the fans, it's hard to be letting a secret out of the hat here a little bit, aren't we? Because we film two records in one day, but I've just had a thing in me here. Our guest this week is Hans Postekoglu. He's just pulled out?

No. No, he was supposed to come on, obviously, later to go on for next week, but because of what's just happened, he's happy to come in here and have a chat about the situation at Tottenham.

So should we get him in then?

This episode of Stick to Football is brought to you by Armed Clothing. Ang in you come, Ang in you come.

Mid-flow.

Hot timing Ang.

Hot timing eh?

How are you, how are you? Good to see you.

You too mate, Good to see you. You too, mate. Good to see you. Hi, Ang.

Hi, Ang. Wow.

You all right?

Good to see you. Hey, mate. Good, mate.

How are you?

Good, mate.

Good, mate.

Good, mate.

Good, mate. Yeah, I know. I was driving up and I got a message. Yeah. So, it wasn't from the Tottenham board, was it?

LAUGHTER

No. I mean, look, Ang, I think the first question...

The tea would be great, thank you, bud.

The first question really is obviously about Thomas Frank. You've managed against him, you've spoke to him probably a few times,

many times, maybe. Yeah, yeah, yeah. thoughts? Look it's always having been in that position there twice in the last sort of six months it's it's tough it's tough and you know that he can't be the only issue at the club right and that's probably for every manager but ultimately that's what we get judged on but you know it goes back to me it's a curious club Tottenham you know it's made back to me. It's a curious club, Tottenham, you know. It's made a major pivot at the end of last year, not just with me but with Daniel leaving

as well. And you've created this whole sort of environment of uncertainty. Because there's no guarantees, it doesn't matter which manager you bring in. I mean, they've had world-class managers there that haven't had success. And for what reason? You know, what was the reason for such a major pivot?

So Thomas is walking in and what's his, you know, what's his objective? What's the club's objective? I mean, at the start of the year they sort of said, compete on all fronts. Well, the club hasn't competed on all fronts for a very long time. And you also, you know, the most influential person at the club… …for the last 20 years is also going.

So if you're going to do such a major pivot… …then you've got to understand there's going to be some instability there. Now did Thomas know he was walking into that? I don't know. And it's a fair departure from me. I mean, anyone who kind of studies the game will know that it wasn't like it was a progression for me.

I built that sort of squad for, one of a better term, to play a certain way over the last couple of years. And he's sort of coming in and like I said, there's always... So it's a curious club type of mate. It's, yeah.

What do you mean by curious? And in the sense that we've just discussed it before, we've talked about yourself, you know, Conte, Mourinho, Pochettino, Nuno, Thomas Frank now. There is an absolute sort of convoy of managers with great reputations who have walked

into that football club and can about turn the…

Only one won something though.

But my point is that everybody's deemed to have failed in their positions.

What is that culture mentality? What is that? What is that that exists there that means it's difficult to succeed?

You look at that list of names and there isn't really a common thread through there as to what they're trying to do. And I do think part of Tottenham's DNA, for want of a better word, is they do like their team to play a certain way. Yeah. And I think it's fair to say with Maurizio they were going down that path. Although, you know, at the same time, I think people have been too dismissive of Harry's

influence through that period. He's an unbelievable player. If I had Harry the last two years, that first year we finished fifth. I'm convinced we would have finished in Champions League spots, you know. So even him leaving, like that's, you can't plug that hole. It's just impossible. So when you look at those managers, like I said, they've

gone from Mauricio who played a certain way and sort of I think fit the DNA, then the big thing was, well, they haven't won anything. We need winners. So let's go for Jose. Jose gets them to a cup final and they sack him the week before the cup. So you're going, if you're talking about winners, well, in a-off game… …I wouldn't mind Jose being my manager at my club just for a one-off game. What happens beyond that is…and then, you know… …then it was Antonio because again he's another winner, you know.

And then Antonio goes and I sort of come in. They say, well we want the football, you know. With Antonio we made Champions League but we didn't have the football. So we want the football and you've got the football. Even though my DNA is I win as well. So then we go down that path and then… So that's what I mean. It's a real curious in terms of understanding…

…what are they trying to build? You know, what are they? Is it…there's obviously… …they've built an unbelievable stadium, unbelievable training facilities. But when you look at the expenditure, particularly in their wages structure, they're not a big

club.

I saw that because when we were trying to sign players we weren't in the market for those players.

Not a big club in terms of the wages that they pay? Because the money, the transfer fees, not the biggest thing.

They're always there or they're about.

But there's a cap on wages that won't be broken?

Yeah, there's certain players that we... I mean, at the end of my first year, when we finished fifth, for me, OK, how do you go from fifth to really challenging? Well, we had to sign Premier League-ready players. But finishing fifth that year didn't get us Champions League, we didn't have the money. So we end up signing Dom Solanke, who was absolutely, I was really keen on him, I really liked him. And three teenagers.

You know, I was looking at Pedro Neto and Bueno and Semenya at the time, Mark Yehi. Because I said, if we're going to go from fifth to there, that's what the other big clubs would do in that moment. And those three teenagers are outstanding young players. If we're going to go from fifth to there, that's what the other big clubs would do in that moment. And those three teenagers are outstanding young players. Brilliant young... And I think they'll be great players for Tottenham, but they're not going to get you from fifth

to fourth and third. But what was coming out from the club was that, no, we're a club that can compete on

all fronts. So when you say, you've obviously got great experience as a manager, managers all over the world at certain clubs, is Tottenham different to those other clubs in terms of getting what you want onto the pitch or looking to take the club forward?

Well, they're all unique, they're all different, but when you walk into Tottenham, what you see everywhere is to dare is to do. It's everywhere. And yet their actions are almost the antithesis of that in terms of they, and you know, whether you like or dislike them, you give credit to Daniel because that path has got a new stadium, new facilities, but taking a safe path.

I think what they didn't realise that to actually win, you've got to take some risks at some point. You've got to be... And that's the DNA of the club.

Who's been taking the risks, Anj? Daniel or the buff Daniel?

I never got that high up, mate. I don't know. Like, it's not... I never had these conversations. I never really spent a lot of time with Daniel. I mean, I think he liked to keep his distance from his managers anyway. I mean, I think maybe apart from Mauricio… …no other manager really got close to him.

So I didn't spend a lot of time to say, well, is this a club policy? Because obviously he's not the majority shareholder. So I don't know. I really don't know. So when the frustrations came out… …you didn't have anyone to say, well, what's happening? No. And the one thing I thought to myself righty… …when I took the job is, I go, I've got to be… …I remember telling my wife this. I go, you pull me up whenever it happens. But I had to make sure my frustrations didn't come out, Jose, even Maurizio towards the end, and it didn't end well, right?

So I'm going to be really disciplined here and not say, and maybe that does the club a disservice because if I express my frustration, but I felt that that doesn't get you anywhere.

No.

It didn't. And, you know, again, I don't think Daniel liked that sort of laundry to be sort of put out in public. So, and you kind of, you've got to respect that. And I say, yeah, my frustrations was, yeah, yeah.

Did you feel like you had the freedom to play football your way? Or did you feel like, say, if you were getting beat,

were people challenging you on your style of play?

Yeah, but that never worried me, Jo, because that's kind of been a constant in my career. That, you know, it's never been always smooth. And I've never let that affect what I was trying to do, because I think that's my job, right? So irrespective of what everyone else is telling me about how I should... Yeah, but I'm the manager. You've employed me to be the manager.

So I'm going that's the way Tottenham should go. So, I kind of, I mean, even last year, I know we, you know, we, and by the way, we were never in a relegation battle last year. We never got even close. I mean, we finished 13 points off relegation. But even when we were sort of towards back end of the year where it was quite obvious we were going for something else, We still scored 64 goals last year. You know, we were still, I was still trying to get the guys,

but we weren't equipped to do it. But I still felt that was the way forward. I said, if we're ever going to become the team that I thought Tottenham wanted to be, then this was the path. So, you know, and in the end, I have to do that.

I think every manager, I do it the way you want to. And is there a discrepancy between what they say to you on the way in and what they promise in respect of the wages and the cap? Because we've talked about this before, would they explain that we've got a salary cap, that this is the restrictions and we can't go and get these players on the way in so that you know and you expect them maybe to change when you finish fifth? Or is it a case of they're actually too fair, say, no, we're going to invest in it and we're going to sort of... How's that worked?

Yeah, look, again, not deep discussions on that, but it's not so much what they tell you, it's what goes out publicly. And I still felt like, you know, Tottenham as a club were saying we're one of the big boys. And the reality is, I don't think they are, in terms of my experience over the last two years.

Of how they act.

Yeah. And, you know, when Arsenal need players, they'll spend 100 million on Declan Rice. I don't see Tottenham doing that. Ever? No.

Maybe now, I don't know. But not in, not just my history, even predating me. And again, a lot of that was, okay, they were building a stadium, so obviously finances were a challenge. I guess the bit I didn't realise

was just how much Champions League football makes a difference. And I think that's why there was always this desperation, because that provided the kitty, you know? And you go, okay, well, so that means in my first year, they finished eighth the year before.

We've lost Harry two days before we played Brentford in the first game. I've got to try and make, now that, you know, I'm going, well.

That's a tall order.

Yeah, it's a tough one. We almost got there. I mean, we finished fifth. Any other year that probably would have been. And if we did, maybe last year, we wouldn't have bought three teenagers. We might have.

But I still don't think we would have spent, it's not the transfer fee, the wages to really attract. I mean, when was the last time Tottenham really signed somebody here you go, wow. Yeah. Gaza. Yeah, well, back then, yeah, absolutely.

Exactly.

And you know what, Roy, they talk about that period and they weren't overly successful then, but they did win FA Cups, they did have exciting players. And I think the supporters, when I speak to them, they speak fondly of that era, even though they weren't playing maybe in the Champions League

or winning the league because they did. They had those star players. And I think, like I said, I think people underestimate the role Harry played over the last 10 years. He's an unbelievable, I mean, I only worked with him for a couple of months.

He's the best player I've ever sort of witnessed close up in my whole career. And Laura, I mean, I haven't been at the highest level, but just watching him at training. Yeah. I mean, we played the last friendly game, like, before, and, you know, I was still hoping, against hope he would stay, and he scored four goals. We played Shakhtar, and the next week we were playing Renfrew, and I know he's not going

to be there. So, that masked, I think, a lot of things. But it's not like Harry Leeds and then you go sign Erling Haaland. That doesn't happen.

Andrew, we were talking before, and you were talking about the board's ambition and wages and different things. But we're going back, our own experience in football, probably going back 40 years to when Spurs were probably last successful in the early 80s, UEFA Cup and FA Cups. If you take almost the board out, is there a mentality

and almost a feeling, I look from the outside that no one actually believes Tottenham can win. Or go and win a big game. Or not so much a big game, a big trophy.

It is. Look, Spursy. It's Spursy.

Is that a thing? You're inside the building. There's players.

When they're coming in, is there almost a lack of belief that you can go and do something? 100% there is. Yeah, absolutely. And that was the thing I was trying to break. And, you know, my whole statement about winning things in the second year was I was trying to... I was doing that for the club, because no-one internally would dare say that

because they were just scared. They'd been close a few times and, oh, no, if we get there... Even... I remember the day of the Europa Final, and by that stage, the players were brilliant, you know, and I knew we'd win that day, you know, I was just convinced the path we'd taken, and everyone in the sort of hotel was really calm,

and I remember, it was one of the few times, actually, Daniel came in and we had a coffee in the morning, and he said, everyone's really relaxed. Even he was, and the only thing he said to me, which was bizarre as a motivational point, he goes, he said something like, oh, you know what, I've been in seven finals,

seven finals and we haven't won one.

I'm like, oh.

That's a good thing to hop on.

That's good, I accept.

But I know why he said that, because of that. So that's what I'm saying, Jamie, right? So you've got that and that does exist, absolutely. And I think, and then you break that by winning something and what do you do? You tear it all up and you go again. Like we had the Super Cup final, and I'll back myself to win that.

We could have two trophies in the space of two months and then all of a sudden that's out the window that they can't win a big game. You've done that, you've broken that. So that's what I mean, that's the curiosity in me of understanding why, and it's not because it's me, because at the end of the day, I've done what I've done, I was there for two years,

but what are you trying to achieve? The biggest thing you had hanging over you

was this Spursy tag, and I'm sure you all thought, you know what, come the final, Man United will win because they just know how to win. Exactly. I said that before the final, and obviously credit to yourself and the players, I think we said on this show, even when Man United are really struggling in the last few years, they're still managing to get over the line in the big game. They beat Man City in the FA Cup final. I was convinced, I just couldn't see how Tottenham could win a big game because of that mentality I've got of Tottenham. That Man United will just turn up and they'll just, even though they're not a great team,

they just have that aura of where Man United were supposed to win things.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that existed. I mean, there isn't a Tottenham supporter that I see now that doesn't want to hug me. Not because, yeah, okay, we won, but because they just never thought it would happen. They just never thought they in, you know, because they've, I said, they've been close so many times and had world-class managers, world-class players, you know, they've made finals, semifinals, and yet, okay.

And it was, look, to be honest, the reason I was convinced we'd win because that's what I sold to the players. I said to them, you know, I think I've said the story where outside the Tottenham dressing room at the home ground, there's all the photos, but it's only of the teams that have won things. And I walked them through that and I just said, have a look at those walls.

What do you notice? I said, most of them are in black and white. Because that's how long ago. And I go, who's not on these walls? I said, Harry's not on these walls. Said, Sonny, and he said, Sonny, I go, Sonny, you're not on these walls. Only one way we get on these walls, boys. So that was a big driving force for me

that I kind of used it as, that's why I was convinced, get to the final, that we would win, because I think when it got tough and it was gonna get tough, I think we had more to win than Man U on the night. I said, Man U, they've always got something to lean on, a crutch of success.

This was a chance for this group of players, and that's the story I sold them. Well, mate, you guys got a chance to elevate yourself above all the other players that have come in the last sort of 40 years.

How did you feel yourself going into that game

in terms of your job, did you feel like it was on the line even though you were preparing for this massive game?

Yeah, I knew I was gone.

Really?

Yeah, I knew I was gone probably around I think the end of January, early February I knew I was gone. And I said to the coaches, I said look, it's quite obvious at the time, I said we weren't in a relegation, we were I think 16th points away from relegation, we were I think 16 points away from relegation, I said look, we're in the quarter finals of the Europa League, I think we can win it. And that means not just winning a trophy, you know how much, but that also means Champions League football. I said but the reality is, get your helmets on because every week we're going to be copping it. I said well I'll take that, don't worry, I'll take the responsibility for that. But also if we get knocked out of any stage of the Europa League, I said, I'm pretty much sure it's over

So I knew it was gone because you get a sense of that with the conversations you have, you know about people No one was talking to me about and you know, the transfer window or preseason next year So you kind of know and that was fine. I was I was I didn't understand it, but I'm thinking you know what again? I didn't want to get distracted. I was so laser focused on, even for myself, what a, you know, it's taken me 30 years to get here. What a unique opportunity to win a European trophy at a club that hasn't had success for such a long time.

I know I'll remember it. So I wasn't going to let that distract me, but yeah, I knew I was going.

And thank you very much for coming on this week. And we'll see you next week. LAUGHTER Or just throw it back to London, you know? This episode of Stick To Football is brought to you by Armed Clothing. This segment is brought to you by Microsoft Co-Pilot as part of a partnership with the Premier League. I've got my new toy. Right, here we go.

Following Dominic Somers' lies, free kick at the weekend, can the Premier League companion, powered by Coal Pilot, give me the top five players to score free kicks in the Premier League history?

So, let me...

Like, who got the most?

Yes.

Beckham and Ward-Prouse?

Becks. Let me get that thing up.

Is he really Toppen?

Thierry.

No, not a chance. So the Premier League companion, powered by Coal Pilot, has given me the five top goal scorers from free kicks in Premier League history.

So we know the top two.

Who are the top two?

Beckham and Ward-Prowse.

Okay, Beckham and Ward-Prowse.

Ronaldo.

Yes, Jill.

Rooney.

Rooney?

No. Thierry Henry.

Thierry.

And one more. Gerrard. The fourth. Lampard. With 12 free kicks. Goals. How many did Beckham score at the top?

I know how many Beckham scored.

But the all of the Premier League. How do you know that? Because I've listened to him. He's a football man. Wow. And Warpouse is on.

Warpouse is three or four behind. No, he's 17. 17, Jamie. Because he was nearly in West Ham a couple of times. You've got one player. He's one of the Premier League greats.

He's one of the Premier League greats.

Zola.

Yeah.

Zola.

I thought it was Zola.

Good shot.

Well done.

So that one, we blasted that.

You got these questions last night.

How many did Trent get?

Trent, I think would have got six. How many did Zola got? Got one down at Chelsea. Oh, so who was fifth on that list, guys?

Ronaldo.

And what was the Diger?

12.

12. I think Trent Moody got eight, seven, eight.

Who is the player that you think would have been on there but isn't? Who was the best free-kick taker? I thought De Bruyne would have been on there. Oh, yeah, good one. Here we go, Trent. How many do you think Trent scored? Six or seven. Nine.

Six or seven.

You'll have to set a date.

Six or seven. Anything else you wanted to ask it?

How many did De Bruyne score?

Is this the AKA?

Gabby? Yeah.

Oh, is it?

I think the Liverpool goalie criticise a goalkeeper.

Remember what you were saying about don't have a wall at all. I think, again...

Or if you're going to have one, get the right numbers in. Get the right numbers, because suppose we can't take an easy smash there. But there's no way that's not hitting somebody in and around the chest. Free kick goal in Premier League history? What's the best free kick we've ever seen? I think Ronaldo's. The one against Portsmouth was good, wasn't it? Because that's the first time I think we saw that knuckle kick, wasn't it? In the league? Gaz is in the Cup Semi-Final.

Amney De Bruyne, free kicks?

Tell me your friends.

Eight or nine, eight or nine or less.

Three?

Five. You would never have thought that, would you? Gary, how much did Beckham practice his free kicks? A lot.

Like, after every training session?

I say about him, he kicked more footballs than I've ever seen anyone else kick a football. When someone says to me, how many times did David Beckham practice football? He literally, from the moment he went out, he just obsessed with kicking balls onto the pitch, coming off the pitch.

Would you agree? Like, he was just always kicking the ball. Yeah. Was anybody else?

Was Gerrard, Steve Gerrard like that?

Yeah, I know what you mean. Bex just literally constantly kicked footballs.

It's said he filled four different slabs.

Practising throw-ins.

He was doing throw-ins. Cantona was keeping the ball up against... Eric was always last to leave. I was forced off the training pitch. These stories about players. What were you doing? Forced in. What were you doing?

Arguing.

He was in that.

I was getting ready for training but you hear these stories. He was walking in, seeing he was on the phone. Everyone still has their phones back then. Now everyone says, Canton, you should stay behind after all. Finish till midnight.

All these stories.

Midnight!

Practice free kicks. Midnight! He didn't practice every day like that. 30 seasons of data all at your fingertips, from every moment that makes you a fan, from club history to your favourite players. Go to the Premier League Companion, powered by Copilot, in the Premier League app. And by the way, Copilot's pretty good.

Get on it. I use it every single day. The Golden Game is taking over Super 6 this February, which means the jackpot will double this weekend if Aston Villa beat Newcastle, from £250,000 to £500,000. It's completely free to play, just predict six scores this weekend and the money could be yours. 18 plus, TNCs apply. We did well. Did we? I checked, yes.

Well... Let's be surprised.

Last week, Gary and Jamie, nine points.

Wee! It's over. Not bad.

Nine points. Very good. 86. There's no way we're beating them.

No chance. Should we be better?

No way.

Dioroy Ian, 11 points. Yes!

Yes, Jil, you're right.

Squeaky bomb tank.

There you go.

Nice.

Airspurs over there.

10 points. You know something?

Airspurs are my...

You were top 22% of players. You beat 640,000 players. We beat 640. 76, 86.

I bet you I got them 11.

I bet you I got them 11.

It's FA Cup round, isn't it? This is where the real students of the game come out. So here we go. Salford.

Look at Salford. I'd say...

You know, Jill's walking there. She's got insight.

Didn't they beat them the last time? Was it 8-0? 8-0.

I'll go 9.

Let them...

No, I won't.

Not for Karl.

My mate.

Gary, Jamie, you go first.

Let them go first.

I'll go 4-0.

4-1.

You want to go? I'd love 4 do it, Jamie. What owner would ever do that?

I would never do that.

And Salford, would he go up? Honestly, he won't mess about.

No, Karl won't mess around.

What an opportunity though.

They're in a much better situation than last time.

I think five or six. Six nil.

Six nil.

No, I think Salford will be well-oiled. So what do you think? What do you think, Jill? 6-4. I would have said less, but go on. Say what you think.

I would have said like 3-0.

To who?

To City.

It was 9-1 last year.

I know, but they're in a much better position.

I think 10-1 against Exeter.

10-1 against Exeter.

Oh, Exeter scored.

Can we put a 6 in please? Sorry, Carl. I love Carl Revenson.

What about Southampton last night? Southampton versus Leicester.

They were 3-0 down,

came back in 1-4-3.

I just kept seeing another goal,

and another goal, and I was like, whoa! Is that Southampton v Leicester, that? That is indeed.

You can't go against Southampton.

Oh, my God.

Come on.

Wow.

Family before football.

It's a blockbuster. It's a fight, it's a massive fight.

Clean sheet and my future son-in-law's sent to half, so...

THEY LAUGH

Roy, bring him on here one week. Bring Té on, yeah. He's a lovely guy. No, just talk about being a young player through an academy.

Yeah, of course, I'd say to him, yeah.

Yeah.

Right, so clean sheet.

Oh, sorry, go, sorry.

Yeah. You saying that Leicester did score three against them?

Clean sheet.

No, no, I think the opposite. 2-1. You're going to think you've got 2-1.

2-1 Southampton. 2-1 Southampton, nice one Roy.

What are you saying, James? 2-0 then, yeah?

2-0.

Southampton?

Ridiculous.

Absolutely ridiculous.

Right, Aston Villa versus Newcastle. This is Super 6 for this game. I think...

So you're off this weekend? You're off, are you going away anywhere?

You got a trip?

Double points!

Three days though.

Yeah. Are you going skiing?

Three days. You love a trip away, I'm telling you. I'm not living.

Are you watching the Winter Olympics?

So whoever gets this, we double it up.

Winter on?

No. I think, Jill, they're always way skiing, me and you were. What did we do yesterday? Method coffee yesterday? Yeah, we had a coffee.

Yeah.

Is it straight to penalties or is it extra time than penalties?

Pass the ball to me. Newcastle don't want to go home.

I treated Jill to lunch.

Did you?

Oh, no, you didn't.

She invites me, but you...

Okay. 2-1 Villa. That's a safe one, that. And Newcastle.

That's what they've done. Anyone who does 2-1 is a safe winner.

I think Newcastle are going to get topped. They looked a bit better. More of a gambler.

There was a bit of energy about them last night.

Villa.

It was that one where you watched that game for the first half and then put my new one. He's flicking. Yeah, that was it though. No, I think Philip, I think, I'm not sure he's obsessed with the FA Cup.

Who, who am I?

I think he needs a trip.

When we get through, maybe something in Europe. No, I'm going to chat with Jamie. We need to catch these.

Shall we go Newcastle?

Newcastle, Newcastle 2-1.

OK.

You know something? Liverpool, Brighton, they've got incident. Liverpool will always be Brighton at home, surely. It was 2-0 in the league.

Yeah, Liverpool. Is there a goal?

I think this might just be a flat game. This is Saturday. What did you say? It's going to be a flat game?

No, I think we'll be the exciter.

LAUGHTER

Liverpool, Liverpool. Yeah, it's going to be one of those where Liverpool just...

I think 2-1 Liverpool. You're doing 2-1 for everything. If he's right, it's fine.

2-0.

2-0. I don't think we're giving Brighton 4 goals. I'll give Brighton a goal of 2-1.

Brighton will score, Danny Wellborough will score.

I'm going to go 1-0. We're both playing Wednesday night. This is Saturday night.

Stoke Fulham. This is Saturday night, just fixate on that. Don't worry about the midweek game, we play the game in front of you.

Stoke Fulham. Stoke Fulham at home, Fulham Stadium.

I fancy Fulham. Fulham have got some lively players.

2-1.

Harry Wilson.

I think that is them kind of...

2-1, it doesn't matter.

No, we're calm, we're nearly 2-0. 2-0 to Fulham. Hold on.

The centre-back's out for Fulham, aren't they? Yeah, they've got a game three weeks later.

Arsenal-Wigan.

Oh!

Clean sheet for Wigan. He played last week.

No, he's not playing.

He's not playing? Oh, he's going to win. He's giving it a few more days, is he? 6-1, you got to give up your last 9-2-1. If he's available the following week, I won't be happy. I think that's a...

Tell him he has to take another two weeks off. Arsenal we good?

I think...

Obviously he's going to want to play against Arsenal though.

2.

I said that.

I think 4-0 to Wijnaldum.

Wijnaldum has been injured all season. 4-0 to Arsenal he's got. Are you going to the match? Are you away? No, I'm away. I'm going to another team match. Is everybody away? Three-one.

Okay, I'm in Dublin doing some charity work. Thank you so much. Super six.

Right, yeah.

He's doing a Sky advert every week. You must be minted off them for that advert.

Must be minted.

Oh, my God. He must be.

Loaded. Charity! So this morning I was sat there and I was thinking, it was off the back of the United game last night, Sesco scored an absolutely incredible goal. I was thinking about actually at the start of the season, we had these what would be unproven strikers coming into the league that were quite big money. I'll list them all out to you, so Wurz, Ekotike, Sesco, Mbermo, obviously Mbermo's more of a thing, Dillap, Xiao Pedro, Yoquerez, all these strikers we talked about at the start of the season and we're now probably

just over halfway through and I was thinking about sort of Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal, United all needed a centre forward and there was nothing perfect out there for any of them really in the market was there? And they were all sort of deliberating, should we go Shesco, should we go Jocares, should we go Dillap? United tried to get Dillap. So basically, so far, Ekotike, we're going to play either a game of hit, miss or maybe.

And this is just so far.

Hit, miss or maybe, OK.

Ekotike scored 10 Premier League goals, two assists in 22 games, six as a sub. I think we'd all pretty much, I mean I'm saying that, but he's been a hit so far at TK hasn't he?

Yeah.

At the start of the season, I said that basically, you said he'd be a hit Ian. I said eventually, but not straight away, and I was wrong. He's been a hit straight away.

Thank you very much, Gary.

Florian Wurz, four Premier League goals, two assists in 24 games. Has he been a hit so far, a miss or a maybe?

I think he's in the middle. He's a maybe. He's definitely improved.

But I thought that was enough to say.

I still think it'll take him a full season to get up to speed. He'll be like next year. I remember Modric and all these boys took time to settle in their spurs, get used to the one player. Who? That Modric years ago. I could not see how he was going to become a top player.

Did you see that?

I was working at Mottottenham and you see him do stuff and you think this guy's really good. They're the bad guys at Real Madrid. He does defy logic though, Modric.

He does. match. And the position he played. But he ended up having a career playing in the middle of the path. Yeah, I thought he'd be at number 10 or out the way. It's a bit like Bernardo Silva what he does sometimes, a bit like that. Right, third one, Yocheres. We all said at the start of the season that he was going to be a hit. I think Ian, you said that between, I think you said 15 goals. I didn't say 15, I said between 10 and 12. Yeah. Why are you lying? He could get 10 to 12. That's not a big target, is it?

10 or 12.

What's he on?

And he takes penalties.

He's scored eight goals, eight Premier League goals so far.

I'm alright.

With 13, 14 games to go. Is it hit, miss or maybe?

Maybe.

I'm maybe.

Yeah. Maybe.

Maybe. By the end of the season, the goals he'll get.

Fingers crossed.

Maybe. No, I'm going to give him a hit. I'm going to send a hit. You're less convinced than him about him.

Yeah, because like...

You're a striker for Arsenal.

Yeah, but he's given him more expectations.

He's playing a mind game as well. for that and he's saying maybe. Of course he's going to be on track for 10 goals for Arsenal. My point is, he's saying maybe

and he's going to be on track for what he said he would do.

Yeah because if we're going to judge him by goals you could probably say yeah. What do you judge a strike goodbye? Everything what he's bringing to the... What do you judge a strike goodbye? Goals. But what I'm saying is up to this point, you know, scored and the goals he scored against. You're not at his performance level, are you? At the moment? Not really, no.

Were you bothered about yours if you scored goals?

Yeah.

You were bothered about your hold of play?

Link up play?

Yeah, you would.

Yeah, because as it went on, I realised how important it is to the link up.

If you lose the ball, you're... But if you're in your first season at a club, I've got to put the bond back in it. The link-up play will come the next year or two when I get used to my teammates around me. Yeah, but I did that at Arsenal.

I didn't have to worry about the link-up because I did score the goals.

You told me your first year, you were charged. Graham's giving out to you every day of the week.

You know what I mean?

What would you... Liam De Lappe, we all said at the start of the season we weren't sure how he would do, I think. He's got one goal in 17 appearances, obviously he was injured for a period as well, eight of them as a sub.

Sorry, I'm playing right wing.

Yeah, when he put up his right wing, that game against Arsenal, I was like, oh my God, that's never going to work. You're never going to score a goal while he's there. But you can maybe make it more difficult for Arsenal and they did that for a... His lack, he's got, at the moment, he's obviously lacking confidence

and he lacks real quality, doesn't he?

He came on in a game... Oh, God, was that Chelsea? He's only a young kid, you'd better give him the benefit of the doubt.

I thought there was a real handful in a game I watched and he came on. You're not lucky, Jay? No, to Chelsea. I just think young players, when they're on a journey getting better, this idea that the jump for me from Ipswich to Chelsea is too big, you need something in the middle. Playing centre forward for Everton every game, and no-one, even if you have a few bad games or you're injured, you're going to play again,

he's never sure if he's going to play a change, even if he starts... You are very good, you. Sometimes a jump is too big, you need that little bit in the middle. We're not writing the kid, he's only young.

It's been a miss, Chelsea.

It's a miss, isn't it, unfortunately.

Next one, Brian M. Bermo. At the start of the season, everyone said that he would be a hit. He's got nine Premier League goals, two assists, 21 games.

I think he's brilliant.

Yeah, he always looked dangerous.

I think João Pedro's a solid one. He's got the job to be, he's not as old as you think.

He's good.

It's the same with someone like Semenya. You see Semenya and you think to yourself, I could see him at hours, I could see him way more at hours as well. Just started.

Just sign everybody.

Just sign everyone. Football is brought to you by Armed Clothing. Okay, Sheshko, start of the season, Roy, Jill, Wright, it and Jamie said not sure. He scored six, is it six Premier League goals or is it seven now after last night?

Nice go, Pilot.

Look at Gary go.

How many goals? There's no word, we pray strikers now for that. When back in the day lads were getting 20, 20 goals.

That's what I said.

That thing about saying, like, ten goals and not getting happy with ten goals.

For someone who's passed 70 or 80 and take penalties.

I'd be disappointed if I didn't have that by the end of November.

How many goals has Sesco scored in the E-Bell, I need my voice recognition for this. He scored six, right. So, I'm going to say maybe.

Yeah, of course, he's a maybe at the moment.

There's a confusion for me in the sense that sometimes his performances look like he looks very scruffy when balls get played into him, but the two goals he scored against Fulham and last night, they're serious goals, Oles.

That goal last night's a serious goal. It's a beautiful goal, and I was saying it to Roy, but Roy's saying, oh, he's meant to score that.

No, Roy.

It's the way the boy came across, and he's just a little inferior, and he just guided it in.

That's one of the key things. Why do you only talk to Riedy about strikers? Go on then, tell me... You're like Ryanair. If a flight's on time, everyone's laughing and joking, but usually you're going to be two hours late. And then everyone thinks that's the norm.

Yeah, but we know that...

We... Oh, my God.

I'm flying on Ryanair, Nicola.

I flew with Ryanair, two hours late,

no-one was even arguing, goes,

this is what we expect. You've low expectations. No, the finish was good enough for you to notice. That's all it is. Yes, it is his job. Of course it is. But he made it look easy the way he done it.

It was a bloody good finish. You know when you land and they play the music?

And then they're like, SESCO UNITED! That's what you're supposed to do!

Do you get that?

Right, I'm going to object to that a little bit because nothing's doing right now. Go on, go on. But Sesco, right, that goal he scored last night, ordinarily, and we all watch a lot of football matches, I would see that goal scored one in 25 from that position ahead of the near post. I wouldn't see that taken, that chance, very often. It'd either be saved or he'd miss past the near post.

Because he guided it.

It wasn't like blasting. That's because you've got low expectations. He's a striker.

I've seen the goal.

I think it's a lovely finish. When you watch the way he done it, he done it purposely. Everyone's getting carried away because it was an equaliser in injury. But if you analyse it, you're going, yeah, that's what's... I thought it was an exceptional goal.

He could have done it every week. I mean, maybe. But he's still not in the United team, have they? I think he'll be a hit. I think he'll be a hit.

You think... No, now I'm...

Now he's in. He's not at the moment. He's not got six goals.

So maybe now.

Yocheres has a maybe and he's got eight goals. So of course he's going to be a maybe.

This one, start of season, Jamie weren't so sure. João Pedro scored 10 goals, 4 assists in 26 minutes. It's a hit. I think he's a hit. He's a hit.

I think he's very good.

You did it, girl.

What did you say?

Them two need to get themselves going a bit.

I said, well, maybe.

You said, basically, you weren't sure.

He weren't sure.

He is a hit.

It's okay. He's Erlingus. He's Erlingus. Jean-Pedro's Erlingus.

He's right. Just when he was gutted...

Sometimes you get things wrong in life.

We get it right, Joe.

Yeah, but sometimes it's how important these goals are.

Yeah. It's true.

Lads get goals that you're already two or three nil up. What were the big goals you got last night? Two on to leave. Now we're coming to Sesco's, come on. Chelsea are fifth, we're praising Chelsea already. Chelsea and United, expectations are so low. They'll celebrate getting in the top four or five.

Sesco's.

Sesco's last two have won three points, to be fair.

I'm not on about him.

I think it was a brilliant point for United last time. Of course you're going to say that, you're a cheerleader for them. You and Jim Ratcliffe, they draw at West Ham, it's amazing. That's my point, there's no pressure on this United team. Because they played badly last night, I didn't think they played well. Do you know something, last night I couldn't get... They were deeper last night than they should have been. The gaps were too big between the front and the back.

I thought they didn't pass it quickly enough out of the back. Last time I won six games, they draw at West Ham. And you're sitting there going, you thought it was a good draw, and that's fine. If you see that success, good luck to you. What did you think last night when they scored late on? You always think, you take it all day, get something out of the game. Yeah, I agree. That's what I thought.

But not to be all giddy.

Yeah, but you can see West Ham, you can see.

You just said, oh, good play. West Ham just got deeper and deeper. United team, there's no expectation at United. No expectation. Righty, do you know something? This team can't, imagine when they're under pressure and trying to win a league title, we see how good they are then. Just quickly, on West Ham last night, so right, seriously, forget Manchester United for one second.

West Ham last night, I was watching the game, you're there late on, you see the chance just before Cesco's, which is Xerxe's head as it goes past the post, right? And you watch those defenders drop to the edge of the six-yard box, and actually Xerxe's probably two or three yards away from them. Like, he's on the penalty spot.

He came into it.

How can... To me, that was the easiest thing I felt as a defender in the last part of a game. We literally would definitely shift up as far as we could there to leave that gap. I see so many teams drop that extra three or four yards and then the SESC goal goal and the Jerksie chance, that doesn't happen.

That could have lost you.

There was a point in the game, they got a corner, so I'm watching it obviously, desperate to West Ham, so I'm thinking this is the 90th minute, the seven added on, I thought it's too early to keep it in the corner, so you remember I think it was about 92 and they kept it short and then Mane and I together throw him. So you're thinking, lock them in as you would do man to man, you don't let them out. They throw it to the goalie and then the camera shot goes out you know so it's on the thrower, then it goes big, the camera shot and you just see all the West Ham players just running back, the ball's there, they just all run back to the edge of the fucking box I'm screaming at the top of my lungs. Where are you going? Fuck me now.

They just don't run on the fucking balls. They're so scared, they're just desperate to win.

West Ham should have gone 2-0 up though. That Callum Wilson change of pace, I was like, wow.

They should have gone 2-0 up.

Your all made two good challenges by the way in the last few minutes. Yeah, really good.

Two good blocks. I thought he'd left Callum Wilson. Isn't that what he meant to do, Roy? I don't know. But when he went, it was good timing.

We all have different expectations in life. Holidays, cars, partners. Everyone gets carried away with somebody doing something amazing.

Gary's changed.

Don't listen to me. But it shows good team morale and that, that they're getting them goals last minute to get a point. It's easier when you're chasing a game, girl. No, but I don't think Man United a few months ago

wouldn't have scored that goal.

It's the Carrick effect.

Would they have scored that goal a few months ago?

I don't think so.

The one thing that I, to be fair, become immensely frustrated with is nothing to do with the game last night, is that you see what would be a sort of quite mundane block or a clearance from a corner and there's four high fives from each player. That is fucking bollocks that. I'm sorry, excuse my language. I'm fuming. Liverpool on Saturday, I think it was Liverpool, was it City? It was City actually on Saturday. Donna Rummer to be fair has pulled them out of the mire a lot with punches. He's punched like nearly ten balls out for them. And I think, I can't remember who it was, did a flick on it at the back post and did something there, it was a good clearance, well done and they've got a corner

to defend and the high-fiving and you've got a corner to defend. If I've got a corner to defend I'm thinking we're in trouble here a little bit, we need to be on, you know, what's going to happen, we could concede a goal, you've got a corner to defend, that is not right. When Fulback... Do you know when a cross comes in and Fulback's on his own, you think he can clear it, but he gives a cheap corner away. And he turns around and he's like,

no-one's speaking to me, no-one's supposed to speak to you. You're supposed to be aware of what's going on, wouldn't you, if a player on the pitch was doing that talk to me? You should be aware of what's going on around you. The reason being is, to be fair, it's for the crowd. It's actually a good point.

It's all for the crowd, yeah.

No one taught me there was a man on it. That was Roy's point back in the day, because he used to say, if the crowd is singing, this angle, the goal is... and they kind of kick it out that way, it's actually easier, I know it might be on your weaker foot, just kick it that way I didn't know who was behind me Be aware who's behind you

I couldn't do it was it?

Watch all players do that, no one taught me

It's for the fans

That's for the fans. I have to make that decision, lads. I used to feel like some people that spoke on the football pitch were speaking more for them and their game sometimes. That can happen, Gill. It's like goalkeepers and stuff.

Keep me concentrated.

There's one thing, Gill. I've just said about talking is a bit of irrelevance on the football pitch, but it go quiet. Because if you go quiet as a defender... I should go quiet now. but it go quiet. Because if you go quiet as a defender... I should go quiet now.

LAUGHTER