Suspended Labour MP OBLITERATES Starmer | 'Angela Rayner Should Be Our PM'

We all know now, we had a really interesting chat before I went away about what you'd gone through and what happened to you. First up, genuinely, how are things with you?

How is life as an independent MP for Harleist? I've been liberated, Jeremy. It gives me the opportunity to ask the Speaker for an inquiry on the Prime Minister, for one example. I mean, look, I think the Prime Minister ought to be facing this inquiry. Why shouldn't he? I don't think he deliberately

misled Parliament, actually, because I know the guy. But I think there is a very big difference between what he said at Prime Minister's questions last week and what the evidence of Ollie Robbins was. And I think there is inconsistency enough to require an investigation of the Standards and Privileges Committee and that's what it should be doing. And it's quite interesting isn't it, in terms of that montage, I know it's slightly tongue in cheek from the Tories, but it's a very salient point.

You know, they, your party, X party, went on and on and on until Boris Johnson was hauled in front of that Privileges Committee. I had Dan Hodges from the Mail yesterday, Carl, saying he's got proof that he's lied seven times to the House of Commons and to the British public and he has to face the reality. But what's really interesting is the Labour MPs who were coming in, understandably I think, for a lot of stick this morning, they are being whipped and I've explained to people, know what that means you must vote that way if you don't presumably you'll be treated the way you were

treated. What does that say because if you've got nothing to hide why would you whip your MPs into how to vote? Well I think it smacks of desperation because the convention is not to whip matters of the house so if it's a procedural matter, the whip shouldn't apply. Now, I'm not saying this is a precedent, it's not. There's been lots of examples where MPs have been whipped to do what the Government need them to do on House matters. But in my view, it should have been a free vote. I just think it had been better off facing the committee. I think he would have cleared himself, to be honest. I genuinely do think he would have. But the

reality is they're looking for a contempt. And I don't think they'd have found something as clear as an actual deliberately misleading the House. But, you know, I think the stunt that they talk about, the government talk about, I think it is a stunt to an extent, and I'll tell you for why. I think the trick here is watching Labour MPs going into the division lobby to block an inquiry on the Prime Minister who presented the Labour Party and his government to the election,

or his would-be government to the election in 2024, as all the other than that. And I think people will find that very, very annoying. So if I was going in today with the intention of voting to block the inquiry, I'd expect to be inundated with emails saying what on earth have you done that for? And that's what I wanted to ask you because that's fascinating presumably you today will vote for the inquiry right? Absolutely categorically

yes. And what about your ex colleagues this is what I'm interested in apart from how do they treat you now you spurned or do they all go God you lucky man you're free of all of this. What's the feeling that you get? Well, I think people, there's a bit of sympathy for me amongst colleagues. I think the new intake in 2024 are a bit confused, they've probably hardly heard of me, many of them. And then they see that I'm opposed to jury trials and I'm fairly aggressive, if I'm honest, about my opposition

because I don't think any government should be doing it. If it was a Tory government I'd be saying the same things. What's terribly disappointing to me is that it's a Labour government, especially when the leader of the Labour Party, the Prime Minister, a human rights lawyer, campaigned between 1997 and, as understand it 2007 to do away with single judge trials in Northern Ireland, yet is now expecting people like me to vote and bring them into England and Wales. I think he's absolutely looted for us and fairly offensive to me anyway.

I completely agree and I've said before that the thing that you do, the thing that you do which, and please don't take this in any way because it's meant as a massive compliment, you remind me of the old-fashioned MP. You could listen to MPs of yesteryear whether you agreed with them or not but you could tell in their heart and their guts they believed in what they were saying. I'm sick to death of talking to politicians who won't open their mouths until somebody next to them has whispered in their ear what a focus group is telling them would be the right answer. You want conviction

politicians, people that make mistakes, but people who just genuinely believe in what they believe in. And with you, pal, I completely agree about the jury thing. Do you think your ex-colleagues will walk through like sheep and do what Starmer's whips tell them to do? Do you think any will walk in the opposite lobby and be punished? How do you see it going? I think we've got 404 Labour MPs. I think we've lost a few because I think we had 412 at the election but some of us are suspended for one reason or another. I think the very vast majority will go into the division

lobby and support the government in what is blocking, there's no easy way of putting this, it's blocking an inquiry into a member of the House of Commons. The member of the House of Commons just so happens to be the Prime Minister. That's the truth. He ought not to be treated differently to anybody else. His mandate is the same as my mandate. His constituents elected him to represent them as their MP. There should be special treatment in my view. Get on with it, face the music, answer the questions and find out what the committee decides.

I'll tell you something, there's an irony here, Jeremy, right? I'm tempted to say in the debate later today, this is not a single judge. This is not a crusty old man who's been, you know, publicly schooled, who's got a bit of an opinion on everything, this is a jury of lots of men and women who happen to be parliamentarians who are going to judge this impartially, listen to evidence and decide his fate. It ain't a judge who's got preconceived...

He doesn't like juries though does he Carl, there's your irony, I get it, he doesn't like juries though, does he, Karl? There's your irony, I get it. He doesn't like juries, does he?

Probably that's the reason.

That's the point, right?

Yeah.

So he's avoiding the jury of the House of Commons, when in fact this Labour government, tragically, is expecting people who are accused of very serious crimes to face a single judge, mostly men, mostly white, mostly privately educated, to decide the fate which would get them three years in custody. This ain't getting the Prime Minister prison, it's coming out with an answer, did you lie or didn't you lie?

Get on with it and face the music! Completely agree. Do You know what's really interesting, what you said as well before moving on, is when you said about how Labour MPs, if they blindly follow the whip and the rules and walk through, they're going to be inundated with emails. One of the biggest criticisms of this government, Carl, and I know you share this with me, is this seeming either complete disregard for the British people or what they think or I don't know we've got a large majority we know what's best for you. I've said this for months and it's not personal the silent majority feel very very strongly that this man has lied, misled, changed tack and doesn't has never had a real plan and is set out, there you

have it in the mail, stitch up to save his own skin. It's become about staying in power. When I saw him with Cathy Newman talking about, you know, transparency is important and it's really important that we get on with saving the country. Well, like I said just now, we've got no military, our borders are struggling under immense pressure because nobody can sort that out. We've got masses of new taxation, we've got a welfare bill, benefits bill that's going through the roof, we've got no police, there's crime you can shot lift. Everything seems to be collapsing.

The NHS and people go, oh well you can't blame it, the Tories. No, no, he's been in for two years with, in my opinion, very little plan. And today, here's the irony, and somebody said it earlier, Karl, today he should be worried about people's potholes, people's tax bills, people's crime, the safety of women. No, he sat bunker down in number 10 trying to save his own skin. And that does not go unchecked or unmissed by the British people. One million percent.

One million percent.

Well, I agree. unchecked or unmissed by the British people. One million percent. One million percent.

Well, I agree. I agree with you, actually. I do. And I think it smacks of this right look. It looks as if Labour MPs are clambering to save the bacon of a prime minister, which I think is unnecessary. And that's what the public areed against them. That's just the reality in my view. And I think it's a terrible mistake to be whipping MPs to block an inquiry of Parliament. It happened with Boris Johnson.

I think it was different, Jeremy, I'll tell you why. Because in the Boris Johnson scenario, I'm not going to talk about culpability, I'm talking about the fact that the public couldn't stand the situation. Why? Because they couldn't see the granny.

But this has got cut through as well in a different way. For the reasons that you've just stated, it's got cut through. The other thing is this, look, Ollie Robbins told the committee, the Foreign Affairs Committee last week, that there'd been questions about, could he have a job, could somebody get a job for Matt Doggle, right? Now that's not like me sending you a text message if I had your number, I've not got

it, but if I did, Jeremy, do us a favour, my kid's about to go to college, and she quite fancies a couple of days in a studio to learn the ropes, because you have a bit of experience for a CV. No it wasn't that Jeremy, this was will you give this discredited person from number 10 Downing Street a job as an ambassador for the country. It's unbelievable. And that guy we're talking about apparently denies knowing that they were asking for jobs for it. Mate, it's just, you look at it and you go, could it be any more, I

can't even, I'll use the wrong word, the second word show. I don't think, and I wasn't as close to what was going on at the end of the Tory reigns as I am now doing this, but to me the incompetence is unreal. Can I ask you, you touched upon it, today Foreign Affairs Select Committee, 9 o'clock with Dame Emily Thornberry, firstly Sir Philip Barton, former head of the Civil Service and the Foreign Office before Ollie Robbins,

who stuck the knife in last week, took over. He said he was under immense pressure to pass this despite vetting. Also then Morgan McSweeney, the man you were brave enough to say I don't believe you lost your phone. I mean, God knows you know what I think. You know what most people in this country think. Do you think very quickly, Carl, either of them will stick the knife into the Prime Minister or not? I doubt it, to be honest with you. I think there'll be evidence from the impartial witnesses which suggests that there

was pressure put on. Because I think there was pressure put on. I don't think there was pressure put on to sort of do a job on the vetting procedure, but I think there was an awful lot of pressure put on in terms of the speed and haste in which they required the vetting and the entire process to be completed.

Why? Because they wanted Mandelson in Washington in time for President Trump's inauguration. That was the reality. But why don't they just say that? Look, we wanted it doing fast. Yeah, we needed it fast.

We didn't ring them and say, look, we don't care what the vetting says, but we need it to be done really quickly, please. I don't think there's much wrong with that. Although to be honest with you, if you contacted a judge and said, get on with his sentencing hearing, you'd be erected within about 15 minutes of the phone call being made. You'll do for certain. You are a proper politician. There's one question at the end but I just want to ask you something.

This infuriates me as much as anything that's come out of the last two years. Last night MPs voted to continue the Troubles Bill into the next parliamentary session by 279 to 176, a majority of 103. This bill, people can talk to me, I will not change my mind. This says thank you so much indeed 30 years ago for donning a uniform for King at that point, Queen and country, for taking orders from your superiors who were sent to deal with the conflict in Northern Ireland by the

elected government of the day. But whilst you're sitting in your care home with potentially a terribly minimal pension for what you've done, just wait for the knock on the door because we might well prosecute you for what you've done whilst at the same moment giving immunity to the IRA. We talk about, Carl Turner, right, the silent majority. This, this is going to be far more important than I think anybody realises This is disgusting, utterly disgusting, in my opinion.

Listen, my area, Jeremy, is a very, very big area for recruitment into the military. Kids who leave school decide they want a career in the military because they want to do something for the country. They might not have performed terribly well at school or

college but they tend to join. That's what happens in Eastall, right? Working-class area. And for me, frankly, this is upsetting. It really truly is. I've made my point privately. I abstained last night, if I'm honest with you. I didn't go and vote against. It was a roll over. It's a procedure of the House, right? You're voting to say you don't want this to be included in the debates after the King's speech. There's a bit of a procedural fudge about it. That's why I just said I'm not going to bother to go and vote, right,

last night. But what you ought to be looking at, if you don't mind me mentioning, we have 400 and I think 304 MPs now. The vote was I think 279. So an awful lot of people said I'm not doing that. I'm not doing that. And that's the problem the government have got. It's running, Jeremy, on half a tank. MPs should be there enthusiastically, supporting the government. What? Two years in? Two years in and you've got 100-and-odd MPs who were only elected in 2024,

and half of which last night... I'm not going to crush the numbers, but if I looked at it, you'd see that half of them haven't bothered to turn up.

Neither did the Armed Forces Minister, who to be on way on buses Al Kahn, who's of course ex-military. Carl, you're amazing, we love having you on. Final question, if Starmer does eventually go, maybe after the locals or up until the party conference, million dollar question, who's likely to become the next Labour Prime Minister of this country in your mind?

Well look, people have got to get a grip of what's going on, Jeremy, in Parliament. The reality is this, look. The one Andy Burnham, I think, the biggest number of people fancy Andy Burnham as the leader of the Labour Party. That is just a fact, right? He's not in Parliament. How's he going to get in Parliament? Keir Starmer's not going to let him in. Not a chance. In terms of you as a Labour supporter and the party you've believed in, if it's not

Keir Starmer and you were still in the party, who would you want to be the next leader?

Out of the people who've been talked about, I forgive your last caller, I hope your last caller forgives me, but I'd have Angie Rayner every day of the week and twice on a Sunday, frankly. Why? Because she's normal. She's down to earth. You know, she's got a problem with the tax stuff, the HMIC and the stamp duty issue, but I think that's going to be resolved any time. Although, to be honest, I genuinely haven't spoke to Angie Rayner about the thing. She's never spoke, I don't think she speaks to people about it. A lot of people talk about her wanting to be the leader and PM, but she doesn't have conversations that I'm aware of. If she is,

she ain't speaking to me and I'm a pal of hers. But I think Angie Rayner, because she's normal, right? She's not robotic. She doesn't read the Parliamentary Labour Party brief and repeat word for word what's said on the briefing. She might be smoking a vape in a dinghy or a canoe or something there. Fine on that caption. Fine. She's a normal person, Jeremy. People are sick to death of people just reading it. What's it say? It says I've got to say this. Oh right, that'll go down well.

Because it never does. Constituents get in touch with you and say why don't you say what you think? Well I tell you what I say because I will continue to blow smoke because I think you're one of the best that I've ever had on this show and I'll because I think you're one of the best that I've ever had on this show and I'll tell you how much how much I respect you. If you were in my constituency I wouldn't give a toss what party you stood for, I'd vote for you because you're a proper, proper man.